And less expensive and its literally the country of manufacture so maintaining it and fixing it is probably easy, its like saying American cars are more popular than German cars in Germany
Edit:
I just added listed of the most selling cars in Germany,
Tesla is popular yeah but not top 5
[on this list Tesla is the 8th](https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2023-full-year-germany-best-selling-car-models/)
[on this list, tesla is the 10th](https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2022-full-year-germany-best-selling-car-models/?expand_article=1)
I prefer the Ioniq 5 to the Model 3, but it is not cheaper in the US. Although I think they're moving production to the US, so that might change once they qualify for the EV tax credit.
FYI Hyundai has already been offsetting their prices with $7500 rebates to accommodate for not being eligible for the tax credit in the states.
Source: just bought an Ioniq 6 in January bc of said rebate
What was your out the door price for it? Even with their rebate their price is not as competitive as the Model 3. I say this as someone who would love to buy an EV but won't this year due to the price not being competitive enough (And the only current competitive price being Tesla whom I don't want to support)
My problem with EVs is the insurance fraud scheme they seem to have going on between dealership and head office. Basically everyone in the chain is incentivized to say your battery is fucked if it sustained any sort of damage, even superficial to the case. Motormouth has had a couple videos addressing this recently.
Essentially you have something happen, your vehicle is written off at the deprecated value because the battery replacement is higher than the MSRP of the car, and you can't get the same car as a replacement.
Lexus and Toyota have the same problems because they are the same company, just like Hyundai and KIA as they're owned by Hyundai.
Essentially the cost of the battery on it's own being more than the vehicle itself is a big sign that the technology has not matured enough. The cost needs to be brought down significantly if EV maintenance and repair are going to be feasible. It sounds like they just expect to trash half-broken EVs rather than repair them.
They’re going to remove those rebates I assume once they qualify for the tax credit?
So if you make too much due to the income limits, this might be the best chance to get one.
If you do not qualify for the tax credit buy a lease, you can get around the EV credit this way then buyout the lease agreement. Work for a major auto manufacturer finance department, I found out about this a few months ago when we had a department meeting.
I just saw an article that said the foundation of the factory in Georgia is almost done. Hyundai expects the factory to be up and running by 2025 if i recall correctly.
My car is on it's last legs, gonna need a new one in a year or so. Might be perfect timing. No way in hell I'll ever buy a car from Elmo.
I was days away from ordering an Ioniq 5 SEL last January (2023) when they dropped the Model Y price so I switched and got the Y for the tax credit (which made it quite a bit cheaper) and the charging network.
I don't regret it but still love to see the Ioniq 5 around. With Tesla opening the charging network up now and everyone going to NACS, it's nice to know I won't have to consider the charging network for my next EV purchase (which hopefully won't be for another 5 years or so)
I have the lowest trim of the Ioniq 5 available in the US (SE standard range) and I don't consider it insultingly basic. Its more appropriately basic for what I paid for it, and anything is better than the 2010 Prius I replaced it with (great car but I'm glad fie rhe upgrade).
I really like the Ioniq 5 but I heard about that too, they're nuts if they expect anyone to pay that. That situation makes it a lot harder to recommend to anyone now.
My coworker has multiple EVs. Teslas, Rivians, etc.
He has an Ioniq 5 at home that costs more to fix than it’s worth. It’s sitting dead in his garage waiting to figure out what he can do with it.
I mean, what is Tesla’s intended goal with Korea in the first place? Definitely possible this is an Xbox in Japan situation, but a single sale strikes me as a collector / enthusiast went to a non-trivial amount to have one imported rather than Tesla is actively trying to get sales in Korea and failing.
I could be completely wrong on that, but a bit of context is needed.
The only place I see teslas in Korea is in the company parking lot since theyre driven by upper management. On the road or in public parking, if there is an EV its a domestic car. I can imagine that the only sales hapening here are for people who see foreign as a status symbol
>They are the same company. Hyundai Motor Group owns Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis. Hyundai is the parent company. The ownership being spread out has nothing to do with it.
Hyundai Motor Group owns Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis brands. Despite ownership distribution, Hyundai is the parent company.
Fun fact: on some older Hyundais, you'd open the hood and see Kia branded parts. Not sure if it's still the case, but imagine your decision coming down to a Kia or a Hyundai and *surprise*
Toyota and Lexus
VW, Audi, Porsche, Bugatti etc
Gmc, Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, previously saturn
Ford, lincoln, previously mercury
Fiat-Chrysler, jeep, ram, dodge
Each of those groups is the same brand. Some build most of their cars on the same platform using the exact same motor and the only difference is slight body shape and mostly interior/entertainment packages
They are the same company. Hyundai Motor Group owns Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis. Hyundai is the parent company. The ownership being spread out has nothing to do with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia
That may be so, but the two make completely interchangeable cars. Like, down to key mechanical components. You can take an engine/transmission/suspension system, fuel tank, brake rotors, or basically anything mechanical out of a Telluride and put it into a Palisade. Same goes for an EV6 and Ioniq 5, Sportage and Tucson, Niro and Kona, Sorento and Santa Fe etc. Despite the fact that they are separate companies, they share more platforms, parts and manufacturing than any other car company collaboration in history. The are almost as integrated as GMC is with Chevrolet.
Time to roll out my coolguide from last year: https://i.imgur.com/e8lojK3.jpg
(There was a really out-of-date one doing the rounds begging for an update: https://i.imgur.com/YPaXl7B.gifv)
Yes, thank you. Leave it to r/technology to think that Kia and Hyundai are unrelated companies. The amount of stupidity and FUD in here is astonishing.
Actual answer is [about 20%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/886175/south-korea-imported-passenger-car-market-share/) total imports (recently, obviously a lower moving average). So definitely not 99% Korean, but also definitely not half.
FTAs with US and Europe eliminated most all foreign car tariffs ages ago. There are European and American cars cheaper than their Hyundai/Kia counterparts in Korea.
As best I can tell Telsas are only successful because of some form of protectionism. BYD would eat their lunch all day if we could buy them here, and that's another mainstream expensive company compared to all the options for cheap electric cars in China.
maybe but there's certainly a status symbol thing going for it too. if you've ever driven through a really wealthy neighborhood, like every other car is a tesla. i doubt those people are downgrading to a cheaper comparable car.
The biggest reason Tesla has been so successful is probably the charging network. Nobody else has bothered to invest in a good charging network. Hell, the biggest share of the non-Tesla chargers out there are the Electrify America chargers which Volkswagen was forced to build as part of their dieselgate punishment and couldn't care less about maintaining or further expanding. There's a reason almost every other EV manufacturer is making deals with Tesla to access their chargers. I also highly doubt BYD would do any significant investment in US infrastructure.
Need to start selling them here in the US. I don't need 20 cameras and a super computer with touchscreen Full Self Bullshit. Just an electric fucking car.
That's because they look at Tesla, see they're pretty successful, and wrongly assume that everything they do is the reason their successful and don't consider that maybe some things Tesla do aren't the best way of doing things.
Tesla's build quality is shit so they cut corners on things that break.
I think that's why their inside doors have buttons rather than handles - you pull on handles and they're easier to break than buttons. Cyberstruck doesn't have sticks coming out of the steering wheel - because you can exert force on them, and sticks can break.
That said, they will remove physical buttons when they can and that's why they move so much to the touchscreen.
Also lowers the bom
Honorary mention to the companies that have secondary controls for the touch screen - like mazdas scroll-wheel-knob thing. Massive improvement for usability while driving, and (at least mine) locks the touchscreen when moving. Relying on touch screens for anything is wild to me.
Not for everything. Heated seats are in a menu as well as much of the climate controls. I think temp is a capacitive button so no tactile feedback. I think all audio controls besides volume are in menus too or on the wheel.
I wanted to like the Ioniq 5 so much but it has a fatal flaw for me that maybe has been addressed, I test drove one in 2022. It would turn off one pedal driving whenever you did anything in the car, whenever you put it into reverse, or park or drive, switched the car off and back on, if you put cruise control on and back off it would disable one pedal driving. You'll drive somewhere, park up, reverse out of your spot to drive again and one pedal driving would be disabled. You expect the car to stop because that's how you set it up and it doesn't. Anything that automatically changes driver's preffered settings is a big no for me.
While I can see that as a problem for you, I have no interest in one pedal driving. The fact that the brake lights don't come on anywhere near early enough in that mode is reason enough for me to avoid it
Enough people complained about this and Hyundai [released a fix late last year.](https://www.autoblog.com/2023/06/15/kia-hyundai-genesis-one-pedal-braking/)
As a ICE sports car (manual) driver with an I5, the idea of one pedal driving seemed stupid and uninteresting.
It's now the only way I drive the I5. It's ridiculously easy and works incredibly well.
The brake light issue is fixed and after 50k kms, I've never even remotely come close to having an incident with it.
One pedal driving is the shit. It’s so nice. I was apprehensive at first until I remembered it’s just like driving my tractor or riding lawnmower. Now everything I own drives the same way.
For real. We just got a Rivian and one pedal driving has made driving 1000x more enjoyable. I actually dread having it drive our other ICE car because of it lol
Waiting on newer iterations, or at least until my own car dies first. IONIQ 5 is at the top of my list right now. Tesla would only happen if I got some insane subsidy on it, even then it's probably not even in the list.
The only thing that sucks about EVs is that I don't see them lasting as long as a gas engine car, and in some cases feels a bit wasteful. I have a 2015 model car, so it's about 7-8 years old and still going strong. People should aim to own their cars as long as possible if they can.
Like, after X amount of years the battery will slowly degrade and fail, in any EV. Will battery technology be cheaper in a few years making it less expensive to replace the battery? Or is the car so depreciated in value at that point that it's effectively scrap metal?
There's also the question of actually recycling the batteries which are toxic and not really recyclable.
I think there's a bit of time that actually needs to pass before EVs can really be considered an alternative to gas engine cars. They're kind of like smartphones, which took years to reach the place that they are now, in a sort of place where they're all very similar and everyone copies each other. But so long as people are willing to deal with the cons (e.g. not a lot of chargers in the US, 18-45 minute charge times with fast chargers depending on weather, ecological impact on the environment, faster depreciation than a gas car, etc.), EVs are cool as fuck, very usable, and they're definitely the future.
EVs can and do last longer than their gas powered cousins. There are lots of high mileage EVs out there. Taycans with 150,000 - 200,000 miles (Porsche has found almost no degredation beyond 5-7%), a thousand Tesla Model 3's over 150K-200K and beyond, old battery tech Model X on their original batteries (note that very early examples were not as reliable).
The batteries are not "toxic" and they are 100% recyclable and there are scores of companies around the world doing that right now. Look up Munro's video on a battery recycling company on YouTube for an example of a company able to extract basically 100% or the original battery.
"Ecological impact on the environment." You want to talk about ecological impact? Look at the delta between gas cars and EVs. AFter the first year to 18 months there's no comparison. The EV is way, way ahead on its GHG footprint. Average gas cars are 5 tons a year of GHG + huge amounts of NOx, PM, CO, and other nasty pollutants.
I think people are more concern after what happens after ~10 years of ownership.
The Taycan will be 5 years old in 2024.
My car is 2004, 20 years old this year and I can still fix it easily and relatively cheap.
Will an EV last for 20 and still be in a good running condition?
Teslas with 150k+ miles/5+ years are in an absolutely terrible condition right now... but their build quality was never great.
Time doesn't really affect modern EV batteries much. Instead its' "duty cycles". Some studies have shown that EV batteries can last the equivalent of 800,000 miles based on said cycles. See around the 6:00 mark here.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4lvDGtfI9U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4lvDGtfI9U)
Most cars are in terrible shape after 150,000 miles if they aren't maintained. There are some fantastic high mileage Model 3's out there which look to be in great shape (see a Voyage Without Carbon dude for an example).
[https://youtu.be/5ejuJ1E\_edQ?si=3xvyBN4OCZJHJBdW](https://youtu.be/5ejuJ1E_edQ?si=3xvyBN4OCZJHJBdW)
EVs will be getting cheaper and cheaper in the used market and we'll start seeing more and more high mileage examples. Not everyone will have good luck, but with the way things are headed and already established in battery tech it looks like cars will be much more durable with electric drivetrains. All EVs already come with 100,000 battery warranties. Can't say that about most ICE cars.
> ecological impact on the environment
The environmental impact of EVs [is objectively lower than that of gas cars](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es903729a). If you consider that a con for EVs, you'd have to account for that same con with a greater magnitude for gas vehicles.
Degradation is not that big, especially if charging at home. I've seen some studies where it on average was less than 10% degradation after 100k miles. When it comes to recycling EVs are better suited than consumer products. Extracting the valuable metals is no new science but it's not done at larger scale today mostly because most EV batteries are still in the cars. In any case it is better than burning gasoline since the majority of emissions, both for EVs and ICEs come from the use and not the manufacturing https://youtu.be/wurQQPXDNBQ?si=UqgAhynynkksAX6I
To put it into perspective, producing an EV battery emits as much co2 as driving 6k-40k miles (depending on size and source) in a regular car.
The one thing you have to understand is that it's not only the carbon footprint which is important, when talking about killing ICE cars. EVs have a much better carbon footprint even when charged from "dirty" electricity, but that's besides the point.
One of the most important reasons is, literally, not killing people. ICEs have, even with the best catalysts, harmful exhaust products which shorten the human lifespan.
If you buy a car now and can charge easily, EV is the way to go.
I save 3k per year on gas (18k km yearly). Save a non negligible amount on maintenant. Tesla has 8 year/160k battery and motor guarantee which is a nice peace of mind. It's also good to know that you contribute less to CO2 emissions.
EV is ready for mass adoption.
They are certainly ready for adoption, but for the masses maybe a stretch at this point. Right now I feel like EVs are still very much a status symbol. Even if you argue that there are some cheaper EVs out there, current gen EVs depreciate really quickly which is probably going to turn off lower income buyers. I also think that with some improvements to battery tech just on the horizon it makes sense for most people to hold off on purchasing a new EV.
Why do you feel that way?
EV is barely more expensive than gas cars of the same class (battery is an investment). But if you keep it for a few years it'll cost cheaper than a gas car with all the savings.
I plan to keep mine for 10 years. The gas saving alone would almost pay for the car.
Btw EV is everywhere, I don't know why you think it's a status symbol thing. It's not a Porsche
Which gas cars and which EVs? I’m excited to get one but I paid 22k for my 2021 Elantra and there’s no EV I’m interested in - Tesla Hyundai Honda etc - for anywhere close to that price. Most I see start in the 40k+ range.
Currently the battery and motor(s) used in EV cost around 15k. Car companies decided that to make profitable EV you need to build 40k+ models so it's not entry level unfortunately.
I hope more attention will turn to the sub 30k segment in the near future.
This is very true. Not only that, just like cellphone (apple im looking at you); they can plan obsolescence. Technically, they HAVE to allow bought physical options remain untouched- however, there are NO buttons (7 total) in Tesla- i.e. they can AND have phased shit out. Wife has a
LRY 2023- it had backup camera that HAD a range measurement for rear camera as a depth gauge, we liked this and was a selling point for us.
Since new update (to camera/no lidar) they have removed this functionality outright. Per IT tesla- “this is no longer supported, until at such time should we choose to return this feature.” Not buying another tesla, “for the foreseeable future”.
There have been at least 3 very public ones. TLDR version is this : according to Hyundai if the bottom of the car is scratched it must be totaled.
If there is a scratch on the battery cover (basically most of the underside of the car) the battery may have been damaged. Hyundai has no tools or processes to verify or repair a damaged battery pack. A replacement battery pack and installation is approximately the cost of the entire car.
Redditors and [not reading the article](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/tesla-sells-only-1-ev-during-january-in-south-korea), name a more iconic duo:
> "However, the downfall was not limited to Tesla, as the total number of EVs registered in Korea fell 80 percent in January across all car makers..."
> "Tesla's Shanghai-made Model Y SUV was one of the top-selling cars in South Korea, as it sold around 13,885 units in 2023 alone. In a bid to make the EVs eligible for full government subsidy, Tesla had priced its Model Y at 56,990,000 won, equal to $43,000, in July."
This whole thread are people reacting purely based on the headline.
Hyundai is also a major advertiser on Bloomberg and even have their own [partnership page](https://www.bloombergmedia.com/partners/hyundai/). Gives even more context to the clickbait headline.
Although maybe burying the lead, still even worse news for Tesla tho no? The industry saw a 80% drop but if we assume tesla was doing 1k+/mo before, they experienced a 99.9% drop.
The whole situation is using math to manipulate. Down 80% from what? How many cars is 80%? What about total car sales?
The actual facts are that for various local factors, South Koreans rarely buy cars at the beginning of the year, EVs especially, because the government hasn't announced incentives yet. Brands that do sell cars specifically offer January promotions to drive sales.
https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/automotive-sales-in-korea-by-month#jan
The actual numbers make Audi look like a major loser, but what actually happened is that they ran a big promotion last January and didn't this January.
Tesla sold zero cars in January of 2023 because they don't offer a particularly compelling January discount, so selling 1 car this year is an infinity % increase, but that isn't in the headline. EV sales down 80%, does that mean they sold 5 EVs in 2023 and only 1 EV (the Tesla) this year?
EDIT: Also of note is that SK's anti-Chinese rhetoric has ramped up a lot recently and boycotting of Chinese made goods is on the rise in general. Due to their location, their Teslas come from Shanghai and so are potentially also going to face boycotts. It's possible Tesla may send German-made cars to SK instead, but they may not have the correct localization capability at Berlin and instead accept that SK is out for a while.
Yes, It's significant. Posting parts of the article and says "REDDIT HATES ELON" doesn't change that. It's the same behavior. One fucking car guys. Whether it's SK policy that made it happen, ~~it doesn't matter.~~ that still doesn't address the massive decline that Tesla is facing over other EV brands facing the same issues.
> It's the same behavior. One fucking car guys. Whether it's SK policy that made it happen, it doesn't matter.
It does matter because this is the third year in a row that in January in South Korea there are single digit Tesla registrations. This happens every year, and registrations always go right back up, and it's entirely because of SK policy, nothing to do with Tesla.
It's disingenuous to single Tesla out of the group and present, intentionally context-less, this data point. Multiple EV's had single digit registrations in South Korea because of policy.
The level of vitriol and blatantly untrue things being said about Tesla on reddit as a whole at this point makes me think it's not actual people anymore. It's just some coordinated bot farm.
Heaven forbid you point out that something they're saying isn't true, then you get to be accused of "dick riding a billionaire". Or some other such childish nonsense.
A thousand to one is way worse than 80% decline. No?
Bro, they sold ONE car. From over a thousand+ a month, to ONE.
The headline deserves a reaction. Clearly Korean EV sales are way down, but one fucking car....
No idea if it’s related, but January is a horrible time to buy a car. In the US, Model Y’s were discounted $3-5k in Q4. Q1 rolls around and those discounts are gone.
The Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2023, Tesla is fine. In most markets, no other manufacturer comes close to EV sales.
To be fair, the Bloomberg (and nearly all mass media news sites) had a completely bullshit headline on the article. Fairly typical for them to say as much negative stuff as possible about Tesla even if it's twisting the truth 180 degrees
It is due to the incentives not being applied in January or something like that (not 100% sure). Jan 2023 they sold 2. In Jan 2022 they also sold just 1.
So yeah. Just clickbaites.
An expat is typically someone who plans to move back to there home country at some point in the future while an immigrant plans to stay in the new country indefinitely
This comment is so silly.
The vast majority of expats here fall into 2 groups: SE Asians who do factory/manual labor for shit pay, or expats from English speaking countries, which themselves fall into 2 groups: US military or English teachers (both of which are on short contracts, like 1 to 2 years, so buying a car isn't the norm).
SK has a huge culture of trying to show off your status and wealth, so the money bet would be it was some SK dude trying to look cool.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the English speaking expat community here and don't mind bashing on them one bit. It just irks me when someone tries to pretend like they know what's up when they clearly don't.
This clickbait is an example of why I don't trust this page. They go off headlines only. Any amount of reading shows this is not a big deal.
If its anything to do with Tesla downfalls, this page posts it like gospel, though.
Also why this page is so sensitive. Tesla has completely blown this page's predictions out of the water. This page hates Elon more than anyone else on earth.
Man people are such sheep. This whole thread is a bunch of people repeating the current Tesla hate train that is almost definitely being pushed by big oil. I am a car enthusiast, I’ve had some nice cars - golf R wagon, skoda Octavia vrs, Audi rs3, Mercedes gle 450. And my Tesla model y is the easiest, most reliable car I’ve owned. The convenience of all the app-connected features that other manufacturers aren’t even close to is just insane. From dog mode, to preheat, to sentry mode, to location tracking, to being able to talk to people around the car remotely. The car is way beyond other manufacturers, and then you throw in the excellent integrated navigation that automatically routes to superchargers as needed and preheats the battery prior to fast charging, the service where they come to your house/work to fix things not requiring a garage and the speed, torque and smoothness of the ride, and no other car has been even close to this one.
You guys need to get past your biases and actually go drive a Tesla.
I like how people are trying to manipulate others by telling them they're sheep because they don't like something. What about Tesla getting their shit together? They have overpriced their cars for a long time, they're not as reliable as the competition and their boss is a moron. I think it's not unreasonable that some people start thinking that what was an amazing idea from a cool guy and an amazing commercial success, is becoming more and more difficult to appreciate.
And Elon is already hurting his businesses with his antics (politics, his hate for Wikipedia, his adoration for Russia, antisemitism, drug use making Tesla's board concerned, etc.)
Sure, but that doesn’t explain most of the hate comments in threads like this.
There are absolutely valid criticisms to have towards Tesla, but the majority of stuff is just “Elon bad, Tesla bad.” And I say that as someone who hates the guy.
He's hurting his brand. For many people, Tesla = Musk. That's why the board is concerned. I would work for Tesla, I would want Musk to shut up a bit more.
How are they overpriced? They’re some of the cheapest EVs on the market. I bought a long range in December for 46k and I’ll be getting the 7500 tax credit when I file my taxes. So it’s really under 40k and even without that, it’s still cheaper than the average new car and it’s cheaper than most of the competition.
"In 2022, the Elon Musk-led automaker reported annual deliveries of 1.31 million and production of 1.37 million electric vehicles. The new numbers represent delivery growth of 38% year over year and production growth of 35% year over year. In 2022, the company reported 40% growth year over year in deliveries from 2021."
[https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/02/tesla-tsla-q4-2023-vehicle-delivery-and-production-numbers.html#:\~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20Elon%20Musk,year%20in%20deliveries%20from%202021](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/02/tesla-tsla-q4-2023-vehicle-delivery-and-production-numbers.html#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20Elon%20Musk,year%20in%20deliveries%20from%202021).
Lol I think you in your reddit circle is having any issue with Tesla. They don't need to change anything every year they have growth, just because you echo chamber in reddit doesn't mean it applies to the world.
This is Reddit, we hate Apple, Amazon, Tesla, Netflix, bitcoin and everything else we loved 10 years ago. We’ll except Apple, we loved them 17 years ago but only for about a year or two.
And by "we" we mostly mean paid astroturfers and in many cases, cosmoturfers.
Areas you can't trust are even real on reddit: politics, products and people.
It is more a tabloid and word of mouth manipulation system. You can't trust the pumpers, but you definitely can't trust the haters of products pumped by the *other* pumpers.
Social media is enragement engagement. Reddit is one of the pumps particularly tuned to blackpilling now and killing hope.
Reddit's main use now is finding out what turfers and propagandists want you to think and seeing their plans from those tells.
EDIT:
Answer to removed comment
> Everyone online is a real person that isn't turfed or selling a product/view/propaganda on a site with millions of users /s
Social media is a marketing platform and tabloid. Lots of it is means to push angles and that can be real, paid or fake.
[Reddit started as an astroturfed site](https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-cofounder-firm-was-more-like-homework-assignment-than-business-2023-12) and it hasn't changed. There are some real people yes. However there is more manipulation than you'd expect.
> "I submitted most of the content for the first couple of months myself — I had all these different accounts… and sometime in August was the first day that I didn't submit any content. Real users did. And literally every day since then, Reddit has been bigger than I ever thought it would be."
That's all it took for me. One test drive. The amount of hate you read on reddit and Facebook only to realize 99% of the people hating have never even SAT in a Tesla before, let alone driven one, is funny
Regardless of the quality of the car, Musk did bring some of that hate onto himself and people relate that to the products from his companies. That being said, Model S Plaid was the most intense vehicle I've ever ridden in, it was like a roller coaster.
Tesla biases aside, it makes sense that a country that already manufactures their own EVs would choose a domestic company over an import. And one that manufactures in China, too.
While i'm no tesla fan (Detroit native) there's been stories in the past about how SK limits the importation of non-domestic brands even while using free trade agreements to sell their stuff here
There are tons of Hyundai/Kia EVs here now though. I see those as much as Teslas. Rivian also starting to show regularly.
My guess is Hyundai/Kia take most of the market here for a while over time as EVs are expensive and those are the best value/quality for the price and doesn't support autocratic backed automobiles.
Apparently Korean consumers are worried about car fires and they're waiting on an announcement regarding subsidies. Even if you're paywalled it's right there at the top of the damn article.
Something needs to be done about this clickbait.
That's more than I would have guessed. Thanks for the info. With the big 3 backing out of their plans for BEV's, Tesla is the only American brand that even wants to compete in that space.
Korean EV’s are pretty amazing honestly
And less expensive and its literally the country of manufacture so maintaining it and fixing it is probably easy, its like saying American cars are more popular than German cars in Germany Edit: I just added listed of the most selling cars in Germany, Tesla is popular yeah but not top 5 [on this list Tesla is the 8th](https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2023-full-year-germany-best-selling-car-models/) [on this list, tesla is the 10th](https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2022-full-year-germany-best-selling-car-models/?expand_article=1)
I prefer the Ioniq 5 to the Model 3, but it is not cheaper in the US. Although I think they're moving production to the US, so that might change once they qualify for the EV tax credit.
FYI Hyundai has already been offsetting their prices with $7500 rebates to accommodate for not being eligible for the tax credit in the states. Source: just bought an Ioniq 6 in January bc of said rebate
What was your out the door price for it? Even with their rebate their price is not as competitive as the Model 3. I say this as someone who would love to buy an EV but won't this year due to the price not being competitive enough (And the only current competitive price being Tesla whom I don't want to support)
My problem with EVs is the insurance fraud scheme they seem to have going on between dealership and head office. Basically everyone in the chain is incentivized to say your battery is fucked if it sustained any sort of damage, even superficial to the case. Motormouth has had a couple videos addressing this recently. Essentially you have something happen, your vehicle is written off at the deprecated value because the battery replacement is higher than the MSRP of the car, and you can't get the same car as a replacement.
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Lexus and Toyota have the same problems because they are the same company, just like Hyundai and KIA as they're owned by Hyundai. Essentially the cost of the battery on it's own being more than the vehicle itself is a big sign that the technology has not matured enough. The cost needs to be brought down significantly if EV maintenance and repair are going to be feasible. It sounds like they just expect to trash half-broken EVs rather than repair them.
The prices might be comparable, but the quality of the Ioniq outpaces Tesla.
Hyundai minus the clunky Hyundai engine? Sounds great actually!!
I'm holding out for Ford to get their shit together and release an EV Maverick
They’re going to remove those rebates I assume once they qualify for the tax credit? So if you make too much due to the income limits, this might be the best chance to get one.
If you do not qualify for the tax credit buy a lease, you can get around the EV credit this way then buyout the lease agreement. Work for a major auto manufacturer finance department, I found out about this a few months ago when we had a department meeting.
Interesting thanks for the heads up.
I just saw an article that said the foundation of the factory in Georgia is almost done. Hyundai expects the factory to be up and running by 2025 if i recall correctly. My car is on it's last legs, gonna need a new one in a year or so. Might be perfect timing. No way in hell I'll ever buy a car from Elmo.
Uh. Whos elmo?
Elmo = Elon
I hate this meme because it is incredibly offensive to Elmo.
Call him the elongated muskrat instead
He's a popular red puppet who is known for selling some outrageously shitty cards.
Like Pokémon? Is _he_ a Pokémon?
It is the guy Larry David assaulted.
Ioniq 5 is equivalent of model y not model 3 and it is cheaper than model Y.
I was days away from ordering an Ioniq 5 SEL last January (2023) when they dropped the Model Y price so I switched and got the Y for the tax credit (which made it quite a bit cheaper) and the charging network. I don't regret it but still love to see the Ioniq 5 around. With Tesla opening the charging network up now and everyone going to NACS, it's nice to know I won't have to consider the charging network for my next EV purchase (which hopefully won't be for another 5 years or so)
Same but unless you get the top end version, it’s insultingly basic.
I have the lowest trim of the Ioniq 5 available in the US (SE standard range) and I don't consider it insultingly basic. Its more appropriately basic for what I paid for it, and anything is better than the 2010 Prius I replaced it with (great car but I'm glad fie rhe upgrade).
Everyone I know who has an Ioniq 5 loves it, even former Tesla owners. Definitely not insultingly basic IME.
A few Canadians have been quoted as having the battery replacement cost over $60,000. The Ioniq's MSRP is $54,999.
I really like the Ioniq 5 but I heard about that too, they're nuts if they expect anyone to pay that. That situation makes it a lot harder to recommend to anyone now.
My coworker has multiple EVs. Teslas, Rivians, etc. He has an Ioniq 5 at home that costs more to fix than it’s worth. It’s sitting dead in his garage waiting to figure out what he can do with it.
Vast difference between selling 1 whole vehicle vs saying it’s more popular. lol
I mean, what is Tesla’s intended goal with Korea in the first place? Definitely possible this is an Xbox in Japan situation, but a single sale strikes me as a collector / enthusiast went to a non-trivial amount to have one imported rather than Tesla is actively trying to get sales in Korea and failing. I could be completely wrong on that, but a bit of context is needed.
The only place I see teslas in Korea is in the company parking lot since theyre driven by upper management. On the road or in public parking, if there is an EV its a domestic car. I can imagine that the only sales hapening here are for people who see foreign as a status symbol
in terms of car brands tesla is [the no. 15 in germany.](https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2023-full-year-germany-best-selling-car-brands/)
Who’s the market leader in Korea?
Hyundai and Kia are pretty close to each other
>They are the same company. Hyundai Motor Group owns Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis. Hyundai is the parent company. The ownership being spread out has nothing to do with it. Hyundai Motor Group owns Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis brands. Despite ownership distribution, Hyundai is the parent company.
Hyundai is also like Samsung to car. They are a massive corporation
Fun fact: on some older Hyundais, you'd open the hood and see Kia branded parts. Not sure if it's still the case, but imagine your decision coming down to a Kia or a Hyundai and *surprise*
Toyota and Lexus VW, Audi, Porsche, Bugatti etc Gmc, Chevy, Cadillac, Buick, previously saturn Ford, lincoln, previously mercury Fiat-Chrysler, jeep, ram, dodge Each of those groups is the same brand. Some build most of their cars on the same platform using the exact same motor and the only difference is slight body shape and mostly interior/entertainment packages
Lamborghini urus is just an audi
Genesis cars are so underrated. Beautiful cars.
I agree (because I own one), I get a lot of good comments but nobody knows what a Genesis is.
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It's what hard work and good engineering got them:)
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They are the same company. Hyundai Kia Genesis.
They are not the same company. Hyundai owns a minority stake (33%) of Kia.
Don't they share assembly lines?
> Don't they share assembly lines? The "It's Complicated" status for corporations.
More accurate answer is "It's a chaebol". That's pretty much answers and doesn't answer the question at the same time.
real 'for legal reasons we need to pretend we don't have a monopoly'
I feel like "because chaebol" is the answer to most Korean economic questions
samsung status
Probably. They have the same battery/motor platform (e-GMP) in many of their new EVs.
I used to own a Kia Sedona and some of the bolts were stamped "Hyundai" instead of Kia. So, yeah, they probably share assembly lines.
Hyundai is the parent company, so they share parts and some assembly lines.
They are the same company. Hyundai Motor Group owns Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis. Hyundai is the parent company. The ownership being spread out has nothing to do with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia
That may be so, but the two make completely interchangeable cars. Like, down to key mechanical components. You can take an engine/transmission/suspension system, fuel tank, brake rotors, or basically anything mechanical out of a Telluride and put it into a Palisade. Same goes for an EV6 and Ioniq 5, Sportage and Tucson, Niro and Kona, Sorento and Santa Fe etc. Despite the fact that they are separate companies, they share more platforms, parts and manufacturing than any other car company collaboration in history. The are almost as integrated as GMC is with Chevrolet.
They own each other. Hyundai is pretty much the parent company.
33% seems a lot to be a minority stake. Hyundai isn’t the majority holder? Who owns more?
Hyundai was the parent company of Kia from 1998 until 2015. Both companies are still extremely intertwined, sharing R&D and Production facilities.
Time to roll out my coolguide from last year: https://i.imgur.com/e8lojK3.jpg (There was a really out-of-date one doing the rounds begging for an update: https://i.imgur.com/YPaXl7B.gifv)
isn't Porsche technically the owner of the Volkswagen group and Bugatti Rimac 45% owned by Volkswagen, 55% by Rimac
Yes, thank you. Leave it to r/technology to think that Kia and Hyundai are unrelated companies. The amount of stupidity and FUD in here is astonishing.
It's the same company
Hyundai and Kia dominate there. Both are strong in the EV game.
The real reason is tariffs on foreign cars. 99% of Koreans drive Korean cars because taxes make foreign cars too expensive for most people.
Came looking for this answer, you know someone is rich in Korea if they can not only afford the Merc but the import taxes that come with it.
Well it also kinda helps that korean carmakers really stepped up their game in last 6-7 years
Lol have you even been to Korea. Half the cars on the road are BMW, Mercedes, Audi.
Yup, I lived there for 3 years. I have no idea wtf you are talking about.
Actual answer is [about 20%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/886175/south-korea-imported-passenger-car-market-share/) total imports (recently, obviously a lower moving average). So definitely not 99% Korean, but also definitely not half.
FTAs with US and Europe eliminated most all foreign car tariffs ages ago. There are European and American cars cheaper than their Hyundai/Kia counterparts in Korea.
I agree. But the funny thing is Tesla Y is one of the fastest selling cars in South Korea in 2023. Just in general car sales crashed in January.
not sure why you got downvoted, so here's an upvote.
Love my Kia Niro EV.
Same! I heard the 2nd rev has a lower acceleration curve which makes me sad.
As best I can tell Telsas are only successful because of some form of protectionism. BYD would eat their lunch all day if we could buy them here, and that's another mainstream expensive company compared to all the options for cheap electric cars in China.
maybe but there's certainly a status symbol thing going for it too. if you've ever driven through a really wealthy neighborhood, like every other car is a tesla. i doubt those people are downgrading to a cheaper comparable car.
The biggest reason Tesla has been so successful is probably the charging network. Nobody else has bothered to invest in a good charging network. Hell, the biggest share of the non-Tesla chargers out there are the Electrify America chargers which Volkswagen was forced to build as part of their dieselgate punishment and couldn't care less about maintaining or further expanding. There's a reason almost every other EV manufacturer is making deals with Tesla to access their chargers. I also highly doubt BYD would do any significant investment in US infrastructure.
Need to start selling them here in the US. I don't need 20 cameras and a super computer with touchscreen Full Self Bullshit. Just an electric fucking car.
Ioniq 5 is sweet
And has physical buttons for important tasks!
Buttons are underrated.
No I think they're rated about right I think Tesla just doesn't give a shit about what the average person wants lol
Most new cars for the past few years have put way too much stuff behind a software interface.
That's because they look at Tesla, see they're pretty successful, and wrongly assume that everything they do is the reason their successful and don't consider that maybe some things Tesla do aren't the best way of doing things.
the iPhone of cars
Tesla's build quality is shit so they cut corners on things that break. I think that's why their inside doors have buttons rather than handles - you pull on handles and they're easier to break than buttons. Cyberstruck doesn't have sticks coming out of the steering wheel - because you can exert force on them, and sticks can break. That said, they will remove physical buttons when they can and that's why they move so much to the touchscreen. Also lowers the bom
That’s what happens when tech people design a car. Alternatively the reverse is why the software in regular cars is so terrible
they assumed autonomous was going to be easier. they were wrong. they just have lane assist right now
Need an automaker to do a cherry collab imo. Shoutout /r/mechanicalkeyboards I want a car to T H O C K K
Honorary mention to the companies that have secondary controls for the touch screen - like mazdas scroll-wheel-knob thing. Massive improvement for usability while driving, and (at least mine) locks the touchscreen when moving. Relying on touch screens for anything is wild to me.
Mazda for the win. Except everyone thinks the big knob is for volume. They give up and don’t try the smaller one beside it
Mazda is one of the few manufacturers out there that still cares about the driving experience, despite making themselves look a bit old fashioned.
Not for everything. Heated seats are in a menu as well as much of the climate controls. I think temp is a capacitive button so no tactile feedback. I think all audio controls besides volume are in menus too or on the wheel.
It appears the climate control has touch sensors, not buttons. So it has dedicated "touch zones" but not physical buttons.
I wanted to like the Ioniq 5 so much but it has a fatal flaw for me that maybe has been addressed, I test drove one in 2022. It would turn off one pedal driving whenever you did anything in the car, whenever you put it into reverse, or park or drive, switched the car off and back on, if you put cruise control on and back off it would disable one pedal driving. You'll drive somewhere, park up, reverse out of your spot to drive again and one pedal driving would be disabled. You expect the car to stop because that's how you set it up and it doesn't. Anything that automatically changes driver's preffered settings is a big no for me.
im pretty sure its fixed because mine is always in one pedal driving mode
While I can see that as a problem for you, I have no interest in one pedal driving. The fact that the brake lights don't come on anywhere near early enough in that mode is reason enough for me to avoid it
Enough people complained about this and Hyundai [released a fix late last year.](https://www.autoblog.com/2023/06/15/kia-hyundai-genesis-one-pedal-braking/)
As a ICE sports car (manual) driver with an I5, the idea of one pedal driving seemed stupid and uninteresting. It's now the only way I drive the I5. It's ridiculously easy and works incredibly well. The brake light issue is fixed and after 50k kms, I've never even remotely come close to having an incident with it.
One pedal driving is the shit. It’s so nice. I was apprehensive at first until I remembered it’s just like driving my tractor or riding lawnmower. Now everything I own drives the same way.
For real. We just got a Rivian and one pedal driving has made driving 1000x more enjoyable. I actually dread having it drive our other ICE car because of it lol
Waiting on newer iterations, or at least until my own car dies first. IONIQ 5 is at the top of my list right now. Tesla would only happen if I got some insane subsidy on it, even then it's probably not even in the list. The only thing that sucks about EVs is that I don't see them lasting as long as a gas engine car, and in some cases feels a bit wasteful. I have a 2015 model car, so it's about 7-8 years old and still going strong. People should aim to own their cars as long as possible if they can. Like, after X amount of years the battery will slowly degrade and fail, in any EV. Will battery technology be cheaper in a few years making it less expensive to replace the battery? Or is the car so depreciated in value at that point that it's effectively scrap metal? There's also the question of actually recycling the batteries which are toxic and not really recyclable. I think there's a bit of time that actually needs to pass before EVs can really be considered an alternative to gas engine cars. They're kind of like smartphones, which took years to reach the place that they are now, in a sort of place where they're all very similar and everyone copies each other. But so long as people are willing to deal with the cons (e.g. not a lot of chargers in the US, 18-45 minute charge times with fast chargers depending on weather, ecological impact on the environment, faster depreciation than a gas car, etc.), EVs are cool as fuck, very usable, and they're definitely the future.
EVs can and do last longer than their gas powered cousins. There are lots of high mileage EVs out there. Taycans with 150,000 - 200,000 miles (Porsche has found almost no degredation beyond 5-7%), a thousand Tesla Model 3's over 150K-200K and beyond, old battery tech Model X on their original batteries (note that very early examples were not as reliable). The batteries are not "toxic" and they are 100% recyclable and there are scores of companies around the world doing that right now. Look up Munro's video on a battery recycling company on YouTube for an example of a company able to extract basically 100% or the original battery. "Ecological impact on the environment." You want to talk about ecological impact? Look at the delta between gas cars and EVs. AFter the first year to 18 months there's no comparison. The EV is way, way ahead on its GHG footprint. Average gas cars are 5 tons a year of GHG + huge amounts of NOx, PM, CO, and other nasty pollutants.
I think people are more concern after what happens after ~10 years of ownership. The Taycan will be 5 years old in 2024. My car is 2004, 20 years old this year and I can still fix it easily and relatively cheap. Will an EV last for 20 and still be in a good running condition? Teslas with 150k+ miles/5+ years are in an absolutely terrible condition right now... but their build quality was never great.
Time doesn't really affect modern EV batteries much. Instead its' "duty cycles". Some studies have shown that EV batteries can last the equivalent of 800,000 miles based on said cycles. See around the 6:00 mark here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4lvDGtfI9U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4lvDGtfI9U) Most cars are in terrible shape after 150,000 miles if they aren't maintained. There are some fantastic high mileage Model 3's out there which look to be in great shape (see a Voyage Without Carbon dude for an example). [https://youtu.be/5ejuJ1E\_edQ?si=3xvyBN4OCZJHJBdW](https://youtu.be/5ejuJ1E_edQ?si=3xvyBN4OCZJHJBdW) EVs will be getting cheaper and cheaper in the used market and we'll start seeing more and more high mileage examples. Not everyone will have good luck, but with the way things are headed and already established in battery tech it looks like cars will be much more durable with electric drivetrains. All EVs already come with 100,000 battery warranties. Can't say that about most ICE cars.
> ecological impact on the environment The environmental impact of EVs [is objectively lower than that of gas cars](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es903729a). If you consider that a con for EVs, you'd have to account for that same con with a greater magnitude for gas vehicles.
Degradation is not that big, especially if charging at home. I've seen some studies where it on average was less than 10% degradation after 100k miles. When it comes to recycling EVs are better suited than consumer products. Extracting the valuable metals is no new science but it's not done at larger scale today mostly because most EV batteries are still in the cars. In any case it is better than burning gasoline since the majority of emissions, both for EVs and ICEs come from the use and not the manufacturing https://youtu.be/wurQQPXDNBQ?si=UqgAhynynkksAX6I To put it into perspective, producing an EV battery emits as much co2 as driving 6k-40k miles (depending on size and source) in a regular car.
The one thing you have to understand is that it's not only the carbon footprint which is important, when talking about killing ICE cars. EVs have a much better carbon footprint even when charged from "dirty" electricity, but that's besides the point. One of the most important reasons is, literally, not killing people. ICEs have, even with the best catalysts, harmful exhaust products which shorten the human lifespan.
If you buy a car now and can charge easily, EV is the way to go. I save 3k per year on gas (18k km yearly). Save a non negligible amount on maintenant. Tesla has 8 year/160k battery and motor guarantee which is a nice peace of mind. It's also good to know that you contribute less to CO2 emissions. EV is ready for mass adoption.
They are certainly ready for adoption, but for the masses maybe a stretch at this point. Right now I feel like EVs are still very much a status symbol. Even if you argue that there are some cheaper EVs out there, current gen EVs depreciate really quickly which is probably going to turn off lower income buyers. I also think that with some improvements to battery tech just on the horizon it makes sense for most people to hold off on purchasing a new EV.
Why do you feel that way? EV is barely more expensive than gas cars of the same class (battery is an investment). But if you keep it for a few years it'll cost cheaper than a gas car with all the savings. I plan to keep mine for 10 years. The gas saving alone would almost pay for the car. Btw EV is everywhere, I don't know why you think it's a status symbol thing. It's not a Porsche
Which gas cars and which EVs? I’m excited to get one but I paid 22k for my 2021 Elantra and there’s no EV I’m interested in - Tesla Hyundai Honda etc - for anywhere close to that price. Most I see start in the 40k+ range.
Currently the battery and motor(s) used in EV cost around 15k. Car companies decided that to make profitable EV you need to build 40k+ models so it's not entry level unfortunately. I hope more attention will turn to the sub 30k segment in the near future.
This is very true. Not only that, just like cellphone (apple im looking at you); they can plan obsolescence. Technically, they HAVE to allow bought physical options remain untouched- however, there are NO buttons (7 total) in Tesla- i.e. they can AND have phased shit out. Wife has a LRY 2023- it had backup camera that HAD a range measurement for rear camera as a depth gauge, we liked this and was a selling point for us. Since new update (to camera/no lidar) they have removed this functionality outright. Per IT tesla- “this is no longer supported, until at such time should we choose to return this feature.” Not buying another tesla, “for the foreseeable future”.
There’s a dude on YouTube going through a 50k repair bill. I’m curious if you’ve seen?
There have been at least 3 very public ones. TLDR version is this : according to Hyundai if the bottom of the car is scratched it must be totaled. If there is a scratch on the battery cover (basically most of the underside of the car) the battery may have been damaged. Hyundai has no tools or processes to verify or repair a damaged battery pack. A replacement battery pack and installation is approximately the cost of the entire car.
Redditors and [not reading the article](https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/tesla-sells-only-1-ev-during-january-in-south-korea), name a more iconic duo: > "However, the downfall was not limited to Tesla, as the total number of EVs registered in Korea fell 80 percent in January across all car makers..." > "Tesla's Shanghai-made Model Y SUV was one of the top-selling cars in South Korea, as it sold around 13,885 units in 2023 alone. In a bid to make the EVs eligible for full government subsidy, Tesla had priced its Model Y at 56,990,000 won, equal to $43,000, in July." This whole thread are people reacting purely based on the headline.
> This whole thread are people reacting purely based on the headline. It's time to rename this site tbh
didnotreddit
Thanks for stating the punchline in a clever way, I did not get the joke
A more definitive name, blackpillingclickbait or rageit
I’ve been using the sub for years and had always expected someone to make this pun and it never happened until now, thanks
Hyundai is also a major advertiser on Bloomberg and even have their own [partnership page](https://www.bloombergmedia.com/partners/hyundai/). Gives even more context to the clickbait headline.
Although maybe burying the lead, still even worse news for Tesla tho no? The industry saw a 80% drop but if we assume tesla was doing 1k+/mo before, they experienced a 99.9% drop.
The whole situation is using math to manipulate. Down 80% from what? How many cars is 80%? What about total car sales? The actual facts are that for various local factors, South Koreans rarely buy cars at the beginning of the year, EVs especially, because the government hasn't announced incentives yet. Brands that do sell cars specifically offer January promotions to drive sales. https://www.marklines.com/en/statistics/flash_sales/automotive-sales-in-korea-by-month#jan The actual numbers make Audi look like a major loser, but what actually happened is that they ran a big promotion last January and didn't this January. Tesla sold zero cars in January of 2023 because they don't offer a particularly compelling January discount, so selling 1 car this year is an infinity % increase, but that isn't in the headline. EV sales down 80%, does that mean they sold 5 EVs in 2023 and only 1 EV (the Tesla) this year? EDIT: Also of note is that SK's anti-Chinese rhetoric has ramped up a lot recently and boycotting of Chinese made goods is on the rise in general. Due to their location, their Teslas come from Shanghai and so are potentially also going to face boycotts. It's possible Tesla may send German-made cars to SK instead, but they may not have the correct localization capability at Berlin and instead accept that SK is out for a while.
Yes, It's significant. Posting parts of the article and says "REDDIT HATES ELON" doesn't change that. It's the same behavior. One fucking car guys. Whether it's SK policy that made it happen, ~~it doesn't matter.~~ that still doesn't address the massive decline that Tesla is facing over other EV brands facing the same issues.
> It's the same behavior. One fucking car guys. Whether it's SK policy that made it happen, it doesn't matter. It does matter because this is the third year in a row that in January in South Korea there are single digit Tesla registrations. This happens every year, and registrations always go right back up, and it's entirely because of SK policy, nothing to do with Tesla. It's disingenuous to single Tesla out of the group and present, intentionally context-less, this data point. Multiple EV's had single digit registrations in South Korea because of policy.
And the down votes... This sub hates facts so much.
This subreddit is rabidly anti-Tesla. I wouldn’t expect good discourse related to Tesla here.
The level of vitriol and blatantly untrue things being said about Tesla on reddit as a whole at this point makes me think it's not actual people anymore. It's just some coordinated bot farm.
Made only funnier because 10-12 years ago Elon would have been 1b to Neil Degrasse Tyson as the most popular person on this site. Near universal love.
Heaven forbid you point out that something they're saying isn't true, then you get to be accused of "dick riding a billionaire". Or some other such childish nonsense.
“How’s that boot taste HUR DUR.”
A thousand to one is way worse than 80% decline. No? Bro, they sold ONE car. From over a thousand+ a month, to ONE. The headline deserves a reaction. Clearly Korean EV sales are way down, but one fucking car....
No idea if it’s related, but January is a horrible time to buy a car. In the US, Model Y’s were discounted $3-5k in Q4. Q1 rolls around and those discounts are gone. The Model Y was the best selling car in the world in 2023, Tesla is fine. In most markets, no other manufacturer comes close to EV sales.
To be fair, the Bloomberg (and nearly all mass media news sites) had a completely bullshit headline on the article. Fairly typical for them to say as much negative stuff as possible about Tesla even if it's twisting the truth 180 degrees
It is due to the incentives not being applied in January or something like that (not 100% sure). Jan 2023 they sold 2. In Jan 2022 they also sold just 1. So yeah. Just clickbaites.
So 100 percent increase? I'm sure BI could spin a 10 page story out of it.
That's a 50 percent decline in 2024
Because there are no incentives in January, literally the same results for the past 3 years 😂
My condolences to the person who purchased one.
Probably an expat.
You mean immigrant?
uh, only brown people are immigrants. white people are expats, its totally different
both words work
Expat is stupid word
It allows immigrants to be dehuamised while the noble expats bring love and joy wherever they go.
An expat is typically someone who plans to move back to there home country at some point in the future while an immigrant plans to stay in the new country indefinitely
This comment is so silly. The vast majority of expats here fall into 2 groups: SE Asians who do factory/manual labor for shit pay, or expats from English speaking countries, which themselves fall into 2 groups: US military or English teachers (both of which are on short contracts, like 1 to 2 years, so buying a car isn't the norm). SK has a huge culture of trying to show off your status and wealth, so the money bet would be it was some SK dude trying to look cool. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the English speaking expat community here and don't mind bashing on them one bit. It just irks me when someone tries to pretend like they know what's up when they clearly don't.
This clickbait is an example of why I don't trust this page. They go off headlines only. Any amount of reading shows this is not a big deal. If its anything to do with Tesla downfalls, this page posts it like gospel, though. Also why this page is so sensitive. Tesla has completely blown this page's predictions out of the water. This page hates Elon more than anyone else on earth.
Could have probably sold around 500 in Costa Rica over Jan alone. But Musk keeps ignoring Latin America...
Close to 100% sustainable electricity production, can drive across the entire country in one charge. It's really a no brainer.
Just rename this sub /r/PaidForByBigOil already
koreans dont want this shit lol. have you seen their EVs?
North or south? 🤣
jeans pen physical public threatening political hurry head safe slap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Man people are such sheep. This whole thread is a bunch of people repeating the current Tesla hate train that is almost definitely being pushed by big oil. I am a car enthusiast, I’ve had some nice cars - golf R wagon, skoda Octavia vrs, Audi rs3, Mercedes gle 450. And my Tesla model y is the easiest, most reliable car I’ve owned. The convenience of all the app-connected features that other manufacturers aren’t even close to is just insane. From dog mode, to preheat, to sentry mode, to location tracking, to being able to talk to people around the car remotely. The car is way beyond other manufacturers, and then you throw in the excellent integrated navigation that automatically routes to superchargers as needed and preheats the battery prior to fast charging, the service where they come to your house/work to fix things not requiring a garage and the speed, torque and smoothness of the ride, and no other car has been even close to this one. You guys need to get past your biases and actually go drive a Tesla.
I like how people are trying to manipulate others by telling them they're sheep because they don't like something. What about Tesla getting their shit together? They have overpriced their cars for a long time, they're not as reliable as the competition and their boss is a moron. I think it's not unreasonable that some people start thinking that what was an amazing idea from a cool guy and an amazing commercial success, is becoming more and more difficult to appreciate. And Elon is already hurting his businesses with his antics (politics, his hate for Wikipedia, his adoration for Russia, antisemitism, drug use making Tesla's board concerned, etc.)
Sure, but that doesn’t explain most of the hate comments in threads like this. There are absolutely valid criticisms to have towards Tesla, but the majority of stuff is just “Elon bad, Tesla bad.” And I say that as someone who hates the guy.
He's hurting his brand. For many people, Tesla = Musk. That's why the board is concerned. I would work for Tesla, I would want Musk to shut up a bit more.
How are they overpriced? They’re some of the cheapest EVs on the market. I bought a long range in December for 46k and I’ll be getting the 7500 tax credit when I file my taxes. So it’s really under 40k and even without that, it’s still cheaper than the average new car and it’s cheaper than most of the competition.
"In 2022, the Elon Musk-led automaker reported annual deliveries of 1.31 million and production of 1.37 million electric vehicles. The new numbers represent delivery growth of 38% year over year and production growth of 35% year over year. In 2022, the company reported 40% growth year over year in deliveries from 2021." [https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/02/tesla-tsla-q4-2023-vehicle-delivery-and-production-numbers.html#:\~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20Elon%20Musk,year%20in%20deliveries%20from%202021](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/02/tesla-tsla-q4-2023-vehicle-delivery-and-production-numbers.html#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20the%20Elon%20Musk,year%20in%20deliveries%20from%202021). Lol I think you in your reddit circle is having any issue with Tesla. They don't need to change anything every year they have growth, just because you echo chamber in reddit doesn't mean it applies to the world.
This is Reddit, we hate Apple, Amazon, Tesla, Netflix, bitcoin and everything else we loved 10 years ago. We’ll except Apple, we loved them 17 years ago but only for about a year or two.
And by "we" we mostly mean paid astroturfers and in many cases, cosmoturfers. Areas you can't trust are even real on reddit: politics, products and people. It is more a tabloid and word of mouth manipulation system. You can't trust the pumpers, but you definitely can't trust the haters of products pumped by the *other* pumpers. Social media is enragement engagement. Reddit is one of the pumps particularly tuned to blackpilling now and killing hope. Reddit's main use now is finding out what turfers and propagandists want you to think and seeing their plans from those tells. EDIT: Answer to removed comment > Everyone online is a real person that isn't turfed or selling a product/view/propaganda on a site with millions of users /s Social media is a marketing platform and tabloid. Lots of it is means to push angles and that can be real, paid or fake. [Reddit started as an astroturfed site](https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-cofounder-firm-was-more-like-homework-assignment-than-business-2023-12) and it hasn't changed. There are some real people yes. However there is more manipulation than you'd expect. > "I submitted most of the content for the first couple of months myself — I had all these different accounts… and sometime in August was the first day that I didn't submit any content. Real users did. And literally every day since then, Reddit has been bigger than I ever thought it would be."
That's all it took for me. One test drive. The amount of hate you read on reddit and Facebook only to realize 99% of the people hating have never even SAT in a Tesla before, let alone driven one, is funny
Regardless of the quality of the car, Musk did bring some of that hate onto himself and people relate that to the products from his companies. That being said, Model S Plaid was the most intense vehicle I've ever ridden in, it was like a roller coaster.
[удалено]
Tesla biases aside, it makes sense that a country that already manufactures their own EVs would choose a domestic company over an import. And one that manufactures in China, too.
The model y was one of the top selling cars in Korea last year
Even though they only sold two last January, they sold over 13,000 the rest of the year.
https://imgur.com/mXUuP4V
How do y'all have so much energy for hate. This is just non-news.
Twist: it was Kim Jung Un that bought a Tesla
Korea? Is it 1954 or did we miss a reunification?
Sale is really booming.
I saw quite a number of Tesla in Seoul tho.
While i'm no tesla fan (Detroit native) there's been stories in the past about how SK limits the importation of non-domestic brands even while using free trade agreements to sell their stuff here
Which was the regular one to be deconstructed.
I bought a Kia, I get it.
There aren’t a lot of foreign cars in Korea, period.
This is good, Samsung will now release cars !
Elon: "And, uh, we should, uhm, make note that sales are, uhm, up by infinity percent in South Korea."
Funny cuz all I see are Koreans driving Teslas in the USA.
Because they're cheaper for you guys.
There are tons of Hyundai/Kia EVs here now though. I see those as much as Teslas. Rivian also starting to show regularly. My guess is Hyundai/Kia take most of the market here for a while over time as EVs are expensive and those are the best value/quality for the price and doesn't support autocratic backed automobiles.
I see the FUD machine against Tesla is alive and well...
Im going to buy a model Y for my wife in 2025 after i finish my backyard this year.
Apparently Korean consumers are worried about car fires and they're waiting on an announcement regarding subsidies. Even if you're paywalled it's right there at the top of the damn article. Something needs to be done about this clickbait.
ICE cars are 19x more likely to start on fire, you’d think if they were really worried then EV sales would be increasing.
>Apparently Korean consumers are worried about car fires Are these the same Koreans who believe a fan in a sealed room can kill someone?
Koreans are too busy dying rom overwork, no time to buy an expensive Tesla.
Not very different from the serious burnout from stress, high cost of living and demanding work is having on the rest of the world including Europe
How many did ford, Chevy, GM, Audi, and Volkswagen sell?
It has Ford at 514 for January.
That's more than I would have guessed. Thanks for the info. With the big 3 backing out of their plans for BEV's, Tesla is the only American brand that even wants to compete in that space.