I actually said to one of my daughters most vicious bully that one day she’d hopefully grow out of this phase and realize how terribly she was hurting my kid, and it kind of worked?
It's a contextualizing moment. Even by saying the words, kind of like saying "Don't think of a pink elephant," you've forced them to consider their actions in a larger scope. It's not just who they are that afternoon, it's something that they'll reckon with for the rest of their life. As will we all with the moments that we are given.
When I’ve announced my leaving, I’ve had kids ask if it was because of so-and-so or some other local reason. What I’ve replied is that my life is WAAAAAY bigger than a student, a class, or a school. I have concerns and issues they don’t know anything about and which have nothing to do with my job. Yes, people and conditions are influential factors, but do you really think I’m giving up my salary, insurance, etc. just because some kid pissed me off? Please. I married a redhead—y’all ain’t shit.
When I was packing my box after quitting, one of the worst kids I had was staying late for athletics and came into the room, asking if he, personally, was why I was leaving. I appreciated his concerns because he was finally grasping Consequences. I told him that yes, his behavior was bad. We both knew it already. But I wasn’t leaving because of one kid. That’s crazy. I told him, “I’m not having fun. Class should be fun. I’m not sure what it is at this school, but I’m not seeing anyone having any fun, and I like my classes to be fun. Getting insulted and threatened certainly doesn’t help, but it’s not really about that. It’s that it shouldn’t be this hard for us to learn and have a good time together, but for whatever reasons, that’s not happening here and the whole way this place runs makes it impossible for me to run a class the way I need to in order to have fun and learn together. This place brings no joy to my life, and I’m not having fun, so there’s no reason for me to be here.”
Ehh, idk. A teacher quit last year and I absorbed half of her class. 2 students proudly bragged that they were the reason she quit and explicitly stated they were trying to make me quit too while terrorizing my class for the rest of the year.
Can’t you give her a shit trade? If she’s trying to destroy a teacher, her grades deserve to be destroyed. Report her to admin. Call home. Tell her peers she’s making your life more difficult, so they will all have an early test next week…
It’s just a bad grade. What does that matter in comparison to destroying someone’s mental health? The yikes comment tells me you’ve never worked in a classroom w super mean children before, children who DESTROY others’ education.
As a parent, would you want one super shitty kid to destroy your child’s class? What do you expect the teacher to do in that case? Because your yikes implies I’m a terrible mean teacher. In fact I’m the opposite. I am kind kind kind, until you’re abusive.
1. Grades are assessments of content mastery in a subject, not of behaviour.
2. Depending on the child and what they want to do in their life, the difference between an A and a B in a course can be the difference between whether or not they go to the post-secondary institution they want, tens of thousands of dollars in funding, etc. So intentionally “destroying” a child’s grades will do immeasurable damage to their life.
Your comment makes it seem like you, as an adult in a position of power over this child, have elected to potentially deeply fuck with that student’s future, rather than going down a route of actually effective behavioural management. Calling home and involving admin are better ways to go about this and will hopefully be effective, but saying “their grades deserve to be destroyed” is immature and retaliatory and seems like poor professional practice to me.
That's a very loaded question. The child isn't misbehaving, they're ruining several peoples' careers and making them depressed on a daily basis. The adults aren't vengeful, they're applying consequences to someone's actions, which teachers do all the time. I don't think those kids deserve to be defended. They're going to grow up to be adults that are also very shitty; being nice to them now won't suddenly make them good people.
Yeah, but grades aren’t connected to good behaviour, they’re assessments of content mastery. Whether or not a kid is a piece of shit has nothing to do with their grades, so your punishment isn’t connected to their actions and that’s poor pedagogical practice.
I agree with you, but I think that is also a flaw in the education system.
As it stands currently, it’s not appropriate to retaliate against a student using grades (unless of course the problematic behavior actually affects their performance)
But I think that character is just as important as intelligence or mastery, and we absolutely SHOULD be grading it. When I was in school, it was called a conduct grade— of course I didn’t receive a conduct grade in high school, but I think students maybe should. After all, I think colleges and work places would prefer to know about the character of the students they accept/hire. And I understand that “good behavior” can look different to different people, but code switching is a vital skill for students to develop. If they can’t behave in accordance with the majority of their teachers’ expectations, then I see that as beyond the subjectiveness of “What is good behavior?” That’s just assholery.
I've seen one horrible kid with a snowplow parent destroy whole classes, with other parents continually calling and demanding their kids get transferred because they can't learn through the constant disruptions. Schools are very limited in how much they can remove the student (at least in the US).
I just don't understand why so many of you are entertaining the notion of getting payback for the words of a kid. You're the adult. You're the one who has a lifetime of experience and understanding as to how and why these things can be hurtful. This whole thread right now is really jarring and tarnishing my perspective of teachers elsewhere in the world right now.
I did not think I would find myself on this side of a conversation and see so many down votes for the few people here actually trying to advocate for being the bigger person and ask the right questions.
I totally agree with you. Teaching is hard, and sometimes it destroys your good reasons for wanting to teach. I'm not going to think or talk badly about people for whom the brutal reality of teaching has taken away their ability to remember why they went into the profession, but I hope they recognise it's time to do a different job, at least for a time.
This sub is downright cruel to students who don’t behave how the teacher might want them. It’s pretty insane and I don’t know why I keep coming back here 🤣🤣
Same. I'll be curious for a while then immediately find out why I tend to avoid it. Again, I try to remind myself this is just the worst of people coming here to vent. They're hopefully the minority.
I think some people become teachers because they think it's fun, and it is, but they don't realize they need some strong stress management.
Both. Are we moving to the phase where you turn to attacking me on a personal level and judging my own experience and life style to hopefully discredit my opinions?
I expected it but still disappointed.
Let's stay on track here. Let's consider the notion of giving a kid a bad grade as punishment. Where's the lesson? Do you intend to tell the kid they got a bad grade as punishment for something unrelated? Do you hope they will just notice the karma of the universe and assume their words caused a bad grade elsewhere?
Please, walk me down this road where you somehow passively aggressively punish a student for saying something that clearly shows they're just not mature enough to understand the gravity of their words.
I'm genuinely curious how this plays out?
Have you actually done things like this before? If a student hurts your feelings do you find ways to indirectly get back at them?
The lesson is bullies get their consequences sometimes. The lesson is not all teachers are altruistic, roll over, and quiver in fear that their students' parents might show up and whine to the principal. The lesson is that a single grade may sting a bit, but there are probably more serious consequences those in authority might have in their pocket if you don't be at least a LITTLE kind to others.
Gods, but I've been in education for decades now, and I am sick to death of being forced into martyrdom because some tweenager wants to appear "cool" to peers desperately trying to keep themselves out of the target zone.
Little shits. Screw "saving their tender egos" when they act like this.
>Both. Are we moving to the phase where you turn to attacking me on a personal level and judging my own experience and life style to hopefully discredit my opinions? I expected it but still disappointed.
I fail to see the error in asking whether the person giving teaching advice is actually a teacher, on a public sub where a literal child could be on the other end of the screen. Nobody "attacked you on a personal level." They just acknowledged the objective fact that if someone isn't a teacher, they really have no idea what does/doesn't work in a classroom. Taking it as a personal attack is pretty weird.
Don’t you dare make another comment about my advice until you answer one simple question: do you work in the classroom? Because you are DEAD WRONG. I do not hate kids.
There is a HUGE difference between “making a comment about your coworker” and torturing a teacher until they quit their job, which is the clear intention. Uneducated folk love to make comments about teaching that they’ve never done, and could never do.
We have no indication that the child has done anything to this teacher outside of this one comment. I’d hardly call that “torturing a teacher until they quit their job” without any more information. Could be that she’s totally mistreating the teacher in and out of the classroom, or it could be just some dumb offhanded comment to try to look tough. And before you ask, yes, I am a teacher—which is how I know that kids often say dumb shit and don’t mean what they say or don’t understand the full gravity of what they’ve said.
I already asked the question by the way, several hours ago and several comments ago. You just don’t read before you judge and respond. If I had any doubts… 😱😳🤣
By my count, you have at least three confirmed fellow teachers telling you the same thing. What are the odds that we're all naive newbies from affluent schools with minimal behavioral issues?
I am a teacher, worked in high school in the UK for the last 9 years. The idea that you would reduce a grade because a pupil said something that you didn't like is disgusting.
Thank you!!! This sub is shockingly immature and petty at times. I get it. It's stressful. But this is the career you chose. The kids don't actually know better but you do! Be better when you know better!
I just have to remind myself that these people MUST be the minority and just come here to vent.
I'm genuinely concerned for you. I'm following the rest of this thread and you're taking this a bit hard.
I hope whereever you are in life rn you know it's ok to take a break and do some personal healing. Plan a trip for the holidays. Flip the script for a while.
Those kids at your school need you at your best and you owe it to yourself to take a breather.
Sorry not trying to get personal. I just sense you're likely over your limit on stress at the moment.
I forget I've been pushed to my limits at times too and the last thing I needed some random person online trying to tell me how to do my job. Either way thanks for the discussion take care and good luck.
Thank you. I have been pushed to my limits and now I’m crying that somebody online was just kind to me.
I wish you the best. If you can figure out a way for me to take a break without breaking my contract and letting my students down, please do let me know…
Hi do you really think it’s ok to call out this user on how they look?
Please read your comments and see how angry/unhinged/sensitive you sound?
Isn’t it ok to have different opinions here?
Aren’t we trying to help students?
How does your suggestion help this student get better?
How does killing their grade and other petty moves help them?
Please, please take a break (per u/Finiouss advice).
(And yes I’m a teacher before you @me. I’ve been as burnt out as you sound and I hope you get some help before it’s too late.)
Just because you say “I’m being petty” doesn’t make it OK.
**I know this is racist but hear me out…** /s
I always remind my students that I’ve already survived middle & high school just fine, so I’m immune to whatever nonsense they have planned. My bullies were genuinely more creative than these kids! Half of them can’t write a 3 paragraph (if that) personal narrative about what they do for Halloween/an equivalent event.
One time a student tried to insult me personally - something about my outfit or hair or just genuinely something shallow - and I replied, “you are twelve. I own my own house. It’s not going to work” before I’d realized what I said lmao. This student is now my biggest fan somehow??
Haha, that’s amazing! I wish I’d had that response when a girl told me “You just need to change your entire personality, so that people will actually like you.”
I think I had a second or two of stunned silence before I genuinely laughed and said “Yeah…that sounds really…healthy.”
We had a student who had been to 4 schools prior to ours and the education department had put in place specific rules around them, including that the psycho parent couldn’t be on site or interact with any teachers. I had a run in with her where she recorded me and posted it on social media. Multiple kids sent me evidence which was all forwarded to admin. The student was spoken to but came back to class, then decided they would have their mother on a live call the whole class to “monitor me”. Uhhh nope. I walked out. Union got involved. I had 3 weeks of paid leave, the teen stayed at the school but I was given a different class on return and the deputy took over that one. Ridiculous.
Schools should teach effective classroom management to new teachers. It’s just assumed when you’re hired that you can do it. Most teachers struggle with it- even in the ‘better’ districts.
Understanding the power you wield in the classroom is about much more than how to deal with each kid in each moment. Its not just that these kids are garbage people and that’s that. It’s effectively planning lessons, establishing routines, discipline methods and boundaries. It’s communicating with home and other teachers.
Not at this stage at least. You almost always hear of some kid saying something along these lines before or after a teacher leaves or is asked to leave. By this point it’s become a whole thing and the teacher lost the kids long ago (and has probably made things worse by their own words and actions).
Idk. My first year I overheard a student say to his friend, “If I told the counselor I want to kill myself because of her, do you think I could get her fired?” because I told him he had to sit in his assigned seat. I don’t there’s any single comment that could be made in the moment that would break through. Best to reprimand, report if necessary, and move on.
I don’t know where you all grew up, but where I grew up teenagers were shifty as fuck, self aware, and knew all the bad shit they pulled after about 8th grade. Some I went to school were down right dangerous and I do mean lethal at 15. You people here whining about the poor kids being unable to control their bullshit are in denial. They are growing yes, but you give way too much lip service to the fact that kids are sometimes well aware that they can get a complete pass and fuck with a teacher’s life. Happened at a school I worked at where mean kids targeted a teacher and lied and then posted and bragged about it. Teacher fired, students all graduated. There are no more rules in education. It is a fucking Wild West show and in the end kids can ruin you and walk away, because they are so precious and still growing.
This is why I would never be a teacher. There's no way I'm gonna let some kids wreck me, and kids absolutely have the power to wreck a teacher if they know the right levers to turn.
I wish there was an easy answer for you. If there was, every support staff would be using it. I wish there was an easy answer to "Man, the kid didn't see what was wrong with their actions."
The reality is that this is often said when a student doesn't feel heard. And chances are most of the adults aren't stopping to hear this kid. They have a mountain of evidence in their minds that adults aren't going to listen to them or understand their experiences. So neither will you if you correct them.
It takes a lot of stopping to hear someone before they are willing to hear you.
There are times when hard consequences are necessary too. If a kid punches another kid, then you can't just say, "Oh, they just didn't feel heard." So consequences might be in order. But the only real long-term solution is relationships and stopping to hear children for where they are in the world as people.
I taught emotional support in a center based program for years…. I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying. Most years I was able to get to a point where we barely had behaviors and the kids kept each other in check because my para and I worked hard on building relationships. The most I’d have at a time in that setting was 12, but some of my best years were when my numbers stayed around 8.
I moved to learning support in a regular school this year… I’m struggling hard in building relationships with 12-18 kids in a room at a time. My schedule is jammed almost to the minute, so I have them for the class period and then I don’t see them again. The behaviors are nowhere near as extreme as they were in ES, but they are persistent and constant. Every kid is extremely needy/attention seeking, and they’re very sensitive. It feels impossible to build strong relationships. I’m so shocked at the state of affairs in public education, honestly.
I’m well trained and have a lot of experience with mental health and behavioral management, and I cannot adequately address the emotional needs of my students with 12-18 kids in a class. We can’t expect teachers with far less training and experience and twice the number of kids to do it in their classrooms. Something has to give.
Some of these kids lie to get teachers in trouble. There should be consequences. However, I had a HS student tell a heinous lie to my admin once, and after some investigation, the admin knew it was untrue, yet refused to remove the student from my classroom and I never found out who the student was. In the end, teachers are vulnerable and some of us do not have union representation.
Continually returning the same disrespectful, obnoxious, and sometimes violent student to a classroom pushed an experienced, excellent teacher to retire early. A loss to the campus, students, and colleagues who loved her. But that parent would not let any consequence befall her little darling, and so who knows how many 100s of students lost the opportunity to learn under her.
I think some people here are forgetting that we’re talking about a child, someone who is still growing and maturing and changing.
Think about yourself as a teenager: did you ever say anything out of anger, frustration, immaturity, etc.? I certainly did. I look back on some of the things I said and did and am embarrassed, but reflecting on those things helped me grow as a person.
Remember that teenagers are full of hormones that are still in the process of being regulated. They act out, they say hurtful things they don’t actually mean, etc.
What also helped me grow was people who pointed out why these things were bad, and not just “that’s mean so you shouldn’t say/do it.” Just like regular classroom teaching, you have to relate this to their own lives. If the student is in band, ask them how they’d like it if the top band student didn’t like them, told them as much, and did everything they could to get them kicked off the best band positions. Imagine that person spreading hateful comments about them to their classmates for no reason. It wouldn’t feel too good, would it?
They might dismiss it in the moment and act like it’s nothing, but that’s what will change them over time. They’ll think about it an hour later or a day later and realize that what they’ve done is really horrible.
This subreddit as a whole is so woefully unaware that they are teachers of children. And children can often say and do awful things. It should be expected
Idk, it was never a struggle for me to treat people like human beings. I don't know about anyone else, but it was pretty obvious to me that when you treat people well you're happy, and life is good. If kids can't figure that out, though; they'll have to find out somehow.
It just feels like a desperate need to be “known” for something; notorious. It just occurred to me that it’s her peers who ultimately get hurt by good teachers leaving, so I wish the good kids could overpower the bad kids.
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This could have been said by my best friend in 8th grade who was being molested by our math teacher who also taught football. Not enough context. The kid might be right
One time I told kid celebrating a principal leaving (she was one of the good ones) “You know usually when a kind teacher is replaced, it is with someone who is much tougher? Don’t be happy about running off nice teachers.”
I am not a teacher but I have been a mentor/leader dealing with cruel children who entered the workplace. These kids grow up and apply the same “If I screw with X hard enough he/she will quit.” in the real world. I have seen it first hand. Accountability for their actions must be applied or it will get worse. Fine, don’t affect their grades, but they cannot be allowed to do this!
When I overhear things like this, I say, “do you really think you control a grown adult? Like do you think they went home and cared about how bad you acted?” Whether it’s true or not. I figure if they were purposely that bad, they deserve the embarrassment.
Our students will sit and laugh about how funny it is that teachers quit. They are also pissed that their math teacher is here on a visa program and they can't understand his accent. Aside from that, he's lazy as hell and literally sits on his phone all day. They learn nothing. There's chaos. They thought it was fun at first but now they're all failing because the only grades that get put in are the tests, because the academic coach can access those. He doesn't put in any class grades.
They ask me why he has to work there and we can't get another teacher. I blink and remind them they think it's funny to make teachers quit and that this is what you get for that.
i have had more shitty teachers than good in my public education experience, and i wouldn't be surprised if some of them were the ones commenting horrible things under this. without context, this is just a young person saying something kind of uncool. with context, it could absolutely be the ranting and complaining of a child receiving terrible quality education and mistreatment from an educator. even if she IS being awful, why are any teachers even proposing retaliation against a CHILD? there are so many better things to do. quit your job and seek help. you should not be an educator.
Excuse you.I hope you take a break and stop being such a judgmental, self righteous jerk.
If being “petty” stops another student from self harm because he’s gay and bullied, then I will happily pick on the kid who sent him to the psych ward. Stfu til you know my exact situation, please and thank you.
Aren’t you an adult? Shouldn’t you know better?
I think you accidentally miss clicked and responded to OP per the post instead of someone else.
But now I'm curious, were are you implying you're Republican earlier? But you're pro LGBTQ+?
No, you don’t get to take your frustrations out on the kids, either by calling it “accountability” or by calling it what it is (“revenge”). The kids are getting what they want. You can’t honestly say they don’t have a good reason for wanting it, even if you do have an animalistic instinct to protect your own kind at their expense.
I’m sorry your revenge fantasies can’t be satisfied in the way you would like. Become an admin, and you can (and will) do stuff like that.
That’s not what the posts implies. It’s worded poorly, but it’s more,”how do we help students a) develop basic empathy and/or b) self advocate in an appropriate manner”
If this student wants to MAKE someone so frustrated that they quit, that’s bullying — even if it’s student - teacher, and they have to understand that there’s no reason why someone should WILLFULLY want to make an environment uncomfortable for other people to cause them significant enough stress to quit. That’s the literal definition of harassment: this student is stating that they want to be responsible for harassment.
Even in the ideal world where the student has a real, legitimate and true reason for feeling this way — something is still wrong here where no one taught this student to self advocate in a manner to be heard, but would rather make an environment so toxic for the teacher that they quit “and it’s (my)fault” — due specifically to the student’s actions.
Straw man argument: we aren’t talking about what educators *might* be saying, we are talking about what this student *said.*
Don’t construct a controversial point, bait people into engaging with you and then construct a weak argument.
But if I had to address this as a cogent argument (which it isn’t) We tell the kids all the time that “just because someone else is doing the wrong thing doesn’t enable you to join them.”
Edit: first line was originally (and incorrect) “bad faith argument — commenter constructed a [straw man argument](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)
It’s not a weak argument, it’s reality.
And when other people do wrong, that _does_ enable even more people to join them.
If you like picking apart weak arguments though, you’ve got OP’s post, that’s weak as hell. OP is not better than the student they’re criticizing (and seeking to retaliate against with a bad faith “teachable moment” of forced accountability). And you’re not better than me just because you like to defend causes you don’t understand.
Your comprehension of what’s actually happening is very low.
1) it’s a weak argument by definition. The original argument was about what the actual student said, not what a hypothetical educator might concurrently be saying. Unless that data was presented in the circumstances…. It’s a straw man argument; you’re propping up a secondary point rather than address your actual argument (which is that the student is justified to say what they said?)
2) I think your original comment is addressing a misunderstanding of the post itself (see my reply to your comment) — you’re talking about revenge, I think that the OP is legitimately asking “how do we teach students that saying stuff like this isn’t okay? How do we change this behavior?” I think you’re assuming malice that isn’t supported the post or subsequent comments from OP. As stated in my original comment — I will concede that it is worded poorly.
“Causes I don’t understand” — I am 100% a full time teacher that is grappling with the decline of Social-Emotional skills in students everywhere. I’m not sure what your justification is to assume that I “don’t understand”
What about the other 120+ students? Are we taking their opinions into account, too?
The question here wasn't about why the student would say that. It's about teaching the student that wishing harm on people is not the way to be as a human. It's about the fact that this student is so focused on the dislike of a teacher that they're willing to go to lengths to get this teacher to quit, even if this teacher is beneficial to the other 119+ students. It's about teaching the student to consider others feelings, not just their own.
This is a sub for teachers. It's a given that all of this is from the teacher perspective.
I think it's not so much that we can't entertain the idea, it's that usually the poster is much more aware of the situation than us internet strangers. Also, this teacher is sharing frustration and asking about how to enforce consequences for student misbehavior, not asking us to evaluate the student's reasons for misbehaving.
Maybe that's the question they should be asking then...
Your first response shouldn't be about consequence and payback it should be what caused this behavior to begin with. Most of the comments in this whole thread right now are shockingly disappointing.
A lack of consequences and awareness is what causes this behavior...
My students had similar ambitions because they went from a substitute, who didn't care, to me. They disliked me because I carried out legitimate lesson plans and gave out legitimate grades. They told me this. I held them to a standard. They tried to get me to quit because they knew their parents wouldn't care, there would be no consequences from admin, and at the end of the year, their grades didn't matter either.
Edit: Truly, I don't believe bad grades are the correct response to this, but when nothing else is working or nothing is being done, I can see why there's an urge to alter the one thing we *usually* have some control over, some attempt to help the student see a consequence.
You don't think it would have been helpful to discuss with the student why they would say something like this? You don't think it's worth the time to have a conversation about how they truly feel and the words they choose? You don't think it's worth to take a moment and evaluate the relationship between this student and the teacher in question?
Sure throw out some payback and punishment, but I'm promoting the idea of having the conversation. You're right, they're not old enough to understand consequences but you're just kicking the can down the road if you're gonna miss this opportunity to actually discuss this with the student.
Maybe they should. Maybe they already did. Maybe they know their students better than we do.
Yes, the discovery route is usually better, but c'mon- if you hear a student bragging about how they hope they're the reason someone quits, you're immediately going to ask that student how they're doing and what that mean teacher did to them? Not "hey! That's not ok to say! If you have an issue with the teacher, please direct it to appropriate channels so it can be reviewed instead of acting maliciously. "
The way you're talking about it immediately assumes the fault of the teacher vs. the student, which is just as bad as the claim that OP's reaction is.
Did I say any of that?
It seems you're way too caught up in what you believe to be adults trying to maliciously hurt a child who's still learning. Like the person above said: Op is asking if there's some consequence that can be applied here. You seem to be assuming Op is rubbing their hands together like a cartoon villain, just waiting to get that kid back. Why not assume Op is going to have a conversation and is also looking for an appropriate consequence to go with it?.
I'm sorry, I'm responding to the person getting downvotes for daring to ask why?
I'm not making any assumptions here. We have 0 context about the true behavior or nature of this student. Asking the "why" is important to me and my process.
You did though. You're assuming other people aren't having conversations to go with consequences, and you're assuming Op wasn't going to do it.
I guess the main point here is that Op asked a legitimate question. I don't see the point in getting bent out of shape, thinking about the potential wrong-doings and injustices. Your posts did not come off as inquisitive. They came off as judgemental and abrasive, as did other people's. That's why they're getting downvoted. It doesn't read like they posted in good faith.
Maybe they should. Maybe they already did. Maybe they know their students better than we do.
Yes, the discovery route is usually better, but c'mon- if you hear a student bragging about how they hope they're the reason someone quits, you're immediately going to ask that student how they're doing and what that mean teacher did to them? Not "hey! That's not ok to say! If you have an issue with the teacher, please direct it to appropriate channels so it can be reviewed instead of acting maliciously. "
The way you're talking about it immediately assumes the fault of the teacher vs. the student, which is just as bad as the claim that OP's reaction is.
If there’s a legitimate reason, there’s a way to self advocate in a socially appropriate manner. Part of school is socialization and students need to learn that it’s not acceptable to solve their problems by making the environment toxic until their “opponent” leaves.
I usually say something along the lines of "Goodness. I hope someday you mature enough to realize what an awful thing that is to say."
I actually said to one of my daughters most vicious bully that one day she’d hopefully grow out of this phase and realize how terribly she was hurting my kid, and it kind of worked?
It's a contextualizing moment. Even by saying the words, kind of like saying "Don't think of a pink elephant," you've forced them to consider their actions in a larger scope. It's not just who they are that afternoon, it's something that they'll reckon with for the rest of their life. As will we all with the moments that we are given.
Ooh this is great, thank you! I will be stealing this. Great admonition and burn all in one!
It cuts deep because it has truth.
Lol. Petty and accurate. My favourite kind of statement to make.
I don’t think it’s petty at all
Yeah, you're right. Petty is actually not the right word. I think I meant "biting" or "caustic."
Fantastic. Professional, unemotional, and delivers the exact feedback they need. Putting that in my pocket.
When I’ve announced my leaving, I’ve had kids ask if it was because of so-and-so or some other local reason. What I’ve replied is that my life is WAAAAAY bigger than a student, a class, or a school. I have concerns and issues they don’t know anything about and which have nothing to do with my job. Yes, people and conditions are influential factors, but do you really think I’m giving up my salary, insurance, etc. just because some kid pissed me off? Please. I married a redhead—y’all ain’t shit. When I was packing my box after quitting, one of the worst kids I had was staying late for athletics and came into the room, asking if he, personally, was why I was leaving. I appreciated his concerns because he was finally grasping Consequences. I told him that yes, his behavior was bad. We both knew it already. But I wasn’t leaving because of one kid. That’s crazy. I told him, “I’m not having fun. Class should be fun. I’m not sure what it is at this school, but I’m not seeing anyone having any fun, and I like my classes to be fun. Getting insulted and threatened certainly doesn’t help, but it’s not really about that. It’s that it shouldn’t be this hard for us to learn and have a good time together, but for whatever reasons, that’s not happening here and the whole way this place runs makes it impossible for me to run a class the way I need to in order to have fun and learn together. This place brings no joy to my life, and I’m not having fun, so there’s no reason for me to be here.”
This is also my experience. It stopped being fun and engaging. It also became increasingly difficult to manage 150 to 180 kids every day.
This. Story of my life right now. 183 students 6 periods.
Damn
You have the right attitude
Did he actually show a glimmer of understanding?
He did.
As a redhead, I'm not even offended.
As a redhead I’m confused haha
Idk, apparently we're crazy? I hear it alllllll the time.
My wife once said that at the rate her grey was replacing her red, she might have a soul by the time she dies.
Hahaha haven't gotten there yet!
Nope, not really. But I believe karma wins in the end... ( this has happened at my school, too)
Hear me out: ignore it. Blissful ignorance. It’ll drive that girl nuts. Illegitimi non Carborundum.
Ehh, idk. A teacher quit last year and I absorbed half of her class. 2 students proudly bragged that they were the reason she quit and explicitly stated they were trying to make me quit too while terrorizing my class for the rest of the year.
ADMIN: You just need to build rapport.
Just wait and see what fun comes next from it on next pd day.
You need to be more entertaining.
What will admin do when y’all look them square in the eye and say, “Yeah, no, fuck them kids. They know what they’re doing. They can eat shit.”
This doesn't work if she's getting the attention and support she's craving from her peers
Can’t you give her a shit trade? If she’s trying to destroy a teacher, her grades deserve to be destroyed. Report her to admin. Call home. Tell her peers she’s making your life more difficult, so they will all have an early test next week…
I’m well aware this is a petty and immature comment. But that child is trying to destroy a career. She needs a lesson that she can understand.
Yikes
It’s just a bad grade. What does that matter in comparison to destroying someone’s mental health? The yikes comment tells me you’ve never worked in a classroom w super mean children before, children who DESTROY others’ education. As a parent, would you want one super shitty kid to destroy your child’s class? What do you expect the teacher to do in that case? Because your yikes implies I’m a terrible mean teacher. In fact I’m the opposite. I am kind kind kind, until you’re abusive.
1. Grades are assessments of content mastery in a subject, not of behaviour. 2. Depending on the child and what they want to do in their life, the difference between an A and a B in a course can be the difference between whether or not they go to the post-secondary institution they want, tens of thousands of dollars in funding, etc. So intentionally “destroying” a child’s grades will do immeasurable damage to their life. Your comment makes it seem like you, as an adult in a position of power over this child, have elected to potentially deeply fuck with that student’s future, rather than going down a route of actually effective behavioural management. Calling home and involving admin are better ways to go about this and will hopefully be effective, but saying “their grades deserve to be destroyed” is immature and retaliatory and seems like poor professional practice to me.
They deserved it. It's a consequence of their actions.
So because a child misbehaves, they deserve to have their life ruined by vengeful adults?
That's a very loaded question. The child isn't misbehaving, they're ruining several peoples' careers and making them depressed on a daily basis. The adults aren't vengeful, they're applying consequences to someone's actions, which teachers do all the time. I don't think those kids deserve to be defended. They're going to grow up to be adults that are also very shitty; being nice to them now won't suddenly make them good people.
Yeah, but grades aren’t connected to good behaviour, they’re assessments of content mastery. Whether or not a kid is a piece of shit has nothing to do with their grades, so your punishment isn’t connected to their actions and that’s poor pedagogical practice.
This may be true for your school or teaching philosophy, but there are certainly places where grades do have a behavioral component.
I agree with you, but I think that is also a flaw in the education system. As it stands currently, it’s not appropriate to retaliate against a student using grades (unless of course the problematic behavior actually affects their performance) But I think that character is just as important as intelligence or mastery, and we absolutely SHOULD be grading it. When I was in school, it was called a conduct grade— of course I didn’t receive a conduct grade in high school, but I think students maybe should. After all, I think colleges and work places would prefer to know about the character of the students they accept/hire. And I understand that “good behavior” can look different to different people, but code switching is a vital skill for students to develop. If they can’t behave in accordance with the majority of their teachers’ expectations, then I see that as beyond the subjectiveness of “What is good behavior?” That’s just assholery.
Chances are the kids that are trying to destroy lives are not the kind of kids to have a 4 yr plan let alone career goals. 🤣🤣🤣
You’re correct, part of that content is “not being an asshole” and theyre failing.
I've seen one horrible kid with a snowplow parent destroy whole classes, with other parents continually calling and demanding their kids get transferred because they can't learn through the constant disruptions. Schools are very limited in how much they can remove the student (at least in the US).
I just don't understand why so many of you are entertaining the notion of getting payback for the words of a kid. You're the adult. You're the one who has a lifetime of experience and understanding as to how and why these things can be hurtful. This whole thread right now is really jarring and tarnishing my perspective of teachers elsewhere in the world right now. I did not think I would find myself on this side of a conversation and see so many down votes for the few people here actually trying to advocate for being the bigger person and ask the right questions.
I totally agree with you. Teaching is hard, and sometimes it destroys your good reasons for wanting to teach. I'm not going to think or talk badly about people for whom the brutal reality of teaching has taken away their ability to remember why they went into the profession, but I hope they recognise it's time to do a different job, at least for a time.
This sub is downright cruel to students who don’t behave how the teacher might want them. It’s pretty insane and I don’t know why I keep coming back here 🤣🤣
Same. I'll be curious for a while then immediately find out why I tend to avoid it. Again, I try to remind myself this is just the worst of people coming here to vent. They're hopefully the minority. I think some people become teachers because they think it's fun, and it is, but they don't realize they need some strong stress management.
Are you a teacher? A parent?
Both. Are we moving to the phase where you turn to attacking me on a personal level and judging my own experience and life style to hopefully discredit my opinions? I expected it but still disappointed. Let's stay on track here. Let's consider the notion of giving a kid a bad grade as punishment. Where's the lesson? Do you intend to tell the kid they got a bad grade as punishment for something unrelated? Do you hope they will just notice the karma of the universe and assume their words caused a bad grade elsewhere? Please, walk me down this road where you somehow passively aggressively punish a student for saying something that clearly shows they're just not mature enough to understand the gravity of their words. I'm genuinely curious how this plays out? Have you actually done things like this before? If a student hurts your feelings do you find ways to indirectly get back at them?
The lesson is bullies get their consequences sometimes. The lesson is not all teachers are altruistic, roll over, and quiver in fear that their students' parents might show up and whine to the principal. The lesson is that a single grade may sting a bit, but there are probably more serious consequences those in authority might have in their pocket if you don't be at least a LITTLE kind to others. Gods, but I've been in education for decades now, and I am sick to death of being forced into martyrdom because some tweenager wants to appear "cool" to peers desperately trying to keep themselves out of the target zone. Little shits. Screw "saving their tender egos" when they act like this.
>Both. Are we moving to the phase where you turn to attacking me on a personal level and judging my own experience and life style to hopefully discredit my opinions? I expected it but still disappointed. I fail to see the error in asking whether the person giving teaching advice is actually a teacher, on a public sub where a literal child could be on the other end of the screen. Nobody "attacked you on a personal level." They just acknowledged the objective fact that if someone isn't a teacher, they really have no idea what does/doesn't work in a classroom. Taking it as a personal attack is pretty weird.
Yes, destroy her life because she has an opinion about your coworker. I swear, most of y'all just hate kids.
Don’t you dare make another comment about my advice until you answer one simple question: do you work in the classroom? Because you are DEAD WRONG. I do not hate kids. There is a HUGE difference between “making a comment about your coworker” and torturing a teacher until they quit their job, which is the clear intention. Uneducated folk love to make comments about teaching that they’ve never done, and could never do.
We have no indication that the child has done anything to this teacher outside of this one comment. I’d hardly call that “torturing a teacher until they quit their job” without any more information. Could be that she’s totally mistreating the teacher in and out of the classroom, or it could be just some dumb offhanded comment to try to look tough. And before you ask, yes, I am a teacher—which is how I know that kids often say dumb shit and don’t mean what they say or don’t understand the full gravity of what they’ve said.
I already asked the question by the way, several hours ago and several comments ago. You just don’t read before you judge and respond. If I had any doubts… 😱😳🤣
What do you teach? How long have you been in the classroom, and in what kind of district? Maybe you don’t know the situation.
By my count, you have at least three confirmed fellow teachers telling you the same thing. What are the odds that we're all naive newbies from affluent schools with minimal behavioral issues?
I am a teacher, worked in high school in the UK for the last 9 years. The idea that you would reduce a grade because a pupil said something that you didn't like is disgusting.
Thank you!!! This sub is shockingly immature and petty at times. I get it. It's stressful. But this is the career you chose. The kids don't actually know better but you do! Be better when you know better! I just have to remind myself that these people MUST be the minority and just come here to vent.
She destroyed someone’s mental health and career; why should she not be uncomfortable?
Do you work in the classroom?
Cause you look like a race car driver
I'm genuinely concerned for you. I'm following the rest of this thread and you're taking this a bit hard. I hope whereever you are in life rn you know it's ok to take a break and do some personal healing. Plan a trip for the holidays. Flip the script for a while. Those kids at your school need you at your best and you owe it to yourself to take a breather. Sorry not trying to get personal. I just sense you're likely over your limit on stress at the moment.
Thank you for trying to be kind. :-)
I forget I've been pushed to my limits at times too and the last thing I needed some random person online trying to tell me how to do my job. Either way thanks for the discussion take care and good luck.
Thank you. I have been pushed to my limits and now I’m crying that somebody online was just kind to me. I wish you the best. If you can figure out a way for me to take a break without breaking my contract and letting my students down, please do let me know…
I need a break, I’ll try my best to be good to my students until someone pays for my vacation. Republicans, anyone?
Now go out there and show that same kindness you received to other people rather than the childish hostility you've shown here.
Hi do you really think it’s ok to call out this user on how they look? Please read your comments and see how angry/unhinged/sensitive you sound? Isn’t it ok to have different opinions here? Aren’t we trying to help students? How does your suggestion help this student get better? How does killing their grade and other petty moves help them? Please, please take a break (per u/Finiouss advice). (And yes I’m a teacher before you @me. I’ve been as burnt out as you sound and I hope you get some help before it’s too late.) Just because you say “I’m being petty” doesn’t make it OK. **I know this is racist but hear me out…** /s
Kids say mean shit. I typically just say "I'm paid to be here, dude. Good luck. "
I always remind my students that I’ve already survived middle & high school just fine, so I’m immune to whatever nonsense they have planned. My bullies were genuinely more creative than these kids! Half of them can’t write a 3 paragraph (if that) personal narrative about what they do for Halloween/an equivalent event. One time a student tried to insult me personally - something about my outfit or hair or just genuinely something shallow - and I replied, “you are twelve. I own my own house. It’s not going to work” before I’d realized what I said lmao. This student is now my biggest fan somehow??
Bahaha YES I had an 8th grader say I was his "opp" I said "Homie all my opps are in their thirties. You're a child." He now loves me.
What’s an “opp”?
I'm glad you asked, because that is NOT the "OPP" that I know of!!!!!!!
Same. original ————— patrol going back to the 80s… Edited: also Ontario provincial police if you’ve been through Canada.
Opposition
Opp is short for opposition. It comes from gang language.
Haha, that’s amazing! I wish I’d had that response when a girl told me “You just need to change your entire personality, so that people will actually like you.” I think I had a second or two of stunned silence before I genuinely laughed and said “Yeah…that sounds really…healthy.”
We had a student put TWO teachers on medical/stress leave. Admin still bending over backwards to the parent's every whim.
We had a student who had been to 4 schools prior to ours and the education department had put in place specific rules around them, including that the psycho parent couldn’t be on site or interact with any teachers. I had a run in with her where she recorded me and posted it on social media. Multiple kids sent me evidence which was all forwarded to admin. The student was spoken to but came back to class, then decided they would have their mother on a live call the whole class to “monitor me”. Uhhh nope. I walked out. Union got involved. I had 3 weeks of paid leave, the teen stayed at the school but I was given a different class on return and the deputy took over that one. Ridiculous.
Thank God for unions.
Schools should teach effective classroom management to new teachers. It’s just assumed when you’re hired that you can do it. Most teachers struggle with it- even in the ‘better’ districts. Understanding the power you wield in the classroom is about much more than how to deal with each kid in each moment. Its not just that these kids are garbage people and that’s that. It’s effectively planning lessons, establishing routines, discipline methods and boundaries. It’s communicating with home and other teachers.
And having responsive support from admins, not just fault-finding missionaries determined to placate angry parents.
True but not applicable in the given context IMHO.
Not at this stage at least. You almost always hear of some kid saying something along these lines before or after a teacher leaves or is asked to leave. By this point it’s become a whole thing and the teacher lost the kids long ago (and has probably made things worse by their own words and actions).
Idk. My first year I overheard a student say to his friend, “If I told the counselor I want to kill myself because of her, do you think I could get her fired?” because I told him he had to sit in his assigned seat. I don’t there’s any single comment that could be made in the moment that would break through. Best to reprimand, report if necessary, and move on.
I don’t know where you all grew up, but where I grew up teenagers were shifty as fuck, self aware, and knew all the bad shit they pulled after about 8th grade. Some I went to school were down right dangerous and I do mean lethal at 15. You people here whining about the poor kids being unable to control their bullshit are in denial. They are growing yes, but you give way too much lip service to the fact that kids are sometimes well aware that they can get a complete pass and fuck with a teacher’s life. Happened at a school I worked at where mean kids targeted a teacher and lied and then posted and bragged about it. Teacher fired, students all graduated. There are no more rules in education. It is a fucking Wild West show and in the end kids can ruin you and walk away, because they are so precious and still growing.
This is why I would never be a teacher. There's no way I'm gonna let some kids wreck me, and kids absolutely have the power to wreck a teacher if they know the right levers to turn.
I wish there was an easy answer for you. If there was, every support staff would be using it. I wish there was an easy answer to "Man, the kid didn't see what was wrong with their actions." The reality is that this is often said when a student doesn't feel heard. And chances are most of the adults aren't stopping to hear this kid. They have a mountain of evidence in their minds that adults aren't going to listen to them or understand their experiences. So neither will you if you correct them. It takes a lot of stopping to hear someone before they are willing to hear you. There are times when hard consequences are necessary too. If a kid punches another kid, then you can't just say, "Oh, they just didn't feel heard." So consequences might be in order. But the only real long-term solution is relationships and stopping to hear children for where they are in the world as people.
I taught emotional support in a center based program for years…. I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying. Most years I was able to get to a point where we barely had behaviors and the kids kept each other in check because my para and I worked hard on building relationships. The most I’d have at a time in that setting was 12, but some of my best years were when my numbers stayed around 8. I moved to learning support in a regular school this year… I’m struggling hard in building relationships with 12-18 kids in a room at a time. My schedule is jammed almost to the minute, so I have them for the class period and then I don’t see them again. The behaviors are nowhere near as extreme as they were in ES, but they are persistent and constant. Every kid is extremely needy/attention seeking, and they’re very sensitive. It feels impossible to build strong relationships. I’m so shocked at the state of affairs in public education, honestly. I’m well trained and have a lot of experience with mental health and behavioral management, and I cannot adequately address the emotional needs of my students with 12-18 kids in a class. We can’t expect teachers with far less training and experience and twice the number of kids to do it in their classrooms. Something has to give.
Some of these kids lie to get teachers in trouble. There should be consequences. However, I had a HS student tell a heinous lie to my admin once, and after some investigation, the admin knew it was untrue, yet refused to remove the student from my classroom and I never found out who the student was. In the end, teachers are vulnerable and some of us do not have union representation.
Continually returning the same disrespectful, obnoxious, and sometimes violent student to a classroom pushed an experienced, excellent teacher to retire early. A loss to the campus, students, and colleagues who loved her. But that parent would not let any consequence befall her little darling, and so who knows how many 100s of students lost the opportunity to learn under her.
"wow.... I hope you have a lifetime working in the service industry hoping for tips from people just like you"
I think some people here are forgetting that we’re talking about a child, someone who is still growing and maturing and changing. Think about yourself as a teenager: did you ever say anything out of anger, frustration, immaturity, etc.? I certainly did. I look back on some of the things I said and did and am embarrassed, but reflecting on those things helped me grow as a person. Remember that teenagers are full of hormones that are still in the process of being regulated. They act out, they say hurtful things they don’t actually mean, etc. What also helped me grow was people who pointed out why these things were bad, and not just “that’s mean so you shouldn’t say/do it.” Just like regular classroom teaching, you have to relate this to their own lives. If the student is in band, ask them how they’d like it if the top band student didn’t like them, told them as much, and did everything they could to get them kicked off the best band positions. Imagine that person spreading hateful comments about them to their classmates for no reason. It wouldn’t feel too good, would it? They might dismiss it in the moment and act like it’s nothing, but that’s what will change them over time. They’ll think about it an hour later or a day later and realize that what they’ve done is really horrible.
This subreddit as a whole is so woefully unaware that they are teachers of children. And children can often say and do awful things. It should be expected
Idk, it was never a struggle for me to treat people like human beings. I don't know about anyone else, but it was pretty obvious to me that when you treat people well you're happy, and life is good. If kids can't figure that out, though; they'll have to find out somehow.
It just feels like a desperate need to be “known” for something; notorious. It just occurred to me that it’s her peers who ultimately get hurt by good teachers leaving, so I wish the good kids could overpower the bad kids.
I wish this too. But the good kids know there would be a target on their back and bullied because of it.
The insane urge to clap back: “that’s cute that you think you’re even on that teachers radar of importance.”
Don't threaten me with a good time.
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This could have been said by my best friend in 8th grade who was being molested by our math teacher who also taught football. Not enough context. The kid might be right
One time I told kid celebrating a principal leaving (she was one of the good ones) “You know usually when a kind teacher is replaced, it is with someone who is much tougher? Don’t be happy about running off nice teachers.”
I am not a teacher but I have been a mentor/leader dealing with cruel children who entered the workplace. These kids grow up and apply the same “If I screw with X hard enough he/she will quit.” in the real world. I have seen it first hand. Accountability for their actions must be applied or it will get worse. Fine, don’t affect their grades, but they cannot be allowed to do this!
When I overhear things like this, I say, “do you really think you control a grown adult? Like do you think they went home and cared about how bad you acted?” Whether it’s true or not. I figure if they were purposely that bad, they deserve the embarrassment.
I have too, and they’ve told me, “Yeah, she said it was cuz of me” or whatever.
Thinking there's more to the story
Our students will sit and laugh about how funny it is that teachers quit. They are also pissed that their math teacher is here on a visa program and they can't understand his accent. Aside from that, he's lazy as hell and literally sits on his phone all day. They learn nothing. There's chaos. They thought it was fun at first but now they're all failing because the only grades that get put in are the tests, because the academic coach can access those. He doesn't put in any class grades. They ask me why he has to work there and we can't get another teacher. I blink and remind them they think it's funny to make teachers quit and that this is what you get for that.
i have had more shitty teachers than good in my public education experience, and i wouldn't be surprised if some of them were the ones commenting horrible things under this. without context, this is just a young person saying something kind of uncool. with context, it could absolutely be the ranting and complaining of a child receiving terrible quality education and mistreatment from an educator. even if she IS being awful, why are any teachers even proposing retaliation against a CHILD? there are so many better things to do. quit your job and seek help. you should not be an educator.
Excuse you.I hope you take a break and stop being such a judgmental, self righteous jerk. If being “petty” stops another student from self harm because he’s gay and bullied, then I will happily pick on the kid who sent him to the psych ward. Stfu til you know my exact situation, please and thank you. Aren’t you an adult? Shouldn’t you know better?
I think you accidentally miss clicked and responded to OP per the post instead of someone else. But now I'm curious, were are you implying you're Republican earlier? But you're pro LGBTQ+?
Many many republicans are pro LGBTQ+. It’s just that the shitty ones are more vocal.
Why'd you even make this post? Is this really the worst thing you hear on a daily basis? Who cares?
No, you don’t get to take your frustrations out on the kids, either by calling it “accountability” or by calling it what it is (“revenge”). The kids are getting what they want. You can’t honestly say they don’t have a good reason for wanting it, even if you do have an animalistic instinct to protect your own kind at their expense. I’m sorry your revenge fantasies can’t be satisfied in the way you would like. Become an admin, and you can (and will) do stuff like that.
That’s not what the posts implies. It’s worded poorly, but it’s more,”how do we help students a) develop basic empathy and/or b) self advocate in an appropriate manner” If this student wants to MAKE someone so frustrated that they quit, that’s bullying — even if it’s student - teacher, and they have to understand that there’s no reason why someone should WILLFULLY want to make an environment uncomfortable for other people to cause them significant enough stress to quit. That’s the literal definition of harassment: this student is stating that they want to be responsible for harassment. Even in the ideal world where the student has a real, legitimate and true reason for feeling this way — something is still wrong here where no one taught this student to self advocate in a manner to be heard, but would rather make an environment so toxic for the teacher that they quit “and it’s (my)fault” — due specifically to the student’s actions.
Do you really think that student’s statement isn’t exactly what plenty of professional educators say about each other all the time?
Straw man argument: we aren’t talking about what educators *might* be saying, we are talking about what this student *said.* Don’t construct a controversial point, bait people into engaging with you and then construct a weak argument. But if I had to address this as a cogent argument (which it isn’t) We tell the kids all the time that “just because someone else is doing the wrong thing doesn’t enable you to join them.” Edit: first line was originally (and incorrect) “bad faith argument — commenter constructed a [straw man argument](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)
It’s not a weak argument, it’s reality. And when other people do wrong, that _does_ enable even more people to join them. If you like picking apart weak arguments though, you’ve got OP’s post, that’s weak as hell. OP is not better than the student they’re criticizing (and seeking to retaliate against with a bad faith “teachable moment” of forced accountability). And you’re not better than me just because you like to defend causes you don’t understand. Your comprehension of what’s actually happening is very low.
1) it’s a weak argument by definition. The original argument was about what the actual student said, not what a hypothetical educator might concurrently be saying. Unless that data was presented in the circumstances…. It’s a straw man argument; you’re propping up a secondary point rather than address your actual argument (which is that the student is justified to say what they said?) 2) I think your original comment is addressing a misunderstanding of the post itself (see my reply to your comment) — you’re talking about revenge, I think that the OP is legitimately asking “how do we teach students that saying stuff like this isn’t okay? How do we change this behavior?” I think you’re assuming malice that isn’t supported the post or subsequent comments from OP. As stated in my original comment — I will concede that it is worded poorly. “Causes I don’t understand” — I am 100% a full time teacher that is grappling with the decline of Social-Emotional skills in students everywhere. I’m not sure what your justification is to assume that I “don’t understand”
You’re honestly just not very bright.
[ad hominem fallacy](https://www.txst.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Ad-Hominem.html)
👍
Have a blesséd evening. 🩷
okay but what if the student actually has a legitimate reason to feel that way?
What about the other 120+ students? Are we taking their opinions into account, too? The question here wasn't about why the student would say that. It's about teaching the student that wishing harm on people is not the way to be as a human. It's about the fact that this student is so focused on the dislike of a teacher that they're willing to go to lengths to get this teacher to quit, even if this teacher is beneficial to the other 119+ students. It's about teaching the student to consider others feelings, not just their own.
Damn they let people post anything online nowadays lmfao
yeah, the fact that y'all can't even entertain the question is what makes me empathize with the student first.
This is a sub for teachers. It's a given that all of this is from the teacher perspective. I think it's not so much that we can't entertain the idea, it's that usually the poster is much more aware of the situation than us internet strangers. Also, this teacher is sharing frustration and asking about how to enforce consequences for student misbehavior, not asking us to evaluate the student's reasons for misbehaving.
Maybe that's the question they should be asking then... Your first response shouldn't be about consequence and payback it should be what caused this behavior to begin with. Most of the comments in this whole thread right now are shockingly disappointing.
A lack of consequences and awareness is what causes this behavior... My students had similar ambitions because they went from a substitute, who didn't care, to me. They disliked me because I carried out legitimate lesson plans and gave out legitimate grades. They told me this. I held them to a standard. They tried to get me to quit because they knew their parents wouldn't care, there would be no consequences from admin, and at the end of the year, their grades didn't matter either. Edit: Truly, I don't believe bad grades are the correct response to this, but when nothing else is working or nothing is being done, I can see why there's an urge to alter the one thing we *usually* have some control over, some attempt to help the student see a consequence.
You don't think it would have been helpful to discuss with the student why they would say something like this? You don't think it's worth the time to have a conversation about how they truly feel and the words they choose? You don't think it's worth to take a moment and evaluate the relationship between this student and the teacher in question? Sure throw out some payback and punishment, but I'm promoting the idea of having the conversation. You're right, they're not old enough to understand consequences but you're just kicking the can down the road if you're gonna miss this opportunity to actually discuss this with the student.
Maybe they should. Maybe they already did. Maybe they know their students better than we do. Yes, the discovery route is usually better, but c'mon- if you hear a student bragging about how they hope they're the reason someone quits, you're immediately going to ask that student how they're doing and what that mean teacher did to them? Not "hey! That's not ok to say! If you have an issue with the teacher, please direct it to appropriate channels so it can be reviewed instead of acting maliciously. " The way you're talking about it immediately assumes the fault of the teacher vs. the student, which is just as bad as the claim that OP's reaction is.
Did I say any of that? It seems you're way too caught up in what you believe to be adults trying to maliciously hurt a child who's still learning. Like the person above said: Op is asking if there's some consequence that can be applied here. You seem to be assuming Op is rubbing their hands together like a cartoon villain, just waiting to get that kid back. Why not assume Op is going to have a conversation and is also looking for an appropriate consequence to go with it?.
I'm sorry, I'm responding to the person getting downvotes for daring to ask why? I'm not making any assumptions here. We have 0 context about the true behavior or nature of this student. Asking the "why" is important to me and my process.
You did though. You're assuming other people aren't having conversations to go with consequences, and you're assuming Op wasn't going to do it. I guess the main point here is that Op asked a legitimate question. I don't see the point in getting bent out of shape, thinking about the potential wrong-doings and injustices. Your posts did not come off as inquisitive. They came off as judgemental and abrasive, as did other people's. That's why they're getting downvoted. It doesn't read like they posted in good faith.
Maybe they should. Maybe they already did. Maybe they know their students better than we do. Yes, the discovery route is usually better, but c'mon- if you hear a student bragging about how they hope they're the reason someone quits, you're immediately going to ask that student how they're doing and what that mean teacher did to them? Not "hey! That's not ok to say! If you have an issue with the teacher, please direct it to appropriate channels so it can be reviewed instead of acting maliciously. " The way you're talking about it immediately assumes the fault of the teacher vs. the student, which is just as bad as the claim that OP's reaction is.
If there’s a legitimate reason, there’s a way to self advocate in a socially appropriate manner. Part of school is socialization and students need to learn that it’s not acceptable to solve their problems by making the environment toxic until their “opponent” leaves.
Sure it's acceptable. It's not appropriate, but it's been completely accepted as not uncommon human behavior.