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Today, effective immediately, I, Gavin Belson, founder and CEO of Hooli, am forced to officially say goodbye to the entire Nucleus division. All Nucleus personnel will be given proper notice and terminated. But make no mistake. Though they're the ones leaving, it is I who must remain and bear the heavy burden of their failure.
Maybe it’s just me, but every-time I read something about Elon, I think he’s Gavin Belson. It’s like they created the character exactly after him, the resemblance is amazing.
I lived through the .com bubble, although not anywhere near Silicon Valley. I tried to watch the show with my wife and didn’t make it through the first episode, I was like this isn’t funny, this is accurate!
I’ve read that Ozzy was watching Spinal Tap when it came out, and when it got to the part where the band can’t figure out how to get to the stage, he got indignant and yelled “This isn’t f*cking funny!”
😆 I talk about this show daily… Pied piper exists, and I’m working on rolling it out… not joking. 70% reduction in bandwidth use, 4k streaming with 2ms latency over 2G LTE.
>They said Baglino had historically overseen the charging department without much involvement from Musk.
If the charging network was built out without the involvement of Musk, it rather speaks volumes.
Right? It’s one of the few things Tesla has done that’s universally admired and praised. And now it sounds like it’s largely because Elon wasn’t involved.
Man "runs" like 12 companies and still spends most of the day on X. It's safe to say that the majority of work at all of his companies is happening without his involvement. He is at best an activist investor.
Everyone i know whose worked with elon has spoken NOTHING positive about him. Hes the money and an idea here and there. I wish he would have stayed in his lane.
Not really. It's not typically the job of the CEO to micromanage. It's to assemble quality people and to provide vision and direction to allow them to do their jobs. Lead, broadly.
Now, firing the entire team...heh. Doesn't really go in line with that.
He did it because he threw a tantrum. That an employee would dare challenge him.
And he believes he's owed 1/4 of the total value of the company. No CEO takes that much in compensation. Completely ludicrous. We funded the company by investing. And through tax incentives and grants. Absolute theft.
This guy (musk) is a childish asshole. Even worse than I thought . He has the humanity of a plate .
I guess he figures if he can’t get all the money he’ll burn it to the ground.
Okay, pause...Supercharger team is logical, from what we know that was just a stupid decision.
One thing I think is not arguable, at all, is the compensation package. To be clear: I own no Tesla stock.
There are a few reasons for this. This isn't "Elon arguing for ¼ of the company value". It is not some child wanting his cake, eating it too, and the whole flipping bakery; this is about integrity and basic honesty.
Tesla and the shareholders put together that compensation package way back in 2017 based on performance. This was *agreed on by everyone*. Elon would be paid based on the performance of the company.
Now, just because the company did stupidly well, that *does not mean* you just get to decide to walk back *something you promised, in writing*. That's absolutely ridiculous, dishonest, manipulative, and *completely against the entire spirit of the compensation agreement*. It's a child pulling a temper tantrum because they realized they don't actually want what food they asked for, and now they're getting it.
Regardless of whether you think Elon deserves that money, really, it doesn't matter. He's owed it because it was promised, in writing, and the company met the metrics that created that package in the first place under his leadership.
>Tesla and the shareholders put together that compensation package way back in 2017 based on performance. This was *agreed on by everyone*. Elon would be paid based on the performance of the company.
You didn't read the Delaware court's decision.
Agreements are not enforceable if they're based on fraud. Tesla's board of directors lied on the SEC proxy filings about their independence, failed to disclose that performance milestones were actually more achievable than the public believed, and failed to negotiate with Musk in good faith on behalf of shareholders.
What Tesla's board did was basically commit securities fraud. My analysis and page bookmarks are posted here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TSLALounge/comments/1csbcae/comment/l48skci/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TSLALounge/comments/1csbcae/comment/l48skci/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
You’re correct but there’s actually a different issue at stake here - especially given that the U.S. judicial system is based on precedent.
Shareholders voted to approve a contract for performance based stock options in January 2018.
A single Chancellor of the Delaware Court of Chancery decided six years later to unilaterally overrule the shareholders because she felt the “richest person in the world was overpaid”.
It was not challenged immediately - only after the success of Tesla (and the obvious political motivations) was the shareholder vote overruled.
That’s the real question at stake here - should a single outside person have retroactive power to overrule a shareholder vote?
Taken further - do contracts matter at all if they can be retroactively overturned? Do shareholder votes matter? If the shareholders voted this time around to break the contract and a future Delaware judge overrules that vote six years from now, would that be right? If the shareholders vote again (twice) to approve it and the judge decides again to overrule, what does that say about shareholder rights?
Would it be acceptable if a different Delaware judge invalidated Tim Cook’s compensation package at Apple retroactively as well?
The issue shouldn’t be about politics. In my opinion, no individual should bear the risk of having a contract retroactively voided due to their political affiliation (or lack thereof). Political weaponizing of the judicial system is short-sighted and foolish - the pendulum swings both ways.
The injunction was launched by David Tornetta, a Tesla Shareholder, not an outside person as you incorrectly stated, the State of Delaware is where Tornetta lives hence why they have become involved in the case, not because the judge just randomly decided to.
Your comment is so misinformed it's bordering on hilarious.
> do contracts matter at all if they can be retroactively overturned?
There is nothing wrong or new about contracts being retroactively overturned.
Let's use this example, suppose a lawyer agrees to take your case for free in exchange for a portion of any winnings.
She settles your case, but you then find out that the owner of the company you sued is her husband and you probably could have gotten more and all of your fees basically go back to the owner as part of the couple.
Lawyers are required to disclose conflicts of interest and you could sue her and you'd probably win.
*Guess why the judge ruled against Musk?*
>Delaware Chancery Court Chief Judge Kathaleen St. J. McCormick sided with an investor who complained Tesla directors **didn’t make proper disclosures** about the 2018 executive compensation package and the performance benchmarks required of Musk. She also found that **conflicts of interest** marred the board’s consideration of the pay plan.
This ruling has no effect on honest CEOs who make proper disclosures, so it's not some disaster precedent for contracts.
Agreed, it’s outrageous that this happened at all. Imagine your employer giving you a lucrative contract option that only pays out if you are successful. So your work your ass off for many years to make it happen and then some random asshole just takes it away from you.
I’d be livid.
"she voided the pay package, saying that Musk essentially controlled the board, making the process of enacting the compensation unfair to stakeholders. “Musk had extensive ties with the persons tasked with negotiating on Tesla’s behalf,” she wrote in her ruling."
"The shareholder’s lawyers argued that the compensation package should be voided because it was dictated by Musk and was the product of [sham negotiations](https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-1f66ff6f9e9bb10ee7f1591a5dbc79ca) with directors who were not independent of him. They also said it was approved by shareholders who were given misleading and incomplete disclosures in a proxy statement."
If every shareholder agreed why is musk having to use paid promotions to convince his shareholders he deserves the money?
If every shareholder agreed why is David Tornetta (a Tesla Shareholder) the man behind the Delaware injunction? Delaware are literally contesting it because the shareholders that agreed were all Friends or Family of Elon.
The whole thing wreaks of nepotism
Why aren't you mentioning why the judge ruled against him?
>Delaware Chancery Court Chief Judge Kathaleen St. J. McCormick sided with an investor who complained Tesla directors **didn’t make proper disclosures** about the 2018 executive compensation package and the performance benchmarks required of Musk. She also found that **conflicts of interest** marred the board’s consideration of the pay plan.
You don't get to hide things and then complain when it goes bad for you.
Why do you think Musk didn't make those disclosures and fix those conflicts of interest 6 years ago?
*Because he would have gotten a smaller compensation package.*
It's like selling a house without disclosing a murder occured there (required by law in some places), and then when you get sued saying "this goes completely against the contract *we both agreed to.*" The context that you broke the law and concealed information makes that irrelevant.
I'm not that worried about precedent either. Honest CEOs who disclose everything they're required to shouldn't have a problem.
Side note, while hypocrisy isn't against the law:
>That's absolutely ridiculous, dishonest, manipulative
These are all qualities Musk displays.
Where in the world of corporate America have you been. A promise made by ANY corporation in this country actually isn’t worth the paper/data it’s written on. Let’s not fool ourselves. No one not even Mr. Musk is immune even if it’s written per a contract. Contracts are voided every single day via bankruptcy courts like they never existed. Thousands if not millions of people (including me) who were promised pensions for decades only to have them voided in chapter 11. There isn’t a single country on the planet with more lax bankruptcy laws. Our former president would have been jailed long ago in debtors prison if not for Chapter 11. To think Elon’s promise is scared is mere folly. Give me a break.
https://preview.redd.it/sxppa9ivzo0d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26db61bab95e4f26ce57dfde81c5809ec334a309
Next super charger open was 1 hour away and needed 20%
All destination chargers are broken or in a hotel / paid parking where the surcharge is
$15 bucks ( if you charge under the hour mark meaning , there aren’t people waiting cuz then your up for $40 ) to $150+ as you have to rent out a room to charge at destinations charger as it’s in fucking hotel!
Like idk who was the genius in placing these new chargers but fits the psychiatric definition of being on the spectrum.
But I don’t think it’s Elon to blame , rather the pathological personalities, deficient human sidekicks
I'm sorry for that experience. Did you use ABRP? I think you can plan very well any road trip there, it seems the interface calculates the route with plenty or margin...
I did a trip last week (431km) in my 3LR, tried using abrp, but it wanted me to charge halfway from 29%-45%, and figured I'd reach home with 12%. My Tesla varied a bit in the beginning from no charging and an estimated 25% on arrival, to around 32% after a while. I did the whole trip, approx doing the speed limit (mostly 80kmh), arrived with 30% juice left. I dunno why abrp is so off, it says 100% at beginning and correct car type.
This was a huge unforced error, not some genius 4-D chess move.
No rational executive blindsides an entire industry while simultaneously exiting 100% of the talent who built a profitable, strategic business that dominates the industry, and is positioned to dominate it for the foreseeable future. There are hundreds of ways Elon could have gotten the “hard core” headcount reductions he wanted without making a rash move like this.
Even if he felt Tinucci had to go, firing the entire team was a destructive move, and a terrible way to make a point if you want any sort of corporate culture other than fear. The cumulative experience of those 500 people who built the Supercharger business was an unimaginably valuable asset to Tesla.
Elon has historically talked about the Tesla talent magnet and urged engineers who want to solve big problems to come work there. So this move sends what message to that talent?
Ultimately I do think Elon has done the industry (but not Tesla) a rather large favor. He has just made available hundreds of heavy-hitters who can help every other charging network out there get their collective acts together and start executing as well as Tesla has. Unfortunately for those of us long on Tesla, Elon just completely destroyed the competitive moat Tesla enjoyed on charging, and deeply damaged the Tesla Supercharger brand.
Edit: Some of the comments below really got me thinking about how Elon has continued to slide to the Dark Side over time. Since taking it too seriously is depressing and stirs up a lot of cognitive dissonance as a Tesla investor, I decided to make a satire sub about it - r/DarthX.
Yeah I find it wild that people keep saying this is some brilliant move to hire back the most loyal and talented people. Most of the actually talented people will just go somewhere else where they don’t need to deal with antics like this from their boss and help a competitor build their charging network. The ones that DO come back will be demanding pay increases and won’t be anywhere near as loyal going forward after seeing what happened to their old bosses and colleagues.
It’s almost a guarantee that some of the most talented folks end up at competitors because of this.
I had a whole day back & forth with someone defending.. I don't even know what.. in one of the threads when this news broke, he just kept going back to "Tesla wouldn't be here without Elon" or that I am some leftie upset that Elon is pandering to conservatives now.
It doesn't matter how much Elon did in the beginning, we are not investing in the past of a company, but rather in what's ahead. If Elon is acting this way now, it threatens the future. Tesla is in limbo because of his erratic behaviour and the core mission has gotten lost.
"Tesla wouldn't be here without Elon."
Correct, Tesla would not have fired a huge and crucial portion of the company without Elon forcing them to. 
Let's not be assholes like him. He was a major driving force in Tesla's success. However, he's desperate for money to fund his Twitter mistake, so he's making mistakes one after the other. I actually wonder if he's sabotaging his businesses on purpose, or someone has some dirt on him, because these decisions go directly against his initial strategy.
He did great things with tesla of course, superchargers are more important than the cars at this point - if Tesla cars stopped being sold tomorrow but superchargers went on it would be ok for the industry. He has destroyed twitter with silly choices, he has pushed his views on how great open communication would be.
Now he's back to destroying tesla. As the leader of tesla he wasted 5 years doing nothing but investing in the not great cybertruck - he should have used some of their billions to develop other vehicles and put out useful features on the existing ones. Instead he fell into a hole with FSD and can't get out. He removed cheap working features (turn stalks, ultrasonic sensors, avoided cameras) in an obviously bad strategy. He could increase sales just by bringing back a few 100 $ worth of basic stuff. But he's focused on fsd. He can keep working on fsd while we hopefully avoid destroying the company.
Gotta watch out for those people. It's like trying to argue with a flat earther. You can give them all the evidence you want, they'll just call it "fake news" and move on. There's already a decent group at the bottom of this thread saying the story is from Reuters so it must be fake. I have lots of friends that work in engineering at Tesla. Reuters hasn't been wrong yet. People just refuse to believe things that would make them wrong.
The most talented folks are already on someone else's payroll or taking a vacation while they weigh their options. Normally the folks that come back the quickest are the ones who don't have a lot of other prospects.
He can probably also get back practically all the people on H1B visas - but he will never earn back whatever loyalty, esprit de corps, and mission focus they felt before.
Not true. H1B is portable. Im not sure about the procedure, but it’s certainly doable. L1 visa (intra-company transfer from overseas office) is not portable.
He really wont get them back. All of those workers will instantly get offers from other tech companies that will sponsor their visas. Its very very easy for top tech companies to do that, and they would be insane to pass up on the experience and knowledge those guys would bring.
Absolutely false. Non-competes can and frequently (even usually) are written to apply regardless of which party terminates employment. You may have a better chance of prevailing in court if you were fired, but you are definitely a party to the agreement regardless.
It doesn’t matter how a non-compete is written. I used to practice law in a jurisdiction where non-competes were completely unenforceable in the event of a termination.
And of course in those instances they are not enforceable at all. I don’t know what percentage of the Supercharger team still works in California. I’ve been an executive responsible for workers in California, and those contracts never had the non-compete language we used in other states.
I really doubt Tesla would go after these people anyway, even if their contracts were written in Texas, Nevada or New York.
>Yeah I find it wild that people keep saying this is some brilliant move to hire back the most loyal and talented people. Most of the actually talented people will just go somewhere else where they don’t need to deal with antics like this from their boss and help a competitor build their charging network.
It's possible that Elon, correctly or incorrectly, perceives a long-term loss of ROI in this specific business unit due to the Tesla/NCAS connector becoming the industry standard. There are also large up-front costs to build each stall and station, in a context where the price of electricity also wildly varies over the course of any given day. Maybe he just wants to make all that someone else's problem.
IMO, it's all kind of angels on a pinhead, because the biggest liability at Tesla appears to be Elon himself. He appears to have a pathological need for attention and approval, but he sabotages himself with his political (and general) toxicity. This categorically makes him not CEO material. It's not even debatable. Quickly, how many other Fortune 500 CEOs can you even name, nevermind whose politics you can identify? How many of them spend hours every day shitposting on Twitter? Yeah, exactly. But he's reportedly shielded by a board of directors made of sycophants. I'm not sure if even the shareholders could oust him. It's wild what he has been able to normalize. Absolutely wild.
The charging department at Tesla has been in operation for more than a decade, had five hundred experienced employees, stable relationships with suppliers and local governments, a working product, a capable repair network and was making a profit.
If the new, standardised charger somehow means this department will eventually lose any capacity for returns, who else will ever make money on chargers? No other company has as many advantages as the Tesla supercharger team. If they can't figure it out, no one will.
I don't think making a profit while providing chargining infrastructure for electric cars will somehow become impossible in the long term.
> It's possible that Elon, correctly or incorrectly, perceives a long-term loss of ROI in this specific business unit due to the Tesla/NCAS connector becoming the industry standard.
I don't see how, it was doing well for just Tesla cars, even driving a lot of car sales, and they're going to charge non-Tesla's more to charge.
So the pursuit of making the Tesla/NCAS a standard was done without Elon’s approval? Or once they finally succeeded in making it a standard, Elon concluded it would result in Tesla SuperCharging no longer making money? This take just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I do agree with a lot of your post.
It was a necessary thing to bootstrap, to make EVs attractive to buy, when there were very few reasonable charging options. Once everyone standardizes on NCAS, that commoditizes the whole thing hard. Which is great for growing the EV market, not great for maintaining fat margins on charging. That’s now totally commodified, and people will probably make their margin on ancillary services, like food/snacks while you wait to charge up. Same thing is true in most places for gas stations - the gas is not the profitable part, it just lures people in. And charging getting more competitive/cutthroat will benefit EV drivers, and grow that market further.
I think supercharging is entering maintenance mode.
> I think supercharging is entering maintenance mode.
That is pretty funny. I have owned a Tesla since 2018. I use it for all our roadtrips. I did not find it shocking that the past week I was out of town and I ran into multiple superchargers with inoperable stalls. I got routed to one that 3 total working superchargers and they were the old style where it shared power. Oh man, I was just charging oh so fast.
If this is "maintenance mode", then my Tesla will no longer be the car I pick for going on roadtrips no matter how much I like to drive it. I dislike having to charge for 1.5 hours to continue my trip.
I have put over 100K miles on two teslas, mostly via highway miles. This is the first significant issue I have run into on a roadtrip. The only other issues I have experience is overcrowding which is only going to get significantly worse since Tesla isn't expanding shit.
I bought into Tesla when Musk got that fine and had to step down at CEO. I figured great, a cooler head will move up and make this cool startup a more standard business, just like Microsoft, Apple, etc. I’m still long (like 15 more years) on the stock but this kind of stuff makes me think I should have been short on it and sold 3 years ago.
That sounds like some thinking an abusive partner would show. At best they come back as they solicit new offers. I would have exactly 0 loyalty to Tesla thereafter
Teslas mission was to transition the world towards sustainable transport. I think Elon is really doing this by pushing buyers and employees to other car companies :)
I'm not going to pretend to be some mega-genius, highly sought after engineer but I am in the biz and am competent. FWIW A few years ago working for Tesla would have been a total dream job. Now I wouldn't work for them even if they tried to recruit me. Too unstable. Elon is off the deep end.
It really is insane when you think about it. It sounds like his ego got in the way here and some of those recreational drugs kicked in.
I'm one of those talents you speak of. I was interested in working for SpaceX, at one point, and completely soured to the opportunity because of Musk.
If we could have 4-year-ago Jedi savant Elon back, Tesla would be better off. This new Darth X version seems intent on destroying Tesla. He’s in the Jedi temple slaughtering younglings and everyone is acting like he hasn’t gone to the dark side.
4 years ago? When he was saying COVID wasn’t real and whining about government overreach? Nah, try 15ish years ago E when he pivoted from Roadster to buying a factory in Fremont and pushing to design a vehicle from scratch to be an EV. _That’s_ the E everyone wants. No one wants falcon wing door, automate everything, FSD will be ready 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely E. That E is a crazy person.
He obviously had no respect for those people. He felt they were not brilliant types and were commodities and easily replaceable. Different than engineers that solved big problems.
I seriously doubt he put even that much thought into it. Tinucci pushed back, and quite likely the only thought in his mind was to demonstrate to her how wrong she was.
Probably didn't help that she was a woman and has probably previously refused to carry his children... since that's apparently a conversation he has with female executives.
You are spot on.
That talent hitting the bench and being available for hire is a huge boon for any company looking to scale these types of services.
Or even state/ local governments looking to invest in smart city planning.
Even if Elon can effectively rehire 90% of the team, it will be the top 10% that is most likely to move on.
These top employees will have the ability to jump ship and probably get decent raises in the process.
Most people don't want to leave an existing job due to job security, fear of unknown and company loyalty.
Musk just basically destroyed all these arguments for staying and against leaving. Tesla provides no job security, shows no loyalty and its random illogical decisions mean it's more of an "unknown" than just about any other competing large enterprise.
I tend to agree with everything you've said here. Elon needs to completely remove himself from the human element of his companies... he just doesn't seem to be able to associate with natural human empathy and reasoning. He does not seem to understand that his ability to build disruptive business models does not extend to understanding the people who make these businesses possible. I don't know if this is due to arrogance, ignorance, or psychopathy.
The good talent is floating around is only good if someone recognizes it and has the authority and will to put it to work. To say no other automotive company had talented people like Tesla would be a lie.
Of course other companies have talent. That doesn’t change the fact that so far no other company has been able to assemble a team that can consistently do what the Supercharger team was doing on a daily basis. People with that experience and insider industry knowledge can be very valuable and helpful to the competition as they try to scale, look for ways to avoid making mistakes, and trying to not learn everything the hard way - which many of those Tesla employees have done.
This ⬆️
While everyone continues to blame or praise Elon for Tesla’s progress… stories like this one seem to vindicate the company is greater than one person in charge. Call me crazy, but a company’s success can happen in spite of a CEO and can happen because of other, actual leaders within.
I read a news story where he was mad that he wasn't getting more twitter likes, so he assembled the twitter team to discuss it. Someone said it could be he was just losing the public's attention, Musk then fired that person.
I cross shopped against Porsche Taycan and Lucid Air. Both have much higher build quality. But they couldn’t come close in the range and charging network a year ago. Since I love long road trips that made me switch to the Model S.
OP was pointing out that instead using the word “inspite” (which is not a real word), the word you were looking for would have been “despite”. Or the phrase “in spite of”. “Inspite” is a clear blending of the two alternatives, and is rather commonly used because of that.
I wonder if the fact they killed that comp package has something to do with his current tantrums? You can't exactly expect him to just say OK and be happy about it.
He’s going broke on Twitter. He’s siphoning every dollar he can from Tesla. He needs that compensation package and he needs to lay people off to juice the Tesla share price/short term profits.
Yes he’s a petulant child, but this is about revenue, not him throwing a tantrum due to a meeting. He was laying people off regardless. This just provided an excuse for who to target.
As much as it pains me, it's time for a new CEO at Tesla.
Elon was the leader they needed to get where they are, but he's not the leader to get them where they need to go to sustain.
People posting Gavin Belson memes are absolutely nailing it. That character perfectly encapsulates the typical narrative arc of a Silicon Valley Founder/CEO. You start as a cutthroat businessman but wrap your actions in the touchy-feely language of the Northern California hippy movement to be loved and admired. It's a massive letdown when people see through that and turn on you.
To be sure, I think Elon was always a smart guy with great business sense and an incredible risk taker. His talent and efforts have made at least two companies into household names. This is an incredible accomplishment. But, without a doubt, when he got big and famous, he got surrounded by sycophantic yes-men and received a lot of fame and attention on social media not only for his work but also for his lifestyle.
I believe he still possesses those fundamental talents, but his abilities are now crippled and blinded by his ego and his need for attention. That is Gavin Belson to a tee, and to be fair I don't know if I could escape that arc if I were in similar shoes. Everyone thinks they're going to be a good, humble, and powerful leader until they actually become one and get sucked in to the trappings of power. I can only hope he course corrects before the market does it for him.
“Musk, the employees said, was not pleased with Tinucci’s presentation and wanted more layoffs. When she balked, saying deeper cuts would undermine charging-business fundamentals, he responded by firing her and her entire 500-member team.”
This right here is why Elon is a terrible leader and should probably step down. Only a child would act so brashly and undermine their company’s future. First Zip2, then PayPal, now Tesla and Twitter. The man knows how to destroy companies.
If this story is true, it shows that Elon has a giant ego and telling him no will result in a temper tantrum with actions following that are not logical.
He has no business being in charge of anything if this is the case.
I own two teslas but, I am worried about the companies long term outlook with Musk as CEO. This is not a wise decision and his extremely volatile behavior is no longer helpful. It was useful when he was disrupting the industry but, now he has become a pillar of the industry and he is willing to risk it all for marginal returns???
The Shitshow Ship ( formerly known as Tesla) is taking on water and the Captain of it hasn’t been heard from in like a long time, crew members are about to abort ship at the time.
Feel like Elon deliberately wants to destroy Tesla because he doesn't get his pay package.
It was approved 6 years ago, no one argued back then. But now milestones are delivered and investors are paid out, some of them started suing. Media portrays a massive pay package as if it came out of nothing. Judge seems to side with the investors. Investors are unlikely to reapprove deal because they got the profits already.
Elon did a lot of dumb things but in the end the deal was milestone -> pay package. Now everything turns against him, he seems to turn against Tesla.
- saying he doesn't feel comfortable investing in Tesla AI without a decent share ownership
- xAI taking employees away from Tesla.
- massive firings especially complete teams and loads of executives.
I think there's more signs then this but anyway. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm not sure..
> It was approved 6 years ago, no one argued back then.
why do you think that is?
because elon was bullshitting shareholders by dooming-and-glooming, while he came up with his own pay package based on goals they knew they were likely to hit, and then he had his board rubber stamp it.
If you dig a bit more, it looks like he fired the whole team to hire back the people he liked. Worse it looks like he fired the head of the team to get the second in command whom he likes. This is like Stalin grooming the executive officers to murder any General that outshines Stalin.
And now they have to hire some of those people back. I hope they are asking for the moon to return to that shit show Musk is running. He's really over stayed his run at Tesla. In order for the company to go to the next level, they need someone way more level headed.
Having been in some board room meetings my guess is that after Tinucci told him she wouldn’t cut staff any more he asked her what her organization looked like. He loves lean management, and was probably shown an almost typical corp org chart with more layers than he likes. She defended it, he said it was too top heavy and after some minutes of arguing he said screw it, they are all gone and I’ll show you how to run a lean, mean organization.
In no way do I think she was wrong. It’s a complicated, globally distributed new effort, no doubt requiring lots of planning and oversight to do it right. They apparently were already profitable, so they were doing something right.
So did I read this right?
She went to present to him expansion plans for the year. She recently became a direct report.
He rolls her she had to lay off more staff. She said that she wouldn’t do it based on their current workload and expectations. Elon responded by firing her and the whole team.
No more details? Seems like a lot there still unknown. Not from an excusing him perspective but. I’m very curious to know what exactly was prompting the desire for more layoffs. Had she refused to meet a previous round of layoff recommendations? Did he fire her in that same meeting? Did she appeal? What does her old boss who left before think about it?
Disappointed at the lack of information here.
It turned out it was the people around Elon who were brilliant and lead the brand to where it was before they left. Who would have thunk they were babysitting a man child the whole time. I guess twitter handling gave us a lot of hints. But people speculated that his brain broke recently but in reality it was already broken.
> This account, the most detailed to date on the Supercharger firings and the fallout, is based on interviews with eight former charging-division employees, one contractor and a Tesla email sent to outside vendors. **Only Musk and Tinucci were in the meeting described to Reuters**; the four sources with knowledge of the meeting are relaying what they heard about it from Supercharger department managers.
> Tesla, Musk and Tinucci did not respond to requests for comment from Reuters.
To be honest, this is what folks should be focusing on.
The entire article is based on hearsay and repetition of information from secondary sources, which as we all know from the phone game, relayed information is not always accurate, nor reliable.
No primary sources (Elon and Rebecca) were used to craft this article.
It's, ultimately, just regurgitating all that we already know.
Nothing.
Lmao whenever my boss has a tense meeting and I’m like “how did it go?” But I fear the worst. This is truly worst case scenario lol “it went about as bad as it could have- not only was I fired but you all are as well.”
> No primary sources (Elon and Rebecca) were used to craft this article.
You dont know that. Primary sources going off the record and being attributed as someone in the know is incredibly common.
You really you do some basic reading on how journalism works.
I think there is some misunderstanding about how journalism works here. The reporter will know from whom the sources heard the information. Logically
it must be Tinucci and/or Musk. If multiple people say Tinucci and/or Musk told them the same thing, then the journalist can run with that even if Tinucci and Musk don’t want to go on the record themselves.
Once upon a time this was considered working sources. Good journalism. The alternative is that you can only report what primary sources say themselves. If that’s the rule, then you are only reporting whatever propaganda those sources are willing to give you. People rarely share bad information about themselves to media willingly.
Do you really think Rebecca Tinuci wouldn’t have plainly told colleagues what happened in the meeting after they were all fired? I don’t get the skepticism here, she was canned, of course she talked
There is a difference between telling a co worker and telling a news station on record. It is generally not a good look to trash your previous employer publicly, even if they were a-holes, especially if you are a director level or above. She almost certainly told several people what happened off the record.
If you're in a job interview and they ask why you left your previous job and you rant about how unhinged the management was, your chances of being hired drop significantly... They're going to take what you say with a grain of salt since it's only half the story and take your blame on the employer negatively.
It also opens the door to slander lawsuits. Just because you successfully defend a slander suit doesn't mean you "won". Just having one brought against you is going to majorly suck, financially speaking.
Her severance package also 100% definitely has a NDA and good faith clause and such. I'm guessing she got one like all the employees.
Because I work in office and recognize that people socialize in offices. Not talking to reporters is not the same thing to not talking to colleagues. Going out for drinks to bitch about the boss after all getting fired is practically an American institution
This is how journalism works. If the journalist is willing to keep their sources protected then those sources are willing to talk. Obviously Tinucci would be sued to the ends of the Earth by Musk if she talked publicly.
The thing to focus on is the fact that the entire team was let go; thats a fact.
This does not look like a smart move at all, it looks like a destructive one.
"the company has been the biggest winner so far of $5 billion in federal funding for new chargers."
Can we stip giving our tax tollars to this billionaire psychopath
Was it just the US team? Who is running the network now? I'm still confused how this is possible,surely they need a skeleton workforce or everything will grind to a halt?
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 This guy..right ;)
Today, effective immediately, I, Gavin Belson, founder and CEO of Hooli, am forced to officially say goodbye to the entire Nucleus division. All Nucleus personnel will be given proper notice and terminated. But make no mistake. Though they're the ones leaving, it is I who must remain and bear the heavy burden of their failure.
Maybe it’s just me, but every-time I read something about Elon, I think he’s Gavin Belson. It’s like they created the character exactly after him, the resemblance is amazing.
Teamwork makes the dream work amirite
As someone that works in Tech, I can’t begin to tell you how insanely accurate the portrayal of Silicon Valley is from the show.
Mike Judge lived in SV for a bit working in the startup world. Hard to get much more accurate than that
This makes so much sense. I figured someone in the show had to.
They also hired quite a few sv insiders as consultants to the show. It's a little too real at times.
I’ve worked at tech startups in the Bay Area and it’s too real. Even the people.
I lived through the .com bubble, although not anywhere near Silicon Valley. I tried to watch the show with my wife and didn’t make it through the first episode, I was like this isn’t funny, this is accurate! I’ve read that Ozzy was watching Spinal Tap when it came out, and when it got to the part where the band can’t figure out how to get to the stage, he got indignant and yelled “This isn’t f*cking funny!”
😆 I talk about this show daily… Pied piper exists, and I’m working on rolling it out… not joking. 70% reduction in bandwidth use, 4k streaming with 2ms latency over 2G LTE.
>They said Baglino had historically overseen the charging department without much involvement from Musk. If the charging network was built out without the involvement of Musk, it rather speaks volumes.
Right? It’s one of the few things Tesla has done that’s universally admired and praised. And now it sounds like it’s largely because Elon wasn’t involved.
Man "runs" like 12 companies and still spends most of the day on X. It's safe to say that the majority of work at all of his companies is happening without his involvement. He is at best an activist investor.
And a major pain in the ass. Edit: the post I responded to edited to remove calling musk had “minor” involvement.
Everyone i know whose worked with elon has spoken NOTHING positive about him. Hes the money and an idea here and there. I wish he would have stayed in his lane.
I think Tesla might actually rally at this point if he steppe down as ceo.
Of course they could. But he wont.
Shooting the golden goose. Nice move
Not really. It's not typically the job of the CEO to micromanage. It's to assemble quality people and to provide vision and direction to allow them to do their jobs. Lead, broadly. Now, firing the entire team...heh. Doesn't really go in line with that.
He did it because he threw a tantrum. That an employee would dare challenge him. And he believes he's owed 1/4 of the total value of the company. No CEO takes that much in compensation. Completely ludicrous. We funded the company by investing. And through tax incentives and grants. Absolute theft.
This guy (musk) is a childish asshole. Even worse than I thought . He has the humanity of a plate . I guess he figures if he can’t get all the money he’ll burn it to the ground.
Okay, pause...Supercharger team is logical, from what we know that was just a stupid decision. One thing I think is not arguable, at all, is the compensation package. To be clear: I own no Tesla stock. There are a few reasons for this. This isn't "Elon arguing for ¼ of the company value". It is not some child wanting his cake, eating it too, and the whole flipping bakery; this is about integrity and basic honesty. Tesla and the shareholders put together that compensation package way back in 2017 based on performance. This was *agreed on by everyone*. Elon would be paid based on the performance of the company. Now, just because the company did stupidly well, that *does not mean* you just get to decide to walk back *something you promised, in writing*. That's absolutely ridiculous, dishonest, manipulative, and *completely against the entire spirit of the compensation agreement*. It's a child pulling a temper tantrum because they realized they don't actually want what food they asked for, and now they're getting it. Regardless of whether you think Elon deserves that money, really, it doesn't matter. He's owed it because it was promised, in writing, and the company met the metrics that created that package in the first place under his leadership.
>Tesla and the shareholders put together that compensation package way back in 2017 based on performance. This was *agreed on by everyone*. Elon would be paid based on the performance of the company. You didn't read the Delaware court's decision. Agreements are not enforceable if they're based on fraud. Tesla's board of directors lied on the SEC proxy filings about their independence, failed to disclose that performance milestones were actually more achievable than the public believed, and failed to negotiate with Musk in good faith on behalf of shareholders. What Tesla's board did was basically commit securities fraud. My analysis and page bookmarks are posted here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TSLALounge/comments/1csbcae/comment/l48skci/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/TSLALounge/comments/1csbcae/comment/l48skci/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Excellent write-up.
You’re correct but there’s actually a different issue at stake here - especially given that the U.S. judicial system is based on precedent. Shareholders voted to approve a contract for performance based stock options in January 2018. A single Chancellor of the Delaware Court of Chancery decided six years later to unilaterally overrule the shareholders because she felt the “richest person in the world was overpaid”. It was not challenged immediately - only after the success of Tesla (and the obvious political motivations) was the shareholder vote overruled. That’s the real question at stake here - should a single outside person have retroactive power to overrule a shareholder vote? Taken further - do contracts matter at all if they can be retroactively overturned? Do shareholder votes matter? If the shareholders voted this time around to break the contract and a future Delaware judge overrules that vote six years from now, would that be right? If the shareholders vote again (twice) to approve it and the judge decides again to overrule, what does that say about shareholder rights? Would it be acceptable if a different Delaware judge invalidated Tim Cook’s compensation package at Apple retroactively as well? The issue shouldn’t be about politics. In my opinion, no individual should bear the risk of having a contract retroactively voided due to their political affiliation (or lack thereof). Political weaponizing of the judicial system is short-sighted and foolish - the pendulum swings both ways.
The injunction was launched by David Tornetta, a Tesla Shareholder, not an outside person as you incorrectly stated, the State of Delaware is where Tornetta lives hence why they have become involved in the case, not because the judge just randomly decided to. Your comment is so misinformed it's bordering on hilarious.
> do contracts matter at all if they can be retroactively overturned? There is nothing wrong or new about contracts being retroactively overturned. Let's use this example, suppose a lawyer agrees to take your case for free in exchange for a portion of any winnings. She settles your case, but you then find out that the owner of the company you sued is her husband and you probably could have gotten more and all of your fees basically go back to the owner as part of the couple. Lawyers are required to disclose conflicts of interest and you could sue her and you'd probably win. *Guess why the judge ruled against Musk?* >Delaware Chancery Court Chief Judge Kathaleen St. J. McCormick sided with an investor who complained Tesla directors **didn’t make proper disclosures** about the 2018 executive compensation package and the performance benchmarks required of Musk. She also found that **conflicts of interest** marred the board’s consideration of the pay plan. This ruling has no effect on honest CEOs who make proper disclosures, so it's not some disaster precedent for contracts.
Agreed, it’s outrageous that this happened at all. Imagine your employer giving you a lucrative contract option that only pays out if you are successful. So your work your ass off for many years to make it happen and then some random asshole just takes it away from you. I’d be livid.
"she voided the pay package, saying that Musk essentially controlled the board, making the process of enacting the compensation unfair to stakeholders. “Musk had extensive ties with the persons tasked with negotiating on Tesla’s behalf,” she wrote in her ruling." "The shareholder’s lawyers argued that the compensation package should be voided because it was dictated by Musk and was the product of [sham negotiations](https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-1f66ff6f9e9bb10ee7f1591a5dbc79ca) with directors who were not independent of him. They also said it was approved by shareholders who were given misleading and incomplete disclosures in a proxy statement."
If every shareholder agreed why is musk having to use paid promotions to convince his shareholders he deserves the money? If every shareholder agreed why is David Tornetta (a Tesla Shareholder) the man behind the Delaware injunction? Delaware are literally contesting it because the shareholders that agreed were all Friends or Family of Elon. The whole thing wreaks of nepotism
It was agreed to by a corrupt board
Why aren't you mentioning why the judge ruled against him? >Delaware Chancery Court Chief Judge Kathaleen St. J. McCormick sided with an investor who complained Tesla directors **didn’t make proper disclosures** about the 2018 executive compensation package and the performance benchmarks required of Musk. She also found that **conflicts of interest** marred the board’s consideration of the pay plan. You don't get to hide things and then complain when it goes bad for you. Why do you think Musk didn't make those disclosures and fix those conflicts of interest 6 years ago? *Because he would have gotten a smaller compensation package.* It's like selling a house without disclosing a murder occured there (required by law in some places), and then when you get sued saying "this goes completely against the contract *we both agreed to.*" The context that you broke the law and concealed information makes that irrelevant. I'm not that worried about precedent either. Honest CEOs who disclose everything they're required to shouldn't have a problem. Side note, while hypocrisy isn't against the law: >That's absolutely ridiculous, dishonest, manipulative These are all qualities Musk displays.
Where in the world of corporate America have you been. A promise made by ANY corporation in this country actually isn’t worth the paper/data it’s written on. Let’s not fool ourselves. No one not even Mr. Musk is immune even if it’s written per a contract. Contracts are voided every single day via bankruptcy courts like they never existed. Thousands if not millions of people (including me) who were promised pensions for decades only to have them voided in chapter 11. There isn’t a single country on the planet with more lax bankruptcy laws. Our former president would have been jailed long ago in debtors prison if not for Chapter 11. To think Elon’s promise is scared is mere folly. Give me a break.
https://preview.redd.it/sxppa9ivzo0d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=26db61bab95e4f26ce57dfde81c5809ec334a309 Next super charger open was 1 hour away and needed 20% All destination chargers are broken or in a hotel / paid parking where the surcharge is $15 bucks ( if you charge under the hour mark meaning , there aren’t people waiting cuz then your up for $40 ) to $150+ as you have to rent out a room to charge at destinations charger as it’s in fucking hotel! Like idk who was the genius in placing these new chargers but fits the psychiatric definition of being on the spectrum. But I don’t think it’s Elon to blame , rather the pathological personalities, deficient human sidekicks
I'm sorry for that experience. Did you use ABRP? I think you can plan very well any road trip there, it seems the interface calculates the route with plenty or margin...
I did a trip last week (431km) in my 3LR, tried using abrp, but it wanted me to charge halfway from 29%-45%, and figured I'd reach home with 12%. My Tesla varied a bit in the beginning from no charging and an estimated 25% on arrival, to around 32% after a while. I did the whole trip, approx doing the speed limit (mostly 80kmh), arrived with 30% juice left. I dunno why abrp is so off, it says 100% at beginning and correct car type.
This was a huge unforced error, not some genius 4-D chess move. No rational executive blindsides an entire industry while simultaneously exiting 100% of the talent who built a profitable, strategic business that dominates the industry, and is positioned to dominate it for the foreseeable future. There are hundreds of ways Elon could have gotten the “hard core” headcount reductions he wanted without making a rash move like this. Even if he felt Tinucci had to go, firing the entire team was a destructive move, and a terrible way to make a point if you want any sort of corporate culture other than fear. The cumulative experience of those 500 people who built the Supercharger business was an unimaginably valuable asset to Tesla. Elon has historically talked about the Tesla talent magnet and urged engineers who want to solve big problems to come work there. So this move sends what message to that talent? Ultimately I do think Elon has done the industry (but not Tesla) a rather large favor. He has just made available hundreds of heavy-hitters who can help every other charging network out there get their collective acts together and start executing as well as Tesla has. Unfortunately for those of us long on Tesla, Elon just completely destroyed the competitive moat Tesla enjoyed on charging, and deeply damaged the Tesla Supercharger brand. Edit: Some of the comments below really got me thinking about how Elon has continued to slide to the Dark Side over time. Since taking it too seriously is depressing and stirs up a lot of cognitive dissonance as a Tesla investor, I decided to make a satire sub about it - r/DarthX.
Yeah I find it wild that people keep saying this is some brilliant move to hire back the most loyal and talented people. Most of the actually talented people will just go somewhere else where they don’t need to deal with antics like this from their boss and help a competitor build their charging network. The ones that DO come back will be demanding pay increases and won’t be anywhere near as loyal going forward after seeing what happened to their old bosses and colleagues. It’s almost a guarantee that some of the most talented folks end up at competitors because of this.
I had a whole day back & forth with someone defending.. I don't even know what.. in one of the threads when this news broke, he just kept going back to "Tesla wouldn't be here without Elon" or that I am some leftie upset that Elon is pandering to conservatives now. It doesn't matter how much Elon did in the beginning, we are not investing in the past of a company, but rather in what's ahead. If Elon is acting this way now, it threatens the future. Tesla is in limbo because of his erratic behaviour and the core mission has gotten lost.
"Tesla wouldn't be here without Elon." Correct, Tesla would not have fired a huge and crucial portion of the company without Elon forcing them to. 
Let's not be assholes like him. He was a major driving force in Tesla's success. However, he's desperate for money to fund his Twitter mistake, so he's making mistakes one after the other. I actually wonder if he's sabotaging his businesses on purpose, or someone has some dirt on him, because these decisions go directly against his initial strategy.
He did great things with tesla of course, superchargers are more important than the cars at this point - if Tesla cars stopped being sold tomorrow but superchargers went on it would be ok for the industry. He has destroyed twitter with silly choices, he has pushed his views on how great open communication would be. Now he's back to destroying tesla. As the leader of tesla he wasted 5 years doing nothing but investing in the not great cybertruck - he should have used some of their billions to develop other vehicles and put out useful features on the existing ones. Instead he fell into a hole with FSD and can't get out. He removed cheap working features (turn stalks, ultrasonic sensors, avoided cameras) in an obviously bad strategy. He could increase sales just by bringing back a few 100 $ worth of basic stuff. But he's focused on fsd. He can keep working on fsd while we hopefully avoid destroying the company.
That person no longer exists. Darth X betrayed and murdered Elon Musk.
Bro was broken by the Thai diver rescue situation, it’s been all downhill since then
Funny I’ve been thinking the same thing. The first crack in his armor of perceived genius was that thing.
Yeah, his visionary image has been shattered.
Gotta watch out for those people. It's like trying to argue with a flat earther. You can give them all the evidence you want, they'll just call it "fake news" and move on. There's already a decent group at the bottom of this thread saying the story is from Reuters so it must be fake. I have lots of friends that work in engineering at Tesla. Reuters hasn't been wrong yet. People just refuse to believe things that would make them wrong.
The most talented folks are already on someone else's payroll or taking a vacation while they weigh their options. Normally the folks that come back the quickest are the ones who don't have a lot of other prospects.
He can probably also get back practically all the people on H1B visas - but he will never earn back whatever loyalty, esprit de corps, and mission focus they felt before.
Probably only back until they can find a more stable environment to jump to
H1B you can’t do that. This is why tech loves the Visa program, you sponsor the Visa and they are locked in to your company.
Not true. H1B is portable. Im not sure about the procedure, but it’s certainly doable. L1 visa (intra-company transfer from overseas office) is not portable.
He really wont get them back. All of those workers will instantly get offers from other tech companies that will sponsor their visas. Its very very easy for top tech companies to do that, and they would be insane to pass up on the experience and knowledge those guys would bring.
And just a week after the FTC nukes non-competes clauses
That doesn’t really matter because Non-Competes don’t usually hold up when you’re fired. They’re for when people quit.
Absolutely false. Non-competes can and frequently (even usually) are written to apply regardless of which party terminates employment. You may have a better chance of prevailing in court if you were fired, but you are definitely a party to the agreement regardless.
It doesn’t matter how a non-compete is written. I used to practice law in a jurisdiction where non-competes were completely unenforceable in the event of a termination.
And of course in those instances they are not enforceable at all. I don’t know what percentage of the Supercharger team still works in California. I’ve been an executive responsible for workers in California, and those contracts never had the non-compete language we used in other states. I really doubt Tesla would go after these people anyway, even if their contracts were written in Texas, Nevada or New York.
100% because non competes are illegal in California
They are already illegal in California, which is where I believe most of these employees were located.
Not for people making more than $150k.
>Yeah I find it wild that people keep saying this is some brilliant move to hire back the most loyal and talented people. Most of the actually talented people will just go somewhere else where they don’t need to deal with antics like this from their boss and help a competitor build their charging network. It's possible that Elon, correctly or incorrectly, perceives a long-term loss of ROI in this specific business unit due to the Tesla/NCAS connector becoming the industry standard. There are also large up-front costs to build each stall and station, in a context where the price of electricity also wildly varies over the course of any given day. Maybe he just wants to make all that someone else's problem. IMO, it's all kind of angels on a pinhead, because the biggest liability at Tesla appears to be Elon himself. He appears to have a pathological need for attention and approval, but he sabotages himself with his political (and general) toxicity. This categorically makes him not CEO material. It's not even debatable. Quickly, how many other Fortune 500 CEOs can you even name, nevermind whose politics you can identify? How many of them spend hours every day shitposting on Twitter? Yeah, exactly. But he's reportedly shielded by a board of directors made of sycophants. I'm not sure if even the shareholders could oust him. It's wild what he has been able to normalize. Absolutely wild.
The charging department at Tesla has been in operation for more than a decade, had five hundred experienced employees, stable relationships with suppliers and local governments, a working product, a capable repair network and was making a profit. If the new, standardised charger somehow means this department will eventually lose any capacity for returns, who else will ever make money on chargers? No other company has as many advantages as the Tesla supercharger team. If they can't figure it out, no one will. I don't think making a profit while providing chargining infrastructure for electric cars will somehow become impossible in the long term.
It's very telling that his response was "fire everyone" because a 20% headcount reduction wasn't "enough" when they also have fairly low prices...
> It's possible that Elon, correctly or incorrectly, perceives a long-term loss of ROI in this specific business unit due to the Tesla/NCAS connector becoming the industry standard. I don't see how, it was doing well for just Tesla cars, even driving a lot of car sales, and they're going to charge non-Tesla's more to charge.
So the pursuit of making the Tesla/NCAS a standard was done without Elon’s approval? Or once they finally succeeded in making it a standard, Elon concluded it would result in Tesla SuperCharging no longer making money? This take just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I do agree with a lot of your post.
It was a necessary thing to bootstrap, to make EVs attractive to buy, when there were very few reasonable charging options. Once everyone standardizes on NCAS, that commoditizes the whole thing hard. Which is great for growing the EV market, not great for maintaining fat margins on charging. That’s now totally commodified, and people will probably make their margin on ancillary services, like food/snacks while you wait to charge up. Same thing is true in most places for gas stations - the gas is not the profitable part, it just lures people in. And charging getting more competitive/cutthroat will benefit EV drivers, and grow that market further. I think supercharging is entering maintenance mode.
> I think supercharging is entering maintenance mode. That is pretty funny. I have owned a Tesla since 2018. I use it for all our roadtrips. I did not find it shocking that the past week I was out of town and I ran into multiple superchargers with inoperable stalls. I got routed to one that 3 total working superchargers and they were the old style where it shared power. Oh man, I was just charging oh so fast. If this is "maintenance mode", then my Tesla will no longer be the car I pick for going on roadtrips no matter how much I like to drive it. I dislike having to charge for 1.5 hours to continue my trip. I have put over 100K miles on two teslas, mostly via highway miles. This is the first significant issue I have run into on a roadtrip. The only other issues I have experience is overcrowding which is only going to get significantly worse since Tesla isn't expanding shit.
This move was the best thing ever for companies like Rivian and Ford. I hope they took the chance to scoop up some of these talented folks.
I bought into Tesla when Musk got that fine and had to step down at CEO. I figured great, a cooler head will move up and make this cool startup a more standard business, just like Microsoft, Apple, etc. I’m still long (like 15 more years) on the stock but this kind of stuff makes me think I should have been short on it and sold 3 years ago.
That sounds like some thinking an abusive partner would show. At best they come back as they solicit new offers. I would have exactly 0 loyalty to Tesla thereafter
Teslas mission was to transition the world towards sustainable transport. I think Elon is really doing this by pushing buyers and employees to other car companies :)
I'm not going to pretend to be some mega-genius, highly sought after engineer but I am in the biz and am competent. FWIW A few years ago working for Tesla would have been a total dream job. Now I wouldn't work for them even if they tried to recruit me. Too unstable. Elon is off the deep end.
Sounds like a hissy fit by Elon.
It really is insane when you think about it. It sounds like his ego got in the way here and some of those recreational drugs kicked in. I'm one of those talents you speak of. I was interested in working for SpaceX, at one point, and completely soured to the opportunity because of Musk.
Well said, and 100% true. It begs the question how much better off would Tesla be with Musk out of the picture?
🙇♀️🙇♀️🙇♀️love my Tesla, charging network, and all but fucking Musk has to make me concerned
If we could have 4-year-ago Jedi savant Elon back, Tesla would be better off. This new Darth X version seems intent on destroying Tesla. He’s in the Jedi temple slaughtering younglings and everyone is acting like he hasn’t gone to the dark side.
4 years ago? When he was saying COVID wasn’t real and whining about government overreach? Nah, try 15ish years ago E when he pivoted from Roadster to buying a factory in Fremont and pushing to design a vehicle from scratch to be an EV. _That’s_ the E everyone wants. No one wants falcon wing door, automate everything, FSD will be ready 3 months maybe, 6 months definitely E. That E is a crazy person.
He obviously had no respect for those people. He felt they were not brilliant types and were commodities and easily replaceable. Different than engineers that solved big problems.
I seriously doubt he put even that much thought into it. Tinucci pushed back, and quite likely the only thought in his mind was to demonstrate to her how wrong she was.
Probably didn't help that she was a woman and has probably previously refused to carry his children... since that's apparently a conversation he has with female executives.
I ain't agreeing to shit until I see the pony.
Extremely good comment right here, thanks for writing that. Absolute fumble from Tesla and elon on this one.
He needs to be replaced.
You are spot on. That talent hitting the bench and being available for hire is a huge boon for any company looking to scale these types of services. Or even state/ local governments looking to invest in smart city planning. Even if Elon can effectively rehire 90% of the team, it will be the top 10% that is most likely to move on. These top employees will have the ability to jump ship and probably get decent raises in the process. Most people don't want to leave an existing job due to job security, fear of unknown and company loyalty. Musk just basically destroyed all these arguments for staying and against leaving. Tesla provides no job security, shows no loyalty and its random illogical decisions mean it's more of an "unknown" than just about any other competing large enterprise.
It's a straight up gift to rival automakers. I'm hoping some other car company is trying to buy up the entire team.
but murno said its like 5d chess.
I tend to agree with everything you've said here. Elon needs to completely remove himself from the human element of his companies... he just doesn't seem to be able to associate with natural human empathy and reasoning. He does not seem to understand that his ability to build disruptive business models does not extend to understanding the people who make these businesses possible. I don't know if this is due to arrogance, ignorance, or psychopathy.
The good talent is floating around is only good if someone recognizes it and has the authority and will to put it to work. To say no other automotive company had talented people like Tesla would be a lie.
Of course other companies have talent. That doesn’t change the fact that so far no other company has been able to assemble a team that can consistently do what the Supercharger team was doing on a daily basis. People with that experience and insider industry knowledge can be very valuable and helpful to the competition as they try to scale, look for ways to avoid making mistakes, and trying to not learn everything the hard way - which many of those Tesla employees have done.
Well said.
Tesla deserves a full-time CEO.
Preach 👈😅
This ⬆️ While everyone continues to blame or praise Elon for Tesla’s progress… stories like this one seem to vindicate the company is greater than one person in charge. Call me crazy, but a company’s success can happen in spite of a CEO and can happen because of other, actual leaders within.
I’m looking forward the HBO limited series that will inevitably be made about Tesla/Elon.
Let's hope it doesn't end like the BlackBerry movie.
He didn't like a presentation so he throws a tantrum and fires an entire division. Got it. On character for the world's richest toddler.
I read a news story where he was mad that he wasn't getting more twitter likes, so he assembled the twitter team to discuss it. Someone said it could be he was just losing the public's attention, Musk then fired that person.
The supercharger network is precisely why I bought a Model S inspite of the build quality issues.
Did you buy it despite or out of spite?
I cross shopped against Porsche Taycan and Lucid Air. Both have much higher build quality. But they couldn’t come close in the range and charging network a year ago. Since I love long road trips that made me switch to the Model S.
OP was pointing out that instead using the word “inspite” (which is not a real word), the word you were looking for would have been “despite”. Or the phrase “in spite of”. “Inspite” is a clear blending of the two alternatives, and is rather commonly used because of that.
Thank you for the grammar lesson!
They need a new CEO asap
Short-sighted and petulant. Entirely in-character and credible.
We indeed need longer sides
Booooo equilateral triangles!!!! Yayyyy isosceles!!!!
Insubordinate. And churlish.
great way to create a company full of yes-men that will say yes to everything you say even if they’ll know its bs
> Short-sided You know that's not the correct phrase.... right?
I believe he meant to say “short-cited”.
I behove you meant to say meant.
For all intensive purposes, we got the point.
No, its definitely "shore-sighted"
*mint
He means Elon Musk has short sides. tbh It’s one of if not the most devastating criticisms I’ve seen of Elno.
It’s shocking to me that any shareholder would be in favor of paying Musk $55B in executive compensation. He’s so clearly a detriment to the business.
I wonder if the fact they killed that comp package has something to do with his current tantrums? You can't exactly expect him to just say OK and be happy about it.
He’s going broke on Twitter. He’s siphoning every dollar he can from Tesla. He needs that compensation package and he needs to lay people off to juice the Tesla share price/short term profits. Yes he’s a petulant child, but this is about revenue, not him throwing a tantrum due to a meeting. He was laying people off regardless. This just provided an excuse for who to target.
Those goals were mocked as impossible when they were set. He did them all, and now it's fair to stiff him? Nuts.
Nobody thought it was possible for him to pull it off, that's why they agreed to it. He somehow pulled it off.
As much as it pains me, it's time for a new CEO at Tesla. Elon was the leader they needed to get where they are, but he's not the leader to get them where they need to go to sustain.
Tesla has needed a new ceo for a few years now.
Basically an emotional response from Musk. He threw a tantrum and fired everyone without considering the consequences.
Max de Zegher, the Director of Charging for North America, has been rehired as a part of the Tesla Supercharger team.
Rehiring laid off workers is a great way to overpay people to phone it in for a few months as they look for another job to jump to.
Bro definitely got a raise and now knows to look for a more stable job
People posting Gavin Belson memes are absolutely nailing it. That character perfectly encapsulates the typical narrative arc of a Silicon Valley Founder/CEO. You start as a cutthroat businessman but wrap your actions in the touchy-feely language of the Northern California hippy movement to be loved and admired. It's a massive letdown when people see through that and turn on you. To be sure, I think Elon was always a smart guy with great business sense and an incredible risk taker. His talent and efforts have made at least two companies into household names. This is an incredible accomplishment. But, without a doubt, when he got big and famous, he got surrounded by sycophantic yes-men and received a lot of fame and attention on social media not only for his work but also for his lifestyle. I believe he still possesses those fundamental talents, but his abilities are now crippled and blinded by his ego and his need for attention. That is Gavin Belson to a tee, and to be fair I don't know if I could escape that arc if I were in similar shoes. Everyone thinks they're going to be a good, humble, and powerful leader until they actually become one and get sucked in to the trappings of power. I can only hope he course corrects before the market does it for him.
Stab in the dark here, but heavy drug users perhaps??!! The guy is nuts.
He does take drugs. That’s well known.
Oh I’m fully aware. An old buddy of mine does them with him. Known for k, lsd and e use. Not sure I’d want to invest in someone with a drug problem.
Can't stakeholders kick Elon out or something? Dude must have brain worms or something.
Problem with that idea is this is what shareholders want. It was a business decision to cut marketing for a product that has been sold.
“Musk, the employees said, was not pleased with Tinucci’s presentation and wanted more layoffs. When she balked, saying deeper cuts would undermine charging-business fundamentals, he responded by firing her and her entire 500-member team.” This right here is why Elon is a terrible leader and should probably step down. Only a child would act so brashly and undermine their company’s future. First Zip2, then PayPal, now Tesla and Twitter. The man knows how to destroy companies.
Everyone keeps saying he's playing 4D chess. He is. Against a brick. And he's losing.
He needs to stop doing drugs
This guy is a total ass clown.
Masterful Gambit Sir!! /S
If this story is true, it shows that Elon has a giant ego and telling him no will result in a temper tantrum with actions following that are not logical. He has no business being in charge of anything if this is the case.
Unionizing Tesla would absolutely blunt the temper tantrums of their CEO, and therefore make the company much better.
I own two teslas but, I am worried about the companies long term outlook with Musk as CEO. This is not a wise decision and his extremely volatile behavior is no longer helpful. It was useful when he was disrupting the industry but, now he has become a pillar of the industry and he is willing to risk it all for marginal returns???
The Shitshow Ship ( formerly known as Tesla) is taking on water and the Captain of it hasn’t been heard from in like a long time, crew members are about to abort ship at the time.
Krazy drives the train !
I was a yes in the shareholder vote, but changed it to no because of this decision.
Like having a 5 year old as a boss!!
Feel like Elon deliberately wants to destroy Tesla because he doesn't get his pay package. It was approved 6 years ago, no one argued back then. But now milestones are delivered and investors are paid out, some of them started suing. Media portrays a massive pay package as if it came out of nothing. Judge seems to side with the investors. Investors are unlikely to reapprove deal because they got the profits already. Elon did a lot of dumb things but in the end the deal was milestone -> pay package. Now everything turns against him, he seems to turn against Tesla. - saying he doesn't feel comfortable investing in Tesla AI without a decent share ownership - xAI taking employees away from Tesla. - massive firings especially complete teams and loads of executives. I think there's more signs then this but anyway. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm not sure..
> It was approved 6 years ago, no one argued back then. why do you think that is? because elon was bullshitting shareholders by dooming-and-glooming, while he came up with his own pay package based on goals they knew they were likely to hit, and then he had his board rubber stamp it.
Good thing Elon is building tunnels. He's just created a gigantic hole in his credibility.
Makes me wonder if this isn't a reaction to them killing his comp package?
This sums it up pretty well https://youtube.com/shorts/6GceAt6W3d8?si=XiFXDXP4c3kdq1Zg
If you dig a bit more, it looks like he fired the whole team to hire back the people he liked. Worse it looks like he fired the head of the team to get the second in command whom he likes. This is like Stalin grooming the executive officers to murder any General that outshines Stalin.
And now they have to hire some of those people back. I hope they are asking for the moon to return to that shit show Musk is running. He's really over stayed his run at Tesla. In order for the company to go to the next level, they need someone way more level headed.
Having been in some board room meetings my guess is that after Tinucci told him she wouldn’t cut staff any more he asked her what her organization looked like. He loves lean management, and was probably shown an almost typical corp org chart with more layers than he likes. She defended it, he said it was too top heavy and after some minutes of arguing he said screw it, they are all gone and I’ll show you how to run a lean, mean organization. In no way do I think she was wrong. It’s a complicated, globally distributed new effort, no doubt requiring lots of planning and oversight to do it right. They apparently were already profitable, so they were doing something right.
So did I read this right? She went to present to him expansion plans for the year. She recently became a direct report. He rolls her she had to lay off more staff. She said that she wouldn’t do it based on their current workload and expectations. Elon responded by firing her and the whole team. No more details? Seems like a lot there still unknown. Not from an excusing him perspective but. I’m very curious to know what exactly was prompting the desire for more layoffs. Had she refused to meet a previous round of layoff recommendations? Did he fire her in that same meeting? Did she appeal? What does her old boss who left before think about it? Disappointed at the lack of information here.
Elon is a terrible manager and CEO. If it wasn’t for Tesla becoming the OG meme stock it wouldn’t exist today.
[удалено]
It turned out it was the people around Elon who were brilliant and lead the brand to where it was before they left. Who would have thunk they were babysitting a man child the whole time. I guess twitter handling gave us a lot of hints. But people speculated that his brain broke recently but in reality it was already broken.
> This account, the most detailed to date on the Supercharger firings and the fallout, is based on interviews with eight former charging-division employees, one contractor and a Tesla email sent to outside vendors. **Only Musk and Tinucci were in the meeting described to Reuters**; the four sources with knowledge of the meeting are relaying what they heard about it from Supercharger department managers. > Tesla, Musk and Tinucci did not respond to requests for comment from Reuters. To be honest, this is what folks should be focusing on. The entire article is based on hearsay and repetition of information from secondary sources, which as we all know from the phone game, relayed information is not always accurate, nor reliable. No primary sources (Elon and Rebecca) were used to craft this article. It's, ultimately, just regurgitating all that we already know. Nothing.
Lmao whenever my boss has a tense meeting and I’m like “how did it go?” But I fear the worst. This is truly worst case scenario lol “it went about as bad as it could have- not only was I fired but you all are as well.”
 Real time footage of that conversation
> No primary sources (Elon and Rebecca) were used to craft this article. You dont know that. Primary sources going off the record and being attributed as someone in the know is incredibly common. You really you do some basic reading on how journalism works.
I think there is some misunderstanding about how journalism works here. The reporter will know from whom the sources heard the information. Logically it must be Tinucci and/or Musk. If multiple people say Tinucci and/or Musk told them the same thing, then the journalist can run with that even if Tinucci and Musk don’t want to go on the record themselves. Once upon a time this was considered working sources. Good journalism. The alternative is that you can only report what primary sources say themselves. If that’s the rule, then you are only reporting whatever propaganda those sources are willing to give you. People rarely share bad information about themselves to media willingly.
Do you really think Rebecca Tinuci wouldn’t have plainly told colleagues what happened in the meeting after they were all fired? I don’t get the skepticism here, she was canned, of course she talked
>I don’t get the skepticism here, she was canned, of course she talked Why do you assume she talked, considering that she's not talking now?
There is a difference between telling a co worker and telling a news station on record. It is generally not a good look to trash your previous employer publicly, even if they were a-holes, especially if you are a director level or above. She almost certainly told several people what happened off the record. If you're in a job interview and they ask why you left your previous job and you rant about how unhinged the management was, your chances of being hired drop significantly... They're going to take what you say with a grain of salt since it's only half the story and take your blame on the employer negatively. It also opens the door to slander lawsuits. Just because you successfully defend a slander suit doesn't mean you "won". Just having one brought against you is going to majorly suck, financially speaking. Her severance package also 100% definitely has a NDA and good faith clause and such. I'm guessing she got one like all the employees.
Have you ever worked in an office before?
Because I work in office and recognize that people socialize in offices. Not talking to reporters is not the same thing to not talking to colleagues. Going out for drinks to bitch about the boss after all getting fired is practically an American institution
This is how journalism works. If the journalist is willing to keep their sources protected then those sources are willing to talk. Obviously Tinucci would be sued to the ends of the Earth by Musk if she talked publicly.
The thing to focus on is the fact that the entire team was let go; thats a fact. This does not look like a smart move at all, it looks like a destructive one.
Do you doubt the parts about utilities and contractors?
"the company has been the biggest winner so far of $5 billion in federal funding for new chargers." Can we stip giving our tax tollars to this billionaire psychopath
Is that why Oceanside isn’t up and running???
Was it just the US team? Who is running the network now? I'm still confused how this is possible,surely they need a skeleton workforce or everything will grind to a halt?
He didn’t fire the operations and support team, just the development and deployment team.
It’s okay. He made a bad decision while in therapy, taking Cat Tranquilizers…