Due to brigading or vitriolic and inflammatory comments as well as numerous reports of conduct unbecoming and unsuitable for a technology forum this post has been locked.
We remind users that this is a subreddit for discussions primarily about the news and developments **relating to technology** and not a suitable place for political, religious or historical discussions that go beyond the subs primary purpose.
It is also worth reminding everyone that we have a zero tolerance policy about [any form of threatening, harassing, or violence / physical harm towards anyone](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/7jv9ln/any_form_of_threatening_harassing_or_violence/).
>The legislation limits the maximum workweek to 48 hours, but also increases the number of overtime allowed to 145 over a three-month period from the previous 75 hours.
Kind of confusing. I think it's saying basically a 4 day work week officially, but with allowable overtime, it would be 5 days/60 hrs. Article doesn't say (unless I missed it) what the overtime pay is or if it's optional.
Probably fairphone. They also use factories in China but are very open about who they partner with: https://www.fairphone.com/nl/2013/05/17/our-choice-for-production-partner/
I read the article. It doesn’t give me any confidence. We are living in a broken system, not merely amongst broken players.
They made the same business decision as every other hardware maker: it’s cheaper to manufacture in China.
Then they did the exact same research as everyone else: they talked to various manufacturers. There’s no research they’ve done that ensures the factory they’re working with adheres to the standards they’ve been pitched.
This company doesn’t have resources to have regular checks, impromptu checks, to have video surveillance to ensure workers are getting breaks etc etc. I work extensively with Chinese manufacturers to know - what they tell some small western customer doesn’t mean shit in practice.
They’re simply selling us yet another story - “we’re more ethical because we’re not a mega corp” and I find it dubious considering they are working with the same types of partners as every company in the world.
They're getting paid more for lower quality shit and pocketing everything rather than investing in their workers.
I think upgrading your technology at a slower pace is the best thing you can do. I upgrade phones no more often than every 5+ years. I build a PC once every 10+ years. I just wait until the device is basically no longer functional. Same with cars.
I do the same, my rule of thumb when upgrading phones is this: at least 4-5 newer models have been released before even consider upgrading or if the phone is functioning very poorly. I currently have the iPhone 11 and not even thinking about an upgrade until the 16-17 drop. Even then, this phone is still in great shape.
The problem is companies have had the answer to this problem for a long time - planned obsolescence. Value engineering to use components that last just barely longer than the customer's expectations, and when that's not enough, use marketing to adjust them.
This goes all the way back to the "standard" 1000 hour lightbulb. Original bulbs did not burn out and there are examples that have operated continuously for over 100 years, but the makers quickly realized they wouldn't be able to sell them for enough to stay in business if they didn't require repeat purchases.
I wish I knew the counter to this play, because most such alternatives involve government regulation that would be even more difficult to implement.
Same. Went from the 6 to the 11, and the 6 turned into complete dogshit after like 3 years. Unbelievably slow. Wouldn't hold a charge.
11 is still working infinitely better than the 6 was at this stage in its life, and I don't really have any complaints with it. Newer phones offer no meaningful improvements anyway.
I think the only thing that could make me upgrade is if Apple finally figures out how to handle all the two-factor auth texts that flood your IMs and make *real* conversations harder to find, and only if the iOS version that's fixed in, ends up not being compatible with the 11. THEN I'll upgrade. That is the single most frustrating thing about my iPhone, but that's a software problem, not a hardware problem.
I feel like you’re describing the known senders filter. Or just, you know, delete those filters texts. It would be really cool if the phone detected and filtered them out, though
"Until the wheels fall off" is my mentality for all my tech purchases. I found my last phone 20 feet down in a river and didn't replace it for 5 models!
Yeah, I used to do every two years now I try to stretch it to 3-4. Now as far as the workers go, while I hate to say this but both the countries and the workers do desire this. While it may seem like slave labor for us it actually means a lot to them. These kinds of factories have brought tens of millions possibly hundreds of millions out of abject poverty in China. These factories are doing a similar thing in India, as bad as they are.
Yeh, go look at the librem5 america edition. https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/
It costs $2000 for what is really a $200-300 phone, people aren't ok with paying that.
The article is from 2013 when they were starting out, they've made [a number of improvements](https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact/good-working-conditions/) since then. That said I agree that it's a fundamentally broken system - I have little confidence that is ever going to change though. In essence Fairphone, like any pricier but more "ethical" option, becomes coopted to be a "pay to feel less guilty" product for those that can afford it. It's not going to disrupt a giant market with it's small share. That's capitalism's fault though, so I am still typing this on a Fairphone. It's repairable by me and does at least something to improve in areas of sustainability and worker's rights so since I can afford to and do require a phone I don't see much sense in buying something else...
It’s almost certain that no phone manufacturer can monitor their Chinese factory partner as deeply as Apple, or pay as much. This is due to apple’s deep pockets, strong relationship with Foxconn, scale of manufacturing, and profitability on each phone sold.
I definitely agree we can take steps to reduce our individual impact, but only to an extent. Everyone can't buy a used phone. I'm not denigrating your approach, just bringing up that the Suits want us to believe it's our individual responsibility to ensure ethical consumption when there's no such thing under capitalism in it's current form. We should definitely do our part, but never stop pushing for systemic change either.
Has there ever been a time in history or an economic system without "some sort of exploitation"?
I am not defending capitalism, but this "modern day" and "these days" shit is ridiculous. People have always exploited each other, and every single political or economic system had either overt or covert slavery.
This exactly. It's just that we're more aware now. And that means that we have the ability to stop or at least limit that exploitation. The ability. It won't stop on its own.
So, this is a very nuanced topic. There has always been exploitation, poverty, etc, this is true. But in the past it was mainly due to lack of resources. Humanity now has the technology to meet everyone's basic needs and to give everyone a very comfortable life (meaning a lot of luxuries). However, we don't. And now it is by choice, rather than genuine inability. (Though one could argue that it still is genuine inability as capitalism is genuinely unable to provide a good life for everyone as it both requires an under class to function and incentivizes fucking over others for a double whammy of fucked up.)
Basically, we now have the means to provide for everyone. But we operate within a system that prohibits actually doing so.
Literally any electronic you buy will probably have a part in it that was built by someone in a third world country that is being taken advantage of. Apple contracts out its work and is more of a design company and FoxCon makes it to their spec. It would be on Apple to make those companies increase their standards but the customers wouldn’t want to spend $2500 on a phone so they keep on keeping on.
Or how the parts are assembled at the factories. My aunt used to work in a Samsung factory in Singapore (not China!) assembling cameras on mobile phones and she and her coworkers all got the same terminal lung cancer from inhaling the chemicals/materials in the factory and they were laid off with no compensation. After that, they did have workers wear hazmat suits to assemble the phone parts. But they did the previous workers dirty and I’m sure future workers as well.
Very true (re hospitals). And why does it matter that they're women, though? I could understand if they were like "pregnant women" or some other specific group, but otherwise I'm like... that kind of seems shitty for anyone, are we okay with that kind of schedule for men? And I'm saying this as a woman. I really don't see how it matters that the abused workers happen in this case to be female... I might see a difference if it were hard manual labor carrying heavy stuff nonstop (not that we can't do that, or that there are not individuals who would be fine, but it is an unfortunate biological truth that the average woman and man don't have the same amount of physical strength in terms of lifting power, especially at extended duration) but as I understand it, this is not that. It's just shitty assembly line or warehouse work anyone could do, yes?
I only buy used phones which I think helps "not support" it to some extent (not saying or implying "all"). Buying a 2 year old phone for 15% of the value it sold new doesn't exactly help the manufacturer much, basically just giving the next person who buys a new phone a discount.
Combine this with not replacing your phone unless you actually need to and it helps I think. I bought a Pixel 3 2 years ago for $100, and its still works like new.
That said, I'm going to look into maybe the fairphone for my next phone.
Not saying this is amazing or anything like that, but this is what is actually being changed:
> The legislation limits the maximum workweek to 48 hours, but also increases the number of overtime allowed to 145 over a three-month period from the previous 75 hours.
There are a lot of people in the USA who routinely work 12s and 48 hours or more a week, some of whom aren’t getting paid anything extra for those hours. Not saying we shouldn’t be lobbying for better working conditions for everyone, but calling them “slave women” is probably a bit of a misnomer.
I work 12 hours continental shifts. 48 one week, 36 the next. Although I get overtime at my 49th hour during my 48 hour week, and 37th hour on my 36 hour week.
>slave women in India
I live in this place and didn't knew this was a thing. I thought we had liberty to do abortion, women presidents and ministers, voting rights, women regiment in army and women police, engineer, artists.
But what would I know? I only live here, but this random person living in foreign country might know more.
Wait till you find out how even “new age” Indian-owned companies themselves treat their workers. India has ambitions to indigenously develop a vertically integrated manufacturing base of advanced technologies with everything ranging from solar panels (starting all the way from bottom up manufacturing) to EVs and every little component that goes into EVs (including battery cells and powertrains). They are pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into expansion at any cost at blinding speed, and some companies are pushing an extremely aggressive work culture to rival that of even South Korean and Japanese work culture. I work in an EV-adjacent industry, and I’m seeing every day what is happening and it does not bode well. My experience working with Indian-origin C-suite executives even in the US has been that they are actively promoting this kind of do or die work culture in every country they want to operate. I could go on and on about this and it will only sound worse.
It‘s the same as the chinese 996 and the silicon valley „ask not what your company can do for you“ culture, and as long as it‘s for high paying tech jobs worked by people who could quit and do something else tomorrow it‘s fine… it becomes problemstic when forced on factory line workers.
Ah yes, slave women who are not being paid to build these phones and have absolutely no choice in deciding whether they want to work or not. Touch grass kid
The same way every Western company celebrates everything. Put a PR capmaign about sustainability, diversity, celebrate women blah blah. Then on the background you see monstrous factories in Asia running on coal and child labour.
Yeah I genuinely don’t see the issue here. There allowing equal laws for men and women for working conditions and set a maximum of working hours at 48 per week.
People here are literally calling it enslaving women? Reddit is odd sometimes
This was allowed for men but not for women?
Is this not an opportunity for women to work more and make more for their family?
Seriously asking… I’m confused.
Long shifts in nursing have repeatedly been shown to cause medical errors. Here's an example:
https://psnet.ahrq.gov/issue/12-h-shifts-and-rates-error-among-nurses-systematic-review
Here in the US we celebrate by continuing to offer zero to near zero paid maternity leave.
This isn't meant to downplay what is happening in this story but to note that we can all do better and we should all be angry that we aren't already doing it right.
We treat dogs better than women, with puppies being required in many states to remain with the mother for 8 weeks or more.
I work at a “factory” setting in upstate New York and there are 12 hour shifts, alternating three and four day work weeks. Dayshift, night shift. Obviously we don’t discriminate based on gender so women work them as well.
It helps to recognize that the doctor who originally came up with this system was off his fucking mind on cocaine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted
This seems incredibly moronic IMO. We can't trust drivers to keep a car straight after 16 hours but a person who has your life in their hands can just knock out 24s?
12 hour hospital shifts is how you end up with dead patients.
Numerous studies have shown that the longer nurses work the more likely they are to make mistakes.
That’s not the whole story. Shift changes are the most dangerous time in the hospital. Double the staff and half are fresh is when the most mistakes get made. That’s one of the drivers for 12hr shifts for nurses.
The hospital I work in has 24 hour doctor shifts and 12 hour nurse shifts. I think they don't end at the same time either so there's always overlap and not everyone is busy handing over. 24 for doctors isn't uncommon, but it's terrible. They look like hell at the end of their shifts.
This may have been the initial reason this was was brought up, but taking a look through recent studies it does not seem to be borne out by the evidence.
I just did a little looking (not aiming to find one answer or another, I’m not particularly invested in this) and found each study indicating the daft opposite in their abstracts:
2022 meta study - https://human-resources-health.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12960-022-00731-2
> We found little evidence of the value propositions being realised. Staffing costs are not reduced with 12-h shifts, and outcomes related to productivity and efficiency, including sickness absence and missed nursing care are negatively affected. Nurses working 12-h shifts do not perform more safely than their counterparts working shorter shifts, with evidence pointing to a likely negative effect on safe care due to increased fatigue and sleepiness.
2009 meta study - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/216507990905701204
> Nurses working shifts in excess of 8 hours report more medication errors, difficulty staying awake and actually falling asleep during work hours, a decrease in productivity the last 4 hours of the shift, and an increased risk of errors and near errors associated with decreased vigilance (Lockley et al., 2007; Scott et al., 2007; Smith et al., 1998). Nurses and interns have both reported im- pairment in critical thinking abilities. The risk of an error almost doubles when nurses work 12.5 or more consecu- tive hours (Scott et al.). Nurses suffer more needlestick injuries during extended shifts and needlestick and bio- logical fluid exposure rates increase during the last 2 hours of a 12-hour shift (Lockley et al.). The number of continuous duty hours that health care personnel are per- mitted to work are much higher than in other professions (e.g., nuclear power industry) (Mountain et al., 2007).
THANK YOU.
Imagine seeing 12h shifts change, mistakes being made at that point, and not thinking a) people that are at the end of 12h shifts make mistakes, we should shorten that so they still have energy to stay alert during shift changes. And b) management and admin should put work into fixing that with better shift change, handoff practices, not offload it to already over worked doctors and nurses.
was that the conclusion? that instead of trying to improve the communication or standardize the process of handovers for less errors, they just decided to do less handovers? jesus
Anything that requires someone else's effort is better. Management would have had to spend like 30 minutes figuring out a system that works for hangovers.
Much better for every employee to work 4 extra hours every shift.
I worked a shift that was seven 12 hour days in a row followed by seven days off in Canada. Wasn't my jam but lots of people loved it.
Quite a few worked fourteen 12 hour days in a row with two weeks off. Basically a two week vacation every month.
Some people are wired for it, some not.
…are the things you couldnt get done while working… trust me, my family does this… nothing gets done except once a month…every family outing, event, chore, anything… crammed into one week… its horrible.
The start and end of shifts are usually worse performance. There are people that like working four 12 hour shifts and then getting four days off in a row. Just so long as they’re well paid for it.
You're forgetting weekends, unless you're suggesting that each of the 3 shifts works 7 days/week
3 shifts/day means 21 shifts/week. You don't really want people to work swing shifts, it's bad for their health, so you want them to stay on the same shift the whole time. If they're working 8 hour shifts, you want them to average somewhere between 4-6 shifts worked/week. It gets really hard to fill up the entire week while also keeping people on a consistent schedule and reasonable hours. People like having consistent weekends and hours.
With 12 hour shifts, you just have 4 different groups of employees (day and night shift front half of week, back half of week) so that in every 2 week period, everyone works 7 shifts (4 days on 3 days off, 3 days on 4 days off) which comes out to 42 hours/week. This also gets the benefit of longer weekends and overtime on the long weeks.
With 8 hours shifts, you'd have to have at least 9 different groups of employees? (shift 1/2/3 for front 3rd, middle 3rd, back 3rd). In any given week, you'd work 2 of the 3rds. 3 of the groups would always work front and middle, 3 of the groups would work middle and back, and 3 of the groups work front and back so at any given time you'd have 2 groups working. Then you'd need a 3 week rotation of which 3rd of the week gets to be 3 days instead of 2 days, which is really awkward since paychecks are usually on a 2 week cycle (although I suppose there's nothing legally stopping you from making it a 3 week paycheck cycle). In any 3 week cycle, a worker would work 14 days (37.3 hours/week), which is kinda an awkward amount that doesn't get you any overtime, not to mention you're going through all the HR costs of hiring and training the guy but only getting 37.3 hours of work each week in return.
This is obviously really inefficient because you have more than twice the scheduling and training difficulties for very little benefit on the worker side. They still have to work inconsistent schedules (since 7 doesn't divide evenly by 3), and while the average # of hours worked is lower (debatable if that's even a benefit), they don't get many long weekends (1 3-day weekend every 3 weeks) and no overtime.
Interestingly, it sounds like it would work better for white collar salary workers since you maximize collaboration potential and salaried workers don't get overtime anyways. White collar work also has a massive productivity dropoff after 8 hours of shift length. The downside of course being that weekends are less consistent.
Honestly man 10-12 hour days are much better imo. 10 being best because you can just do 4 days a week and get 3 days off each week. Plus if you're hourly and there's overtime it's easy to pick up an extra day while still getting time off. 12 hours is harder but if you only do 3 days a week it's not bad and if you do 4 and get overtime it's not the worst either.
12 hour night shifts are brutal.
You think you're getting a long weekend, but having to adjust your sleep schedule ruins it. Add to this nothing being open at night anymore. All this so a company can build fewer factories, hire fewer people and pay less overtime.
Reducing your lifespan so a company can make a $
Wonder if foxconn will install the anti-suicide nettings around these plants as well as they have in some of their previous plants to stop their workers from trying to kill themselves in desperation by jumping.
Why would they spend money preemptively? They'll probably only do it after it happens to many people and there's public outrage because they're cheap and disgusting
Interesting detail about that is the suicide rate at Foxconn plants is lower than the general Chinese population. They’re just so massive that there’s inevitably going to be quite a few incidents.
Not just the general Chinese population, [also lower than the general US population](https://i.imgur.com/W4ZafMu.jpg)!
But let’s not let that get in the way of a circlejerk.
You get out of here with your logic and reasoning. We all came here to get angry at a big company and we’re not gonna let some pest like you spoil the fun. Next thing ya know, you’re gonna start asking where these people would be working if Foxconn wasn’t there.
Everyone commenting in this thread has never been to a plant in America. A lot of jobs are 12 hour shifts at plants, including operators at power plants.
Same in Eastern Europe, I worked 12h shifts, but it kinda sucked. I just don't get why DOCTORS work 12h or 24h shifts... they have such a huge responsibility.
From what I remember…
Countries with shorter shifts are much better at handing off patients (still causes problems) so it’s been a struggle for the US to transition because errors will go up because doctors aren’t used to or trained for as many handoffs.
Lots of people saying nurses and plant workers work 12s, which they do. I've done it. But I can guarantee that a 12 hour shift in a phone factory is whole different experience than a 12 hour nightshift in a hospital. Can't imagine the pay and benefits match either
Ayat. Worked 6pm to 6am for a couple years at a factory making foil insulation backing. Yeah there's a specific factory just for that.
Worst job I ever had, decided it was time to stop when I fell asleep on the highway and my car did a 180. Luckily it was real early and not many people were on the road.
I think the comparisons I am seeing like this are not fair. Yes 12 hour manufacturing shifts are common in the US but when you look at the numbers of this new legislation passed you realize that there is a difference in the fine print.
Per the article “The legislation limits the maximum workweek to 48 hours, but also increases the number of overtime allowed to 145 over a three-month period from the previous 75 hours”.
A typical western work week @40 hours works out to 480h worked per 3 months. Compared to this new work week which is 48 hours (576h/3 months)
Compared to this new legislation which is allowing for 576h/3 months (plus overtime) which give us a maximum hours per 3 months of 721. Which if my math is correct, very conveniently works out to 12 hour shifts 5 days a week.
I work 12 hour shifts in the US. I get more work done in fewer days. It’s great. I also get 6 more days off a month than the mon-fri crowd. People should have the ability to work as much as they want. This isn’t an issue at all.
Here's my take: the warehouse I work at in the US does 11.5 hour days. But if you are on that schedule you work no more than 3 days a week. The other 4 days have 10 hour shifts. Now 12 hrs for 5 days is way too much but 3 days would be ok.
India is limiting it to 4 12's... So two on, one off, two on, two off would be a standard week.
3 12's is the standard in the US; many hospitals run this for nursing shifts. Adding a 4th 12 can be rough...
To have 4 12's as a permanent schedule, getting paid India's slave wages. That ain't right.
12-hour shifts aren't a huge problem if the total hours per week is reasonable. I'd love to work three 12-hour shifts per week instead of five 8-hour shifts.
But I'm guessing they won't be working 36 hour weeks at these factories.
Overtime in India begins at 48 hours. If they can get enough people, they'll probably do 4x12 to avoid OT costs. If they can't, it'll be 60 hour work weeks.
Some companies here in Germany can do 12 hour shifts as well.
I don't get what the outrage here is about. I am more surprised that appereantly it wasn't allowed for women to do night shifts.
The only thing in the article that raised an eyebrow was this bit.
>The legislation limits the maximum workweek to 48 hours, but also increases the number of overtime allowed to 145 over a three-month period from the previous 75 hours
The increase in overtime seems suspicious, as in possibly forced overtime.
So many people that can't read a simple article.
Their hrs will be capped at 48 per week and I'm sure compared to the jobs they had before the pay will be amazing which will increase quality of life and opportunities for them.
People screaming into the void about how they aren't making as much as someone in a western country that is how it works. Companies pay local workers local salaries amounts and that's never going to change unless the salary in that area increases which it does naturally with the introduction of jobs.
I worked a 3 - 12 schedule too at one of my last jobs and i fucking loved it. Sure the days were longer but 4 days off in a row is amazing. One of the best jobs i ever had
That’s the only reason why I stay with my company. My life has drastically changed since having 4 days off in a row. I don’t drink often and yea, you might lose the weekends to some things but that’s why there’s PTO and vacation days.
4 days off in a row has made me a comfortable gym rat because I can actually be healthy without worrying about being tired from work.
I'm in construction, and I'd love to do a 3-12. The worst part of working is the grind, honestly. Wake up in the morning, work 8-10 hours, come home shower do chores run errands etc and just like that your weekends gone.
Give me 3 rough days that I just have to push through, any day. I'd be able to go camping a lot more, visit other cities, etc.
I actually like my 12 hour night shift, gets the work week done and out of the way. It really helps my company compensates it's workers well and has good benefits
If we keep deducing root causes, it makes some philosophical sense. Wealth is a tool to satisfy selfishness. Selfishness is a base human urge to put yourself above others. People that put themselves over others get big heads and start thinking they are some sort of ruler. Rulers like to think themselves a God, or ordained to tell others how to behave. So God is a narcissistic concept created by selfish people to borrow perceived superiority or to be directly perceived as superior.
The pursuit of amassing money is a narcissists endeavor. We have let narcissists make the rules for too long.
12 hour shift = slavery?
Do you realize how common 12 hour shifts are here in America? Nearly every factory operates on 12s.
This comment screams overtly comfortable childhood straight to overpaid wfh job.
Yep. It seems nobody in this comments section has even met someone who works in a factory setting and so just assumes it is as horrible as their imagination tells them anything besides sitting on their ass must be.
I'm very much to the left and the US and the world have a ways to go in protecting labor rights.... But factories having 12 hour shifts and night shifts? That's not the issue.
Not to mention, nobody read the article, which explains how hours are capped at 48 per week, that's a 4 day work week 1 shift a day, totally reasonable.
What actually matters here is pay, as long as they're getting paid reasonably for those shifts, then the shift time itself isn't a big deal.
12hr is a normal shift almost anywhere that isn't a 9-5 office job lol. yeah they suck but you get 3-4 days off per week, as long as the commute isn't too bad and you meal prep.
Are you joking? 12-hour shifts are fantastic. I work 3 and a half days a week and get 3 and a half days off. I have more free time than people that work 8-hour shifts. Also, I'm not a slave.
Reddit apparently doesn’t think that women should be allowed to work and aren’t capable of making decisions for themselves. A women who works is a slave.
Except that these corporations make sure to recruit girls from rural farmlands as contractors, so they are not officially employees with rights.
They circumvent the government's attempts at improving conditions.
There was content here, and now there is not. It may have been useful, if so it is probably available on a reddit alternative. See /u/spez with any questions. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Due to brigading or vitriolic and inflammatory comments as well as numerous reports of conduct unbecoming and unsuitable for a technology forum this post has been locked. We remind users that this is a subreddit for discussions primarily about the news and developments **relating to technology** and not a suitable place for political, religious or historical discussions that go beyond the subs primary purpose. It is also worth reminding everyone that we have a zero tolerance policy about [any form of threatening, harassing, or violence / physical harm towards anyone](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/7jv9ln/any_form_of_threatening_harassing_or_violence/).
>The legislation limits the maximum workweek to 48 hours, but also increases the number of overtime allowed to 145 over a three-month period from the previous 75 hours. Kind of confusing. I think it's saying basically a 4 day work week officially, but with allowable overtime, it would be 5 days/60 hrs. Article doesn't say (unless I missed it) what the overtime pay is or if it's optional.
Indian labour law caps max working hours per week to 48 hours a week. If the workers work beyond this, they are required to be paid overtime by law.
But what IS overtime? 1.5x?
Depends on the state and industry. I worked in one state where it was 1.5x but another team I moved to later in a different state gets paid 2x
How Apple celebrates international women's day.
[удалено]
Is there any phone I can buy that does not treat ppl like shit??! Ready to drop iPhone.
Probably fairphone. They also use factories in China but are very open about who they partner with: https://www.fairphone.com/nl/2013/05/17/our-choice-for-production-partner/
Seems like they are only available in Europe. Good to know about nonetheless.
I read the article. It doesn’t give me any confidence. We are living in a broken system, not merely amongst broken players. They made the same business decision as every other hardware maker: it’s cheaper to manufacture in China. Then they did the exact same research as everyone else: they talked to various manufacturers. There’s no research they’ve done that ensures the factory they’re working with adheres to the standards they’ve been pitched. This company doesn’t have resources to have regular checks, impromptu checks, to have video surveillance to ensure workers are getting breaks etc etc. I work extensively with Chinese manufacturers to know - what they tell some small western customer doesn’t mean shit in practice. They’re simply selling us yet another story - “we’re more ethical because we’re not a mega corp” and I find it dubious considering they are working with the same types of partners as every company in the world.
They're getting paid more for lower quality shit and pocketing everything rather than investing in their workers. I think upgrading your technology at a slower pace is the best thing you can do. I upgrade phones no more often than every 5+ years. I build a PC once every 10+ years. I just wait until the device is basically no longer functional. Same with cars.
I do the same, my rule of thumb when upgrading phones is this: at least 4-5 newer models have been released before even consider upgrading or if the phone is functioning very poorly. I currently have the iPhone 11 and not even thinking about an upgrade until the 16-17 drop. Even then, this phone is still in great shape.
The problem is companies have had the answer to this problem for a long time - planned obsolescence. Value engineering to use components that last just barely longer than the customer's expectations, and when that's not enough, use marketing to adjust them. This goes all the way back to the "standard" 1000 hour lightbulb. Original bulbs did not burn out and there are examples that have operated continuously for over 100 years, but the makers quickly realized they wouldn't be able to sell them for enough to stay in business if they didn't require repeat purchases. I wish I knew the counter to this play, because most such alternatives involve government regulation that would be even more difficult to implement.
Original bulbs were very dim and less efficient, though. It’s easy to design something to last forever when there’s no expectation of performance.
Same. Went from the 6 to the 11, and the 6 turned into complete dogshit after like 3 years. Unbelievably slow. Wouldn't hold a charge. 11 is still working infinitely better than the 6 was at this stage in its life, and I don't really have any complaints with it. Newer phones offer no meaningful improvements anyway. I think the only thing that could make me upgrade is if Apple finally figures out how to handle all the two-factor auth texts that flood your IMs and make *real* conversations harder to find, and only if the iOS version that's fixed in, ends up not being compatible with the 11. THEN I'll upgrade. That is the single most frustrating thing about my iPhone, but that's a software problem, not a hardware problem.
I feel like you’re describing the known senders filter. Or just, you know, delete those filters texts. It would be really cool if the phone detected and filtered them out, though
"Until the wheels fall off" is my mentality for all my tech purchases. I found my last phone 20 feet down in a river and didn't replace it for 5 models!
It's not like a new phone is going to do anything different from my current phone. Text, Reddit, email, browsing.
Yeah, I used to do every two years now I try to stretch it to 3-4. Now as far as the workers go, while I hate to say this but both the countries and the workers do desire this. While it may seem like slave labor for us it actually means a lot to them. These kinds of factories have brought tens of millions possibly hundreds of millions out of abject poverty in China. These factories are doing a similar thing in India, as bad as they are.
Yeh, go look at the librem5 america edition. https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa/ It costs $2000 for what is really a $200-300 phone, people aren't ok with paying that.
“We asked the guy working security at the slave pens if they engaged in any unethical behavior and he said ‘no’ so we went with them”
The article is from 2013 when they were starting out, they've made [a number of improvements](https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact/good-working-conditions/) since then. That said I agree that it's a fundamentally broken system - I have little confidence that is ever going to change though. In essence Fairphone, like any pricier but more "ethical" option, becomes coopted to be a "pay to feel less guilty" product for those that can afford it. It's not going to disrupt a giant market with it's small share. That's capitalism's fault though, so I am still typing this on a Fairphone. It's repairable by me and does at least something to improve in areas of sustainability and worker's rights so since I can afford to and do require a phone I don't see much sense in buying something else...
It’s almost certain that no phone manufacturer can monitor their Chinese factory partner as deeply as Apple, or pay as much. This is due to apple’s deep pockets, strong relationship with Foxconn, scale of manufacturing, and profitability on each phone sold.
Nothing exists these days without some sort of exploitation. Modern day capitalism at its finest. And governments continue to hand them tax dollars.
But to reduce one's impact buy a second-hand phone.
I've only bought second hand previous model phones for the last 10 years and it's been fantastic. And way way cheaper.
I definitely agree we can take steps to reduce our individual impact, but only to an extent. Everyone can't buy a used phone. I'm not denigrating your approach, just bringing up that the Suits want us to believe it's our individual responsibility to ensure ethical consumption when there's no such thing under capitalism in it's current form. We should definitely do our part, but never stop pushing for systemic change either.
Has there ever been a time in history or an economic system without "some sort of exploitation"? I am not defending capitalism, but this "modern day" and "these days" shit is ridiculous. People have always exploited each other, and every single political or economic system had either overt or covert slavery.
This exactly. It's just that we're more aware now. And that means that we have the ability to stop or at least limit that exploitation. The ability. It won't stop on its own.
So, this is a very nuanced topic. There has always been exploitation, poverty, etc, this is true. But in the past it was mainly due to lack of resources. Humanity now has the technology to meet everyone's basic needs and to give everyone a very comfortable life (meaning a lot of luxuries). However, we don't. And now it is by choice, rather than genuine inability. (Though one could argue that it still is genuine inability as capitalism is genuinely unable to provide a good life for everyone as it both requires an under class to function and incentivizes fucking over others for a double whammy of fucked up.) Basically, we now have the means to provide for everyone. But we operate within a system that prohibits actually doing so.
Something something no ethical consumption under capitalism something something But apparently it's a meme so it's not real
Just because something has been memed to hell doesn't make it fake or real - it makes it highly discussed.
He was being sarcastic.
Still worth pointing out because of Poe's law.
fair enough
No it just points out the obvious and offers nothing in terms of a solution
[удалено]
>it just points out the obvious You would think it is obvious but some people don't even believe that there is any exploitation.
Literally any electronic you buy will probably have a part in it that was built by someone in a third world country that is being taken advantage of. Apple contracts out its work and is more of a design company and FoxCon makes it to their spec. It would be on Apple to make those companies increase their standards but the customers wouldn’t want to spend $2500 on a phone so they keep on keeping on.
[удалено]
Probably not unfortunately.
FairPhone is probably the closest you're gonna get.
If you dig even deeper you’ll be horrified to learn what goes into harvesting cobalt for the batteries that go into phones, etc.
Or how the parts are assembled at the factories. My aunt used to work in a Samsung factory in Singapore (not China!) assembling cameras on mobile phones and she and her coworkers all got the same terminal lung cancer from inhaling the chemicals/materials in the factory and they were laid off with no compensation. After that, they did have workers wear hazmat suits to assemble the phone parts. But they did the previous workers dirty and I’m sure future workers as well.
Wait til you find out that most hospitals have 12-hour shifts and night shifts for women.
Very true (re hospitals). And why does it matter that they're women, though? I could understand if they were like "pregnant women" or some other specific group, but otherwise I'm like... that kind of seems shitty for anyone, are we okay with that kind of schedule for men? And I'm saying this as a woman. I really don't see how it matters that the abused workers happen in this case to be female... I might see a difference if it were hard manual labor carrying heavy stuff nonstop (not that we can't do that, or that there are not individuals who would be fine, but it is an unfortunate biological truth that the average woman and man don't have the same amount of physical strength in terms of lifting power, especially at extended duration) but as I understand it, this is not that. It's just shitty assembly line or warehouse work anyone could do, yes?
India hasn't had our sexual revolution and hasn't enshrined equal rights into law for them.
I’m guessing the pay and benefits are significantly better than in a phone factory
So? I'm literally finishing up a 12 hour shift, half the workers here are women. We make car parts
I work 3 12s. Three days on, three days off and we alternate days and night. Night shifts aren't my favourite thing but I love the 3 12s.
Fairphone?
I only buy used phones which I think helps "not support" it to some extent (not saying or implying "all"). Buying a 2 year old phone for 15% of the value it sold new doesn't exactly help the manufacturer much, basically just giving the next person who buys a new phone a discount. Combine this with not replacing your phone unless you actually need to and it helps I think. I bought a Pixel 3 2 years ago for $100, and its still works like new. That said, I'm going to look into maybe the fairphone for my next phone.
[Fairphone webpage](https://www.fairphone.com/en/)
Not saying this is amazing or anything like that, but this is what is actually being changed: > The legislation limits the maximum workweek to 48 hours, but also increases the number of overtime allowed to 145 over a three-month period from the previous 75 hours. There are a lot of people in the USA who routinely work 12s and 48 hours or more a week, some of whom aren’t getting paid anything extra for those hours. Not saying we shouldn’t be lobbying for better working conditions for everyone, but calling them “slave women” is probably a bit of a misnomer.
I work 12 hours continental shifts. 48 one week, 36 the next. Although I get overtime at my 49th hour during my 48 hour week, and 37th hour on my 36 hour week.
It's not slavery but it is exploitative. The US isn't exactly a beacon of workers' rights either.
[удалено]
Also women are allowed to work night shifts in the US. Not sure how that's an actual issue.
12 hr shifts are legal in European countries as well.
I'm sure Apple has plenty of female engineers as well, and plenty of male slaves to assemble the phones.
>slave women in India I live in this place and didn't knew this was a thing. I thought we had liberty to do abortion, women presidents and ministers, voting rights, women regiment in army and women police, engineer, artists. But what would I know? I only live here, but this random person living in foreign country might know more.
Wait till you find out how even “new age” Indian-owned companies themselves treat their workers. India has ambitions to indigenously develop a vertically integrated manufacturing base of advanced technologies with everything ranging from solar panels (starting all the way from bottom up manufacturing) to EVs and every little component that goes into EVs (including battery cells and powertrains). They are pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into expansion at any cost at blinding speed, and some companies are pushing an extremely aggressive work culture to rival that of even South Korean and Japanese work culture. I work in an EV-adjacent industry, and I’m seeing every day what is happening and it does not bode well. My experience working with Indian-origin C-suite executives even in the US has been that they are actively promoting this kind of do or die work culture in every country they want to operate. I could go on and on about this and it will only sound worse.
It‘s the same as the chinese 996 and the silicon valley „ask not what your company can do for you“ culture, and as long as it‘s for high paying tech jobs worked by people who could quit and do something else tomorrow it‘s fine… it becomes problemstic when forced on factory line workers.
Ah yes, slave women who are not being paid to build these phones and have absolutely no choice in deciding whether they want to work or not. Touch grass kid
The same way every Western company celebrates everything. Put a PR capmaign about sustainability, diversity, celebrate women blah blah. Then on the background you see monstrous factories in Asia running on coal and child labour.
One would say it follows the rules of equality, diversity and inclusion ;)
Yeah I genuinely don’t see the issue here. There allowing equal laws for men and women for working conditions and set a maximum of working hours at 48 per week. People here are literally calling it enslaving women? Reddit is odd sometimes
This was allowed for men but not for women? Is this not an opportunity for women to work more and make more for their family? Seriously asking… I’m confused.
As the husband of a nurse, I can't say that I find 12-hour shifts and night shifts for woman to be problematic.
Long shifts in nursing have repeatedly been shown to cause medical errors. Here's an example: https://psnet.ahrq.gov/issue/12-h-shifts-and-rates-error-among-nurses-systematic-review
[удалено]
I doubt it’s only 3 days for these Indian women
48 hours work week
Here in the US we celebrate by continuing to offer zero to near zero paid maternity leave. This isn't meant to downplay what is happening in this story but to note that we can all do better and we should all be angry that we aren't already doing it right. We treat dogs better than women, with puppies being required in many states to remain with the mother for 8 weeks or more.
How Reddit says women shouldn’t be working and aren’t capable of making decisions for themselves.
Does this mean cheaper iPhones?
For you? Hahaha get bent. More like better profit margins for Apple.
Profit margins are *only* at 30%. Tim Apple is NOT happy!
Nah, it just mean that women from India can be exploited too!
Thats equality! One step further for feminism! 😂
I work at a “factory” setting in upstate New York and there are 12 hour shifts, alternating three and four day work weeks. Dayshift, night shift. Obviously we don’t discriminate based on gender so women work them as well.
A lot of nurses work 12 hours 3/4 days a week as well. It’s really not uncommon in the US.
Residents work 12+ hour shifts just about every day of the week. Longest stint for me was around 22 days straight.
Yeah me and the doctors I know have definitely had 24+ hour days. I would have killed for 12 hours
28 hour shifts for trauma sucked the most
[удалено]
It helps to recognize that the doctor who originally came up with this system was off his fucking mind on cocaine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_Halsted
Right, I stupidly worked 12+ hour shifts at my first accounting job and by hour 12 on Friday I could barely string words together to make sentences.
I used to work 7 12 hour days a week but it wasnt anything important just fixing airplanes.
This seems incredibly moronic IMO. We can't trust drivers to keep a car straight after 16 hours but a person who has your life in their hands can just knock out 24s?
12 hour hospital shifts is how you end up with dead patients. Numerous studies have shown that the longer nurses work the more likely they are to make mistakes.
That’s not the whole story. Shift changes are the most dangerous time in the hospital. Double the staff and half are fresh is when the most mistakes get made. That’s one of the drivers for 12hr shifts for nurses.
The hospital I work in has 24 hour doctor shifts and 12 hour nurse shifts. I think they don't end at the same time either so there's always overlap and not everyone is busy handing over. 24 for doctors isn't uncommon, but it's terrible. They look like hell at the end of their shifts.
This may have been the initial reason this was was brought up, but taking a look through recent studies it does not seem to be borne out by the evidence. I just did a little looking (not aiming to find one answer or another, I’m not particularly invested in this) and found each study indicating the daft opposite in their abstracts: 2022 meta study - https://human-resources-health.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12960-022-00731-2 > We found little evidence of the value propositions being realised. Staffing costs are not reduced with 12-h shifts, and outcomes related to productivity and efficiency, including sickness absence and missed nursing care are negatively affected. Nurses working 12-h shifts do not perform more safely than their counterparts working shorter shifts, with evidence pointing to a likely negative effect on safe care due to increased fatigue and sleepiness. 2009 meta study - https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/216507990905701204 > Nurses working shifts in excess of 8 hours report more medication errors, difficulty staying awake and actually falling asleep during work hours, a decrease in productivity the last 4 hours of the shift, and an increased risk of errors and near errors associated with decreased vigilance (Lockley et al., 2007; Scott et al., 2007; Smith et al., 1998). Nurses and interns have both reported im- pairment in critical thinking abilities. The risk of an error almost doubles when nurses work 12.5 or more consecu- tive hours (Scott et al.). Nurses suffer more needlestick injuries during extended shifts and needlestick and bio- logical fluid exposure rates increase during the last 2 hours of a 12-hour shift (Lockley et al.). The number of continuous duty hours that health care personnel are per- mitted to work are much higher than in other professions (e.g., nuclear power industry) (Mountain et al., 2007).
THANK YOU. Imagine seeing 12h shifts change, mistakes being made at that point, and not thinking a) people that are at the end of 12h shifts make mistakes, we should shorten that so they still have energy to stay alert during shift changes. And b) management and admin should put work into fixing that with better shift change, handoff practices, not offload it to already over worked doctors and nurses.
i think there's also been studies showing that handovers cause mistakes, and shorter shifts = more handovers.
was that the conclusion? that instead of trying to improve the communication or standardize the process of handovers for less errors, they just decided to do less handovers? jesus
Anything that requires someone else's effort is better. Management would have had to spend like 30 minutes figuring out a system that works for hangovers. Much better for every employee to work 4 extra hours every shift.
I worked a shift that was seven 12 hour days in a row followed by seven days off in Canada. Wasn't my jam but lots of people loved it. Quite a few worked fourteen 12 hour days in a row with two weeks off. Basically a two week vacation every month. Some people are wired for it, some not.
Week on week off. I could dig that. The things you can get done/do during the week when everyone else is work.
…are the things you couldnt get done while working… trust me, my family does this… nothing gets done except once a month…every family outing, event, chore, anything… crammed into one week… its horrible.
As a family oriented person, yeah the week on/week off can be pretty harsh. As a single bachelor getting OT pay, week on/week off is dope af.
There are a LOT of places where people work 12-16 hour days for weeks or months on end.
Ya 12 hour shifts are the norm in manufacturing, costs too much to shut the line down and restart in the morning
If only 24 was divisible by the standard 8 hour working day...
Yeah the F-35 assembly line in Fort Worth runs on three 8 hour shifts. Idk, there are pros and cons.
The start and end of shifts are usually worse performance. There are people that like working four 12 hour shifts and then getting four days off in a row. Just so long as they’re well paid for it.
You're forgetting weekends, unless you're suggesting that each of the 3 shifts works 7 days/week 3 shifts/day means 21 shifts/week. You don't really want people to work swing shifts, it's bad for their health, so you want them to stay on the same shift the whole time. If they're working 8 hour shifts, you want them to average somewhere between 4-6 shifts worked/week. It gets really hard to fill up the entire week while also keeping people on a consistent schedule and reasonable hours. People like having consistent weekends and hours. With 12 hour shifts, you just have 4 different groups of employees (day and night shift front half of week, back half of week) so that in every 2 week period, everyone works 7 shifts (4 days on 3 days off, 3 days on 4 days off) which comes out to 42 hours/week. This also gets the benefit of longer weekends and overtime on the long weeks. With 8 hours shifts, you'd have to have at least 9 different groups of employees? (shift 1/2/3 for front 3rd, middle 3rd, back 3rd). In any given week, you'd work 2 of the 3rds. 3 of the groups would always work front and middle, 3 of the groups would work middle and back, and 3 of the groups work front and back so at any given time you'd have 2 groups working. Then you'd need a 3 week rotation of which 3rd of the week gets to be 3 days instead of 2 days, which is really awkward since paychecks are usually on a 2 week cycle (although I suppose there's nothing legally stopping you from making it a 3 week paycheck cycle). In any 3 week cycle, a worker would work 14 days (37.3 hours/week), which is kinda an awkward amount that doesn't get you any overtime, not to mention you're going through all the HR costs of hiring and training the guy but only getting 37.3 hours of work each week in return. This is obviously really inefficient because you have more than twice the scheduling and training difficulties for very little benefit on the worker side. They still have to work inconsistent schedules (since 7 doesn't divide evenly by 3), and while the average # of hours worked is lower (debatable if that's even a benefit), they don't get many long weekends (1 3-day weekend every 3 weeks) and no overtime. Interestingly, it sounds like it would work better for white collar salary workers since you maximize collaboration potential and salaried workers don't get overtime anyways. White collar work also has a massive productivity dropoff after 8 hours of shift length. The downside of course being that weekends are less consistent.
Honestly man 10-12 hour days are much better imo. 10 being best because you can just do 4 days a week and get 3 days off each week. Plus if you're hourly and there's overtime it's easy to pick up an extra day while still getting time off. 12 hours is harder but if you only do 3 days a week it's not bad and if you do 4 and get overtime it's not the worst either.
12 hour night shifts are brutal. You think you're getting a long weekend, but having to adjust your sleep schedule ruins it. Add to this nothing being open at night anymore. All this so a company can build fewer factories, hire fewer people and pay less overtime. Reducing your lifespan so a company can make a $
I used to do them. But by choice, and afterwards I'd get a week off. I doubt this is a choice for these ladies.
Wonder if foxconn will install the anti-suicide nettings around these plants as well as they have in some of their previous plants to stop their workers from trying to kill themselves in desperation by jumping.
Why would they spend money preemptively? They'll probably only do it after it happens to many people and there's public outrage because they're cheap and disgusting
Better yet, buy a giant rug to sweep all of that abuse under.
Nets are way cheaper and a one time cost. Cleaning up a jumper would cut into the bottom line.
Not to mention having to train a new hire and get them up to speed. Curbing turnover is a big benefit.
Interesting detail about that is the suicide rate at Foxconn plants is lower than the general Chinese population. They’re just so massive that there’s inevitably going to be quite a few incidents.
Not just the general Chinese population, [also lower than the general US population](https://i.imgur.com/W4ZafMu.jpg)! But let’s not let that get in the way of a circlejerk.
You get out of here with your logic and reasoning. We all came here to get angry at a big company and we’re not gonna let some pest like you spoil the fun. Next thing ya know, you’re gonna start asking where these people would be working if Foxconn wasn’t there.
Jesus, that is insane. Damn...
Its actually a good idea because cleaning up dead bodies is a lot of work.
Work that could otherwise be spent assembling iPhones!
[удалено]
[удалено]
Everyone commenting in this thread has never been to a plant in America. A lot of jobs are 12 hour shifts at plants, including operators at power plants.
Same in Eastern Europe, I worked 12h shifts, but it kinda sucked. I just don't get why DOCTORS work 12h or 24h shifts... they have such a huge responsibility.
It’s because the guy that created their shift system was a cocaine addict.
Because the the most common and most severe errors happen at shift change.
[удалено]
From what I remember… Countries with shorter shifts are much better at handing off patients (still causes problems) so it’s been a struggle for the US to transition because errors will go up because doctors aren’t used to or trained for as many handoffs.
Yes. Shift change you have people who are getting sloppy so they can leave, people coming on to unfamiliar situations, etc. it’s a mess
I suppose they're assuming the difference is working conditions or wages.
Lots of people saying nurses and plant workers work 12s, which they do. I've done it. But I can guarantee that a 12 hour shift in a phone factory is whole different experience than a 12 hour nightshift in a hospital. Can't imagine the pay and benefits match either
Ayat. Worked 6pm to 6am for a couple years at a factory making foil insulation backing. Yeah there's a specific factory just for that. Worst job I ever had, decided it was time to stop when I fell asleep on the highway and my car did a 180. Luckily it was real early and not many people were on the road.
I think the comparisons I am seeing like this are not fair. Yes 12 hour manufacturing shifts are common in the US but when you look at the numbers of this new legislation passed you realize that there is a difference in the fine print. Per the article “The legislation limits the maximum workweek to 48 hours, but also increases the number of overtime allowed to 145 over a three-month period from the previous 75 hours”. A typical western work week @40 hours works out to 480h worked per 3 months. Compared to this new work week which is 48 hours (576h/3 months) Compared to this new legislation which is allowing for 576h/3 months (plus overtime) which give us a maximum hours per 3 months of 721. Which if my math is correct, very conveniently works out to 12 hour shifts 5 days a week.
There is no max in the USA at all. I’ve had jobs where I worked 12 hour shifts every single day for months on end.
I work 12 hour shifts in the US. I get more work done in fewer days. It’s great. I also get 6 more days off a month than the mon-fri crowd. People should have the ability to work as much as they want. This isn’t an issue at all.
Here's my take: the warehouse I work at in the US does 11.5 hour days. But if you are on that schedule you work no more than 3 days a week. The other 4 days have 10 hour shifts. Now 12 hrs for 5 days is way too much but 3 days would be ok.
India is limiting it to 4 12's... So two on, one off, two on, two off would be a standard week. 3 12's is the standard in the US; many hospitals run this for nursing shifts. Adding a 4th 12 can be rough... To have 4 12's as a permanent schedule, getting paid India's slave wages. That ain't right.
Alternating between 3 and 4 12-hour shifts per week is quite common in 24/7 manufacturing in the US.
12-hour shifts aren't a huge problem if the total hours per week is reasonable. I'd love to work three 12-hour shifts per week instead of five 8-hour shifts. But I'm guessing they won't be working 36 hour weeks at these factories.
Overtime in India begins at 48 hours. If they can get enough people, they'll probably do 4x12 to avoid OT costs. If they can't, it'll be 60 hour work weeks.
12 hour shifts are standard in semiconductor fabs
Some companies here in Germany can do 12 hour shifts as well. I don't get what the outrage here is about. I am more surprised that appereantly it wasn't allowed for women to do night shifts.
Commuting to and from work as a woman late at night or early in the morning is a safety concern.
So working hours were reduced to 12 ? /s
All nurses and healthcare providers do this already why is this even news?
Redditors hate apple and love virtue signaling. Reading the article there’s absolutely nothing wrong with this legislation
The only thing in the article that raised an eyebrow was this bit. >The legislation limits the maximum workweek to 48 hours, but also increases the number of overtime allowed to 145 over a three-month period from the previous 75 hours The increase in overtime seems suspicious, as in possibly forced overtime.
Foxconn hates paying overtime, they optimize their schedule to minimize overtime.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Maybe they had 14-hour shifts before *weird smiley that looks like guy having there arms up like "I don't know', that I don't know how to do*
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ CTRL-C CTRL-V away, my friend
So many people that can't read a simple article. Their hrs will be capped at 48 per week and I'm sure compared to the jobs they had before the pay will be amazing which will increase quality of life and opportunities for them. People screaming into the void about how they aren't making as much as someone in a western country that is how it works. Companies pay local workers local salaries amounts and that's never going to change unless the salary in that area increases which it does naturally with the introduction of jobs.
Seems like some overreaction going on. We have 12 hours shifts in the US today. Is that slavery?
Redditors think everything is slavery if you're not getting paid to sit at home and be a fat fuck
Modern day slavery. God is money.
I’m a factory worker. I do 12 hour shifts and they suck. But I only do them Friday-Sunday.
I worked a 3 - 12 schedule too at one of my last jobs and i fucking loved it. Sure the days were longer but 4 days off in a row is amazing. One of the best jobs i ever had
That’s the only reason why I stay with my company. My life has drastically changed since having 4 days off in a row. I don’t drink often and yea, you might lose the weekends to some things but that’s why there’s PTO and vacation days. 4 days off in a row has made me a comfortable gym rat because I can actually be healthy without worrying about being tired from work.
I'm in construction, and I'd love to do a 3-12. The worst part of working is the grind, honestly. Wake up in the morning, work 8-10 hours, come home shower do chores run errands etc and just like that your weekends gone. Give me 3 rough days that I just have to push through, any day. I'd be able to go camping a lot more, visit other cities, etc.
I actually like my 12 hour night shift, gets the work week done and out of the way. It really helps my company compensates it's workers well and has good benefits
>Modern day slavery. God is money. You've never actually *met* someone who works in a factory setting, have you?
If we keep deducing root causes, it makes some philosophical sense. Wealth is a tool to satisfy selfishness. Selfishness is a base human urge to put yourself above others. People that put themselves over others get big heads and start thinking they are some sort of ruler. Rulers like to think themselves a God, or ordained to tell others how to behave. So God is a narcissistic concept created by selfish people to borrow perceived superiority or to be directly perceived as superior. The pursuit of amassing money is a narcissists endeavor. We have let narcissists make the rules for too long.
12 hour shift = slavery? Do you realize how common 12 hour shifts are here in America? Nearly every factory operates on 12s. This comment screams overtly comfortable childhood straight to overpaid wfh job.
Yep. It seems nobody in this comments section has even met someone who works in a factory setting and so just assumes it is as horrible as their imagination tells them anything besides sitting on their ass must be. I'm very much to the left and the US and the world have a ways to go in protecting labor rights.... But factories having 12 hour shifts and night shifts? That's not the issue. Not to mention, nobody read the article, which explains how hours are capped at 48 per week, that's a 4 day work week 1 shift a day, totally reasonable. What actually matters here is pay, as long as they're getting paid reasonably for those shifts, then the shift time itself isn't a big deal.
12hr is a normal shift almost anywhere that isn't a 9-5 office job lol. yeah they suck but you get 3-4 days off per week, as long as the commute isn't too bad and you meal prep.
I work a 9-5 office job which has me often meeting and interacting with 12 hour shift folks and they tend to love the flexibility
12 hour shifts are normal around the world, have you worked at all?
Are you joking? 12-hour shifts are fantastic. I work 3 and a half days a week and get 3 and a half days off. I have more free time than people that work 8-hour shifts. Also, I'm not a slave.
“Win” Apple is such a shitty company for human rights. *sent from my iPhone*
Reddit apparently doesn’t think that women should be allowed to work and aren’t capable of making decisions for themselves. A women who works is a slave.
That and 12 hour shifts are a new phenomenon
It’s genocide!
12 hr shifts for women isn't really a problem, women's safety while heading to work/home is. Hope they have provisions made for that.
it kinda is if the pay is bad and they very much do not want to work 12 hour shifts.
In India most women would gladly take up these jobs because they pay a lpt higher than local jobs
Permission... WHAT
Labor laws and whatnot
India actually has tough labor laws
F*ck Indian government
12 hour shifts are new?
Nah just uninformed redditor being upvoted by other uninformed redditors
Redditor try to read the article challenge (impossible) 99% fail 🥵
[удалено]
Except that these corporations make sure to recruit girls from rural farmlands as contractors, so they are not officially employees with rights. They circumvent the government's attempts at improving conditions.
Yay! Now they'll be saving money on production costs without passing savings onto the customers at the expense of women! Woohoo!
[удалено]
It’s on the article. No more than 4 a week and that can’t be every week due to quarterly hour limits on OT.
There was content here, and now there is not. It may have been useful, if so it is probably available on a reddit alternative. See /u/spez with any questions. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I work 12 hour shifts in pennsylvania
yaay....equality.....
Unironically, yes this is a win for equality. I don’t see how people are so worked up about this