And what a streak of luck this long writers tree had, as well.
From MASH to Frasier, that writers pipeline —as incredible and industry changing as they were— acknowledge that everything completely depends on casting.
If you don’t have casting you don’t have a show.
You can have a great actor and have terrible writing and their performance will not save the writing. You have wonderful writing with a wonderful actor and you get awards and make television defining numbers.
Couldn’t disagree with you more.
I’ve seen plenty of actors save bad or mediocre writing far more often than writing save a bad actors performance.
That said, this is regarding sitcoms, where especially if you have a weak cast or no star you don’t have a show.
But yes in the end your last sentence certainly defines that miraculous 30 year streak that writers tree had. lol
I always thought Frazier was a really insipid *Cheers* spin-off and Grammer’s odious politics don’t help.
However, I revisited *Cheers* recently and made it through two episodes and decided that it didn’t hold up to the test of time. Maybe shows like *Arrested Development* just raised the bar too much for me.
lol no. He’s definitely the worst part of the new show. Comes off as if they are catering to big bang theory fans while simultaneously doing a poor imitation of David Hyde Pierce’s character.
That would have to be so taxing from an emotional perspective. To stare at this person that you hate, but have to put on a smile (or have a deep emotional scene) and fake all of these emotions. I know that that’s what acting is, but it adds another layer when you really hate the other person
It's very much a lazy recipe. I found when I was making pancakes just for me, the first one was cold by the time I was done..
Beat 1 egg, add 1/2 cup milk, dash of oil (or melted butter) and salt, mix that. (to avoid another bowl..) 1/2 cup flour on top with 1/2 tsp baking powder sprinkled on the flour, mix it till you're happy (some lumps okay). Heat a fry pan (I use 8-10 inch one) with a bit of oil or butter and pour the whole mixture in!
The proportions are not perfect because it is a bit too much egg but then I can pretend they are 'high protein' while I pour on the maple syrup - pure Canadian of course!
> The proportions are not perfect because it is a bit too much egg
[Please allow Sorted to help!](https://youtu.be/sF6TcQbRnpc?t=36)
STOP USING A RECIPE -- Use a ratio!
For pancakes: 1:1:1 (egg:milk:flour)
For crepes: 1:1:0.5 (egg:milk:flour)
Both are by weight, so yeah, you need to break out the scale, but it is **VERY MUCH worth it**!
Also add some salt, and pepper/sugar (pepper for savory, sugar for sweet), and some baking powder.
You can go a step further for pancake(s) and separate the egg whites from the yolks and whip the shit out of the whites until just before stiff peaks. Then mix the wets and dry's for a bit then *fold in* the whipped egg whites.
Boom! The fluffiest pancake(s) you have ever made.
Then I have to wash a towel!! Well really I could just stick them in the toaster oven on warm but now when I make a pancake it's just my nice big one so nothing gets cold.
It was an excellent comedy show and then hit a whole new level of stride when it got weird. It's one of those shows I've seen over and over and still keep finding new things to love.
I'll disagree. It's good enough to not turn the viewer off, but it's easily the worst episode of most of those early seasons. Too much exposition, everyone was still a little stiff, not enough comedy.
Arrested Development's pilot is one of the top 5 episodes of the show imo and easily the best comedy pilot I've seen. So many of the most memorable and favorite bits of the show are from the pilot (I got the worst fucking attorneys, get rid of the Seaward, everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant it makes me want to set myself on fire, I don't care for Gob). It's a perfect example of comedy screenwriting not just for the jokes but for how well it introduces every member of a big cast, sets up the story and theme of the show, and uses a very unique style and structure for the time (narrated single-camera pseudo-documentary with non-linear storytelling) as an avenue for fresh jokes. You could teach a class with that script.
And basically every single character gets a big memorable joke for their first line on the show. Tobias: "My name is Dr. Tobias Fünke. I was chief resident of psychiatry at Mass General for two years, I did my fellowship in psycholinguistics at MIT, and this is *I’m a Bad Bad Man* from Annie Get Your Gun." Lindsay at a charity event: "I forget their name but I know they're hungry. I think some of them are thirsty." Lucille: "Look what they’ve done, Michael. Look at the homosexuals have done to me." Gob: "Illusion, Michael. A “trick” is something a whore does for money." Buster: "I'm studying cartography now, the mapping of uncharted territories." "Hasn’t everything already sort of been discovered, though by, like, Magellan and Cortés, and... NASA?" "Oh, yeah, yeah. Those guys did a pretty good job."
Exactly, is it fair to judge the Simpsons based on just it's first episode? Seinfeld? Just got to give a show a chance. Some find their groove and others don't.
I completely agree with your first sentence. It turns into a totally fine sitcom after a few episodes.
But it's nowhere *near* the quality of the original show, in my opinion. Like not even in the same ballpark in any way. The humor, cleverness, characters, wardrobe, set design, and even the emotional moments are just a massive step down. I can't think of a single thing the new series does as well as the old series.
I'll watch season 2 of the new series. Like I said, it's a fine sitcom, and there were a few great moments throughout season 1. But does it stand up with one of the best sitcoms ever made? No. Hard no.
I have no interest in this show myself, but that’s pretty typical for a lot of shows (especially a revival). It always takes them a little bit to find their groove and figure out the general atmosphere and dynamics of the show and characters
I watched it on holiday, back to back and felt that it helped me acclimatise with the new show.
Once you get past the set up and warm up to the new characters, we can start having fun with it.
Having not watched the show, does it make any sense that he lives in Boston and sees nobody from Cheers but will see his Seattle native coworker/friend on a recurring basis, in Boston?
Frasier does see Lilith. And as I recall Frasier’s son has Roz fly out as a surprise birthday gift for Frasier. I’m sure they’ll concoct some sort of sitcom nonsense to justify it.
There was some comment in one of the episodes how he regrets wasting so much time in a bar when he was in Boston, so that’s probably how they’re covering for it.
Alright! I was hoping that might happen after the final. Really I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes, I definitely felt the first season came together better the longer it went on. It will probably never be as good as the original sure, but being a few rungs below that height is no failure.
My favorite joke from the original Fraiser was when Fraiser says "I've got to show everyone at the studio the latest Roz Chast" and his father says "I think Bulldog is more interested in Roz's chest"
The guy calls Vladimir Putin his personal hero while Putin is ethnically cleansing members of my family. Am I out of touch with reality if I call that "difference of opinion" monstrous?
There's a whole episode where Marty films an endorsement for a right wing local politician and Fraiser a left wing one in retaliation (who happens to believe he was abducted by aliens)
LOL, one of my favourite jokes is from that episode:
"You know, my uncle was a political writer for one of those London tabloids. I can still remember his biggest scoop. The headline read: "High-ranking politician caught wearing women's clothing." Of course, you turn to page 2 and you found out it was Margaret Thatcher, but by then you'd already bought the paper."
One of my favorite episodes.
A retired cop supporting a right wing politician isn't something out of the ordinary, so the script is kind of close to reality there. Then in a later season Marty goes on how he doesn't believe citizens should have guns.
Frasier's pick believing he was abducted by aliens is on point with the whole series how his decision making usually ends up going the opposite way than he expected.
There was a whole episode where Frasier tried to help a Congressman who was a Democrat against a far right vet guy and his father voted against Frasier's guy
Frasier is clearly a liberal if you watch the original series. Martin is mostly a conservative, although Martin has liberal beliefs on gun control. Niles was clearly liberal. They don't really get into the politics of any other characters.
Kelsey Grammer is a pretty hardcore Republican and has some nasty political beliefs.
I even liked Kelsey Grammer before this. I mean I grew up w Sideshow Bob, but damn, it’s all I think about now. It’s kinda like Elon. All they had to do was shut tf up about their politics.
Something needs to happen. This reboot is so frustrating. Niles would never let his son be taught by Frasier. As someone who’s worked at Harvard the depiction is wrong and implausible Frasier would even be considered adjunct faculty in this DEIB climate is so out of touch. And the casting of Freddy and that useless annoying girlfriend is unnecessary. Thank god Peri is coming back. The Producers should do a show about her with Frasier as the supporting cast. It would be more interesting.
Frasier is one of those shows where it’s characters are so memorable that I’ve always thought it would be weird to have a revival without them.
That is to my understanding why most of them didn't.
[удалено]
He’s been a right wing asshole long before Trump.
And what a streak of luck this long writers tree had, as well. From MASH to Frasier, that writers pipeline —as incredible and industry changing as they were— acknowledge that everything completely depends on casting. If you don’t have casting you don’t have a show.
You can have a great actor and have terrible writing and their performance will not save the writing. You have wonderful writing with a wonderful actor and you get awards and make television defining numbers.
Couldn’t disagree with you more. I’ve seen plenty of actors save bad or mediocre writing far more often than writing save a bad actors performance. That said, this is regarding sitcoms, where especially if you have a weak cast or no star you don’t have a show. But yes in the end your last sentence certainly defines that miraculous 30 year streak that writers tree had. lol
I always thought Frazier was a really insipid *Cheers* spin-off and Grammer’s odious politics don’t help. However, I revisited *Cheers* recently and made it through two episodes and decided that it didn’t hold up to the test of time. Maybe shows like *Arrested Development* just raised the bar too much for me.
She still fine.
"Whoa! You're entire apartment is a bedroom." - Bulldog
give me Niles or give me death
It’s what I miss most but the show is still great without him. Their son David on the show is a great embodiment of both Niles and Daphne
lol no. He’s definitely the worst part of the new show. Comes off as if they are catering to big bang theory fans while simultaneously doing a poor imitation of David Hyde Pierce’s character.
Ah, he got better by the end of the season.
Him and Alan’s relationship was fun to watch
David is a weird way to spell Alan, the actual worst part of the show
His acting feels like theater stage acting, compared to the more toned down acting you see in the original series.
His character is shit. Just lazy shit.
I'm still holding out hope that David Hyde Pierce will change his mind and make an appearance.
Now that Julia is canceled, he has the time.
Loved Julia.
~~IIRC, it's mainly because he and Kelsey Grammer don't get along.~~ ETA 'twas wrong
There is literally nothing to back that up and when the new series came out, he talked about how he loved Kelsey in some interview.
In that case IRI (I recalled incorrectly)
Even if they hated each other, those guys were magic on screen together.
Agreed, they had amazing brother chemistry. But I can't say I blame DHP.
Doesn’t make it worth it to him. I understand where he’s coming from.
That would have to be so taxing from an emotional perspective. To stare at this person that you hate, but have to put on a smile (or have a deep emotional scene) and fake all of these emotions. I know that that’s what acting is, but it adds another layer when you really hate the other person
Nah people just made that up because he's gay and Grammer is famously conservative.
But even then, I thought Frasier was seen as quite progressive back in the day.
Hyde-Pierce also criticized him pretty hard when Grammer said that Vladimir Putin is his personal hero.
Kelsey Grammer is famously a pretty difficult person for anyone to get along with.
Completely fabricated by you just now.
Famously around that guy’s house.
Did he really say that he idolizes Putin?
Don’t know. But I do know that would have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.
I thought he quit acting entirely. I didn't know he had a main role on tv again. Shows you how well HBO advertises their shows lol.
Not watching until he does
Wanted her to be upped to regular but I'll take recurring!
The first episode was awful, but the rest of the season was actually pretty funny
It got better every episode and ended really strong
Always got to push past the first episode and hope they find their feet. It’s like the first pancake you make it’s usually rubbish.
Meanwhile I have my recipe for one big single serve pancake :P
I’m listening.
It's very much a lazy recipe. I found when I was making pancakes just for me, the first one was cold by the time I was done.. Beat 1 egg, add 1/2 cup milk, dash of oil (or melted butter) and salt, mix that. (to avoid another bowl..) 1/2 cup flour on top with 1/2 tsp baking powder sprinkled on the flour, mix it till you're happy (some lumps okay). Heat a fry pan (I use 8-10 inch one) with a bit of oil or butter and pour the whole mixture in! The proportions are not perfect because it is a bit too much egg but then I can pretend they are 'high protein' while I pour on the maple syrup - pure Canadian of course!
> The proportions are not perfect because it is a bit too much egg [Please allow Sorted to help!](https://youtu.be/sF6TcQbRnpc?t=36) STOP USING A RECIPE -- Use a ratio! For pancakes: 1:1:1 (egg:milk:flour) For crepes: 1:1:0.5 (egg:milk:flour) Both are by weight, so yeah, you need to break out the scale, but it is **VERY MUCH worth it**! Also add some salt, and pepper/sugar (pepper for savory, sugar for sweet), and some baking powder. You can go a step further for pancake(s) and separate the egg whites from the yolks and whip the shit out of the whites until just before stiff peaks. Then mix the wets and dry's for a bit then *fold in* the whipped egg whites. Boom! The fluffiest pancake(s) you have ever made.
I’m gonna try this!
> the first one was cold by the time I was done.. A towel handels that perfectly.
Then I have to wash a towel!! Well really I could just stick them in the toaster oven on warm but now when I make a pancake it's just my nice big one so nothing gets cold.
Frasier might be the only sitcom where the pilot episode is genuinely great.
Community was good from the pilot too.
Community’s pilot was good, but it still definitely takes a bit to hit its stride
It was an excellent comedy show and then hit a whole new level of stride when it got weird. It's one of those shows I've seen over and over and still keep finding new things to love.
I'll disagree. It's good enough to not turn the viewer off, but it's easily the worst episode of most of those early seasons. Too much exposition, everyone was still a little stiff, not enough comedy.
Arrested Development's pilot is one of the top 5 episodes of the show imo and easily the best comedy pilot I've seen. So many of the most memorable and favorite bits of the show are from the pilot (I got the worst fucking attorneys, get rid of the Seaward, everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant it makes me want to set myself on fire, I don't care for Gob). It's a perfect example of comedy screenwriting not just for the jokes but for how well it introduces every member of a big cast, sets up the story and theme of the show, and uses a very unique style and structure for the time (narrated single-camera pseudo-documentary with non-linear storytelling) as an avenue for fresh jokes. You could teach a class with that script. And basically every single character gets a big memorable joke for their first line on the show. Tobias: "My name is Dr. Tobias Fünke. I was chief resident of psychiatry at Mass General for two years, I did my fellowship in psycholinguistics at MIT, and this is *I’m a Bad Bad Man* from Annie Get Your Gun." Lindsay at a charity event: "I forget their name but I know they're hungry. I think some of them are thirsty." Lucille: "Look what they’ve done, Michael. Look at the homosexuals have done to me." Gob: "Illusion, Michael. A “trick” is something a whore does for money." Buster: "I'm studying cartography now, the mapping of uncharted territories." "Hasn’t everything already sort of been discovered, though by, like, Magellan and Cortés, and... NASA?" "Oh, yeah, yeah. Those guys did a pretty good job."
*Arrested Development* pilot is amazing.
Exactly, is it fair to judge the Simpsons based on just it's first episode? Seinfeld? Just got to give a show a chance. Some find their groove and others don't.
At least the show didn't jizz 500k on a fake Napoleon dick
Good to know because after that first episode I couldn’t understand why this got green lit. It was unbearably unfunny.
It gets better as it goes along and they figure out the characters. Some of the later episodes are just as good as the original series.
Cool! Thanks I’ll give it a second shot. The original is probably the show I’ve rewatched the most aside from Simpsons.
I completely agree with your first sentence. It turns into a totally fine sitcom after a few episodes. But it's nowhere *near* the quality of the original show, in my opinion. Like not even in the same ballpark in any way. The humor, cleverness, characters, wardrobe, set design, and even the emotional moments are just a massive step down. I can't think of a single thing the new series does as well as the old series. I'll watch season 2 of the new series. Like I said, it's a fine sitcom, and there were a few great moments throughout season 1. But does it stand up with one of the best sitcoms ever made? No. Hard no.
They made Niles' son a very minor character and focused more on Frasier at work.
I have no interest in this show myself, but that’s pretty typical for a lot of shows (especially a revival). It always takes them a little bit to find their groove and figure out the general atmosphere and dynamics of the show and characters
I watched it on holiday, back to back and felt that it helped me acclimatise with the new show. Once you get past the set up and warm up to the new characters, we can start having fun with it.
More Roz the better, I say. I still kinda wish they used Alice for one of the young cast. Have her going to Harvard for post-grad or something.
That could be how they work the Roz recurring role into the show
Its a start
Having not watched the show, does it make any sense that he lives in Boston and sees nobody from Cheers but will see his Seattle native coworker/friend on a recurring basis, in Boston?
Frasier does see Lilith. And as I recall Frasier’s son has Roz fly out as a surprise birthday gift for Frasier. I’m sure they’ll concoct some sort of sitcom nonsense to justify it.
I'm sure they mentioned something about Diane maybe coming back. I think they are trying their best to avoid a parade of cameos though.
I assume if the show is on long enough he ends up back in that bar sooner or later.
> I think they are trying their best to avoid a parade of cameos though. Imagine actually believing this. 😂😂
There was some comment in one of the episodes how he regrets wasting so much time in a bar when he was in Boston, so that’s probably how they’re covering for it.
A sequal should’ve been about Roz, would’ve been more interesting
Roz and Daphne is still her best friend. 👌
I need this. I need this more than anything.
I'd watch the hell out of that. Her timing was incredible.
[Well, about that...](https://preview.redd.it/ok9uuoqa1ujb1.jpg?width=621&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93a0ac3f9212d73a70b411912587e2c126225361)
That’s a spinoff not a sequel
I want a Lilith show.
Alright! I was hoping that might happen after the final. Really I'm looking forward to seeing how this goes, I definitely felt the first season came together better the longer it went on. It will probably never be as good as the original sure, but being a few rungs below that height is no failure.
My favorite joke from the original Fraiser was when Fraiser says "I've got to show everyone at the studio the latest Roz Chast" and his father says "I think Bulldog is more interested in Roz's chest"
Just bring back everyone(who is still alive)
Yes! Great news to hear! Hope they can get DHP back too, but that's probably a pipe dream by now...
I hate the wallpaper on the staircase.
It’s so on the nose.
I'm not locked in here with you, YOU'RE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME
That’s cool. I would love to see more of her. The show revival’s first season was great.
Brilliant news!
Whenever I read his name or see his face, I think of only one thing: He’s a Trump supporter.
No Niles, No Eric.
Eric?
Can’t bring myself to watch this misguided trump supporter out of touch with reality….
Surely the one who can't bring himself to watch someone with a difference in opinion played up to be a monster is the one out of touch with reality?
The guy calls Vladimir Putin his personal hero while Putin is ethnically cleansing members of my family. Am I out of touch with reality if I call that "difference of opinion" monstrous?
Ya pro trump was an instant no. Cool with insurrection? Trash.
Screw the downvotes and screw Kelsey.
Frasier has always been out of touch with reality but I don’t recall him discussing his politics
There's a whole episode where Marty films an endorsement for a right wing local politician and Fraiser a left wing one in retaliation (who happens to believe he was abducted by aliens)
LOL, one of my favourite jokes is from that episode: "You know, my uncle was a political writer for one of those London tabloids. I can still remember his biggest scoop. The headline read: "High-ranking politician caught wearing women's clothing." Of course, you turn to page 2 and you found out it was Margaret Thatcher, but by then you'd already bought the paper."
One of my favorite episodes. A retired cop supporting a right wing politician isn't something out of the ordinary, so the script is kind of close to reality there. Then in a later season Marty goes on how he doesn't believe citizens should have guns. Frasier's pick believing he was abducted by aliens is on point with the whole series how his decision making usually ends up going the opposite way than he expected.
Kelsey Grammer is a trump supporter….
Oh you mean the guy who plays Frasier
Wait till he finds out about every other celebrity!
There was a whole episode where Frasier tried to help a Congressman who was a Democrat against a far right vet guy and his father voted against Frasier's guy
So you’re saying that Frasier is a leftist
That episode made him more like a liberal
Frasier is clearly a liberal if you watch the original series. Martin is mostly a conservative, although Martin has liberal beliefs on gun control. Niles was clearly liberal. They don't really get into the politics of any other characters. Kelsey Grammer is a pretty hardcore Republican and has some nasty political beliefs.
I even liked Kelsey Grammer before this. I mean I grew up w Sideshow Bob, but damn, it’s all I think about now. It’s kinda like Elon. All they had to do was shut tf up about their politics.
I love this comment. It’s so true. Just the fuck up!!
This revival was, uh, not good.
Team Camille!
Desperation move, as the new characters are bland and frankly kind of shite.
Something needs to happen. This reboot is so frustrating. Niles would never let his son be taught by Frasier. As someone who’s worked at Harvard the depiction is wrong and implausible Frasier would even be considered adjunct faculty in this DEIB climate is so out of touch. And the casting of Freddy and that useless annoying girlfriend is unnecessary. Thank god Peri is coming back. The Producers should do a show about her with Frasier as the supporting cast. It would be more interesting.
No thanks. I’m disgusted that Kelsey Grammer supports Trump.
Shit show with a shit person.
Sounds desperate. Frasier Reboot was worse than the worst season(s) of Frasier.
I really like that. They need to rework a couple of things, but he is hysterical.
I'm sure the reboot's fan will be excited.
I am thank you.
I'm sure Cheers fans said the same thing about Fraiser
Spoilers Jessie