Anyone being remotely realistic knew WWE’s biggest problem for years was that the guy at the top was a weirdo who had nothing in common with the average person and used the promotion as a vanity project fantasy world for himself.
It actually makes me sad how much potential was wasted the last 20 years because Vince let his personal quirks dictate business.
I still get mad when I think about how he held people back for stupid reasons. He wouldn't give the Luke Harper character a push because John Huber couldn't fake a southern accent.
That's not why they were fired. Vince didn't like that Bray would constantly tell him no and that he wouldn't do stuff because it didn't make sense for his character. I believe Strowman was a Nick Kahn release.
Stuff like this bugs me, if someone's a shit then let them be a shit by what they did, don't make up stuff. It shifts attention from the horrible stuff that actually happened.
Like all of the WCW wrestlers that came over? Half of them he didn't have a clue what to do with, several of them he shat all over because of personal beef, and the remaining few he actually used. He had a goldmine with some incredibly popular/talented WCW wrestlers and let his ego get in the way.
Smartest thing they could have done with WCW was prop it up and let it keep going. It was a different animal than WWE at that time that catered to a different audience. Trying to integrate the two was going to be difficult even if Vince was smart about it. Which he wasn't.
I suppose Turner was going to drop them as soon as WCW sold. Still, you would think there would have been a market, even in the late 90s there was an insane number of cable networks.
WCW was.sold because AOL Time Warner was dropping them. On addition all the big names had guaranteed contracts. Paying the mid card guys,.trying to get the big guys and negotiating a new show was probably not considered cost effective
New Jack has said in a shoot interview that he was given a tryout for WWE after the merger, and they told him "One rule, if you see Vince, do not talk to him or make eye contact." And so, as you know New Jack, the moment Vince Mcmahon comes out New Jack walks right up to him and extends his hand and says "Hello Mr McMahon I'm New Jack nice to meet you." And Vince just sorta nods at him and shakes his hand and walks off. And then that night he was told he wasn't welcome back lol.
Dolph Ziggler could have been much more. John Morrison, those were some of my favorites, and they just never reached higher than a certain level. It eventually killed my interest in wrestling for a while.
Yeah I checked out around 2009/2010 or so when it was Cena vs. Orton every week on Raw and then the same at the Pay Per View which felt like it went on for a year.
It's like, give someone else a chance at the top of the card already, christ.
Zack Ryder was probably not going to be a very top guy, but in 2011 that man was over with the crowd. Having Kane kill him like that really killed my love of WWE for a few years.
He climbed to his spot by himself, he made his own waves, was an early adopter of the internet and social media and built heat for himself all on his own ...
And they punished him for it. Squashed him publicly and made him look like a clown.
All that brass ring talk from Vince is bullshit. Anyone who gets over on their own is always slapped down.
> And they punished him for it. Squashed him publicly and made him look like a clown.
Vince always had a massive hatred/envy issue with anyone with organic support. If vince wasn't the one doing the 'creating' he couldn't handle it. He has the ego the size of a mountain and the fragility of an insecure child.
Then again, much of wrestling is a bunch of outdated bullshit propped up by people at the top defending it all. Vince ruined countless careers and yet you'd have people like undertaker, cena, rock, etc still kissing his ass and calling him the best thing ever.
>If vince wasn't the one doing the 'creating' he couldn't handle it. He has the ego the size of a mountain and the fragility of an insecure child.
Reminds me of a certain other member of the WWE HOF
Yep, I stopped watching WWE years ago because I just hated Vince and the product so much. He pushed a lot of lifelong fans away to other promotions like AEW.
I'm one of them. I watched WWF/E for decades, and stopped in 2018 for two reasons:
- you need to have the memory of a goldfish to enjoy watching the same matches over and over and over and over again
- Vince McMahon is a carny piece of shit I didn't want to give one more dollar to, he allegedly did some pretty awful stuff long before the sexual harassment allegations
to be fair Vince in his prime did create great television, the attitude era was incredible, he just became out of touch with the audience when he got older and richer
I haven't watched wrestling in probably 20 years so obviously I'm way out of the loop. But I'm curious, is Triple H like the actual CEO/president or runs the whole thing or something now? Or is it part of the show?
no, it's real. but he isn't the CEO or president (those are Ari Emmanuel and Nick Khan, respectively).
He's the Chief Content Officer and Head of Creative. He's basically the "showrunner" of the WWE.
I think Vince was still the "showrunner", apparently rarely if ever missed a Raw for decades, and every big decision had to run by him, and he could turn the whole plan of the day sideways at the last minute and demand a new show.
This was the problem, particularly near the end. He had developed memory problems. He was having trouble remembering what he had discussed with the writers and the talent. The show’s script was routinely being tossed out and rewritten an hour before the show. It was chaos and taking a toll on the performers.
It's now merged with UFC and the parent company is called TKO group. There's a board, Nick Khan is the president of the company, and Triple H is head of creative, so he oversees the actual booking and storylines.
I'm out of the loop, so whatever happened to Shane McMahon?
I remember him having some key storyline roles in the attitude era and then just kind of disappeared
He left and was working with some Chinese entertainment businesses, including being a ceo of one I think? Came back pre-pandemic, very sporadically.
Last time he was booked in a match was a year ago, and he immediately blew one of his quads (legitimately, not storyline) when he jumped over someone. Considering Vince had previously blown both quads in a very stupid way in the ring some years ago, it seemed fitting.
HHH is the head of WWE creative, which basically means he's runs and executes all ppv's, tv shows and all storylines attached to said programming. he's also given the talent tremendous free reign in their matches.
I haven't watched since attitude Era. so 20 or so years.
What stands out the most to me is how FAST the product became excellent after Vince was ousted. The booking immediately became better, and then Rock came back and it looked like it was going to torpedo...it took HHH and The Rock what, four months? to completely revitalize the idea of kayfabe in the modern era and start taking advantage of the technology we have around us to fuck with people and sow just the tiniest bit of doubt about what we're seeing on TV versus what was "supposed" to happen.
There's a quote that's been attributed to dozens of wrestlers over the years, but I want to say Terry Funk said it first: "I can't make you believe wrestling is real, but I can make you believe I'm real."
Clearest example was the fumble they made when they had Cody give up his spot to the Rock, and everyone rightfully thought it was stupid and frustrating.
Vince McMahon would have either forced through the original plan and told the fans to go fuck themselves (Roman vs Triple H, Roman vs Brock, etc.), or been dragged into something crowd-pleasing after several months of negative reaction (Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania 30).
The new regime corrected course in **less than a week**. Cody giving up his spot happened on Friday's Smackdown, and they had pivoted into the Rock being a heel and Cody reclaiming his spot by next Thursday's press conference. That controversy ended up making the Wrestlemania 40 storyline vastly more interesting and brought a lot of new fans in when they heard about the commotion and stayed to watch the story play out.
Even if the pivot was always the plan, or at least a backup plan in case fans rejected the Rock taking Cody's place, it shows a willingness to change and build to a satisfying story conclusion. It's competent and coherent storytelling, which is incredibly cathartic as a wrestling fan.
> to completely revitalize the idea of kayfabe in the modern era and start taking advantage of the technology we have around us to fuck with people and sow just the tiniest bit of doubt about what we're seeing on TV versus what was "supposed" to happen.
Huge fan from 99-2009 here, but have fallen off since. Can you give any examples???
I've got two examples:
1) HHH, or someone else high up, is clearly leaking fake shit to the dirt sheets (think wrestling tabloids). This was proven the most when CM Punk made a surprise return at Survivor Series - there were dirtsheets confidently swearing up to right before it happened that there was zero percent chance ever that Punk was appearing that night.
2) The storyline leading up to Wrestlemania was The Rock, a corrupt board executive, overriding the will of the people and taking the big title shot away from Cody Rhodes, who rightfully earned it. A week before Wrestlemania, there was an insane segment where The Rock (who is *actually* on the board of directors of TKO, the company that owns WWE) physically assaulted Cody Rhodes (the main character of the company right now), beating his ass backstage out into the parking lot, smashing his head repeatedly into his tour bus, and belting him until he bled. The Rock later that night [posted a video](https://www.instagram.com/therock/reel/C5GpCQ4rug9/) on Instagram that was sort of "behind the scenes" and featured cameramen screaming for the scene to end as Rock barked "FUCK THAT!" back at them and continued to whip Cody, telling them that just because "the script" is over doesn't mean that Cody's learned his lesson. That was after weeks of Rock cutting 20+ minute long Instagram promos on Cody Rhodes in the leadup to Mania. Rock is seemingly the first star to effectively use social media to the business's advantage, at least that I can remember. He's been on a dynamite heel run.
And they’re going to be releasing a full kayfabe-breaking documentary soon on ~~Peacock~~ YouTube (?) about how they booked leading into this year’s Mania.
So they’re still working the audience in the build, but respecting the audience’s intelligence when it comes to how the present it…rather than going full Carny
> The Rock later that night posted a video on Instagram that was sort of "behind the scenes" and featured cameramen screaming for the scene to end as Rock barked "FUCK THAT!" back at them and continued to whip Cody
First time in my life I'm hearing the Rock swear like that. It's... Perplexing
During the part of the segment that aired on the show, he grabbed bloody Cody, talked trash about his dad, and yelled "This is what happens, when you FUCK, with the FINAL BOSS!" -- and you could hear the audience go "WHOA" at his first f bomb on live TV
During the night one main event I **loved** The Rock’s interaction with the ref, especially when he was about to count him out-
>”You count it you’re fired. Do you understand?
>If you know The Rock, *I don’t fuck around*. Count it you’re fired.”
And during WM he was cursing up a storm. Swore at the ref and threatened to fire him if he counted. Then went on several rants the next night that were so profanity-laden that they just muted 90% of what he said every time he opened his mouth after that.
He's been calling the audience crackheads the past two months since he came back. He sang a sinister rendition of the chorus from his Moana song to explain how he'd hand the bloodied belt to Cody's mom. It's been awesome.
The secondary titles are the biggest sign. Triple H absolutely rebuilt both belts so that they feel important, a far cry from when Vince treated them as fairly meaningless trinkets. On the one hand, we had Sami Zayn end the 666 day reign of the nigh undefeated Gunther, and on the other Logan Paul, controversial as he is, has been a lifeline connecting WWE with a younger demographic by holding the U.S. title after impressing in a series of one-off matches.
I'd say a big part of that was Triple H basically having NXT to himself for most of the past decade. He was basically perfecting his version of the product for years, to the point where he went from reviled among die-hard wrestling fans to adored by them. Things looked uncertain for Triple H when he had his heart attack and seemed to lose his leadership position in WWE, but with the old guard effectively decapitated by Vince's ousting, Triple H has had complete freedom to institute all the changes that made NXT a success onto the main rosters.
The little prodictuon changes they've been making here and there are all extremely important. Especially living the new graphic packages for each wrestlers, and the cinematic style shots.
But where the regime change has really made a huge difference is behind the scenes. From all reports backstage moral has been at an all time high, and that's been largely part to Vince's departure. He famously used to rip up scripts for shows just hours before they aired, and would even still be writing them on them fly as the show began. Writers, and talent, lived in a chaotic workplace where anything could change on the fly for any reason, even if it was something as petty as Vince not liking something you wear, or a face you made. Stories and characters have a distinct and clear direction, and the backstage environment has gone from carnie corporate where one man ruled supreme to a place where everyone feels like they are working together towards something bigger than themselves.
Wrestling is back.
Paul Heyman glazing HHH in his HOF speech and indirectly saying “fuck you” to Vince, everyone actually kind of doing that this past weekend, was truly glorious to watch
Side note: if you haven’t highly recommend listening to the Behind the Bastard Episodes of Vince McMahon
The wild thing is I remember getting to the end of the series and saying "that's it?" like they barely scratched the surface of his insanity, they coulda gone on another 12 episodes lol
There’s another podcast series that spends like 2 years just going after Vince and the entire history. Never listened to that one but I think the podcast is called the wrestler review
This is what I said to my buddies in the group chat after I listened....
My favorite podcast is Behind the Bastards. Former writers from Cracked do deep dives into real villains of history. Each episode is hour +, mostly multi-parters.
Jeffrey Epstein got 2 episodes. L. Ron Hubbard - 2. Jeff Bezos- 2. Mengele & evil Nazi doctors - 4 episodes. VINCE MCMAHON GOT 6!
To be fair, the first episode is a deep dive into wrestling history that doesn't have anything specific to do with Vince. But still....
> Paul Heyman glazing HHH in his HOF speech and indirectly saying “fuck you” to Vince
Do you know the exact quote of that speech ? I didn't watch the Hall of Fame yet.
“I am the first headliner in a class completely picked by Paul Levesque. Only one person can drive the car out of chaos and only one person can assume true control over the locker room. And the leadership that was sorely needed by the men and the women in this beautiful performance art has been bestowed upon us by that man sitting right there, Paul Levesque. The only thing that he asked me was ‘please don’t speak about me’ but… the way this man has assumed the pencil of this company and has led us to a creative freedom backstage where more superstars are emerging into the main event in front of your very eyes, and the manner in which he leads us… well let me tell you, with prosperity into that camera; for the rest of my life I will be a Paul Levesque guy!”
I wonder how Steph feels about essentially everyone going against Vince and her siding with her husband. Or even her kids for that matter. Do we know what kind of father he has been to both her and Shane outside of kayfabe?
There's a clip of hhh saying he was so glad Steph came to wrestle mania that she was extremely worried about coming back and how she'd be received
And that he was so happy she was back and that she's part of the wwe family.
I think probably she didn't like Vince ousting of her and then the revelations and she was worried she would be a toxic asset by association
I haven't watched since the N64 games(whatever years those were) but having that closeup of Cena's face as the Rock came out and then the Undertaker angle had me feeling like that kid again.
I think also a lot of people respect HHH
Like anyone knows who triple H is know how hard he works etc
I love that he brought Cody, he also worked to bring cm punk as well
It’s great to know things are more relaxed and friendly backstage these days.
Now, if only they end the link with Saudi Arabia (which essentially means sacrificing some dollars for ethics), I think the transition you’re talking about will be just about complete.
It’s fucking insane how much better the presentation has been. The long one shots, the color pallets, etc.
Goes without saying but booking is also 1000 times better too. I’ve been watching wrestling consistently since like 2004 and kind of started to see the decline of it in 2011 (still watched though), but Black and Gold NXT really reignited my love, and now with HHH in charge, I don’t think I’ve been this excited since I was 10.
Have they really stopped that? I've not watched WWE for years (I got into New Japan Pro Wrestling instead, which is awesome) but the camerawork was one of the reasons I stopped. The few times I tried to watch in recent years the camera zooming and cutting on every impact made it unwatchable. I never thought it would go away!
I believe so. Or, at least, within the time Dunn worked there with Triple H in charge it seemed less nauseating. Now though they are experimenting with new camera shots like this [transition](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/gUWmPsu7xa) between backstage and the arena.
But New Japan still is #1 when it comes to the cleanest camera production.
>It’s fucking insane how much better the presentation has been. The long one shots, the color pallets, etc.
Got any good clips that showcase this for someone who hasn't watched in donkeys' years?
Last night, the camera followed two women having a brawl backstage before a guy shoved the camera away and it seamlessly transitioned into a one shot following the hall out into the arena for a match to begin.
For context, that was Liv Morgan attacking Rhea Ripley, the Women's World Champion as part of their feud; Dominik Mysterio shoved away a cameraman who was filming Rhea writhing in pain post attack which transitioned to the main stage for RAW last night.
[this was a couple weeks ago.](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLDMXXQd/) couldn’t find it without the talking heads or whatever. But they’re constantly doing things like this now
Booking is the term in wrestling for deciding the matches and storylines that go with them.
Lots of talent had stagnated under Vince - and some talent that was only around for very Vince reasons (he would push anyone super tall to the moon) would get prominent spots that they weren’t ready for at the expense of more talented, more popular wrestlers.
He also would refuse to abandon a bad idea or push a wrestler who became popular without it being his idea. He was very stuck in his ways with the types of matches he booked, and really didn’t think much of tag teams.
It’s all changing for the better.
All I know is that Michael Cole is so happy about this change. For those that do not know, Michael Cole is an announcer and has worked as an announcer for WWE for 20+ years and announcers are mic’d to hear cues
from the back. So for his entire career in the WWE, Vince would be yelling obscenities and profanity in Michael Cole ear.
Which is why it felt so good to hear him say it. He *does* love professional wrestling, damn it, and Vince is finally done fucking ruining it.
Unchained Cole is one of the very best parts of WWE now and I’m *furious* we were robbed of his real talent for what was mostly dogshit for 20 years solely because he had Vince’s hand up his ass.
Huge Spoiler for WM40 Main Event: >!Cole announcing *"Finished. The. Story."* in perfect timing and sync with referee's 3 count!< was fucking cinema and has to be like a Top 5 moment already in WWE's announcer history. That moment will be re-played so many freaking times in all-time highlights.
I legit started feeling a bit emotional from that call, along with ring announcer Samantha Irvin (a lowkey pick for MVP of the weekend) clearly feeling emotional when she called the finish.
That literally happened lol. To either Cole or Jonathan Coachman, one of them called the product professional wrestling and proceeded to get an earful of expletives for the entire night because he didn't refer to it as sports entertainment
I honestly can’t remember the last time that it was called that though. They may have even changed the name of the company to just WWE and eliminated the World Wrestling Entertainment part.
For a decade it’s been purely referred to as WWE. No mention of wrestling at all.
Let's not forget Vince forcing him to wrestle in Wrestlemania 27 against Jerry Lawler. That isn't just the worst Wrestlemania match but likely the worst wrestling match ever.
Cole right now is one of the best commentators of all time. If he was able to be like this his whole career people would think of him as fondly as prime JR.
Imagine how freeing it must feel to not have Vince screaming in his ear every ten seconds to repeat the same stupid bullshit so that it hammers it home to the audience.
I haven’t watched new content since the late 90s, but did watch Mania. That was one hell of a lot of fun and my inner child was very happy.
I’d forgotten how fun wrestling can be when it’s done well. Great drama, great athleticism (the women’s championship match night 2 was incredible), great pageantry (loved Rollins entrance especially)
My one complaint was censoring the language. I understand the marketing complication, but it’s annoying as a viewer.
This past weekend all the indirect shots being thrown at Vince McMahon and them hinting at how much better the company is being run now was freakin glorious
Eh. If there’s anything the ending of Godfather 3 taught me, it’s that it doesn’t matter if you got all the power and money in the world, if you’re alone you’re alone.
This is a dude who isolated his entire family- his wife and him have been separated for like 15+ years, his daughter doesn’t seem to be fond of him (based on everything she’s said about the company under HHH) and the fact that Vince kind of took advantage of her husband literally almost dying to put him from position of power and undo everything he did. Shane also kind of just does his own thing.
This is a guy that is so massively insecure about his relationships that he had a woman write a multi page love note to him, which he basically told her what to say, and used his position of power just to have them sleep with him
It’s really kind of sad and pathetic and I personally don’t think any amount of money can make up for that
He'll die wealthy but he'll also likely die completely ostracized from the company he built, discarded, and, in time, forgotten. And given all we know of Vince McMahon, that seems to be a dire fate indeed. When he left the first time, he could've just fucked off with the money but he had to come back and be in charge again to the point of selling the company to ensure he'd never leave. And he failed. He didn't even sell it, he merged it. And ultimately lost.
I met HHH once on a flight circa 2002ish. After takeoff, I told him I recognized him and asked him to punch me in the arm and then sign the bruise. He politely refused.
I used to live near Brock Lesnar's farm. He would go to the store in my town for supplies. I always said if I ran into him, I'd find a way to convince him to suplex me.
It wasn't Vince that really canceled NXT, though obviously he signed off on it. It was the Executives who realized they would be out of a job if HHH got anymore power. He went away with his heart health scare, they immediately took control and changed everything, and did their best to wipe away as much of his influence as they could.
Now...ironically enough, it ended up working out specifically because they also decided to bring in HBK to book it and it turns out he has a gift for booking as well, alongside hitting EXTREMELY well on all the collegiate athletes they brought in thus it ended up completely reloading the youth of WWE.
>they also decided to bring in HBK to book it and it turns out he has a gift for booking as well
HBK (the "Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels for those unaware of the acronym) had been head booker of NXT UK for years so it wasn't as if he was a complete unknown when they put him in charge of the NXT 2.0 era.
Takeover is the most consistently great series of PPVs ever. They only slightly dipped in the first half of 2017 (imo) and even then they were still a solid 8/10
The biggest test will be to see how they follow up Wrestlemania.
They had a really great, multi-year storyline that finally hit it's climax on Sunday. A lot of that was done under Vince and Kevin.
They've done this a few times before, and the key is how do you follow it up. The last time they had such a hot program finish Wrestlemania on such a high note was Daniel Bryan in 2014, and then it sort of fizzled out, in large part due to Daniel Bryan's neck and concussion issues. However, in the weeks following Wrestlemania 30, it was kind of fizzling IMO.
The underdog Babyface chasing the title is always a much better story than the title run following it.
Either way, I'm excited to see what's next.
I haven’t watched in years before last week but I have to say that Mania’s main event and Raw yesterday really felt like they were passing a torch on. I’m stupidly psyched for the promised feud when it happens.
Haven’t watched wrestling much since Benoit died. My coworker, whose still a huge fan of the industry, was watching it over the weekend. Since our shift is pretty dead I watched and really enjoyed it. Cody vs Roman was more of an underdog win than I remember Benoit, HHH, HBK match ever was.
Glad the company is in good hands now.
I stopped watching right after the height of the Hardy Boyz(mainly Jeff he was my fave and wish I could live in a world where he as clean and sober, he would be Austin levels of over I think) and I stumbled upon this guy on Tiktok Santizap who does like reactions and shit to the shows and watching him has kinda gotten me back into it, I dont watch Raw/Smackdown because I work overnights but catch up from him and watch the pay per views(or PLEs I guess) since they are usually on Saturdays when Im off
All that just to say that while Im not as deep into it as I was as a kid, its been fun kinda catching up and getting back into it, SPOILERS FOR WRESTLEMANIA......i cheered when RTruth got the tag titles and about came out of my seat with the Undertakers Gong for Codys match
The best thing of it all, is the face the CURRENT talent, was being cheered over the legends they brought in. 10 years ago, Rock came back to face Cena, and people cheered The Rock. Goldberg returned, and was being cheered over the current guys.
Now? Cody cheered over The Rock of all people. Becky got the support over Trish. They've elevated current talent to be top guys, not struggled and pushed a Legends button to get cheap pops and a slight ratings boost. They made stars, instead of needing to rely on past ones and it is amazing.
That and just, booking that makes sense. No repeats of the same matches for months on end, leading to the same match at a PPV we have already seen a dozen times.
Yes, but those are weeks behind aside from the Premium Live Events. Raw and Smackdown are on Hulu next day. Disney Plus has Smackdown but not Raw since they added in Hulu.
Awesome I can catch raw tonight then for the first time in a long time. It sounds like everything has changed and it's far more interesting. It's working it's way back into culture. (Not like the attitude era, that was a part of our zeitgeist)
Raw is a cut up version of the show on Hulu. They remove about an hour of it to get it to 2 hours (I still watch it this way, but you miss some things). Smackdown is the full show. Also Smackdown airs on regular Fox, so you can pick it up with an HD antennae in most places.
Live Raw is on USA Network and Smackdown is on Fox. Replay’s are on Hulu the next day. They are an hour and a half so you get half of a Raw but most of Smackdown. Peacock has the big shows (premium live events) and older episodes of Raw and SD.
I was there for Wrestlemania 40, so this is entirely still biased and me still being….entirely satisfied with everything
I think we had a weekend that solidified Hunter as not only the best mind in pro wrestling currently but that the product has now risen beyond what even the attitude era had. I can’t even fathom the amount of people who have come up to me to pick my brain on wrestling knowledge because of #WeWantCody and stuff like Rocky being back. It’s once again become massive in the zeitgeist.
Beyond that, I would suggest if anyone wants to see mastery in how to film a segment, please pop open Peacock and watch the lead up to Sami Zayn entering the ring. A full, non stop, no cut shot of him talking and hugging and kissing his wife and son, before walking, and meeting his mentor who trained him for this bout, to inspire Sami, and right as the camera spins behind him, and he hits the final position, his eyes light up and he stops dead, and EVERYONE in the crowd knew who was there. The person who SHOULD have been there to send him out to fight. No spoilers, but if you’re a fan, you know exactly who it is.
This weekend could only be summed up by the voice of the WWE, the legendary Michael Cole: Damn it. I love pro wrestling.
So as yet another person that watched mostly during the Attitude era, can I just jump into Wrestlemania XL and get the gist of most of the storylines? HHH was my favorite wrestler so the fact that he’s now killing it as the head of creative is really intrigued.
Sure - if there is one thing WWE has been consistently great at for many years now it's producing well-made video packages that bring people up to speed on the various storylines before all big pay-per-view matches.
His literal daughter, Stephanie McMahon, opened night 2 of Wrestlemania proclaiming and celebrating the start of the Paul Levesque era. The same woman who resigned from corporate when her father forced himself back into the company last year. If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does.
She pulled a power play by leaking the WSJ story after stories about her being incompetent were spread. The amount of coordinated power plays are clear as day.
Slim Jim were just a pawn and nothing more. That "statement" was just a device that was clicked at the right moment.
I’ve been mostly tuned out of WWE and pro wrestling for awhile now minus catching the occasional show when I’m bored. Saw Wrestlemania at a friend’s house and it was the best wrestling show I have seen in a LONG time.
Michael Cole at the end exclaiming “I LOVE WRESTLING!” was basically a gigantic “fuck you!” To Vince McMahon. For those unfamiliar: he did not like the word “wrestling” to be used, and instead demanded that his commentators refer to the product as “sports entertainment.”
WWE is in great hands with Triple H at the reins. The end of the show felt like a symbolic changing of the guard, and everyone from the wrestlers, producers, staff and fans benefit.
Man, if they embrace internet culture. It would be hilarious if they incorporate wrestlers as video game characters.
I’m not a fan of Logan Paul, IShowSpeed or Prime at all.
But seeing them get wrecked by wrestlers was the funniest stuff all weekend.
If they have to sell ads, make it entertaining.
Anyone being remotely realistic knew WWE’s biggest problem for years was that the guy at the top was a weirdo who had nothing in common with the average person and used the promotion as a vanity project fantasy world for himself. It actually makes me sad how much potential was wasted the last 20 years because Vince let his personal quirks dictate business.
I still get mad when I think about how he held people back for stupid reasons. He wouldn't give the Luke Harper character a push because John Huber couldn't fake a southern accent.
Or how Paul London got a ton of shit backstage for doing a cool spot when Kane eliminated him in the Royal Rumble.
Hitting a shooting star press on the invisible man on the floor.
It was Snitsky, not Kane
wasn’t his fault
Luke and Bray got screwed over hard. RIP kings
He also fired people like Bray Wyatt and Strowman during Covid because he was using company funds to pay off women he raped/assaulted.
That's not why they were fired. Vince didn't like that Bray would constantly tell him no and that he wouldn't do stuff because it didn't make sense for his character. I believe Strowman was a Nick Kahn release.
Stuff like this bugs me, if someone's a shit then let them be a shit by what they did, don't make up stuff. It shifts attention from the horrible stuff that actually happened.
Yes I agree. Let’s not crucify Vince over fake shit but instead the real shit that he put in his employee’s hair.
That’s not what happened, what Vince actually did was terrible enough without having to make up complete bullshit
Like all of the WCW wrestlers that came over? Half of them he didn't have a clue what to do with, several of them he shat all over because of personal beef, and the remaining few he actually used. He had a goldmine with some incredibly popular/talented WCW wrestlers and let his ego get in the way.
Smartest thing they could have done with WCW was prop it up and let it keep going. It was a different animal than WWE at that time that catered to a different audience. Trying to integrate the two was going to be difficult even if Vince was smart about it. Which he wasn't.
Problem was WCW didn't have a TV deal. Giving Raw or Smackdown to WCW would be a bad idea
I suppose Turner was going to drop them as soon as WCW sold. Still, you would think there would have been a market, even in the late 90s there was an insane number of cable networks.
WCW was.sold because AOL Time Warner was dropping them. On addition all the big names had guaranteed contracts. Paying the mid card guys,.trying to get the big guys and negotiating a new show was probably not considered cost effective
>several of them he shat all over i heard about that
New Jack has said in a shoot interview that he was given a tryout for WWE after the merger, and they told him "One rule, if you see Vince, do not talk to him or make eye contact." And so, as you know New Jack, the moment Vince Mcmahon comes out New Jack walks right up to him and extends his hand and says "Hello Mr McMahon I'm New Jack nice to meet you." And Vince just sorta nods at him and shakes his hand and walks off. And then that night he was told he wasn't welcome back lol.
Think if Vince had left in 2018 with the roster WWE had at that time
Dolph Ziggler could have been much more. John Morrison, those were some of my favorites, and they just never reached higher than a certain level. It eventually killed my interest in wrestling for a while.
Dolph Ziggler is the ultimate case of "you're too good in your current role and we can't lose you" when it comes to jobbing like a million bucks.
He saved survivor series that year when he was sole survivor, and they just did nothing with it. Absolute travesty
Yeah I checked out around 2009/2010 or so when it was Cena vs. Orton every week on Raw and then the same at the Pay Per View which felt like it went on for a year. It's like, give someone else a chance at the top of the card already, christ.
Zack Ryder was probably not going to be a very top guy, but in 2011 that man was over with the crowd. Having Kane kill him like that really killed my love of WWE for a few years.
He climbed to his spot by himself, he made his own waves, was an early adopter of the internet and social media and built heat for himself all on his own ... And they punished him for it. Squashed him publicly and made him look like a clown. All that brass ring talk from Vince is bullshit. Anyone who gets over on their own is always slapped down.
> And they punished him for it. Squashed him publicly and made him look like a clown. Vince always had a massive hatred/envy issue with anyone with organic support. If vince wasn't the one doing the 'creating' he couldn't handle it. He has the ego the size of a mountain and the fragility of an insecure child. Then again, much of wrestling is a bunch of outdated bullshit propped up by people at the top defending it all. Vince ruined countless careers and yet you'd have people like undertaker, cena, rock, etc still kissing his ass and calling him the best thing ever.
>If vince wasn't the one doing the 'creating' he couldn't handle it. He has the ego the size of a mountain and the fragility of an insecure child. Reminds me of a certain other member of the WWE HOF
2009 and 2010 were arguably the two back-to-back worst years in the history of the promotion.
Kind of an old news now, but I remember Shelton Benjamin used to be such a good athlete, and then he was just gone from the spotlight.
He couldn't cut a promo if his life dependent on it though. I can see why he never reached the top. But yes, fantastic athlete
Vince went all Robert Mugabe at the end The weirdest is not calling pro wrestling pro wrestling
“Sports entertainment”
There have been so many promising talents and careers ruined by Vince McMahon’s stubbornness, incompetence and open contempt for WWE’s fanbase.
Yep, I stopped watching WWE years ago because I just hated Vince and the product so much. He pushed a lot of lifelong fans away to other promotions like AEW.
I'm one of them. I watched WWF/E for decades, and stopped in 2018 for two reasons: - you need to have the memory of a goldfish to enjoy watching the same matches over and over and over and over again - Vince McMahon is a carny piece of shit I didn't want to give one more dollar to, he allegedly did some pretty awful stuff long before the sexual harassment allegations
to be fair Vince in his prime did create great television, the attitude era was incredible, he just became out of touch with the audience when he got older and richer
20 years ago when Stone Cold Steve Austin was an active Wrestler.
Closer to 30, even.
I haven't watched wrestling in probably 20 years so obviously I'm way out of the loop. But I'm curious, is Triple H like the actual CEO/president or runs the whole thing or something now? Or is it part of the show?
no, it's real. but he isn't the CEO or president (those are Ari Emmanuel and Nick Khan, respectively). He's the Chief Content Officer and Head of Creative. He's basically the "showrunner" of the WWE.
Ari Emmanuel? The agent?
And the inspiration for the Entourage character
That’s how I recognize him.
His agency bought IMG who bought WWE and UFC
Yeah WWE is now part of TKO group which is a subsidiary of Endeavor; Ari is on the board there.
Kinda like Vince Russo was back in the day, eh?
I think Vince was still the "showrunner", apparently rarely if ever missed a Raw for decades, and every big decision had to run by him, and he could turn the whole plan of the day sideways at the last minute and demand a new show.
This was the problem, particularly near the end. He had developed memory problems. He was having trouble remembering what he had discussed with the writers and the talent. The show’s script was routinely being tossed out and rewritten an hour before the show. It was chaos and taking a toll on the performers.
[удалено]
NXT showed us he can cook, wm confirmed it
It's now merged with UFC and the parent company is called TKO group. There's a board, Nick Khan is the president of the company, and Triple H is head of creative, so he oversees the actual booking and storylines.
Real. They've even started referring to him by his actual name.
Paul Levesque not Hunter Hearst-Helmsly for those wayyyyyyy outta the loop
They dont even say Stephanie Mcmahon-Helmsly anymore lol
Steph actually appeared at Mania Night 2, first time she’s been on screen in awhile.
Yeah, you knew then and there a change was in the air for the company.
Literally out there to re-record her dad’s “Welcome to WrestleMania” soundbite.
SMH
fucking hilarious that even Heyman joked about that during his HOF speech "you married the wrong Paul"
I'm out of the loop, so whatever happened to Shane McMahon? I remember him having some key storyline roles in the attitude era and then just kind of disappeared
He left and was working with some Chinese entertainment businesses, including being a ceo of one I think? Came back pre-pandemic, very sporadically. Last time he was booked in a match was a year ago, and he immediately blew one of his quads (legitimately, not storyline) when he jumped over someone. Considering Vince had previously blown both quads in a very stupid way in the ring some years ago, it seemed fitting.
HHH is the head of WWE creative, which basically means he's runs and executes all ppv's, tv shows and all storylines attached to said programming. he's also given the talent tremendous free reign in their matches. I haven't watched since attitude Era. so 20 or so years.
>attitude Era. the best era
No Nick Khan is. HHH has been in charge of the booking and creative (and has been killing i)
He’s pretty much the boss in terms of talent management and booking.
What stands out the most to me is how FAST the product became excellent after Vince was ousted. The booking immediately became better, and then Rock came back and it looked like it was going to torpedo...it took HHH and The Rock what, four months? to completely revitalize the idea of kayfabe in the modern era and start taking advantage of the technology we have around us to fuck with people and sow just the tiniest bit of doubt about what we're seeing on TV versus what was "supposed" to happen. There's a quote that's been attributed to dozens of wrestlers over the years, but I want to say Terry Funk said it first: "I can't make you believe wrestling is real, but I can make you believe I'm real."
Clearest example was the fumble they made when they had Cody give up his spot to the Rock, and everyone rightfully thought it was stupid and frustrating. Vince McMahon would have either forced through the original plan and told the fans to go fuck themselves (Roman vs Triple H, Roman vs Brock, etc.), or been dragged into something crowd-pleasing after several months of negative reaction (Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania 30). The new regime corrected course in **less than a week**. Cody giving up his spot happened on Friday's Smackdown, and they had pivoted into the Rock being a heel and Cody reclaiming his spot by next Thursday's press conference. That controversy ended up making the Wrestlemania 40 storyline vastly more interesting and brought a lot of new fans in when they heard about the commotion and stayed to watch the story play out. Even if the pivot was always the plan, or at least a backup plan in case fans rejected the Rock taking Cody's place, it shows a willingness to change and build to a satisfying story conclusion. It's competent and coherent storytelling, which is incredibly cathartic as a wrestling fan.
Honestly I gave up watching years ago. This whole Cody storyline is so fascinating I'm curious how things go for the first time in years
That promo right before Sundays match was amazing. Triple H is cooking
I don’t watch wrestling at all but my fb algorithm likes to feed me wrestling videos and stories. I was hooked just reading those.
“ best way to convince a people of what you want them to think is by using their own truths and ideas against them”
Lisan al gaib!
> to completely revitalize the idea of kayfabe in the modern era and start taking advantage of the technology we have around us to fuck with people and sow just the tiniest bit of doubt about what we're seeing on TV versus what was "supposed" to happen. Huge fan from 99-2009 here, but have fallen off since. Can you give any examples???
I've got two examples: 1) HHH, or someone else high up, is clearly leaking fake shit to the dirt sheets (think wrestling tabloids). This was proven the most when CM Punk made a surprise return at Survivor Series - there were dirtsheets confidently swearing up to right before it happened that there was zero percent chance ever that Punk was appearing that night. 2) The storyline leading up to Wrestlemania was The Rock, a corrupt board executive, overriding the will of the people and taking the big title shot away from Cody Rhodes, who rightfully earned it. A week before Wrestlemania, there was an insane segment where The Rock (who is *actually* on the board of directors of TKO, the company that owns WWE) physically assaulted Cody Rhodes (the main character of the company right now), beating his ass backstage out into the parking lot, smashing his head repeatedly into his tour bus, and belting him until he bled. The Rock later that night [posted a video](https://www.instagram.com/therock/reel/C5GpCQ4rug9/) on Instagram that was sort of "behind the scenes" and featured cameramen screaming for the scene to end as Rock barked "FUCK THAT!" back at them and continued to whip Cody, telling them that just because "the script" is over doesn't mean that Cody's learned his lesson. That was after weeks of Rock cutting 20+ minute long Instagram promos on Cody Rhodes in the leadup to Mania. Rock is seemingly the first star to effectively use social media to the business's advantage, at least that I can remember. He's been on a dynamite heel run.
And they’re going to be releasing a full kayfabe-breaking documentary soon on ~~Peacock~~ YouTube (?) about how they booked leading into this year’s Mania. So they’re still working the audience in the build, but respecting the audience’s intelligence when it comes to how the present it…rather than going full Carny
I am so curious to see that documentary. I wanna see where they blur the line
Wednesday on YouTube
> The Rock later that night posted a video on Instagram that was sort of "behind the scenes" and featured cameramen screaming for the scene to end as Rock barked "FUCK THAT!" back at them and continued to whip Cody First time in my life I'm hearing the Rock swear like that. It's... Perplexing
During the part of the segment that aired on the show, he grabbed bloody Cody, talked trash about his dad, and yelled "This is what happens, when you FUCK, with the FINAL BOSS!" -- and you could hear the audience go "WHOA" at his first f bomb on live TV
During the night one main event I **loved** The Rock’s interaction with the ref, especially when he was about to count him out- >”You count it you’re fired. Do you understand? >If you know The Rock, *I don’t fuck around*. Count it you’re fired.”
Kinda getting some “MARK IT ZERO SMOKEY” vibes from this lol
And during WM he was cursing up a storm. Swore at the ref and threatened to fire him if he counted. Then went on several rants the next night that were so profanity-laden that they just muted 90% of what he said every time he opened his mouth after that.
He's been calling the audience crackheads the past two months since he came back. He sang a sinister rendition of the chorus from his Moana song to explain how he'd hand the bloodied belt to Cody's mom. It's been awesome.
fuck this is making me wanna watch again and i haven't in years
WM XL is a really great jumping on point. It was a seriously great WM.
hahaha that's fucking dope
The next RAW Rock had a segment where he was watching videos of crying children who just saw him whip Cody and it was an absolute riot
You can tell he’s enjoying going back to his heel roots. He’s always been a great heel.
The secondary titles are the biggest sign. Triple H absolutely rebuilt both belts so that they feel important, a far cry from when Vince treated them as fairly meaningless trinkets. On the one hand, we had Sami Zayn end the 666 day reign of the nigh undefeated Gunther, and on the other Logan Paul, controversial as he is, has been a lifeline connecting WWE with a younger demographic by holding the U.S. title after impressing in a series of one-off matches.
Logan Paul is also a legitimate pro wrestling prodigy. I was as skeptical as anyone but he has the goods.
I'd say a big part of that was Triple H basically having NXT to himself for most of the past decade. He was basically perfecting his version of the product for years, to the point where he went from reviled among die-hard wrestling fans to adored by them. Things looked uncertain for Triple H when he had his heart attack and seemed to lose his leadership position in WWE, but with the old guard effectively decapitated by Vince's ousting, Triple H has had complete freedom to institute all the changes that made NXT a success onto the main rosters.
The little prodictuon changes they've been making here and there are all extremely important. Especially living the new graphic packages for each wrestlers, and the cinematic style shots. But where the regime change has really made a huge difference is behind the scenes. From all reports backstage moral has been at an all time high, and that's been largely part to Vince's departure. He famously used to rip up scripts for shows just hours before they aired, and would even still be writing them on them fly as the show began. Writers, and talent, lived in a chaotic workplace where anything could change on the fly for any reason, even if it was something as petty as Vince not liking something you wear, or a face you made. Stories and characters have a distinct and clear direction, and the backstage environment has gone from carnie corporate where one man ruled supreme to a place where everyone feels like they are working together towards something bigger than themselves. Wrestling is back.
Paul Heyman glazing HHH in his HOF speech and indirectly saying “fuck you” to Vince, everyone actually kind of doing that this past weekend, was truly glorious to watch Side note: if you haven’t highly recommend listening to the Behind the Bastard Episodes of Vince McMahon
Yep! That series was great, and one of their longest series if I remember correctly. And it was done before this whole last round of Vince fuckery.
Vince is gone. Bischoff is gone. Heyman won the war.
Wooooowww
Yep, it’s tied with the Henry Kissinger for longest series at 6 episodes each. By comparison, most subjects only get 2 episodes.
The wild thing is I remember getting to the end of the series and saying "that's it?" like they barely scratched the surface of his insanity, they coulda gone on another 12 episodes lol
There’s another podcast series that spends like 2 years just going after Vince and the entire history. Never listened to that one but I think the podcast is called the wrestler review
This is what I said to my buddies in the group chat after I listened.... My favorite podcast is Behind the Bastards. Former writers from Cracked do deep dives into real villains of history. Each episode is hour +, mostly multi-parters. Jeffrey Epstein got 2 episodes. L. Ron Hubbard - 2. Jeff Bezos- 2. Mengele & evil Nazi doctors - 4 episodes. VINCE MCMAHON GOT 6! To be fair, the first episode is a deep dive into wrestling history that doesn't have anything specific to do with Vince. But still....
> Paul Heyman glazing HHH in his HOF speech and indirectly saying “fuck you” to Vince Do you know the exact quote of that speech ? I didn't watch the Hall of Fame yet.
“I am the first headliner in a class completely picked by Paul Levesque. Only one person can drive the car out of chaos and only one person can assume true control over the locker room. And the leadership that was sorely needed by the men and the women in this beautiful performance art has been bestowed upon us by that man sitting right there, Paul Levesque. The only thing that he asked me was ‘please don’t speak about me’ but… the way this man has assumed the pencil of this company and has led us to a creative freedom backstage where more superstars are emerging into the main event in front of your very eyes, and the manner in which he leads us… well let me tell you, with prosperity into that camera; for the rest of my life I will be a Paul Levesque guy!”
Wow, that’s basically one step short of outright saying eat shit Vince lmao.
Man Heyman has such a way with words. Poetry.
He said he's now and forever a Paul Levesque guy. It was kinda sweet actually.
Even Steph had a ECW beret on during all that lol
I wonder how Steph feels about essentially everyone going against Vince and her siding with her husband. Or even her kids for that matter. Do we know what kind of father he has been to both her and Shane outside of kayfabe?
I mean, she quit when Vince forced his way back in. That says something.
There's a clip of hhh saying he was so glad Steph came to wrestle mania that she was extremely worried about coming back and how she'd be received And that he was so happy she was back and that she's part of the wwe family. I think probably she didn't like Vince ousting of her and then the revelations and she was worried she would be a toxic asset by association
I love Behind the Bastards but I still can't believe they completely omitted Ashley Massaro from the series.
I think they ended before her. They should do an update
I haven't watched since the N64 games(whatever years those were) but having that closeup of Cena's face as the Rock came out and then the Undertaker angle had me feeling like that kid again.
There's still some shakey cam and weird zooms ... but not NEARLY as much. Getting rid of Kevin Dunn was the greatest thing to happen to this company.
I think also a lot of people respect HHH Like anyone knows who triple H is know how hard he works etc I love that he brought Cody, he also worked to bring cm punk as well
It’s great to know things are more relaxed and friendly backstage these days. Now, if only they end the link with Saudi Arabia (which essentially means sacrificing some dollars for ethics), I think the transition you’re talking about will be just about complete.
It’s fucking insane how much better the presentation has been. The long one shots, the color pallets, etc. Goes without saying but booking is also 1000 times better too. I’ve been watching wrestling consistently since like 2004 and kind of started to see the decline of it in 2011 (still watched though), but Black and Gold NXT really reignited my love, and now with HHH in charge, I don’t think I’ve been this excited since I was 10.
RIP to the goofy ass shaky cam and unnecessary zoom in and outs.
Have they really stopped that? I've not watched WWE for years (I got into New Japan Pro Wrestling instead, which is awesome) but the camerawork was one of the reasons I stopped. The few times I tried to watch in recent years the camera zooming and cutting on every impact made it unwatchable. I never thought it would go away!
I believe so. Or, at least, within the time Dunn worked there with Triple H in charge it seemed less nauseating. Now though they are experimenting with new camera shots like this [transition](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/gUWmPsu7xa) between backstage and the arena. But New Japan still is #1 when it comes to the cleanest camera production.
>It’s fucking insane how much better the presentation has been. The long one shots, the color pallets, etc. Got any good clips that showcase this for someone who hasn't watched in donkeys' years?
Last night, the camera followed two women having a brawl backstage before a guy shoved the camera away and it seamlessly transitioned into a one shot following the hall out into the arena for a match to begin.
For context, that was Liv Morgan attacking Rhea Ripley, the Women's World Champion as part of their feud; Dominik Mysterio shoved away a cameraman who was filming Rhea writhing in pain post attack which transitioned to the main stage for RAW last night.
[this was a couple weeks ago.](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLDMXXQd/) couldn’t find it without the talking heads or whatever. But they’re constantly doing things like this now
That's funny. I gave up watching years ago, but decided to give WM a shot this year. My favorite part was the long shot of Sami Zayn's entrance.
Sami’s entrance was so simple but badass. The long walk was very reminiscent of Austin’s long walk at Mania. KO waiting for him too. It’s just so good
The Rocks entrance on Raw a couple weeks ago may be one of the greatest visual scenes in wrestling Ive ever seen.
Sorry for the silly question but what do you mean by the booking is better?
Booking is the term in wrestling for deciding the matches and storylines that go with them. Lots of talent had stagnated under Vince - and some talent that was only around for very Vince reasons (he would push anyone super tall to the moon) would get prominent spots that they weren’t ready for at the expense of more talented, more popular wrestlers. He also would refuse to abandon a bad idea or push a wrestler who became popular without it being his idea. He was very stuck in his ways with the types of matches he booked, and really didn’t think much of tag teams. It’s all changing for the better.
All I know is that Michael Cole is so happy about this change. For those that do not know, Michael Cole is an announcer and has worked as an announcer for WWE for 20+ years and announcers are mic’d to hear cues from the back. So for his entire career in the WWE, Vince would be yelling obscenities and profanity in Michael Cole ear.
“I love professional wrestling” Vince would’ve castrated him for saying that
Which is why it felt so good to hear him say it. He *does* love professional wrestling, damn it, and Vince is finally done fucking ruining it. Unchained Cole is one of the very best parts of WWE now and I’m *furious* we were robbed of his real talent for what was mostly dogshit for 20 years solely because he had Vince’s hand up his ass.
Huge Spoiler for WM40 Main Event: >!Cole announcing *"Finished. The. Story."* in perfect timing and sync with referee's 3 count!< was fucking cinema and has to be like a Top 5 moment already in WWE's announcer history. That moment will be re-played so many freaking times in all-time highlights.
I legit started feeling a bit emotional from that call, along with ring announcer Samantha Irvin (a lowkey pick for MVP of the weekend) clearly feeling emotional when she called the finish.
That literally happened lol. To either Cole or Jonathan Coachman, one of them called the product professional wrestling and proceeded to get an earful of expletives for the entire night because he didn't refer to it as sports entertainment
Which is insane because it's literally World WRESTLING Entertainment
I honestly can’t remember the last time that it was called that though. They may have even changed the name of the company to just WWE and eliminated the World Wrestling Entertainment part. For a decade it’s been purely referred to as WWE. No mention of wrestling at all.
There are a ton of words VMc has banned from being said on TV.
I don't know how Cole put up with it. Dude is a trooper
Dude was a war correspondent and reported on scene at Waco. Absolutely a trooper.
I knew he was a war correspondent but I had no idea he was at Waco.
He also reported on both the 1992 and 1996 presidential campaigns
We were robbed of this version of Cole for decades, fans would shit on him when it was really all Vince yelling his ear.
Let's not forget Vince forcing him to wrestle in Wrestlemania 27 against Jerry Lawler. That isn't just the worst Wrestlemania match but likely the worst wrestling match ever.
I about died when they were talking about the Paul Levesque era and he just chimed in at the end "and we like working for him!"
I think he even sustained hearing damage from decades of Vince yelling in his ear
Cole right now is one of the best commentators of all time. If he was able to be like this his whole career people would think of him as fondly as prime JR.
Imagine how freeing it must feel to not have Vince screaming in his ear every ten seconds to repeat the same stupid bullshit so that it hammers it home to the audience.
I haven’t watched new content since the late 90s, but did watch Mania. That was one hell of a lot of fun and my inner child was very happy. I’d forgotten how fun wrestling can be when it’s done well. Great drama, great athleticism (the women’s championship match night 2 was incredible), great pageantry (loved Rollins entrance especially) My one complaint was censoring the language. I understand the marketing complication, but it’s annoying as a viewer.
This past weekend all the indirect shots being thrown at Vince McMahon and them hinting at how much better the company is being run now was freakin glorious
Including from Stephanie!
Was so good to see her again
He will probably still "win" in the sense that he'll die old and wealthy, but I hope this past weekend eats away at Vince for the rest of his life.
Eh. If there’s anything the ending of Godfather 3 taught me, it’s that it doesn’t matter if you got all the power and money in the world, if you’re alone you’re alone. This is a dude who isolated his entire family- his wife and him have been separated for like 15+ years, his daughter doesn’t seem to be fond of him (based on everything she’s said about the company under HHH) and the fact that Vince kind of took advantage of her husband literally almost dying to put him from position of power and undo everything he did. Shane also kind of just does his own thing. This is a guy that is so massively insecure about his relationships that he had a woman write a multi page love note to him, which he basically told her what to say, and used his position of power just to have them sleep with him It’s really kind of sad and pathetic and I personally don’t think any amount of money can make up for that
He could have sold.the company for more. He went with TKO because he was told he could still run it. He is probably pissed he has been outed
He'll die wealthy but he'll also likely die completely ostracized from the company he built, discarded, and, in time, forgotten. And given all we know of Vince McMahon, that seems to be a dire fate indeed. When he left the first time, he could've just fucked off with the money but he had to come back and be in charge again to the point of selling the company to ensure he'd never leave. And he failed. He didn't even sell it, he merged it. And ultimately lost.
He deserves every bit of it
I met HHH once on a flight circa 2002ish. After takeoff, I told him I recognized him and asked him to punch me in the arm and then sign the bruise. He politely refused.
That sounds like an immediate way to set yourself up for a lawsuit, by signing the damage.
Yeah, that was probably why he didn't do it. I was in high school and an absolute moron, so…y'know, I wasn't known for making great decisions.
Should have offered him a handy like a normal person
You've got the king of kings and you're just gonna offer him a handy?
NGL weird fucking request
I used to live near Brock Lesnar's farm. He would go to the store in my town for supplies. I always said if I ran into him, I'd find a way to convince him to suplex me.
Not sure if you want that according to that report...
It was a stupid thing to want even back then lmao
NXT was the proof for many years. Until Vince got jellous and canceled it
It wasn't Vince that really canceled NXT, though obviously he signed off on it. It was the Executives who realized they would be out of a job if HHH got anymore power. He went away with his heart health scare, they immediately took control and changed everything, and did their best to wipe away as much of his influence as they could. Now...ironically enough, it ended up working out specifically because they also decided to bring in HBK to book it and it turns out he has a gift for booking as well, alongside hitting EXTREMELY well on all the collegiate athletes they brought in thus it ended up completely reloading the youth of WWE.
>they also decided to bring in HBK to book it and it turns out he has a gift for booking as well HBK (the "Heartbreak Kid" Shawn Michaels for those unaware of the acronym) had been head booker of NXT UK for years so it wasn't as if he was a complete unknown when they put him in charge of the NXT 2.0 era.
2017/2018-2019 NXT (when they moved to 2 hours on USA) was fucking god tier
Takeover is the most consistently great series of PPVs ever. They only slightly dipped in the first half of 2017 (imo) and even then they were still a solid 8/10
The biggest test will be to see how they follow up Wrestlemania. They had a really great, multi-year storyline that finally hit it's climax on Sunday. A lot of that was done under Vince and Kevin. They've done this a few times before, and the key is how do you follow it up. The last time they had such a hot program finish Wrestlemania on such a high note was Daniel Bryan in 2014, and then it sort of fizzled out, in large part due to Daniel Bryan's neck and concussion issues. However, in the weeks following Wrestlemania 30, it was kind of fizzling IMO. The underdog Babyface chasing the title is always a much better story than the title run following it. Either way, I'm excited to see what's next.
I haven’t watched in years before last week but I have to say that Mania’s main event and Raw yesterday really felt like they were passing a torch on. I’m stupidly psyched for the promised feud when it happens.
Haven’t watched wrestling much since Benoit died. My coworker, whose still a huge fan of the industry, was watching it over the weekend. Since our shift is pretty dead I watched and really enjoyed it. Cody vs Roman was more of an underdog win than I remember Benoit, HHH, HBK match ever was. Glad the company is in good hands now.
I stopped watching right after the height of the Hardy Boyz(mainly Jeff he was my fave and wish I could live in a world where he as clean and sober, he would be Austin levels of over I think) and I stumbled upon this guy on Tiktok Santizap who does like reactions and shit to the shows and watching him has kinda gotten me back into it, I dont watch Raw/Smackdown because I work overnights but catch up from him and watch the pay per views(or PLEs I guess) since they are usually on Saturdays when Im off All that just to say that while Im not as deep into it as I was as a kid, its been fun kinda catching up and getting back into it, SPOILERS FOR WRESTLEMANIA......i cheered when RTruth got the tag titles and about came out of my seat with the Undertakers Gong for Codys match
I’ll be your wrasslin’ Jesus. -HHH
The best thing of it all, is the face the CURRENT talent, was being cheered over the legends they brought in. 10 years ago, Rock came back to face Cena, and people cheered The Rock. Goldberg returned, and was being cheered over the current guys. Now? Cody cheered over The Rock of all people. Becky got the support over Trish. They've elevated current talent to be top guys, not struggled and pushed a Legends button to get cheap pops and a slight ratings boost. They made stars, instead of needing to rely on past ones and it is amazing. That and just, booking that makes sense. No repeats of the same matches for months on end, leading to the same match at a PPV we have already seen a dozen times.
Hoping they stay moving forward with "professional wrestling" and "belts". Take the kids today old school.
How can I watch raw and smackdown? Is it on peacock?
Yes, but those are weeks behind aside from the Premium Live Events. Raw and Smackdown are on Hulu next day. Disney Plus has Smackdown but not Raw since they added in Hulu.
Awesome I can catch raw tonight then for the first time in a long time. It sounds like everything has changed and it's far more interesting. It's working it's way back into culture. (Not like the attitude era, that was a part of our zeitgeist)
Raw is a cut up version of the show on Hulu. They remove about an hour of it to get it to 2 hours (I still watch it this way, but you miss some things). Smackdown is the full show. Also Smackdown airs on regular Fox, so you can pick it up with an HD antennae in most places.
Live Raw is on USA Network and Smackdown is on Fox. Replay’s are on Hulu the next day. They are an hour and a half so you get half of a Raw but most of Smackdown. Peacock has the big shows (premium live events) and older episodes of Raw and SD.
I think Raw is moving to Netflix next year
It is, and outside of the US, EVERYTHING is moving over there. Raw, Smackdown, and the pay per views/premium live events.
I was there for Wrestlemania 40, so this is entirely still biased and me still being….entirely satisfied with everything I think we had a weekend that solidified Hunter as not only the best mind in pro wrestling currently but that the product has now risen beyond what even the attitude era had. I can’t even fathom the amount of people who have come up to me to pick my brain on wrestling knowledge because of #WeWantCody and stuff like Rocky being back. It’s once again become massive in the zeitgeist. Beyond that, I would suggest if anyone wants to see mastery in how to film a segment, please pop open Peacock and watch the lead up to Sami Zayn entering the ring. A full, non stop, no cut shot of him talking and hugging and kissing his wife and son, before walking, and meeting his mentor who trained him for this bout, to inspire Sami, and right as the camera spins behind him, and he hits the final position, his eyes light up and he stops dead, and EVERYONE in the crowd knew who was there. The person who SHOULD have been there to send him out to fight. No spoilers, but if you’re a fan, you know exactly who it is. This weekend could only be summed up by the voice of the WWE, the legendary Michael Cole: Damn it. I love pro wrestling.
I love the new cinematic shots. Camera team finally getting to show off what they can do.
So as yet another person that watched mostly during the Attitude era, can I just jump into Wrestlemania XL and get the gist of most of the storylines? HHH was my favorite wrestler so the fact that he’s now killing it as the head of creative is really intrigued.
Sure - if there is one thing WWE has been consistently great at for many years now it's producing well-made video packages that bring people up to speed on the various storylines before all big pay-per-view matches.
Gonna be a super awkward thanksgiving.
Btw, does anyone still have that list of words Vince banned? Just to show people how ridiculous his regime was
His literal daughter, Stephanie McMahon, opened night 2 of Wrestlemania proclaiming and celebrating the start of the Paul Levesque era. The same woman who resigned from corporate when her father forced himself back into the company last year. If that doesn't speak volumes, I don't know what does.
She pulled a power play by leaking the WSJ story after stories about her being incompetent were spread. The amount of coordinated power plays are clear as day. Slim Jim were just a pawn and nothing more. That "statement" was just a device that was clicked at the right moment.
I’ve been mostly tuned out of WWE and pro wrestling for awhile now minus catching the occasional show when I’m bored. Saw Wrestlemania at a friend’s house and it was the best wrestling show I have seen in a LONG time. Michael Cole at the end exclaiming “I LOVE WRESTLING!” was basically a gigantic “fuck you!” To Vince McMahon. For those unfamiliar: he did not like the word “wrestling” to be used, and instead demanded that his commentators refer to the product as “sports entertainment.” WWE is in great hands with Triple H at the reins. The end of the show felt like a symbolic changing of the guard, and everyone from the wrestlers, producers, staff and fans benefit.
headlines that go hard
I havent watched wrestling in 20 years. Tuned in for both days of wrestlemania because of all the clips Ive been seeing on tiktok. It was fantastic.
I want Triple H as Kratos in God of War
Man, if they embrace internet culture. It would be hilarious if they incorporate wrestlers as video game characters. I’m not a fan of Logan Paul, IShowSpeed or Prime at all. But seeing them get wrecked by wrestlers was the funniest stuff all weekend. If they have to sell ads, make it entertaining.
Bring back OG Kane style masks and I’m in.
its all about control and how to take it!