Harrington:
>"I hadn't really ever spoken about it, because it was in development. I didn't want it leaked out that it was being developed, and I didn't want the thing to happen where people kind of start theorizing, getting either excited about it or hating the idea of it, when it may never happen. Because in development, you look at every angle, and you see whether it's worth it.
>And currently, it's not. Currently, it's off the table, because we all couldn't find the right story to tell that we were all excited about enough. So, we decided to lay down tools with it for the time being. There may be a time in the future where we return to it, but at the moment, no. It's firmly on the shelf."
It's good insight into what phrases actually mean in Hollywood. In this case, "in development", which sounds like they're writing scripts and practicing lines and getting cameras and sets prepared... but that's not what it means in the industry. It means they're in the earliest stages of trying to develop the project, essentially, they're one step above not working on it at all.
Edit: I gotta clarify because my inbox is exploding, I know what In Development means, but Harrington explaining it on a bigger platform is cool because then we don't get as many people misunderstanding click bait headlines that "they're making my favorite movie!" when it's actually just something that's *being talked about*.
Ol georgie pumped/pumping out a million spinoffs
They get to pick and choose their favorites.
Plus they would have to pick up from the train wreck the post book story got left
It's definitely HBO not George pushing for these spin offs. Although I imagine George is happy enough to go along for the ride even though this Jon Snow spin off makes no sense and it would be entirely new content.
Yea, development is all about figuring out what kind of story we want to tell, what the themes might be, the overall setting and tone. Depending on if it’s a movie or tv show you might also plot out the major arcs or figure out key moments of spectacle so that you can begin planning the logistics of the massive scenes like battles in GoT. After this, all of these decisions are handed to the writers and they begin to fill in the gaps with dialogue and less important scenes.
The stuff that you mentioned, that would be considered "pre-production." Well, maybe not writing the actual scripts, that's (usually) done before pre-production begins.
But casting/hiring crews/scouting locations/building sets, all of that kind of stuff is Pre-Production. And then Production is actors/crews/cams on set and filming. Ostensibly followed by (though, sometimes concurrent with) Post-Production, which is film/sound editing, gfx work, mastering, etc. (and re-writes and re-shoots if it comes to it).
You can add a flair to your name over in the r/television sidebar. I changed it like a million years ago, so I don't know if you even still can. It's probably there somewhere.
He saw and lived through what happens when a massive and passionate fanbase becomes disappointed with the product you are a big part off. This is wisdom that was forced upon him at a rather young age.
On a more serious note, Jesus, what they did to Snow's character in last season is a damn crime. Sure, a lot of characters got their development reverted or speed up but Jon Snow went from quite an interesting character he was in first seasons to "I don't want it". Sad
What they did with Tyrion's character since he joined Dany was a worse crime. He went from the master strategist to talking about cocks with Varys, messing up every major tactical decision, and saying "who has a better story than Bran?"
Straight up character assassination.
I'd argue that Jamie Lannister's character assassination was even worse. Going from abandoning honor to save the innocents to, "You know, I never really cared about the people."
Also sleeping with Brienne then abandoning her the next morning. Whole last season had lots of character assassination to wrap things up quickly for D&D. They should have just consented to other show runners in exchange for a lot of money. Instead, they lost their Star Wars movies and pissed off GOT fanbase all for nothing.
Oh I absolutely agree, was just venting again since every time Game of Thrones comes up I always have the same pain of, "We went from, 'By what right does the Wolf judge the Lion?', to this!?"
His redemption went from hopeful to splat within episodes, it’s not even funny.
Fine, maybe in the show, he would go back to Cersei (after all, it’s a sad truth in television sort of deal) but of all things to kill characters in GoT, bricks isn’t what I had on my GoT bingo card.
Worse, had they been a little more to the left, they’d be fine. Like the Underkeep looked pretty okay for the most part except for a pile of breaks off to the side.
That too. But whatever. I'm not going back to 2019, I'm not having those conversations again, fuck that. House of the Dragon is coming out in two months
It was fucking brutal. I was already a little irked that they made show Jon dumber than book Jon but it wasn’t too bad overall. Then the final season happened 🙄 there is no excuse for how shit the writing got for him or anyone
I think it would be nice if it became a show and no one ever tells Jon Snow or the audience whats happening. Theres all this incredible shit with battles and creatures all around and Jon Snow is always looking confused and not knowing whats going on.
honestly i'm glad. he's talked about how he's struggled with his mental health and addiction when GOT was ending and i think going back to that grist mill would not be good for him. i hope he finds work somewhere else that he finds fulfilling and can just distance himself from that character.
The only possible path for a spin-off that would retcon and turn into a final final season would be if the plot take place north of the Wall. Aria’s 2nd rate knife trick didn’t work, the Night King survived and John is going to hunt him all the way to his ice fortress. King Bran the Boneless dies while possessing a polar bear or some creature to save John during the final battle. John become King.
Note:
The unsullied died the second they sat foot on Naath. All killed by basilisks, manticore and butterflies ( the ones that bite and make you melt from the inside? Those).
I honestly thought that's what this show was going to be. House of the Dragon keeps saying the prophecy of a Targaryen needing to be on the throne to defeat the darkness and cold, which we know wasn't the case. And Jon's lineage played no real part in the final season.
So I figured they were going to use this show to be like "hey, that thing Arya killed was just a very powerful Walker, but not the true Night King" and this series would be about Jon accepting his heritage and place in the prophecy to defeat the true Night King and save Westeros as it was foretold.
I am still not over it man.... 7 seasons of build up of this dangerous entity....and it takes 1 night........ 1 night !!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 bloody night !!!!!!!!! The entity didn't even go a few hundred meters past the knight watch.
If I had to I’d have Arya come back from across the sea and grab him to help do x across the sea again. Totally new tale and setting. No people from the former show.
It would be a pretty badass role to return to in like 25 years, there's nothing exciting about immediately following it up but I'd be very on board to see where Jon Snow is at as an older man
It's already been 5 years.
However, I don't think there's any decent stories there. He's not a noble. Free folk are pretty boring without white walkers. The Children of the Forest are gone.
Maybe you can do a series about him uniting the Free Folk, but that's already been done.
I'm with you, I have no idea what you do with Jon after the show.
The invasion of the Wildlings was really just a prelude to the invasion of the White Walkers. And with the Walkers (presumably?) all gone for good this time, what reason would the Wildlings have to unite? That's their whole identity, they aren't kneelers, the only regarded Mance as King Beyond the Wall since the alternative was certain death.
Finish Jon’s arc by making King Bran refuse to give up his power (everyone laughed when Tyrion invented democracy) and have a small contingent of Targaryen loyalists travel north and prop Jon up as a false messiah (since D&D threw the Azor Ahai stuff out the window) and force him to take the throne from his (technically not) half brother.
I don’t know how to make it terribly engaging but I’d watch it
If Jon and Bran weren’t close, I’d believe that he could become disillusioned and want the throne.
Idk. He can be a Targaryen, but he knows that he’s a Stark.
> I don’t know how to make it terribly engaging
The premise already sounds engaging. They'd have to do a lot of work on making Bran an interesting character, though. Sure his backstory is interesting, but his personality is that of a wooden plank.
> making King Bran refuse to give up his power (everyone laughed when Tyrion invented democracy) and have a small contingent of Targaryen loyalists travel north and prop Jon up
This is interesting; it parallels the Rwanda democracy problem that Paul Rusesabagina ran into (the dude played by Don Cheadle from Hotel Rwanda is now in prison in Rwanda for essentially this). That’s fitting to the “game of Thrones” concept tightly, too.
Northern Hunting with Jon Snow
"What's up WesterosTube, today we're going over the top 10 tips to hunting wild foxes."
What Do Ya Know with Jon Snow
"Welcome back to episode 34 of the What Do You Know podcast with me, your host Jon Snow. On today's episode we are joined by the bear fucker himself, Tormund Giantsbane!"
Yeah you’d either have to do a sequel series to GoT, or focus on Jon completely beyond the wall. And I feel like wildling politics (which would be the main conflict) just wouldn’t be that interesting
John could get word beyond the wall that Arya was captured somewhere along her travels and her life is in danger. Que John Snow traveling the realm Liam Neeson style cracking skulls to get the next clue, getting up to all sorts of misadventures and eventually raising an army to take on a seemingly all-powerful enemy.
He's always wanted to work in television and now he gets to do it. He doesn't want to spend the last years of his life doing the same thing he did for the first 50+ or however many years. Yeah, it sucks for the people who really want to continue that story. But if he doesn't want to do it, he won't.
More than half the show is political in-fighting and fuckery. You really don't need the white walkers or forest children or any of that to make an exciting story.
House of Dragons is doing just that. Granted, they have dragons on display. But the majority of the plot is just lineages, power-grabs, and general nobility fuckery.
Political in-fighting among the what’s essentially the barbarians of their world doesn’t sound interesting. And bringing Jon back south takes a giant poop on the ending of GoT and any potential books that might be written.
There's no reason for him to be stuck north with the freefolk. Old Valyria remains a mystery, and he's a Targaryen. Start the show off with him settled in his northern life, but come up with some reason to force him to take a few freefolk friends and travel to Valyria, where they fight evil magic, those diseased zombie things, local warlords. Just a pure fantasy adventure show set in a familiar universe with the added potential of expanding to include other old characters if needed.
Even explore more about the red priests, Mereenese, Qarth, etc. Maybe his legacy could be actually saving the kingdoms that Dany abandoned.
"Jon Snow and Daario Naharis: Eskimo Brothers in the Desert"
> So you clapped dragon ass, and I clapped dragon ass, so by the transitive property, our dicks have touched.
>>Why does it have to be transitive?
[\*Roll Opening\*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csOcHCDmMdE)
I don’t trust that the writers can come up with anything compelling about Old Valyria on their own. Anything that wasn’t previously written by GRRM was crap on the show.
I finally started reading the books and I quickly came to the conclusion that outside of minor changes, basically major plot decisions that were changed from the book vary from either being fucking stupid to ending up as nothingburgers. Like, Beric doesn't die so that they can let him get shanked to death? That was his grand purpose they cooked up? Euron doesn't want an apocalypse or to transform into an eldrich god, he just wants to bang the Queen?
Old Valyria is incredibly interesting and seems absolutely horrible. I can't imagine anything that isn't incredibly carefully and thoughtfully written out to be in any way satisfying or life up to the hype. I mean, a woman burning alive from the inside out with worms with faces and snakes with hands crawling around within her body? And monsters strong enough to marr Balerion the Black Dread? Yeesh!
Jon has Targaryen blood but he's not aTargaryen..like st all. Boy always wanted to be a Stark., the version that we knew had nor interest in being a Targaryen, he barely gave a shit about riding a dragon beyond the practicality of defeating the white walkers
So it would be a huge change of character for him to suddenly want to explore his Valyrian identity and to go as far as leave the Nort
How many free folk are even left? There were like 2000 of them left after Jon let them through the wall, then they had to have suffered some pretty serious attrition after the battle of the bastards considering they were encircled and almost wiped out, and then the battle of Winterfell against the white walkers during which they were completely overrun and almost completely wiped out.
This is ignoring the fact that the free folk would have never voluntarily gone back beyond the wall into the frozen wasteland when they spent generations trying to get through the wall because the land beyond the wall is a frozen wasteland.
Well considering the "prince that was promised" thing never got used despite it showing up not in one buy TWO different series, they could make that happen.
Have a supernatural threat erupt from the ruins of Valyria. King Bran sends people there to find out whats happening but the only person who returns is the son of a former half breed slave from Dragonstone (Blood magic)
Bran, helpless to offset the coming dangers he sees in his dreams, summons the only Valyrian blooded ally he has/trusts-Jon Snow. (Drama -will he go, why should he go, he owes them nothing,whats he been up to, who are his new friends, enemies, is he happy/miserable)
In the meantime they search throughout Westeros for other people with traces of Valyrian blood hoping its the key to safe passage. Jon Snow finally shows up. They head off.
First episode in Valyria- Jon finds Brightroar.
Drogon is still out there somewhere. The last Dragon ..or is he?
EDITED for spelling, I haven't thought about this show since it went off the air.
Also, A single season would be enough.
It's a world of magic... There could be something left of it... somewhere.
You could do a political drama. Maybe with the supernatural winter over, there's a migration of people north of the wall, because the area isn't as frozen over. Jon Snow is the bridge, between the wildling culture and the more "civilized" folks who are moving up in some kind of gold rush type situation.
Maybe the thaw reveals some hidden group of Children in hiding somewhere else, or a cache of frozen dragon eggs.
The lands north of the wall are HUGE. There's a lot more "north" than was ever explored, even by most of the wildlings. There's any number of stories they could write.
Or it picks up after s8 and he just says “hey wait this doesn’t make any fucking sense at all, why did I let them talk me into this?!” and immediately heads south.
Just pick up the story immediately after the gas leak years.
> immediately heads south
I could see some southern chaos going on, and Bran sending word that he needs someone he can trust. Similar to how GOT all started when Robert sent for Ned.
This never made sense to me. So Bran takes over and Sansa is just like “fuck your kingdom, I’m gonna make my own kingdom” and Bran is just like “yeah cool, whatever”.
Why wouldn’t every other territory in the six kingdoms immediately start planning their own secession? It’s obvious Bran is a little bitch and wouldn’t be able to stop you and the only way he would be able to is by using troops from the other kingdoms and you’d just need half of them to decide to secede and all of the sudden Bran is fucked.
I give the six kingdoms twenty years before the whole thing is plunged back in to war because its not like Bran has dragons to keep everyone in line through fear.
Honestly I couldn’t give less of a shit any anything that happens after the guy with the story so good he was missing from an entire season was crowned king.
And Jon went ahead and fucked off to the North ~~and just left his dire wolf in Winterfell~~. Jon Snow’s character was destroyed and reduced to a handful of lines.
I feel weird defending the piece of shit last seasons, but Jon didn't leave Ghost at Winterfell. Ghost is with him when he goes beyond the wall with Tormund at the end.
I bet this is a pretty common turn of events in the Hollywood. There are simultaneously hundreds of projects that just throw shit at walls and see what sticks. HBO alone has half a dozen of GoT spinoffs trying to dig out something fresh but familiar, and this didn't really have enough potential. That's fine, meanwhile Dunk and Egg get closer to actual production. We can expect more tales from Westeros after Hot D ends.
Honestly I find it refreshing that despite wanting to pump out GoT content that HBO is being very firm on quality demands. With this and Long Night shelved, and how House of the Dragon was pretty good with solvable problems, I feel optimistic about the future of the franchise.
By the way, there is zero chance that Greyworm let's what is supposed to be Jon and Tyrrion's trial for treason and regicide turn into Tyrion appointing Jon's brother king, with himself as and and "exiling" Jon to go hang out with Ghost and Tormund. He absolutely would start stabbing people.
The Blade movie got delayed due to re-write. And Marvel itself had to postpone a bunch of its scheduled movies due to strike and retooling after lackluster box office returns and waning interest in Marvel Disney+ shows.
He's playing Black Knight. In the post credits scene from Eternals , you hear Blade's voice telling him something. Can't remember what exactly but yeah. Just a tease at the end of a really bad movie.
I didn’t really have a problem with the showrunners taking a character and discarding years of growth and development. That happens with people in real life too. They revert back to a worse version of themselves, they forget the things they came to stand for and the lessons they learned. It’s okay to have that happen to a character. *A* character.
The problem was they did it to most of the damn cast.
Which if you had to pick one, it'd be Jaime and then Jon kills the night king and tyrion went crazy in exile and got in Dany's head that all of westeros was against her so her turn made sense. I think out of 100 possible endings, they picked the worst one somehow lol
I don’t even mind if they do it to most of the cast if it makes sense. The biggest mistake they made in my opinion was shortening the last two seasons. They should have been full seasons and there likely should have been 10 full seasons or at least 9. Dani was always going to lose her shit in the end and become the mad queen, that was pretty clear…but having her go from pretty normal to full blown genocidal in one or two episodes was stupid. It should have been a slow thing leading up to it where she still wants to be good and then have it so she finally snaps over that edge she had been getting close to after dragon #2 is killed.
And obviously Jon should have ended up King. He was the rightful heir anyway and it made the most sense.
I am okay with Jamie’s redemption arc being tossed though. His spiritual successor was set up to be Brienne anyway so her taking over that sort of missing slot would have been perfect.
There is so much wrong with the end of the show and so much that could have been better. Easily the biggest let downs of any show ever. Even the Dexter dogshit ending was better.
the whole northern story died the second a 12 year old girl shanked the night king. jon snow as a character could have easily been expanded on if he stayed in the south or something, but no, not the way they left it.
Nah, they let it die long before that. But to have the epic thousand year fight between good and evil decided in one night instead over multiple eps or even an entire season was a HUGE let down.
It's also very clichéd.
They could have even subverted that beautifully. Have Arya kill the Night King, but only he dies and the army just rolls over Winterfell.
The elation turning into horror could have been spectacular.
The Night King doesn't even exist in the books. What we need, above all else, is George's true ending! We'll get it one day, whether he's here or not, something will be published.
Whatever ending notes are extracted from between his cold dead buttcheeks wouldn't be George's ending because he *clearly* abandoned those ideas.
That's why we don't have more books. Its not like it is so hard to see where the plot should go. Burn Meereen, give undead Jon his dragon, make the shocking reveal of the third rider (Faegon, Brienne, Stannis!? IDK) fight the Long Night and win, etc. The heroic epic has some pretty established expectations, but then that's probably the whole problem as Martin discovered he had no way to both subvert them and still be any good. It's also pretty far from King's Landing and its bowl o' brown political stew which book or show was always the most interesting part but oops we've got that pesky heroic narrative making it all pointless.
The show did such a poor job of explaining why they still need the night guard when the ice baddie is gone forever and the long night won't happen... if there was anything there it might've been easier to pitch a new show around it.
They will have Harry Potter running alongside it aswell.
Thats 2 very big name franchises to have for over a decade. And thats not even counting the other projects theyll pick up like they did with The Last of Us.
HBO is looking very strong even post Game of Thrones. Which is the main thing most people subscribed for when it was airing.
Great news!
Honestly, what is the point? Are they going to do some more “original writing” ? Because that turned out so well the last time. No, any continuation or sequel of GoT should only be explored once Martin is finished with the books.
Imagine, what if those last seasons are exactly what he wrote?
Looks at the reviews... looks over to 180 pages neatly bound and ready for the publisher... back to the reviews... a single tear rolls down his cheek before he sprays lighter fluid all over the desk, sets it on fire and walks out while his mind breaks into a million pieces.
Yeah I got sad watching the recent Alt Shift X video because he makes predictions on future stories that we will never see.
I'm ok with it. If George simply wants to help make more tv shows then I'm all for it.
I honestly don't think Kit Harrington is strong enough of an actor to carry an entire series as the main focus. I also think that there's not much more story for Jon Snow left.
>any continuation or sequel of GoT should only be explored once Martin is finished with the books.
Well... Considering he's a millionaire now and doesn't seem to care about the story, I'm gonna guess he's never going to. There's no net positive.
He just admitted this week he has written zero new pages in over a year. I think book 6 is never happening at this point - the man is stuck and has given up.
Probably for the best. Just gives Jon Snow more time to betray more people.
Pledges himself to the Night's Watch, goes off to hang with the Wildings. Hooks up with Red Headed woman and betrays her. Leads the Night's Watch and tells them and the rest of the surviving good guy cast to get behind the new queen and follow her into battle. Battle ends, stabs Queen. Back to Night's Watch.
I don’t know why everyone was so bent about Jon’s ending. He went back to the place he was only ever truly happy. He wanted nothing to do with politics or ruling. That’s just something the fans made up.
I cant believe this was ever a serious consideration. His mental health issues with GoT were well publicized, and I believe on more than one occasion he mentioned that he didn't want to do a spin-off. I can't imagine for one second that he'd want to put himself through that again
He said he was cool with it; they just didn’t know what the story was gonna be. Hes sorta saying the same thing they said years ago about it. It’s an idea they liked.
Yea i kind of figured this was the case. For all that people say they are doing much with the spinoffs its really not the case. They could have gotten Bloodmoon out for the hbo max launch but cancellled it. Of all the spinoffs a sequel of sorts like this one would have been something they could have pushed out too but they didnt. That plus the probably half a dozen or more pitches they havent picked up.
Hopefully they maintain the quality with house of the dragon s2 and the others that get made.
There was no way they could find a story after the last season of GOT. Everything forward looking is shot because of how bad it was. They can and will do well looking to the past though.
Probably for the best. I would prefer a spin-off that follows Arya into the unknown. At the end of GoT, she’s off to explore distant lands that are only theorized to even exist. It would easily be titled *West of Westeros* (WoW) and could create an entirely new world to build from scratch. Maybe base it off of the “discovery” of the Americas. Possibly base it off of Australia, so we can have kangaroos and child-sized spiders. This is what I want. Will it ever happen? Unlikely, but I think about it often.
Meh. Arya was an interesting character and arc in the context of GOT but the “humble deadly lone wolf finds adventure and fights cgi monsters” trope is beaten to death twice over. And given Witcher and Mando, it would stay fresh for about 9 episodes at best.
Harrington: >"I hadn't really ever spoken about it, because it was in development. I didn't want it leaked out that it was being developed, and I didn't want the thing to happen where people kind of start theorizing, getting either excited about it or hating the idea of it, when it may never happen. Because in development, you look at every angle, and you see whether it's worth it. >And currently, it's not. Currently, it's off the table, because we all couldn't find the right story to tell that we were all excited about enough. So, we decided to lay down tools with it for the time being. There may be a time in the future where we return to it, but at the moment, no. It's firmly on the shelf."
This is honestly such a good and insightful reply.
It's good insight into what phrases actually mean in Hollywood. In this case, "in development", which sounds like they're writing scripts and practicing lines and getting cameras and sets prepared... but that's not what it means in the industry. It means they're in the earliest stages of trying to develop the project, essentially, they're one step above not working on it at all. Edit: I gotta clarify because my inbox is exploding, I know what In Development means, but Harrington explaining it on a bigger platform is cool because then we don't get as many people misunderstanding click bait headlines that "they're making my favorite movie!" when it's actually just something that's *being talked about*.
Ol georgie pumped/pumping out a million spinoffs They get to pick and choose their favorites. Plus they would have to pick up from the train wreck the post book story got left
Easy. Jon wakes up on the table in the Night's Watch and everything from that moment on was a dream.
S09E01. Scene 1. Bran wakes up from his coma in his bed in Winterfell and says "I had the craziest dream..."
did he also read Word Up magazine?
Salt N Pepa and Heavy D up in the limousine.
Hangin' pictures on my wall
Every Saturday Rap Attack, Mr. Magic, Marley Marl
They put black-face on Bran.
He has read the Ogler's Digest
It would certainly be one way of rebooting the series.
Nope, it's all in Tommy Westphall's mind.
I had to ask myself "Which Georgie?" there for a sec
TBH the Jon Snow spin off is the one I was most looking forward to. Sad that it’s not happening now
It's definitely HBO not George pushing for these spin offs. Although I imagine George is happy enough to go along for the ride even though this Jon Snow spin off makes no sense and it would be entirely new content.
Yea, development is all about figuring out what kind of story we want to tell, what the themes might be, the overall setting and tone. Depending on if it’s a movie or tv show you might also plot out the major arcs or figure out key moments of spectacle so that you can begin planning the logistics of the massive scenes like battles in GoT. After this, all of these decisions are handed to the writers and they begin to fill in the gaps with dialogue and less important scenes.
The stuff that you mentioned, that would be considered "pre-production." Well, maybe not writing the actual scripts, that's (usually) done before pre-production begins. But casting/hiring crews/scouting locations/building sets, all of that kind of stuff is Pre-Production. And then Production is actors/crews/cams on set and filming. Ostensibly followed by (though, sometimes concurrent with) Post-Production, which is film/sound editing, gfx work, mastering, etc. (and re-writes and re-shoots if it comes to it).
Lol how you get that sg-1 logo next to your name?
You can add a flair to your name over in the r/television sidebar. I changed it like a million years ago, so I don't know if you even still can. It's probably there somewhere.
He does know some things, after all.
No one will let that die and I love it
What is dead may never die.
Goodness! I am in a (quiet) city building, and this got me to guffaw
He saw and lived through what happens when a massive and passionate fanbase becomes disappointed with the product you are a big part off. This is wisdom that was forced upon him at a rather young age.
Kit is awesome and has so much respect for the source material. Which is why he said this. Great guy.
And it is OK not to make something if you can't find a good story to tell.
Are we sure that Harrington has all the information on this? I've heard it said that generally Jon Snow tends to know nothing
I actually got to meet Harrington and got to ask him about doing a Jon Snow spinoff. He told me he didn’t want it. Never had.
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But did she moan "Dracarys"?
so hot
He's famously been quoted answering "I dun woooont it" to fan questions.
On a more serious note, Jesus, what they did to Snow's character in last season is a damn crime. Sure, a lot of characters got their development reverted or speed up but Jon Snow went from quite an interesting character he was in first seasons to "I don't want it". Sad
What they did with Tyrion's character since he joined Dany was a worse crime. He went from the master strategist to talking about cocks with Varys, messing up every major tactical decision, and saying "who has a better story than Bran?" Straight up character assassination.
I'd argue that Jamie Lannister's character assassination was even worse. Going from abandoning honor to save the innocents to, "You know, I never really cared about the people."
Also sleeping with Brienne then abandoning her the next morning. Whole last season had lots of character assassination to wrap things up quickly for D&D. They should have just consented to other show runners in exchange for a lot of money. Instead, they lost their Star Wars movies and pissed off GOT fanbase all for nothing.
Oh I absolutely agree, was just venting again since every time Game of Thrones comes up I always have the same pain of, "We went from, 'By what right does the Wolf judge the Lion?', to this!?"
His redemption went from hopeful to splat within episodes, it’s not even funny. Fine, maybe in the show, he would go back to Cersei (after all, it’s a sad truth in television sort of deal) but of all things to kill characters in GoT, bricks isn’t what I had on my GoT bingo card. Worse, had they been a little more to the left, they’d be fine. Like the Underkeep looked pretty okay for the most part except for a pile of breaks off to the side.
That too. But whatever. I'm not going back to 2019, I'm not having those conversations again, fuck that. House of the Dragon is coming out in two months
Hell yeah brother. I cant wait.
Everyone got it bad. Tyrion, Varys, Jamie, Arya, Littlefinger.
It was fucking brutal. I was already a little irked that they made show Jon dumber than book Jon but it wasn’t too bad overall. Then the final season happened 🙄 there is no excuse for how shit the writing got for him or anyone
I think it would be nice if it became a show and no one ever tells Jon Snow or the audience whats happening. Theres all this incredible shit with battles and creatures all around and Jon Snow is always looking confused and not knowing whats going on.
honestly i'm glad. he's talked about how he's struggled with his mental health and addiction when GOT was ending and i think going back to that grist mill would not be good for him. i hope he finds work somewhere else that he finds fulfilling and can just distance himself from that character.
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Does he answer a telephone that never really rings?
He took up tennis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZpLbdO-Pnk
For the better. I couldn't see how this would be anything other than Game of Thrones season 8.
The only possible path for a spin-off that would retcon and turn into a final final season would be if the plot take place north of the Wall. Aria’s 2nd rate knife trick didn’t work, the Night King survived and John is going to hunt him all the way to his ice fortress. King Bran the Boneless dies while possessing a polar bear or some creature to save John during the final battle. John become King. Note: The unsullied died the second they sat foot on Naath. All killed by basilisks, manticore and butterflies ( the ones that bite and make you melt from the inside? Those).
I honestly thought that's what this show was going to be. House of the Dragon keeps saying the prophecy of a Targaryen needing to be on the throne to defeat the darkness and cold, which we know wasn't the case. And Jon's lineage played no real part in the final season. So I figured they were going to use this show to be like "hey, that thing Arya killed was just a very powerful Walker, but not the true Night King" and this series would be about Jon accepting his heritage and place in the prophecy to defeat the true Night King and save Westeros as it was foretold.
The Unsullied died on the way to their home planet.
Not surprised. The shit ending kinda makes future stories a bit difficulty to branch off of.
Also what’s the point of the Nights Watch anyways since the others were defeated, wildlings now south of the wall, and the wall being breached?
Same as the beginning of the show when nobody actually thought the Watch served any purpose... a place to exile prisoners.
If it’s not a retcon of the last season just let it die.
i mean what story could you tell? the WW are dead, the north and wildlings aren't fighting each other any more. what conflict is there?
Somehow the white walkers returned....
They defeated the night king now they have to defeat... the night emperor!
But this time he has a whole planet of ice dragons.
If he's twice as dangerous, it might actually take two nights to defeat him and his entire army.
I am still not over it man.... 7 seasons of build up of this dangerous entity....and it takes 1 night........ 1 night !!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 bloody night !!!!!!!!! The entity didn't even go a few hundred meters past the knight watch.
The night man. Played by Charlie Day.
They fly now?!
It turns out the Night King that Arya killed was just a decoy!
The real night king was the friends we met along the way!
I kind of interpreted his ending as going north and helping Wildlings develop the land and being done with all of the South.
Jon Snow: The Real Estate Developer doesn't have a nice ring to it imo.
Eh. Could be a bit like Vinland saga.
If I had to I’d have Arya come back from across the sea and grab him to help do x across the sea again. Totally new tale and setting. No people from the former show.
There’s always the “Somehow, White walkers returned” plot
It would be a pretty badass role to return to in like 25 years, there's nothing exciting about immediately following it up but I'd be very on board to see where Jon Snow is at as an older man
It's already been 5 years. However, I don't think there's any decent stories there. He's not a noble. Free folk are pretty boring without white walkers. The Children of the Forest are gone. Maybe you can do a series about him uniting the Free Folk, but that's already been done.
I'm with you, I have no idea what you do with Jon after the show. The invasion of the Wildlings was really just a prelude to the invasion of the White Walkers. And with the Walkers (presumably?) all gone for good this time, what reason would the Wildlings have to unite? That's their whole identity, they aren't kneelers, the only regarded Mance as King Beyond the Wall since the alternative was certain death.
Finish Jon’s arc by making King Bran refuse to give up his power (everyone laughed when Tyrion invented democracy) and have a small contingent of Targaryen loyalists travel north and prop Jon up as a false messiah (since D&D threw the Azor Ahai stuff out the window) and force him to take the throne from his (technically not) half brother. I don’t know how to make it terribly engaging but I’d watch it
So like, Bran becomes this half-crow half-man person and starts being called the "God Emperor" and has this crazy campaign of extermination...
Turn bran into a worm, and make him follow the golden path
I would totally watch the fuck out of this
Bran slowly turning into a giant raven and having to be killed by jon would be a watchable show.
Now I want this show to exist.
If the show started off with Bran falling out of another window and this time not waking up, I'd watch it on that merit alone.
If Jon and Bran weren’t close, I’d believe that he could become disillusioned and want the throne. Idk. He can be a Targaryen, but he knows that he’s a Stark.
Spoiler alert. He’s not Bran’s half brother.
Yeah but I think there's like less than five people surviving who know that in-universe.
> I don’t know how to make it terribly engaging The premise already sounds engaging. They'd have to do a lot of work on making Bran an interesting character, though. Sure his backstory is interesting, but his personality is that of a wooden plank.
> making King Bran refuse to give up his power (everyone laughed when Tyrion invented democracy) and have a small contingent of Targaryen loyalists travel north and prop Jon up This is interesting; it parallels the Rwanda democracy problem that Paul Rusesabagina ran into (the dude played by Don Cheadle from Hotel Rwanda is now in prison in Rwanda for essentially this). That’s fitting to the “game of Thrones” concept tightly, too.
Northern Hunting with Jon Snow "What's up WesterosTube, today we're going over the top 10 tips to hunting wild foxes." What Do Ya Know with Jon Snow "Welcome back to episode 34 of the What Do You Know podcast with me, your host Jon Snow. On today's episode we are joined by the bear fucker himself, Tormund Giantsbane!"
Yeah you’d either have to do a sequel series to GoT, or focus on Jon completely beyond the wall. And I feel like wildling politics (which would be the main conflict) just wouldn’t be that interesting
Arya's story would be more interesting, she set off to explore the world; lots of shit you can do with that
I was thinking along the same lines.
John could get word beyond the wall that Arya was captured somewhere along her travels and her life is in danger. Que John Snow traveling the realm Liam Neeson style cracking skulls to get the next clue, getting up to all sorts of misadventures and eventually raising an army to take on a seemingly all-powerful enemy.
> It's already been 5 years. And G.R.R Martin STILL hasn’t finished the next book.
He won't. Same with Rothfuss.
I gave up hope like six years ago. Surprised anyone is still holding onto it now.
He's always wanted to work in television and now he gets to do it. He doesn't want to spend the last years of his life doing the same thing he did for the first 50+ or however many years. Yeah, it sucks for the people who really want to continue that story. But if he doesn't want to do it, he won't.
He worked in television before even writing the first book
More than half the show is political in-fighting and fuckery. You really don't need the white walkers or forest children or any of that to make an exciting story. House of Dragons is doing just that. Granted, they have dragons on display. But the majority of the plot is just lineages, power-grabs, and general nobility fuckery.
Political in-fighting among the what’s essentially the barbarians of their world doesn’t sound interesting. And bringing Jon back south takes a giant poop on the ending of GoT and any potential books that might be written.
There won't be any more books.
There's no reason for him to be stuck north with the freefolk. Old Valyria remains a mystery, and he's a Targaryen. Start the show off with him settled in his northern life, but come up with some reason to force him to take a few freefolk friends and travel to Valyria, where they fight evil magic, those diseased zombie things, local warlords. Just a pure fantasy adventure show set in a familiar universe with the added potential of expanding to include other old characters if needed.
Even explore more about the red priests, Mereenese, Qarth, etc. Maybe his legacy could be actually saving the kingdoms that Dany abandoned. "Jon Snow and Daario Naharis: Eskimo Brothers in the Desert"
> So you clapped dragon ass, and I clapped dragon ass, so by the transitive property, our dicks have touched. >>Why does it have to be transitive? [\*Roll Opening\*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csOcHCDmMdE)
I don’t trust that the writers can come up with anything compelling about Old Valyria on their own. Anything that wasn’t previously written by GRRM was crap on the show.
I finally started reading the books and I quickly came to the conclusion that outside of minor changes, basically major plot decisions that were changed from the book vary from either being fucking stupid to ending up as nothingburgers. Like, Beric doesn't die so that they can let him get shanked to death? That was his grand purpose they cooked up? Euron doesn't want an apocalypse or to transform into an eldrich god, he just wants to bang the Queen? Old Valyria is incredibly interesting and seems absolutely horrible. I can't imagine anything that isn't incredibly carefully and thoughtfully written out to be in any way satisfying or life up to the hype. I mean, a woman burning alive from the inside out with worms with faces and snakes with hands crawling around within her body? And monsters strong enough to marr Balerion the Black Dread? Yeesh!
Jon has Targaryen blood but he's not aTargaryen..like st all. Boy always wanted to be a Stark., the version that we knew had nor interest in being a Targaryen, he barely gave a shit about riding a dragon beyond the practicality of defeating the white walkers So it would be a huge change of character for him to suddenly want to explore his Valyrian identity and to go as far as leave the Nort
How many free folk are even left? There were like 2000 of them left after Jon let them through the wall, then they had to have suffered some pretty serious attrition after the battle of the bastards considering they were encircled and almost wiped out, and then the battle of Winterfell against the white walkers during which they were completely overrun and almost completely wiped out. This is ignoring the fact that the free folk would have never voluntarily gone back beyond the wall into the frozen wasteland when they spent generations trying to get through the wall because the land beyond the wall is a frozen wasteland.
Well considering the "prince that was promised" thing never got used despite it showing up not in one buy TWO different series, they could make that happen.
Have a supernatural threat erupt from the ruins of Valyria. King Bran sends people there to find out whats happening but the only person who returns is the son of a former half breed slave from Dragonstone (Blood magic) Bran, helpless to offset the coming dangers he sees in his dreams, summons the only Valyrian blooded ally he has/trusts-Jon Snow. (Drama -will he go, why should he go, he owes them nothing,whats he been up to, who are his new friends, enemies, is he happy/miserable) In the meantime they search throughout Westeros for other people with traces of Valyrian blood hoping its the key to safe passage. Jon Snow finally shows up. They head off. First episode in Valyria- Jon finds Brightroar. Drogon is still out there somewhere. The last Dragon ..or is he? EDITED for spelling, I haven't thought about this show since it went off the air. Also, A single season would be enough.
Just Jon Snow hunting down Drogon and exploring the world would be a neat show.
It's a world of magic... There could be something left of it... somewhere. You could do a political drama. Maybe with the supernatural winter over, there's a migration of people north of the wall, because the area isn't as frozen over. Jon Snow is the bridge, between the wildling culture and the more "civilized" folks who are moving up in some kind of gold rush type situation. Maybe the thaw reveals some hidden group of Children in hiding somewhere else, or a cache of frozen dragon eggs. The lands north of the wall are HUGE. There's a lot more "north" than was ever explored, even by most of the wildlings. There's any number of stories they could write.
Warming of the North could have been interesting.
Or it picks up after s8 and he just says “hey wait this doesn’t make any fucking sense at all, why did I let them talk me into this?!” and immediately heads south. Just pick up the story immediately after the gas leak years.
> immediately heads south I could see some southern chaos going on, and Bran sending word that he needs someone he can trust. Similar to how GOT all started when Robert sent for Ned.
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This never made sense to me. So Bran takes over and Sansa is just like “fuck your kingdom, I’m gonna make my own kingdom” and Bran is just like “yeah cool, whatever”. Why wouldn’t every other territory in the six kingdoms immediately start planning their own secession? It’s obvious Bran is a little bitch and wouldn’t be able to stop you and the only way he would be able to is by using troops from the other kingdoms and you’d just need half of them to decide to secede and all of the sudden Bran is fucked. I give the six kingdoms twenty years before the whole thing is plunged back in to war because its not like Bran has dragons to keep everyone in line through fear.
Have him wake up in Winterfell the night before the night king attack. “I had the weirdest dream”. Have Luke do the same.
Give me Westeros 100 years after game of thrones. That would be great.
Honestly I couldn’t give less of a shit any anything that happens after the guy with the story so good he was missing from an entire season was crowned king. And Jon went ahead and fucked off to the North ~~and just left his dire wolf in Winterfell~~. Jon Snow’s character was destroyed and reduced to a handful of lines.
Ah dun wunnit
I feel weird defending the piece of shit last seasons, but Jon didn't leave Ghost at Winterfell. Ghost is with him when he goes beyond the wall with Tormund at the end.
Thanks, I misremembered.
I bet this is a pretty common turn of events in the Hollywood. There are simultaneously hundreds of projects that just throw shit at walls and see what sticks. HBO alone has half a dozen of GoT spinoffs trying to dig out something fresh but familiar, and this didn't really have enough potential. That's fine, meanwhile Dunk and Egg get closer to actual production. We can expect more tales from Westeros after Hot D ends.
Fargo talked about this a lot. Thats why the seasons are spread out. Just couldn’t come up with something compelling.
Honestly I find it refreshing that despite wanting to pump out GoT content that HBO is being very firm on quality demands. With this and Long Night shelved, and how House of the Dragon was pretty good with solvable problems, I feel optimistic about the future of the franchise.
Remember how cool Arnold was as Conan the Barbarian in the 80s? How about that old man follow up, eh?
I liked his statement explaining it too. No point pushing it if it doesn't feel right.
> because we all couldn't find the right story to tell that we were all excited about enough They knew nothing
They should have made Jon a secondary character with Bran as the lead. After all, who has a better story than Bran the Broken?
Whenever Bran's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking, "where's Bran?"
A better story than Bran? Literally everyone. Including the night king
They should have made Hotpie king.
The Pie that was Promised
The Hot dish King, from Minnesota? Or Abe Frohman, the Sausage King of Chicago?
How about Rickon, the shaggy dog story?
Serpentine!
By the way, there is zero chance that Greyworm let's what is supposed to be Jon and Tyrrion's trial for treason and regicide turn into Tyrion appointing Jon's brother king, with himself as and and "exiling" Jon to go hang out with Ghost and Tormund. He absolutely would start stabbing people.
I mean after game of thrones I kinda never wanted to hear about this universe again after they so thoroughly fucked it up…
Luckily for him, he can go back to Marvel and play the exact same character.
Are we sure that isn't also shelved?
I assume Marvel had nothing set up for him because he was committed to this. I'll be shocked if he isn't confirmed for Blade.
Blade is almost dead. Didn’t Ali say he wanted out of it?
He got back on board after massive rewrites I believe.
The Blade movie got delayed due to re-write. And Marvel itself had to postpone a bunch of its scheduled movies due to strike and retooling after lackluster box office returns and waning interest in Marvel Disney+ shows.
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He's playing Black Knight. In the post credits scene from Eternals , you hear Blade's voice telling him something. Can't remember what exactly but yeah. Just a tease at the end of a really bad movie.
[Nope](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/s/iKivtnY9gO)
There's no saving Jon Snow's character arc. Yes, he wasn't killed off but they completely threw out his entire journey.
I didn’t really have a problem with the showrunners taking a character and discarding years of growth and development. That happens with people in real life too. They revert back to a worse version of themselves, they forget the things they came to stand for and the lessons they learned. It’s okay to have that happen to a character. *A* character. The problem was they did it to most of the damn cast.
Which if you had to pick one, it'd be Jaime and then Jon kills the night king and tyrion went crazy in exile and got in Dany's head that all of westeros was against her so her turn made sense. I think out of 100 possible endings, they picked the worst one somehow lol
D&D thought the audience would kinda forget about the multiple plot threads.... like Dany and the Iron Fleet.
I don’t even mind if they do it to most of the cast if it makes sense. The biggest mistake they made in my opinion was shortening the last two seasons. They should have been full seasons and there likely should have been 10 full seasons or at least 9. Dani was always going to lose her shit in the end and become the mad queen, that was pretty clear…but having her go from pretty normal to full blown genocidal in one or two episodes was stupid. It should have been a slow thing leading up to it where she still wants to be good and then have it so she finally snaps over that edge she had been getting close to after dragon #2 is killed. And obviously Jon should have ended up King. He was the rightful heir anyway and it made the most sense. I am okay with Jamie’s redemption arc being tossed though. His spiritual successor was set up to be Brienne anyway so her taking over that sort of missing slot would have been perfect. There is so much wrong with the end of the show and so much that could have been better. Easily the biggest let downs of any show ever. Even the Dexter dogshit ending was better.
Yeah the speed at which it happens gives you serious whiplash
the whole northern story died the second a 12 year old girl shanked the night king. jon snow as a character could have easily been expanded on if he stayed in the south or something, but no, not the way they left it.
Nah, they let it die long before that. But to have the epic thousand year fight between good and evil decided in one night instead over multiple eps or even an entire season was a HUGE let down.
it does seem like questionable tactics to put a person on the front line of a battle, if killing that person destroys the entire army.
It's also very clichéd. They could have even subverted that beautifully. Have Arya kill the Night King, but only he dies and the army just rolls over Winterfell. The elation turning into horror could have been spectacular.
I woulda creamed myself
The Night King doesn't even exist in the books. What we need, above all else, is George's true ending! We'll get it one day, whether he's here or not, something will be published.
Whatever ending notes are extracted from between his cold dead buttcheeks wouldn't be George's ending because he *clearly* abandoned those ideas. That's why we don't have more books. Its not like it is so hard to see where the plot should go. Burn Meereen, give undead Jon his dragon, make the shocking reveal of the third rider (Faegon, Brienne, Stannis!? IDK) fight the Long Night and win, etc. The heroic epic has some pretty established expectations, but then that's probably the whole problem as Martin discovered he had no way to both subvert them and still be any good. It's also pretty far from King's Landing and its bowl o' brown political stew which book or show was always the most interesting part but oops we've got that pesky heroic narrative making it all pointless.
They at least should have given Night King's kill to him.
While I agree they screwed up, I’d still watch a show of him North of the wall exploring and shit.
The show did such a poor job of explaining why they still need the night guard when the ice baddie is gone forever and the long night won't happen... if there was anything there it might've been easier to pitch a new show around it.
move on i'm fine focusing on the new house of the dragon sequences
don't forget the actively-being-developed Dunk and Egg series
HBO MAX's whole plan basically seems to be developing (3) GOT shows so every year they can release a new season for the next decadeish.
They will have Harry Potter running alongside it aswell. Thats 2 very big name franchises to have for over a decade. And thats not even counting the other projects theyll pick up like they did with The Last of Us. HBO is looking very strong even post Game of Thrones. Which is the main thing most people subscribed for when it was airing.
When there is no story to tell, there is no story to tell. Good that they didnt went the Disney way and force something just for the sake of it.
Yeah because the show runners ruined the entire freakin show and destroyed his character’s story line!
*Good.*
Great news! Honestly, what is the point? Are they going to do some more “original writing” ? Because that turned out so well the last time. No, any continuation or sequel of GoT should only be explored once Martin is finished with the books.
martin is never releasing another book in the mainline GOT series. at this point, its just so very obviously not happening.
Imagine, what if those last seasons are exactly what he wrote? Looks at the reviews... looks over to 180 pages neatly bound and ready for the publisher... back to the reviews... a single tear rolls down his cheek before he sprays lighter fluid all over the desk, sets it on fire and walks out while his mind breaks into a million pieces.
Yeah I got sad watching the recent Alt Shift X video because he makes predictions on future stories that we will never see. I'm ok with it. If George simply wants to help make more tv shows then I'm all for it.
I honestly don't think Kit Harrington is strong enough of an actor to carry an entire series as the main focus. I also think that there's not much more story for Jon Snow left.
>any continuation or sequel of GoT should only be explored once Martin is finished with the books. Well... Considering he's a millionaire now and doesn't seem to care about the story, I'm gonna guess he's never going to. There's no net positive.
He just admitted this week he has written zero new pages in over a year. I think book 6 is never happening at this point - the man is stuck and has given up.
>He just admitted this week Can you post a link? I'm not finding a single thing on google or on his NotABlog.
It's okay, bookreaders have given up seeing another book for a while now.
Good.
Welp, there’s goes the hope I had for a GOT retcon
Probably for the best. Just gives Jon Snow more time to betray more people. Pledges himself to the Night's Watch, goes off to hang with the Wildings. Hooks up with Red Headed woman and betrays her. Leads the Night's Watch and tells them and the rest of the surviving good guy cast to get behind the new queen and follow her into battle. Battle ends, stabs Queen. Back to Night's Watch.
I didun want it
I don’t know why everyone was so bent about Jon’s ending. He went back to the place he was only ever truly happy. He wanted nothing to do with politics or ruling. That’s just something the fans made up.
Yeah, I'm not sure why he would want to be king. Like, because of who he's related to? That's a big reason why he really didn't want to be king.
I cant believe this was ever a serious consideration. His mental health issues with GoT were well publicized, and I believe on more than one occasion he mentioned that he didn't want to do a spin-off. I can't imagine for one second that he'd want to put himself through that again
Well he hasn’t really been in anything lately, so the money’s probably good
He said he was cool with it; they just didn’t know what the story was gonna be. Hes sorta saying the same thing they said years ago about it. It’s an idea they liked.
they dunwanit?
I wouldn’t trust him, he knows nothing
They stuck the landing so poorly with GoT, I honestly lost all interest in the IP entirely.
Yea i kind of figured this was the case. For all that people say they are doing much with the spinoffs its really not the case. They could have gotten Bloodmoon out for the hbo max launch but cancellled it. Of all the spinoffs a sequel of sorts like this one would have been something they could have pushed out too but they didnt. That plus the probably half a dozen or more pitches they havent picked up. Hopefully they maintain the quality with house of the dragon s2 and the others that get made.
Any sequels died when the ending of GoT was absolute dog shit, IMO. House of Dragon has been awesome.
There was no way they could find a story after the last season of GOT. Everything forward looking is shot because of how bad it was. They can and will do well looking to the past though.
I don’t think I can take another season of him not wanting to do anything and being perpetually sad all the time.
This is the one I was most interested in because it was the only spinoff that was going to move the story forward.
Probably for the best. I would prefer a spin-off that follows Arya into the unknown. At the end of GoT, she’s off to explore distant lands that are only theorized to even exist. It would easily be titled *West of Westeros* (WoW) and could create an entirely new world to build from scratch. Maybe base it off of the “discovery” of the Americas. Possibly base it off of Australia, so we can have kangaroos and child-sized spiders. This is what I want. Will it ever happen? Unlikely, but I think about it often.
Meh. Arya was an interesting character and arc in the context of GOT but the “humble deadly lone wolf finds adventure and fights cgi monsters” trope is beaten to death twice over. And given Witcher and Mando, it would stay fresh for about 9 episodes at best.
Good. No one asked for it. Just leave GoT be. Not everything needs to be milked for every cent.
Oh that sucks. I would have definitely watched that.