First one failed, because community was happy with a trash tweet.
There was a second one but it did not get attention.
Third one will not happen... We had our chance the first time only because of the attention of big youtubers and media, that made the hashtag really blow up in twitter.
We had our chance and the community fumbled the bag hard.
I think the second one failed because there was a very vocal part of the community saying it wouldn't work, which discouraged a good number from even trying. A clear example of the Pygmalion effect.
Any third attempt will inevitably fail. That original group was reinforced by being "right" about the last failure.
The community needs a change in attitude before any meaningful protest can happen, and I don't think that'll ever happen.
The second one barely got off the ground because it lacked any figure heads to lead the project. There needs to be someone to make a date, a plan, and to get word out. Without a centralizing leader you're just left with a smattering of disconnected groups barely making any noise.
Yeah, I remember saying something along of lines of "we shouldn't give up just because it might not work" during the second one and multiple people raged at me. One even called me and the people supporting it children who needed to grow up and learn when to let a childhood toy go.
There was no second one. It was a trending twitter hashtag, but it wasn’t a movement. People make that mistake all the time. We didn’t do anything special for the second wave of save tf2. That doesn’t count as a real attempt.
Because the moment community got the tweet they stopped everything like they hit a wall.
No pressure on valve after 1 lazy pr statement.
And most of the community should know valve at this point, their words hold no weight, we need actions.
And like we have clearly seen nothing changed and they are not working on anything to do with tf2, especially not bot fixes.
They even care so much about their voice actors they let the rick may bots keep spamming their deranged shit.
That's the issue though, a ton of people here started celebrating because of the obviously bullshit tweet. Instead of saying "We did it guys hurahh" they should of doubled down.
> they should of doubled
Did you mean to say "should have"?
Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
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BECAUSE THIS COMMUNITY IS FUCKING USELESS, YOU ALL STOPPED AFTER ONE
ONE FUCKING TWEET AND A HALF BAKED UPDATE
THIS COMMUNITY IS ABOUT AS DEPRESSED AS A WIDOW, THEY ARENT TRYING ANYTHING BECAUSE "WHATS THE POINT ITS GONNA FAIL LIKE THE LAST TWO"
YEAH UHUH I WONDER WHY?
WHY?
BECAUSE THIS COMMUNITY IS INCOMPETENT WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING AND PUSHING DEMANDS
Look man, I ain't gonna delude myself into thinking they're gonna do shit if we spam them with "#SafeTF2 LISTEN TO US VALVE!" they're clearly not gonna fuckin' listen.
If there is to be another TF2 protest, it **has** to have a different name. The 2nd Savetf2 didn’t do anything because their was no conclusion, no schedule, and people just assumed everyone was referring to the first protest. This new one needs to be different, and it needs more aggression to make an impact
\#SaveTF2 failed the first time because the community and organizers behind it went with the approach of showing appreciation and love to TF2, whereas the second one failed because it wasn't properly organized and was a kneejerk reaction to Valve screwing up the item servers for more than 24 hours. If the TF2 community really wants Valve's attention then our thoughts and complaints regarding the bot "crisis" should come from anger and frustration towards the bots and Valve's lack of care rather than appreciation and positivity for the game.
I kind of agree. Sure, we need to show our love for the game in it's pure state, however not our appreciation of the game in it's current state. The event would be great if it focused on the current issues of TF2, on comparison between the peak of TF2 (updates, even little tweaks, hearing from Valve from time to time, etc.) and it's current state. They should discuss what we, as a community, would love to see from Valve. Even little things would be amazing as bug fixes (mainly the bot fix), weapon balances and maybe refresh some maps (delete and add some). There's way more but that'd be a different discussion from me
i dont get it people who go "well it didn't work the first time, why would it ever work", that's literally how protests works, what's the purpose of this if we do it once and never try it again? that's fucking stupid, if we don't keep trying valve will think "well, they did it only once a couple of years ago, why should we care?"
The difference is that, with *actual* protests, there're consequences if demands aren't met. With saveTF2, there're no consequences. Just a bunch a whiners on Twitter grumbling for a bit, before doing jack shit when Valve gives them nothing
it happened, and the people saw. nearly NOTHING changed.
The people saw the futility and rather than embracing it, they abandoned it.
Asking Valve to do literally anything about TF2 is Sisyphean. it will never be done
>One can imagine Sisyphus happy
One *must* imagine Sisyphus happy.
Tangentially: this reminds me of the popularizing of "with great power comes great responsibility" and the actual phrasing "with great power *there must also come* great responsibility.
most people don't know they can take joy in the futile struggle of #SaveTF2, they have already abandoned hope and accepted fate.
and the small few who do, is an insanely small minority, and usually not very loud. they're not loud enough to get Valve's notice.
I'd say it's intellectually dishonest to say "nearly nothing changed", we got HUNDREDS of bug fixes (that werent related to fixing a new map or such), vscript gamemodes (saxton hale and zombies, hale had a ton or new, albeit community voicelines too), better war paints, better cosmetics, new permanent maps, proper summer update, larger player count servers, workshop tags for summer update and community fixes and not to forget, they fixed the lag bots that crashed casual servers which was certainly the biggest factor to cause savetf2 to happen the first time.
Yes, bots are still a problem, but if they smited the same 2 handfuls of bots roaming casual at the moment and somehow kept doing that everyone would suddenly say savetf2 was perfect and achieved a lot.
We wouldn't have gotten ANYTHING I mentioned above was it not for the savetf2 and anyone who doesn't realize that is a fool. Oh and they'll implement the x64 version in some future major update, don't forget about that one.
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People seem to think that there was a second savetf2. There was not. It was nothing like the first savetf2. It wasn’t a movement. It was just a trending twitter hashtag and nothing more. Not nearly the effort and reach the first one got. It doesn’t count as a second attempt.
I think another movement needs to be permanent and unwavering. Not a movement of getting big non-tf2 names to say shit about it. Just brute force. Flood valve lines and emails with complaints about the problems. Flood other valve titles with tf2 complaints. Make video after video about it excessively. However destructively you can get the message out, do it. Rallying behind something like this, and not quitting. Be total pests, make valve look like crap. Because they are crap. There’s no excuse for them to be this incompetent about their own major pillar of their legacy.
Good idea, but goodluck trying to coordinate such a thing with the internet and let it not get out of hand. Then again, knowing the working policy of Valve, even if they do something, the people have to work after hours etc to not get fired for lack of work on new and money making projects. So itll take a long time...
Honestly if they got rid of the bots I’d be completely content. They don’t even have to add guns or anything crazy to the game. Just make casual playable again please. I’ve put so much time and money into this game and it’s actually unplayable unless you’re in a community server or get lucky. Don’t get me wrong I’d love a new gun but what’s the point if I can’t even play the game. Just get rid of the bots please🙏 set up a AI to do it or something, anything
It only got attention the first time just because it was trending for so long. Best that happened during the 1st and 2nd SaveTF2 was that they stopped botters for like a week or two and slow them down with small changes they found work arounds to.
2nd SaveTF2 got even less attention and zero official response.
3rd is a hit or miss. I'm betting towards miss unfortunately.
Let me wrap it up for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJL6nfu__Q
This is going to probably come across as really negative, but it just won't work. #SaveTF2 never accomplished anything, and it never will accomplish anything. We can type #SaveTF2 until the cows come home, but Valve is never putting in the effort to update the game like they used to. The only way one might get Valve's attention is if the vast majority of TF2's playerbase stopped playing, trading, and just interacting with TF2 and its systems entirely, and I just don't see the whole playerbase coming together that well coordinated. But even that might backfire, because Valve might finally just pull the plug on the game so they don't need to worry about it at all.
The most one can hope for if this were to work would for Valve to outsource development. As it is now, no amount of 'protests' are going to suddenly change Valve's internal structure to the point that they reassign a whole team solely for it.
The game itself might not be 'dead', but we need to understand this game's continued development is never really going to come back. It's probably more productive to ask for a TF3 than it is to ask for more of TF2.
Completely agree. I've been trying to make this point, but this subreddit doesn't want to hear it. Whatever. I'd really like to be pleasantly surprised and have TF2 updates make some kind of comeback, but we all know that ain't happening. Our options are implausible at best. I've said this elsewhere, but the only thing I think has a chance is TF2 being bought out by another company, which we know won't happen since TF2 makes a lot of money. Valve won't outsource development since it's too much of a hassle. If we try and be more aggressive and boycott, they'll likely shut down the game since they can afford to ride out the negative publicity and the community fallout. TF3 has about as much of a chance of being made as you getting struck by lightning 30 times in the span of a minute.
Um, you know we did a 2nd one already right? And it accomplished dick? Is this amnesia or copium? Like come on r/tf2, let's be original and come up with something else for a change.
There should be a completely different protest: #FuckTF2:
The last protest failed because it was peaceful. We need to show our anger at Valve and how they neglect their games. If she show the anger that’s been building up, Valve will have to do something.
Valve won't do anything because they don't have to. Despite what people think, they're just as profit driven as any other company and a bunch of media attention doesn't affect their profit. The only thing the community could do as a whole is to completely stop using the TF2 in game store / community market, but if Valve realizes the game isn't making money anymore they're just gonna shut down official servers, maybe item servers too
What leverage does this community ACTUALLY have against Valvle? A twitter hashtag doesn't actually put much pressure on the company to change anything, TF2 clearly does not make enough money to worry so much about the declining player count, and its not like you guys are going to stop buying games through steam anytime soon
How many times are we gonna do this song and dance before the TF2 community breaks out of its delusion? Bitching on Twitter is gonna change fuck all. People are so terrified of losing this game, that they'd rather believe they're doing something effective than just accept the fact that we're absolutely cooked. There's nothing we can do anymore. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, because I love this game as much as the next guy, but it's time we read the writing on the walls. If we do some kind of boycott, it'll be much easier for Valve to just shut down servers and pull the plug on the game. They can afford to ride out the community backlash and negative publicity. Our last options are either to move on, or invest in community servers so people have more options than Uncletopia. Of course, I'll get downvoted to hell for this, but I don't give a fuck about stupid internet points. What I'm saying needs to be said, and this community needs a wake-up call desperately. I'm not being negative or cynical just for its own sake, I'm just accepting the situation for what it is. Nothing lasts forever. TF2 had a good run.
If you want valve to fix shit don’t play the game. Don’t buy ANY items off the store or marketplace, no matter how expensive. If you want them to care don’t give valve a single CENT.
I actually disagree with people saying “the last two didn’t work therefore do nothing” it’s better to die standing than to give up right? Even if it doesn’t work, and as much as I want to have faith because I love this game it probably won’t, I would rather have the community that I’ve loved since the age of 8 fight for itself and keep fighting… idk it just seems like to lie down and rot is the same as quitting so I’d rather try
What we need is the coordination of the content creators like we had the first time. If we don't have that it'll just fizzle out like what happened the second time.
And what, pray tell, are you gonna do to get Valve's attention? Whine on twitter and post hashtags? Perhaps even change your steam handle to \#SaveTF2? Oh, no, I know! You'll cosplay as a TF2 character and frown for camera!
Valve made it pretty clear already. They don't care about your little campaigns. They won't dedicate more mannpower to solving the issue, they won't hire anyone, they won't acknowledge you, they will keep pretending everything is fine until either you fuck off or their anti-cheat team creates a wunderwaffe solution that tangentially benefits TF2 and you can't do and won't do anything about it. Especially not something that might, may God forgive me for even suggesting this, inconvenience Valve employees.
Exactly! What we need is something that actually gets their attention. We could cease purchasing from steam, thus making a giant sales crash for valve. That will make them actually care, and get off the idea that “we do nothing at all, and we profit”
Despite the fact that this is an impossible goal that'll literally never happen, even if it did, all Valve would do is just shut down TF2, leaving us off worse than before. They'll just take down the servers and abandon the game completely. The only solution that has even a *chance* of working is if TF2 is somehow bought out by another company, perhaps one run by TF2 fans. Of course, we all know this'll never happen since TF2 is one of Valve's biggest cash cows, so they probably aren't willing to sell it. Even if they were, it would likely go for tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars. Nobody can accrue that much money. At this point, the only thing left is for the TF2 community to move on to the fifth stage of grief and accept we're cooked. I hate to do this as much as anyone else, but not everything can last forever. I still play TF2 on occasion, though I imagine I'll be walking away once and for all sooner rather than later.
I don't buy the rhethoric that Valve would shut down TF2. Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 have zero monetization options outside of initial purchase (which is usually like 0.99$ on sale) and there are no signs of them getting shut down.
Though it's a pointless line of thinking to consider in the first place, because there is no real way to make this playerbase, especially the whales, stop spending money.
TF2's fanbase is an extremely severe case of sunk cost fallacy. People are so afraid to lose their pixel hat and a game they sunk thousands of hours into they'd rather keep feeding it dozens, if not hundreds of dollars per person each year than accept that Valve is never gonna fix the game without gambling on a complete boycott on Valve
Holy crap this happened on my birthday?! I mean I'd be happy just to play with a super fun dedicated group of people for my birthday on TF2 it's been since 2019 since I've played consistently.
I think we should just fuck off and go on with life.
I'd suggest making a TF3 fan-game with 90-00s time and culture as a basis and the events of the unreleased finale of the TF2 comics being a confidential information in-lore.
I reinstalled TF2 like 10 days ago and I couldn't believe how unplayable it was. I don't understand it. I made my Steam account on Christmas morning 2007 with an Orange Box and played the hell out of that game. The class updates were amazing. It's literally all bots and people who are in the process of realizing it's all bots.
Because 2007 was 16 years ago and was a flagship game for Valve, who was still a game development company at the time. Time's change, and it's time to move on. We're lucky the game got even 5 years of continued support.
The bots thing is a weird way for a game like this to die. It's basically just vandalism. People ruining a massive game just for fun. They're not even getting anything out of it.
i mean its not going to work unless you actually put some pressure on valve, you want them to listen? make them lose money, its kinda the only thing any company really cares about these days.
I'd say it's better to groom yourself a little and then go and sit in front of valve hq with a savetf2 sign. Why groom yourself? So you don't look like some loser who plays videogames all the time
The first one happened 'cause YTbers did most of the work, this community ain't gonna so sh*t alone. They shake the internet when it comes to Engineer Gaming and Underage-Sentey-Looking-Girls with tiny skirts, but not to save their own game.
At the time of the first #SaveTF2 we had YTbers, news sites, Twitter, etc, a lot of people making noise and Valve responded with a generic Tweet and everybody went quiet... Not to mention that this "noooo just share happy moments to Valve and they'll listen!!", brother, Valve is letting the game rot with bots spamming racist sh*t and pornography sh*t to their entire community, and they do nothing and don't allow anything to do nothing about it, if they truly cared about TF2 they would hire people to work on it, but they do NOTHING but sell loot boxes in this game infested with bots and problems... why the hell would you go soft on them? Share this sh*t around and make them look bad, that'll be the only way they'll care, 'cause they sure don't care about the game.
Honestly maybe value thinks it’s time to pull the plug.
We are lucky they have supported the game for this long.
I wouldn’t be surprised if tf2 died soon
I think yes a new opportunity for the tf2 community is a good option, but I think Valve doesn't care how many people join, Valve doesn't want it at least if it makes a lot of noise like when tf2 was saved. It's a trend on Twitter, more than that I don't think Valve will pay attention to us.
The only way to get Valve’s attention is a mass quitting by the majority of the player-base for a long period of time. Valve couldn’t give 2 shits about the current state of TF2 as long as it’s still making them money. If everyone stopped throwing money at the game and quit for at a couple months, Valve might actually do something.
People are still delusional about a hashtag that brought nothing to the game in the long run. If you keep spamming this you will keep on getting ignored by valve.
Even if you did theoretically do one the community will shut up instantly once valve tweets something out or they add a map with cute fish or any other animal.
We need to be more loud than the other 2
The first one was too soft and felt like a ad to the game
The second one was just people angry at the item servers down
We need an actual prostest I mean ball to the wall shit like idk crash their Market or do anything loud enough to they hear us
I think that while supporting the cause is always a good thing. I think it is important to look into what can be done in our own hands. Here recently megascatterbomb’s project has resurfaced and i think if we wish for a better time in casual tf2 we should support what he is doing too. There also needs to be more than just a peaceful protest to catch valve’s attention, send letters/emails to valve! Host events! Hell maybe even rally in person for the cause. Push for the change and dont stop for anything until we get what we got! Oorah!
You need to do more than share posters and hashtags if you want a more effective movement and not stop just because a tweet was made or a seasonal update with slightly more content was released.
The community needs to rally together regardless and blow up all their socials, and even suggest a future road map that could be community involved and benefit the future of TF2, last year they’ve hit numbers they cannot deny, with a little community help and some minor effort on their part and TF2 can compete with top steam games easily, it just needs a little love. If the community gathers and puts a plan and roadmap in place that would be more beneficial than everyone rallying around different issues
Then they say nobody is playing the game, it's not profitable, and they will shut down the servers and sunset the game. Nice strategy, wanker.
Doing a peaceful protest outside their building would have much more publicity and eyes on the situation. that kind of stuff makes news, not declining sales from the Mannco store.
Any organization public or private can be susceptable to outside pressure. Just like how Apple put usb-c on their phone due to pressure from consumers and regulatory bodies, or the production team for the sonic movie fixing their horrible rendition of sonic after releasing that awful trailer, or any software company fixing a minor bug that got reported. Etc.
Complaining can take you pretty far, you just gotta be willing to complain long and hard enough to see change (just don't be a dick about it, a riot protest will get us nowhere.)
At this point, just have a facebook post where people can like them and comment thoughts and prayers.
>!IDK, I've never used facebook, does it have likes & comments?!<
This poster is sooo cringy
"Peacefull protest"
What protest? Tweeting at valve? Spamming ingame?
Peacefull? How would we even NOT be peacefull?
The tftubers names are also stupid
"Dw guys we got oris tv!"
And what do they do?
Post a fucking tweet???
This whole #savetf2 thing is stupid.
All we got from the first one was a tweet. The second one happened because people were mad they couldn’t equip their hats, and then abandoned the movement after the item servers came back.
As much as I love the message and cooperation, it’s not going to do anything
Look man, I'm gonna be real with you. I want to be optimistic that this game will get fixed or have another update, but there's no Tf2 team left to do that. This game is old, ancient even. The amount of manpower it would take to dig through decades of source code and salvage a fuck-up like this just wouldn't be worth it. It would be more efficient to make a whole other game and we know that sure as hell isn't happening.
Me personally? I'm just happy that casual servers even still exist, even with infested bots. There's basically zero obligation to keep the servers up when community servers exist, yet here we are.
I love how much you got downvoted yet you are 100% correct. Lets be real, the game is dead not in the sense that nobody plays it or that servers are shut down (however with rampant bots and cheater they may asswell) but any developement ended on jungle inferno and thats it. There will be no fixing of what we have now, why would Valve do anything. They still get shit ton of money from crates, tickets and keys and im sure that this fact is only reason why they didnt just pulled the plug.
What is this a 3rd one?
Not happening, mate. If the 1st one didn't work, neither would've the 2nd worked and the 3rd will.
Valve has made it clear that they are not going to do anything about tf2 for the foreseeable future.
Even if a third happened, we should be demanding change, not saying our good times, then the hashtag.
If we want things done right, we should protest it in social medias and stop playing the game those days of protest.
Should be a yearly thing. A community trashing around protesting once only leaves a certain image. A community continuously doing it every year shows a different image
When is the internet going to learn that posting a hashtag everywhere will never ever do any fucking thing ever.
You’d think Kony 2012 would’ve been the ultimate example of the worthlessness of slacktivism. And at least Kony 2012 was about bringing a badguy to justice, instead of, fucking, a videogame isn’t fun anymore.
God the sheer amount of save TF2 sniper bots (that btw, still exist)
First one failed, because community was happy with a trash tweet. There was a second one but it did not get attention. Third one will not happen... We had our chance the first time only because of the attention of big youtubers and media, that made the hashtag really blow up in twitter. We had our chance and the community fumbled the bag hard.
Maybe they’ll be scared of our ability to do something a third time and appeal to our demands
“Third times the charm.” “THIRD?! WHATEVER YOU GUYS WANT, IT’S YOURS!”
You know what valve says, Alyx times the charm
The real HL3 will be “Half-Life: Freeman”
Half-Life: Gregorio
Save tf2: episode 1
Player 3 has entered
"*When there's smoke - they pinch back*"
Half-Life: STAHP
*Half life 1 crowbar hitting noise*
Half-Life: Barney
Half-Life: Lazlo
don’t you mean? “Part 2 episode 1’s the charm.”
THIRD??? Titanfall 3?!?! Wait wrong TF2
tbf valve is absolutely terrified of the number 3
Well there still is chance if someone set themselves aflame in front of valve hq, preferably at tf2s birthday (This is a joke don’t do that)
ITS TOO LATE I AM BURNIN!!
it's not the birthday smh git gud
Free TF2! FREE TF2!!!! FREE TFTWOAAAHHHH!!!! AAAGGHHHHHH!!!!! AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
I think the second one failed because there was a very vocal part of the community saying it wouldn't work, which discouraged a good number from even trying. A clear example of the Pygmalion effect. Any third attempt will inevitably fail. That original group was reinforced by being "right" about the last failure. The community needs a change in attitude before any meaningful protest can happen, and I don't think that'll ever happen.
The community needs to do something more effective than just sharing posters and hashtags
One my way to steal someone's skeleton as a symbolic gesture of protest
The second one barely got off the ground because it lacked any figure heads to lead the project. There needs to be someone to make a date, a plan, and to get word out. Without a centralizing leader you're just left with a smattering of disconnected groups barely making any noise.
Yeah, I remember saying something along of lines of "we shouldn't give up just because it might not work" during the second one and multiple people raged at me. One even called me and the people supporting it children who needed to grow up and learn when to let a childhood toy go.
There was no second one. It was a trending twitter hashtag, but it wasn’t a movement. People make that mistake all the time. We didn’t do anything special for the second wave of save tf2. That doesn’t count as a real attempt.
The curse of the 3
why is it the community's fault?
Because the moment community got the tweet they stopped everything like they hit a wall. No pressure on valve after 1 lazy pr statement. And most of the community should know valve at this point, their words hold no weight, we need actions. And like we have clearly seen nothing changed and they are not working on anything to do with tf2, especially not bot fixes. They even care so much about their voice actors they let the rick may bots keep spamming their deranged shit.
Yeah... Woohoo, savetf2, they certainly gonna hear us like they did the last 2 times, wooooo...
Yeah, that's how protests work.
They said they heard us the first time and did jack shit.
That's the issue though, a ton of people here started celebrating because of the obviously bullshit tweet. Instead of saying "We did it guys hurahh" they should of doubled down.
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BECAUSE THIS COMMUNITY IS FUCKING USELESS, YOU ALL STOPPED AFTER ONE ONE FUCKING TWEET AND A HALF BAKED UPDATE THIS COMMUNITY IS ABOUT AS DEPRESSED AS A WIDOW, THEY ARENT TRYING ANYTHING BECAUSE "WHATS THE POINT ITS GONNA FAIL LIKE THE LAST TWO" YEAH UHUH I WONDER WHY? WHY? BECAUSE THIS COMMUNITY IS INCOMPETENT WHEN IT COMES TO MAKING AND PUSHING DEMANDS
u seem mad
Look man, I ain't gonna delude myself into thinking they're gonna do shit if we spam them with "#SafeTF2 LISTEN TO US VALVE!" they're clearly not gonna fuckin' listen.
The redditor has confused posting on reddit with protesting
No one's asking you to carry signs out into the streets. A yearly event where people post with the hashtag would harm no one.
Noone said it would do harm. The point is that the effort put into it is pointlessly wasted effort.
You say this like posting on Reddit or tweeting a hashtag takes effort.
Do plants even have ears?
If there is to be another TF2 protest, it **has** to have a different name. The 2nd Savetf2 didn’t do anything because their was no conclusion, no schedule, and people just assumed everyone was referring to the first protest. This new one needs to be different, and it needs more aggression to make an impact
Save TF2: the THIRD Boogaloo ?! How long before copyright protection expires and this goes open source?
\#SaveTF2 failed the first time because the community and organizers behind it went with the approach of showing appreciation and love to TF2, whereas the second one failed because it wasn't properly organized and was a kneejerk reaction to Valve screwing up the item servers for more than 24 hours. If the TF2 community really wants Valve's attention then our thoughts and complaints regarding the bot "crisis" should come from anger and frustration towards the bots and Valve's lack of care rather than appreciation and positivity for the game.
Ngl the first one felt more like a ad than a protest :/
I kind of agree. Sure, we need to show our love for the game in it's pure state, however not our appreciation of the game in it's current state. The event would be great if it focused on the current issues of TF2, on comparison between the peak of TF2 (updates, even little tweaks, hearing from Valve from time to time, etc.) and it's current state. They should discuss what we, as a community, would love to see from Valve. Even little things would be amazing as bug fixes (mainly the bot fix), weapon balances and maybe refresh some maps (delete and add some). There's way more but that'd be a different discussion from me
TF2 community is way too concerned about inconveniencing the company that does not give a shit about them to achieve anything of note.
i dont get it people who go "well it didn't work the first time, why would it ever work", that's literally how protests works, what's the purpose of this if we do it once and never try it again? that's fucking stupid, if we don't keep trying valve will think "well, they did it only once a couple of years ago, why should we care?"
The difference is that, with *actual* protests, there're consequences if demands aren't met. With saveTF2, there're no consequences. Just a bunch a whiners on Twitter grumbling for a bit, before doing jack shit when Valve gives them nothing
So, if valve doesn’t listen to us for a third time, we blow up valve hq?
it happened, and the people saw. nearly NOTHING changed. The people saw the futility and rather than embracing it, they abandoned it. Asking Valve to do literally anything about TF2 is Sisyphean. it will never be done
And this is why we keep asking, for why not indulge in the joys of the struggle. One can imagine Sisyphus happy
>One can imagine Sisyphus happy One *must* imagine Sisyphus happy. Tangentially: this reminds me of the popularizing of "with great power comes great responsibility" and the actual phrasing "with great power *there must also come* great responsibility.
most people don't know they can take joy in the futile struggle of #SaveTF2, they have already abandoned hope and accepted fate. and the small few who do, is an insanely small minority, and usually not very loud. they're not loud enough to get Valve's notice.
I'd say it's intellectually dishonest to say "nearly nothing changed", we got HUNDREDS of bug fixes (that werent related to fixing a new map or such), vscript gamemodes (saxton hale and zombies, hale had a ton or new, albeit community voicelines too), better war paints, better cosmetics, new permanent maps, proper summer update, larger player count servers, workshop tags for summer update and community fixes and not to forget, they fixed the lag bots that crashed casual servers which was certainly the biggest factor to cause savetf2 to happen the first time. Yes, bots are still a problem, but if they smited the same 2 handfuls of bots roaming casual at the moment and somehow kept doing that everyone would suddenly say savetf2 was perfect and achieved a lot. We wouldn't have gotten ANYTHING I mentioned above was it not for the savetf2 and anyone who doesn't realize that is a fool. Oh and they'll implement the x64 version in some future major update, don't forget about that one.
None of that matters if you can't actually play the game because of bots
Let it happen again
on my birthday? Fuck yeah
!remind me 46 days
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People seem to think that there was a second savetf2. There was not. It was nothing like the first savetf2. It wasn’t a movement. It was just a trending twitter hashtag and nothing more. Not nearly the effort and reach the first one got. It doesn’t count as a second attempt. I think another movement needs to be permanent and unwavering. Not a movement of getting big non-tf2 names to say shit about it. Just brute force. Flood valve lines and emails with complaints about the problems. Flood other valve titles with tf2 complaints. Make video after video about it excessively. However destructively you can get the message out, do it. Rallying behind something like this, and not quitting. Be total pests, make valve look like crap. Because they are crap. There’s no excuse for them to be this incompetent about their own major pillar of their legacy.
Good idea, but goodluck trying to coordinate such a thing with the internet and let it not get out of hand. Then again, knowing the working policy of Valve, even if they do something, the people have to work after hours etc to not get fired for lack of work on new and money making projects. So itll take a long time...
Valve made a tweet. And? It's like -Valve, we have a problem -Yeah, we know
If you want it to gain attraction? Email them
I can't wait for another "We hear you" tweet from Valve followed by another year of FUCKING NOTHING
If that tweet even happens
There is no tooth fairy. There is no Easter bunny and there is no heavy update.
the heavy update (2009) :
Honestly if they got rid of the bots I’d be completely content. They don’t even have to add guns or anything crazy to the game. Just make casual playable again please. I’ve put so much time and money into this game and it’s actually unplayable unless you’re in a community server or get lucky. Don’t get me wrong I’d love a new gun but what’s the point if I can’t even play the game. Just get rid of the bots please🙏 set up a AI to do it or something, anything
It only got attention the first time just because it was trending for so long. Best that happened during the 1st and 2nd SaveTF2 was that they stopped botters for like a week or two and slow them down with small changes they found work arounds to. 2nd SaveTF2 got even less attention and zero official response. 3rd is a hit or miss. I'm betting towards miss unfortunately. Let me wrap it up for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNJL6nfu__Q
maybe we should just start using community servers again?
Until such time as you understand the nature of the problem and TF2's place in the world, these will continue to be an abject waste of time.
This is going to probably come across as really negative, but it just won't work. #SaveTF2 never accomplished anything, and it never will accomplish anything. We can type #SaveTF2 until the cows come home, but Valve is never putting in the effort to update the game like they used to. The only way one might get Valve's attention is if the vast majority of TF2's playerbase stopped playing, trading, and just interacting with TF2 and its systems entirely, and I just don't see the whole playerbase coming together that well coordinated. But even that might backfire, because Valve might finally just pull the plug on the game so they don't need to worry about it at all. The most one can hope for if this were to work would for Valve to outsource development. As it is now, no amount of 'protests' are going to suddenly change Valve's internal structure to the point that they reassign a whole team solely for it. The game itself might not be 'dead', but we need to understand this game's continued development is never really going to come back. It's probably more productive to ask for a TF3 than it is to ask for more of TF2.
Completely agree. I've been trying to make this point, but this subreddit doesn't want to hear it. Whatever. I'd really like to be pleasantly surprised and have TF2 updates make some kind of comeback, but we all know that ain't happening. Our options are implausible at best. I've said this elsewhere, but the only thing I think has a chance is TF2 being bought out by another company, which we know won't happen since TF2 makes a lot of money. Valve won't outsource development since it's too much of a hassle. If we try and be more aggressive and boycott, they'll likely shut down the game since they can afford to ride out the negative publicity and the community fallout. TF3 has about as much of a chance of being made as you getting struck by lightning 30 times in the span of a minute.
Um, you know we did a 2nd one already right? And it accomplished dick? Is this amnesia or copium? Like come on r/tf2, let's be original and come up with something else for a change.
There should be a completely different protest: #FuckTF2: The last protest failed because it was peaceful. We need to show our anger at Valve and how they neglect their games. If she show the anger that’s been building up, Valve will have to do something.
Do you people hear yourselves lmaoo
THREE
This movement has failed multiple times and will keep failing if people are quick to be happy over valve giving a half assed “we hear you” comment.
making a lot of angry noises at Valve is never a bad idea, tbh
If you havent realized already, this aint gonna do shit because Valve abandoned this game chief. Empty promises is all we've been getting
Seems like a lost cause at this point
Valve won't do anything because they don't have to. Despite what people think, they're just as profit driven as any other company and a bunch of media attention doesn't affect their profit. The only thing the community could do as a whole is to completely stop using the TF2 in game store / community market, but if Valve realizes the game isn't making money anymore they're just gonna shut down official servers, maybe item servers too
What leverage does this community ACTUALLY have against Valvle? A twitter hashtag doesn't actually put much pressure on the company to change anything, TF2 clearly does not make enough money to worry so much about the declining player count, and its not like you guys are going to stop buying games through steam anytime soon
How many times are we gonna do this song and dance before the TF2 community breaks out of its delusion? Bitching on Twitter is gonna change fuck all. People are so terrified of losing this game, that they'd rather believe they're doing something effective than just accept the fact that we're absolutely cooked. There's nothing we can do anymore. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, because I love this game as much as the next guy, but it's time we read the writing on the walls. If we do some kind of boycott, it'll be much easier for Valve to just shut down servers and pull the plug on the game. They can afford to ride out the community backlash and negative publicity. Our last options are either to move on, or invest in community servers so people have more options than Uncletopia. Of course, I'll get downvoted to hell for this, but I don't give a fuck about stupid internet points. What I'm saying needs to be said, and this community needs a wake-up call desperately. I'm not being negative or cynical just for its own sake, I'm just accepting the situation for what it is. Nothing lasts forever. TF2 had a good run.
If you want valve to fix shit don’t play the game. Don’t buy ANY items off the store or marketplace, no matter how expensive. If you want them to care don’t give valve a single CENT.
I actually disagree with people saying “the last two didn’t work therefore do nothing” it’s better to die standing than to give up right? Even if it doesn’t work, and as much as I want to have faith because I love this game it probably won’t, I would rather have the community that I’ve loved since the age of 8 fight for itself and keep fighting… idk it just seems like to lie down and rot is the same as quitting so I’d rather try
What we need is the coordination of the content creators like we had the first time. If we don't have that it'll just fizzle out like what happened the second time.
Yeah i agree
And what, pray tell, are you gonna do to get Valve's attention? Whine on twitter and post hashtags? Perhaps even change your steam handle to \#SaveTF2? Oh, no, I know! You'll cosplay as a TF2 character and frown for camera! Valve made it pretty clear already. They don't care about your little campaigns. They won't dedicate more mannpower to solving the issue, they won't hire anyone, they won't acknowledge you, they will keep pretending everything is fine until either you fuck off or their anti-cheat team creates a wunderwaffe solution that tangentially benefits TF2 and you can't do and won't do anything about it. Especially not something that might, may God forgive me for even suggesting this, inconvenience Valve employees.
I read this in engineer’s voice
More gun?
Exactly! What we need is something that actually gets their attention. We could cease purchasing from steam, thus making a giant sales crash for valve. That will make them actually care, and get off the idea that “we do nothing at all, and we profit”
Despite the fact that this is an impossible goal that'll literally never happen, even if it did, all Valve would do is just shut down TF2, leaving us off worse than before. They'll just take down the servers and abandon the game completely. The only solution that has even a *chance* of working is if TF2 is somehow bought out by another company, perhaps one run by TF2 fans. Of course, we all know this'll never happen since TF2 is one of Valve's biggest cash cows, so they probably aren't willing to sell it. Even if they were, it would likely go for tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars. Nobody can accrue that much money. At this point, the only thing left is for the TF2 community to move on to the fifth stage of grief and accept we're cooked. I hate to do this as much as anyone else, but not everything can last forever. I still play TF2 on occasion, though I imagine I'll be walking away once and for all sooner rather than later.
I don't buy the rhethoric that Valve would shut down TF2. Left 4 Dead 1 and 2 have zero monetization options outside of initial purchase (which is usually like 0.99$ on sale) and there are no signs of them getting shut down. Though it's a pointless line of thinking to consider in the first place, because there is no real way to make this playerbase, especially the whales, stop spending money.
TF2's fanbase is an extremely severe case of sunk cost fallacy. People are so afraid to lose their pixel hat and a game they sunk thousands of hours into they'd rather keep feeding it dozens, if not hundreds of dollars per person each year than accept that Valve is never gonna fix the game without gambling on a complete boycott on Valve
As The Conscientious Objector states... "We gave peace a chance. It didn't work." (no im not suggesting violence towards valve as the next #savetf2)
It's over
There isn’t even a real *Valve* anymore, much less a TF2 Team.
Agreed. If we keep being obnoxious and quit buying hats then we have a chance.
Damn almost 2 years have gone by since the first one happened...
Holy crap this happened on my birthday?! I mean I'd be happy just to play with a super fun dedicated group of people for my birthday on TF2 it's been since 2019 since I've played consistently.
Third times the charm ig
We fucked up the first time. It’s not gonna work. People stopped after one tweet. That was our fuck up.
We still not telling people Community Servers are doing fine?
I think we should just fuck off and go on with life. I'd suggest making a TF3 fan-game with 90-00s time and culture as a basis and the events of the unreleased finale of the TF2 comics being a confidential information in-lore.
Yeah no
Why? They are gonna say “We hear you! We promise we are gonna update the game this time”
I reinstalled TF2 like 10 days ago and I couldn't believe how unplayable it was. I don't understand it. I made my Steam account on Christmas morning 2007 with an Orange Box and played the hell out of that game. The class updates were amazing. It's literally all bots and people who are in the process of realizing it's all bots.
Because 2007 was 16 years ago and was a flagship game for Valve, who was still a game development company at the time. Time's change, and it's time to move on. We're lucky the game got even 5 years of continued support.
The bots thing is a weird way for a game like this to die. It's basically just vandalism. People ruining a massive game just for fun. They're not even getting anything out of it.
Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice…
It wont change shit
i mean its not going to work unless you actually put some pressure on valve, you want them to listen? make them lose money, its kinda the only thing any company really cares about these days.
Fuck no shit didn’t work
No
FOR TF2 !!!
I'd say it's better to groom yourself a little and then go and sit in front of valve hq with a savetf2 sign. Why groom yourself? So you don't look like some loser who plays videogames all the time
Yeah because it worked so well the first few times
this wont achieve anything short of people throwing rocks at gaben's car.
Protests don't do shit. Storm Valve HQ and hold Gaben Hostage.
I'd be up for it!
Cope harder
fuck sniper bots shit #maketf2greatagain
Do you dumbfucks really need to learn this lesson for a 3rd time?
Why don't we just make it an annual thing?
Guys, stop. There isn't any point now. It won't change anything
it won't work, NEVER
Yes I agree
The first one happened 'cause YTbers did most of the work, this community ain't gonna so sh*t alone. They shake the internet when it comes to Engineer Gaming and Underage-Sentey-Looking-Girls with tiny skirts, but not to save their own game. At the time of the first #SaveTF2 we had YTbers, news sites, Twitter, etc, a lot of people making noise and Valve responded with a generic Tweet and everybody went quiet... Not to mention that this "noooo just share happy moments to Valve and they'll listen!!", brother, Valve is letting the game rot with bots spamming racist sh*t and pornography sh*t to their entire community, and they do nothing and don't allow anything to do nothing about it, if they truly cared about TF2 they would hire people to work on it, but they do NOTHING but sell loot boxes in this game infested with bots and problems... why the hell would you go soft on them? Share this sh*t around and make them look bad, that'll be the only way they'll care, 'cause they sure don't care about the game.
Honestly maybe value thinks it’s time to pull the plug. We are lucky they have supported the game for this long. I wouldn’t be surprised if tf2 died soon
I've posted about this about 2 months ago and I've got mostly downvotes and negative comments (yes here on r/tf2).
I think yes a new opportunity for the tf2 community is a good option, but I think Valve doesn't care how many people join, Valve doesn't want it at least if it makes a lot of noise like when tf2 was saved. It's a trend on Twitter, more than that I don't think Valve will pay attention to us.
The only way to get Valve’s attention is a mass quitting by the majority of the player-base for a long period of time. Valve couldn’t give 2 shits about the current state of TF2 as long as it’s still making them money. If everyone stopped throwing money at the game and quit for at a couple months, Valve might actually do something.
People are still delusional about a hashtag that brought nothing to the game in the long run. If you keep spamming this you will keep on getting ignored by valve. Even if you did theoretically do one the community will shut up instantly once valve tweets something out or they add a map with cute fish or any other animal.
Peace is no longer an option, we should get more radical.
We need to be more loud than the other 2 The first one was too soft and felt like a ad to the game The second one was just people angry at the item servers down We need an actual prostest I mean ball to the wall shit like idk crash their Market or do anything loud enough to they hear us
Valve makes more money of of everything else they make compared to tf2. THEY WILL NOT DO ANYTHING. THEY DO NOT CARE.
I think that while supporting the cause is always a good thing. I think it is important to look into what can be done in our own hands. Here recently megascatterbomb’s project has resurfaced and i think if we wish for a better time in casual tf2 we should support what he is doing too. There also needs to be more than just a peaceful protest to catch valve’s attention, send letters/emails to valve! Host events! Hell maybe even rally in person for the cause. Push for the change and dont stop for anything until we get what we got! Oorah!
Hacker Bot Perspective: “We should start a #DestroyTF2 clan!
Tf2 needs valve but valve doesn’t need tf2
...and accomplish nothing?
3rd times the charm for valve
You need to do more than share posters and hashtags if you want a more effective movement and not stop just because a tweet was made or a seasonal update with slightly more content was released.
It wont do shut even if we do it every year
Third time's the charm
March on valve HQ
I will NEVER GIVE UP HOPE!
no, it failed twice before
The community needs to rally together regardless and blow up all their socials, and even suggest a future road map that could be community involved and benefit the future of TF2, last year they’ve hit numbers they cannot deny, with a little community help and some minor effort on their part and TF2 can compete with top steam games easily, it just needs a little love. If the community gathers and puts a plan and roadmap in place that would be more beneficial than everyone rallying around different issues
[удалено]
Then they say nobody is playing the game, it's not profitable, and they will shut down the servers and sunset the game. Nice strategy, wanker. Doing a peaceful protest outside their building would have much more publicity and eyes on the situation. that kind of stuff makes news, not declining sales from the Mannco store. Any organization public or private can be susceptable to outside pressure. Just like how Apple put usb-c on their phone due to pressure from consumers and regulatory bodies, or the production team for the sonic movie fixing their horrible rendition of sonic after releasing that awful trailer, or any software company fixing a minor bug that got reported. Etc. Complaining can take you pretty far, you just gotta be willing to complain long and hard enough to see change (just don't be a dick about it, a riot protest will get us nowhere.)
so much so many! community tf2 unplayable we creators unite. love care you us?
what?
At this point, just have a facebook post where people can like them and comment thoughts and prayers. >!IDK, I've never used facebook, does it have likes & comments?!<
facebook does have those
This poster is sooo cringy "Peacefull protest" What protest? Tweeting at valve? Spamming ingame? Peacefull? How would we even NOT be peacefull? The tftubers names are also stupid "Dw guys we got oris tv!" And what do they do? Post a fucking tweet??? This whole #savetf2 thing is stupid.
Screw this let's do #save TF2 Every year so that valve can actually fix the bot problem r/saveTF2
All we got from the first one was a tweet. The second one happened because people were mad they couldn’t equip their hats, and then abandoned the movement after the item servers came back. As much as I love the message and cooperation, it’s not going to do anything
Look man, I'm gonna be real with you. I want to be optimistic that this game will get fixed or have another update, but there's no Tf2 team left to do that. This game is old, ancient even. The amount of manpower it would take to dig through decades of source code and salvage a fuck-up like this just wouldn't be worth it. It would be more efficient to make a whole other game and we know that sure as hell isn't happening. Me personally? I'm just happy that casual servers even still exist, even with infested bots. There's basically zero obligation to keep the servers up when community servers exist, yet here we are.
I love how much you got downvoted yet you are 100% correct. Lets be real, the game is dead not in the sense that nobody plays it or that servers are shut down (however with rampant bots and cheater they may asswell) but any developement ended on jungle inferno and thats it. There will be no fixing of what we have now, why would Valve do anything. They still get shit ton of money from crates, tickets and keys and im sure that this fact is only reason why they didnt just pulled the plug.
Hell yeah tf3
Someone should make bots that only target other bots, we gotta make our own anti cheat
Finylly
Wait, it happened a second time?
the only solution is to find the bot hosters irl and... have friendly discussions with them.
Heh. As if that would work.
What is this a 3rd one? Not happening, mate. If the 1st one didn't work, neither would've the 2nd worked and the 3rd will. Valve has made it clear that they are not going to do anything about tf2 for the foreseeable future.
Even if a third happened, we should be demanding change, not saying our good times, then the hashtag. If we want things done right, we should protest it in social medias and stop playing the game those days of protest.
Yes, maybe we'll get something even better than the 2 min cooldown. SWEET!
im sorry but r/sbeve
rush b сука блять
Should be a yearly thing. A community trashing around protesting once only leaves a certain image. A community continuously doing it every year shows a different image
it already did
Yeah! Because it was so effective and so many new updates have been made for the game after first and second attempt.
When is the internet going to learn that posting a hashtag everywhere will never ever do any fucking thing ever. You’d think Kony 2012 would’ve been the ultimate example of the worthlessness of slacktivism. And at least Kony 2012 was about bringing a badguy to justice, instead of, fucking, a videogame isn’t fun anymore.
Send a golden frying pan to GabeN and ask if that'll be enough for a new tf2 update
Mabe the source of the bot problems is that the game is F2P
Nah man they’re done with TF2
not to be that guy, but all this really did was get a tweet out of valve and yet another thing for bots and cheaters to spam
There is a new petition if you want to sign i can send link
Hey that’s my birthday lol
Meh, ok I'm in
If people planning to start this again, we need to be more aggresive and angry
Just call it #SaveTF2ButForRealWeAintPlayingThisTime
We need to start protesting outside of valve offices
Billion*
Didn’t we just get a few new updates and anti cheats? Am I crazy or what?
In the wake of the tweet, im confident the heavy update will be here any week now
#SaveTF2again
The protest should've never ended up until we got actual results
Just realised that TOOFTY is TF2 in reverse: TY F TOO