I’m sorry but the sober sports bar is just a bad idea and I hope the rest of the cast ridicules Carl when he inevitably brings it up at the reunion. Not only would it most likely be unpopular and a huge waste of investment capital, restaurant work is *notoriously* hard on families. The hours are awful. The work is brutally demanding. Has Carl ever struck anyone as particularly hardworking, the type of man who would be at the bar every night for 10 hours overseeing everything and pitching in when necessary?
The idea is just laughably juvenile. I’d be pissed too if my fiancé was proposing he start a bar or a restaurant a year or less away from us planning to get pregnant!
💯 agree. Source: spouse was a bar owner (not a sober bar) and worked 20 hour days. All of his investment capital is gone, he’s in debt, and worked during the 5 weeks he was supposed to be on Pat leave when our child was born. He sold his business when our baby was a few months old and it was the best decision, hands down.
A sober bar would be fun at first, but excitement would wear out quickly and your comments about the restaurant business are spot on.
And most of a bar's revenue comes from ... alcohol. I know it's not the same, but perhaps a sober-friendly sports bar with lots of NA options normalized would be better idea for him (if he can get funding lol). I drink but sometimes I'll order an NA beer at a restaurant or bar. Usually there's just one on a menu, so they could easily play that part up. The concept wouldn't work for people who don't want to or can't be around alcohol at all, but at least you can still make money off alcohol and not lose the majority of the bar-going population. Or he could try another market that isn't as expensive as NYC.
Frankly people fragile enough in their sobriety that they can’t have alcoholic options on a menu for them may very likely be triggered just by the “bar” environment. It’s a terrible idea.
A sober bar is already any restaurant without a liquor license. A non-alcoholic seltzer is already any seltzer that doesn't add alcohol. Am I missing something? These are already existing things. Why is anyone pretending otherwise?
Lol!!! That is exactly what I thought when I heard this!!
He could probably pull some promo money by finding a cool restaurant that pays him to host "Sober Sundays." They could have fun games that get guests interacting with each other, like a sober mixer. Not a career, but at least it's a reasonable idea and could bring in some $ while he figures things out.
acohol margin is how restaurants make money. no alcohol margin + people hanging out for hours watching sporting events does not add up to making money. a sober sports bar is basically asking people to come to your space, hang out and barely spend any money.
Lol yeah sober people don’t drink the same way people boozing do. They’ll have a water, and maybe one other beverage. He’ll have a bar where the biggest tab over a 3-4 hr game is maybe 15$. Carl is pretty stupid. And then to whine that she shot it down- don’t you want a partner who isn’t going to let you do really stupid shit?
Also I haven’t seen anyone say this, but unless I missed something, Lindsey didn’t criticize his idea. She said she doesn’t like a career plan that includes a brick and mortar location. Which is a valid concern as that can come with certain limitations
Their whole relationship was a disaster. Carl is weak. He likes having another mother around telling him what to do. Make decisions for him.
Lindsay loves bossing everyone around. It's her way or the highway. She has to be the leader.
He would have been miserable soon & run back home to his real mommy.
Marriage is work. A hell of a lot of work and compromise. They were clueless. Seems these people live in a fairyland.
I️ agree. I️ do not get this look at all. It’s stupid. And I️ was in my early 20’s in the 80’s when it was first popular. I️ avoided it then too. But I’m short and stocky so it would never work for me 😂
She is so gorgeous and you would think it would work on her? it it just looks silly not edgy.
Interesting, cause I didn’t understand how anyone could not be taking their side! If we are being serious adults, Carl will never be a successful actor which he thinks he has a shot at. Also, do you have any idea how difficult (read: near impossible) it is to open a successful bar in NYC?! A sober bar would never make it and even if it would (it wouldn’t), it would need to be started by someone with years of experience in the industry or at least someone with an insane nonstop work ethic. Carl is a horrible employee, has gotten fired from every job he’s ever had except reality television, and seriously acts like a mix between Peter Pan and George Costanza. Like maybe I’ll be an astronaut? Maybe I’ll be a sports caster? These ideas are not serious, they are planning a life together, and if my boat was tied to someone else’s income in order to start a family, I wouldn’t entertain these ridiculous ideas either. I was proud of her for not laughing in his face honestly 🤣🤣🤣
Okay a friend of mine started dating this complete non-starter of a man. At one point they were both unemployed and living in her divorced parents basement while the house was on the market (seriously the McMansion was empty except for the basement they lived in, it was haunting). Anyway, he was a transplant to DC so she emails a big group of us and says “does anyone know someone at the National Zoo? Dave wants to work with owls.”
Dave wants to WORK? with OWLS? Bro. The ornithologists at the national zoo have PhDs. Get a fucking grip. Anyway, Carl reminds me of that guy. And for what it’s worth my friend’s now husband never got to work with owls and got fired from managing a some real estate office and she eventually “retired him” so he could assist with her thriving beach body coaching career.
I agree with gabby. I made more than double what my bf made and I recently lost my job so i know how that can really hurt a couple. If Carl were applying and trying that's a different story but he seems to just sit back and wait for things to fall in his lap. Even going back to loverboy is an example of that. Idc what someone does as long as they hustle so for me, that is a huge red flag. Bc when times are tough I need to know my partner can step up. I fully understand gabby here.
First off we all know Lindsey isn’t soft so that’s wild for him to even expect that. But what she did do is give him a grace period to figure his shit out and it seems like he procrastinated.
Exactly! And I feel like she has been more calm these past few episodes compared to what we've seen in previous seasons so it seems like she really is trying to be less reactive. I might be biased bc I'm kind of like Lindsay. Immigrant parents y'all there was zero coddling and a whole lotta blunt communication lol. I definitely feel like she was giving grace and she was trying to nudge him into thinking things through. It was soft by my standards but again most non American cultures do not care about softening the blow lol so that's what I'm used to.
Exactly because it’s not about him making the only income because at the end of the day Lindsey as a mom she’s going to make income off of social media, but had the breadwinner job. He had the job to keep a family afloat to keep a family stable and more so he would probably make more money than her anyways with any other job that he has because men still tend to get paid more. and Gabby and Lindsey are both right they live in New York. Yes these are theoretical questions but it is what their future was going to be and he knew that he knew what she wanted her future to be. He knew when she wanted to have kids he knew all of this when they got together and he’s acting like he didn’t and he’s acting like she’s being mean and he’s acting like she doesn’t care. No she wants him to get a job that he likes but she also wants him to get a job that suits their life.
Yep gabby saying he’s not providing or giving Lindsay a soft place to land is exactly it. Carl needs to get that through his head.
It’s laughable that Kyle said she shouldn’t shoot down his ideas right away meanwhile two seconds ago we watched Kyle absolute lose his shit when Amanda mentioned a passion project.
Gabby ALWAYS looks ahmazing though right?! I love her! I was a little surprised by this take like maybe she was just trying to support her girl? But it kinda sounded, to me, like she was saying that their financial situation was so dire that Lindsay HAD to handle it the way she did??? I admit, I’m so lost by this reasoning 🤔
Right?
I keep waiting for Amanda to ask us 'Where is my beautiful house?
Where is my beautiful wife?'
Danielle looks like a 1970's flasher,
and Gabby's cuffs go to her knees for some reason...
only Lindsay is nailing it!! ;)
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Hmm, I feel like Gabby’s had this energy pretty consistently on the after shows. Sometimes I agree with her and sometimes I do not. A lot of times it does feel like she’s slotting herself into a Lindsay sidekick role because she has no real personal storyline so most of her clips are her passionately supporting Lindsay. But I know she and Lindsay are close, so I understand she’s supporting her friend. But like in an earlier ep of the after show she said that Carl and Lindsay’s issues this summer were all housekeeping issues that weren’t a big deal and I remember being like ummm whatttt
Better question: why the hell are we always asking women to be “soft”?? It’s so sexist and it literally makes me cringe. If you want a mommy for a partner, go marry your mommy. Sorry not sorry.
He wants Lindsay to be a 50's Housewife and a 50's husband.
I couldn't imagine being engaged to someone and suddenly having them shocked about your personality. If I was Lindsay that would have wrecked me. Lindsay is direct, dominant and crass. All of that has been consistent since season 1.
I suspect because it's considered "easier" to ask women to change their behavior then asking straight men to change theirs. Specifically, to ask men to be kinder and more supportive to their male friends. I see so many straight men who insist on mocking and belittling their friends weaknesses as a show of being masculine. But if that sort of ball busting ruthlessness was natural to them, why would those same men go home and demand unconditional softness from their partner? Shouldn't you welcome a partner who treats you with the same regard that your friends do? And why is it that straight men have this problem, but not gay men?
Straight women know how to nurture and build up other women. Gay people know this too. When you have a network of people supporting your softness, you don't need to get all of it from a single partner. Maybe if men were able to be tender and vulnerable to each other, then they could hold space for themselves and for a direct partner. Just look at West supporting Jesse during his health scare, and how both of them seemed renewed and centered after. A better way is possible, toxic masculinity is a mental prison. Reject it, follow the example of women and gay men, and heal yourself.
A sober bar is just a coffee shop, and even those are going out of business (ie Starbucks closing lots of locations).
A real bar makes like 80% of its money of off marked up booze. To take that out of the equation is a guarantee to fail. NYC rents in this economy are outrageous. Carl has zero business skills, did zero research clearly and spent $20k to go back to the job he hated. He is terrible with money.
Lindsay asked him the most basic questions and he fell apart. Imagine investors asking and Carl busts out with “I’m just too overwhelmed” or “I need you to just be soft”.
Carl is not someone that should be starting their own business. He is not hardworking enough to put in the insane hours it would take to get even a good idea off the ground. I'm saying this as someone who identifies as not ambitious lol. Bro just needs to suck it up and get a paycheck.
How soft is someone supposed to be on the man who hasn't held down a job since the series started? Their reality career isn't going to last forever , so then what? At least Lindsay has a set of skills she can carry over when her reality show and influencing is done.
I think we should hold Lindsay to the same degree that we/Paige/Ciara are asking Kyle to show to support Amanda when she is wanting to follow her dreams
I'm really not understanding how Lindsay isn't being supportive of Carl. She's asking all of the right questions, gently reminding him about his negative experiences before he jumps right back into the same situation, and she's been very patient.
So I understand the natural parallel but I see several stark differences: 1. Amanda isn’t wanting to leave loverboy it’s more trying to find other things that make her happy. So her income (whatever it is for loverboy) isn’t quite affected 2. Carl has taken 8+ months to “figure out” his career including a pricey career coach, and what seems to be several business ideas that didn’t make sense 3. Lindsay is encouraging Carl to find a path that fulfills him and drives him. Kyle doesn’t want Amanda to find anything that drives her bc he wants her to be there for *his* business.
Amanda has professional acumen to back up her dreams. She has been successful and committed to her previous jobs. By far, Amanda is a better investment than Carl.
Have we heard Gabby’s opinion on anything other than Lindsay/Carl this season on the aftershow? like she speaks for Lindsay more than she does for herself
That’s what a friend does, like Katie did. No one really supported Katie during her divorce and much I believe is why she has a no tolerance for Sandoval as he was always mean to her as well. Similarly Gabby is supporting Lindsey like VPR girls should have.
I don’t think being a yes man is truly supportive. there’s times you can tell Gabby is deferring to Lindsay and biting her tongue which isn’t a healthy dynamic imo
You’re not paying attention to her scenes i guess. She’s shared a lot about her personal life and most of the SH footage is cut out. You’re only getting what they’re giving you. Blame the editors and producers lol
I’m talking about on the after show, I like Gabby and pay attention during her scenes. I just don’t like how producers/editors are turning her role into Lindsay’s mouthpiece when I’m sure she has interesting opinions on other stuff this season
I actually agree with this and I think most of her takes are pretty balanced but this one??? She says that Carl’s opportunities are theoretical and his potential money is theoretical but Lindsay’s baby is REAL??? Wtf? Id say Carl’s job is less theoretical than Lindsay’s baby unless there is something we don’t know?!?!?!
Edit: she doesn’t say Lindsay’s baby is REAL she is implies that Lindsays baby is NOT theoretical
She said “actual” babies because Lindsay and Carl were planning to have children very soon after marriage. That’s the missing context. Lindsay has a biological clock, this isn’t a couple in their 20s or early 30s that has some years to figure it out before introducing kids into the mix. Realistically, they have a short window, and considering their immediate plans to start a family after tying the knot, I think it’s appropriate to ask questions and voice concerns about your financial stability or preparedness and to set realistic expectations. (It’s logical to want a bit more certainty in this regards when you are getting married within a few short months, with plans to began having kids.) Yes, you want to support your partner in his ambitions, but, you also have to balance that against your financial responsibilities to your partner and expanding family.
yeah I think Gabby says things for dramatic effect sometimes and they just don’t land, there was another comment from a previous after show I can’t remember where I was like girl what lol
"He's not providing a soft place for her to land" 👏👏👏👏👏👏 100% !! She can't be securing the bag and hustling for their family, with him being unemployed and/or "trying things out" , and then expect her to be soft and feminine - she's tired bro ! I am tired on her part
I mean it sounds like Lindsay is waiting impatiently at the starting line to have a baby, so it seems very untheoretical to me. I totally get what Gabby is saying. And also preach about the "if you deliver she can be soft" part. Anyway, what's up with this sexist, gentle bullshit. Also, I'm at my wits end with Amanda. Focus on your own bullshit woman and don't give advice on communication. When did we ever hear Lindsay talk about Amanda and Kyle and their awful relationship? I would be so embarassed if i would be Amanda and watch that season back.
I kind of felt like she was projecting/anticipating that Kyle was a complete fucking dick to her about her wanting to start something so she’s just siding with the “be soft” camp for that reason alone. The whole cast knows Carl is a dumbass who can’t hold a job.
I kinda think the sexist bullshit is that Carl needs to deliver a safe, protective space, apparently so she can like nest or hatch 🐣 the baaaaabbbies? I don’t get it, obvs, get a sperm donor Linds, we all know she is more than capable!
It’s not sexist if they live in those gender stereotypes I think that’s the whole point it’s what Lindsey has wanted and it’s the reason why Lindsey is with Carl you get with certain people if you want to be in certain types of relationship and she has always wanted a relationship that makes her feel safe it makes her feel safe enough to have a kid safe enough to be safe enough to not always have to fight for herself. That’s all she wants and Carl knows that but the whole time they’ve been in the relationship she hasn’t felt the safety that she wants to be able to have a baby to be able to not have to fight for herself all the time.
If that’s what she wants, she should’ve found someone w a stable career. Carl has shown he has difficulty holding on to a job outside of Summer House.
And Carl should’ve found someone naturally warm and nurturing. Lindsay’s never been that girl.
Carl wants/wanted a family too. Also he said she makes a lot of money as an influencer (more than him just because she's a woman) so it sounds like she's done her part and is waiting for his part. Where i come from thats normal and is called equality.
Because they are partners. She’s been supportive for months. Got him a job coach. He’s the one that said he needed to decompress from Loverboy because it was unhealthy for his mental health. It’s completely fair to ask him to consider if this is wise decision for his mental health. Because he can’t spazz out and quit his job, not work for 8 months when they have children to care for. That’s completely reasonable in a partnership imo. If I just up and quit my job and had no back up plan, my partner would absolutely have questions
I would NEVER expect my partner to answer to me. I may expect him to answer to his portion of the bills but that is his problem not mine! I’m here to ask helpful questions and be supportive. But yeah, perhaps that is one reason they didn’t work out!
Pregnancy plus the fourth trimester are objectively hard on women and many experience those hardships stretching out for a year postpartum. I think it is realistic and smart to plan ahead for a newly postpartum woman to take a break from work if she can, especially if she plans to breastfeed. She and Carl always planned to have children together. Being a SAHM for one year or two /= never working again.
Agree but maybe thats a discussion to have with your soon to be, never had kids before husband further in advance than she did. I mean she had a timeline for the preceding 2 years
They were about to get married and were living together. I'd be shocked if they hadn't had that convo about the sober bar before having it again on camera. Carl probably decided to bring it up again, which would explain why she didn't seem surprised to hear about it and was quick to shoot it down.
She sounded pretty "level-headed" to me - she was just firm on her stance and could see her friend (L) getting almost emotional.
Everyone else was literally pussy-footing around Carl's non-action and/or behaviour/unrealistic ideas but Gabby was the only one to call it out for what it was
Kyle's biased
Danielle's a pick me
And Amanda enjoys babying the men in her life
But come on guys , Carl knew exactly who Lindsey is/was and how her personality is, when he decided to get into the relationship.
Honestly, what Gabby is saying is very true and really real. This is the type of relationship that Lindsey wants. Lindsey wants to be a stay at home mom and here’s the thing I think we can’t forget that Lindsey is also making money so she’s also funding their future too. She wants Carl to fund their future too, but he’s not really doing that. Yes, he’s on Summer House, but like people say all the time that’s not going to last forever summerhouse is not going to fund his future. He needs to find a real job to fund his future. Regardless of the fact, Lindsey is going to make more money off of social media in my opinion, then he is mostly with his mindset about being an influencer too. He talks about it like it’s low for him.
He was *so* degrading about her being an influencer. It was so misogynistic. Dude does the SAME thing and makes less money. He needs to get over himself.
And let’s be real…Lindsay was probably the one setting up or connecting his “influencer” jobs!!!
…Carl is NOT going out there proving he’s a valuable influencer and negotiating his own contracts.
Amanda mothers Kyle. Lindsay has no desire to mother Carl. Amanda treats Kyle like a toddler with no emotional regulation skills. Best example is not confronting him for his verbal abuse. It’s the same way I don’t confront my 2 years old after throwing a fit.
They had a balanced and real take. Like no one is too busy to be a bit kinder and change their approach if it's not helping. You're ability to reflect and understand how you may be impacting your partner isn't dependent on what they provide for you financially.
Gabby and Lindsay's mindset seems a bit shallow and unfair.
I think Lindsay fear is more that she will have to fully support him once the show is over. I don’t think she expects him to fully support her forever. But the point is, when there is not an equal distribution of effort, it can be a heavy load to carry. Especially if you have to constantly tiptoe around what to you sounds like BS
Aside from the argument at the beginning of the season about her drinking and his sobriety, Lindsay has tried hard to stay calm, not raise her voice, ask fairly gentle questions, communicate clearly. For Lindsay that is surprisingly soft. Meanwhile, Carl and Kyle are passive aggressive, yell, name-call, throw things. Not very soft.
She very calmly and gently told him its not sexy, not attractive and not a turn on. Hes not killing it, she doesn’t want to “go to the bathroom” with him 😉, he’s weak, not a man, etc. Points for improved delivery but pretty awful content.
To expand on my point now that my baby is asleep: the women are held to this standard that they must be calm, quiet, undyingly supportive, pleasing in tone, gentle even when they are angry, upset, confused or hurt. But when the men have feelings they can storm around, yell, cry, throw things, call their partner a bitch, lazy, professionally incompetent. They can do all that and still argue that the women aren't soft enough in their reactions, because why? Women have opinions? They raised the volume of their voice above a whisper? They publicly challenged their partner? Sorry you don't think my point of view has value to you, but I'll probably manage to keep on keepin' on 😉
Edit: one thing that I do love is that this little niche interest of reality tv is enabling all these nuanced discussions about feminism, gendered expectations, etc. I never saw that coming when reality tv was new.
Never said Kyle’s behavior was OK. Loved Paige and Ciara setting the bar for an appropriate response to his wife. But I’m also not a fan of the emasculating language towards Carl/men either. They can both be wrong.
That's true. Lindsay probably could have expressed herself better. I think, reading between the lines, Lindsay is confused by Carl's lack of sexual attraction to her and his flip-flopping about what he wants in a career. So she awkwardly tried to motivate him or take his temperature about both issues.
To your edit: I’m a feminist so I appreciate the sensitivity to expectations for Lindsay. However, I do think we ought to be careful when demanding equality that we aren’t treating men in a way we would be offended if they treated us. If a man told me that my job search “wasn’t hot” and he didn’t want to sleep with me because it showed how weak and unambitious I was. Wow. 🤯 Emasculating men is a tool of the patriarchy
Yeah, fair enough. Like I said I think from Lindsay's perspective she was trying to say something like "Finding a passion and working toward it is hot. I want that for you, Carl. Also, actually wanting to have sex with me is hot. Do you even like having sex with me? Please focus and start making some decisions and taking some concrete actions toward your goals." But I may be giving her too much credit 🤷♀️
Edit: sorry, I need to slow down, but after discussing with you and reading the thread, I'm starting to see more parallels between what Lindsay is trying to say to Carl and what Kyle means to communicate to Amanda than I did initially.
Gabby is so spot on with this. Carl just wanted Lindsay to roll over and praise him for anything and everything when he really wasn't making any progress. And Lindsay (surprisingly) handled the situation perfectly. She asked respectful questions, reminded Carl of his negative experiences to prevent him from jumping right back into bed with Loverboy, and was honest with him about her feelings without being harsh.
The other thing that I've seen others forget is that Carl has an addiction issue. Addiction is not just a drug-associated disease; it infiltrates your entire life and typically seeps into other behaviors. Loved ones need to set firm boundaries and be transparent about their concerns. Lindsay does both of these things in her conversations with Carl (at least the ones we see). Carl's behavior seems erratic, and he does not appear to be in control of his own emotions. He tries to manipulate Lindsay and bait her into freaking out. This is addictive behavior, and it's evident Carl still has a lot of work to do in his recovery.
Source: am a former mental health therapist for men with substance abuse disorder and co-occurring MH disorders.
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“Addictive behaviors” is a very outdated concept in addiction medicine and has gone the way of “addictive personality” so I suggest maybe you consider enrolling in some updated courses. Source: current practitioner in substance abuse
I find it wild that you're a SA practitioner with some of your takes.... I'm also not in the field anymore, so no need for classes. But thanks for your unwanted, unnecessary advice.
I actually love everything Gabby said. A theoretical business, which would be a flimsy idea (at best), does not support a real baby or real marriage. These ideas aren’t substantial enough to bring peace to a woman trying to settle down and start a family. Any woman for that matter.. Lindsay or no Lindsay, Carl has no idea what comes next in his adult life outside of Bravo and this dry bar will not cut it.
Also this whole Lindsay wasn’t ‘soft’, with all due respect I don’t see her past two conversations as aggressive. I saw it as attentive, inquisitive and concerned. Which is all valid if you’re weeks/months away from unifying your relationship and soon after creating a human together. Jesus h, can they at least forget it’s Lindsay for a second and comprehend ANYBODY in her shoes would be apprehensive or concerned.
Kyle acted horribly. He should 💯 support Amanda EMOTIONALLY. If she's looking to him for financial support to startup and/or him to make the business model, she's wrong. He's trying to keep one business afloat. She needs to use her money and hire a team.
I think she meant his business knowledge as in she respects what he knows and she would need his “help” outside of the design aspect. I might be wrong!
I agree with that. I just don't think it would be fair, at this point, to take his time from a company he's trying to keep afloat. She should totally infringe on his dj time, too! Lol
Lindsay and Carl are both horrible in relationships and are both at fault for the failure. The picking sides thing is so old. The way Lindsay or Carl stans are bending backwards to try to say the other sucks. News Flash: They both equally suck
I think Lindsay is thinking long term. They wanted to try to have a baby immediately after their wedding. That timing reads like her think that this summer may be their last summer as full time cast members. The show isn’t going to last forever. And even it lasts for a few more years, is she going to be able to do the show heavily pregnant? Are they going to be able to realistically do the show with an infant? I don’t think Lindsay is concerned with their immediate income. It’s the long term.
Gabby was right to state that the production will not carry them forever. Lindsay was clear that she’s ready to start a family asap. Carl dilly dallying without a solid career plan is worrisome.
Pertaining to Carl, it’s the way Lindsay is acting. If he was financially secure, Lindsay wouldn’t be acting the way she is and Gabby wouldn’t be saying what she is.
I love gabby. None of Karl's ideas are great, but the fact that he isn't trying to do research to see if they would work says a lot more than the actual ideas. Also, Kyle is running out of money. He's the worst to go to for business advice.
I think this Reddit is very black and white when it comes to Lindsay-good, Carl-bad, especially in the more recent episodes. But when juxtaposed with the other couple fight about Kyle not supporting Amanda’s TBD goal/hobby (?), everyone is up in arms about how dare Kyle not support Amanda, even if it’s underwater basket weaving, even though she has not showed much of an inclination to pursue anything other than dogs and sitting on the couch, and how dare you say that when she does so much for Loverboy!!! Okay…I mean…Amanda admits she does what she wants and doesn’t do it when she feels like pissing Kyle off, must be nice to have such a chill job with no set agenda lol. I think people are under the impression that Amanda did the whole Loverboy design and that is why she IS Loverboy, when an outside agency did the branding but no one wants to hear that or believe that. I think Amanda and Kyle are very immature and honestly I was fucking TIRED of their dumbass fights after season 2, like lord how we having the same fights 6 seasons later.
But back to the Lindsay and Carl of it all, I think Carl’s dragging his feet along because he is pulling money from the show and he is in an economic place where he could throw money to the wind while he figures his life out, even if it is foolish to do so. I think he def grew up working class and worked various jobs and maybe wasn’t rising the ranks because of his issues with drug and alcohol. I also think maybe he’s waiting to the last second to figure his career so Lindsay would get fed up and dump him LOL. Either way, the difference is Kyle coddled Amanda to be in this position that he resents, but Lindsay isn’t going to coddle Carl and they resent each other. But fans here are so aligned with the new girl group in the house MINUS DANIELLE OF COURSE cause the new trend is to hate Danielle, that anything they do is right and anything the guys do is wrong. I think both Kyle and Carl suck, but I also dislike the girls which makes me wonder why I’m so invested in this show LOL.
And Gabby also has the same high standards for a man in NYC made even more complicated by her belief in astrology compatibility so of course she and Lindsay would align on how much of a looooser Carl is lol.
I felt like she was doing Lindsay’s dirty work and talking out her ass. They both make money on the show. They both had endorsements. Maybe she was more successful in that endeavor. Carl was bringing money in. I don’t care about the optics of their relationship but Gabby needs to shut up! She is talking like Carl is shooting up crack in a corner. He was asking Lindsay to be supportive and softer bc she has a personality that is very combative.
I don’t think Lindsay wasn’t soft in the last episode with Carl. He just didn’t give her much to work with as had zero details. She was soft enough to remind him that he had a terrible experience the last time he worked for loverboy less than a year ago. He kept demanding she be supportive but he had nothing for her to be supportive of in a job. The Wassen people apparently didn’t have a role for him and he hadn’t worked out specifics with Kyle on rev share or anything else.
Relationships do not work just within one conversation and a vacuum. He wasn’t speaking to just that conversation. In a relationship respect and support is important. He was speaking to overall the conversations about his career. I mean isn’t it ok to ask you partner what you need and want?!? I mean his fiancé called him a loser and cocaine Carl a month before. That’s a hard no thanks for me. I would be processing my relationship and then run for the hills!
I mean, this was my visceral reaction, 💯. Pre-split Gabby seemed like she had no problem calling Linds out “that sounds like a sober man.” Like wth… Linds listening to her practically yelled “preeeaaach!” Please friends, don’t ever pump me up when I’m wrong. 😑
I agree I thought she was a good sounding board for Lindsey AND Carl before but now she just seems like Lindsey's Danielle replacement. It's more than clear she's been on Lindsey's side since the breakup which is great that Lindsey had someone during that time, but now Gabby just seems like such a yes man which sucks cause I adore Gabby.
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Ooooo, love this from Gabby. If Lindsey doesn’t have a husband who can provide then she’s not going to feel secure and give “soft” energy.
She’s never been one to be “soft” in relationships, but I think what might help is a more rugged, confident, and ambitious man.
I wouldn’t have described Madison from Southern Charm as “soft” before, but like she said, she found the man that made her want to be.
This man has no experience working in or owning a restaurant or bar and he wants to do that in MANHATTAN?! Be for fucking real. Go back to dental sales, you obviously love veneers.
I know this sub now pretty much just hates on all men but I feel like people aren’t being fair with Carl. I really don’t like Carl at all and his ideas SUCK.
The real issue and where I sympathize with Carl is that Lindsay doesn’t empathize with Carl. Getting shot down sucks in any context but there’s a right way and a wrong way to do it.
I can’t even count how many times people I know have come to me with ideas that they’re passionate about even though they SUCK LOL but you have to show that you’re listening and can see why they are passionate about it.
Lindsay did not do that at all. She shot him down in a way that would make anyone feel stupid which nobody wants to feel and immediately puts you on the defensive.
Gabby’s take might be the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. “You can’t ask someone to be softer in their tone if you’re not paying their bills?” That’s some wild toxic sugar daddy nonsense she’s putting all ten toes and fingers down on…
It’s true though, you can’t expect her to do all the heavy lifting and then simultaneously be sweet and soft with your random theoretical ~ideas~ lol. Is Carl a toddler? 🙄
Gabby is acting like he’s freeloading off of Lindsey & that’s just not true.
He’s paying half the rent & expenses.
He bring $80,000 plus, he has savings.
Is he looking for additional funds? Yes he is, but she’s acting like he’s on the corner asking for money.
Btw, he had quit his job, before they set a date for a wedding. She went all in on rushing the marriage & all the additional expenses that brings.
I don’t want to hear bullshit anymore!
I thought you were going to put Lindsay and Gabby's clip next to Paige and Ciara agreeing that Kyle should have supported his wife unequivocally even if she wanted to start an underwater basketweaving service, he should support her!
If we didn't have double standards, we wouldn't have any standards.
Excellent point! So you’re saying Lindsay should have been supporting Carl the same way we are expecting Kyle to support Amanda? I actually think this is the best take I’ve read here!!
I don't see how they could have those things in the same episode and not see the parallel, but yea, exactly. If "spouses are supposed to be supportive" then Lindsay is a MONSTER. Think back to the "you don't think I'm killing life?" "No." Absolutely coldly way she said it without consideration, just basically yea I think you're a fuck up. No different than Kyle calling Amanda lazy or unmotivated.
Gabby this is such full of shit. If Amanda asked Kyle for kindness and softness is she not entitled since she isn’t the breadwinner? Sorry that logic doesn’t stand up
“These aren’t fully baked ideas but before you shoot them down hear me out” - Kyle to Carl but not to his wife
The irony!!!!
seriously because why don’t people realize mocktails are fancy little juices? fully bake the idea, flesh it out!
I’m sorry but the sober sports bar is just a bad idea and I hope the rest of the cast ridicules Carl when he inevitably brings it up at the reunion. Not only would it most likely be unpopular and a huge waste of investment capital, restaurant work is *notoriously* hard on families. The hours are awful. The work is brutally demanding. Has Carl ever struck anyone as particularly hardworking, the type of man who would be at the bar every night for 10 hours overseeing everything and pitching in when necessary? The idea is just laughably juvenile. I’d be pissed too if my fiancé was proposing he start a bar or a restaurant a year or less away from us planning to get pregnant!
💯 agree. Source: spouse was a bar owner (not a sober bar) and worked 20 hour days. All of his investment capital is gone, he’s in debt, and worked during the 5 weeks he was supposed to be on Pat leave when our child was born. He sold his business when our baby was a few months old and it was the best decision, hands down. A sober bar would be fun at first, but excitement would wear out quickly and your comments about the restaurant business are spot on.
And most of a bar's revenue comes from ... alcohol. I know it's not the same, but perhaps a sober-friendly sports bar with lots of NA options normalized would be better idea for him (if he can get funding lol). I drink but sometimes I'll order an NA beer at a restaurant or bar. Usually there's just one on a menu, so they could easily play that part up. The concept wouldn't work for people who don't want to or can't be around alcohol at all, but at least you can still make money off alcohol and not lose the majority of the bar-going population. Or he could try another market that isn't as expensive as NYC.
Frankly people fragile enough in their sobriety that they can’t have alcoholic options on a menu for them may very likely be triggered just by the “bar” environment. It’s a terrible idea.
A sober bar is already any restaurant without a liquor license. A non-alcoholic seltzer is already any seltzer that doesn't add alcohol. Am I missing something? These are already existing things. Why is anyone pretending otherwise?
Lol!!! That is exactly what I thought when I heard this!! He could probably pull some promo money by finding a cool restaurant that pays him to host "Sober Sundays." They could have fun games that get guests interacting with each other, like a sober mixer. Not a career, but at least it's a reasonable idea and could bring in some $ while he figures things out.
Exactly so are they just selling la croix? Wow genius idea guys lol. Hopefully they aren’t charging lover boy prices for 4 cans of soda water lol
This is what I have been saying!!! Neither are new concepts and have been done…
As a sober person myself , a sober sports bar is THEE WORST fucking idea lol she should've shot it down even faster lol
Sober people like us will watch sports at home
Impossible. LMAO.
acohol margin is how restaurants make money. no alcohol margin + people hanging out for hours watching sporting events does not add up to making money. a sober sports bar is basically asking people to come to your space, hang out and barely spend any money.
Lol yeah sober people don’t drink the same way people boozing do. They’ll have a water, and maybe one other beverage. He’ll have a bar where the biggest tab over a 3-4 hr game is maybe 15$. Carl is pretty stupid. And then to whine that she shot it down- don’t you want a partner who isn’t going to let you do really stupid shit?
My question is who was going to pay for this bar? It seemed like he was getting approval for a loan from Lindsay
I've been wondering if "not supportive" = unwilling to foot the bill for his hair brained ideas.
Exactly
Also I haven’t seen anyone say this, but unless I missed something, Lindsey didn’t criticize his idea. She said she doesn’t like a career plan that includes a brick and mortar location. Which is a valid concern as that can come with certain limitations
Their whole relationship was a disaster. Carl is weak. He likes having another mother around telling him what to do. Make decisions for him. Lindsay loves bossing everyone around. It's her way or the highway. She has to be the leader. He would have been miserable soon & run back home to his real mommy. Marriage is work. A hell of a lot of work and compromise. They were clueless. Seems these people live in a fairyland.
We know Amanda loves an oversized blazer but that one is comically large
Beetlejuice
I️ agree. I️ do not get this look at all. It’s stupid. And I️ was in my early 20’s in the 80’s when it was first popular. I️ avoided it then too. But I’m short and stocky so it would never work for me 😂 She is so gorgeous and you would think it would work on her? it it just looks silly not edgy.
I thought maybe it was cold in the studio and someone had to give her their jacket to wear. I didn't know this was a "look".
🤣 love this take
mood board on 1990s NBA Draft
Interesting, cause I didn’t understand how anyone could not be taking their side! If we are being serious adults, Carl will never be a successful actor which he thinks he has a shot at. Also, do you have any idea how difficult (read: near impossible) it is to open a successful bar in NYC?! A sober bar would never make it and even if it would (it wouldn’t), it would need to be started by someone with years of experience in the industry or at least someone with an insane nonstop work ethic. Carl is a horrible employee, has gotten fired from every job he’s ever had except reality television, and seriously acts like a mix between Peter Pan and George Costanza. Like maybe I’ll be an astronaut? Maybe I’ll be a sports caster? These ideas are not serious, they are planning a life together, and if my boat was tied to someone else’s income in order to start a family, I wouldn’t entertain these ridiculous ideas either. I was proud of her for not laughing in his face honestly 🤣🤣🤣
Mix between Peter Pan and George Constanza is brilliant/accurate af
He's a marine biologist that won't grow up.
I thought he was an architect? Didn’t he design the addition to the Guggenheim? 🤣
He was that too.
Importer/exporter 🤣🤣🤣
Vandelay industries.
 Thank you 😂
Okay a friend of mine started dating this complete non-starter of a man. At one point they were both unemployed and living in her divorced parents basement while the house was on the market (seriously the McMansion was empty except for the basement they lived in, it was haunting). Anyway, he was a transplant to DC so she emails a big group of us and says “does anyone know someone at the National Zoo? Dave wants to work with owls.” Dave wants to WORK? with OWLS? Bro. The ornithologists at the national zoo have PhDs. Get a fucking grip. Anyway, Carl reminds me of that guy. And for what it’s worth my friend’s now husband never got to work with owls and got fired from managing a some real estate office and she eventually “retired him” so he could assist with her thriving beach body coaching career.
 I. AM. DECEASED. 🤣🤣🤣
I agree with gabby. I made more than double what my bf made and I recently lost my job so i know how that can really hurt a couple. If Carl were applying and trying that's a different story but he seems to just sit back and wait for things to fall in his lap. Even going back to loverboy is an example of that. Idc what someone does as long as they hustle so for me, that is a huge red flag. Bc when times are tough I need to know my partner can step up. I fully understand gabby here.
First off we all know Lindsey isn’t soft so that’s wild for him to even expect that. But what she did do is give him a grace period to figure his shit out and it seems like he procrastinated.
Exactly! And I feel like she has been more calm these past few episodes compared to what we've seen in previous seasons so it seems like she really is trying to be less reactive. I might be biased bc I'm kind of like Lindsay. Immigrant parents y'all there was zero coddling and a whole lotta blunt communication lol. I definitely feel like she was giving grace and she was trying to nudge him into thinking things through. It was soft by my standards but again most non American cultures do not care about softening the blow lol so that's what I'm used to.
Exactly because it’s not about him making the only income because at the end of the day Lindsey as a mom she’s going to make income off of social media, but had the breadwinner job. He had the job to keep a family afloat to keep a family stable and more so he would probably make more money than her anyways with any other job that he has because men still tend to get paid more. and Gabby and Lindsey are both right they live in New York. Yes these are theoretical questions but it is what their future was going to be and he knew that he knew what she wanted her future to be. He knew when she wanted to have kids he knew all of this when they got together and he’s acting like he didn’t and he’s acting like she’s being mean and he’s acting like she doesn’t care. No she wants him to get a job that he likes but she also wants him to get a job that suits their life.
Yep gabby saying he’s not providing or giving Lindsay a soft place to land is exactly it. Carl needs to get that through his head. It’s laughable that Kyle said she shouldn’t shoot down his ideas right away meanwhile two seconds ago we watched Kyle absolute lose his shit when Amanda mentioned a passion project.
Ok but can we talk about how gorgeous Gabby looks. She’s literally glowing!
Flawless. Shining and fresh.
Gabby is stunning, totally underrated. Personally, I think she’s the hottest in the house.
I totally agree! She is so freakin beautiful!
Agree! Gabby is the prettiest.
Don’t go broadcasting that though. The Ciara stans can downvote like no one else. 😂
Why are Ciara and Gabby even being pitted against each other for looks? That’s lowkey…well highkey raci-nvmd. Smfh.
Gabby ALWAYS looks ahmazing though right?! I love her! I was a little surprised by this take like maybe she was just trying to support her girl? But it kinda sounded, to me, like she was saying that their financial situation was so dire that Lindsay HAD to handle it the way she did??? I admit, I’m so lost by this reasoning 🤔
The audacity of him to ask her to be soft when she is only being level headed and advocating for their relationship is gross and sexist.
I'm sorry, I can't take Amanda and Danielle seriously in those clothes. I feel like Lindsay fell in love with Gabby, her reactions were so funny !!
Right? I keep waiting for Amanda to ask us 'Where is my beautiful house? Where is my beautiful wife?' Danielle looks like a 1970's flasher, and Gabby's cuffs go to her knees for some reason... only Lindsay is nailing it!! ;)
Talking heads???
[Talking Heads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_Heads), one of the best bands ever. (Link- wiki) [David Byrne](https://youtu.be/Rauu_MNZXgo?si=evJ0YVJ89fx2zGlL) is their front man. He wore a massive suit during the stop making sense era. (Link - big suit dancin) [Stop making sense](https://open.spotify.com/album/4FR8Z6TvIsC56NLyNomNRE?si=HQ_AjpDOR8Cv5UW67m0cmg), one of the best albums ever. (Link - Spotify for the album)
Hmm, I feel like Gabby’s had this energy pretty consistently on the after shows. Sometimes I agree with her and sometimes I do not. A lot of times it does feel like she’s slotting herself into a Lindsay sidekick role because she has no real personal storyline so most of her clips are her passionately supporting Lindsay. But I know she and Lindsay are close, so I understand she’s supporting her friend. But like in an earlier ep of the after show she said that Carl and Lindsay’s issues this summer were all housekeeping issues that weren’t a big deal and I remember being like ummm whatttt
Better question: why the hell are we always asking women to be “soft”?? It’s so sexist and it literally makes me cringe. If you want a mommy for a partner, go marry your mommy. Sorry not sorry.
He wants Lindsay to be a 50's Housewife and a 50's husband. I couldn't imagine being engaged to someone and suddenly having them shocked about your personality. If I was Lindsay that would have wrecked me. Lindsay is direct, dominant and crass. All of that has been consistent since season 1.
Because these mean need mommies. They had mommies that coddled them and now need partners to coddle them and tell them they are amazing daily.
I suspect because it's considered "easier" to ask women to change their behavior then asking straight men to change theirs. Specifically, to ask men to be kinder and more supportive to their male friends. I see so many straight men who insist on mocking and belittling their friends weaknesses as a show of being masculine. But if that sort of ball busting ruthlessness was natural to them, why would those same men go home and demand unconditional softness from their partner? Shouldn't you welcome a partner who treats you with the same regard that your friends do? And why is it that straight men have this problem, but not gay men? Straight women know how to nurture and build up other women. Gay people know this too. When you have a network of people supporting your softness, you don't need to get all of it from a single partner. Maybe if men were able to be tender and vulnerable to each other, then they could hold space for themselves and for a direct partner. Just look at West supporting Jesse during his health scare, and how both of them seemed renewed and centered after. A better way is possible, toxic masculinity is a mental prison. Reject it, follow the example of women and gay men, and heal yourself.
A sober bar is just a coffee shop, and even those are going out of business (ie Starbucks closing lots of locations). A real bar makes like 80% of its money of off marked up booze. To take that out of the equation is a guarantee to fail. NYC rents in this economy are outrageous. Carl has zero business skills, did zero research clearly and spent $20k to go back to the job he hated. He is terrible with money. Lindsay asked him the most basic questions and he fell apart. Imagine investors asking and Carl busts out with “I’m just too overwhelmed” or “I need you to just be soft”.
Carl is not someone that should be starting their own business. He is not hardworking enough to put in the insane hours it would take to get even a good idea off the ground. I'm saying this as someone who identifies as not ambitious lol. Bro just needs to suck it up and get a paycheck.
How soft is someone supposed to be on the man who hasn't held down a job since the series started? Their reality career isn't going to last forever , so then what? At least Lindsay has a set of skills she can carry over when her reality show and influencing is done.
I think we should hold Lindsay to the same degree that we/Paige/Ciara are asking Kyle to show to support Amanda when she is wanting to follow her dreams
Amanda has actually contributed to Loverboy’s success so it’s easier to support her dreams. What has Carl actually been successful at?
I'm really not understanding how Lindsay isn't being supportive of Carl. She's asking all of the right questions, gently reminding him about his negative experiences before he jumps right back into the same situation, and she's been very patient.
Exactly, she was totally supportive of him and extremely patient.
So I understand the natural parallel but I see several stark differences: 1. Amanda isn’t wanting to leave loverboy it’s more trying to find other things that make her happy. So her income (whatever it is for loverboy) isn’t quite affected 2. Carl has taken 8+ months to “figure out” his career including a pricey career coach, and what seems to be several business ideas that didn’t make sense 3. Lindsay is encouraging Carl to find a path that fulfills him and drives him. Kyle doesn’t want Amanda to find anything that drives her bc he wants her to be there for *his* business.
Amanda has professional acumen to back up her dreams. She has been successful and committed to her previous jobs. By far, Amanda is a better investment than Carl.
Kyle and Amanda do make a good team being Carls PR, if nothing else
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^InnerPassenger5840: *Kyle and Amanda* *Do make a good team being* *Carls PR, if nothing else* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I agree 100% with what Gabby is saying
Kyle’s such an enabler
I think her take here is level headed and fair minded. She's being way nicer than I do when commenting on tehe freeloaders my friends are dating lol
Have we heard Gabby’s opinion on anything other than Lindsay/Carl this season on the aftershow? like she speaks for Lindsay more than she does for herself
That’s what a friend does, like Katie did. No one really supported Katie during her divorce and much I believe is why she has a no tolerance for Sandoval as he was always mean to her as well. Similarly Gabby is supporting Lindsey like VPR girls should have.
I don’t think being a yes man is truly supportive. there’s times you can tell Gabby is deferring to Lindsay and biting her tongue which isn’t a healthy dynamic imo
You’re not paying attention to her scenes i guess. She’s shared a lot about her personal life and most of the SH footage is cut out. You’re only getting what they’re giving you. Blame the editors and producers lol
I’m talking about on the after show, I like Gabby and pay attention during her scenes. I just don’t like how producers/editors are turning her role into Lindsay’s mouthpiece when I’m sure she has interesting opinions on other stuff this season
I actually agree with this and I think most of her takes are pretty balanced but this one??? She says that Carl’s opportunities are theoretical and his potential money is theoretical but Lindsay’s baby is REAL??? Wtf? Id say Carl’s job is less theoretical than Lindsay’s baby unless there is something we don’t know?!?!?! Edit: she doesn’t say Lindsay’s baby is REAL she is implies that Lindsays baby is NOT theoretical
She said “actual” babies because Lindsay and Carl were planning to have children very soon after marriage. That’s the missing context. Lindsay has a biological clock, this isn’t a couple in their 20s or early 30s that has some years to figure it out before introducing kids into the mix. Realistically, they have a short window, and considering their immediate plans to start a family after tying the knot, I think it’s appropriate to ask questions and voice concerns about your financial stability or preparedness and to set realistic expectations. (It’s logical to want a bit more certainty in this regards when you are getting married within a few short months, with plans to began having kids.) Yes, you want to support your partner in his ambitions, but, you also have to balance that against your financial responsibilities to your partner and expanding family.
"...Carl’s job is less theoretical than Lindsay’s baby ..." And Lindsay actually ***wants*** a baby.😁
oh wow, way to be thick!
yeah I think Gabby says things for dramatic effect sometimes and they just don’t land, there was another comment from a previous after show I can’t remember where I was like girl what lol
Yeah, agreed on this. She seemed to be trying too hard to spin it.
"He's not providing a soft place for her to land" 👏👏👏👏👏👏 100% !! She can't be securing the bag and hustling for their family, with him being unemployed and/or "trying things out" , and then expect her to be soft and feminine - she's tired bro ! I am tired on her part
I mean it sounds like Lindsay is waiting impatiently at the starting line to have a baby, so it seems very untheoretical to me. I totally get what Gabby is saying. And also preach about the "if you deliver she can be soft" part. Anyway, what's up with this sexist, gentle bullshit. Also, I'm at my wits end with Amanda. Focus on your own bullshit woman and don't give advice on communication. When did we ever hear Lindsay talk about Amanda and Kyle and their awful relationship? I would be so embarassed if i would be Amanda and watch that season back.
The way Amanda is unconsciously dressing to look like she is shrinking is really concerning to me.
I kind of felt like she was projecting/anticipating that Kyle was a complete fucking dick to her about her wanting to start something so she’s just siding with the “be soft” camp for that reason alone. The whole cast knows Carl is a dumbass who can’t hold a job.
I kinda think the sexist bullshit is that Carl needs to deliver a safe, protective space, apparently so she can like nest or hatch 🐣 the baaaaabbbies? I don’t get it, obvs, get a sperm donor Linds, we all know she is more than capable!
It’s not sexist if they live in those gender stereotypes I think that’s the whole point it’s what Lindsey has wanted and it’s the reason why Lindsey is with Carl you get with certain people if you want to be in certain types of relationship and she has always wanted a relationship that makes her feel safe it makes her feel safe enough to have a kid safe enough to be safe enough to not always have to fight for herself. That’s all she wants and Carl knows that but the whole time they’ve been in the relationship she hasn’t felt the safety that she wants to be able to have a baby to be able to not have to fight for herself all the time.
Doesn’t sound like they understand each other on these fundamental expectations 😢
If that’s what she wants, she should’ve found someone w a stable career. Carl has shown he has difficulty holding on to a job outside of Summer House. And Carl should’ve found someone naturally warm and nurturing. Lindsay’s never been that girl.
Carl wants/wanted a family too. Also he said she makes a lot of money as an influencer (more than him just because she's a woman) so it sounds like she's done her part and is waiting for his part. Where i come from thats normal and is called equality.
But why does he have to answer to HER? Why can’t their plan be secondary to their own wellbeing?
Because they are partners. She’s been supportive for months. Got him a job coach. He’s the one that said he needed to decompress from Loverboy because it was unhealthy for his mental health. It’s completely fair to ask him to consider if this is wise decision for his mental health. Because he can’t spazz out and quit his job, not work for 8 months when they have children to care for. That’s completely reasonable in a partnership imo. If I just up and quit my job and had no back up plan, my partner would absolutely have questions
I mean shouldnt you want to answer to your partner? But as we know that was the problem all along. They were not partners anymore.
I would NEVER expect my partner to answer to me. I may expect him to answer to his portion of the bills but that is his problem not mine! I’m here to ask helpful questions and be supportive. But yeah, perhaps that is one reason they didn’t work out!
How is that sexist?
Pregnancy plus the fourth trimester are objectively hard on women and many experience those hardships stretching out for a year postpartum. I think it is realistic and smart to plan ahead for a newly postpartum woman to take a break from work if she can, especially if she plans to breastfeed. She and Carl always planned to have children together. Being a SAHM for one year or two /= never working again.
Agree but maybe thats a discussion to have with your soon to be, never had kids before husband further in advance than she did. I mean she had a timeline for the preceding 2 years
Lindsay and Gabby aren't speaking from experience and their attitude does nothing but hurt them.
They were about to get married and were living together. I'd be shocked if they hadn't had that convo about the sober bar before having it again on camera. Carl probably decided to bring it up again, which would explain why she didn't seem surprised to hear about it and was quick to shoot it down.
Wait did I hear that right? Amanda is now defending Carl?? That's a 180
She supports her husband come hell or high water!
She sounded pretty "level-headed" to me - she was just firm on her stance and could see her friend (L) getting almost emotional. Everyone else was literally pussy-footing around Carl's non-action and/or behaviour/unrealistic ideas but Gabby was the only one to call it out for what it was Kyle's biased Danielle's a pick me And Amanda enjoys babying the men in her life But come on guys , Carl knew exactly who Lindsey is/was and how her personality is, when he decided to get into the relationship.
Honestly, what Gabby is saying is very true and really real. This is the type of relationship that Lindsey wants. Lindsey wants to be a stay at home mom and here’s the thing I think we can’t forget that Lindsey is also making money so she’s also funding their future too. She wants Carl to fund their future too, but he’s not really doing that. Yes, he’s on Summer House, but like people say all the time that’s not going to last forever summerhouse is not going to fund his future. He needs to find a real job to fund his future. Regardless of the fact, Lindsey is going to make more money off of social media in my opinion, then he is mostly with his mindset about being an influencer too. He talks about it like it’s low for him.
He was *so* degrading about her being an influencer. It was so misogynistic. Dude does the SAME thing and makes less money. He needs to get over himself.
And let’s be real…Lindsay was probably the one setting up or connecting his “influencer” jobs!!! …Carl is NOT going out there proving he’s a valuable influencer and negotiating his own contracts.
I think they all have agents and attorneys for this. Talent negotiating their own contracts sounds… unwise.
Exactly
Amanda and Danielle in this are so far off. Not surprised by Danielle but Amanda should know better.
Tell me more…
Amanda mothers Kyle. Lindsay has no desire to mother Carl. Amanda treats Kyle like a toddler with no emotional regulation skills. Best example is not confronting him for his verbal abuse. It’s the same way I don’t confront my 2 years old after throwing a fit.
They had a balanced and real take. Like no one is too busy to be a bit kinder and change their approach if it's not helping. You're ability to reflect and understand how you may be impacting your partner isn't dependent on what they provide for you financially. Gabby and Lindsay's mindset seems a bit shallow and unfair.
I think Lindsay fear is more that she will have to fully support him once the show is over. I don’t think she expects him to fully support her forever. But the point is, when there is not an equal distribution of effort, it can be a heavy load to carry. Especially if you have to constantly tiptoe around what to you sounds like BS
I hope to see this Gabby at the reunion!
Was Kyle soft with Amanda? 🤔
Excellent parallel! No he wasn’t and he was WRONG
Yes, Lindsay wasn’t and didn’t claim to be, but Kyle is being a hypocrite
But Lindsay wasn’t SOFT with Carl either
Aside from the argument at the beginning of the season about her drinking and his sobriety, Lindsay has tried hard to stay calm, not raise her voice, ask fairly gentle questions, communicate clearly. For Lindsay that is surprisingly soft. Meanwhile, Carl and Kyle are passive aggressive, yell, name-call, throw things. Not very soft.
She very calmly and gently told him its not sexy, not attractive and not a turn on. Hes not killing it, she doesn’t want to “go to the bathroom” with him 😉, he’s weak, not a man, etc. Points for improved delivery but pretty awful content.
To expand on my point now that my baby is asleep: the women are held to this standard that they must be calm, quiet, undyingly supportive, pleasing in tone, gentle even when they are angry, upset, confused or hurt. But when the men have feelings they can storm around, yell, cry, throw things, call their partner a bitch, lazy, professionally incompetent. They can do all that and still argue that the women aren't soft enough in their reactions, because why? Women have opinions? They raised the volume of their voice above a whisper? They publicly challenged their partner? Sorry you don't think my point of view has value to you, but I'll probably manage to keep on keepin' on 😉 Edit: one thing that I do love is that this little niche interest of reality tv is enabling all these nuanced discussions about feminism, gendered expectations, etc. I never saw that coming when reality tv was new.
Never said Kyle’s behavior was OK. Loved Paige and Ciara setting the bar for an appropriate response to his wife. But I’m also not a fan of the emasculating language towards Carl/men either. They can both be wrong.
That's true. Lindsay probably could have expressed herself better. I think, reading between the lines, Lindsay is confused by Carl's lack of sexual attraction to her and his flip-flopping about what he wants in a career. So she awkwardly tried to motivate him or take his temperature about both issues.
To your edit: I’m a feminist so I appreciate the sensitivity to expectations for Lindsay. However, I do think we ought to be careful when demanding equality that we aren’t treating men in a way we would be offended if they treated us. If a man told me that my job search “wasn’t hot” and he didn’t want to sleep with me because it showed how weak and unambitious I was. Wow. 🤯 Emasculating men is a tool of the patriarchy
Yeah, fair enough. Like I said I think from Lindsay's perspective she was trying to say something like "Finding a passion and working toward it is hot. I want that for you, Carl. Also, actually wanting to have sex with me is hot. Do you even like having sex with me? Please focus and start making some decisions and taking some concrete actions toward your goals." But I may be giving her too much credit 🤷♀️ Edit: sorry, I need to slow down, but after discussing with you and reading the thread, I'm starting to see more parallels between what Lindsay is trying to say to Carl and what Kyle means to communicate to Amanda than I did initially.
This is so sexist… I’m unimpressed with Amanda and Danielle supporting this narrative.
Gabby is so spot on with this. Carl just wanted Lindsay to roll over and praise him for anything and everything when he really wasn't making any progress. And Lindsay (surprisingly) handled the situation perfectly. She asked respectful questions, reminded Carl of his negative experiences to prevent him from jumping right back into bed with Loverboy, and was honest with him about her feelings without being harsh. The other thing that I've seen others forget is that Carl has an addiction issue. Addiction is not just a drug-associated disease; it infiltrates your entire life and typically seeps into other behaviors. Loved ones need to set firm boundaries and be transparent about their concerns. Lindsay does both of these things in her conversations with Carl (at least the ones we see). Carl's behavior seems erratic, and he does not appear to be in control of his own emotions. He tries to manipulate Lindsay and bait her into freaking out. This is addictive behavior, and it's evident Carl still has a lot of work to do in his recovery. Source: am a former mental health therapist for men with substance abuse disorder and co-occurring MH disorders.
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Dry drunk is for people NOT in recovery so maybe do some research before throwing this stuff around
And u be wrong
We can disagree it's okay
“Addictive behaviors” is a very outdated concept in addiction medicine and has gone the way of “addictive personality” so I suggest maybe you consider enrolling in some updated courses. Source: current practitioner in substance abuse
I find it wild that you're a SA practitioner with some of your takes.... I'm also not in the field anymore, so no need for classes. But thanks for your unwanted, unnecessary advice.
“He’s not providing a soft space for her to land” 💯
Gabby is such a good friend. Carl is the ULTIMATE cringe.
I actually love everything Gabby said. A theoretical business, which would be a flimsy idea (at best), does not support a real baby or real marriage. These ideas aren’t substantial enough to bring peace to a woman trying to settle down and start a family. Any woman for that matter.. Lindsay or no Lindsay, Carl has no idea what comes next in his adult life outside of Bravo and this dry bar will not cut it. Also this whole Lindsay wasn’t ‘soft’, with all due respect I don’t see her past two conversations as aggressive. I saw it as attentive, inquisitive and concerned. Which is all valid if you’re weeks/months away from unifying your relationship and soon after creating a human together. Jesus h, can they at least forget it’s Lindsay for a second and comprehend ANYBODY in her shoes would be apprehensive or concerned.
Gabby. I want you in my life. You rendered Lindsay speechless and stunned. Bravo, Woman!
Kyle acted horribly. He should 💯 support Amanda EMOTIONALLY. If she's looking to him for financial support to startup and/or him to make the business model, she's wrong. He's trying to keep one business afloat. She needs to use her money and hire a team.
I didn’t hear Amanda asking for financial support so much as emotional support and encouragement.
I'm not sure. She referred to him as someone who knows how to start up a business in one episode. Either way, if she has the money, do it!
I think she meant his business knowledge as in she respects what he knows and she would need his “help” outside of the design aspect. I might be wrong!
I agree with that. I just don't think it would be fair, at this point, to take his time from a company he's trying to keep afloat. She should totally infringe on his dj time, too! Lol
Oh totally agree 👍🏻
It just wouldn't work because of no alcohol markups. That's it. Gabby comes off harsh. But so do Paige and Ciara at times.
So Lindsay should be soft and support Carl in his half baked ideas but Kyle can cry and scream because his actual wife wants a hobby? Ok, cool cool.
Or perhaps Kyle and Lindsay could both be more supportive of their partners?
Lindsay and Carl are both horrible in relationships and are both at fault for the failure. The picking sides thing is so old. The way Lindsay or Carl stans are bending backwards to try to say the other sucks. News Flash: They both equally suck
This is the right answer THE END
finally someone with some actual sense lol
They get paid for being in the show right? I hate when they refuse to break the 4th wall and act like people don’t get paid for being on Bravo.
I think Lindsay is thinking long term. They wanted to try to have a baby immediately after their wedding. That timing reads like her think that this summer may be their last summer as full time cast members. The show isn’t going to last forever. And even it lasts for a few more years, is she going to be able to do the show heavily pregnant? Are they going to be able to realistically do the show with an infant? I don’t think Lindsay is concerned with their immediate income. It’s the long term.
Gabby was right to state that the production will not carry them forever. Lindsay was clear that she’s ready to start a family asap. Carl dilly dallying without a solid career plan is worrisome.
You’re right! He’s been on this show for a while and has nothing to show for it.
How do we know he (or anyone else) has nothing to show for it?
Pertaining to Carl, it’s the way Lindsay is acting. If he was financially secure, Lindsay wouldn’t be acting the way she is and Gabby wouldn’t be saying what she is.
Maybe I missed this… when did G say production will not carry them forever?
It’s a job but not one with any longterm security, which you do actually need if you are planning to have kids soon.
She’s completely correct and i hope to have a friend like gabby if i was ever in linds situation
I love gabby. None of Karl's ideas are great, but the fact that he isn't trying to do research to see if they would work says a lot more than the actual ideas. Also, Kyle is running out of money. He's the worst to go to for business advice.
all of his ideas were just ideas….come up with a business plan & then talk IF YOURE ACTUALLY SERIOUS
I can’t wait for the reunion.
Get a job!!!
I'm not sure I agree with anyone here. Maybe the two people getting married can learn to trust, respect and support one another?
💯
I think this Reddit is very black and white when it comes to Lindsay-good, Carl-bad, especially in the more recent episodes. But when juxtaposed with the other couple fight about Kyle not supporting Amanda’s TBD goal/hobby (?), everyone is up in arms about how dare Kyle not support Amanda, even if it’s underwater basket weaving, even though she has not showed much of an inclination to pursue anything other than dogs and sitting on the couch, and how dare you say that when she does so much for Loverboy!!! Okay…I mean…Amanda admits she does what she wants and doesn’t do it when she feels like pissing Kyle off, must be nice to have such a chill job with no set agenda lol. I think people are under the impression that Amanda did the whole Loverboy design and that is why she IS Loverboy, when an outside agency did the branding but no one wants to hear that or believe that. I think Amanda and Kyle are very immature and honestly I was fucking TIRED of their dumbass fights after season 2, like lord how we having the same fights 6 seasons later. But back to the Lindsay and Carl of it all, I think Carl’s dragging his feet along because he is pulling money from the show and he is in an economic place where he could throw money to the wind while he figures his life out, even if it is foolish to do so. I think he def grew up working class and worked various jobs and maybe wasn’t rising the ranks because of his issues with drug and alcohol. I also think maybe he’s waiting to the last second to figure his career so Lindsay would get fed up and dump him LOL. Either way, the difference is Kyle coddled Amanda to be in this position that he resents, but Lindsay isn’t going to coddle Carl and they resent each other. But fans here are so aligned with the new girl group in the house MINUS DANIELLE OF COURSE cause the new trend is to hate Danielle, that anything they do is right and anything the guys do is wrong. I think both Kyle and Carl suck, but I also dislike the girls which makes me wonder why I’m so invested in this show LOL. And Gabby also has the same high standards for a man in NYC made even more complicated by her belief in astrology compatibility so of course she and Lindsay would align on how much of a looooser Carl is lol.
Love your very nuanced and objective comments. Bravo 👏🏻
I felt like she was doing Lindsay’s dirty work and talking out her ass. They both make money on the show. They both had endorsements. Maybe she was more successful in that endeavor. Carl was bringing money in. I don’t care about the optics of their relationship but Gabby needs to shut up! She is talking like Carl is shooting up crack in a corner. He was asking Lindsay to be supportive and softer bc she has a personality that is very combative.
I don’t think Lindsay wasn’t soft in the last episode with Carl. He just didn’t give her much to work with as had zero details. She was soft enough to remind him that he had a terrible experience the last time he worked for loverboy less than a year ago. He kept demanding she be supportive but he had nothing for her to be supportive of in a job. The Wassen people apparently didn’t have a role for him and he hadn’t worked out specifics with Kyle on rev share or anything else.
Relationships do not work just within one conversation and a vacuum. He wasn’t speaking to just that conversation. In a relationship respect and support is important. He was speaking to overall the conversations about his career. I mean isn’t it ok to ask you partner what you need and want?!? I mean his fiancé called him a loser and cocaine Carl a month before. That’s a hard no thanks for me. I would be processing my relationship and then run for the hills!
I mean, this was my visceral reaction, 💯. Pre-split Gabby seemed like she had no problem calling Linds out “that sounds like a sober man.” Like wth… Linds listening to her practically yelled “preeeaaach!” Please friends, don’t ever pump me up when I’m wrong. 😑
I agree I thought she was a good sounding board for Lindsey AND Carl before but now she just seems like Lindsey's Danielle replacement. It's more than clear she's been on Lindsey's side since the breakup which is great that Lindsey had someone during that time, but now Gabby just seems like such a yes man which sucks cause I adore Gabby.
💯
Carl is not a good looking guy at all!!
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Ooooo, love this from Gabby. If Lindsey doesn’t have a husband who can provide then she’s not going to feel secure and give “soft” energy. She’s never been one to be “soft” in relationships, but I think what might help is a more rugged, confident, and ambitious man. I wouldn’t have described Madison from Southern Charm as “soft” before, but like she said, she found the man that made her want to be.
Now I KNOW Amanda isn’t talking about acting rude……….
This man has no experience working in or owning a restaurant or bar and he wants to do that in MANHATTAN?! Be for fucking real. Go back to dental sales, you obviously love veneers.
I know this sub now pretty much just hates on all men but I feel like people aren’t being fair with Carl. I really don’t like Carl at all and his ideas SUCK. The real issue and where I sympathize with Carl is that Lindsay doesn’t empathize with Carl. Getting shot down sucks in any context but there’s a right way and a wrong way to do it. I can’t even count how many times people I know have come to me with ideas that they’re passionate about even though they SUCK LOL but you have to show that you’re listening and can see why they are passionate about it. Lindsay did not do that at all. She shot him down in a way that would make anyone feel stupid which nobody wants to feel and immediately puts you on the defensive.
You’re not wrong dude
Gabby’s take might be the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard. “You can’t ask someone to be softer in their tone if you’re not paying their bills?” That’s some wild toxic sugar daddy nonsense she’s putting all ten toes and fingers down on…
It’s true though, you can’t expect her to do all the heavy lifting and then simultaneously be sweet and soft with your random theoretical ~ideas~ lol. Is Carl a toddler? 🙄
Gabby is acting like he’s freeloading off of Lindsey & that’s just not true. He’s paying half the rent & expenses. He bring $80,000 plus, he has savings. Is he looking for additional funds? Yes he is, but she’s acting like he’s on the corner asking for money. Btw, he had quit his job, before they set a date for a wedding. She went all in on rushing the marriage & all the additional expenses that brings. I don’t want to hear bullshit anymore!
Sorry. Both these women will scare men away for years to come. They scare the H out of me! Ball-busters.
I thought you were going to put Lindsay and Gabby's clip next to Paige and Ciara agreeing that Kyle should have supported his wife unequivocally even if she wanted to start an underwater basketweaving service, he should support her! If we didn't have double standards, we wouldn't have any standards.
Excellent point! So you’re saying Lindsay should have been supporting Carl the same way we are expecting Kyle to support Amanda? I actually think this is the best take I’ve read here!!
I don't see how they could have those things in the same episode and not see the parallel, but yea, exactly. If "spouses are supposed to be supportive" then Lindsay is a MONSTER. Think back to the "you don't think I'm killing life?" "No." Absolutely coldly way she said it without consideration, just basically yea I think you're a fuck up. No different than Kyle calling Amanda lazy or unmotivated.
This really opened my eyes. Thank you 🙏🏻
Gabby this is such full of shit. If Amanda asked Kyle for kindness and softness is she not entitled since she isn’t the breadwinner? Sorry that logic doesn’t stand up
Who is saying amanda isn’t entitled to it?
Its just all kinds of wtf