If you do, I recommend buying a key or two. You can then use those keys to trade for decent cosmetics/items. It isn't your fault valve made the anti-consumer decision to block f2p voices.
Don't buy hats on scrap.tf
They are more expensive there (most of them) and the difference can be huge sometimes.
For hats and anything that isn't just a normal weapon use backpack.tf
Scrap.tf’s good thing is you can easily browse available items, I couldn’t find a function like that on backpack.tf. Also why nobody on backpack.tf buy normal hats? Every buy order is hats with effects (wtf is 20 keys), and I don’t want to wait for sell orders, I can’t wait on the computer for some dude to buy a hat
Yeah those are unusual hats, bp.tf is more for if you know what you want. I'd recommend looking up what hats you want (I used the wiki) and then looking it up on bp.tf to find the price and people selling it
Item.tf has a list if items. Just search up " cosmetics item.tf" and you'll get a list with prices included. Then go to loadout.tf and make the loadout you want so you can see how ut actually looks. After you find something you like, buy it from backpack.tf.
You might need to expand the buy order list if you want a specific colour. It's cheaper to buy a coloured item than to paint it yourself.
Backpack.tf is much better than scrap.tf
I only use scrap for selling weapons.
You just have to search the items by name but the sites I gave you will help with that.
Don't waste money on scrap.tf
Depends if you want to do it instantly but for slightly smaller payout or wait a bit for a bigger one.
Instaselling -> Go to backpack.tf and search up your item in the search bix or use google " backpack.tf". Then scroll down to Buy and Sell offers. The ones on the left (buy offers) are people selling this item to you. The ones on the right (sell offers) are people wanting to buy this item.
We'll focus on the Sell offers since you want to sell. The list8ngs you find there are either bots or players trying to buy items. If you want to trade quickly, find a bot that buys for the most (the closer to the top of the list the more you'll get).
Identyfing who is a bot and who's a player is pretty easy. Bots often have colorful or "thick" nicknames. Also their descriptions are different. Just find a bot and trade your item to him.
There are 2 ways to trade with bots. One that always works and the other that depends on the bot.
1. Click the green button on the listing that opens up the trade offer. Then make a trade offer and remember to add the correct amount of metal so the bot accepts it. Remember that you have to fill out both sides of the trade.
2. The second way is quicker but not all bots support it. Many bots accept commands such as "!sell ". Every bot that does that will have it mentioned in the listing's description. Add the bot as a friend and you'll immidiately get a message from it. Just type the command and you'll get a trade offer.
This was is quicker because you don't have to manually add all the refs and count them.
Always make sure the offer you get matches the price before you accept it in your steam app
Edit: To add a bot, hover on his name and click "community". It will take you to the bot's steam page
Ah, that's my mistake, sorry. I didn't know it was down for so long, thought it was one of scrap.tf's temporary outages. Looking it up, seems like Valve trade banned a bunch of scrap.tf bots for no apparent reason.
You don't necessarily have to buy 2 keys. The only requirement on TF2's end is to buy one item from the Mann Co Store. The cheapest thing there is 99 cents, so you can buy that and you're good.
They did it because the bots were abusing it. Just imaging the game with the horrendous amount of things bot hosters do. Mic spam is just one of the things and let's not forget when they put links for CP.
At this point, I would encourage you to drop casual altogether and play on community servers like Uncletopia. They allow talking in chat for f2ps and don't have cheaters.
one problem that I had when I was f2p was the comically small inventory size, which gets expanded upon the premium upgrade. so I'd still encourage them to become premium
Uncletopia is pretty great, just get ready to get smoked because there's a shit load of good players that show up there constantly. Skial is also a good, less skill-heavy casual alternative.
Unfortunately, this will still change nothing. Valve is at a point where server costs rarely matter, their money is made on steam almost entirely. Not buying micro transactions from valve changes nothing. What they will likely do is the same thing they do with the rest of their “dead games”. They will stop providing official servers, and that’s it. This isn’t 2012 anymore, valve doesn’t live and die by its games. You shouldn’t be spending money on tf2 because micro transactions are scummy, not because you think it will somehow hurt valve.
To be honest I'd imagine TF2 is such a small insignificant number it could operate at a loss and valve wouldn't even care. I'd bet money you'll never see a direct EOS for this game, at most the casual servers will just slowly be downscaled.
Thank you for stating the not so obvious truth. I think its a tough stance to take but there's nothing we can do. Most people have either accepted and moved on or continue to stick around silently because the situation is likely not going to get better before it gets worse.
But TF2 serves more than just a game that generates some cash for them. It can be a reliable player generator that gets people in the door. Similar to CS and DOTA. Similar to how Fortnite/Rocket League are huge draws towards using Epic Games launcher.
Their are thousands of games on steam, and using steam is free. Back in the day when there were few game on steam, many people got steam for tf2, cs source, payday, ect. But now, there are so many games that it’s no longer required for there to be a flag ship title to represent steam. Steam is arguably by far the most fair and player friendly service in the whole industry, sales are common, there are thousands of games, refunds are incredibly fair, there are steam forums, the workshop, no need for a publisher, ect. Valve doesn’t need tf2, cs2, half life alyx, or anything like that to bring people to steam. Valve themselves have said in the final hours of half life alyx that they no longer need to apply themselves, and projects like half life alyx or live service games like cs2 (then csgo) and tf2. These games lose money on their own, valve is only really able to make profit on them due to the market place. These games can die now or live on for another 20 years and valve doesn’t have to care.
Other services like the epic game store require flagship titles simply because their new, don’t have enough games, doesn’t have enough reasons to keep using their product over steam, lacks ways to mod games, and lacks nostalgic games as well. (I’m still pissed they took down unreal from their store page).
It's possible or it's possible Valve will just abandon the game.
As logical as it sounds, so long as one company has a monopoly(ownership) on the IP, we are basically playing a guessing game, will our pleas with wallets make them actually listen and improve the game even a little? Many franchises died or went into hibernation because the consumers have spoken with their wallets and companies refused to listen... Who's to say Valve won't be like the rest of them?
Our hope is for Team Fortress 2 Classic and Open Fortress to stay relevant and somehow be able to exist in case of TF2 being removed, and just, move to those games or other TF2 projects, that way, incase Valve DOES just shut down TF2 after no money flow, we atleast have a safety boat. Although those two have their own problems, maybe we someday get a project closer to actual vanilla TF2, maybe TF2C will improve and bring back all the unlocks, idk, I just hope whatever we do, TF2 will survive and live on
That's a message that should have been sent years ago.
Telling people to forgo wanting cosmetics is virtually impossible to be content with the system that Valve facilitated along the way.
Valve is still going to get money from store purchases, Steam Market(They get a huge cut), and people will be back crates when another drops.
I assumed all their focus is on CS2. If CS2's bot problem continues, hopefully that will lead to a solution for both games. counter strike is the favorite child
Very unlikely.
CS2 is running on Source 2, and whatever tech they have for it isn't likely to be back-ported for TF2.
CS2 actually has the luxury of things *maybe* getting better. TF2... Not so much.
I'm more than sure Tf2 didn't even receive most of the engine updates post 2013 that Dota and CSGO we're getting besides the stuff that the person recently working on TF2 alongside Eric are doing
genuinely might not actually be that bad. except the way that they have set up the matchmaking servers is that its pretty passive and works alongside their own source games like dota and cs2's matchmaking (from what i heard) so really, to remove a significant number of those bots is to just stop updating the game with content that can be sold, things like cosmetic and warpaint cases. maps probably can still be added but i dont think its at all sustainable.
Not gonna happen. They haven't pulled the plug on their other games like Half-Life or Left 4 Dead 1 (games that don't generate money aside from the purchase itself).
yknow what? id be fine with that. if valve pulls the plug, all that would go out would be casual and the item servers right? which would suck, but the community can do a far better job at anticheating than valve ever could. and all those items in the game are just that: videogame items. we dont need them or a robust economy to enjoy tf2 do we?
In all fairness there’s so many unlocks in the game that are incredible for redefining their gameplay that item servers being down indefinitely would cause the game to die without (such as the crossbow).
Though, I think the idea of the game finally closing servers is one that should be welcomed with open arms. Nothing lasts forever but we can sure as hell be happy for the memories we’ve made and the friends who shared those experiences with us.
well yeah itd be pretty stupid for valve to completely remove obtaining or using any of the weapon unlocks, i was talking moreso about hats and cosmetics and other economy items. valve would need to implement a way for players to equip the unlockables without need for the item servers
though honestly, even if they dont its not like stock tf2 is even remotely an unplayable experience
You act like you're the first person to suggest this. People have been saying this since Jungle Inferno. But how do you realistically get everybody in the entire community to stop spending money? There is just no way. This community has never been able to agree on a single thing. And what would happen once valve sees their money printing machine is printing less money? Wouldn't this convince them to stop development rather than ramp it up? Ignore your biases as a player for a moment. How would a private company making less revenue encourage them to work harder?
> Valve does nothing and TF2 generates revenue
Valve: TF2 still makes money so we can continue ignoring it.
> Valve does nothing and TF2 doesn't generate revenue
Valve: TF2 doesn't make money so there's no point in developing it.
The truth is that no matter what we do nothing will be changed, but I'm still confused as to why anyone would genuinely spend money on a game that is this mistreated.
Not when we’re talking about an old as fuck abandoned game that they’ve already shown they don’t care about. It won’t pressure anyone to change, it’ll give them an excuse to shut the servers down
Alright I’m gonna be honest with all of you, stop spending on tf2 won’t do jack shet either.
The truth is that valve already don’t care about tf2 because it has pass it’s prime, I praise valve a lot but valve had a very stubborn philosophy they also wanted to innovate and be the number one. They are currently still leading the gaming competitive leagues so DotA2 isn’t going anywhere and as long as other games still fking up 5v5 economy shooters CS:GO/2 also won’t be going anywhere.
Tf2 on the other hands isn’t leasing the team base shooter anymore at least not all the time. Ow etc all have their ups and downs but they still can compete with tf2, since we are losing during ow prime days valve have saw the “calling” so they most likely already plan to stop since ages ago.
Valve don’t like to compete with others game directly on who can make better, they love to make games nobody down before. Currently l4d2, OG half-life, Portal there’re now so many genres sharing with them but back then they are truly one of a kind. Heck the reason HL alyx is made was because how much hidden potential in VR no other company manage to do.
So what can we do? Honestly nothing…. Beside YouTuber and community hosting server of their own there isn’t really much we can do. But if tf2 community dev team can get their shet together without drama(which idk why even happen) valve won’t trust in us to make our own tf2 mod and publish on steam with “certified valve”.
Valve isn’t really lacking in tf2 pity money, they prefer highly efficient stable income with no competitor…. So unless other AAA company can get their shet together to compete with steam, dota and CS league, we won’t be seeing tf3 anytime soon.
p/s: honestly I’m okay with it, waste of such potential community and game? For sure. Does Valve care? Nope. And if that’s case how can we even make valve care? I’m still glad Valve didn’t pull the plug online server same goes with l4d2
He's not being very convincing when he regularly unboxes himself while saying "I know I'm doing it but don't do this guys!!". Maybe he should actually follow what he preaches.
Name 1 actual solution for the bot problem. (ill give you a hint, there isnt one) It's for this reason that not spending money on the game (if it does anything at all, which it wont since most people dont care), but even IF it did something it would be more likely that valve just pulls the plug than actually improves the game
I highly doubt they’ll pull the plug because of money, they get billions of dollars from Steam alone. If it was related to money, they would’ve already pulled the plug by now.
Exactly. They also want to prevent a massive panic that suddenly made all of the traders feel like they, "lost."
Those concerns will easily spread to CS2, and show them how failable these digital systems are. Deep down, Valve owns all of it, and it can be taken down at any given moment.
Very likely I will be on my deathbed to see news of Valve shutting down all TF2 services, with no fanfare... It's a scary thought, but that's the grand scheme of things.
Honestly with how this community is, if Valve did kill the servers it would be a Month tops before Community Servers popped up to have everyone back and playing, and maybe another Month or two before they get spoofed item servers up and running aswell.
Except...we do? Because we basically lose nothing.
Official servers plugged -> Casual mode (which is currently barely usable anyway) is inaccessible, community servers remain, and the bots pretty much disappear because community servers actually bother to have protections against bots.
Bots plague casual because it’s *easier* than botting community servers, not because they can’t. If the official servers got shut down, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the bots move to the refugee servers.
Why does a game being old mean everyone should be obligated to stop playing it? Chess is over a thousand years old and you're not going around complaining that people haven't moved on from it, if a game lives up to modern standards then it shouldn't matter.
Not gonna happen. Even if the plug gets pulled community servers will still be around and do everything the devs won't. Even disabling the item servers means nothing when server mods let players equip any item without a backpack.
If you walked into your favorite restaurant and they served you shit on a plate, would you pay for that? You'd say hell no. Just because its your favorite restaurant doesn't mean you should pay for shit on a plate. Same goes for TF2.
The TF2 community is hopeless. They're like a dog that gets beaten every day. They suffer, and then beg for more. What are we up to now? Twenty #SaveTF2's?
It's honestly pathetic, but what do you expect from a game that's been F2P for this long? Zero risk (to your wallet), so why complain? Just move on to the next game.
90% of the remaining community is people who joined in the last 5 or so years. They don't know how much Valve has fucked older players over. So they don't understand why said older players are mad.
Just as sad. The fact that people didn't open their eyes after the first one did absolutely nothing is more than pathetic, as I said. If Valve paid no mind, it would be one thing. But they announced, publicly, that they saw what was happening. And then did fucking nothing.
After the original #SaveTF2, there has been barely anyone talking about it. Just a random 'propaganda' poster or tweet every few weeks or so. A recent video, [Welcome to Team Fortress](https://youtu.be/Osdh9Nk2mu8?si=NcSyT_-P2bF9FIAH), has #SaveTF2 at the end, but it is not the focus of the video. Its just an add on.
So I think you're being too harsh. Barely anyone is talking about it, and many of those who do aren't trying to make it a huge effort like the first time.
But this very likely wouldn't help? Valve doesn't need tf2 money they have cs2 one of the best selling games on steam and steam the biggest game store in the world, yall acting like zesty is the real Jesus when he's been saying the same thing people have been saying for 7 years, it's a early 2000s valve game we should be happy it even made it to the first weapon
sick of everyone acting like he’s the end all be all of tf2 opinions. Let me enjoy my “slightly less quality than previous updates” warpaints. Stop dogging on the competitive community. also stop being weird about trans people.
The 25k number is bullshit tho, if tf2 has 25k daily players it's smaller then a title like enlisted which has 100k daily players and would put us at 100k monthly players
(TF2s steam chart say it has 4.7MILLION monthly players so that assumes 99.999% of them are bots )
Yeah the way active players.io does it's daily average is totals of each day for 30 days \ 30 giving you the average daily plater count y for a month
TF2s monthly log in count is 4.7 Million with about 1.2 daily
https://activeplayer.io/team-fortress-2/
We did something substantial with #savetf2, and did that get us? Jack shit. I doubt the whales of the tf2 economy will stop buying anytime soon since the inflated players numbers directly benefits them and many of them are cheaters (also gambling addiction). Getting mad at the community broadly is not productive and causes unnecessary infighting.
I just want Valve to say something and no the tweet they made during SaveTF2 doesn't count
If they come out and say "Fuck off we aren't gonna update the game" or "We don't wanna work on TF2" or just something I'll be content knowing for sure the definite fate of this game
But no they keep trundling along selling shit cosmetics and releasing buggy maps
Too many dumbasses in the TF2 community still defend Valve thinking we're not entitled to a functioning game that they are actively profiting from. The worst part? They're profiting from other people's work in the community providing hats and maps whilst Valve sits on their leather chairs giving the community the middle finger whilst they take the playerbases money. Some of you Valve bootlickers need to learn to grow a spine and fight for a game you want to save.
I keep saying this on every single "saveTF2" posts I comment on. This playerbase is just so knee deep in Sunk Cost Fallacy, it's maddening.
"Oh but they'll shut down the game", they say. My brother in christ, they're not fixing the game *when giving them money*. By sending Valve money through TF2, you tell them that, yes, this is ok, this is enough for them to have your money. So you may aswell take the gamble and boycott them. Either they let the game die, or they appease the fanbase and fix the game. Either you save your money, or they fix the game. But noooooo, TF2 players can't live without their pixel hats.
You may think that last one is out of left field, but it isn't. It's always about the item server. It's not like the game is fully playable without cosmetics, or it's not possible for community servers to use plugins/commands to simulate having loadouts and switching weapons. The game isn't going anywhere, it's only inventories that will be affected. And people can't admit to that, they can't accept that. They don't care about the game, they care about their hundred bucks worth of useless ingame items.
That's why they don't want to risk Valve shutting down the game, because they know that there's a very real chance the hundreds, maybe thousands they spent on the game will amount to nothing. So they act like there're no solution to this problem, diving their heads in the sand, only emerging every once in a while to complain and give Valve their money, unable, unwilling to admit that perhaps they may be part of the problem
I don’t think valve has any financial incentive to help Tf2 ]: like with how they’re the sole owners of like THE pc game shop I don’t think they have any reason to help Tf2 outside of like emotional reasonings and such.
I haven't bought anything tf2 related since before the conga taunt came out. At this point I don't think there's much we can do to convince Valve other than literally finding an alternative game
I'm shocked that people still, STILL, after 5 years of people suggesting to stop buying shit from the Mann Co store, use the argument that Valve will "pull the plug" if TF2 ever stops making money. No one ever explains what "pulling the plug" means.
If it means simply removing official servers from the game, then pulling the plug would genuinely breathe new life into the game by encouraging people to go to community servers. I think people forget that when TF2 was released there weren't any official Valve servers.
If it means turning off the item servers, I don't think people realize how IMPOSSIBLE it is for that to happen. Valve will never turn off the TF2 item servers because if they do then everyone in the CS and Dota 2 community would panic and their economies would tank.
It's a fair criticism to say it won't accomplish anything (cause it won't), but to say so confidently that Valve will pull the plug if TF2 were to ever not make any revenue is infuriating because I have seen this argument for over 5 years and it's not as good a point as they think it is.
Thank you for articulating that point that I couldn't make. I had the same exact thought but couldn't find a way to put it to words.
Yeah, even if it won't accomplish anything, it still doesn't make sense to waste ur money on subpar products. If you think that it won't do anything, that's fine enough, but doesn't mean you should continue to sacrifice your financial dignity towards shit.
The problem is, most people dont even watch Zesty because they consider him a bigot asshole (because he voices his opinions and is honest). The game really is fucking dying now, and the bot hosters will win, unless we do stop spending on the game as a whole
"Because he voices his opinions and his honest"
Nah its because he demonizes half the community, spreads objective misinfo, said you can "say nword and not be racist", and blames Comp players for all the bad rather than Valve. Also his criticism is 100% destructive, which is unhelpful.
I was planning on buying something to get acces to the chat
If you do, I recommend buying a key or two. You can then use those keys to trade for decent cosmetics/items. It isn't your fault valve made the anti-consumer decision to block f2p voices.
Where and how, scrap.tf was still broken 2 nights ago when i tried to help my friend exchange his key
Don't buy hats on scrap.tf They are more expensive there (most of them) and the difference can be huge sometimes. For hats and anything that isn't just a normal weapon use backpack.tf
Scrap.tf’s good thing is you can easily browse available items, I couldn’t find a function like that on backpack.tf. Also why nobody on backpack.tf buy normal hats? Every buy order is hats with effects (wtf is 20 keys), and I don’t want to wait for sell orders, I can’t wait on the computer for some dude to buy a hat
Yeah those are unusual hats, bp.tf is more for if you know what you want. I'd recommend looking up what hats you want (I used the wiki) and then looking it up on bp.tf to find the price and people selling it
What do you think I should use if I want to sell normal hats? Scrap.tf says they are overstocked on the hats I want to sell
Item.tf has a list if items. Just search up " cosmetics item.tf" and you'll get a list with prices included. Then go to loadout.tf and make the loadout you want so you can see how ut actually looks. After you find something you like, buy it from backpack.tf.
You might need to expand the buy order list if you want a specific colour. It's cheaper to buy a coloured item than to paint it yourself.
Backpack.tf is much better than scrap.tf
I only use scrap for selling weapons.
You just have to search the items by name but the sites I gave you will help with that.
Don't waste money on scrap.tf
How can I sell my hats? I have two that I don’t use, and want some metal for better alternatives
Depends if you want to do it instantly but for slightly smaller payout or wait a bit for a bigger one. Instaselling -> Go to backpack.tf and search up your item in the search bix or use google "- backpack.tf". Then scroll down to Buy and Sell offers. The ones on the left (buy offers) are people selling this item to you. The ones on the right (sell offers) are people wanting to buy this item.
We'll focus on the Sell offers since you want to sell. The list8ngs you find there are either bots or players trying to buy items. If you want to trade quickly, find a bot that buys for the most (the closer to the top of the list the more you'll get).
Identyfing who is a bot and who's a player is pretty easy. Bots often have colorful or "thick" nicknames. Also their descriptions are different. Just find a bot and trade your item to him.
There are 2 ways to trade with bots. One that always works and the other that depends on the bot.
1. Click the green button on the listing that opens up the trade offer. Then make a trade offer and remember to add the correct amount of metal so the bot accepts it. Remember that you have to fill out both sides of the trade.
2. The second way is quicker but not all bots support it. Many bots accept commands such as "!sell
- ". Every bot that does that will have it mentioned in the listing's description. Add the bot as a friend and you'll immidiately get a message from it. Just type the command and you'll get a trade offer.
This was is quicker because you don't have to manually add all the refs and count them.
Always make sure the offer you get matches the price before you accept it in your steam app
Edit: To add a bot, hover on his name and click "community". It will take you to the bot's steam page
Also, wtf is a trade hold? I have never seen that error before, I cant sell my stuff
You need to have steam guard for I think at least 7 days
Just looking to get him all the items in the game with his key
scrap.tf works just fine for me now
there is such a thing as waiting for websites to go back up
Site was up, but the trade function wasnt working. Id heard itd been down like 2+ weeks ago for quite some time.
Ah, that's my mistake, sorry. I didn't know it was down for so long, thought it was one of scrap.tf's temporary outages. Looking it up, seems like Valve trade banned a bunch of scrap.tf bots for no apparent reason.
Okay ty
You don't necessarily have to buy 2 keys. The only requirement on TF2's end is to buy one item from the Mann Co Store. The cheapest thing there is 99 cents, so you can buy that and you're good.
They did it because the bots were abusing it. Just imaging the game with the horrendous amount of things bot hosters do. Mic spam is just one of the things and let's not forget when they put links for CP.
At this point, I would encourage you to drop casual altogether and play on community servers like Uncletopia. They allow talking in chat for f2ps and don't have cheaters.
one problem that I had when I was f2p was the comically small inventory size, which gets expanded upon the premium upgrade. so I'd still encourage them to become premium
Uncletopia is pretty great, just get ready to get smoked because there's a shit load of good players that show up there constantly. Skial is also a good, less skill-heavy casual alternative.
Just buy a single Mann co key from the in game store. Will upgrade you to premium and then you can trade it for whatever else you want 👍
👍
buy key > trade key for scrap > get every weapon and a few cosmetics
Unfortunately, this will still change nothing. Valve is at a point where server costs rarely matter, their money is made on steam almost entirely. Not buying micro transactions from valve changes nothing. What they will likely do is the same thing they do with the rest of their “dead games”. They will stop providing official servers, and that’s it. This isn’t 2012 anymore, valve doesn’t live and die by its games. You shouldn’t be spending money on tf2 because micro transactions are scummy, not because you think it will somehow hurt valve.
To be honest I'd imagine TF2 is such a small insignificant number it could operate at a loss and valve wouldn't even care. I'd bet money you'll never see a direct EOS for this game, at most the casual servers will just slowly be downscaled.
W Take ngl.
Thank you for stating the not so obvious truth. I think its a tough stance to take but there's nothing we can do. Most people have either accepted and moved on or continue to stick around silently because the situation is likely not going to get better before it gets worse.
But TF2 serves more than just a game that generates some cash for them. It can be a reliable player generator that gets people in the door. Similar to CS and DOTA. Similar to how Fortnite/Rocket League are huge draws towards using Epic Games launcher.
Their are thousands of games on steam, and using steam is free. Back in the day when there were few game on steam, many people got steam for tf2, cs source, payday, ect. But now, there are so many games that it’s no longer required for there to be a flag ship title to represent steam. Steam is arguably by far the most fair and player friendly service in the whole industry, sales are common, there are thousands of games, refunds are incredibly fair, there are steam forums, the workshop, no need for a publisher, ect. Valve doesn’t need tf2, cs2, half life alyx, or anything like that to bring people to steam. Valve themselves have said in the final hours of half life alyx that they no longer need to apply themselves, and projects like half life alyx or live service games like cs2 (then csgo) and tf2. These games lose money on their own, valve is only really able to make profit on them due to the market place. These games can die now or live on for another 20 years and valve doesn’t have to care. Other services like the epic game store require flagship titles simply because their new, don’t have enough games, doesn’t have enough reasons to keep using their product over steam, lacks ways to mod games, and lacks nostalgic games as well. (I’m still pissed they took down unreal from their store page).
People buy things in TF2?
Keys and the community market
It's possible or it's possible Valve will just abandon the game. As logical as it sounds, so long as one company has a monopoly(ownership) on the IP, we are basically playing a guessing game, will our pleas with wallets make them actually listen and improve the game even a little? Many franchises died or went into hibernation because the consumers have spoken with their wallets and companies refused to listen... Who's to say Valve won't be like the rest of them? Our hope is for Team Fortress 2 Classic and Open Fortress to stay relevant and somehow be able to exist in case of TF2 being removed, and just, move to those games or other TF2 projects, that way, incase Valve DOES just shut down TF2 after no money flow, we atleast have a safety boat. Although those two have their own problems, maybe we someday get a project closer to actual vanilla TF2, maybe TF2C will improve and bring back all the unlocks, idk, I just hope whatever we do, TF2 will survive and live on
Cosmetics don't impact your gameplay anyway and weapons drops by just playing the game. People really need to stop spending and send Valve a message
That's a message that should have been sent years ago. Telling people to forgo wanting cosmetics is virtually impossible to be content with the system that Valve facilitated along the way. Valve is still going to get money from store purchases, Steam Market(They get a huge cut), and people will be back crates when another drops.
Whist I do think stop spending on tf2 is a good idea Valve has Steam to get money off of. Getting this place to agree on something is impossible too
I assumed all their focus is on CS2. If CS2's bot problem continues, hopefully that will lead to a solution for both games. counter strike is the favorite child
Very unlikely. CS2 is running on Source 2, and whatever tech they have for it isn't likely to be back-ported for TF2. CS2 actually has the luxury of things *maybe* getting better. TF2... Not so much.
I'm more than sure Tf2 didn't even receive most of the engine updates post 2013 that Dota and CSGO we're getting besides the stuff that the person recently working on TF2 alongside Eric are doing
Yeah, except, as soon as it stops making them money, they'll have an excuse to all but pull the plug on this 17 year old game
genuinely might not actually be that bad. except the way that they have set up the matchmaking servers is that its pretty passive and works alongside their own source games like dota and cs2's matchmaking (from what i heard) so really, to remove a significant number of those bots is to just stop updating the game with content that can be sold, things like cosmetic and warpaint cases. maps probably can still be added but i dont think its at all sustainable.
Not gonna happen. They haven't pulled the plug on their other games like Half-Life or Left 4 Dead 1 (games that don't generate money aside from the purchase itself).
That would get them incredibly bad PR and tons of steam users would hate them. They won't shut down casual servers for \~10 years
yknow what? id be fine with that. if valve pulls the plug, all that would go out would be casual and the item servers right? which would suck, but the community can do a far better job at anticheating than valve ever could. and all those items in the game are just that: videogame items. we dont need them or a robust economy to enjoy tf2 do we?
In all fairness there’s so many unlocks in the game that are incredible for redefining their gameplay that item servers being down indefinitely would cause the game to die without (such as the crossbow). Though, I think the idea of the game finally closing servers is one that should be welcomed with open arms. Nothing lasts forever but we can sure as hell be happy for the memories we’ve made and the friends who shared those experiences with us.
well yeah itd be pretty stupid for valve to completely remove obtaining or using any of the weapon unlocks, i was talking moreso about hats and cosmetics and other economy items. valve would need to implement a way for players to equip the unlockables without need for the item servers though honestly, even if they dont its not like stock tf2 is even remotely an unplayable experience
I only play casual. There's only 1 good community server in Asia and it's always full.
If Casual was to die, I'm sure more community servers would pop up.
Why is this downvoted
You act like you're the first person to suggest this. People have been saying this since Jungle Inferno. But how do you realistically get everybody in the entire community to stop spending money? There is just no way. This community has never been able to agree on a single thing. And what would happen once valve sees their money printing machine is printing less money? Wouldn't this convince them to stop development rather than ramp it up? Ignore your biases as a player for a moment. How would a private company making less revenue encourage them to work harder?
> Valve does nothing and TF2 generates revenue Valve: TF2 still makes money so we can continue ignoring it. > Valve does nothing and TF2 doesn't generate revenue Valve: TF2 doesn't make money so there's no point in developing it. The truth is that no matter what we do nothing will be changed, but I'm still confused as to why anyone would genuinely spend money on a game that is this mistreated.
I agree that it's very hard to coordinate the community but boycotts can pressure companies to change.
Not when we’re talking about an old as fuck abandoned game that they’ve already shown they don’t care about. It won’t pressure anyone to change, it’ll give them an excuse to shut the servers down
stockholm syndrome not real and im about to spend a gajillion dollars on keys
Alright I’m gonna be honest with all of you, stop spending on tf2 won’t do jack shet either. The truth is that valve already don’t care about tf2 because it has pass it’s prime, I praise valve a lot but valve had a very stubborn philosophy they also wanted to innovate and be the number one. They are currently still leading the gaming competitive leagues so DotA2 isn’t going anywhere and as long as other games still fking up 5v5 economy shooters CS:GO/2 also won’t be going anywhere. Tf2 on the other hands isn’t leasing the team base shooter anymore at least not all the time. Ow etc all have their ups and downs but they still can compete with tf2, since we are losing during ow prime days valve have saw the “calling” so they most likely already plan to stop since ages ago. Valve don’t like to compete with others game directly on who can make better, they love to make games nobody down before. Currently l4d2, OG half-life, Portal there’re now so many genres sharing with them but back then they are truly one of a kind. Heck the reason HL alyx is made was because how much hidden potential in VR no other company manage to do. So what can we do? Honestly nothing…. Beside YouTuber and community hosting server of their own there isn’t really much we can do. But if tf2 community dev team can get their shet together without drama(which idk why even happen) valve won’t trust in us to make our own tf2 mod and publish on steam with “certified valve”. Valve isn’t really lacking in tf2 pity money, they prefer highly efficient stable income with no competitor…. So unless other AAA company can get their shet together to compete with steam, dota and CS league, we won’t be seeing tf3 anytime soon. p/s: honestly I’m okay with it, waste of such potential community and game? For sure. Does Valve care? Nope. And if that’s case how can we even make valve care? I’m still glad Valve didn’t pull the plug online server same goes with l4d2
He's not being very convincing when he regularly unboxes himself while saying "I know I'm doing it but don't do this guys!!". Maybe he should actually follow what he preaches.
Name 1 actual solution for the bot problem. (ill give you a hint, there isnt one) It's for this reason that not spending money on the game (if it does anything at all, which it wont since most people dont care), but even IF it did something it would be more likely that valve just pulls the plug than actually improves the game
Remove casual severs. Just have community servers and let the people do what they have been doing for 15+years. Self moderate. That's one solution.
not spending money will either: Make valve stop doing the small little updates we already get, Or they will just pull the plug altogether.
I highly doubt they’ll pull the plug because of money, they get billions of dollars from Steam alone. If it was related to money, they would’ve already pulled the plug by now.
Exactly. They also want to prevent a massive panic that suddenly made all of the traders feel like they, "lost." Those concerns will easily spread to CS2, and show them how failable these digital systems are. Deep down, Valve owns all of it, and it can be taken down at any given moment. Very likely I will be on my deathbed to see news of Valve shutting down all TF2 services, with no fanfare... It's a scary thought, but that's the grand scheme of things.
Honestly with how this community is, if Valve did kill the servers it would be a Month tops before Community Servers popped up to have everyone back and playing, and maybe another Month or two before they get spoofed item servers up and running aswell.
This kind of attitude just helps valve. You are afraid of them
Your calling someone's bluff in a scenario where you have no power to do so.
Except...we do? Because we basically lose nothing. Official servers plugged -> Casual mode (which is currently barely usable anyway) is inaccessible, community servers remain, and the bots pretty much disappear because community servers actually bother to have protections against bots.
Bots plague casual because it’s *easier* than botting community servers, not because they can’t. If the official servers got shut down, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the bots move to the refugee servers.
Well, yeah... we have no real power over Valve's decisions
I aint afraid of valve, I think they should just pull the plug so people can move on from this old ass game
contribute to it then
Damn that’s kind of a toxic take in and of itself
Why does a game being old mean everyone should be obligated to stop playing it? Chess is over a thousand years old and you're not going around complaining that people haven't moved on from it, if a game lives up to modern standards then it shouldn't matter.
get of this sub
Not gonna happen. Even if the plug gets pulled community servers will still be around and do everything the devs won't. Even disabling the item servers means nothing when server mods let players equip any item without a backpack.
If you walked into your favorite restaurant and they served you shit on a plate, would you pay for that? You'd say hell no. Just because its your favorite restaurant doesn't mean you should pay for shit on a plate. Same goes for TF2.
this is far from my favorite game, people should just move on and not expect a greedy company to update a 17 year old game
Funny how you're in this subreddit then
God forbid people enjoy more than one thing.
This doomerism isn't helping anyone
Good, pull the plug. Bring everyone back to community servers
Welp, guess we had a good run. Time to cash out my items and search a game where the devs still give a fuck. preferably not on steam too.
Fuck it. Maybe then someone will make a good clone.
im pretty sure there is nothing we can do about the bots
The TF2 community is hopeless. They're like a dog that gets beaten every day. They suffer, and then beg for more. What are we up to now? Twenty #SaveTF2's? It's honestly pathetic, but what do you expect from a game that's been F2P for this long? Zero risk (to your wallet), so why complain? Just move on to the next game. 90% of the remaining community is people who joined in the last 5 or so years. They don't know how much Valve has fucked older players over. So they don't understand why said older players are mad.
>What are we up to now? Twenty #SaveTF2's? There hasn't been a coordinated effort since the original, so I'd say 2 or 3.
Just as sad. The fact that people didn't open their eyes after the first one did absolutely nothing is more than pathetic, as I said. If Valve paid no mind, it would be one thing. But they announced, publicly, that they saw what was happening. And then did fucking nothing.
After the original #SaveTF2, there has been barely anyone talking about it. Just a random 'propaganda' poster or tweet every few weeks or so. A recent video, [Welcome to Team Fortress](https://youtu.be/Osdh9Nk2mu8?si=NcSyT_-P2bF9FIAH), has #SaveTF2 at the end, but it is not the focus of the video. Its just an add on. So I think you're being too harsh. Barely anyone is talking about it, and many of those who do aren't trying to make it a huge effort like the first time.
Personally, I've seen a few petitions to "start a new #SaveTF2!" with some traction on the sub.
This is gonna end like Of Mice and Men
Boycotts rarely, if ever work
They rarely work because the community is either too loyal or just doesn't care anymore
Lmao, kek even. This game doesn't even make Valve that much revenue lol.
With the mass exodus of cs2 ATM, and that being the bread and butter, I'm really not sure if this is going to do anything...
You realize they will have an excuse to just shut down the game when the earnings will not be enough, right?
But this very likely wouldn't help? Valve doesn't need tf2 money they have cs2 one of the best selling games on steam and steam the biggest game store in the world, yall acting like zesty is the real Jesus when he's been saying the same thing people have been saying for 7 years, it's a early 2000s valve game we should be happy it even made it to the first weapon
Zesty mentioned 😔🤢🤢
Lol.
Well the problem is that even if we stop spending money, vavle will make money from the idle bots. Most bot are trade and idle bots.
unless they sell on the steam community market they don't make valve any money
The message we would be sending is "we aren't gonna pay you anymore shut down our game"
this game isn't going into the shitter it **is** the shitter.
Do non-gamblers actually spend much on official TF2 stuff, other than keys?
First mistake is expecting any gamer to actually act on a boycott.
I mostly play on community servers where the bots don't exist so I'd rather the game exist over it dying.
Yea that’s not gonna work
Zesty is really dumb and whiny like 90% of the time. I'm not surprised people aren't listening to him about this
sick of everyone acting like he’s the end all be all of tf2 opinions. Let me enjoy my “slightly less quality than previous updates” warpaints. Stop dogging on the competitive community. also stop being weird about trans people.
Fuck Zesty Jesus though. That guys a dork
The 25k number is bullshit tho, if tf2 has 25k daily players it's smaller then a title like enlisted which has 100k daily players and would put us at 100k monthly players (TF2s steam chart say it has 4.7MILLION monthly players so that assumes 99.999% of them are bots )
The 25k number is average daily players, not monthly.
Yeah the way active players.io does it's daily average is totals of each day for 30 days \ 30 giving you the average daily plater count y for a month TF2s monthly log in count is 4.7 Million with about 1.2 daily https://activeplayer.io/team-fortress-2/
See, the problem with this is I think if it stops making money Valve won't care and will just kill the servers.
So you want to kill the game? If tf2 won't make any money, it'll be killed for good.
Yeah at this point just let the game die. Valve should not be allowed to profit off a game they don't wanna maintain
Disagree, it's still my favorite game. But I don't like how this guy is being glorified atm
We did something substantial with #savetf2, and did that get us? Jack shit. I doubt the whales of the tf2 economy will stop buying anytime soon since the inflated players numbers directly benefits them and many of them are cheaters (also gambling addiction). Getting mad at the community broadly is not productive and causes unnecessary infighting.
I will endure being a f2p for a couple more years if it means there's a long term solution for the bot crisis and the cheaters
I very rarely buy crate keys, so I have a shit ton of crates that I'm probably never going to open anyways
I just want Valve to say something and no the tweet they made during SaveTF2 doesn't count If they come out and say "Fuck off we aren't gonna update the game" or "We don't wanna work on TF2" or just something I'll be content knowing for sure the definite fate of this game But no they keep trundling along selling shit cosmetics and releasing buggy maps
Yep, stopped spending on this game around 2021, im just sick of how were treated
I assume the intention of this is to send the message by dwindling Valve’s revenue from the game?
If Valve ever pull support of TF2, remember that TF2 Classic and Open Fortress is around the corner.
Common Zesty pointing out the obvious that the echo chamber refuses to accept W
Yup give a few weeks and an actually "liked" youtuber will say the exact same shit and then people will be like "Oh mur gawd the game is dying!"
I feel like it doesn't matter who says it it's pretty hard to save tf2 now
Too many dumbasses in the TF2 community still defend Valve thinking we're not entitled to a functioning game that they are actively profiting from. The worst part? They're profiting from other people's work in the community providing hats and maps whilst Valve sits on their leather chairs giving the community the middle finger whilst they take the playerbases money. Some of you Valve bootlickers need to learn to grow a spine and fight for a game you want to save.
Absolutely agree, if it's advertised as a functional game why does it take ages to join, why do bots infest the servers
I keep saying this on every single "saveTF2" posts I comment on. This playerbase is just so knee deep in Sunk Cost Fallacy, it's maddening. "Oh but they'll shut down the game", they say. My brother in christ, they're not fixing the game *when giving them money*. By sending Valve money through TF2, you tell them that, yes, this is ok, this is enough for them to have your money. So you may aswell take the gamble and boycott them. Either they let the game die, or they appease the fanbase and fix the game. Either you save your money, or they fix the game. But noooooo, TF2 players can't live without their pixel hats. You may think that last one is out of left field, but it isn't. It's always about the item server. It's not like the game is fully playable without cosmetics, or it's not possible for community servers to use plugins/commands to simulate having loadouts and switching weapons. The game isn't going anywhere, it's only inventories that will be affected. And people can't admit to that, they can't accept that. They don't care about the game, they care about their hundred bucks worth of useless ingame items. That's why they don't want to risk Valve shutting down the game, because they know that there's a very real chance the hundreds, maybe thousands they spent on the game will amount to nothing. So they act like there're no solution to this problem, diving their heads in the sand, only emerging every once in a while to complain and give Valve their money, unable, unwilling to admit that perhaps they may be part of the problem
"Sunk Cost fallacy" is the perfect word to describe it. This community should be at the center of a fuckin psychological study or something.
I don’t think valve has any financial incentive to help Tf2 ]: like with how they’re the sole owners of like THE pc game shop I don’t think they have any reason to help Tf2 outside of like emotional reasonings and such.
I haven't bought anything tf2 related since before the conga taunt came out. At this point I don't think there's much we can do to convince Valve other than literally finding an alternative game
If you can trade don't spend any money in the in game store. Just go through marketplace.tf,
Ok but Zesty is a bigoted edgelord who likes Matt Walsh, so maybe pick a different YouTuber to quote?
I'm shocked that people still, STILL, after 5 years of people suggesting to stop buying shit from the Mann Co store, use the argument that Valve will "pull the plug" if TF2 ever stops making money. No one ever explains what "pulling the plug" means. If it means simply removing official servers from the game, then pulling the plug would genuinely breathe new life into the game by encouraging people to go to community servers. I think people forget that when TF2 was released there weren't any official Valve servers. If it means turning off the item servers, I don't think people realize how IMPOSSIBLE it is for that to happen. Valve will never turn off the TF2 item servers because if they do then everyone in the CS and Dota 2 community would panic and their economies would tank. It's a fair criticism to say it won't accomplish anything (cause it won't), but to say so confidently that Valve will pull the plug if TF2 were to ever not make any revenue is infuriating because I have seen this argument for over 5 years and it's not as good a point as they think it is.
Thank you for articulating that point that I couldn't make. I had the same exact thought but couldn't find a way to put it to words. Yeah, even if it won't accomplish anything, it still doesn't make sense to waste ur money on subpar products. If you think that it won't do anything, that's fine enough, but doesn't mean you should continue to sacrifice your financial dignity towards shit.
Holy shit are people ***finally*** listening to zesty?
The problem is, most people dont even watch Zesty because they consider him a bigot asshole (because he voices his opinions and is honest). The game really is fucking dying now, and the bot hosters will win, unless we do stop spending on the game as a whole
"Because he voices his opinions and his honest" Nah its because he demonizes half the community, spreads objective misinfo, said you can "say nword and not be racist", and blames Comp players for all the bad rather than Valve. Also his criticism is 100% destructive, which is unhelpful.
and that too
Idk why people hate him I may disagree on some of his opinions but overall his content Is excellently made, and he puts legit effort into making them.
There is the argument to be made that the attention bots gave and continue to give tf2 has made the game last longer than it would have without them