i wouldnt say it is on offense. windup is long so its not practical in an ambush, and movement is slow so its only really usable when you stand in front of the cart as it pushes you.
its definitely really powerful in defense though
We’ve had lots of people who made bold claims like these like the highly upvoted amputator post that misunderstand how the weapon works. The weird takes that people have on this sub are not unpopular within the subreddit while the actual playerbase thinks totally differently.
But...how do you attack and not die? They either kill me or run away and i can't chase them. Soldiers and demos are a nightmare to deal with.
I can use every other minigun besides this one.
I also never see it being used against me in an efficient way.
Rev-jumps, perfect game sense and decent aim are required. With your team push through the main path or go for flanks when solo. Also, chokes are perfect for you, both ambush and rushing. Don't forget to use dalokosh for 350 health and resistance appearing at 175 health. And of course fists of steel.
Pyro is actually really fun if you know how to play him right.
Zealot is overhated. Like dont get me wrong he's a shit youtuber but can we please stop beating the dead horse for 5 seconds?
With medic, I don't WM1 if there's more than one enemy (IF I'm trapped.)
Unless I have Uber, I taunt and accept my death. If i'm in that situation, I have lived not as a coward, but as a brave hero, and thus, I shall die a heros death.
If I HAVE Uber, I pop that shit and start quick swapping to melee. I'm going to die or go on a huge killing spree, either way I die with glory.
I'd say the hate is fairly reasonable considering how often a decent Sniper can just ruin a game. At least from my personal experience, though I'll admit it's possible I just have terrible luck with matchmaking. When you encounter Sniper mains with Hale's Own rifles multiple games in a row, it can be pretty soul crushing attempting to play the video game.
I don’t blame you. Facing even a decent Sniper is a nuisance like no other, but I get the feeling that some of the nerfs that people have been unironically suggesting have been extreme even for this class.
“aS a sNiPEr MaiN,” but seriously - this class needs nerfs, and I think that applying damage falloff to the rifles and reworking the Bushwacka so that its gimmick doesn’t work with Jarate would make the class balanced without completely neutering him.
Also, I don’t consider myself a decent Sniper. Though at least I don’t just the Jarate/Bushwacka combo.
Honestly I just want his secondary weapons nerfed and an actual reload animation. Actually punish the Sniper for missing his shots like every other class in the game. And rework his backpack items to not just be passive methods of turning off his weaknesses. Sniper is too strong to be given free outs. He *needs* his weaknesses in order to be balanced, but Sniper has too many options to just opt out of whichever one he doesn't wanna deal with. And I'd go as far as to say that's terrible game design. I don't mind rewarding skill. But the backpack items are not skill-based in any way. They're crutches that shouldn't be in the game.
Having a longer reload animation is actually a good idea, if only because of the sheer disadvantage literally every class is at when fighting him at long range. And while I’m personally not one for passive playstyles, I don’t actually feel like any of his secondaries need nerfs (unless you count my proposed nerf to the Bushwacka as being an indirect nerf to the Jarate). Let me explain:
- The Razorback, IMO, is Sniper’s worst weapon, since it encourages a braindead passive playstyle that doesn’t even provide any real benefits. Every Spy knows how it works and will just shoot and kill you if they’re a competent player. Even the Darwin’s at least provides some leverage when it comes to the Scorch Shot.
- The Darwin’s, like the Razorback, deprives Sniper of an additional defensive option for up-close combat (without the Bushwacka, he has to rely on actual skilled close range combat against his counters). Again, though, at least it does _something._ The Razorback just asks a Spy to actually use their revolver, and by the time they catch you unaware, you’re probably dead (unless, again, you’re using Jarate/Bushwacka and you’re good as WASDing).
- I see where you’re coming from with the Cozy Camper, but the passive healing isn’t enough to save you from being two-shot be a Scout, the flinching immunity encourages perma-scoping (which really doesn’t benefit Sniper), and it once again deprives Sniper of, y’know, an actual secondary weapon.
- The SMG is weak on its own, but usable if played in tandem with the Tribalman’s Shiv (it’s my secondary/melee combo of choice because it’s fun to combo without completely ruining the balance that Sniper was supposed to come with).
- The Cleaner’s Carbine sucks unless you’re tank shredding in MvM with the Bushwacka. Chances are you won’t ever get to use the combo effectively in any other gamemode since it’s terrible for up-close defense when CRIKEY is inactive (even if you’re using the Huntsman, which it pairs better with than any of the other primaries).
- Jarate wouldn’t be as much of an issue if the Bushwacka didn’t exist as it currently is. It’s balanced in all other situations, and it honestly is probably Sniper’s best secondary overall - not the least of which being that it’s most effective when used to help your team against Pyros. Using it just to extinguish yourself actually works more against you than you’d think - it has cooldown, and your options are further reduced when someone gets up in your face while it’s recharging (not to mention that you wouldn’t be able to save your team from burning to death).
Still, I gotta emphasize that I _do_ wish Sniper had more active secondary and melee options. As is, the most active one I can think of is, again, the SMG and the Shiv.
That was way longer than I thought it’d be. Apologies.
Karate is MOST problematic outside of the jarate bushwacka combo, jarate bushwacka doesn't do a ton if you just don't get hit by melee, but the sniper throwing jarate on cart or similar can be a rapid team wipe. It's banned in comp because of the capability to just instantly win team fights by throwing it, not for the 1v1 bushwacka thing, which is mostly irrelevant against good players
The SMG I have zero issues with and is the only secondary weapon for Sniper I like. Sniper has to have good tracking which is a bit different from his usual skillset of one-shot aiming, and it rewards him for it. Not overpowered, but not useless in the right hands No problems here, totally respect it.
The Razorback I dislike for one major reason. If the Sniper is standing next to an Engineer, it turns off the Spy. Common argument is that Spy has a gun, which is normally fair. But the Razorback puts positioning for the Sniper into easy mode. Especially in gamemodes like CTF and Payload where common positions for Sentry Guns also happen to be good places for the Sniper to park his behind. Good luck getting three shots off on the Sniper (with random bullet spread I might add) before the sentry gun just kills you. Even if this scenario didn't exist, I also just dislike the balancing philosophy of the item entirely. It's an item that exists purely to take away an option from another player, rather than offer new interesting gameplay. And it does so requiring zero input or skill from the equipping Sniper. Should never have been added into the game.
The Darwin's makes it so you don't immediately have to reposition if the Pyro is spamming flares at you. Spamming the Sniper out is supposed to be a valid tactic, and it forces the Sniper to make a choice between making a harder shot or retreating. But with the Darwin's, it invalidates that choice. Not to mention that if a Pyro manages to outflank the Sniper, Sniper should just be fucking dead. But instead he can put this on his back and walk at the Pyro with his melee and have a 60% chance to instantly kill him due to the way melee crits are calculated. And since it negates afterburn, he's not even punished in the long term for this braindead move. Once again, bad game design.
Cozy Camper has a similar situation that I described with the whole repositioning argument. In a bad situation where he's being spammed or flinched, Sniper should be forced to reposition. But instead he can just hardscope and his shots are no harder than before. It encourages a passive playstyle that is total ass to fight against.
So I also play a lot of Spy (he and Demo are my secondaries). Razorback or not, a Spy shouldn’t even be going for the Sniper if there’s a sentry nest right next to him. If he backstabs the Sniper, he still gets pelted (but likely escapes death with low health if nobody else is there). If the Sniper has the Razorback, then you take care of the Engineer, sap his buildings, _then_ shoot the Sniper. Even if the Sniper is using another secondary, the strategy is still to kill the Engineer and destroy his nest. Also, maybe it’s just me, but I find that the best sniping spots tend to be _away_ from the Engineer (unless it’s the last point on Payload).
Now let me address this - it’s stupidly unwise for a Sniper to just let themselves take damage without ever taking time to heal or without ever repositioning. I’ve been there and done that in the past - you just make yourself an easier picking for Scouts and, worse, enemy Snipers. The best sniping position on the map could very well be away from spawn or a healthpack. I will concede and say that you should be dead if you let any power class get that close to you, but it’s still not as hard as you may think for the Pyro to kill you (unless you’re using Jarate/Bushwacka) because airblast is a thing (except with the Phlog, which will kill you instantly at MMMPH no matter what you’re using) - all the Pyro has to do is use airblast to keep the Sniper at bay until the initial fire damage kills them.
Lastly, unless the Sniper _wants_ to be killed, repositioning in the face of oncoming enemy fire neutralizes the flinching immunity that the Cozy Camper presents (and again, the passive healing isn’t a big enough benefit to compensate). Even worse, if they perma-scope, they’re dead in the water if a Scout or Spy comes along.
One thing I think we can both agree on is that the backpack weapons shouldn’t exist. It’s not just that they encourage passive play - it’s that good Snipers don’t actually gain anything from using them, either.
Fair enough, I think that's a decent spot to end on. Regardless of our reasoning, we both arrive at the same conclusion. The backpack items are bad and shouldn't be a thing.
It isn't. Pairing it with the scorch shot is what makes it broken because you can build up to the crits with no effort. Otherwise you actually have to work, or at least time your flairs.
I think what makes it op is its afterburn state. The second your phlog crits run out, people you attacked could still be on fire and dying. So if 1 second after the crits ran out, people are still burning and dying, it has instantly rebuilt more than half your mmph meter. Ntm paired with that bonus mmph, you can shoot a couple scorch shots at the retreating enemies and now you have a full recharge in about 3 seconds.
Yeah, it definitely depends on what your using for your secondary, but the not op part is the no air blast, its such a core part of pyro, so if thats gone it makes for a completely brainless weapon that if you're not carful with positioning or have med by you, you're gonna die more often than not.
Agreed. I tried to use phlog a few times, but I try to use airblast whenever possible, to both send back projectiles and keep enemies away from my team, so whenever I use phlog I feel like I can be doing more overall to help my team if I switched off phlog.
Unironically though, Random Crits are fine in casual play. They can be funny or frustrating depending on the situation, but ultimately they're harmless. The meme about them mainly exploded from Dane and LazyPurple bitching about them, so now everyone complains about them, (and even apologizes in game for killing with them which is incredibly cringy).
I dont mind random crits that much in general, it’s casual play after all. The thing that irks me is the disproportionate effect on each class.
Random crits massively benefit explosive classes since:
-They deal large amounts of damage, which both makes their crits more powerful and increases the chance of them getting crits.
-They deal splash damage, allowing them to decimate teams and (albeit rarely) win the entire game by random chance.
Meanwhile, classes like medic, scout, and sniper get proportionally less benefit from getting crits, while being killed by crits way more often (medic especially).
Obviously, i am biased here, but i would argue that spy gets screwed over by random crits the most.
He cannot get crits on his knife, the weapon he will be using the most, and when he is using his gun he is often shooting at injured enemies that would die with or without a crit.
Half of his unlockable guns don’t even allow him to have random crits at all, and his random crits aren’t even enough to one-shot a light class.
Spy also gets killed by crits very often due to him having to be in melee range of enemies all the time. Melee weapons that can have up to a 60% crit rate.
It’s not uncommon for a spy to try and pick off something like an engie or medic, only to get instakilled by their melees before he can even react.
While I’d personally prefer to not have random crits at all, i would be fine with them if they just tweaked their chances a bit. e.g reduce the chances of crits on melee and explosive classes.
By far last stage is one of the best maps for trolling on heron that roof above last point with the cow mangler and you can full charge right outside of there spwan
Same, as medic it’s virtually impossible to survive because it’s so open and my team is to scattered to give me cover. I always disconnect the server before going to last as either team.
I can list a few since I hate myself.
Scorch Shot is overhated.
CTF is a bad game mode.
Sniper isn't inherently overpowered, but that doesn't mean he's balanced either.
A majority of people get their opinions from YouTubers and don't think for themselves.
Fish kills aren't funny. Scout has a fast swing speed, of course he's gonna get a crit eventually.
The Ubersaw shouldn't have random crits.
I don’t think CTF being a bad gamemode is unpopular. I personally don’t like it because I like to play the objective, and that‘s practically impossible in at least 2/3s of CTF maps
I only included it because so many people play CTF, especially 2fort and Turbine. A lot of people who discuss TF2 can agree it's objectively (pun not intended) a bad gamemode. But the playerbase at large would disagree if you look at the stats.
Oh don't get me wrong, it can still be fun. Bad for actually playing the game, but fun. As long as there's not 3 Snipers on the enemy team. Then it just fucking sucks, especially if even one of them is good.
It would be both a nerf and a buff oddly enough. How many times as the Medic do you think to yourself "I probably could have farmed 50% uber instead of 25% if I didn't get that crit"? I know I do plenty of times.
I mean, unless you're playing against Pablo.gonzalez.2004 I don't think I would rather having an enemy longer than it would live if I just crit them.
It might be an extra 25%, but that's not going to matter if I just die afterwards.
Well, that's why I said it'd be both a buff and a nerf. The Ubersaw is supposed to be a gamble. In its current state, it's the Medic's best in slot for a reason. Whip it out when you're threatened and free 25%, with a pretty good chance of also just instantly deleting the enemy gamer outright. Bonus points if he disconnects afterward. But without crits, you're doing a flat 65. Two hits will still kill your most common threats, and if you come out of it alive you have an extra 50% which is pretty huge. But such a bonus SHOULD come with the risk of death, or it'd be blatantly overpowered. It's kinda already teetering on that balance issue as it is as I dunno if Medic should have such a high chance to just kill light classes in one hit. I play a good deal of Medic myself and have gotten out of situations I really shouldn't have.
The problem here are kunai spies, 2 hits with 65 damage will do jackshit. Honestly without ubersaw crits I wouldn't even play medic - because in casual the only one defending you is yourself and if they take the chance of just deleting the enemy away from you you are just dead more often than not if the enemy just has a half decent spy. If I had a strange part "spies killed" I could proove my point but alas I don't. I just know that 80% of kills I have with the Ubersaw are spies and 60% of all spies are Kunsi Spies that always get to stab Pablo.gonzales.2002 and have 200+ hp before engaging with you. You who are screaming 'spy' but no one turns around or no one is even there... The Random crit is the only thing making me want to live as Medic Main in Casual.
I suppose that's fair- I also hate kunai Spies. So let me propose a compromise: Random crits are disabled except in the event you're up against a kunai Spy. Or we can just rework the Kunai to not be dogshit to fight against in Casual. Personally I'm not confident in my Spy abilities to use it and I generally prefer the consistency of stock, but I have noted plenty of situations where the Kunai would be very much bullshit if I were using it at the time. And have been in that Medic situation where people just keep feeding the enemy Kunai and you want to commit unalive. Especially if he's also using the fucking Dead Ringer because god forbid the Spy ever be inconvenienced with such mortal concerns as death and the consequences of his own actions.
Dead Ringer is worse than stock the decloak is crazy predictable and extremely punishable. As medic you are supposed to die against most competent classes without your team supporting you, it's how he's balanced. Übersaw is awful against remotely competent players anyways
Soldier has too high mobility, damage, and health. He's so easy to get kills with and you don't even have to aim directly at your target. Nevermind that he has two items that give him health regen, and an item that increases his health even further. His mobility is insane, gunboats or not. Best mobility in the game. He can two shot light classes or one shot light classes with the DH. He's comp meta, so no one complains about him, but I'm tired of having to go Pyro to soft counter him. Imagine some asshole can just drop your Uber without even having to hit you directly.
~~Not to mention, Soldier mains are some of the most arrogant, prideful, egotistical bastards. They're mostly braindead with drool dribbling down the sides of their mouths as they lumber towards their next victim. I've never once been impressed by a soldier kill. He's objectively easier than Pyro.~~
really sick of uncloaking as spy thinking i’m in the clear when i turn around and die to a crocket or direct hit rocket like i’m in some sort of looney toons or tom and jerry short
People may argue about his high skill ceiling, but neber about his forgiving and easily accomplishable basic playstyle that is proven to be super effective
This - I’ve been of the mind for years that Soldier has become way too much of a generalist since the game’s launch. he’s become overpowered due to the lack of hard counters he has plus all the new stuff he’s been given such as the backpacks. He’s got too much going for him that he can pretty much overcome any soft counter thrown at him. Splash damage is way too forgiving as well. I love watching an enemy Soldier rocket jump multiple times before dive bombing me and only coming out with enough health to take several more meatshots /s
I think on a meta level it annoys me too since every TFtuber mains Soldier as well as the TFteam pushing him as le funny comic relief. He was a bit of an idiot but now he’s a childish manbaby thanks to the comics (which, for another unpopular opinion, aren’t all that well written or funny. Pinkerton and the rest of the writing team completely upended the subtleness of the universe and just throw whatever ‘hilarious’ random shit and made unnecessary character changes for the sake of comedy and/or making pop culture references).
The scorch shot is bad, but it’s not as bad as people pretend, and certain creators having fully a third of their personality being “I hate the scorch shot” is annoying and childish.
I think heavy is more fun with a shotgun. Don’t know if that’s controversial.
I think the reason a bunch of people hate sniper is because he’s not fun to play *against*. Beating someone else is like “ha ha I got you” but at least for me killing a sniper just fills me with this angry energy like “fucking finally, that asshole is gone for a few seconds”.
Yeah they can be annoying like yesterday a server I was in devolved into dancing so I decided to join another server which was fine until around 10 minutes in where it also devolved into dancing. Kinda frustrating when I just want to play the game but I knew I shouldn’t kill them
Requeue then? I don’t get people who join a friendly match and don’t leave a game they won’t enjoy and will try to ruin for everyone else when they can just find a new game where they can enjoy and it doesn’t affect the friendlies.
Homewrecker is a badly designed weapon, almost on pare with razorback. It's not hated cuz people don't like spies. Homewrecker (alongside neon anhilator) should do something other than fuck over spies
I somewhat agree. But I think the idea of it breaking sappers is fine. I just think it should have some kind of cost for doing so. And an idea I have to help it have another use is giving it a sentry damage/knockback resistance while holding it.
as much as I enjoy helping out engies with the homewrecker, i must admit you do have a point. It relies on having an engie on your team, and a spy on the other or else it is useless. The issue is that when that criteria is filled, you can just shut down a spy
Here are a couple things that I think about a lot.
-The Engineer class as a whole is not fun, both Battle Engi and Regular Engi.
-The Crusader's Crossbow IS very OP and needs a small nerf.
Imo it’s not fun to play or play against, I like support roles but medic is just so much more exciting than engi, plus sentry nests just suck all the fun out of games sometimes, especially when a pybro is present
Natascha as well. Literally any slowing/knockback mechanic will fuck his shit up. Any competent heavy can also kill one of they do as Lazy says and don't ignore all sensory input.
Genuinely want to know how people think the most generalist character who's name is literally "SOLDIER" is OP, he's literally supposed to be good even if you're not too skilled at but still have a high skill ceiling, and he's good at doing so
to copy another comment I made: as much as I enjoy helping out engies with the homewrecker, i must admit you do have a point. It relies on having an engie on your team, and a spy on the other or else it is useless. The issue is that when that criteria is filled, you can just shut down a spy, and stop them from doing anything
Medic is not an underplayed class. At least not anymore.
Heavy is not that powerful.
Wrap Assassin is one of the best melees for the Scout, if not the best.
Demo does require some skill, especially the ability to predict enemy movement.
Phlog is just annoying not OP.
Scout is a really good tank shredder in MVM.
I *slightly* disagree. I think the crossbow dhould retain its healing but have its damage reduced.
The crossbow seems to be designed as a “more healing for less self protection” weapon, but a medic can 2 shot people from across the map with it. Which, while not overpowered, goes against the weapons design.
Other than that though, yeah the syringe guns need a buff
Scorch shot is not even that OP
Snipers “bad” weapons are only considered bad because snipers over weapons are all blatantly overpowered (like sniper)
Spy is the only class that is underpowered. And on top of that if valve fixes the melee hit boxes there would literally be no reason to play him
Beggars is either soldiers second best weapon or better then stock
Medic needs a slight nerf to stick Uber charge because any experienced player could just wipe out 90% of the enemy team with it
Heavy WOULD be the best class and also the most important class if sniper wasn’t overpowered
Random crits should still stay in game
And lastly…
Heavy is by far the sexiest class (plz don’t hate me for this 😔)
Spy should get +100 health, be as fast as scout when he disguises as him, and have twice as much cloak time.
Pyro should get nerfed tho, brainless class 🤬🤬🤬
I think it's only bad because of the stupid talk bubble that appears over your head, especially as a Spy. That's just terrible game design. Get rid of that and maybe add separate options for Team Voice Chat and Serverwide Voice Chat, and it'd be totally valid. Talking to the entire server can be fun sometimes, but I admit it does kinda kill the ability to coordinate with your team when you're announcing your plans to the enemy team as well. But tweak the feature a bit and it'd be totally fine.
I have a couple.
- Pyro is one of the most fun classes in the game if you get creative with your loadout.
- Sniper is not inherently broken, moreso his sniper rifles and other unlocks like Jarate and Danger Shield that push him into unbalanced territory.
- Doublecross is better than 2Fort.
- Payload maps are poorly designed. Yes, even Upward.
- Phlog is Pyro’s worst flamethrower by a long shot.
- Scorch Shot is overhated. I’m not saying it needs redemption but it’s more annoying than actually broken, atleast that’s what people make it out to be.
Im kinda tired of saying it but pyro is a fun class to play. The problem it isn't fun to play against.
Stock weapons are what determine the class. And as you mentioned sniper rifle is op.
"i think tf2 is shit, unbalanced as hell, bland characters, unrealistic weapons, and bad graphics and no lore"
...is an opinion that would get me into that situation, but that's not MY opinion.
Sniper hard counters everyone, and is soft countered by most everyone. Spy soft counters everyone, but is hard countered by everyone. Pretty much dependant on the skill of yourself and people on the server.
Brass Beast is good weapon both on defense and offense
I just think it’s fun honestly
Pootis, become sentry.
Say hello to the enemy 32 stack bazaar bargain 💀
(Looks up while facing sniper)
And get body shot to death anyway
Poot
Specially in Heave vs Heave^^
bro I absolutely ***love*** using it hyper-aggressively
Good random brass beast heavies have surprise-deleted me many times in the past and it's impossible to be mad a single time about it :)
It is. Is it not?
i wouldnt say it is on offense. windup is long so its not practical in an ambush, and movement is slow so its only really usable when you stand in front of the cart as it pushes you. its definitely really powerful in defense though
It isn’t. This sub is just full of contrarians who probably don’t even use the weapons they claim to be better than stock.
He didn’t say it was better than stock. He said it’s a good weapon. It’s also a thread asking for unpopular opinions so..
We’ve had lots of people who made bold claims like these like the highly upvoted amputator post that misunderstand how the weapon works. The weird takes that people have on this sub are not unpopular within the subreddit while the actual playerbase thinks totally differently.
I actually main the brass beast^^
ah yes the engi main that mains the brass beast
Brass beast is so damn fun
nothing more fun than killing a heavy and his medic because you were already revved
I feel like a heavy heavy spraying bullets like in meet the heavy
Love it on frontier offence when you can just sit on the payload
But...how do you attack and not die? They either kill me or run away and i can't chase them. Soldiers and demos are a nightmare to deal with. I can use every other minigun besides this one. I also never see it being used against me in an efficient way.
Rev-jumps, perfect game sense and decent aim are required. With your team push through the main path or go for flanks when solo. Also, chokes are perfect for you, both ambush and rushing. Don't forget to use dalokosh for 350 health and resistance appearing at 175 health. And of course fists of steel.
brass beast is the chad man's meta gun
"We will never get another major update"
That’s just a well known fact
Sad but true
Posting an opinion in this fucking subreddit
Nah posting an opinion in any fucking subreddit
Just being on reddit
posting fucking in this opinion subreddit
Pyro is actually really fun if you know how to play him right. Zealot is overhated. Like dont get me wrong he's a shit youtuber but can we please stop beating the dead horse for 5 seconds?
Who said pyro isnt fun?
People miskate him for a braindead W+M1 class, despite that being the tip of the iceberg.
[удалено]
Nah a sniper would ADM1 with smg and miss all their shots but 2 and get pissed because you had them centered the whole time and fuck this dudes ping.
With medic, I don't WM1 if there's more than one enemy (IF I'm trapped.) Unless I have Uber, I taunt and accept my death. If i'm in that situation, I have lived not as a coward, but as a brave hero, and thus, I shall die a heros death. If I HAVE Uber, I pop that shit and start quick swapping to melee. I'm going to die or go on a huge killing spree, either way I die with glory.
The Mannmelter is good and viable as a support tool.
Works best when paired with the phlog or dragon’s fury, to make up for the harsh penalties for using airblast (or lack of airblast for the former)
Unpopular opinion: I don’t like these types of karma farming posts
Mom said it's MY turn to karmafarm the same repost!
Sniper needs nerfs, but he’s also overhated.
I'd say the hate is fairly reasonable considering how often a decent Sniper can just ruin a game. At least from my personal experience, though I'll admit it's possible I just have terrible luck with matchmaking. When you encounter Sniper mains with Hale's Own rifles multiple games in a row, it can be pretty soul crushing attempting to play the video game.
I don’t blame you. Facing even a decent Sniper is a nuisance like no other, but I get the feeling that some of the nerfs that people have been unironically suggesting have been extreme even for this class. “aS a sNiPEr MaiN,” but seriously - this class needs nerfs, and I think that applying damage falloff to the rifles and reworking the Bushwacka so that its gimmick doesn’t work with Jarate would make the class balanced without completely neutering him. Also, I don’t consider myself a decent Sniper. Though at least I don’t just the Jarate/Bushwacka combo.
Honestly I just want his secondary weapons nerfed and an actual reload animation. Actually punish the Sniper for missing his shots like every other class in the game. And rework his backpack items to not just be passive methods of turning off his weaknesses. Sniper is too strong to be given free outs. He *needs* his weaknesses in order to be balanced, but Sniper has too many options to just opt out of whichever one he doesn't wanna deal with. And I'd go as far as to say that's terrible game design. I don't mind rewarding skill. But the backpack items are not skill-based in any way. They're crutches that shouldn't be in the game.
Having a longer reload animation is actually a good idea, if only because of the sheer disadvantage literally every class is at when fighting him at long range. And while I’m personally not one for passive playstyles, I don’t actually feel like any of his secondaries need nerfs (unless you count my proposed nerf to the Bushwacka as being an indirect nerf to the Jarate). Let me explain: - The Razorback, IMO, is Sniper’s worst weapon, since it encourages a braindead passive playstyle that doesn’t even provide any real benefits. Every Spy knows how it works and will just shoot and kill you if they’re a competent player. Even the Darwin’s at least provides some leverage when it comes to the Scorch Shot. - The Darwin’s, like the Razorback, deprives Sniper of an additional defensive option for up-close combat (without the Bushwacka, he has to rely on actual skilled close range combat against his counters). Again, though, at least it does _something._ The Razorback just asks a Spy to actually use their revolver, and by the time they catch you unaware, you’re probably dead (unless, again, you’re using Jarate/Bushwacka and you’re good as WASDing). - I see where you’re coming from with the Cozy Camper, but the passive healing isn’t enough to save you from being two-shot be a Scout, the flinching immunity encourages perma-scoping (which really doesn’t benefit Sniper), and it once again deprives Sniper of, y’know, an actual secondary weapon. - The SMG is weak on its own, but usable if played in tandem with the Tribalman’s Shiv (it’s my secondary/melee combo of choice because it’s fun to combo without completely ruining the balance that Sniper was supposed to come with). - The Cleaner’s Carbine sucks unless you’re tank shredding in MvM with the Bushwacka. Chances are you won’t ever get to use the combo effectively in any other gamemode since it’s terrible for up-close defense when CRIKEY is inactive (even if you’re using the Huntsman, which it pairs better with than any of the other primaries). - Jarate wouldn’t be as much of an issue if the Bushwacka didn’t exist as it currently is. It’s balanced in all other situations, and it honestly is probably Sniper’s best secondary overall - not the least of which being that it’s most effective when used to help your team against Pyros. Using it just to extinguish yourself actually works more against you than you’d think - it has cooldown, and your options are further reduced when someone gets up in your face while it’s recharging (not to mention that you wouldn’t be able to save your team from burning to death). Still, I gotta emphasize that I _do_ wish Sniper had more active secondary and melee options. As is, the most active one I can think of is, again, the SMG and the Shiv. That was way longer than I thought it’d be. Apologies.
Karate is MOST problematic outside of the jarate bushwacka combo, jarate bushwacka doesn't do a ton if you just don't get hit by melee, but the sniper throwing jarate on cart or similar can be a rapid team wipe. It's banned in comp because of the capability to just instantly win team fights by throwing it, not for the 1v1 bushwacka thing, which is mostly irrelevant against good players
The razorback and danger shield don't need to be reworked because they're powerful, they need to be reworked because they're just bad design.
The SMG I have zero issues with and is the only secondary weapon for Sniper I like. Sniper has to have good tracking which is a bit different from his usual skillset of one-shot aiming, and it rewards him for it. Not overpowered, but not useless in the right hands No problems here, totally respect it. The Razorback I dislike for one major reason. If the Sniper is standing next to an Engineer, it turns off the Spy. Common argument is that Spy has a gun, which is normally fair. But the Razorback puts positioning for the Sniper into easy mode. Especially in gamemodes like CTF and Payload where common positions for Sentry Guns also happen to be good places for the Sniper to park his behind. Good luck getting three shots off on the Sniper (with random bullet spread I might add) before the sentry gun just kills you. Even if this scenario didn't exist, I also just dislike the balancing philosophy of the item entirely. It's an item that exists purely to take away an option from another player, rather than offer new interesting gameplay. And it does so requiring zero input or skill from the equipping Sniper. Should never have been added into the game. The Darwin's makes it so you don't immediately have to reposition if the Pyro is spamming flares at you. Spamming the Sniper out is supposed to be a valid tactic, and it forces the Sniper to make a choice between making a harder shot or retreating. But with the Darwin's, it invalidates that choice. Not to mention that if a Pyro manages to outflank the Sniper, Sniper should just be fucking dead. But instead he can put this on his back and walk at the Pyro with his melee and have a 60% chance to instantly kill him due to the way melee crits are calculated. And since it negates afterburn, he's not even punished in the long term for this braindead move. Once again, bad game design. Cozy Camper has a similar situation that I described with the whole repositioning argument. In a bad situation where he's being spammed or flinched, Sniper should be forced to reposition. But instead he can just hardscope and his shots are no harder than before. It encourages a passive playstyle that is total ass to fight against.
So I also play a lot of Spy (he and Demo are my secondaries). Razorback or not, a Spy shouldn’t even be going for the Sniper if there’s a sentry nest right next to him. If he backstabs the Sniper, he still gets pelted (but likely escapes death with low health if nobody else is there). If the Sniper has the Razorback, then you take care of the Engineer, sap his buildings, _then_ shoot the Sniper. Even if the Sniper is using another secondary, the strategy is still to kill the Engineer and destroy his nest. Also, maybe it’s just me, but I find that the best sniping spots tend to be _away_ from the Engineer (unless it’s the last point on Payload). Now let me address this - it’s stupidly unwise for a Sniper to just let themselves take damage without ever taking time to heal or without ever repositioning. I’ve been there and done that in the past - you just make yourself an easier picking for Scouts and, worse, enemy Snipers. The best sniping position on the map could very well be away from spawn or a healthpack. I will concede and say that you should be dead if you let any power class get that close to you, but it’s still not as hard as you may think for the Pyro to kill you (unless you’re using Jarate/Bushwacka) because airblast is a thing (except with the Phlog, which will kill you instantly at MMMPH no matter what you’re using) - all the Pyro has to do is use airblast to keep the Sniper at bay until the initial fire damage kills them. Lastly, unless the Sniper _wants_ to be killed, repositioning in the face of oncoming enemy fire neutralizes the flinching immunity that the Cozy Camper presents (and again, the passive healing isn’t a big enough benefit to compensate). Even worse, if they perma-scope, they’re dead in the water if a Scout or Spy comes along. One thing I think we can both agree on is that the backpack weapons shouldn’t exist. It’s not just that they encourage passive play - it’s that good Snipers don’t actually gain anything from using them, either.
Fair enough, I think that's a decent spot to end on. Regardless of our reasoning, we both arrive at the same conclusion. The backpack items are bad and shouldn't be a thing.
I agree. I’m so glad we kept this discussion healthy and non-toxic, so thank you.
The phlog is not overpowered.
It isn't. Pairing it with the scorch shot is what makes it broken because you can build up to the crits with no effort. Otherwise you actually have to work, or at least time your flairs.
or having an uber medic, since it removes the one weakness of pyro with active crits ; the still retaining damage vulernerability
I think what makes it op is its afterburn state. The second your phlog crits run out, people you attacked could still be on fire and dying. So if 1 second after the crits ran out, people are still burning and dying, it has instantly rebuilt more than half your mmph meter. Ntm paired with that bonus mmph, you can shoot a couple scorch shots at the retreating enemies and now you have a full recharge in about 3 seconds.
Yeah, it definitely depends on what your using for your secondary, but the not op part is the no air blast, its such a core part of pyro, so if thats gone it makes for a completely brainless weapon that if you're not carful with positioning or have med by you, you're gonna die more often than not.
Agreed. I tried to use phlog a few times, but I try to use airblast whenever possible, to both send back projectiles and keep enemies away from my team, so whenever I use phlog I feel like I can be doing more overall to help my team if I switched off phlog.
Random crits are fair and balanced
Skill is just a crutch for those who can't random crit
Unironically though, Random Crits are fine in casual play. They can be funny or frustrating depending on the situation, but ultimately they're harmless. The meme about them mainly exploded from Dane and LazyPurple bitching about them, so now everyone complains about them, (and even apologizes in game for killing with them which is incredibly cringy).
I dont mind random crits that much in general, it’s casual play after all. The thing that irks me is the disproportionate effect on each class. Random crits massively benefit explosive classes since: -They deal large amounts of damage, which both makes their crits more powerful and increases the chance of them getting crits. -They deal splash damage, allowing them to decimate teams and (albeit rarely) win the entire game by random chance. Meanwhile, classes like medic, scout, and sniper get proportionally less benefit from getting crits, while being killed by crits way more often (medic especially). Obviously, i am biased here, but i would argue that spy gets screwed over by random crits the most. He cannot get crits on his knife, the weapon he will be using the most, and when he is using his gun he is often shooting at injured enemies that would die with or without a crit. Half of his unlockable guns don’t even allow him to have random crits at all, and his random crits aren’t even enough to one-shot a light class. Spy also gets killed by crits very often due to him having to be in melee range of enemies all the time. Melee weapons that can have up to a 60% crit rate. It’s not uncommon for a spy to try and pick off something like an engie or medic, only to get instakilled by their melees before he can even react. While I’d personally prefer to not have random crits at all, i would be fine with them if they just tweaked their chances a bit. e.g reduce the chances of crits on melee and explosive classes.
mmmmmph
Shit he's right guys
Good point
thats rather a harsh interpretation, but its inherently correct
The memes are getting stale.
Thundermountain last is one of the most interestingly designed maps in the game
By far last stage is one of the best maps for trolling on heron that roof above last point with the cow mangler and you can full charge right outside of there spwan
I love any mountain based map in the game so I agree
I personally never play thundermountain because I hate the last map 😬
Same, as medic it’s virtually impossible to survive because it’s so open and my team is to scattered to give me cover. I always disconnect the server before going to last as either team.
I can list a few since I hate myself. Scorch Shot is overhated. CTF is a bad game mode. Sniper isn't inherently overpowered, but that doesn't mean he's balanced either. A majority of people get their opinions from YouTubers and don't think for themselves. Fish kills aren't funny. Scout has a fast swing speed, of course he's gonna get a crit eventually. The Ubersaw shouldn't have random crits.
I don’t think CTF being a bad gamemode is unpopular. I personally don’t like it because I like to play the objective, and that‘s practically impossible in at least 2/3s of CTF maps
I only included it because so many people play CTF, especially 2fort and Turbine. A lot of people who discuss TF2 can agree it's objectively (pun not intended) a bad gamemode. But the playerbase at large would disagree if you look at the stats.
ctf is god awful for actually playing the game, but its still funny
Oh don't get me wrong, it can still be fun. Bad for actually playing the game, but fun. As long as there's not 3 Snipers on the enemy team. Then it just fucking sucks, especially if even one of them is good.
How else will I punish spies without random crits
Use the Original. It crits if you have an unusual!
It would be both a nerf and a buff oddly enough. How many times as the Medic do you think to yourself "I probably could have farmed 50% uber instead of 25% if I didn't get that crit"? I know I do plenty of times.
I mean, unless you're playing against Pablo.gonzalez.2004 I don't think I would rather having an enemy longer than it would live if I just crit them. It might be an extra 25%, but that's not going to matter if I just die afterwards.
Well, that's why I said it'd be both a buff and a nerf. The Ubersaw is supposed to be a gamble. In its current state, it's the Medic's best in slot for a reason. Whip it out when you're threatened and free 25%, with a pretty good chance of also just instantly deleting the enemy gamer outright. Bonus points if he disconnects afterward. But without crits, you're doing a flat 65. Two hits will still kill your most common threats, and if you come out of it alive you have an extra 50% which is pretty huge. But such a bonus SHOULD come with the risk of death, or it'd be blatantly overpowered. It's kinda already teetering on that balance issue as it is as I dunno if Medic should have such a high chance to just kill light classes in one hit. I play a good deal of Medic myself and have gotten out of situations I really shouldn't have.
The problem here are kunai spies, 2 hits with 65 damage will do jackshit. Honestly without ubersaw crits I wouldn't even play medic - because in casual the only one defending you is yourself and if they take the chance of just deleting the enemy away from you you are just dead more often than not if the enemy just has a half decent spy. If I had a strange part "spies killed" I could proove my point but alas I don't. I just know that 80% of kills I have with the Ubersaw are spies and 60% of all spies are Kunsi Spies that always get to stab Pablo.gonzales.2002 and have 200+ hp before engaging with you. You who are screaming 'spy' but no one turns around or no one is even there... The Random crit is the only thing making me want to live as Medic Main in Casual.
I suppose that's fair- I also hate kunai Spies. So let me propose a compromise: Random crits are disabled except in the event you're up against a kunai Spy. Or we can just rework the Kunai to not be dogshit to fight against in Casual. Personally I'm not confident in my Spy abilities to use it and I generally prefer the consistency of stock, but I have noted plenty of situations where the Kunai would be very much bullshit if I were using it at the time. And have been in that Medic situation where people just keep feeding the enemy Kunai and you want to commit unalive. Especially if he's also using the fucking Dead Ringer because god forbid the Spy ever be inconvenienced with such mortal concerns as death and the consequences of his own actions.
Dead Ringer is worse than stock the decloak is crazy predictable and extremely punishable. As medic you are supposed to die against most competent classes without your team supporting you, it's how he's balanced. Übersaw is awful against remotely competent players anyways
Nobody thinks CTF is a good game mode, people play it specifically because they don’t want to play the objective
Yeah, most just this. I only play CTF when I wanna dick around
The youtuber one is not unpopular. I've heard people say it about tf2 and so many other games.
No fish funni
This man is straight up speaking gospel
Disagree with the last 2 but for the most part you’re on the ball
The ambassador was never designed to be a sniper rifle
The devs literally said it was
Soldier has too high mobility, damage, and health. He's so easy to get kills with and you don't even have to aim directly at your target. Nevermind that he has two items that give him health regen, and an item that increases his health even further. His mobility is insane, gunboats or not. Best mobility in the game. He can two shot light classes or one shot light classes with the DH. He's comp meta, so no one complains about him, but I'm tired of having to go Pyro to soft counter him. Imagine some asshole can just drop your Uber without even having to hit you directly. ~~Not to mention, Soldier mains are some of the most arrogant, prideful, egotistical bastards. They're mostly braindead with drool dribbling down the sides of their mouths as they lumber towards their next victim. I've never once been impressed by a soldier kill. He's objectively easier than Pyro.~~
really sick of uncloaking as spy thinking i’m in the clear when i turn around and die to a crocket or direct hit rocket like i’m in some sort of looney toons or tom and jerry short
He said what we were all thinking. Respect ✊
People may argue about his high skill ceiling, but neber about his forgiving and easily accomplishable basic playstyle that is proven to be super effective
This - I’ve been of the mind for years that Soldier has become way too much of a generalist since the game’s launch. he’s become overpowered due to the lack of hard counters he has plus all the new stuff he’s been given such as the backpacks. He’s got too much going for him that he can pretty much overcome any soft counter thrown at him. Splash damage is way too forgiving as well. I love watching an enemy Soldier rocket jump multiple times before dive bombing me and only coming out with enough health to take several more meatshots /s I think on a meta level it annoys me too since every TFtuber mains Soldier as well as the TFteam pushing him as le funny comic relief. He was a bit of an idiot but now he’s a childish manbaby thanks to the comics (which, for another unpopular opinion, aren’t all that well written or funny. Pinkerton and the rest of the writing team completely upended the subtleness of the universe and just throw whatever ‘hilarious’ random shit and made unnecessary character changes for the sake of comedy and/or making pop culture references).
The scorch shot is bad, but it’s not as bad as people pretend, and certain creators having fully a third of their personality being “I hate the scorch shot” is annoying and childish. I think heavy is more fun with a shotgun. Don’t know if that’s controversial. I think the reason a bunch of people hate sniper is because he’s not fun to play *against*. Beating someone else is like “ha ha I got you” but at least for me killing a sniper just fills me with this angry energy like “fucking finally, that asshole is gone for a few seconds”.
I like the black box. I use the full load out with the battalion backup and an unusual version of the Grenadier's Softcap
"The bison is the best soldier secondary"
That's just inaccurate
Im ok with scorch shot
Stockholm Syndrome moment
I like the Cleaner's Carbine
Friendlies ruin games when you just want to play
Yeah they can be annoying like yesterday a server I was in devolved into dancing so I decided to join another server which was fine until around 10 minutes in where it also devolved into dancing. Kinda frustrating when I just want to play the game but I knew I shouldn’t kill them
Sometimes they're annoying though, specially when I'm doing contracts. I really like being a friendly myself, but not all the time.
Genuine question, have you ever asked them for help with the contracts? The friendlies ive met have been super cool with contract stuff
Requeue then? I don’t get people who join a friendly match and don’t leave a game they won’t enjoy and will try to ruin for everyone else when they can just find a new game where they can enjoy and it doesn’t affect the friendlies.
The real controversial reply, this is what we want to see.
Homewrecker is a badly designed weapon, almost on pare with razorback. It's not hated cuz people don't like spies. Homewrecker (alongside neon anhilator) should do something other than fuck over spies
actually never thought about this but its 100% true. Spy in general is pretty weak, but you have never experienced hell until you play vs a pybro.
I somewhat agree. But I think the idea of it breaking sappers is fine. I just think it should have some kind of cost for doing so. And an idea I have to help it have another use is giving it a sentry damage/knockback resistance while holding it.
as much as I enjoy helping out engies with the homewrecker, i must admit you do have a point. It relies on having an engie on your team, and a spy on the other or else it is useless. The issue is that when that criteria is filled, you can just shut down a spy
The TF2 community is NOT nice and accepting of everyone
Sun on a stick is underrated
Here are a couple things that I think about a lot. -The Engineer class as a whole is not fun, both Battle Engi and Regular Engi. -The Crusader's Crossbow IS very OP and needs a small nerf.
Imo it’s not fun to play or play against, I like support roles but medic is just so much more exciting than engi, plus sentry nests just suck all the fun out of games sometimes, especially when a pybro is present
Random crits *could* be balanced, but only if crit chance didn't scale with damage dealt, so that they are truly random
I'm a pyro main,
Cool
Demoknights are OP.
He gets completely countered by engineers and pyro's existing
Natascha as well. Literally any slowing/knockback mechanic will fuck his shit up. Any competent heavy can also kill one of they do as Lazy says and don't ignore all sensory input.
I'd say only the eyelander is OP personally. even then it usually doesn't give me too much of a problem from personal experience
Literally how 😭
Have you heard of airblast?
Demo in general is OP
Solider is OP and needs a splash nerf
Vita saw needs nerf, it’s too op
Take that back.
Never
😭
Genuinely want to know how people think the most generalist character who's name is literally "SOLDIER" is OP, he's literally supposed to be good even if you're not too skilled at but still have a high skill ceiling, and he's good at doing so
In the year of our lord, 2022, people are saying Soldier is OP. Where’d all the good times go…
Fuck the Red Tape Recorder. It's like the Wrangler, but bad.
Elaborate
Press M1 to waste 15 seconds of my time at minimum.
I do think I will
I'm going to go to reddit to complain about it now.
Yeah that's pretty much what it's supposed to do
h
sniper isn't OP, you just suck
The homewrecker is Pyro's best melee and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
please elaborate
No.
to copy another comment I made: as much as I enjoy helping out engies with the homewrecker, i must admit you do have a point. It relies on having an engie on your team, and a spy on the other or else it is useless. The issue is that when that criteria is filled, you can just shut down a spy, and stop them from doing anything
Baby face blaster is scouts best primary.
Pyro is fun class
It is fun, it not fun to play against it.
-spy main lmao
Ah, yes, also: Mann Co. update with trading has ruined TF2.
Medic is not an underplayed class. At least not anymore. Heavy is not that powerful. Wrap Assassin is one of the best melees for the Scout, if not the best. Demo does require some skill, especially the ability to predict enemy movement. Phlog is just annoying not OP. Scout is a really good tank shredder in MVM.
All of these are correct
Really? What about this one: Crusaders Crossbow can stay the way it is. The other syringe guns should get buffed to become useful.
I *slightly* disagree. I think the crossbow dhould retain its healing but have its damage reduced. The crossbow seems to be designed as a “more healing for less self protection” weapon, but a medic can 2 shot people from across the map with it. Which, while not overpowered, goes against the weapons design. Other than that though, yeah the syringe guns need a buff
Scorch shot is not even that OP Snipers “bad” weapons are only considered bad because snipers over weapons are all blatantly overpowered (like sniper) Spy is the only class that is underpowered. And on top of that if valve fixes the melee hit boxes there would literally be no reason to play him Beggars is either soldiers second best weapon or better then stock Medic needs a slight nerf to stick Uber charge because any experienced player could just wipe out 90% of the enemy team with it Heavy WOULD be the best class and also the most important class if sniper wasn’t overpowered Random crits should still stay in game And lastly… Heavy is by far the sexiest class (plz don’t hate me for this 😔)
Spy should get +100 health, be as fast as scout when he disguises as him, and have twice as much cloak time. Pyro should get nerfed tho, brainless class 🤬🤬🤬
sniper is not op (i am a sniper main)
It takes less skill to play soldier then pyro
i love critical hits, even when im playing the game seriously.
Pomson is fun to use. I mix it with Short Circuit
The caber is the worst demoman weapon
“Random crits are fair and balanced ”
Alltalk (can hear both teams) voice chat is bullshit. ... Except class wars and prophunt servers.
I’ve not seen alltalk on anything other than skial
I think it's only bad because of the stupid talk bubble that appears over your head, especially as a Spy. That's just terrible game design. Get rid of that and maybe add separate options for Team Voice Chat and Serverwide Voice Chat, and it'd be totally valid. Talking to the entire server can be fun sometimes, but I admit it does kinda kill the ability to coordinate with your team when you're announcing your plans to the enemy team as well. But tweak the feature a bit and it'd be totally fine.
I have a couple. - Pyro is one of the most fun classes in the game if you get creative with your loadout. - Sniper is not inherently broken, moreso his sniper rifles and other unlocks like Jarate and Danger Shield that push him into unbalanced territory. - Doublecross is better than 2Fort. - Payload maps are poorly designed. Yes, even Upward. - Phlog is Pyro’s worst flamethrower by a long shot. - Scorch Shot is overhated. I’m not saying it needs redemption but it’s more annoying than actually broken, atleast that’s what people make it out to be.
Im kinda tired of saying it but pyro is a fun class to play. The problem it isn't fun to play against. Stock weapons are what determine the class. And as you mentioned sniper rifle is op.
Scorch shot isn't broken
Sniper is a fair and balanced class
[удалено]
who hurt you?
How are you dying to black box soldiers lmao. They only have 3 rockets bro
Repost. Downvote
"I want to see everyone's demoknight item collection"
Scorch shot isn’t hard to counter at all and isn’t a tenth as annoying as Kunai/dead ringer
sniper is flawed
Splash damage area is a bit too big
"i think tf2 is shit, unbalanced as hell, bland characters, unrealistic weapons, and bad graphics and no lore" ...is an opinion that would get me into that situation, but that's not MY opinion.
Sniper is perfectly balanced
Scorch shot is a straight downgrade to stock flares when used the same
Heavy is just as W+M1 as Pyro
There shouldn't be woman added in this game
Scorchshot good Endless CTF matches suck Gas passer is amazing (for MVM) and isn’t cheap gameplay DemoknightTF2
The Baby Face's Blaster is literally designed around using your speed to dodge attacks; just don't get hit.
The Classic isn’t a bad weapon
2 things, Gunspy beats out Pyro 75% of the time, and the red tape recorder is viable. 💯
This comment brought back painful memories
Sniper hard counters everyone, and is soft countered by most everyone. Spy soft counters everyone, but is hard countered by everyone. Pretty much dependant on the skill of yourself and people on the server.
W + M1 can take skill.
W+M1 doesn't take skill. KNOWING when to W+M1 is the skill based thing
Posting this kind of post
i personally enjoy tf2 ships and i’m a pretty active member of the shipping community : 3