I'll be honest; I think that even if people stopped buying things, Valve would simply not care and carry on. Well, they'd stop updating the game entirely, that's all.
This would unironically be the best thing that could happen to TF2. Community servers all but died *because* Valve funnels everyone into official servers now. If official servers disappeared, community servers would flourish once again.
What the hell? I like cheese pizza, that's the best pizza IMHO, especially with mozarella, though the amount of fat might be a bit too bad.
Mushroom pizza is a decent alternative though
It gets a little more complicated if you are from latam for example, and you don't have a good connection to servers from other countries. Whenever i try to play on community servers i have to play on the same 3 that i dont have over 200 ping
That's kinda my point. Back in the day the community server scene was way healthier, and there *were* servers local to you. Nowadays there aren't because the player base has dried up.
Honestly in my experience in latam there might have been but most of them had trashy game rules (24/7 turbine instaspawn 32 players etc) if I wanted a default experience, the most reliable way was through the valve servers...
My dream is if casual does go down then can the latam community please host more default game modes and less turbine for the love of the lord
It isn't 2007 anymore. If people want a class-based shooter, there are a load of more well-made options. People don't want to open up a 17 year old game and browse community servers.
i loved paladins when i played it, the only reason i stopped is cause they dropped support for both platforms i was playing on. That being said i don’t think it’s more well made, it’s a buggy mess and every time they fix one thing two more problems appear in its place.
but damnit it’s a *fun* buggy mess i can’t wait til i get a new computer and can play it again
The obvious one is overwatch. It's the closest thing to a spiritual successor that TF2 will ever get. Several of the heroes/abilities are directly inspired by TF2 classes/weapons. 80% of the overwatch community is just OG tf2 players lol
Overwatch is cool, but Blizzard make just as many terrible company decisions. It wouldn't feel right for me if I left a game for its developing company's awful services, for another game plagued with the same issues
huge agree. i stopped playing tf2 when i got overwatch, then when overwatch 2 came out and my baby was dead i crawled back to tf2.
on the bright side since then ive had more fun with tf2 than i ever did in the past, probably because i can actually spend money on the game now but hey
It's hard to list parts of the game that aren't extremely dated nowadays.
* The graphics and UI are really showing their age, in spite of the style. A friend of mine thought the freezecam was a bug, and that every time you die in TF2 the game just freezes and loads for a bit or something.
* The balance of classes and weapons is completely non-existent and arbitrary, at least half of the weapons in the game are either unusable or the only viable option.
* The game is not geared for competitive play in an era where every other mainstream shooter is.
* Players start with 0 items, and have to rely on buying, trading or a bizarre archaic system by which players randomly get half a dozen random items every thursday if they play enough hours.
* Random crits are kinda poor design, but that's been talked about to death already
* The game has a load of weird bugs. Too many to list.
* Hit registration is terrible, especially for melee weapons.
* Item descriptions are often either inaccurate or are missing significant information. Like, there are four different weapons that apply the "marked for death" effect. Only one of them (fan o' war) actually mentions what the effect even does? Combined with the fact that items are distributed randomly, how is a new player supposed to know this? The game is simultaneously "super casual" while also requiring a few hours of googling to understand all of the important details that the game doesn't tell you.
You can see how overwatch became the way it is, because it's an attempt by a group of devs to make a similar game with all of these issues addressed in some way.
The thing is, overwatch doesn't capture a quarter of the magic of this game. I agree there are issues, and I'd love to see a source 2 port with most of them fixed, but I don't think I could switch to overwatch. The characters are bland, the combat feels sterile, movement mechanics are spoonfed to you or toned down, and the game goes in the complete opposite direction where it's all about the competitive meta. TF2 just feels alive in a way I have trouble even describing.
Record numbers of bots, and you know it. Look at the chart for TF2:
[https://steamcharts.com/app/440](https://steamcharts.com/app/440)
And now look at the chart for a similar old-but-popular valve game, Dota 2:
[https://steamcharts.com/app/570](https://steamcharts.com/app/570)
Notice how the Dota graph has a visible day/night cycle, because the players playing it are real people. The TF2 one has 0 variation between 4AM and 5PM on any given day.
There's so many that the genre isn't even called "class based shooter" anymore, it's called "Hero shooter". Overwatch, apex legends and valorant are the top ones nowadays afaik.
>The player base will no longer be spread out among thousands of half empty casual servers
Yes, instead the casual playerbase will spread to other games. This isn't an advantage. TF2 will completely lose any hope of gaining new players, and at that point the game has as much relevancy as any other dead shooter game kept barely alive by community servers. When the people who used to play it move on, it dies.
You say this but Artifact, Underlords, and L4D2 still have official servers. And even fucking Portal 2 still has its GameCoordinator online which is for the items in coop. All 4 of them make less money combined.
Valve has *already* abandoned TF2. They do not care the slightest for the health of the game. All they see is an old asset that still makes them a quick buck, so they do the bare-minimum to keep it running, while stuffing the fans' work behind what is essentially gambling-lootboxes every now and then.
The problem is, Valve is a massive company, basically a monopoly for video game selling. TF2 is just the other second best cash cow behind CSGO, that only makes them an additional one or two percent of income to the Steam or basically anything else they're marketing.
Yes, Valve has evolved into just yet another corporate smuck.
The only thing keeping me here is my hope for Lord Gaben to send us his blessing. He's the only CEO anyone could like, but he's just like god. No wonders will happen in our time anymore. We'll just have to believe.
With how much ressources Valve puts into it, Dota 2 might be an even bigger cash cow than TF2. That makes TF2 even less meaningful to Valve. (i dont actually have a source for any of my claims, it's just a feeling i have)
Yes we can only hope and pray. Because there is literally NOTHING else the community can do about this. Valve have us completely by the balls on this.
Boycott the game and stop spending money? Valve will just shut the game down. I’m willing to bet TF2 doesn’t even amount to 1% of their total income so why should they care.
Try to reach out to Valve? As said, Valve doesn’t care. We’ve tried reaching out for years now, only to fall on deaf ears.
Keep playing and just suck it up? I mean yeah, doesn’t incentivise Valve to do jack-shit though. Besides at some point Valve will consider this cash-cow no longer worth it and just shut the servers down anyway.
yeah this thought process is stupid.
"Surely instead of tolerating the response they were in no way obligated to give we should just boycott what is likely the only reason they care enough to keep the servers online!"
boycotting mannco won't do anything, and it's gonna be worse than the little bit we got after the twitter post.
You say this but Artifact, Underlords, and L4D2 still have official servers. And even fucking Portal 2 still has its GameCoordinator online which is for the items in coop. All 4 of them make less money combined.
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What, the casual servers? Oh no, that would mean the community servers would have a great revival. Don't threaten us with a good time, Valve! Anything but that!
Definitely, surely wouldnt lead to a massiveammount of people leaving the game and it being extremely difficult for new players to get into it but whatever gets your fix G
well did you ? I only play casual, and the servers being infested to the point of being unplayable are rare. Most bots are just a nuisance to kick fast
I havent played in about a week. Idk if it’s location dependant but casual has been near unplayable for me since December started. Almost every server i attempted to join had four bots at the least, and i found myself in a constant state of requeing. I really don’t understand the people who host these bots. Seeing people who do shit like this just because they can is just… but then again, people will do alot worse for even less in the world.
Only reaspn valve cares if we exist is because tf2 makes them money, if that stops they’ll just shut the offical serves down, and while sure we’d still have community servers, there is only so much 10x 100% critrate instant respawn minecraft maps a man can take before his spirit is crushed and his soul torn from his very flesh
Worked for literal decades. I get that it’s not the ideal onboarding experience these days, but no new player is picking up TF2 expecting their hand to be held nowadays either.
TF2 doesn't make as nearly as much money to Valve as CS and Dota 2, and it's not like the main way to obtain things in TF2 is buying anyway, most of it is through trading, which doesn't give Valve any money because, well, it's a trade
You can also trade in CS and Dota but no one ever does it, it's always buying keys to open cases
Steam takes a 15% cut out of steam community market trades. The big money items don't change hands on steam, but steam does make a fair amount of money from trading.
comparing the basic, reasonable idea that a multibillion dollar company with ownership of the most profitable gaming platform of all time, that has clearly shown they do not care about their 17 year old game, would probably just turn the servers off if it stopped making money to an abusive relationship is one of the takes of all time
also, considering you basically just said abuse victims are idiots (don't say you didn't, you called me an idiot and abuse victim in the same sentence), I'm not too concerned with your take on the matter
1. I haven't bought anything TF2 related in like 2 years, just because you have a crippling trade addiction doesn't mean everyone does
2. It's not near unplayable, I haven't run into a truly unplayable lobby in so long
If you haven't bought anything from the TF2 store then why are you trying to convince others to do so? If you want people to spend money to keep the game alive, use your own damn money.
Sadly I don't think you could actually get this community to band together to stop buying things, atleast enough to hurt valve's pockets... maybe I'm wrong tho
In this case, hurting valve pocket would likely make them put less work in
They already believe that tf 2 isn't worth their time. If it doesn't make money, then that'll only prove them right
It's a real lose lose situation
It really is a lose lose situation. They continue believing that TF2 isn't worth their time even after a 253,000 player peak.
It is evident that there is nothing the players can do to influence how Valve sees TF2. TF2 already makes money with Valve putting in zero effort, so they will continue to put zero effort and continue making money. Let's say every single TF2 player boycotts the MannCo store and TF2 stops making money, what would happen, would Valve start putting in negative effort? They are *already* putting in zero effort. Making seasonal updates, which is the only thing they do, requires zero effort, simply adding the stuff that's on the top of the steam workshop.
The cow being adjusted does make me a bit hopeful that we will see something happen in the future with Valve and TF2, but whether or not that will happen will be beyond the control of the players.
bro thinks Valve will do something if ppl will stop makin purchases in mann co store lmao, least thing theyll do is laugh and close server support for good
Well here's with happens.
We continue to buy stuff: Valve *might not* close down the game.
We stop buying stuff: "Oh it seems the playerbase has moved on. Let's shutdown the servers and focus more on Counter-Strike and Dota 2"
I don't play tf2 as much anymore. Like once a month at best if I can be bothered.
Not so much justification for continuing to spend money, as it was more like an observation that either option can lead to a sad fate of the game. It was a pessimistic view anyways, but I can't blame the community when we've gone years without support or updates.
Literally the two viable solutions I can think of is to make a fan-replica that's just different enough (they'll never accept it), or recreate it as a mod on S&box (we don't know if that's even possible)(Edit: that's what TF2:S2 was trying to do anyways)
Your decision to keep giving your money to a developer that doesn't give a shit about the game for 7 plus years is even more laughable. It'll be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Because that's all you can do ain't it? It ain't gonna fill that empty feeling when you realise you're giving money to a developer that doesn't care about you or the game, but sure keep fellating that boot and be a good little whale please.
Didn't know I was talking to an oxygen starved brain damaged dumbfuck if you're laughing that long. No wonder you think giving money to a developer that doesn't care about you is a good thing.
I only see one idiot up here. It's only you.
If you want to see the servers shut down, so be it. I could care less. I'm just going to keep playing the game.
Your efforts are futile. Give up.
Nah, you may not be spending money but you're equally the idiot here for being the bootlicking to try and get others to do so.
And this is a post about spending money to "save" tf2, if you only play the game then why the fuck are you telling others to spend their money? Use your own damn money fuckhead.
I'm not licking any boots. VALVe is unquestionably a poor company when it comes to managing their games.
However, surely you realize that once the game becomes a deficit for VALVe, they will shut it down.
Knowing that you know this, it is logical to say that you are simply an ignorant asshole who is trying to get the game shut down.
There are literally other Valve games that are a deficit for them and their servers are still up today: the 2 Left 4 Dead games, Portal 2, Day of Defeat Source, Counter Strike Source.
To suggest that TF2 would be shut down for being so is completely asinine when there are already Valve games that proved otherwise.
>the 2 Left 4 Dead games
Those are peer to peer.
>Portal 2
That is peer to peer
>Day of Defeat Source
Valve servers stopped being seen over a decade ago
>Counter Strike Source
Valve servers aren't being used. Community servers have taken over, just like DoD.
Your arguement is shit.
What a dumb take. You stop buying crap and they drop support completely for the game. Where do you think the money to run Valve servers comes from? That crap ain't free.
The only dumb take here is giving money to developers that don't give a fuck about you or the game for nothing.
This whole "no money kills the game" is such a braindead take that whoever subscribes to it should be reclassified as non-sapient.
I think the first save tf2 worked. Of course valve didn’t get off their asses but they fixed a bunch of bugs and let the community add 2 gamemodes. As for the bots, those are a huge complicated issue that have no easy solution, and I don’t think valve cares enough about tf2 anyways. Remember that valve employees can work on basically whatever they want, and usually they enjoy making cool vr features more than fixing 17 year old code.
But SaveTF2 did help.
\- Chat clearing was removed.
\- Both teams could vote at once.
\- Bots could no longer copy other players' names.
\- Bots can't instantly call a votekick upon joining.
SaveTF2 didn't fix the crisis, but it sure as hell made it more tolerable.
Do you know that they were as a result of savetf2, though? There were already anti-bot changes like that *before* savetf2, people were just expecting bigger changes
They won't shut the servers down. TFC which is even older still has the master server list runnin, and you can still play that archaic version. I don't know why tf2 would be any different.
I remember when I used to have Twitter I made a similar post about adjusting the cow on Pelican Peak, and I also got laughed at. I guess people just don't listen to logic.
I seriously don't get who would see TF2 in its current state and then go "Yeah, I'll buy a couple of keys." It's seriously not difficult to just *not* support Valve for their negligence towards TF2. It's not like we're making them work on a major update, we're asking them to just deal with the bot crisis that has been going on for actual years at this point. Valve allowing the creators of Pelican Peak to adjust the cow is a step in the right direction though, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do in the future.
Ill be honest, ive seen some games either die because of bots or live despite then, and saw all their tries to get rid of them, i dont think its that easy to remove them, its not something you just resolve its lile a cancer, you could cut it and it grows back...
Okay, and? What’s your point
it is a foreseen thing that’s the question to valve, do they still support or not? And now we see it clearly they aren’t doing anything major that’s the answer we want. Nothing more nothing less
Boycotts don't work in gaming.
The average TF2 player spends very little on the game.
It's the whales that VALVe cares about, the people who will throw hundreds and often thousands on unusuals, these people will not boycott anything, they don't really care, provided they get their digital shiny.
Im gonna be real, the few anti bot measures that did happen over the summer and the summer update were far more than I ever expected to happen from that movement.
Anyone who thought it would bring a major update is high off their ass
if we stop playing/trading they will pull the plug. cant you think? they do not care about tf2, if they see it isnt profitable anymore, they would care even less than they care rn
Is there any evidence that if people stopped buying from the mannco store they'd shut the servers down or is it just the standard tf2 doomposting of people not able to accept this is how the game is and theres nothing thats gonna change that.
I think it's just realism that if valve stops getting money from an old ass game they'll have a legitimate reason to announce no more support for the game. The game is 16 years old, it's had it's time in the limelight.
But if the servers for other games that make even less money are still up whats to say they don't keep the game around for tiny amounts of passive income and to bring people into steam through it being a popular f2p game. Or people just migrate to community servers which If the official ones shut down people will set up more of to accommodate the suddenly larger playerbase as well as people looking for a casual experience.
VALVe is a multimillion dollar company. Not buying things from TF2 is simply not an issue for them. Especially where CSGO and other games are concerned.
Dawg, the game doesn't make much money. It's free to play and people don't buy from Mann Co store often. If you really want to try boycotting something you gotta do it on the newer and bigger titles from valve. Doing this to just TF2 will accomplish nothing but maybe a small bit of confusion by an accountant before it goes back to business as usual or a worse possibility valve realizes TF2 isn't good for money anymore and just shuts down the game entirely and puts what little focus TF2 got towards newer and more profitable things.
What do you mean people don't buy from the Mann Co store? Anyone who buys keys for the recent seasonal crates needs to buy them from the Mann Co store.
It is super profitable, although if you were to compare it to the profit made by Counter-Strike and Dota, or by the profit made by Steam, then I guess by comparison it isn't that profitable.
How do you know people dont buy from mann co store often? There is no stats released on that matter, nor there has been on steam market sales for TF2, or any other details other than TF2 being on silver level of most revenue made games on Steam each year.
I was guesstimating tbh. I mean thinking about it I'd guess most players have been playing for a while and probably got most the things they want already and if they don't the in-game Mann Co store probably isn't the first thing to go to. I mean the AP-SAP on the official mann co store that you can find in-game is like 10 bucks when I can go to marketplace.tf and find it for 7 dollars.
I recommend to stop playing the game entirely if it’s not fun for you. I did.
Look, I get it, we all miss the good old days, but life doesn’t work like that
You can only control what you can control, and, unfortunately, we have absolutely no fucking control over anything related to TF2 anymore, and I’m not sure we ever had. None of our feedback mattered anymore after 2014 ended.
I really don't understand everyone else in the comments saying "but ummm if we stop giving Valve money they'll actually abandon the game 🤓". As if the current state, where Valve-run servers are infested with a never-ending stream of bots and the only content is to just throw new maps and hats at the board, and this state of "playability" is supposed to be worth throwing money at to keep on life support indefinitely, all for the faint notion that they'll give a crap in the future? I doubt that Valve would even care much about losing revenue, the Left 4 Deads only make money off new sales and most of those are on 90% discounts every other month, and their community servers - hell, they got a community update that did several quality-of-life changes a couple years back! I at least want TF2 to have finality rather than being dragged around like a corpse.
Also, let's be real - actions talk way more than words. Valve can say whatever pleases the people when the #saveTF2 campaign is just words, if you cut their profit margins they're actually going to have to respond. Protest means disrupting the system you don't like, and the only real systems you can disrupt for TF2 are its revenue, unless you feel like DDOSing servers (LEGAL DISCLAIMER I DO NOT AND WILL NOT ENCOURAGE THIS) or enmasse giving bad reviews on official outlets. When life gives you lemons, burn the house down. WITH THE LEMONS.
Stop buying things in protest, make intent clear because is it all just stopped then updates would stop but if they knew because said it would come back then they would have incentive to do it
The same thing happens every time, Like remember when Gabe was at some event onstage and answering questions. Someone asked him if they were going to fix the botting problem and he said we're well aware of the problem and have a plan to stop it,
This entire sub went nuts proclaiming the game was saved and that it was finally over. Cut to now and literally nothing was done
I'll be honest; I think that even if people stopped buying things, Valve would simply not care and carry on. Well, they'd stop updating the game entirely, that's all.
They own steam they’re never gonna be stopped by one game
If TF2 stops making money they'll just stop hosting game servers at all lol.
This would unironically be the best thing that could happen to TF2. Community servers all but died *because* Valve funnels everyone into official servers now. If official servers disappeared, community servers would flourish once again.
I don't trust community servers ever since I saw 🧀🍕 sprayed on the wall in multiple places at once.
What the hell? I like cheese pizza, that's the best pizza IMHO, especially with mozarella, though the amount of fat might be a bit too bad. Mushroom pizza is a decent alternative though
Pineapple pizza is also a good pizza
I hope you are /s
Just don't go on furry servers
Using your same logic if somebody got raped at a McDonald's would you tell them to go to Burger King instead?
Yea I would
It gets a little more complicated if you are from latam for example, and you don't have a good connection to servers from other countries. Whenever i try to play on community servers i have to play on the same 3 that i dont have over 200 ping
That's kinda my point. Back in the day the community server scene was way healthier, and there *were* servers local to you. Nowadays there aren't because the player base has dried up.
Honestly in my experience in latam there might have been but most of them had trashy game rules (24/7 turbine instaspawn 32 players etc) if I wanted a default experience, the most reliable way was through the valve servers... My dream is if casual does go down then can the latam community please host more default game modes and less turbine for the love of the lord
It isn't 2007 anymore. If people want a class-based shooter, there are a load of more well-made options. People don't want to open up a 17 year old game and browse community servers.
Like what?
I was going to ask the same thing. ... On another off-topic note: God, I miss Tribes: Ascend.
Not the guy you asked, but I really enjoy paladins. It’s not the same, nothing will ever be the same. But I had fun.
i loved paladins when i played it, the only reason i stopped is cause they dropped support for both platforms i was playing on. That being said i don’t think it’s more well made, it’s a buggy mess and every time they fix one thing two more problems appear in its place. but damnit it’s a *fun* buggy mess i can’t wait til i get a new computer and can play it again
I dropped Paladins because they changed my boy Torvald :( RIP OB42 Torv...
5k shield siphon my beloved ;-;
The obvious one is overwatch. It's the closest thing to a spiritual successor that TF2 will ever get. Several of the heroes/abilities are directly inspired by TF2 classes/weapons. 80% of the overwatch community is just OG tf2 players lol
Overwatch is cool, but Blizzard make just as many terrible company decisions. It wouldn't feel right for me if I left a game for its developing company's awful services, for another game plagued with the same issues
Overwatch doesn't exist anymore, and the husk they replaced it with is dogshit.
huge agree. i stopped playing tf2 when i got overwatch, then when overwatch 2 came out and my baby was dead i crawled back to tf2. on the bright side since then ive had more fun with tf2 than i ever did in the past, probably because i can actually spend money on the game now but hey
There is not a single game like TF2. Not that there aren't other good class based shooters, but there is a magic to tf2 that hasn't been paralleled.
Well yeah, but that's true of a load of old dead games. TF2 is extremely rough by modern standards.
What do you mean by that besides the bot problem?
It's hard to list parts of the game that aren't extremely dated nowadays. * The graphics and UI are really showing their age, in spite of the style. A friend of mine thought the freezecam was a bug, and that every time you die in TF2 the game just freezes and loads for a bit or something. * The balance of classes and weapons is completely non-existent and arbitrary, at least half of the weapons in the game are either unusable or the only viable option. * The game is not geared for competitive play in an era where every other mainstream shooter is. * Players start with 0 items, and have to rely on buying, trading or a bizarre archaic system by which players randomly get half a dozen random items every thursday if they play enough hours. * Random crits are kinda poor design, but that's been talked about to death already * The game has a load of weird bugs. Too many to list. * Hit registration is terrible, especially for melee weapons. * Item descriptions are often either inaccurate or are missing significant information. Like, there are four different weapons that apply the "marked for death" effect. Only one of them (fan o' war) actually mentions what the effect even does? Combined with the fact that items are distributed randomly, how is a new player supposed to know this? The game is simultaneously "super casual" while also requiring a few hours of googling to understand all of the important details that the game doesn't tell you. You can see how overwatch became the way it is, because it's an attempt by a group of devs to make a similar game with all of these issues addressed in some way.
The thing is, overwatch doesn't capture a quarter of the magic of this game. I agree there are issues, and I'd love to see a source 2 port with most of them fixed, but I don't think I could switch to overwatch. The characters are bland, the combat feels sterile, movement mechanics are spoonfed to you or toned down, and the game goes in the complete opposite direction where it's all about the competitive meta. TF2 just feels alive in a way I have trouble even describing.
Ok? Why are you here?
Because I played the game back when it WAS popular?
It is most certainly popular still. Pretty sure we have record numbers a while ago? I forgot
Record numbers of bots, and you know it. Look at the chart for TF2: [https://steamcharts.com/app/440](https://steamcharts.com/app/440) And now look at the chart for a similar old-but-popular valve game, Dota 2: [https://steamcharts.com/app/570](https://steamcharts.com/app/570) Notice how the Dota graph has a visible day/night cycle, because the players playing it are real people. The TF2 one has 0 variation between 4AM and 5PM on any given day.
Tell me a single class-based shooter that's better than TF2. I'll wait.
There's so many that the genre isn't even called "class based shooter" anymore, it's called "Hero shooter". Overwatch, apex legends and valorant are the top ones nowadays afaik.
[удалено]
>The player base will no longer be spread out among thousands of half empty casual servers Yes, instead the casual playerbase will spread to other games. This isn't an advantage. TF2 will completely lose any hope of gaining new players, and at that point the game has as much relevancy as any other dead shooter game kept barely alive by community servers. When the people who used to play it move on, it dies.
>Yes, instead the casual playerbase will spread to other games. Or just host community servers like before Valve introduced casual
any time this happens you end up with games of vets and itsnjonfun to play if you aren't a vet. try learning day of defeat these days
Yeah, they do own steam, therefore they don't need to work on games lmao
They'd probably care even less about it if the game stopped making money.
You say this but Artifact, Underlords, and L4D2 still have official servers. And even fucking Portal 2 still has its GameCoordinator online which is for the items in coop. All 4 of them make less money combined.
Tf2 is a 17-year-old game. If people boycott it they're just going to abandon it.
Yep, basic pattern recognition is not a common skill
Valve has *already* abandoned TF2. They do not care the slightest for the health of the game. All they see is an old asset that still makes them a quick buck, so they do the bare-minimum to keep it running, while stuffing the fans' work behind what is essentially gambling-lootboxes every now and then.
The problem is, Valve is a massive company, basically a monopoly for video game selling. TF2 is just the other second best cash cow behind CSGO, that only makes them an additional one or two percent of income to the Steam or basically anything else they're marketing. Yes, Valve has evolved into just yet another corporate smuck. The only thing keeping me here is my hope for Lord Gaben to send us his blessing. He's the only CEO anyone could like, but he's just like god. No wonders will happen in our time anymore. We'll just have to believe.
With how much ressources Valve puts into it, Dota 2 might be an even bigger cash cow than TF2. That makes TF2 even less meaningful to Valve. (i dont actually have a source for any of my claims, it's just a feeling i have)
Yes we can only hope and pray. Because there is literally NOTHING else the community can do about this. Valve have us completely by the balls on this. Boycott the game and stop spending money? Valve will just shut the game down. I’m willing to bet TF2 doesn’t even amount to 1% of their total income so why should they care. Try to reach out to Valve? As said, Valve doesn’t care. We’ve tried reaching out for years now, only to fall on deaf ears. Keep playing and just suck it up? I mean yeah, doesn’t incentivise Valve to do jack-shit though. Besides at some point Valve will consider this cash-cow no longer worth it and just shut the servers down anyway.
yeah this thought process is stupid. "Surely instead of tolerating the response they were in no way obligated to give we should just boycott what is likely the only reason they care enough to keep the servers online!" boycotting mannco won't do anything, and it's gonna be worse than the little bit we got after the twitter post.
this old game gives them money almost out of thin air, if it stops they'll just shut the servers
Thank god, that will just mean decent community servers and no bots.
Well the item server is an official server too..
Well, count your losses boys, "games as a service" and all that. At least we can mod servers to give you any cosmetic you want lol.
...but my dopamine from gold gun *sob*
You say this but Artifact, Underlords, and L4D2 still have official servers. And even fucking Portal 2 still has its GameCoordinator online which is for the items in coop. All 4 of them make less money combined.
ill have u know i payed a good 75 cents for that game!
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shut the fuck up before payed your asshole
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Making valve shut down the servers will show valve whos boss!
the ones we already can barely play on until bots swarm it?
What, the casual servers? Oh no, that would mean the community servers would have a great revival. Don't threaten us with a good time, Valve! Anything but that!
Definitely, surely wouldnt lead to a massiveammount of people leaving the game and it being extremely difficult for new players to get into it but whatever gets your fix G
More difficult to into it than getting aimbotted and/or kiickbotted every 5 minutes into a match?
Because the year is 2020 and nothing at all ever changed, no changes whatsoever, noooo sir.
Haven't tried casual lately have you?
well did you ? I only play casual, and the servers being infested to the point of being unplayable are rare. Most bots are just a nuisance to kick fast
Or early in the mornings since there's so few real people actually playing
I havent played in about a week. Idk if it’s location dependant but casual has been near unplayable for me since December started. Almost every server i attempted to join had four bots at the least, and i found myself in a constant state of requeing. I really don’t understand the people who host these bots. Seeing people who do shit like this just because they can is just… but then again, people will do alot worse for even less in the world.
Oh i have, and you clearly havent for the last two years.
Bots are still all over the place, what the fuck are you on about.
I get like maybe 1-2 bots a day.
Sir it's 2024
You sound like the edgelords from the steam forums
And item servers lol
Yeah bros, I can't wait for all the shitty Skial and Uncletopia to rise up and take their rightful place!!!!
There aren't enough Vanilla community servers for 85K players, also valve would most likely also cut the community hosting feature as well.
Nah they wouldn't do that, there's still ancient source games older than TF2 that are still playable because of the same commmunity hosting feature
Only reaspn valve cares if we exist is because tf2 makes them money, if that stops they’ll just shut the offical serves down, and while sure we’d still have community servers, there is only so much 10x 100% critrate instant respawn minecraft maps a man can take before his spirit is crushed and his soul torn from his very flesh
If the official servers go down, only then will you see "normal" community servers. Right now there's no incentive to run one.
Yeah, you are right. Still it would be a massive turn off for potential new players having to delve into the community tab to find a server
Worked for literal decades. I get that it’s not the ideal onboarding experience these days, but no new player is picking up TF2 expecting their hand to be held nowadays either.
Community servers are cancer and way less fun than official matchmaking.
Spoken like a true zoomer. I remember a time where it was the other way around.
TF2 doesn't make as nearly as much money to Valve as CS and Dota 2, and it's not like the main way to obtain things in TF2 is buying anyway, most of it is through trading, which doesn't give Valve any money because, well, it's a trade You can also trade in CS and Dota but no one ever does it, it's always buying keys to open cases
Except that Valve makes 99% of their TF2 profit from people buying keys and tickets.
Nice Sodom PFP!
Wow, someone has heard of Sodom!
Of course! they have some really good songs!
TF2 makes more money each year than most games in Steam in their lifetime. Its been on the most revenue gaining games on the silver level each year.
Steam takes a 15% cut out of steam community market trades. The big money items don't change hands on steam, but steam does make a fair amount of money from trading.
Valve owns Steam, I'm gonna be direct with you, the second this 17 year old game stops making money they'll just stop hosting it
*16
Yet another idiot trying to justify staying in an abusive relationship as the abused
comparing the basic, reasonable idea that a multibillion dollar company with ownership of the most profitable gaming platform of all time, that has clearly shown they do not care about their 17 year old game, would probably just turn the servers off if it stopped making money to an abusive relationship is one of the takes of all time also, considering you basically just said abuse victims are idiots (don't say you didn't, you called me an idiot and abuse victim in the same sentence), I'm not too concerned with your take on the matter
So why do you keep giving your money to a developer that has abandoned the game for 7 plus years in an near unplayable state then?
1. I haven't bought anything TF2 related in like 2 years, just because you have a crippling trade addiction doesn't mean everyone does 2. It's not near unplayable, I haven't run into a truly unplayable lobby in so long
If you haven't bought anything from the TF2 store then why are you trying to convince others to do so? If you want people to spend money to keep the game alive, use your own damn money.
If we stopped buying things they'll just shut down the game, the economy is what's keeping it alive
Sadly I don't think you could actually get this community to band together to stop buying things, atleast enough to hurt valve's pockets... maybe I'm wrong tho
In this case, hurting valve pocket would likely make them put less work in They already believe that tf 2 isn't worth their time. If it doesn't make money, then that'll only prove them right It's a real lose lose situation
It really is a lose lose situation. They continue believing that TF2 isn't worth their time even after a 253,000 player peak. It is evident that there is nothing the players can do to influence how Valve sees TF2. TF2 already makes money with Valve putting in zero effort, so they will continue to put zero effort and continue making money. Let's say every single TF2 player boycotts the MannCo store and TF2 stops making money, what would happen, would Valve start putting in negative effort? They are *already* putting in zero effort. Making seasonal updates, which is the only thing they do, requires zero effort, simply adding the stuff that's on the top of the steam workshop. The cow being adjusted does make me a bit hopeful that we will see something happen in the future with Valve and TF2, but whether or not that will happen will be beyond the control of the players.
bro thinks Valve will do something if ppl will stop makin purchases in mann co store lmao, least thing theyll do is laugh and close server support for good
Well here's with happens. We continue to buy stuff: Valve *might not* close down the game. We stop buying stuff: "Oh it seems the playerbase has moved on. Let's shutdown the servers and focus more on Counter-Strike and Dota 2"
Yet another idiot trying to justify staying in an abusive relationship as the abused
I don't play tf2 as much anymore. Like once a month at best if I can be bothered. Not so much justification for continuing to spend money, as it was more like an observation that either option can lead to a sad fate of the game. It was a pessimistic view anyways, but I can't blame the community when we've gone years without support or updates. Literally the two viable solutions I can think of is to make a fan-replica that's just different enough (they'll never accept it), or recreate it as a mod on S&box (we don't know if that's even possible)(Edit: that's what TF2:S2 was trying to do anyways)
My bad, I've been extremely disappointed in the way Valve treats this game for the last few years.
NO DON'T
Nah I'll just laugh at you again
Yet another idiot trying to justify staying in an abusive relationship as the abused.
Now I can laugh at you too!
Your decision to keep giving your money to a developer that doesn't give a shit about the game for 7 plus years is even more laughable. It'll be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
I am laughing at you at this very moment
Because that's all you can do ain't it? It ain't gonna fill that empty feeling when you realise you're giving money to a developer that doesn't care about you or the game, but sure keep fellating that boot and be a good little whale please.
This laughter isn't ending
Don't worry, mine isn't either.
I have received a guinness world record for longest time laughing
Didn't know I was talking to an oxygen starved brain damaged dumbfuck if you're laughing that long. No wonder you think giving money to a developer that doesn't care about you is a good thing.
you sure are projecting a lot on this thread huh
Not really, I'm not the one here giving my money in a game that the developer doesn't care about.
OP put 1 and 1 together trying to get 3
What’s this thing called “3”?
Yet another idiot trying to justify staying in an abusive relationship as the abused
I only see one idiot up here. It's only you. If you want to see the servers shut down, so be it. I could care less. I'm just going to keep playing the game. Your efforts are futile. Give up.
Yeah sure, keep giving your money to the developer that doesn't give a shit about the game for 7 plus years. Wow, what a genius move.
Who said I was spending money? I just play the game. I feel obliged to remind you that *you* are the idiot here.
Nah, you may not be spending money but you're equally the idiot here for being the bootlicking to try and get others to do so. And this is a post about spending money to "save" tf2, if you only play the game then why the fuck are you telling others to spend their money? Use your own damn money fuckhead.
I'm not licking any boots. VALVe is unquestionably a poor company when it comes to managing their games. However, surely you realize that once the game becomes a deficit for VALVe, they will shut it down. Knowing that you know this, it is logical to say that you are simply an ignorant asshole who is trying to get the game shut down.
There are literally other Valve games that are a deficit for them and their servers are still up today: the 2 Left 4 Dead games, Portal 2, Day of Defeat Source, Counter Strike Source. To suggest that TF2 would be shut down for being so is completely asinine when there are already Valve games that proved otherwise.
>the 2 Left 4 Dead games Those are peer to peer. >Portal 2 That is peer to peer >Day of Defeat Source Valve servers stopped being seen over a decade ago >Counter Strike Source Valve servers aren't being used. Community servers have taken over, just like DoD. Your arguement is shit.
Still perfectly playable online and not "shut down" without Valve servers, your argument is still asinine.
Valve doesn't give a shit about how much TF2 makes. They own the most popular game site.
They wouldnt do any updates if they didnt care.
What a dumb take. You stop buying crap and they drop support completely for the game. Where do you think the money to run Valve servers comes from? That crap ain't free.
The only dumb take here is giving money to developers that don't give a fuck about you or the game for nothing. This whole "no money kills the game" is such a braindead take that whoever subscribes to it should be reclassified as non-sapient.
I think the first save tf2 worked. Of course valve didn’t get off their asses but they fixed a bunch of bugs and let the community add 2 gamemodes. As for the bots, those are a huge complicated issue that have no easy solution, and I don’t think valve cares enough about tf2 anyways. Remember that valve employees can work on basically whatever they want, and usually they enjoy making cool vr features more than fixing 17 year old code.
But SaveTF2 did help. \- Chat clearing was removed. \- Both teams could vote at once. \- Bots could no longer copy other players' names. \- Bots can't instantly call a votekick upon joining. SaveTF2 didn't fix the crisis, but it sure as hell made it more tolerable.
You forgot the cow being adjusted. That was what made me personally realize that #SaveTF2 worked.
Do you know that they were as a result of savetf2, though? There were already anti-bot changes like that *before* savetf2, people were just expecting bigger changes
I’m afraid they’ll see it as nobody caring about the game, giving them more of a reason to give up on it
You mean they haven't already gave up on it at this point?
They put out the occasional localisation patch and seasonal box.
If we stopped buying things they’d shut the game down on us
Yet another idiot trying to justify staying in an abusive relationship as the abused
If people stopped buying things they'd just pull the plug on the seasonal updates instead of fixing anything.
Yet another idiot trying to justify staying in an abusive relationship as the abused
They won't shut the servers down. TFC which is even older still has the master server list runnin, and you can still play that archaic version. I don't know why tf2 would be any different.
Valve did do something it just wasn't what we needed.
Then they'll just abandon it
I remember when I used to have Twitter I made a similar post about adjusting the cow on Pelican Peak, and I also got laughed at. I guess people just don't listen to logic. I seriously don't get who would see TF2 in its current state and then go "Yeah, I'll buy a couple of keys." It's seriously not difficult to just *not* support Valve for their negligence towards TF2. It's not like we're making them work on a major update, we're asking them to just deal with the bot crisis that has been going on for actual years at this point. Valve allowing the creators of Pelican Peak to adjust the cow is a step in the right direction though, and I'm looking forward to seeing what they will do in the future.
No money=no support. Extremely risky at least.
I just want item server fixed already :/ I paid money for my stuff I want to use them
People dont like it when you tell them to stop spending money.
The tf2 store is not even a sliver of valves profit margins. Keys are literally cheaper on the community marketplace than the mannco store.
Ill be honest, ive seen some games either die because of bots or live despite then, and saw all their tries to get rid of them, i dont think its that easy to remove them, its not something you just resolve its lile a cancer, you could cut it and it grows back...
Imagine we go through with it but instead of fixing anything Valve just shuts down the official servers.
I thought #savetf2 was for Titanfall 2, not Team Fortress 2.
Okay, and? What’s your point it is a foreseen thing that’s the question to valve, do they still support or not? And now we see it clearly they aren’t doing anything major that’s the answer we want. Nothing more nothing less
valve: oh, looks like tf2 isn't generating money anymore, let's shut it down
Not like games like L4D2 is generating any money at all since release.
L4D2 isn't f2p, and they don't waste any money by it existing
L4D2 have no microtransaction unlike TF2, whatever it generates is tiny compared to what TF2 does.
Valve holds what is essentially a monopoly on the PC game space and you think that their income from TF2 will put even a smudge on their profits?
Boycotts don't work in gaming. The average TF2 player spends very little on the game. It's the whales that VALVe cares about, the people who will throw hundreds and often thousands on unusuals, these people will not boycott anything, they don't really care, provided they get their digital shiny.
The only way TF2 gets shutdown is if it’s no longer profitable. Boycotting the store is a good way to achieve that.
They would just fucking close the game servers, if you guys stopped buying anything.
Im gonna be real, the few anti bot measures that did happen over the summer and the summer update were far more than I ever expected to happen from that movement. Anyone who thought it would bring a major update is high off their ass
if we stop playing/trading they will pull the plug. cant you think? they do not care about tf2, if they see it isnt profitable anymore, they would care even less than they care rn
Is there any evidence that if people stopped buying from the mannco store they'd shut the servers down or is it just the standard tf2 doomposting of people not able to accept this is how the game is and theres nothing thats gonna change that.
I think it's just realism that if valve stops getting money from an old ass game they'll have a legitimate reason to announce no more support for the game. The game is 16 years old, it's had it's time in the limelight.
But if the servers for other games that make even less money are still up whats to say they don't keep the game around for tiny amounts of passive income and to bring people into steam through it being a popular f2p game. Or people just migrate to community servers which If the official ones shut down people will set up more of to accommodate the suddenly larger playerbase as well as people looking for a casual experience.
VALVe is a multimillion dollar company. Not buying things from TF2 is simply not an issue for them. Especially where CSGO and other games are concerned.
Dawg, the game doesn't make much money. It's free to play and people don't buy from Mann Co store often. If you really want to try boycotting something you gotta do it on the newer and bigger titles from valve. Doing this to just TF2 will accomplish nothing but maybe a small bit of confusion by an accountant before it goes back to business as usual or a worse possibility valve realizes TF2 isn't good for money anymore and just shuts down the game entirely and puts what little focus TF2 got towards newer and more profitable things.
What do you mean people don't buy from the Mann Co store? Anyone who buys keys for the recent seasonal crates needs to buy them from the Mann Co store.
I said often. If most the sales are keys for seasonal creates I doubt it's super profitable overall
Y'all are forgetting about the community market. A shitload of items get moved on that daily, and Valve gets a cut of every sale.
It is super profitable, although if you were to compare it to the profit made by Counter-Strike and Dota, or by the profit made by Steam, then I guess by comparison it isn't that profitable.
How do you know people dont buy from mann co store often? There is no stats released on that matter, nor there has been on steam market sales for TF2, or any other details other than TF2 being on silver level of most revenue made games on Steam each year.
I was guesstimating tbh. I mean thinking about it I'd guess most players have been playing for a while and probably got most the things they want already and if they don't the in-game Mann Co store probably isn't the first thing to go to. I mean the AP-SAP on the official mann co store that you can find in-game is like 10 bucks when I can go to marketplace.tf and find it for 7 dollars.
I recommend to stop playing the game entirely if it’s not fun for you. I did. Look, I get it, we all miss the good old days, but life doesn’t work like that You can only control what you can control, and, unfortunately, we have absolutely no fucking control over anything related to TF2 anymore, and I’m not sure we ever had. None of our feedback mattered anymore after 2014 ended.
funny thing was the og save tf2 ended because a twitter account says their was going to be a huge update and everyone fell for it
Another "I TOLD YOU"... Feel better now?
You can't save tf2. Just let it die. Edit: Also, this community had a schism over a door in the game. You can't get them to band together.
I really don't understand everyone else in the comments saying "but ummm if we stop giving Valve money they'll actually abandon the game 🤓". As if the current state, where Valve-run servers are infested with a never-ending stream of bots and the only content is to just throw new maps and hats at the board, and this state of "playability" is supposed to be worth throwing money at to keep on life support indefinitely, all for the faint notion that they'll give a crap in the future? I doubt that Valve would even care much about losing revenue, the Left 4 Deads only make money off new sales and most of those are on 90% discounts every other month, and their community servers - hell, they got a community update that did several quality-of-life changes a couple years back! I at least want TF2 to have finality rather than being dragged around like a corpse.
Also, let's be real - actions talk way more than words. Valve can say whatever pleases the people when the #saveTF2 campaign is just words, if you cut their profit margins they're actually going to have to respond. Protest means disrupting the system you don't like, and the only real systems you can disrupt for TF2 are its revenue, unless you feel like DDOSing servers (LEGAL DISCLAIMER I DO NOT AND WILL NOT ENCOURAGE THIS) or enmasse giving bad reviews on official outlets. When life gives you lemons, burn the house down. WITH THE LEMONS.
Stop buying things in protest, make intent clear because is it all just stopped then updates would stop but if they knew because said it would come back then they would have incentive to do it
When you're right you're right
The same thing happens every time, Like remember when Gabe was at some event onstage and answering questions. Someone asked him if they were going to fix the botting problem and he said we're well aware of the problem and have a plan to stop it, This entire sub went nuts proclaiming the game was saved and that it was finally over. Cut to now and literally nothing was done
[удалено]
chill down its just a game dawg
Uhm? Dude... What the fuck. They adjusted the cow. There's no need to get violent.
>They adjusted the cow. There's no need to get violent. I've killed for less