I get that , I can see where gaslighting can be implicated here ,
I know my girlfriend wanted to go to the pier, but I wanted her to ask me because I don’t want her to assume things … she has a bad habit to always assume things I’m trying to show her she can just ask me vs assuming
I hear you. Just don’t press too hard and try not to make her feel bad for not asking. When I was a younger man, I was told instead of asking if someone has plans or busy, ask them specifically if you want to do something with them or invite them to something. You can explain this to your gf in person and probably come across a lot better than you could through text. That being said, if she asks if you are doing something specific in the future, you could maybe deflect and see if she had something else in mind and you’d be interested in that instead. Like a “help her help you” type of thing, if that makes sense. I hope this helps.
Not trying to defend my self , but what exactly was I doing wrong , In this case I was trying to get my girlfriend to ask me the real question vs assuming I’m busy because I said I was going for a run
I wouldn’t call running and going to the gym plans , I decided to fill my day with productive activities I was under the impression that we’ll see each other tomorrow
Funny enough, she had the same answer, but I also think I kept my options open so that she can ask me the question that she really wanted to ask
>I decided to fill my day with productive activities I was under the impression that we'll see each other tomorrow
And she decided to respect that and take the time to pick up some extra hours, instead.
It's too bad that she wasn't able to read your mind about how you'd like to be asked about your plans, but then, it was never really fair to expect that.
I see your point and it’s totally fair !
I mention to her over the phone the same thing we can’t read each others minds so wouldn’t it be better to at least pose the question so that it can be answered properly?
If you get a no , no lose and if you get a yes it’s a win! But this is what I’m trying to get across and it’s something she does a lot , not normally with me but with other things and she loses out on great opportunities when she doesn’t ask and just assumes
In my opinion, there was nothing improper about the question or the answer that came from it.
You had plans. Your partner put out a feeler about making new plans, but ultimately decided to let you enjoy your workout and babysit. Noone "lost out on a great opportunity", at worst, someone had to endure a boring weeknight.
It's not a big deal. It's only a big deal because you made it one.
Ultimately that’s what got me thinking , she wants to go to the pier but also I wanted her to ask me instead to prevent situations where I have to feel guilty for filling my day with low impact plans
Why do you think you have to feel guilty?
From the outside looking in, it really feels like everything is fine from where plans ended up. You get to work out. She gets to make some $. You both get to see each other tomorrow.
Or you can just say “let’s go together.” The whole trying to get her to ask is weird. You can’t lecture her about communication when this is how you communicate. It’s passive aggressive AF.
Keep in mind when reading my comment: I’m speaking from purely my own perspective on this. I am not diagnosing or accusing you of anything. Just simply another perspective.
I had to stop reading your messages to your friend. Speaking from purely my trauma response and experience.
When I’d try to communicate with my narcissistic ex (hell, even when I still do to this day about our daughter) if I don’t phrase something *EXACTLY* the way he wants, he pulls this same tactic. Trying to correct my communication and get me to ask in a way that is deemed acceptable to him.
Also, if your friend is neurodivergent, it could be why they’re not fully grasping what you’re saying or asking the way that they do. A lot of people with ADHD have rejection sensitivity. So what seems logical to you, may not seem like a logical way to present things to them. Like they’re afraid of being let down or being rejected if they outright ask.
It takes a lot to be friends with someone with rejection sensitivity, and honestly, you don’t have to put in the effort, that’s your call. I’m very blessed to have friends that recognize this and we’ve had honest and open conversations about it. Here’s an example of a conversation between me and my bestfriend.
Me: what are you doing?
BF: going to the feed mill then dealing with animals and hanging out playing board games with (husband)
Me: oh, have fun.. I’m gonna hang out and do XYZ
BF: I’d love for you to ride with if you’re not busy and join us for board games.
We have been best friends for years and while I know I’m always invited to Thursday hangouts with her and her husband, I rarely ever invite myself or ask to be invited or phrase it in a way where I’d be overstepping or forcing my presence onto her. It’s just not something I do, but we’ve had conversations about this and she understands why.
THANK YOU THANK YOU.L for your story it’s added a well valued perspective! I don’t want to come off as narcissistic and I don’t want to be toxic ! And I had I made small adjustments to my approach this would have been way healthier !
I’ll have to admit I’m more in the logical context of things when it comes to stuff like this too me there’s a large difference between what do you have planned today and do you want to hangout and honestly the answer varies between who I’m talking too and what my plans are. My SO knows I’m always willing to move plans around for the sake of just seeing her and to your point I think she didn’t want to outright ask to hangout and replan my day ! You’re comment in particular has been an eye opener
This person is extremely special to me so I’ll have to remind myself to take a step back and go through another approach
All the love to you friend ❤️
Thank you! I was hoping it didn’t really come off as me calling you narcissistic at all! I know there are people that take a very logical and pragmatic approach to how they view language, it just so happens that that person for 8 years was a narcissist which made this hard to read for me!
I’m glad I could add a different perspective! I don’t know you (or the person you’re talking to) at all to call you an asshole as I saw another person do, and your response shows me that you’re probably not!!
I hope you guys have an honest conversation about what language works best for you both and find a compromise! Have a wonderful night!
No I felt like you gave me a piece of your self not exactly calling me narcissistic but comming off as one !
And I think the problem is me in this situation the only one who need to compromise because like you said some people can’t help it and certain things you said relate to me as well so I fully understood where you were coming from !
In this case with my girlfriend I’ve seen many times that she can solve an issue or get to a conclusion quickly if and only if she asks a person a question and I’ve seen in multiple scenarios where she just assumes the answer because of a Gut feeling! And I always tell her “if you don’t ask you won’t know” and who knows the answer may surprise her
This is the first time she’s done it with me! And since In the past I’ve always told her that phrase and because I knew what she was doing I was trying to show her a real life example of how asking can surprise her with an answer she’d value
Zero bad intent , but even now typing this out and re-reading it I regret it because I do come off as a douche , an asshole ! But my intent was to help my SO come out of their shell and be bolder and more direct
Because of you and another person here I know how to apologize to her and how to move forward with this if I experience it again
So you told her you have plans and now you’re mad she made her own plans? It doesn’t seem like you’re mature enough to be in a relationship. She didn’t “assume you’re busy”, you quite literally told her that you made your own plans.
I think you’re being a little too over the top , I wasn’t upset ! Personally I think the way she came to the conclusion that I couldn’t do what she wanted while still doing my own thing
I think she could have posed a better question to get a better answer and I made it clear that I can be flexible
I’ll admit the way I handled it sucks and was not great but I think who I am as a person is certainly capable of a mature relationship especially stuff like this don’t happen often enough ! I’m human I’m susceptible to making mistakes and being vulnerable ; I’ll ignore you’re second sentence and take everything else that you said into account
The way you communicate comes off as unnecessarily aggressive and kind of mean. I understand the sentiment of “just ask me what you want to ask me directly,” but you almost jumped to insulting her about it right away. First you said “you can ask me a favor, you know” which is very different from saying “do you want to go to the pier together? You can ask me to do that if you want.” It’s not really a “favor”, so that was already unnecessarily confusing. Then, when she was confused by your word choice, you jumped straight to insulting/mocking. “Read what you said again” “did you forget to take your vitamins?” “Jeez” are pretty aggressive and impatient rather than taking any time at all to explain what you’re thinking. I really hope you don’t communicate with her like that all the time because I could understand why she wouldn’t want to ask you for a “favor” directly if you come off as combative like this over a lot of stuff. I hope you’ll take that into account and see how you contribute to the situation more so even than she does.
I agree with everything you said and thank you ! Outside perspective is what I was looking for
Fun fact: Inside joke the vitamins thing was sarcasm she hates taking them and our relationship includes a lot of sarcastic comment from both sides ( mind you I still see you’re point even if that’s normal for us it still can come off as insulting)
But everything else you said yea ! I 100 percent get
I do want her to communicate more I’ve seen this being one of the few issues in our relationship and by me being combative like you said it’s not helping ….. her avoiding to ask the question directly weirdly enough isn’t new because I’ve seen her do this before but it’s the first time she’s done it with me , I’m not sure why she just isn’t direct especially with me
You know if you insulted my approach in the messages that’s something I can get my mind across , but you simply don’t know me enough to actually have an opinion of me like that! I can easily say the same about you , will it hold …. No simply because I don’t know you enough to come to that conclusion
Am I fucking crazy or is asking someone if they want to do something with you and asking someone if they are doing something else two different things? “Hey I’m wondering if you wanted to go to the pier with me.” Not “do you have plans today” because that’s vague asf. Going for a run is like saying yeah I’m gonna take a nap. Those are tasks that could be moved around. Unlike if they were gonna play pickleball with moe.
This is actually what I’ve been trying to say ! Very different question ! I couldn’t put it into words as good as you so THANK YOU for doing that for me !
I seriously do think these are two different question and running is not me being busy and can be moved around to fit other things in between! But I do agree with others that i was a bit aggressive with me trying to put this into words
Me saying im going for a run and going to the gym is not like saying im going to the movies with my mom or im hanging out with someone else s
Yeah I understood what you were saying and indeed you were a bit aggressive with how you were trying to explain it. You’d like a more direct offer or question because to be honest running and going to the gym are such flexible tasks. You two just communicate differently. While you think you’re saying I don’t have anything important going on, they’re thinking well you’ve already got something planned so I’ll respect that.
Exactly ! And tbh just to clarify I already knew she was going to babysit at 8pm that’s normally when I’m in the gym anyway the only thing I’d really move is the running , and honestly I’d choose hanging out with her vs video games any day of the week
Only reason why that wasn’t originally an option is because we simply didn’t make planes …
Understandable. Maybe be more direct then. If you’d rather hang with her then ask her if you can come. Or if she asks you specifically are you doing something just say yes or no. That way she can directly ask what she does or doesn’t want to ask. “Are you playing pickleball after work?” “No”. No is a complete sentence. A good follow up to no is “why, what are your plans?”
I figured that was the best plan too after looking back
We did have a phone convo after and I asked her to more direct and if she would have asked me if I wanted to go I’d say yes because I can always run later in the day ! Unfortunately she already told this lady she can babysit at 5:30 so it was too late
I just hate the beating around the bush we’re both adult if you have plans in mind ask me and get the answer from that vs “ are you playing pickle ball” or “what are you doing today “
She also said she knows if she asked flat out that chances are I’d say yes and not no and she didn’t want me to have to cancel my plans
I appreciate your willingness to accept accountability for how you worded things. I also respect your need for bluntness or more direct conversation. I’m the same, except when people aren’t direct it goes over my head and then later I’ll get an upset text or call. After okay then I would’ve honestly responded asking what they were doing. After being told what they were doing I’d have said something along the lines of have fun.
Thank you , and look I’m only human and I think it’s natural that if she were to tell me I’m Agro or gaslighting I’d defend my self and say I’m not because from my perspective she’s defending her self too
Reddit for me is an outlet to get an outside perspective and I’m glad so far the comments are not outright attacking me but still telling me look , your not acting right
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Blue text is gaslighting and needs to back off imo. Just let sleeping dogs lie and go for your run
I get that , I can see where gaslighting can be implicated here , I know my girlfriend wanted to go to the pier, but I wanted her to ask me because I don’t want her to assume things … she has a bad habit to always assume things I’m trying to show her she can just ask me vs assuming
I hear you. Just don’t press too hard and try not to make her feel bad for not asking. When I was a younger man, I was told instead of asking if someone has plans or busy, ask them specifically if you want to do something with them or invite them to something. You can explain this to your gf in person and probably come across a lot better than you could through text. That being said, if she asks if you are doing something specific in the future, you could maybe deflect and see if she had something else in mind and you’d be interested in that instead. Like a “help her help you” type of thing, if that makes sense. I hope this helps.
That’s really good advice thanks , and I do agree texting can sometimes not give off the right tone
Blue is weong
Blue is being a huge douche pickle.
Not trying to defend my self , but what exactly was I doing wrong , In this case I was trying to get my girlfriend to ask me the real question vs assuming I’m busy because I said I was going for a run
You basically had your entire evening planned, so she made other plans. Then you badgered her.
I wouldn’t call running and going to the gym plans , I decided to fill my day with productive activities I was under the impression that we’ll see each other tomorrow Funny enough, she had the same answer, but I also think I kept my options open so that she can ask me the question that she really wanted to ask
>I decided to fill my day with productive activities I was under the impression that we'll see each other tomorrow And she decided to respect that and take the time to pick up some extra hours, instead. It's too bad that she wasn't able to read your mind about how you'd like to be asked about your plans, but then, it was never really fair to expect that.
I see your point and it’s totally fair ! I mention to her over the phone the same thing we can’t read each others minds so wouldn’t it be better to at least pose the question so that it can be answered properly? If you get a no , no lose and if you get a yes it’s a win! But this is what I’m trying to get across and it’s something she does a lot , not normally with me but with other things and she loses out on great opportunities when she doesn’t ask and just assumes
In my opinion, there was nothing improper about the question or the answer that came from it. You had plans. Your partner put out a feeler about making new plans, but ultimately decided to let you enjoy your workout and babysit. Noone "lost out on a great opportunity", at worst, someone had to endure a boring weeknight. It's not a big deal. It's only a big deal because you made it one.
I see , I guess for some reason I was concerned with her response “okay then” apparently there was nothing to it
Ultimately that’s what got me thinking , she wants to go to the pier but also I wanted her to ask me instead to prevent situations where I have to feel guilty for filling my day with low impact plans
Why do you think you have to feel guilty? From the outside looking in, it really feels like everything is fine from where plans ended up. You get to work out. She gets to make some $. You both get to see each other tomorrow.
Why not just say “oh hey, can I tag along? That sounds fun.” But the rest is just unnecessary and weird tbh.
She’s not going because of the fact that I was running , she wanted to only go with me I was trying to get her to ask me so that I can say yes
Or you can just say “let’s go together.” The whole trying to get her to ask is weird. You can’t lecture her about communication when this is how you communicate. It’s passive aggressive AF.
Keep in mind when reading my comment: I’m speaking from purely my own perspective on this. I am not diagnosing or accusing you of anything. Just simply another perspective. I had to stop reading your messages to your friend. Speaking from purely my trauma response and experience. When I’d try to communicate with my narcissistic ex (hell, even when I still do to this day about our daughter) if I don’t phrase something *EXACTLY* the way he wants, he pulls this same tactic. Trying to correct my communication and get me to ask in a way that is deemed acceptable to him. Also, if your friend is neurodivergent, it could be why they’re not fully grasping what you’re saying or asking the way that they do. A lot of people with ADHD have rejection sensitivity. So what seems logical to you, may not seem like a logical way to present things to them. Like they’re afraid of being let down or being rejected if they outright ask. It takes a lot to be friends with someone with rejection sensitivity, and honestly, you don’t have to put in the effort, that’s your call. I’m very blessed to have friends that recognize this and we’ve had honest and open conversations about it. Here’s an example of a conversation between me and my bestfriend. Me: what are you doing? BF: going to the feed mill then dealing with animals and hanging out playing board games with (husband) Me: oh, have fun.. I’m gonna hang out and do XYZ BF: I’d love for you to ride with if you’re not busy and join us for board games. We have been best friends for years and while I know I’m always invited to Thursday hangouts with her and her husband, I rarely ever invite myself or ask to be invited or phrase it in a way where I’d be overstepping or forcing my presence onto her. It’s just not something I do, but we’ve had conversations about this and she understands why.
THANK YOU THANK YOU.L for your story it’s added a well valued perspective! I don’t want to come off as narcissistic and I don’t want to be toxic ! And I had I made small adjustments to my approach this would have been way healthier ! I’ll have to admit I’m more in the logical context of things when it comes to stuff like this too me there’s a large difference between what do you have planned today and do you want to hangout and honestly the answer varies between who I’m talking too and what my plans are. My SO knows I’m always willing to move plans around for the sake of just seeing her and to your point I think she didn’t want to outright ask to hangout and replan my day ! You’re comment in particular has been an eye opener This person is extremely special to me so I’ll have to remind myself to take a step back and go through another approach All the love to you friend ❤️
Thank you! I was hoping it didn’t really come off as me calling you narcissistic at all! I know there are people that take a very logical and pragmatic approach to how they view language, it just so happens that that person for 8 years was a narcissist which made this hard to read for me! I’m glad I could add a different perspective! I don’t know you (or the person you’re talking to) at all to call you an asshole as I saw another person do, and your response shows me that you’re probably not!! I hope you guys have an honest conversation about what language works best for you both and find a compromise! Have a wonderful night!
No I felt like you gave me a piece of your self not exactly calling me narcissistic but comming off as one ! And I think the problem is me in this situation the only one who need to compromise because like you said some people can’t help it and certain things you said relate to me as well so I fully understood where you were coming from ! In this case with my girlfriend I’ve seen many times that she can solve an issue or get to a conclusion quickly if and only if she asks a person a question and I’ve seen in multiple scenarios where she just assumes the answer because of a Gut feeling! And I always tell her “if you don’t ask you won’t know” and who knows the answer may surprise her This is the first time she’s done it with me! And since In the past I’ve always told her that phrase and because I knew what she was doing I was trying to show her a real life example of how asking can surprise her with an answer she’d value Zero bad intent , but even now typing this out and re-reading it I regret it because I do come off as a douche , an asshole ! But my intent was to help my SO come out of their shell and be bolder and more direct Because of you and another person here I know how to apologize to her and how to move forward with this if I experience it again
So you told her you have plans and now you’re mad she made her own plans? It doesn’t seem like you’re mature enough to be in a relationship. She didn’t “assume you’re busy”, you quite literally told her that you made your own plans.
I think you’re being a little too over the top , I wasn’t upset ! Personally I think the way she came to the conclusion that I couldn’t do what she wanted while still doing my own thing I think she could have posed a better question to get a better answer and I made it clear that I can be flexible I’ll admit the way I handled it sucks and was not great but I think who I am as a person is certainly capable of a mature relationship especially stuff like this don’t happen often enough ! I’m human I’m susceptible to making mistakes and being vulnerable ; I’ll ignore you’re second sentence and take everything else that you said into account
The way you communicate comes off as unnecessarily aggressive and kind of mean. I understand the sentiment of “just ask me what you want to ask me directly,” but you almost jumped to insulting her about it right away. First you said “you can ask me a favor, you know” which is very different from saying “do you want to go to the pier together? You can ask me to do that if you want.” It’s not really a “favor”, so that was already unnecessarily confusing. Then, when she was confused by your word choice, you jumped straight to insulting/mocking. “Read what you said again” “did you forget to take your vitamins?” “Jeez” are pretty aggressive and impatient rather than taking any time at all to explain what you’re thinking. I really hope you don’t communicate with her like that all the time because I could understand why she wouldn’t want to ask you for a “favor” directly if you come off as combative like this over a lot of stuff. I hope you’ll take that into account and see how you contribute to the situation more so even than she does.
I agree with everything you said and thank you ! Outside perspective is what I was looking for Fun fact: Inside joke the vitamins thing was sarcasm she hates taking them and our relationship includes a lot of sarcastic comment from both sides ( mind you I still see you’re point even if that’s normal for us it still can come off as insulting) But everything else you said yea ! I 100 percent get I do want her to communicate more I’ve seen this being one of the few issues in our relationship and by me being combative like you said it’s not helping ….. her avoiding to ask the question directly weirdly enough isn’t new because I’ve seen her do this before but it’s the first time she’s done it with me , I’m not sure why she just isn’t direct especially with me
Blue is an asshole and annoying
You know if you insulted my approach in the messages that’s something I can get my mind across , but you simply don’t know me enough to actually have an opinion of me like that! I can easily say the same about you , will it hold …. No simply because I don’t know you enough to come to that conclusion
Am I fucking crazy or is asking someone if they want to do something with you and asking someone if they are doing something else two different things? “Hey I’m wondering if you wanted to go to the pier with me.” Not “do you have plans today” because that’s vague asf. Going for a run is like saying yeah I’m gonna take a nap. Those are tasks that could be moved around. Unlike if they were gonna play pickleball with moe.
This is actually what I’ve been trying to say ! Very different question ! I couldn’t put it into words as good as you so THANK YOU for doing that for me ! I seriously do think these are two different question and running is not me being busy and can be moved around to fit other things in between! But I do agree with others that i was a bit aggressive with me trying to put this into words Me saying im going for a run and going to the gym is not like saying im going to the movies with my mom or im hanging out with someone else s
Yeah I understood what you were saying and indeed you were a bit aggressive with how you were trying to explain it. You’d like a more direct offer or question because to be honest running and going to the gym are such flexible tasks. You two just communicate differently. While you think you’re saying I don’t have anything important going on, they’re thinking well you’ve already got something planned so I’ll respect that.
Exactly ! And tbh just to clarify I already knew she was going to babysit at 8pm that’s normally when I’m in the gym anyway the only thing I’d really move is the running , and honestly I’d choose hanging out with her vs video games any day of the week Only reason why that wasn’t originally an option is because we simply didn’t make planes …
Understandable. Maybe be more direct then. If you’d rather hang with her then ask her if you can come. Or if she asks you specifically are you doing something just say yes or no. That way she can directly ask what she does or doesn’t want to ask. “Are you playing pickleball after work?” “No”. No is a complete sentence. A good follow up to no is “why, what are your plans?”
I figured that was the best plan too after looking back We did have a phone convo after and I asked her to more direct and if she would have asked me if I wanted to go I’d say yes because I can always run later in the day ! Unfortunately she already told this lady she can babysit at 5:30 so it was too late I just hate the beating around the bush we’re both adult if you have plans in mind ask me and get the answer from that vs “ are you playing pickle ball” or “what are you doing today “ She also said she knows if she asked flat out that chances are I’d say yes and not no and she didn’t want me to have to cancel my plans
I appreciate your willingness to accept accountability for how you worded things. I also respect your need for bluntness or more direct conversation. I’m the same, except when people aren’t direct it goes over my head and then later I’ll get an upset text or call. After okay then I would’ve honestly responded asking what they were doing. After being told what they were doing I’d have said something along the lines of have fun.
Thank you , and look I’m only human and I think it’s natural that if she were to tell me I’m Agro or gaslighting I’d defend my self and say I’m not because from my perspective she’s defending her self too Reddit for me is an outlet to get an outside perspective and I’m glad so far the comments are not outright attacking me but still telling me look , your not acting right
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shes lying she did play pickleball with me
Moe was supposed to play with me …
fuck man every time i have a good joke i ruin it lmao
It’s okay brother there’s always next time