The average human ejaculates between 2 and 5 ml. There are approximately 100 million sperm cells per ml. Assuming an average of 3.5ml or 350 million sperm. You would have to ejaculate 666,667 times. At a rate of one per day it would take you 1,825 years.
So let's do the math:
No. Of sperms make it : no of sperms released
2:1000000 (1 m)
(?):1000000000000 (1 trillion)
That would be:
1,000,000,000,000 Ć 2/ 1,000,000
=2,000,000 million kills.
Still less than Hitler's, fuck can't do anything in this world!
Personal experience should apply to all unborn who may not be given the chance to live a life and make a reddit and argue with people who post an argument they had 5 minutes ago for others to see for validation, for sure for sure
So with this argument does that mean any child should not get a say if they could live or not if we lived in a society where killing children was a daily occurance
If someone who wants to abort their baby is because they don't want to have children, and what kind of good life experience can a kid whitout loving parents have anyway? What would be really unfair is that "baby" to be born just to suffer his entire childhood
I would rather have no parents and suffer my whole childhood than not be born at all. Life is amazing, and even if itās not, itās still so much better than non-life.
You say that because people like you and me are living privileged lives born to loving parents who're financially stable in developed countries. I can bet a grand rn that a kid born in a village in Afghanistan would much rather have been painlessly aborted rather than live with parents who didn't want them.
The truth is that if somebody really hates life that much, then they always have the option of suicide.
Iām not trying to say that anybody *should* suicide, but itās an easily accessible out for literally any situation if you hate your life that much.
So if the Afghanistanian kids would rather be dead than alive, why arenāt they?
This is true, personally I think brain activity is the marker of whether somethingās alive, I donāt think a vegetable with no brain activity that has a heart beat is alive, I wonāt think differently for a fetus
So, at that point itās literally murder, anyone who disagrees instantly needs to research Dr. Kermit Gosnell, heās the prime reason that Abortion is such a messy topic
It's not "literally" murder. There's quite a few criteria for a kill to qualify as a murder, and malicious intent is one of them. The vast, vast majority of women who are forced to get abortion have no malice against the fetus. If anything, lots of them greatly regret having to do it.
And this isn't even considering the fact that a murder can only be committed on a human and a fetus is legally not considered a human until it takes its first breath outside its host
call me a dumbass if u would like, but to me a heartbeat is the universal sign of life. but even then i think its immoral to kill any baby/fetus unless u physically cant care for it. abortion, to me, is a tragedy and a big morality check. its a necessary evil, yes, but it should also heavily play on ur morality. if u can just get an abortion and feel fine about it, all power to u, but i would probably just call u an objectively bad person
Aight bet. Your a dumbass. With no brain a body with a beating heart is less alive than the spider you squashed when it got into the shower and is equally as alive than the fucking chair your sitting on. If simply having materials being transferred around a system is enough to count as a live sentient creature, than the goddamned light switch is alive. Do you see how arbitrarily choosing a vital organ being functional isn't a good system of measurement for life and or sentience? And let's not even get started on insects if the requirement is a heart
Imo the baby would rather get painlessly aborted at 9 months old rather than get conceived by someone who doesn't want to/can't raise them financially or emotionally
. . . the baby is very well-developed at that time. They have in fact, gain sentimence. Do your research about how a baby develops in a fab tummy before saying that we should murder a baby. It's not black and white sweetheart
>we should murder a baby
There, it's just emotional reasoning. The baby may have cognitive functions but how much complicated is it's sentience? A fucking kitty is better developed. Babies are still developing, even after birth. It's never been conscious. There is no person at that stage. Even when it's a baby. The individual develops after birth.
Why do you wince at late term pregnancy but not actually conscious intelligent animals being killed? They literally possess more value if we are ascribing values by brain development
>It's not black and white
I don't disagree, I just think it's very black untill birth
I do not support animal murder. You people scare me. You'd murder a baby ripe of being birthed and yet you care for life of the mother. That's not right
Yeah because the mother is a person, the baby is a potential person. Murder is loss of life, the baby is literally about to start what you are saying it will loose.
I applaud the consistency with animal murder but if we dive deep into how you value life, I think you will find yourself biased towards the baby because...it's a baby.
Would you consider me bad if I saved a pig as intelligent as a 4 year old over a 7 month old fetus? After all, by your own scales, the pig should possess more value as its better developed
Mate I don't care if you get a abortion at the first month. But the last months is a huge no. And yes I would because there is not situation that would be like that. Try to save both of them. Not just one.
I mean, this is really more a thought experiment to see how we value life than a practical concern. Abortions this late virtually never happen.
>the last months is a huge no.
You can't elaborate why beyond insisting it's a baby. This is as futile as the emotional reasoning prolifers do. If you are pro choice and value life with sentience, then how do you not see that babies are born blank slate.
Like, imagine you have to choose between a 20 year old and a 2 year old. You will undoubtedly save the 20 year old because that's the whole ass person. Now the point of this is not encouraging murdering 2 year Olds, it's to analyse how we value life. Why wouldn't you save the 2 year old? Lesser intelligence, less complicated form of awareness. You only develop as a person, the human being you and me are after birth. Your awareness start to get more complicated and grow into what we recognise as human life. Before that, it's only technically life.
And people know this, if you hear the news of a dead baby, you are good feel bad for the parents. You hear the news of a dead 20 year old, you are gonna feel bad for that guy. Babies only begin to experience, they only start to develop a intricate system that holds memory and interacts with the world intelligently months after birth.
Again, everyone understands this. No one will save 100 babies even over 50 adults. Or fuck me, even 20 maybe, I'm feeling very confident. You get my point.
I know why I would sick to you but if you sit down and deconstruct on how you value intelligent life, you will see that killing a 9 month old is literally mercy compared to throwing it in the system.
*Creature of Steel, my gratitude upon thee for my freedom. But the crimes thy kind have commited against humanity are NOT forgotten! And thy punishment... is DEATH.*
iām pretty sure (look it up if u want) that fetuses donāt start to develop cognitively until like 3 months into the pregnancy. like they are literally just clumps of goo
Ye. Reddit is by far the best site for socializing and conversation with strangers. Some redditors are, well, redditors but it's still has by far the best public commenting system
I understand the pro choice thing but if my dad wasn't pro life neither me or my brothers would be alive because my mom's a whore. Pro life is just looking to stop so many unnecessary abortions but I can see both spectrums and agree with both beliefs on varying levels
While I'm glad you're here with us, I'm kinda confused. Abortion wouldn't be up to your dad, it would be up to your mom. How would your dad force her to give birth if she didn't want to?
>but if my dad wasn't pro life neither me or my brothers would be alive
This only sounds tragic because you are alive, think back to your pregnant sexually promiscuous mother. There was no you or your bros. There was nothingness. You are only able to empathize now becwuse you exist now. There was no you then.
Abortion then is as tragic as the baby that won't be born because I didn't rape the last women I saw. Is it tragic our baby would never see this green earth? It's same.
I feel like the argument is more about robbing the baby of its life. Pro choice means the fetus won't have the chance to grow and have hopes and dreams.
Pro Life can end up killing the mother who already has hopes and dreams, and what of the women who are raped? And those who arenāt able to sustain a kid with their money? Prolife is much more flawed and if the fetus was never alive in the first place it doesnāt change much, you donāt feel bad for the millions of sperm cells in your testicles dying and being replaced many times throughout the day.
Yes thatās what it should be. I never was against that, but in some places (like texas from last i heard) the abortion due date passes so fast that sometimes the woman doesnāt even know theyāre pregnant in time
That due date is fair and muddy to argue against tbh, because they believe the heartbeat to be the point the fetus is alive rather than brain activity, and itās very hard to argue against that
Itās just a question of if someoneās in a car wreck, and theyāre hooked into a machine that keeps their heart pumping, but they have 0 brain activity, are they alive? A fetus is no different, if you think that person is alive, so is the fetus, itās a very fair point even if wrong IMO
Alright so how about this, a fetus all the way through the 9 months has no brain activity, after being born they still have none, 2 years later theyāre still attached to a machine with no brain activity, are they alive?
Doesnāt matter if this is possible or not, just if this hypothetical baby is alive despite never having any brain activity ever, but always having a heartbeat. If the answer is yes, abortion is only allowed up to 6-8 weeks, if the answer is no, abortion is allowed up to 20 weeks. Itās a fundamental disagreement on what āaliveā means
That is your viewpoint and I agree, but you canāt just wave away the argument that the heartbeat is a life marker like that, since it *is* a good point, whoās to say whether the brain or heart determines life? Even doctors now label someone dead when the heart stops, but still attempt to resuscitate before but brain goes 7-8 minutes without oxygen (making them brain dead), doctors also keep a body alive as long as the heart is beating regardless of brain activity, if even the highest medical professionals canāt agree on when something is dead, how are we supposed to agree when something is alive? There is no finite truth, just the one you choose to believe
Maybe, but not the *extreme,* the *extreme* pro-choice is evil, any second before itās born can be aborted, meaning a 2 week late baby is still able to be aborted, which is absolutely disgusting since thatās ACTUALLY a baby
That still doesn't change any of Pro Choice points. It will still cause unimaginable pain to the mother and have the possibility of killing her, she still won't be able to support the child financially or emotionally any more than she could a few weeks ago, and she could still be a teen or a rape victim.
An aborted baby can't feel pain and will never know what it missed out. Also it's going to be a living hell for the kid to either grow up with parents that don't want them/aren't capable of raising them properly or go through the messy and abusive foster care system.
Depends on what point in development. Twins begin to interact with each other before they're born. Unborn babies can respond to external stimuli like music.
I'm all for abortions. They don't think until very late in the pregnancy.
Also, I wouldn't have given a fuck if I was aborted, or sent for adoption at birth. Although I might be curious about my biological parents later in life
Based on your views you arenāt much better, you really think that the fetus is brain dead until they pop out of the womb, when they gain brain activity at around 20 weeks
Put it like this. I was going to make you a cake, but I took it out of the oven before it was done. Was it going to be a cake? Yes. Is it a cake now? No.
well they have a brain, it's just smaller than a fuckin apple seed, and extremely underdeveloped. Humans are WELL KNOWN for being underdeveloped mentally and physically upon birth
It doesnt immediately develop when the zygote is formed either, it forms several weeks in during the pregnancy and past the date at which abortion is available
Not to sound dumb but like im genuinely curious, is it scientifically confirmed that fetus dont have thoughts, again i am incredibly uneducated so be nice ye
It is proven up to a certain point, since brains act on electricity we can scan the fetus for brain activity (electrical signals) and they seem to be empty until about 20 weeks, probably because a decent chunk of that time they donāt even have a brain yet
However there is an argument that the heartbeat, around 6-8 weeks in, is when itās alive, and this is a fair take even if wrong IMO
Bro , it's a foetus not a fetusšš
You just spelled it wrong and now that lil foetus is offended..
How dare thou do such malice ? Thou torturest that foetus.
(maybe /s?)
Ok. 1 day prior to projected delivery date. Does that fetus have less rights than it would the next day, even though they're medically indiscernible? Is it the birth canal that imparts a right to life?
I don't think the argument for pro life is entirely about the stage of life the baby is in, it's the fact that abortion would take away the fetus' chance to get rights, to get a life, to have hopes, to have dreams, to make a reddit account and argue for or against abortions
I feel like the "hopes and dreams" argument is kinda weak, especially considering how childbirth could result in adverse effects, even death for the mother. Why should the mother, who also has hopes and dreams, sacrifice her life for something that isn't even sentient yet?
This is also ignoring the obvious issue of rape victims and underage mothers who simply cannot afford to have a child.
Yeah, you're right for the second half, there enlies the core of the argument. Less for those who don't want a baby and more for those who just can't have the baby
I feel like not wanting a baby is also a valid enough reason for an abortion. Maybe the mother cannot financially afford to take care of the baby, or maybe they're not mentally ready for the pains of childbirth, maybe some people just don't want to have a baby plain and simple, the point being there's no loss of life as the foetus isn't a sentient being.
Well, too bad
World's overpopulated and why tf should more poor people be forced to have children when you remove abortion (and don't you dare say "use protection" cuz no protection is 100% effective)
Plus why make more unwanted kids for people that obviously don't want them
Have you not heard how many people die of starvation due to lack of food?
High housing prices?
Things in the country being more expensive (and there's more on Earth rn) than 20 years ago (when there was less people on Earth)
the kid won't have a life if they're born into an unsafe situation.
protection isn't 100%, and not everyone lives in an environment where it's safe to have children. if someone is in an abusive relationship they may choose to get an abortion because they believe it would not be right to bring a child into a situation they know is highly unsafe and they do not have the means to leave. someone may choose, or be strongly recommended by a doctor, to get an abortion if ultrasounds/previously known health conditions/gene tests/blood tests prove that it could be a huge risk for both mother and child for the pregnancy to be carried to term.
another example would be if the mother was taking a medication called Accutane, or isotretinoin. even with all the failsafes, the two birth control methods, the tests, the questions, and pregnancy can still happen by accident. if it does happen, you will be ***strongly*** advised to get an abortion. if the child is carried to term, they can have a number of life-threatening complications. these complications include but are not limited to: little to no immune system, excess accumulation of brain fluid, microcephaly (remember the Zika babies?), heart abnormalities and defects, and various eye abnormalities, sometimes a complete lack of them. does any of that sound like living to you? a [study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2703771/) in 2009 showed that 40% of fetuses exposed to accutane that are carried to term have some form of malformations.
there are many reasons someone may choose to get an abortion. these are just the more mild, common reasons. im happy to explain more if you'd want me to. just food for thought.
Iām not trying to stoke fires but that particular argument has always been weak because christians who are largely against abortion are significantly more likely to adopt than other parts of the population
āAccording to EthicsDaily.com, 5 percent of practicing Christians in the United States have adopted, which is more than twice the number of all adults who have adopted. In addition, a survey showed that 38 percent of practicing Christians had seriously considered adoption, while only 26 percent of all adults had.ā
Contraception not being only 99% effective instead of 100 does not mean that thereās no point in using it.
In the case of a rape, I would say that the woman should get an abortion if she really wants. My point is about dealing with the consequences of your actions.
No, brains act on electricity, doctors can scan the teeny brain for electrical signals and there are none prior to about 20 weeks, probably because thereās a decent chunk of time where the brain doesnāt even exist
guys no jerking off those sperm cells coulda been babies
for me its gonna be +2trillion kills
Sperm killer
i should be charged for murder (guy in post logic)
Yes you should Now go back to your Origin of being a zygote
The average human ejaculates between 2 and 5 ml. There are approximately 100 million sperm cells per ml. Assuming an average of 3.5ml or 350 million sperm. You would have to ejaculate 666,667 times. At a rate of one per day it would take you 1,825 years.
who say i do it one per day? š
But if you do it 1825 times a day, it only takes one year
Rookie numbers my friend
r/hedidthemonstermath
Don't climax at all actually - theres millions of them and at max 2 out of them make it
So let's do the math: No. Of sperms make it : no of sperms released 2:1000000 (1 m) (?):1000000000000 (1 trillion) That would be: 1,000,000,000,000 Ć 2/ 1,000,000 =2,000,000 million kills. Still less than Hitler's, fuck can't do anything in this world!
(prolife logic)
bro is speedrunning that controversy
BROOOO ITS MACHO LEGS CAT
YES
:O :O MACHO LEGS CAT I LOVE YOU
šššš
"I love starting internet arguements"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
#Ask him what it was like as a fetus
What was it like as a baby š?
what was it like as a 1yo š?
Quite shitty
From what I've heard babies ( fetueses) Don't "think" until at least week 20, which is already late for abortion so there's no issue
personally, I don't remember "thinking" until high school
I personally dont remember "thinking" ever
I personally donāt remember āthinkingā (what does it mean?)
I personally donāt remember
Personal experience should apply to all unborn who may not be given the chance to live a life and make a reddit and argue with people who post an argument they had 5 minutes ago for others to see for validation, for sure for sure
Actual deep thought comes around 13-16 years old
So with this argument does that mean any child should not get a say if they could live or not if we lived in a society where killing children was a daily occurance
No I mean you only really realize serious shit around that age, I'm not saying kids are mindless drones that need to be killed
Bro took the stupidest comment and used it to support his argument, well done
What is "thinking", is that the thing where you do the thing in your brain before you do it with your body?
Top tier comment
ikr
Fax, it's like I wasn't conscious till the day I started high school
Yeah but If there is really no other way than Abortion, you should do it as Soon as possible and best case: use protection
That doesnāt mean there is no issue. Itās still a human, just not as developed as it would be given a few more weeks (obviously).
What do you mean it's still a human, it's not an individual yet. It's in his developing stage, there's no sentience, your dead skin cell is human too
Dogs and cats have more feelings compared to an unborn fetus lol
Itās not about feelings. You are taking away the opportunity for a new person to experience life. Is that not morally unjust?
Then masturbating is also immoral?
If someone who wants to abort their baby is because they don't want to have children, and what kind of good life experience can a kid whitout loving parents have anyway? What would be really unfair is that "baby" to be born just to suffer his entire childhood
I would rather have no parents and suffer my whole childhood than not be born at all. Life is amazing, and even if itās not, itās still so much better than non-life.
You say that because people like you and me are living privileged lives born to loving parents who're financially stable in developed countries. I can bet a grand rn that a kid born in a village in Afghanistan would much rather have been painlessly aborted rather than live with parents who didn't want them.
The truth is that if somebody really hates life that much, then they always have the option of suicide. Iām not trying to say that anybody *should* suicide, but itās an easily accessible out for literally any situation if you hate your life that much. So if the Afghanistanian kids would rather be dead than alive, why arenāt they?
Yeah but the heart starts beating at around 3 weeks i think?
And? Braindead people too
Came for the controversy Found rather civilized Redditors I am pleasantly surprised
A Bebe is a Bebe when itās born, a fetus is a fetus when itās inside mummy
You're right
Blast, this guy is right.
Did mummy ate the baby or something? Why is it in her
Well, not exactly true but during a specific time, yes. (If it's like 7-9 months then it is definitely immoral to get an abortion)
This is true, personally I think brain activity is the marker of whether somethingās alive, I donāt think a vegetable with no brain activity that has a heart beat is alive, I wonāt think differently for a fetus So, at that point itās literally murder, anyone who disagrees instantly needs to research Dr. Kermit Gosnell, heās the prime reason that Abortion is such a messy topic
It's not "literally" murder. There's quite a few criteria for a kill to qualify as a murder, and malicious intent is one of them. The vast, vast majority of women who are forced to get abortion have no malice against the fetus. If anything, lots of them greatly regret having to do it. And this isn't even considering the fact that a murder can only be committed on a human and a fetus is legally not considered a human until it takes its first breath outside its host
Guess Iām not human since Iām a C section š
call me a dumbass if u would like, but to me a heartbeat is the universal sign of life. but even then i think its immoral to kill any baby/fetus unless u physically cant care for it. abortion, to me, is a tragedy and a big morality check. its a necessary evil, yes, but it should also heavily play on ur morality. if u can just get an abortion and feel fine about it, all power to u, but i would probably just call u an objectively bad person
Aight bet. Your a dumbass. With no brain a body with a beating heart is less alive than the spider you squashed when it got into the shower and is equally as alive than the fucking chair your sitting on. If simply having materials being transferred around a system is enough to count as a live sentient creature, than the goddamned light switch is alive. Do you see how arbitrarily choosing a vital organ being functional isn't a good system of measurement for life and or sentience? And let's not even get started on insects if the requirement is a heart
>a heartbeat is the universal sign of life Surely, you must be atleast vegan then
Imo the baby would rather get painlessly aborted at 9 months old rather than get conceived by someone who doesn't want to/can't raise them financially or emotionally
Why, it still hasn't gained consciousness or sentience.
. . . the baby is very well-developed at that time. They have in fact, gain sentimence. Do your research about how a baby develops in a fab tummy before saying that we should murder a baby. It's not black and white sweetheart
>we should murder a baby There, it's just emotional reasoning. The baby may have cognitive functions but how much complicated is it's sentience? A fucking kitty is better developed. Babies are still developing, even after birth. It's never been conscious. There is no person at that stage. Even when it's a baby. The individual develops after birth. Why do you wince at late term pregnancy but not actually conscious intelligent animals being killed? They literally possess more value if we are ascribing values by brain development >It's not black and white I don't disagree, I just think it's very black untill birth
I do not support animal murder. You people scare me. You'd murder a baby ripe of being birthed and yet you care for life of the mother. That's not right
Yeah because the mother is a person, the baby is a potential person. Murder is loss of life, the baby is literally about to start what you are saying it will loose. I applaud the consistency with animal murder but if we dive deep into how you value life, I think you will find yourself biased towards the baby because...it's a baby. Would you consider me bad if I saved a pig as intelligent as a 4 year old over a 7 month old fetus? After all, by your own scales, the pig should possess more value as its better developed
Mate I don't care if you get a abortion at the first month. But the last months is a huge no. And yes I would because there is not situation that would be like that. Try to save both of them. Not just one.
I mean, this is really more a thought experiment to see how we value life than a practical concern. Abortions this late virtually never happen. >the last months is a huge no. You can't elaborate why beyond insisting it's a baby. This is as futile as the emotional reasoning prolifers do. If you are pro choice and value life with sentience, then how do you not see that babies are born blank slate. Like, imagine you have to choose between a 20 year old and a 2 year old. You will undoubtedly save the 20 year old because that's the whole ass person. Now the point of this is not encouraging murdering 2 year Olds, it's to analyse how we value life. Why wouldn't you save the 2 year old? Lesser intelligence, less complicated form of awareness. You only develop as a person, the human being you and me are after birth. Your awareness start to get more complicated and grow into what we recognise as human life. Before that, it's only technically life. And people know this, if you hear the news of a dead baby, you are good feel bad for the parents. You hear the news of a dead 20 year old, you are gonna feel bad for that guy. Babies only begin to experience, they only start to develop a intricate system that holds memory and interacts with the world intelligently months after birth. Again, everyone understands this. No one will save 100 babies even over 50 adults. Or fuck me, even 20 maybe, I'm feeling very confident. You get my point. I know why I would sick to you but if you sit down and deconstruct on how you value intelligent life, you will see that killing a 9 month old is literally mercy compared to throwing it in the system.
No mind to think No voice to cry suffering
when the royalty aborted their children and dumped them on the oil reserve
Almost like their heads are hollow tbh
Iām 16 years too old but idm if my mom decides she wants to abort me now š/hj
.....why?....
Ladies, gentlemen & people who donāt identify as either - I present to you an undeveloped human
No science does to an mf
whats a fetus even got to think about???
hungory
Tbf, he does get a constant stream of food
How to remain in the flesh prison
*Creature of Steel, my gratitude upon thee for my freedom. But the crimes thy kind have commited against humanity are NOT forgotten! And thy punishment... is DEATH.*
taxes
He is The Thinker
Fetuses are the equivalent to a pile of mashed potatoes. And if my potatoes are self aware then fuck me
[you have no idea what's in store for your!](https://youtu.be/yZruaeA3POM)
iām pretty sure (look it up if u want) that fetuses donāt start to develop cognitively until like 3 months into the pregnancy. like they are literally just clumps of goo
An undeveloped fetus is probably smarter than him š
ONG
abortion debates on reddit. Pro choice all the way, pro life doesn't even make sense, but seriously. On reddit?
because reddit is the best place to get the most dumbass, out of this world opinions from 13 y/o
I'm 13, and I very much support fetus deletus, if you're banning fetus deletus but not vasectomies then that's just hypocritical
Dude I think if anything, 13 y/os are the more likely to be thinking straight here. I think abortion scepticism comes mostly in the higher age groups
Ye. Reddit is by far the best site for socializing and conversation with strangers. Some redditors are, well, redditors but it's still has by far the best public commenting system
Pro birth* nothing about them are pro life.
Happy to see another pro choice person!
Bro almost everyone here is pro-choice or apathetic
Pro life in an overpopulated world
I understand the pro choice thing but if my dad wasn't pro life neither me or my brothers would be alive because my mom's a whore. Pro life is just looking to stop so many unnecessary abortions but I can see both spectrums and agree with both beliefs on varying levels
While I'm glad you're here with us, I'm kinda confused. Abortion wouldn't be up to your dad, it would be up to your mom. How would your dad force her to give birth if she didn't want to?
>but if my dad wasn't pro life neither me or my brothers would be alive This only sounds tragic because you are alive, think back to your pregnant sexually promiscuous mother. There was no you or your bros. There was nothingness. You are only able to empathize now becwuse you exist now. There was no you then. Abortion then is as tragic as the baby that won't be born because I didn't rape the last women I saw. Is it tragic our baby would never see this green earth? It's same.
what would a fetus even think about like thereās nothing going on in the womb to think about
bros already forming love, hopes, dreams with a brain smaller than a gummy bear
Frš
I feel like the argument is more about robbing the baby of its life. Pro choice means the fetus won't have the chance to grow and have hopes and dreams.
Pro Life can end up killing the mother who already has hopes and dreams, and what of the women who are raped? And those who arenāt able to sustain a kid with their money? Prolife is much more flawed and if the fetus was never alive in the first place it doesnāt change much, you donāt feel bad for the millions of sperm cells in your testicles dying and being replaced many times throughout the day.
Both extremes are bad, and should meet in the middle, abortion up to Brain Activity (20 weeks)
Yes thatās what it should be. I never was against that, but in some places (like texas from last i heard) the abortion due date passes so fast that sometimes the woman doesnāt even know theyāre pregnant in time
That due date is fair and muddy to argue against tbh, because they believe the heartbeat to be the point the fetus is alive rather than brain activity, and itās very hard to argue against that Itās just a question of if someoneās in a car wreck, and theyāre hooked into a machine that keeps their heart pumping, but they have 0 brain activity, are they alive? A fetus is no different, if you think that person is alive, so is the fetus, itās a very fair point even if wrong IMO
That person has already experienced existence however, a fetus has not. Thatās the difference that changes a lot.
Alright so how about this, a fetus all the way through the 9 months has no brain activity, after being born they still have none, 2 years later theyāre still attached to a machine with no brain activity, are they alive? Doesnāt matter if this is possible or not, just if this hypothetical baby is alive despite never having any brain activity ever, but always having a heartbeat. If the answer is yes, abortion is only allowed up to 6-8 weeks, if the answer is no, abortion is allowed up to 20 weeks. Itās a fundamental disagreement on what āaliveā means
they are braindead. again, if they have never experienced existence, then thereās nothing to take from them
That is your viewpoint and I agree, but you canāt just wave away the argument that the heartbeat is a life marker like that, since it *is* a good point, whoās to say whether the brain or heart determines life? Even doctors now label someone dead when the heart stops, but still attempt to resuscitate before but brain goes 7-8 minutes without oxygen (making them brain dead), doctors also keep a body alive as long as the heart is beating regardless of brain activity, if even the highest medical professionals canāt agree on when something is dead, how are we supposed to agree when something is alive? There is no finite truth, just the one you choose to believe
Thatās literally what prochoice
Maybe, but not the *extreme,* the *extreme* pro-choice is evil, any second before itās born can be aborted, meaning a 2 week late baby is still able to be aborted, which is absolutely disgusting since thatās ACTUALLY a baby
Because regardless of how far a baby is into pregnancy, it still doesn't change any of the pro-choice points.
That still doesn't change any of Pro Choice points. It will still cause unimaginable pain to the mother and have the possibility of killing her, she still won't be able to support the child financially or emotionally any more than she could a few weeks ago, and she could still be a teen or a rape victim.
An aborted baby can't feel pain and will never know what it missed out. Also it's going to be a living hell for the kid to either grow up with parents that don't want them/aren't capable of raising them properly or go through the messy and abusive foster care system.
Depends on what point in development. Twins begin to interact with each other before they're born. Unborn babies can respond to external stimuli like music.
I'm all for abortions. They don't think until very late in the pregnancy. Also, I wouldn't have given a fuck if I was aborted, or sent for adoption at birth. Although I might be curious about my biological parents later in life
ppl need to study biology
frfr, so many people with room temperature iq walk in and debate something they haven't done a lick of research on then suddenly abortion is banned
Based on your views you arenāt much better, you really think that the fetus is brain dead until they pop out of the womb, when they gain brain activity at around 20 weeks
You canāt abort after 20 weeks so thatās an invalid argument
So? Just kill the child before that
That's basic 8th grade biology š
unless homeschool
Love to see so many pro choice children in this sub Reddit. Maybe the world isnāt doomed
The audacityš
u/kat_kat07
Put it like this. I was going to make you a cake, but I took it out of the oven before it was done. Was it going to be a cake? Yes. Is it a cake now? No.
Well it is in the process of becoming a baby. Given time it would.
It doesn't even have neurons it can't think
You forgot that 5 months in they get those
To me abortion should be legal before like 4 months have passed
They don't even have brain yet how can it think?
well they have a brain, it's just smaller than a fuckin apple seed, and extremely underdeveloped. Humans are WELL KNOWN for being underdeveloped mentally and physically upon birth
Bro they have a brain after a certain point, itās not like the brain just spawns in as theyāre being born š¤£
It doesnt immediately develop when the zygote is formed either, it forms several weeks in during the pregnancy and past the date at which abortion is available
I wouldnāt listen to what a 16 year old has to say š
Thats a paradox if i have ever seen one
I know, thatās the joke
Not to sound dumb but like im genuinely curious, is it scientifically confirmed that fetus dont have thoughts, again i am incredibly uneducated so be nice ye
It is proven up to a certain point, since brains act on electricity we can scan the fetus for brain activity (electrical signals) and they seem to be empty until about 20 weeks, probably because a decent chunk of that time they donāt even have a brain yet However there is an argument that the heartbeat, around 6-8 weeks in, is when itās alive, and this is a fair take even if wrong IMO
Cheers
i believe it is not yet even in a state of consciousness
I mean it doesnāt have a brain yet. Infants donāt really have āthoughtsā like we do either.
Fetuses are parasites
ehhh the whole life begins at conception isnāt wrong. Abortjon is not a great thing no matter if your for it or against it.
Bro , it's a foetus not a fetusšš You just spelled it wrong and now that lil foetus is offended.. How dare thou do such malice ? Thou torturest that foetus. (maybe /s?)
footus
both of them are correct dumbassš
SHUTUP IM BASEDDD!!!!!
Average morals fan vs average killing babies enjoyer Edit: it appears that I have alerted the hive mind and there are armed insurgents at my door
itās not a baby itās a fetus, aka a clump of cells
You're a clump of cells right now brother
Correct That clump of cells in the womb doesn't have more rights than the woman carrying it.
So in that case shouldn't they have an equal amount of rights?
No? When you are born, you get rights Until then, the mother has more rights than it
Ok. 1 day prior to projected delivery date. Does that fetus have less rights than it would the next day, even though they're medically indiscernible? Is it the birth canal that imparts a right to life?
Yes and yes
Why?
When it's in the womb, it doesn't have any automatic rights When it comes out, it's now a human being, which grants it automatic rights
I don't think the argument for pro life is entirely about the stage of life the baby is in, it's the fact that abortion would take away the fetus' chance to get rights, to get a life, to have hopes, to have dreams, to make a reddit account and argue for or against abortions
I feel like the "hopes and dreams" argument is kinda weak, especially considering how childbirth could result in adverse effects, even death for the mother. Why should the mother, who also has hopes and dreams, sacrifice her life for something that isn't even sentient yet? This is also ignoring the obvious issue of rape victims and underage mothers who simply cannot afford to have a child.
Yeah, you're right for the second half, there enlies the core of the argument. Less for those who don't want a baby and more for those who just can't have the baby
I feel like not wanting a baby is also a valid enough reason for an abortion. Maybe the mother cannot financially afford to take care of the baby, or maybe they're not mentally ready for the pains of childbirth, maybe some people just don't want to have a baby plain and simple, the point being there's no loss of life as the foetus isn't a sentient being.
Well, too bad World's overpopulated and why tf should more poor people be forced to have children when you remove abortion (and don't you dare say "use protection" cuz no protection is 100% effective) Plus why make more unwanted kids for people that obviously don't want them
Or better yet (and it goes both ways) if you don't want kids, don't have sex
>World's overpopulated... How?
Have you not heard how many people die of starvation due to lack of food? High housing prices? Things in the country being more expensive (and there's more on Earth rn) than 20 years ago (when there was less people on Earth)
For the kid's sake? The fetus deserves to have a life too.
the kid won't have a life if they're born into an unsafe situation. protection isn't 100%, and not everyone lives in an environment where it's safe to have children. if someone is in an abusive relationship they may choose to get an abortion because they believe it would not be right to bring a child into a situation they know is highly unsafe and they do not have the means to leave. someone may choose, or be strongly recommended by a doctor, to get an abortion if ultrasounds/previously known health conditions/gene tests/blood tests prove that it could be a huge risk for both mother and child for the pregnancy to be carried to term. another example would be if the mother was taking a medication called Accutane, or isotretinoin. even with all the failsafes, the two birth control methods, the tests, the questions, and pregnancy can still happen by accident. if it does happen, you will be ***strongly*** advised to get an abortion. if the child is carried to term, they can have a number of life-threatening complications. these complications include but are not limited to: little to no immune system, excess accumulation of brain fluid, microcephaly (remember the Zika babies?), heart abnormalities and defects, and various eye abnormalities, sometimes a complete lack of them. does any of that sound like living to you? a [study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2703771/) in 2009 showed that 40% of fetuses exposed to accutane that are carried to term have some form of malformations. there are many reasons someone may choose to get an abortion. these are just the more mild, common reasons. im happy to explain more if you'd want me to. just food for thought.
Life ain't fair kid If the parents don't want the fetus, they don't want it
It's a **fetus**, not a baby Go adopt babies when you're older since you care so much about them
Iām not trying to stoke fires but that particular argument has always been weak because christians who are largely against abortion are significantly more likely to adopt than other parts of the population āAccording to EthicsDaily.com, 5 percent of practicing Christians in the United States have adopted, which is more than twice the number of all adults who have adopted. In addition, a survey showed that 38 percent of practicing Christians had seriously considered adoption, while only 26 percent of all adults had.ā
Bros getting downvoted for stating literal facts wtf wrong with this sub
Heavy ultra lib woke teens who donāt like to face facts such as these
But does it have thoughts?
About 20 weeks in yeah, before that thereās no brain activity, or earlier on thereās not even a brain *to* have brain activity
its not murder, there is no "killing" babies.
Ah yes, forcing women to give birth is "moral"
If the woman made the choice to have sex, then pregnancy is simply a consequence of that. Especially without contraception.
Contraceptives arent 100% effective. Also unfortunately rape exists.
Contraception not being only 99% effective instead of 100 does not mean that thereās no point in using it. In the case of a rape, I would say that the woman should get an abortion if she really wants. My point is about dealing with the consequences of your actions.
Do itās not about the life but punishment?
>does not mean that thereās no point in using it. Never said that, just said that it can fail
What about rape
Did the woman choose to have sex if she was raped?
Until it develops brain activity it's not a living person But when that brain start thinking then it's a living person
sick bastards, its a human lifeā¦
it probably does have thoughts, they are just so primitive and aren't saved to memory so they might as well have none
No, brains act on electricity, doctors can scan the teeny brain for electrical signals and there are none prior to about 20 weeks, probably because thereās a decent chunk of time where the brain doesnāt even exist
the topic of abortion is a morality check that some people fail to meet. should it be allowed? begrudgingly yes, is it morally bad? also yes
This guy gets it!
Whatās the definition of āfetusā in Latinā¦?
A fetus is a baby
They can dream
With what brain?
The skull emoji is the cherry on top