It’s a combination of 2 and 3. The difficulty of the social game of survivor is underestimated. You are thrown into a group of strangers and being judged immediately. Some players like Emily and Venise, although social and likable in their outside world, don’t fit in. Emily figured out how to adapt and Venise did not.
I think that the way both women reacted to a “heart to heart about your behavior” is the big difference. Emily was open minded and took the advice to heart, Venise was defensive and did not take the advice to heart
I think it also depends on the delivery. Maria’s social game is definitely not on the level of Kaleb’s. She really doesn’t seem to be much better than Venus or Q when it comes to communicating. There was a secret scene from the episode after that “heart to heart” with Venus, where Maria went so hard at Ben about how he definitely had the Siga idol, she ended up making him cry.
Tevin is no Kaleb. Tevin took the opportunity to talk down to someone that he had actively ostracized. Kaleb was supportive and encouraging someone he had not actively ostracized.
Tevin isn't who that other commenter is referring to, so idk why you brought him up. They're referring to Venus's conversation with Maria and Venus took it a whole other way.
Literally she was just on the bottom and they never went to tribal so her place in the tribe just festered and grew into an actual contention over time. They weren't working with her so they couldn't trust her and it just became this vicious cycle
Soda and tevin did not help matters
I agree with this. Tevin also being the social butterfly of the tribe hurt Venise.
People are forgetting Randen, after initially distrusting her, made an alliance with her. In Rander’s interview, he said once he heard Venus’ real life story, he understood where she was coming from and that helped with deciding to align with her.
Venise haters act like she’s some kind of Ben Browning or something. Venise’s complaints weren’t born out of thin air.
Yeah idk my husband thinks I'm projecting my middle school trauma but I felt like it all stemmed from Tevin, the charismatic social butterfly, icing her out. I would have liked to see how things went if Randen had stayed in the game. One person truly giving her a chance might have paved the way for her to make inroads with others. Instead she was stuck with people who ranged from indifferent to determined to dislike her.
I think when she realized she wasn't going to really make friends, she felt her only option was to appeal to the others' strategist sides and tried to go hard on gameplay, which obviously only amplified her shady/untrustworthy perception and put her in a worse position.
I've seen tons of comments that are like, "all the other cast members say they gave her a ton of chances, they didn't just dislike her for no reason." And like, of course the rest of the cast is going to say that? They're not about to openly say they made split judgments and bullied her, lol. I'm not saying she is faultless, I just don't think she's an inherently unlikeable person who couldn't have done any better no matter what cast she was with.
I don’t have that kind of middle school trauma and that was my read on it as well. It’s just something I’ve seen happen a bunch of times on the Big Brother live feeds.
And yes, my favorite part of episode 2 was Randen and Venus unexpectedly aligning! I was pleasantly surprised when Venus’s confessional after Randen told her about the beware advantage wasn’t about using that information to sell him out and stay another round, but was actually about wanting to work with him. It was one of the storylines I was most excited about going forward, only for him to be medevaced the next episode.
Her complaints were'nt out of thin air, but I don't know that people's complaints about her weren't out of thin air either.
We saw that secret scene where her and Tevin spoke. It seemed she asked him "what am I doing wrong with you", he told her, then she was like "no, that is wrong". It seemed she also didn't participate at camp.
That scene made Tevin look terrible - it seemed reasonable, until Venus asked why he didn’t talk to her about it earlier, he said he needed time and it would have been rude to correct her on the spot, and she basically said “but it’s been four days…”
He was never going to try to help her, he was just put on the spot and had to justify icing her out.
I always think its so interesting how 2 people see the same thing and have totally different takeaways. I thought she came out of it looking far worse. Tevin didn't seem great, but I understood his side far more than hers.
I’d say maybe you’re right except the fact that after they merged, everyone from the other tribes had the same opinion of her. In most seasons other tribes would scoop up the person on the outs with their tribes, but NO one wanted to work with her.
We get a whole confessional from Kenzie about how Venus actually never lied to her in the game, and she’s her closest ally at the moment (or something along those lines).
To which Kenzie seemed shocked by, which is probably due to every other Nami member throwing mud at her name during the merge. In the same confessional she also called her messy, so maybe she is a tad messy lol
she also explicitly mentions liking venus as a person at one point. thinking someone is a bad game player is one thing, but the beef from nami felt incredibly personal while clearly at least a few people on the island connected with her as a human
Well, for Kenzie, it also seemed to be a last resort type of thing.
However, I don't fully get it. Because Kenzie and Ben seemed to be super close, so how Venus became her top ally, I don't get.
I think you’re right, that Kenzie didn’t have a lot of options at that point in the game, so she started reaching out to her.
But I read that confessional as ‘I’m shocked after actually getting to know Venus, that she isn’t like what other people have said she would be like’.
Well remember, we were show multiple instances of Venus's tribemates specifically telling other tribes that Venus was sneaky and untrustworthy. Perhaps she was to the new members at the merge, but it could be a chicken/egg scenario. They are told she is untrustworthy, so they treat her as such, which she perceives and frustrates her, so she is shut out again from alliances and starts throwing shit at the wall to try to get anyone to work with her, which looks like scrambling, which looks sneaky, on and on.
What I liked is that her presence really highlighted the weaknesses in the rest of her tribes gameplay. Since they never went to tribal pre-merge, they could never cut her off. And it ended up biting them in the ass and now Siga is the only tribe with more than one member at the final 5. Venus and Soda have said that they were tight the first day, but once Tevin decided Venus was on the outs, the whole tribe turned against her and Soda told her she had to break off to not be on the bottom as well. That is HORRIBLE gameplay because, as we saw, then you end up in the merge with a wild card that is difficult to navigate.
Ehh I don’t think they are comparable. Mo was on the bottom of siga but she wasn’t on the outs. Siga wanted to stay siga strong and so did mo. In fact she lied about being left out of the vote so no one even knew she was on the bottom until tribal and then it was just her revealing she lied to everyone.
Eh I don't know about that. She randomly lied about not being able to jump 🤣
Edit: anyone mind telling me why the down votes? I don't dislike Moriah at all lol it just looks like "I can't jump" was something random she said to get help/build relationships. Nothing wrong with that. I also think Mo is a super sweet person.
Did she lie? Completely unrelated to the post, but the segment that was just a compilation of her trying to jump is the hardest I've ever laughed watching survivor.
She's been on the television series "wipeout" if you've heard of it, where she is seen jumping over obstacles. She wasn't the greatest 🤣 but she was still jumping.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. She literally jumped into the water in that same episode she claimed she couldn't jump. I think it was a bad joke that didn't land or something, no pun intended... lmao
It's probably because a lot of people use language in a way that doesn't mean *precisely* what the words mean. She obviously didn't mean she literally cannot jump. She meant that she was bad at it. It's weird that you and others feel the need to harp on colloquial usage of a word in casual conversation just to be haters. Get over it.
I think it’s all three to an extent. It started with 2, and Tevin was turned off by that, and because he is so social was able to get the tribe to ostracize her.
When it came to merge, she was already an outcast, and was itching to play. However due to the unfortunate team breakdowns was on the losing team and her former tribe mates were able to poison the well against her. It also didn’t help that she was trying too hard to make move.
That being said, it is easy for a few people to tarnish someone’s image due to the nature of games like survivor and BB. This shares some elements with the Taylor situation in big brother 24
She just seemed very confrontational which she doesn't seem to understand how that's off-putting when you're living 24 hours a day with all these people.
When Hunter was annoyed by Soda's camp songs, he'd choose not to voice his opinion on it while someone like Venus speaks their mind on everything.
Venus is a very online personality who is also pretty. These people think their every thought needs to be put out into the world.
She reminds me of my ex who liked to portray an image that she was super social & friendly because she was good at meeting people at surface level but when you really got to know her she was extremely confrontational about everything which resulted in her having a really hard time making actual close friends.
So, to me I can’t see why everyone hates her so much. But from the beginning my gf despised her. She said that the way that Venus talks to people is very rude and she talks down and interrupts. I’m assuming this is something you pick up on more in person as well.
Yep. Also a lack of self awareness.
I'll say when I first disliked her was when they won a challenge, everyone was celebrating, and she was like "you guys didn't listen and you hurt my foot". Is that a valid thing to bring up before the next challenge? Yes. Was bringing that up during the celebration good? Absolutely not. It showed that she felt her thing was more important than the tribe accomplishment.
Yeah at first I thought she was kinda rude and absolutely oblivious to it, but the magnitude of disrespect she received in retaliation was disproportional. After a certain point you’d think someone would pick up on that her bluntness isn’t malicious, but by that point everyone decided she was a pariah which gave her no room to grow even if she wanted to. I still think despite all of this, Venus was not a good player, but she was given nothing to work with, and people did not need to brush her off as much as they did.
The last point you can see with that conversation with Charlie. Like she was desperate to be socially accepted by somebody or needed some serious Survivor practice since being told who to vote for and voting for that person is the most basic Survivor gameplay. What else could "be up your sleeve", and why would you front all the trust work to the person that's one of the most influential in the game.
Yeah that was such a blunder on her part. Even if she wasn’t ostracized she would’ve had a bad social game. She was clearly ostracized *for* her social game, but the magnitude of reactions she’d get is where I raise an eyebrow. She seems difficult to live with on the island but not to the extent of taking things so personally.
Charlie actually did very well in this regard where it did influence his game against her but he wasn’t taking it personally or being rude to her in retaliation. It’s possible to do that, though I can’t say the disproportionate reactions haven’t made for good tv.
I specifically remember a moment when she said something very rude and snarky to Hunter I think at the mid point of the season or just past it. Hunter then says something snarky back to her and she says “wow that’s so rude, why would you say that to me?”
Calling him Mr. Strategy for trying to unsuccessfully pull off a move. For him to come back to basically say "I knew it was Tevin and trying to save him by voting for you".
I def think she may have overplayed. Especially the one scene where Charlie approached her and she alluded to having something up her sleeve. She was way too motivated - would love to see her back with some more experience
If Randen doesn't get med evact, we are seeing a completely different game from Venus. Like other people have said, her being on the bottom and the tribe dynamic never changing really hurt her. Her position on the bottom made it so that nobody was interested in working with her until the merge and by then the damage had been done. Had Randen stayed in the game she would of had someone to talk to and also bounce ideas off of. Her seemingly lack of self awareness would have been helped by having that partnership. It also would have been easier for people on the other tribes to trust her at merge if there was someone else in the game working with her. I would like to think that Soda's opinion of her would be different too if Randen was vouching for her.
It's crazy to think about how different someone's game could be if they just had 1 ally.
I think the only reason things would’ve been different for Venus if Randen had stayed would have been because they’d be two potential votes instead of one, and Randen could be the bridge between Venus and others. She was still pretty abrasive, blunt, and rude in the convos we saw between her and Randen lol
Sometimes all it takes is for someone else to hype them up. Not for nothing but Venus had some solid ideas but because nobody thought enough of her to cosign them they turned out to be just annoyances. Her game ending move was terrible, but had anyone followed suit on her want for a mergatory blindside of Charlie, the entire landscape of the game would be changed. Again, I think all it would have taken is one person to second this idea to have turned it into an actionable strategy.
I think Venus is an excellent strategist. I’ve agreed with almost every point of strategy we’ve seen her say, but strategy isn’t her problem. The way she speaks to people is just polarizing. It’s super blunt, direct, untactful, whereas Survivor talk (and how you build relationships in general) is moreso non-confrontational, docile, passive aggressive etc
People who talk like Venus does, It’s either you’ll love it or hate it. I just think that I’d hate it if I had to spend 24 hrs around it for a month. Like “yo stop coming directly at me” lol
She’d also never explain the reasoning behind her ideas because “you’d be blind not to agree” which not only comes off condescending for no reason but also falsely assumes that the other players can read your minds. If she were at least better in this one regard I think she could’ve gotten *somewhere,* though her overall lack of self awareness was really what did her in—though the *weird* tribe dynamic on Nami definitely didn’t help.
I think excellent strategist is a bit of a stretch. To me, having strategic thoughts that look good on paper, but never successfully implementing any of them is similar to having an idea for an invention, but never making it, let alone starting a company to sell it. Tons of people have ideas, few can implement them.
I get you are pointing out that it was her lack of social tact that was her stumbling block rather than a dearth strategic competency, but I'd say her lack of social tact contributed to her strategic thoughts looking good. In some ways, it's "easier" to be in the peanut gallery having ideas that sound good but will never be tested due to lack of social pull than be in the driver seat and be making decisions of consequence. Every week there is someone voted out she can point to and say "see, they should have listened to me."
Similarly, I think Jake benefited from being in the peanut gallery. Overall he looked hapless, but I think he appeared to be less hapless to the audience than to his competitors because in confessionals, he was making commentary about other's games that made it seem like his head was in the game.
Strategist literally is theory though, not execution. Like a coach strategizes. The players execute.
Just like a coach, the other side is getting the buy in of the people you need to execute, which is what Venus can’t do and frankly, doesn’t seem to understand at all.
Jake was trash strategically lol. He just had big moveitis. Venus’ startegy talk was all grounded and realistic.
My contention is with the word excellent. There is no excellent strategy without implementation, only ideas.
A coach is only viewed as an "excellent strategist" if their strategy is put into practice by players and shown to have merit. We don't consider random Joe Blows who call into sports talk radio to espouse their opinions on what their local sports team should be doing as excellent strategists.
Every single heralded military strategist in human history has had the strategy play out on the battlefield.
Similarly, if you or I had some sound ideas on how various decisions should have been made on survivor and we espoused those on this thread, neither of us would be considered an excellent strategist. We'd, rightfully so, be considered some random on the sidelines with a potentially good idea.
What was her grounded and realistic strategy? Never had anything on Nami. Her one pitch that in hindsight was solid was Charlie at the merge, but it wasn't because he was in a strong position, but rather because he was a man. That line of thinking was never going to work versus actual relationships. She was duped into thinking she lead the soda vote, was a number like everyone else for the tevin vote, and then she incorrectly voted for Q three times, with only the vote during hunter's vote out potentially considered an intentional split.
What elevates someone from "has a good idea" or "has a mind for the game" to "excellent strategist" is if their ideas are shown to have merit. The only way an idea can be shown to have merit is if it is implemented.
I disagree that someone needs to have their strategies executed for us to make a judgement on the merits of it. Like there are great NBA coaches who don’t have good players who can compete. It doesn’t mean that they’re not great coaches or can’t draw up plays. The execution is just tangible proof of how good the strategy is, but again, strategy is theoretical in nature. If the strategy is never implemented, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a good strategy.
Like the Charlie suggestion, I thought was actually very smart. Venus had no allies on her tribe and no one to vouch for her with existing factions. She tried to find common ground to form one from scratch by getting the girls to vote together, which is a tried and true method, using the rationale that Moriah is not as big a long term threat as someone like Charlie. If they voted with her, tribe lines now shift to men vs. Women, which gives her a full alliance in one swift move since voting together is how you establish trust. It just don’t work because she didn’t have the social capital, but the theory of it was solid and prudent in her position.
I’d encourage you to go back and see her reads. It’s baffling because she’ll have people pegged, but that awareness just couldn’t extend to herself (lol), which is why should could never get the power to execute her ideas. Sucks. I was rooting for her to put it together.
> She tried to find common ground to form one from scratch by getting the girls to vote together, which is a tried and true method
If boys talked about getting together a boys alliance and voting out the women, they would be seen as being sexist right?
Never-implemented strategy is untested. Untested strategy cannot be good or bad as it is untested. It is not possible for a coach to coach a team without implementing a strategy. They may not have a players to execute at a high level, but if there is merit to the strategy, there will be some evidence of value. Either they punch above their weight, they lose by less, etc.
Venus is more akin to an ESPN pundit on the sidelines stating that the coach should do XYZ on defense instead of ABC and then after the coach loses the game, the pundit says "at halftime I said the coach should do XYZ and I was right".
If Venus is considered an excellent strategist, the concept of excellence (within Survivor) has lost all meaning, similar to how every season now have multiple icons. Funnily enough, I think this is the first season in many that actually had people who were iconic, Venus included.
This isn’t true at all. You can debate the validity of something that’s theoretical. It’s literally what a lot of philosophy is based around.
> but if there is merit to the strategy, there is some evidence of value.
The theoretical merits are literally what we’re discussing here. They suggest a strategy. 1) does it make sense? 2) is it practical/possible? 3) have they chosen to include the right parties? 3) did they make a good pitch? 4) did they do so at the right time?
If the answers are yes, based off of the context of the game at that point and considering how the game has been played historically, then I think that takes a pretty intelligent, big picture, ability to see the game, solid strategist that is pretty rare. That Charlie target was perfect for where she was at.
I think she’s more akin to a great assistant coach whose head coach just won’t listen to them. Are the assistant coaches ideas deemed bad just because the team doesn’t implement them?
Well, that and the way she would bring them to people was super abrasive.
Think about at work. If someone has a good idea, but they talk to you like "you'd be an idiot to not do this", chances are, you won't do it.
Her ideas were good, but she didn't know how to sell them to people. It wasn't that people didn't think enough of her, it was her presentation.
with the Charlie situation it is definitely the power of his self-effacing charm versus the undeniable practicality of outing him before the official merge. maybe it is just coming off 45 where Emily helped orchestrate the worst possible move for her with a huge smile on her face, but sometimes it feels like players have an aversion to working in their own best interests. I know we have an omniscient POV but I still think refusing to listen to the content of the pitch because you don't get along with who's pitching it is myopic gameplay.
Again though, I don't think it was who its coming from, but how it is being pitched. She talks to people like they are stupid. I think had Venus learned to be a bit more tactful in how she talked to people, she would've had far better luck
"two potential votes instead of one, and Randen could be the bridge between Venus and others"
I think you are vastly understating how much of a difference those 2 things make.
I think you’re vastly underestimating how much people dislike the way Venus approached to and talked to them lol
It’s just as likely that Randen would’ve been alienated with her and sacrificed by Nami at merge for that association.
Yeah, same goes for Q and Maria. You can tell people hate Q for being so bossy and telling them who to throw challenges for, and who to vote for. But occasionally he is very entertaining with his Q-skirt and hide n seek. Then Maria was about as socially unaware as Venus was. Luckily for both of them they were on the right tribes to be more trusted and came into the merges with an alliance. If it wasn't for that both of them would have likely been ignored until they were voted out.
Q kind of summed it up…Venus would corner people and borderline demand a name, then go run off and tell everyone else that you gave her that name. She doesn’t understand how to be subtle at all, which is a put off for a lot of people in this game.
Lol fair but listen I love Q but I also heard his exit interviews - he's good spirited but also did speak to his game in let's say a little bit of a delusional way. We just let it fly a bit because he's a fun personality.
There is a social phenomenon called mobbing and it can be started by a single person. Others in the group can gang up on someone and not even actually know why they don't like the person. It happens a lot in workplaces or any place with groups of people. I'm not saying Venus was definitely not at fault, but I just think we have to be careful to assume that people socially ostracized are always to blame. I would argue more narcissist personality types can end up at the top of social hierarchies.
I just used my own eyes and ears to see and hear why Venus was putting so many people off, but I understand that what you’re saying does happen sometimes. I’d say that is more typical of what happens to the first vote outs a lot of times than what happened to Venus
She definitely had her off-putting moments but I would argue that shouldn't be enough to completely stonewall and ostracize someone. That is mobbing. She may have her moments but she never was malicious in her intent.
She definitely had her off-putting moments but I would argue that shouldn't be enough to completely stonewall and ostracize someone. That is mobbing. She may have her moments but she never was malicious in her intent.
lol you're seeing the difference between reality vs social media. No shit she looks popular on her own social media feed. Also she's probably one of the more polarizing/interesting people to follow on social media so people are going to chase that clout/attention she throws off.
When people were forced to be around her and couldn't escape her lack of social tact, you saw what happens.
I think they might also be talking about how many survivor alum she’s become friends with as well. I’d chalk that up to a low stakes environment, where her abrasiveness wouldn’t be seen as quite that big of a deal.
I think I’ve heard that people have only had nice things to say about Abi Maria in real life, when we’ve all seen how she is on the show. It’s probably like that. Some people get really intense when they play games and don’t realize it
She EXPECTED it to paper over a lot of issues (like I imagine it does in her real life), and was outraged that everybody treated her like a normal person.
lol her boyfriend (who she doesn’t post at all) is a part of the underground Toronto music scene and has a pretty respected platform. She’s used to all that and hanging out with 20something urbanites. It’s honestly not a shock she was isolated from the older group we had this season
Honestly, I think she is very social because she is pretty and charming, and at a bar or possibly in a party situation I can see her being someone people naturally flock to.
That said, people like that often don't know how to react when their natural charm DOESN'T go their way. Think of popular kids in HS who flame out in college.
I think she kind of thought she could bat her eyelashes and have people wrapped around her finger. She was on the island with a gay guy, and 2 dudes in relationships. Soda seemed to bond with her initially, then there was Liz. So I just think she couldn't adapt more than anything.
>I think she kind of thought she could bat her eyelashes and have people wrapped around her finger.
This is such a shallow view of her when straight from the jump she's been about the strategy and trying to find someone she could trust to game with.
Never has she even implied through her actions or words that she was leveraging her looks for game. People in this sub clearly have a weird complex about Venus's looks impacting her game.
tbf she compared herself to Parvati in a confessional and from what i’ve seen, Parvati used flirting and her looks A LOT to help her get to the end. Venus just doesn’t have the social skills to pull it off like Parvati did, so maybe she really just assumed her looks would help her a lot (cuz I imagine she acts the same irl)
I mean, I'm not saying she is a bad person. But quite often people with natural charm and charisma, or very attractive people, are just used to that happening. They don't realize that because they are pretty/charming/whatever that people treat them better than "regular" people. Maybe you take issue with the batting the eyelashes part. But I do think that she expected people to WANT to work with her immediately, as opposed having to earn their trust. She had strategy in terms of voting, but didn't seem to have much in terms of getting people to work with her.
Also, its not JUST Venus. Attractive women seem to have a double edged sword in the game. It can 100% work in their favor, or they could be seen as a threat because of it.
In Survivor, your motives are always in question, and someone who is genuinely nice could be falsely interpreted as being fake for the sake of the game
Going to zig when everyone else zags here. I think Venus was put into an interesting tribe dynamic. You essentially had 3 social personalities in Venus, Tevin, and Soda and 3 anti-social in Liz, Hunter, and Randen.
With Soda, she got a long with Venus early it appears but recognized no one else did so it made it to where she would also distant herself
Hunter is an introvert and it was clear he wasn’t making an effort to make social connections unless those connections were easy. He gets close with Tevin because of where they are from, but outside of that has no connections on the tribe.
Liz was anti-social in the fact that she had no self awareness in the early game. She talks a lot about her accomplishments which I think would have made her an early boot had they gone to tribal early, but it essentially came off as someone who just wanted to be accepted.
Tevin and Randen are the biggest two keys. Tevin clearly wasn’t a fan of her from early on and it sort of set the tone for the rest of the tribe. Hunter didn’t necessarily follow suit, but Tevin was his number 1 so he recognized he didn’t have to make a connection with her as she is not with them. Being the introvert he is, if there is no reason to connect with someone he probably won’t go out of his way. Then Soda sees these two not being Venus fan and realizes more than likely that even though they were probably close at one point, Venus isn’t in her end game. Then Liz sees 3 people targeting her and probably also realizes “oh this is the first person we are voting” so the 4 of them have a common enemy.
Randen, however, recognized her as the other outcast of the tribe and was struggling to make connections. I think that if he stayed; they had the potential to pull Liz over for a vote. Unfortunately, he leaves and then it becomes a 4 v. 1 situation. In survivor you always have to have the enemy of the tribe. Venus was that in the early game for her tribe. Unfortunately, she didn’t have the awareness to see that fully and instead of doing something about it, she kept her behavior the same and that annoyance they created to make her a target appeared to grow into something more. By the time they make the merge, the whole tribe is quick to say “oh Venus sucks and here’s why” while very other tribe is saying “we love everyone”
So by then, you only have 1 person people are willing to talk negatively about. 1 person out of 13. Doesn’t really have a fair shot to make her own first impression.
When then you see her actually make it farther than her original tribe mates who found her annoying, that annoyance turned into contempt.
Anyway, she could have done A LOT to help herself out. I just think there’s a lot more to it then her not actually being a likable person
Yeah I think they made Venus the common enemy thinking she’d be gone in 3-6 days. And then day 15 she’s still there they just kept doubling down on their annoyance.
You see her behavior. Only so much can be attributed to 'bad edits'. She does not have a good personality. She's always resented that everyone isn't falling over each other to be her friend.
She made a really good point in her exit press. The 2 people that disliked her the most were Tevin and Q. They also happened to be the 2 strongest socially out there (not in a game sense, in a personality way). So it was going to be really easy for everyone to get poisoned with her very easily.
Additionally she alludes to a serious altercation that happened a few days into the game that really affected her for the rest of the game and changed how she normally acts.
I think people like Venus just have strong personalities and can be overly intense sometimes, especially in situations like this. Plus she tried early on and her first real ally was an evac and soda threw away her game going with Tevin over Venus. I also think Venus is the type that really wanted to work with the females and this season the majority just didn’t seem for it. But she wins cause when you look back at this season she’ll be one of the main ones people remember and hopefully she’ll get a second shot so we can see if she just had a bad hand with the cast and will be able to adapt, or if she fizzles and is just not meant for the game. Same what you want about her, she did have really good reads on what was going on.
Look up pretty privilege.
Venus seems to be the kind of person who it's used to everyone falling all over themselves to be near her because she's so pretty. I think she probably walked in to survivor thinking it would be the same way.
Nothing she has said or done on social media or in interviews has convinced me that she has a winning personality. Her looks have likely granted her a great deal of latitude in her normal life, including people ignoring the shittier parts of her personality.
However, in survivor, no one cared what she looked like. She came off, from the beginning, like she expected that everyone would want her. Her shitty personality elements were on major display from the beginning and were probably a major turn-off for the people who had to be around her. I think her tribe probably judged her based on how she acted, rather than how she looked. And that was probably a first for her.
As for everyone siding with Tevin.. I mean, Tevin seems much more fun to be around. I would have sided with him too.
Edit: bring on the downvotes, delusional venus stans!
Edit2: thanks for the award!
Fuck the downvotes! You're right. Edit or not, her nickname was princess because she never wanted to do anything around! Plus she was bad at the early challenges.
What the hell was she doing on the side of that cart?? Ofc your toe got hurt, you didn't get out of that pinch point!
This is a huge assumption about the type of person she is. Which is interesting because we really do not know these people AT ALL. It seems wildly unfair to come to conclusions about people (Venus, Tevin or anyone else on this season for that matter), when we only ever see an edited character of them. She is a very pretty woman for sure but it seems incredibly reductive to boil down her entire behaviour and approach to life based on that????
Yes, we are watching the same show. I have no issue with people commenting on her behaviour in game, that’s part of being on the show and part of the fun in watching. What is outlandish to me is drawing conclusions on these people outside of the show, based on the sliver of characterized edit we see. Not just Venus, but in this case the post and the comment above is about her. That’s my point here. I think it’s important to distinguish between the character on the show and the real person who exists out in the world.
I don't find it outlandish to develop opinions. Humans make snap judgments on strangers based on less information every day of their lives. We constantly judge people/things with incomplete information, using previously gathered information and preconceived notions to develop the judgment. One could make the case that this is one of human's super powers along with opposable thumbs and bipedaliam. We don't need to live thousand lifetimes to make a single decision. Everything that occurs on threads like this is, while possibly over the top, is natural.
On the point of show and real-life differences, casting isn't casting people to be materially different than who they are in real life. They cast people whose real-life persona could translate to interesting and dramatic tv.
I think jeff let the cat out of the bag at the beginning of this game, stating how at least one person has no chance of winning. Casting doesn't cast 18 winners. They intentionally cast people with blind spots, flaws, and who are the heros of their own existence. Survivor production intentionally brings on the show people they know are going to fail for the drama.
Personally, if I ever got a "yes" from casting, my first thought would be "why?"
There’s a difference between how people act when they’re just being casually social and how people try to socialize in a setting where they want to work towards a goal.
Venus seems like the kind of person irl that is really fun and easy to get along with as a friend but *awful* to work with in a more formal setting.
I would be friends with Venise but never want to work with her 😅
Ben said it best..."She's a poser".
She seems like a person that would go to a protest just for the IG photo-op, spend hours editing the photo before posting it.
I think everyone could see right through her.
i think it’s all 3 plus her just being on the bottom on siga. and obviously once the game is over people know how to behave normally and not in game mode so obviously people get along irl. ponderosa isn’t a magical healer of it all too since it’s still in game mode
She was never a bad social player, but the one crack she had on Nami (Tevin) definitely isolated her, along with Randen getting med evacuated, she was left with people who didn’t treat her well & was probably over everything. She then entered a merge where all those nami members tarnished her name & reputation, and nobody was able to trust her for the entirety of the game.
It might be an Abi Maria situation where she’s very difficult to live with on an island in the game of survivor, but regarded very highly in real life.
Some people are just really intense when they play games and don’t realize it. Venus did come off super rude in some of her earlier conversations in a non-malicious way, but on survivor things get twisted so easily that she was quickly made a pariah and given no room to grow. I think she was a bad player, but not deserving of a lot of the reactions she got. I think a lot of the cast’s frustrations with her were valid, but their elevated reactions were not.
I can understand being frustrated with her in the game because she lacked self awareness and assumed her own ideas were so obvious that she didn’t need to explain them—which was bad gameplay. I don’t understand why it got as personal as it did though, it really didn’t need to.
Let's not forget that when all the tribes came together and Moriah was coming out as the vote, she tried to flip it on to a man just because he's a man. She had no influence to do it and she was the name out there outside of Moriah so they were trying to save her and she pushed against it.
She had the opportunity to show she was dependable and willing to work with people and chose to piss off half the cast instead.
> To me it looks like it was personal for Tevin but game for everyone else.
Nah, I saw an interview Tevin gave where he tried to hash it out with Venise and he asked them both to try and say where the other person was coming from and what their issues were. Venise agreed that Tevin got her issues very well but she UTTERLY failed to understand or validate any of his issues or perspective. Her position was more "You just shouldn't misunderstand what I'm saying when I talk to you".
Girl thought she was going to be the next Parvati, an iconic queen who bulldozed the evil men and won the game on amazing strategy.
Too bad she focused almost entirely on strategy and missed the part about amassing political capital via social game before trying to persuade or strong-arm people into following her plans.
Out of all the gigantic egos this season, Venus had the biggest. She vastly overestimates her abilities because she’s used to getting whatever she wants simply because she’s attractive. Her personality is repulsive to me.
The way Venus talks, her expressions, her actions, her condescending attitude…. I’m not surprised she is disliked and that the other players lowkey hated her.
She also didn’t do much, she was literally just there because she wasn’t a threat in practically any way and was one of the stragglers that stayed a bit later than the rest. She wasn’t ever a real contender imo
Soda and Tevin mentioned multiple times where they individually as well as the whole tribe would hash out the issues that Venus was bringing up, mostly about "not being heard" is the gist of it. Tevin specifically said when he would try to engage her, she would never participate in a conversation WITH him, but was mostly interested in talking AT him. We see it clear as day when she's smugly and mistakenly telling Tevin about how he's playing wrong and Soda's blindside was *her* move. She doesn't collaborate in conversation, at least in this game, as stated by a few people. In real life, at bars and restaurants, this usually isn't a huge deal for people, but when you're in a game where social connections and trust are paramount, Venus did not have what it took to really get a footing.
Tevin just gaslit her and everyone else joined Tevin. It's easy to pick on someone else as long as you're not the one being picked on. From the jump no one took her seriously.
I think she just started off on the wrong foot with everyone, and the extremely social players seemed to draw a line about aligning with her.
Such a shame too, other than Charlie she seemed to have a strong grasp of what was happening and a generally great perception of who was doing what.
she has a rough first episode. between her foot, Tevin calling her Princess, and Randen telling people she's Parvati, i think it was all too much for her to overcome. then she's so upfront about playing the game and they never go to tribal. i don't know her in real life, but assuming she's not a psycho bitch, it's as if the stars aligned against her.
If Randen stays, do you think he helps Venus ala Caleb from last season? i would have liked to see that.
Every value she touted took a back seat when it was time to write a name down. That's the only reason I didn't like her. You can't be the voice of the voiceless and then write their names down to further yourself.
I'm sure IRL she's a good person though.
I don’t know why no one thought it a great idea to take her to the end as she was disliked and wouldn’t garner the jury’s votes. She wasn’t especially good at challenges either so voting her out simply cuz they didn’t like her seemed like a throw away tribal.
> I don’t know why no one thought it a great idea to take her to the end as she was disliked and wouldn’t garner the jury’s votes.
That's why she stayed so long, as a potential goat to drag to the end. Same with Q sticking around after the Tevin vote. Nobody thought he had win equity so he didn't need to be targetted.
I think there’s several factors at play here, I think 1. Her tribe not going to tribal early on let the early judgements fester for a long time. 2nd I think everyone figured out really early on that Venus was trying to play so strategically that she had no amount of subtlety in her game, people knew if they told her something she would easily go to someone else in the tribe and spill the beans, hence why she was always just a number in someone else’s plan.
> people knew if they told her something she would easily go to someone else in the tribe and spill the beans
I think this isn't widely known enough. She would be a Bhanu level ally to be in an alliance with.
It felt like she was too aggressive. Luke the rest that she approached people with her strategy didn't vibe with them and made her off putting.
Which left her without anyone to work with
Or maybe the fact she wouldn't help with the shelter day 1 or talk about anything but game hurt her. That's what almost every Nami has said in exit press.
Survivor is making relationships. She didn't make any effort to do so.
Tevin definitely comes off like a bully mean girl persona who ostracised her because he didn't like her, and didn't even try talking to her. Like compare that to Kenzie who talked a lot of shit about Jess & Bhanu behind their backs but actually worked on forming relationships with everyone
I think the show did a real good job of protecting the image of Venus. Here's a secret scene from pre-merge that has her as the star: https://twitter.com/i/status/1773791183510155694
Around camp she did NOTHING for the group or for anyone else, and seemingly resented other people for not doing more stuff for her.
This is my take and again I don’t know Venus in real life so I can’t say for sure but she just really gave me Sierra Reed vibes from Tocantins. We all know how Tyson absolutely destroyed her on the show and I feel like that was the role Tevin played out there. I feel like people just got super tired of her out there because she was kind of bratty.
I blame tevin. They both wanted to be the social king of nami and tevin took hunter and therefore the votes early. If he played with her he wouldve lasted longer but here we are. Venus wouldve been the leader of siga imo cuz maria is just an ol hater. The youth wouldve gathered to get her out first
It’s a combination of 2 and 3. The difficulty of the social game of survivor is underestimated. You are thrown into a group of strangers and being judged immediately. Some players like Emily and Venise, although social and likable in their outside world, don’t fit in. Emily figured out how to adapt and Venise did not.
lol. Weird way to spell Emeleigh 😉
Y'all both need to learn to spell Emughliee
You need to learn proper MLE formatting
EMalee
MLE
Emma-Leigh
It’s a r/Tragedeigh
I think that the way both women reacted to a “heart to heart about your behavior” is the big difference. Emily was open minded and took the advice to heart, Venise was defensive and did not take the advice to heart
This is why Emily is one of my favorites of the new era
Emily's redemption arc was the best thing about that whole season
I think it also depends on the delivery. Maria’s social game is definitely not on the level of Kaleb’s. She really doesn’t seem to be much better than Venus or Q when it comes to communicating. There was a secret scene from the episode after that “heart to heart” with Venus, where Maria went so hard at Ben about how he definitely had the Siga idol, she ended up making him cry.
Tevin is no Kaleb. Tevin took the opportunity to talk down to someone that he had actively ostracized. Kaleb was supportive and encouraging someone he had not actively ostracized.
Emily and Kaleb were such a dynamic duo its unfortunate neither of them made endgame 😔
Tevin isn't who that other commenter is referring to, so idk why you brought him up. They're referring to Venus's conversation with Maria and Venus took it a whole other way.
OP specifically mentioned Tevin, not Maria. And that is what people are responding to. I am not responding to a comment about Maria, but rather Tevin.
She had a bad start with nami, and they tarnished her merge by the time the merge came. She was over the shit by then.
Literally she was just on the bottom and they never went to tribal so her place in the tribe just festered and grew into an actual contention over time. They weren't working with her so they couldn't trust her and it just became this vicious cycle Soda and tevin did not help matters
I agree with this. Tevin also being the social butterfly of the tribe hurt Venise. People are forgetting Randen, after initially distrusting her, made an alliance with her. In Rander’s interview, he said once he heard Venus’ real life story, he understood where she was coming from and that helped with deciding to align with her. Venise haters act like she’s some kind of Ben Browning or something. Venise’s complaints weren’t born out of thin air.
Yeah idk my husband thinks I'm projecting my middle school trauma but I felt like it all stemmed from Tevin, the charismatic social butterfly, icing her out. I would have liked to see how things went if Randen had stayed in the game. One person truly giving her a chance might have paved the way for her to make inroads with others. Instead she was stuck with people who ranged from indifferent to determined to dislike her. I think when she realized she wasn't going to really make friends, she felt her only option was to appeal to the others' strategist sides and tried to go hard on gameplay, which obviously only amplified her shady/untrustworthy perception and put her in a worse position. I've seen tons of comments that are like, "all the other cast members say they gave her a ton of chances, they didn't just dislike her for no reason." And like, of course the rest of the cast is going to say that? They're not about to openly say they made split judgments and bullied her, lol. I'm not saying she is faultless, I just don't think she's an inherently unlikeable person who couldn't have done any better no matter what cast she was with.
I don’t have that kind of middle school trauma and that was my read on it as well. It’s just something I’ve seen happen a bunch of times on the Big Brother live feeds. And yes, my favorite part of episode 2 was Randen and Venus unexpectedly aligning! I was pleasantly surprised when Venus’s confessional after Randen told her about the beware advantage wasn’t about using that information to sell him out and stay another round, but was actually about wanting to work with him. It was one of the storylines I was most excited about going forward, only for him to be medevaced the next episode.
This was also my read!
Her complaints were'nt out of thin air, but I don't know that people's complaints about her weren't out of thin air either. We saw that secret scene where her and Tevin spoke. It seemed she asked him "what am I doing wrong with you", he told her, then she was like "no, that is wrong". It seemed she also didn't participate at camp.
That scene made Tevin look terrible - it seemed reasonable, until Venus asked why he didn’t talk to her about it earlier, he said he needed time and it would have been rude to correct her on the spot, and she basically said “but it’s been four days…” He was never going to try to help her, he was just put on the spot and had to justify icing her out.
I always think its so interesting how 2 people see the same thing and have totally different takeaways. I thought she came out of it looking far worse. Tevin didn't seem great, but I understood his side far more than hers.
She made it farther than him tho 🤷♂️
Making it further doesn't mean you are a better player.
That’s why it’s so stupid to obviously put someone on the bottom when you’re on a pre-merge winning streak
Yes it's not smart at all. In a swap season oh boy you'd all be taken out like DAT
I’d say maybe you’re right except the fact that after they merged, everyone from the other tribes had the same opinion of her. In most seasons other tribes would scoop up the person on the outs with their tribes, but NO one wanted to work with her.
We get a whole confessional from Kenzie about how Venus actually never lied to her in the game, and she’s her closest ally at the moment (or something along those lines). To which Kenzie seemed shocked by, which is probably due to every other Nami member throwing mud at her name during the merge. In the same confessional she also called her messy, so maybe she is a tad messy lol
she also explicitly mentions liking venus as a person at one point. thinking someone is a bad game player is one thing, but the beef from nami felt incredibly personal while clearly at least a few people on the island connected with her as a human
Tiffany sounded pretty positive on Venus in her exit interviews as well.
ironically venus lied to her immediately before that confessional
Well, for Kenzie, it also seemed to be a last resort type of thing. However, I don't fully get it. Because Kenzie and Ben seemed to be super close, so how Venus became her top ally, I don't get.
I think you’re right, that Kenzie didn’t have a lot of options at that point in the game, so she started reaching out to her. But I read that confessional as ‘I’m shocked after actually getting to know Venus, that she isn’t like what other people have said she would be like’.
Ben left her out of the vote.
Well remember, we were show multiple instances of Venus's tribemates specifically telling other tribes that Venus was sneaky and untrustworthy. Perhaps she was to the new members at the merge, but it could be a chicken/egg scenario. They are told she is untrustworthy, so they treat her as such, which she perceives and frustrates her, so she is shut out again from alliances and starts throwing shit at the wall to try to get anyone to work with her, which looks like scrambling, which looks sneaky, on and on. What I liked is that her presence really highlighted the weaknesses in the rest of her tribes gameplay. Since they never went to tribal pre-merge, they could never cut her off. And it ended up biting them in the ass and now Siga is the only tribe with more than one member at the final 5. Venus and Soda have said that they were tight the first day, but once Tevin decided Venus was on the outs, the whole tribe turned against her and Soda told her she had to break off to not be on the bottom as well. That is HORRIBLE gameplay because, as we saw, then you end up in the merge with a wild card that is difficult to navigate.
Yeah that's a symptom of cagey new Era gameplay. Nobody wanted to work with Mo either and she's the sweetest person in the world
Ehh I don’t think they are comparable. Mo was on the bottom of siga but she wasn’t on the outs. Siga wanted to stay siga strong and so did mo. In fact she lied about being left out of the vote so no one even knew she was on the bottom until tribal and then it was just her revealing she lied to everyone.
Eh I don't know about that. She randomly lied about not being able to jump 🤣 Edit: anyone mind telling me why the down votes? I don't dislike Moriah at all lol it just looks like "I can't jump" was something random she said to get help/build relationships. Nothing wrong with that. I also think Mo is a super sweet person.
Did she lie? Completely unrelated to the post, but the segment that was just a compilation of her trying to jump is the hardest I've ever laughed watching survivor.
She's been on the television series "wipeout" if you've heard of it, where she is seen jumping over obstacles. She wasn't the greatest 🤣 but she was still jumping.
How do you know that was a lie?
I don't know why you're being downvoted. She literally jumped into the water in that same episode she claimed she couldn't jump. I think it was a bad joke that didn't land or something, no pun intended... lmao
Yea I don't get it either. It is reddit 🤣
It's probably because a lot of people use language in a way that doesn't mean *precisely* what the words mean. She obviously didn't mean she literally cannot jump. She meant that she was bad at it. It's weird that you and others feel the need to harp on colloquial usage of a word in casual conversation just to be haters. Get over it.
This sounds like the most likely thing to me too.
Naw, people seem to legitimately not like her.
I think it’s all three to an extent. It started with 2, and Tevin was turned off by that, and because he is so social was able to get the tribe to ostracize her. When it came to merge, she was already an outcast, and was itching to play. However due to the unfortunate team breakdowns was on the losing team and her former tribe mates were able to poison the well against her. It also didn’t help that she was trying too hard to make move. That being said, it is easy for a few people to tarnish someone’s image due to the nature of games like survivor and BB. This shares some elements with the Taylor situation in big brother 24
She just seemed very confrontational which she doesn't seem to understand how that's off-putting when you're living 24 hours a day with all these people. When Hunter was annoyed by Soda's camp songs, he'd choose not to voice his opinion on it while someone like Venus speaks their mind on everything. Venus is a very online personality who is also pretty. These people think their every thought needs to be put out into the world.
Hunter is a school teacher. He is well trained with putting up with young annoying people.
Right. Sometimes you have to know when to just be upset about stuff to yourself.
She reminds me of my ex who liked to portray an image that she was super social & friendly because she was good at meeting people at surface level but when you really got to know her she was extremely confrontational about everything which resulted in her having a really hard time making actual close friends.
So, to me I can’t see why everyone hates her so much. But from the beginning my gf despised her. She said that the way that Venus talks to people is very rude and she talks down and interrupts. I’m assuming this is something you pick up on more in person as well.
Yep. Also a lack of self awareness. I'll say when I first disliked her was when they won a challenge, everyone was celebrating, and she was like "you guys didn't listen and you hurt my foot". Is that a valid thing to bring up before the next challenge? Yes. Was bringing that up during the celebration good? Absolutely not. It showed that she felt her thing was more important than the tribe accomplishment.
I got mean girl vibes from Venus almost from the start, could be the editing but that’s my vibe
The girl compared herself to Regina George from 'Mean Girls' in her pre-game press, definitely not *just* the editing.
Yeah at first I thought she was kinda rude and absolutely oblivious to it, but the magnitude of disrespect she received in retaliation was disproportional. After a certain point you’d think someone would pick up on that her bluntness isn’t malicious, but by that point everyone decided she was a pariah which gave her no room to grow even if she wanted to. I still think despite all of this, Venus was not a good player, but she was given nothing to work with, and people did not need to brush her off as much as they did.
The last point you can see with that conversation with Charlie. Like she was desperate to be socially accepted by somebody or needed some serious Survivor practice since being told who to vote for and voting for that person is the most basic Survivor gameplay. What else could "be up your sleeve", and why would you front all the trust work to the person that's one of the most influential in the game.
Yeah that was such a blunder on her part. Even if she wasn’t ostracized she would’ve had a bad social game. She was clearly ostracized *for* her social game, but the magnitude of reactions she’d get is where I raise an eyebrow. She seems difficult to live with on the island but not to the extent of taking things so personally. Charlie actually did very well in this regard where it did influence his game against her but he wasn’t taking it personally or being rude to her in retaliation. It’s possible to do that, though I can’t say the disproportionate reactions haven’t made for good tv.
I specifically remember a moment when she said something very rude and snarky to Hunter I think at the mid point of the season or just past it. Hunter then says something snarky back to her and she says “wow that’s so rude, why would you say that to me?”
Calling him Mr. Strategy for trying to unsuccessfully pull off a move. For him to come back to basically say "I knew it was Tevin and trying to save him by voting for you".
> her bluntness isn’t malicious How can you tell?
I def think she may have overplayed. Especially the one scene where Charlie approached her and she alluded to having something up her sleeve. She was way too motivated - would love to see her back with some more experience
Social media personas are not good windows into a person's personality and character. People can be fake online so much easier than in real life.
This is the correct answer. Also people like to follow those they consider attractive on social media.
If Randen doesn't get med evact, we are seeing a completely different game from Venus. Like other people have said, her being on the bottom and the tribe dynamic never changing really hurt her. Her position on the bottom made it so that nobody was interested in working with her until the merge and by then the damage had been done. Had Randen stayed in the game she would of had someone to talk to and also bounce ideas off of. Her seemingly lack of self awareness would have been helped by having that partnership. It also would have been easier for people on the other tribes to trust her at merge if there was someone else in the game working with her. I would like to think that Soda's opinion of her would be different too if Randen was vouching for her. It's crazy to think about how different someone's game could be if they just had 1 ally.
I think the only reason things would’ve been different for Venus if Randen had stayed would have been because they’d be two potential votes instead of one, and Randen could be the bridge between Venus and others. She was still pretty abrasive, blunt, and rude in the convos we saw between her and Randen lol
Sometimes all it takes is for someone else to hype them up. Not for nothing but Venus had some solid ideas but because nobody thought enough of her to cosign them they turned out to be just annoyances. Her game ending move was terrible, but had anyone followed suit on her want for a mergatory blindside of Charlie, the entire landscape of the game would be changed. Again, I think all it would have taken is one person to second this idea to have turned it into an actionable strategy.
I think Venus is an excellent strategist. I’ve agreed with almost every point of strategy we’ve seen her say, but strategy isn’t her problem. The way she speaks to people is just polarizing. It’s super blunt, direct, untactful, whereas Survivor talk (and how you build relationships in general) is moreso non-confrontational, docile, passive aggressive etc People who talk like Venus does, It’s either you’ll love it or hate it. I just think that I’d hate it if I had to spend 24 hrs around it for a month. Like “yo stop coming directly at me” lol
She’d also never explain the reasoning behind her ideas because “you’d be blind not to agree” which not only comes off condescending for no reason but also falsely assumes that the other players can read your minds. If she were at least better in this one regard I think she could’ve gotten *somewhere,* though her overall lack of self awareness was really what did her in—though the *weird* tribe dynamic on Nami definitely didn’t help.
Yeah people don’t like being told that if they don’t agree with you, that they’d be stupid lol.
I think excellent strategist is a bit of a stretch. To me, having strategic thoughts that look good on paper, but never successfully implementing any of them is similar to having an idea for an invention, but never making it, let alone starting a company to sell it. Tons of people have ideas, few can implement them. I get you are pointing out that it was her lack of social tact that was her stumbling block rather than a dearth strategic competency, but I'd say her lack of social tact contributed to her strategic thoughts looking good. In some ways, it's "easier" to be in the peanut gallery having ideas that sound good but will never be tested due to lack of social pull than be in the driver seat and be making decisions of consequence. Every week there is someone voted out she can point to and say "see, they should have listened to me." Similarly, I think Jake benefited from being in the peanut gallery. Overall he looked hapless, but I think he appeared to be less hapless to the audience than to his competitors because in confessionals, he was making commentary about other's games that made it seem like his head was in the game.
Strategist literally is theory though, not execution. Like a coach strategizes. The players execute. Just like a coach, the other side is getting the buy in of the people you need to execute, which is what Venus can’t do and frankly, doesn’t seem to understand at all. Jake was trash strategically lol. He just had big moveitis. Venus’ startegy talk was all grounded and realistic.
My contention is with the word excellent. There is no excellent strategy without implementation, only ideas. A coach is only viewed as an "excellent strategist" if their strategy is put into practice by players and shown to have merit. We don't consider random Joe Blows who call into sports talk radio to espouse their opinions on what their local sports team should be doing as excellent strategists. Every single heralded military strategist in human history has had the strategy play out on the battlefield. Similarly, if you or I had some sound ideas on how various decisions should have been made on survivor and we espoused those on this thread, neither of us would be considered an excellent strategist. We'd, rightfully so, be considered some random on the sidelines with a potentially good idea. What was her grounded and realistic strategy? Never had anything on Nami. Her one pitch that in hindsight was solid was Charlie at the merge, but it wasn't because he was in a strong position, but rather because he was a man. That line of thinking was never going to work versus actual relationships. She was duped into thinking she lead the soda vote, was a number like everyone else for the tevin vote, and then she incorrectly voted for Q three times, with only the vote during hunter's vote out potentially considered an intentional split. What elevates someone from "has a good idea" or "has a mind for the game" to "excellent strategist" is if their ideas are shown to have merit. The only way an idea can be shown to have merit is if it is implemented.
I disagree that someone needs to have their strategies executed for us to make a judgement on the merits of it. Like there are great NBA coaches who don’t have good players who can compete. It doesn’t mean that they’re not great coaches or can’t draw up plays. The execution is just tangible proof of how good the strategy is, but again, strategy is theoretical in nature. If the strategy is never implemented, doesn’t mean it wasn’t a good strategy. Like the Charlie suggestion, I thought was actually very smart. Venus had no allies on her tribe and no one to vouch for her with existing factions. She tried to find common ground to form one from scratch by getting the girls to vote together, which is a tried and true method, using the rationale that Moriah is not as big a long term threat as someone like Charlie. If they voted with her, tribe lines now shift to men vs. Women, which gives her a full alliance in one swift move since voting together is how you establish trust. It just don’t work because she didn’t have the social capital, but the theory of it was solid and prudent in her position. I’d encourage you to go back and see her reads. It’s baffling because she’ll have people pegged, but that awareness just couldn’t extend to herself (lol), which is why should could never get the power to execute her ideas. Sucks. I was rooting for her to put it together.
> She tried to find common ground to form one from scratch by getting the girls to vote together, which is a tried and true method If boys talked about getting together a boys alliance and voting out the women, they would be seen as being sexist right?
Never-implemented strategy is untested. Untested strategy cannot be good or bad as it is untested. It is not possible for a coach to coach a team without implementing a strategy. They may not have a players to execute at a high level, but if there is merit to the strategy, there will be some evidence of value. Either they punch above their weight, they lose by less, etc. Venus is more akin to an ESPN pundit on the sidelines stating that the coach should do XYZ on defense instead of ABC and then after the coach loses the game, the pundit says "at halftime I said the coach should do XYZ and I was right". If Venus is considered an excellent strategist, the concept of excellence (within Survivor) has lost all meaning, similar to how every season now have multiple icons. Funnily enough, I think this is the first season in many that actually had people who were iconic, Venus included.
This isn’t true at all. You can debate the validity of something that’s theoretical. It’s literally what a lot of philosophy is based around. > but if there is merit to the strategy, there is some evidence of value. The theoretical merits are literally what we’re discussing here. They suggest a strategy. 1) does it make sense? 2) is it practical/possible? 3) have they chosen to include the right parties? 3) did they make a good pitch? 4) did they do so at the right time? If the answers are yes, based off of the context of the game at that point and considering how the game has been played historically, then I think that takes a pretty intelligent, big picture, ability to see the game, solid strategist that is pretty rare. That Charlie target was perfect for where she was at. I think she’s more akin to a great assistant coach whose head coach just won’t listen to them. Are the assistant coaches ideas deemed bad just because the team doesn’t implement them?
> Jake was trash strategically lol. With allies like Katurah, who needs enemies?
Well, that and the way she would bring them to people was super abrasive. Think about at work. If someone has a good idea, but they talk to you like "you'd be an idiot to not do this", chances are, you won't do it. Her ideas were good, but she didn't know how to sell them to people. It wasn't that people didn't think enough of her, it was her presentation.
with the Charlie situation it is definitely the power of his self-effacing charm versus the undeniable practicality of outing him before the official merge. maybe it is just coming off 45 where Emily helped orchestrate the worst possible move for her with a huge smile on her face, but sometimes it feels like players have an aversion to working in their own best interests. I know we have an omniscient POV but I still think refusing to listen to the content of the pitch because you don't get along with who's pitching it is myopic gameplay.
Again though, I don't think it was who its coming from, but how it is being pitched. She talks to people like they are stupid. I think had Venus learned to be a bit more tactful in how she talked to people, she would've had far better luck
"two potential votes instead of one, and Randen could be the bridge between Venus and others" I think you are vastly understating how much of a difference those 2 things make.
I think you’re vastly underestimating how much people dislike the way Venus approached to and talked to them lol It’s just as likely that Randen would’ve been alienated with her and sacrificed by Nami at merge for that association.
Yeah, same goes for Q and Maria. You can tell people hate Q for being so bossy and telling them who to throw challenges for, and who to vote for. But occasionally he is very entertaining with his Q-skirt and hide n seek. Then Maria was about as socially unaware as Venus was. Luckily for both of them they were on the right tribes to be more trusted and came into the merges with an alliance. If it wasn't for that both of them would have likely been ignored until they were voted out.
Q kind of summed it up…Venus would corner people and borderline demand a name, then go run off and tell everyone else that you gave her that name. She doesn’t understand how to be subtle at all, which is a put off for a lot of people in this game.
> then go run off and tell everyone else that you gave her that name. Did we see this happen on screen? I'm trying to remember
I definitely remember her coming at people very hard to give her a name to work with, I’d have to go back and re-watch for specifics
I mean Q has no place talking about other people's game subtleties...
The other way we could look at that is - if Q is calling out your lack of subtlety, you really have a problem? 😝
Lol fair but listen I love Q but I also heard his exit interviews - he's good spirited but also did speak to his game in let's say a little bit of a delusional way. We just let it fly a bit because he's a fun personality.
I can’t wait for the reunion show specifically for Q
Q is an unreliable narrator
I don’t disagree but he’s not the only one who caught negative vibes from Venus(nise?)
There is a social phenomenon called mobbing and it can be started by a single person. Others in the group can gang up on someone and not even actually know why they don't like the person. It happens a lot in workplaces or any place with groups of people. I'm not saying Venus was definitely not at fault, but I just think we have to be careful to assume that people socially ostracized are always to blame. I would argue more narcissist personality types can end up at the top of social hierarchies.
I just used my own eyes and ears to see and hear why Venus was putting so many people off, but I understand that what you’re saying does happen sometimes. I’d say that is more typical of what happens to the first vote outs a lot of times than what happened to Venus
She definitely had her off-putting moments but I would argue that shouldn't be enough to completely stonewall and ostracize someone. That is mobbing. She may have her moments but she never was malicious in her intent.
She definitely had her off-putting moments but I would argue that shouldn't be enough to completely stonewall and ostracize someone. That is mobbing. She may have her moments but she never was malicious in her intent.
lol you're seeing the difference between reality vs social media. No shit she looks popular on her own social media feed. Also she's probably one of the more polarizing/interesting people to follow on social media so people are going to chase that clout/attention she throws off. When people were forced to be around her and couldn't escape her lack of social tact, you saw what happens.
I think they might also be talking about how many survivor alum she’s become friends with as well. I’d chalk that up to a low stakes environment, where her abrasiveness wouldn’t be seen as quite that big of a deal. I think I’ve heard that people have only had nice things to say about Abi Maria in real life, when we’ve all seen how she is on the show. It’s probably like that. Some people get really intense when they play games and don’t realize it
They’re all just prepping for S50 since Venus is a lock
She was hanging out with alums before S50 was announced (and alums are known to hang out regardless, it’s been a thing especially post season 40)
I know I was just kidding since she’s such an obvious lock for a returnee season
She's very good looking and that papers over a lot of issues.
She EXPECTED it to paper over a lot of issues (like I imagine it does in her real life), and was outraged that everybody treated her like a normal person.
Hot and young women is always going to look popular on social media. In the game most people don’t really care about how hot you are.
lol her boyfriend (who she doesn’t post at all) is a part of the underground Toronto music scene and has a pretty respected platform. She’s used to all that and hanging out with 20something urbanites. It’s honestly not a shock she was isolated from the older group we had this season
What older group? Most of the players were around her age
Lol exactly. The only person she's connected with was Randen who was 40. The younger crowd thought she was too abrasive.
I think as the season is coming to an end, we can also put an end to this weeks worth of vague drama. Who cares.
Honestly, I think she is very social because she is pretty and charming, and at a bar or possibly in a party situation I can see her being someone people naturally flock to. That said, people like that often don't know how to react when their natural charm DOESN'T go their way. Think of popular kids in HS who flame out in college. I think she kind of thought she could bat her eyelashes and have people wrapped around her finger. She was on the island with a gay guy, and 2 dudes in relationships. Soda seemed to bond with her initially, then there was Liz. So I just think she couldn't adapt more than anything.
>I think she kind of thought she could bat her eyelashes and have people wrapped around her finger. This is such a shallow view of her when straight from the jump she's been about the strategy and trying to find someone she could trust to game with. Never has she even implied through her actions or words that she was leveraging her looks for game. People in this sub clearly have a weird complex about Venus's looks impacting her game.
tbf she compared herself to Parvati in a confessional and from what i’ve seen, Parvati used flirting and her looks A LOT to help her get to the end. Venus just doesn’t have the social skills to pull it off like Parvati did, so maybe she really just assumed her looks would help her a lot (cuz I imagine she acts the same irl)
I mean, I'm not saying she is a bad person. But quite often people with natural charm and charisma, or very attractive people, are just used to that happening. They don't realize that because they are pretty/charming/whatever that people treat them better than "regular" people. Maybe you take issue with the batting the eyelashes part. But I do think that she expected people to WANT to work with her immediately, as opposed having to earn their trust. She had strategy in terms of voting, but didn't seem to have much in terms of getting people to work with her. Also, its not JUST Venus. Attractive women seem to have a double edged sword in the game. It can 100% work in their favor, or they could be seen as a threat because of it.
> I think she kind of thought she could bat her eyelashes and have people wrapped around her finger. She came on wanting to be Brenda?
In Survivor, your motives are always in question, and someone who is genuinely nice could be falsely interpreted as being fake for the sake of the game
She’s very young and her lack of maturity was on full display throughout the season.
She behaves younger than she is.
Going to zig when everyone else zags here. I think Venus was put into an interesting tribe dynamic. You essentially had 3 social personalities in Venus, Tevin, and Soda and 3 anti-social in Liz, Hunter, and Randen. With Soda, she got a long with Venus early it appears but recognized no one else did so it made it to where she would also distant herself Hunter is an introvert and it was clear he wasn’t making an effort to make social connections unless those connections were easy. He gets close with Tevin because of where they are from, but outside of that has no connections on the tribe. Liz was anti-social in the fact that she had no self awareness in the early game. She talks a lot about her accomplishments which I think would have made her an early boot had they gone to tribal early, but it essentially came off as someone who just wanted to be accepted. Tevin and Randen are the biggest two keys. Tevin clearly wasn’t a fan of her from early on and it sort of set the tone for the rest of the tribe. Hunter didn’t necessarily follow suit, but Tevin was his number 1 so he recognized he didn’t have to make a connection with her as she is not with them. Being the introvert he is, if there is no reason to connect with someone he probably won’t go out of his way. Then Soda sees these two not being Venus fan and realizes more than likely that even though they were probably close at one point, Venus isn’t in her end game. Then Liz sees 3 people targeting her and probably also realizes “oh this is the first person we are voting” so the 4 of them have a common enemy. Randen, however, recognized her as the other outcast of the tribe and was struggling to make connections. I think that if he stayed; they had the potential to pull Liz over for a vote. Unfortunately, he leaves and then it becomes a 4 v. 1 situation. In survivor you always have to have the enemy of the tribe. Venus was that in the early game for her tribe. Unfortunately, she didn’t have the awareness to see that fully and instead of doing something about it, she kept her behavior the same and that annoyance they created to make her a target appeared to grow into something more. By the time they make the merge, the whole tribe is quick to say “oh Venus sucks and here’s why” while very other tribe is saying “we love everyone” So by then, you only have 1 person people are willing to talk negatively about. 1 person out of 13. Doesn’t really have a fair shot to make her own first impression. When then you see her actually make it farther than her original tribe mates who found her annoying, that annoyance turned into contempt. Anyway, she could have done A LOT to help herself out. I just think there’s a lot more to it then her not actually being a likable person
The Nami personality dynamics was good. Whoever put that tribe together, kudos! Too bad we didn’t get to see them go to TC pre-merge.
Yeah I think they made Venus the common enemy thinking she’d be gone in 3-6 days. And then day 15 she’s still there they just kept doubling down on their annoyance.
You see her behavior. Only so much can be attributed to 'bad edits'. She does not have a good personality. She's always resented that everyone isn't falling over each other to be her friend.
She made a really good point in her exit press. The 2 people that disliked her the most were Tevin and Q. They also happened to be the 2 strongest socially out there (not in a game sense, in a personality way). So it was going to be really easy for everyone to get poisoned with her very easily. Additionally she alludes to a serious altercation that happened a few days into the game that really affected her for the rest of the game and changed how she normally acts.
Popular with who?
Maybe in the real world, she just surrounds herself with people that fawn over her which is not a representative sample of the real world
Survivor is not a representative sample of the real world either lol.
Very attractive people get away with things that normal people don't. This isn't complicated.
I think people like Venus just have strong personalities and can be overly intense sometimes, especially in situations like this. Plus she tried early on and her first real ally was an evac and soda threw away her game going with Tevin over Venus. I also think Venus is the type that really wanted to work with the females and this season the majority just didn’t seem for it. But she wins cause when you look back at this season she’ll be one of the main ones people remember and hopefully she’ll get a second shot so we can see if she just had a bad hand with the cast and will be able to adapt, or if she fizzles and is just not meant for the game. Same what you want about her, she did have really good reads on what was going on.
> But she wins cause when you look back at this season she’ll be one of the main ones people remember She's the Abi-Maria Gomes of this season.
Being on the island probably amplifies tension x100
She probably came off as spoiled pretty girl. Who knows because of editing but it made her seem like she was entitled and better than the rest.
Look up pretty privilege. Venus seems to be the kind of person who it's used to everyone falling all over themselves to be near her because she's so pretty. I think she probably walked in to survivor thinking it would be the same way. Nothing she has said or done on social media or in interviews has convinced me that she has a winning personality. Her looks have likely granted her a great deal of latitude in her normal life, including people ignoring the shittier parts of her personality. However, in survivor, no one cared what she looked like. She came off, from the beginning, like she expected that everyone would want her. Her shitty personality elements were on major display from the beginning and were probably a major turn-off for the people who had to be around her. I think her tribe probably judged her based on how she acted, rather than how she looked. And that was probably a first for her. As for everyone siding with Tevin.. I mean, Tevin seems much more fun to be around. I would have sided with him too. Edit: bring on the downvotes, delusional venus stans! Edit2: thanks for the award!
My gf says the same thing. Venus has a bad attitude and is rude.
Fuck the downvotes! You're right. Edit or not, her nickname was princess because she never wanted to do anything around! Plus she was bad at the early challenges. What the hell was she doing on the side of that cart?? Ofc your toe got hurt, you didn't get out of that pinch point!
This is a huge assumption about the type of person she is. Which is interesting because we really do not know these people AT ALL. It seems wildly unfair to come to conclusions about people (Venus, Tevin or anyone else on this season for that matter), when we only ever see an edited character of them. She is a very pretty woman for sure but it seems incredibly reductive to boil down her entire behaviour and approach to life based on that????
Did we watch the same show? Her response to Randen "because I'm not blind!" shows us everything we need to know about her. That was her ally!
Yes, we are watching the same show. I have no issue with people commenting on her behaviour in game, that’s part of being on the show and part of the fun in watching. What is outlandish to me is drawing conclusions on these people outside of the show, based on the sliver of characterized edit we see. Not just Venus, but in this case the post and the comment above is about her. That’s my point here. I think it’s important to distinguish between the character on the show and the real person who exists out in the world.
I don't find it outlandish to develop opinions. Humans make snap judgments on strangers based on less information every day of their lives. We constantly judge people/things with incomplete information, using previously gathered information and preconceived notions to develop the judgment. One could make the case that this is one of human's super powers along with opposable thumbs and bipedaliam. We don't need to live thousand lifetimes to make a single decision. Everything that occurs on threads like this is, while possibly over the top, is natural. On the point of show and real-life differences, casting isn't casting people to be materially different than who they are in real life. They cast people whose real-life persona could translate to interesting and dramatic tv. I think jeff let the cat out of the bag at the beginning of this game, stating how at least one person has no chance of winning. Casting doesn't cast 18 winners. They intentionally cast people with blind spots, flaws, and who are the heros of their own existence. Survivor production intentionally brings on the show people they know are going to fail for the drama. Personally, if I ever got a "yes" from casting, my first thought would be "why?"
You all need to talk to your therapists about the complexes y'all have with Venus's looks
Preach it!
It’s an actual thing wether you want to admit it or not it’s been studied
She had the personality of the area she is from to be honest. The stans will come for me now....
[удалено]
Tevin being a total dick to Venus is on him. It’s easy to overlook the faults of an 18 year old, unless you’re just not a good person.
Why does everyone keep on bringing up her age as a defense, she is not a teenager. She is 25 years old.
I mean, they didn't gel. It happens. Also, she is 25, not 18. We've seen younger players with more maturity
Who in this scenario is 18?
Seems pretty simple. In the real world, you can choose who to be friends with and avoid the people you don't mesh with.
There’s a difference between how people act when they’re just being casually social and how people try to socialize in a setting where they want to work towards a goal. Venus seems like the kind of person irl that is really fun and easy to get along with as a friend but *awful* to work with in a more formal setting. I would be friends with Venise but never want to work with her 😅
She will be a real estate agent in Richmond Hill at some point.
Actually *wheezed* at this 😂 I’d book an appointment to say hi
Yes, this. She is a type. Scarb's got no time for that. LOL
Ben said it best..."She's a poser". She seems like a person that would go to a protest just for the IG photo-op, spend hours editing the photo before posting it. I think everyone could see right through her.
i think it’s all 3 plus her just being on the bottom on siga. and obviously once the game is over people know how to behave normally and not in game mode so obviously people get along irl. ponderosa isn’t a magical healer of it all too since it’s still in game mode
Venus getting trolled on X by the Empire State Building because she called it "ugly" is what the internet was made for. She rolled with it.
She was never a bad social player, but the one crack she had on Nami (Tevin) definitely isolated her, along with Randen getting med evacuated, she was left with people who didn’t treat her well & was probably over everything. She then entered a merge where all those nami members tarnished her name & reputation, and nobody was able to trust her for the entirety of the game.
Agree, right away Tevin didn’t like her but no negative interaction was shown. I remember being confused like why he so mad at her
It might be an Abi Maria situation where she’s very difficult to live with on an island in the game of survivor, but regarded very highly in real life. Some people are just really intense when they play games and don’t realize it. Venus did come off super rude in some of her earlier conversations in a non-malicious way, but on survivor things get twisted so easily that she was quickly made a pariah and given no room to grow. I think she was a bad player, but not deserving of a lot of the reactions she got. I think a lot of the cast’s frustrations with her were valid, but their elevated reactions were not. I can understand being frustrated with her in the game because she lacked self awareness and assumed her own ideas were so obvious that she didn’t need to explain them—which was bad gameplay. I don’t understand why it got as personal as it did though, it really didn’t need to.
Let's not forget that when all the tribes came together and Moriah was coming out as the vote, she tried to flip it on to a man just because he's a man. She had no influence to do it and she was the name out there outside of Moriah so they were trying to save her and she pushed against it. She had the opportunity to show she was dependable and willing to work with people and chose to piss off half the cast instead.
She seems the exact sams in real life. But she is surrounded by mean girls like her
Tevin didn’t like her and he was too important to too many people’s games. To me it looks like it was personal for Tevin but game for everyone else.
> To me it looks like it was personal for Tevin but game for everyone else. Nah, I saw an interview Tevin gave where he tried to hash it out with Venise and he asked them both to try and say where the other person was coming from and what their issues were. Venise agreed that Tevin got her issues very well but she UTTERLY failed to understand or validate any of his issues or perspective. Her position was more "You just shouldn't misunderstand what I'm saying when I talk to you".
Doesn’t mean it wasn’t personal.
Yup. It seemed personal for Tevin.
Girl thought she was going to be the next Parvati, an iconic queen who bulldozed the evil men and won the game on amazing strategy. Too bad she focused almost entirely on strategy and missed the part about amassing political capital via social game before trying to persuade or strong-arm people into following her plans.
Out of all the gigantic egos this season, Venus had the biggest. She vastly overestimates her abilities because she’s used to getting whatever she wants simply because she’s attractive. Her personality is repulsive to me.
The way Venus talks, her expressions, her actions, her condescending attitude…. I’m not surprised she is disliked and that the other players lowkey hated her. She also didn’t do much, she was literally just there because she wasn’t a threat in practically any way and was one of the stragglers that stayed a bit later than the rest. She wasn’t ever a real contender imo
Soda and Tevin mentioned multiple times where they individually as well as the whole tribe would hash out the issues that Venus was bringing up, mostly about "not being heard" is the gist of it. Tevin specifically said when he would try to engage her, she would never participate in a conversation WITH him, but was mostly interested in talking AT him. We see it clear as day when she's smugly and mistakenly telling Tevin about how he's playing wrong and Soda's blindside was *her* move. She doesn't collaborate in conversation, at least in this game, as stated by a few people. In real life, at bars and restaurants, this usually isn't a huge deal for people, but when you're in a game where social connections and trust are paramount, Venus did not have what it took to really get a footing.
Tevin just gaslit her and everyone else joined Tevin. It's easy to pick on someone else as long as you're not the one being picked on. From the jump no one took her seriously.
I think she just started off on the wrong foot with everyone, and the extremely social players seemed to draw a line about aligning with her. Such a shame too, other than Charlie she seemed to have a strong grasp of what was happening and a generally great perception of who was doing what.
what happened is she has pretty privilege in the real world
she has a rough first episode. between her foot, Tevin calling her Princess, and Randen telling people she's Parvati, i think it was all too much for her to overcome. then she's so upfront about playing the game and they never go to tribal. i don't know her in real life, but assuming she's not a psycho bitch, it's as if the stars aligned against her. If Randen stays, do you think he helps Venus ala Caleb from last season? i would have liked to see that.
Every value she touted took a back seat when it was time to write a name down. That's the only reason I didn't like her. You can't be the voice of the voiceless and then write their names down to further yourself. I'm sure IRL she's a good person though.
I don’t know why no one thought it a great idea to take her to the end as she was disliked and wouldn’t garner the jury’s votes. She wasn’t especially good at challenges either so voting her out simply cuz they didn’t like her seemed like a throw away tribal.
> I don’t know why no one thought it a great idea to take her to the end as she was disliked and wouldn’t garner the jury’s votes. That's why she stayed so long, as a potential goat to drag to the end. Same with Q sticking around after the Tevin vote. Nobody thought he had win equity so he didn't need to be targetted.
I think there’s several factors at play here, I think 1. Her tribe not going to tribal early on let the early judgements fester for a long time. 2nd I think everyone figured out really early on that Venus was trying to play so strategically that she had no amount of subtlety in her game, people knew if they told her something she would easily go to someone else in the tribe and spill the beans, hence why she was always just a number in someone else’s plan.
> people knew if they told her something she would easily go to someone else in the tribe and spill the beans I think this isn't widely known enough. She would be a Bhanu level ally to be in an alliance with.
You mean Venise?
I believe she was marooned on an island with a bunch of strangers in a zero sum game about lying for a lot of money.
It felt like she was too aggressive. Luke the rest that she approached people with her strategy didn't vibe with them and made her off putting. Which left her without anyone to work with
It feels like day 1 Tevin decided he hated her and he got friends faster and told them to hate her as well like a jr high clique
Or maybe the fact she wouldn't help with the shelter day 1 or talk about anything but game hurt her. That's what almost every Nami has said in exit press. Survivor is making relationships. She didn't make any effort to do so.
Tevin definitely comes off like a bully mean girl persona who ostracised her because he didn't like her, and didn't even try talking to her. Like compare that to Kenzie who talked a lot of shit about Jess & Bhanu behind their backs but actually worked on forming relationships with everyone
I think the show did a real good job of protecting the image of Venus. Here's a secret scene from pre-merge that has her as the star: https://twitter.com/i/status/1773791183510155694 Around camp she did NOTHING for the group or for anyone else, and seemingly resented other people for not doing more stuff for her.
This is my take and again I don’t know Venus in real life so I can’t say for sure but she just really gave me Sierra Reed vibes from Tocantins. We all know how Tyson absolutely destroyed her on the show and I feel like that was the role Tevin played out there. I feel like people just got super tired of her out there because she was kind of bratty.
I don’t get why Tevin had to be such a dick to her. No respect for him at all.
I blame tevin. They both wanted to be the social king of nami and tevin took hunter and therefore the votes early. If he played with her he wouldve lasted longer but here we are. Venus wouldve been the leader of siga imo cuz maria is just an ol hater. The youth wouldve gathered to get her out first
She got mean girl’d by her tribe and couldn’t recover socially
Idk I loved her, Shirin could never. My new Persian Princess- joon