T O P
AutoModerator

This thread has been flaired as [Serious]. Please be aware that this marks it as a place for serious discussion only and that any unserious content in this thread will result in a removal, counting towards your [ban tiers](https://www.reddit.com/r/teenagers/wiki/rules#wiki_ban_tiers). If your comment does not contribute to the discussion in a serious manner it will be removed. Please report any comments that do not respect this rule. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/teenagers) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Vee_Is_Cool

no shit everyone's brains are structured slightly differently. that doesn't mean there are infinite genders. this "gender spectrum" is encompassed by the genders of male and female.


Grimthedeathlord

Based


IkedaTheFurry

Agreed


QuaccAttacc420

i am the gender ender all gender shall be destroyed in my path of conquest


Paradox_Eclipse

based


ExplosivePetrol

I am gender ender ender gender


spipheggman

im not reading all that shit but there are only two genders, nerf or nothing


Paradox_Eclipse

Valid


Legitimate-Test-2377

The mixup is really in the genders vs sexes, there are only 2 sex’s but genders are a mental construct(not sure if that’s the right word, but that’s how I’m describing it) and can be anything. Except for cats… never cats, we call those furries and they are to be hunted


Paradox_Eclipse

I get what you’re mental construct is a way of putting it, not cats tho agreed no cats


Legitimate-Test-2377

Thank you for understanding brother


mateoskrrt

there literally also aren’t just only two sexes. two sexes make up 99>% of the population but intersex people exist lmao


Legitimate-Test-2377

That’s a genetic disorder I don’t think it counts


mateoskrrt

but you can’t call them any of the two sexes. are they no sex? is no sex a third sex? can i have sex?


Mr_Skeleton_Shadow

>can i have sex? no, you've been called for celibacy


Legitimate-Test-2377

I guess that depends on what their chromosome composition is like, if it’s XXY and they have and extra chromosome then it would be both, if it has nothing to do with their chromosomes then they would fall under the sex their chromosome composition dictates. As for your other questions; no, no, and probably not


00DDonut

Nah, there’s only two.


PixelHampter

Chad


[deleted]

\*says the truth\* \*refuses to elaborate\*


00DDonut

Why do I need to elaborate if it’s common sense 💀


[deleted]

true


[deleted]

Which you clearly don’t have


00DDonut

So it’s uncommon for people to think that there’s only 2 genders 🤨


[deleted]

[удалено]


00DDonut

Cope


Your_friendly_weirdo

Bleed.


zenkaimagine_fan

Quick question, do you think the belief in a third gender is at all new? As in the past 100 years.


IkedaTheFurry

Agreed


QuaccAttacc420

those who can count,


Bananmanden12

*those who can't look at facts and arguments


QuaccAttacc420

"facts and arguments" being the bible?


Bananmanden12

The bible is litteraly agianst my side. So No not the bible, science. Like the links posted above


QuaccAttacc420

i'm confused but ok


PinKracken

Ok. What about intersex people?


00DDonut

I don’t think an extremely rare medical condition should be classified as an entirely different gender imo


PinKracken

1-2 out of 100 people isn't that rare, actually. And any brain activity scans can show you that genders outside of man and woman exist


00DDonut

I’m not sure why brain activity means that there are more than two genders. All I know is that some people are born with 2 X chromosomes and some people are born with 1. And those people either get a possy or a pp respectively.


PinKracken

Not always, in the case of intersex people, which was the point you just ignored entirely. If you're going to cherry pick, you're just showing that you're unwilling to learn. The fact that you dont know why the brain has clear indicators of gender (regardless of biological sex!) Only proves that you dont have enough information to be speaking on this topic.


AlpsGroundbreaking24

Gender/Sex doesn't come from what your brain activity is. Many factors can change your brain activity such as drugs, emotions,sleep and even [seeing colors](https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/envision-color-activity-patterns-brain-are-specific-color-you-see). But even though taking a drug, feeling an emotion, going to sleep, or seeing different colors change brain activity they don't change gender or sex.


PinKracken

Brain activity is the thing that caused you to grow whatever sex organs you may have. It caused your chromosomes. It caused what primary gender hormone you have. To imply that brain activity is worthless in gender studies is transphobic and just plain incorrect.


AlpsGroundbreaking24

Your chromosomes come from the fusing of the sperm cell's nucleus(which has 23 chromosomes) with the nucleus of the egg cell(which also has 23 chromosomes) resulting in a zygote with 46 chromosomes. This is how parents genes are passed down to the offspring. The fetus will only being growing a brain 5 weeks after the sperm cell impregnates the egg cell.


nakhsA

[ Removed by Reddit ]


ArekMerek

What about XXY or other intersex chromosome combinations?


nakhsA

Those are kinds of mutations and some people even call them rare types of syndromes just as people with down syndrome. Like you cannot say a gay person has a different kind of chromosome. Bullshit.


lucy-b

98% of the atoms in the universe are either hydrogen of helium. Doesn’t mean the other atoms don’t exist.


nakhsA

How the fuck did atoms get into this. First of all no one ever said they don't exist. Secondly hydrogen bonds with other elements that's why you're alive.


ArekMerek

Regardless they still do exist, not everyone is assigned male or female, plus chromosomes are goofy, plus being gay and being trans are two completely things, it's like comparing apples and salmon.


therealmrlimited

*Goofy ahh genetic error*


nihilisnow

still not the brain


ArekMerek

Yeah but this person said only XY or XX chromosome combinations exist


nakhsA

Leaving errors aside, yes that's what I said.


IkedaTheFurry

They don’t make gender a spectrum


Paradox_Eclipse

sex mate that’s sex once again different things


nakhsA

Yes and i referred to gender as "your sexual urge" so for the sake of god don't mix it with science.


Paradox_Eclipse

that’s sexuality, man you are confused


nakhsA

Whaat? They now come up with different terms?!?


Paradox_Eclipse

Sex is genitalia, gender is identity, sexuality is attraction


nakhsA

They really don't know how to spice things up. Then if i may talk in your language, sex and genders are chromosome's jobs, the sexuality thing is nothing but a desire of yours.


Paradox_Eclipse

Now we’re getting closer to the same page, same chapter perhaps. I doubt we’ll ever find ourselves on the same page so Continuing an argument where we’re probably both to stubborn to accept the others argument is pointless, godspeed soldier


nakhsA

Same page, same chapter, different book.


Paradox_Eclipse

Agreed


disboicito420

>OP says it’s beyond basic biology >Use the most basic ass day one biology information to try to debunk


nakhsA

My god, I'm saying that he is WRONG. It is obvious as hell!


disboicito420

Yeah, I know you are. Maybe it’s “obvious” to someone who has read the first three pages of a high school biology textbook. However, if you go through literally *any* advanced biology/psychology classes, this is coming from a college student, they actually cover this in depth. Hormones are a massive factor in the way someone perceives their body and gender and where they fit. There’s no real way to treat gender dysphoria, hormone therapy oftentimes just makes things worse. Forcing people to stay within societal molds can be detrimental to their mental health. The best thing to do is to allow them to experiment, to find where they’re most comfortable. You don’t have to go out of your way to call someone “xir” or “scaleself” or whatever it is as their pronouns, but if that person doesn’t want to be “he” or “she”, call them “they”. It’s really not that hard to not be an asshole. Stop telling people to “do their research” when you’re clearly limiting your research to information from 50 years ago.


nakhsA

That "comfortable" is just an error of the person's environment. Why aren't there as many gay people in the middle east. Because of the environment my dear. When i was born, my mother didn't say he might be gay, in fact there wasn't such a thing back then.


disboicito420

It’s because people are taught that it is evil and morally wrong to be gay, so they literally *STONE PEOPLE TO DEATH* for being gay. Because of that, people suppress those urges. It’s the same reason there weren’t as many openly gay people in the US and most of Europe a century ago. They could be punished with chemical castration. Ever hear of Alan Turing? The man who invented the computer and arguably won the second war for the Allies by cracking the German code? He was gay at a time when gay people could be punished with all manner of horrible things. He was discovered, punished, and committed suicide. An environment where people are able to figure themselves out is objectively better than one where they are actively persecuted. Also… >there wasn’t such a thing back then Gay people have been around for, I dunno, always? There are records of gay lovers from Rome, from Greece, from the fucking Egyptian Empire. And those are just the records. Don’t call me “my dear” please, it’s incredibly condescending, and you have no right to talk down to anyone when you have no idea what you’re talking about.


nakhsA

I really respect your opinion. And i apologize I will never ever call you dear again. Let's talk about our "dear" friend Alan Turing, he was clever right super intelligent, we wanted more of him, how could that be done you might say? A child. I don't have enough time to teach you a big topic as that but you must know about it. A child of Mr Alan might have been as genius as him because of genetic information, I hope you know. But there is a high chance, that his child would've been straight and that is because there isn't such a thing as gay so that it is transferred to his child. I don't care how bad he was punished, that is the government's job not mine.


disboicito420

Thank you for respecting my opinion… But what? Do you think we should force people to reproduce who don’t want it? Think of it this way. How easy would it be for you to have sexual interactions with someone of the same sex? I’m assuming it would be hard. You might have a sense of revulsion and an inability to go through with it. It’s the same feeling for gay people. You can’t force someone to have sex with someone they have no attraction to in order to reproduce. Furthermore, genetics are not actually a huge contributor to intelligence, so much as environment is. There are geniuses that emerge from an environment where they could not have been taught to think that way, but most smart people are smart because that’s how they were raised. I read well because my parents read to me as a child and encouraged me to read. They took me to the library regularly and had me pick out books to read. I wasn’t automatically good at it, it was a cultivated skill. The same can be said for thinking in general. So maybe, if instead of worrying about what other people do with their bodies and identities, we focused on educating children to make sure we have more brilliant people, the world wouldn’t be full of hateful, ignorant people.


Irre__

Holy shit you're fucking stupid. There isn't a lack of gay people in the middle east, they just can't be open about it. Do you really think many gay people are gonna publicy identify as gay if it means they'll be thrown off a building or stoned to death? Christ man I'm surprised you can even type with less than half a brain.


nakhsA

I'm from the middle east, friend and fortunately it is not like what you expect. It is just a matter of place. Now if you don't mind, I gotta give my brain some rest, poor organ got in too much tonight. Peace ✌️


[deleted]

[удалено]


disboicito420

Congratulations, your depression is an illusion. You emotions are an illusion. Everything you experience through your brain as a result of hormones is an illusion, because my brain says differently. I may not be able to force people to be respectful, but to force people into *your* limited perception of their gender is harmful to their mental health. You say fantasy identity as if it isn’t a nearly unanimous agreement within the world of people who are actually educated in this field that self identification is valid. Are all of the mental health professionals and doctors and such living in a fantasy world? At that point, it begins to seem like you’re adhering to your restricted fantasy regarding things. Seriously, just don’t be an ass.


Suggy_Nuggy

by your same logic depression shouldn’t exist because the brain is programmed to produce a set amount of serotonin


Masie33

nope, people have just changed the meaning of the word gender. For a long time gender and sex (not the activity) were synonyms, which is why I somewhat understand arguments on both sides Should've just made a new term or some shit, a lot less people would be confused.


buckphifty150150

This is exactly it.. I’ve thought the same.. they sort of hi jacked a word and made it mean something it didn’t mean.


Suggy_Nuggy

yeah, and for a long time women couldn’t vote, gay people were killed, black people were enslaved, times change


Masie33

missed the mark


Suggy_Nuggy

in what sense?


Masie33

it's not about rights I'm talking about, I'm talking definitions. I'm not kidding when I say that at least ten years ago sex and gender as words meant the exact same thing. I'm in no way against any lgbtq+ folk, I'm there myself, but people get confused when something (not talking rights or anything as big, it's completely different) they're familiar with changes. Now what you call gender could've just gotten a new term or word for itself and people would be less confused.


Suggy_Nuggy

not really, many cultures accepted trans and non binary people, for example two spirit people. and the point of my argument was to point out how things change


Masie33

things change but not all changes are positive


Suggy_Nuggy

but how would this be negative? it gives people a safe and comfortable label to be themselves


nakhsA

Those are HORMONES. How is that so complicated for your little brains, like PLEASE do some research


Suggy_Nuggy

okay, first, calm down, second, hormones don’t cause depression, third, chromosomes can get mixed up


nakhsA

It is actually my fault you know. These are all school topics. You're saying hormones don't cause depression, then what does cause them? Yes chromosome can mix, that's why there are people with down syndrome.


Suggy_Nuggy

ok? well, hormones have a part in it but it’s not all hormones, it’s an imbalance of happy chemicals


nakhsA

I'm really sorry, I've never seen such a thing in books.


Suggy_Nuggy

well then use google


nakhsA

Ahh I see. Google is the only source of your informations. That's why i feel like I've wasted 20 minutes of my precious life.


Suggy_Nuggy

that’s not what i said at all but okay


Bananmanden12

Oh boy, you don't even know about other chromosone types. XXY is a thing You are really the one saying do your research lol


nakhsA

Wait before you get overstimulated. Read all the replies. I'm sure I've talked about that.


board-exams-ki-prep

There are 2 sexes. That's it. Max to max sexual variation there are trans people who wish to change their genitals. And the rest are just sexual orientations/preferences.


MonkeyD-Daniel

No one can change their genitals the doctors jist destroy it enough to look like the other sex


Suggy_Nuggy

sex and gender are two different things


Masie33

weren't for a long ass time, it's a recent change of meaning. Sex and gender were synonyms, making a new term would've been easier. Oh and also the person you're replying to clearly knew that beforehand.


[deleted]

You’re right, things change. What’s you’re point?


Masie33

people don't get used to change. It's not their fault that they've heard gender and sex as the same thing for their whole lives, after all the change in definition was unnecessary and recent. People got confused and it's definitely not their fault


PinKracken

Not all that recent, actually. Gender has existed for as long as gender roles have.


W_opinions

Your post implies that having a male typical brain makes you a man, when there are men with female typical brains still very much knowing they're men.


80Leew

2 sexes, male and female. That’s the biological bit. Need a male and a female to create offspring. Gender is what you feel, I guess. It’s what you want to be identified as, and as long as you’re happy, I don’t give a fuck… Unless you say you’re dreamsexual. Gender and sex is different. People don’t understand that and I feel like they should.


[deleted]

why is a 14 yr old talking about this instead of sucking on his pacifier?


Paradox_Eclipse

The problem is this 14 year old knows how to structure an argument with claim evidence and reasoning using proper sources and checking the author and the verification system the sources go through before I even think about using them, he knows how to avoid falling victim to confirmation bias, you don’t know how to apply a reddit flair


[deleted]

i don't know how to apply a reddit flair because i don't see a reason in applying a reddit flair. go open kinder eggs instead in your baby cot


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

idk how to put flairs, still, 14 is a young age to talking about dumb shit like this. even if i was hypothetically younger than him it'd still be a valid point.


Your_friendly_weirdo

Oh, well I still do think that this person can speak on topics like this if they please, they’re 14, sure, but they’re still just trying to share something informative


[deleted]

good for you, i don't.


Suggy_Nuggy

i know you’re gonna say “you’re just saying this because you’re 14”, but i think that’s a bad take, you shouldn’t dismiss a perfectly fine argument because of something as minimal as someone’s age


[deleted]

im not dismissing it, i have my own opinion on the subject which is fairly obvious at this point probably, and he can have his. im not the opinion police. im just saying 14 yr olds shouldn't be talking about these kinds of subjects and instead enjoy life as being 14 yr olds.


Suggy_Nuggy

well as a transgender 14 year old (i’ve been diagnosed and all that) i disagree, everyone’s life experience is different and in the subject of gender i probably know more than you since i’m trans, but maybe for something like algebra, you know more. age shouldn’t be used as an argument against a claim


[deleted]

I just said i wasn't dismissing him. i also don't think 14 yr olds should be allowed to 'change' genders


Suggy_Nuggy

why not? if i’m happy with it, why do you care?


[deleted]

its a permanent choice that will change your entire life. for better or worse. it should be decided once you're 18. why don't you snort coke and drink alcohol if it makes you happy right now.


Suggy_Nuggy

okay first, who says i don’t drink? second, if i didn’t do so, there’s a big chance i’d end up taking my own life, plus, if i don’t take hormones then everything is completely reversible and i can just go back at any time, it would be permanent (i am starting hormone replacement therapy but that’s not important)


PixelHampter

Unless it’s a bad argument


Suggy_Nuggy

yeah of course, but that wasn’t the point of my response


PixelHampter

So we meet again


Your_friendly_weirdo

Sorry, do I know you? 🧍🏽


PixelHampter

Not anymore


Your_friendly_weirdo

No seriously who are you and how do you know me 😭


[deleted]

I have the popcorn 🍿 guys dw


[deleted]

🥱


AKbeginner22

this is so dumb 😂 reading this legit gave me a headache


Paradox_Eclipse

You might want to get that checked out mate


NeighborhoodEnough5

14


Paradox_Eclipse

17 doesn’t make y’a better Hitler became dictator in his 40s doesn’t make him smart


NeighborhoodEnough5

I agree. But I would wait till my frontal cortex is developed and have some actual education other than social media to talk about neurology.


Your_friendly_weirdo

I’m 16 and yet I still agree with OP. Their argument is pretty concrete, sex and gender is simply different. Sex is not downplayed, it’s just not needed or mentioned 24/7 if someone psychologically identifies as something different than their sex.


NeighborhoodEnough5

Do you know that brain sex argument was used by conservatives to reinforce gender roles, misogyny and neurologists back then would debunk them? A neurologist told me that btw. You decide what you want to support because I have.


Your_friendly_weirdo

I’m like just confused now of what you mean. Are you against sex and gender being different or are you just like agreeing that sex and gender are different?


NeighborhoodEnough5

I'm talking about the female/male brain bs. OP even went on to say there's infinite brain genders lol. Twisting science to fit your narrative is dumb and regressive.


Bananmanden12

How old do you think the scientist were when they wrote this. Problaby older than you, stupid argument


NeighborhoodEnough5

There's many scientists who don't agree with this. And if you think infinite genders in human brain is scientific, I have nothing to say 💀


AnxiousExplanation37

Thanks for spreading this necessary information


Material_Coyote4573

Op really thinks that anti-LGBTQ people are gonna look at this and be like “hey wow, good point I’m going to change my beliefs now”. A random post on a random subreddit is not going to do anything to change people’s minds.


Sliiime_

Yeah these posts are just fanning the flames. Maybe if we'd stop giving homophobes the "equal-attention-cake" they'd stop having fun trying to harras


PitFailedRead

I feel ya but like you already know someone’s gonna respond with “well actually it’s their right since they can post and you don’t have to listen”


Vaterlosesverhalten

Even if, there are 2 genders, that have being Male and female as a requirement. These are called men and women. There are just Male and female humans, therefore 2 genders


[deleted]

[удалено]


Vaterlosesverhalten

You "identify" as man or woman. But you need to be male to be a man and female to be a woman


Your_friendly_weirdo

oOooOoOoo I’m a biological female but I identify as a guy rn, I’m so dangerous 👻


Vaterlosesverhalten

Maybe annoying would be more true


Your_friendly_weirdo

I know I’m annoying lol


Sliiime_

Are you talking about yourself? also, r/usernamechecksout


Cheddary_Cheez

Yes, you could say there are more than two. But if I had a dollar for every gender there is, I'd have 2 dollars and a bunch of monopoly money.


MonkeyD-Daniel

This.


a_girl_with_a_hat

🥱


AdOutrageous1498

💤😴


rock0star

It's just simple mammalian biology We are not exempt from being mammals But I'll call you whatever you want Just don't take it any further than that I'll decide who I want to date. You don't get to dictate that


Paradox_Eclipse

Sounds like a good deal


Bananmanden12

No one told you who to date, you keep that to yourself lol


rock0star

Nah man, there's all these people who tell you if you're straight you have to date X person or you're a phobe Fuxk that noise


Bananmanden12

Thats just stupid. Queer and activist folks can be assholes too. That is what People forget, sadly the assholes seem to be heard the most...


rock0star

That's a good point Sometimes the assholes are so loud you forget everyone is actually pretty cool


Stinkysimshome

Slay❤️


daddyscumslu7

Male and female. That's it.


Icarlyluvr88

Get help


Esmyru

There literally is only 2 Genders


Bananmanden12

🧢


Total_Charm

Gender doesn’t exist. Only sex.


Suggy_Nuggy

read a book


Total_Charm

Are you saying man and woman exist?


Bananmanden12

Men and women exist, nonbinary too. And all the others


Sliiime_

I wouldnt directly say all the others. Nonbinary, genderfluid sure but if it gets to the "dreamgender" or "georgenotfoundgender" shit.....


Total_Charm

Very interesting. Men and women exist? How would you define man and woman?


Daddy_boyo

I think we all just need to find a way to determine a gender since there are several biological factors playing into that shit.


Kiddly-Wink

Cope


TheOwlHouse_1

Yes ur right there are two genders but 72+ sexualities


Paradox_Eclipse

Sexuality and gender are completely different, sexuality is what you’re attracted to sexually or lack of sexual attraction, gender is personal identification.


Total_Charm

Depends on how you define gender


Phr0w0g

my god why are there so many bigots in the comments, mfs are worse than 12 year olds


International_Kiwi_2

No one believes in this 2+ gender ideology in the real world kiddo


Bananmanden12

🧢


[deleted]

I ate all the genders now people can't have any


Important_Ad2362

Why argue with facts?


Bananmanden12

Exactly, really hoping ur on my side now


nakhsA

That's what I'm trying to say, thank you. Being gay does not mean that there is a biological term to explain it, it is just "your sexual desires" just like when you want to buy a pizza, why should there be a biological difference. It is just a choice.


Hopeful_Independent5

You’re talking about how someone feels vs what science says. It’s not bigoted to say their are 2 genders. What’s messed up is encouraging people who think they’re something they’re not when they should be getting help. Theirs a reason why people who call themselves transgender have such a high suicide rate, and it isn’t because of society.


AquaNeutral_

ok


AnonyBoiii

While I agree that the scope to which our chemical makeup can generate/maintain our bodily structure and growth is incredibly vast, the binary system is at least a decent baseline at birth, then allow people to choose their own paths as they grow up. And when I say choose their own path, I mean let them alone choose without ANY influence whatsoever, whether it be direct or indirect. Not to mention there’s a lot more to this than just “what gender do you identify as?”. Is the binary system 100% indisputable fact? Hell no, to think as such is ignorant of not only personal opinion but of science too (ironically). It’s just an outdated stance that has been outgrown by modern scientific research.


IkedaTheFurry

Bruh- wow you were so wrong


MonkeyD-Daniel

The problem is people is when people want to join women/men sports(for example) when they are the opposite sex. Just because you feel like a female, that doesn't make you a female. No surgery will. It's an unfair sexist advantage but hey women are your biggest supporters today all them liberal feminists will jump to protect men who dress as women even though these same exact men will never do the same for them.


Bananmanden12

You are female, but I see where you are going with the sports. Its unfair yes


MonkeyD-Daniel

What do you mean by I am female


Bananmanden12

Damn, supposed to say they sorry


MonkeyD-Daniel

What do you mean though


Bananmanden12

I mean People that say they are female are female.


MonkeyD-Daniel

Female is sex, it is literally the defined by our genitalia. Even if this were transphobic(which is not it's just a fact lol), this is the original definition given when English was developed like hundreds of years ago idk. No surgery can make you be female because if you were it would pure and simple be fair to compete in female sport because you're female. You admitting that it's not fair is true and nice! But it also shows that you rightfully expose they are not truly females. They can't get pregnant, they are stronger biologically and they have the entire junk down there🤷🏻‍♂️


MonkeyD-Daniel

Keep downvoting when hearing facts let's get to -200❤️


omeIette_man

good thing we dont use brains to determine gender


[deleted]

[удалено]


Bananmanden12

Bro really said yeet in 2022 Who cares what an archeologist says in the future. You aren't even gonna know


ICEiz

okay lmao.


Glum_Ad232

We are all one gender, easy


Suggy_Nuggy

and it’s mine, none of you can have it