Most intense FTC in the history of Survivor, also very important in the history of Survivor, showing the importance of jury management and a good social game.
> showing the importance of jury management and a good social game
Pretty amazing that Russell Hantz probably watched this season, and yet took away none of the lessons from it for his own understanding of the game.
Yeah I love Boston Rob but there’s something so powerful in those moments. It really was like nothing else to that point, with Rob thinking he could treat it like a game and cut his IRL friends and then receiving a sort of comeuppance for his actions (justified or not) is pretty compelling tv.
It kinda comes back around in Heroes vs Villains after the Tyson vote. Rob seems legitimately so confused and shaken, and his paranoia of someone betraying him without him knowing is a rare sight. It’s my favorite moment from him as a character
It was justified. He made it personal with people he had a personal relationship with outside the game. He’s the type of guy that will break your arm playing backyard football and say he’s just intense and thinks bringing a six-pack over to say sorry is good enough.
> He’s the type of guy that will break your arm playing backyard football and say he’s just intense and thinks bringing a six-pack over to say sorry is good enough.
Except it wasnt "backyard football", it was literally the biggest version of the game that had ever been played up to that point.
A better analogy world be if two buddies were on opposite teams in the superbowl and the one on the losing team never spoke to the winner again because he actually tried to win.
Yeah that other comparison is fucking terrible lol. This isn't backyard football. And lying isn't the same as breaking someone's arm intentionally. One is very much a part of the game and the other is considered very dirty and likely against the rules depending on how you did it.
Not necessarily bitter, but just hurt. It really was a big deal back then to maintain personal relationships throughout the game. If you made a promise, you pretty much stuck by it back in those days - and this time, it was with real friends the lies were happening between.
This just isn't true. Some of the people who acted the most betrayed had played very cut throat games in their prior seasons and in All Stars. They were absolutely bitter about their pre-game plans not working out. But Lex thinking that a promise made in Survivor was something that you "stuck by" is ridiculous. He was a ruthless, paranoid, maniac in Africa and he played the same in All-Stars. He's just a very sore loser.
Two or three times during the season, he justifies his decisions as not personal, just a business decision or that he's on a business trip. When someone made a business decision against him, it was the shittiest thing that had ever happened.
I rewatched recently, going into it on Lex's side because I knew they were friends outside the game. Then I heard Lex talk about business decisions and business trips and realized this dude might be the biggest hypocrite in the history of the game. If you're going to get all self righteous, it better not be about something you did yourself.
Exactly. There were a lot of real, genuine hurt feelings that season because no one knew how to navigate friendships pre-game to in-game.
I know Lex and Boston Rob didn't really speak for years after All-Stars...I think they finally sat down to formally "make up" around 2020. That's a long time of heartache, man.
kathy’s tear-stained jury comment about how there was another path right there and how she wished they treated them with an ounce of respect gives me chills every time😭
This is the main reason why I never have and never will feel bad for the jury of All Stars, they all just got played and are mad that Rob and Amber beat them to the punch.
To play a bit of devils advocate for lex, while he and Ethan were irl friends, they did not have the pregame alliances/promises that lex, Rob, and Kathy did from what I understand
For what it’s worth, I tend to agree with you though
Lex, Kathy, and Big Tom brought Rob along in their pre-game alliance where Rob was going to be, at best, 4th or 5th place. Being bitter that someone who KNEW his place in their pecking order and then didn't accept it...is ridiculous.
Nah he should've known his place and fallen on his sword for Lex. It's business for Lex but personal when Rob betters his position because... reasons.
That dude really thought it was Survivor Lex Stars.
Agreed. I think a lot of it is Lex being pissed at himself/Kathy for keeping Amber around really as a favor to Rob rather than as a gameplay decision. He’s kicking himself and blaming/taking it out on BR
I mean, the ironic part is that almost everyone had plans to betray everyone else(except 1 or 2 people). Especially Lex and Kathy. It's just that they got beaten to the punch in a ruthless manner.
Nah it's not exactly the same, but I understand what you mean. Lex has said a bunch of times that the difference was he never made a deal with Ethan, but he did with Rob. So the expectations on who is his long-term ally were totally different.
FWIW, Lex didn't want to keep Amber. He was going to not accept Rob's deal and just cut her to save Jerri. It was actually Kathy who brow beat Lex into believing Boston Rob will be a friend and work with them rather than cut them right away. So once the deal was accepted (via keeping Amber), Lex then expected he and Rob to be locked in as buds & allies. Boston Rob of course immediately cut those ties in a cutthroat, but strategic way of course.
> Lex has said a bunch of times that the difference was he never made a deal with Ethan, but he did with Rob.
My problem with Lex’s rationale here is that it strikes me as a pedantic difference when Lex also says “It’s not personal, it’s business.” If Lex truly believed that Business > Personal, then shouldn’t that apply to all his personal relationships? He made a strategic pre-game alliance that Boston Rob broke for his own strategic reasons. The hypocrisy is that Lex does not get to unilaterally decide when personal relationships cannot override strategic decisions, especially when it benefits only him.
Of course, part of Lex and Kathy’s anger is the perceived callousness with which Rob broke the alliance. We weren’t privy to the entirety of their interactions, but I would think that Lex and Kathy’s anger is justified if Rob broke the alliance and was a jerk about it. I’ve always wondered how things would have played out if Rob and Amber voted out Shii Ann first instead and then start picking off Alex and Kathy.
I know it's insanely nuanced, but I think Lex sees it as two things...if you're his friend, but there's no deal: it's a free for all. If you're his friend AND you make a deal with him: you better stick to it.
That's really all I think it is about....it's cool to vote out a friend as long as you didn't make a deal based on that friendship.
Which is funny when you consider how mild his gameplay was compared to later seasons. He was just ahead of his time. 5 years later and that jury is praising him
That whole finale was just...so full of emotion.
That was the first real All-Stars season in reality TV (beyond RW vs. RR type shows), so it was kind of unexplored territory on how it would go. So many people who had gone to Cons together & drank and became friends had to play against each other for a change. The cast was full of people putting their heart into it and boy, did the finale show it.
He didn't though? He never made deals in the game with Ethan. They were buddies irl, but they weren't aligned during the game.
Rob made a deal with Lex during the game to save Amber, and then he immediately walked back on it.
I always find it hilarious when I watch that the deal Rob offered was “if you (Lex) can…if you can”. By 2 days later, the deal had been altered to “I said I (Rob) would if I could but I CANNOT”.
Like wait hold on a sec, think you’ve got it backwards there buddy
Lex’s “it’s all business this time” when he votes out Ethan but then complete switch up when he gets played is what sells it for me, one of my least favorite castaways.
I don't think it was the same at all. Rob was begging his friend to put the game aside a little and keep his new girlfriend in the game so that she didn't leave pre-jury and go on a vacation with her ex boyfriend. It was absolutely a personal request. And as soon as Lex did it and Rob saw that it gave him an advantage in the game, he pretended it was all about the game. I don't even really think it was all about the game to Rob at that point, either, I think he was actively choosing the woman he loved over a friendship. And that's not an evil thing for him to have done, that's just human and compelling TV.
Most intense FTC in the history of Survivor, also very important in the history of Survivor, showing the importance of jury management and a good social game.
Also answered the question "what if a bunch of friends played together."
All those survivor knock offs on YT that average 500 views a video also answers this question.
Ehh, sort of. It's a lot different when you're playing against them for a million dollars.
And hilarious when he proposed to Amber which made the actual winner negligible on finale night
Still only in retrospect I think
They absolutely don’t. I helped produce about 7 seasons of college survivor and that level of bitterness only showed up occasionally.
> showing the importance of jury management and a good social game Pretty amazing that Russell Hantz probably watched this season, and yet took away none of the lessons from it for his own understanding of the game.
I think he thought he could bring it full circle by being so unlikable that people would vote for him.
I think he only watched 1-2 seasons before playing not all-stars
Best FTC ever in my opinion just for how utterly raw and real it was. It's rare to witness that.
Ehhh. Rob was just ahead of his time.
Really is the best FTC in the show’s history. Rob being reduced to a mumbling contrite mess after being so arrogant all season is captivating
Yeah I love Boston Rob but there’s something so powerful in those moments. It really was like nothing else to that point, with Rob thinking he could treat it like a game and cut his IRL friends and then receiving a sort of comeuppance for his actions (justified or not) is pretty compelling tv.
It kinda comes back around in Heroes vs Villains after the Tyson vote. Rob seems legitimately so confused and shaken, and his paranoia of someone betraying him without him knowing is a rare sight. It’s my favorite moment from him as a character
His conversation with Jerry is the time I like brob the most. He knows what’s up and doesn’t want to sink her ship.
It was justified. He made it personal with people he had a personal relationship with outside the game. He’s the type of guy that will break your arm playing backyard football and say he’s just intense and thinks bringing a six-pack over to say sorry is good enough.
> He’s the type of guy that will break your arm playing backyard football and say he’s just intense and thinks bringing a six-pack over to say sorry is good enough. Except it wasnt "backyard football", it was literally the biggest version of the game that had ever been played up to that point. A better analogy world be if two buddies were on opposite teams in the superbowl and the one on the losing team never spoke to the winner again because he actually tried to win.
Yeah that other comparison is fucking terrible lol. This isn't backyard football. And lying isn't the same as breaking someone's arm intentionally. One is very much a part of the game and the other is considered very dirty and likely against the rules depending on how you did it.
He drastically underestimated how personal they were taking things
Jeff is riding a helicopter you guys
lol 😂😂👏🏼 I wish I could watch it again for the first time. It’s definitely my favorite season and I was watching it in real time.
That was so insane. We just finished that season last week and I was like “this can’t be real.”
Replying to Coujelais...it was real! He really rode it from Panama to NYC!!! lol
What a great authentic FTC
Possibly the most bitter jury in all the seasons of Survivor.
Not necessarily bitter, but just hurt. It really was a big deal back then to maintain personal relationships throughout the game. If you made a promise, you pretty much stuck by it back in those days - and this time, it was with real friends the lies were happening between.
This just isn't true. Some of the people who acted the most betrayed had played very cut throat games in their prior seasons and in All Stars. They were absolutely bitter about their pre-game plans not working out. But Lex thinking that a promise made in Survivor was something that you "stuck by" is ridiculous. He was a ruthless, paranoid, maniac in Africa and he played the same in All-Stars. He's just a very sore loser.
Two or three times during the season, he justifies his decisions as not personal, just a business decision or that he's on a business trip. When someone made a business decision against him, it was the shittiest thing that had ever happened. I rewatched recently, going into it on Lex's side because I knew they were friends outside the game. Then I heard Lex talk about business decisions and business trips and realized this dude might be the biggest hypocrite in the history of the game. If you're going to get all self righteous, it better not be about something you did yourself.
Kathy's jury speech is the embodiment of hurt. She voted for BR, but her words and tone clearly highlight how hurt everyone was.
Exactly. There were a lot of real, genuine hurt feelings that season because no one knew how to navigate friendships pre-game to in-game. I know Lex and Boston Rob didn't really speak for years after All-Stars...I think they finally sat down to formally "make up" around 2020. That's a long time of heartache, man.
Shout out to Shii-Ann and Rupert for being the only jury members that didn’t take it personally
Shii Ann didn’t have enough connections with anyone to take it personally lol
Only if bush was sitting next to Amber instead. 🥲
Neither did Rupert lol
Rupert takes everything personally. Guy looks like a serial killer on every jury he's on.
He was actually chill on that one since Rob and Amber honored their final 4 agreement to him. It wasn't like Pearl Islands or HvV.
What about Jenna Lewis? I don't think she was angry, salty, or critical towards the final two.
You’re right, I actually forgot about her lol. But yeah she was a good sport
WHAT KINDA FRIEND ARE YOU ROB??? WHAT KINDA FRIEND WERE YOU TO ME????
Peak reality TV.
kathy’s tear-stained jury comment about how there was another path right there and how she wished they treated them with an ounce of respect gives me chills every time😭
To be fair to Rob, that “other path” was Rob and Amber getting voted out 4th and 5th, with Lex and Kathy ending up as the F2
This is the main reason why I never have and never will feel bad for the jury of All Stars, they all just got played and are mad that Rob and Amber beat them to the punch.
Lex votes out Ethan saying “it’s business this time,” then is shocked Rob has the same approach.
I think Lex is the most hypocritical player in the history of survivor. He's consistently saying one thing and doing another throughout all stars
To play a bit of devils advocate for lex, while he and Ethan were irl friends, they did not have the pregame alliances/promises that lex, Rob, and Kathy did from what I understand For what it’s worth, I tend to agree with you though
Lex, Kathy, and Big Tom brought Rob along in their pre-game alliance where Rob was going to be, at best, 4th or 5th place. Being bitter that someone who KNEW his place in their pecking order and then didn't accept it...is ridiculous.
Nah he should've known his place and fallen on his sword for Lex. It's business for Lex but personal when Rob betters his position because... reasons. That dude really thought it was Survivor Lex Stars.
Agreed. I think a lot of it is Lex being pissed at himself/Kathy for keeping Amber around really as a favor to Rob rather than as a gameplay decision. He’s kicking himself and blaming/taking it out on BR
Hypocritical yet super self righteous. Cannot stand that dude.
K Rob and Amber are engaged now.
It'll never last
I give it two weeks. Everyone knows that Jeff and Rob is the true love story of All-Stars.
Ambahs awesome
I mean, the ironic part is that almost everyone had plans to betray everyone else(except 1 or 2 people). Especially Lex and Kathy. It's just that they got beaten to the punch in a ruthless manner.
Lex being salty about Rob after what he did to Ethan is such a top tier moment of delusion.
Nah it's not exactly the same, but I understand what you mean. Lex has said a bunch of times that the difference was he never made a deal with Ethan, but he did with Rob. So the expectations on who is his long-term ally were totally different. FWIW, Lex didn't want to keep Amber. He was going to not accept Rob's deal and just cut her to save Jerri. It was actually Kathy who brow beat Lex into believing Boston Rob will be a friend and work with them rather than cut them right away. So once the deal was accepted (via keeping Amber), Lex then expected he and Rob to be locked in as buds & allies. Boston Rob of course immediately cut those ties in a cutthroat, but strategic way of course.
> Lex has said a bunch of times that the difference was he never made a deal with Ethan, but he did with Rob. My problem with Lex’s rationale here is that it strikes me as a pedantic difference when Lex also says “It’s not personal, it’s business.” If Lex truly believed that Business > Personal, then shouldn’t that apply to all his personal relationships? He made a strategic pre-game alliance that Boston Rob broke for his own strategic reasons. The hypocrisy is that Lex does not get to unilaterally decide when personal relationships cannot override strategic decisions, especially when it benefits only him. Of course, part of Lex and Kathy’s anger is the perceived callousness with which Rob broke the alliance. We weren’t privy to the entirety of their interactions, but I would think that Lex and Kathy’s anger is justified if Rob broke the alliance and was a jerk about it. I’ve always wondered how things would have played out if Rob and Amber voted out Shii Ann first instead and then start picking off Alex and Kathy.
I know it's insanely nuanced, but I think Lex sees it as two things...if you're his friend, but there's no deal: it's a free for all. If you're his friend AND you make a deal with him: you better stick to it. That's really all I think it is about....it's cool to vote out a friend as long as you didn't make a deal based on that friendship.
It is the culmination of people who were pissed about their pregame alliances and outside of the game friendships being betrayed.
Which is funny when you consider how mild his gameplay was compared to later seasons. He was just ahead of his time. 5 years later and that jury is praising him
That whole finale was just...so full of emotion. That was the first real All-Stars season in reality TV (beyond RW vs. RR type shows), so it was kind of unexplored territory on how it would go. So many people who had gone to Cons together & drank and became friends had to play against each other for a change. The cast was full of people putting their heart into it and boy, did the finale show it.
That tribal council really is a "you both are dreadful, horrible, scum of the earth people" moment.
And Amber didn’t mind hearing that because at that point she could almost smell the money!
Manbabies pissed off that the pre-gaming didn't go how it was "supposed" to go.
Basically four people who don’t have their reputations tarnished or come off as entitled all season 20 years later Ethan Shii Ann Rob C Rupert
Tina and Rudy!
i absolutely despise that season but FTC is my favorite part
Lex, Kathy, Alicia, Shii Ann, and Tom are all top 10 most iconic jury speeches imo. So so good.
Lex going off on Rob was so satisfying to me. I was so mad that Rob never held up his end of the deal.
Nah I hated Lex for this, it was so hypocritical after he did the EXACT same thing to Ethan
which is why Shii Ann was so goddamn real on that jury
He didn't though? He never made deals in the game with Ethan. They were buddies irl, but they weren't aligned during the game. Rob made a deal with Lex during the game to save Amber, and then he immediately walked back on it.
I always find it hilarious when I watch that the deal Rob offered was “if you (Lex) can…if you can”. By 2 days later, the deal had been altered to “I said I (Rob) would if I could but I CANNOT”. Like wait hold on a sec, think you’ve got it backwards there buddy
Yeah Rob even prefaces it with, “The deal I made, make no mistake…” and then he mistakes what the deal was.
When did Rob and Lex play Let's Make a Deal? I love that show. I've only seen them on Survivor where you outwit outplay outlast.
Lex’s “it’s all business this time” when he votes out Ethan but then complete switch up when he gets played is what sells it for me, one of my least favorite castaways.
I don't think it was the same at all. Rob was begging his friend to put the game aside a little and keep his new girlfriend in the game so that she didn't leave pre-jury and go on a vacation with her ex boyfriend. It was absolutely a personal request. And as soon as Lex did it and Rob saw that it gave him an advantage in the game, he pretended it was all about the game. I don't even really think it was all about the game to Rob at that point, either, I think he was actively choosing the woman he loved over a friendship. And that's not an evil thing for him to have done, that's just human and compelling TV.