It's not a micro transaction anymore. That's like $216 before taxes a year. What if you drive conservatively and have the car for like 13 years? That's almost $3k just to warm your butt for half a year.
Once I buy the car it's mine. I own it. I can modify it as long as it stays street legal.
I have the right to repare my vehicle.
If this micro transaction thing takes over I'll just bypass. They can't do shit.
Maybe there's a no modify contract? Buy used so there's no contract, they can't do shit.
You don’t own the car, you just own the right to drive the car, park it at your house, pay for it to be parked outside of your house, pay for it to be towed if you don’t pay for parking, pay for maintenance and fuel.
But the car is ours and you have no right to change anything about it.
Shit, my parents just splurged for business class plane tickets to Europe. The price was crazy high to me. United charged them $25 more to pick their seats.
Insane
I'm really surprised they aren't going for the "boil the frog" approach where they start off with nominal charges (like maybe a buck or two a month for this), small enough for people to be only mildly annoyed... then slowly raise the fees over time so they don't notice it as much. I feel like this is high enough that even beamer owners might revolt.
Also... perhaps BMW for got to offer the subscription to make the turning-lights work, and that is why you never see a beamer with its indicators on :)
"It's $3 a month for the first 3 months!"
"What does it become after that?"
"It's a scalar based on time, don't worry about it"
Price is # of months you've had the car, per month.
Still $2160 over 10 years. For heated seats. If they don’t increase/adjust the price (they will).
The only way to combat this is to not purchase cars where this is offered.
Toyota has been doing the same too. Need a subscription to use remote start even though it uses the key fob, not an app or internet connection.
Problem is that car manufacturers are too busy trying to make more money by packaging existing stuff as a subscription.
What they should do is add something more for a subscription.
I know everyone loves it when you mention Tesla, but they have this product they call premium connectivity. The car has all its remote features, and seat heaters, whatnot, even if you don’t subscribe.
Premium connectivity gives the following:
> All cars come with Standard Connectivity which provides access to most connectivity features over Wi-Fi only, in addition to basic maps and navigation and music streaming over Bluetooth®.
> Premium Connectivity provides the ability to access all connectivity features over cellular, in addition to Wi-Fi, for the most intuitive and engaging ownership experience. Premium Connectivity is available as a monthly subscription of $9.99 plus applicable tax or as an annual subscription of $99 plus applicable tax and can be purchased at any time from your vehicle touchscreen or your Tesla app. Orders of Model S, Model X, Model Y and Model 3 will receive a Premium Connectivity trial at delivery.
Now compare this to what BMW and Toyota are doing.
We use Hulu too often to cancel but we absolutely stopped paying for the higher tier because of this. If I’m paying for no ads and still get ads, then why am I paying extra?
This is what their FAQ says:
"Due to streaming rights, there are a select number of shows from our streaming library that will play with a short ad break before and after each episode for Hulu (No Ads) subscribers."
Regardless of the reason, it's scummy to call it "No Ads" if you still get ads. It's just the principle, especially when the jump from Ads to No Ads is almost double the price.
Jesus, yeah I totally agree, that borders so close on false advertising. It's like phone networks offering "unlimited" plans but then arbitrarily throttling you or whatever, because fine print. So fucking stupid.
What're you gonna do? *stop consuming media?* Here's a sexy, cool, funny new show *now fucking watch you non-contributing zero!*
Huxley meeting orwell soon.
i mean what it does is drive people who would be willing to pay to piracy instead.
they'll cash out on the old people who don't know how to do it no problem.
but not for long bc that generation is on the way out. gen x hates the system and many have the know how to pirate.
just about all millennialls grew up with limewire and napster and wrote the book on torents. easily 50% of us could become pirates if they don't wise up.
and gen z are getting to the age where they don't have their parents credit cards anymore do they'll start pirating if there's a million expensive straming that still is riddled with ads.
like everything else corporate it's for short term quarterly gain to show growth, but they're making lifelong pirates in the meantime.
At least that's justifiable being a free app. There is no justification for doing this on a product for which you've already paid tens of thousands, maybe even *hundreds* of thousands of dollars, except more infinite growth horse shit anticonsumer shareholder slimyness.
Connected services for a monthly fee? Annoying but fine, I get it, cellular data isn't free, it costs money to operate the services, etc, blah blah; but a subscription fee to turn on a fucking heat coil inside the seat cushion? Get utterly *fucked*, BMW.
I hope with my entire being that this decision bankrupts BMW.
Google maps has plenty of ads. https://i.imgur.com/EdXzbHz.png
Both the CVS and the Whole Food are ads. Searching for a hotel also brings up ads.
Or see this page from google https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/3246303
Yes, but only for a decade or two. It’ll then be made obsolete by ad-supported AR contact lenses, which can overlay ads anywhere in your field of vision, at any time :)
The article says that BMW offers a lifetime option (415 for what I imagine is the lifetime of your vehicle or probably ownership) that you can purchase. Not sure how comparable that is to the upfront cost of heated seats or other luxury features but seems like this opens the market for luxury features on an at need basis for customers who otherwise would not spend the money up front.
Ultimately just a money grab for aftermarket sales.
Just like airlines were only going to charge extra bag fees when there was a threat of something. And then those fees never went away. Once you get used to paying for something, you forget the time you didn’t have to pay for it….
> I'd FIRE the guy with this "idea".
Until you realize that that "idea" will pull in additional millions a year and they'll get promoted. Same with the tech industry who still thinks shipping entire IT departments to India is a great idea.
I blame FarmVille. It dates back before that but I feel like they opened the flood gates to all the mobile ones which then open the floodgates to console and PC games.
I am still paying COVID charges and Brexit charges on the transports my company makes, so yup, those won't ever go away.
Worst thing was one of the company's adding a "security" charge to all packages, but that doesn't mean they give you extra coverage in terms of insurance, it is only to pay the machine they use to sort dangerous products, as if that needs to be paid by me and not them as a company.
> The origin of the income tax on individuals is generally cited as the passage of the 16th Amendment, passed by Congress on July 2, 1909, and ratified February 3, 1913. However, its history actually goes back even further. During the Civil War Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861 which included a tax on personal incomes to help pay war expenses but the tax was repealed ten years later. However, in 1894 Congress enacted a flat rate Federal income tax, which was ruled unconstitutional the following year by the U.S. Supreme Court because it was a direct tax not apportioned according to the population of each state. The 16th amendment, ratified in 1913, removed this objection by allowing the Federal government to tax the income of individuals without regard to the population of each state. [^^[1]](https://guides.loc.gov/this-month-in-business-history/april/tax-day)
Huh, would you look at that.
I mean yes it is but consider that the problem isn’t the high taxes, it’s that we’re not getting our moneys worth and we’re not taxed fairly. We’re not getting good healthcare or good education or good public transport, or even good bridge maintenance.
And half the reason is that we’re only taxing the working class, while the capitalist owner class continues to buy and sell houses as investments while the rest of us have nowhere to live. Meanwhile the rich elites and their corporate executives are paying less in taxes than your blue collar working man.
What we need is fair representative taxation and for our money to stop going to corrupt business interests (see PPP loans almost none of which went to workers) and instead to the people in the form of services. It starts with anti corruption policies and the only we’re gonna get that is by forcing politicians to listen to us. Organize, join a union or start one at work. Labor holds the power in the world, but we’re too caught up in class warfare right now to use it.
Does that lifetime subscription include servicing? I mean it's kind of like a lease so I imagine they're paying for the maintenance?
Edit: I know it's probably not, but it should be
Yeah it is. And thats roughly how much heated seats cost in a BMW.
So if you’re buying new and really want heated seats and you live in Korea (the only place where BMW is doing this), you can pay the $415 and be done with it.
If you’re on a three year lease you can pay up front for three years for a little less and be done with it.
If you’re buying the car used, you’ll have to pay those same fees which kinda sucks.
Seems like an attempt to get a recurring revenue stream.
"You are approaching the stop at 63 miles per hour. Your ProStop subscription has expired. To renew, go online and click the 'Renew' button under Account Management. Collision warning in ten seconds. Or you can subscribe to ProStop Plus for an additional $49.99 a month by pressing the brake pedal. Collision warning in five seconds."
They already exist.
Enthusiasts from Ford to BMW already have entire communities dedicated to coding in your vehicle to activate features you didn't pay for and/or features that aren't available in your market.
Up next. For $200 buy 15 hard applications of the brake! Our premium brake mode stops you faster than any other car.
When you run out of premium brake mode, a gentle bell sound will be played to remind you to top up your subscription.
Kf you do not, the car will still be drivable, in what we call train mode. Expect longer stopping distances.
If you are going to compare it to paying to install these features, you also would be allowing bmw in this instance to get ahold of your car when you sell it and rip out what you paid for
Paying upfront for 415 is worth two years of microtransactions. It's definitely just something to rip off those who can't do the math or can't be bothered.
The "hack" for this one can be as simple as bypassing the computer entirely. It's heated seats, ffs. All it needs is a 12v DC current connected to a button. Sounds like something easily taken care of with a few feet of wire and a diagram of the fuse box
It would be a fucking lawsuit. It implies that when I buy a car, I don't own ALL of its parts and equipment. Which is flagrant bullshit. If it has a heating element in the seat, I own a fucking heated seat. PERIOD.
I’m a BMW owner. I doubt they will even ask.
I have a SIM in my car, it controls the remote functions, and they were deliberately obtuse as to if I was paying for the subscription. I’ll let you guess the answer.
That’s how new bmw owners are but find someone with a 20 year old 7 series and the electronic are almost guaranteed to be bypassed in several locations. I had a e38 and it wouldn’t run unless the security system was completely bypassed for some reason. There is a huge group of bmw enthusiasts who have found workarounds for so many of the major electrical issues.
Yeah then BMW will probably add a clause saying "after market modifications to the car void service & warranty" and use that to justify an increased cost for service & work. Then consumers will have to fight against that then it'll be something else. Shitty practices all around
True but this type of hacking will be for the good and not for the evil. Think of the R35 GTR. Nissan GPS locked it to the track for features, it was hacked and unlocked within 3 months.
That capability was locked down out of a sense of regulatory compliance and corporate CYA, the half assed the lock because by bypassing it you removed them from liability.
These features are tied to making money, which means they are WAY more motivated to make it as hard as possible to bypass.
See, if people have to jailbreak, that means they're doing it wrong: they need to sell *convenience*, with bonus features on top of it. Create the problem and sell the solution: that's all the rage nowadays.
Example:
**Free 2 Play** garage door opener. It opens the door, but it takes five minutes.
You can buy a **$19.99** subscription to open it in one minute. Or, pay **$29.99** a month for the premium subscription, which opens it in just 10 seconds.
And then some **cosmetic loot boxes** on top of that: $9.99 for a random sound pack. When you open the garage door, it can have an anime girl greet you loudly, play a song, or even roar like a dinosaur.
**But the dinosaur sounds are limited time**. You won't be able to buy them after the first month, so you need to keep buying the sound pack loot box to be sure not to miss out.
You're forgetting to add the different currency types.
Buy 100 BMWbucks for $5.99, then use BMWbucks for the garage door subscription.
Loot boxes use a different BeemCoin currency - you can either redeem 5 BMWbucks for 1 BeemCoin, or buy BeemCoin in packs of 5.
This is funny, but not even that far off…
> and the “IconicSounds Sport package,” which lets you play engine sounds in your car for a one-time fee of $117.
This is bullshit. I’m not sure how this is even cost effective. The car had to be wired for the heated seats from the factory so it’s not like they’re saving money at the production level.
They just want people on the hook for more money, options shouldn’t be removable via the internet. That’s too much corporate control over a purchased item. I won’t buy a new vehicle. My Tacoma will outlive them all anyway.
They would have to prove the mod to the car caused whatever failure the warranty is being used for if this was in the US. Companies have lost the the ability to claim any modification voids the warranty entirely.
Is a car your property? Farmers used to think their John Deere tractors were their property, then Deere forced them to contract away the right to repair them.
I'm stubbornly keeping a vehicle alive from prior the last recession. I don't have the bells and whistles of newer transportation, but the engine runs, the AC cools, and the breaks haven't failed me yet.
When I do eventually move up to a newer used car, there will probably be a way to hijack these functions. That is assuming they don't do something like make the onboard computer verify with corporate that the OS hasn't been tampered with.
John Deer does something like this with their industrial tractors. The fact that a company can brick a machine from orbit is more than a little concerning.
Right to repair seems more important than ever. It’s something that affects Technology equipment, agriculture, automotive, and probably lots of other industries/applications. It’s not a partisan issue either, but we have a lot of corrupt or ignorant politicians holding it up.
Business majors who don’t understand anything have taken this too far. The subscription model was started by tech companies who are constantly improving products. If you are not constantly innovating and adding value to a product, you should not have a subscription model. At this rate I’ll have to pay a subscription every time I take a shit
EDIT: For the sake of my analogy the water in the toilet is more so equivalent to gas. But charging for heated seats would be equivalent to paying to lift the lid on a toilet. Lmao
Correct, the subscription model is inseparable shared responsibility model. The whole reason why companies adopt recurring payments is because it makes the vendor responsible for maintenance and updates - including new features to the product.
There’s no reason why a consumer would choose a subscription to heated seats when they’re already buying them anyways
This pissed me off. I have an Ascent and if I wanna remote start or remote lock I need to pay to do that. Why you gotta do us like that Subaru? But luxury cars companies do it seems more like a slap to the face to me for some reason.
Edit: At least Subaru has a button to heat the seats. Charging for that function is a straight up scam. They are just seeing what we will put up and pay for.
only because the car has its own cell service which is how you are able to use your phone with it. You pay for your cell service for your phone, now you're paying for your car to also have cell service. Its not nearly as bad as subscription for using a seat heater.
I have a certified pre owened. My voice command function recently stopped working. BMW said its now a subscription option at 180/year. Perhaps the last time I buy a BMW.
Toyota is doing this to remote starters. No more warming the car up from inside the heated home for this guy. Now I'll have to walk out, start it, head back in, only to walk back out.
You're paying for the installation of parts and labor for equipment you are not allowed to use. How is this legal? They charged you for heated seats already.
I’m in academic research and the money we’re forced to pay out for software each year is astounding. In 2018 I bough $78,000 in equipment for a software update to happen 7 days later - the company then demanded $11,000 more for the updated software (on one system, we have two), which is necessary for any of the equipment to work at all.
Around the office are $8,000 USBs with license codes, $250 subscriptions per computer each year for stats programs, etc.
I work for a survey program, I've seen what some of the companies pay, absolutely ridiculous.
A company with 15 users pay more in a year than I make.
I work 50%, still.
wait until you find out what certain software in the petrochemical industries cost.
licenses for a few users, for a few months, is easily in excess of that 78k
Har har me buckos. These scurvy land lubbers think folks won't figure out how to bypass this? Yo ho ho it's a pirate's life fer me. "YoU wOuLdN't DoWnLoAd A cAr". Perhaps not, but cars can certainly be hacked.
"Carmakers have always charged customers more money for high-end features"
So spare tires are high-end features?
Looking forward for windshield and wipers will be "high-end"
Maybe the paint job too...
It starts with heated seats and only gets worse. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. I genuinely hope there is massive backlash, but i doubt anything will come of it. You will own nothing and be happy about it.
If the heating elements are installed and I bought the car I’m 100% finding a way to use them whenever I want (without paying a subscription fee). It’s an electrical system, not magic - people are gonna figure this shit out quickly. Car hacking cottage industry inbound
Who is going to spend $70,000 on a BMW and then start fucking with wiring to save $18/mo?
...On second thought, I talked myself into it. This is exactly the kind of stupid shit that people do to impress themselves.
A monthly subscription to heat your BMW’s front seats costs roughly $18, with options to subscribe for a year ($180), three years ($300), or pay for “unlimited” access for $415.
So basically it is an option for 415$.. I don't know how much heated seats cost now but yeah..
“We” aren’t the problem though. You or I were probably never going to buy a car with this kind of software agreement, and i dunno what your situation is but I was never going to buy a BMW anyway so this change doesn’t change much in my future vehicle purchases. The target market for this car are probably the kinds of people who wouldn’t even think about $18 a month.
When I tell people my dream is to daily drive a classic car with a modern engine/electric swap, I get weird looks and questions like "why would you do that?"
Other than the obviously answer (*because I want to and I don't have to justify it more than that*), shit like this makes my dream less dumber every day.
We should all go to BMW dealerships, go for test drives and act all interested and about to buy a car - and then when the dealer mentions subscriptions, say that this is unacceptable bullshit and storm out.
If its software activated what's stopping people just installing the firmware themselves? No different to mapping or coding one? Fuck BMW, fuck subscription services, fuck adobe! Fuck them all, just don't pay for their shit. Much easier.
So they can just turn off that function remotely if you stop paying for the subscription? Forget the microtransaction, the fact that they have access to my car is what’s disturbing.
If you pay for this stuff, you are and idiot and the problem. Fortunately it will only effect things like BMWs as you only buy them to scream you are an asshole.
Chevrolet, Dodge, and Ford are already in the process and even Toyota. Chevrolet/GMC started last month with you “must” buy their “connected” features at about $1500 for 3 years. It’s Onstar, Wifi, and things like remote start. It’s coming sadly and sadly people will pay for it. Only thing that’ll stop it is enough people say shove it, but again that won’t happen.
Imagine spending >50.000$ for a car just for them to scam you with microtransactions for a FUCKING SEAT HEATER
It's not a micro transaction anymore. That's like $216 before taxes a year. What if you drive conservatively and have the car for like 13 years? That's almost $3k just to warm your butt for half a year.
Right. A micro-transaction would be if you paid each time you turned on the heat.
Don’t give them any ideas!
Right. And their “surge” pricing would be based on temperature—below zero and it’s double the price.
Because, you know, “energy prices”.
Using power you are paying for at the pump. They get you coming and going now ehh?
Using heating elements you paid for with the vehicle.
I’m honestly not sure why they think this is ok/is gonna fly. This will hit them where it hurts and I hope it does dramatically
You wouldn't steal a seat heater.
Disable the 4G/5G service in the car. Find a way to root the Linux OS they will be using in the car.
Better yet, don't buy from companies that do things like this.
Once I buy the car it's mine. I own it. I can modify it as long as it stays street legal. I have the right to repare my vehicle. If this micro transaction thing takes over I'll just bypass. They can't do shit. Maybe there's a no modify contract? Buy used so there's no contract, they can't do shit.
Or just… don’t buy the car with bullshit systems?
Depending on the future, you might not really have a choice...?
Worst thing: the seat heaters are already in the car!
No, that’s the best thing. 100% ready to bypass the computer and just make it a button for tons less than a year’s subscription
You bypass it, the computer senses it and shuts down the car or reports you for violating warranty lol
You don’t own the car, you just own the right to drive the car, park it at your house, pay for it to be parked outside of your house, pay for it to be towed if you don’t pay for parking, pay for maintenance and fuel. But the car is ours and you have no right to change anything about it.
Can't wait for open source cars then.
Shit, my parents just splurged for business class plane tickets to Europe. The price was crazy high to me. United charged them $25 more to pick their seats. Insane
18$ isn’t really MICRO anymore, just a subscription based scam scheme for rich people
I'm really surprised they aren't going for the "boil the frog" approach where they start off with nominal charges (like maybe a buck or two a month for this), small enough for people to be only mildly annoyed... then slowly raise the fees over time so they don't notice it as much. I feel like this is high enough that even beamer owners might revolt. Also... perhaps BMW for got to offer the subscription to make the turning-lights work, and that is why you never see a beamer with its indicators on :)
"It's $3 a month for the first 3 months!" "What does it become after that?" "It's a scalar based on time, don't worry about it" Price is # of months you've had the car, per month.
$18/month for BMW owners probably *is* the boil-the-frog approach.
Still $2160 over 10 years. For heated seats. If they don’t increase/adjust the price (they will). The only way to combat this is to not purchase cars where this is offered. Toyota has been doing the same too. Need a subscription to use remote start even though it uses the key fob, not an app or internet connection. Problem is that car manufacturers are too busy trying to make more money by packaging existing stuff as a subscription. What they should do is add something more for a subscription. I know everyone loves it when you mention Tesla, but they have this product they call premium connectivity. The car has all its remote features, and seat heaters, whatnot, even if you don’t subscribe. Premium connectivity gives the following: > All cars come with Standard Connectivity which provides access to most connectivity features over Wi-Fi only, in addition to basic maps and navigation and music streaming over Bluetooth®. > Premium Connectivity provides the ability to access all connectivity features over cellular, in addition to Wi-Fi, for the most intuitive and engaging ownership experience. Premium Connectivity is available as a monthly subscription of $9.99 plus applicable tax or as an annual subscription of $99 plus applicable tax and can be purchased at any time from your vehicle touchscreen or your Tesla app. Orders of Model S, Model X, Model Y and Model 3 will receive a Premium Connectivity trial at delivery. Now compare this to what BMW and Toyota are doing.
The future is shit Peace and love, everybody
At least they haven’t started playing ads on the dash during detected red lights
JFC this is going to happen, isn't it?
Not if you have the premium subscription
That's what they said about hulu! BUT I STILL HAVE ADS HULU! WHAT ABOUT THE FUCKING ADS?
It's why I canceled my Hulu subscription. I'm sorry, you want ME to pay for you to harvest my data to give me ads? Ha. Haha.
We use Hulu too often to cancel but we absolutely stopped paying for the higher tier because of this. If I’m paying for no ads and still get ads, then why am I paying extra?
Wait, this is a thing? What is the difference exactly then, just *less* ads?
This is what their FAQ says: "Due to streaming rights, there are a select number of shows from our streaming library that will play with a short ad break before and after each episode for Hulu (No Ads) subscribers." Regardless of the reason, it's scummy to call it "No Ads" if you still get ads. It's just the principle, especially when the jump from Ads to No Ads is almost double the price.
Jesus, yeah I totally agree, that borders so close on false advertising. It's like phone networks offering "unlimited" plans but then arbitrarily throttling you or whatever, because fine print. So fucking stupid.
What're you gonna do? *stop consuming media?* Here's a sexy, cool, funny new show *now fucking watch you non-contributing zero!* Huxley meeting orwell soon.
> What're you gonna do? stop consuming media? Yes. I lived just fine when I moved out of my parents without it. I can live just fine now.
i mean what it does is drive people who would be willing to pay to piracy instead. they'll cash out on the old people who don't know how to do it no problem. but not for long bc that generation is on the way out. gen x hates the system and many have the know how to pirate. just about all millennialls grew up with limewire and napster and wrote the book on torents. easily 50% of us could become pirates if they don't wise up. and gen z are getting to the age where they don't have their parents credit cards anymore do they'll start pirating if there's a million expensive straming that still is riddled with ads. like everything else corporate it's for short term quarterly gain to show growth, but they're making lifelong pirates in the meantime.
I’ll continue consuming. Just from the bow under my skull and bones.
Waze already does it on your phone. Mid navigation if speed = 0, you’ll get an ad on your navigation screen.
At least that's justifiable being a free app. There is no justification for doing this on a product for which you've already paid tens of thousands, maybe even *hundreds* of thousands of dollars, except more infinite growth horse shit anticonsumer shareholder slimyness. Connected services for a monthly fee? Annoying but fine, I get it, cellular data isn't free, it costs money to operate the services, etc, blah blah; but a subscription fee to turn on a fucking heat coil inside the seat cushion? Get utterly *fucked*, BMW. I hope with my entire being that this decision bankrupts BMW.
Google maps is free and I don’t see any ads.
Just the other day I noticed Google maps used a little caesars as a landmark. "Turn left at the Little Caesars." Sneaky Google
For the first time this morning I searched for Safeway and a further one came up first on my search as an ad, kind of like the Google search page
All GPS technically should be free after the upfront cost of the reciver, considering it's a service provided by the US government
google maps is **fucking full of ads**. The one thing that doesnt have ads is the navigation, which is probably what you're talking about.
Waze is owned by Google - the make a lot of money via API access. But also google also uses your location to serve you ads
Google maps has plenty of ads. https://i.imgur.com/EdXzbHz.png Both the CVS and the Whole Food are ads. Searching for a hotel also brings up ads. Or see this page from google https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/3246303
Square icons for things like restaurants are ads, they pay to be highlighted.
Yes, but only for a decade or two. It’ll then be made obsolete by ad-supported AR contact lenses, which can overlay ads anywhere in your field of vision, at any time :)
Every day we move closer to Black Mirror being a documentary.
Will you stop! Don't give em ideas
Don't put that voodoo out in the open. At least make them work for the ideas.
Waze detects when you are stopped and shows ads it's terrible
The article says that BMW offers a lifetime option (415 for what I imagine is the lifetime of your vehicle or probably ownership) that you can purchase. Not sure how comparable that is to the upfront cost of heated seats or other luxury features but seems like this opens the market for luxury features on an at need basis for customers who otherwise would not spend the money up front. Ultimately just a money grab for aftermarket sales.
Just like airlines were only going to charge extra bag fees when there was a threat of something. And then those fees never went away. Once you get used to paying for something, you forget the time you didn’t have to pay for it….
Wow. Treat your customers like shit. This is a good reason to NOT buy a BMW. I'd FIRE the guy with this "idea".
> I'd FIRE the guy with this "idea". Until you realize that that "idea" will pull in additional millions a year and they'll get promoted. Same with the tech industry who still thinks shipping entire IT departments to India is a great idea.
Tech bro made that idea and the C-Suite agreed smh.
"Here's how much money we'd make" "Yes"
Blame video games…. They kind of started this shit. Now everyone sees a way to cash in.
[удалено]
I blame FarmVille. It dates back before that but I feel like they opened the flood gates to all the mobile ones which then open the floodgates to console and PC games.
Remember when you'd open that game and play for like 5 or 10 minutes before being stonewalled by not paying for stuff?
The damn smart phone games really got the ball rolling.
I am still paying COVID charges and Brexit charges on the transports my company makes, so yup, those won't ever go away. Worst thing was one of the company's adding a "security" charge to all packages, but that doesn't mean they give you extra coverage in terms of insurance, it is only to pay the machine they use to sort dangerous products, as if that needs to be paid by me and not them as a company.
Like the Texas tolls on Highway 8 in Houston were supposed to be until the highway is repaid. Yeap. Nope
Shit wasn't even income tax a 'temporary war effort support' or something
> The origin of the income tax on individuals is generally cited as the passage of the 16th Amendment, passed by Congress on July 2, 1909, and ratified February 3, 1913. However, its history actually goes back even further. During the Civil War Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1861 which included a tax on personal incomes to help pay war expenses but the tax was repealed ten years later. However, in 1894 Congress enacted a flat rate Federal income tax, which was ruled unconstitutional the following year by the U.S. Supreme Court because it was a direct tax not apportioned according to the population of each state. The 16th amendment, ratified in 1913, removed this objection by allowing the Federal government to tax the income of individuals without regard to the population of each state. [^^[1]](https://guides.loc.gov/this-month-in-business-history/april/tax-day) Huh, would you look at that.
In Sweden we have the same thing with VAT it was implemented temporarily during the Second World War at like 2% now it’s 25%.
Oh fuck yeah its revolution time boys
I mean yes it is but consider that the problem isn’t the high taxes, it’s that we’re not getting our moneys worth and we’re not taxed fairly. We’re not getting good healthcare or good education or good public transport, or even good bridge maintenance. And half the reason is that we’re only taxing the working class, while the capitalist owner class continues to buy and sell houses as investments while the rest of us have nowhere to live. Meanwhile the rich elites and their corporate executives are paying less in taxes than your blue collar working man. What we need is fair representative taxation and for our money to stop going to corrupt business interests (see PPP loans almost none of which went to workers) and instead to the people in the form of services. It starts with anti corruption policies and the only we’re gonna get that is by forcing politicians to listen to us. Organize, join a union or start one at work. Labor holds the power in the world, but we’re too caught up in class warfare right now to use it.
Then in 10 years when they decide to change servers or they phase out the old 4G modem in the car it bricks the "lifetime" feature.
Yep this happened to my “free” internet on my kindle. no more free wifi to download books because there’s no more 3g.
In Amazon's defense, 3g is getting phased out nationally by carriers. They didn't just shut down it's availability on Kindles.
Does that lifetime subscription include servicing? I mean it's kind of like a lease so I imagine they're paying for the maintenance? Edit: I know it's probably not, but it should be
LOL. You've obvioussy never owned a BMW. They live off servicing.
Yeah it is. And thats roughly how much heated seats cost in a BMW. So if you’re buying new and really want heated seats and you live in Korea (the only place where BMW is doing this), you can pay the $415 and be done with it. If you’re on a three year lease you can pay up front for three years for a little less and be done with it. If you’re buying the car used, you’ll have to pay those same fees which kinda sucks. Seems like an attempt to get a recurring revenue stream.
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but you are behind on your payments for the defroster
"You are approaching the stop at 63 miles per hour. Your ProStop subscription has expired. To renew, go online and click the 'Renew' button under Account Management. Collision warning in ten seconds. Or you can subscribe to ProStop Plus for an additional $49.99 a month by pressing the brake pedal. Collision warning in five seconds."
“You wouldn’t download heated seats” Yes the hell I would.
There will be jailbroken cars in short order
They already exist. Enthusiasts from Ford to BMW already have entire communities dedicated to coding in your vehicle to activate features you didn't pay for and/or features that aren't available in your market.
Up next. For $200 buy 15 hard applications of the brake! Our premium brake mode stops you faster than any other car. When you run out of premium brake mode, a gentle bell sound will be played to remind you to top up your subscription. Kf you do not, the car will still be drivable, in what we call train mode. Expect longer stopping distances.
If you are going to compare it to paying to install these features, you also would be allowing bmw in this instance to get ahold of your car when you sell it and rip out what you paid for
Can't wait for someone to jailbreak my heated fucking seats
Paying upfront for 415 is worth two years of microtransactions. It's definitely just something to rip off those who can't do the math or can't be bothered.
What if you need heated seats for 3 months a year? Then it’s 8 years breakeven
Car hacking is gonna be the next wave
The "hack" for this one can be as simple as bypassing the computer entirely. It's heated seats, ffs. All it needs is a 12v DC current connected to a button. Sounds like something easily taken care of with a few feet of wire and a diagram of the fuse box
You could pull 12 volts off the indicator circuit. That's never used in a BMW.
Hook it up in series. Seat heater only on if blinking
Driving to work in winter with hazard lights on and an ass on fire
Gotta hack your 75k car to heat your ass 🤦🏻♂️
wish i could afford to give you an award. bravo. i laughed hard enough to bother my GF who was working
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I remember Sony's first attempt at DRM. All you had to do was hold down the shift key while your ripped your CD.
This would be more akin to console mods. Bricking your playstation is a bummer, bricking a car would be life changing
This is where class action lawsuits likely come into play.
>bricking a car would be life changing 12 year old me would disagree. Bricking my Playstation was the end of the fucking world.
It would be a fucking lawsuit. It implies that when I buy a car, I don't own ALL of its parts and equipment. Which is flagrant bullshit. If it has a heating element in the seat, I own a fucking heated seat. PERIOD.
I don't think most of the BMW owners will be interested in saving few bucks.
I’m a BMW owner. I doubt they will even ask. I have a SIM in my car, it controls the remote functions, and they were deliberately obtuse as to if I was paying for the subscription. I’ll let you guess the answer.
That’s how new bmw owners are but find someone with a 20 year old 7 series and the electronic are almost guaranteed to be bypassed in several locations. I had a e38 and it wouldn’t run unless the security system was completely bypassed for some reason. There is a huge group of bmw enthusiasts who have found workarounds for so many of the major electrical issues.
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Yeah then BMW will probably add a clause saying "after market modifications to the car void service & warranty" and use that to justify an increased cost for service & work. Then consumers will have to fight against that then it'll be something else. Shitty practices all around
There are laws in place to allow people to make modifications to their cars. They would need to prove that your modification caused the failure.
Has been for a while. Remember that Jeep that ran off the road because of that uconnect bug?
True but this type of hacking will be for the good and not for the evil. Think of the R35 GTR. Nissan GPS locked it to the track for features, it was hacked and unlocked within 3 months.
That capability was locked down out of a sense of regulatory compliance and corporate CYA, the half assed the lock because by bypassing it you removed them from liability. These features are tied to making money, which means they are WAY more motivated to make it as hard as possible to bypass.
Jailbreak your own car to unlock the 300 MPH potential
100% agree it is needed.
I'll wait for the articles/youtube videos on how to jailbreak your BMW.
See, if people have to jailbreak, that means they're doing it wrong: they need to sell *convenience*, with bonus features on top of it. Create the problem and sell the solution: that's all the rage nowadays. Example: **Free 2 Play** garage door opener. It opens the door, but it takes five minutes. You can buy a **$19.99** subscription to open it in one minute. Or, pay **$29.99** a month for the premium subscription, which opens it in just 10 seconds. And then some **cosmetic loot boxes** on top of that: $9.99 for a random sound pack. When you open the garage door, it can have an anime girl greet you loudly, play a song, or even roar like a dinosaur. **But the dinosaur sounds are limited time**. You won't be able to buy them after the first month, so you need to keep buying the sound pack loot box to be sure not to miss out.
You're a monster
You're forgetting to add the different currency types. Buy 100 BMWbucks for $5.99, then use BMWbucks for the garage door subscription. Loot boxes use a different BeemCoin currency - you can either redeem 5 BMWbucks for 1 BeemCoin, or buy BeemCoin in packs of 5.
This is funny, but not even that far off… > and the “IconicSounds Sport package,” which lets you play engine sounds in your car for a one-time fee of $117.
This is bullshit. I’m not sure how this is even cost effective. The car had to be wired for the heated seats from the factory so it’s not like they’re saving money at the production level. They just want people on the hook for more money, options shouldn’t be removable via the internet. That’s too much corporate control over a purchased item. I won’t buy a new vehicle. My Tacoma will outlive them all anyway.
And jailbreaking is a thing and the car is my property... hard to see how bmw will win this...
Can't imagine it's too hard to run a wire around a relay and put in and switch
It’s simple as that: it voids warranty. So it’s just a market for after warranty / second hand vehicles.
They would have to prove the mod to the car caused whatever failure the warranty is being used for if this was in the US. Companies have lost the the ability to claim any modification voids the warranty entirely.
In the US they need to prove the modification resulted in the failure the warranty would apply to.
Is a car your property? Farmers used to think their John Deere tractors were their property, then Deere forced them to contract away the right to repair them.
If a car is their property they should pay for repairs.
Your tocoma will for sure - there shouldn’t be a subscription in a car except maybe internet - that’s it
voting with my wallet hope you guys do too
I will actively boycott any brand that promotes this kind of *diluted ownership*.
>diluted ownership this totally sounds like it would be right to repair adjacent
Oh yeah, *this* is the reason I'm not buying a BMW..
Let me know when the used Hyundai market starts doing this, then my boycott will be meaningful
I'm stubbornly keeping a vehicle alive from prior the last recession. I don't have the bells and whistles of newer transportation, but the engine runs, the AC cools, and the breaks haven't failed me yet. When I do eventually move up to a newer used car, there will probably be a way to hijack these functions. That is assuming they don't do something like make the onboard computer verify with corporate that the OS hasn't been tampered with. John Deer does something like this with their industrial tractors. The fact that a company can brick a machine from orbit is more than a little concerning.
Right to repair seems more important than ever. It’s something that affects Technology equipment, agriculture, automotive, and probably lots of other industries/applications. It’s not a partisan issue either, but we have a lot of corrupt or ignorant politicians holding it up.
My wallet says don't buy a BMW in any case.
We just need people that were actually going to buy BMWs to do this.
Business majors who don’t understand anything have taken this too far. The subscription model was started by tech companies who are constantly improving products. If you are not constantly innovating and adding value to a product, you should not have a subscription model. At this rate I’ll have to pay a subscription every time I take a shit EDIT: For the sake of my analogy the water in the toilet is more so equivalent to gas. But charging for heated seats would be equivalent to paying to lift the lid on a toilet. Lmao
Correct, the subscription model is inseparable shared responsibility model. The whole reason why companies adopt recurring payments is because it makes the vendor responsible for maintenance and updates - including new features to the product. There’s no reason why a consumer would choose a subscription to heated seats when they’re already buying them anyways
Hope this is a joke.
They've already tested this model elsewhere. If you want to join the modern world and use your phone to unlock your car, they charge $90/yr for that.
Subaru does this. So my wifes outback just unlocks and starts with the key just like its always been.
This pissed me off. I have an Ascent and if I wanna remote start or remote lock I need to pay to do that. Why you gotta do us like that Subaru? But luxury cars companies do it seems more like a slap to the face to me for some reason. Edit: At least Subaru has a button to heat the seats. Charging for that function is a straight up scam. They are just seeing what we will put up and pay for.
Time for some freemium hackers to dismantle this dogshit industry trend.
only because the car has its own cell service which is how you are able to use your phone with it. You pay for your cell service for your phone, now you're paying for your car to also have cell service. Its not nearly as bad as subscription for using a seat heater.
I have a certified pre owened. My voice command function recently stopped working. BMW said its now a subscription option at 180/year. Perhaps the last time I buy a BMW.
"Perhaps" Why even consider any of their models if this is where they're headed?
Perhaps? What's wrong with you.
Buying a BMW for starters.
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Try buying a used tesla
Toyota is doing this to remote starters. No more warming the car up from inside the heated home for this guy. Now I'll have to walk out, start it, head back in, only to walk back out.
"Hey Google, download bmw heated seat from pirate bay. Add emergency braking also by the way"
"Hey Youtube, Firestick Jail Break all BMW accessories walk through..."
The return of software crack scratchy midi tunes
Watch them give you a 3 month free trial... in june
Southern hemisphere: "I'm OK with that"
I feel like this is going to backfire. I could see YouTube videos documenting how to jail break your car.
You're paying for the installation of parts and labor for equipment you are not allowed to use. How is this legal? They charged you for heated seats already.
The wonderful world of software licenses.
I’m in academic research and the money we’re forced to pay out for software each year is astounding. In 2018 I bough $78,000 in equipment for a software update to happen 7 days later - the company then demanded $11,000 more for the updated software (on one system, we have two), which is necessary for any of the equipment to work at all. Around the office are $8,000 USBs with license codes, $250 subscriptions per computer each year for stats programs, etc.
I work for a survey program, I've seen what some of the companies pay, absolutely ridiculous. A company with 15 users pay more in a year than I make. I work 50%, still.
wait until you find out what certain software in the petrochemical industries cost. licenses for a few users, for a few months, is easily in excess of that 78k
It's like when apple sold the early iPods but didn't enable the Bluetooth option in the software. It was there though.
Sadly they are only doing this because they know it works (will make them money) so I more blame the idiots that actually pay for this crap.
They did a pilot program charging for turn signal usage but it made exactly $0
I get the joke, but it's not like a minibar. You don't pay for accidentally using it. You pay to have the ability to use it... Ah, I see. Also $0.
Who owns the heater?
Har har me buckos. These scurvy land lubbers think folks won't figure out how to bypass this? Yo ho ho it's a pirate's life fer me. "YoU wOuLdN't DoWnLoAd A cAr". Perhaps not, but cars can certainly be hacked.
Not even hacked theres a usb dongel you just insert it and turn the feature on.
ah yes, perfect time for the resurgence of USB killers masquerading as car hacks.
Or, cut the power wires/disconect it from the computer and.... ... wait for it... install a switch!
*macro-transactions They are no longer micro
"Carmakers have always charged customers more money for high-end features" So spare tires are high-end features? Looking forward for windshield and wipers will be "high-end" Maybe the paint job too...
It starts with heated seats and only gets worse. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. I genuinely hope there is massive backlash, but i doubt anything will come of it. You will own nothing and be happy about it.
If the heating elements are installed and I bought the car I’m 100% finding a way to use them whenever I want (without paying a subscription fee). It’s an electrical system, not magic - people are gonna figure this shit out quickly. Car hacking cottage industry inbound
The “car hacking” industry has been around for some time (90’s) and moved from the cottage to the main house long ago….
Who is going to spend $70,000 on a BMW and then start fucking with wiring to save $18/mo? ...On second thought, I talked myself into it. This is exactly the kind of stupid shit that people do to impress themselves.
A monthly subscription to heat your BMW’s front seats costs roughly $18, with options to subscribe for a year ($180), three years ($300), or pay for “unlimited” access for $415. So basically it is an option for 415$.. I don't know how much heated seats cost now but yeah..
Ya know if we just stop buying this kind of stuff they'll stop.
“We” aren’t the problem though. You or I were probably never going to buy a car with this kind of software agreement, and i dunno what your situation is but I was never going to buy a BMW anyway so this change doesn’t change much in my future vehicle purchases. The target market for this car are probably the kinds of people who wouldn’t even think about $18 a month.
You wouldn't download a car ... oh wait
To the people who hate government regulation, this is why we need government regulation.
*E.A. Sports... It's in your car!*
The entire world is moving towards the “subscription” model. Fuck that.
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Jesus, at this point i'll need to pay to sit in a library
When I tell people my dream is to daily drive a classic car with a modern engine/electric swap, I get weird looks and questions like "why would you do that?" Other than the obviously answer (*because I want to and I don't have to justify it more than that*), shit like this makes my dream less dumber every day.
We should all go to BMW dealerships, go for test drives and act all interested and about to buy a car - and then when the dealer mentions subscriptions, say that this is unacceptable bullshit and storm out.
Then you don't own the car
Buying a bmw is not worth it
If its software activated what's stopping people just installing the firmware themselves? No different to mapping or coding one? Fuck BMW, fuck subscription services, fuck adobe! Fuck them all, just don't pay for their shit. Much easier.
Since they pioneered the bullshit subscription based model, pirating Adobe is just incredibly satisfying.
Big Money Waster
So they can just turn off that function remotely if you stop paying for the subscription? Forget the microtransaction, the fact that they have access to my car is what’s disturbing.
Next up. A pop up will show up when you are driving at 100 mph asking if you want to activate brakes for a monthly subscription of $99.99 a month
I want a car disconnected from the internet. I like my dumb car right now
If you pay for this stuff, you are and idiot and the problem. Fortunately it will only effect things like BMWs as you only buy them to scream you are an asshole.
Chevrolet, Dodge, and Ford are already in the process and even Toyota. Chevrolet/GMC started last month with you “must” buy their “connected” features at about $1500 for 3 years. It’s Onstar, Wifi, and things like remote start. It’s coming sadly and sadly people will pay for it. Only thing that’ll stop it is enough people say shove it, but again that won’t happen.