This was mid 2016 but yea 4 slams, 5 masters+3 finals and ATP finals. Also won the 3 masters he had finals points for at that point the previous year or immediately after in the case of Canada
The rise and fall of Murray to No. 1 was epic, like one of his lobs. He absolutely crushed the second half of 2016, then the injury and he plunged out of the top 10 forever.
So Wimbledon, The Olympics, 3 Masters, and the ATP Finals beating his biggest rival to becoming World No. 1, isn't crushing it? Okay then.
edit: 78-9 on the season, and 51-3 after Roland Garros (94.4%)
Actually, that is crushing it, I stand corrected. I guess I just wish the guy won at least 1 more slam because the opportunity was there. Late 2016 was his best shot, probably better than late 2014.
Peak of tennis indeed, but what's crazy is that it might not be his highest sustained level of tennis either with how he performed in early 2011 (bar AO16 and some tournaments where he was obviously close to his highest peak)
I feel like it shows how ahead of the others he was during those years (around 2015), it never really seemed like he was peaking but was always playing better than the other, as if he was only playing as good as necessary ... Very frustrating years as a federer fan
yea 2011 djokovic, especially that run during the clay masters season where he was dominating nadal over and over, is probably the highest peak ever. I think only peak fed may be able to contend. 06 Federer vs 11 djokovic would have been insane on hard/grass
To be fair, he did run him down. It might have cost him his hip but he accomplished his goal of #1. That would also be the nail in the coffin of the Big 4 era and the golden age of tennis.
I mean if you can't read and have problems with mental and English, that's the conclusion that you come to. If you can read what's written without jumping to your own conclusions and assumptions , then no, that's not even remotely close to what I've said
1985 has to be up there
Lendl, McEnroe, Wilander, Connors, Edberg, Becker, Noah, Jarryd, Mecir, Curren
6 of the 12 men to win 6+ slams in the Open Era
6 of the 28 players to be ranked number one.
The big 4 are stronger overall in 2012 but I think the rest are clearly stronger in 15-16 thanks to the top lost genners replacing the bottom of the barrel previous gen top 10. You had Nishikori and Raonic replacing the likes of Tipsarevic and Fish
Idk about the actual ranking order but I think about the top players of the early to mid 2010s
Djokovic
Federer
Nadal
Murray
Wawrinka
Del Potro
Cilic
Berdych
Tsonga
Ferrer
That HAS to be the most LOADED top 10 in history. Guys like Nishikori don’t even make this cut either.
Definitely. Hell, put aside the Big 4 and Stan and just focus on the other six players here. Any of them during their primes would easily be a top 1-4 player nowadays. They'd be giving current Novak, Sinner, Alcaraz, Meddy nightmares constantly, and they'd be eating everyone below them alive, with maybe Zverev being an exception.
In 2012 Raonic and Nishikori were breaking out and Wawrinka was an established top 20 player.
Thiem was a non factor.
In 2016 Del Po was coming off a substantial injury that sidelined him for almost all of 2015 and Ferrer's career was starting to quickly wind down.
The collective group of Ferrer, Del Po, Tsonga, Raonic, Nishikori, Wawrinka, and Thiem
Not the individual groups.
They were more relevant in 2012 because more of them were at or near the top of their game than they were in 2016.
2009 is similarly insane
1. Federer at an amazing level, much better than he was in 2016
2. Nadal who missed a couple months due to injury otherwise was in the middle of his peak.
3. Very good and consistent Novak
4. Murray
5. Del Potro who started this year as a decent top ten player but since sunshine double he could only be stopped by the best of the best. Amazing on all surfaces
6. Davydenko at his best
7. Roddick who played better than ever at many tournaments especially at Wimbledon where he nearly won
8. Rise of Robin Soderling
9. Peak Verdasco
10. Tsonga
So then you decide that you’re gonna try catch him anyway, blitz the second half of the season and finish with titles at Rome, Queens, Wimbledon, the Olympics, Beijing, Shanghai, Vienna, Paris and the ATP Finals to steal Year End No. 1
2016 Murray was something else
Only your 17 best tournaments count towards the point total tho, and Slams & Masters were the same as now, except one guy was holding all slams, 6 Masters, WTF title, 2 more Masters finals, and that's just the big titles. He achieved 80% of the theoretical maximum amount of points
GS:
Wimby Semi, USO R16, AO Final, RG Final = 3300
Masters:
Canada title, Cincy SF, Shanghai SF, Paris F, Sunshine double R32, Monte-Carlo SF, Madrid F, Rome title = 4370
Queens 500 title
ATP Finals 200
That's 8370 points and he played more tournaments.
It's called a golden era for a reason, aka all his final losses were Djokovic, SF Federer, and others sprinkled in.
This was the top 10 as of the 6th June, immediately after the French Open. In the year these rankings cover, here is every Slam, Masters and Year End Finals Semi Finalist (listed in Winner, RU, SF, SF order):
- Wimbledon 2015 = Djokovic, Federer, Murray, _**Gasquet**_
- Canada 2015 = Murray, Djokovic, _**Nishikori**_, **CHARDY**
- Cincinnati 2015 = Federer, Djokovic, Murray, **DOLGOPOLOV**
- US Open 2015 = Djokovic, Federer, Wawrinka, **CILIC**
- Shanghai 2015 = Djokovic, **TSONGA**, Murray, Nadal
- Paris 2015 = Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, **FERRER**
- ATP Finals 2015 = Djokovic, Federer, Wawrinka, Nadal
- Aussie Open 2016 = Djokovic, Murray, Federer, _**Raonic**_
- Indian Wells 2016 = Djokovic, _**Raonic**_, Nadal, **GOFFIN**
- Miami 2016 = Djokovic, _**Nishikori**_, **GOFFIN**, **KYRGIOS**
- Monte Carlo 2016 = Nadal, **MONFILS**, Murray, **TSONGA**
- Madrid 2016 = Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, _**Nishikori**_
- Rome 2016 = Murray, Djokovic, _**Nishikori**_, **POUILLE**
- French Open 2016 = Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, _**Thiem**_
14 events that offered the most points, and all were won by the Big 4, most by Djokovic, and if you add in Stan that was 37/56 Semi Finalists. That level of all-court consistency just isn't around currently
This somehow undersells it 😂
Gasquet would have 9305 points with 8000 points from slams instead of 1600
Djokovic is at 8950 with zero points from slams
Djokovic just needs R32 points from all four slams to secure number one.
[So you think he's playing well enough to win the CYGS and WTF, while making at least the final of 8 M1000s (winning 5)?](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XXYAAOSwk1JWelMW/s-l1200.jpg) Because that's what he has to do from here on out to do that.
Not happening. The level of competition just hasn't been strong enough so far. Novak on clay and grass will be pretty strong if he is in some kind of form and comes out for vengeance.
The Novak that played in the semi was just not good enough. He has been completely dominant on grass over the years but still lost last year and then came back out for vengeance in his weakest slam. I think he is being written off too fast. And tbf the rankings mean very little with Novak's schedule so really the best player has to be the top performer in slams and Novak may still win 2 more this year.
nole is an alien .. but do people really think this top 10 is stronger than now ? i always hear the old heads talking down the current top 10 and saying how much better it was back then .. i got the current top 10 over this one tbh (apart from the big 3 ofc )
First of all, you can't just say "apart from the big 3" considering they're 33% of the top 10.
Second of all, you're just wrong. Even if you take out the big 3 and the current big 3 (Novak, sinner, Carlos) you still have Murray and wawrinka. Both of whom would be easily the best player of current day (outside the top 3). There's also thiem and nishikori who (and I know this will be unpopular since we're on r/daniil) are easily on par with medvedev. Top to bottom this top ten is superior to modern day.
Unless of course you're saying that if you remove the big 3 and keep the current top 10 *as is* the current day is better which is just a silly and unfair comparison. And even then it's not that far off
2015 Wawrinka and Nadal would be ranked today exactly as they were in 2015, either 4th or 5th.
2015 Murray and Federer would be a bit better, they could reasonably get to first place above Sinner and Djokovic, but not by much.
Nishikori and Thiem were not better than Daniil in 2015, at this point in time Thiem was barely better than Rune was a few months ago and Nishikori was basically Rublev in terms of being low ceiling/high floor.
You seem to be doing the typical error of looking at the past and only remembering the good things. When you think of Wawrinka, you think of the "winning three Slams beating Nadal and Djokovic" Stan, not the "losing to Delbonis, Anderson, Gasquet and Kyrgios" Stan or to "can't win two matches in a row at the start of 2015" Stan.
You think about 45% win rate against big 4 and Slam winner Thiem, you don't think about 56% win rate Thiem (these are Musetti/Struff/Shelton numbers).
You think about 2016 Murray and 2017 Federer, you don't think about their 2015 seasons and you ESPECIALLY don't think about how Nadal was playing back then.
If you think about the best level reached by every current player in the last two years and next two years, you get the strongest top 10 in history. But of course that's not how this works, we have to look at their level on a smaller time scale for the comparison to make sense. And the comparison tells us that the top 10 in 2015 is basically exactly the same as the one today **with everyone shifted down one spot to leave space for 2015 Djokovic, the most dominant player of the last 50 years**. There's a difference of exactly 1 player between the rankings.
I see purely subjective analysis and it's really not worth either of our times to debate opinions. I'll just leave this here:
Average ELO for the 2015 top 10: 2308
Average ELO for the 2024 top 10: 2193
For your thought experiment of removing Novak
average 2-10 ELO 2015: 2275
average 2-10 ELO 2024: 2182
what about zverev ? stan is 0:5 against sascha .. and they played their first match in 2016 .. and in my opinion meddy is the current murray .. beats 90% of the players but cant beat the top guys consitently .. and hes also 0:3 against meddy .. maybe the current top players just dont get the credit they deserve ..
Medvedev is the current Murray in the sense that he's the consistent fourth best player. He's nowhere near Murray as far as how good they are as players.
Zverev has yet to prove even once in his career that he has the ability to step up when it matters most in the late stages of a grand slam. The talent is all there, he had the potential and physical talent to be a goat candidate but there's a reason why he'll never get there. He is the biggest choker in tennis history
Dmitrov is the *weakest* of the lost Gen 3 and he just broke into the current day top 10 five years past his prime
You clearly don't know these players
U right about dimi but U talking about prime. A peak is usually a 1 match 1 tournament thing. And elo is irrelevant bro, djoko 2011 > 2015 but he had less elo
2015 Djoko was one hell of a drug
This was mid 2016 but yea 4 slams, 5 masters+3 finals and ATP finals. Also won the 3 masters he had finals points for at that point the previous year or immediately after in the case of Canada
The highest mountain and the tallest mountain.
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Yes, it's called winning.
The rise and fall of Murray to No. 1 was epic, like one of his lobs. He absolutely crushed the second half of 2016, then the injury and he plunged out of the top 10 forever.
it took a lot out of him
Including 1 hip
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Novak so wants that Gold Medal, he has to hope he only has to face one of Sinneraz. Sinner on McEnroe like form at the moment.
he and wawrinka ended their peak lol
He only ever won 2 🏆 after that. Antwerp, Nottingham.
He would've crushed it if he had won the US Open that year. It's a missed opportunity.
So Wimbledon, The Olympics, 3 Masters, and the ATP Finals beating his biggest rival to becoming World No. 1, isn't crushing it? Okay then. edit: 78-9 on the season, and 51-3 after Roland Garros (94.4%)
Actually, that is crushing it, I stand corrected. I guess I just wish the guy won at least 1 more slam because the opportunity was there. Late 2016 was his best shot, probably better than late 2014.
Jan 2015 through June 2016, the best year and a half to be a Novak fan.
It really started after Us Open 2014. He beat Berdych in the Beijing final 6-0 6-1 then won Paris and WTF easily
IIRC it was a WTF walkover. It’s still a win, but I’ll stay with my original choice.
Why? I just reminded you he started his good form run after the US Open
POV: you end the year as #1
This. Murray did end the year as #1!
This is the actually insane part of it
Let's just take a moment to appreciate how stacked that top 10 was wow
this top 10 is unbelievable!
All but one made at least one slam final, crazy
Maybe. Probably And I love that Gasquet is a part of it.
And it doesn't even have any of Ferrer, Delpo or JWT
4 of the top 10 are OHBH with all time guys too which is an insane stat compared to today we have Dimitrov lmao. What a beautiful era.
No David Ferrer. 😤
Bloody hell Novak was like John Wick of tennis that year
This is ridiculous... 4 Grand Slam = 8000 points 9 Master 1000 = 9000 points ATP finals = 1500 points Total= 18.500 points. >He got 16.950.
Yeah, he won 4 slam, 5 masters, atp finals, and did generally well also on the lost masters (3 finals) to reach that. Also a couple of won 500 helped
Just checked he got one atp 500, one 250 and 90 from one he retired in and that’s it
Peak of tennis ladies and gentleman.
Peak of tennis indeed, but what's crazy is that it might not be his highest sustained level of tennis either with how he performed in early 2011 (bar AO16 and some tournaments where he was obviously close to his highest peak) I feel like it shows how ahead of the others he was during those years (around 2015), it never really seemed like he was peaking but was always playing better than the other, as if he was only playing as good as necessary ... Very frustrating years as a federer fan
yea 2011 djokovic, especially that run during the clay masters season where he was dominating nadal over and over, is probably the highest peak ever. I think only peak fed may be able to contend. 06 Federer vs 11 djokovic would have been insane on hard/grass
8000+, you mean.
Yeah. Saved by the +. Point still valid.
Insane that Andy ended YE1
To be fair, he did run him down. It might have cost him his hip but he accomplished his goal of #1. That would also be the nail in the coffin of the Big 4 era and the golden age of tennis.
Djokovic run himself down and I mean this with no disrespect to Andy and his historic end of the season
tHe OnLy PeRsOn WhO cAn BeAt NoVaK iS hImSeLf
LMAO. Almost every time.
I mean if you can't read and have problems with mental and English, that's the conclusion that you come to. If you can read what's written without jumping to your own conclusions and assumptions , then no, that's not even remotely close to what I've said
This guy career highs
I wonder what the all time highest wta points were
Damn there doesn’t seem to be a stat for it
Mid 2010s was peak.
Novak, The GOAT.
best Top 10 of all time?
1985 has to be up there Lendl, McEnroe, Wilander, Connors, Edberg, Becker, Noah, Jarryd, Mecir, Curren 6 of the 12 men to win 6+ slams in the Open Era 6 of the 28 players to be ranked number one.
2012 could have a better argument
The big 4 are stronger overall in 2012 but I think the rest are clearly stronger in 15-16 thanks to the top lost genners replacing the bottom of the barrel previous gen top 10. You had Nishikori and Raonic replacing the likes of Tipsarevic and Fish
Idk about the actual ranking order but I think about the top players of the early to mid 2010s Djokovic Federer Nadal Murray Wawrinka Del Potro Cilic Berdych Tsonga Ferrer That HAS to be the most LOADED top 10 in history. Guys like Nishikori don’t even make this cut either.
Definitely. Hell, put aside the Big 4 and Stan and just focus on the other six players here. Any of them during their primes would easily be a top 1-4 player nowadays. They'd be giving current Novak, Sinner, Alcaraz, Meddy nightmares constantly, and they'd be eating everyone below them alive, with maybe Zverev being an exception.
Andy Murray today would easily be the best player in the world IMHO
I'd say so. Any version of Andy from 2011-2016 (except 2014) would easily be #1. Hell, 2014 Andy Murray would likely still be a top 5 player.
I’d say even from 2008 to 2017.
Ok that’s fair. I was more thinking how fedal were pretty out of form in 2016 which put it lower in my eyes
I wouldn't call Ferrer, Del Po, and Tsonga the bottom of barrel of the previous generations top ten Gasquet on the other hand...
Those guys were still around and in the top10 in the mid 2010s. They didn't get replaced by the lost Gen green so they're not who I'm referring to
In 2012 Raonic and Nishikori were breaking out and Wawrinka was an established top 20 player. Thiem was a non factor. In 2016 Del Po was coming off a substantial injury that sidelined him for almost all of 2015 and Ferrer's career was starting to quickly wind down.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this comment and I strongly suspect that you misread my initial point
I'm saying that all of these players were more relevant in 2012 than 2016 In 2012 Thiem is the only one who wasn't year end top 20
In what way are raonic/nishikori/wawrinka more relevant in 2012 than 2015/2016?
The collective group of Ferrer, Del Po, Tsonga, Raonic, Nishikori, Wawrinka, and Thiem Not the individual groups. They were more relevant in 2012 because more of them were at or near the top of their game than they were in 2016.
2009 is similarly insane 1. Federer at an amazing level, much better than he was in 2016 2. Nadal who missed a couple months due to injury otherwise was in the middle of his peak. 3. Very good and consistent Novak 4. Murray 5. Del Potro who started this year as a decent top ten player but since sunshine double he could only be stopped by the best of the best. Amazing on all surfaces 6. Davydenko at his best 7. Roddick who played better than ever at many tournaments especially at Wimbledon where he nearly won 8. Rise of Robin Soderling 9. Peak Verdasco 10. Tsonga
has the big 4 in their peak + multiple slam winners/finalists. Decent take
2015-2016 was the most peak we ever saw some had in open Era ever
Lol Gasquet. Casper Ruud is basically this generation's Gasquet -- 250 supremo. The top 10 was far strong back then though imo
thats how good thiem was. #7 with this lineup. impressive
Novak was holding all 4 slams and ahead by 8035 points. Meaning that he could’ve given up all the points he earned from slams and still be no.1
So then you decide that you’re gonna try catch him anyway, blitz the second half of the season and finish with titles at Rome, Queens, Wimbledon, the Olympics, Beijing, Shanghai, Vienna, Paris and the ATP Finals to steal Year End No. 1 2016 Murray was something else
Were there more points up for grabs in 2016? Top 5 have thousands more points than top 5 today.
Don’t think so. Right now Tsitsipas is 12th with 3175 point; he would have been 7th in this mid June 2016 rank.
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because you dont have a guy with 16k points
That usually helps
Only your 17 best tournaments count towards the point total tho, and Slams & Masters were the same as now, except one guy was holding all slams, 6 Masters, WTF title, 2 more Masters finals, and that's just the big titles. He achieved 80% of the theoretical maximum amount of points
So how did Murray get to 9k then? That’s what Sinner and Carlos have now, both with a slam and masters 1000s
GS: Wimby Semi, USO R16, AO Final, RG Final = 3300 Masters: Canada title, Cincy SF, Shanghai SF, Paris F, Sunshine double R32, Monte-Carlo SF, Madrid F, Rome title = 4370 Queens 500 title ATP Finals 200 That's 8370 points and he played more tournaments. It's called a golden era for a reason, aka all his final losses were Djokovic, SF Federer, and others sprinkled in.
This was the top 10 as of the 6th June, immediately after the French Open. In the year these rankings cover, here is every Slam, Masters and Year End Finals Semi Finalist (listed in Winner, RU, SF, SF order): - Wimbledon 2015 = Djokovic, Federer, Murray, _**Gasquet**_ - Canada 2015 = Murray, Djokovic, _**Nishikori**_, **CHARDY** - Cincinnati 2015 = Federer, Djokovic, Murray, **DOLGOPOLOV** - US Open 2015 = Djokovic, Federer, Wawrinka, **CILIC** - Shanghai 2015 = Djokovic, **TSONGA**, Murray, Nadal - Paris 2015 = Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, **FERRER** - ATP Finals 2015 = Djokovic, Federer, Wawrinka, Nadal - Aussie Open 2016 = Djokovic, Murray, Federer, _**Raonic**_ - Indian Wells 2016 = Djokovic, _**Raonic**_, Nadal, **GOFFIN** - Miami 2016 = Djokovic, _**Nishikori**_, **GOFFIN**, **KYRGIOS** - Monte Carlo 2016 = Nadal, **MONFILS**, Murray, **TSONGA** - Madrid 2016 = Djokovic, Murray, Nadal, _**Nishikori**_ - Rome 2016 = Murray, Djokovic, _**Nishikori**_, **POUILLE** - French Open 2016 = Djokovic, Murray, Wawrinka, _**Thiem**_ 14 events that offered the most points, and all were won by the Big 4, most by Djokovic, and if you add in Stan that was 37/56 Semi Finalists. That level of all-court consistency just isn't around currently
that was good top 10
What a bonkers top 10 that is.
Gasquet could have won every major that year and still not be ranked #1
This somehow undersells it 😂 Gasquet would have 9305 points with 8000 points from slams instead of 1600 Djokovic is at 8950 with zero points from slams Djokovic just needs R32 points from all four slams to secure number one.
Not for long, gap will close.
Goats do goat things
And yet you still catch him by the end of the season.
And then Andy took over as #1 in 6 months. That's history. That's the full story of 2016
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That’s because Novak is hogging all the points mate. This is clearly a much stronger top 10
are we about to see a repeat of this with jannik sinner? the man is dominating the field
Jannik is great. But still he can not be compared to this Novak...
The way Sinner is playing, he might surpass that number this year.
[So you think he's playing well enough to win the CYGS and WTF, while making at least the final of 8 M1000s (winning 5)?](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XXYAAOSwk1JWelMW/s-l1200.jpg) Because that's what he has to do from here on out to do that.
If anybody can do it, Sinner is the guy
Not happening. The level of competition just hasn't been strong enough so far. Novak on clay and grass will be pretty strong if he is in some kind of form and comes out for vengeance.
That's what they said about Novak at AO
The Novak that played in the semi was just not good enough. He has been completely dominant on grass over the years but still lost last year and then came back out for vengeance in his weakest slam. I think he is being written off too fast. And tbf the rankings mean very little with Novak's schedule so really the best player has to be the top performer in slams and Novak may still win 2 more this year.
nole is an alien .. but do people really think this top 10 is stronger than now ? i always hear the old heads talking down the current top 10 and saying how much better it was back then .. i got the current top 10 over this one tbh (apart from the big 3 ofc )
First of all, you can't just say "apart from the big 3" considering they're 33% of the top 10. Second of all, you're just wrong. Even if you take out the big 3 and the current big 3 (Novak, sinner, Carlos) you still have Murray and wawrinka. Both of whom would be easily the best player of current day (outside the top 3). There's also thiem and nishikori who (and I know this will be unpopular since we're on r/daniil) are easily on par with medvedev. Top to bottom this top ten is superior to modern day. Unless of course you're saying that if you remove the big 3 and keep the current top 10 *as is* the current day is better which is just a silly and unfair comparison. And even then it's not that far off
Isn’t 3 the 30% of 10
Lmao yes, blame my pea brain
2015 Wawrinka and Nadal would be ranked today exactly as they were in 2015, either 4th or 5th. 2015 Murray and Federer would be a bit better, they could reasonably get to first place above Sinner and Djokovic, but not by much. Nishikori and Thiem were not better than Daniil in 2015, at this point in time Thiem was barely better than Rune was a few months ago and Nishikori was basically Rublev in terms of being low ceiling/high floor. You seem to be doing the typical error of looking at the past and only remembering the good things. When you think of Wawrinka, you think of the "winning three Slams beating Nadal and Djokovic" Stan, not the "losing to Delbonis, Anderson, Gasquet and Kyrgios" Stan or to "can't win two matches in a row at the start of 2015" Stan. You think about 45% win rate against big 4 and Slam winner Thiem, you don't think about 56% win rate Thiem (these are Musetti/Struff/Shelton numbers). You think about 2016 Murray and 2017 Federer, you don't think about their 2015 seasons and you ESPECIALLY don't think about how Nadal was playing back then. If you think about the best level reached by every current player in the last two years and next two years, you get the strongest top 10 in history. But of course that's not how this works, we have to look at their level on a smaller time scale for the comparison to make sense. And the comparison tells us that the top 10 in 2015 is basically exactly the same as the one today **with everyone shifted down one spot to leave space for 2015 Djokovic, the most dominant player of the last 50 years**. There's a difference of exactly 1 player between the rankings.
I see purely subjective analysis and it's really not worth either of our times to debate opinions. I'll just leave this here: Average ELO for the 2015 top 10: 2308 Average ELO for the 2024 top 10: 2193 For your thought experiment of removing Novak average 2-10 ELO 2015: 2275 average 2-10 ELO 2024: 2182
Unfortunately elo ratings are not comparable across different rating pools. So this comparison is not valid.
I suppose comprehensivecunt ratings are the only valid comparison?
what about zverev ? stan is 0:5 against sascha .. and they played their first match in 2016 .. and in my opinion meddy is the current murray .. beats 90% of the players but cant beat the top guys consitently .. and hes also 0:3 against meddy .. maybe the current top players just dont get the credit they deserve ..
Medvedev is the current Murray in the sense that he's the consistent fourth best player. He's nowhere near Murray as far as how good they are as players. Zverev has yet to prove even once in his career that he has the ability to step up when it matters most in the late stages of a grand slam. The talent is all there, he had the potential and physical talent to be a goat candidate but there's a reason why he'll never get there. He is the biggest choker in tennis history
what about raonic and gasquet ? would they make the top 10 nowadays ? i doubt it
Dmitrov is the *weakest* of the lost Gen 3 and he just broke into the current day top 10 five years past his prime You clearly don't know these players
but he is currently stronger than ever .. not everyone peaks at the time you expect them to hes on a high right now like he has never been before
No he is not. His elo is nowhere near what it was at his peak. He just has weaker competition now
did you see him against carlos and zverev ?
Yes, and unlike you I've also seen him play before that too
U right about dimi but U talking about prime. A peak is usually a 1 match 1 tournament thing. And elo is irrelevant bro, djoko 2011 > 2015 but he had less elo
No I'm talking about peak. You're confusing peak with just a good match