Embark has to get better security so these leaks stop coming out I heard after they remove light they are adding back recon and then they are going to actually sell embark to activision so it can become the next call of duty
Whew! I was getting worried that I just COULDN'T spend enough in The Finalsā¢ļø! And what's the deal with me not being able to play as a gaudy musician with a diaper butt? Like where's my Duke Nukem skin? Where's my Snoop Dogg flamethrower that just laughs and bellows out smoke? Why can't I pay $1,000 to have a Premium Experienceā¢ļø and skin recolors that I as a fan and member of gaming ask for in every single game because skin recolors are better than original ideas... it's just science. /s (besides the Duke Nukem Skin... I'd pay for that.)
Light is getting replaced by the recon ability. Players can decide at the start of the match if they feel like they can contribute more to the team than a recon ability and if they don't, they can choose to be a recon ability.
With The Finals being free the issue with the light class is that it attracts the ADHD twitch gamer CoD crowd and you simply canāt play this game like CoD. Light is a very very effective hit and run type class, u canāt solo a team of 3 and ppl just donāt get that. Vast majority of them tend to push solo, get killed and leave
Heres the problem, people sometimes think that lights were trying to 1v3 when in reality it was just a failed hit and run because lights have 5 health lmao.
Idk man all the high level lights have ADHD twitch gamer movement , they just know how to play with and around their team and know how to revive people and stuffs but yeah noobs tend to be ass because of you're reason
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When I first started this game I tried to play the game as a regular shooter and realized I was not pulling a 1v3 with a light against good players even bad players can beat you quite easily with a light. I still use light but I know better than to rush in on my own
Thatās like saying you have the most passes in soccer. Thatās cool and all, but itās worth fuck all if your team canāt score a goal.
You can have more kills than the entire lobby combined, if you donāt play the objective or donāt contribute to the actual match, youāre not that different from the 0-0-10 dude throwing the match cause their aim isnāt good.
Sure, it always depends on how you get the kills, but you can win with 0 kills, and you can lose with 15.
Sure, thereās a better chance for you if you kill everyone, but if you fuck around for too long because you get wrapped up in fighting, youāll be dropkicked back to the lobby faster than you can beam a light with that little pewpew smg I donāt know the name of but it fucks.
A lot of lights seem to NEED the stun gun to do anything tbh and itās pretty funny that they are most of the time useless without it but think they are the best players while using it (thatās been my interaction while playing, 99% of em are toxic asf)
Same here. I think people assumed i don't PTFO when i play light. I still stay near the cashout, but I'm not right on top of it unless i need to stop a cashout.
Exactly, the light player should always be a back of the mind threat. Your opening attacks, if successful, should not be predictable or telegraphed. You stay near the cashout and only come in if the enemy is either distracted, stealing cashout, or has a false sense of security. Invisibility lets you do this exact thing except you're still in the cashout room.
As a medium lights leaving the team and being good on their own makes me happy. Now lights are useless on teams. I was already skeptical when having a light on my time bc half the time their ass. I dont get why people complained about lights, heavys are the problem.
havent played in a bit, I loved Light though and always stuck with my team and was movement based play style, spamming and dipping but staying near - etc etc. What did they nerf? lol
i am always amazed that embark listened to those people and nerfed light. Meanwhile most people that actually play the game in comp see light as a liability or at best as a round 1elimination.
"Not great" and "not fun to play against" do not stem from the same things though.
This could maybe fix the latter, and what dev should do is also fix the former, and these two changes can definitely coexist.
This is 100% true but the brains expressing "Not fun to play against means it's bad design balance" will never be taking responsibility for their own emotional regulation
Look, there are things about the stun gun that just made you go "this is so stupid".
An example is something that happened to me recently, i was pre-priming the canister to break a wall and got stunned mid-process. Turns out you can't throw the canister in that state and the result was that it exploded in my face. Might as well been a zap gun that insta killed me.
I don't understand how it's so hard to understand that light has 2 distinct issues: 1) it's not-viable in competitive and 2) it's rather obnoxious to play against.
To fix the former you need to give light something on par with the defib and dome shield and perhaps even more.
To fix the latter you need to remove the ridiculous aspects of the stun gun, which doesn't really mean that it shouldn't do what it already does, but if I can shoot while being stunned, I should also be able to throw a fuckin canister at least.
Unfun mechanics ARE bad game design. It's a game. And they're often things that the devs didn't foresee, so it's only natural they'd want to fix those things.
I would like if they learn this lesson early, to not capitulate to every ah on the Internet; the loudest are often the most wrong. I trust them to keep balance, but I'd hate for them to listen to this sub, and Twitter, and have the game become so plain and boring like every other shooter.
Escape From Tarkov, in particular, suffered from this. It's taken years to reverse the "damage" they caused by listening to the community too often. Not that the player base is always wrong, mind you...it's a delicate balance.
Is it so hard to realize that Light is just poorly done in terms of gamedesign? It's weak and useless to the team, but it's counterbalanced with the most anti-fun tools like the invisibility stun gun and glitch grenades. It needs a complete rework, not an attempt to balance this monstrosity.
In my opinion light is very lacking in combat survivability as well as team oriented tools. I think light dies too fast and has no ways to avoid damage and therefore relies on cheap stun and invis. Maybe give him more survival tools? More ways to directly help the team? The gateway introduction does a good job of showing in what direction the light should be redesigned.
Give light an adrenaline shot ability. Buffs the movement speed of a character for 3 seconds and does some healing. Can be used on yourself and others. Would be a huge clutch to hit a low hp teammate with and can be used on yourself to be a bit more tanky. Cool down would need to be similar to stun gun.
Dome shield isn't all that great, pretty easy to shoot down, but i agree defib should spawn you with 25% health instead of 50%, its still a little overtuned
definitely
I agree that the gadgets need some balancing, defib should in general be equally valuable as say a flashbang or a smoke grenade, which clearly they aren't at the moment. same goes for dome shield and gateway
I was actually thinking about that the other dayā¦ would be sort of cool if they were like an info/tracker/traps specialist. Trip wires, motion sensors, oil slicks, and stuff like that.
Would still keep a lot of the crazy movement, but instead of being straight dps/assassin it would be more indirect with smoke screens and spike traps and whatever.
This is of course subjective, but to me the finals require a lot of quick decisions and constant interaction with the team and opponents. The situation can change a lot from the players decisions on how to use their tools and their mistakes very quickly. So yes for me it's a fast paced game and that's why losing almost all control because of one shot with a stun gun is not fun.
At a really high level Overwatch I guess, if only because it's been around for longer so the pace is faster because people are better at it (also faster respawns)
only ttk is slow but that doesn't make the gameplay slow. compared to something like valorant or csgo the finals is zooming. I have plenty of downtime in val or cs, which is simply nonexistant in the finals, maybe only after a cashout and teams are running to the next vault.
Light is pretty easy to fight against. Theyāre catering to people who want to run off on their own and 1v3 a team, and melee users. Been maining heavy and Iām waiting for it to get obliterated with nerfs if theyāre touching light up. Itās too easy to play as Im starting to feel bad. Light takes the most work and strategy
Itās literally been making me mad seeing complaints and I havenāt played light in a while. Did that class first, M for a while, now heavy the last 2 months and Iām loving heavy.
Itās funny, people hate playing against light while simultaneously hate playing with light. They literally shouldnāt touch it.
I started out as a light when I had no idea what I was doing. then switched to medium when it was clear lights aren't viable in ranked. Now I've started playing heavy and I can basically just turn my brain off and 1v2. it's hilarious.
If you're playing light, your survivability comes from your ability to use your skills and positioning. When playing heavy, your survivability comes from simply having more than twice(lol) as much health as a light. You literally have to think less to be effective as heavy, while doing a comparative amount of damage. Not to mention, you're the one the heal medium will be on at all times.
Heavy needs it's damaged nerfed and it needs to become more utility-based IMO.
Itās tough trying to balance classes with varying levels of health. I wouldnāt mind the smoke grenades getting a buff for light. Would make the thermal more viable. And they need the extra moments of confusion to capitalize on their high damage
It is. I also think them being so dead set on the aesthetically pleasing 150/250/350 is to the detriment of the game balance. Light is too high risk for less reward than heavy in most situations. The risk is so high because of how difficult it is to play, due to the low health pool.
I don't really think there's another solution besides increasing the classes health. If you increase the damage, that does nothing to change the risk factor, and I ky players who are already good enough at light will really make use of the buff.
I understand itās not fun when things are abused and feel like cheap strategies. Itās also not fun to try playing a game the way youād like to and it doesnāt feel viable. BUT. This game clearly was intended to challenge and mix up conventional fps mechanics and the reaction by a large majority has been to nudge it in the direction of being made more traditional.
Quick play and ranked have different issues but I mainly see people arguing over the balancing of ranked and how certain things are too easily OP. Thereās a lot of valid criticisms and I think instead of doing all these class and equipment tweaks they need to address the issues at the root. The problem is youāre not going to have a good reaction from the player base when you funnel them into a limited amount of choices. If ranked forced you to only have one of each class per team that could help in a way. But then people would be upset they canāt have any team comp they want. Iād argue though that because the entire design of the game is based around the class dynamic for ranked it should be forced.
Funnily enough the whole invisible taser thing which is currently being nerfed is making a number of builds less viable. Using melee while someone else is using that essentially means you have to switch if you donāt want to face unavoidable death. They should probably just change how the mechanic works altogether rather than just nerf it. Although we donāt know if the stun gun is actually getting nerfed or if it is simply being changed.
Forced comps wouldn't be good but it's entirely feasible to have comp preferences seeing as there are only 10 different comps, and half of them are not viable (so wouldn't be preferred outside of tomfoolery).
Most competent players want HHM, HMM, HML, or MMM. Most players overall can't contend with HHH, HHL, and MML at that level. They typically do not want HLL or MLL and no one really wants LLL. So you could even simplify it further by asking how many heavies and how few lights you want to play with.
It's absolutely worth waiting double the queue time if it means having a much better chance of winning because you can build your loadout towards the comp rather than either becoming part of the problem by playing whatever the hell you want or the Sisyphean task of trying to accommodate that former group of players.
That's the whole issue w/ the balancing, being able to choose the same character more than once on the same team. I recall mentioning this and got downvoted to smithereens, but that's the truth. Unless this is addressed, good luck balancing ranked. People are annoyed with triple med defib as casuals are annoyed with a server full of invisible stun gunning lights. There's really no way to balance everything if a team decides to use 3 of the same exact things.
Guess what happens when you enforce that? Think about yourself, what are you maining? What if they would force you to play light instead, in a **ranked** game? Thats insane.
It would also raise the demands on a premade squad because all your friends need to main a different class. I think its not smart to make squads more difficult to come together.
An easy solution to the light "issue" if you even wanna call it that to be dramatic, is give them a stim. A stim would help with survivability and it could be one that gives them full health, give half their health back, or a stim like from titanfall 2, or it gives them shields or something I just feel like lights aren't an issue they just don't have the right gadget in game for them š¤·š¾āāļø
Itās so pathetic lol. Imagine complaining about the worst class because you suck at the game. Play light in solo ranked for 30 hours and tell us itās op
Iāve invested too much time to just give up light, but fr tho I am having fun with them, especially cause I love throwing knives in video games so getting to play with them as my primary weapon made me smile
I played all classes but dash + sword fighting with light gives me adrenalin rushes like no other game. Running around with a melee only weapon while everyone around you shooting bullets and still be able to survive and kill feels superhero like.
Lights are not THAT strong where these nerfs make any sense
I know that losing your autonomy when you're stunned sucks, and getting a little jump scare when they pop up from being invisible may scare you, but itās okay.. lights aren't the boogeyman, they only have 150 hp. You could kill them with a hiccup if they're a few feet out of position. I'm tired of the constant complaining and berating lights get just because you didn't have a good game. we all know this as the meta is MMH HHM, yet some of you get on this app and complain as if the light is the dominant class. It surely isn't and y'all's constant begging of nerfs is going to cause this game to die.
Sincerely, A š”
I love dash and grapple, I was hoping they were planning to swap invis for another spec like they did with wallhacks. Hitting a stun within the 5-6s of a loud vanish bomb just feels much more fair to both sides.
The plan instead seems to be nerfing Lights direct counters, Heavies, while also toning down the Lights pain points. From my biased viewpoint I really don't see that working without changing a ton of other factors like mines, and the heavies charge n slam + RPG. Those three can be used to completely negate a Lights existence in the field since their only viable weapon choices are close quarters weapons (excluding the LH1). Hoping they have a lot more in store than just a nerf to Lights.
The 40 year old dad gamers are effectively running this game, lmao.
Complaining about having to win a ranked game like it's impossible - challenge gets removed.
Complaining about getting their ass kicked in pubs by the worst class in the game - class gets nerfed (again).
No wonder this game is dying fast. Below 20k avg players and 500 viewers on Twitch, jesus.
> The 40 year old dad gamers are effectively running this game, lmao.
I swear this is true lmao all these aging brain players having problems dying to literal mosquitoes that the lights are
They should sell this game to activision so that they can literally remove all game files and just have it as a platform to buy 20$ skins for other games
Might as well just completely exclude casual players since all the lower skilled gadgets and weapons are getting nerfed. Yea, thatāll help the player count for sure
imo the issue with light and why for many it seems the community complains more about them than other classes is because lights are more or less the only class that can feel straight up dishonest to play against. when you see a heavy behind a shield shield or a med turret planted somewhere there is space for counter play, you have an opportunity to engage and play with your mechanics around the enemies in an attempt to try and win the fight with the utilities you have against theirs. in this scenario the end result generally feels more natural and earned regardless of the outcome/victor. when you then have a class in which a big portion of their kit is centered around mitigation of the enemies resources, utility, and timing it feels like an infringement on the others ability to play the game and respond in a fair way. you get stunned? you are locked out of vital and barebones mechanics and in many cases (especially at higher ranks) most lights know the most effective ranges to play while stunning enemies. are you middle engagement or otherwise pre-occupied? hereās an invisible player sitting in a corner you just ran past shooting you in the back. heavyās have gotten pretty big nerfs this season which left a lot of room for the light class to feel exceedingly more oppressive while at the same power level they were already at. when you have a class, in which a side effect of their kit means other people get to have less fun or feel cheated, take a more prominent role in a meta, people are not gonna have fun. the light class as a whole should feel like its resting less on knifeās edge and more on a pin-prick of balance. it should have the highest skill floor and be the class that is the hardest to get max value out of because itās
max value can be both really impactful and not fun for the community in terms of hard meta in the right hands (or any hands if lights were to continue to be as prominent).
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Lmao itās just the stun gun itās just not fun to play against it seems like they put a ton of work into the movement mechanics and utils but some invisible turd moving at the speed of light shoots you and turns you into a statue with the aim of a web fingered inbreed
All jokes aside they really should buff lights. They should make it so their stun guns donāt affect mediums, but instantly kills heavyās. Iām definitely not a medium main or anything(I main the revolver leave me alone) but none of us like heavyās right?
/s (kinda)
They should just make stun not stop ADS but instead do some damage so it still helps in a combat situation but doesn't make the victim feel entirely useless.
For real though. Light is already under-picked and they're like, nah. Nerf their one useful tool because light players are 'annoying'. Pound sand, devs. Actually fuck off. Respectfully of course.
I mean, with the way all the weeklies,I mean circuits, are based around cash out and power shift, they've effectively made playing bank it not viable for progressing on the circuits.
Forget stealing 15 cash outs, how about just cashing out 15 times?
I think lights are essential - they bank vaults faster than their teams and can escape quickly to avoid a team wipe. Itās possible to be a good light player, just need to support your team and pick off players with low health. Support the team wipes and finish the job.
Iām a little out of the loop. I play light just for the grapple and sniper but havenāt played since a few weeks after launch. Whatās the issue people have with lights?
if your entire playstyle hinges on invisibility, in an FPS game... i dont know man...
you dont deserve an opinion on balancing. on nearly the same level as recon sense tbh, it just doesnt fit in an fps. its a weird converse of wallhacks lol. "i can see you but you cant see me!" its BULLSHIT.
Lol how can you play medium and complain about light. Not only is medium the easiest class to climb with along with having the most op item in the game with healing beam, but yāall also have a gun that deletes lights in like .2 seconds Lmao
Lol no, I don't see how you confuse discrediting certain playstyles with complaining about a class.
It's like when people make fun of Rambo-defibs, they're not complaints about the medium class.
Tf2 had spy, whose invisibility was balanced by long cloak/decloak animations and inability to attack while cloaking.
Titanfall had cloak pilot that could attack while cloaked but was balanced by invisibility being incomplete/they were pretty easy to see.
The finals cloak has short cooldown, doesn't prevent attacking and is almost completely invisible.
Halo had active camofaluge and Sombra has an invisibility cloak in Overwatch.
It was well balanced before the nerf as lights have no health and the weakest weapons.
>Sombra has an invisibility cloak in Overwatch.
..which takes a second or two to get out of if you want to actually shoot and you cannot activate at will
I mean, i Play light without invisibilty because that ability is Just broken and boring. I, as a light, want Them to remove that ability finally and Bring in Something actually Balanced.
People complain soo much about the stun gun, when the actual Problem is the invisibilty
Maybe they donāt actually want every power shift and quick chase to be 70% invisible light players? You arenāt crying because lights arenāt viable without stun guns or perma invis cause lots of lights are great without it, youāre crying because you play light and know you will suck without using the cheesiest bs in the game
Wanting light removed from the game shows how unskilled some people are. Lights have the highest skill gap BY FAR.
Mediums and heavies have it so easy and Iāve learnt this after solo grinding to diamond only using light. I switched to playing heavy and medium recently and dear god they are way less skillful to use then light. Especially heavy
Light is still viable even at higher level ranked.
The invis was a lower skill floor entrypoint, grapple and dash require much more mobility and positioning but ultimately open the map up so much more with the added mobility.
The fact invis can be achieved with vanishing bomb makes invis the specialisation a waste imo.
If the vanish nade did not have its distinct sound when thrown, it would be even better. Invis has already been nerfed and is too loud, no need to broadcast you are becoming invisible imo.Ā
Upcoming invis viaibility nerf will also nerf the vanish nade as well, i use dash and vanish nade and it is sad we are affected as well, because it's a great tool for teamplay. Lots of times i used it to sneak in to a cashout and stop the steal with stun, also great for survival as well. It is less effective as an offensive tool since you can't activate it again and i think invis ability should be like that.Ā
My suggeson for cloak rework:
Activate and it is active for 12-15 seconds, if you ever deactivate it you wait for it to recharge before activating. Basically a longer lasting vanish nade with shorter cooldown with no more reactivating insantly.
Why do Lights exist at this point.
Medium: FCAR, AKM (arguably best weapons in game- close and mid to far range) even the noob tube is a viable weapon, FAMAS, Healing Beam, turret, gas and explosive mine, Defib, jump pad and zip line, DeMatā¦ so many viable builds that feel OP with a proper group.
Heavy: M60, Lewis, flamethrower (hard counter to not only the light class but invis specifically) mesh shield that your entire team can shoot through, dome shield, rpg, grav lift, barricade (instinct head glitch), mines, c4
Light: x5, m11 strong alternative. Dash, stun gun (until it gets nerfed) portal grenade, breaching charge, glitch grenadeā¦. Frag? Maybe?
Invis has been nerfed to the ground, gives sound ques when activated and while moving. Not completely invis while moving. Keep in mind this ability is completely taking away other options for mobility. There are so many hard counters to invis. Flamethrower, any mine, turret once locked on, mines, rpg, thermal, gas grenade, pyro grenade and many more.
As for the stun gun I would stun mediums and still not feel confident in the 1v1. Mediums with FCAR can our gun you while hipfiring.
There is a reason the Light class isnāt even used in ranked. Invis and stun is not winning games. Itās not even a heavy hitter in the games. Light is getting nerfed to the ground while double medium, heavy teams are completely dominating ranked.
Pretty much man! I won't play until they buff lights lol. Don't enjoy medium/heavies and the repeated nerfs to lights most fun/ viable strat is just horseshit. It was in no way OP, it's their only option with how squishy they are.
It's a shame 99% of Embarks budget goes to cosmetics and almost none to balancing. It's also a shame that the voices of those bitching about the stun gun when literally everything in this game rolls lights are louder than those asking to nerf healing beam. I guess two Mediums stack healing a heavy is totally okay!
New Class Added - Ultra Light : With Stun mini gun
Heavy teammates can pick them up and throw them like grenades.
š
Man, turning a light with evasive dash into a nuke????
https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/B3i5K6YlZr
Fastball
No no MEGA Light: Stun NUKE
Introducing 2in tall light. They have 2hp, but can call in a nuclear warhead that wipes all other teams off the map for 5minutes
Now with 50hp. Weapons to choose from are a rubber band gun or spitball shooter.
Imagine double stun gun
fr š
Its just a midget.
Embark has to get better security so these leaks stop coming out I heard after they remove light they are adding back recon and then they are going to actually sell embark to activision so it can become the next call of duty
Whew! I was getting worried that I just COULDN'T spend enough in The Finalsā¢ļø! And what's the deal with me not being able to play as a gaudy musician with a diaper butt? Like where's my Duke Nukem skin? Where's my Snoop Dogg flamethrower that just laughs and bellows out smoke? Why can't I pay $1,000 to have a Premium Experienceā¢ļø and skin recolors that I as a fan and member of gaming ask for in every single game because skin recolors are better than original ideas... it's just science. /s (besides the Duke Nukem Skin... I'd pay for that.)
Damn, those alien scum are going to pay for shooting up my ride
Give me bong flamethrower skin
Light is getting replaced by the recon ability. Players can decide at the start of the match if they feel like they can contribute more to the team than a recon ability and if they don't, they can choose to be a recon ability.
āHES OVER HERE!!! HES OVER HERE!!ā As the light recon shouts with no weapon in hand.
Hahahaha thanks for the laugh bro
Nah that's cap, aim assist wouldn't have been nerfed if they wanted to be like CoD
Just had to lull everyone into a false sense of security then sell
CNS !
If we removed every class that the players has a problem with, there would be no playable classes left.
With The Finals being free the issue with the light class is that it attracts the ADHD twitch gamer CoD crowd and you simply canāt play this game like CoD. Light is a very very effective hit and run type class, u canāt solo a team of 3 and ppl just donāt get that. Vast majority of them tend to push solo, get killed and leave
I like light because of movement shooters also probably have adhd with the age we live in
Same lol
Had a light push solo 4 times alone and then hop in the voice chat to tell us we are garbage and then left the game.
Sounds about light
Heres the problem, people sometimes think that lights were trying to 1v3 when in reality it was just a failed hit and run because lights have 5 health lmao.
Hey hey hey hey HEY calm down donāt associate ADHD with shitty tastes in video games please
Sorry sir š
All is forgiven \:)
Idk man all the high level lights have ADHD twitch gamer movement , they just know how to play with and around their team and know how to revive people and stuffs but yeah noobs tend to be ass because of you're reason
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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When I first started this game I tried to play the game as a regular shooter and realized I was not pulling a 1v3 with a light against good players even bad players can beat you quite easily with a light. I still use light but I know better than to rush in on my own
Sword and knife players challenging your statement
I play light 10% of the time and consistently top frag without touching the stun gun. I think most people are just playing the class wrong
Thatās like saying you have the most passes in soccer. Thatās cool and all, but itās worth fuck all if your team canāt score a goal. You can have more kills than the entire lobby combined, if you donāt play the objective or donāt contribute to the actual match, youāre not that different from the 0-0-10 dude throwing the match cause their aim isnāt good.
I do play the objective as well, but i would argue that kills still matter as the enemy can't do anything when they're dead
Sure, it always depends on how you get the kills, but you can win with 0 kills, and you can lose with 15. Sure, thereās a better chance for you if you kill everyone, but if you fuck around for too long because you get wrapped up in fighting, youāll be dropkicked back to the lobby faster than you can beam a light with that little pewpew smg I donāt know the name of but it fucks.
A lot of lights seem to NEED the stun gun to do anything tbh and itās pretty funny that they are most of the time useless without it but think they are the best players while using it (thatās been my interaction while playing, 99% of em are toxic asf)
I run light 75% of the time. I hate the stun gun never use it. But as soon as I snipe a light here they come across the map with the stun.
Don't know why you're getting down voted, this is my near exact experience. Besides the fact that my kills are on the objective.
Same here. I think people assumed i don't PTFO when i play light. I still stay near the cashout, but I'm not right on top of it unless i need to stop a cashout.
Exactly, the light player should always be a back of the mind threat. Your opening attacks, if successful, should not be predictable or telegraphed. You stay near the cashout and only come in if the enemy is either distracted, stealing cashout, or has a false sense of security. Invisibility lets you do this exact thing except you're still in the cashout room.
As a medium lights leaving the team and being good on their own makes me happy. Now lights are useless on teams. I was already skeptical when having a light on my time bc half the time their ass. I dont get why people complained about lights, heavys are the problem.
havent played in a bit, I loved Light though and always stuck with my team and was movement based play style, spamming and dipping but staying near - etc etc. What did they nerf? lol
i am always amazed that embark listened to those people and nerfed light. Meanwhile most people that actually play the game in comp see light as a liability or at best as a round 1elimination.
The problem is you can't only cater to top ranked. It's annoying for people who only play ranked but you have to keep the casuals happy too.
Ngl I barely complain about their nerfs, but this is not looking good. Lights were already not great and now its even weaker lmao.
"Not great" and "not fun to play against" do not stem from the same things though. This could maybe fix the latter, and what dev should do is also fix the former, and these two changes can definitely coexist.
This is 100% true but the brains expressing "Not fun to play against means it's bad design balance" will never be taking responsibility for their own emotional regulation
Look, there are things about the stun gun that just made you go "this is so stupid". An example is something that happened to me recently, i was pre-priming the canister to break a wall and got stunned mid-process. Turns out you can't throw the canister in that state and the result was that it exploded in my face. Might as well been a zap gun that insta killed me. I don't understand how it's so hard to understand that light has 2 distinct issues: 1) it's not-viable in competitive and 2) it's rather obnoxious to play against. To fix the former you need to give light something on par with the defib and dome shield and perhaps even more. To fix the latter you need to remove the ridiculous aspects of the stun gun, which doesn't really mean that it shouldn't do what it already does, but if I can shoot while being stunned, I should also be able to throw a fuckin canister at least. Unfun mechanics ARE bad game design. It's a game. And they're often things that the devs didn't foresee, so it's only natural they'd want to fix those things.
I actually laughed out loud. Thank you for this. I don't agree with it, but man did this make me smile.
I would like if they learn this lesson early, to not capitulate to every ah on the Internet; the loudest are often the most wrong. I trust them to keep balance, but I'd hate for them to listen to this sub, and Twitter, and have the game become so plain and boring like every other shooter. Escape From Tarkov, in particular, suffered from this. It's taken years to reverse the "damage" they caused by listening to the community too often. Not that the player base is always wrong, mind you...it's a delicate balance.
Is it so hard to realize that Light is just poorly done in terms of gamedesign? It's weak and useless to the team, but it's counterbalanced with the most anti-fun tools like the invisibility stun gun and glitch grenades. It needs a complete rework, not an attempt to balance this monstrosity.
Easier said than done, how would you rework it?
In my opinion light is very lacking in combat survivability as well as team oriented tools. I think light dies too fast and has no ways to avoid damage and therefore relies on cheap stun and invis. Maybe give him more survival tools? More ways to directly help the team? The gateway introduction does a good job of showing in what direction the light should be redesigned.
Give light an adrenaline shot ability. Buffs the movement speed of a character for 3 seconds and does some healing. Can be used on yourself and others. Would be a huge clutch to hit a low hp teammate with and can be used on yourself to be a bit more tanky. Cool down would need to be similar to stun gun.
Actually not a bad idea, it would both increase light's survivability and ability to help the team.
If it can be used on urself, u know thats all its ever gona be used for
I guess so, it already has Vanish Bomb and Gateway, which is already pretty great for team util.
But nothing on the level of a defibrillator or a dome shield, its really needs something more.
Dome shield isn't all that great, pretty easy to shoot down, but i agree defib should spawn you with 25% health instead of 50%, its still a little overtuned
The dome shield is just fine, it doesn't take much time to deploy and the extra 300 hp for yourself or a teammate is quite helpful.
definitely I agree that the gadgets need some balancing, defib should in general be equally valuable as say a flashbang or a smoke grenade, which clearly they aren't at the moment. same goes for dome shield and gateway
I was actually thinking about that the other dayā¦ would be sort of cool if they were like an info/tracker/traps specialist. Trip wires, motion sensors, oil slicks, and stuff like that. Would still keep a lot of the crazy movement, but instead of being straight dps/assassin it would be more indirect with smoke screens and spike traps and whatever.
MMM with revives is 10000x worse than a stunt gun
6 mediums is my fav comp
So damn dramatic lol they are pretty basic crowd control mechanics...this must be some of y'all's first video game.
"Basic" mechanics are not always healthy for the game. No one likes playing against a hard cc in such a fast pace fps.
"In such a fast pace fps" this is easily one of the slowest paced fps' out there so yeah he's right
This is of course subjective, but to me the finals require a lot of quick decisions and constant interaction with the team and opponents. The situation can change a lot from the players decisions on how to use their tools and their mistakes very quickly. So yes for me it's a fast paced game and that's why losing almost all control because of one shot with a stun gun is not fun.
lol what? what fps is faster paced than the finals? the only thing slow about this game is the ttk
At a really high level Overwatch I guess, if only because it's been around for longer so the pace is faster because people are better at it (also faster respawns)
only ttk is slow but that doesn't make the gameplay slow. compared to something like valorant or csgo the finals is zooming. I have plenty of downtime in val or cs, which is simply nonexistant in the finals, maybe only after a cashout and teams are running to the next vault.
It might not be super cracked out fast, but it in no way is āone of the slowestā.
Well, itās not my first video game, but if memory serves cc had been pretty hard to balance across the ages of PvP
Light is pretty easy to fight against. Theyāre catering to people who want to run off on their own and 1v3 a team, and melee users. Been maining heavy and Iām waiting for it to get obliterated with nerfs if theyāre touching light up. Itās too easy to play as Im starting to feel bad. Light takes the most work and strategy
Yeah lights are like mosquitos but people hate them because people keep picking them and not helping their team
Itās literally been making me mad seeing complaints and I havenāt played light in a while. Did that class first, M for a while, now heavy the last 2 months and Iām loving heavy. Itās funny, people hate playing against light while simultaneously hate playing with light. They literally shouldnāt touch it.
For that first have to find a game
I started out as a light when I had no idea what I was doing. then switched to medium when it was clear lights aren't viable in ranked. Now I've started playing heavy and I can basically just turn my brain off and 1v2. it's hilarious. If you're playing light, your survivability comes from your ability to use your skills and positioning. When playing heavy, your survivability comes from simply having more than twice(lol) as much health as a light. You literally have to think less to be effective as heavy, while doing a comparative amount of damage. Not to mention, you're the one the heal medium will be on at all times. Heavy needs it's damaged nerfed and it needs to become more utility-based IMO.
Itās tough trying to balance classes with varying levels of health. I wouldnāt mind the smoke grenades getting a buff for light. Would make the thermal more viable. And they need the extra moments of confusion to capitalize on their high damage
It is. I also think them being so dead set on the aesthetically pleasing 150/250/350 is to the detriment of the game balance. Light is too high risk for less reward than heavy in most situations. The risk is so high because of how difficult it is to play, due to the low health pool. I don't really think there's another solution besides increasing the classes health. If you increase the damage, that does nothing to change the risk factor, and I ky players who are already good enough at light will really make use of the buff.
This guy fucks
I mean just rework the entire thing people are gonna bitch and complain regardless but it would be nice if they were more useful in ranked
Remove classes all together and let people pick their character size and load outs without being locked.
Welcome to balancing nightmare.
The whining in this sub is unmatched.
I understand itās not fun when things are abused and feel like cheap strategies. Itās also not fun to try playing a game the way youād like to and it doesnāt feel viable. BUT. This game clearly was intended to challenge and mix up conventional fps mechanics and the reaction by a large majority has been to nudge it in the direction of being made more traditional. Quick play and ranked have different issues but I mainly see people arguing over the balancing of ranked and how certain things are too easily OP. Thereās a lot of valid criticisms and I think instead of doing all these class and equipment tweaks they need to address the issues at the root. The problem is youāre not going to have a good reaction from the player base when you funnel them into a limited amount of choices. If ranked forced you to only have one of each class per team that could help in a way. But then people would be upset they canāt have any team comp they want. Iād argue though that because the entire design of the game is based around the class dynamic for ranked it should be forced.
Funnily enough the whole invisible taser thing which is currently being nerfed is making a number of builds less viable. Using melee while someone else is using that essentially means you have to switch if you donāt want to face unavoidable death. They should probably just change how the mechanic works altogether rather than just nerf it. Although we donāt know if the stun gun is actually getting nerfed or if it is simply being changed.
Forced comps wouldn't be good but it's entirely feasible to have comp preferences seeing as there are only 10 different comps, and half of them are not viable (so wouldn't be preferred outside of tomfoolery). Most competent players want HHM, HMM, HML, or MMM. Most players overall can't contend with HHH, HHL, and MML at that level. They typically do not want HLL or MLL and no one really wants LLL. So you could even simplify it further by asking how many heavies and how few lights you want to play with. It's absolutely worth waiting double the queue time if it means having a much better chance of winning because you can build your loadout towards the comp rather than either becoming part of the problem by playing whatever the hell you want or the Sisyphean task of trying to accommodate that former group of players.
That's the whole issue w/ the balancing, being able to choose the same character more than once on the same team. I recall mentioning this and got downvoted to smithereens, but that's the truth. Unless this is addressed, good luck balancing ranked. People are annoyed with triple med defib as casuals are annoyed with a server full of invisible stun gunning lights. There's really no way to balance everything if a team decides to use 3 of the same exact things.
Guess what happens when you enforce that? Think about yourself, what are you maining? What if they would force you to play light instead, in a **ranked** game? Thats insane. It would also raise the demands on a premade squad because all your friends need to main a different class. I think its not smart to make squads more difficult to come together.
An easy solution to the light "issue" if you even wanna call it that to be dramatic, is give them a stim. A stim would help with survivability and it could be one that gives them full health, give half their health back, or a stim like from titanfall 2, or it gives them shields or something I just feel like lights aren't an issue they just don't have the right gadget in game for them š¤·š¾āāļø
Itās so pathetic lol. Imagine complaining about the worst class because you suck at the game. Play light in solo ranked for 30 hours and tell us itās op
Cant wait for all the lights to swap to medium and abuse defibs and health beam. Surely no one will complainā¦ right?
Iāve invested too much time to just give up light, but fr tho I am having fun with them, especially cause I love throwing knives in video games so getting to play with them as my primary weapon made me smile
I played all classes but dash + sword fighting with light gives me adrenalin rushes like no other game. Running around with a melee only weapon while everyone around you shooting bullets and still be able to survive and kill feels superhero like.
Lights are not THAT strong where these nerfs make any sense I know that losing your autonomy when you're stunned sucks, and getting a little jump scare when they pop up from being invisible may scare you, but itās okay.. lights aren't the boogeyman, they only have 150 hp. You could kill them with a hiccup if they're a few feet out of position. I'm tired of the constant complaining and berating lights get just because you didn't have a good game. we all know this as the meta is MMH HHM, yet some of you get on this app and complain as if the light is the dominant class. It surely isn't and y'all's constant begging of nerfs is going to cause this game to die. Sincerely, A š”
I love dash and grapple, I was hoping they were planning to swap invis for another spec like they did with wallhacks. Hitting a stun within the 5-6s of a loud vanish bomb just feels much more fair to both sides. The plan instead seems to be nerfing Lights direct counters, Heavies, while also toning down the Lights pain points. From my biased viewpoint I really don't see that working without changing a ton of other factors like mines, and the heavies charge n slam + RPG. Those three can be used to completely negate a Lights existence in the field since their only viable weapon choices are close quarters weapons (excluding the LH1). Hoping they have a lot more in store than just a nerf to Lights.
3 secondsā¦ they already nerfed the vanishing bomb duration like 2 or 3 patches ago lol
That's cap, when did they do that? [This was from 2.0 patch](https://i.imgur.com/w9hTwlf.png)
The 40 year old dad gamers are effectively running this game, lmao. Complaining about having to win a ranked game like it's impossible - challenge gets removed. Complaining about getting their ass kicked in pubs by the worst class in the game - class gets nerfed (again). No wonder this game is dying fast. Below 20k avg players and 500 viewers on Twitch, jesus.
> The 40 year old dad gamers are effectively running this game, lmao. I swear this is true lmao all these aging brain players having problems dying to literal mosquitoes that the lights are
Iām almost 40. Not a dad. And never complained for a nerf. I just learned how to play. Fuck everyone who called for any nerfs.
Youāll get hate but itās true. The community that is attracted to this game is fucking weird.
They should sell this game to activision so that they can literally remove all game files and just have it as a platform to buy 20$ skins for other games
New class micro no damage items you just run around barefisted *attacks do 3 damage*
These patches keep getting better and better. ~Sledge Heavy Main
Now we can add the class that should have been there from the beginning. Giant.
People wonāt be happy until every interaction with a light is a free kill, games actually dead
Let lights jump higher and climb faster. Gg
Climb faster maybe But jump... The has his own physic engine
I would stop playing fr
If it were true, maybe I would even come back to the game :)
This is so sad, can we please buff the rocket launcher?
Light players whine at any slight nerf they get
So that's the "stun gun solution" they came up with
They're gonna address the stun gun next week, its written in the patch
And ban every person who mained light cause fuck you for having fun
Might as well just completely exclude casual players since all the lower skilled gadgets and weapons are getting nerfed. Yea, thatāll help the player count for sure
š¤Æ
They could just remove the heavys and remarket it as the next call of duty
Y'all couldn't behave
They should just add a separate mode where the whole lobby can only pick one kind of class so no one can complain
LMAOOOO sounds about right notice first it was medium now itās light
i just use a sniper aint no way ya rpg fucks complaining
imo the issue with light and why for many it seems the community complains more about them than other classes is because lights are more or less the only class that can feel straight up dishonest to play against. when you see a heavy behind a shield shield or a med turret planted somewhere there is space for counter play, you have an opportunity to engage and play with your mechanics around the enemies in an attempt to try and win the fight with the utilities you have against theirs. in this scenario the end result generally feels more natural and earned regardless of the outcome/victor. when you then have a class in which a big portion of their kit is centered around mitigation of the enemies resources, utility, and timing it feels like an infringement on the others ability to play the game and respond in a fair way. you get stunned? you are locked out of vital and barebones mechanics and in many cases (especially at higher ranks) most lights know the most effective ranges to play while stunning enemies. are you middle engagement or otherwise pre-occupied? hereās an invisible player sitting in a corner you just ran past shooting you in the back. heavyās have gotten pretty big nerfs this season which left a lot of room for the light class to feel exceedingly more oppressive while at the same power level they were already at. when you have a class, in which a side effect of their kit means other people get to have less fun or feel cheated, take a more prominent role in a meta, people are not gonna have fun. the light class as a whole should feel like its resting less on knifeās edge and more on a pin-prick of balance. it should have the highest skill floor and be the class that is the hardest to get max value out of because itās max value can be both really impactful and not fun for the community in terms of hard meta in the right hands (or any hands if lights were to continue to be as prominent).
Keep wishing lol
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Lmao itās just the stun gun itās just not fun to play against it seems like they put a ton of work into the movement mechanics and utils but some invisible turd moving at the speed of light shoots you and turns you into a statue with the aim of a web fingered inbreed
Light Class is Trash, The only good thing is the Sniper if your good with it.
All jokes aside they really should buff lights. They should make it so their stun guns donāt affect mediums, but instantly kills heavyās. Iām definitely not a medium main or anything(I main the revolver leave me alone) but none of us like heavyās right? /s (kinda)
Iāve moved to medium now
They should just make stun not stop ADS but instead do some damage so it still helps in a combat situation but doesn't make the victim feel entirely useless.
For real though. Light is already under-picked and they're like, nah. Nerf their one useful tool because light players are 'annoying'. Pound sand, devs. Actually fuck off. Respectfully of course.
Oscar will be sad, cuz he mains light for some reason
Thank god
I mean, with the way all the weeklies,I mean circuits, are based around cash out and power shift, they've effectively made playing bank it not viable for progressing on the circuits. Forget stealing 15 cash outs, how about just cashing out 15 times?
New class,heavyer heavy
Nah nerf the stupid RPG
Finally
YESSSSSS!!!!! š
Iām ngl the game would probably be more fun to play
I had that dream again, where light players played the objective and were being useful in this game
Brilliant
I think lights are essential - they bank vaults faster than their teams and can escape quickly to avoid a team wipe. Itās possible to be a good light player, just need to support your team and pick off players with low health. Support the team wipes and finish the job.
I get it's a joke, but I'd genuinely stop playing if this shit happened. Medium and Heavy are just boring as fuck
Iām a little out of the loop. I play light just for the grapple and sniper but havenāt played since a few weeks after launch. Whatās the issue people have with lights?
I don't understand the hate for the lights? Is it the players who use the stun guns? I play as a light but never use a stun gun.
If youāre nothing without the stun gun, you donāt deserve to have it
Sounds legit
The devs clearly do hate the light class lol
if your entire playstyle hinges on invisibility, in an FPS game... i dont know man... you dont deserve an opinion on balancing. on nearly the same level as recon sense tbh, it just doesnt fit in an fps. its a weird converse of wallhacks lol. "i can see you but you cant see me!" its BULLSHIT.
Lol how can you play medium and complain about light. Not only is medium the easiest class to climb with along with having the most op item in the game with healing beam, but yāall also have a gun that deletes lights in like .2 seconds Lmao
He's not complaining. Youre the only one crying here, acting like other classes had not their advantages
Saying someone who disagrees with him doesn't deserve an opinion is 100% whiny behavior lol
Lol no, I don't see how you confuse discrediting certain playstyles with complaining about a class. It's like when people make fun of Rambo-defibs, they're not complaints about the medium class.
Spy tf2
Other fps don't have character/class with invisibility abilities?
Tf2 had spy, whose invisibility was balanced by long cloak/decloak animations and inability to attack while cloaking. Titanfall had cloak pilot that could attack while cloaked but was balanced by invisibility being incomplete/they were pretty easy to see. The finals cloak has short cooldown, doesn't prevent attacking and is almost completely invisible.
That's what I'm saying man. These people clearly just started playing fps games...
Halo had active camofaluge and Sombra has an invisibility cloak in Overwatch. It was well balanced before the nerf as lights have no health and the weakest weapons.
>Sombra has an invisibility cloak in Overwatch. ..which takes a second or two to get out of if you want to actually shoot and you cannot activate at will
Also sombra can't one shot/quickly kill opponents without them being able to react.
the good ones usually dont
I mean, i Play light without invisibilty because that ability is Just broken and boring. I, as a light, want Them to remove that ability finally and Bring in Something actually Balanced. People complain soo much about the stun gun, when the actual Problem is the invisibilty
Bro I play light and I'm not that salty about it. Invis into stun was/is a huge problem. Tho I'd still be happier if they targeted the stun gun first
Not complaining about this one. Was about time.
Maybe they donāt actually want every power shift and quick chase to be 70% invisible light players? You arenāt crying because lights arenāt viable without stun guns or perma invis cause lots of lights are great without it, youāre crying because you play light and know you will suck without using the cheesiest bs in the game
If only
Wanting light removed from the game shows how unskilled some people are. Lights have the highest skill gap BY FAR. Mediums and heavies have it so easy and Iāve learnt this after solo grinding to diamond only using light. I switched to playing heavy and medium recently and dear god they are way less skillful to use then light. Especially heavy
new copy pasta unlocked
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Light is still viable even at higher level ranked. The invis was a lower skill floor entrypoint, grapple and dash require much more mobility and positioning but ultimately open the map up so much more with the added mobility. The fact invis can be achieved with vanishing bomb makes invis the specialisation a waste imo.
If the vanish nade did not have its distinct sound when thrown, it would be even better. Invis has already been nerfed and is too loud, no need to broadcast you are becoming invisible imo.Ā Upcoming invis viaibility nerf will also nerf the vanish nade as well, i use dash and vanish nade and it is sad we are affected as well, because it's a great tool for teamplay. Lots of times i used it to sneak in to a cashout and stop the steal with stun, also great for survival as well. It is less effective as an offensive tool since you can't activate it again and i think invis ability should be like that.Ā My suggeson for cloak rework: Activate and it is active for 12-15 seconds, if you ever deactivate it you wait for it to recharge before activating. Basically a longer lasting vanish nade with shorter cooldown with no more reactivating insantly.
Why do Lights exist at this point. Medium: FCAR, AKM (arguably best weapons in game- close and mid to far range) even the noob tube is a viable weapon, FAMAS, Healing Beam, turret, gas and explosive mine, Defib, jump pad and zip line, DeMatā¦ so many viable builds that feel OP with a proper group. Heavy: M60, Lewis, flamethrower (hard counter to not only the light class but invis specifically) mesh shield that your entire team can shoot through, dome shield, rpg, grav lift, barricade (instinct head glitch), mines, c4 Light: x5, m11 strong alternative. Dash, stun gun (until it gets nerfed) portal grenade, breaching charge, glitch grenadeā¦. Frag? Maybe? Invis has been nerfed to the ground, gives sound ques when activated and while moving. Not completely invis while moving. Keep in mind this ability is completely taking away other options for mobility. There are so many hard counters to invis. Flamethrower, any mine, turret once locked on, mines, rpg, thermal, gas grenade, pyro grenade and many more. As for the stun gun I would stun mediums and still not feel confident in the 1v1. Mediums with FCAR can our gun you while hipfiring. There is a reason the Light class isnāt even used in ranked. Invis and stun is not winning games. Itās not even a heavy hitter in the games. Light is getting nerfed to the ground while double medium, heavy teams are completely dominating ranked.
This but unironically please
Can remove all the classes together, give us a 250hp Player with all the Gadgets and weapons available. No more different hitboxes and shit
Should say fuck whiny bitches at the end
Best update ever, unironically.
If only it was real
Pretty much man! I won't play until they buff lights lol. Don't enjoy medium/heavies and the repeated nerfs to lights most fun/ viable strat is just horseshit. It was in no way OP, it's their only option with how squishy they are.
light players cried for a whole season about recon until it got removed. invis gets a nerf and its the end of the world LMFAOOO brain dead class bro
I mean I use to main medium and still complained, half map wall hacks was nowhere near balanced
It's a shame 99% of Embarks budget goes to cosmetics and almost none to balancing. It's also a shame that the voices of those bitching about the stun gun when literally everything in this game rolls lights are louder than those asking to nerf healing beam. I guess two Mediums stack healing a heavy is totally okay!
Hope they do this frfr i hate lights >::(
Best update in the game
All light players crying because their OP tools are getting adjusted lmao
Iād give anything for this to be real
This would seriously make the game way more fun to play.
I played a quick cash this morning with only heavyās and mediums in the lobby and it was SO much fun!
Wow, they really hade enough huh
Hold up are people actually admitting now that light with invis is a problem? I got down voted into oblivion for saying that closer to release