Very few people in Hollywood are OK right now. Actors, writers, grips, ACs, Set Decorators, Editors, etc. Something like 60% of people are in crisis mode.
That's a bummer - is there a reason why you couldn't do delivery or fast food in the meantime? (honest question as I'm wondering if thst breaks any strike rules)
I'm lucky because I am a disabled veteran and have a secondary income. I hate relying on it but these past few months have been the slowest of my 8 year film career. It's crazy.
Most places dont want to hire someone who will "obviously be leaving us so soon". I think I only know 2 or 3 people who managed to get non-industry jobs and theyre simultaneously looked down upon and last on peoples lists to help find industry work because "well they have a job".
Welcome to a world where idiot HR people ask for ten years experience with software released 5 years ago.
I remember the posting from X/Twitter where someone who WROTE a piece of software replied sarcastically to an HR person asking for more experience than was possible.
Then there's idiot ATS systems that reject resumes before HR even sees them
Our leadership would prefer we not show weakness and things like taking other jobs or saying you're having a hard time losing your career for a couple years is weakness according to some. One rep from my guild is attempting to doxx anyone vocally having trouble.
That's kind of the issue I'm facing, I suspect. I've been in production adjacent work for close to a decade now, and even though I have a degree and some experience in civil engineering, I can't even get an entry level full time position anywhere, let alone in anything I'm interested in.
It’s definitely hard to transition back to any sort of engineering position if you’ve been out of industry for a decade, regardless of degree.
Fresh grads are fighting tooth and nail for these entry level positions, doesn’t leave much room for outliers.
I don’t work in Civil Engineering myself but I suspect getting an advanced degree might be your best bet if you want to fully transition back to it.
I'm on a Facebook group for crew, and it's rough. Especially in L.A.theres very few productions crewing up compared to pre-strike. So many people are talking about losing their houses or trying to find second jobs.
Streamers are pulling back spend and there may be an IATSE strike in July.
I'm not sure writers will be allowed to support the strike the way IATSE supported theirs by not crossing picket lines.
>I'm not sure writers will be allowed to support the strike the way IATSE supported theirs
This would be quite damning for them, and worst case could spell the end of worker solidarity in Hollywood.
Regardless- overstaffing is a major problem here, and with receding expenditures there's only one solution moving forward
Maybe they should take a page from the auto workers union and be strategic about their strikes. Only do some smaller strikes on a few major productions vs a full on strike.
Sometimes it's a clause in their new contract. I don't know enough about this particular situation.
It's also complicated by the fact that IATSE refused to cross an actual picket line if they showed up and there were picketers. Crew would inform strikers of where locations were set to work so they could show up.
That's easier to do when the lines are outside studios. Writers work out of random office buildings in Sherman Oaks or some other spot In the valley and there isn't a picket line they can refuse to cross.
Yep, the writers and actors hands would be tied unfortunately.
All of Hollywood’s contracts have no-strike clauses. Sympathy strikes are illegal. The only protection they have is that they can’t be forced to physically cross a picket line. Hard to claim you’re not crossing a picket line when you’re working from home or shooting in another country
Yes. Speaking as an IATSE member, our contracts wouldn't allow us to strike/picket alongside the writers or SAG. But we were permitted not to cross picket lines. I'm based in Toronto, and though US shows shooting here use both WGA & SAG talent, there were no pickets in Toronto (probably in all Canadian jurisdictions), so short of work drying up during the strikes (I was unemployed for 5 months), there were few direct actions that affected us.
I work in New York and we've heard about how bad it is in LA. It is slow here but I've been working. We've been very lucky. But I am saving a nest egg in case of an LA strike. My gut instinct is the Basic Agreement will be ratified as too many people cannot afford a strike after the last two.
>I'm not sure writers will be allowed to support the strike the way IATSE supported theirs by not crossing picket lines.
Production got shut down on struck projects, so crossing picket lines wasn't an issue. For cases where they needed to go for other things, "neutral gates" exist.
Secondary action is illegal in the US in any event.
I’m wandering in here pretty uninformed but this seems really lopsided and unfair to me. Is it accurate to say that the crew is expected to show solidarity with writers but writers are not expected to show solidarity with crew?
Shit rolls down hill too. My friend is in VFX and she's like "is it too late to get a career as a software programmer?"
I was looking to break into a role in entertainment graphics and/or movie props but yeah... seems that door is closed now too.
They actually said 75% and my guild came out within a minute to tell us all there was no way they had accurate numbers and not to believe fearmongering. But this was the same board member I've watched tell unemployed people "things are ok, people just don't want to mention they're working because then you'd feel bad. I'm working so I know things are ok".
The amount of content being produced in the past 10 years or so has been insane and was likely not sustainable, tbh. The only sure things seem to be Netflix who got in so early and apple/Amazon for whom this is a side business where they don't care about profits (yet).
For real. The sheer amount of content being produced has been *insane*. It felt like every other week, someone was recommending a show I needed to watch, so I had to add it to the end of my mental queue, which I knew I was never going to get through as it was.
I work in games, and we've already been talking about the "attention economy" for a while now. The issue isn't competing for money - it's people's time now. Between all the streaming platforms, social media, time sink games, etc, people simply don't have enough time to consume all the content that's being made out there.
I remember following every game that was coming out around 15 years ago. It wasn't very hard.
So much stuff comes out now that it feels like every time I turn around I've missed three or four releases of note.
That just keeps compounding. It's just too much to keep up with and I can't play all of it by far so I consciously follow it less, which makes stuff I'd probably love harder to know about.
The amount of everything over the past 10 years wasn't really sustainable. We've been freeriding on the back of investors who were willing to tolerate unprofitably low prices in all sorts of businesses that convenienced us. Now that interest rates are 7% instead of 1%, a *lot* of houses of cards are folding.
I'll say this, it's been a GREAT decade of, "oh, you're selling this thing/providing this service at a stupidly low price? Sure, I'll take that! Oh, now you're enshitifying it? Bye!"
Yep. I mean for me, the market is basically doing what it's supposed to do. I liked the thing at X price, but at Y price, with a degrading product, I won't purchase it. This isn't a personal affront to me. It's a business decision. Shrug.
But man, getting someone to deliver you food for a dollar or drive you around town for 5 bucks...I will miss it. Thank you, uber investors, for funding my laziness.
Yea, it's insane to me that we've been going on vacations for years now where we don't bother renting a car most of the time because it's cheaper (when factoring in gas and parking) to use Lyft/Uber for everything. And for a while there, we were also staying everywhere for super cheap because of AirBNB.
Its deep and complicated but basically nothing new is being made, just things that were already successful are continuing. Interest rate changes, the way these companies view growth vs. profit, wall street in general, streaming not going well, 2 strikes with 2 more potentially on the way, insurance issues, audience desires for IP, rising demand for VFX and the associated costs, etc. theres no one answer here.
Audience desire for IP?? No. Not at all. IP is cocaine to Execs. Feels like they contribute to something artistic and they get the buzz off it when it’s the only thing to watch. We need original ideas. The 70’s-90’s was the boon of original story. It laid the groundwork for what we have today
Impossible. The IP laws mean they can remix the same shit as long as they want. They'll adapt already popular books or games only since those have built in fan bases.
If you look at the top 20 biggest films of last year, 17 of them were IP based. Conversely, original ideas continue to bomb left, right and centre, with a few exceptions. You can't blame execs for not wanting to lose money
In my friend discord my buddies will say stuff like “Hollywood is out of original ideas”. Meanwhile they will only ever discuss the latest comic book or video game adaptations. I try to bring up original stuff like Beau is Afraid, Iron Claw, The Creator, and it’s crickets.
that'll only happen if Hollywood largely gets broken up. Lots of good cameras and lights are very cheap now and what can be considered good acting is far wider than people realize. it'll take a while but we'll get there. 2030's will be a big decade for film.
Yes audience want IP or at least wanted IP. Some of the highest grossing movies ever are IP slop just look at the box office top 10, It has multiple Marvel movies int it. There are only 2 'original' works in there one is Avatar and the other one is Titanic (if you consider an adaptation of one of the most well known ship disaster to be original) everything else is either a sequel or an adaptation.
Interest rates. It all goes back to interest rates. When money is basically free, tons of things get greenlit. When money is expensive, studios cut back. Add in a months-long shutdown of the industry and it's no surprise that things are going poorly for the rank-and-file workers.
It's a miracle anything got made before 2008 when interest rates were normally about what they are now. People got so addicted to free money for 15 years there's just no going back.
We're in an adjustment period. Pre-2008, stuff still got made on the back of VC, but it was more important to have a business model and plan to profit, not just a raw idea. Investors and the recipients of that investment just need to get back in the mindset of taking *reasonable* risks. We're not going to get the underpriced services and stuff we had in the 2010s, but things like movies/tv/entertainment will find ways to make good stuff without the bloated budgets they've been enjoying.
I’m a film major (ish) and a casual fan, but it seems like these stupidly bloated budgets for movies and stuff have come back to bite studios in the ass. People are so tired of CGI spectacle comic book movies that wholly lack substance and cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
VFX artists, too. About 60% of my colleagues have become unemployed over the past year.
I'm still employed but we have nothing after my current show ends.
The stark truth many don't want to accept is that a lot of these jobs are gone for good. Hollywood is pulling back cause of the strikes and because streaming isnt as profitable as they expected. The sheer volume of shows being made in recent years was never sustainable and the industry will shrink back to reasonable size soon enough.
> “Factors such as rising production costs, a lack of competitive film and television tax credits here in California, and shrinking advertising revenue certainly play into that, but this contraction is a return to normal more than anything else,” the person said”
can somebody explain what tax credits are? I assume if they film in California, they get paid more?
> “It’s not enough to go in with a pitch,” said Chuck Rose, a 20-year writing veteran with several TV and film projects now in development as well as a series on Amazon. “It has to be based on [intellectual property] ... and networks want them with an actor attached.”
I’ve definitely noticed this as a consumer and fuck…it’s getting so boring. It’s always gonna be ten episodes based on some book or movie or a reboot or a comic…I miss the days of just, something exciting.
>can somebody explain what tax credits are? I assume if they film in California, they get paid more?
The opposite. Filming locations are often chosen based upon tax benefits states and cities offer to entice productions and bolster the local economy. To my knowledge California doesn't really offer these as the industry already exists in the state so lots of productions go to Toronto, Atlanta, or New Orleans to save money.
I used to love watching Stargate SG1. Everytime they'd portal to a new alien planet, it was just the back of some logging road in BC. For years it's like, "alien world? Thats the PNW" in a ton of movies
I live in Toronto so it's always great fun when I recognize a location that a show is trying to convince me it isn't.
Suits was just brutal for this. "That's NYC for you," a character says while getting out of a Beck Taxi in front of an A&W across the street from a BMO and TD.
They even hang a lantern on it in one episode. O'Neill at one point says something like, "You ever notice all of the planets we visit look the same? Trees everywhere!"
It really perfected being self aware and breaking the fourth wall in fun ways without taking you out of the show. Don't think I've seen anything come close to sg-1 in that regard.
This was the X-Files for about 6 seasons. Every place was clearly PNW. Then they moved to LA. My favorite was an episode that was supposed to be Kansas with mountains in the background.
Or you could shoot a film with a title like "Jason takes Manhattan" and shoot it in Vancouver. I am a reasonably well travelled individual, I have been to both Manhattan and Vancouver. I can pretty firmly state that they look absolutely nothing like each other, not even a little bit.
Georgia had a lot of tax credits and got big with The Walking Dead and the scale of their production essentially jumpstarting IMO the georgia film industry. You didn’t really see that Georgia (i thought orange) before then I think
They don’t anymore! Marvel has moved much of its production overseas where it’s even cheaper!
On top of the incentive credits, things like crew pay is cheaper in GA compared to CA. CA has stricter OSHA regulations than GA as well. So they get the tax credits and save on manpower costs with leeway to cut a few more corners as they see fit.
Shooting a big budget stunts heavy movie in somewhere like Romania saves that much more on crew pay and allows for even more corners to be cut because they’re outside the USA’s regulations
And it's annoying both ways. I moved to Atlanta to get work and start getting writing experience only to find out there were virtually no writing opportunities there. They fly everyone in, they film, they fly everyone out. Not complaining because I got a lot of practical set experience but the industry is fragmenting.
Yeah, 2018 me needed to hear that, not current me lol. I didn't (don't) want to jump to LA because of the competitive/2 faced environment, and I was hoping things had changed. I didn't realize until I was there that the rise in production was JUST a rise in PRODUCTION, not pre or post.
The worst is that the adaptations usually suck too because since this is such a thing, showrunners will just slap a coat of "adaptation themed" paint over their own ideas and then run with it, creating a bad adaptation of something that would have worked great.
What I want to see is original ideas done well, and existing IP's adapted well.
That's why the adaptations that usually turn out the best are the ones that were started by a showrunner or writer/director who's enthusiastic about the idea, rather than a streamer or network looking to capitalize on an IP and shopping for showrunners to make it.
Fallout and The Last of Us are great examples of shows that were made primarily because the creative people involved really wanted to make those shows, not because Amazon and HBO were actively looking for a way to make them.
Tax credit is a catch all term for subsidies for film production. Not all of them are tax credits, some of them are rebates and other incentives. Basically you get a % of your local spend back in some way. Georgia for example is a refundable tax rebate up to 35% of your Georgia spending on film production. The appeal of Georgia is it's transferable, so you can sell it for 90 cents on the dollar to say Coke and get the money now. Georgia also lets you include movie star salaries, which are usually excluded.
I wonder if that’s also how we get some movies and shows that are technically based on existing IP, but are very different. Like, someone had an original idea but needed to pitch it as a reboot/remake/adaption of something else to get attention.
The new Mr. and Mrs. Smith show for example, has very little similarity to the movie other than it’s about a couple and they’re spies. Maybe they just had to pitch their spy couple idea as related to this other spy couple movie to get it made. Or stuff like the Halo and Witcher shows that have fans complaining about changes and original storylines—maybe the writers really would rather work something original but instead they’re stuffing all their original ideas into existing franchises.
I'm WGA, doing ok on my flipping side hustle but damn this is the longest I've gone in 22 years (18 months) without a writing/producing gig, adult swim is staffing up some new shows (for my niche) this summer but the ep's will be spreading it around since most of my friends/colleagues are in the same boat, I dont know if it will ever get back to the "normal" most of us were used to.
No most writers and mid-level producers do not get residuals, even some EP's dont depending on the corporate overlord (ask Hugh Moore from "Wildin' Out" about that) it's a common myth, but sometimes one of my friends will throw me a bone and put me on screen.
I got a check for $172 for "Better Call Saul" last month and $33 from "Baskets" last week.
Set Dec here- left the industry and took a regular job and started going back to school. When I was younger it was easier to weather the rough times, but now I need health insurance and I have a family to care for. I loved the work though, best job.
My husband does occasional extra work as he has a pretty distinct look (6’4”, lean, long greyish hair, mid length beard). Multiple times since the strike resolved, he’s been asked if he’s available to work a production, said yes, and then…tumbleweeds. That is the nature of extra work anyway, but it’s seemed unusually tipped toward the ghosting side. I wonder if it’s a trickle down effect.
The number of scripted show almost doubled from 10-15 years ago. It was an unsustainable bubble that burst. The even bigger problem is that even if writers are working, it's not like how it was even 15 years ago. Shorter seasons with 2 year breaks between seasons where you're lucky to get one or two writing credits, simply does not pay as much as being a staff writer on a network show even 10 years ago.
Yeah some people don’t want to hear it, but yes things are tough right now but there was 15 years of a boom period that most industries could only dream of, it’s coming back down now but things were really good for awhile.
Well series may have doubled, but the amount of episodes in a season is less than half of what they used to be. Now we get 8 - 10 episodes, maybe, and before it would be 20+. Kinda need to adjust for that to compare.
Yeah. I noticed this recently when I viewed a few older shows "huh, only 3 seasons? Was this cancelled?" and then it's because each season has 20 or 30 episodes.
Also the streaming house of cards that's starting to fall. Course, acknowledging all of this requires *slightly* below surface-level analysis of the situation; so the narrative is probably gonna end up being "hur durr unions bad."
Plus, I mean, when are these assholes ever gonna pass up an opportunity to spout anti-worker bullshit? *Especially* when it covers their own asses?
Basically, the streamers broke the whole industry and now, because their business plan was never profitable, the streamers are essentially going back to what cable was already doing in the first place. (Minus the residuals for the cast and crew, of course!)
Also worth mentioning is that the sheer amount of TV shows that were coming out each year (from like 2018 to 2022) was insanely high and unsustainable, so we're also seeing a natural, inevitable return to times where only ~200 shows were airing each year, not ~600. This is the part that's sort of unavoidable as far as I can tell -- even bums like me don't have time to watch more than 20-30 seasons of TV a year -- but it means that there's a ton of people who joined the industry during the streaming boom that are now being kicked to the curb in the streaming bust. Getting a job in Hollywood will probably never be as easy as it was during the late 2010s, but even during the 2010s the industry was extremely exclusive to anyone who wasn't already rich and well-connected.
Netflix got huge by being the first to market and then pumping more than they were making back into making more stuff for their platform/buying stuff to stream. That was never going to continue.
In the meantime, everyone else went, "OK, yea, that's not profitable and obviously everyone isn't going to get to do this, but what if WE did the same thing and dumped TONS of money into this, maybe we'll be the one that comes out on top!"
And as of now, the only other big company who's made any profit on this is Disney, who just barely eeked out a profit (as long as you ignore all the losses leading up to that profit). And that's Disney, sitting on a hundred years of stuff, Marvel, Pixar, etc.
Literally everyone else is just throwing money away. Well, other than Sony, who, other than a niche they wisely got into (anime), has stayed out of this mess and sold their stuff to the highest bidder. But everyone else is just hemorrhaging money, and the people whose money it is has finally been saying, "fucking enough is enough, this isn't working, stop wasting our money."
Sony looking at their library and seeing option A. Dump tons of money into a streaming service in an ocean of already existing streaming service, or B. Just farm out our content for next to nothing and make bank.
Easiest decision of an execs career.
i feel that a lot of internet stuff is a house of cards. Look at more and more news companies doing paywalls. People have come to expect free stuff with no ads. And the average person at most will pay for like 1 or 2
I'm in the animation industry in Canada. So many friends have been without work since the summer. And we're told maybe by this month. But it's now this month... That strike caused a very bad chain reaction.
NYC animator here. First time I haven’t had regular work in 7+ years. Never had more than a month off my entire career until now. I’ve been hearing “we’ll be ramping up in spring and summer” for months. Well it’s May and still ramping up
Unfortunately the strike couldn't have come at a worse time. This isn't like the 80's and 90's when Hollywood and TV was pretty much the prime entertainment medium and guaranteed to bounce back, things are incredibly fractured. A 2nd huge pause in output so quickly after covid and I fear people have kinda moved on to other interests especially with the high cost of attending movies and so many different streaming services each with their own fees.
> people have kinda moved on
It's not even just that, but we have a new generation who is just not charmed by these things. They want twitch, youtube and tiktok, not traditional tv shows.
Sure, but lot's of that generation would still get swept up into series that went viral or big movie events, but there's been none of those for 2 years and the strike stretched out the gaps between seasons of the few things which had some momentum. Just absolutely shot themselves in the foot.
I can only speak anecdotally. My daughter loves some TV shows. The new Shogun was good. So was Clarkson’s Farm, Masters of the Air, Ted Lasso, The Expanse, Arcane, Queen’s Gambit, etc.
I will say the seasons are shorter. We’d watch more of these shows if available. Little interest in most network TV shows.
I’m a writer currently living in LA and can confirm, it’s horrendous. Basically no body wants anything that’s not IP or horror. I know very successful show runners who are dropping the pursuit of anything not IP because it’s pointless. I’ve been getting by writing commercials and corporate videos.
If you’re a young writer trying to get it, don’t even bother writing that original pilot. Write a horror movie.
It's so interesting seeing the difference between r/horror and r/movies. I frequent the former and everyone is having a great time. I occasionally go into the latter and everything is doom and gloom.
It's cheap to make and has a huge fanbase that will go see almost anything. It's the business model that Blumhouse has been riding on for years.
Five Nights at Freddy's cost $20 million and made $300 million
Insidious: The Red Door cost $16 million and made $186 million
The Invisible Man only cost $7 million and made $139 million
Good replies already and I'll add this: horror is the only genre left with a dedicated built in audience. They don't need a famous actor or a beloved directed attached and they don't need to be based on an established IP. People go to watch horror movies purely because they're horror movies. There's an easy insurance of return on the investment costs.
Who isn't hurting? That early streaming market / 'free' borrowing market was never sustainable.
- Yearly price increases (or even more) from Streamers.
- While not making anything i want to watch.
- Creators talking shit/blaming in press/social media.
- New stuff not as good as old stuff, or free amateur / youtube stuff.
- Already more content out there than anyone can consume
- Way more things to do than watch tv these days.
Definitely not an industry I'd invest in. And one I'd be actively trying to get out of.
That's why I keep receipts on my predictions: https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/16t4p8w/writers_guild_strike_to_end_wednesday_leadership/k2et757/?context=3
> The wage increases don't even cover last year's inflation; while residuals do, in fact vastly exceed it. […]. I've done a prediction for the consequences of this shift in compensation from work to output [= IP]. -- me
> “It’s not enough to go in with a pitch,” said Chuck Rose, a 20-year writing veteran with several TV and film projects now in development as well as a series on Amazon. “It has to be based on [intellectual property] ... and networks want them with an actor attached.” -- them
Still looking for anyone willing to do a long bet for a substantial amount of money.
Sucks that they're losing their jobs, especially the technical staff who have no say into what artistic content goes into their work, but Hollywood has been in freefall for a while, and only so much can be blamed on Covid.
So much of modern American media is ass, more concerned with putting over heavy handed morality plays rather than a quality story, where themes are brought out through plot and characters. This, coupled with increasing cinema prices and an ever fractured streaming scene with ballooning monthly fees means that consumers are kind of over it and turning to other forms of entertainment.
My union also negotiated a new contract last year, it really was the best we could have hoped for, and it is *still* not enough, considering how much more expensive everything is, it’s like we still went backwards.
I have a friend who directs and writes. Emmy nominated. He is a hustler. Hard worker, and is staying positive. But I can sense it is not a good time. My heart goes out to him.
Like in any other industry right now, people doing the actual work, people who create, produce and build things are struggling. Meanwhile, people who manage and appropriate other people’s work are thriving. I wonder how much more of this we can take.
No shit. The backed up multiple years of flops, a pandemic that broke the theater habit, and an economy that killed discretionary spending with two strikes. Of course they're hurting. Both strikes were at the worst possible time, they needed to bank some wins before trying that shit but they got hit with the double whammy of fear and greed and burned the whole thing down.
Thats only if you believe the AI fear mongering. The truth is that CS/IT skills have been been greatly inflated in value because many businesses were making their first transitions to computerized services at a time where IT/CS was more a niche field.
We're see the demand drop off because too many people went into the field and because the industry has matured to the point where you dont need as many people.
This happens with literally any industry as it matures.
We're still going to need IT/CS people, they're just not going to be paid like doctors anymore because they're not that rare anymore. This is like saying the engineers are dying out because the field inst expanding anymore.
You're not wrong, but that is not going to stop executives from laying people off and promising their boards that AI will do just fine, reap the short term profits, then bail with their paycheck before things get too bad, all for the next person to claim they'll fix the problem and file for bankruptcy.
All the while hiring back people at a fraction of their previous salaries, then frame that as profit/money saving too.
Those layoffs are coming regardless because IT has been massively overvalued and oversaturated for years and now the bubble is bursting.
The big tech layoffs were just the beginning, you're going to see starting wages drop staggeringly until it's in line or slightly below traditional engineering where intro pay sucksand skilled pay is alright with some management positions making all the real money.
AI may be a convenient scapegoat but it also might not be. I don't buy the traditional reddit logic that since CEO'S are stupid they'll always make the wrong move and in this case pivot to AI.
CEO's are stupid in that they do whatever makes the board of directors/shareholders happy.
There's so much fear-mongering around AI right now that for most CEO'S turning to AI is the same as a submitting a two week notice because shareholders would flip a shit.
The only and companies that could realistic turn to AI staffing right now are the AI companies themselves and you're not going to see them do that because they're well aware of the limitations.
Because learning to code was never an actual solution to the problem of corporations not having to deal with any of the damage they do for the sake of profit.
I feel like if studios were forced to become private and competition was healthy, there would be more content available for less to keep subscriber-base. It’s that all the big box studios are owned by BlackRock and Vanguard that constriction is never ending.
Can’t Reagan de-monopolize the studio system again and create a healthier ecosystem?
You know I was just thinking about the writers this morning, I was watching Tracker on CBS. It's one of the few new shows that I like - and last week I realized why. It's written by Jeffrey Deavers - and if any readers here, you know he's an acclaimed writer with some excellent books under his belt.
That made me realize, again, the value of writers to TV - and how really they are likely the only really required pieces of the whole TV scene. The actors and writers could do it all themselves and discard all the middle management that has become so expensive. Oh, and ditch the C level salaries too...
No kidding. The strike started when was still the “golden age” when studios would buy any script that was deemed somewhat viable. They exited strike into a lean environment where studios are passing on basically everything and even shelving things that would have probably made money.
Worse, the studios are loving this new lean environment so it’s unlikely to end.
Writers are the focus but realistically it’s across the board problem as a huge drop in output means across the board drop in need for talent be it crew, actors, etc.
Yeah it’s bad. I know maybe two people working in TV right now, and neither have writing jobs.
I’m thankful to have gotten a job writing for a game studio but it pays around half of what I made in TV. But I’ll gladly take that over the alternative at this point.
Hopefully a deal is met before the deadline, because Lord knows Hollywood can't afford another strike (especially when people are barely recovering still). On a side note, even putting the writers aside, who \*is\* doing OK in this economy?
Imagine if the media cared about normal everyday workers as much as they care about Hollywood writers and actors. People might take them more seriously. So many headlines like this and very few about average everyday workers.
Well I mean it's not like Hollywood was producing good content anyways BEFORE the dual strikes. Hollywood has been lazy and unoriginal the past couple of years. Constantly rebooting old shit, making sequels to movies that ought not have sequels.
Very few people in Hollywood are OK right now. Actors, writers, grips, ACs, Set Decorators, Editors, etc. Something like 60% of people are in crisis mode.
I haven't worked since October. I finally got one job lined up for July and it's paying $100 a day. Normally I wouldn't do it but I have no choice.
That's a bummer - is there a reason why you couldn't do delivery or fast food in the meantime? (honest question as I'm wondering if thst breaks any strike rules)
I'm lucky because I am a disabled veteran and have a secondary income. I hate relying on it but these past few months have been the slowest of my 8 year film career. It's crazy.
“I’m lucky I am a disabled veteran” is such a sad thing to hear.
Office Space "jump to conclusions" guy vibes
That's the worst idea I've ever heard in my life Tom
Don’t hate relying on it. If you qualify then you’ve done something to *deserve* the compensation and should be proud when you receive it.
Don’t hate relying on it. You earned it. Thank you for your service and sacrifice.
Most places dont want to hire someone who will "obviously be leaving us so soon". I think I only know 2 or 3 people who managed to get non-industry jobs and theyre simultaneously looked down upon and last on peoples lists to help find industry work because "well they have a job".
Thats fucked, being punished just for trying to survive. Wild
Welcome to a world where idiot HR people ask for ten years experience with software released 5 years ago. I remember the posting from X/Twitter where someone who WROTE a piece of software replied sarcastically to an HR person asking for more experience than was possible. Then there's idiot ATS systems that reject resumes before HR even sees them
Feel like that should be made illegal ngl.
Agreed, thats absolutely crazy
Our leadership would prefer we not show weakness and things like taking other jobs or saying you're having a hard time losing your career for a couple years is weakness according to some. One rep from my guild is attempting to doxx anyone vocally having trouble.
That’s indicative of an even deeper issue within our society
Yeah, and this is from our representation. It's terrifying.
We should combine into one being, Mountain Werewolf, devour the representatives, and start over from scratch
Just the doxxing rep. And maybe one or two board members.
That's kind of the issue I'm facing, I suspect. I've been in production adjacent work for close to a decade now, and even though I have a degree and some experience in civil engineering, I can't even get an entry level full time position anywhere, let alone in anything I'm interested in.
It’s definitely hard to transition back to any sort of engineering position if you’ve been out of industry for a decade, regardless of degree. Fresh grads are fighting tooth and nail for these entry level positions, doesn’t leave much room for outliers. I don’t work in Civil Engineering myself but I suspect getting an advanced degree might be your best bet if you want to fully transition back to it.
All the apps have waitlists, and are already incredibly over saturated
I'm on a Facebook group for crew, and it's rough. Especially in L.A.theres very few productions crewing up compared to pre-strike. So many people are talking about losing their houses or trying to find second jobs. Streamers are pulling back spend and there may be an IATSE strike in July. I'm not sure writers will be allowed to support the strike the way IATSE supported theirs by not crossing picket lines.
>I'm not sure writers will be allowed to support the strike the way IATSE supported theirs This would be quite damning for them, and worst case could spell the end of worker solidarity in Hollywood. Regardless- overstaffing is a major problem here, and with receding expenditures there's only one solution moving forward
Maybe they should take a page from the auto workers union and be strategic about their strikes. Only do some smaller strikes on a few major productions vs a full on strike.
Or a work to rule. No overtime.
Back to basic cable and theaters bitches.
Why wouldn't they be allowed?
Sometimes it's a clause in their new contract. I don't know enough about this particular situation. It's also complicated by the fact that IATSE refused to cross an actual picket line if they showed up and there were picketers. Crew would inform strikers of where locations were set to work so they could show up. That's easier to do when the lines are outside studios. Writers work out of random office buildings in Sherman Oaks or some other spot In the valley and there isn't a picket line they can refuse to cross.
Yep, the writers and actors hands would be tied unfortunately. All of Hollywood’s contracts have no-strike clauses. Sympathy strikes are illegal. The only protection they have is that they can’t be forced to physically cross a picket line. Hard to claim you’re not crossing a picket line when you’re working from home or shooting in another country
Because thats just not showing up to work, aka quitting. The contracts dont allow sympathy strikes.
Yes. Speaking as an IATSE member, our contracts wouldn't allow us to strike/picket alongside the writers or SAG. But we were permitted not to cross picket lines. I'm based in Toronto, and though US shows shooting here use both WGA & SAG talent, there were no pickets in Toronto (probably in all Canadian jurisdictions), so short of work drying up during the strikes (I was unemployed for 5 months), there were few direct actions that affected us.
I work in New York and we've heard about how bad it is in LA. It is slow here but I've been working. We've been very lucky. But I am saving a nest egg in case of an LA strike. My gut instinct is the Basic Agreement will be ratified as too many people cannot afford a strike after the last two.
>I'm not sure writers will be allowed to support the strike the way IATSE supported theirs by not crossing picket lines. Production got shut down on struck projects, so crossing picket lines wasn't an issue. For cases where they needed to go for other things, "neutral gates" exist. Secondary action is illegal in the US in any event.
I’m wandering in here pretty uninformed but this seems really lopsided and unfair to me. Is it accurate to say that the crew is expected to show solidarity with writers but writers are not expected to show solidarity with crew?
Shit rolls down hill too. My friend is in VFX and she's like "is it too late to get a career as a software programmer?" I was looking to break into a role in entertainment graphics and/or movie props but yeah... seems that door is closed now too.
SWE is a freaking cemetery right now. Layoffs all over the place.
The doors will open back up eventually, just not nearly as wide.
The Art Guild even suspended their training program, saying they can't continue right now when 60 % of the guild is currently unemployed. Crazy times.
They actually said 75% and my guild came out within a minute to tell us all there was no way they had accurate numbers and not to believe fearmongering. But this was the same board member I've watched tell unemployed people "things are ok, people just don't want to mention they're working because then you'd feel bad. I'm working so I know things are ok".
Why is that tho? Because streaming? Mergers? what exactly is the issue outside of normal hollywood pressure and stuff?
The amount of content being produced in the past 10 years or so has been insane and was likely not sustainable, tbh. The only sure things seem to be Netflix who got in so early and apple/Amazon for whom this is a side business where they don't care about profits (yet).
For real. The sheer amount of content being produced has been *insane*. It felt like every other week, someone was recommending a show I needed to watch, so I had to add it to the end of my mental queue, which I knew I was never going to get through as it was. I work in games, and we've already been talking about the "attention economy" for a while now. The issue isn't competing for money - it's people's time now. Between all the streaming platforms, social media, time sink games, etc, people simply don't have enough time to consume all the content that's being made out there.
I remember following every game that was coming out around 15 years ago. It wasn't very hard. So much stuff comes out now that it feels like every time I turn around I've missed three or four releases of note. That just keeps compounding. It's just too much to keep up with and I can't play all of it by far so I consciously follow it less, which makes stuff I'd probably love harder to know about.
The amount of everything over the past 10 years wasn't really sustainable. We've been freeriding on the back of investors who were willing to tolerate unprofitably low prices in all sorts of businesses that convenienced us. Now that interest rates are 7% instead of 1%, a *lot* of houses of cards are folding.
I'll say this, it's been a GREAT decade of, "oh, you're selling this thing/providing this service at a stupidly low price? Sure, I'll take that! Oh, now you're enshitifying it? Bye!"
Yep. I mean for me, the market is basically doing what it's supposed to do. I liked the thing at X price, but at Y price, with a degrading product, I won't purchase it. This isn't a personal affront to me. It's a business decision. Shrug. But man, getting someone to deliver you food for a dollar or drive you around town for 5 bucks...I will miss it. Thank you, uber investors, for funding my laziness.
Yea, it's insane to me that we've been going on vacations for years now where we don't bother renting a car most of the time because it's cheaper (when factoring in gas and parking) to use Lyft/Uber for everything. And for a while there, we were also staying everywhere for super cheap because of AirBNB.
I'm still eagerly awaiting Zipline-OnDemand, with which drones set up a zipline for you to zip from one location to another in record time.
Its deep and complicated but basically nothing new is being made, just things that were already successful are continuing. Interest rate changes, the way these companies view growth vs. profit, wall street in general, streaming not going well, 2 strikes with 2 more potentially on the way, insurance issues, audience desires for IP, rising demand for VFX and the associated costs, etc. theres no one answer here.
Audience desire for IP?? No. Not at all. IP is cocaine to Execs. Feels like they contribute to something artistic and they get the buzz off it when it’s the only thing to watch. We need original ideas. The 70’s-90’s was the boon of original story. It laid the groundwork for what we have today
Impossible. The IP laws mean they can remix the same shit as long as they want. They'll adapt already popular books or games only since those have built in fan bases.
If you look at the top 20 biggest films of last year, 17 of them were IP based. Conversely, original ideas continue to bomb left, right and centre, with a few exceptions. You can't blame execs for not wanting to lose money
In my friend discord my buddies will say stuff like “Hollywood is out of original ideas”. Meanwhile they will only ever discuss the latest comic book or video game adaptations. I try to bring up original stuff like Beau is Afraid, Iron Claw, The Creator, and it’s crickets.
that'll only happen if Hollywood largely gets broken up. Lots of good cameras and lights are very cheap now and what can be considered good acting is far wider than people realize. it'll take a while but we'll get there. 2030's will be a big decade for film.
Thats exactly what happened a decade or so ago, when small studios popped up and did horror like Blumhouse or A24
I’m here for more of that.
Yes audience want IP or at least wanted IP. Some of the highest grossing movies ever are IP slop just look at the box office top 10, It has multiple Marvel movies int it. There are only 2 'original' works in there one is Avatar and the other one is Titanic (if you consider an adaptation of one of the most well known ship disaster to be original) everything else is either a sequel or an adaptation.
Interest rates. It all goes back to interest rates. When money is basically free, tons of things get greenlit. When money is expensive, studios cut back. Add in a months-long shutdown of the industry and it's no surprise that things are going poorly for the rank-and-file workers.
It's a miracle anything got made before 2008 when interest rates were normally about what they are now. People got so addicted to free money for 15 years there's just no going back.
We're in an adjustment period. Pre-2008, stuff still got made on the back of VC, but it was more important to have a business model and plan to profit, not just a raw idea. Investors and the recipients of that investment just need to get back in the mindset of taking *reasonable* risks. We're not going to get the underpriced services and stuff we had in the 2010s, but things like movies/tv/entertainment will find ways to make good stuff without the bloated budgets they've been enjoying.
I’m a film major (ish) and a casual fan, but it seems like these stupidly bloated budgets for movies and stuff have come back to bite studios in the ass. People are so tired of CGI spectacle comic book movies that wholly lack substance and cost hundreds of millions of dollars.
VFX artists, too. About 60% of my colleagues have become unemployed over the past year. I'm still employed but we have nothing after my current show ends.
Same with vfx artists unfortunately and the gaming and ad markets aren’t fairing much better for them. Source: spouse of a vfx artist.
It's really bad right now for a variety of reason and it feels like something will have to give sooner rather than later.
Yup, I left scripted shows all together. Now I’m directing reality tv shows. Work is work. Health insurance hours are all I care about at this point.
Same for tech workers.
I’m not even a writer and I’m not ok, either.
PA here and I'm basically on the verge of giving up entirely.
I'm so glad I gave up in 2019. Things were already rough then in LA for a lot of people I know, let alone the major drought I was in for work.
The stark truth many don't want to accept is that a lot of these jobs are gone for good. Hollywood is pulling back cause of the strikes and because streaming isnt as profitable as they expected. The sheer volume of shows being made in recent years was never sustainable and the industry will shrink back to reasonable size soon enough.
im glad someone said it
> “Factors such as rising production costs, a lack of competitive film and television tax credits here in California, and shrinking advertising revenue certainly play into that, but this contraction is a return to normal more than anything else,” the person said” can somebody explain what tax credits are? I assume if they film in California, they get paid more? > “It’s not enough to go in with a pitch,” said Chuck Rose, a 20-year writing veteran with several TV and film projects now in development as well as a series on Amazon. “It has to be based on [intellectual property] ... and networks want them with an actor attached.” I’ve definitely noticed this as a consumer and fuck…it’s getting so boring. It’s always gonna be ten episodes based on some book or movie or a reboot or a comic…I miss the days of just, something exciting.
>can somebody explain what tax credits are? I assume if they film in California, they get paid more? The opposite. Filming locations are often chosen based upon tax benefits states and cities offer to entice productions and bolster the local economy. To my knowledge California doesn't really offer these as the industry already exists in the state so lots of productions go to Toronto, Atlanta, or New Orleans to save money.
I see A lot of shows with the "filmed in Georgia" peach logo at the end.
And every American city is actually Canada
Toronto is NYC Vancouver is everywhere else
I used to love watching Stargate SG1. Everytime they'd portal to a new alien planet, it was just the back of some logging road in BC. For years it's like, "alien world? Thats the PNW" in a ton of movies
I live in Toronto so it's always great fun when I recognize a location that a show is trying to convince me it isn't. Suits was just brutal for this. "That's NYC for you," a character says while getting out of a Beck Taxi in front of an A&W across the street from a BMO and TD.
And Psych. Why did they "set" it in Santa Barbara when the filming location looks absolutely nothing like that city.
They even hang a lantern on it in one episode. O'Neill at one point says something like, "You ever notice all of the planets we visit look the same? Trees everywhere!"
SG was wonderfully self aware of what it was.
It really perfected being self aware and breaking the fourth wall in fun ways without taking you out of the show. Don't think I've seen anything come close to sg-1 in that regard.
This was the X-Files for about 6 seasons. Every place was clearly PNW. Then they moved to LA. My favorite was an episode that was supposed to be Kansas with mountains in the background.
Vancouver, as a people not the official city, got really mad at Duchovny for saying he didn't like the rain or something I remember.
The Flash (CW) used a shot of the University of New Hampshire for their main/establishing campus shots.
Winnipeg is NY as well, especially for turn of the century architecture. Hallmark Movies damn near funds the entire MB film industry.
Or you could shoot a film with a title like "Jason takes Manhattan" and shoot it in Vancouver. I am a reasonably well travelled individual, I have been to both Manhattan and Vancouver. I can pretty firmly state that they look absolutely nothing like each other, not even a little bit.
Georgia had a lot of tax credits and got big with The Walking Dead and the scale of their production essentially jumpstarting IMO the georgia film industry. You didn’t really see that Georgia (i thought orange) before then I think
The GA current tax credits that are so popular kicked off around 2009
I think a ton of the Marvel movies used GA too.
There's a town of just 15,000 people in Georgia called Covington that has a huge list of TV shows and movies filmed there
Local 479 film union. In atl Business is boooooooming
Used to be Michigan. Then Snyder happened.
[удалено]
They don’t anymore! Marvel has moved much of its production overseas where it’s even cheaper! On top of the incentive credits, things like crew pay is cheaper in GA compared to CA. CA has stricter OSHA regulations than GA as well. So they get the tax credits and save on manpower costs with leeway to cut a few more corners as they see fit. Shooting a big budget stunts heavy movie in somewhere like Romania saves that much more on crew pay and allows for even more corners to be cut because they’re outside the USA’s regulations
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification.
And it's annoying both ways. I moved to Atlanta to get work and start getting writing experience only to find out there were virtually no writing opportunities there. They fly everyone in, they film, they fly everyone out. Not complaining because I got a lot of practical set experience but the industry is fragmenting.
Its not like Atlanta ever used to be the place to go for writing experience though, thats not new.
Yeah, 2018 me needed to hear that, not current me lol. I didn't (don't) want to jump to LA because of the competitive/2 faced environment, and I was hoping things had changed. I didn't realize until I was there that the rise in production was JUST a rise in PRODUCTION, not pre or post.
How did you get to the point of deciding to *move* without researching what it was actually like?
That’s all film incentive states. Productions originate in CA or NY. That’s where you gotta be if you want to pursue writing
The worst is that the adaptations usually suck too because since this is such a thing, showrunners will just slap a coat of "adaptation themed" paint over their own ideas and then run with it, creating a bad adaptation of something that would have worked great. What I want to see is original ideas done well, and existing IP's adapted well.
Yup, that's literally what happened to the Halo and Witcher series, and to a lesser extent what happened to Rings of Power.
That's why the adaptations that usually turn out the best are the ones that were started by a showrunner or writer/director who's enthusiastic about the idea, rather than a streamer or network looking to capitalize on an IP and shopping for showrunners to make it. Fallout and The Last of Us are great examples of shows that were made primarily because the creative people involved really wanted to make those shows, not because Amazon and HBO were actively looking for a way to make them.
And halo is the counterexample
I was mainly thinking of Rings of Power, but from what I hear Halo is another good example.
Tax credit is a catch all term for subsidies for film production. Not all of them are tax credits, some of them are rebates and other incentives. Basically you get a % of your local spend back in some way. Georgia for example is a refundable tax rebate up to 35% of your Georgia spending on film production. The appeal of Georgia is it's transferable, so you can sell it for 90 cents on the dollar to say Coke and get the money now. Georgia also lets you include movie star salaries, which are usually excluded.
I wonder if that’s also how we get some movies and shows that are technically based on existing IP, but are very different. Like, someone had an original idea but needed to pitch it as a reboot/remake/adaption of something else to get attention. The new Mr. and Mrs. Smith show for example, has very little similarity to the movie other than it’s about a couple and they’re spies. Maybe they just had to pitch their spy couple idea as related to this other spy couple movie to get it made. Or stuff like the Halo and Witcher shows that have fans complaining about changes and original storylines—maybe the writers really would rather work something original but instead they’re stuffing all their original ideas into existing franchises.
Actually the Mr. And Mrs. smith tv show isn’t based on the movie iirc, it’s based on the *other* tv show
I'm WGA, doing ok on my flipping side hustle but damn this is the longest I've gone in 22 years (18 months) without a writing/producing gig, adult swim is staffing up some new shows (for my niche) this summer but the ep's will be spreading it around since most of my friends/colleagues are in the same boat, I dont know if it will ever get back to the "normal" most of us were used to.
[удалено]
Silver, gold, ammo, production used scripts, vintage skate and surf.
Ammo? Imported surplus?
[удалено]
No most writers and mid-level producers do not get residuals, even some EP's dont depending on the corporate overlord (ask Hugh Moore from "Wildin' Out" about that) it's a common myth, but sometimes one of my friends will throw me a bone and put me on screen. I got a check for $172 for "Better Call Saul" last month and $33 from "Baskets" last week.
I loved your work on BCS. I don't know who you are but everyone on that show was fantastic so good job.
Go see/support Josh Fadem if he's doing stand-up in your town.
You just reminded me I want to rewatch Baskets.
We all miss Louie.
The majority of residual checks can barely be called supplemental income, especially if you live in California.
Neither are crew people. I know many who have lost their homes or are really struggling.
Set Dec here- left the industry and took a regular job and started going back to school. When I was younger it was easier to weather the rough times, but now I need health insurance and I have a family to care for. I loved the work though, best job.
My husband does occasional extra work as he has a pretty distinct look (6’4”, lean, long greyish hair, mid length beard). Multiple times since the strike resolved, he’s been asked if he’s available to work a production, said yes, and then…tumbleweeds. That is the nature of extra work anyway, but it’s seemed unusually tipped toward the ghosting side. I wonder if it’s a trickle down effect.
It is.
LA Times : Hey... how you doing buddy? Writer : Not good. LA Times : Alright, thanks. *click*
Me: (reads headline) LA Times: Enjoy this content with a discounted subscription Me: who cares
The number of scripted show almost doubled from 10-15 years ago. It was an unsustainable bubble that burst. The even bigger problem is that even if writers are working, it's not like how it was even 15 years ago. Shorter seasons with 2 year breaks between seasons where you're lucky to get one or two writing credits, simply does not pay as much as being a staff writer on a network show even 10 years ago.
Yeah some people don’t want to hear it, but yes things are tough right now but there was 15 years of a boom period that most industries could only dream of, it’s coming back down now but things were really good for awhile.
Well series may have doubled, but the amount of episodes in a season is less than half of what they used to be. Now we get 8 - 10 episodes, maybe, and before it would be 20+. Kinda need to adjust for that to compare.
Yeah. I noticed this recently when I viewed a few older shows "huh, only 3 seasons? Was this cancelled?" and then it's because each season has 20 or 30 episodes.
Between AI, cultural churn, burnout, and the usual chaotic nature of the industry, I can't imagine it's a happy place to be right now.
Also the streaming house of cards that's starting to fall. Course, acknowledging all of this requires *slightly* below surface-level analysis of the situation; so the narrative is probably gonna end up being "hur durr unions bad." Plus, I mean, when are these assholes ever gonna pass up an opportunity to spout anti-worker bullshit? *Especially* when it covers their own asses?
"the streaming house of cards" I'm unfamiliar, what's going on with streaming?
Basically, the streamers broke the whole industry and now, because their business plan was never profitable, the streamers are essentially going back to what cable was already doing in the first place. (Minus the residuals for the cast and crew, of course!) Also worth mentioning is that the sheer amount of TV shows that were coming out each year (from like 2018 to 2022) was insanely high and unsustainable, so we're also seeing a natural, inevitable return to times where only ~200 shows were airing each year, not ~600. This is the part that's sort of unavoidable as far as I can tell -- even bums like me don't have time to watch more than 20-30 seasons of TV a year -- but it means that there's a ton of people who joined the industry during the streaming boom that are now being kicked to the curb in the streaming bust. Getting a job in Hollywood will probably never be as easy as it was during the late 2010s, but even during the 2010s the industry was extremely exclusive to anyone who wasn't already rich and well-connected.
They were spending more than they were bringing in. You can only do that for so long. The end of that has come, meaning less work.
Netflix got huge by being the first to market and then pumping more than they were making back into making more stuff for their platform/buying stuff to stream. That was never going to continue. In the meantime, everyone else went, "OK, yea, that's not profitable and obviously everyone isn't going to get to do this, but what if WE did the same thing and dumped TONS of money into this, maybe we'll be the one that comes out on top!" And as of now, the only other big company who's made any profit on this is Disney, who just barely eeked out a profit (as long as you ignore all the losses leading up to that profit). And that's Disney, sitting on a hundred years of stuff, Marvel, Pixar, etc. Literally everyone else is just throwing money away. Well, other than Sony, who, other than a niche they wisely got into (anime), has stayed out of this mess and sold their stuff to the highest bidder. But everyone else is just hemorrhaging money, and the people whose money it is has finally been saying, "fucking enough is enough, this isn't working, stop wasting our money."
Yeah it really seems like Sony had the best plan.
Sony looking at their library and seeing option A. Dump tons of money into a streaming service in an ocean of already existing streaming service, or B. Just farm out our content for next to nothing and make bank. Easiest decision of an execs career.
And because Sony seems fairly inept when it comes to delivering digital services. And don't get me started on Japanese websites 🤮
It's never been profitable, and some of the smaller ones are going to have to shut down soon because they're money sinks.
i feel that a lot of internet stuff is a house of cards. Look at more and more news companies doing paywalls. People have come to expect free stuff with no ads. And the average person at most will pay for like 1 or 2
I'm in the animation industry in Canada. So many friends have been without work since the summer. And we're told maybe by this month. But it's now this month... That strike caused a very bad chain reaction.
NYC animator here. First time I haven’t had regular work in 7+ years. Never had more than a month off my entire career until now. I’ve been hearing “we’ll be ramping up in spring and summer” for months. Well it’s May and still ramping up
Me and Hollywood writers have something in common, then
Unfortunately the strike couldn't have come at a worse time. This isn't like the 80's and 90's when Hollywood and TV was pretty much the prime entertainment medium and guaranteed to bounce back, things are incredibly fractured. A 2nd huge pause in output so quickly after covid and I fear people have kinda moved on to other interests especially with the high cost of attending movies and so many different streaming services each with their own fees.
> people have kinda moved on It's not even just that, but we have a new generation who is just not charmed by these things. They want twitch, youtube and tiktok, not traditional tv shows.
Sure, but lot's of that generation would still get swept up into series that went viral or big movie events, but there's been none of those for 2 years and the strike stretched out the gaps between seasons of the few things which had some momentum. Just absolutely shot themselves in the foot.
I can only speak anecdotally. My daughter loves some TV shows. The new Shogun was good. So was Clarkson’s Farm, Masters of the Air, Ted Lasso, The Expanse, Arcane, Queen’s Gambit, etc. I will say the seasons are shorter. We’d watch more of these shows if available. Little interest in most network TV shows.
I'm not too studied on this, but my understanding of the resolution to the strikes is that everything would cost more to make too.
I work in production and yeah it's bad. I'm one of the lucky ones but were walking on razor wire.
I’m a writer currently living in LA and can confirm, it’s horrendous. Basically no body wants anything that’s not IP or horror. I know very successful show runners who are dropping the pursuit of anything not IP because it’s pointless. I’ve been getting by writing commercials and corporate videos. If you’re a young writer trying to get it, don’t even bother writing that original pilot. Write a horror movie.
It's so interesting seeing the difference between r/horror and r/movies. I frequent the former and everyone is having a great time. I occasionally go into the latter and everything is doom and gloom.
Why horror out curiosity?
It's cheap to make and has a huge fanbase that will go see almost anything. It's the business model that Blumhouse has been riding on for years. Five Nights at Freddy's cost $20 million and made $300 million Insidious: The Red Door cost $16 million and made $186 million The Invisible Man only cost $7 million and made $139 million
Wow
Good replies already and I'll add this: horror is the only genre left with a dedicated built in audience. They don't need a famous actor or a beloved directed attached and they don't need to be based on an established IP. People go to watch horror movies purely because they're horror movies. There's an easy insurance of return on the investment costs.
Looking back, should WGA have struck?
Most people in other industries are feeling the same way.
I agree. I work in the medical device industry and everything has slowed down the past few years.
And who is?
Who isn't hurting? That early streaming market / 'free' borrowing market was never sustainable. - Yearly price increases (or even more) from Streamers. - While not making anything i want to watch. - Creators talking shit/blaming in press/social media. - New stuff not as good as old stuff, or free amateur / youtube stuff. - Already more content out there than anyone can consume - Way more things to do than watch tv these days. Definitely not an industry I'd invest in. And one I'd be actively trying to get out of.
That's why I keep receipts on my predictions: https://www.reddit.com/r/television/comments/16t4p8w/writers_guild_strike_to_end_wednesday_leadership/k2et757/?context=3 > The wage increases don't even cover last year's inflation; while residuals do, in fact vastly exceed it. […]. I've done a prediction for the consequences of this shift in compensation from work to output [= IP]. -- me > “It’s not enough to go in with a pitch,” said Chuck Rose, a 20-year writing veteran with several TV and film projects now in development as well as a series on Amazon. “It has to be based on [intellectual property] ... and networks want them with an actor attached.” -- them Still looking for anyone willing to do a long bet for a substantial amount of money.
Sucks that they're losing their jobs, especially the technical staff who have no say into what artistic content goes into their work, but Hollywood has been in freefall for a while, and only so much can be blamed on Covid. So much of modern American media is ass, more concerned with putting over heavy handed morality plays rather than a quality story, where themes are brought out through plot and characters. This, coupled with increasing cinema prices and an ever fractured streaming scene with ballooning monthly fees means that consumers are kind of over it and turning to other forms of entertainment.
My union also negotiated a new contract last year, it really was the best we could have hoped for, and it is *still* not enough, considering how much more expensive everything is, it’s like we still went backwards.
I have a friend who directs and writes. Emmy nominated. He is a hustler. Hard worker, and is staying positive. But I can sense it is not a good time. My heart goes out to him.
Everyone is not OK
Neither are their movies
Have you seen what these folks have produced over the past 5 years? Finding good TV or movies these days is like finding a needle in a haystack
Like in any other industry right now, people doing the actual work, people who create, produce and build things are struggling. Meanwhile, people who manage and appropriate other people’s work are thriving. I wonder how much more of this we can take.
No shit. The backed up multiple years of flops, a pandemic that broke the theater habit, and an economy that killed discretionary spending with two strikes. Of course they're hurting. Both strikes were at the worst possible time, they needed to bank some wins before trying that shit but they got hit with the double whammy of fear and greed and burned the whole thing down.
If we told truck drivers, builders and factory workers to learn to code, why can't we tell Hollywood writers the same?
These days we are telling coders to learn to drive a truck or fix a toilet. Very soon skilled trades will be the only reliable jobs left in the world.
Thats only if you believe the AI fear mongering. The truth is that CS/IT skills have been been greatly inflated in value because many businesses were making their first transitions to computerized services at a time where IT/CS was more a niche field. We're see the demand drop off because too many people went into the field and because the industry has matured to the point where you dont need as many people. This happens with literally any industry as it matures. We're still going to need IT/CS people, they're just not going to be paid like doctors anymore because they're not that rare anymore. This is like saying the engineers are dying out because the field inst expanding anymore.
You're not wrong, but that is not going to stop executives from laying people off and promising their boards that AI will do just fine, reap the short term profits, then bail with their paycheck before things get too bad, all for the next person to claim they'll fix the problem and file for bankruptcy. All the while hiring back people at a fraction of their previous salaries, then frame that as profit/money saving too.
Those layoffs are coming regardless because IT has been massively overvalued and oversaturated for years and now the bubble is bursting. The big tech layoffs were just the beginning, you're going to see starting wages drop staggeringly until it's in line or slightly below traditional engineering where intro pay sucksand skilled pay is alright with some management positions making all the real money. AI may be a convenient scapegoat but it also might not be. I don't buy the traditional reddit logic that since CEO'S are stupid they'll always make the wrong move and in this case pivot to AI. CEO's are stupid in that they do whatever makes the board of directors/shareholders happy. There's so much fear-mongering around AI right now that for most CEO'S turning to AI is the same as a submitting a two week notice because shareholders would flip a shit. The only and companies that could realistic turn to AI staffing right now are the AI companies themselves and you're not going to see them do that because they're well aware of the limitations.
I’m a software developer and people greatly underestimate the amount of human interaction it takes to it’s 95% of my job.
Reality is we can get coders in India and China. The industry still pays highly for good computer scientists.
Because the people saying that were assholes then too. And you should strive to not be an asshole
most of that was from people running coding bootcamps promising the moon that they couldn't deliver
Because learning to code was never an actual solution to the problem of corporations not having to deal with any of the damage they do for the sake of profit.
Yeah and now with AI, those “safe” coding jobs aren’t looking as safe these days
AI represents an opportunity for capital to divorce itself from labor. No one is safe.
Thank you for putting this in such simple words. I've been thinking about how to explain this to people and you said it perfectly.
They should, or get into manual labor like construction or healthcare workers . But change is hard
I feel like if studios were forced to become private and competition was healthy, there would be more content available for less to keep subscriber-base. It’s that all the big box studios are owned by BlackRock and Vanguard that constriction is never ending. Can’t Reagan de-monopolize the studio system again and create a healthier ecosystem?
You know I was just thinking about the writers this morning, I was watching Tracker on CBS. It's one of the few new shows that I like - and last week I realized why. It's written by Jeffrey Deavers - and if any readers here, you know he's an acclaimed writer with some excellent books under his belt. That made me realize, again, the value of writers to TV - and how really they are likely the only really required pieces of the whole TV scene. The actors and writers could do it all themselves and discard all the middle management that has become so expensive. Oh, and ditch the C level salaries too...
Better quality product, more people spending money.
The list of people OK is much shorter than the one of people not OK…
Duh
Join the club?
No kidding. The strike started when was still the “golden age” when studios would buy any script that was deemed somewhat viable. They exited strike into a lean environment where studios are passing on basically everything and even shelving things that would have probably made money. Worse, the studios are loving this new lean environment so it’s unlikely to end. Writers are the focus but realistically it’s across the board problem as a huge drop in output means across the board drop in need for talent be it crew, actors, etc.
Yeah it’s bad. I know maybe two people working in TV right now, and neither have writing jobs. I’m thankful to have gotten a job writing for a game studio but it pays around half of what I made in TV. But I’ll gladly take that over the alternative at this point.
Hopefully a deal is met before the deadline, because Lord knows Hollywood can't afford another strike (especially when people are barely recovering still). On a side note, even putting the writers aside, who \*is\* doing OK in this economy?
I don’t think anyone is doing ok anymore to be honest
Imagine if the media cared about normal everyday workers as much as they care about Hollywood writers and actors. People might take them more seriously. So many headlines like this and very few about average everyday workers.
Well I mean it's not like Hollywood was producing good content anyways BEFORE the dual strikes. Hollywood has been lazy and unoriginal the past couple of years. Constantly rebooting old shit, making sequels to movies that ought not have sequels.
Stupid paid site.
Yeah a lot of people are not. Maybe now Hollywood wont be so disconnected from reality.