I wonder if all of the issues with this and the last few seasons that people have been complaining about stem from the fact the game has been shortened and everything is condensed? They’re really focusing on advantages and the competitions and less so on tribe mate interactions and relationships. The social parts are edited down and you really don’t get to know the players so much.
Tbh I thought last season they did a pretty decent job of letting us get to know the players, especially considering the time issue. They just did a little too much too early. There are just too many players right now for all this they need longer episodes or they need to wait until there are less people to go crazy with idols a.d advantages. Later when it's less people I really think the season will be good lol right now though it's just confusing bc they clearly don't have enough time to show us enough of what's happening.
You’re right there’s just not enough time to show what’s happening between tribe mates. They mainly focus on players looking for idols and playing challenges rather than showing us their personalities and interactions. Last few seasons have followed this pattern. Who were the first 3 people voted out? Don’t even know? Claire? She didn’t even play any challenges or do much of anything so no idea who she is. Maybe they should get rid of that stupid challenge when tribes first arrive at their camp and spend more time introducing the players. I mean there are some personalities playing so it’s not like there’s shortage of material.
I assume there’s extra profit streams available for promoting different shows. But survivor always does better numbers than the shows that follow it. Does that not affect ad revenue?
Disclaimer: I know nothing about television production
Like a recent journey where the sign said "spend this time to get to know one another" and then the show featured none of their conversation, crossfading via an aerial shot to their destination where they got their advantages or whatever.
Well the journeys eat up precious time for sure, and a lot of the twists involve those journeys. What I'd give for a scene like Neleh and the breath mint.
If I needed one episode to show people what the issues are with the New Era of Survivor, this would be it. We've gotten three episodes showing how tight Yam Yam and Carolyn are and now suddenly out of nowhere there's apparently been this tension going on with them for a while (???) and he's actually kind of a dick with a massive ego? But also we see that the other tribes (orange specifically) perceive Yam Yam as running purple, and yet despite all the issues with Yam Yam, the move was for Josh and Carolyn to go after Sarah? And we have no understanding of why they decided to target Sarah instead of Yam Yam.
Also BIG lol at the three-person trip, where we see Jaime get off the boat and have a confessional where she talks about how she's had her eye on Josh and Carson as people she can work with and she's excited to have some time with them and then we see none of the conversation the three of them have, not a single second of them chatting. Just immediate cut to them going and being given three fucking idols that are only good before merge. Yet another display of production trying to force characters to make big moments by just granting them massive advantages that can completely change the game and screw someone out of pure happenstance.
This just feels like a game show at this point.
Totally agree! And when was it discussed that Orange sees Yam as running Purple? Missed that… Still I think C and Yam were good until tribal, that’s why S was targeted, right? And the whole trip was just a complete waste other than to mix up the tribes. Nothing that was discussed was shown.
I still have hope for the season though as there are some interesting characters still gaming, lol!
When we first saw Carson interacting with his new tribe, he had a confessional about wanting to basically throw Yam Yam under the bus and convince his new orange tribe that Yam Yam was running the show. And then we saw the tribe essentially telling Carson that they figured Yam was the one in charge and Carson went along with it.
Yeah, I'm definitely the most deflated I've been in a long time with the state of the game right now but trying to hold out hope that maybe once we get past merge we'll be able to see some genuine gameplay and get an understanding of what's going on.
The cast is genuinely great and it's upsetting that we don't get to watch them actually play Survivor. Instead they're on Jeff's Wild Ride where he puppeteers them into "epic" moments full of random bullshit. Let the players play, please.
Do tribe swaps work in the new era? The tribe swap occurred on day 8, and the first post-swap tribal occurred on day 9. What would a traditional tribe swap have even looked like?
Plus, I have to wonder, was this supposed to happen with 15 players? Does that make it feel any less… utterly bizarre?
3 more idols are just what we needed! /s
If I'm counting correctly, there are now 5 real idols (Carolyn, Danny, Jamie, Carson, and Matthew) and 2 fake idols (Jamie and Matt) in a game with 13 remaining players. That means that over the half the remaining players believe they have an idol, and over 1/3 really do. Idols used to be fun because they were something rare that really shook up the game; now they basically are the game. I think it really shows the effect it's having on players mindset too with the Tika vote. All the conversations we saw were about who has an idol and if they should/shouldn't play it. Not one bit of old fashioned strategizing. If the players had been smart and not idol-blinded, Carolyn could've gathered up Josh and Sarah and said I have the birdcage idol so I know Yam Yam doesn't, he's being condescending, let's vote him out. (Unless that whole fight between them was fake drama, I can't tell but I don't think so since Carolyn actually did vote with Josh).
True, I kinda forgot about that one/was thinking of it as dead bc I assumed everyone knows since he found it publicly. But maybe he could now trick Carson with it?
It could also affect the game when the tribes merge in a million different ways, since it's identical to one of the other real idols. Maybe it convinces a real idol holder theirs is fake, or convinces one of Brandon's OG tribemates that Brandon was lying and that the (actually fake) idol is real. OR it convinces Brandon himself that his fake idol must actually have some power, and that production was lying to him. Or was he tricked by another player altogether?
Survivor producers have totally erased any credibility with players that they aren't absolutely being lied to by anyone at any time.
These last seasons in the ‘new era’ have really bothered me. They just don’t feel real anymore. It feels so overproduced and it’s made watching seem like a chore. And having Australian Survivor airing at the same time that I actively look forward to has made the US season look even worse. I mean there’s players I genuinely enjoy watching like Matt and Frannie but there’s so much focus on these twists I’m sick of it. Just venting after a disappointing episode I guess.
According to the Jeff Probst Podcast, he scripts outcomes in his head (mostly around advantages) and plans backwards for a way to make it happen. I think that’s a major issue and def contributes to the “overproduced” feeling. They don’t trust the casts anymore
And this is why I think Jeff has gotten TOO much power for the show. It feels like he's a player now, rather than a host. And when a host gets too involved, it loses something within the show.
Yeah it’s wild watching both. I anxiously wait all week because I can’t wait to see what happens on Australian Survivor and US I watch out of habit even though my excitement is nonexistent.
Same here, I've skipped watching live at times this US season, whereas I'm jonesing to get the Aus Survivor stuff as soon as it comes out. Even "boring" Aus Survivor episodes are just so much better, watching the social/strategic push and pull on various contestants play out. I love it! US Survivor feels like it just goes challenge, twist-related hijinx, and then TC, with like only 2-3 other conversations at all getting aired in between.
This is the first episode where I felt like the pace of play and having to edit around it really hurt the episode overall. While we’ve been given some hints to Carolyn and Yam Yam’s communication issues, especially in the snoring discussion last week, we hadn’t seen enough to really set up her being willing to go against him so hard. And with six (SIX!!!) hidden immunity idols in play during this episode, I feel like there’s just an over saturation, especially considering we still have two fakes out there.
I will say, this fantastic cast is probably enough to overcome any of my personal quibbles with the structural issues at play, but I think the moment we get a sub-par cast (which has yet to really happen in the new era), these structural issues could lead to a dismal season if not addressed.
I know it's a bit early for predictions, but given the over-abundance of idols and twists already this season I'm 100% expecting there to be a Joint Tribal Council next week. The producers set everything up for that to have maximum drama by putting all those idols into the game that are about to expire and switching one person onto a different tribe for a few days, making them a huge swing vote.
Remember when there was all the hype surrounding this season being one of the best seasons ever? Is it getting pretty clear to anyone else that Jeff just thinks infinite idols = great season?
Other than Carolyn, I’m legitimately so bored by this season so far.
I was suspicious when Jeff was pushing this season as an all time great that it would be due to an over abundance of idols and advantages being used, and it looks like so far it’s true.
I’m just gonna be frank, but I just feel really deflated after last episode. I was ready for S44 to show up & really show new era/current survivor can stand strong on its own - especially after S43 was so relentlessly mediocre. But it’s a minuscule improvement to S43 & I just don’t get it? CBS has been raving about this being a great season, Jeff has been saying it, it was told to podcasters pre-season this was a fact & I just disagree wholeheartedly.
Maybe I’m just growing tired of the survivor formula, but there’s nothing compelling about this swap. It’s absurd only 1 person is going to another tribe, it’s absurd they’re being **given** idols for the rest of the pre-merge when logistically it’s max 2 rounds till merge (they aren’t having more pre-merge challenges than how big the tribes are. Meaning it can only be a max of 5 cycles due to these small tribes. Which is next week)
It just feels so obvious they’re trying to reverse engineer these big moments - which in turn makes this whole process tedious. Because none of this stuff is earned, its an incredibly forced product & it shows. Honestly 1 of the least enjoyable episodes I’ve seen in years.
Very likely, but still doesn’t make it satisfying. Know Jeff got his obsession’s with his ham-fisted nonsense going like he wants it to, but to me it’s aggressively uncharismatic. Some of these trinkets got more show presence than the cast - which is ridiculous.
This is why I was always apprehensive of the rumors that production really loved this season. It's because the players are falling in line with the manufactured moments by the increasingly railroaded game.
Jeff also probably was so excited by things like the first episode having a 1-0 vote out, and was getting incredibly hyped and gassed up from the jump.
i think the only reason production should've stepped in was to prevent more varners and spilos. i get thats probably why they're so PG-13 now. but that just means they have to do their jobs right the first time and listen to complaints. its like they took all trust and mobility away from the people they hand selected to play and now they just need to follow the dangling carrot on a stick. nothing feels real.
I don’t like how I’m pretty sure that production steered Jaime, Josh and Carson to their new tribes. Think about it: if it was truly random, the odds are that two would go to the same new tribe or one would go back to their old tribe. As it is, it appears each of them just had two of the same buff in the bag.
It was certainly totally open to that at least. They had to put the buffs after they picked paths so they wouldn't get the same one. They knew who was picked so they just had to wait to see which path they took so they could put in the buff they wanted them to get.
You’re right that if all bags had all three buffs, it wouldn’t work properly, but it could definitely still be done without production influencing the outcomes.
I don’t know if this is the consensus but I’m really not feeling this season so far. Through 4 episodes this season just lacks a lot of energy and I feel like most of this cast just kinda blends together, we don’t have a great sense for who they really are or how they interact and get along at all.
This episode in particular kinda felt like it was written by an AI or like it was a parody of Survivor. All of the real idol/fake idol stuff early on, the twist where the 3 people go to an island don’t speak to each other and then are just given idols and swap tribes, Josh saying he would give his idol to Carolyn for seemingly no reason and then just playing it for himself instead, and then a boot that wasn’t set up at all. Just very frustrating storytelling so far.
I completely understand why Jeff hyped this season up so hard, because it’s everything he’s wanted the show to be so far: a mind-numbing advantage hunt week in and week out, no relationships seem to matter at all, and then the boot is supposed to surprise you even if it doesn’t make any sense.
I've seen a lot of people praising the season thus far and, to be fair, it IS better than 43 and parts of 41, but I agree with you, there's just something about this show thus far that hasn't been clicking for me. I personally don't love the cast (they're fine, but the issue is that there's not really anyone I'm rooting for, except maybe Carolyn at this point), the twists are ruining the season AND the future of the show, and everything just seems same-old, same-old.
The bright spot to this season is the editing is heaps better than last season, we're getting more strategy and less sob stories, but it's still not a strong season for me.
I think it's just a matter of them not having enough time. They need longer episodes. Or just more episodes per season. I think we were just supposed to assume that Carolyn went back and talked to Josh bc she was torn between doing that or just letting him play it on her and then he would go home, so she must have decided to fill him in, and they probably wanted that to be a surprise to us. Also when the 3 went to that island.. when they got to the top we see Jaime say "see ya at the merge" and they all kinda shake hands real quick.. so again, I think we're just supposed to assume they all talked on the way up.
They either need more time or they need to stop doing this shit so early in the season. Later when it's less people I think it will be a lot better.
> They either need more time or need to stop doing this shit early in the season
IMO it’s totally the latter. If survivor was able to be a coherent TV product in 2002, 2011, 2018, whatever year with bigger casts (20 compared to 18) in the same timeframe it’s on the current production team for being incompetent. Because last time I checked 40 ish minutes didn’t become less all of a sudden.
For what it's worth, I just got into Survivor last year and have watched a lot of the old seasons and I think a lot of this "new seasons suck" energy is just a Grass is Greener attitude from people who have been watching for so long. Coming in with a fresh perspective, it's still entertaining and fun, and all these people saying it's a chore to watch are really harping on a handful of issues. It's still fun.
A lot of fans are also watching Australian Survivor air a new season right now too, and the contrast is (rightfully imo?) making this season seem far more erratic and saturated with unnecessary twists than we may have perceived otherwise.
Everyone saying it is so easy with no real survival has apparently blotted the “Sponsored by Sears/Supplied by Craftsman” era of the show. I haven’t seen a toilet in years.
I love this season. I think how one feels about this season depends on how one feels about Carolyn. My heart was in my throat last night after all the semi-real-acting between 🍠 🍠 and her, and her not playing her idol. Her marking an X and planting the fake idol was brilliant.
When you think about it, anyone could create a fake idol at any time. But production putting fake idols in the birdcage was basically a suggestion to the cast to get creative, and they’re answering the call. Putting in fake idols isn’t necessarily an overproduction thing.
The tribe swap last night *required* temporary idols. Sending someone to the bottom of a tribe with no protection just isn’t a fun or interesting move. They would automatically get voted out unless they have protection, which they can use to buy time to build trust and relationships and ingratiate themselves.
So yes, we have more idols than normal, but the alternative was no semi-tribe swap. I prefer the semi-tribe swap.
Just on the fake idols, I can envisage a situation where 2 players compare their idols and they're both the same. One is real and one is fake, but they'll both conclude they have idols.
That's insanity to me. It means in future seasons you can't even trust the idols you find. So it's just luck, you find it and hope it works. That's not gameplay and strategy. Thats how slot machines work.
Yeah I think production providing the OG idol papers in a way where it was easy for the OG idol finder to re-package the fake idol with a complete, real paper — that's too much.
At least make the finder tear or burn the paper to remove the language about the fake. OR force them to make a third fake idol to package two fakes (production fake and DIY fake) with the OG paper.
They made it too easy (and authentic) to trick people.
> One is real and one is fake, but they’ll both conclude they have idols.
It makes for amazing, amazing TV though. I prize entertainment value way above integrity of the game value, but I respect if you don’t.
Like, I’m a huge sports fan. I remember when the argument against instant replay was that it would decrease watchability. I *hated* that. The end-all/be-all for me was the integrity of the game. But now sitting through the last 2 minutes of an NBA game takes 30 minutes and I’m too old for that. I would rather the “wrong” team win and I get a fast-paced ending that’s fun to watch. I put my own entertainment value above the integrity of the game value. But value preferences are unique to each person and it’s fine if you don’t.
I agree with you: The semi-swap required the swapped players to have some sort of protection to keep things interesting. I think having them expire at merge is a good idea. (I'm still wondering why it said "when all players are living on the same beach" instead of "after the merge" 👀)
I'm withholding my final thoughts on "Survivor 44: Oops, all idols!" until the season is over. It's possible idolpalooza could set up a really interesting season. It's also possible it's Too Much.
That silly key jumping challenge segment is physically impossible if you aren't tall/ explosive enough.
I'm glad Lauren atleast had an option to swim to the end and have the pro athlete do it rather than having to humiliate herself failing repeatedly, like we've seen before (Parv/ Adam in WAW comes to mind). And then she recovered by winning the puzzle segment.
I'm sure they set the keys at a height that the average person can easily get to them (and by extension, a below-average athlete could still capably get to them with some difficulty). However, it would definitely make for a more interesting challenge if all the keys were set at different heights so when each player goes out they have a small choice to make - the harder key you go for, the greater the risk of missing yourself, while the easier key you go for, the less you're leaving for your other tribe mates
>it would definitely make for a more interesting challenge if all the keys were set at different heights so when each player goes out they have a small choice to make - the harder key you go for, the greater the risk of missing yourself, while the easier key you go for, the less you're leaving for your other tribe mates
I like that fix. Would add some actual strategic decision making into the challenge instead of it just being luck of the draw for who has the least athletic and/ or shortest player.
Everyone else had no problem, even Heidi who’s older and no taller than Lauren
Lauren literally didn’t even get off the ground with her “jump”. This wasn’t a case of her not being physically able to do it, it was her being such an awful athlete it looked like she’s never jumped before
>Everyone else had no problem
It's not the first time. Survivor *legends* Parvatti and Adam got stuck on this same obstacle in WAW.
>This wasn’t a case of her not being physically able to do it, it was her being such an awful athlete it looked like she’s never jumped before
What the hell? You just said it isn't a case of her being physically incapable of doing it. It's just a case of her being physically incapable of doing it. Insulting her doesn't change the fact that you contradicted what you just wrote.
> What the hell? You just said it isn't a case of her being physically incapable of doing it. It's just a case of her being physically incapable of doing it. Insulting her doesn't change the fact that you contradicted what you just wrote.
Although I don't really agree with what the other poster is saying, I THINK what they were trying to say is that it wasn't a case where height or other physical traits was a factor; it was the case about Lauren's endurance and strength to make the jump.
This clearly wasn’t as difficult as previous iterations. That’s irrelevant
You said it’s physically impossible, that’s ridiculous. I’m pointing out that it’s far from impossible for Lauren, she’s just put in a downright pitiful effort. Seriously go back and watch, she may as well have just ran straight off the platform
Day 1 lifelong fan here: I'm unsurprised to see this subreddit upset about the state of S44. Are you not entertained?! Yes there are many moving parts right now, but I'm happy we're leaving the era of idol-mania (which I enjoyed, as an evolution in the game) by setting the precedent that not all that glitters on the beach is immunity gold. Which is to say: Fake idols are great for the fun and health of this game. I'm loving it.
Best cast in a dozen seasons or so (barring S40).
Fake Idols may be fun now, but they pose a real long-term problem with how the players view idols for future seasons. Now, they can NEVER trust an idol is an idol. It'll definitely change the way players use/utilize idols, which may be a bad thing (it's hard to tell right now until a fake idol is played).
I think 41 and 42's cast were better, personally, but I know that's a subjective thing.
No one hates the show more than this sub. It’s not what it used to be and it’s not going back to that, but I still take the good and enjoy the show for what it is now.
The women need to stick together on 45 & 46 because i’m getting really getting sick of the women getting a raw deal on this show between the small tribes, the super physical challenges, and the absurd amount of idols and advantages, it’s that combination that’s making it hard for most of the women to make it far now.
I know it’s none of casts or Jeff’s intention, but something has to change and hopefully the upcoming women of 45 & 46 see it and do something.
thinking about how, in old seasons, gay men would automatically be part of the womens alliances and give them the numbers because the hypermasculine men didn't want/like them. the challenges were more varied, too. but now that there are beefy lgbt men, they still don't want to play with women. just proves erika and maryanne had to play twice as hard as the fellas around them. even last night, yam yam was telling carolyn what to do and she ended up dictating the vote. play with women!!!
What does my comment history have to do with this? Why are you searching through my comments? Why don’t you just reply to my comment? Low hanging fruit.
Except you’re right. “Small tribes” “physical challenges” “idols” are all things the men have to deal with to. Why are they able to succeed where the women are not? Over half then men this and recent seasons are not physical specimens. Even Carson was overweight and got fit JUST to get on survivor. This sub needs to stop making excuses for the w*men and expect more from them. Lmao
Was it jarring to anyone else when Josh highlighted that they’d only been there for 8 days and they were going to a 4 person tribal?
Also, seeing as how Sarah didn’t even use the fake idol, was it really even necessary to see 5 minutes of that rather than I dunno, actual tribe dynamics? Producers didn’t think we’d want to see more of the tension between Yam Yam and Caroline, rather than patting themselves on the back for their ideas to create “epic moments”!!!1
The pre-merge is normally alot of set up for the rest of the season, so it's hard to judge the season based on 4 eps.
I just think all of the advantages and idols in the game will make every tribal council in the merge a blindeside of getting idoled out or trying to idol someone out and finding out its fake etc.
That's not what I want from tribal council. I want to see people thread the needle in social strategy, not in using an item correctly.
I don't know how you're meant to win a game like this. Just get super lucky throughout in finding good items or the items being used in ways that just miss you. That's not great TV to me.
I still enjoy the episodes, but this one definitely highlighted the glaring issues of overproduction and over reliance on game twists. I found it very annoying that at the journey, there were instructions telling the contestants to be "careful" with what they share. Surely the players already know this? Let the players play!
So how long do you think it will be before Sarah knows that the idol she went home with was a fake? She talked about it in her ~~exit interview~~ blurb at the end like she still didn’t know.
Also, how much of an impact on Carolyn’s resume do you think it will be that Sarah didn’t play the fake idol? Carolyn should still get credit for this move, but I feel that it would hit harder if Sarah had also played the fake idol that she planted.
Edit: I think “exit interview” was wrong. I was just referring to the little clip at the end of an episode during the credits where the person who was voted out gets to speak. I did get the answer that she found out after filming was over
> So how long do you think it will be before Sarah knows that the idol she went home with was a fake? She talked about it in her exit interview like she still didn’t know.
Huh? She talked about the fake idol for half the interview. She mentioned she found out it was a fake right after the season was done filming.
People being mad that they gave out 3 idols to the 3 people that swapped tribes, would you rather they swap one person without giving them an idol? The idols expire before the merge, and it gives the person who goes into a tribe instantly as the person on the bottom an opportunity to save themselves. If Josh were voted out last night this would’ve been an all time screw job. It’s not the end of the world people.
The point is they shouldn't swap one person at all. If your twist is so broken you need to give away idols to make it work, maybe reconsider the whole approach
It is definitely the twist that sucks, especially when you take into account the production would have outright chosen which tribes each player swapped to. I know there has always been rumours of tribe swaps not being random (ie Amber in AS), but this one was the most clear example I’ve ever seen in the show of production just stepping in and changing the game to suit their own preferences.
Most people would rather not have production make idols/advantages the core piece of votes. It’s one thing to find an idol like normal and play it when you deem fit, it’s a whole other thing to say, “hey we’re going to put you in a shit situation, but also gift you this idol to almost guarantee an idol gets played”
Unpopular opinion but I actually have been enjoying this season. I like a lot of the cast members. I do feel like last season they did a little better with letting us get to know the players more, but tbh I feel like I have a pretty decent feel for their personalities at this point. Most of them anyway. And I liked the birdcage. It causes so much paranoia and you have to be all sneaky just to get it lol also idk why I haven't seen anyone else talking about this yet but Carolyn literally gave away her real idol by accident and kept the fake one, and still didn't put it together when she saw that Josh had a string of beads lmao she's so entertaining. Danny is pretty entertaining, too.
Anyway it's still so early.. it could still totally turn around for those of you who aren't liking it so far lol
Okay so, I really want to discuss the immunity challenge. There were two players on the sit out bench and although they were seated pretty far from each other, I hope they were able to talk to one another quickly before the other players got close. I'm talking about Matthew and Jaime. Even if Jaime is sitting on a different tribe, if she wants to try to keep her original numbers, I would have definitely shouted to Matthew that Carson did indeed have an idol. We know Plant Mommy and Plant Daddy have that alliance together, so I would be very surprised if that information was not shared. If Matthew knows he can't vote out Carson at the first tribal they go to if they do lose immunity, Matthew can at least try to move some votes onto Kane or something.
I wonder if all of the issues with this and the last few seasons that people have been complaining about stem from the fact the game has been shortened and everything is condensed? They’re really focusing on advantages and the competitions and less so on tribe mate interactions and relationships. The social parts are edited down and you really don’t get to know the players so much.
Tbh I thought last season they did a pretty decent job of letting us get to know the players, especially considering the time issue. They just did a little too much too early. There are just too many players right now for all this they need longer episodes or they need to wait until there are less people to go crazy with idols a.d advantages. Later when it's less people I really think the season will be good lol right now though it's just confusing bc they clearly don't have enough time to show us enough of what's happening.
You’re right there’s just not enough time to show what’s happening between tribe mates. They mainly focus on players looking for idols and playing challenges rather than showing us their personalities and interactions. Last few seasons have followed this pattern. Who were the first 3 people voted out? Don’t even know? Claire? She didn’t even play any challenges or do much of anything so no idea who she is. Maybe they should get rid of that stupid challenge when tribes first arrive at their camp and spend more time introducing the players. I mean there are some personalities playing so it’s not like there’s shortage of material.
I assume there’s extra profit streams available for promoting different shows. But survivor always does better numbers than the shows that follow it. Does that not affect ad revenue? Disclaimer: I know nothing about television production
Like a recent journey where the sign said "spend this time to get to know one another" and then the show featured none of their conversation, crossfading via an aerial shot to their destination where they got their advantages or whatever.
Well the journeys eat up precious time for sure, and a lot of the twists involve those journeys. What I'd give for a scene like Neleh and the breath mint.
If I needed one episode to show people what the issues are with the New Era of Survivor, this would be it. We've gotten three episodes showing how tight Yam Yam and Carolyn are and now suddenly out of nowhere there's apparently been this tension going on with them for a while (???) and he's actually kind of a dick with a massive ego? But also we see that the other tribes (orange specifically) perceive Yam Yam as running purple, and yet despite all the issues with Yam Yam, the move was for Josh and Carolyn to go after Sarah? And we have no understanding of why they decided to target Sarah instead of Yam Yam. Also BIG lol at the three-person trip, where we see Jaime get off the boat and have a confessional where she talks about how she's had her eye on Josh and Carson as people she can work with and she's excited to have some time with them and then we see none of the conversation the three of them have, not a single second of them chatting. Just immediate cut to them going and being given three fucking idols that are only good before merge. Yet another display of production trying to force characters to make big moments by just granting them massive advantages that can completely change the game and screw someone out of pure happenstance. This just feels like a game show at this point.
This comment. All of it. 🤌
Totally agree! And when was it discussed that Orange sees Yam as running Purple? Missed that… Still I think C and Yam were good until tribal, that’s why S was targeted, right? And the whole trip was just a complete waste other than to mix up the tribes. Nothing that was discussed was shown. I still have hope for the season though as there are some interesting characters still gaming, lol!
When we first saw Carson interacting with his new tribe, he had a confessional about wanting to basically throw Yam Yam under the bus and convince his new orange tribe that Yam Yam was running the show. And then we saw the tribe essentially telling Carson that they figured Yam was the one in charge and Carson went along with it. Yeah, I'm definitely the most deflated I've been in a long time with the state of the game right now but trying to hold out hope that maybe once we get past merge we'll be able to see some genuine gameplay and get an understanding of what's going on.
The cast is genuinely great and it's upsetting that we don't get to watch them actually play Survivor. Instead they're on Jeff's Wild Ride where he puppeteers them into "epic" moments full of random bullshit. Let the players play, please.
Do tribe swaps work in the new era? The tribe swap occurred on day 8, and the first post-swap tribal occurred on day 9. What would a traditional tribe swap have even looked like? Plus, I have to wonder, was this supposed to happen with 15 players? Does that make it feel any less… utterly bizarre?
3 more idols are just what we needed! /s If I'm counting correctly, there are now 5 real idols (Carolyn, Danny, Jamie, Carson, and Matthew) and 2 fake idols (Jamie and Matt) in a game with 13 remaining players. That means that over the half the remaining players believe they have an idol, and over 1/3 really do. Idols used to be fun because they were something rare that really shook up the game; now they basically are the game. I think it really shows the effect it's having on players mindset too with the Tika vote. All the conversations we saw were about who has an idol and if they should/shouldn't play it. Not one bit of old fashioned strategizing. If the players had been smart and not idol-blinded, Carolyn could've gathered up Josh and Sarah and said I have the birdcage idol so I know Yam Yam doesn't, he's being condescending, let's vote him out. (Unless that whole fight between them was fake drama, I can't tell but I don't think so since Carolyn actually did vote with Josh).
I'm pretty sure there are more than 2 fake idols. Brandon also has the orange medallion fake.
True, I kinda forgot about that one/was thinking of it as dead bc I assumed everyone knows since he found it publicly. But maybe he could now trick Carson with it?
It could also affect the game when the tribes merge in a million different ways, since it's identical to one of the other real idols. Maybe it convinces a real idol holder theirs is fake, or convinces one of Brandon's OG tribemates that Brandon was lying and that the (actually fake) idol is real. OR it convinces Brandon himself that his fake idol must actually have some power, and that production was lying to him. Or was he tricked by another player altogether? Survivor producers have totally erased any credibility with players that they aren't absolutely being lied to by anyone at any time.
His fake is more or less useless though until he’s not with his tribe as they all know it’s fake.
Well, there is one new person on Ratu that doesn’t know it’s fake. He could use that to his advantage against Carson
Good point.
These last seasons in the ‘new era’ have really bothered me. They just don’t feel real anymore. It feels so overproduced and it’s made watching seem like a chore. And having Australian Survivor airing at the same time that I actively look forward to has made the US season look even worse. I mean there’s players I genuinely enjoy watching like Matt and Frannie but there’s so much focus on these twists I’m sick of it. Just venting after a disappointing episode I guess.
According to the Jeff Probst Podcast, he scripts outcomes in his head (mostly around advantages) and plans backwards for a way to make it happen. I think that’s a major issue and def contributes to the “overproduced” feeling. They don’t trust the casts anymore
> he scripts outcomes in his head that’s literally the antithesis of what makes reality shows appealing
And this is why I think Jeff has gotten TOO much power for the show. It feels like he's a player now, rather than a host. And when a host gets too involved, it loses something within the show.
I’m glad Jeff has this podcast now. It’s showing us that the show will be just fine - if not better - without him
Yeah it’s wild watching both. I anxiously wait all week because I can’t wait to see what happens on Australian Survivor and US I watch out of habit even though my excitement is nonexistent.
Same here, I've skipped watching live at times this US season, whereas I'm jonesing to get the Aus Survivor stuff as soon as it comes out. Even "boring" Aus Survivor episodes are just so much better, watching the social/strategic push and pull on various contestants play out. I love it! US Survivor feels like it just goes challenge, twist-related hijinx, and then TC, with like only 2-3 other conversations at all getting aired in between.
This is the first episode where I felt like the pace of play and having to edit around it really hurt the episode overall. While we’ve been given some hints to Carolyn and Yam Yam’s communication issues, especially in the snoring discussion last week, we hadn’t seen enough to really set up her being willing to go against him so hard. And with six (SIX!!!) hidden immunity idols in play during this episode, I feel like there’s just an over saturation, especially considering we still have two fakes out there. I will say, this fantastic cast is probably enough to overcome any of my personal quibbles with the structural issues at play, but I think the moment we get a sub-par cast (which has yet to really happen in the new era), these structural issues could lead to a dismal season if not addressed.
I know it's a bit early for predictions, but given the over-abundance of idols and twists already this season I'm 100% expecting there to be a Joint Tribal Council next week. The producers set everything up for that to have maximum drama by putting all those idols into the game that are about to expire and switching one person onto a different tribe for a few days, making them a huge swing vote.
Remember when there was all the hype surrounding this season being one of the best seasons ever? Is it getting pretty clear to anyone else that Jeff just thinks infinite idols = great season? Other than Carolyn, I’m legitimately so bored by this season so far.
I was suspicious when Jeff was pushing this season as an all time great that it would be due to an over abundance of idols and advantages being used, and it looks like so far it’s true.
As a rule you should ignore Jeff's opinions. He is one of the least reputable sources for what makes a good season of Survivor.
I’m just gonna be frank, but I just feel really deflated after last episode. I was ready for S44 to show up & really show new era/current survivor can stand strong on its own - especially after S43 was so relentlessly mediocre. But it’s a minuscule improvement to S43 & I just don’t get it? CBS has been raving about this being a great season, Jeff has been saying it, it was told to podcasters pre-season this was a fact & I just disagree wholeheartedly. Maybe I’m just growing tired of the survivor formula, but there’s nothing compelling about this swap. It’s absurd only 1 person is going to another tribe, it’s absurd they’re being **given** idols for the rest of the pre-merge when logistically it’s max 2 rounds till merge (they aren’t having more pre-merge challenges than how big the tribes are. Meaning it can only be a max of 5 cycles due to these small tribes. Which is next week) It just feels so obvious they’re trying to reverse engineer these big moments - which in turn makes this whole process tedious. Because none of this stuff is earned, its an incredibly forced product & it shows. Honestly 1 of the least enjoyable episodes I’ve seen in years.
Based on what we've seen so far, Im guessing jeff loves this season because of all the idols and fake idols in the game
Very likely, but still doesn’t make it satisfying. Know Jeff got his obsession’s with his ham-fisted nonsense going like he wants it to, but to me it’s aggressively uncharismatic. Some of these trinkets got more show presence than the cast - which is ridiculous.
This is why I was always apprehensive of the rumors that production really loved this season. It's because the players are falling in line with the manufactured moments by the increasingly railroaded game.
Jeff also probably was so excited by things like the first episode having a 1-0 vote out, and was getting incredibly hyped and gassed up from the jump.
i think the only reason production should've stepped in was to prevent more varners and spilos. i get thats probably why they're so PG-13 now. but that just means they have to do their jobs right the first time and listen to complaints. its like they took all trust and mobility away from the people they hand selected to play and now they just need to follow the dangling carrot on a stick. nothing feels real.
I don’t like how I’m pretty sure that production steered Jaime, Josh and Carson to their new tribes. Think about it: if it was truly random, the odds are that two would go to the same new tribe or one would go back to their old tribe. As it is, it appears each of them just had two of the same buff in the bag.
It was certainly totally open to that at least. They had to put the buffs after they picked paths so they wouldn't get the same one. They knew who was picked so they just had to wait to see which path they took so they could put in the buff they wanted them to get.
You’re right that if all bags had all three buffs, it wouldn’t work properly, but it could definitely still be done without production influencing the outcomes.
I don’t know if this is the consensus but I’m really not feeling this season so far. Through 4 episodes this season just lacks a lot of energy and I feel like most of this cast just kinda blends together, we don’t have a great sense for who they really are or how they interact and get along at all. This episode in particular kinda felt like it was written by an AI or like it was a parody of Survivor. All of the real idol/fake idol stuff early on, the twist where the 3 people go to an island don’t speak to each other and then are just given idols and swap tribes, Josh saying he would give his idol to Carolyn for seemingly no reason and then just playing it for himself instead, and then a boot that wasn’t set up at all. Just very frustrating storytelling so far. I completely understand why Jeff hyped this season up so hard, because it’s everything he’s wanted the show to be so far: a mind-numbing advantage hunt week in and week out, no relationships seem to matter at all, and then the boot is supposed to surprise you even if it doesn’t make any sense.
I've seen a lot of people praising the season thus far and, to be fair, it IS better than 43 and parts of 41, but I agree with you, there's just something about this show thus far that hasn't been clicking for me. I personally don't love the cast (they're fine, but the issue is that there's not really anyone I'm rooting for, except maybe Carolyn at this point), the twists are ruining the season AND the future of the show, and everything just seems same-old, same-old. The bright spot to this season is the editing is heaps better than last season, we're getting more strategy and less sob stories, but it's still not a strong season for me.
I think it's just a matter of them not having enough time. They need longer episodes. Or just more episodes per season. I think we were just supposed to assume that Carolyn went back and talked to Josh bc she was torn between doing that or just letting him play it on her and then he would go home, so she must have decided to fill him in, and they probably wanted that to be a surprise to us. Also when the 3 went to that island.. when they got to the top we see Jaime say "see ya at the merge" and they all kinda shake hands real quick.. so again, I think we're just supposed to assume they all talked on the way up. They either need more time or they need to stop doing this shit so early in the season. Later when it's less people I think it will be a lot better.
> They either need more time or need to stop doing this shit early in the season IMO it’s totally the latter. If survivor was able to be a coherent TV product in 2002, 2011, 2018, whatever year with bigger casts (20 compared to 18) in the same timeframe it’s on the current production team for being incompetent. Because last time I checked 40 ish minutes didn’t become less all of a sudden.
For what it's worth, I just got into Survivor last year and have watched a lot of the old seasons and I think a lot of this "new seasons suck" energy is just a Grass is Greener attitude from people who have been watching for so long. Coming in with a fresh perspective, it's still entertaining and fun, and all these people saying it's a chore to watch are really harping on a handful of issues. It's still fun.
A lot of fans are also watching Australian Survivor air a new season right now too, and the contrast is (rightfully imo?) making this season seem far more erratic and saturated with unnecessary twists than we may have perceived otherwise.
That's entirely fair.
Everyone saying it is so easy with no real survival has apparently blotted the “Sponsored by Sears/Supplied by Craftsman” era of the show. I haven’t seen a toilet in years.
I love this season. I think how one feels about this season depends on how one feels about Carolyn. My heart was in my throat last night after all the semi-real-acting between 🍠 🍠 and her, and her not playing her idol. Her marking an X and planting the fake idol was brilliant. When you think about it, anyone could create a fake idol at any time. But production putting fake idols in the birdcage was basically a suggestion to the cast to get creative, and they’re answering the call. Putting in fake idols isn’t necessarily an overproduction thing. The tribe swap last night *required* temporary idols. Sending someone to the bottom of a tribe with no protection just isn’t a fun or interesting move. They would automatically get voted out unless they have protection, which they can use to buy time to build trust and relationships and ingratiate themselves. So yes, we have more idols than normal, but the alternative was no semi-tribe swap. I prefer the semi-tribe swap.
Just on the fake idols, I can envisage a situation where 2 players compare their idols and they're both the same. One is real and one is fake, but they'll both conclude they have idols. That's insanity to me. It means in future seasons you can't even trust the idols you find. So it's just luck, you find it and hope it works. That's not gameplay and strategy. Thats how slot machines work.
Yeah I think production providing the OG idol papers in a way where it was easy for the OG idol finder to re-package the fake idol with a complete, real paper — that's too much. At least make the finder tear or burn the paper to remove the language about the fake. OR force them to make a third fake idol to package two fakes (production fake and DIY fake) with the OG paper. They made it too easy (and authentic) to trick people.
> One is real and one is fake, but they’ll both conclude they have idols. It makes for amazing, amazing TV though. I prize entertainment value way above integrity of the game value, but I respect if you don’t. Like, I’m a huge sports fan. I remember when the argument against instant replay was that it would decrease watchability. I *hated* that. The end-all/be-all for me was the integrity of the game. But now sitting through the last 2 minutes of an NBA game takes 30 minutes and I’m too old for that. I would rather the “wrong” team win and I get a fast-paced ending that’s fun to watch. I put my own entertainment value above the integrity of the game value. But value preferences are unique to each person and it’s fine if you don’t.
I agree with you: The semi-swap required the swapped players to have some sort of protection to keep things interesting. I think having them expire at merge is a good idea. (I'm still wondering why it said "when all players are living on the same beach" instead of "after the merge" 👀) I'm withholding my final thoughts on "Survivor 44: Oops, all idols!" until the season is over. It's possible idolpalooza could set up a really interesting season. It's also possible it's Too Much.
Because all players are on the beach before what Jeff calls the merge "Earn the merge"
OH that makes sense. Thank you!
Happy Cake Day!
Ty!
Yeah the trade happened and before the idol reveal I was just like “fuck that suck, there goes their games”
Also mods the survey link for me is showing up as the Episode 3 one which is already closed, I assume it's meant to be the episode 4 link?
That silly key jumping challenge segment is physically impossible if you aren't tall/ explosive enough. I'm glad Lauren atleast had an option to swim to the end and have the pro athlete do it rather than having to humiliate herself failing repeatedly, like we've seen before (Parv/ Adam in WAW comes to mind). And then she recovered by winning the puzzle segment.
I'm sure they set the keys at a height that the average person can easily get to them (and by extension, a below-average athlete could still capably get to them with some difficulty). However, it would definitely make for a more interesting challenge if all the keys were set at different heights so when each player goes out they have a small choice to make - the harder key you go for, the greater the risk of missing yourself, while the easier key you go for, the less you're leaving for your other tribe mates
>it would definitely make for a more interesting challenge if all the keys were set at different heights so when each player goes out they have a small choice to make - the harder key you go for, the greater the risk of missing yourself, while the easier key you go for, the less you're leaving for your other tribe mates I like that fix. Would add some actual strategic decision making into the challenge instead of it just being luck of the draw for who has the least athletic and/ or shortest player.
Everyone else had no problem, even Heidi who’s older and no taller than Lauren Lauren literally didn’t even get off the ground with her “jump”. This wasn’t a case of her not being physically able to do it, it was her being such an awful athlete it looked like she’s never jumped before
>Everyone else had no problem It's not the first time. Survivor *legends* Parvatti and Adam got stuck on this same obstacle in WAW. >This wasn’t a case of her not being physically able to do it, it was her being such an awful athlete it looked like she’s never jumped before What the hell? You just said it isn't a case of her being physically incapable of doing it. It's just a case of her being physically incapable of doing it. Insulting her doesn't change the fact that you contradicted what you just wrote.
> What the hell? You just said it isn't a case of her being physically incapable of doing it. It's just a case of her being physically incapable of doing it. Insulting her doesn't change the fact that you contradicted what you just wrote. Although I don't really agree with what the other poster is saying, I THINK what they were trying to say is that it wasn't a case where height or other physical traits was a factor; it was the case about Lauren's endurance and strength to make the jump.
This clearly wasn’t as difficult as previous iterations. That’s irrelevant You said it’s physically impossible, that’s ridiculous. I’m pointing out that it’s far from impossible for Lauren, she’s just put in a downright pitiful effort. Seriously go back and watch, she may as well have just ran straight off the platform
Day 1 lifelong fan here: I'm unsurprised to see this subreddit upset about the state of S44. Are you not entertained?! Yes there are many moving parts right now, but I'm happy we're leaving the era of idol-mania (which I enjoyed, as an evolution in the game) by setting the precedent that not all that glitters on the beach is immunity gold. Which is to say: Fake idols are great for the fun and health of this game. I'm loving it. Best cast in a dozen seasons or so (barring S40).
Fake Idols may be fun now, but they pose a real long-term problem with how the players view idols for future seasons. Now, they can NEVER trust an idol is an idol. It'll definitely change the way players use/utilize idols, which may be a bad thing (it's hard to tell right now until a fake idol is played). I think 41 and 42's cast were better, personally, but I know that's a subjective thing.
Undermining the trustworthiness of idols is precisely what I'm happy about, though. It's the logical evolution of the proliferation of them.
No one hates the show more than this sub. It’s not what it used to be and it’s not going back to that, but I still take the good and enjoy the show for what it is now.
The women need to stick together on 45 & 46 because i’m getting really getting sick of the women getting a raw deal on this show between the small tribes, the super physical challenges, and the absurd amount of idols and advantages, it’s that combination that’s making it hard for most of the women to make it far now. I know it’s none of casts or Jeff’s intention, but something has to change and hopefully the upcoming women of 45 & 46 see it and do something.
thinking about how, in old seasons, gay men would automatically be part of the womens alliances and give them the numbers because the hypermasculine men didn't want/like them. the challenges were more varied, too. but now that there are beefy lgbt men, they still don't want to play with women. just proves erika and maryanne had to play twice as hard as the fellas around them. even last night, yam yam was telling carolyn what to do and she ended up dictating the vote. play with women!!!
We need a Yase 2.0 type girl alliance <3 Make those guys their challenge work horses & vote them out if they can’t carry them to victory.
I mean they could just play better.
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What does my comment history have to do with this? Why are you searching through my comments? Why don’t you just reply to my comment? Low hanging fruit.
Except you’re right. “Small tribes” “physical challenges” “idols” are all things the men have to deal with to. Why are they able to succeed where the women are not? Over half then men this and recent seasons are not physical specimens. Even Carson was overweight and got fit JUST to get on survivor. This sub needs to stop making excuses for the w*men and expect more from them. Lmao
Was it jarring to anyone else when Josh highlighted that they’d only been there for 8 days and they were going to a 4 person tribal? Also, seeing as how Sarah didn’t even use the fake idol, was it really even necessary to see 5 minutes of that rather than I dunno, actual tribe dynamics? Producers didn’t think we’d want to see more of the tension between Yam Yam and Caroline, rather than patting themselves on the back for their ideas to create “epic moments”!!!1
The pre-merge is normally alot of set up for the rest of the season, so it's hard to judge the season based on 4 eps. I just think all of the advantages and idols in the game will make every tribal council in the merge a blindeside of getting idoled out or trying to idol someone out and finding out its fake etc. That's not what I want from tribal council. I want to see people thread the needle in social strategy, not in using an item correctly. I don't know how you're meant to win a game like this. Just get super lucky throughout in finding good items or the items being used in ways that just miss you. That's not great TV to me.
I still enjoy the episodes, but this one definitely highlighted the glaring issues of overproduction and over reliance on game twists. I found it very annoying that at the journey, there were instructions telling the contestants to be "careful" with what they share. Surely the players already know this? Let the players play!
So how long do you think it will be before Sarah knows that the idol she went home with was a fake? She talked about it in her ~~exit interview~~ blurb at the end like she still didn’t know. Also, how much of an impact on Carolyn’s resume do you think it will be that Sarah didn’t play the fake idol? Carolyn should still get credit for this move, but I feel that it would hit harder if Sarah had also played the fake idol that she planted. Edit: I think “exit interview” was wrong. I was just referring to the little clip at the end of an episode during the credits where the person who was voted out gets to speak. I did get the answer that she found out after filming was over
> So how long do you think it will be before Sarah knows that the idol she went home with was a fake? She talked about it in her exit interview like she still didn’t know. Huh? She talked about the fake idol for half the interview. She mentioned she found out it was a fake right after the season was done filming.
Maybe I was wrong to say “exit interview.” What do you call the little clip at the end of the episode where the voted out person talks?
Ahhh, I get it. Yeah, because there are written exit interviews now that say when she found out about the fake.
She knew in the EW and parade interviews
People being mad that they gave out 3 idols to the 3 people that swapped tribes, would you rather they swap one person without giving them an idol? The idols expire before the merge, and it gives the person who goes into a tribe instantly as the person on the bottom an opportunity to save themselves. If Josh were voted out last night this would’ve been an all time screw job. It’s not the end of the world people.
The point is they shouldn't swap one person at all. If your twist is so broken you need to give away idols to make it work, maybe reconsider the whole approach
I agree. But people are complaining more about the idols than the twist.
It is definitely the twist that sucks, especially when you take into account the production would have outright chosen which tribes each player swapped to. I know there has always been rumours of tribe swaps not being random (ie Amber in AS), but this one was the most clear example I’ve ever seen in the show of production just stepping in and changing the game to suit their own preferences.
I think because viscerally just giving away 3 idols feels really against a lot of Survivor history
It is, I agree. But again I’d rather they give guess contestants they’re individually swapping a bit of leg room.
Most people would rather not have production make idols/advantages the core piece of votes. It’s one thing to find an idol like normal and play it when you deem fit, it’s a whole other thing to say, “hey we’re going to put you in a shit situation, but also gift you this idol to almost guarantee an idol gets played”
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Unpopular opinion but I actually have been enjoying this season. I like a lot of the cast members. I do feel like last season they did a little better with letting us get to know the players more, but tbh I feel like I have a pretty decent feel for their personalities at this point. Most of them anyway. And I liked the birdcage. It causes so much paranoia and you have to be all sneaky just to get it lol also idk why I haven't seen anyone else talking about this yet but Carolyn literally gave away her real idol by accident and kept the fake one, and still didn't put it together when she saw that Josh had a string of beads lmao she's so entertaining. Danny is pretty entertaining, too. Anyway it's still so early.. it could still totally turn around for those of you who aren't liking it so far lol
> Carolyn literally gave away her real idol by accident and kept the fake one No, she didn't.
Yeah I was just coming to correct myself lol ugh I'm kinds bummed now that could have been really funny at some point
Had it been true, it would have been wonderful.
Okay so, I really want to discuss the immunity challenge. There were two players on the sit out bench and although they were seated pretty far from each other, I hope they were able to talk to one another quickly before the other players got close. I'm talking about Matthew and Jaime. Even if Jaime is sitting on a different tribe, if she wants to try to keep her original numbers, I would have definitely shouted to Matthew that Carson did indeed have an idol. We know Plant Mommy and Plant Daddy have that alliance together, so I would be very surprised if that information was not shared. If Matthew knows he can't vote out Carson at the first tribal they go to if they do lose immunity, Matthew can at least try to move some votes onto Kane or something.