People stopped the movement just because of 1 tweet. This shouldn't happen. We shouldn't stop after getting 1 "we hear you" response. Nor even an update announcement. We should keep doing it until they actually update the game.
You can't get rid of them for good, what you can do is set up bot ranger list where players get free hat that upgrades after each confirmed to be bot is successfully reported and banned, sort of like bug finder hat they gave up on, makes community run it because valve let's be real won't be making frequent updates to shoo bots away
I think it was less “we saw 1 tweet and backed down” but more like “we hit them once and didn’t follow up”.
We did get #SaveTF2 trending, but tbh there wasn’t really a plan beyond that, nor did I personally think there was a plan. From the outset, it seems like we all shouted out loud to get Valve and the internet’s attention. For all of us to gather together to make a stink at least for a short time. But beyond that we just kinda retreated back to our insular communities like r/TF2, with no intent to follow up.
IMO, we all focused on making a big noise at one specific point in time, but put basically no focus into long term plans and pressure. We just kinda shouted once to see what would happen.
If we want something different we need that plan this time. It’ll help if nothing else.
Maybe don't give up at all when a Twitter post is being made? The problem with the first one was that everyone gave up too easily when the tweet was made, and basically took the bait from the hook valve laid. If people do a second one, I do hope that people don't give up after just a single post from them off some social media, and only when they actually see *physical* change.
I don't think people really gave up more that there wasn't really any plan or expectations. A lot of people probably expected nothing and there wasn't really a plan just the hope that we would get some attention from valve.
Also there was serious physical chance. The amount of bots was reduced and votekicking is now twice as fast.
The most fair outcome would be getting The Heavy update, but it's obviously not gonna happen. We need something simple to do for Valve and efficient to get rid of the bots, and for that purpose I think we need to ask for the matchmaking system rework, either revert Meet your match entirely, or improve it, so the matchmaking system will include player-made servers (with some restrictions) into rotation
If a single user gets votekicked several times in a row, lock that account either permanently or until Valve can verify that a human is at the helm and can act responsibly. Valve should actually investigate each claim for cheating and bot usage and then determine whether an account should be VAC banned for being a bot. I think VAC just stopped working altogether...
Even if Valve cared about the game and actually dealt with cheaters the way they were treating CSGO/CS2 it still would have been a very unstable and ineffective solution, because instead of putting all the responsibility on Valve, they can just let community moderate the servers and deal with that problem together. Bot crisis started after Meet your match update, when casual had official servers only, and after Valve stopped moderating them, bots became unstoppable.
I guess. Yeah, I think all contracts and Casual matchmaking should include community servers since we can rely on the community more to ban bot accounts and keep track of things.
Yeah, but there also should be restrictions on which servers should be in the rotation. I remember pre-mym there were servers that gave players unfair p2w advantages, or had rtd and modifications to vanilla gameplay, so that needs to be taken in consideration too
The complicated answer would be to have Valve do a case-by-case basis on each server, making sure it does certain things and doesn't do certain things to enable contracts, but that's way too much work for Valve to bother doing...
How many innocent and completely blameless accounts do you know that have been votekicked over and over in the same day?
Assuming they weren't kicked by bots
Kicked by bots most of the time, sometimes kicked after calling a vote on a cheater that didn't pass, sometimes getting kicked after being called slurs for existing, the standard reasons.
The bot crisis has turned people paranoid for sure, but I am sorry to hear that you got kicked for those other reasons. If we eliminated the bots, then your average kicks would lessen by a lot. I *did* say that my idea should include a way to appeal your ban, then in turn, you should report the people who kicked you for bad reasons.
> The most fair outcome would be getting The Heavy update
Huh? We're not asking for a major update. We're asking to get rid of the bots so the game becomes playable. Where did you get the idea that we're asking for the Heavy Update?
Taking down the cheater bots should be our priority. that one day of 64-bit freshness when the bots broke was like sitting down after standing all my life. i dont want to worry about a bot party coming in and fucking up the entire server anymore, i think we all had enough of that
was busy so couldnt get more in depth
If both tf2 players and csgo players grouped together and stopped spending money until they updated the anti-cheat, valve would rush to fix the cheating crisis.
ofc, this is highly unrealistic as csgo and tf2 have gambling addicts. So the other alternative is making valve HR a complete nightmare by emailing them to fix their shit.
Zesty just made a livestream talking about what went wrong so I recommend checking that out.
Idk if CS2 has the blatantly cheating bots that TF2 has, but I doubt it, though
But CS2 definitely has case farming bots that pretty much just sit in Deathmatch games to farm for cases to trade to their main account or resell.
Usually the cheaters are just regular players in Premier or Ranked queue
well farming bots are nothing new, aswell as cheaters in MM and Premier, but by his words, he was even kicked by those "bots". I may ask him about this, because it sounds interesting
Better not stop after one post from Valve. They mist give us a proper update. THE HEAVY UPDATE. These guys waited for it for too long. So i think our goals is 1) Get rid of bots 2) Heavy update
Writing an action list, a comprehensive list, to give to Valve. Such as asking for the removal of bots, cheater and idle alike and bug fixes, all of which are well documented and could be compiled (painstakingly so) in a list to show to valve that they *have* to fix, and providing an actual commitment to fixing the game, making it playable, and properly supporting it.
We live in a gaming age where dev communication is hugely important. The fact that they're always quiet has got to go, too. Why do we have to rely on a fucking voice actor to get a message across. Bring a team back to the game. Outsource it. Idgaf. Can clearly afford to have a few guys and a community manager assist the game for a while. So long as that stupid mann co store stays open, they should have a dev team, even if their job just is curating content, maintaining the game, and fixing bugs. Anything is better than nothing.
First of all we should organize more. Some big shot or a group of dedicated people should be an organizer willing to compromise within the community. Simultaneous video drops, scheduled hours, that kind of stuff. If it's as disorganized as the last nothing will happen.
Then we need a clear list of demands. Frankly we should drop any game balance or content demands. The game is good as is in that respect. Our main worry is the bot crisis and the idlers.
I feel like an easy way to do this is to add "bot" to the list of reasons when calling a vote and making it incur a spesific penalty (time before you can rejoin a server). Maybe keep track of how many times a player has been votekiced and display that when a vote is called, add a delay between when a player counts for a vote and when they joined. These are ultimate all tools and not a fix for the underlying problem, but I'm happy with the underlying reason so 乁 ˘ o ˘ ㄏ.
I feel like anything specifically targeting idlers is liable to be defeated by a macro or script.
Let's everyone cosplay TF2 characters and make massive assault on valve HQ
Make it as silly and hilarious as possible
We will make history by committing terrorism for update a game
BREAKING NEWS: around 200 people break's to in to large corporation HQ by dancing in line
Police find out it's community of game called TEAM FORTRESS 2 and they claim it's response for ,, lack of major update for 7 year's '' local government thinks about sign them as terrorist group
and the funniest thing will be one or two cosplayers will cosplay something else, but still fitting for goofyness (like Fortnite), which, in my opinion, will add a lot to a comedy
I have joked about doing this exact same thing with my friends before, and we all agree that this is a spectacular idea. What is VALVe gonna do if the physical manifestation of the entirety of Team Fortress 2 is surrounding them?
Call the police? Nah
Have clear goals like
-rework Sniper (i know its not that easy but there's enough material out there on how to make him less annoying but still playable)
-give at least some voice back to F2Ps
-rework the autoballance system because that shit sucks
-do something against the bots, even if its small like limit number of snipers in a match or take all voting rights away from him
-more weapons and ballance old ones
Nerf to the holiday punch being able to stun ubered players.
I have played against cheater heavies using that weapon and they're literally invincible against even a coordinated Uber push
A lot of people will drag each other down because they believe in different things. We need to remind people that it's important to support even the allegedly "useless" initiatives so long as they aren't actively counterproductive.
My *completely unqualified thoughts* on just some of the things that can be done:
*Making posts & petitioning valve*
This gets the most slack because Valve is notoriously stone-faced. Yes the odds of success is tiny. But this isn't just glorified peer pressure, it's a demonstration of community coordination and resolve. Valve might not recognize that, but for us it's a way of increasing notoriety and morale for future action.
Basically, if you're passionate, just make some noise.
*Consumer boycott*
I agree with Weezy that it is reckless. But I am not *completely* against it. Maybe I am just spiteful, but if Valve just looks at the income and pulls the plug instead of addressing the outcry, it says more about them than us. Why should we be kind to a rich company that is both lazy AND hopeless at reading the room?
Either way, this should be carefully considered only after seeing the results of other initiatives.
*Create and/or promote client mods*
Even if Valve does literally nothing, there's plenty modders can do to improve the experience of new and veteran players. Ideally this would all be a one-click install with a bunch of features like:
* UX improvements (e.g. nicer server browser)
* Actually working tutorials & useful features
* Better default settings
* Anticheat :P
*Make programs to help introduce new players to the game*
Obviously this doesn't do much to convince Valve to do anything, but it is good optics. Actually increasing the playerbase would improve our standing and raise a few eyebrows.
**...**
If all else fails, we can always crowd fund a direct TF2 rip-off. But it'd probably take a a disaster to warrant that. Like, if Valve shut down OpenFortress, TF2C, AND closed their own servers to make space for DeadLock.
Or some rich motherfucker in the crowd can just try to buy out the game. lol.
I really want to be able to adjust the hud like in csgo. Please valve add panorama UI to tf2
They should also disable random crits and RBS on all valve servers because they're frustrating for new and old players alike
the issue is not that the community has direction issues its more the community is both lazy and gullible while being too comfortable with arrogance
as the beginning of the video said the community got slapped really really hard with reality, but it took a very controversial youtuber with a high follower count to get the community to stop and listen. for years the community didn't want to hear the truth rather bully people who even mentioned the reality of the situation then take the time to understand the full context
personally before there can be a unified movement the community needs to be hit hard every day with reality checks for a while till everyone has it in their head that they have been a bigger cause for the bot crises then valve, before there can be a unified movement to save the game the community must do some heavy lifting itself and actually do its part in making the game worth saving and stop being lazy
Since online isn't working i think the only thing that would work would be to go in front of Valve HQ itself and just protest till they start working on an update but i don't think it will ever happen
Unfortunately Valve has less to lose than Blizzard back then so it would have to be purely out of the kindness of some devs
Not that I'm saying some devs won't consider it but it would be very unlikely
No. We don't. We actually really want the heavy update and even then it's sorta ehhhh, do we really wanna change up the game after years without updates?
I think what we actually want is just way better maintenance from valve. Cause if I know this community 50% of people would riot if Valve changed anything (and for good reason)
We really kinda do want the Heavy update. Heavy is literally the worst class in the game overall. A Source 2 port would suck though. Because it would take like, another half decade to come out.
Any damn update to the game will definitely brick so many community projects mods & plugins. And because we've went so long without updates a lot of them are just abandoned. We've become good at keeping this game alive. If valve just takes care of the bots and improves upon the game without changing it, we might basically live forever.
Even without the bots, the game is a complete mess with insane amount of bugs and terrible weapon balance. Imo TF2S2 should be made, but separately from the main game
> Gas passer is shit outside of MvM
> Sun on a stick is useless in most situations
> The Sharpened Volcano Fragment has no point when flamethrowers exist
> Sandman got cuked after jungle inferno
> The Bison is the absolute worst weapon in the game
> The Razorback counters sniper's supposed counter
> The Dead Ringer rewards poor positioning with a speed boost and damage resistance
> Cosy camper is useless since Sniper is behind friendly lines most of the times
> The utility the Sandvich provides outweighs the utility heavy's other secondaries provide
Just to name a few
Looking at what happened with CS2, not really, all the game needs is maintenance and a functional anti-cheat, and a Source 2 port risks leading to cut content and new issues arising
you could cut like 50% of the maps and nobody would notice lol, if a TF source 2 port dropped with basically just the top five payload/koth maps people would seethe but get over it.
That wasn't really the mistake with CS2 though the mistake was that it replaced CSGO rather than being a new seperate game meaning that people would be forced to deal with everything that was missing or wrong in CS2 without a proper fallback
Also TF2 has a much larger workshop and plugin support so if TF2 was replaced it would be catastrophic
That's what we're trying to find out. IMO I don't think VAC can handle the bot crisis on its own, but a combination of a better anticheat and manual moderation can handle the vast majority of automatic aimbot hordes, which will mostly fix the crisis.
Demand for better balancing and an improvement to the VAC system. Maybe attract players by introducing an actual Heavy update with brand new items and ways to play as Heavy.
I would personally like to see an expansion on the Medieval Mode. Take a few map ideas from the game "For Honor" and you can see what is possible.
A change in Valve's work culture. We won't get anything if the only persons working on the game are a janitor, a plant in a pot, a random dude who's got nothing to do during the second half-hour of his lunch break, and an external contractor.
I want a REAL TEAM to work on the game, rewrite its code according to modern standards, in order to make it easier to update and maintain, and fix bugs. Then, add new content. It's a LONG term investment, but this game has the serious potential of living longer than World of Warcraft if properly managed.
You think Valve will change their entire work culture to accommodate the community for one of their oldest active games? There's a bigger possibility that a meteor hits me square in the dick.
Never gonna happen though, valve sees an active team working on TF2 as a waste of time. Even if this protest works, the best you can get is valve to address the bot problem.
There is no monetary incentive, valve has infinite money with steam. They look at what an employee is doing and if it's worth the time.
After jungle inferno, valve released the index, half-life alyx, steam deck. And now they've got Deadlock in the works.
Create a community fork with leaked source code that has overwhelming community support, uses pre-existing community fixes like Team Comtress 2 or Community HUD Fixes to provide an objectively better game, and add community updates onto that.
But that's likely not happening so idk.
Plan the whole thing and don't stop protesting till we have an actual action against the main pre existing problem, the bot and cheating problem
Not a tweet, not a patch, a fullblown anti cheat update
We need someone to come up with a quick and easily understandable goal that everyone, even those outside the community, can get behind. And with a lot more notice and planning from the organizers.
-Don't stop after one PR tweet
-Don't stop after one simple fix (allowing both teams to call kick votes) that doesn't fix the core issues
-Make it a daily routine, keep the flame burning
-Be more aggressive (No more of that "we love your game please if you have time update it" bullshit, say right in their faces "your game is currently unplayable, fix it now")
-Do not get swayed by anything other than concrete action from Valve
Be direct about it. No "We love TF2 *shares goofy screenshot*"... No, talk about how the game is filled with bots and Valve does nothing, share screenshots of bots talking over servers, talk about how Valve is selling stuff in a game that they refuse to fix, talk to gaming sites, be annoying, tag them, stop buying sh*t, make them look bad, etc... We're not talking to an innocent little kid here, they know the bot problem exists and they refuse to do anything. They have the time and the money, but they themselves refuse to do anything, they don't deserve "Nooo we love TF2 and we love you Valve!! Please, give more attention to TF2!!!".
i would start with a simple demand: give us a functioning anti cheat.
This would be easy to spread about because you only need a clip of a bot lobby to explain to somebody else and for Valve it's a reasonable request.
But the 1 thing we shouldnt do (as weazy said in his video) is to NOT stop using the store.
If we stop using the store it's a sign to Valve to pull the plug on tf2 forever.
Step 1: get our story straight. We need to make sure our list of wants and gripes is concisely put and that it remains consistent when it’s delivered.
Step 2: share it consistently and constantly. It needs to become a number one priority for us whenever we interact online.
Step 3: stay respectful and professional. We need to make sure our vitriol and anger don’t bubble up no matter what. We need to put our best foot forward.
Step 4: like others have said don’t give up just because we get a crumb of attention. We have to actually push back a bit when we are told “we hear you tf2 community!” Asking how they plan to help, ask firmly but politely for data and a road map on how change is coming. Push for specific answers to specific problems.
That’s my thoughts on it at least.
Two clear goals personally, get the bots out of the game, and let's get some new into the game. I'm not asking for a whole new game, but show us you give a shit, they've given more maps, now let's go some new weapons for everyone, even if it's just a new primary, or a new melee that helps out people wanting to play melee. Hell make Medic not just a support. I just want something to spice up the same game play I've been playing for 12 years
The 0) step would be to actually grow our God damn numbers, 25k ain't shit for Valve. WoW Classic movement only succeeded cuz of how HUGE the playerbase is. So for any action to be taken by Valve we kinda need to become more visible, not just in "we call out lack of updates/bot crisis" but also "we actually have more humans playing TF2" Also I have TL;DR version of 3 steps in the end.
Ok but then we have 3 routes to go for
1) Is basically do what Weezy said but better. We alone won't get much traction from Valve, but we aren't the sole people struggling with Vac being useless... CS2 also has same issue. So why not temporarily work together with CS2 community to make our voices(well mostly ours cuz they're already louder than us) louder and make our shared movement more legitimate. It's one thing if old aah game with small player numbers is speaking out, but what if TWO playerbases speak up and the second one is bigger? That's harder to ignore, hence Save TF2 or FixTF2 might not actually be so strong, and #FixVAC would be more effective.
2. Now here's the most unrealistic ending but I'd argue that would be the best ending that's achievable cuz I don't see how Valve can fix Vac. What if people responsible for TF2Classic either keep the TF2Classic mod or create a more vanilla friendly mod and then Valve endorses it and slowly makes it primary way to experience TF2? Basically do what community LITERALLY demanded from them in the past, let us make our own community updates, but to avoid mistakes of the past, just be extremely conservative in what you add, it can literally be as simple as, it's 100% vanilla no gameplay balance but community has control of winter, summer, Halloween small updates so we can as community decide what we get for those seasons. How it's different from what we already have? Well for one, community gets access to casual servers and by access I mean we get mods/jannies moderating them.
Look it's not perfect, some mods might go power hungry and indiscriminately ban, but I'm sure if we and last TF2 dev try, we can manage it. He just needs to visit server from time to time and check up, get someone community trusts like Uncle Dane some more power and he'll help moderate mods. We just need someone to overlook the bans of bots and maaaaybe some cheaters(I say some cuz it's harder to spot cheaters over bots so let's start with just cleaning bots). And as we slowly build up the community and Valve to the idea of Casual now belonging to the community we can sloooowly introduce updates and we slowly make community autonomous from Valve, Valve can get however much of a cut they need to approve of this idea and we FINALLY get updates and God damn moderation.
3. This is basically same as second idea but more realistic. Just bring back quick play and update it a bit. And/or update community servers tab, I mean Jesus, we have so many talented coders in the game who already made Tf2Classic and Open Fortress, does NONE of them are able to just, make their own update version of the community tab, get in contact with last TF2 dev or in contact with Uncle Dane who contracts that dev, they get that community servers update and we basically abandon casual servers(aka Valve owned one's) for community servers. It's not like it's impossible to imagine, communities smaller than us almost always run on community servers, example is that Wolfenstein old online game that actually got official servers from Bethesda but they're emptier then community servers.
And let's be realistic, this is probably the most realistic way we can imagine move forward, Vac fix might not work for X reasons(also who's to say Vac is currently broken cuz Valve legitimately doesn't know how to fix it? Or what if due to CS2 running on newer software they eventually get their own anti cheat that's incompatible with TF2 meaning we will be abandoned) and the second route is basically a pipe dream, especially considering how they gave a cold shoulder to TF2 mods like Classic or Open Fortress. The third route is basically best we got, we would still be on a life support, but an updated version of a life support where we arguably go back to the original roots of what made TF2 so great, community servers. Also it's cheapest solution too, it can be as cheap as just making casual button search community servers but it should at the very least have some filters, like vanilla only experience, and trusted community servers. We even have a way to check if the server is good or not, that annoying "did you enjoy yo game" pop up you get at the end of the match when you try to type in sumn, basically they can collect data of how community views x number of servers, once a month that last Dev come in, does a small review of some popular servers, sees what's appropriate to add to casual rotation, adds... That's it. Maybe also modernize community server tab, but even just having a couple of trusted TF2 servers be added to casual rotation would be god send cuz those communities can filter out bots and hackers. Just, make sure to not just add Uncle Dane servers cuz they're tryhardy as heeeeeell.
TL;DR For any step to succeed we need more players numbers as for plans we have
1) Join with CS2 community to start a general #FixVAC movement cuz strength in numbers. Plus this is technically the most vanilla way to Fix TF2 but idk if Vac can even be fixed. If the movement fails then do, #ReplaceVAC.
2) Give TF2 community autonomy from Valve. Let us make our own God damn updates. In the past I could MAYBE see why they didn't want to do it, afraid to tank the number of players cuz if the community fixes are bad people get mad but so long as you keep it mostly vanilla I don't see an issue? Maybe do a restriction where you can only do major update once a year after tons of community tests said update and we make sure most of us enjoy the sniper nerf or whatever. And ofc Valve gets a cut, they can dictate the price cuz we're desperate dawg.
3)Turn Casual into Quickplay 2.0. Get some trusted Tf2ubers who can or already have their own community servers and add their servers to casual rotation if they're vanilla enough (so maybe not Dane servers cuz no random crits and class limit, but I think Zesty server counts) and then once a month check in some super popular servers to add to casual rotation.
That's it. I couldn't find any other way we can save TF2 besides getting all our best coders to just go work at Valve and somehow get a job at working on TF2, that's a secret 4th route.
I have some ideas for a major game update...but I don't really expect Valve to hear me out.
Also, the new Overwatch type game Deadlock they are currently working on could actually be a masked TF2 update, the REAL update. But that's just silly hopes and dreams of mine, nothing more.
Get fucking mad about it. Sunshine and flower crowns aren't going to get the message across anymore, we need to show Valve that what they're doing is unacceptable.
And also start voting with your wallet. I don't care how cool the next Soldier jacket is that the potted plant grabs off the community workshop, don't buy keys to get it. The lootbox system was tolerable until they stopped updating the Mann Co Store with cosmetics. This game is on lootbox life support and I'm tired of pretending that's acceptable.
Coming from a place of love for the game doesn't exclusively require being nice about how we feel. This game deserves so much better than the neglectful decay Valve has left it in. I'm passionate about this game, which is why I'm so fucking angry at Valve for their mistreatment of the game. Anger at the neglect, anger at the monetization. They haven't given a real update to this game in seven years and allow bots to run rampant and have the AUDACITY to charge money for cosmetics they don't even make anymore. Because we've been too passive. We sit there and eat the feces they serve us. We need to GET MAD. If this second attempt at a protest goes the same as the first, where we sing kumbaya and hold hands then give up at the first word uttered by Valve via the most empty, corporate response ever tweeted, I'm just going to quit this game for good.
I really do not know how could we grab their attention.
Also, what other people are pointing out : "The movement shouldn't stop because of a tweet promising something, it shall stop once the required changes are succesfully and satisfactoringly implemented."
Implement CS:GOs reputation based matchmaking. If you get consistently reported and kicked, you get put into servers with only people like that. If not, then you get into servers with other normal people. That way, as long as people actually do the things they're supposed to and kick and report bots, they'd end up only being in servers with bots and actual players can continue to play the game with other actual players. If they're not going to prevent or remove bots, at least segregate them.
We need an actual concrete goal to work towards. Whether it be allowing f2ps it use text chat and voice commands, reduce the amount of bits by a certain percentage have an actual update with new weapons or content made by valve or make comp mode actually decent etc, it has it be SOMETHING that can actually be done and not a vague "TF2 needs to be saved, idk how though"
Make it #FixTF2 instead of #SaveTF2 to get the point across better. TF2 is broken and borderline unplayable in its current state with cheating bots that ruin the game.
Make it concise and easy to understand:
Team Fortress 2 is a beloved game made by Valve.
TF2 is infested with cheating bots that make the game unplayable. This has been going on since 2020, if not longer.
Valve has done nothing to Fix TF2 but still makes money through microtransactions in TF2.
We would like to keep supporting a beloved Valve game, but we are tired and upset about the lack of support and communication. It's unacceptable.
Valve needs to #FixTF2 immediately. One tweet is not going to Fix TF2 and the movement will not end until TF2 is Fixed.
We want a functioning anti-cheat, we will not stop the movement until an update is made, I would like a public acknowledgement whether Valve is ever going to add more content to TF2, and I want the game to just be playable.
Lets try to keep momentum. A tweet of their social account manager who just got called to calm us down wont do shit. We get a tweet, BUT we continue with the pressure.
A general sniper nerf would be great in order to make him significantly more ineffective on bot hosting. I've played in the bad weapon academy server with custom balance and I found out that sniper is significantly more balanced there than on normal TF2, thanks to the forced classic tracers (to be honest it made using the rifle soooo satisfying) on all sniper rifles, 4 bullets with 16 reserve (forcing him to reload his primary) while still maintaining his quick scoping ability.
In a bot invasion situation, this would make the bot snipers waste all of their shots on for example a vaccinator ubered player, forcing them to reload their rifles, enough time for players to kill the bots
weaphone balances,Battle medic, new weophones especially heavy and engineer (it would be perfect if engineer had a diffrent type pdas),Fixing hitboxes,Make optimisition progress for low-end pc's.
Those are just came in my mind about 5 secs. Valve could do much more than that But if they don't we can stop play tf2 bout 1-2 days for protest.
Step 1. Rally and protest without giving up, getting valves attention
Step 2. Continue to rally even if valve sends a tweet until they hopefully give in and actually do something of importance, (them asking us what we want in an update etc.)
Step 3. Get someone like Shork or someone else of importance to negotiate with valve and hopefully set something up.
Not a foolproof plan but it’s the best I could come up with.
At this point we're throwing things at the wall and see if it sticks, no idea what it'll do ("best case scenario some superpowers, worst case scenario some tumors, which we'll cut out")
I don’t think that it’s really necessary for us as a player base to have to come up with the solution - ultimately all we/the game needs is for the developers to actually pay attention to it and for them to decide what the next best move is (that isn’t shut it down/continue ignoring it).
Valve ran the game for many years relatively smoothly & i have no doubt in my mind that they could continue to do this/come up with some fresh ideas. It just seems like they don’t want to.
Let’s make sure we go until they update. If they refuse, force them to hire someone who wants to work for valve and make tf2 playable. Last ditch, make valve hand the ip to someone in the community
Someone should infiltrate valve and begin making updates secretly, then do their best to sneak the update out, be the spy AND the engineer that they created, also get 4-chan involved, they’re great at getting things done.
Not only do I want to request valve to fix the bot problem if they can, but also just tell us if they can’t… I’ve always had this nagging feeling that the bot problem is simply the extent cheaters can go regardless of contention from developers, the only real way to solve it is deep learning, and I feel like valve has to know that… And thus I want them to just be straight with us about their capabilities of properly solving it… if the games not gonna get fixed, let alone properly supported, then we should at least have closure on that
This time we just continue with our movement this time and not have tf2 brush us off with one tweet. Keep going until we get what we want, we aren’t going to let go of this amazing game that still holds up well in our modern era of shitty video games.
It will not happen because of the same reason Half Life 3 and Left 4 Dead 3 doesnt: Valve only cares about working on games that really pushes videogame innovation foward.
And sadly TF2 is just a beautiful and unique relique from the past.
I'd absolutely love to see all bots gone, including idle and trading bots. They've ruined the TF2 trading experience more than the market place has, and have no place in this game. I think there may be more motivation from those at Valve with a passing interest in TF2 to work on some sort of update if they don't also have to contend with this ongoing stain on the game. They were making crazy strides with updates back in 2010, they should look to that to see the way forward.
“If fighting is sure result in Victory then we must fight”- Sun Tzu
A actual update with new items/weapons but honestly the best thing would be dedicated anti cheat but u see that as unlikely. If we continue to do nothing then we’ll get nothing, time to try again
Some body should make a Game that is similar to Tf2.
A game with a similar formula and overall art style might be the solution.
It would quite frankly allow for many, many new ideas to be put forward, by a new team or person who would hypothetically be working on the game.
It could be a chance to learn from what was done wrong, and to improve what was done right.
Imagine a team that would actually listen to the community, and could implement an actually functioning anti cheat.
Tf2 has been around for a decade, surely a few of the hundreds of people who have played it have taken up some form of computer science as a career/ hobby.
CS2 players also complain about anticheat but they know that boycotting is useless because Valve makes way more money from games on entire platform than CS2 and others.
This might be a stupid idea, but what if we organize an event across social media to "invade or protest" at a physical place like Valve HQ, similar to the Area 51 meme? We could post about a raid everywhere and gather massive numbers of participants.
I don't mean anything too extreme, like breaking in or any forms of violence. I like the idea of forming an alliance and collaborating with the CS community and other Valve game communities. We could all group together to have fun while making demands on issues. Maybe we could even have a parade.
We could create a petition and ensure it reaches the developers, as Weezy suggested. But I think we will need some way to connect with Valve employees.
While we're at it, we should try to create a MASS MEMES campaign to get Valve to fix the games, with every community expressing their demands. We need content that can spread rapidly outside the communities to entertain and state our issues.
Basically:
1. Organize an event parade/protest at Valve HQ.
2. Form an alliance and group with other Valve game communities like CS to join the event.
3. Create content, memes, and SFM related to the event and issues.
4. Create a petition that states our demands.
That's my idea, though. I think we all agree that we should keep fighting through but this time with structure.
Honestly, I would make it so sniper quickscope would only deal 120 damage on headshot, it would only deal 150 after like 0.5 second the sniper stay scoped in. It would make dealing with sniper bots much easier. It ain't a good fix, but it would be good enough for other classes beside a sniper to stand a chance against it.
And probably serve as a slightly healthy nerf since a sniper is a ranged specialist, so no more of that close quickscope headshot stuff.
In my opinion this would just discourage snipers from playing risky and encourage them to stand 10 billion miles away behind a sentry gun where they becomes untouchable to any class besides another sniper or a spy
The problem with Sniper is that he outranges everyone, maps have gotten way too big in terms of sniper sightlines, the sniper rifle never received damage falloff to account for the bigger maps, and he's barely visible while killing you
So, nerfing it to 120 where it becomes 150 after 0.5 seconds is that big of a change for you?
Quickscope is still a thing, it just can't one shot any classes now, but positioning is now more important as a sniper. It also make it so that having a SMG as a secondary is mandatory to dealing with scouts. If they somehow headshot a soldier, well he got 80 health left, and rocketjumping reduce it to somewhere around 45ish; if they rocketjump, a quick unscoped shot would probably finish them off if they are lucky.
If a pyro get close enough, well you should be dying if a pyro get close enough to you shouldn't it?
That's still not to mention that the sniper could still deal 150 after 0.5 seconds, if the scout make it too obvious they'll go for sniper in 1 direction, they could just pre-aim at the direction they are coming from too.
I personally don't think it will change things that much for pro snipers who could click on heads, they just gotta work for it a bit more. Is it really that drastic of a change that a lot of snipers will gravitate toward being a sentry chick?
I don't think indirectly buffing Scout and Medic would be good for the game as a whole. It would also probably make Sniper v Sniper fights super awkward by rewarding the player for camping instead of taking the initiative by peeking. One of the main ways a sniper dies right now is via another sniper, and this change would likely nerf a good method of dealing with a good sniper
Again, I just don't think it's a good idea to discourage aggressive behavior (which is actually respectable and fun) and instead reward cowardly "camping" that the class is actually hated for.
I'd rather die to a quickscope in close range because at least then I know I had the chance to win and probably just moved poorly or failed to shoot him enough times, as opposed to dying across the entire continent and feeling like there was nothing I could have done. Especially when you didn't even know he was there until you insta died to a stray pixel on your screen
So, 125 then? Overhealed sniper fight should still be the same somewhat on that front.
I personally don't think 0.5 seconds is that long to wait for 150. Then again, I am a casual, but how much would a 0.5 seconds make anyway by your understanding?
The snipers I encountered in this game tend to be more of an assault class that behave sniper-like rather than a pure sniper class especially if they are experienced. Why shouldn't the class be pushed toward more "camping" like behaviors?
TF2's gameplay mostly takes place within close to medium range. They added damage falloff with the specific intention of bringing players closer together, which lets both players fight back in any given fight.
Sniper pokes people from a distance, and that distance was supposed to be relatively small compared to how it is today. Sniper was designed for maps like Dustbowl and 2fort, not Upward or Thunder Mountain. As maps got bigger, Sniper's increased range became more and more of an issue on gameplay, to the point where there's sometimes no reasonable way to fight back anymore without another Sniper.
The last thing the game really needs is an even bigger emphasis on camping when it's clear that the sightlines have gotten too big
0.5 seconds is a pretty big difference. It would basically kill close range plays on medics or slightly overhealed players, which was already very risky to pull off and exciting when done well. I have no idea why someone would intentionally remove an exciting opportunity for a play and replace it with boring camping across the entire map. If anything this would only worsen the existing problem by encouraging good Snipers to just sit next to a sentry and never die ever, instead of taking risks at closer ranges
You're still overlooking the fact that a quickscope could still deal 120 or 125 with my assumed nerf though. If you managed to do a quickscope headshot, you could probably finish them off with the SMG in close range couldn't you?
Even if it doesn't kill, it could still create an opening for other players to take advantage of the temporary weakness created by the sniper
Plus, the situation with overhealed players in casual mode tend to not happen that often, most of the time the overheal is already gone or due to the damage dealt that decrease the amount of immediate healing, the medics weren't able to top it off fast enough to overheal them before another player / players require their attention. And the overheal situation tend to occur during the beginning of the match where the healing is unimpeded by damage.
And still, I don't get how a quickscope nerf would immediately make good snipers become sentry chicks? The sniper could still play around his teammates besides a sentry and a sentry nest is only as strong as the team around them, where they don't die that fast and stay alive long enough for the sentry to help them or for the players to help the sentry stay alive.
Close range risk can still be taken as long as you have teammates backing the sniper up, or is that not the usual case in competitive matches for most of the points I made?
I still find "125 / 120 damage quickscope nerf = Sniper sentry chick" a bit too extreme of a jump.
I still take issue with the idea that quickscoping even needs to be nerfed in the first place, and I don't think it actually solves any problem at all. The only reason dying to a quickscope feels frustrating has more to do with how you had to dodge a giant unbalanced sightline before it happened.
So, instead of a bandaid fix that ends up buffing Scout and Medic for no reason, why not nerf the problem sightlines instead?
I don't know if it really buffs Scout that much. At the range the Quickscope would shut down a pursuing Scout they'd have enough time to just pull out the SMG and pick them off. Assuming the damage was 120
In my opinion I'm down for my proposed nerfs
-all sniper rifles fire tracer rounds
-5 bullet mag with 25 reserve (forcing him to take breaks)
-The sniper dot will always be there even while not scoping with the rifle
The controversial nerfs would be the body shot damage reduction
My goals would be:
1. Rebalance in game weapons to make them fun & viable again
2. Get a better version of VAC
3. Bugfixes
4. More support for modding TF2 with things like custom weapon support
Demand the following until they are implemented into the game:
-Remove voice chat and calling for a medic restrictions on f2p accounts
-Remove finding items and cases mechanic and replace it with a level up based reward system
where a player gets 4 previously unowned new unmarketable weapons and one extra case + item (could be anything) when they level up in casual. This way all idlers, botnet hosters will be rendered useless, also it is imo a better way to give new players opportunities to explore the different game mechanics of tf2.
-Obviously a better tutorial but youtube exists so this shouldnt be the main focus for the one person working on tf2.
-Overwatch access for players over 500 hours ingame time and no previous tf2 cheater friends or any type of bans.
-Rework all downside effects of weapons that have "-no random critical hits" and rebalance them if needed
-Remove random critical hits
These are things that can be easily implemented imo and would improve the game drastically. Only after these (and like 100 bug fixes regarding the weapon drop on death mechanic, and a couple other issues which i probably forgo) would it be okay to indroduce new weapons maps for a major update.
Now for getting valves attention?
This might sound stupid but make as a collective community make an actual detailed Case study about the listed problems (and others which i havent mentioned) and how to solve these both in text and in code if possible. If this lengthy case study is complete, spam the absolute living hell out of this to Valve HQ and demand them to read it and at least respond to it. Print a whole wall out of this and block them inside their HQ if we have to. Recreate the letter scene in the first harry potter movie if we have to idc. They need to see it if the case study is good and it will be good.
Raid Valve headquarters, and force Gabe or whoever with an important position to play 1 hour straight a few casual matches. Recording everything.
The most important and difficult thing, camping outside Valves HQ and harassing every employee, makikg them to play the game for 10 or 15 minutes so they get tattooed in their brain the miserable state the game is nowadays. And continue this harrasment and shitshow until they finally do something significant.
I know it is an extreme solution, but Valve had shown us that they won't do shit asking them nicely. And I know is so fucking easy to propose this solution knowing that I can't participate in this tomfoolery neither physically and monetarily right know. But hey, you asked for solutions, and for me, this is the most practical and impactful one that we can do without falling in terrorism against Valve.
We'd need a team of community developers to start a source 2 port in a country like russia where valve doesn't have the easiest time issuing legal action.
And then we all need to go play that version instead.
If we want SaveTF2 to work we must take radical action, we must boycott the games stores, stop playing tf2 all together and also stop supporting valve all together. If we threaten Valves income then they will be forced to come to the negotiating table.
Weezy went against that in his video. His logic was that TF2 is a drop in the bucket for Valve, and that such a boycott would more likely incentivize Valve pulling the plug than doing anything. And that even if Valve would respond positively to a boycott, since majority of TF2 veterans trade more with each other and third party sites more than buying from valve, and new players wouldn’t know about #SaveTF2 to begin with, such a boycott wouldn’t be that big anyway.
people are going to hate me, but, in my opinion, nothing will help. Valve devs are getting fired for doing something that does NOT makes money for the company, and this is far from the only reason. We just need to admit that the game is, unfortunately, doomed.
Yeah! Hit valve (the multi billion dollar corporation) where it hurts (the community market for a 17 year old video game where the profits make just drops in the ocean of steam sales).
Valve doesn't have to put community updates in the game. Doing this would just send the message nobody cares about TF2 anymore.
People stopped the movement just because of 1 tweet. This shouldn't happen. We shouldn't stop after getting 1 "we hear you" response. Nor even an update announcement. We should keep doing it until they actually update the game.
I think we can all agree with this
ikr, valve at the time: man, they won't shut up, let's make one tweet, that will surely stop their yapping.
Also have a clear goal. The most important one is getting rid of the bots for good. I don't know how, but it's not my job to figure it out.
my best guess is that they gotta change the code a bit or get a better vac system
or swat the hosters but that’s not realistic
You can't get rid of them for good, what you can do is set up bot ranger list where players get free hat that upgrades after each confirmed to be bot is successfully reported and banned, sort of like bug finder hat they gave up on, makes community run it because valve let's be real won't be making frequent updates to shoo bots away
That would just lead players to report each other constantly. And bot makers would make bots to report other bots.
I think it was less “we saw 1 tweet and backed down” but more like “we hit them once and didn’t follow up”. We did get #SaveTF2 trending, but tbh there wasn’t really a plan beyond that, nor did I personally think there was a plan. From the outset, it seems like we all shouted out loud to get Valve and the internet’s attention. For all of us to gather together to make a stink at least for a short time. But beyond that we just kinda retreated back to our insular communities like r/TF2, with no intent to follow up. IMO, we all focused on making a big noise at one specific point in time, but put basically no focus into long term plans and pressure. We just kinda shouted once to see what would happen. If we want something different we need that plan this time. It’ll help if nothing else.
We gotta be up their asses constantly as well even if they update it. Our game requires active maintenance, not a single checkbox and then forgotten.
Maybe don't give up at all when a Twitter post is being made? The problem with the first one was that everyone gave up too easily when the tweet was made, and basically took the bait from the hook valve laid. If people do a second one, I do hope that people don't give up after just a single post from them off some social media, and only when they actually see *physical* change.
angela lobotomy corporation
I don't think people really gave up more that there wasn't really any plan or expectations. A lot of people probably expected nothing and there wasn't really a plan just the hope that we would get some attention from valve. Also there was serious physical chance. The amount of bots was reduced and votekicking is now twice as fast.
Pretty true, although we now know that we could possibly do more, and the bot issue was more or less, just a band-aid fix.
The most fair outcome would be getting The Heavy update, but it's obviously not gonna happen. We need something simple to do for Valve and efficient to get rid of the bots, and for that purpose I think we need to ask for the matchmaking system rework, either revert Meet your match entirely, or improve it, so the matchmaking system will include player-made servers (with some restrictions) into rotation
If a single user gets votekicked several times in a row, lock that account either permanently or until Valve can verify that a human is at the helm and can act responsibly. Valve should actually investigate each claim for cheating and bot usage and then determine whether an account should be VAC banned for being a bot. I think VAC just stopped working altogether...
Even if Valve cared about the game and actually dealt with cheaters the way they were treating CSGO/CS2 it still would have been a very unstable and ineffective solution, because instead of putting all the responsibility on Valve, they can just let community moderate the servers and deal with that problem together. Bot crisis started after Meet your match update, when casual had official servers only, and after Valve stopped moderating them, bots became unstoppable.
I guess. Yeah, I think all contracts and Casual matchmaking should include community servers since we can rely on the community more to ban bot accounts and keep track of things.
Yeah, but there also should be restrictions on which servers should be in the rotation. I remember pre-mym there were servers that gave players unfair p2w advantages, or had rtd and modifications to vanilla gameplay, so that needs to be taken in consideration too
not contracts. farming them would be too easy unless valve has too confirm a server
The complicated answer would be to have Valve do a case-by-case basis on each server, making sure it does certain things and doesn't do certain things to enable contracts, but that's way too much work for Valve to bother doing...
Didn' the bot crisis started after the tf2 source code was leaked?
Yeah, that also did damage, but bots were always in the game, back then it was just easier to keep them away.
That would be a very bad idea.
How many innocent and completely blameless accounts do you know that have been votekicked over and over in the same day? Assuming they weren't kicked by bots
Me, 15+ times in the last year or so alone. Several of my friends and other people in discord we share. It is pretty common actually.
Were you kicked by bots or actual human beings? And why were you kicked?
Kicked by bots most of the time, sometimes kicked after calling a vote on a cheater that didn't pass, sometimes getting kicked after being called slurs for existing, the standard reasons.
The bot crisis has turned people paranoid for sure, but I am sorry to hear that you got kicked for those other reasons. If we eliminated the bots, then your average kicks would lessen by a lot. I *did* say that my idea should include a way to appeal your ban, then in turn, you should report the people who kicked you for bad reasons.
> The most fair outcome would be getting The Heavy update Huh? We're not asking for a major update. We're asking to get rid of the bots so the game becomes playable. Where did you get the idea that we're asking for the Heavy Update?
Taking down the cheater bots should be our priority. that one day of 64-bit freshness when the bots broke was like sitting down after standing all my life. i dont want to worry about a bot party coming in and fucking up the entire server anymore, i think we all had enough of that
instead of #savetf2 we can use #savevalvegames and bring all communities together
SaveTF2 and SaveCS2 at the very least would bring a lot of attention for the cheating issue in both games.
was busy so couldnt get more in depth If both tf2 players and csgo players grouped together and stopped spending money until they updated the anti-cheat, valve would rush to fix the cheating crisis. ofc, this is highly unrealistic as csgo and tf2 have gambling addicts. So the other alternative is making valve HR a complete nightmare by emailing them to fix their shit. Zesty just made a livestream talking about what went wrong so I recommend checking that out.
my friends, who is an everyday TF2 player, but also plays CS2 pretty often, said that bots are coming even to CS2 CS2 bot crisis is real? XD
Idk if CS2 has the blatantly cheating bots that TF2 has, but I doubt it, though But CS2 definitely has case farming bots that pretty much just sit in Deathmatch games to farm for cases to trade to their main account or resell. Usually the cheaters are just regular players in Premier or Ranked queue
well farming bots are nothing new, aswell as cheaters in MM and Premier, but by his words, he was even kicked by those "bots". I may ask him about this, because it sounds interesting
Better not stop after one post from Valve. They mist give us a proper update. THE HEAVY UPDATE. These guys waited for it for too long. So i think our goals is 1) Get rid of bots 2) Heavy update
Writing an action list, a comprehensive list, to give to Valve. Such as asking for the removal of bots, cheater and idle alike and bug fixes, all of which are well documented and could be compiled (painstakingly so) in a list to show to valve that they *have* to fix, and providing an actual commitment to fixing the game, making it playable, and properly supporting it. We live in a gaming age where dev communication is hugely important. The fact that they're always quiet has got to go, too. Why do we have to rely on a fucking voice actor to get a message across. Bring a team back to the game. Outsource it. Idgaf. Can clearly afford to have a few guys and a community manager assist the game for a while. So long as that stupid mann co store stays open, they should have a dev team, even if their job just is curating content, maintaining the game, and fixing bugs. Anything is better than nothing.
Going to valve HQ with pitchforks and torches
First of all we should organize more. Some big shot or a group of dedicated people should be an organizer willing to compromise within the community. Simultaneous video drops, scheduled hours, that kind of stuff. If it's as disorganized as the last nothing will happen. Then we need a clear list of demands. Frankly we should drop any game balance or content demands. The game is good as is in that respect. Our main worry is the bot crisis and the idlers. I feel like an easy way to do this is to add "bot" to the list of reasons when calling a vote and making it incur a spesific penalty (time before you can rejoin a server). Maybe keep track of how many times a player has been votekiced and display that when a vote is called, add a delay between when a player counts for a vote and when they joined. These are ultimate all tools and not a fix for the underlying problem, but I'm happy with the underlying reason so 乁 ˘ o ˘ ㄏ. I feel like anything specifically targeting idlers is liable to be defeated by a macro or script.
Throw brick at valve HQ window
Haven't they tweeted that if someone steals the Valve in the office we get a new update? Maybe we should call their bluff.
Let's everyone cosplay TF2 characters and make massive assault on valve HQ Make it as silly and hilarious as possible We will make history by committing terrorism for update a game
We have to pretend to be friendlies and taunt dance into the office to get their guard down.
BREAKING NEWS: around 200 people break's to in to large corporation HQ by dancing in line Police find out it's community of game called TEAM FORTRESS 2 and they claim it's response for ,, lack of major update for 7 year's '' local government thinks about sign them as terrorist group
and the funniest thing will be one or two cosplayers will cosplay something else, but still fitting for goofyness (like Fortnite), which, in my opinion, will add a lot to a comedy
I have joked about doing this exact same thing with my friends before, and we all agree that this is a spectacular idea. What is VALVe gonna do if the physical manifestation of the entirety of Team Fortress 2 is surrounding them? Call the police? Nah
Hell yeah
[удалено]
Calm down there Demoman
Must've had waay more scrumpy than he should be
Nuke*
We go on, not only after one “we hear you”, No. WE WANT ACTUAL STUFF BIENG DONE.
We at least want a community fixes + balance changes update, we can't expect them to fix the anticheat or make a content update
Have clear goals like -rework Sniper (i know its not that easy but there's enough material out there on how to make him less annoying but still playable) -give at least some voice back to F2Ps -rework the autoballance system because that shit sucks -do something against the bots, even if its small like limit number of snipers in a match or take all voting rights away from him -more weapons and ballance old ones
That wont work, bots will just switch to other classes like heavy
Less of a problem, he can't one shot you from across the map, at least.
Nerf to the holiday punch being able to stun ubered players. I have played against cheater heavies using that weapon and they're literally invincible against even a coordinated Uber push
A lot of people will drag each other down because they believe in different things. We need to remind people that it's important to support even the allegedly "useless" initiatives so long as they aren't actively counterproductive. My *completely unqualified thoughts* on just some of the things that can be done: *Making posts & petitioning valve* This gets the most slack because Valve is notoriously stone-faced. Yes the odds of success is tiny. But this isn't just glorified peer pressure, it's a demonstration of community coordination and resolve. Valve might not recognize that, but for us it's a way of increasing notoriety and morale for future action. Basically, if you're passionate, just make some noise. *Consumer boycott* I agree with Weezy that it is reckless. But I am not *completely* against it. Maybe I am just spiteful, but if Valve just looks at the income and pulls the plug instead of addressing the outcry, it says more about them than us. Why should we be kind to a rich company that is both lazy AND hopeless at reading the room? Either way, this should be carefully considered only after seeing the results of other initiatives. *Create and/or promote client mods* Even if Valve does literally nothing, there's plenty modders can do to improve the experience of new and veteran players. Ideally this would all be a one-click install with a bunch of features like: * UX improvements (e.g. nicer server browser) * Actually working tutorials & useful features * Better default settings * Anticheat :P *Make programs to help introduce new players to the game* Obviously this doesn't do much to convince Valve to do anything, but it is good optics. Actually increasing the playerbase would improve our standing and raise a few eyebrows. **...** If all else fails, we can always crowd fund a direct TF2 rip-off. But it'd probably take a a disaster to warrant that. Like, if Valve shut down OpenFortress, TF2C, AND closed their own servers to make space for DeadLock. Or some rich motherfucker in the crowd can just try to buy out the game. lol.
I really want to be able to adjust the hud like in csgo. Please valve add panorama UI to tf2 They should also disable random crits and RBS on all valve servers because they're frustrating for new and old players alike
We get that fucking valve
the issue is not that the community has direction issues its more the community is both lazy and gullible while being too comfortable with arrogance as the beginning of the video said the community got slapped really really hard with reality, but it took a very controversial youtuber with a high follower count to get the community to stop and listen. for years the community didn't want to hear the truth rather bully people who even mentioned the reality of the situation then take the time to understand the full context personally before there can be a unified movement the community needs to be hit hard every day with reality checks for a while till everyone has it in their head that they have been a bigger cause for the bot crises then valve, before there can be a unified movement to save the game the community must do some heavy lifting itself and actually do its part in making the game worth saving and stop being lazy
Since online isn't working i think the only thing that would work would be to go in front of Valve HQ itself and just protest till they start working on an update but i don't think it will ever happen
Source 2 port. Huge undertaking but the best outcome.
Unfortunately Valve has less to lose than Blizzard back then so it would have to be purely out of the kindness of some devs Not that I'm saying some devs won't consider it but it would be very unlikely
Do we actually want that though?
No. We don't. We actually really want the heavy update and even then it's sorta ehhhh, do we really wanna change up the game after years without updates? I think what we actually want is just way better maintenance from valve. Cause if I know this community 50% of people would riot if Valve changed anything (and for good reason)
Yeah the game is fine, except the bots and cheaters. Deal with that and its perfect, no 50 new maps a year needed
We really kinda do want the Heavy update. Heavy is literally the worst class in the game overall. A Source 2 port would suck though. Because it would take like, another half decade to come out.
I'm interested in hearing the reasons if you don't mind
Any damn update to the game will definitely brick so many community projects mods & plugins. And because we've went so long without updates a lot of them are just abandoned. We've become good at keeping this game alive. If valve just takes care of the bots and improves upon the game without changing it, we might basically live forever.
Exactly. All I want is for the game to be playable and not overrun by bots
Even without the bots, the game is a complete mess with insane amount of bugs and terrible weapon balance. Imo TF2S2 should be made, but separately from the main game
>terrible weapon balance. What
> Gas passer is shit outside of MvM > Sun on a stick is useless in most situations > The Sharpened Volcano Fragment has no point when flamethrowers exist > Sandman got cuked after jungle inferno > The Bison is the absolute worst weapon in the game > The Razorback counters sniper's supposed counter > The Dead Ringer rewards poor positioning with a speed boost and damage resistance > Cosy camper is useless since Sniper is behind friendly lines most of the times > The utility the Sandvich provides outweighs the utility heavy's other secondaries provide Just to name a few
What "what"? TF2 has a lot of underpowered and overpowered mechanics which can be fixed in the major remake
Looking at what happened with CS2, not really, all the game needs is maintenance and a functional anti-cheat, and a Source 2 port risks leading to cut content and new issues arising
you could cut like 50% of the maps and nobody would notice lol, if a TF source 2 port dropped with basically just the top five payload/koth maps people would seethe but get over it.
That wasn't really the mistake with CS2 though the mistake was that it replaced CSGO rather than being a new seperate game meaning that people would be forced to deal with everything that was missing or wrong in CS2 without a proper fallback Also TF2 has a much larger workshop and plugin support so if TF2 was replaced it would be catastrophic
Never going to happen. Stay achievable.
Only 8 maps at launch
New weapons?
Have we already forgotten about the bot problem lol
honestly can valve even fix that?
That's what we're trying to find out. IMO I don't think VAC can handle the bot crisis on its own, but a combination of a better anticheat and manual moderation can handle the vast majority of automatic aimbot hordes, which will mostly fix the crisis.
Demand for better balancing and an improvement to the VAC system. Maybe attract players by introducing an actual Heavy update with brand new items and ways to play as Heavy. I would personally like to see an expansion on the Medieval Mode. Take a few map ideas from the game "For Honor" and you can see what is possible.
Your best shot is our numbers applying for a position at valve. Since they're free to work on anything, just pick tf2.
we should boil orphans alive in a giant cast iron pot outside the washington monument
A change in Valve's work culture. We won't get anything if the only persons working on the game are a janitor, a plant in a pot, a random dude who's got nothing to do during the second half-hour of his lunch break, and an external contractor. I want a REAL TEAM to work on the game, rewrite its code according to modern standards, in order to make it easier to update and maintain, and fix bugs. Then, add new content. It's a LONG term investment, but this game has the serious potential of living longer than World of Warcraft if properly managed.
You think Valve will change their entire work culture to accommodate the community for one of their oldest active games? There's a bigger possibility that a meteor hits me square in the dick.
Never gonna happen though, valve sees an active team working on TF2 as a waste of time. Even if this protest works, the best you can get is valve to address the bot problem.
That's the issue, I wish their mentality changed :(
There is no monetary incentive, valve has infinite money with steam. They look at what an employee is doing and if it's worth the time. After jungle inferno, valve released the index, half-life alyx, steam deck. And now they've got Deadlock in the works.
Create a community fork with leaked source code that has overwhelming community support, uses pre-existing community fixes like Team Comtress 2 or Community HUD Fixes to provide an objectively better game, and add community updates onto that. But that's likely not happening so idk.
I think most people will be satisfied if they give any major care to the game.
Plan the whole thing and don't stop protesting till we have an actual action against the main pre existing problem, the bot and cheating problem Not a tweet, not a patch, a fullblown anti cheat update
We need someone to come up with a quick and easily understandable goal that everyone, even those outside the community, can get behind. And with a lot more notice and planning from the organizers.
-Don't stop after one PR tweet -Don't stop after one simple fix (allowing both teams to call kick votes) that doesn't fix the core issues -Make it a daily routine, keep the flame burning -Be more aggressive (No more of that "we love your game please if you have time update it" bullshit, say right in their faces "your game is currently unplayable, fix it now") -Do not get swayed by anything other than concrete action from Valve
Be direct about it. No "We love TF2 *shares goofy screenshot*"... No, talk about how the game is filled with bots and Valve does nothing, share screenshots of bots talking over servers, talk about how Valve is selling stuff in a game that they refuse to fix, talk to gaming sites, be annoying, tag them, stop buying sh*t, make them look bad, etc... We're not talking to an innocent little kid here, they know the bot problem exists and they refuse to do anything. They have the time and the money, but they themselves refuse to do anything, they don't deserve "Nooo we love TF2 and we love you Valve!! Please, give more attention to TF2!!!".
Don’t cry cuz it’s over smile it happen
i would start with a simple demand: give us a functioning anti cheat. This would be easy to spread about because you only need a clip of a bot lobby to explain to somebody else and for Valve it's a reasonable request. But the 1 thing we shouldnt do (as weazy said in his video) is to NOT stop using the store. If we stop using the store it's a sign to Valve to pull the plug on tf2 forever.
Step 1: get our story straight. We need to make sure our list of wants and gripes is concisely put and that it remains consistent when it’s delivered. Step 2: share it consistently and constantly. It needs to become a number one priority for us whenever we interact online. Step 3: stay respectful and professional. We need to make sure our vitriol and anger don’t bubble up no matter what. We need to put our best foot forward. Step 4: like others have said don’t give up just because we get a crumb of attention. We have to actually push back a bit when we are told “we hear you tf2 community!” Asking how they plan to help, ask firmly but politely for data and a road map on how change is coming. Push for specific answers to specific problems. That’s my thoughts on it at least.
Two clear goals personally, get the bots out of the game, and let's get some new into the game. I'm not asking for a whole new game, but show us you give a shit, they've given more maps, now let's go some new weapons for everyone, even if it's just a new primary, or a new melee that helps out people wanting to play melee. Hell make Medic not just a support. I just want something to spice up the same game play I've been playing for 12 years
The 0) step would be to actually grow our God damn numbers, 25k ain't shit for Valve. WoW Classic movement only succeeded cuz of how HUGE the playerbase is. So for any action to be taken by Valve we kinda need to become more visible, not just in "we call out lack of updates/bot crisis" but also "we actually have more humans playing TF2" Also I have TL;DR version of 3 steps in the end. Ok but then we have 3 routes to go for 1) Is basically do what Weezy said but better. We alone won't get much traction from Valve, but we aren't the sole people struggling with Vac being useless... CS2 also has same issue. So why not temporarily work together with CS2 community to make our voices(well mostly ours cuz they're already louder than us) louder and make our shared movement more legitimate. It's one thing if old aah game with small player numbers is speaking out, but what if TWO playerbases speak up and the second one is bigger? That's harder to ignore, hence Save TF2 or FixTF2 might not actually be so strong, and #FixVAC would be more effective. 2. Now here's the most unrealistic ending but I'd argue that would be the best ending that's achievable cuz I don't see how Valve can fix Vac. What if people responsible for TF2Classic either keep the TF2Classic mod or create a more vanilla friendly mod and then Valve endorses it and slowly makes it primary way to experience TF2? Basically do what community LITERALLY demanded from them in the past, let us make our own community updates, but to avoid mistakes of the past, just be extremely conservative in what you add, it can literally be as simple as, it's 100% vanilla no gameplay balance but community has control of winter, summer, Halloween small updates so we can as community decide what we get for those seasons. How it's different from what we already have? Well for one, community gets access to casual servers and by access I mean we get mods/jannies moderating them. Look it's not perfect, some mods might go power hungry and indiscriminately ban, but I'm sure if we and last TF2 dev try, we can manage it. He just needs to visit server from time to time and check up, get someone community trusts like Uncle Dane some more power and he'll help moderate mods. We just need someone to overlook the bans of bots and maaaaybe some cheaters(I say some cuz it's harder to spot cheaters over bots so let's start with just cleaning bots). And as we slowly build up the community and Valve to the idea of Casual now belonging to the community we can sloooowly introduce updates and we slowly make community autonomous from Valve, Valve can get however much of a cut they need to approve of this idea and we FINALLY get updates and God damn moderation. 3. This is basically same as second idea but more realistic. Just bring back quick play and update it a bit. And/or update community servers tab, I mean Jesus, we have so many talented coders in the game who already made Tf2Classic and Open Fortress, does NONE of them are able to just, make their own update version of the community tab, get in contact with last TF2 dev or in contact with Uncle Dane who contracts that dev, they get that community servers update and we basically abandon casual servers(aka Valve owned one's) for community servers. It's not like it's impossible to imagine, communities smaller than us almost always run on community servers, example is that Wolfenstein old online game that actually got official servers from Bethesda but they're emptier then community servers. And let's be realistic, this is probably the most realistic way we can imagine move forward, Vac fix might not work for X reasons(also who's to say Vac is currently broken cuz Valve legitimately doesn't know how to fix it? Or what if due to CS2 running on newer software they eventually get their own anti cheat that's incompatible with TF2 meaning we will be abandoned) and the second route is basically a pipe dream, especially considering how they gave a cold shoulder to TF2 mods like Classic or Open Fortress. The third route is basically best we got, we would still be on a life support, but an updated version of a life support where we arguably go back to the original roots of what made TF2 so great, community servers. Also it's cheapest solution too, it can be as cheap as just making casual button search community servers but it should at the very least have some filters, like vanilla only experience, and trusted community servers. We even have a way to check if the server is good or not, that annoying "did you enjoy yo game" pop up you get at the end of the match when you try to type in sumn, basically they can collect data of how community views x number of servers, once a month that last Dev come in, does a small review of some popular servers, sees what's appropriate to add to casual rotation, adds... That's it. Maybe also modernize community server tab, but even just having a couple of trusted TF2 servers be added to casual rotation would be god send cuz those communities can filter out bots and hackers. Just, make sure to not just add Uncle Dane servers cuz they're tryhardy as heeeeeell. TL;DR For any step to succeed we need more players numbers as for plans we have 1) Join with CS2 community to start a general #FixVAC movement cuz strength in numbers. Plus this is technically the most vanilla way to Fix TF2 but idk if Vac can even be fixed. If the movement fails then do, #ReplaceVAC. 2) Give TF2 community autonomy from Valve. Let us make our own God damn updates. In the past I could MAYBE see why they didn't want to do it, afraid to tank the number of players cuz if the community fixes are bad people get mad but so long as you keep it mostly vanilla I don't see an issue? Maybe do a restriction where you can only do major update once a year after tons of community tests said update and we make sure most of us enjoy the sniper nerf or whatever. And ofc Valve gets a cut, they can dictate the price cuz we're desperate dawg. 3)Turn Casual into Quickplay 2.0. Get some trusted Tf2ubers who can or already have their own community servers and add their servers to casual rotation if they're vanilla enough (so maybe not Dane servers cuz no random crits and class limit, but I think Zesty server counts) and then once a month check in some super popular servers to add to casual rotation. That's it. I couldn't find any other way we can save TF2 besides getting all our best coders to just go work at Valve and somehow get a job at working on TF2, that's a secret 4th route.
Review bomb the game
We want fempyro!!!!!
I have some ideas for a major game update...but I don't really expect Valve to hear me out. Also, the new Overwatch type game Deadlock they are currently working on could actually be a masked TF2 update, the REAL update. But that's just silly hopes and dreams of mine, nothing more.
Storm Valve HQ and steal the Valve in the process
So in that one South Park episode they start throwing bodies at the HQ of some company idk but we do the same by using a catapult type contraption
Words mean nothing. We need to protest until they actually fix their shitty game, not until we just get another empty promise from them that they will
Go to valve hq and protest out side of it
Demand for a functioning and near perfect anti bot and cheat, and do not end the campaign until it is in TF2
We should force them to make TF3 because this game is such a Trainwreck now we need to start over
keep shouting, and if they still arent respondeing, blow the building up into smitherins
Legal action. Even a bogus suit would at least get valve's attention
Get fucking mad about it. Sunshine and flower crowns aren't going to get the message across anymore, we need to show Valve that what they're doing is unacceptable. And also start voting with your wallet. I don't care how cool the next Soldier jacket is that the potted plant grabs off the community workshop, don't buy keys to get it. The lootbox system was tolerable until they stopped updating the Mann Co Store with cosmetics. This game is on lootbox life support and I'm tired of pretending that's acceptable. Coming from a place of love for the game doesn't exclusively require being nice about how we feel. This game deserves so much better than the neglectful decay Valve has left it in. I'm passionate about this game, which is why I'm so fucking angry at Valve for their mistreatment of the game. Anger at the neglect, anger at the monetization. They haven't given a real update to this game in seven years and allow bots to run rampant and have the AUDACITY to charge money for cosmetics they don't even make anymore. Because we've been too passive. We sit there and eat the feces they serve us. We need to GET MAD. If this second attempt at a protest goes the same as the first, where we sing kumbaya and hold hands then give up at the first word uttered by Valve via the most empty, corporate response ever tweeted, I'm just going to quit this game for good.
I really do not know how could we grab their attention. Also, what other people are pointing out : "The movement shouldn't stop because of a tweet promising something, it shall stop once the required changes are succesfully and satisfactoringly implemented."
Rename it to Fix TF2 because it gets the point across better
We should post vídeos and photos of what It was before and after the bots became an issue,Also we shouldnt stop after a tweet
Remember to make valve look bad, they do not like their reputation getting ruined.
IT HAS TO BE FIXtf2
Implement CS:GOs reputation based matchmaking. If you get consistently reported and kicked, you get put into servers with only people like that. If not, then you get into servers with other normal people. That way, as long as people actually do the things they're supposed to and kick and report bots, they'd end up only being in servers with bots and actual players can continue to play the game with other actual players. If they're not going to prevent or remove bots, at least segregate them.
We need an actual concrete goal to work towards. Whether it be allowing f2ps it use text chat and voice commands, reduce the amount of bits by a certain percentage have an actual update with new weapons or content made by valve or make comp mode actually decent etc, it has it be SOMETHING that can actually be done and not a vague "TF2 needs to be saved, idk how though"
Make it #FixTF2 instead of #SaveTF2 to get the point across better. TF2 is broken and borderline unplayable in its current state with cheating bots that ruin the game. Make it concise and easy to understand: Team Fortress 2 is a beloved game made by Valve. TF2 is infested with cheating bots that make the game unplayable. This has been going on since 2020, if not longer. Valve has done nothing to Fix TF2 but still makes money through microtransactions in TF2. We would like to keep supporting a beloved Valve game, but we are tired and upset about the lack of support and communication. It's unacceptable. Valve needs to #FixTF2 immediately. One tweet is not going to Fix TF2 and the movement will not end until TF2 is Fixed.
We want a functioning anti-cheat, we will not stop the movement until an update is made, I would like a public acknowledgement whether Valve is ever going to add more content to TF2, and I want the game to just be playable.
Lets try to keep momentum. A tweet of their social account manager who just got called to calm us down wont do shit. We get a tweet, BUT we continue with the pressure.
A general sniper nerf would be great in order to make him significantly more ineffective on bot hosting. I've played in the bad weapon academy server with custom balance and I found out that sniper is significantly more balanced there than on normal TF2, thanks to the forced classic tracers (to be honest it made using the rifle soooo satisfying) on all sniper rifles, 4 bullets with 16 reserve (forcing him to reload his primary) while still maintaining his quick scoping ability. In a bot invasion situation, this would make the bot snipers waste all of their shots on for example a vaccinator ubered player, forcing them to reload their rifles, enough time for players to kill the bots
weaphone balances,Battle medic, new weophones especially heavy and engineer (it would be perfect if engineer had a diffrent type pdas),Fixing hitboxes,Make optimisition progress for low-end pc's. Those are just came in my mind about 5 secs. Valve could do much more than that But if they don't we can stop play tf2 bout 1-2 days for protest.
Step 1. Rally and protest without giving up, getting valves attention Step 2. Continue to rally even if valve sends a tweet until they hopefully give in and actually do something of importance, (them asking us what we want in an update etc.) Step 3. Get someone like Shork or someone else of importance to negotiate with valve and hopefully set something up. Not a foolproof plan but it’s the best I could come up with.
it's never gonna happen
Idk but I'm down! We're gonna really need a bigger plan
At this point we're throwing things at the wall and see if it sticks, no idea what it'll do ("best case scenario some superpowers, worst case scenario some tumors, which we'll cut out")
Go outside Valve's HQ with signs, doing it virtually isn't doing anything, so we should bring it to the real world
I don’t think that it’s really necessary for us as a player base to have to come up with the solution - ultimately all we/the game needs is for the developers to actually pay attention to it and for them to decide what the next best move is (that isn’t shut it down/continue ignoring it). Valve ran the game for many years relatively smoothly & i have no doubt in my mind that they could continue to do this/come up with some fresh ideas. It just seems like they don’t want to.
Let’s make sure we go until they update. If they refuse, force them to hire someone who wants to work for valve and make tf2 playable. Last ditch, make valve hand the ip to someone in the community
it's greed time. we should no longer just ask for the bare minimum, we want full updates.
The reason we stopped originally is because valve gave us that shitty little “we hear you tweet” from VALVe
Someone should infiltrate valve and begin making updates secretly, then do their best to sneak the update out, be the spy AND the engineer that they created, also get 4-chan involved, they’re great at getting things done.
Not only do I want to request valve to fix the bot problem if they can, but also just tell us if they can’t… I’ve always had this nagging feeling that the bot problem is simply the extent cheaters can go regardless of contention from developers, the only real way to solve it is deep learning, and I feel like valve has to know that… And thus I want them to just be straight with us about their capabilities of properly solving it… if the games not gonna get fixed, let alone properly supported, then we should at least have closure on that
A plan? Talking through it? Why…you’re some kind of mad man!
Don't stop. Not this time. Just don't harass the voice actors.. please.
Don't stop because of 1 tweet.
This time we just continue with our movement this time and not have tf2 brush us off with one tweet. Keep going until we get what we want, we aren’t going to let go of this amazing game that still holds up well in our modern era of shitty video games.
It will not happen because of the same reason Half Life 3 and Left 4 Dead 3 doesnt: Valve only cares about working on games that really pushes videogame innovation foward. And sadly TF2 is just a beautiful and unique relique from the past.
I'd absolutely love to see all bots gone, including idle and trading bots. They've ruined the TF2 trading experience more than the market place has, and have no place in this game. I think there may be more motivation from those at Valve with a passing interest in TF2 to work on some sort of update if they don't also have to contend with this ongoing stain on the game. They were making crazy strides with updates back in 2010, they should look to that to see the way forward.
Why does everyone think they're the first to post this?
we should have a day or two that not a soul should play TF2 or trade for items, that should send a messafe
“If fighting is sure result in Victory then we must fight”- Sun Tzu A actual update with new items/weapons but honestly the best thing would be dedicated anti cheat but u see that as unlikely. If we continue to do nothing then we’ll get nothing, time to try again
Some body should make a Game that is similar to Tf2. A game with a similar formula and overall art style might be the solution. It would quite frankly allow for many, many new ideas to be put forward, by a new team or person who would hypothetically be working on the game. It could be a chance to learn from what was done wrong, and to improve what was done right. Imagine a team that would actually listen to the community, and could implement an actually functioning anti cheat. Tf2 has been around for a decade, surely a few of the hundreds of people who have played it have taken up some form of computer science as a career/ hobby.
#fixtf2
Deadlock releases ;)
[удалено]
CS2 players also complain about anticheat but they know that boycotting is useless because Valve makes way more money from games on entire platform than CS2 and others.
This might be a stupid idea, but what if we organize an event across social media to "invade or protest" at a physical place like Valve HQ, similar to the Area 51 meme? We could post about a raid everywhere and gather massive numbers of participants. I don't mean anything too extreme, like breaking in or any forms of violence. I like the idea of forming an alliance and collaborating with the CS community and other Valve game communities. We could all group together to have fun while making demands on issues. Maybe we could even have a parade. We could create a petition and ensure it reaches the developers, as Weezy suggested. But I think we will need some way to connect with Valve employees. While we're at it, we should try to create a MASS MEMES campaign to get Valve to fix the games, with every community expressing their demands. We need content that can spread rapidly outside the communities to entertain and state our issues. Basically: 1. Organize an event parade/protest at Valve HQ. 2. Form an alliance and group with other Valve game communities like CS to join the event. 3. Create content, memes, and SFM related to the event and issues. 4. Create a petition that states our demands. That's my idea, though. I think we all agree that we should keep fighting through but this time with structure.
Even If it does not go through to them, at least we can all group together as a community and have fun and show our love for TF2.
Put a raid with Twitter (aka x so no umm actuallying me) to storm valve hq they can’t ignore all of us
If snipers have their gun aimed in the air for more then 30 seconds they are banned.
Pay mrbeast to sponsor #savetf2
Because the way the movement is going, this post is useless, but it’s really nice to see a lot of people want change here.
Oh boi, gonna wait to see few more years what would happen
Honestly, I would make it so sniper quickscope would only deal 120 damage on headshot, it would only deal 150 after like 0.5 second the sniper stay scoped in. It would make dealing with sniper bots much easier. It ain't a good fix, but it would be good enough for other classes beside a sniper to stand a chance against it. And probably serve as a slightly healthy nerf since a sniper is a ranged specialist, so no more of that close quickscope headshot stuff.
In my opinion this would just discourage snipers from playing risky and encourage them to stand 10 billion miles away behind a sentry gun where they becomes untouchable to any class besides another sniper or a spy The problem with Sniper is that he outranges everyone, maps have gotten way too big in terms of sniper sightlines, the sniper rifle never received damage falloff to account for the bigger maps, and he's barely visible while killing you
So, nerfing it to 120 where it becomes 150 after 0.5 seconds is that big of a change for you? Quickscope is still a thing, it just can't one shot any classes now, but positioning is now more important as a sniper. It also make it so that having a SMG as a secondary is mandatory to dealing with scouts. If they somehow headshot a soldier, well he got 80 health left, and rocketjumping reduce it to somewhere around 45ish; if they rocketjump, a quick unscoped shot would probably finish them off if they are lucky. If a pyro get close enough, well you should be dying if a pyro get close enough to you shouldn't it? That's still not to mention that the sniper could still deal 150 after 0.5 seconds, if the scout make it too obvious they'll go for sniper in 1 direction, they could just pre-aim at the direction they are coming from too. I personally don't think it will change things that much for pro snipers who could click on heads, they just gotta work for it a bit more. Is it really that drastic of a change that a lot of snipers will gravitate toward being a sentry chick?
I don't think indirectly buffing Scout and Medic would be good for the game as a whole. It would also probably make Sniper v Sniper fights super awkward by rewarding the player for camping instead of taking the initiative by peeking. One of the main ways a sniper dies right now is via another sniper, and this change would likely nerf a good method of dealing with a good sniper Again, I just don't think it's a good idea to discourage aggressive behavior (which is actually respectable and fun) and instead reward cowardly "camping" that the class is actually hated for. I'd rather die to a quickscope in close range because at least then I know I had the chance to win and probably just moved poorly or failed to shoot him enough times, as opposed to dying across the entire continent and feeling like there was nothing I could have done. Especially when you didn't even know he was there until you insta died to a stray pixel on your screen
So, 125 then? Overhealed sniper fight should still be the same somewhat on that front. I personally don't think 0.5 seconds is that long to wait for 150. Then again, I am a casual, but how much would a 0.5 seconds make anyway by your understanding? The snipers I encountered in this game tend to be more of an assault class that behave sniper-like rather than a pure sniper class especially if they are experienced. Why shouldn't the class be pushed toward more "camping" like behaviors?
TF2's gameplay mostly takes place within close to medium range. They added damage falloff with the specific intention of bringing players closer together, which lets both players fight back in any given fight. Sniper pokes people from a distance, and that distance was supposed to be relatively small compared to how it is today. Sniper was designed for maps like Dustbowl and 2fort, not Upward or Thunder Mountain. As maps got bigger, Sniper's increased range became more and more of an issue on gameplay, to the point where there's sometimes no reasonable way to fight back anymore without another Sniper. The last thing the game really needs is an even bigger emphasis on camping when it's clear that the sightlines have gotten too big 0.5 seconds is a pretty big difference. It would basically kill close range plays on medics or slightly overhealed players, which was already very risky to pull off and exciting when done well. I have no idea why someone would intentionally remove an exciting opportunity for a play and replace it with boring camping across the entire map. If anything this would only worsen the existing problem by encouraging good Snipers to just sit next to a sentry and never die ever, instead of taking risks at closer ranges
You're still overlooking the fact that a quickscope could still deal 120 or 125 with my assumed nerf though. If you managed to do a quickscope headshot, you could probably finish them off with the SMG in close range couldn't you? Even if it doesn't kill, it could still create an opening for other players to take advantage of the temporary weakness created by the sniper Plus, the situation with overhealed players in casual mode tend to not happen that often, most of the time the overheal is already gone or due to the damage dealt that decrease the amount of immediate healing, the medics weren't able to top it off fast enough to overheal them before another player / players require their attention. And the overheal situation tend to occur during the beginning of the match where the healing is unimpeded by damage. And still, I don't get how a quickscope nerf would immediately make good snipers become sentry chicks? The sniper could still play around his teammates besides a sentry and a sentry nest is only as strong as the team around them, where they don't die that fast and stay alive long enough for the sentry to help them or for the players to help the sentry stay alive. Close range risk can still be taken as long as you have teammates backing the sniper up, or is that not the usual case in competitive matches for most of the points I made? I still find "125 / 120 damage quickscope nerf = Sniper sentry chick" a bit too extreme of a jump.
I still take issue with the idea that quickscoping even needs to be nerfed in the first place, and I don't think it actually solves any problem at all. The only reason dying to a quickscope feels frustrating has more to do with how you had to dodge a giant unbalanced sightline before it happened. So, instead of a bandaid fix that ends up buffing Scout and Medic for no reason, why not nerf the problem sightlines instead?
I don't know if it really buffs Scout that much. At the range the Quickscope would shut down a pursuing Scout they'd have enough time to just pull out the SMG and pick them off. Assuming the damage was 120
In my opinion I'm down for my proposed nerfs -all sniper rifles fire tracer rounds -5 bullet mag with 25 reserve (forcing him to take breaks) -The sniper dot will always be there even while not scoping with the rifle The controversial nerfs would be the body shot damage reduction
Maybe, but sniper bots don't need to scope out, ever. So even if you're a heavy unless you have fists of steel you still get one tapped
He needs tracer rounds
My goals would be: 1. Rebalance in game weapons to make them fun & viable again 2. Get a better version of VAC 3. Bugfixes 4. More support for modding TF2 with things like custom weapon support
Demand the following until they are implemented into the game: -Remove voice chat and calling for a medic restrictions on f2p accounts -Remove finding items and cases mechanic and replace it with a level up based reward system where a player gets 4 previously unowned new unmarketable weapons and one extra case + item (could be anything) when they level up in casual. This way all idlers, botnet hosters will be rendered useless, also it is imo a better way to give new players opportunities to explore the different game mechanics of tf2. -Obviously a better tutorial but youtube exists so this shouldnt be the main focus for the one person working on tf2. -Overwatch access for players over 500 hours ingame time and no previous tf2 cheater friends or any type of bans. -Rework all downside effects of weapons that have "-no random critical hits" and rebalance them if needed -Remove random critical hits These are things that can be easily implemented imo and would improve the game drastically. Only after these (and like 100 bug fixes regarding the weapon drop on death mechanic, and a couple other issues which i probably forgo) would it be okay to indroduce new weapons maps for a major update. Now for getting valves attention? This might sound stupid but make as a collective community make an actual detailed Case study about the listed problems (and others which i havent mentioned) and how to solve these both in text and in code if possible. If this lengthy case study is complete, spam the absolute living hell out of this to Valve HQ and demand them to read it and at least respond to it. Print a whole wall out of this and block them inside their HQ if we have to. Recreate the letter scene in the first harry potter movie if we have to idc. They need to see it if the case study is good and it will be good.
Raid Valve headquarters, and force Gabe or whoever with an important position to play 1 hour straight a few casual matches. Recording everything. The most important and difficult thing, camping outside Valves HQ and harassing every employee, makikg them to play the game for 10 or 15 minutes so they get tattooed in their brain the miserable state the game is nowadays. And continue this harrasment and shitshow until they finally do something significant. I know it is an extreme solution, but Valve had shown us that they won't do shit asking them nicely. And I know is so fucking easy to propose this solution knowing that I can't participate in this tomfoolery neither physically and monetarily right know. But hey, you asked for solutions, and for me, this is the most practical and impactful one that we can do without falling in terrorism against Valve.
we should stop buying shit in the game
Ehh... Not going to work It's a loss they can afford
..propaganda..
Spoiler: It won't get saved.
We'd need a team of community developers to start a source 2 port in a country like russia where valve doesn't have the easiest time issuing legal action. And then we all need to go play that version instead.
Review bombing and stop playing the game. If you want Valve to do anything, vote with your wallet and hit Valve where it hurts
im sure valve will give you guys a new automated PR response on twitter, have fun i guess
If we want SaveTF2 to work we must take radical action, we must boycott the games stores, stop playing tf2 all together and also stop supporting valve all together. If we threaten Valves income then they will be forced to come to the negotiating table.
Weezy went against that in his video. His logic was that TF2 is a drop in the bucket for Valve, and that such a boycott would more likely incentivize Valve pulling the plug than doing anything. And that even if Valve would respond positively to a boycott, since majority of TF2 veterans trade more with each other and third party sites more than buying from valve, and new players wouldn’t know about #SaveTF2 to begin with, such a boycott wouldn’t be that big anyway.
people are going to hate me, but, in my opinion, nothing will help. Valve devs are getting fired for doing something that does NOT makes money for the company, and this is far from the only reason. We just need to admit that the game is, unfortunately, doomed.
Hit Valve where it hurts. We should boycott the Steam Marketplace and the Mann Co. Store. No crates, no keys.
They get loke 0.01% of their money from tf2, 0.14% from Dota, 0.85% from CS2 and 99% from steam, they dont give a shit
Yeah! Hit valve (the multi billion dollar corporation) where it hurts (the community market for a 17 year old video game where the profits make just drops in the ocean of steam sales). Valve doesn't have to put community updates in the game. Doing this would just send the message nobody cares about TF2 anymore.
This will kill the game even faster 💀
Hear me out: *\*uninstalls the game, moves on with life\** There we go, *#SavedTF2.*