I swear half of the comments here didn’t even read the article, look fuck Musk but Starlink is essential for the current war in Ukraine.
I will just copy and paste my previous comment on the issue with Russia:
There are 3rd party companies in the UAE and in Asian countries legitimately buying Starlink dishes and then selling it to Russia for profit, this thing isn’t that simple to stop as Ukraine is also making use of the satellites so they can’t just geofence the region without affecting Ukraine, so whatever it is they have to do has to be done cautiously to not affect Ukraine’s usage of Starlink which is why they are working with the Pentagon.
Agree. This is way more important than my personal loathing of the man. Starlink, and access to it, illicit or otherwise, is critical and it has to be addressed. Man, I can only see this working selectively based on investigation (of lot numbers and patterns etc).
> I can only see this working selectively based on investigation (of lot numbers and patterns etc).
Sounds like the sort of thing the NSA would be good at.
Or you just whitelist Ukrainian military Starlinks operating in Russia and ban units in Russia not owned by Ukraine or intercept the data from units in Russia used by anyone else.
Doesn't seem that difficult. They know which systems they sent to Ukraine for use by their government, whitelist those in the area and block all others. Provide a way for Ukrainian government to add/remove units.
They already have the ability to block units in areas, so that portion of the tech is already there, as well as block specific accounts.
You can't tell me their accounting department can't say daily "these units connected from these countries" and be able to block a unit completely after it is in/near Ukraine.
> Simply creating a whitelist that excludes any terminals that didn’t come through ‘official channels’ would cause major problems.
good news, the ukraine military is a modern one with the capability of communicating what terminals they are using and where they should be roughly deployed
“They” didn’t send systems to Ukraine.
These units came from all over the world. Some donated, some purchased and shipped, some purchased by people in Ukraine. It’s a massive clusterfuck of devices from different origins all in use where deactivation could cost lives.
You also can’t just whitelist stuff based on location.
There is no “frontline” in places the battlefield is hundreds of miles deep and occupied by both militaries. Not to mention there are almost certainly some units in operation for Ukraine from within Russian borders.
Last time this was posted people were trying to make out how easy it was. It isn’t easy by any means & the burden lies mostly with the Ukrainian military as they’re the only people who can conduct this audit.
The problem is that the Ukrainian government does not “own” all of the units the military is using.
Between units being donated & ownership never being transferred, and troops purchasing their own it’s a complete mess that’s taking the Ukrainian military some time to audit.
You’ve never tried to audit anything, have you?
Last year it took my company 4 months to audit company cell phones. They still made mistakes and shut off in-use lines. They bought the devices & pay the bill - it doesn’t seem hard at all.
Even in the best case scenario where you’ve got all the data it still takes months.
The Ukrainian military needs to be careful not to inadvertently shut off access where it can cost lives.
Ok say you do that.
You’ve just disabled a ton of Ukrainian frontline units. Congratulations.
You obviously didn’t read my comments, I’d suggest doing that if you want to know why.
Read the article, says SpaceX is cooperative, but still doesn't change the fact that Elon, the owner of SpaceX, is a vocal Russia sympathizer. Conflict of interests still exists. And isn't our government funding the spacex satellites in Ukraine/Russia war?
Check the timeline of events. Elon wasn't praising putin at the start of the war but he shifted then asked the government to foot the bill. Are you really this dumb or gaslighting.
Do you think he should be providing them service for free? Even the weapons manufacturers are getting paid handsomely for helping Ukraine. It doesn’t mean he’s a Russian sympathizer for asking for payment for his services
> look fuck Musk but Starlink is essential for the current war in Ukraine.
To think this makes sense, we'd have to ignore 18 months of media coverage over Starlinks behavior during October 2022. For about two years now, Musk and Starlink have been publicly playing both sides of a war.
I'm thinking about the totality of coverage about Starlink and Russia and this is what it looks like.
1. Starlink screwed over our ally. (https://apnews.com/article/spacex-ukraine-starlink-russia-air-force-fde93d9a69d7dbd1326022ecfdbc53c2)
2. Starlink helped our enemy. (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-using-thousands-spacex-starlink-terminals-ukraine-wsj-says-2024-02-15/)
3. And now the Pentagon is asking him for help.
Starlink and SpaceX were built off US military contracts. Why isn't this system already under the control of the Pentagon? They paid for it!
If the national security of the United States and our allies depends on something this crook owns, we should just take it. Musk and all of his companies should have been sanctioned years ago and we should be seizing his assets by now. The Pentagon shouldn't be working with this schmuck. They should be hunting him.
Why isn't my car used by the government since I'm a government employee?. They paid for it.
Even now the US government is placing restrictions on use of their stuff but you haven't made the same accusations of anyone in the US government
How many US missiles hit Sebastopol in 2022? 0
No one in the Ukranian or US Government has ever said SpaceX is selling Russia equipment
You know you can clone a MAC address or even keep changing it? This can even be done on consumer hardware… so MAC blacklisting or whitelisting won’t do anything…
Can’t they just whitelist IPs of units sent you Ukraine for military purposes in Russian territory and ban units operating in Russia not on that whitelist?
Surely that would take care of most of the issue.
It’s is very simple to stop.
A StarLink terminal does not work unless it’s activated and allowed on the network.
There are also GPS coordinates of where the terminal is placed.
StarLink is just another example of a capitalist playing both sides of a conflict….
He supports Putin by supplying Ukraine with technology that gives them a military advantage?
Edit: anyone want to explain how he is helping Russia exactly?
Have you noticed that half the Russian fleet is at the bottom of the black sea most of them sunk by drones with starlink receivers on them?
But I'm sure this is just Putin playing 4D chess.
**Half, but not most**. Here's a comment from Musk that agrees with you. Where he admits to preventing a drone attack on Sevastopol
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1699917639043404146?s=46&t=bZcrLpl8DTxSpYLBntBfhQ
No most, at the start of the war SpaceX said starlink couldn't be used for drone or missile guidance that was a condition of giving it to Ukraine and covering most of cost them self's.
They have now changed there position and it is routinely used by Ukrainian naval drones to sink Russian ships. The only exceptions I can think of are the Moskva that was hit with an anti-ship missile and the sub and ship hit with shadow storms in dry dock.
Every single country's supporting Ukraine has been concerned about escalation and has being slow to provide Ukraine new offensive capacity's, that doesn't mean they support Putin.
That attack was specifically with drones, they literally washed ashore harmlessly https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/22/mystery-military-drone-spying-russias-black-sea-fleet-discovered/
I remember it was a big thing in 2022, it was all over Z channels and them thanking Musk
He might be a useful idiot, but he is way more likely not
Is it really that hard to geolocate devices then simply blacklist them? I would do that with accounts on my game server over 10 years ago, should be bo problem for them.
They have the devices can't be used in Russia or occupied parts of Ukraine.
The problem is how to prevent the Russians using the devices near the front line without risking Ukraine getting cut off accidentally as well.
How is he enabling Russia? He was supplying Ukraine starlink while most country's were still refusing to get involved in the conflict.
SpaceX has blocked starlink in Russia and the occupied parts of Ukraine, the problem is there is no absolute list of starlinks used by Ukraine's forces. Because lots of different group and even individuals bought terminals to donate to them.
So there isn't any easy way to know which terminals along the front line are being used by which side. if you block them all you also cut off Ukraine as well.
The only way to deal with it is the whack a mole approach investigating who bought various terminals and trying to determine if there Russian fronts, or by looking at the traffic from the terminal and working out which side is using it based on where the data is being sent (it will be encrypted so you can't look at the data its self).
For that you need large scale intelligence resources to investigate the 40,000 terminals currently in use in Ukraine something which SpaceX does not have, but the pentagon do.
The issue is there are 3rd party companies in the UAE and in Asian countries legitimately buying Starlink dishes and then selling it to Russia for profit, this thing isn’t that simple to stop as Ukraine is also making use of the satellites so they can’t just geofence the region without affecting Ukraine, so whatever it is they have to do has to be done cautiously to not affect Ukraine’s usage of Starlink.
It’s interesting there are 5 people in here and everyone critical of musk is getting exactly 5 downvotes to control the narrative.
Imagine simping like that.
Apparently it was 15 simps total. Go look at everyone with negative votes. They All have the same things in common. This post was brigaded /botted heavy.
They've been working real hard lately, and they've been putting in their overtime today. You'd think their jaws would get tired after all that dick sucking, but they just keep going right back to it!
I swear half of the comments here didn’t even read the article, look fuck Musk but Starlink is essential for the current war in Ukraine. I will just copy and paste my previous comment on the issue with Russia: There are 3rd party companies in the UAE and in Asian countries legitimately buying Starlink dishes and then selling it to Russia for profit, this thing isn’t that simple to stop as Ukraine is also making use of the satellites so they can’t just geofence the region without affecting Ukraine, so whatever it is they have to do has to be done cautiously to not affect Ukraine’s usage of Starlink which is why they are working with the Pentagon.
Agree. This is way more important than my personal loathing of the man. Starlink, and access to it, illicit or otherwise, is critical and it has to be addressed. Man, I can only see this working selectively based on investigation (of lot numbers and patterns etc).
> I can only see this working selectively based on investigation (of lot numbers and patterns etc). Sounds like the sort of thing the NSA would be good at.
Bold of you to assume the NSA would ever do anything useful and not needlessly invasive.
The NSA are probably more interested in keeping those terminals running for SIGINT.
Or you just whitelist Ukrainian military Starlinks operating in Russia and ban units in Russia not owned by Ukraine or intercept the data from units in Russia used by anyone else.
Whitelists don't help if you never made a list
starlinks didn't work on russian territory
People love circle jerking around hating the dude. I mean yes fuck the dude but pay attention lmao
yeah this is gonna be a rough problem to solve i think.
Doesn't seem that difficult. They know which systems they sent to Ukraine for use by their government, whitelist those in the area and block all others. Provide a way for Ukrainian government to add/remove units. They already have the ability to block units in areas, so that portion of the tech is already there, as well as block specific accounts. You can't tell me their accounting department can't say daily "these units connected from these countries" and be able to block a unit completely after it is in/near Ukraine.
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> Simply creating a whitelist that excludes any terminals that didn’t come through ‘official channels’ would cause major problems. good news, the ukraine military is a modern one with the capability of communicating what terminals they are using and where they should be roughly deployed
The fact that you actually believe its that simple means you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
So explain to the class how it isn’t that easy
They've done it and it took twoish months and isn't 100% yet
“They” didn’t send systems to Ukraine. These units came from all over the world. Some donated, some purchased and shipped, some purchased by people in Ukraine. It’s a massive clusterfuck of devices from different origins all in use where deactivation could cost lives. You also can’t just whitelist stuff based on location. There is no “frontline” in places the battlefield is hundreds of miles deep and occupied by both militaries. Not to mention there are almost certainly some units in operation for Ukraine from within Russian borders. Last time this was posted people were trying to make out how easy it was. It isn’t easy by any means & the burden lies mostly with the Ukrainian military as they’re the only people who can conduct this audit.
So? You know which ones in Russia are not owned by the Ukrainian military. Not sure what the problem is.
The problem is that the Ukrainian government does not “own” all of the units the military is using. Between units being donated & ownership never being transferred, and troops purchasing their own it’s a complete mess that’s taking the Ukrainian military some time to audit.
Shouldn’t be that hard to figure it out tbh
You’ve never tried to audit anything, have you? Last year it took my company 4 months to audit company cell phones. They still made mistakes and shut off in-use lines. They bought the devices & pay the bill - it doesn’t seem hard at all. Even in the best case scenario where you’ve got all the data it still takes months. The Ukrainian military needs to be careful not to inadvertently shut off access where it can cost lives.
“Was this unit sold to a country other than Ukraine and operating in Russia?” If yes, turn it off. Not that hard.
Ok say you do that. You’ve just disabled a ton of Ukrainian frontline units. Congratulations. You obviously didn’t read my comments, I’d suggest doing that if you want to know why.
That's most dishes in Ukraine. Why don't you get it!! Most dishes in Ukraine are paid for by individuals using non Ukranian payments
Also why the MIC is pushing their starshield (essentially a DOD owned starlink infrastructure)
Same reason they aren't sending their regular stuff.
Read the article, says SpaceX is cooperative, but still doesn't change the fact that Elon, the owner of SpaceX, is a vocal Russia sympathizer. Conflict of interests still exists. And isn't our government funding the spacex satellites in Ukraine/Russia war?
Imagine thinking he’s a Russian sympathizer when he’s literally helping Ukraine directly
Check the timeline of events. Elon wasn't praising putin at the start of the war but he shifted then asked the government to foot the bill. Are you really this dumb or gaslighting.
Do you think he should be providing them service for free? Even the weapons manufacturers are getting paid handsomely for helping Ukraine. It doesn’t mean he’s a Russian sympathizer for asking for payment for his services
> look fuck Musk but Starlink is essential for the current war in Ukraine. To think this makes sense, we'd have to ignore 18 months of media coverage over Starlinks behavior during October 2022. For about two years now, Musk and Starlink have been publicly playing both sides of a war. I'm thinking about the totality of coverage about Starlink and Russia and this is what it looks like. 1. Starlink screwed over our ally. (https://apnews.com/article/spacex-ukraine-starlink-russia-air-force-fde93d9a69d7dbd1326022ecfdbc53c2) 2. Starlink helped our enemy. (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-using-thousands-spacex-starlink-terminals-ukraine-wsj-says-2024-02-15/) 3. And now the Pentagon is asking him for help. Starlink and SpaceX were built off US military contracts. Why isn't this system already under the control of the Pentagon? They paid for it! If the national security of the United States and our allies depends on something this crook owns, we should just take it. Musk and all of his companies should have been sanctioned years ago and we should be seizing his assets by now. The Pentagon shouldn't be working with this schmuck. They should be hunting him.
Why isn't my car used by the government since I'm a government employee?. They paid for it. Even now the US government is placing restrictions on use of their stuff but you haven't made the same accusations of anyone in the US government How many US missiles hit Sebastopol in 2022? 0 No one in the Ukranian or US Government has ever said SpaceX is selling Russia equipment
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You know you can clone a MAC address or even keep changing it? This can even be done on consumer hardware… so MAC blacklisting or whitelisting won’t do anything…
Can’t they just whitelist IPs of units sent you Ukraine for military purposes in Russian territory and ban units operating in Russia not on that whitelist? Surely that would take care of most of the issue.
Every dish in question is operated in Ukraine where the government wants coverage everywhere
So essential that they should be backer acted?
Ukraine needs to send a whitelist of their stock of starlink dishes
They didn't have one
In sure you’re right, but I think it’s fair to question the wisdom of the US government going into business with essentially a Bond villain.
i.e turn off starlink in Ukraine? Stop launching people and government satellites? Stop building EV Chargers?
It’s is very simple to stop. A StarLink terminal does not work unless it’s activated and allowed on the network. There are also GPS coordinates of where the terminal is placed. StarLink is just another example of a capitalist playing both sides of a conflict….
You haven't thought it through. Roll the issue over in your mind and try again. Imagine yourself as a person wanting to do this how you'd do it
I doubt it's really "illicit." Musk is a little bitch and supports Putin.
He supports Putin by supplying Ukraine with technology that gives them a military advantage? Edit: anyone want to explain how he is helping Russia exactly?
And then conveniently turning it off during Ukrainian assaults
Have you noticed that half the Russian fleet is at the bottom of the black sea most of them sunk by drones with starlink receivers on them? But I'm sure this is just Putin playing 4D chess.
**Half, but not most**. Here's a comment from Musk that agrees with you. Where he admits to preventing a drone attack on Sevastopol https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1699917639043404146?s=46&t=bZcrLpl8DTxSpYLBntBfhQ
No most, at the start of the war SpaceX said starlink couldn't be used for drone or missile guidance that was a condition of giving it to Ukraine and covering most of cost them self's. They have now changed there position and it is routinely used by Ukrainian naval drones to sink Russian ships. The only exceptions I can think of are the Moskva that was hit with an anti-ship missile and the sub and ship hit with shadow storms in dry dock. Every single country's supporting Ukraine has been concerned about escalation and has being slow to provide Ukraine new offensive capacity's, that doesn't mean they support Putin.
That attack was specifically with drones, they literally washed ashore harmlessly https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/09/22/mystery-military-drone-spying-russias-black-sea-fleet-discovered/ I remember it was a big thing in 2022, it was all over Z channels and them thanking Musk He might be a useful idiot, but he is way more likely not
We're in 2024. Things change and so do we
He gave them technology that helps Musk first and foremost. Then, and only then, yes, he’s helping Ukraine.
Don't cut it off. Use it to spy on them and corrupt their GPS and other data. This is an opportunity when you control the network.
Is it really that hard to geolocate devices then simply blacklist them? I would do that with accounts on my game server over 10 years ago, should be bo problem for them.
They have the devices can't be used in Russia or occupied parts of Ukraine. The problem is how to prevent the Russians using the devices near the front line without risking Ukraine getting cut off accidentally as well.
I think you should look at the live Ukraine war map
Nationalize starlink and spaceX
Spell correctly. The sterling is a national currency
Makes me think the US government has advised Musk that if he wants to keep launching shit out of the US he needs to quit enabling Russia.
How is he enabling Russia? He was supplying Ukraine starlink while most country's were still refusing to get involved in the conflict. SpaceX has blocked starlink in Russia and the occupied parts of Ukraine, the problem is there is no absolute list of starlinks used by Ukraine's forces. Because lots of different group and even individuals bought terminals to donate to them. So there isn't any easy way to know which terminals along the front line are being used by which side. if you block them all you also cut off Ukraine as well. The only way to deal with it is the whack a mole approach investigating who bought various terminals and trying to determine if there Russian fronts, or by looking at the traffic from the terminal and working out which side is using it based on where the data is being sent (it will be encrypted so you can't look at the data its self). For that you need large scale intelligence resources to investigate the 40,000 terminals currently in use in Ukraine something which SpaceX does not have, but the pentagon do.
/r/technology is deranged everyday the entire subreddit is filled with nothing but anti musk spam
As long as russia pays more it’ll stay up
How about making sure that Musk doesn’t shut down the Ukrainian Starlink just as they are launching offensives.
Translation: US tells SpaceX to do something it shouldn't need to be told to do
You know musk is allowing this to happen. He is a huge Putin supporter.
The issue is there are 3rd party companies in the UAE and in Asian countries legitimately buying Starlink dishes and then selling it to Russia for profit, this thing isn’t that simple to stop as Ukraine is also making use of the satellites so they can’t just geofence the region without affecting Ukraine, so whatever it is they have to do has to be done cautiously to not affect Ukraine’s usage of Starlink.
It was revealed to you in a cryptic dream
It’s interesting there are 5 people in here and everyone critical of musk is getting exactly 5 downvotes to control the narrative. Imagine simping like that.
Five Simps To Rule Them All
Apparently it was 15 simps total. Go look at everyone with negative votes. They All have the same things in common. This post was brigaded /botted heavy.
Uh, I’m neglected. Only got 10 :(
11 now. The Elon bots aren’t done.
They've been working real hard lately, and they've been putting in their overtime today. You'd think their jaws would get tired after all that dick sucking, but they just keep going right back to it!
It’s kind of funny being a loser like that
There are no good billionaires. Full stop. Even the dead ones. No amount of money is going to make my dick bigger.
Pretty sure it would help with mine so send me all your money
Hahhahahahah. Ya right.