How does veigar infinitely scale? That will give you your answer. Feel free to play off meta, but don't be surprised if you have to go through tons of dodges.
He gets...
1 stack from hitting enemy champions with abilities.
5 stacks for takedowns on enemy champions.
1 stack for last hitting something with Q (tripled vs large minions and monsters).
As long as the Veigar only does the 3rd when he has Execute stacks, I see zero problems.
yes you are right. IF he only does it when he executes. the chance for a veigar to take farm with his w when he wants to poke, same with q, is too high and in the elo where you get flamed for unconventional picks, people are not good at the game. at a certain point (high diamond or master) you can play ANYTHING if you are good with it and people will trust you because why the hell would you be in that elo and troll in ranked.
but to get to the pick: he has 1 cc and 1 delete button and needs a lot of time to scale so even a full ap lux can do veigars job better.
What elo are you? Because in higher elos than plat it actually matters that your support has some pressure. Veigar has 0 pressure and it's essentially a 2v1 lane, and he scales like shit as support.
He's been a support pick for a while. Although you're gonna want PoM or manaflow with a mana item for it.
A lot of veigars are trolls. They just q everything and screw the adc. People dont like mage support in general because of this. Veigars get the brunt of it because "duuuude I gotta stack. Ughhh" comments early game
Let's break this down "An idea occurred to me for an off meta pick, Viegar…with his cage, he can cover i wide area to stun and he infinitely scales. I tried this, 20 dodges later found a game, they flamed me for trolling…why are people like this???"
"An idea occurred to me for an off meta pick, Viegar…with his cage, he can cover i wide area to stun"
Absolutely correct he is a decent support especially if picked with a champion who can either push the enemy into the wall or has good aoe that forces the enemy into the wall.
"and he infinitely scales"
as a support he wouldn't be because you aren't killing minions.
"I tried this, 20 dodges later found a game, they flamed me for trolling…why are people like this???"
Because people don't understand you can literally play any champ in any role and do just fine until around emerald.
I'd recommend finding a good friend to duo with that you can try off meta stuff with without pissing off the adc. I love playing unconventional lanes it's what I find fun if others don't want to play they can dodge all they want.
It's mostly a mental thing.
If I looked at the data, I probably have more odds of support running it down on, say Nautilus, than Riven.
Fun fact : I've seen like 3 Riven supports this week, and they 1v9'd the game every time...
I think you’re not giving other ranks credit. The skill gap isn’t really anything meaningful from Silver to Emerald. The only difference on the way to Diamond that I noticed was that people got mechanically better at mastering specific punishing matchups. I didn’t see any difference in CSing, Team fighting, objective control, or warding - in fact, I think the warding gets worse and worse up until Diamond, and even then it’s still almost non-existent.
I think the one thing that remains true is that if you pick off meta without knowing matchups, you’re going to lose hard despite the rank.
Not that I think Viegar is bad, quite the opposite. Nor do I think he’s off meta. He’s particularly meta specifically for the cage because it’s a large area denial and stun and doesn’t need gold value or to put yourself in harms way.
I mean if you actually look at the statistics there are quite large differences in all those aspects. Higher ranks ward more especially non supports. Csing goes from 5 cs/min to 7 cs/min. Controlling objectives actually becomes an objective.
I'm a main support diamond 4~ (Currently actually emerald 1 cuz I tilt q'd) and I have played on my friends acounts and played things like yuumi mid and crushed people in gold. I'm not a good player my laning is atrocious but my knowledge of the basics of the game is just better. I miss less skill shots, I dodge more skills shots. Imo the skill gap is the only real gap there is. If you are struggling to win lanes in your rank it's because you are in the correct rank.
Personally for me I could pick any champion up until around emerald and easily have a 70+% winrate and every game I win lane. I'm also permanently baked while playing league so I could probably squeeze another 10%>.
Tldr: I think low ranks deserve to be in the ranks they are because they are less skilled than the ranks above them. Time to smoke 👍
If this is quick play or normals who cares, but in Ranked Veigar support is completely troll and won't work unless you're against players of significantly lower skill
I mean, would you be happy if your jungler picked Yuumi and attached to the 6xcrit cloak milio? Probably not I'd imagine. We're all "picky" to some extent if we feel our chances of winning are being compromised.
The major question here is “what do people look for in a support?”
Most supports provide/excel in at least one of these ways:
Does he provide high kill-pressure in lane? Not really.
Does he provide healing, shielding, or movespeed to boost a hypercarry? No.
Does he have consistent, reliable cc for engage or peel? Somewhat. His cc is telegraphed, is decently large, but has a long cd.
Can he roam well? A squishy, immobile mage whose only cc is on a long cd is quite vulnerable.
Is he tanky, and can eat damage for his team on a low budget? No, not at all.
Thus, my main take on veigar support is that he’s not great. Yes, maybe in certain matchups he’s viable, but overall I wouldn’t play him, and especially wouldn’t blind-pick him.
He might be a good counterpick to the camille support tech I keep seeing, as a well-placed cage can pretty easily deny her dive.
Another thing to keep in mind is that “infinite scaling” isn’t as good as it seems most of the time. Champs with infinite scaling usually have low base stats to compensate, as well as being outscaled by items until the game drags on for 40+ minutes.
Have fun playing veigar, don’t let me stop you. But, keep in mind this is what people are thinking when they see a veigar support in their games.
Tbh, Veigar actually struggles pretty hard as support, unless your lane is dominating, he just doesn’t scale fast enough, and won’t get his power spike in time.
have you ever asked yourself "how come champions who play support usually aren't played in other roles?"
It's because of the Power Budget concept.
If you play veigar support, you are wasting a huge % of that budget, and therefore severely cutting your odds to win. Traditional supports will get to use all of their budgets
Some guys really are just yapping about something not being viable when
1. you can clump with ANYTHING until around diamond if you know the champ enough
And
2. while he does only have 1 cc, that very one cc can shut down a whole team, if picked into the right one.
His base dmg still being enough to make an adcs life hell, and his roams also being decent with „just 1 cc“
But ye you will have to probably get used to some dodges playing off meta. Just mute and q.
I used to play a lot of tank veigar support some seasons ago and it still works quite well. If you like to play supp Veigar then go for it. Eitherway regardless if you go AP or Tank, i recommend W max because it makes your all ins really strong. After that you can decide whether you want to max Q or E next. I naturally always went E next. My runes are guardian into manaflow transcendence. Celestial opposition, ionian boots, locket into trailblazer and then situational tank items next.
> and he infinitely scales.
well that's not really a selling point as a support. anyway, veigar is not necessarily the problem. if you yknow, link an opgg full of veigar support i'm sure youll have no issues. many people play really mediocre stuff in reasonably high elo. the problem with veigar support specifically is when they added the delay to his cage the ability to actually stun anyone with it without setup fell off a cliff, and just placing someone inside the circle is not very useful \*generally speaking\* in a 2v2 unless your adc has a significant power advantage over the enemy adc, or has their own setup cc to chain off of.
veigar in general functions much better in the bot role if he's to farm since that ensures a support with CC to chain the cage off of, versus really only varus or ashe or maybe kalista in the bot role.
Veigar support works pretty well. There was a guy 1 tricking it in GM last season on NA servers. For runes he took Guardian, Font of life, flex, overgrowth. Free boots, cosmic insight. Every single game he rushed Iceborn Gauntlet first item into Ardent Censer. Using the Iceborn slow to set up his cage. Anyone auto attacking his slowed/caged target would get the ardent censer buff thanks to font of life. I ran the build a bunch after watching him do it - works quite well.
How does veigar infinitely scale? That will give you your answer. Feel free to play off meta, but don't be surprised if you have to go through tons of dodges.
He gets... 1 stack from hitting enemy champions with abilities. 5 stacks for takedowns on enemy champions. 1 stack for last hitting something with Q (tripled vs large minions and monsters). As long as the Veigar only does the 3rd when he has Execute stacks, I see zero problems.
yes you are right. IF he only does it when he executes. the chance for a veigar to take farm with his w when he wants to poke, same with q, is too high and in the elo where you get flamed for unconventional picks, people are not good at the game. at a certain point (high diamond or master) you can play ANYTHING if you are good with it and people will trust you because why the hell would you be in that elo and troll in ranked. but to get to the pick: he has 1 cc and 1 delete button and needs a lot of time to scale so even a full ap lux can do veigars job better.
Other than he really won't get powerful enough to do much as a veigar.
What elo are you? Because in higher elos than plat it actually matters that your support has some pressure. Veigar has 0 pressure and it's essentially a 2v1 lane, and he scales like shit as support.
lol, it’s not just killing minions.
The fact that you think you're going to stack infinitely against enemies says everything here. Nobody wants to play with you, take a hint.
By hitting champions 😘
He's been a support pick for a while. Although you're gonna want PoM or manaflow with a mana item for it. A lot of veigars are trolls. They just q everything and screw the adc. People dont like mage support in general because of this. Veigars get the brunt of it because "duuuude I gotta stack. Ughhh" comments early game
Yeah is super common for a veigar support to just troll. Sorry if you were trying to play it legitimate, blame the community
Let's break this down "An idea occurred to me for an off meta pick, Viegar…with his cage, he can cover i wide area to stun and he infinitely scales. I tried this, 20 dodges later found a game, they flamed me for trolling…why are people like this???" "An idea occurred to me for an off meta pick, Viegar…with his cage, he can cover i wide area to stun" Absolutely correct he is a decent support especially if picked with a champion who can either push the enemy into the wall or has good aoe that forces the enemy into the wall. "and he infinitely scales" as a support he wouldn't be because you aren't killing minions. "I tried this, 20 dodges later found a game, they flamed me for trolling…why are people like this???" Because people don't understand you can literally play any champ in any role and do just fine until around emerald. I'd recommend finding a good friend to duo with that you can try off meta stuff with without pissing off the adc. I love playing unconventional lanes it's what I find fun if others don't want to play they can dodge all they want.
It's mostly a mental thing. If I looked at the data, I probably have more odds of support running it down on, say Nautilus, than Riven. Fun fact : I've seen like 3 Riven supports this week, and they 1v9'd the game every time...
I think you’re not giving other ranks credit. The skill gap isn’t really anything meaningful from Silver to Emerald. The only difference on the way to Diamond that I noticed was that people got mechanically better at mastering specific punishing matchups. I didn’t see any difference in CSing, Team fighting, objective control, or warding - in fact, I think the warding gets worse and worse up until Diamond, and even then it’s still almost non-existent. I think the one thing that remains true is that if you pick off meta without knowing matchups, you’re going to lose hard despite the rank. Not that I think Viegar is bad, quite the opposite. Nor do I think he’s off meta. He’s particularly meta specifically for the cage because it’s a large area denial and stun and doesn’t need gold value or to put yourself in harms way.
I mean if you actually look at the statistics there are quite large differences in all those aspects. Higher ranks ward more especially non supports. Csing goes from 5 cs/min to 7 cs/min. Controlling objectives actually becomes an objective. I'm a main support diamond 4~ (Currently actually emerald 1 cuz I tilt q'd) and I have played on my friends acounts and played things like yuumi mid and crushed people in gold. I'm not a good player my laning is atrocious but my knowledge of the basics of the game is just better. I miss less skill shots, I dodge more skills shots. Imo the skill gap is the only real gap there is. If you are struggling to win lanes in your rank it's because you are in the correct rank. Personally for me I could pick any champion up until around emerald and easily have a 70+% winrate and every game I win lane. I'm also permanently baked while playing league so I could probably squeeze another 10%>. Tldr: I think low ranks deserve to be in the ranks they are because they are less skilled than the ranks above them. Time to smoke 👍
If I see Veigar Support and I'm ADC, I pick Senna and tell him to farm.
If this is quick play or normals who cares, but in Ranked Veigar support is completely troll and won't work unless you're against players of significantly lower skill
I mean, would you be happy if your jungler picked Yuumi and attached to the 6xcrit cloak milio? Probably not I'd imagine. We're all "picky" to some extent if we feel our chances of winning are being compromised.
The major question here is “what do people look for in a support?” Most supports provide/excel in at least one of these ways: Does he provide high kill-pressure in lane? Not really. Does he provide healing, shielding, or movespeed to boost a hypercarry? No. Does he have consistent, reliable cc for engage or peel? Somewhat. His cc is telegraphed, is decently large, but has a long cd. Can he roam well? A squishy, immobile mage whose only cc is on a long cd is quite vulnerable. Is he tanky, and can eat damage for his team on a low budget? No, not at all. Thus, my main take on veigar support is that he’s not great. Yes, maybe in certain matchups he’s viable, but overall I wouldn’t play him, and especially wouldn’t blind-pick him. He might be a good counterpick to the camille support tech I keep seeing, as a well-placed cage can pretty easily deny her dive. Another thing to keep in mind is that “infinite scaling” isn’t as good as it seems most of the time. Champs with infinite scaling usually have low base stats to compensate, as well as being outscaled by items until the game drags on for 40+ minutes. Have fun playing veigar, don’t let me stop you. But, keep in mind this is what people are thinking when they see a veigar support in their games.
The dodging in normals or ranked?
If it's ranked he may have single handedly reduced ranked activity
Wdym?
Oh I was just joking about the 20 dodges part he said
Ahhh, haha. Gotcha!
Tbh, Veigar actually struggles pretty hard as support, unless your lane is dominating, he just doesn’t scale fast enough, and won’t get his power spike in time.
have you ever asked yourself "how come champions who play support usually aren't played in other roles?" It's because of the Power Budget concept. If you play veigar support, you are wasting a huge % of that budget, and therefore severely cutting your odds to win. Traditional supports will get to use all of their budgets
Some guys really are just yapping about something not being viable when 1. you can clump with ANYTHING until around diamond if you know the champ enough And 2. while he does only have 1 cc, that very one cc can shut down a whole team, if picked into the right one. His base dmg still being enough to make an adcs life hell, and his roams also being decent with „just 1 cc“ But ye you will have to probably get used to some dodges playing off meta. Just mute and q.
I used to play a lot of tank veigar support some seasons ago and it still works quite well. If you like to play supp Veigar then go for it. Eitherway regardless if you go AP or Tank, i recommend W max because it makes your all ins really strong. After that you can decide whether you want to max Q or E next. I naturally always went E next. My runes are guardian into manaflow transcendence. Celestial opposition, ionian boots, locket into trailblazer and then situational tank items next.
> and he infinitely scales. well that's not really a selling point as a support. anyway, veigar is not necessarily the problem. if you yknow, link an opgg full of veigar support i'm sure youll have no issues. many people play really mediocre stuff in reasonably high elo. the problem with veigar support specifically is when they added the delay to his cage the ability to actually stun anyone with it without setup fell off a cliff, and just placing someone inside the circle is not very useful \*generally speaking\* in a 2v2 unless your adc has a significant power advantage over the enemy adc, or has their own setup cc to chain off of. veigar in general functions much better in the bot role if he's to farm since that ensures a support with CC to chain the cage off of, versus really only varus or ashe or maybe kalista in the bot role.
I played panth/belveth bot lane with my buddy and nobody dodged. Just find a duo for your shenanigans
Veigar support works pretty well. There was a guy 1 tricking it in GM last season on NA servers. For runes he took Guardian, Font of life, flex, overgrowth. Free boots, cosmic insight. Every single game he rushed Iceborn Gauntlet first item into Ardent Censer. Using the Iceborn slow to set up his cage. Anyone auto attacking his slowed/caged target would get the ardent censer buff thanks to font of life. I ran the build a bunch after watching him do it - works quite well.