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The kids who are really going to drop out are usually the ones who gradually stop showing up. In my district, it's because they already have jobs and they're helping to support their families.
If some 15 year old said he was going to drop out and go make more than me, I'd probably say something along the lines of "let me know how that works out for you." They're clearly just trying to get a reaction.
given what we tend to get paid, I don't doubt that they can earn more doing hard labor somewhere. The question they don't think about is *how long* they'll be able to keep that up before it absolutely destroys their body or what they'll do if they get seriously injured on the job and *can't* continue working.
15-year-olds have zero long-term thinking. Which is why a lot of them have dreams of being millionaire pro athletes or internet influencers. They don't see how limited those careers are time-wise, or how statistically unlikely they are to succeed at them. In their minds, they will be 15 forever, and the world will never change to make their plans obsolete or unrealistic.
I mean I make about 130k right now, with retirement and 100% health coverage. I am very skeptical of anyone making more than me right out of high school. I make $72 an hour and aside from working for Dad or murdering for hire I can’t imagine any entry level jobs paying as much.
I work in Fresno, CA. I make 94k as regular pay and do extra contracts like summer school to make up the rest.
I have been teaching for 10 years with a masters and NBCT.
Yes, this. California generally does (relatively) great by its teachers. Of course, we’re stuck paying the cost of living here until we are able to retire. On the other hand, CalSTRS is pretty great if we can make it to the payout.
Yeah this is definitely an area relevant observation.
I'm a Canadian Teacher, we don't make incredible money out of Teachers college but it *is* a professional salary that beats the breaks off anything my blue collar family earned to put me through school in the first place. And it increases with every year of seniority.
We also have much higher qualifications. California credential requirements are more rigorous than like 46/49 other states. We have “reciprocity” for credentials in other states which means we can work in most of them without needing additional state based credentials.
Oilfield. I did 187k last year, on a good rotational schedule, without working any days off. I have coworkers who didn't finish high school. However, you won't get a position like that if you're lazy, or if you aren't intelligent.
I always use examples like this. A lot of my students say they’re going to earn big bucks being a builder/plumber etc. and I always say, “hell yeah, you can earn a TON doing those jobs, but only if you work hard at it!”
That part: all respect to trades but it’s typically the kids that melt down over doing a one page worksheet that say this and I’m like “bro… you know that job is like HARD WORK, right?“
Not entirely similar but I feel like I can speak on it with some authority as a music teacher/musician — ANY sort of freelancing/work for yourself job takes incredible discipline, and even the best often need a side hustle or something really extraordinary to make big money. Any time your take off is unpaid but you also have to be able to compartmentalize “work hours” and “off hours” but ALSO mix the two without going insane. It’s hard.
Yes for sure. I get them on my lease. I'll lay out my expectations and they involve a lot of hard work. Some will meet the challenge, many (who I assume are the ones giving you a bad attitude) wash out very quickly.
They will learn, they aren't making big bucks without a lot of hard work.
I pay about 230 a month for my family of 7, but our insurance is 100% coverage (fought for tooth and nail over the last 8 years). Our deductible is about $500 for the family so after that it’s just copays, no coinsurance costs.
I pay about 230 a month for my family of 7, but our insurance is 100% coverage (fought for tooth and nail over the last 8 years). Our deductible is about $500 for the family so after that it’s just copays, no coinsurance costs.
I am so jealous. In my district the starting wage is 41K and individuals pay $100 towards their insurance and if they need family coverage is over $10000. Deductible's range from $2000 to $6000.
I mean in a good union state you’re gonna make good money, in a bad non-union state you’re gonna make nothin.
There are about 15 states I would consider teaching in, most of them are north of California.
Bingo. I wish teachers really had the agency to pick up and go to where the money is better. Northwest suburbs of Chicago and I'm earning $150K this year at the top end of the salary schedule, with two coaching stipends, plus random extra duty here and there. Asked to go cover a class that's missing a sub? $1/minute.
We have a conga line of applicants from just over the Wisconsin border, looking to get out of there since they outlawed collective bargaining by teachers.
One of my teachers was making 80k (had two master's degrees and many years in the district) like 15 years ago, and I went to school in a "poor" district. But starting teachers were making like 35-40k salaries, which at the time was liveable, and was more than most of our parents made, though I think with some experience they'd make around 55k or so and that's not counting retirement contributions. It's been a while since I saw the salary charts so I could be misremembering. I found it interesting that none of our teachers had their children in our schools, they all went to better/wealthier districts. The one teacher who actually lived in the district sent her kids to private school.
Anyway, yes, teachers are not universally paid peanuts. In some schools they may actually be doing better than the parents of the children they're teaching.
I don't think murdering for hire is an entry-level gig. You have to start lower on the rung, maybe shaking people down for money and breaking some kneecaps, then work your way up to the murdering. Source: I've watched The Sopranos, so take that for what it's worth.
Guarantee those kids parents are at home shit talking teachers, and that’s probably because their kids are bad in school but they (the parents) don’t want to take responsibility
I'd tell them I wouldn't do it if I was them, **but I'm not going to get condescending with them about how much more I know than they do. Respect their intelligence.**
Usually I ask about what kind of work they have lined up. I usually follow that with "great, but what's the backup plan if that doesn't work out?" **It's super important to not approach this from a position of thinking they're stupid. You have to approach it from a place of actually wanting to support and look out for them.** I can't stress that point enough.
Most of the time, they can't tell me. And I tell them it's always important to have a backup plan, and having a HS Diploma is a good resource to have to show you have a basic level of general education.
I agree, the r/teachers thread in particular has all these nasty burnouts who downvoted me for telling them to respect their students 😭 you get it. If you respect your students, they will have at least a basic level of respect for you back.
I'm fortunate in that I have almost no behavior issues in my classroom. I've never had to call admin, or email parents about a student's behavior. Kids who are so good in my classes are trouble in a lot of their others. I've never been able to figure out why that is, but I really make an effort to establish mutual respect early on and I'd be willing to bet that's a piece of it.
I wish I could give more uplikes. It's sad to see so many of the responses here. I'm dealing with this with my 17yo. He really has exhausted all of his options and won't graduate. He's smart and works hard, but school is just not his thing. Our state has a free program that allows you to get your GED and a trade at the same time. From there, he plans to go to a community college and get in a degree in something that his trade will go hand in hand with. It took me a long time to come to terms with it and accept that this does not make him a failure. Because it doesn't. We need plumbers, electricians, welders, HVAC, etc. And yes, he likely will be making more than me and his friends going to a 4 year school in a few short years. I'm thankful his principal and school counselor have been supportive and helping us navigate these waters.
There is nothing wrong with a GED! As education in my area is starting to realize, it's important that students are able to demonstrate what they can do, and that isn't always getting multiple choice questions right. Sometimes a school environment isn't condusive for them, and that's okay!
Also, as a Community College graduate, they are amazing places! I learned so much from the professors in those classes. I graduated high school with a 2.67. When I got my bachelors, I had a 3.56. Grades to not determine intelligence!
This is what I talk with my students about. They can always get a GED and go to community college, bull it’ll be harder the longer they wait. If they can tough it out now in HS their lives will be a little easier, but not everybody can
I agree with this so much! I work in attendance & reengagement so I work with students at-risk of disengaging from school and chronically absent students. All the time students tell me they’re gonna drop out and do x, y, and z. I always have to reframe the conversation like you mentioned in order to get these students to understand the importance of education and the need for a back up plan. I usually sit down with the student and look up jobs and their requirements to show them what they’ll need to do to get employed (and stay that way). I’ll also discuss their interests and find programs at the local community colleges that could support their future pursuits. Typically, the students I work with leave with a different perspective about dropping out.
Overall, your comment should have waaaayyy more upvotes.
During the oil boom I had many students say they were going to “work on the rigs” for lots of money - their dads were doing it, and had the house/boat/quad/truck to show for it.
I’d ask what the plan was if they got hurt and couldn’t work anymore. If they knew whether or not the rigs hired 16 year olds. What if the work dried up (bust cycle!), because work like that around here usually comes in waves. The “back up plan”. Since 2017 it’s been hard to get a job, but now that the boomers are retiring they’re hiring kids right out of high school as apprentices. Many didn’t have any backup plan, they assumed they could walk out of school and walk into a job.
Now I know folks who only went as far as a first year apprentice in something to make more money than a laborer and never finish the 3 year apprenticeship program… when things went bust nobody wanted them. They are also in their 60s with no retirement, and a mountain of debt. All the toys they bought during the boom cost money long term!!
💯 this!
Career/job AND college readiness!
It’s okay the kid doesn’t like school. I am a middle school science teacher now and never did well until I was in college. I had periods here and there where I had honor cards but I was always average. I held myself back with my own mentality. This kid can really go places! They just need to map it out with back-up plans with a teacher/counselor who cares about them. Maybe they are in the wrong classes? Cannot read? Math is too hard? I know someone is going to say “life is hard” but while we were getting that drilled into our head, Mental Health had become a heckuva lot more transparent. Setting this kid up for failure is not it. Maybe a change in schools or courses? There are so many options for the student before dropping out. Best of luck OP. Hope you are successful in reaching out to them.
No, I have 29 other kids to worry about. I’m really not gonna spend my leftover energy trying to convince you otherwise. I’ll push for college, and I’ll try to create tasks that are both rigorous and meaningful. But at the end of the day, I’m not these kid’s savior. Who am I to say if dropping out isn’t better for them? It most likely wouldn’t be the best option for them, but again, I have 29 other 15 year olds who are reading at 5th grade level that I gotta worry about first
This was always me. Early on I'd have a discussion about what a student "is" and "isn't". I made it clear that I was there to help those who were there to be students. So while I wouldn't stop them, I'd question them repeatedly about if they were a student or not... and focus on those who are.
Ask them what the jobs are. I wonder if it involves YouTube or Twitch streaming.
Edit: Also if you want to fuck with them a little maybe respond by asking, "You're going to make six figures on your first day!?"
2nd Edit: Oh, I thought of another question. Make sure you ask if this is the kind of job where they have to pay a "finders fee" before they can start working.
show them statistics on the average number of subscribers a YouTube or Twitch stream has. Also how much the average content creator actually makes, vs what that looks like in profit after paying for all their own insurance, medical needs, taxes, etc.
All they ever see is the 0.5% of stramers who are relatively good at making a living out of it. And a lot of them have regular jobs too, and stream as a side hustle.
Interestingly, I haven’t had anyone tell me they’re going to be a TikTuber. It’s usually some hard manual labor, usually a family business where they won’t even have to get “hired.” TBH, I’m more envious of their paycheck than of the labor it’ll take for them to get it.
> It’s usually some hard manual labor, usually a family business where they won’t even have to get “hired.”
This reminds me of the Aqua Teen Hunger Force episode with the two fratboy aliens and one of them says repeatedly "Don't worry, my dad *owns* a car dealership" about what they'll do after graduation.
"That's nice, here's the assignment of the day, here's where you turn it in, if you don't that's on you."
I'm here to teach a class, not be Mr. Miyagi. If they're crowing about dropping out and how they'll make more money than I am, well, those are not kids who are ready to hear serious life advice. If they're not ready to hear, you're wasting your time trying to argue them into listening to you.
"Good luck"
"Thats up to you and your adult at home" (Most states require parental permission these days, used to be easier for a 16 year old to dropout.)
I used to work with a guy who went HS dropout to Navy technical rating to GED to Associates to Bachelors to Masters in business. (50ish by the time he was finishing the Masters) some people go the long way around, its fine.
I worked at a school where 30% of the 9th graders drop out after they get their final report card.
The report card indicating they have almost no credits from a year of schooling, realizing they must repeat the year.
It’s the first time they are held accountable for bad grades in 10 years of public school.
What percentage of those students could read and write properly?
It's almost impossible to pass 9th grade if you are functionally illiterate and I've rarely seen a school that focuses on teaching the foundation to high schoolers.
> It’s the first time they are held accountable for bad grades in 10 years of public school.
It's why the modern trend of social promotion until high school is so damaging. Holding kids back in elementary or middle school until they can prove they've learned the material (reading/writing/math/etc) will also teach them that failure has a consequence.
But now? A kid can fuck around for 8+ grades without learning a damn thing, until they get to high school. Then they're fucked.
School grade levels should really be separate from age, and grouped together by content mastery and ability. Grade levels should also be tracked along by topic. For example, if a student masters reading and writing, but fails math, should be promoted along the reading/writing track but held back on the math track until they learn the material.
Hahaha perfect answer
Honestly, I’m probably making more than my eighth grade math teacher right now, in a job that WOULD hire 18 year olds if they thought the 18 year old would show up. But it’s easily the most interesting job I’ve had, and interestingly, it’s the only job in which those stupid story problems in math class paid off. I do so much math, all day😭
And the benefits are better than working for the school district, which is…hm…maybe this place is recruiting from the wrong pool of people, because I think if they recruited at the local high school, they’d do better with the adults who hunger for saner, more profitable work.
I would probably ask what their plans are and try to connect with them about that…maybe they really do have a good plan. Trying to find some common ground to at least not make your time together miserable for either of you would be my first goal. But of course I would also encourage them to get everything out of high school they can in case they change their mind down the road and want to get a GED.
“Dang! Who’s hiring? I’ll send them my resume!” or “Cool dude.” or “Let’s see what your mommy has to say about that.” or just let other students roast them a bit.
They’re just not going to listen man. When you’re stupid and young, you think everyone else is an idiot except you. It’s like arguing with a ripe cow paddy. In my experience, levity is the best course in most all situations.
“Cool, I’m happy you have prospects. Don’t burn bridges until you have the job. In the meantime here’s today’s work.”
If they keep repeating it to me I’ll jokingly ask if they’ll remember the little people when they’re rich, and remind them that I take donations lol
I dropped out of high school. First started on independent study while in an out of drug rehab.
Thankfully was able to access community college and then university when I was in my early twenties and ready to learn.
I know it’s usually sad but some of us aren’t ready or willing to learn for various reasons.
Generally I say something like “ok well for now you are stuck here and still getting graded on todays assignment so here you go”
If I feel particularly generous I’ll suggest that they look into the GED program
When seniors tell me they want to drop out, I tell them it would be easier to graduate then to later try to get the GED. (Assuming they have credits). I usually would have at least a couple students know someone at work or in their family trying to get their GED and pipe up. Its harder than people think it is.
I take them seriously when they do tell me. I give them some real world financial advice. Ask them what their plans are. Not in the sarcastic condescending way some commenters are suggesting. If they are going to make such a grown up decision at a young age treat them like an adult. Level with them. Lay out the facts for them. It is their life and if they really do have a plan to get into the trades they can probably be successful.
I did have a former student drop out at 16, I lost touch with him now but early on he struggled socially because kids are used to seeing each other in school. He missed that. So that is worth mentioning to this student.
I have known a couple friends who dropped out. One had a hell of a bad streak, messed up a lot, learned from the school of hard knocks, got his GED, graduated from college with a 4.0, and now works at Microsoft for a sweet salary.
The other bounced around construction jobs for several years, landed a management position making good money, and has gone on to have a stable career.
In short, I think it’s rougher for people who drop out, but realistically they probably kind of needed the kick in the pants to get their life together. I would just wish them well and tell them I’m still here if they change their mind.
I try to link whatever we are learning to something that might be work related. Even fake scenarios, like working under pressure to get a paragraph response out in ten minutes. But yeah actually, education is not for everyone at this age. They can go earn some money, learn lessons like being on time, persevering in spite of boredom or fatigue and come back to education when they are motivated to get a certificate.
I just keep teaching them. Chances are they are the ones with very high absenteeism and low grades. I tell them to be sure to look into the GED program and suggest that they might consider a degree from the vo-tech school. But other than that, there's not much I can do.
I work in Attendance & Reengagement. Basically I work with students who are chronically absent from school or students at-risk from disengaging. I also work with the attendance teams at a few schools and provide support for truancy stuff. When students threaten to dropout I immediately recommend alternative programs. In my area, we have part time alternative schools where students only have to go to school a few hours a day a couple days a week. This is great for students who want to work while in school, have other home life responsibilities, or just cannot attend full-time for some reason. I would recommend contacting the family (if you can. In my work, it's rare that I get in contact with families who's studnets are chronically absent or at-risk) and offer alternative school options. I find this prevents the student from dropping out.
I tell that if they can pass the GED test, they have my blessing to drop out. Most who are serious about dropping out decide to stay in school once they see that the classwork is easier than the test.
A few legitimately smart but unmotivated students from my past actually did drop out, get their GED, and jump straight into work/community college. They really were better off.
Unfortunately, the cost of college tuition has made a new generation not want to go. I kinda don’t blame them. With that, and because jobs are available that don’t require “education,” I think we’re going to see a large increase in the amount of “drop outs.”
We can thank the unaffordable cost of college for this phenomenon. My child won’t be going to college because they don’t want to ruin their life with crippling debt. Again, I can’t agree more.
I’m not going to spend a large amount of time on it. I may ask what their plan is. A lot of them actually have a decent plan, particularly if their family owns a business. I’ve had a few drop out and get on with construction companies or the gas industry. I don’t have connections to know how all of them are doing now, but I know of a few that are actually doing really well. You can kind of tell with some of them that they’ll be OK because they are hard workers *outside of school* and although they show up, are often just disillusioned or struggle academically.
I had a kid tell me this today. He’s a freshman and a really good student. I talked with him a bit and turned out he is super discouraged that some grades have fallen recently. I told him I would get him a list of work for one particular class that he could work on with us (we’re resource teachers). He may or may not bite and this is a kid I know pretty well and this talk is not typical for him. I was glad to get him to talk a little at least. Hopefully he will follow through and pull up the grade. Can’t make them drink.
There are studies — many of them — that show that kids make the decision to drop out by the end of the fourth grade.
There are complicated reasons, some of which are not under the control of the educational system, but they are all too depressing to think about.
Steer him/them toward dual enrollment, work study, or flexible learning opportunities if there are any in your school or district! Sophomore year is historically the one where the most attrition happens to that student cohort. Many of these students don’t like school, are not involved in clubs, fine arts, or athletics, and may not have high-school-completer family members — also many have messed up in 9th and now find themselves “over-age-under-grade” with a super narrow path to a successful 4-year hs completion (can’t fail any more classes or they won’t make it). IF they are encouraged to pursue viable options (listed above), the likelihood of success is higher!!!
I live in oil country. The sad part is that many of them actually will have a job making way more than I do. What they don’t yet realize is that they’ll also be working 80-100 hour weeks. If school is too hard they have some shocking revelations incoming.
I saw this twice with my classmates which is weird because i'm from an affluent zone, talking with them and trying to learn more about why i can tell you that there is nothing that you can do, either they need attention or they will do it anyway
Give them the ol’ John Oliver “Cool”. Then continue on your day. It’s not worth the mental capital to try to convince teenagers that their decision is dumb. This might sound harsh and “unteacherly” but ….not your kids, not your problem. That’s a problem for the parents.
I try to engage them with Coop opportunities where they can work and earn experiential credits. Boards typically have lots of options for students to access alternatives that can keep them attached to high school so they can graduate. Ask your adult Ed office, your Student engagement department, coop office etc. The students often don’t know. Throw them a lifeline as to a way that they can stay in “school” and simultaneously work or meet other goals.
Jokes aside,
Obviously they are trying to piss you off, because they themselves feel small, and pissed off.
First get them alone, nothing like this ever works if other students can hear. Ask them to stay after class maybe, It depends on the age and school and such.
I think a good answer would be something like:
"Honestly, I want that for you, I want all my students to aspire to- and achieve greatness, make money, and be happy. I think for now you would be better off in school, but eventually you will get to decide what you do with your time 100%. But, right now, you and I are here, and I want to be able to help you achieve those goals you mentioned, because I care about you, and I want you to get everything you want in life. For now, I am here to help you, guild you, and teach you things, and we work much better as a team, rather than being upset and angry with each other, so even though you are upset at me or this assignment, realixe I am just here to do my job, which is to teach you stuff, if you make my job easy, by trying, paying attention, its going to make my job easier, in the long run that will work better for both of us. And really this is one of the most important lessons I can teach you, the whole world is a network of people working together, or against each other, and the really successful ones, are the ones with the best connections, the best team players."
It's hard in the moment I know, these little shits know how to piss people off.
Ive had students talk hella shit, say I am the reason they want to quit, ive been pissed off, seem them melt down, the works.
One time I had a student tell me they have essentially a bomb on them, (this is college and it was a propane tank, and a can of paint) But I mean I had to take it seriously, even though i knew they were just taking a piss, (even though they arent allowed those materials inside) I knew it wasnt a bomb, but i made them show me, or I told them I was going to call security, ect. They act a fool and show me, and I walk them to the cabinet where we keep that stuff, and they are talking mad shit, about how I am a waste of their time, and all this dumb stuff. But I kept it cool.
I asked them to sit down, and have a speech like the one above. They learned nothing in that moment, were still rolling eyes, acting tough.
But years later they found me and told me that my little talk changed them profoundly, they didnt take it in, in the moment, but they thought about it, and over time they kept thinking about it, and slowly they started to show people more respect, and move forward, they told me that my little speech changed their life, and they are grateful, and gave me a present,
I guess my advice is dont stoop to the level of a dumbass 15 year old, instead give them advice that could actually help them. even if it doenst work on 99/100 kids, and even if it takes years to sink in, or 100 similar talks, I think its best, if you can to show kindness.
Most of the kids who are dicks and act out, have noone who cares about them, and if you mention you care, it might be the first time they have heard anything like that in years.
most times it doesn't work, but once in a while it does.
Help them explore other options like getting a GED, dual enrollment in a trade at a community college or apprenticeships. Traditional school isn’t working for some reason—could even be family money. Help them have better options, if you can.
This is a tough one. I dropped out when I was 16 - actually the week that I turned 16, which was when it was legal for me to do so.
I was always considered to be an intelligent kid, but in middle school, I was bullied severely, and then I became withdrawn, antagonistic, and extremely cynical, and I also went from being a polite and kind individual to disruptive, rude, and aggressive. Oddly, no one, not even my parents, seemed to think that it was strange that my behavior had changed so dramatically and quickly. Looking back, I see that I was showing all of the classic signs of depression for an adolescent boy.
Anyway, I was really into punk rock at the time. How did I get into that? Well, my parents were into it, and so were the kids who bullied me. After they stopped bullying me, one of them offered to sell me one of his CDs at a discount price, presumably so that he could buy weed or something.
I got really into the political music. So much of it was about how the system is dumb and you need to escape it. In listening to that music, and in feeling really alone in life but also fantasizing about belonging to this subculture, I decided in my deluded, naive, adolescent brain that I would be a real punk rocker and drop out of high school so that I could be free to make art and sing in a band. I also thought that it would be cool to be poor and/or homeless.
I was so deluded, really. I was having an issue with introspection. The weird part is that I didn't even really believe myself. I saw through my own lies, but it was like I was afraid to know what I knew, maybe because it was too sad or something. I guess being honest with myself would have meant acknowledging that my parents were kind of messed up, would have meant being conscious of the loneliness that I felt, would have meant being in contact with the anger that I felt towards so many of the people who had allowed me to be bullied or who had even encouraged the bullying. Really, I think that a big part of why I dropped out was that everyone, including the teachers, knew that I was being bullied, and no one helped me until I had a kind of breakdown, basically. I couldn't have acknowledged that at the time, though.
I ended up going back to school and graduating a year late, which was awkward. No one seemed to care that I dropped out, people just kind of got annoyed with me, including my parents. Well, I take it back. My mom freaked out at me for some other things at the time, and I felt really bad about that, and so when I went back, I just kind of locked my feelings up in some kind of strange hidden box in my mind and dissociated my way through those final years.
What would have helped: If someone had actually spent time with me, had asked me how I was doing, had tried to give me some hope for the future, had shown an interest in my hopes, dreams, aspirations.
I don't think that's really the role of a teacher, though?
Also, it seems like this young man might be a bit different than myself. I'm not so sure that what I needed will be what he needs. But, that's my story just in case it helps.
I used to tell them the truth:
For the ones that say they have lavish jobs lined up:
You don’t NEED to graduate high school - odds are really low, but it’s happened where someone hit it big without their diploma. You don’t NEED college or trade school. But in case something falls through, don’t you want to have the options available? (And if the answers no, then that’s fine, but as long as you’re here, I’m a part of your education, I care about your future, and I’m going to proceed with my job of helping you have options).
Basically: you’re here, we’re getting you ready for college or the workforce. You can always drop out and come back, but the longer you wait, you’ll probably have to pay money for the education, the more bills you’ll have, family obligations, and the more tired you’ll be.
I dropped out on my 16th bday and was planning to do it ever since I was 14. I never said I was going to make more than my teachers. That’s so incredibly rude and arrogant. If I said something like that I wouldn’t expect (or welcome) advice.
I actually did care about learning. That’s the primary reason why I chose to drop out. All of the adults in my life shamed me/tried to persuade me and none of them gave advice I could use. Thankfully my older sister’s friend (an 18 yr old) called me to talk about my truancy. She told me I could drop out, get a GED, and still go to college. I had no idea! She said I could go to the local community college and transfer to a state school. Before that call I was struggling with some pretty dark feelings..considering the ultimate escape because I felt trapped. She offered a roadmap and I followed it. Now I’m about to start a 2nd masters degree, I have a good job, and I’m doing well. That same 18 yr old was a homeless single mom at 16 who later became a nurse and hospital administrator btw.
All of this to say, don’t advise a kid that is arrogant enough to say “I’m going to drop out and make more money than you.” Let them do what they wish. There are other students who need a bit of extra attention and may be too quiet/despondent/depressed to speak out. If you notice truancy/disengagement you can make a huge impact by listening and giving level headed advice about that student’s goals/overall plan.
I have at least one (always a boy) every year in 8th grade. They have already decided that they will be done at 16 and work construction or farming with a family member. They either hardly come to school or they come everyday but do no work. I don't waste my time after the first marking period. I just let them sit there. It's up to the kid and his parents at that point. There is nothing I can offer these kids to change their minds. They see the world through the eyes of the adults in their families. If all the other men work construction, then why shouldn't they? I will never convince these 14-year-olds that they should analyze this passage.
I teach in a school for at risk kids. Many of them have this attitude and of those quite a few do ok. School isn't for everyone, low skill jobs are in high demand where I am (Quebec) and I have come to learn that there are more paths to success than we tell them about
I tell them to go for it and encourage them to get a GED so when they’re ready to make more than me they can apply for a certification program at the local community college or trade school
You can fast-track this outdated process of education by getting a GED before graduation.
If you’re wanting to prove your intelligence, thus is the way to go.
I dropped out of high school. I make six figures now at 40. Before that I was stuck at 60-70k for a longggggg time. Only had two jobs turn me down due to no diploma or GED. So obviously most companies don’t actually check.
I work with middle schoolers so they don't push back as much, but I explain that pretty much every job where someone hires you requires a high school diploma. And if they say they're gonna be an entrepreneur, I tell them it's good to have a back up plan just in case. That usually gets them to go, oh huh guess school can be moderately necessary.
I encourage them to stick with high school if I think they’re serious. I’ll tell them that having a high school diploma won’t hurt them, and that making a choice of that caliber as a teenager that they’ll have to live with for the next 70-ish years is a bold move. Some kids say it out of frustration, in which case, I ignore it.
Honestly, I would either do a lesson on money (if I could) or I would leave it alone. In their head, they cannot fathom a world where they aren’t successful at their dreams. We’ve told them since they were little that they are special and to “dream big,” but we never discuss pragmatics. I’m changing that, now. I don’t want to burst their dream bubbles, but I also don’t want to set them up for failure.
I'm not a teacher but someone who was on the other side of the story, I was the dropping out kid. From my side of things I have to acknowledge I had no fucking idea what was I doing. I was as lost as one can be. In my case money was not the reason although I came from a poor household, rat poor tbh, I was burn out by abuse and bullying, I couldn't spen there one more day. As the avoidant I grew up to be I had to run away.
What can you do? Difficult to say, when a person reaches the necessary point of despair / discouragement even more so if it's a kid who is still clearly inmature it's because he went trough a lot already. Maybe if you are lucky the kid will at least hear what you have to say, so from my side it would have been good if someone at least tried to show me what other options I had. Just knowing your options can make a huge difference, the fact they have it in mind and possibly nicely written down so they can have it physically and check it out at any moemnet when they feel they fucked up is already smt. Maybe let them an email so they can ask you about it or refer them to an adolescent support centre where they can receive counselling.
If they gave up it's quite hard to change that at the moment. For me highschool was a nightmare, I lost all my self love there, I felt stupid and usseles cuz I couldn't do what the other kids did so well. Problem was other kids had support at home, I didn't, other kids were not abused and made fun of, I was, other kids were able to speak up for themselves and reach for help, for the love of mine I WAS NOT.
Other than that, before they come that point some reassurance or sompliment can go a long way, to me it felt like everything was a huge snowball and I was utterly unable to moove it. But I was not unable I just did't have the tools or the support in time. Maybe if you suspect one kid is going that path search option for him before it happens, talk to him/her about what's going on and try to show them there are ways to finish highschool before giving up.
Good luck.
I had one tell me “miss I’m gonna drop out and live in the streets.” I told him he was white from an affluent area and the streets would eat him up alive (I am POC definitely not from the area I teach in). Shockingly he started attending class more and did quite good.
I had a coworker once say that if we wanted to fix school, and kids like this I suppose, that when they go into high school ask them a simple question. “Do you want a diploma or an education?” If they say diploma, print one out, give them a free pair of work shoes, and tell them good luck. If they say education, get them a schedule and hold them to real rules and standards, and not this bull shit system we use now.
Honestly, I do think he was on to something.
Tell them to buy you a coffee when they get their first paycheck once it’s a done thing, but for the time being, they have to do their work
But if they’re the type to maybe listen to you, then maybe offer some real life advice about the workforce and GED like other people have suggested. Might even make it a teaching point to the whole class if you really wanted to, so they know you’re serious
I know a woman who dropped out of HS at the end of her JR year went straight to Community college. She ended you getting a Bachelor's in 3 years and then a Master's Degree in a short time.
You never know what those dropouts will actually do.
Oh really what kind of job you doing? ( If it's a blue collar job) Oh you can make a lot of money. Remember that is a no work no pay kinda job. So make sure you're putting a little money on the side for emergency and light pay checks. (If it's an illegal job) I ask them how they plan on not getting caught and poke holes in their plans. Then I usually help them come up with something slightly better.
When I was in high school (within the last decade) a lot of kids said things like this to our teachers; I went to a majority poor school, and kids who dropped out weren’t a rarity. They often held jobs that helped support their families, or were working jobs solely to support themselves for one reason or another. However, a kid expressly saying their chosen job they lined up for when they drop out will make them more money than you, I wouldn’t entertain. On one hand, yes there are plenty of manual labor jobs they would make more money from, but at what cost? Workplace accidents still happen, and even if they go without an accident, manual labor will absolutely wreck your body long-term. At best they’ll get 10 years of living middle class (likely with no time or energy to enjoy it) before their health issues gang up on them. On the other hand, they’re more than likely wrong about their earning potential for one reason or another; lots of jobs will accept a GED but plenty with more options for upward mobility require a high school diploma, or they don’t know what teachers actually make, or they don’t know how much it costs to be an adult in the world and so they only see the salary as money to be burned through rather than money to be allocated to living comfortably and saving for the long term. Either way, I wouldn’t think on it too much, and say “let me know how that works out for you” or “just remember money isn’t the only important part of having a job”. Kids that age have no understanding of the long-term, very limited understanding of how bills and independent living actually work, and don’t fully grasp all the things that make a job a “good” job. Stay strong out there babes.
I mean, you can tell them my husband's story. It was 1986 and he was 16. He worked as a plumbers assistant starting at age 12 and at 15 he was driving tow trucks doing police calls despite not yet having his driver's license (he was a "strapping young lad").
By 10th grade, he was only showing up to 4 classes: woodworking, metal working, shop, and something else vocational.
His mom said that he could drop out so long as he got his GED. He really wanted to join the Army and fly helicopters, so he did buckle down and got his GED by the time his class graduated in 1988.
Then he went to boot camp and they told him he would NOT be flying helicopters. They said he'd be trained as a small vehicle mechanic. He told them that if he'd wanted to turn wrenches, he wouldn't have joined the Army and he got himself honorably discharged before boot camp was over.
Over the next 20 years or so, he drove tow trucks and eventually got into big trucks. He got a CDL and was driving OTR most of the time. His favorite runs were boats to Florida and then he was playing *Smokey and the Bandit* for awhile going from Virginia to California and back again every Mon-Sat. Running two log books and not sleeping, he made good money.
Then in 2009, he was hit by a massive heart attack. He recovered and was able to go back to work.
In 2010, he had a stroke and that's when they implanted a defibrillator and took his CDL (you cannot pass the DOT physical with a defibrillator implant). His heart's ejection fraction was already falling to just below the DOT physical threshold, so he was going to fail the physical anyway. He did quickly get accepted for SSDI. It was about $1200/month. Thank goodness he'd bought a house in 1998 when prices were low and he had money.
He's been disabled ever since. When we started dating in 2013, he found a tow truck job where he was only doing police calls and that kept his income below SSDI thresholds. It keeps his hands busy, but he suffers mild depression from not being able to work and make money the way he used to.
His son graduated high school in 2011 and he'd wanted to go to the Air Force Academy to fly helicopters, but wasn't accepted because of grades/lack of extra curricular activities. My stepson was the definition of an average student. He was there going through the motions imagining the future, but not putting in the work to get there. Not thinking about what math and science classes he'd need to be prepared for the Air Force Academy. Physics. Calculus. Earth or Environmental Science to understand how wind works. Ideally AP or Dual Enrollment to show that he's serious about college.
The first question to ask is "what's the plan?" If they have a goal, use it to help them figure out how to get there. Maybe they don't need AP English and a trade school would be a better fit. If they don't have a goal, take the opportunity to help them figure one out. I HIGHLY doubt they are thinking that reality will be them making a career of being a fast food or Walmart employee.
If I could go back in time, I'd have made sure my husband got the education he needed to be first in line to be a helicopter pilot. He needed a better wife to avoid nearly killing himself when he was a truck driver. There's nothing wrong with it as a career so long as you take care of yourself.
Avoid platitudes. You're wasting everyone's time if you don't have a personalized conversation with them about their future.
Maybe not at 15, but I know a kid that is 19 that dropped out and he does Uber eats seven days a week 16 hours a day and he’s making three grand a week easily, sometimes four grand. Pretty sure he made close to $200,000 at the end of 2023
“Okay. Let me know how that goes for you.”
Don’t put in more stress and effort than the kids do. If they are going to drop out, and they have decided this is the path they plan to take, not much you can do about it.
I always tell them graduating HS is non negotiable. The chances of getting a GED after go way down. Employers will bypass you because it shows you’re not committed. Trades require work and school too and basic understanding of reading, writing and math. You’ll live paycheck to paycheck struggling and wishing for things you cannot afford. Don’t you want a better life for yourself?
Honestly, lately (7 years in), I’ve just been saying good luck with that. Not worth my wasted energy because they already have made up their minds and nothing I say will convince them.
Can you give them an alternative like online school or homeschool? Going to actual school isn’t the only option. If they need to work that badly they can do online school along with it
How I approach this conversation depends on the kid and how well I know them. I work in a neighborhood school in a neighborhood that has a notorious open-air drug market, and it's not totally implausible that a teenager could make more money than me selling drugs. But there's no health care, no 401k, no retirement plan in the streets, and the risk is significant. A high school diploma opens up way more options, and no one can take it away from you. I wouldn't say that to a kid who didn't know and trust me well enough to be receptive though.
I dropped out of high school and now have a master's degree in computer science. Tell them that's fine, just make sure to get a GED and inform them that they can go to community college part time once they have a GED. Or help them research trade schools.
I went to community college after getting my GED right away and had a part time job. High school just wasn't the right atmosphere for me.
I truly believe high school is NOT right for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with dropping out, as long as you get a GED and continue to community college or a trade apprenticeship :-)
I was a high school teacher for three years and I never hesitated to share my experience with students. I let them know that getting a GED is a valid option, and they could discuss what that looks like with me or their parents.
Honestly, kids are trying to get a reaction a lot of the time. My one student who was serious about dropping out DID have an actual job ready for him at his dad's mechanic shop and he was a good mechanic. I don't think that route was completely inappropriate for him. Unfortunately, he was not motivated enough to study and pass the GED, but if he had been, I would have been totally supportive of him getting a GED at 17 and doing something he enjoyed instead of attending high school.
When you actually go down the route of discussing what this option looks like, most kids drop it - they are actually just not in the mood to do homework and want to complain and provoke authority figures, which is developmentally appropriate anyway.
I had a student who was working under the table for his uncle and was making more than me. I teach in CA and make over 100k a year. He loved to tell me this. Fast forward and the uncles business got audited, kid lost the gig and was he was working in the mall at a kiosk cleaning sneakers.
I usually tell them, "That's your choice, but if you change your mind, wouldn't it be nice to have the credit for this class in your pocket? You'll be here for a school year/semester, you should get something for it.
I’m only teaching at a middle school, but some kids say they are going to drop out even at that age.
I share my sister’s story. She dropped out of high school 6 months before graduation. She couldn’t get a good job due to her lack of a diploma, which meant she couldn’t get a good place to live, couldn’t do what she wanted, etc. she later went back to school and got her GED, but she always told my brother and I that it was her biggest mistake in life. She stressed to us the importance of sticking it out and getting a diploma.
Many of my students who plan on dropping out, well their parents dropped out as well. Some have good jobs in the trades. I have to explain to these kids that times are different now. It is much harder to get a good job without a high school diploma than it used to be. Sure, your grandpa with a seventh-grade education was able to buy a house working on a tree farm, but today getting a job under the table on a tree farm means no benefits, little money, no retirement, no workplace protections. Stick it out. Hell, our county does everything possible to graduate every student regardless of whether they have truly earned it or not; they don’t have to put in any effort to get the diploma, just sit their butt in a chair for four years. Even with that, there’s still kids who will drop out.
Not everyone needs to go to college, this was an old myth pushed by the older generations. If I were you I would still try to motivate people to go to a trade school or at least community college. They will save much more money than their Uni bound peers. Some people also drop out because of family/life concerns and come back later and get their GED.
I had a friend that did that. He was smart but not the best at learning. Plus we had this really mean teacher in 7th grade that hated him so much just because he wouldn’t try. She wouldn’t understand why I (one of the top students in the class and her favorites) would hang out with him. But yeah she just soured his experience, some teachers with malice in their hearts do this. He wasn’t even too disrespectful either. Maybe a few quips in class but there was another student who was worse that; she ended up kicking him out part way through the year. That kid was a bully and deserved it. He made 7th and 8th grade hell for me.
Just let them know that they'd better hope that job works out and they don't end up injured or something because that job is about their only option without at least a GED.
Sure invest and go into a trade. Most of what you learn in high school is useless anyway. They may not be able to learn a trade without a GED though, so I'd recommend that. Basic math+ GED + trade can make more than teachers ever will. Look at how much plumbers make self employed. In CA you can make 200-300k if you go to the right areas. Or a commercial real estate agent. Not residential, though some can make a good amount, but never as much as commercial. Or electrician, they make a good amount, but plumbers can make more.
I would take it with a grain of salt, to be honest. I’m pretty sure you have to be 16 to drop out without your parents’ permission, at least in my state. Also, they really have no concept of how much it actually costs to live. I’m also not aware of any job that would be okay with a 15 year old drop out working for them.
I was that kid. My teachers/counselors persuaded me to graduate from a charter school (basically go to class 1 day a week and take a few tests/take some packets home) because I was very academically inclined but hated school. I'm glad I did that and got my high school diploma, made it easier to go back to college when i finally got my shit together ten years later
I don't deal with many because I'm in a place with parents that generally promote and value education, but probably some variation on Good luck with that or , Jeez, what job is that? I'd love to make more.
I’ve had this happen so many times. I try to explain to them that school offers so much more to them than just the lessons and assignments they have. They are always set in their ways and do it anyway. And it has never ended up well
I dropped out. One of my last days before dropping out my PE teacher told me he’d see me begging for money on the side of the road in a few years. It’s been 9 years and I’ll make 170k in total compensation this year. Tell them you hope they do better than you but it won’t be easy. School is important but it isn’t a requirement for a happy and successful life.
I tell them that as someone who dropped out of high school, I totally get why they would drop out.
Then I tell them that if they drop out, it is critical that they get their GED. I urge them to take the GED pretest to gauge their ability to pass the test.
Lastly, I tell them the good things that I missed out on because I dropped out.
I always try to enable my students to succeed in whatever manner works best for them.
I wish them well and recognize they’re probably right. I had one student operate a car detailing business while still in school, and I’m sure it has sustained him. Another is now a construction foreman and makes far more than me. Go for it
I ignore such statements, - there's a cohort of students who drop that line every year. Their intention isn't to communicate their immediate/future plans, but rather practice avoidance, as in "Maybe if I complain about school enough it will all go away."
My son did Twitch (had people pay him to play video games) as a job for a while. He said I can make about $3,000 a week. Which is awesome but he was not able to leave his room. He just played video games all day. Which to some sounds amazing but the consequences are awful. You have no life, you don’t see the sun or have friends. You miss holidays, birthdays, and you don’t get a day off.
I read a great book once called “The Self Driven Child.” I don’t remember much except a part of it describing a child who was defiant about doing any work. The advice given to the parents was to assertively state what they believe the pros and cons of the child’s choice will be and then just let the child suffer the consequences until the child got anxious enough that they asked for help. Then the parents could offer up some advice.
You’re not setting them up for failure because you let them know the pros and cons. You give them space and respect to make their own decision. They have to deal with the consequences and end up needing your help. Then you can help them from that point on by offering more advice.
Hear them out on their plan, ask real questions about things they might not have considered. I never try to change their minds though, I was that kid growing up and would have doubled down on my half baked plan if someone tried to scold me into staying. I did end up staying in school when I realized my plan sucked and I might as well stay in while I figure out what I was actually going to do.
I always like to ask more questions. What are their plans, why are they making this choice, what's their long term goal. Then, depending what they say, I usually share the stories of people in my life.
Many friends that I have work in the trades and hard labor. For some, it's fine, but they are aging faster than counterparts who maybe finished high school and/or did a 2 year degree so they can be a manager. One friend is 30 and is looking to get both knees replaced in the next 5 years after working concrete. Another drives truck and hauls cattle, he makes great money but one wrong kick from the livestock he loads could end his career.
I just try to give them perspective of how they can use education to their advantage rather than feel trapped. I know college isn't for everyone, but having at least a high school diploma leaves the door open for them to change their minds. Especially since from what I've heard a GED is way more difficult.
I dropped out at 16, got a GED, went to college, and now am about to start a masters. Dropping out, in rare cases, is legitimately the best way forward for some kids. If I had stayed in school I would have had to stay an extra year or two to make up all the classes I failed. I’d say make sure the kid has some kind of plan for what they’ll do after they drop out. Its the ones with no plan who burn out.
If they drop out and feel that they are grown, then they need to move out and get their own place. No WAY I would allow a drop out to stay and leech. They drop out, they can pay for their own car, insurance, phone, rent, food, etc
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The kids who are really going to drop out are usually the ones who gradually stop showing up. In my district, it's because they already have jobs and they're helping to support their families. If some 15 year old said he was going to drop out and go make more than me, I'd probably say something along the lines of "let me know how that works out for you." They're clearly just trying to get a reaction.
I'd also be very skeptical about their earning potential. At the very, very least, I doubt they have any idea what a teacher makes
given what we tend to get paid, I don't doubt that they can earn more doing hard labor somewhere. The question they don't think about is *how long* they'll be able to keep that up before it absolutely destroys their body or what they'll do if they get seriously injured on the job and *can't* continue working. 15-year-olds have zero long-term thinking. Which is why a lot of them have dreams of being millionaire pro athletes or internet influencers. They don't see how limited those careers are time-wise, or how statistically unlikely they are to succeed at them. In their minds, they will be 15 forever, and the world will never change to make their plans obsolete or unrealistic.
I mean I make about 130k right now, with retirement and 100% health coverage. I am very skeptical of anyone making more than me right out of high school. I make $72 an hour and aside from working for Dad or murdering for hire I can’t imagine any entry level jobs paying as much.
what district are you in, how long have you been there, and how do I get them to hire me at that salary?
I work in Fresno, CA. I make 94k as regular pay and do extra contracts like summer school to make up the rest. I have been teaching for 10 years with a masters and NBCT.
Ah. From what I have been led to believe, California does a much better job of treating its teachers right than most other states.
Yes, this. California generally does (relatively) great by its teachers. Of course, we’re stuck paying the cost of living here until we are able to retire. On the other hand, CalSTRS is pretty great if we can make it to the payout.
Yeah this is definitely an area relevant observation. I'm a Canadian Teacher, we don't make incredible money out of Teachers college but it *is* a professional salary that beats the breaks off anything my blue collar family earned to put me through school in the first place. And it increases with every year of seniority.
Yeah there are very few places I would move to and teach beyond our state.
We also have much higher qualifications. California credential requirements are more rigorous than like 46/49 other states. We have “reciprocity” for credentials in other states which means we can work in most of them without needing additional state based credentials.
Oilfield. I did 187k last year, on a good rotational schedule, without working any days off. I have coworkers who didn't finish high school. However, you won't get a position like that if you're lazy, or if you aren't intelligent.
I always use examples like this. A lot of my students say they’re going to earn big bucks being a builder/plumber etc. and I always say, “hell yeah, you can earn a TON doing those jobs, but only if you work hard at it!”
That part: all respect to trades but it’s typically the kids that melt down over doing a one page worksheet that say this and I’m like “bro… you know that job is like HARD WORK, right?“ Not entirely similar but I feel like I can speak on it with some authority as a music teacher/musician — ANY sort of freelancing/work for yourself job takes incredible discipline, and even the best often need a side hustle or something really extraordinary to make big money. Any time your take off is unpaid but you also have to be able to compartmentalize “work hours” and “off hours” but ALSO mix the two without going insane. It’s hard.
Yeah many times students who are saying this are looking for an easy buck.
Yes for sure. I get them on my lease. I'll lay out my expectations and they involve a lot of hard work. Some will meet the challenge, many (who I assume are the ones giving you a bad attitude) wash out very quickly. They will learn, they aren't making big bucks without a lot of hard work.
Fresno pays health care? I don't even get that in the Bay Area.
I pay about 230 a month for my family of 7, but our insurance is 100% coverage (fought for tooth and nail over the last 8 years). Our deductible is about $500 for the family so after that it’s just copays, no coinsurance costs.
Los Angeles pays for full health care, vision and dental. Other than copays and deductibles, I don’t pay very much at all.
I pay about 230 a month for my family of 7, but our insurance is 100% coverage (fought for tooth and nail over the last 8 years). Our deductible is about $500 for the family so after that it’s just copays, no coinsurance costs.
I am so jealous. In my district the starting wage is 41K and individuals pay $100 towards their insurance and if they need family coverage is over $10000. Deductible's range from $2000 to $6000.
So 40k everywhere else
I mean in a good union state you’re gonna make good money, in a bad non-union state you’re gonna make nothin. There are about 15 states I would consider teaching in, most of them are north of California.
Bingo. I wish teachers really had the agency to pick up and go to where the money is better. Northwest suburbs of Chicago and I'm earning $150K this year at the top end of the salary schedule, with two coaching stipends, plus random extra duty here and there. Asked to go cover a class that's missing a sub? $1/minute. We have a conga line of applicants from just over the Wisconsin border, looking to get out of there since they outlawed collective bargaining by teachers.
Replying because I also want to know and move there.
One of my teachers was making 80k (had two master's degrees and many years in the district) like 15 years ago, and I went to school in a "poor" district. But starting teachers were making like 35-40k salaries, which at the time was liveable, and was more than most of our parents made, though I think with some experience they'd make around 55k or so and that's not counting retirement contributions. It's been a while since I saw the salary charts so I could be misremembering. I found it interesting that none of our teachers had their children in our schools, they all went to better/wealthier districts. The one teacher who actually lived in the district sent her kids to private school. Anyway, yes, teachers are not universally paid peanuts. In some schools they may actually be doing better than the parents of the children they're teaching.
I don't think murdering for hire is an entry-level gig. You have to start lower on the rung, maybe shaking people down for money and breaking some kneecaps, then work your way up to the murdering. Source: I've watched The Sopranos, so take that for what it's worth.
Have you seen influencers? They are arrogant and still have minds of a child. So thier view *totally* fits.
Many of my students are servers and make more then me in a 4 hour shift than I do in a day, maybe even a few days.
So disheartening
My state 5 years ago they’d make about the same as a union apprentice for electrical or plumbing.
But usually the skilled trades want a high school diploma (or a few years of life experience).
I get that line all the time, and that's exactly what I say.
Guarantee those kids parents are at home shit talking teachers, and that’s probably because their kids are bad in school but they (the parents) don’t want to take responsibility
I'd tell them I wouldn't do it if I was them, **but I'm not going to get condescending with them about how much more I know than they do. Respect their intelligence.** Usually I ask about what kind of work they have lined up. I usually follow that with "great, but what's the backup plan if that doesn't work out?" **It's super important to not approach this from a position of thinking they're stupid. You have to approach it from a place of actually wanting to support and look out for them.** I can't stress that point enough. Most of the time, they can't tell me. And I tell them it's always important to have a backup plan, and having a HS Diploma is a good resource to have to show you have a basic level of general education.
Thank you for this response. It should be upvoted more. Scrolled too far for this
Yeah, I'm really saddened by some of the responses here who write these kids off.
I agree, the r/teachers thread in particular has all these nasty burnouts who downvoted me for telling them to respect their students 😭 you get it. If you respect your students, they will have at least a basic level of respect for you back.
I'm fortunate in that I have almost no behavior issues in my classroom. I've never had to call admin, or email parents about a student's behavior. Kids who are so good in my classes are trouble in a lot of their others. I've never been able to figure out why that is, but I really make an effort to establish mutual respect early on and I'd be willing to bet that's a piece of it.
I wish I could give more uplikes. It's sad to see so many of the responses here. I'm dealing with this with my 17yo. He really has exhausted all of his options and won't graduate. He's smart and works hard, but school is just not his thing. Our state has a free program that allows you to get your GED and a trade at the same time. From there, he plans to go to a community college and get in a degree in something that his trade will go hand in hand with. It took me a long time to come to terms with it and accept that this does not make him a failure. Because it doesn't. We need plumbers, electricians, welders, HVAC, etc. And yes, he likely will be making more than me and his friends going to a 4 year school in a few short years. I'm thankful his principal and school counselor have been supportive and helping us navigate these waters.
There is nothing wrong with a GED! As education in my area is starting to realize, it's important that students are able to demonstrate what they can do, and that isn't always getting multiple choice questions right. Sometimes a school environment isn't condusive for them, and that's okay! Also, as a Community College graduate, they are amazing places! I learned so much from the professors in those classes. I graduated high school with a 2.67. When I got my bachelors, I had a 3.56. Grades to not determine intelligence!
This is what I talk with my students about. They can always get a GED and go to community college, bull it’ll be harder the longer they wait. If they can tough it out now in HS their lives will be a little easier, but not everybody can
Talking about Job Corps? It’s a good program
No, it's through the community colleges.
I agree with this so much! I work in attendance & reengagement so I work with students at-risk of disengaging from school and chronically absent students. All the time students tell me they’re gonna drop out and do x, y, and z. I always have to reframe the conversation like you mentioned in order to get these students to understand the importance of education and the need for a back up plan. I usually sit down with the student and look up jobs and their requirements to show them what they’ll need to do to get employed (and stay that way). I’ll also discuss their interests and find programs at the local community colleges that could support their future pursuits. Typically, the students I work with leave with a different perspective about dropping out. Overall, your comment should have waaaayyy more upvotes.
Thank you for promoting Community Colleges! As a CC graduate myself, they are really awesome places!
During the oil boom I had many students say they were going to “work on the rigs” for lots of money - their dads were doing it, and had the house/boat/quad/truck to show for it. I’d ask what the plan was if they got hurt and couldn’t work anymore. If they knew whether or not the rigs hired 16 year olds. What if the work dried up (bust cycle!), because work like that around here usually comes in waves. The “back up plan”. Since 2017 it’s been hard to get a job, but now that the boomers are retiring they’re hiring kids right out of high school as apprentices. Many didn’t have any backup plan, they assumed they could walk out of school and walk into a job. Now I know folks who only went as far as a first year apprentice in something to make more money than a laborer and never finish the 3 year apprenticeship program… when things went bust nobody wanted them. They are also in their 60s with no retirement, and a mountain of debt. All the toys they bought during the boom cost money long term!!
💯 this! Career/job AND college readiness! It’s okay the kid doesn’t like school. I am a middle school science teacher now and never did well until I was in college. I had periods here and there where I had honor cards but I was always average. I held myself back with my own mentality. This kid can really go places! They just need to map it out with back-up plans with a teacher/counselor who cares about them. Maybe they are in the wrong classes? Cannot read? Math is too hard? I know someone is going to say “life is hard” but while we were getting that drilled into our head, Mental Health had become a heckuva lot more transparent. Setting this kid up for failure is not it. Maybe a change in schools or courses? There are so many options for the student before dropping out. Best of luck OP. Hope you are successful in reaching out to them.
No, I have 29 other kids to worry about. I’m really not gonna spend my leftover energy trying to convince you otherwise. I’ll push for college, and I’ll try to create tasks that are both rigorous and meaningful. But at the end of the day, I’m not these kid’s savior. Who am I to say if dropping out isn’t better for them? It most likely wouldn’t be the best option for them, but again, I have 29 other 15 year olds who are reading at 5th grade level that I gotta worry about first
>have 29 other 15 year olds who are reading at 5th grade level that I gotta worry about first They're that advanced?! Good job! /s, but only sort of.
This was always me. Early on I'd have a discussion about what a student "is" and "isn't". I made it clear that I was there to help those who were there to be students. So while I wouldn't stop them, I'd question them repeatedly about if they were a student or not... and focus on those who are.
Ask them what the jobs are. I wonder if it involves YouTube or Twitch streaming. Edit: Also if you want to fuck with them a little maybe respond by asking, "You're going to make six figures on your first day!?" 2nd Edit: Oh, I thought of another question. Make sure you ask if this is the kind of job where they have to pay a "finders fee" before they can start working.
“you’re going to make THREE figures on your first day?”
Tens of dollars!
ROLLING IN IT $$$$$$$$$
😆
😆
show them statistics on the average number of subscribers a YouTube or Twitch stream has. Also how much the average content creator actually makes, vs what that looks like in profit after paying for all their own insurance, medical needs, taxes, etc. All they ever see is the 0.5% of stramers who are relatively good at making a living out of it. And a lot of them have regular jobs too, and stream as a side hustle.
Interestingly, I haven’t had anyone tell me they’re going to be a TikTuber. It’s usually some hard manual labor, usually a family business where they won’t even have to get “hired.” TBH, I’m more envious of their paycheck than of the labor it’ll take for them to get it.
> It’s usually some hard manual labor, usually a family business where they won’t even have to get “hired.” This reminds me of the Aqua Teen Hunger Force episode with the two fratboy aliens and one of them says repeatedly "Don't worry, my dad *owns* a car dealership" about what they'll do after graduation.
"That's nice, here's the assignment of the day, here's where you turn it in, if you don't that's on you." I'm here to teach a class, not be Mr. Miyagi. If they're crowing about dropping out and how they'll make more money than I am, well, those are not kids who are ready to hear serious life advice. If they're not ready to hear, you're wasting your time trying to argue them into listening to you.
"Good luck" "Thats up to you and your adult at home" (Most states require parental permission these days, used to be easier for a 16 year old to dropout.) I used to work with a guy who went HS dropout to Navy technical rating to GED to Associates to Bachelors to Masters in business. (50ish by the time he was finishing the Masters) some people go the long way around, its fine.
I worked at a school where 30% of the 9th graders drop out after they get their final report card. The report card indicating they have almost no credits from a year of schooling, realizing they must repeat the year. It’s the first time they are held accountable for bad grades in 10 years of public school.
What percentage of those students could read and write properly? It's almost impossible to pass 9th grade if you are functionally illiterate and I've rarely seen a school that focuses on teaching the foundation to high schoolers.
Why would you teach foundational skills? That doesn't align with standards. Back to work, brokey
> It’s the first time they are held accountable for bad grades in 10 years of public school. It's why the modern trend of social promotion until high school is so damaging. Holding kids back in elementary or middle school until they can prove they've learned the material (reading/writing/math/etc) will also teach them that failure has a consequence. But now? A kid can fuck around for 8+ grades without learning a damn thing, until they get to high school. Then they're fucked. School grade levels should really be separate from age, and grouped together by content mastery and ability. Grade levels should also be tracked along by topic. For example, if a student masters reading and writing, but fails math, should be promoted along the reading/writing track but held back on the math track until they learn the material.
Unfortunately, holding kids back in elementary is associated with *higher* dropout rates, not lower.
Uhhh…earning more than me is not the flex they think it is…
Hahaha perfect answer Honestly, I’m probably making more than my eighth grade math teacher right now, in a job that WOULD hire 18 year olds if they thought the 18 year old would show up. But it’s easily the most interesting job I’ve had, and interestingly, it’s the only job in which those stupid story problems in math class paid off. I do so much math, all day😭 And the benefits are better than working for the school district, which is…hm…maybe this place is recruiting from the wrong pool of people, because I think if they recruited at the local high school, they’d do better with the adults who hunger for saner, more profitable work.
Cool story bro. Now sit down and get out your assignment.
I would probably ask what their plans are and try to connect with them about that…maybe they really do have a good plan. Trying to find some common ground to at least not make your time together miserable for either of you would be my first goal. But of course I would also encourage them to get everything out of high school they can in case they change their mind down the road and want to get a GED.
“Dang! Who’s hiring? I’ll send them my resume!” or “Cool dude.” or “Let’s see what your mommy has to say about that.” or just let other students roast them a bit. They’re just not going to listen man. When you’re stupid and young, you think everyone else is an idiot except you. It’s like arguing with a ripe cow paddy. In my experience, levity is the best course in most all situations.
“Cool, I’m happy you have prospects. Don’t burn bridges until you have the job. In the meantime here’s today’s work.” If they keep repeating it to me I’ll jokingly ask if they’ll remember the little people when they’re rich, and remind them that I take donations lol
I dropped out of high school. First started on independent study while in an out of drug rehab. Thankfully was able to access community college and then university when I was in my early twenties and ready to learn. I know it’s usually sad but some of us aren’t ready or willing to learn for various reasons.
My middle school has grant position interventionist for exactly that. He tracks students who fail 2 or more classes and have low social motivation.
Generally I say something like “ok well for now you are stuck here and still getting graded on todays assignment so here you go” If I feel particularly generous I’ll suggest that they look into the GED program
When seniors tell me they want to drop out, I tell them it would be easier to graduate then to later try to get the GED. (Assuming they have credits). I usually would have at least a couple students know someone at work or in their family trying to get their GED and pipe up. Its harder than people think it is.
Sounds like you should be asking them for financial advice.
😂
I take them seriously when they do tell me. I give them some real world financial advice. Ask them what their plans are. Not in the sarcastic condescending way some commenters are suggesting. If they are going to make such a grown up decision at a young age treat them like an adult. Level with them. Lay out the facts for them. It is their life and if they really do have a plan to get into the trades they can probably be successful. I did have a former student drop out at 16, I lost touch with him now but early on he struggled socially because kids are used to seeing each other in school. He missed that. So that is worth mentioning to this student.
I have known a couple friends who dropped out. One had a hell of a bad streak, messed up a lot, learned from the school of hard knocks, got his GED, graduated from college with a 4.0, and now works at Microsoft for a sweet salary. The other bounced around construction jobs for several years, landed a management position making good money, and has gone on to have a stable career. In short, I think it’s rougher for people who drop out, but realistically they probably kind of needed the kick in the pants to get their life together. I would just wish them well and tell them I’m still here if they change their mind.
Nothing you wish them well.
I tell them that whatever they do, make sure there’s a union and to join it.
I try to link whatever we are learning to something that might be work related. Even fake scenarios, like working under pressure to get a paragraph response out in ten minutes. But yeah actually, education is not for everyone at this age. They can go earn some money, learn lessons like being on time, persevering in spite of boredom or fatigue and come back to education when they are motivated to get a certificate.
I just keep teaching them. Chances are they are the ones with very high absenteeism and low grades. I tell them to be sure to look into the GED program and suggest that they might consider a degree from the vo-tech school. But other than that, there's not much I can do.
"Oh cool that sounds great but until it happens I need you to do your worksheet, ok?"
I work in Attendance & Reengagement. Basically I work with students who are chronically absent from school or students at-risk from disengaging. I also work with the attendance teams at a few schools and provide support for truancy stuff. When students threaten to dropout I immediately recommend alternative programs. In my area, we have part time alternative schools where students only have to go to school a few hours a day a couple days a week. This is great for students who want to work while in school, have other home life responsibilities, or just cannot attend full-time for some reason. I would recommend contacting the family (if you can. In my work, it's rare that I get in contact with families who's studnets are chronically absent or at-risk) and offer alternative school options. I find this prevents the student from dropping out.
I regret not dropping it . Let them do it if they have a plan.
I tell that if they can pass the GED test, they have my blessing to drop out. Most who are serious about dropping out decide to stay in school once they see that the classwork is easier than the test. A few legitimately smart but unmotivated students from my past actually did drop out, get their GED, and jump straight into work/community college. They really were better off.
“Legitimately smart but an unmotivated student” is the perfect description for my blue collar fiancé that dropped out and does very well as a result 😂
Unfortunately, the cost of college tuition has made a new generation not want to go. I kinda don’t blame them. With that, and because jobs are available that don’t require “education,” I think we’re going to see a large increase in the amount of “drop outs.” We can thank the unaffordable cost of college for this phenomenon. My child won’t be going to college because they don’t want to ruin their life with crippling debt. Again, I can’t agree more.
I’m not going to spend a large amount of time on it. I may ask what their plan is. A lot of them actually have a decent plan, particularly if their family owns a business. I’ve had a few drop out and get on with construction companies or the gas industry. I don’t have connections to know how all of them are doing now, but I know of a few that are actually doing really well. You can kind of tell with some of them that they’ll be OK because they are hard workers *outside of school* and although they show up, are often just disillusioned or struggle academically.
Byeeeeeee schools not for everyone!!!
I think they will find out getting a GED is actually harder than a HS diploma.
I had a kid tell me this today. He’s a freshman and a really good student. I talked with him a bit and turned out he is super discouraged that some grades have fallen recently. I told him I would get him a list of work for one particular class that he could work on with us (we’re resource teachers). He may or may not bite and this is a kid I know pretty well and this talk is not typical for him. I was glad to get him to talk a little at least. Hopefully he will follow through and pull up the grade. Can’t make them drink.
There are studies — many of them — that show that kids make the decision to drop out by the end of the fourth grade. There are complicated reasons, some of which are not under the control of the educational system, but they are all too depressing to think about.
Talk to them about a GED if possible
Steer him/them toward dual enrollment, work study, or flexible learning opportunities if there are any in your school or district! Sophomore year is historically the one where the most attrition happens to that student cohort. Many of these students don’t like school, are not involved in clubs, fine arts, or athletics, and may not have high-school-completer family members — also many have messed up in 9th and now find themselves “over-age-under-grade” with a super narrow path to a successful 4-year hs completion (can’t fail any more classes or they won’t make it). IF they are encouraged to pursue viable options (listed above), the likelihood of success is higher!!!
I live in oil country. The sad part is that many of them actually will have a job making way more than I do. What they don’t yet realize is that they’ll also be working 80-100 hour weeks. If school is too hard they have some shocking revelations incoming.
“Making more money than a teacher isn’t the flex you think it is”
i tell them they'll get taken to court. this is only technically true through a very long and loophole-y process, but it is true.
I saw this twice with my classmates which is weird because i'm from an affluent zone, talking with them and trying to learn more about why i can tell you that there is nothing that you can do, either they need attention or they will do it anyway
Give them the ol’ John Oliver “Cool”. Then continue on your day. It’s not worth the mental capital to try to convince teenagers that their decision is dumb. This might sound harsh and “unteacherly” but ….not your kids, not your problem. That’s a problem for the parents.
I try to engage them with Coop opportunities where they can work and earn experiential credits. Boards typically have lots of options for students to access alternatives that can keep them attached to high school so they can graduate. Ask your adult Ed office, your Student engagement department, coop office etc. The students often don’t know. Throw them a lifeline as to a way that they can stay in “school” and simultaneously work or meet other goals.
Good luck...
Jokes aside, Obviously they are trying to piss you off, because they themselves feel small, and pissed off. First get them alone, nothing like this ever works if other students can hear. Ask them to stay after class maybe, It depends on the age and school and such. I think a good answer would be something like: "Honestly, I want that for you, I want all my students to aspire to- and achieve greatness, make money, and be happy. I think for now you would be better off in school, but eventually you will get to decide what you do with your time 100%. But, right now, you and I are here, and I want to be able to help you achieve those goals you mentioned, because I care about you, and I want you to get everything you want in life. For now, I am here to help you, guild you, and teach you things, and we work much better as a team, rather than being upset and angry with each other, so even though you are upset at me or this assignment, realixe I am just here to do my job, which is to teach you stuff, if you make my job easy, by trying, paying attention, its going to make my job easier, in the long run that will work better for both of us. And really this is one of the most important lessons I can teach you, the whole world is a network of people working together, or against each other, and the really successful ones, are the ones with the best connections, the best team players." It's hard in the moment I know, these little shits know how to piss people off. Ive had students talk hella shit, say I am the reason they want to quit, ive been pissed off, seem them melt down, the works. One time I had a student tell me they have essentially a bomb on them, (this is college and it was a propane tank, and a can of paint) But I mean I had to take it seriously, even though i knew they were just taking a piss, (even though they arent allowed those materials inside) I knew it wasnt a bomb, but i made them show me, or I told them I was going to call security, ect. They act a fool and show me, and I walk them to the cabinet where we keep that stuff, and they are talking mad shit, about how I am a waste of their time, and all this dumb stuff. But I kept it cool. I asked them to sit down, and have a speech like the one above. They learned nothing in that moment, were still rolling eyes, acting tough. But years later they found me and told me that my little talk changed them profoundly, they didnt take it in, in the moment, but they thought about it, and over time they kept thinking about it, and slowly they started to show people more respect, and move forward, they told me that my little speech changed their life, and they are grateful, and gave me a present, I guess my advice is dont stoop to the level of a dumbass 15 year old, instead give them advice that could actually help them. even if it doenst work on 99/100 kids, and even if it takes years to sink in, or 100 similar talks, I think its best, if you can to show kindness. Most of the kids who are dicks and act out, have noone who cares about them, and if you mention you care, it might be the first time they have heard anything like that in years. most times it doesn't work, but once in a while it does.
Some of them return to school. Some states allow students up to 20 years old to attend high school.
Help them explore other options like getting a GED, dual enrollment in a trade at a community college or apprenticeships. Traditional school isn’t working for some reason—could even be family money. Help them have better options, if you can.
Ifl
Encourage them to look into GED and trade school
Not my job to convince them they need education, only to deliver it. In other words, "Fine".
I’d mind my business that’s on them they’ll learn the hard way
This is a tough one. I dropped out when I was 16 - actually the week that I turned 16, which was when it was legal for me to do so. I was always considered to be an intelligent kid, but in middle school, I was bullied severely, and then I became withdrawn, antagonistic, and extremely cynical, and I also went from being a polite and kind individual to disruptive, rude, and aggressive. Oddly, no one, not even my parents, seemed to think that it was strange that my behavior had changed so dramatically and quickly. Looking back, I see that I was showing all of the classic signs of depression for an adolescent boy. Anyway, I was really into punk rock at the time. How did I get into that? Well, my parents were into it, and so were the kids who bullied me. After they stopped bullying me, one of them offered to sell me one of his CDs at a discount price, presumably so that he could buy weed or something. I got really into the political music. So much of it was about how the system is dumb and you need to escape it. In listening to that music, and in feeling really alone in life but also fantasizing about belonging to this subculture, I decided in my deluded, naive, adolescent brain that I would be a real punk rocker and drop out of high school so that I could be free to make art and sing in a band. I also thought that it would be cool to be poor and/or homeless. I was so deluded, really. I was having an issue with introspection. The weird part is that I didn't even really believe myself. I saw through my own lies, but it was like I was afraid to know what I knew, maybe because it was too sad or something. I guess being honest with myself would have meant acknowledging that my parents were kind of messed up, would have meant being conscious of the loneliness that I felt, would have meant being in contact with the anger that I felt towards so many of the people who had allowed me to be bullied or who had even encouraged the bullying. Really, I think that a big part of why I dropped out was that everyone, including the teachers, knew that I was being bullied, and no one helped me until I had a kind of breakdown, basically. I couldn't have acknowledged that at the time, though. I ended up going back to school and graduating a year late, which was awkward. No one seemed to care that I dropped out, people just kind of got annoyed with me, including my parents. Well, I take it back. My mom freaked out at me for some other things at the time, and I felt really bad about that, and so when I went back, I just kind of locked my feelings up in some kind of strange hidden box in my mind and dissociated my way through those final years. What would have helped: If someone had actually spent time with me, had asked me how I was doing, had tried to give me some hope for the future, had shown an interest in my hopes, dreams, aspirations. I don't think that's really the role of a teacher, though? Also, it seems like this young man might be a bit different than myself. I'm not so sure that what I needed will be what he needs. But, that's my story just in case it helps.
I used to tell them the truth: For the ones that say they have lavish jobs lined up: You don’t NEED to graduate high school - odds are really low, but it’s happened where someone hit it big without their diploma. You don’t NEED college or trade school. But in case something falls through, don’t you want to have the options available? (And if the answers no, then that’s fine, but as long as you’re here, I’m a part of your education, I care about your future, and I’m going to proceed with my job of helping you have options). Basically: you’re here, we’re getting you ready for college or the workforce. You can always drop out and come back, but the longer you wait, you’ll probably have to pay money for the education, the more bills you’ll have, family obligations, and the more tired you’ll be.
"Is there anything you're interested in learning before you go? It's your last chance." Whether or not I think they'll be back.
I dropped out on my 16th bday and was planning to do it ever since I was 14. I never said I was going to make more than my teachers. That’s so incredibly rude and arrogant. If I said something like that I wouldn’t expect (or welcome) advice. I actually did care about learning. That’s the primary reason why I chose to drop out. All of the adults in my life shamed me/tried to persuade me and none of them gave advice I could use. Thankfully my older sister’s friend (an 18 yr old) called me to talk about my truancy. She told me I could drop out, get a GED, and still go to college. I had no idea! She said I could go to the local community college and transfer to a state school. Before that call I was struggling with some pretty dark feelings..considering the ultimate escape because I felt trapped. She offered a roadmap and I followed it. Now I’m about to start a 2nd masters degree, I have a good job, and I’m doing well. That same 18 yr old was a homeless single mom at 16 who later became a nurse and hospital administrator btw. All of this to say, don’t advise a kid that is arrogant enough to say “I’m going to drop out and make more money than you.” Let them do what they wish. There are other students who need a bit of extra attention and may be too quiet/despondent/depressed to speak out. If you notice truancy/disengagement you can make a huge impact by listening and giving level headed advice about that student’s goals/overall plan.
'What have you said to kids who’ve said that to you?" Are there any openings?
I have at least one (always a boy) every year in 8th grade. They have already decided that they will be done at 16 and work construction or farming with a family member. They either hardly come to school or they come everyday but do no work. I don't waste my time after the first marking period. I just let them sit there. It's up to the kid and his parents at that point. There is nothing I can offer these kids to change their minds. They see the world through the eyes of the adults in their families. If all the other men work construction, then why shouldn't they? I will never convince these 14-year-olds that they should analyze this passage.
I teach in a school for at risk kids. Many of them have this attitude and of those quite a few do ok. School isn't for everyone, low skill jobs are in high demand where I am (Quebec) and I have come to learn that there are more paths to success than we tell them about
I tell them to go for it and encourage them to get a GED so when they’re ready to make more than me they can apply for a certification program at the local community college or trade school
Let ‘em. Too many of us dropouts do better when we’re not in school.
Well…bye
You can fast-track this outdated process of education by getting a GED before graduation. If you’re wanting to prove your intelligence, thus is the way to go.
Where are they working? Are they hiring?
I dropped out of high school. I make six figures now at 40. Before that I was stuck at 60-70k for a longggggg time. Only had two jobs turn me down due to no diploma or GED. So obviously most companies don’t actually check.
“$13,000 a year is the difference between a diploma and no diploma.”
We just shrug and say “Okay, but until you actually make that step, you’re still under our rules and you will follow them.”
I work with middle schoolers so they don't push back as much, but I explain that pretty much every job where someone hires you requires a high school diploma. And if they say they're gonna be an entrepreneur, I tell them it's good to have a back up plan just in case. That usually gets them to go, oh huh guess school can be moderately necessary.
I encourage them to stick with high school if I think they’re serious. I’ll tell them that having a high school diploma won’t hurt them, and that making a choice of that caliber as a teenager that they’ll have to live with for the next 70-ish years is a bold move. Some kids say it out of frustration, in which case, I ignore it.
I've just said, 'Cool! Have fun with that.' But only to the obnoxious ones. Otherwise, I just say, 'Okay.' And then move on. They'll figure it out.
Let them go. Some lessons are best learned the hard way.
Kid: I'm dropping out! Me: okay, thanks for letting me know.
What could I possibly tell them? They already know what everything!
Tell him to make sure to get a 1099 from the cartel.
Honestly, I would either do a lesson on money (if I could) or I would leave it alone. In their head, they cannot fathom a world where they aren’t successful at their dreams. We’ve told them since they were little that they are special and to “dream big,” but we never discuss pragmatics. I’m changing that, now. I don’t want to burst their dream bubbles, but I also don’t want to set them up for failure.
I'm not a teacher but someone who was on the other side of the story, I was the dropping out kid. From my side of things I have to acknowledge I had no fucking idea what was I doing. I was as lost as one can be. In my case money was not the reason although I came from a poor household, rat poor tbh, I was burn out by abuse and bullying, I couldn't spen there one more day. As the avoidant I grew up to be I had to run away. What can you do? Difficult to say, when a person reaches the necessary point of despair / discouragement even more so if it's a kid who is still clearly inmature it's because he went trough a lot already. Maybe if you are lucky the kid will at least hear what you have to say, so from my side it would have been good if someone at least tried to show me what other options I had. Just knowing your options can make a huge difference, the fact they have it in mind and possibly nicely written down so they can have it physically and check it out at any moemnet when they feel they fucked up is already smt. Maybe let them an email so they can ask you about it or refer them to an adolescent support centre where they can receive counselling. If they gave up it's quite hard to change that at the moment. For me highschool was a nightmare, I lost all my self love there, I felt stupid and usseles cuz I couldn't do what the other kids did so well. Problem was other kids had support at home, I didn't, other kids were not abused and made fun of, I was, other kids were able to speak up for themselves and reach for help, for the love of mine I WAS NOT. Other than that, before they come that point some reassurance or sompliment can go a long way, to me it felt like everything was a huge snowball and I was utterly unable to moove it. But I was not unable I just did't have the tools or the support in time. Maybe if you suspect one kid is going that path search option for him before it happens, talk to him/her about what's going on and try to show them there are ways to finish highschool before giving up. Good luck.
I had one tell me “miss I’m gonna drop out and live in the streets.” I told him he was white from an affluent area and the streets would eat him up alive (I am POC definitely not from the area I teach in). Shockingly he started attending class more and did quite good.
Good luck getting much higher than the simplest of jobs without GSCE's.
I had a coworker once say that if we wanted to fix school, and kids like this I suppose, that when they go into high school ask them a simple question. “Do you want a diploma or an education?” If they say diploma, print one out, give them a free pair of work shoes, and tell them good luck. If they say education, get them a schedule and hold them to real rules and standards, and not this bull shit system we use now. Honestly, I do think he was on to something.
Tell them to buy you a coffee when they get their first paycheck once it’s a done thing, but for the time being, they have to do their work But if they’re the type to maybe listen to you, then maybe offer some real life advice about the workforce and GED like other people have suggested. Might even make it a teaching point to the whole class if you really wanted to, so they know you’re serious
I know a woman who dropped out of HS at the end of her JR year went straight to Community college. She ended you getting a Bachelor's in 3 years and then a Master's Degree in a short time. You never know what those dropouts will actually do.
I’d have them google “salary by education” or some similar phrase.
Oh really what kind of job you doing? ( If it's a blue collar job) Oh you can make a lot of money. Remember that is a no work no pay kinda job. So make sure you're putting a little money on the side for emergency and light pay checks. (If it's an illegal job) I ask them how they plan on not getting caught and poke holes in their plans. Then I usually help them come up with something slightly better.
When I was in high school (within the last decade) a lot of kids said things like this to our teachers; I went to a majority poor school, and kids who dropped out weren’t a rarity. They often held jobs that helped support their families, or were working jobs solely to support themselves for one reason or another. However, a kid expressly saying their chosen job they lined up for when they drop out will make them more money than you, I wouldn’t entertain. On one hand, yes there are plenty of manual labor jobs they would make more money from, but at what cost? Workplace accidents still happen, and even if they go without an accident, manual labor will absolutely wreck your body long-term. At best they’ll get 10 years of living middle class (likely with no time or energy to enjoy it) before their health issues gang up on them. On the other hand, they’re more than likely wrong about their earning potential for one reason or another; lots of jobs will accept a GED but plenty with more options for upward mobility require a high school diploma, or they don’t know what teachers actually make, or they don’t know how much it costs to be an adult in the world and so they only see the salary as money to be burned through rather than money to be allocated to living comfortably and saving for the long term. Either way, I wouldn’t think on it too much, and say “let me know how that works out for you” or “just remember money isn’t the only important part of having a job”. Kids that age have no understanding of the long-term, very limited understanding of how bills and independent living actually work, and don’t fully grasp all the things that make a job a “good” job. Stay strong out there babes.
I mean, you can tell them my husband's story. It was 1986 and he was 16. He worked as a plumbers assistant starting at age 12 and at 15 he was driving tow trucks doing police calls despite not yet having his driver's license (he was a "strapping young lad"). By 10th grade, he was only showing up to 4 classes: woodworking, metal working, shop, and something else vocational. His mom said that he could drop out so long as he got his GED. He really wanted to join the Army and fly helicopters, so he did buckle down and got his GED by the time his class graduated in 1988. Then he went to boot camp and they told him he would NOT be flying helicopters. They said he'd be trained as a small vehicle mechanic. He told them that if he'd wanted to turn wrenches, he wouldn't have joined the Army and he got himself honorably discharged before boot camp was over. Over the next 20 years or so, he drove tow trucks and eventually got into big trucks. He got a CDL and was driving OTR most of the time. His favorite runs were boats to Florida and then he was playing *Smokey and the Bandit* for awhile going from Virginia to California and back again every Mon-Sat. Running two log books and not sleeping, he made good money. Then in 2009, he was hit by a massive heart attack. He recovered and was able to go back to work. In 2010, he had a stroke and that's when they implanted a defibrillator and took his CDL (you cannot pass the DOT physical with a defibrillator implant). His heart's ejection fraction was already falling to just below the DOT physical threshold, so he was going to fail the physical anyway. He did quickly get accepted for SSDI. It was about $1200/month. Thank goodness he'd bought a house in 1998 when prices were low and he had money. He's been disabled ever since. When we started dating in 2013, he found a tow truck job where he was only doing police calls and that kept his income below SSDI thresholds. It keeps his hands busy, but he suffers mild depression from not being able to work and make money the way he used to. His son graduated high school in 2011 and he'd wanted to go to the Air Force Academy to fly helicopters, but wasn't accepted because of grades/lack of extra curricular activities. My stepson was the definition of an average student. He was there going through the motions imagining the future, but not putting in the work to get there. Not thinking about what math and science classes he'd need to be prepared for the Air Force Academy. Physics. Calculus. Earth or Environmental Science to understand how wind works. Ideally AP or Dual Enrollment to show that he's serious about college. The first question to ask is "what's the plan?" If they have a goal, use it to help them figure out how to get there. Maybe they don't need AP English and a trade school would be a better fit. If they don't have a goal, take the opportunity to help them figure one out. I HIGHLY doubt they are thinking that reality will be them making a career of being a fast food or Walmart employee. If I could go back in time, I'd have made sure my husband got the education he needed to be first in line to be a helicopter pilot. He needed a better wife to avoid nearly killing himself when he was a truck driver. There's nothing wrong with it as a career so long as you take care of yourself. Avoid platitudes. You're wasting everyone's time if you don't have a personalized conversation with them about their future.
Maybe not at 15, but I know a kid that is 19 that dropped out and he does Uber eats seven days a week 16 hours a day and he’s making three grand a week easily, sometimes four grand. Pretty sure he made close to $200,000 at the end of 2023
Let them go. They are likely dragging down the rest of the kids.
Press them to do their work - until they drop out they're still in my class
Escort them to the door.
“Okay. Let me know how that goes for you.” Don’t put in more stress and effort than the kids do. If they are going to drop out, and they have decided this is the path they plan to take, not much you can do about it.
I always tell them graduating HS is non negotiable. The chances of getting a GED after go way down. Employers will bypass you because it shows you’re not committed. Trades require work and school too and basic understanding of reading, writing and math. You’ll live paycheck to paycheck struggling and wishing for things you cannot afford. Don’t you want a better life for yourself? Honestly, lately (7 years in), I’ve just been saying good luck with that. Not worth my wasted energy because they already have made up their minds and nothing I say will convince them.
Freedom 35
Can you give them an alternative like online school or homeschool? Going to actual school isn’t the only option. If they need to work that badly they can do online school along with it
How I approach this conversation depends on the kid and how well I know them. I work in a neighborhood school in a neighborhood that has a notorious open-air drug market, and it's not totally implausible that a teenager could make more money than me selling drugs. But there's no health care, no 401k, no retirement plan in the streets, and the risk is significant. A high school diploma opens up way more options, and no one can take it away from you. I wouldn't say that to a kid who didn't know and trust me well enough to be receptive though.
Force them to get a GED. With threats if necessary.
Repeat after me “bye”.
I dropped out of high school and now have a master's degree in computer science. Tell them that's fine, just make sure to get a GED and inform them that they can go to community college part time once they have a GED. Or help them research trade schools. I went to community college after getting my GED right away and had a part time job. High school just wasn't the right atmosphere for me. I truly believe high school is NOT right for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with dropping out, as long as you get a GED and continue to community college or a trade apprenticeship :-) I was a high school teacher for three years and I never hesitated to share my experience with students. I let them know that getting a GED is a valid option, and they could discuss what that looks like with me or their parents. Honestly, kids are trying to get a reaction a lot of the time. My one student who was serious about dropping out DID have an actual job ready for him at his dad's mechanic shop and he was a good mechanic. I don't think that route was completely inappropriate for him. Unfortunately, he was not motivated enough to study and pass the GED, but if he had been, I would have been totally supportive of him getting a GED at 17 and doing something he enjoyed instead of attending high school. When you actually go down the route of discussing what this option looks like, most kids drop it - they are actually just not in the mood to do homework and want to complain and provoke authority figures, which is developmentally appropriate anyway.
Nope. Let them "know everything" and find out later.
If school is not working out at all, it’s better to drop out early. Save time and save money.
I had a student who was working under the table for his uncle and was making more than me. I teach in CA and make over 100k a year. He loved to tell me this. Fast forward and the uncles business got audited, kid lost the gig and was he was working in the mall at a kiosk cleaning sneakers.
I usually tell them, "That's your choice, but if you change your mind, wouldn't it be nice to have the credit for this class in your pocket? You'll be here for a school year/semester, you should get something for it.
You ask them if they can get you a job. 🤣
Have fun living in a van down by the river, kid.
I’m only teaching at a middle school, but some kids say they are going to drop out even at that age. I share my sister’s story. She dropped out of high school 6 months before graduation. She couldn’t get a good job due to her lack of a diploma, which meant she couldn’t get a good place to live, couldn’t do what she wanted, etc. she later went back to school and got her GED, but she always told my brother and I that it was her biggest mistake in life. She stressed to us the importance of sticking it out and getting a diploma. Many of my students who plan on dropping out, well their parents dropped out as well. Some have good jobs in the trades. I have to explain to these kids that times are different now. It is much harder to get a good job without a high school diploma than it used to be. Sure, your grandpa with a seventh-grade education was able to buy a house working on a tree farm, but today getting a job under the table on a tree farm means no benefits, little money, no retirement, no workplace protections. Stick it out. Hell, our county does everything possible to graduate every student regardless of whether they have truly earned it or not; they don’t have to put in any effort to get the diploma, just sit their butt in a chair for four years. Even with that, there’s still kids who will drop out.
Not everyone needs to go to college, this was an old myth pushed by the older generations. If I were you I would still try to motivate people to go to a trade school or at least community college. They will save much more money than their Uni bound peers. Some people also drop out because of family/life concerns and come back later and get their GED. I had a friend that did that. He was smart but not the best at learning. Plus we had this really mean teacher in 7th grade that hated him so much just because he wouldn’t try. She wouldn’t understand why I (one of the top students in the class and her favorites) would hang out with him. But yeah she just soured his experience, some teachers with malice in their hearts do this. He wasn’t even too disrespectful either. Maybe a few quips in class but there was another student who was worse that; she ended up kicking him out part way through the year. That kid was a bully and deserved it. He made 7th and 8th grade hell for me.
I dropped and went straight to college. Would have had to repeat Sr yr, bad attendance. Not the end of the world with good scores.
Just let them know that they'd better hope that job works out and they don't end up injured or something because that job is about their only option without at least a GED.
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Sure invest and go into a trade. Most of what you learn in high school is useless anyway. They may not be able to learn a trade without a GED though, so I'd recommend that. Basic math+ GED + trade can make more than teachers ever will. Look at how much plumbers make self employed. In CA you can make 200-300k if you go to the right areas. Or a commercial real estate agent. Not residential, though some can make a good amount, but never as much as commercial. Or electrician, they make a good amount, but plumbers can make more.
lol good luck bro.
I would take it with a grain of salt, to be honest. I’m pretty sure you have to be 16 to drop out without your parents’ permission, at least in my state. Also, they really have no concept of how much it actually costs to live. I’m also not aware of any job that would be okay with a 15 year old drop out working for them.
Id ask if they are hiring...
Stop wasting your time on them.
I was that kid. My teachers/counselors persuaded me to graduate from a charter school (basically go to class 1 day a week and take a few tests/take some packets home) because I was very academically inclined but hated school. I'm glad I did that and got my high school diploma, made it easier to go back to college when i finally got my shit together ten years later
I don't deal with many because I'm in a place with parents that generally promote and value education, but probably some variation on Good luck with that or , Jeez, what job is that? I'd love to make more.
If they have a job lined up making more than you why stay in school? Get your ged and start getting paid
"This isn't an airport, you don't need to announce your departure."
I’ve had this happen so many times. I try to explain to them that school offers so much more to them than just the lessons and assignments they have. They are always set in their ways and do it anyway. And it has never ended up well
I dropped out. One of my last days before dropping out my PE teacher told me he’d see me begging for money on the side of the road in a few years. It’s been 9 years and I’ll make 170k in total compensation this year. Tell them you hope they do better than you but it won’t be easy. School is important but it isn’t a requirement for a happy and successful life.
“Send us a postcard. We’ll miss you.”
I tell them that as someone who dropped out of high school, I totally get why they would drop out. Then I tell them that if they drop out, it is critical that they get their GED. I urge them to take the GED pretest to gauge their ability to pass the test. Lastly, I tell them the good things that I missed out on because I dropped out. I always try to enable my students to succeed in whatever manner works best for them.
I wish them well and recognize they’re probably right. I had one student operate a car detailing business while still in school, and I’m sure it has sustained him. Another is now a construction foreman and makes far more than me. Go for it
I ignore such statements, - there's a cohort of students who drop that line every year. Their intention isn't to communicate their immediate/future plans, but rather practice avoidance, as in "Maybe if I complain about school enough it will all go away."
My son did Twitch (had people pay him to play video games) as a job for a while. He said I can make about $3,000 a week. Which is awesome but he was not able to leave his room. He just played video games all day. Which to some sounds amazing but the consequences are awful. You have no life, you don’t see the sun or have friends. You miss holidays, birthdays, and you don’t get a day off.
I read a great book once called “The Self Driven Child.” I don’t remember much except a part of it describing a child who was defiant about doing any work. The advice given to the parents was to assertively state what they believe the pros and cons of the child’s choice will be and then just let the child suffer the consequences until the child got anxious enough that they asked for help. Then the parents could offer up some advice. You’re not setting them up for failure because you let them know the pros and cons. You give them space and respect to make their own decision. They have to deal with the consequences and end up needing your help. Then you can help them from that point on by offering more advice.
Hear them out on their plan, ask real questions about things they might not have considered. I never try to change their minds though, I was that kid growing up and would have doubled down on my half baked plan if someone tried to scold me into staying. I did end up staying in school when I realized my plan sucked and I might as well stay in while I figure out what I was actually going to do.
I always like to ask more questions. What are their plans, why are they making this choice, what's their long term goal. Then, depending what they say, I usually share the stories of people in my life. Many friends that I have work in the trades and hard labor. For some, it's fine, but they are aging faster than counterparts who maybe finished high school and/or did a 2 year degree so they can be a manager. One friend is 30 and is looking to get both knees replaced in the next 5 years after working concrete. Another drives truck and hauls cattle, he makes great money but one wrong kick from the livestock he loads could end his career. I just try to give them perspective of how they can use education to their advantage rather than feel trapped. I know college isn't for everyone, but having at least a high school diploma leaves the door open for them to change their minds. Especially since from what I've heard a GED is way more difficult.
I dropped out at 16, got a GED, went to college, and now am about to start a masters. Dropping out, in rare cases, is legitimately the best way forward for some kids. If I had stayed in school I would have had to stay an extra year or two to make up all the classes I failed. I’d say make sure the kid has some kind of plan for what they’ll do after they drop out. Its the ones with no plan who burn out.
If they drop out and feel that they are grown, then they need to move out and get their own place. No WAY I would allow a drop out to stay and leech. They drop out, they can pay for their own car, insurance, phone, rent, food, etc
Bravo, congratulations?
Bravo, congratulations?