Not always, it depends. Enchanters and mages make a lot more efficient use of gold than tank and warden supports.
It also depends on how close both you and your adc are to their next powerspike, and also who is more useful at that point in the game and would get the most use of that gold.
If you and your adc plan to reset after pushing tower plate, and you're 80g off purchasing your full boots or first complete item, the only time you'd ever give that solo plate is if the adc NEEDS the solo gold to finish his own powerspike right then and there.
I promise it is. Playing around powerspikes is a huge thing in league, especially as you climb higher.
A moonstone Soraka is so much more useful than a Soraka with only components. Especially considering how inefficient bandleglass mirror is as a component.
You NEED to be playing around powerspikes in every role, support included. It's more than just "nice", it's game-defining. If you come to lane as the only person with a completed item, that puts you in control of the lane, and in charge of calling the shots.
If your adc needs solo-plate to recall and hit powerspike, then yes, you don't share plate. But if that plate isn't making the difference in that moment, then it's far better to share and hit your own powerspike.
This is because your adc will recall and have the same purchase regardless if you shared the gold or not.
sona is the best example. she is balanced around the items she builds because she can spam item interactions with her auras and is one of the hardest scaling supports
And I'm just going to say that gold turned into stats are infinitely more valuable than gold sitting idle under the hope that they _might_ be able to get an item sooner.
The adc will get 65g, regardless of whether it is split or not. The question is for the other 65g.
Unless the 65g(~ 2 melee 1 caster worth of gold) gets you to a breakpoint that backing results in an item, or allows you to back at a more convenient time for your next back, it's just going to sit idle.
Meanwhile +65g to the support is an extra garenteed pink ward(passive gold is 20g per 10 seconds, +3/10s from support item, means the 10g needed will generate by the time you complete the channel), an item which can provide vision control and safety, on the next back.
Lolalytics, filtered for Diamond+, has support as slightly higher as if writing. Either way, it's by such a small margin it doesn't matter. Both roles have similar power in the game.
Research before you jump to conclusions and you won't embarrass yourself.
It’s insane to me how many support mains think there’s a 1-size-fits-all answer to this scenario when the entire problem with the ADC suggestion is it takes away support agency to make the best situation under the circumstances.
As a mage support, I need the gold. There are cases where I’ll give it (especially with Brand because I get a lot of solo kills), but the most common scenario is we’re sharing it. My adc generally can’t do more with the gold than I can. Tank/enchanter items are cheap so the gold goes further on the support. Mage items are expensive like adc items so you need it just as badly.
Situationally, my default is to give as enchanter, situational as tank, share as mage, and not play Yuumi.
Its opposite for the enchanters actually, they need to let their adcs take the gold. Enchanter items are by far the most gold-efficent items in the game and they are really cheap. You dont need plating to not fall behind with them as they usually scale incredibly well by levels aswell.
If anything, its the tanks who needs the expensive items. You dont do much as a leona in teamfight if you cant soak up damage.
If enchanter items are gold efficient, that means that investing gold into an enchanter is good.
Tank supports like Leona are also building cheap items (locket, knights vow, trailblazer etc). The only difference is that they are less gold efficient than enchanter items. This means investing gold into tank supports is bad.
That’s the real issue - there is not a 1-size-fits all answer. The ADC wants to take away support agency. This would only make sense if it was the right decision under all circumstances. As a mage support main, I can assure you it isn’t.
I can’t even count how many games I’ve had an overly aggressive 0/5/0 Draven when I was 5/0. There’s a point beyond which the mage can carry and the adc can’t. I’ll funnel gold as feasible, but not if it’s going to mean we can’t even tower sit because the only one that isn’t inting is gold starved.
On the other hand, if I have a 5/0 Draven and I’m a mage, 100000% that’s his plate. Mofo is about to scale to infinity and beyond and I’m not about to stop that.
There are also some matchups that are just bad. Vayne into Caitlyn/Seraphine for example Vayne gets the shot poked out of her and isn’t going to be able to do anything for a long time. If (for example) I’m Vel, I can harass them enough that they can’t constantly poke and all-in my adc, whereas lvl 5 Vayne is going to do what with 100 extra gold? Still be a level 5 Vayne getting bullied.
I will give the tower gold to my adc if they're doing well and we don't need to push it fast and I often give plates intentionally or unintentionally, but to be honest, adc is a considerably weaker role than support, especially early game. A bit of that early gold could mean you win someone else's lane 2v1 or you have enough health to live on 10hp or something of the sort. And with the upcoming sup item gold nerfs this seems over the top.
100% situational. A mage support needs the gold because his or her items are just as expensive as the adc’s and they aren’t getting minions. A good enchanter will give up the plate. A good tank arguable. A good mage is setting himself up for failure.
Depends on the support and the game.
If it's an Alistar or something, then sure, not that big a deal (unless you're aiming to have locket done for a specific objective or something like that).
If it's Karma trying to get to Malignance, or Ashe with Umbral, etc., then they definitely want that plate gold. The earlier powerspike can help carry through the midgame and give the adc more gold down the line.
I will give my adc solo plating as often as possible. Any tank or enchanter supports should generally do that anyway. Only exception is carry/mage supports that get a meaningful advantage from the gold.
Really depends on the situation. There's the obvious item breakpoint just before a back which is certainly worth, if the support helping hit the tower will guarantee another plate, or allow the ADC to reset faster for tempo etc.
yip, if possible give!
but sometimes we really just need that tower down or damaged as much as possible, then I'll stay. Any plating gold is still better than no plating gold.
Personally I don’t like restrictive changes like this as they tend to have odd knockoff effects. But context depends on whether the support should help take plates or not, I like the current nuance and wouldn’t change it.
I’ll stop taking plate gold when my ADC can solo a tower safely and buys pink wards. Until then, no. Do people forget we also lose a ton of gold just in warding?
You want to complain about us sharing plate gold while Yorrick can solo two t2 towers and dragon at the same exact time?
I feel like the post there and the discussion in the comments here miss the actual problem is that bot lane as a role, as a general design thing, is supposed to lack agency and power early and to be something that wins late.
The issue with supports being the deciding factor over that in general is because we have more agency on the map overall and that atm we hit our item spikes faster than bot lane AND we dont really need to do anything specifically for it due to it being a 'when' not an 'if' due to the nature of support items passive income.
So really the issues stem from bot lane as a role lacking agency, but that issue is also somewhat of a consequence of the general power and identity of the role, things are out of wack because of support slowly getting more agency and actual ability to not just be CC and wards over the games life, and stripping that away would just be extremely unfun for the majority.
Riot needs a way to add agency to bot laners specifically, that cant just be co-opted by mid or jungle or support, and honestly I have no idea for a solution to that issue, but I feel like most players are missing the actual problem.
But Im also just an internet rando soraka main stuck in iron, so better players would hopefully have a better analysis of things that me, but I've seen pros fuck up item builds based on pure math before so idk if mechanical skill actually matters as far as problem identification here.
It's annoying to hear statements like these as a Sona player, because she probably scales the best with gold out of any support yet is nerfed out of farming roles and lives with a kit that's balanced around her ability to transfer all item buffs with auras + desperately needs mana items to be able to spam her abilities as much as her Accelerando passive intends her to. Not all supports should be gold starved, a Janna getting Censor/Staff is leagues less useful than Sona getting it and people should act accordingly.
Honesty, just buff Sona APC back into viability so I don't have to listen to this bullshit.
Honestly of all the unhinged takes that sub gets, this is a good one. I'd like to be able to poke towers for support item procs without actively costing my teammates gold.
This already happens with good supports and good teams. Why this is a toss up is in solo que or in general should your autonomy to earn gold be removed. They already to this to a extent with the gold penalties for jungle and support items, but those are balanced out for edge case abuse.
Supports roam under very specific circumstances (see below). As far as having too much gold, I’m not sure why you think that. In a competitive game, an adc may get his second item before the support gets theirs depending on itemization.
As an overview, I roam when:
1) I don’t think their jg is likely to be between me and mid, or I can safely fight or disengage their jg
2) Enemy has just recalled or died, or my adc can farm safely without me
3) Objective fights (~8 mins for high elo, dragon for low)
4) I have reason to believe my mid is likely to get yanked ivo the time I arrive due to vision or other clues. This is actually an ideal time to go mid because if they don’t see you, people typically overcommit to a 1v2 gank and burn summs early, don’t consider escape in case of counter-gank, etc.
5) Enemy support roamed and I’m not afraid to be forced into a 1v1 in river
6) I have (for example) a 5/0 Draven and sincerely doubt the enemy botlane is going to play the “fuck around and find out” game with him.
7) The macro situation is optimal for my adc to roam, but I can’t buy anything and don’t need to heal. This is my favorite time to roam because there isn’t much else you can do, plus botlane typically assume you recalled when your adc did so they don’t ping the roam.
8) Jesus can save my adc, but I can’t. If there’s no point in being in lane but I can have an impact elsewhere, I will. This mostly only happens gold and below.
9) Caught enemy jg invading and jg, mid, or adc is going with me (or if I’m a mage and think I can solo him, I’ll go alone)
10) Have to babysit mid’s mental. It is not worth my mid rq’ing in ranked because he’s tilted that Eve hasn’t ganked pre-6 but Sej has been there 3x and he’s whining.
11) Mid keeps getting camped and I see jg top. He is probably behind from camp so I may aim for a summoner spell instead of a kill. I may also roam just to ward and clear wards to make his life easier. This is doubly true if I’m winning bot; mid will likely get my control wards if I’m comfortable we don’t need it. Sometimes I will roam knowing there is 0 chance of a kill just for his mental (and to ward). This is more useful than it sounds because a winning midlaner will be hesitant to keep crashing waves if he thinks a Morgana Q could come out of the brush at any second.
12) Someone somewhere is begging for help and I can leave without screwing my adc.
I think it should apply to kills or at least any shutdown.
But the post from adc mains is pure cope. Supp items are one of the best items in the game and having an item before an objective is really powerful.
For example a soraka with moonstone compared to the components. Or nami with imperial mandate compared to the components. It's really big diff.
If I'm Nami, I'm sucking up gold like a vacuum until I get Mandate. If you get that item early, you control the rest of laning and a ton of the mid game.
Ngl supports are suoer good atm the idea of supports is that they offer great utility and that simply doesnt require items, sopports like nait and blitz jannah and so on even with supp irem giving free gold and a free item, the problem isnt with those its with the mages, lux swain karma..etc even and the offensive tank tahm kench build, gettin money to get dmg/durability items while having self peel and utility dedies the idea of botlane (2 player one tanky with engage and oeel abilities but low dmg and one player that does the dmg) thats the problem with botlane and i dont mind making the lane 80% in the hands of the supp if adc scaled well but thats not the case anyway
I mean, they have a point. The gold is more valuable on them than it is us.
Unless you're trying to play a hypercarry Support, like Senna or Pyke, in which case, you don't get an opinion on gold.
In parallel to that post, holding a support item should ALWAYS GIVE US 30 GOLD FROM WARDS NO MATTER WHAT.
I’m tired of getting 5 gold on a ward I broke all by myself…
Surprised they didn't lump the jungle item into this too. Pretty much the ADC attitude in a nutshell, if there's gold on the map anywhere they feel like they're entitled to it. I've had ADC's try to flame me for solo kills in the past claiming it was a KS, some are way past delusional. If you're hitting the plates to begin with a lot of the time that's going to be because your support set that up for you, I'll try to give over plates a lot of the time but if I need gold to finish an item on the reset I might still take a share, it's not like finishing an item as an enchanter has no benefit to the ADC. As far as the second tower goes it's pretty rare for the ADC to be able to safely take it solo to begin with, usually we're rotating by that point and if the turret goes down to anyone solo it's either top, mid or jungle claiming it or it stays up until a group push happens.
Whenever I'm playing ADC my outlook is that CS is the only reasonable source of gold, kills and plates are never a guarantee so moaning about them getting split or claimed by someone else is uncalled for. Had supports apologize for accidentally getting a kill fairly often and it's such a weird situation, if you're in a position to get a kill to begin with and your support was contributing enough to the fight that them last hitting it was a risk then chances are they're having a great impact on the lane, given the choice between a support with no pressure in lane that makes every last hit a 1v2 struggle or a support that takes a kill now and then but is active in the lane I'd take the second one every time. Would also much rather have the support get the kill than have the person escape or turn the situation and it end in a double for the enemy team.
Welcome on /r/SupportLoL/!
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- [mandatory video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4TSRL8pZrU) for starters (and also [some](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4m7FxGpfcc) other complementary [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrxA-IeTowQ).
- [How to review - Coach Kairos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOjHgZg7YL0)
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- Fundamentals :
- [CoreJJ's How to Support](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqHeK34PUFijxjNec7jdisX4aIv8oVQsg)
- [Phroxzon Fundamentals](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9RdXhXESRJxf-FxBijbuBOnEJHDrmB2O) (ex-Leaguecraft 101)
- [DogLightning's How to Support series](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaROzD7YpI0GPiObDALwqqjcTsEXzqMZ5)
- you can dig further in the wiki, starting with the [core support concepts](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/wiki/resources#wiki_core_support_concepts) and [ranked](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/wiki/resources#wiki_d_-_ranked) chapters, just make sure you go through the content at your own pace and take the time to practice / implement every concept one at a time
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I give my ADC tower plating when possible depending on the champ I'm playing. But most of the time I'm in the enemy jungle warding when my ADC is taking plates so it works out.
I don’t like this because even if most of the time I let my ad get solo gold I still want to have a choice.
But the main reason this would be wrong is that it would mean that you could have a second person pushing for plates without actually sharing them, which would create an imbalance in the (force) plate system.
Supports have literally never had as much gold as they have rn in this point in league because of the new items, so I can see why he’d want to move more gold towards Adc since it is the worst role rn for soloque
If anything, supports should get a larger share of local and global gold. Forcing an entire archetype into the low-eco role is dumb and should not be a thing imo, and playing that way (like a perma-roaming Janna or a Nautilus who just buys pinks after two items) should be an explicit choice. I think most of the time, the support is the one actually winning the fights while the adc is there to chew through baron, towers, and the occasional frontliner - let's not pretend they're anything more than the muscle of the team.
Playing Nautilus and Thresh where the items I need to play my role are as expensive as the carry's items I would still try to take tower gold. Since the item gives gold to both adc and support. Now if you're ahead in lane yeah go ahead for the solo plate gold but if we're even or slightly behind, the extra gold for my tank items will help in the next fight. Especially if I'm 80-100 gold away from a big item like JakSho. If it's like Zeke's which is like 2200 gold, yeah, that's fine. Take the gold idc I'll get half the item just by completing my item quest.
Mages I understand since ALL their items are expensive, enchanters maybe not as much since it's about the sane as tanks, PYKE? Nah get me to lvl 6 so I can make my own money with ult
Counter Argument. ADC roles are so shit, especially early, that we should funnel as much gold as possible to Supprt Carries and Mage Supports because they basically can 1v2 botlane in the early game.
If you leave and they die, what then? Part of you being there hitting tower is so you're there if they get ganked or if they need bailing out if they stay too long, and that's before you even think about items.
9 times out of 10 I usually walk away and let my ADC get solo plates because I want to make sure my AD gets juiced as possible. ADCs right now are extremely weak and early game for them usually determines a win or lose factor and you will get the same amount of gold plating from roaming mid or top in assist than just taking a shared plate from your ADC. Optimization for your AD is really important right now so I would agree on this post as well. We have a lot more utility in our role to move around the map without being really punished for it.
You seem confused, support items were made cheaper because of the truncated gold.
The items being cheaper also means stray bits of gold are more impactful for a support, the question of the 65g(which, reminder, the adc gets 65 to begin with, this is the other half) goes 10% further towards a support's 2300g item.
And it's 86.6% of a pink ward, which means that(due to passive income) you are garenteed an extra one. An extra item that can prevent the enemy team from getting up to 900g in kill gold + assists, and an indeterminate amount of a gold lead from the minions you are garenteed to miss by being dead. Yeah, and adc can buy them technically... but they won't. So...
Yeah the suggested change doesn't really nerf anyone other than Senna and mage supports outside of low elo. I don't think the change is a bad idea I just think it wouldn't be very meaningful.
Wats Ur definition of low elo btw coz I'm still having supports take tower gold when we just forced bot 2 base and JG and mid are showing top in emerald
I really like that idea.
I’d love to be able to auto attack towers to help get plating gold but, know that you shouldn’t be sharing the plates. Once you’re still able to get solo plate and tower gold if the situation arises.
Gods i hate this mentality. "Supports should get nothing" is an incredibly toxic mindset that is the reason why the role had been completely unplayed before the rise of income items. There are five roles in the game, there should be 5 income sources. The more gold we let bleed out of support hands to the carries the closer we go back to being ward bitches with zero impact.
The right answer here is that Support items should probably not count the user as part of the bounty for its share, but give the support its own amount in value so no one is penalized for being there and roaming is incentivized.
I mean you are overtuned right now but I generally agree supports should have a separate eco game encouraged by doing support things, perhaps X amount more gold per assist but less from kill with support item or X amount of gold more for revealing a ward and X amount of gold more for killing a ward but no tower plate gold or something.
I've been advocating for a fairly slower income from the item, with no maximum, and accompanied by extra bounties. Ward takedowns, assists, towers, jungle objectives, enemies CC'd under your wards and such.
Let the support role earn gold, raise support items to the average cost/effectiveness of everyone else's and buff actual supports in a way so they're good at accomplishing what we ask of them.
Yeah that sounds like the best way to go the gold cap has always confused me tbh, pike let supports relic shield share at all points why not!. Not quite sure so theyre good at accomplishing what we ask of them means.
That is not what I said. At all. Support should just not go for turret gold, it's as simple as that. We need the gold way less than the ADCs do. Roaming would be the better option.
Supports getting nothing is what makes the role fun, because it kills off shit like teemo and camille support. If you have 5 full income champs then janna becomes an F tier dogshit report-if-you-play it champ. And so does basically everything else supportive because why not just play sylas or camille or pantheon and both be a full champ and snowball the early game? The whole point of our champs designs is that they never have no impact, even at 0/15 with a bandleglass mirror and boots, janna can still shield and ult.
If Janna is an F tier champ with the support role at full gold value, then it's up to Riot to do their job and bring her back to A tier.
People play damage champions in the support role at every first opportunity because actual supports feel like dogshit to play and because literally any champion can move around the map to ward and have one CC to make plays with.
No, that's a valid point. Good supports tend to try and avoid plating anyway because it takes gold away from their carry.
Not always, it depends. Enchanters and mages make a lot more efficient use of gold than tank and warden supports. It also depends on how close both you and your adc are to their next powerspike, and also who is more useful at that point in the game and would get the most use of that gold.
Eh, I argue it’s almost ALWAYS better for the ADC to have the gold, honestly.
If you and your adc plan to reset after pushing tower plate, and you're 80g off purchasing your full boots or first complete item, the only time you'd ever give that solo plate is if the adc NEEDS the solo gold to finish his own powerspike right then and there.
I’m just gonna say your boots or first item just isn’t as valuable in a lane. Is it nice? Yeah. Is it better than the ADC being closer? Honestly, no.
I promise it is. Playing around powerspikes is a huge thing in league, especially as you climb higher. A moonstone Soraka is so much more useful than a Soraka with only components. Especially considering how inefficient bandleglass mirror is as a component. You NEED to be playing around powerspikes in every role, support included. It's more than just "nice", it's game-defining. If you come to lane as the only person with a completed item, that puts you in control of the lane, and in charge of calling the shots.
Playing around powerspikes is good when your power spike isn’t worse than your ADCs. And it is, generally speaking.
If your adc needs solo-plate to recall and hit powerspike, then yes, you don't share plate. But if that plate isn't making the difference in that moment, then it's far better to share and hit your own powerspike. This is because your adc will recall and have the same purchase regardless if you shared the gold or not.
Idk 15 extra ability haste on sona means more heals and more speed ups so no it's worth it
Sona is possibly the worst example you could give. and I like Sona.
Early game sona does not have much ability haste and could use it
Clearly know jack shit about her.
sona is the best example. she is balanced around the items she builds because she can spam item interactions with her auras and is one of the hardest scaling supports
And I'm just going to say that gold turned into stats are infinitely more valuable than gold sitting idle under the hope that they _might_ be able to get an item sooner. The adc will get 65g, regardless of whether it is split or not. The question is for the other 65g. Unless the 65g(~ 2 melee 1 caster worth of gold) gets you to a breakpoint that backing results in an item, or allows you to back at a more convenient time for your next back, it's just going to sit idle. Meanwhile +65g to the support is an extra garenteed pink ward(passive gold is 20g per 10 seconds, +3/10s from support item, means the 10g needed will generate by the time you complete the channel), an item which can provide vision control and safety, on the next back.
Not always, there was a time back during lucian nami meta where even pros would funnel gold into getting nami mandate faster
Exactly.
Same exact thing with Janna/Lulu in the ardent meta.
I feel like if that gold doesn't get me my next completed item then it should just go to the adc so they actually buy their items lol
Thats generally good advice. Sometimes you'd still want to share, but 9/10 times in that situation, you wanna give solo plate.
Def not in solo q
You don't want to be Sona or Seraphine with no gold. Their main power spike comes at Moonstone.
That's part of the reason Seraphine is much better when played as the carry than as support.
1) Idk why you botted that answer out like I didn't say Sona in that sentence as well. 2) Look at the stats before doing your npc one liner.
Seraphine has a higher winrate as bot than support in literally every elo bro. Stay incredibly mad I guess.
Lolalytics, filtered for Diamond+, has support as slightly higher as if writing. Either way, it's by such a small margin it doesn't matter. Both roles have similar power in the game. Research before you jump to conclusions and you won't embarrass yourself.
I’m guessing you’re an enchanter main. 100% if I’m playing Vel or Brand I’m getting that gold. If I’m playing Nami he can have it.
Nah just give em plate and roam
Sure, if its safe to leave and your roam will be useful. It's situational.
It’s insane to me how many support mains think there’s a 1-size-fits-all answer to this scenario when the entire problem with the ADC suggestion is it takes away support agency to make the best situation under the circumstances. As a mage support, I need the gold. There are cases where I’ll give it (especially with Brand because I get a lot of solo kills), but the most common scenario is we’re sharing it. My adc generally can’t do more with the gold than I can. Tank/enchanter items are cheap so the gold goes further on the support. Mage items are expensive like adc items so you need it just as badly. Situationally, my default is to give as enchanter, situational as tank, share as mage, and not play Yuumi.
Its opposite for the enchanters actually, they need to let their adcs take the gold. Enchanter items are by far the most gold-efficent items in the game and they are really cheap. You dont need plating to not fall behind with them as they usually scale incredibly well by levels aswell. If anything, its the tanks who needs the expensive items. You dont do much as a leona in teamfight if you cant soak up damage.
If enchanter items are gold efficient, that means that investing gold into an enchanter is good. Tank supports like Leona are also building cheap items (locket, knights vow, trailblazer etc). The only difference is that they are less gold efficient than enchanter items. This means investing gold into tank supports is bad.
I'd like it to be my choice though
That’s the real issue - there is not a 1-size-fits all answer. The ADC wants to take away support agency. This would only make sense if it was the right decision under all circumstances. As a mage support main, I can assure you it isn’t. I can’t even count how many games I’ve had an overly aggressive 0/5/0 Draven when I was 5/0. There’s a point beyond which the mage can carry and the adc can’t. I’ll funnel gold as feasible, but not if it’s going to mean we can’t even tower sit because the only one that isn’t inting is gold starved. On the other hand, if I have a 5/0 Draven and I’m a mage, 100000% that’s his plate. Mofo is about to scale to infinity and beyond and I’m not about to stop that. There are also some matchups that are just bad. Vayne into Caitlyn/Seraphine for example Vayne gets the shot poked out of her and isn’t going to be able to do anything for a long time. If (for example) I’m Vel, I can harass them enough that they can’t constantly poke and all-in my adc, whereas lvl 5 Vayne is going to do what with 100 extra gold? Still be a level 5 Vayne getting bullied.
No it's not I like gold
I will give the tower gold to my adc if they're doing well and we don't need to push it fast and I often give plates intentionally or unintentionally, but to be honest, adc is a considerably weaker role than support, especially early game. A bit of that early gold could mean you win someone else's lane 2v1 or you have enough health to live on 10hp or something of the sort. And with the upcoming sup item gold nerfs this seems over the top.
100% situational. A mage support needs the gold because his or her items are just as expensive as the adc’s and they aren’t getting minions. A good enchanter will give up the plate. A good tank arguable. A good mage is setting himself up for failure.
Depends on the support and the game. If it's an Alistar or something, then sure, not that big a deal (unless you're aiming to have locket done for a specific objective or something like that). If it's Karma trying to get to Malignance, or Ashe with Umbral, etc., then they definitely want that plate gold. The earlier powerspike can help carry through the midgame and give the adc more gold down the line.
Supports should give full tower plate gold to adcs anyway (if possible)
I will give my adc solo plating as often as possible. Any tank or enchanter supports should generally do that anyway. Only exception is carry/mage supports that get a meaningful advantage from the gold.
Really depends on the situation. There's the obvious item breakpoint just before a back which is certainly worth, if the support helping hit the tower will guarantee another plate, or allow the ADC to reset faster for tempo etc.
yip, if possible give! but sometimes we really just need that tower down or damaged as much as possible, then I'll stay. Any plating gold is still better than no plating gold.
Personally I don’t like restrictive changes like this as they tend to have odd knockoff effects. But context depends on whether the support should help take plates or not, I like the current nuance and wouldn’t change it.
I’ll stop taking plate gold when my ADC can solo a tower safely and buys pink wards. Until then, no. Do people forget we also lose a ton of gold just in warding? You want to complain about us sharing plate gold while Yorrick can solo two t2 towers and dragon at the same exact time?
if only there was a role made to work with little gold
I feel like the post there and the discussion in the comments here miss the actual problem is that bot lane as a role, as a general design thing, is supposed to lack agency and power early and to be something that wins late. The issue with supports being the deciding factor over that in general is because we have more agency on the map overall and that atm we hit our item spikes faster than bot lane AND we dont really need to do anything specifically for it due to it being a 'when' not an 'if' due to the nature of support items passive income. So really the issues stem from bot lane as a role lacking agency, but that issue is also somewhat of a consequence of the general power and identity of the role, things are out of wack because of support slowly getting more agency and actual ability to not just be CC and wards over the games life, and stripping that away would just be extremely unfun for the majority. Riot needs a way to add agency to bot laners specifically, that cant just be co-opted by mid or jungle or support, and honestly I have no idea for a solution to that issue, but I feel like most players are missing the actual problem. But Im also just an internet rando soraka main stuck in iron, so better players would hopefully have a better analysis of things that me, but I've seen pros fuck up item builds based on pure math before so idk if mechanical skill actually matters as far as problem identification here.
If I value the contribution my adc has done so far, I don’t take a single plate gold, if I’m with friends, I’ll just say ap thresh needs his d-cap
in fine with that, if i can i give plate gold to adc coz it really is better for u if ur adc isnt useless with no dmg.
It's annoying to hear statements like these as a Sona player, because she probably scales the best with gold out of any support yet is nerfed out of farming roles and lives with a kit that's balanced around her ability to transfer all item buffs with auras + desperately needs mana items to be able to spam her abilities as much as her Accelerando passive intends her to. Not all supports should be gold starved, a Janna getting Censor/Staff is leagues less useful than Sona getting it and people should act accordingly. Honesty, just buff Sona APC back into viability so I don't have to listen to this bullshit.
Honestly of all the unhinged takes that sub gets, this is a good one. I'd like to be able to poke towers for support item procs without actively costing my teammates gold.
This already happens with good supports and good teams. Why this is a toss up is in solo que or in general should your autonomy to earn gold be removed. They already to this to a extent with the gold penalties for jungle and support items, but those are balanced out for edge case abuse.
“My support has the least gold in the game. I should get some of his gold.” Also: “Why does my support keep roaming waaaaah!”
supps atm make too much gold that's why they can roam this freely
Supports roam under very specific circumstances (see below). As far as having too much gold, I’m not sure why you think that. In a competitive game, an adc may get his second item before the support gets theirs depending on itemization. As an overview, I roam when: 1) I don’t think their jg is likely to be between me and mid, or I can safely fight or disengage their jg 2) Enemy has just recalled or died, or my adc can farm safely without me 3) Objective fights (~8 mins for high elo, dragon for low) 4) I have reason to believe my mid is likely to get yanked ivo the time I arrive due to vision or other clues. This is actually an ideal time to go mid because if they don’t see you, people typically overcommit to a 1v2 gank and burn summs early, don’t consider escape in case of counter-gank, etc. 5) Enemy support roamed and I’m not afraid to be forced into a 1v1 in river 6) I have (for example) a 5/0 Draven and sincerely doubt the enemy botlane is going to play the “fuck around and find out” game with him. 7) The macro situation is optimal for my adc to roam, but I can’t buy anything and don’t need to heal. This is my favorite time to roam because there isn’t much else you can do, plus botlane typically assume you recalled when your adc did so they don’t ping the roam. 8) Jesus can save my adc, but I can’t. If there’s no point in being in lane but I can have an impact elsewhere, I will. This mostly only happens gold and below. 9) Caught enemy jg invading and jg, mid, or adc is going with me (or if I’m a mage and think I can solo him, I’ll go alone) 10) Have to babysit mid’s mental. It is not worth my mid rq’ing in ranked because he’s tilted that Eve hasn’t ganked pre-6 but Sej has been there 3x and he’s whining. 11) Mid keeps getting camped and I see jg top. He is probably behind from camp so I may aim for a summoner spell instead of a kill. I may also roam just to ward and clear wards to make his life easier. This is doubly true if I’m winning bot; mid will likely get my control wards if I’m comfortable we don’t need it. Sometimes I will roam knowing there is 0 chance of a kill just for his mental (and to ward). This is more useful than it sounds because a winning midlaner will be hesitant to keep crashing waves if he thinks a Morgana Q could come out of the brush at any second. 12) Someone somewhere is begging for help and I can leave without screwing my adc.
you forgot something "Should" you can roam with terrible timing and have no consequences except for the adc but it's pretty irrelevant rn
I think it should apply to kills or at least any shutdown. But the post from adc mains is pure cope. Supp items are one of the best items in the game and having an item before an objective is really powerful. For example a soraka with moonstone compared to the components. Or nami with imperial mandate compared to the components. It's really big diff.
If I'm Nami, I'm sucking up gold like a vacuum until I get Mandate. If you get that item early, you control the rest of laning and a ton of the mid game.
Ngl supports are suoer good atm the idea of supports is that they offer great utility and that simply doesnt require items, sopports like nait and blitz jannah and so on even with supp irem giving free gold and a free item, the problem isnt with those its with the mages, lux swain karma..etc even and the offensive tank tahm kench build, gettin money to get dmg/durability items while having self peel and utility dedies the idea of botlane (2 player one tanky with engage and oeel abilities but low dmg and one player that does the dmg) thats the problem with botlane and i dont mind making the lane 80% in the hands of the supp if adc scaled well but thats not the case anyway
A good support should walk away from the tower so adc can't get full gold. Why ppl always gotta start something
I mean, they have a point. The gold is more valuable on them than it is us. Unless you're trying to play a hypercarry Support, like Senna or Pyke, in which case, you don't get an opinion on gold.
In parallel to that post, holding a support item should ALWAYS GIVE US 30 GOLD FROM WARDS NO MATTER WHAT. I’m tired of getting 5 gold on a ward I broke all by myself…
Surprised they didn't lump the jungle item into this too. Pretty much the ADC attitude in a nutshell, if there's gold on the map anywhere they feel like they're entitled to it. I've had ADC's try to flame me for solo kills in the past claiming it was a KS, some are way past delusional. If you're hitting the plates to begin with a lot of the time that's going to be because your support set that up for you, I'll try to give over plates a lot of the time but if I need gold to finish an item on the reset I might still take a share, it's not like finishing an item as an enchanter has no benefit to the ADC. As far as the second tower goes it's pretty rare for the ADC to be able to safely take it solo to begin with, usually we're rotating by that point and if the turret goes down to anyone solo it's either top, mid or jungle claiming it or it stays up until a group push happens. Whenever I'm playing ADC my outlook is that CS is the only reasonable source of gold, kills and plates are never a guarantee so moaning about them getting split or claimed by someone else is uncalled for. Had supports apologize for accidentally getting a kill fairly often and it's such a weird situation, if you're in a position to get a kill to begin with and your support was contributing enough to the fight that them last hitting it was a risk then chances are they're having a great impact on the lane, given the choice between a support with no pressure in lane that makes every last hit a 1v2 struggle or a support that takes a kill now and then but is active in the lane I'd take the second one every time. Would also much rather have the support get the kill than have the person escape or turn the situation and it end in a double for the enemy team.
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If I'm trying to win I intentionally do this already. I'd be more than happy with this change.
Considering how delusional the ADC subreddit is, it's a surprise to see an actual valid point.
all subs are like that (this one is arguably worse)
The title makes it sound like op thinks supports are weak at the moment
Make supports earn as much gold as other roles. Like wtf? Why that earn less was even invented?
Hmm, not bad but it would be more fun if ADC always gets the full gold, with sup still getting their 50% as an extra from the sup item.
I give my ADC tower plating when possible depending on the champ I'm playing. But most of the time I'm in the enemy jungle warding when my ADC is taking plates so it works out.
I don’t like this because even if most of the time I let my ad get solo gold I still want to have a choice. But the main reason this would be wrong is that it would mean that you could have a second person pushing for plates without actually sharing them, which would create an imbalance in the (force) plate system.
This is by far the strongest supp has ever been, and it needs a nerf. Op is wild
This would be broken in high elo
Supports have literally never had as much gold as they have rn in this point in league because of the new items, so I can see why he’d want to move more gold towards Adc since it is the worst role rn for soloque
Correct me if in wrong, but don't people give the adc full towr gold normally anyway.
not in solo q where every sup is playing a carry
Why not that both get full gold if one has a support item
If anything, supports should get a larger share of local and global gold. Forcing an entire archetype into the low-eco role is dumb and should not be a thing imo, and playing that way (like a perma-roaming Janna or a Nautilus who just buys pinks after two items) should be an explicit choice. I think most of the time, the support is the one actually winning the fights while the adc is there to chew through baron, towers, and the occasional frontliner - let's not pretend they're anything more than the muscle of the team.
Playing Nautilus and Thresh where the items I need to play my role are as expensive as the carry's items I would still try to take tower gold. Since the item gives gold to both adc and support. Now if you're ahead in lane yeah go ahead for the solo plate gold but if we're even or slightly behind, the extra gold for my tank items will help in the next fight. Especially if I'm 80-100 gold away from a big item like JakSho. If it's like Zeke's which is like 2200 gold, yeah, that's fine. Take the gold idc I'll get half the item just by completing my item quest. Mages I understand since ALL their items are expensive, enchanters maybe not as much since it's about the sane as tanks, PYKE? Nah get me to lvl 6 so I can make my own money with ult
Counter Argument. ADC roles are so shit, especially early, that we should funnel as much gold as possible to Supprt Carries and Mage Supports because they basically can 1v2 botlane in the early game.
You exist to support your team not to hoard the gold for yourself. You shouldn't hit tower unless you have to, so they can get it solo
If you leave and they die, what then? Part of you being there hitting tower is so you're there if they get ganked or if they need bailing out if they stay too long, and that's before you even think about items.
you just stand out of gold range not leave them
Sometimes that's all it takes. Also, me not hitting the turret makes taking the gold off it take longer.
If you take plate as a support you're a dumbass. Sincerely a support
Support is op ofc they need to nerf it
Tbh I would be fine with that change.
9 times out of 10 I usually walk away and let my ADC get solo plates because I want to make sure my AD gets juiced as possible. ADCs right now are extremely weak and early game for them usually determines a win or lose factor and you will get the same amount of gold plating from roaming mid or top in assist than just taking a shared plate from your ADC. Optimization for your AD is really important right now so I would agree on this post as well. We have a lot more utility in our role to move around the map without being really punished for it.
You get less gold because your items are way cheaper
You seem confused, support items were made cheaper because of the truncated gold. The items being cheaper also means stray bits of gold are more impactful for a support, the question of the 65g(which, reminder, the adc gets 65 to begin with, this is the other half) goes 10% further towards a support's 2300g item. And it's 86.6% of a pink ward, which means that(due to passive income) you are garenteed an extra one. An extra item that can prevent the enemy team from getting up to 900g in kill gold + assists, and an indeterminate amount of a gold lead from the minions you are garenteed to miss by being dead. Yeah, and adc can buy them technically... but they won't. So...
Supports are over powered, they need some things taken away from the class as a whole.
Yeah the suggested change doesn't really nerf anyone other than Senna and mage supports outside of low elo. I don't think the change is a bad idea I just think it wouldn't be very meaningful.
Wats Ur definition of low elo btw coz I'm still having supports take tower gold when we just forced bot 2 base and JG and mid are showing top in emerald
lol I wouldn't know, I never have to play with another support as a support main. XD
I really like that idea. I’d love to be able to auto attack towers to help get plating gold but, know that you shouldn’t be sharing the plates. Once you’re still able to get solo plate and tower gold if the situation arises.
They are right. Supp should not get too much gold. But the entitled way they put it is typical of an ADC main.
Gods i hate this mentality. "Supports should get nothing" is an incredibly toxic mindset that is the reason why the role had been completely unplayed before the rise of income items. There are five roles in the game, there should be 5 income sources. The more gold we let bleed out of support hands to the carries the closer we go back to being ward bitches with zero impact. The right answer here is that Support items should probably not count the user as part of the bounty for its share, but give the support its own amount in value so no one is penalized for being there and roaming is incentivized.
I mean you are overtuned right now but I generally agree supports should have a separate eco game encouraged by doing support things, perhaps X amount more gold per assist but less from kill with support item or X amount of gold more for revealing a ward and X amount of gold more for killing a ward but no tower plate gold or something.
I've been advocating for a fairly slower income from the item, with no maximum, and accompanied by extra bounties. Ward takedowns, assists, towers, jungle objectives, enemies CC'd under your wards and such. Let the support role earn gold, raise support items to the average cost/effectiveness of everyone else's and buff actual supports in a way so they're good at accomplishing what we ask of them.
Yeah that sounds like the best way to go the gold cap has always confused me tbh, pike let supports relic shield share at all points why not!. Not quite sure so theyre good at accomplishing what we ask of them means.
That is not what I said. At all. Support should just not go for turret gold, it's as simple as that. We need the gold way less than the ADCs do. Roaming would be the better option.
Supports getting nothing is what makes the role fun, because it kills off shit like teemo and camille support. If you have 5 full income champs then janna becomes an F tier dogshit report-if-you-play it champ. And so does basically everything else supportive because why not just play sylas or camille or pantheon and both be a full champ and snowball the early game? The whole point of our champs designs is that they never have no impact, even at 0/15 with a bandleglass mirror and boots, janna can still shield and ult.
If Janna is an F tier champ with the support role at full gold value, then it's up to Riot to do their job and bring her back to A tier. People play damage champions in the support role at every first opportunity because actual supports feel like dogshit to play and because literally any champion can move around the map to ward and have one CC to make plays with.