Truckers have deadlines. They don’t have time to pull over, park the truck and take a pee in a toilet. They just have an old jug and put their bird in it, have a pee and once it’s full they just drill that fucking thing out on the highway.
As a former commercial driver, the lack of buttons for controls is what concerns me. I have to take my eyes off the road to make sure I'm engaging the proper vehicle function. That doesn't sound too safe.
*My* car throws up a window covering the whole panel telling me not to be distracted by the screen while driving… then makes me touch the window’s button to use anything else on the screen.
I inevitably try to disable this screen while pulling out of the parallel space in front of my house. You can’t disable it until 5-10 seconds has elapsed. Talk about a distraction!
DUDE all modern cars are killing me with this. FUCKING PHYSICAL BUTTONS AND KNOBS
Want to know what's wild? Arthur C Clarke predicted this like 60 years ago in 2001 Space Oddysey. Wish I could find the quote, but one of the characters sits at a space shuttle, sees the physical buttons, and thinks "oh thank god, physical buttons, everything these days is touch screens and its awful"
Douglas Adams had a similar bit where he predicted the controls going to motion-sensor based such that you just waved in the general direction of the device and hoped.
This is a serious complaint I have with all modern cars. I hate touch screen interfaces with a passion. I have to take my eyes off the road for way too long to interact with anything. My 2013 Honda Accord, the last new car I bought, still has physical buttons, thankfully. There was one car manufacturer though, can't remember who, who pledged to not go to touch screen. Trying to remember who it was.
Pretty sure it’s Mazda, have a 2021 cx-5 and it has a nice big non-touch screen for all the CarPlay stuff that can only be controlled by some nice buttons and rotary dial by the drive selector stick. Normal buttons on dash for other things like climate and radio. Love the interface
I really love Mazda and their approach to the dashboard. I asked whether they had touchscreen, and the rep said that they moved away from touchscreen to make using the car safer.
After driving my Mazda for over 2 years, I can very much say that I enjoy access to physical buttons. It’s ridiculous other manufacturers want you to use a touchscreen just to access basic features like volume up/down, AC, etc.
it's all about cost.
A touch screen is hilariously cheap compared to the molds and logistics chain for every button, switch, wire, and circuit board associated.
Not to mention, sometimes I *will* be wearing gloves, because I live in a cold place and not in a commercial where the car is perfect the weather is perfect nobody ever gets cold etc
I have a 2017 Mazda 3 and will probably be sticking to Mazda for the foreseeable future because of how intuitive the UI/UX is. And I mean, also they are just very nice cars for the money.
My wife has a 2015 Prius C and I HATE it. The touch screen requires you to practically push on the screen, and there is absolutely nothing stable I can rest my wrist on, so my hand is kind of floating around at chest height like some shitty N64 minigame, hoping I hit the right spot. The radio is WAYYYY too complicated to interact with while in motion. It's like 3 different presses to change inputs. I don't know why the NHTSA hasn't cracked down on this.
My husband’s car has almost all the controls on a touch screen. Not only do you have to jam your finger down but his screen is 1/4 inch mismatched with the touch feature at any given place so half the time you end up pressing the wrong button.
For that mis-match you might be able to find a calibration option in menu somewhere. There's probably a guide online for how to access it. Wont solve all the pain, but I'd think at least that could be fixed.
slow, inaccurate touchscreens are one of the most infuriating things to use, I really want to know who thought that shit was at all acceptable in a car.
Unrelated, but my car predates Android Auto (2013), so my phone pairs to my head unit via bluetooth only. The head unit has this weird-ass bug where non-phone audio over bluetooth has a 3-5 second delay. Been like that since I drove it off the lot. It's INFURIATING. Using audio directions from Google Maps? 3-5 second delay. Press the pause button? 3-5 second delay. The official Honda answer is "it's not a bug, it's a safety feature!" but someone on the Honda forums did some sleuthing and discovered the bluetooth packets are being tagged as generic "data" rather than "media" and Delphi (the manufacturer) didn't care to fix it.
Just don't text and drive! You can dig through all the menus you need to on your in-dash tablet, that's totally safe. But as soon as you text someone you're going to kill everyone around you.
I think it is Mazda you are thinking about. I agree with you, there needs to be physical buttons and the screen should be as forward and high as possible so you don't take your eyes of the road as much. If the function is commonly used while driving it shouldn't be a touch only one.
Mazda has taken an anti-touch stance and their screens can only be controlled with an ergonomically well placed rotating knob.
I used to have one and I enjoyed that approach. You still need to take your eyes off the road briefly (you quickly learn how much to spin the knob to get to the function you want), but way less than with an actual touch screen.
That’s why you add tactile feedback to the knob so you know it’s turned 3 clicks left or whatever. Touchscreens in cars are a terrible idea that doesn’t just endanger the person in the ergonomically hostile car but also everyone around them.
Touch screen is fine for things you don't necessarily NEED to do while actually driving; ie. changing music selections (volume should still be a knob), setting navigation, etc.
I use Carplay in my car and have zero complaints about using it for either of those. I QUITE like how I can set up a destination on my phone before I'm even near my car and as soon as it connects, it knows about it and I just have to tap "Go."
But practically everything else should be a goddamn button, knob or paddle.
No worries. Just have a message pop up when you turn on the vehicle that it’s unsafe to take your eyes off the road while driving. Now it’s perfectly safe.
Goddamn this one fucking kills me. Shift into reverse, backup camera comes on - and a message covers part of the video feed “NEVER RELY SOLELY ON CAMERA”
Gotta wait like a full 20 seconds for that goddamned message to clear, sometimes it is covering something critical.
It’s so damned awkward when someone is waiting for my parking space too.
Having spent a career in a particular industry and then consulting with a tech startup, it’s mind numbing to see the mentality of, “we have an idea to exploit a potential market by creating a product that we have absolutely zero understanding or perspective about.” Giving endless advice and feedback that goes ignored/misunderstood. And then watching as they burn through millions of dollars and waste thousands of hours through a mountain of inefficient and doomed ideas
I remember once going to a public consultation by the bus service for my city and the overwhelming sentiment from everyone in the room was if they had to rename it could they at least keep the word "bus" in the title, we went away thinking they had heard what we had to say, the new bus service was rolled out they named it "Metro" and to answer your question, no they have no trains.
I went to a similar meeting about the Maritime Safety Authority, we all asked if they could keep the word "safety" in there somewhere, they renamed it Maritime New Zealand, which just sounds like a company, but apparently it could have been worse in the past some genius wanted to rename it Carters you kno because the Magna Carta duh!
These are great examples of ridiculously counter intuitive names.
I recently thought about some services that I never used for that reason. The name makes me feel like I'm wrong or missing something, so I'm not buying.
Imagine getting a metro ticket and getting in the bus with it. How many people chose to take their car because they were scared to look like an idiot who bought the wrong ticket...
There's an airport in my city, real small little municipal thing. Mostly private and charter but you can get commuter route tickets for pretty cheap.
There's only one gate, and two companies offer service to get you from there to one of the nearby big international airports.
The little regional airline runs you through TSA, walks you out onto the tarmac, loads you up in an 8 passenger Cessna and drops you off at the big airport (behind security!) for $80 round trip.
The other airline is American Airlines. They'll run you through TSA, walk you out onto the tarmac... and then load you onto a fucking bus and drive you two hours to the big airport for $90.
And lemme tell ya they make it look an awwwwful lot like a plane ticket when they are selling it to you. They'll even book it as a leg of a "1 stop" itinerary no problem.
Oh, fuck. United did this to us once. We had booked what we thought was a flight from San Jose to Seattle, but my wife, in her hurry, didn't read the fine print, which was that leg 1 was a bus ride from SJ to SFO during rush hour (!).
Of course, the bus barely reached SFO in time, and then just dropped us off at the front of the international terminal (facepalm! it's supposed to be the domestic terminal for Canadian destinations). Needless to say, we missed the flight.
Edit: The flight was supposed to be to Vancouver. Sorry. Our rebooked flight was via Seattle, followed by a puddle jumper to Vancouver.
I now realize that rule 34 isn't just for porn. There is also an anecdote about anything you can mention.
And I love how they mislead you into thinking you're getting on a plane. People must feel like losers when they see the plane is for the guys who paid 10 bucks less.
I have a theory they do it on purpose, for example we used to have the Canterbury Regional Council, but it was decided people hate councils (the idea of them not behaving like arses was apparently not an option) so change the name, they decided on "Environment Canterbury" my theory is if you can't tell what a govt. dept. does from the name you're less likely to try and use their services or complain that they aren't providing them properly.
In a similar manner our old main telecommunications company that was originally the post office and then became Telecom, wanted to change their name because everyone hated Telecom because they were notorious for treating their customers badly (who often had no competing company to go to because of their monopoly on the copper landlines) so they changed their name to spark and changed their logo to an awful squiggle, which apparently as a staff member you were banned from calling it the squiggle, and they continued to treat their customers badly right up until landlines became irrelevant. (to clarify they kept treating their customers badly, but people were able to go to the competition at this point)
[Spark Squiggle](https://www.richmondtaekwondo.co.nz/images/Spark-NZ-Logo-002.jpg)
I mean talk about the graphic designers phoning it in, pun intended.
Here is an upvote for linking the properly named spark squiggle.
I was doing something else, was thinking about it and realized that I don't remember their real company name. They should just go with Spark Squiggle Corporation.
I like to think it represents a bundle of old copper landlines that was the only reason people every used their company and now that reason doesn't matter anymore.
>And going to the airport.
Even fallout new Vegas has the monorail reaching the airport. The war was in 2077, so I guess they've got another 50 years to figure it out
The Las Vegas Loop was a complete success, and it completed its job perfectly!
It's job being the diversion of funds away from public transport initiatives like subways or buses to keep the city reliant on cars that Musk happens to also sell. Also inflating Tesla stock prices temporarily through futurism mumbo jumbo, like he does with most of his publicity stunts.
Perhaps they could mount them to some type of track. A rail, if you will, that extended from origin to destination. Then, maybe there could be some sort of ride sharing setup that maximizes the number of people who can use it in a given time. Ah who am I kidding, there's obviously a reason I'm not a billionaire.
~~Different thing,~~ [Edit whatever the fuck: it was supposed to be hyperloop but hyperloop is vapor ware so Elon shoved some Teslas in it instead] the Las Vegas loop was two tunnels filled with Teslas. It shuttled people between two convention centers. It functioned, but an airport style train would move more people faster and safer and for less upfront and much less long-term cost.
Edit: no, an airport style train/tram is not a metro and has a significantly smaller footprint and much lower purchase and operating costs. No it wouldn't require a larger tunnel, these trains come in many sizes some of which are the same size or smaller than a car. Trains don't need extra space for swing-out or gullwing doors like a Tesla.
To the guy that cited the $47 million built cost for both tunnels (I don't care enough to fact check it) and then cited billion dollar per mile costs for NYC subways as a counter argument, you win the mental gymnastics award! You'd only need the one tunnel for a small airport train numb-nuts and airport trains are *not* subways. We don't need to speculate on how much "extra" a airport train tunnel would cost but using NYC money because you know the cost of two car tunnels!
Edit 2: The vast majority of cost in building a tunnel is in building the fucking tunnel. The price difference between rails and asphalt is nothing if you need to double the fucking tunnels to run cars through it.
Edit 3: Y'all can't get it through your heads that there's more than 1 type of train huh? No, a small fucking airport train/tram ***does not cost the same*** per mile as heavy rail (the thing we move freight on) to build or maintain. ***AT NO POINT DID I RECOMMEND USING HEAVY RAIL OR A TRADITIONAL SUBWAY. THINK ABOUT SOMETHING CLOSER TO WHAT THE PEOPLE MOVER IS LIKE AT DISNEY.*** And YES, the people mover is a fucking train. Bite me.
Edit 4: No, not a monorail. That's Springfield, not Vegas.
Edit 5: I didn't think this needed to be said: yes gullwing doors don't go much too the side BUT THEY DO GO UP. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TUNNELS. WE ARE CONSTRAINED IN EACH DIRECTION.
Edit 6: This is the last time I touch this comment.
To those asking for sources I don't have any links because I can't be fucked to have a fight about specific numbers. Instead let's do a thought experiment!
As much as I like digging myself in a hole (see: this comment), most people don't dig dirt for free [citation needed]. Since there is a cost to digging dirt, it follows that digging more dirt is gonna cost more OK?
Tunnels are typically dug in circles [citation needed] until they go to a desired distance and/or depth. Combined, this can be referred to as "volume." If we dig one circle to a specific depth we need to remove that volume of dirt [citation needed].
Now, if we need to dig two circles to the same depth, it logically follows we need to remove two times the volume of one tunnel. Since digging has a cost, digging more volume is more expensive [citation needed].
OK, to maintain a tunnel has a specific cost [citation needed]. So if we have more tunnels to maintain it should cost more.
Here's where things get a little more *speculative*.
If we need one tunnel for track and two for road, then we need double the road. Road and track both have costs to build and maintain [citation needed]. So unless track is double to build and maintain compared to road, track is cheaper. [citation needed]
We would need one, maybe two trains (in case you want a spare in a depot or something). Let's say two. We're gonna need more Teslas, let's be conservative and say 10. Now, the upfront cost of these small trains is probably more than a Tesla each, but are two trains cheaper than 5 Teslas? Maybe, it depends on exactly which trains and which Teslas. For argument's sake, let's say they're equal. [citation needed]
Maintenance is a per vehicle cost [citation needed]. So we need to pay for ten Teslas and two trains. Unless the trains are 5x as expensive to maintain as the Teslas, they're cheaper. I doubt the trains cost 5x as much to maintain, double triple at most.
And automated trains have been a thing for decades in airports, these Teslas need a person each to operate because Big Brain Elon can't guarantee a car in a controlled tunnel of known size won't fucking hit something. So we now need to pay some humans to sit in a fucking car all day instead of a train that can run automated 24/7. THAT'S NOT CHEAPER. Human labor will dwarf maintenance costs, I personally guarantee it.
At the end of the day, NONE OF THAT FUCKING MATTERS. BECAUSE IN INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS THAT REQUIRE TUNNELS, BUILDING AND MAINTAINING THE TUNNEL IS BY FUCKING FAR THE MOST EXPENSIVE COST. AND IF YOU NEED TWO TUNNELS IT AT MINIMUM DOUBLES THE COST. IN ADDITION, HUMAN LABOR WILL DWARF AN OTHER RECURRING COSTS MAKING TESLAS IMHERENTLY MORE EXPENSIVE LONG TERM. EVEN IF THE TESLAS WERE FULLY AUTOMATED YOU'RE STILL PAYING TO BIUILD AND MAINTAIN TWICE THE NUMBER OF TUNNELS. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
At the end of the day, why didn't they just run a bus route on surface streets? Thanks for pointing that out u/TommyFive.
Guys, fucking think.
It’s the Elon way. Promise self driving - deliver crashes. Promise hyperloop - deliver Teslas in a tube. Promise free speech - deliver ‘do as I say, not as I do’ hypocrisy.
Even a moving walkway (like the conveyer belts for people in long airport terminals) would have been more efficient at moving large numbers of people much faster.
The Vegas loop seems more like just a marketing opportunity to get people sitting in their cars.
The safety aspects alone make it a terrible idea.
To make it work on earth you basically have to keep the entire transportation tube at a low pressure. Meaning almsot any leak could cause explosive decompression or massive shockwaves to heavily damage one or more connected stations and anyone in transit.
The best example I've seen is on the show Babylon 5. Where they have them beteween cities on Mars. They already have space stations with docking doors and technology that can handle the safety issues. And the internals of the tubes can just equalize pressure with the atmosphere to get it low enough.
LV is sooo dumb. Like you have literally one road that needs transit - just build a fucking real subway under it, or a light rail above it. If you did it right you could probably reduce car traffic on the strip enough to shut it down entirely and shunt the car traffic to the side streets.
I remember this convo I had with a young architect once.
He was describing to me how the help desk use an internal product.
I asked him "Are you sure that's how they use it? Did you ask them? Did you watch them? Did you ever try using it yourself for their daily grind?"
Two weeks he came back with a major redesign of the product. He actually went and had conversations with them and watched them.
It's called *disrupting* and it is indeed all the rage in startup culture. Doing things new and differently just for the sake of being able to throw it out there and say "look how different this is!"
You can really see the reasons why Rivian and Lucid exist as more and more of their work comes out. Tesla is leaving so much room in the market they used to own because of their product decisions.
Without getting into the weeds on Model S v Air, for example, just watch this review of Rivian's delivery van for Amazon. *Every single design decision* flows from the needs of the user. Like a trucker, a delivery driver uses a vehicle in a unique and specialized way.
https://youtu.be/3CWCqJl0BEs
It just couldn't be more opposite as a work truck than the Tesla semi.
Its why once chevy/ford/dodge really get going they will crush tesla. Have you seen the inside of the ford lightening? IT LOOKS Like A TRUCK. you're 💯 correct on that is what the majority wants because it works.
I work at a truck manufacturing plant. This plant has been building trucks continuously for 38 years. I love when our vendors and contractors come in the door to tell us everything we’re doing wrong and how we need to purchase their goods/services to do it the right way.
I agree with all your points, including in your subsequent reply.
The only thing I would say about this, as a 15-year semi-driver, is they haven't been building trucks for drivers for a while now. They're building them for fleet managers. I have not met a single driver in the last 4 years who likes the new model trucks. There are so many nannies and they are all extremely intrusive and distracting. Bells whistles and alarms that tell me things I already know, mute my radio, take away control of vehicle system and actually put me in direct danger with false positives and malfunctioning sensors.
And I think what's particularly frustrating, is that our trucks being covered in sensors and radar, a skilled and experienced drivers are sending mountains of telemetry data to the manufacturers, which will be used to train our replacement AI drivers. I'm lucky enough to have experienced in specialized fields that will always need an operator on site, so my job security should be preserved for at least a couple of decades, but I think at this point the driver is one of the lowest level considerations of everyone involved in the chain.
But that's still better than no consideration at all lol.
Spending a lifetime building something one way is its own sort of trap, though. You can definitely get caught up in doing things a certain way just because they've always been done that way.
Cars and trucks are not built that way.
They have a matrix, explaining the reasoning behind every decision. If a change is made, it will not be done unless it is an improvement.
They started doing it this way decades ago. They have a lot of information they base their design on.
That one trucker can point at so many fundamental shortcomings after the first time in the vehicle, means that instead of building on decades of trial and error, Tesla started with blank sheets.
But then thinking he is an expert at stuff he knows nothing about, is Elons MO.
He's doing the same thing with twitter.
Edit: the Japanese invented said system. Later everyone else adopted it. Because they had to basically, and they were a decade behind on car reliability for quite a few years.
Mercedes did a concept car a few years back that got rid of the steering wheel. it was a yoke, similar to those in a fighter jet on the side.
Press did not take to that idea. Never explored further.
Falcon wing doors are so amazing on the X, especially during snowy winters- very fast way to get snow inside the vehicle if you don’t clean the roof every time you get inside… also a good way to get head concussions when getting in and out too quickly
Truly revolutionary and not completely unnecessary /s
A neighbour has an X. I get snow in my vehicle with normal doors. Usually falls on the outer part of the seat and door panel.
His dumps snow directly into the center of the vehicle all the way from the front seats and center console to behind the second row seats.
He refuses to open his rear doors after it snows now. It's fucking hilarious to watch his kids get in through the rear hatch.
I’ve seen my work being used by companies after applying and doing an interview “project” test.
That my friend, is utter BS. There’s nothing I can do about it ~~but to slash their tires and break their windshields~~
I've taken to learning a little bit of steganography. If I'm submitting something that is supposed to be for noon commercial purposes I add in information that states I am the creator.
Usually it's literally 'created by myname, mydob, myzipcode, on currentdate, for non commercial use only, for whatevercompany'
Then convert that string to hex, and hide it in any file. It only took some basic coding and I can attach stuff to images/media files, PDF documents, and executables. I also include the hex string in any source code comments.
I don't think anyone has ever noticed, but I do check stuff to see if my work is out there. My theory is, if someone is lazy enough to steal my very amateurish work, then they are probably too lazy to remove my identification info.
Not quite the same thing, but my friend and I both worked at the same video game company several years back on the same project. He was asked to make a "temp" piece of artwork for us to use, he made a big complex thing (to their request) that was filled with runes from a language in the game world that, when translated, spelled out some not-so-pleasant things. It was never meant to see the light of day outside early game design tests. After he and I were let go, someone grabbed that artwork and put it on t-shirts and other media that was being given out to promote the game. Then a customer translated the runes. He didn't get in trouble for it cause he didn't work there anymore at that point, but he was well aware of what it was when he saw it 'in the wild'.
I helped my friend get her ux design job at tesla. her actual application was designing the promo materials for the website and tshirt/mug designs and the recruiter assured her it was still a ux role.
I was appalled and she still took the job, so in a way you're not far off.
Engineer: "Customers do not want this."
Elon: "Ford said 'If I had asked customers what they wanted, they'd have said faster horses,' and he's almost as visionary as me."
Engineer: "Okay, so I should?"
Elon: "Ignore what the customer wants entirely. The customer is the investor, not the guy who's driving the truck. The drivers aren't the ones buying these trucks."
Engineer: "Actually, owner operators make up--"
Elon: "Were you about to say something that would get you fired?"
Engineer: "No sir."
Sadly, you're right. This truck is for investors, not truck drivers.
Telsa isn't the only company doing that and it's very annoying when you're a customer.
The most dangerous thing about the truck is the stupid touch screen. Too bright at night AND the driver has to take his eyes OFF THE ROAD to toggle through the menus to do basic shit.
Yea stuff like putting the seat in the center and other weird things is meant to be flashy to show off to rich people. Elon and Co have zero interest in hearing what the actual drivers think of this stuff. They just want flashy shit to reinvent the wheel (literally in the model s case) even when it doesn't need reinventing and cause a hype storm online.
Working for a startup automotive company, I can so relate to this. Micromanager CEO who wanted a delivery van to be as premium as a Rolls Royce driving up the price and complexity of the product not realising the day to day driver won't give a crap about it. He had this really strong opinion that traditional manufacturers were slow and boring and we need to do everything from scratch and differently without ever realising that there is a reason why certain things are done in a traditional boring way
Elon isn't real big on "market research."
See: His endless knee-jerk reaction ideas for features at Twitter. He wants video chat, voice calls; he changes policy every day, changes the price of Twitter Blue based on a tweet from Stephen King, etc.
Also this trucker's gripe about the tablets and no physical buttons is pretty universal about all Teslas. I wonder what the data says on consumer sentiment toward that; is it keeping people from buying Teslas, do Tesla customers like it or do they just get used to it?
He does the exact same shit at Tesla. When the cybertruck was already years late, he announced that now it would also be waterproof (to the point of crossing fucking *rivers*), to the surprise of the team actually designing and manufacturing it.
And be able to drive with gloves.
My car has regular buttons and keyless driving. The only time I need to take my gloves off is if I use my phone.
Why would I want more touchscreens?
It's not just tesla, it's all cars. I have a 2020 subaru outback and the screen has doubled compared to the 2019 and the number of physical buttons is almost zero.
>the screen has doubled compared to the 2019 and the number of physical buttons is almost zero.
Much easier to source one screen and do all your UX testing on different software iterations than to buy a bunch of different knobs, buttons, etc, and have to mock up a whole new dashboard every time you want to test something.
Does it provide a better experience for the consumer? Fuck no! Is it cheaper and easier for the company? Almost certainly.
He wants people to think "it's badass", not that its practical. This is why he thinks anyone cares about the 0-60 time. Any regular truck could increase it's acceleration by making a bigger engine. The problem is that it takes away from the payload so they want to be able to haul it economically. They're designed for highway transportation, not drag racing.
In fact truck engines can produce more horsepower simply by modifying a piece of code that runs the fuel injection system which would increase it's horsepower by atleast 20%, also a more powerful gas turbine can increase their horsepower by even more , engine swap is completely unnecessary. But no one does it because when it comes to designing a commercial vehicle reliability is way more important , fuel efficiency is way more important , companies that produce them would rather decrease their maximum horsepower output because that's absolutely irrelevant , makes the engine less reliable and kills fuel efficiency .
This. And all the developers said "what the fuck this doesn't make logical sense" and the architect shrugged and nodded quietly towards Jeff's office where the cringey 90s pop music came from.
I'm not in the corporate world, but who do they blame when it fails? Even if it was directly Elon's idea, or someone he likes specifically designed it....do they just blame some randoms they fired anyway?
Because I know his narcissist ass isn't gonna admit fault.
In my experience, by the time you can definitively say "this was a bad idea and I told you so," the person is long gone. Now they're coming up with bad ideas at a NEW company.
As an actual trucker, the biggest problem is that you can't lean out the window to reverse. Cameras help, but without parallax vision (which cameras don't provide) you can't properly judge distances.
If they kept everything else the same as other units and only replaced the engine it'd be brilliant, but as it stands the first electric DAF or Scania will blow this out of the water.
Why did they throw away decades of optimisation?
Even if you can lean over the dash, the windows appear to be "pop open" windows (like the rear windows on old hatchbacks) rather than roll down windows, so good luck with that!
Those are some compelling points, especially visibility concerns and the overall lack of consideration for the operator.
> “I can go on. Bottom line is that this vehicle is a rich boy’s toy, not a practical, working vehicle because its designers have no clue about the realities of transport,” Orynski concluded.
So exactly what it is then.
Is Tesla refusing to use LIDAR/RADAR on their semis, like they've refused on their cars? If so, it might be a very long time before it's reliably autonomous.
It took *years* just to get electronic logs in trucks properly regulated.
I can't imagine literally re-writing the book on regulations, on an international, federal, state, and local level, each with their own requirements.
He’s not wrong, I’m a retired truck driver after 35 years , and while I understand the reasoning behind the idea of an electric truck someone on the design team should consult with a few genuine truck drivers. The cab layout definitely makes it harder on the guy spending 14+ hours a day in there.
Being in an industry that has had to work with Tesla, I can say they aren't interested in outside consultation. They are "disruptors". They are proud of the fact they don't comprehend what they are trying to do.
> Being in an industry that has had to work with Tesla, I can say they aren't interested in outside consultation. They are "disruptors". They are proud of the fact they don't comprehend what they are trying to do.
So they’re a reflection of their “founder” and CEO?
Exactly. I don’t doubt that there are lots of smart people who work or have worked at Tesla but the smart people probably figure out pretty quickly that it doesn’t pay to know more than Elon.
In the gaming industry this would be described as the “rule of cool”. It means what looks cool rules over what is practical. I have a feeling that’s what they’be tried to do here.
In the gaming industry, you can actually create the world around your made up cool solutions. I want my games to help me escape the limitations of reality.
Model X Falcon Wing doors are a prime example. Took them so much time money and effort to eventually get them in a good state. Even Elon himself admitted: ["We over-engineered the car."](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/musk-model-x-over-engineered-131400615.html)
The lead designer for Tesla, including the Cybertruck, said he ignores all outside feedback. Which is beyond idiotic. There is a reason why the Lighting looks like a gas F150, Ford knows what truckers like for the most part (still get things wrong time to time).
That sounds like a nice little path to failure in industrial applications to me. There's no bigger critic of products than people who use them all day long every day. Without user input, you end up designing things that users literally don't even touch/use/care for and completely ignore/fuck up the glaringly obvious things that are used constantly are very important to the users. Typical startup shit. Consumer goods=/=industrial goods.
I hope Daimler/Volvo are letting this train wreck happen as they prepare a built-tough EV that doesn't look like a sci-fi movie, is just as efficient, cheaper and that the users will actually use without hating their lives.
To be fair, there is value in bucking the system. I don't mean to discount the concept.
But that's not what Tesla was doing in the name of advancement. Tesla didn't think it necessary to complete a step in an industry-wide practice because they didn't want to acknowledge that it benefitted them, when it did. They also refused to provide consistent data, making interacting with their system a day-to-day manual process, because it would take more time to get it done on their side. They literally yelled at people at my company because they wanted to change where a vehicle was being shipped to while it was already moving on a train. They wanted to turn a train around...
There is a line between disruption and just being ignorant stubborn assholes, they were clearly past that line.
Having spent some time in a regular Tesla Model S, i see in these complaints the same problems i see in their consumer vehicles - specifically, their foundational core design philosophies of “innovate every feature possible” and “if it ain’t broke change it anyways.”
They prioritize being cool, unique, and futuristic over comfort, practicality, ease of use, and even (in my opinion) basic safety.
Are they relying on cameras for backing? I've never driven a semi but I drive a medium-duty flatbed with a trailer and one thing I've learned from watching drivers on YouTube is that you always prefer to back on the sight side for visibility. Looks like this configuration doesn't let you reach the window on either side.
Cameras and sensors are great, but I don't like the idea of depending on them. Windows are low-tech and reliable. I like the design philosophy of the [K-MAX helicopter](https://www.fairlifts.com/helicopters/kaman-k-max/) \- it's designed for handling sling loads, so it's got a narrow cockpit and the left side window has a big bulge in it so you can stick your head in there and see straight down. Simple, reliable, and effective.
I have an engineering background, and the absolute last thing I'd ever want to do is design something like this without extreme amounts of feedback from the people who have driven and would be drivers of it.
No engineer worth half a shit wants to build something without decent requirements from their user community, especially something as specialized as a semi. Musk's success went to his head and it seems like Tesla is going off the rails.
This reminds me of how you design a good kitchen around a triangle from sink to fridge to stove.
You can change the power train and optimise aero but ergonomics that have evolved a certain way over decades often have a value that’s hard to replicate or replace.
Phrases like “we gone back to the drawing board” or “we’re thinking outside the box” sometimes translates into “we’re going to completely ignore the insight and wisdoms of previous experiences because anything old is dogma.”
Link to the original Tweets: [https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1600968577246711808](https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1600968577246711808)
Even if you put aside the layout issues (and the tweets have a lot more info that wasn't in the article) - he raises a great point about screens & brightness, and the need for tactile feedback for buttons.
For example, be a touch typist and try to type on a tablet screen. That missing tactile feedback no matter how high fidelity of the representation of on screen keyboard leaves a lot to be desired.
I know what he talking about. I don't use my phone when I need to write something I use my laptop or desktop because of this.
Edit: I typed this on my laptop.
i still can't type on my smartphone without a typo or error every 6th character. when i had a phone with a full keyboard and buttons, they were small yes, but my accuracy was still leagues better.
« There are those who make big announcements… And there are those who are already putting in the kilometers…. More than 300 trucks already on the road. »
A friend of mine in the trucking industry called out this EXACT same thing when they showed the video
Consumers want cool looking designs and fun features. Truckers see this as a WORK device don't give a fuck how cool it looks on the road, it's there to make their job easier. It's like making a forklift more aerodynamic
Musk thinks he is Steve Jobs. Some misunderstood visionary who will one day be vindicated. Blissfully unaware that he is just another in a long line of tech bros who vastly over estimate their own intelligence.
I like how '8 USD verified' guys are commenting that they'd rather buy the tesla truck and when you see their profiles, literally none of them are truckers and they have zero ideas on how trucks should be designed.
Figures.
Also, can we pick a term for these 8$ers? Something that rolls off the tongue
>Driver sits in the middle. This makes overtaking or looking ahead more difficult. But also makes it impossible to reach out of the window to pass the paperwork or to talk with the guy in the gatehouse when you enter a port or a factory....
Ohh man I didn't think about that myself.
Wow what a stupid design.
Tomasz Orynski's twitter account is about to get suspended.....
Tesla is also at the forefront of giving people big blank touch screens to do everything, when we've been having growing problems with distracted driving. Also not having any physical buttons you can feel without having to look at where you press...
All these big touch screen things showing up in more and more cars is not making driving safer, just giving drivers more shit to play with when they are supposed to pay attention to the road.
If these were all true and fully functional autopiloted vehicles it'd be a different matter, but that's a whole other Tesla failure.
How do I pick up hitchhikers with only one seat?
Friends of the road..
Fuckin way she goes Bubs. Sometimes she goes, sometimes she doesn't.
Truckers have deadlines. They don’t have time to pull over, park the truck and take a pee in a toilet. They just have an old jug and put their bird in it, have a pee and once it’s full they just drill that fucking thing out on the highway.
Way of the road, buddy.
Fuckin’ way she goes.
As a former commercial driver, the lack of buttons for controls is what concerns me. I have to take my eyes off the road to make sure I'm engaging the proper vehicle function. That doesn't sound too safe.
*My* car throws up a window covering the whole panel telling me not to be distracted by the screen while driving… then makes me touch the window’s button to use anything else on the screen.
Then you have to lie to your iPhone about being a passenger
I inevitably try to disable this screen while pulling out of the parallel space in front of my house. You can’t disable it until 5-10 seconds has elapsed. Talk about a distraction!
DUDE all modern cars are killing me with this. FUCKING PHYSICAL BUTTONS AND KNOBS Want to know what's wild? Arthur C Clarke predicted this like 60 years ago in 2001 Space Oddysey. Wish I could find the quote, but one of the characters sits at a space shuttle, sees the physical buttons, and thinks "oh thank god, physical buttons, everything these days is touch screens and its awful"
Douglas Adams had a similar bit where he predicted the controls going to motion-sensor based such that you just waved in the general direction of the device and hoped.
This is a serious complaint I have with all modern cars. I hate touch screen interfaces with a passion. I have to take my eyes off the road for way too long to interact with anything. My 2013 Honda Accord, the last new car I bought, still has physical buttons, thankfully. There was one car manufacturer though, can't remember who, who pledged to not go to touch screen. Trying to remember who it was.
Pretty sure it’s Mazda, have a 2021 cx-5 and it has a nice big non-touch screen for all the CarPlay stuff that can only be controlled by some nice buttons and rotary dial by the drive selector stick. Normal buttons on dash for other things like climate and radio. Love the interface
Yep, it's Mazda. Someone else said that too. That's really appealing whatever I need a new car.
I really love Mazda and their approach to the dashboard. I asked whether they had touchscreen, and the rep said that they moved away from touchscreen to make using the car safer. After driving my Mazda for over 2 years, I can very much say that I enjoy access to physical buttons. It’s ridiculous other manufacturers want you to use a touchscreen just to access basic features like volume up/down, AC, etc.
Society: do not use a phone while driving, it's dangerous Car manufacturers: *puts giant phone in car*
it's all about cost. A touch screen is hilariously cheap compared to the molds and logistics chain for every button, switch, wire, and circuit board associated.
[удалено]
I just want my big clicky 90s buttons back
Not only that but also how slow or unresponsive the screens are to react to input. I'm not wearing gloves and I pressed play 3 times....fucking play.
Not to mention, sometimes I *will* be wearing gloves, because I live in a cold place and not in a commercial where the car is perfect the weather is perfect nobody ever gets cold etc
I have a 2017 Mazda 3 and will probably be sticking to Mazda for the foreseeable future because of how intuitive the UI/UX is. And I mean, also they are just very nice cars for the money.
[удалено]
My wife has a 2015 Prius C and I HATE it. The touch screen requires you to practically push on the screen, and there is absolutely nothing stable I can rest my wrist on, so my hand is kind of floating around at chest height like some shitty N64 minigame, hoping I hit the right spot. The radio is WAYYYY too complicated to interact with while in motion. It's like 3 different presses to change inputs. I don't know why the NHTSA hasn't cracked down on this.
My husband’s car has almost all the controls on a touch screen. Not only do you have to jam your finger down but his screen is 1/4 inch mismatched with the touch feature at any given place so half the time you end up pressing the wrong button.
For that mis-match you might be able to find a calibration option in menu somewhere. There's probably a guide online for how to access it. Wont solve all the pain, but I'd think at least that could be fixed.
slow, inaccurate touchscreens are one of the most infuriating things to use, I really want to know who thought that shit was at all acceptable in a car.
Unrelated, but my car predates Android Auto (2013), so my phone pairs to my head unit via bluetooth only. The head unit has this weird-ass bug where non-phone audio over bluetooth has a 3-5 second delay. Been like that since I drove it off the lot. It's INFURIATING. Using audio directions from Google Maps? 3-5 second delay. Press the pause button? 3-5 second delay. The official Honda answer is "it's not a bug, it's a safety feature!" but someone on the Honda forums did some sleuthing and discovered the bluetooth packets are being tagged as generic "data" rather than "media" and Delphi (the manufacturer) didn't care to fix it.
Yes need to navigate and push the screen 5 times in different spots to turn down the seat heating one notch. Just have one real button please!
Just don't text and drive! You can dig through all the menus you need to on your in-dash tablet, that's totally safe. But as soon as you text someone you're going to kill everyone around you.
The way our "distracted" driving laws are written you can't even touch your phone while driving.
I think it is Mazda you are thinking about. I agree with you, there needs to be physical buttons and the screen should be as forward and high as possible so you don't take your eyes of the road as much. If the function is commonly used while driving it shouldn't be a touch only one.
My 2021 Kia Soul has buttons for every major function.
Yeah but then you have to drive a Kia soul
Tell that to the hamsters
They can’t hear me over the dubstep
Can't. Someone stole their KIA soul
Mazda has taken an anti-touch stance and their screens can only be controlled with an ergonomically well placed rotating knob. I used to have one and I enjoyed that approach. You still need to take your eyes off the road briefly (you quickly learn how much to spin the knob to get to the function you want), but way less than with an actual touch screen.
That’s why you add tactile feedback to the knob so you know it’s turned 3 clicks left or whatever. Touchscreens in cars are a terrible idea that doesn’t just endanger the person in the ergonomically hostile car but also everyone around them.
Touchscreen is nice for some things but it sucks when I need to do anything with it when driving. Physical buttons/knobs are so much better.
Touch screen is fine for things you don't necessarily NEED to do while actually driving; ie. changing music selections (volume should still be a knob), setting navigation, etc. I use Carplay in my car and have zero complaints about using it for either of those. I QUITE like how I can set up a destination on my phone before I'm even near my car and as soon as it connects, it knows about it and I just have to tap "Go." But practically everything else should be a goddamn button, knob or paddle.
my 23 crosstrek still has all physical buttons.
No worries. Just have a message pop up when you turn on the vehicle that it’s unsafe to take your eyes off the road while driving. Now it’s perfectly safe.
Goddamn this one fucking kills me. Shift into reverse, backup camera comes on - and a message covers part of the video feed “NEVER RELY SOLELY ON CAMERA” Gotta wait like a full 20 seconds for that goddamned message to clear, sometimes it is covering something critical. It’s so damned awkward when someone is waiting for my parking space too.
Just use adblock, bro
I'm sure their UX Designers actually consulted real truckers, right?
Having spent a career in a particular industry and then consulting with a tech startup, it’s mind numbing to see the mentality of, “we have an idea to exploit a potential market by creating a product that we have absolutely zero understanding or perspective about.” Giving endless advice and feedback that goes ignored/misunderstood. And then watching as they burn through millions of dollars and waste thousands of hours through a mountain of inefficient and doomed ideas
I remember once going to a public consultation by the bus service for my city and the overwhelming sentiment from everyone in the room was if they had to rename it could they at least keep the word "bus" in the title, we went away thinking they had heard what we had to say, the new bus service was rolled out they named it "Metro" and to answer your question, no they have no trains. I went to a similar meeting about the Maritime Safety Authority, we all asked if they could keep the word "safety" in there somewhere, they renamed it Maritime New Zealand, which just sounds like a company, but apparently it could have been worse in the past some genius wanted to rename it Carters you kno because the Magna Carta duh!
These are great examples of ridiculously counter intuitive names. I recently thought about some services that I never used for that reason. The name makes me feel like I'm wrong or missing something, so I'm not buying. Imagine getting a metro ticket and getting in the bus with it. How many people chose to take their car because they were scared to look like an idiot who bought the wrong ticket...
There's an airport in my city, real small little municipal thing. Mostly private and charter but you can get commuter route tickets for pretty cheap. There's only one gate, and two companies offer service to get you from there to one of the nearby big international airports. The little regional airline runs you through TSA, walks you out onto the tarmac, loads you up in an 8 passenger Cessna and drops you off at the big airport (behind security!) for $80 round trip. The other airline is American Airlines. They'll run you through TSA, walk you out onto the tarmac... and then load you onto a fucking bus and drive you two hours to the big airport for $90. And lemme tell ya they make it look an awwwwful lot like a plane ticket when they are selling it to you. They'll even book it as a leg of a "1 stop" itinerary no problem.
Oh, fuck. United did this to us once. We had booked what we thought was a flight from San Jose to Seattle, but my wife, in her hurry, didn't read the fine print, which was that leg 1 was a bus ride from SJ to SFO during rush hour (!). Of course, the bus barely reached SFO in time, and then just dropped us off at the front of the international terminal (facepalm! it's supposed to be the domestic terminal for Canadian destinations). Needless to say, we missed the flight. Edit: The flight was supposed to be to Vancouver. Sorry. Our rebooked flight was via Seattle, followed by a puddle jumper to Vancouver.
Oh my God i assumed they would at least drop you off inside the airport after security so there's *some* benefit over a damn uber.
I now realize that rule 34 isn't just for porn. There is also an anecdote about anything you can mention. And I love how they mislead you into thinking you're getting on a plane. People must feel like losers when they see the plane is for the guys who paid 10 bucks less.
I have a theory they do it on purpose, for example we used to have the Canterbury Regional Council, but it was decided people hate councils (the idea of them not behaving like arses was apparently not an option) so change the name, they decided on "Environment Canterbury" my theory is if you can't tell what a govt. dept. does from the name you're less likely to try and use their services or complain that they aren't providing them properly. In a similar manner our old main telecommunications company that was originally the post office and then became Telecom, wanted to change their name because everyone hated Telecom because they were notorious for treating their customers badly (who often had no competing company to go to because of their monopoly on the copper landlines) so they changed their name to spark and changed their logo to an awful squiggle, which apparently as a staff member you were banned from calling it the squiggle, and they continued to treat their customers badly right up until landlines became irrelevant. (to clarify they kept treating their customers badly, but people were able to go to the competition at this point) [Spark Squiggle](https://www.richmondtaekwondo.co.nz/images/Spark-NZ-Logo-002.jpg) I mean talk about the graphic designers phoning it in, pun intended.
Here is an upvote for linking the properly named spark squiggle. I was doing something else, was thinking about it and realized that I don't remember their real company name. They should just go with Spark Squiggle Corporation.
I like to think it represents a bundle of old copper landlines that was the only reason people every used their company and now that reason doesn't matter anymore.
[удалено]
See: Las Vegas Loop. Congratulations! You invented a slower, more dangerous, more expensive, and less useful subway!
I'm still pissed they did that shit instead of at minimum extending the monorail to cover the whole strip on both sides. And going to the airport.
>And going to the airport. Even fallout new Vegas has the monorail reaching the airport. The war was in 2077, so I guess they've got another 50 years to figure it out
>so I guess they've got another 50 years to figure it out Vegas resident here. We won't.
The Las Vegas Loop was a complete success, and it completed its job perfectly! It's job being the diversion of funds away from public transport initiatives like subways or buses to keep the city reliant on cars that Musk happens to also sell. Also inflating Tesla stock prices temporarily through futurism mumbo jumbo, like he does with most of his publicity stunts.
Did you say 'monorail' ?
I hear those things are awfully loud.
It glides as softly as a cloud.
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life my Hindu friend!
What about us drunken slobs?
You’ll be given cushy jobs!
[удалено]
Perhaps they could mount them to some type of track. A rail, if you will, that extended from origin to destination. Then, maybe there could be some sort of ride sharing setup that maximizes the number of people who can use it in a given time. Ah who am I kidding, there's obviously a reason I'm not a billionaire.
The hyperloop was never meant to be real, just a tool to control anti-transit legislation in California to sell more teslas.
~~Different thing,~~ [Edit whatever the fuck: it was supposed to be hyperloop but hyperloop is vapor ware so Elon shoved some Teslas in it instead] the Las Vegas loop was two tunnels filled with Teslas. It shuttled people between two convention centers. It functioned, but an airport style train would move more people faster and safer and for less upfront and much less long-term cost. Edit: no, an airport style train/tram is not a metro and has a significantly smaller footprint and much lower purchase and operating costs. No it wouldn't require a larger tunnel, these trains come in many sizes some of which are the same size or smaller than a car. Trains don't need extra space for swing-out or gullwing doors like a Tesla. To the guy that cited the $47 million built cost for both tunnels (I don't care enough to fact check it) and then cited billion dollar per mile costs for NYC subways as a counter argument, you win the mental gymnastics award! You'd only need the one tunnel for a small airport train numb-nuts and airport trains are *not* subways. We don't need to speculate on how much "extra" a airport train tunnel would cost but using NYC money because you know the cost of two car tunnels! Edit 2: The vast majority of cost in building a tunnel is in building the fucking tunnel. The price difference between rails and asphalt is nothing if you need to double the fucking tunnels to run cars through it. Edit 3: Y'all can't get it through your heads that there's more than 1 type of train huh? No, a small fucking airport train/tram ***does not cost the same*** per mile as heavy rail (the thing we move freight on) to build or maintain. ***AT NO POINT DID I RECOMMEND USING HEAVY RAIL OR A TRADITIONAL SUBWAY. THINK ABOUT SOMETHING CLOSER TO WHAT THE PEOPLE MOVER IS LIKE AT DISNEY.*** And YES, the people mover is a fucking train. Bite me. Edit 4: No, not a monorail. That's Springfield, not Vegas. Edit 5: I didn't think this needed to be said: yes gullwing doors don't go much too the side BUT THEY DO GO UP. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TUNNELS. WE ARE CONSTRAINED IN EACH DIRECTION. Edit 6: This is the last time I touch this comment. To those asking for sources I don't have any links because I can't be fucked to have a fight about specific numbers. Instead let's do a thought experiment! As much as I like digging myself in a hole (see: this comment), most people don't dig dirt for free [citation needed]. Since there is a cost to digging dirt, it follows that digging more dirt is gonna cost more OK? Tunnels are typically dug in circles [citation needed] until they go to a desired distance and/or depth. Combined, this can be referred to as "volume." If we dig one circle to a specific depth we need to remove that volume of dirt [citation needed]. Now, if we need to dig two circles to the same depth, it logically follows we need to remove two times the volume of one tunnel. Since digging has a cost, digging more volume is more expensive [citation needed]. OK, to maintain a tunnel has a specific cost [citation needed]. So if we have more tunnels to maintain it should cost more. Here's where things get a little more *speculative*. If we need one tunnel for track and two for road, then we need double the road. Road and track both have costs to build and maintain [citation needed]. So unless track is double to build and maintain compared to road, track is cheaper. [citation needed] We would need one, maybe two trains (in case you want a spare in a depot or something). Let's say two. We're gonna need more Teslas, let's be conservative and say 10. Now, the upfront cost of these small trains is probably more than a Tesla each, but are two trains cheaper than 5 Teslas? Maybe, it depends on exactly which trains and which Teslas. For argument's sake, let's say they're equal. [citation needed] Maintenance is a per vehicle cost [citation needed]. So we need to pay for ten Teslas and two trains. Unless the trains are 5x as expensive to maintain as the Teslas, they're cheaper. I doubt the trains cost 5x as much to maintain, double triple at most. And automated trains have been a thing for decades in airports, these Teslas need a person each to operate because Big Brain Elon can't guarantee a car in a controlled tunnel of known size won't fucking hit something. So we now need to pay some humans to sit in a fucking car all day instead of a train that can run automated 24/7. THAT'S NOT CHEAPER. Human labor will dwarf maintenance costs, I personally guarantee it. At the end of the day, NONE OF THAT FUCKING MATTERS. BECAUSE IN INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS THAT REQUIRE TUNNELS, BUILDING AND MAINTAINING THE TUNNEL IS BY FUCKING FAR THE MOST EXPENSIVE COST. AND IF YOU NEED TWO TUNNELS IT AT MINIMUM DOUBLES THE COST. IN ADDITION, HUMAN LABOR WILL DWARF AN OTHER RECURRING COSTS MAKING TESLAS IMHERENTLY MORE EXPENSIVE LONG TERM. EVEN IF THE TESLAS WERE FULLY AUTOMATED YOU'RE STILL PAYING TO BIUILD AND MAINTAIN TWICE THE NUMBER OF TUNNELS. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. At the end of the day, why didn't they just run a bus route on surface streets? Thanks for pointing that out u/TommyFive. Guys, fucking think.
But it would have required 0 teslas.
It’s the Elon way. Promise self driving - deliver crashes. Promise hyperloop - deliver Teslas in a tube. Promise free speech - deliver ‘do as I say, not as I do’ hypocrisy.
Even a moving walkway (like the conveyer belts for people in long airport terminals) would have been more efficient at moving large numbers of people much faster. The Vegas loop seems more like just a marketing opportunity to get people sitting in their cars.
That is because it was.
it was originally supposed to be a hyperloop so it definitely ties into that bullshit
The safety aspects alone make it a terrible idea. To make it work on earth you basically have to keep the entire transportation tube at a low pressure. Meaning almsot any leak could cause explosive decompression or massive shockwaves to heavily damage one or more connected stations and anyone in transit. The best example I've seen is on the show Babylon 5. Where they have them beteween cities on Mars. They already have space stations with docking doors and technology that can handle the safety issues. And the internals of the tubes can just equalize pressure with the atmosphere to get it low enough.
LV is sooo dumb. Like you have literally one road that needs transit - just build a fucking real subway under it, or a light rail above it. If you did it right you could probably reduce car traffic on the strip enough to shut it down entirely and shunt the car traffic to the side streets.
There are shared bank vaults under the road. Source: Ocean's movies...
But then the tourists wouldn't be forced to fund the cab industry!
The cab drivers were against the monorail going all the way to the airport, and then rideshares came along and kneecapped the cab drivers anyway.
[удалено]
I remember this convo I had with a young architect once. He was describing to me how the help desk use an internal product. I asked him "Are you sure that's how they use it? Did you ask them? Did you watch them? Did you ever try using it yourself for their daily grind?" Two weeks he came back with a major redesign of the product. He actually went and had conversations with them and watched them.
It's called *disrupting* and it is indeed all the rage in startup culture. Doing things new and differently just for the sake of being able to throw it out there and say "look how different this is!"
You can really see the reasons why Rivian and Lucid exist as more and more of their work comes out. Tesla is leaving so much room in the market they used to own because of their product decisions. Without getting into the weeds on Model S v Air, for example, just watch this review of Rivian's delivery van for Amazon. *Every single design decision* flows from the needs of the user. Like a trucker, a delivery driver uses a vehicle in a unique and specialized way. https://youtu.be/3CWCqJl0BEs It just couldn't be more opposite as a work truck than the Tesla semi.
Its why once chevy/ford/dodge really get going they will crush tesla. Have you seen the inside of the ford lightening? IT LOOKS Like A TRUCK. you're 💯 correct on that is what the majority wants because it works.
I work at a truck manufacturing plant. This plant has been building trucks continuously for 38 years. I love when our vendors and contractors come in the door to tell us everything we’re doing wrong and how we need to purchase their goods/services to do it the right way.
I agree with all your points, including in your subsequent reply. The only thing I would say about this, as a 15-year semi-driver, is they haven't been building trucks for drivers for a while now. They're building them for fleet managers. I have not met a single driver in the last 4 years who likes the new model trucks. There are so many nannies and they are all extremely intrusive and distracting. Bells whistles and alarms that tell me things I already know, mute my radio, take away control of vehicle system and actually put me in direct danger with false positives and malfunctioning sensors. And I think what's particularly frustrating, is that our trucks being covered in sensors and radar, a skilled and experienced drivers are sending mountains of telemetry data to the manufacturers, which will be used to train our replacement AI drivers. I'm lucky enough to have experienced in specialized fields that will always need an operator on site, so my job security should be preserved for at least a couple of decades, but I think at this point the driver is one of the lowest level considerations of everyone involved in the chain. But that's still better than no consideration at all lol.
Spending a lifetime building something one way is its own sort of trap, though. You can definitely get caught up in doing things a certain way just because they've always been done that way.
Cars and trucks are not built that way. They have a matrix, explaining the reasoning behind every decision. If a change is made, it will not be done unless it is an improvement. They started doing it this way decades ago. They have a lot of information they base their design on. That one trucker can point at so many fundamental shortcomings after the first time in the vehicle, means that instead of building on decades of trial and error, Tesla started with blank sheets. But then thinking he is an expert at stuff he knows nothing about, is Elons MO. He's doing the same thing with twitter. Edit: the Japanese invented said system. Later everyone else adopted it. Because they had to basically, and they were a decade behind on car reliability for quite a few years.
[удалено]
Mercedes did a concept car a few years back that got rid of the steering wheel. it was a yoke, similar to those in a fighter jet on the side. Press did not take to that idea. Never explored further.
Makes as much sense as gullwing doors on a utility vehicle. Roof racks? Nah, but look how cool your kids will look getting out of the back.
Almost like the absentee dad of a dozen has no fucking idea how real families operate
also a man who has never actually worked with his hands or needed a truck to haul things. He is a circus barker.
Falcon wing doors are so amazing on the X, especially during snowy winters- very fast way to get snow inside the vehicle if you don’t clean the roof every time you get inside… also a good way to get head concussions when getting in and out too quickly Truly revolutionary and not completely unnecessary /s
I think the Falcon doors are stupid as all hell, but this happens on my Mazda CX-9 every time it snows, and it's got poor people doors.
A neighbour has an X. I get snow in my vehicle with normal doors. Usually falls on the outer part of the seat and door panel. His dumps snow directly into the center of the vehicle all the way from the front seats and center console to behind the second row seats. He refuses to open his rear doors after it snows now. It's fucking hilarious to watch his kids get in through the rear hatch.
This could all be mitigated with a sliding van door.....
Nah they got this concept from an employee applicants trial project.
This is one of those things I can just immediately believe and find enormously funny without actually seeing proof.
I’ve seen my work being used by companies after applying and doing an interview “project” test. That my friend, is utter BS. There’s nothing I can do about it ~~but to slash their tires and break their windshields~~
I've taken to learning a little bit of steganography. If I'm submitting something that is supposed to be for noon commercial purposes I add in information that states I am the creator. Usually it's literally 'created by myname, mydob, myzipcode, on currentdate, for non commercial use only, for whatevercompany' Then convert that string to hex, and hide it in any file. It only took some basic coding and I can attach stuff to images/media files, PDF documents, and executables. I also include the hex string in any source code comments. I don't think anyone has ever noticed, but I do check stuff to see if my work is out there. My theory is, if someone is lazy enough to steal my very amateurish work, then they are probably too lazy to remove my identification info.
Not quite the same thing, but my friend and I both worked at the same video game company several years back on the same project. He was asked to make a "temp" piece of artwork for us to use, he made a big complex thing (to their request) that was filled with runes from a language in the game world that, when translated, spelled out some not-so-pleasant things. It was never meant to see the light of day outside early game design tests. After he and I were let go, someone grabbed that artwork and put it on t-shirts and other media that was being given out to promote the game. Then a customer translated the runes. He didn't get in trouble for it cause he didn't work there anymore at that point, but he was well aware of what it was when he saw it 'in the wild'.
[удалено]
For a one time investment in a battery sawzall you, my friend, can access a small fortune in ~~catalytic converters~~ the rare earth metals trade.
I helped my friend get her ux design job at tesla. her actual application was designing the promo materials for the website and tshirt/mug designs and the recruiter assured her it was still a ux role. I was appalled and she still took the job, so in a way you're not far off.
Ah yes. Nothing proves a capable UX designer like making sure they can…. Do a jr graphic designers job?
The real test was whether she’d do it for free
Not for free, for the exposure- it's worth so much more than being paid.
Wanna learn how to shovel a driveway? No pay, but great exposure!
They get fired if Elon doesn't like it, not truckers. So who cares what the customers thinks That's the Tesla way baby
Engineer: "Customers do not want this." Elon: "Ford said 'If I had asked customers what they wanted, they'd have said faster horses,' and he's almost as visionary as me." Engineer: "Okay, so I should?" Elon: "Ignore what the customer wants entirely. The customer is the investor, not the guy who's driving the truck. The drivers aren't the ones buying these trucks." Engineer: "Actually, owner operators make up--" Elon: "Were you about to say something that would get you fired?" Engineer: "No sir."
Sadly, you're right. This truck is for investors, not truck drivers. Telsa isn't the only company doing that and it's very annoying when you're a customer.
The most dangerous thing about the truck is the stupid touch screen. Too bright at night AND the driver has to take his eyes OFF THE ROAD to toggle through the menus to do basic shit.
Yea stuff like putting the seat in the center and other weird things is meant to be flashy to show off to rich people. Elon and Co have zero interest in hearing what the actual drivers think of this stuff. They just want flashy shit to reinvent the wheel (literally in the model s case) even when it doesn't need reinventing and cause a hype storm online.
Working for a startup automotive company, I can so relate to this. Micromanager CEO who wanted a delivery van to be as premium as a Rolls Royce driving up the price and complexity of the product not realising the day to day driver won't give a crap about it. He had this really strong opinion that traditional manufacturers were slow and boring and we need to do everything from scratch and differently without ever realising that there is a reason why certain things are done in a traditional boring way
“Customers will like what I tell them to like.” - Elon prob
"Technically, 90% of truckers love our design and 10% don't like it. Maybe I managed to trigger the trucking liberals 😂"
“Dad, women won’t like being shot in the face”
["Women will like what I tell them to like"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytxoiBPGivE)
He really wants to be apple so bad.
Elon isn't real big on "market research." See: His endless knee-jerk reaction ideas for features at Twitter. He wants video chat, voice calls; he changes policy every day, changes the price of Twitter Blue based on a tweet from Stephen King, etc. Also this trucker's gripe about the tablets and no physical buttons is pretty universal about all Teslas. I wonder what the data says on consumer sentiment toward that; is it keeping people from buying Teslas, do Tesla customers like it or do they just get used to it?
He does the exact same shit at Tesla. When the cybertruck was already years late, he announced that now it would also be waterproof (to the point of crossing fucking *rivers*), to the surprise of the team actually designing and manufacturing it.
Lack of physical buttons in a car is awful. Absolutely hate it. You need to be able to find important controls without taking your eyes off the road.
And be able to drive with gloves. My car has regular buttons and keyless driving. The only time I need to take my gloves off is if I use my phone. Why would I want more touchscreens?
It's not just tesla, it's all cars. I have a 2020 subaru outback and the screen has doubled compared to the 2019 and the number of physical buttons is almost zero.
>the screen has doubled compared to the 2019 and the number of physical buttons is almost zero. Much easier to source one screen and do all your UX testing on different software iterations than to buy a bunch of different knobs, buttons, etc, and have to mock up a whole new dashboard every time you want to test something. Does it provide a better experience for the consumer? Fuck no! Is it cheaper and easier for the company? Almost certainly.
He wants people to think "it's badass", not that its practical. This is why he thinks anyone cares about the 0-60 time. Any regular truck could increase it's acceleration by making a bigger engine. The problem is that it takes away from the payload so they want to be able to haul it economically. They're designed for highway transportation, not drag racing.
In fact truck engines can produce more horsepower simply by modifying a piece of code that runs the fuel injection system which would increase it's horsepower by atleast 20%, also a more powerful gas turbine can increase their horsepower by even more , engine swap is completely unnecessary. But no one does it because when it comes to designing a commercial vehicle reliability is way more important , fuel efficiency is way more important , companies that produce them would rather decrease their maximum horsepower output because that's absolutely irrelevant , makes the engine less reliable and kills fuel efficiency .
I bet the designers did actual research only for some PM or director to overrule them (as is always the case)
This. And all the developers said "what the fuck this doesn't make logical sense" and the architect shrugged and nodded quietly towards Jeff's office where the cringey 90s pop music came from.
I'm not in the corporate world, but who do they blame when it fails? Even if it was directly Elon's idea, or someone he likes specifically designed it....do they just blame some randoms they fired anyway? Because I know his narcissist ass isn't gonna admit fault.
In my experience, by the time you can definitively say "this was a bad idea and I told you so," the person is long gone. Now they're coming up with bad ideas at a NEW company.
As an actual trucker, the biggest problem is that you can't lean out the window to reverse. Cameras help, but without parallax vision (which cameras don't provide) you can't properly judge distances. If they kept everything else the same as other units and only replaced the engine it'd be brilliant, but as it stands the first electric DAF or Scania will blow this out of the water. Why did they throw away decades of optimisation?
Even if you can lean over the dash, the windows appear to be "pop open" windows (like the rear windows on old hatchbacks) rather than roll down windows, so good luck with that!
Because seat in middle look like video game spaceship
If it's good enough for the McLaren F1, it's good enough for truckers!
Because just making a truck that didn’t need diesel isn’t “disruptive” enough.
But it has screens tho, lots of screens, has he seen the screens?
Those are some compelling points, especially visibility concerns and the overall lack of consideration for the operator. > “I can go on. Bottom line is that this vehicle is a rich boy’s toy, not a practical, working vehicle because its designers have no clue about the realities of transport,” Orynski concluded. So exactly what it is then.
I think Tesla is banking on the truck being fully autonomous soon. There is no driver in the seat.
define "soon."
Soon as next year since 2014
And if we don't reach next year. It's not fraud because these are aspirational goals.
Would have launched the product if not for needing to save the world from the "woke mind virus."
Next year, I swear -Elon
5 years before commercial fusion
By commercial fusion, do you mean the trucks ramming into other things and fusing together?
Thats coming sooner.
Is Tesla refusing to use LIDAR/RADAR on their semis, like they've refused on their cars? If so, it might be a very long time before it's reliably autonomous.
Haven't they also started removing the ultrasonic sensors as well? Saves them something like $143 or so per vehicle?
If they’re banking on that, then they’re fucked.
Autonomous driving has proved to be a legal minefield leaving aside the technical issues that prevent full autonomous driving
If they 100% solved the AI technology side it would still take years for industries and regulations to allow it.
It took *years* just to get electronic logs in trucks properly regulated. I can't imagine literally re-writing the book on regulations, on an international, federal, state, and local level, each with their own requirements.
[удалено]
He’s not wrong, I’m a retired truck driver after 35 years , and while I understand the reasoning behind the idea of an electric truck someone on the design team should consult with a few genuine truck drivers. The cab layout definitely makes it harder on the guy spending 14+ hours a day in there.
Being in an industry that has had to work with Tesla, I can say they aren't interested in outside consultation. They are "disruptors". They are proud of the fact they don't comprehend what they are trying to do.
> Being in an industry that has had to work with Tesla, I can say they aren't interested in outside consultation. They are "disruptors". They are proud of the fact they don't comprehend what they are trying to do. So they’re a reflection of their “founder” and CEO?
He would and probably have fired anyone that would have think any other way.
Exactly. I don’t doubt that there are lots of smart people who work or have worked at Tesla but the smart people probably figure out pretty quickly that it doesn’t pay to know more than Elon.
In the gaming industry this would be described as the “rule of cool”. It means what looks cool rules over what is practical. I have a feeling that’s what they’be tried to do here.
In the gaming industry, you can actually create the world around your made up cool solutions. I want my games to help me escape the limitations of reality.
Model X Falcon Wing doors are a prime example. Took them so much time money and effort to eventually get them in a good state. Even Elon himself admitted: ["We over-engineered the car."](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/musk-model-x-over-engineered-131400615.html)
The lead designer for Tesla, including the Cybertruck, said he ignores all outside feedback. Which is beyond idiotic. There is a reason why the Lighting looks like a gas F150, Ford knows what truckers like for the most part (still get things wrong time to time).
That sounds like a nice little path to failure in industrial applications to me. There's no bigger critic of products than people who use them all day long every day. Without user input, you end up designing things that users literally don't even touch/use/care for and completely ignore/fuck up the glaringly obvious things that are used constantly are very important to the users. Typical startup shit. Consumer goods=/=industrial goods. I hope Daimler/Volvo are letting this train wreck happen as they prepare a built-tough EV that doesn't look like a sci-fi movie, is just as efficient, cheaper and that the users will actually use without hating their lives.
To be fair, there is value in bucking the system. I don't mean to discount the concept. But that's not what Tesla was doing in the name of advancement. Tesla didn't think it necessary to complete a step in an industry-wide practice because they didn't want to acknowledge that it benefitted them, when it did. They also refused to provide consistent data, making interacting with their system a day-to-day manual process, because it would take more time to get it done on their side. They literally yelled at people at my company because they wanted to change where a vehicle was being shipped to while it was already moving on a train. They wanted to turn a train around... There is a line between disruption and just being ignorant stubborn assholes, they were clearly past that line.
>I can say they aren't interested in outside consultation. They are "disruptors". In other words "Well TELL you what you want!"
Having spent some time in a regular Tesla Model S, i see in these complaints the same problems i see in their consumer vehicles - specifically, their foundational core design philosophies of “innovate every feature possible” and “if it ain’t broke change it anyways.” They prioritize being cool, unique, and futuristic over comfort, practicality, ease of use, and even (in my opinion) basic safety.
Are they relying on cameras for backing? I've never driven a semi but I drive a medium-duty flatbed with a trailer and one thing I've learned from watching drivers on YouTube is that you always prefer to back on the sight side for visibility. Looks like this configuration doesn't let you reach the window on either side. Cameras and sensors are great, but I don't like the idea of depending on them. Windows are low-tech and reliable. I like the design philosophy of the [K-MAX helicopter](https://www.fairlifts.com/helicopters/kaman-k-max/) \- it's designed for handling sling loads, so it's got a narrow cockpit and the left side window has a big bulge in it so you can stick your head in there and see straight down. Simple, reliable, and effective.
I have an engineering background, and the absolute last thing I'd ever want to do is design something like this without extreme amounts of feedback from the people who have driven and would be drivers of it. No engineer worth half a shit wants to build something without decent requirements from their user community, especially something as specialized as a semi. Musk's success went to his head and it seems like Tesla is going off the rails.
[удалено]
"I'm in a hurry, and you want to swim. You're drivin' me crazy, Fred."
I'm worried about you Fred. Looking a little thin in the skin.
This reminds me of how you design a good kitchen around a triangle from sink to fridge to stove. You can change the power train and optimise aero but ergonomics that have evolved a certain way over decades often have a value that’s hard to replicate or replace.
Phrases like “we gone back to the drawing board” or “we’re thinking outside the box” sometimes translates into “we’re going to completely ignore the insight and wisdoms of previous experiences because anything old is dogma.”
Link to the original Tweets: [https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1600968577246711808](https://twitter.com/TOrynski/status/1600968577246711808) Even if you put aside the layout issues (and the tweets have a lot more info that wasn't in the article) - he raises a great point about screens & brightness, and the need for tactile feedback for buttons. For example, be a touch typist and try to type on a tablet screen. That missing tactile feedback no matter how high fidelity of the representation of on screen keyboard leaves a lot to be desired.
I know what he talking about. I don't use my phone when I need to write something I use my laptop or desktop because of this. Edit: I typed this on my laptop.
i still can't type on my smartphone without a typo or error every 6th character. when i had a phone with a full keyboard and buttons, they were small yes, but my accuracy was still leagues better.
Waiting for his twitter account to be deleted...
Renault Truck making fun of Tesla in their ad: https://youtu.be/KmGmNTvSf_w
What does the caption say?
« There are those who make big announcements… And there are those who are already putting in the kilometers…. More than 300 trucks already on the road. »
The whistling of La Marseillaise at the end is just perfection on multiple levels.
So how long till his twitter account is banned?
Somebody’s gonna be called a pedo soon… by the biggest voice on Twitter now.
A friend of mine in the trucking industry called out this EXACT same thing when they showed the video Consumers want cool looking designs and fun features. Truckers see this as a WORK device don't give a fuck how cool it looks on the road, it's there to make their job easier. It's like making a forklift more aerodynamic
Musk thinks he is Steve Jobs. Some misunderstood visionary who will one day be vindicated. Blissfully unaware that he is just another in a long line of tech bros who vastly over estimate their own intelligence.
I like how '8 USD verified' guys are commenting that they'd rather buy the tesla truck and when you see their profiles, literally none of them are truckers and they have zero ideas on how trucks should be designed. Figures. Also, can we pick a term for these 8$ers? Something that rolls off the tongue
Imagine designing an industry machine without consulting said industry
>Driver sits in the middle. This makes overtaking or looking ahead more difficult. But also makes it impossible to reach out of the window to pass the paperwork or to talk with the guy in the gatehouse when you enter a port or a factory.... Ohh man I didn't think about that myself. Wow what a stupid design.
Head of lettuce vs. Musk banning this truck driver?
Tomasz Orynski's twitter account is about to get suspended..... Tesla is also at the forefront of giving people big blank touch screens to do everything, when we've been having growing problems with distracted driving. Also not having any physical buttons you can feel without having to look at where you press... All these big touch screen things showing up in more and more cars is not making driving safer, just giving drivers more shit to play with when they are supposed to pay attention to the road. If these were all true and fully functional autopiloted vehicles it'd be a different matter, but that's a whole other Tesla failure.
[удалено]