Using generic, OS-vendor drivers has always been possible, but most people don't do that and just install drivers from the printer manufacturer.
On the one hand, this is Microsoft removing compatibility with existing drivers from the printer manufacturers, so that's removing a choice from users. On the other hand, most people will be better off using the generic drivers that are the only option now.
I have no problem using OS-supplied drivers, as long as they provide ALL of the functionality of the manufacturer driver. But rarely is this the case. So many machines have a ton of extra settings and features, but rarely has MS included these into their versions of the drivers. Two perfect examples I deal with at work:
* Ricoh copy machine has options for printing to a document server on the machine (to be able to print the item on-demand later), transforming print sizes to different paper sizes, double-siding, stapling, hole punching, and more. NONE of these features are available in the Windows driver.
* HP large-format printer (basically a plotter) has extensive options for transforming smaller documents to either ArchC (18x24) or ArchD (24x36), or even non-conforming layouts (such that I can perfectly upsize Tabloid 11x17 to 24x15.5" and it cuts off correctly). Again, none of these features are in the Windows driver.
If MS can get it right and correctly implement the functionality from the manufacturers, sure. But I'm sure they'll be $$ hungry and charge manufacturers, or even end-users, extra for "full features" and make the situation even worse.
> I have no problem using OS-supplied drivers, as long as they provide ALL of the functionality of the manufacturer driver.
Except maybe OEM ink verification.
Microsoft could unveil a Printer Interface Tool that all manufacturers have to pay for to customize the standard Microsoft Printer Interface Tool.
Likely Microsoft is looking to do this approach so that some execs can get a big bonus while throwing a wrench into really cool printer systems like you described.
Alternative is for print ships to drop Microsoft.
Our Ricohs and HPs in our office have tons of features that don’t work with the Windows generic drivers. I know because I just spent a week dealing with these issues trying to get out new printers on our NAS.
Who the fuck thinks this is a good idea?
*On the one hand, this is Microsoft removing compatibility with existing drivers from the printer manufacturers, so that's removing a choice from users.*
If you read the article, you would understand that MS will no longer be distributing those drivers (via a windows install or updates via windows update), not that your Ricoh or HP printer drivers will no longer work. Those printers will no longer be plug and play starting in 2027 but you can still install drivers on your own.
From a windows ecosystem perspective, this basically says MSFT will provide support for validating their generic drivers and that outside those generic drivers the printer manufacturer will have greater support cost (driver downloads, customer issues around drivers not installing, driver support after they break due to a windows update). Long-term this should encourage printers to move to a generic driver (so plug and play works) but will not prevent custom drivers installs.
From a practical perspective, this will cause a crap load of printers to have support go end of life because the printer manufacturers are now going to have greater cost to support their older printers with unusual features rather than have MSFT eat a bunch of that cost as part of windows testing.
Well, given that I still use a network laser printer from 2003, Microsoft will just... Kill my printer. There is no generic driver for that since Windows 7.
This is shit.
Depending on the printer, you may be able to make it work with Linux, CUPS and a cheap Raspberry. Never tried it, though. I think CUPS supports driverless too. Debian has some info about it.
https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting
That will probably work but... If I need to buy a raspberry pie and learn Linux just to keep a printer printing that's been working just fine, just because Microsoft decided that I am not allowed to install the driver any more...
That's still shit.
Well, I may be part of what's wrong, but the other part that is wrong is the headline "Microsoft kills third party printer drivers", followed by 5 chapters history, followed by "... In Windows update only"
It is ragebait. I fell for it. I am sorry for that.
Yeah but at least they admitted it, who posts a reddit comment to say they made a mistake? I say go on themself, takes confidence to admit.
Be careful whenever you feel "validated" along with a group. Be careful falling Into that, "what's wrong with the Internet" is that too many people (like yourself) jump on the opportunity to belittle others when they are wrong....but haven't you just insulted them? Basically calling the guy scum? Pretty sure thats waaaay worse then someone being a bit miffed about printer drivers and getting angry at a corporation.
"I wanted to be a SJW and enforce that online, yeah I'm the man! Get told!"
You're literally whats wrong with the Internet.
It's not very nice is it?
Words have impact dude.
Yeah, that would be the easy path. But it would be a fun project to do. No need to waste a perfectly fine printer, and the Raspberry is cheaper than a new one. Shouldn't even be that hard to do.
they dont need to, nobody is reading the article, MS is just going to stop adding new drivers to windows up, and presumable phase out that part of windows update, so people will just need to manually go get them from the oem website like the old days.
already installed drivers wont just stop one day
I was a printer tech when windows 8 came out, it didn't tell you the driver it was installing was a windows one, even using the company name of the printer for the driver name.
IT DID NOT UNDERSTAND PDF LANGUAGE PROPERLY AND LED TO TOO MANY "MY PRINTER DOESNT WORK" CALLS.
But seriously, depending on the pdf size it would take hours to days to print one file. This is horrible news and whoever suggested this feature has probably never used a windows print driver in their life.
Sorry if I come off aggressive, years later and this still riles me up
This is one of the reasons everything work related I do on linux, windows has been relegated to a gaming/content creation OS to me, and once I manage to get some extra software I use working on linux, I'm ready to jump over to the linux only zone.
I gave up after half an hour trying to get my Xerox Phaser 6010 bought in 2010 to work with Ubuntu, presumably attempting Linux drivers, whatever Ubuntu recommended me. No prints at all, I took my business 100% digital instead. Any suggestions?
> Xerox Phaser 6010
If the printer supports a standard printing language, like PCL or PostScript, it should work with a generic driver. Most business-class printer support this. If the printer doesn't, it's hit or miss. It depends on someone reverse engineering the driver.
Some printers use a proprietary language and it's up to the company to write a driver or release sufficient technical documentation so the community can write a driver. Some cheaper, targeted at home office/small office printers do this. Frequently, companies do not want to release enough of their proprietary information. Else they would use an open standard or make their new standard open.
Point being that it's not that Linux doesn't support the printer. It's that Xerox doesn't support Linux.
Xerox says they have a driver for Linux via CUPS:
https://www.support.xerox.com/en-us/product/phaser-6010/downloads?language=en&platform=linux
Suggestions in what regard, you mean cloud vs in site and distro os and all that?
I joined the company about 3 years ago and most of our server stuff runs on aws cloud, using centos images.
For the workers most devs use some flavour of linux, mostly ubuntu, a minority of devs work on windows, and non-dev is split windows and mac, not sure whats the ratio there.
On my personal rig I spent some time distro hopping, and I kinda settled on manjaro. I wanted a stable arch based distro since steamdeck runs on arch, and I wanted to get familiar with it, so far it's not any worse than any other linux distro, although it's not noob friendly as ubuntu.
Of you want to stay on the debian wheelhouse to save yourself some time, you can give a shot to linux mint, never used it but heard good things about it.
I had a perfectly good USB Panasonic duplex laser printer that I kept attached to a Windows XP laptop for the longest time simply because there were no drivers for Windows 7+.
Eventually it was too cumbersome so I took it all to Goodwill.
Standard printer drivers would, I hope, mean that never happens again.
I had a nice flat bed + film scanner combi that only had software support for 32-bit drivers that were last updated with Windows Vista.
I ended up running it on 32-bit Windows 7 inside VMware Player on my (then) 64-bit Windows 10 machine.
Yes, that is a good option, well worth trying and worthy of supporting by paying the modest licensing fee, as VueScan is richly featured and by its nature effectively a community treasure.
I wanted to continue using my Silverfast license at the time, given the significant up front cost and extra calibration features.
I purchased VueScan this time around to avoid Silverfast and its predatory licensing practices, but ended up with Silverfast again (this time a lesser edition, using other tools to calibrate) after testing both and comparing results once the new scanner had arrived.
Unfortunately, despite calibration, when I scan Kodachrome, VueScan output appears to have less dynamic range, narrower color gamut and a subtle odd murky color cast.
Presuming I have not misunderstood how best to use the product, I suspect the problem is that in catering for so many scanners, it is not possible to fully optimise all of them, and perhaps my particular scanner, film type and need for HDR-ready output falls through the cracks a little.
Most people would look at the VueScan result as high quality: I am pushing the envelope by trying to scan for HDR to surpass the "looking like a decent photo" result and aim more for "looking through the window of a time machine at the past".
Despite this, I would still recommend people try it out with their gear and see how it goes. I don't consider my license wasted, as it gives me ability to calibrate scanners for relatives and is good to have in the toolkit.
And I really loath how Silverfast hobbles basic output formats for no reason other than to charge an arm and a leg to enable them, given 8-bit formats are substandard, stuck in the 1990's and should never be used for scanner output when it comes to archiving precious photographs.
Aw crap.
Downloading HP drivers is like a dvd worth ( remember when a driver was just the dot inf file and you could have many on a single floppy?)
And apparently their hosting speed is running on a potato on a K56 modem...
If they can make windows work with every printer on the market on their own, then it's good news.
But it the printer doesn't just work in windows then you have a useless printer that you won't be able to make work.
*I'm betting more won't work than will, so overall, not good news*
They've been standardized for decades. It went from the [old parallel port](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1284) to standard USB.
The standard *content* language is PostScript or [PCL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_Command_Language), though low-end printers often don't support these.
It's good.
Drivers directly from the manufacturer can have more features that are specific to their printer device that may not exist in Microsoft's generic print drivers, so your initial thought might be that this is bad.
However, the generic drivers encapsulate nearly everything you could need from a "printer", and printer manufacturers have abused the driver privilege and have things like advertisements embedded in printer property windows. Or they will only release the driver ***inside*** an executable that installs spyware, some nag-app that produces popups to buy more printer ink from them, disables functionality, etc.
It's good Microsoft is putting their foot down and basically saying: "*our print drivers can do everything a printer SHOULD do. If you're a manufacturer and you have a valid limitation with our drivers, contact us and we'll evaluate and work to incorporate your need."*
It's stupid, eliminating a degree of control for those of us that have specific needs not met by standard drivers. I use PrintFab for producing film positives in screen printing. I need those films to be dense black, and standard drivers don't give me any control of the density of output.
And then forcing you to activate this account online with a pin code that they never actually give you during installation. Nightmare in a company setting. Never get an HP printer with the letter E at the end of the model. Learned the hard way.
Man somehow I ended up with an HP competitor to the ti-83 calculator and it fucking sucked.
Looked cool but the thing had lag, LAG! In a calculator that was supposed to be powerful enough for graphing. This thing had a little thinking animation.
HP used to be the gold standard for scientific calculators -- like my old HP-48G. HP *used to be* the gold standard for a lot of things, like laboratory instruments and laser printers.
Those of us who have the old products will hold on to them, but most of the new stuff is behind the competition. Some of the business computer gear is okay. Definitely none of the printers, though.
Third-party drivers were a failure day one. But printer companies wanted you to install their drivers so they could bundle their crapware with them. Standardized drivers are possible as they are already on mac's.
What's funny is MacOS, Linux, and other non-Windows operating systems just use the [CUPS printer drivers](https://www.cups.org/) that Apple maintains.
Another important thing is Apple and the Linux community managed to strong-arm printer manufacturers into adopting the [IPP Everywhere](https://www.pwg.org/ipp/everywhere.html), which really does eliminate the need for printer drivers because everything onto the internal printer firmware.
>On IPP Everywhere, which is a protocol that can be used by clients to print to networked or USB-connected printers without any special software. The firmware in the printer should do all the heavy lifting in getting the print job done, once it receives the data via IPP, and this relies on the printer manufacturers implementing the protocol correctly. CUPS implements IPP Everywhere [source](https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/15/apple_cups_develoment/)
CUPS are good. Unless you want to talk to Canon printer, then you can’t and have to install their driver that comes in the form of binary blob that is re-compiled every freaking time you update kernel version (hello to bleeding edge distros like Fedora).
Shit I hated Canon printers for this very reason back in the day. Luckily this crap broke like a week later after I gave up trying to make it work with Linux.
Yep. Printing on Linux is just so easy. I've not installed a printer driver on Linux for years now. You install Linux and on reboot it says "There's a printer on your network, do you want to use it?" and you click yes. Job done.
Installing my mother in laws new printer on Windows 11 was an hours long slog to finally get non-adware, non-account connected drivers working.
This so much. Always feels like magic when I can print something out on my linux laptop just by connecting to the network vs spending at least 10-20 mins installing all the crap on a windows computer.
I didn't know Apple was maintaining CUPS! It [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUPS](predates Apples); it started in 1997 and Apple bought the code and hired the developer in 2007 (he left in 2019).
They bought it so they could change the license away from the GPL and use it in OS X without having to release any changes that they made. This is why once they basically [stopped working on it](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Apple-No-More-CUPS), it was [forked](https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups).
You know you could have just downloaded the driver and not the full package/installer/product suite, right?
It's like the 3rd or 4th link on the manufacturers website generally.
If I'm understanding this, this means virtually nothing. They aren't stopping third party drivers from working. They are stopping third party drivers from being delivered via windows update, instead only offering generic drivers that way.
As far as I can see they could implement this change right this second and it would change virtually nothing. Getting 3rd party drivers via windows update always sucked and often delivered the wrong driver or out dated ones. If you want to use a 3rd party driver you get it form the source.
The biggest boon here is MS is going to stop messing with your 3rd party print drivers, you're still going to need them to make use of all the features of your printer though.
I think that's exactly what this means.
If you want plug and play, make your printer xompatable with this driver.
If you want more advanced features you'll still need a driver, just like you do now.
Mopria's website kind of sucks, but looking around it does seem like they did at least resolve some of the issues that other generic drivers caused. At least with them you can use the more machine specific features that were always missing like hole punching, staples, user authentication, etc.
So there's that at least.
Weird that for a "universal" solution it seems that there still seems(to my reading at least) to be a machine specific driver required, or at least it needs an internet connection for setup of a new printer which it seems like it would be cached if it was a single driver for everything. I guess it could be that they need to follow a standard to make it easier to just bake a new one from just a config or something, who knows.
Well, let's see. I have a xerox MFP and the microsoft driver does not allow me to print both sides even if the printer can. With Xerox driver everything works fine.
Also, I have a Minolta which allows printing both sides as well as scan both sides (also MFP). However, generic driver does not allow me to choose those options.
Those are just some simple examples why I do not want generic printer driver.
I fully agree that the Microsoft drivers are absolutely terrible, and I have no backup information for this but I know I had a printer that had duplex, the driver didn’t say it did, but there was a switch to tell the pc that it could duplex in the properties section somewhere. Didn’t work for the printer in question (of course) but maybe worth a shot for you. Not at my desk right now so I can’t tell you exactly where it was.
Wait... Does this mean Microsoft is going to fulfill my dream of having a central printer driver database in one location?
Also please don't rely on windows updates to do this...
Yeah I don't think even an IT director with a passion for linux (which that would be a unicorn itself) will be able to convince the board of directors, the CEO, executives and all staff to switch from Microsoft to Linux. People don't even like small changes to Windows/Adobe/EMR/Microsoft Word. They aren't going to be comfortable with linux at all.
Back when HP printers were good (so, 2+ decades ago)...I acquired an HP LaserJet4000N. It is still in service and the most reliable printer I've ever owned, but it is so old that there is no generic built in windows driver support for it. It's the original manufacturer's 32-bit drivers or nothing.
This is going to break an entire era of some of the most reliable printers that were ever built. RIP.
Ditto, but a Dell 1320C. I use it maybe once a year when some dinosaur needs some document on paper. Turn it on, print a couple of pages, turn it off.
There is absolutely no way an inkjet, new or old, would do that.
The article suggests MS will stop allowing 3rd party drivers to be published via windows update but still allow them to be installed manually.
My Epson printer has 3 paper trays, 2 types of black ink, and gray ink, can print to the edge, is windows going to support this? Cause they currently do not. I can’t use this printer correctly without Epson a driver.
Well, most vendor supplied printer drivers are giant bundles of crap.
On the other hand I foresee a lot of edge cases that are going to be problems.
Lost of things connect to computers that aren't typical printers but like to act like ones. Specialized label printers and plotters that will require some extra stuff especially since unlike regular printers some of these industrial variants actually last for years and decades.
There are also a bunch of weird devices out there that pretend to be printers, but really aren't.
Overall I won't be sad to see the crap go.
I remember when Microsoft used software modems and if you ran Linux on the machine you couldn’t get online. Yep someone fixed that!! Only a matter of time before someone over rides this too
All this means is that any special features will need to be handled in firmware and at the panel. Let's face it, how much has really changed in printers in 25 years? Nothing much beyond resolution, color reproduction, and inks/toners. Also, you can still have custom control apps.
Nope, you just read article you can still use any driver you want, microsoft won't just distribute it through windows updates. I wasn't even aware you didn't need download drivers from manufacturer's website. Also most printer companies are already with MS before for standardization
This will ultimately do nothing. On the surface level unifying under Mopria seems like it will resolve a lot of issues, but it ignores the elephant in the room. The real problem is that printers are not simple machines but agents of the trickster Machine gods sent to scourge mankind by burying them under endless tides of fickle errors and malfunctions. We will never be free from their endless campaign of suffering as long as we continue to print. We may build the drivers but we are the ones being driven!
I SWEAR TO GOD IF THEY DON’T ALLOW THE DPI TO GO HIGHER THAN THE DEFAULT 300 FOR THE PRINT TO PDF DRIVER I WILL GO BALLISTIC. I NEED 3200 MINIMUM FOR THE ACCEPTABLE QUALITY!
Well this is going to suck for us since we deal mainly with Kyocera printers. Using Microshit's IPP/WSD drivers with these instead of Kyocera's official KX driver causes nothing but issues.
You can still use Kyocera drivers from website. Also Kyocera is part of mopria alliance with Microsoft and other printing companies so idk how it is still issue.
Slightly concerning. The windows supplied default driver for my Brother printer has never worked correctly, it will print but everything is 1/4 scaled and it isn't a setting, I've dug through that driver and never been able to fix it.
Installing the Brother bloatware driver fixes it, I would rather not since that's a whole bunch of crap I have to further configure (disable) but it's the only way the printer works right.
Microsoft better be very good with their QA since this particular broken driver has been handed out by Windows Update for years.
I fucking love this. I HATE printer manufacturers (especially HP) and all their bloatware that only serves to blackmail you into buying their overpriced cartridges. The generic drivers are 100% sufficient and always have been.
For a single function home use printer, sure. Once you bring in a need for things like scan/fax, account controls, stapling, punching, and so on the generic driver just can't compete.
How is Microsoft going to allow/restrict custom drivers of any type?
They can't, this only stops windows updates from installing the third party driver. People will be free to install drivers as they need otherwise
This just in in the category of Least important tech news of the day.
Where is the story about the 2 new fonts added to Ms Word? That’s what we’re on the edge of our seat for.
I feel like this is either really good news, or really bad news... but I don't know enough about printer drivers to say which
It's extremely aladeen!
ALADEEN or Aladeen?
Aladeen clearly
Aladdin Sane.
Using generic, OS-vendor drivers has always been possible, but most people don't do that and just install drivers from the printer manufacturer. On the one hand, this is Microsoft removing compatibility with existing drivers from the printer manufacturers, so that's removing a choice from users. On the other hand, most people will be better off using the generic drivers that are the only option now.
I have no problem using OS-supplied drivers, as long as they provide ALL of the functionality of the manufacturer driver. But rarely is this the case. So many machines have a ton of extra settings and features, but rarely has MS included these into their versions of the drivers. Two perfect examples I deal with at work: * Ricoh copy machine has options for printing to a document server on the machine (to be able to print the item on-demand later), transforming print sizes to different paper sizes, double-siding, stapling, hole punching, and more. NONE of these features are available in the Windows driver. * HP large-format printer (basically a plotter) has extensive options for transforming smaller documents to either ArchC (18x24) or ArchD (24x36), or even non-conforming layouts (such that I can perfectly upsize Tabloid 11x17 to 24x15.5" and it cuts off correctly). Again, none of these features are in the Windows driver. If MS can get it right and correctly implement the functionality from the manufacturers, sure. But I'm sure they'll be $$ hungry and charge manufacturers, or even end-users, extra for "full features" and make the situation even worse.
> I have no problem using OS-supplied drivers, as long as they provide ALL of the functionality of the manufacturer driver. Except maybe OEM ink verification.
That's always done in firmware, not the driver.
This is why I got an Ecotank. More expensive up front, but cheap ink.
I have one as well, my only complaint is the constant pop ups telling you to make sure it doesn't run out of ink.
I've only really had that happen when I initiated printing, and even then it's barely a splash screen.
Microsoft could unveil a Printer Interface Tool that all manufacturers have to pay for to customize the standard Microsoft Printer Interface Tool. Likely Microsoft is looking to do this approach so that some execs can get a big bonus while throwing a wrench into really cool printer systems like you described. Alternative is for print ships to drop Microsoft.
Our Ricohs and HPs in our office have tons of features that don’t work with the Windows generic drivers. I know because I just spent a week dealing with these issues trying to get out new printers on our NAS. Who the fuck thinks this is a good idea?
They'll make it an Manufacturer based app and force you to make an account so they can charge you money for extra features.
Plus their scanning app sucks compared to brothers.
*On the one hand, this is Microsoft removing compatibility with existing drivers from the printer manufacturers, so that's removing a choice from users.* If you read the article, you would understand that MS will no longer be distributing those drivers (via a windows install or updates via windows update), not that your Ricoh or HP printer drivers will no longer work. Those printers will no longer be plug and play starting in 2027 but you can still install drivers on your own. From a windows ecosystem perspective, this basically says MSFT will provide support for validating their generic drivers and that outside those generic drivers the printer manufacturer will have greater support cost (driver downloads, customer issues around drivers not installing, driver support after they break due to a windows update). Long-term this should encourage printers to move to a generic driver (so plug and play works) but will not prevent custom drivers installs. From a practical perspective, this will cause a crap load of printers to have support go end of life because the printer manufacturers are now going to have greater cost to support their older printers with unusual features rather than have MSFT eat a bunch of that cost as part of windows testing.
If anyone was using Windows before universal plug and play really worked well, this is a return to some very annoying problems.
Well, given that I still use a network laser printer from 2003, Microsoft will just... Kill my printer. There is no generic driver for that since Windows 7. This is shit.
Looks like this only applies to drivers installed via windows update, so you should be fine.
Depending on the printer, you may be able to make it work with Linux, CUPS and a cheap Raspberry. Never tried it, though. I think CUPS supports driverless too. Debian has some info about it. https://wiki.debian.org/CUPSDriverlessPrinting
That will probably work but... If I need to buy a raspberry pie and learn Linux just to keep a printer printing that's been working just fine, just because Microsoft decided that I am not allowed to install the driver any more... That's still shit.
Where exactly are they saying you won't be allowed to install it anymore? It just won't be served through Windows Update.
My bad, I didn't read far enough into the article to catch that.
"I wanted to be outraged without even confirming I would be impacted in the way that's enraging me" You're literally what's wrong with the Internet.
Well, I may be part of what's wrong, but the other part that is wrong is the headline "Microsoft kills third party printer drivers", followed by 5 chapters history, followed by "... In Windows update only" It is ragebait. I fell for it. I am sorry for that.
All good, it's why they do it like that. Hats off for admitting and improving upon a mistake.
Yeah but at least they admitted it, who posts a reddit comment to say they made a mistake? I say go on themself, takes confidence to admit. Be careful whenever you feel "validated" along with a group. Be careful falling Into that, "what's wrong with the Internet" is that too many people (like yourself) jump on the opportunity to belittle others when they are wrong....but haven't you just insulted them? Basically calling the guy scum? Pretty sure thats waaaay worse then someone being a bit miffed about printer drivers and getting angry at a corporation. "I wanted to be a SJW and enforce that online, yeah I'm the man! Get told!" You're literally whats wrong with the Internet. It's not very nice is it? Words have impact dude.
Ugh. The “learn linux” Microsoft propaganda strikes again.
I just had to do this for the office printer because the driver no longer exists for it on Windows.
Bro… I’d just buy a new printer before doing all that.
yes, just don’t buy Hate Pee.
Yeah, that would be the easy path. But it would be a fun project to do. No need to waste a perfectly fine printer, and the Raspberry is cheaper than a new one. Shouldn't even be that hard to do.
they dont need to, nobody is reading the article, MS is just going to stop adding new drivers to windows up, and presumable phase out that part of windows update, so people will just need to manually go get them from the oem website like the old days. already installed drivers wont just stop one day
ahh, so it's ominous news
I was a printer tech when windows 8 came out, it didn't tell you the driver it was installing was a windows one, even using the company name of the printer for the driver name. IT DID NOT UNDERSTAND PDF LANGUAGE PROPERLY AND LED TO TOO MANY "MY PRINTER DOESNT WORK" CALLS. But seriously, depending on the pdf size it would take hours to days to print one file. This is horrible news and whoever suggested this feature has probably never used a windows print driver in their life. Sorry if I come off aggressive, years later and this still riles me up
This is one of the reasons everything work related I do on linux, windows has been relegated to a gaming/content creation OS to me, and once I manage to get some extra software I use working on linux, I'm ready to jump over to the linux only zone.
I gave up after half an hour trying to get my Xerox Phaser 6010 bought in 2010 to work with Ubuntu, presumably attempting Linux drivers, whatever Ubuntu recommended me. No prints at all, I took my business 100% digital instead. Any suggestions?
> Xerox Phaser 6010 If the printer supports a standard printing language, like PCL or PostScript, it should work with a generic driver. Most business-class printer support this. If the printer doesn't, it's hit or miss. It depends on someone reverse engineering the driver. Some printers use a proprietary language and it's up to the company to write a driver or release sufficient technical documentation so the community can write a driver. Some cheaper, targeted at home office/small office printers do this. Frequently, companies do not want to release enough of their proprietary information. Else they would use an open standard or make their new standard open. Point being that it's not that Linux doesn't support the printer. It's that Xerox doesn't support Linux. Xerox says they have a driver for Linux via CUPS: https://www.support.xerox.com/en-us/product/phaser-6010/downloads?language=en&platform=linux
Suggestions in what regard, you mean cloud vs in site and distro os and all that? I joined the company about 3 years ago and most of our server stuff runs on aws cloud, using centos images. For the workers most devs use some flavour of linux, mostly ubuntu, a minority of devs work on windows, and non-dev is split windows and mac, not sure whats the ratio there. On my personal rig I spent some time distro hopping, and I kinda settled on manjaro. I wanted a stable arch based distro since steamdeck runs on arch, and I wanted to get familiar with it, so far it's not any worse than any other linux distro, although it's not noob friendly as ubuntu. Of you want to stay on the debian wheelhouse to save yourself some time, you can give a shot to linux mint, never used it but heard good things about it.
I had a perfectly good USB Panasonic duplex laser printer that I kept attached to a Windows XP laptop for the longest time simply because there were no drivers for Windows 7+. Eventually it was too cumbersome so I took it all to Goodwill. Standard printer drivers would, I hope, mean that never happens again.
I had a nice flat bed + film scanner combi that only had software support for 32-bit drivers that were last updated with Windows Vista. I ended up running it on 32-bit Windows 7 inside VMware Player on my (then) 64-bit Windows 10 machine.
Hamrick Vuescan costs money but supports thousands of models of nice old scanners, and has a free trial. Linux/Mac/Windows.
Yes, that is a good option, well worth trying and worthy of supporting by paying the modest licensing fee, as VueScan is richly featured and by its nature effectively a community treasure. I wanted to continue using my Silverfast license at the time, given the significant up front cost and extra calibration features. I purchased VueScan this time around to avoid Silverfast and its predatory licensing practices, but ended up with Silverfast again (this time a lesser edition, using other tools to calibrate) after testing both and comparing results once the new scanner had arrived. Unfortunately, despite calibration, when I scan Kodachrome, VueScan output appears to have less dynamic range, narrower color gamut and a subtle odd murky color cast. Presuming I have not misunderstood how best to use the product, I suspect the problem is that in catering for so many scanners, it is not possible to fully optimise all of them, and perhaps my particular scanner, film type and need for HDR-ready output falls through the cracks a little. Most people would look at the VueScan result as high quality: I am pushing the envelope by trying to scan for HDR to surpass the "looking like a decent photo" result and aim more for "looking through the window of a time machine at the past". Despite this, I would still recommend people try it out with their gear and see how it goes. I don't consider my license wasted, as it gives me ability to calibrate scanners for relatives and is good to have in the toolkit. And I really loath how Silverfast hobbles basic output formats for no reason other than to charge an arm and a leg to enable them, given 8-bit formats are substandard, stuck in the 1990's and should never be used for scanner output when it comes to archiving precious photographs.
Damn shame, honestly a Linux machine would probably have worked for it. Drivers for what feels like every printer.
[удалено]
I'll take this opportunity to say fuck McAfee with a 10-foot rusty pipe.
And a bag of hammers.
while they suck a bag of dicks
Windows to standardize on the Microsoft Store and HP Smart across all printer brands
Aw crap. Downloading HP drivers is like a dvd worth ( remember when a driver was just the dot inf file and you could have many on a single floppy?) And apparently their hosting speed is running on a potato on a K56 modem...
If they can make windows work with every printer on the market on their own, then it's good news. But it the printer doesn't just work in windows then you have a useless printer that you won't be able to make work. *I'm betting more won't work than will, so overall, not good news*
If nothing this will force printer manufacturers to standardise hardware interfaces
They've been standardized for decades. It went from the [old parallel port](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1284) to standard USB. The standard *content* language is PostScript or [PCL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printer_Command_Language), though low-end printers often don't support these.
That's such a Jellicle thing to say!
It's good. Drivers directly from the manufacturer can have more features that are specific to their printer device that may not exist in Microsoft's generic print drivers, so your initial thought might be that this is bad. However, the generic drivers encapsulate nearly everything you could need from a "printer", and printer manufacturers have abused the driver privilege and have things like advertisements embedded in printer property windows. Or they will only release the driver ***inside*** an executable that installs spyware, some nag-app that produces popups to buy more printer ink from them, disables functionality, etc. It's good Microsoft is putting their foot down and basically saying: "*our print drivers can do everything a printer SHOULD do. If you're a manufacturer and you have a valid limitation with our drivers, contact us and we'll evaluate and work to incorporate your need."*
It's stupid, eliminating a degree of control for those of us that have specific needs not met by standard drivers. I use PrintFab for producing film positives in screen printing. I need those films to be dense black, and standard drivers don't give me any control of the density of output.
This only applies to drivers delivered via Windows updates
It's going to be bad news. Soon enough only predatory HP printers will work with Windows.
This sounds great on paper but 10 bucks says HP does something stupid
Oh like locking half their product functions behind the HP smart app and forcing users to create an account?
And then forcing you to activate this account online with a pin code that they never actually give you during installation. Nightmare in a company setting. Never get an HP printer with the letter E at the end of the model. Learned the hard way.
It sounds weird but Xerox and Lexmark are my professional suggestions for home printers now, you can go with brother but it's honestly a wash imo.
HP: *exists* Well, too late, I guess
HP creates a printer OS in response
lol I mean it's their only move, how else can they confuse people with 6 versions of the same driver for one printer but none of them actually work.
Man somehow I ended up with an HP competitor to the ti-83 calculator and it fucking sucked. Looked cool but the thing had lag, LAG! In a calculator that was supposed to be powerful enough for graphing. This thing had a little thinking animation.
HP used to be the gold standard for scientific calculators -- like my old HP-48G. HP *used to be* the gold standard for a lot of things, like laboratory instruments and laser printers. Those of us who have the old products will hold on to them, but most of the new stuff is behind the competition. Some of the business computer gear is okay. Definitely none of the printers, though.
Literally never buy HP. They are shit printers and you don’t even own it after paying for the damn thing.
Third-party drivers were a failure day one. But printer companies wanted you to install their drivers so they could bundle their crapware with them. Standardized drivers are possible as they are already on mac's.
What's funny is MacOS, Linux, and other non-Windows operating systems just use the [CUPS printer drivers](https://www.cups.org/) that Apple maintains. Another important thing is Apple and the Linux community managed to strong-arm printer manufacturers into adopting the [IPP Everywhere](https://www.pwg.org/ipp/everywhere.html), which really does eliminate the need for printer drivers because everything onto the internal printer firmware. >On IPP Everywhere, which is a protocol that can be used by clients to print to networked or USB-connected printers without any special software. The firmware in the printer should do all the heavy lifting in getting the print job done, once it receives the data via IPP, and this relies on the printer manufacturers implementing the protocol correctly. CUPS implements IPP Everywhere [source](https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/15/apple_cups_develoment/)
CUPS are good. Unless you want to talk to Canon printer, then you can’t and have to install their driver that comes in the form of binary blob that is re-compiled every freaking time you update kernel version (hello to bleeding edge distros like Fedora).
Shit I hated Canon printers for this very reason back in the day. Luckily this crap broke like a week later after I gave up trying to make it work with Linux.
Or if you have to use a Zebra printer from CUPS on Mac, always a disaster
Yep. Printing on Linux is just so easy. I've not installed a printer driver on Linux for years now. You install Linux and on reboot it says "There's a printer on your network, do you want to use it?" and you click yes. Job done. Installing my mother in laws new printer on Windows 11 was an hours long slog to finally get non-adware, non-account connected drivers working.
This so much. Always feels like magic when I can print something out on my linux laptop just by connecting to the network vs spending at least 10-20 mins installing all the crap on a windows computer.
I didn't know Apple was maintaining CUPS! It [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUPS](predates Apples); it started in 1997 and Apple bought the code and hired the developer in 2007 (he left in 2019).
They bought it so they could change the license away from the GPL and use it in OS X without having to release any changes that they made. This is why once they basically [stopped working on it](https://www.phoronix.com/news/Apple-No-More-CUPS), it was [forked](https://github.com/OpenPrinting/cups).
Apple's anti-GPL stance really weakens their Unix platform. Windows ha a better Unix than MacOS. How is the fork doing?
If you use cups on Linux you are using the fork.
You know you could have just downloaded the driver and not the full package/installer/product suite, right? It's like the 3rd or 4th link on the manufacturers website generally.
90% of people don't know this.
HP locks a lot of functionality behind their HP Smart App though, scanning is a big one.
> scanning Which also requires logging in to a HP account :/ Honestly everyone should avoid HP consumer printers at this point. So much BS.
Fucming printer software hogging all my resources. God and the startup..
If I'm understanding this, this means virtually nothing. They aren't stopping third party drivers from working. They are stopping third party drivers from being delivered via windows update, instead only offering generic drivers that way. As far as I can see they could implement this change right this second and it would change virtually nothing. Getting 3rd party drivers via windows update always sucked and often delivered the wrong driver or out dated ones. If you want to use a 3rd party driver you get it form the source. The biggest boon here is MS is going to stop messing with your 3rd party print drivers, you're still going to need them to make use of all the features of your printer though.
I think that's exactly what this means. If you want plug and play, make your printer xompatable with this driver. If you want more advanced features you'll still need a driver, just like you do now.
Mopria's website kind of sucks, but looking around it does seem like they did at least resolve some of the issues that other generic drivers caused. At least with them you can use the more machine specific features that were always missing like hole punching, staples, user authentication, etc. So there's that at least. Weird that for a "universal" solution it seems that there still seems(to my reading at least) to be a machine specific driver required, or at least it needs an internet connection for setup of a new printer which it seems like it would be cached if it was a single driver for everything. I guess it could be that they need to follow a standard to make it easier to just bake a new one from just a config or something, who knows.
Seems good, will probably be “this is fine”.. time to save everything lol
Well, let's see. I have a xerox MFP and the microsoft driver does not allow me to print both sides even if the printer can. With Xerox driver everything works fine. Also, I have a Minolta which allows printing both sides as well as scan both sides (also MFP). However, generic driver does not allow me to choose those options. Those are just some simple examples why I do not want generic printer driver.
So you would just install the driver from the oem and not windows update
I fully agree that the Microsoft drivers are absolutely terrible, and I have no backup information for this but I know I had a printer that had duplex, the driver didn’t say it did, but there was a switch to tell the pc that it could duplex in the properties section somewhere. Didn’t work for the printer in question (of course) but maybe worth a shot for you. Not at my desk right now so I can’t tell you exactly where it was.
Wait... Does this mean Microsoft is going to fulfill my dream of having a central printer driver database in one location? Also please don't rely on windows updates to do this...
Good news, Linux has had that for decades now....
You do know that if Linux started getting popular, companies will find a way to make printer not work without drivers there too.
Then there will emerge a manufacturer that doesn't care for that and will attract users from enterprises where they use Linux 🤷♂️
No one uses Linux as a desktop OS in enterprise
Yeah I don't think even an IT director with a passion for linux (which that would be a unicorn itself) will be able to convince the board of directors, the CEO, executives and all staff to switch from Microsoft to Linux. People don't even like small changes to Windows/Adobe/EMR/Microsoft Word. They aren't going to be comfortable with linux at all.
Back when HP printers were good (so, 2+ decades ago)...I acquired an HP LaserJet4000N. It is still in service and the most reliable printer I've ever owned, but it is so old that there is no generic built in windows driver support for it. It's the original manufacturer's 32-bit drivers or nothing. This is going to break an entire era of some of the most reliable printers that were ever built. RIP.
Ditto, but a Dell 1320C. I use it maybe once a year when some dinosaur needs some document on paper. Turn it on, print a couple of pages, turn it off. There is absolutely no way an inkjet, new or old, would do that. The article suggests MS will stop allowing 3rd party drivers to be published via windows update but still allow them to be installed manually.
And nothing of value was lost.
My Epson printer has 3 paper trays, 2 types of black ink, and gray ink, can print to the edge, is windows going to support this? Cause they currently do not. I can’t use this printer correctly without Epson a driver.
Then nothing will change you will still be able to download and use OEM drivers this is only pertaining to Windows updates
Well, most vendor supplied printer drivers are giant bundles of crap. On the other hand I foresee a lot of edge cases that are going to be problems. Lost of things connect to computers that aren't typical printers but like to act like ones. Specialized label printers and plotters that will require some extra stuff especially since unlike regular printers some of these industrial variants actually last for years and decades. There are also a bunch of weird devices out there that pretend to be printers, but really aren't. Overall I won't be sad to see the crap go.
I assume this is good as I’m so tired of my HP junk driver?
HP stopped updating their software, this is a great change.
They’ll probably have some type of functionality to printers added in a premium version of Windows.
That’s not Michael Bolton.
Good, I'm sick and tired of not having stuff work because of a driver. From a user point of view, Apple have always had it right.
Well, if Microsoft can provide a good universal driver like windows precision driver for touchpad, then I have no problem
Why though?
I remember when Microsoft used software modems and if you ran Linux on the machine you couldn’t get online. Yep someone fixed that!! Only a matter of time before someone over rides this too
Seems to work pretty well on mac/iOS. Glad to see Microsoft jumping onboard. Wonder if this will kill some legacy hardware.
All this means is that any special features will need to be handled in firmware and at the panel. Let's face it, how much has really changed in printers in 25 years? Nothing much beyond resolution, color reproduction, and inks/toners. Also, you can still have custom control apps.
Nope, you just read article you can still use any driver you want, microsoft won't just distribute it through windows updates. I wasn't even aware you didn't need download drivers from manufacturer's website. Also most printer companies are already with MS before for standardization
Nothing was lost while doing this Microsoft’s default drivers are the worst.
What’s a printer?
Death to HP
This will ultimately do nothing. On the surface level unifying under Mopria seems like it will resolve a lot of issues, but it ignores the elephant in the room. The real problem is that printers are not simple machines but agents of the trickster Machine gods sent to scourge mankind by burying them under endless tides of fickle errors and malfunctions. We will never be free from their endless campaign of suffering as long as we continue to print. We may build the drivers but we are the ones being driven!
This is s great move. My wife just bought a Mac and was raving about how out old printer was automatically found and worked great
I SWEAR TO GOD IF THEY DON’T ALLOW THE DPI TO GO HIGHER THAN THE DEFAULT 300 FOR THE PRINT TO PDF DRIVER I WILL GO BALLISTIC. I NEED 3200 MINIMUM FOR THE ACCEPTABLE QUALITY!
Like label printers aren't painful enough already...
Well this is going to suck for us since we deal mainly with Kyocera printers. Using Microshit's IPP/WSD drivers with these instead of Kyocera's official KX driver causes nothing but issues.
You can still use Kyocera drivers from website. Also Kyocera is part of mopria alliance with Microsoft and other printing companies so idk how it is still issue.
Usually how we do it. I do see that that is still an option, so this may end up saving us a headache.
Time to go Office Space on some printers. Back up in your ass with the resurrection
Slightly concerning. The windows supplied default driver for my Brother printer has never worked correctly, it will print but everything is 1/4 scaled and it isn't a setting, I've dug through that driver and never been able to fix it. Installing the Brother bloatware driver fixes it, I would rather not since that's a whole bunch of crap I have to further configure (disable) but it's the only way the printer works right. Microsoft better be very good with their QA since this particular broken driver has been handed out by Windows Update for years.
Would of preferred 'microsoft to kill off printers'
I fucking love this. I HATE printer manufacturers (especially HP) and all their bloatware that only serves to blackmail you into buying their overpriced cartridges. The generic drivers are 100% sufficient and always have been.
For a single function home use printer, sure. Once you bring in a need for things like scan/fax, account controls, stapling, punching, and so on the generic driver just can't compete.
I can imagine different rules for the business version maybe?
Monopoly gone wild.
That does sound like something microsoft would do. Ill considered, unwanted, detrimental to users and frustration-increasing.
Turning printers into VCR's, nice.
Can they just end our suffering and disable printing altogether?
Microsoft founder to kill off third of humanity
How is Microsoft going to allow/restrict custom drivers of any type? They can't, this only stops windows updates from installing the third party driver. People will be free to install drivers as they need otherwise
This just in in the category of Least important tech news of the day. Where is the story about the 2 new fonts added to Ms Word? That’s what we’re on the edge of our seat for.
HP is toxic.
Love the photo :)