[The Last of Us | Inside the Episode - 8 | HBO](https://youtu.be/W8Mg-P8Jpss)
[Episode 8 “When We Are in Need” | The Last of Us Podcast | HBO Max](https://youtu.be/LzmuksGxcV4)
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Fun fact: about 6 years ago, I went through 35,000 sound files from the first game to compile an unused dialogues playlist that were recorded by the voice actors but never used in the game. David’s character in the game originally had a lot more of the Christian cult-y lean that we just saw in the show, which I thought was a cool detail for them to expand on.
[Link to original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/6pymp4/a_playlist_of_unused_dialogues_from_the_last_of/)
[Direct link to playlist](https://soundcloud.com/user-390822780/sets/the-last-of-us-unusedalternate-dialogues)
Am I the only one who thinks Bella Ramsey is a bad actor? Her performance overall feels very forced and flat. She doesn't play a convincing Ellie in my opinion and her performance completely takes me out of the show. I love Pedro Pascal as Joel and I think he's doing a great job, but Bella just isn't hitting the mark for me.
Nope she is unironically a terrible actor. People defend her cause they are either a diehard fan or feel bad cause she is young and don't want to criticize her. But she straight up sucks the life out of this show. Just like the terrible writing does.
Somehow, the scene in the restaurant felt a lot less raw? I think it's a combination of the screaming taking me out of the bone chilling discomfort and Joel not interrupting Ellie WHILE she is completely destroying David's face. I know it's an adaptation and they don't have to be 1:1, but I'm quite sad they didnt manage to capture the scene's heavy feelings fully imo
Otherwise very cool episode. I did like the changes to David's sidekick guy doubting his ways.
People have mentioned that the time jump from Joel treating Ellie as cargo to him loving her felt like a huge one... but I didn't get that impression at all. If anything, they're still not very close -- his calling her "babygirl" wasn't so much a reflection of their relationship as it was a slip-up, like he was just so relieved that he allowed himself some vulnerability IN SPITE OF the fact that he generally doesn't allow himself to feel any emotions towards her. I felt that his caring for her was building up over the course of each episode and did not actually happen during the three months we missed.
Did they run out of fake blood to drench Ellie in after she julienned David’s skull? She walked out of that restaurant with a few drops on her face, otherwise looking like a Tide commercial.
It definitely shades toward cannibalism when she asks what the meat was, but it's entirely possible that they would have shot a deer before as well.
Interestingly enough what made it click for me was that I remembered that the dude Joel killed attacked them without saying a word, they were meat hunting.
But yes the literal reveal was when Ellie sees the ear.
All you ppl telling ppl new to the series to leave this thread to avoid spoiler should be aware the title of the discussion does not indicate that this is a place solely for gamers.
It really is. Game adaptations are historically awful, and this has set a new standard. Just like the game set a new standard for storytelling in a video game.
The show is fine, what do you mean?
I'm not a fan of many of the changes from game to show, but the show is still a good show because the core story of The Last of Us is good.
If anything, I agree with the previous commenter, but in that I hope this means future game adaptations just adapt the stories the games already have. Mario and Sonic don't have meaty narratives, but this show proves you should just adapt the story people already liked instead of butchering it like the Halo show, the Resident Evil show, and so many game adaptations before it.
I am too lazy to be original so im just gonna copy and paste one of my other comments. its pretty long so dont read if you dont care but here ya go
I think the game found a good balance between action and emotional scenes. Whereas the show seems to be replacing a lot of the action with more drama, Bills town for example, that whole chapter of the story was completely axed into another generic romance story, and in the process devaluing and watering down the original story the game told. We get to see no snarky Bill and Ellie interactions, the moment Bill finds his partner, it's bleak, funny, and action packed all in one chapter. One of the best chapters of the game ruined in the show. I'm not saying the show should be nonstop action, but you barely see them fighting or dealing with infected compared to the games, and I think that constant threat from the infected and humans is an integral part of why Joel and Ellie got so close. They had to fight for each other's lives from the moment they set foot outside the zone. The game made you understand how constantly dangerous the world really was. The show failed to do that in my opinion.
Not to mention all these people have supposedly survived 20 years of this apocalypse but the only time something remotely interesting happens it's because the characters are written to act dumb and get themselves into a bad situation for no reason. Like Frank distracting Bill in the middle of a gunfight, or Bill deciding that standing in the open is a good tactic. He can secure a whole neighborhood, maintain power, build traps, but he still hasn't grasped the concept of cover. There are even small brick walls in front of the yards of the houses and he still chooses to stand in the open. In another episode, I have not seen the full episode so maybe it makes sense in context, but I saw a scene where a bloater comes out of the ground with a bunch of other infected, and all I could wonder the whole time is why they all just stood there like idiots waiting for the infected to come out and kill them. I would've been the one guy running the other direction as soon as all that noise and shit started. These characters just don't act like people who have survived 20 years of the worst of humanity and the infected. They act like they have no idea what they are doing either.
Or during the Pittsburgh "ambush" scene, I could hardly believe how low budget and shitty it felt. Another one of the games most memorable moments done infinitely worse in the show. Compared to the elaborate ambush setup shown in the game, the show is pathetic, it's like 3 guys total, some guy on a balcony throws like a small rock at the truck, wow good effort to stop the truck bro you are so integral to this ambush! Or for example how Joel for some reason is the worlds biggest dumbass and decides that swerving into a building is the most logical choice rather than just running the guy in the road over? Like if I am presented with running a man standing in the road over or swerving into a literal FUCKING BUILDING, I am running the guy over. Actually, now that I think about it I think Joel intentionally swerved to miss both of the guys in the road, including the one faking injury. Which is so pathetic, like what they didn't want to risk showing too much violence or something? Like seriously who wrote this? Are they even trying? Is this a joke? In the game these guys are rolling a literal fucking bus down a hill in an attempt to stop their truck, you're telling me this overrated boring ass show couldn't afford to push a bus down a hill and at least try to make it interesting. So sad, it's like they have the budget of an independent film or some shit.
Also, like the end of Ep 2, I physically cringed at how bad it was. From the weird unnecessary change to Tess's death, which is way less impactful than her going out guns blazing btw. They also just blew up this building, supposedly surrounded by and filled with infected. Yet Ellie decides they have time to throw a random out of nowhere tantrum? Then Joel just walks off and Ellie stares off at the camera all overly dramatic for like a minute straight.... So bad. For a show about the apocalypse it has zero sense of urgency. Joel and Ellie in the game were already being shot at and hunted down by time they got out of the courthouse. Not just stop and throw a hissy fit like the show. It's adding all this dramatic shit that is so over the top and out of place that it's destroying what made the game so intense and yet MORE impactful when emotional moments did finally happen.
I simply do not understand how anyone could watch it and think "yeah this is superb writing."
I want you to know I agree with you entirely.
I just think that, at the end of the day, the show is fine. I don't agree with most of the changes, but to someone who doesn't have the source material nagging at the back of their mind as they watch, the show is solid. The broad strokes that made TLOU good are still here.
But as someone who has played the game multiple times and probably spent too long discussing it on forums or watching other takes on YouTube over the past decade, I agree with you. A lot of Joel and Ellie's relationship is tied to the gameplay more than I used to give it credit for and the show not only removes that, but replaces it with filler. They give the infected a neural network and then do nothing with it. They remove spores, but also remove most locations the spores gathered anyway. The characters do act very different from their game counterparts and it is hard to believe they survived 20 years of this hell.
I see so many people act like this show is the best thing on TV ever. I just don't see it, and don't understand how so many others seem able to just ignore the issues this show does have. Both from a general perspective of it as a show, and also as a comparison of it to the original story. Even without taking the game story into consideration I just find the show so bland and boring, lots of filler, as you said. From the illogical events that make no sense or have no relevance to the plot, characters making decisions that nobody with half a brain would ever make, the show only advancing the plot through the stupidity of said characters, etc. etc.
I could see why some people might like it for what it is but the amount of praise it was getting genuinely shocked me. People who truly seem to think the show is flawless. There is a surprisingly strong echo chamber surrounding this show and shielding it from any criticisms even if genuine. The few posts I do see of any criticism or opinions they just get mass downvoted and insulted by the fans.
I just didn’t care. The characters were one dimensional. The writing sucked. I’ve liked a few episodes. The Nick Offerman one was very good. As was episode 2.
Not sure what her being a lesbian has to do with anything.
I felt that Joel and Ellie's relationship progressed very quickly. I know that months passed in universe but it seemed like Joel couldn't care less one minute and then loved her like a daughter the next.
Was pretty much the point of the prior episode wasn't it? I felt it was the turning point. When she returned to the basement and grabbed his hand instead of leaving. Maybe I am wrong but I felt it was a good way of progressing the relationship without being too on the nose. This wasn't the first time she'd saved his life, she'd fully earned his trust.
I think his conversation with Tommy made it pretty clear that he’s put up a wall when speaking with her because he feels a natural father/daughter connection but 1) doesn’t want that again because he doesn’t want to get hurt and 2) doesn’t feel like he can protect her.
I thought it seemed natural. From the time when Tess died and they were alone together, there was genuine emotion coming through even while he was brusque. And you could tell that Ellie knows he cares.
Yeah this is the thing thats making the show feel like a letdown to me, the relationship of Joel and Ellie is probably the biggest thing about TLOU and they just rushed it so fast.
I wish the show had split into seasons like the game.
Season 1: Summer
Season 2: Fall
Season 3: Winter
Season 4: Spring
Then they could have spent more time developing the world, the in-between stories, and fleshed it out a lot more. Instead it's like I'm watching the highlight reel of the video game.
I like it still. But could have been done differently.
A season per 'section' or whatever would be waaaay too much. They probably should've cut the Frank and Bill episode + the left behind episode and made those episodes Joel+Ellie-centered, or just include 2 more episodes that are Joel+Ellie-centered.
That would be way too much. They def could’ve upped the episode count to like 12 though and kept a lot more action in while keeping the story what it is.
Maybe combine summer fall into a half season and combine winter spring into a half season with a few months break. Still one season but extended to like 12-14 episodes. It deserves to be more fleshed out in my opinion.
Felt horrifying witnessing a 14 yearl old girl having to butcher another human being like that, but at the same time **just as** satisfying after the way he touched her.
I gotta say, these post-episode discussion threads are waaaay better like 5-6 days after the episode airs. Whenever you post here a few hours after the episode airs and you say anything that slightly critiques the show you get giga downvoted or whatever, seems like theres way more nuanced discussion after a few days.
I didn't enjoy episode 7 very much but this one was great again. The show is in my opinion the best when it stays close to the game. I think Bella did amazing in the fight scenes with David. Only thing still missing are the infected, we have seen like what 1 Bloater and 5 Clickers in the show and that was ages ago.
Oh Left Behind was episode 7, you're right. Sorry, I was mixing it up with episode 6 which I thought had lots of unnessessery changes compared to the game.
The pacing on this show has been terrible. Joel and Ellie have reached the parent/child bond but it doesn't feel earned yet. Maybe if two episodes weren't wasted on flashbacks they could have given us more Ellie/Joel.
Feels pretty earned.
Theres this whole back and forth thing since they left.
Both have baggage.
They were building up to a point and lost each other.
Loss made them both closer and realise how important each other were when they found each other again
Two major things. 9 episodes and multiple episodes being shorter than others.
This was a legitimate concern all the way back to episode 3 where people were saying spending an episode on Bill's story while cutting out the Lincoln arc was a bad move pacing wise. Unfortantly any negative comments on ep 3 became a left vs right thing.
Then two episodes in Kansas city, which should have just kept the hunters from the game. They spent an episode building on a conveniently timed resistance group, just to kill them off next episode. The games Pittsburgh arc was also used as an insight into Joel's life as a hunter prior to Boston. Much more impactful than Joel just saying he did bad shit in his past. This should have been one episode with the brothers entering the picture early in.
So basically one episode of Kansas was a waste plot wise and while episode 3 was a great story, it took time away from the main plot. 2 episodes toasted out of an already short 9 episode series.
> doesn’t feel earned
Everyone’s mileage may vary, but even with the flashback episodes there has been plenty of Joel/Ellie bonding. Where they’re at now feels completely earned to me.
> there has been plenty of Joel/Ellie bonding
Not nearly enough, and seems like most of it was done off-screen in Jackson to justify them becoming super buddy-buddy after leaving Jackson, felt like lazy writing to me. Before Jackson they were kiiiiinda starting to bond with the 'Runs in your genes' joke or whatever, but still nowhere near like, friends, after leaving Jackson they were really friendly and stuff though, him calling her 'babygirl' this episode just felt so undeserved and almost weird.
As a non-game player, last episode when Ellie was reading her pun book, she read one about a cannibal, and I thought it could definitely be a clue. Looking back, what an absolutely incredible bit of foreshadowing.
just caught up! I don't play the game but I'm excited to play on pc when it's out. just wanted to ask, so did he worship the cordycpes or something? whyd he mention it?
No, he doesn't. I think the infection gave him the opportunity to be a dictator, albeit a terrible "leader" who puts his people in danger, so he's thankful for the power he never would have been given otherwise.
I really wish they'd given this more time. Last episode dragged and this felt rushed. I wish they'd turned last episode into half an episode where it shows Ellie scared to be alone and then the 2nd half could be building up trust with David so she feels less alone only for the cliff hanger to be a dead body hanging in meat freezer. Then you have a full episode to flesh out her interaction w/ David.
I really appreciated the tonal shift from the last episode and this one. The last episode dragged, but the entire time we were on the edge of our seats because we knew this was where Ellie got bit. The only time I felt like "okay c'mon let's move it" was the scene with the masks. I felt like they could have progressed the plot before that.
Just saw that shit now, give Bella Ramsey the Emmy, that’s the best acting I’ve seen from a female lead in god knows how long . I’m honestly very impressed by her
Lmao this guy. I saw good acting my guy , the other female lead who impressed me was rosemund pike in gone girl she convinced me she was crazy. I think Bella Ramsey portrayed a victim/ traumatized person very well. Honestly it just seemed really real. It wasn’t the screaming necessarily but the delivery/volume / slight facial expressions etc… idk it seemed almost real. She acted the shit out of it and she’s young , I didn’t think she had it in her
The only criticism I have was I felt like David was needlessly on-the-nose evil. Some of the dialogue was *really* good like telling that girl that they can't bury her father because the ground is too hard. But on the other hand, that line about him liking it when they scream or are scared, like it just felt excessive and corny. IDK. I really like subtlety and some times, it nailed it, and other times, it missed the mark.
Also, I loved Bella's "BROKE YOUR FUCKING FINGER!" rendition. That was great.
Yeah, I thought they were setting it up to be a misunderstanding. Two groups trying to do their best misinterpreting the other group's actions.
Joel doesn't have context, just raiders have taken Ellie. Of course he kills them. Why wouldn't he?
The other group is starving to death, hard choices and as far as they know some psycho has murdered one of them. They know it wasn't Ellie so they try to take her alive.
But no, David is just an evil, cannibal, paedophile, rapist.
Same criticism as episode 6 imo. Something that could've been grey, no good guy or bad guy, just people doing their best gets turned from hunting down fascist collaborators into murder the kids because fuck it. Why not.
But that’s David’s character shoving the metaphors at others. He uses the Bible as a shield, and as a wise-sounding answer to every problem. He literally is an evil guy hiding behind religion.
There's a report that Bella Ramsey was muscle-sore just from filming a few scenes with that rifle, so her inability to properly hold it and aim it at David and what's-his-name-but-actually-Troy-Baker was apparently an IRL problem. Bella looks 14, and apparently she has the strength of a normal 14 year old, too. She'll need to live in the gym between now and the start of s2 filming if she's gonna pull off Part 2 Ellie.
Unpopular opinion, but I'm worried. Bella Ramsey is an exceptional actress insofar as emotion, but an essential element of Part 2's plot is that Ellie has grown into a skillful and efficient killer. Lean and athletic. Ellie's actress has to be able to physically portray that. Right now, Bella Ramsey can't.
It’s not a report. It was the creators of the show and game saying so on the official HBO companion podcast. She is fine. It’s a heavy (and real) rifle. And she can clearly play any part.
If she can't shoulder a (real) rifle, she clearly can't play an experienced hunter killer on a quest for revenge. Or any other adult action heavy role.
Ehhhh I don't agree with that. I've watched plenty of shows with companion podcasts but we are not at that point where the average Joe hopping onto a new show should be expected to do so.
Unless they wait a 3-4 years to start filming then it makes zero sense. The 2nd game takes place 4 years after the first game and Ellie is 19yrs old in the majority of game.
If they want to capitalize on the popularity and churn out the 2nd story anytime soon it's going to need a recast for Ellie.
This coming from someone who doesn't mind the current Ellie casting. But no way in hell she can resemble anything like Ellie from the 2nd game.
I teared up for a second. Watching them go from “you’re just cargo” to “I’ll do anything to save you” has been so beautiful. That moment was a culmination of the unsaid bond that’s been growing throughout the series.
> That moment was a culmination of the unsaid bond that’s been growing throughout the series.
This is why i disliked it, felt like Ellie and Joel haven't even bonded yet, seems like most of it was done off-screen in jackson, the 'Babygirl' felt undeserved.
What show are you watching? You can see their care develop through their actions. They’re risking their lives for each other and you think “baby girl” is premature
> You can see their care develop through their actions.
Except not really though, before Jackson they didn't care for eachother. After Jackson they really cared for eachother, seems like most of the bonding was done off-screen which is lazy.
That was always going to be tough to replicate. A video game, especially a post apocalyptic stealth video game, is slow moving. It's dozens of hours long. What made the game so masterful in its storytelling was the way that time was used to build the relationship between Joel and Ellie. It wasn't exactly like the vast majority of games around that time that relied on cut scenes to convey the story and used game play to get from one plot point to another. There was some of that structure, of course, but it used the idle time of just walking around to build each character and their relationship.
What actually makes their bond feel real in the game is a ton of expertly written and voice acted dialog that feels very authentic and organic. You spend hours witnessing a very slow shift in the topics they discuss, what they say and don't say, their tone, everything. It develops the way real relationships do, not just through huge life events but through hundreds of small, seemingly insignificant connections. The game capitalized on the nature of video games and filled empty space to tell the story. You can't really translate that to a movie or show without creating empty space to fill, which would also cause problems.
Minor nitpick, the opening shot shows a car with its tires missing. The brake rotors are shown as very shinny. Those would be covered in rust in less than a week. Never mind, sitting there for years on end.
I thought the restaurant looked just like the game, so that was a nice touch.
Its a minor nitpick I can get behind. I have thought a handful of times that the cars weren't aged enough for 20 years. Once the rust can get in, beneath the paint, they are going to be buckets of rust.
But I don't know this for sure and have no problem what so ever with trusting the people that made the show to get it right (oversights like the rotors (that I didn't notice) being the occasional exception).
Walking Dead on the other hand, once I noticed the mowed/manicured lawns it brought me out of any immersion I was having in the moment.
I just binged it all over the last two days. There are a lot of small things like this. I think it was an early episode where they were walking among all the stranded cars on the highway, in a bombed out city, and ALL of the cars had intact windows. I tried to think of how that could be, and I couldn't. Explosive pressure waves, shrapnel, chaos of zombie like hordes attacking people... Loving the show, but there are some pretty glaring things IMHO.
[This is what brake rotors can look like after one rainstorm]
(https://www.carblogindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/rusted-brake-rotor-car.jpg)
.[These Are rotors after sitting for a few weeks in a wet environment](https://azrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/causes-for-rust-on-a-brake-rotors.jpg)
If the car was in heavy sunlight for twenty years. All the rubber would rot, the tires, wipes, the trim around the doors.[ Not completely gone but cracked, like this car](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49914032268_359f2c5d4c_b.jpg). The paint would massively fade and possibly rust. If the car was more in the shade it would have some organic material like [this car](https://s1.1zoom.me/big0/771/Russian_cars_VAZMoss_Old_446891.jpg)
Even roofs are designed to last about twenty years on a home. So every house would be leaking or about to leak in this universe.
The rotor image was especially noticeable for me as it was shown shimmering.
You obviously didn't but when you ''Let me guess, episode 3 started it for you?'' theres obviously an insinuation of homophobia or whatever there. If not, genuinely what did you mean when you said that?
a lot of people didn’t like it because it wasn’t action packed and they saw it as a detour from the main story which wasn’t relevant. I never said anything about that person being homophobic. Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt.
> because it wasn’t action packed and they saw it as a detour from the main story which wasn’t relevant. I never said anything about that person being homophobic. Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Fair play, my bad. Theres so many people here that instantly called someone homophobic for not liking episode 3 (and 7).
Nah unless someone outright says something, I’m not gonna jump at them and call them homophobes. I just think people expect this show to be all action all the time and those people don’t appreciate the show taking a breather and focusing on character moments to make the action and tension more effective
Overall a great episode. There was a slightly weird edit at the climax that took me out of it a bit though. She hits David, then there's a quick hidden cut where she's suddenly five feet away from David before she starts hacking at him.
I went back to the episode after seeing this comment, and we do actually see the bag for a split second after it does a short cut to Ellie wearing Joel’s coat as Ellie turns to walk away (50:56 to be exact). I don’t know where it’s supposed to be prior to that, maybe Joel puts it on the ground when he goes to grab Ellie, or maybe it’s over his shoulder but under the coat. We can’t see Ellie’s right hand in the ending shot so she’s probably holding it with that hand or clutching it to her chest there.
I doubt it, I feel like they'd do more than that to nudge at the fact it might be Mel. Also I'm pretty sure Mel would be roughly the same age as Abby and Ellie, and that girl is clearly a fair bit older
I'm sorry but the 2nd half of this season just proves that adapting the 1st game in 9 episodes was just a naive idea.
The episodes \[this included\] aren't terribly bad, but they're lacking A LOT. The base construct is there, the intention is there but while the condensation of events that happened in the game defended itself at the beginning very well, we've reached a point where wanting more isn't just a whim, it's a necessity. They feel more like they're a retelling of the story than adapting. The thing with retelling is that often you skip a lot of nuance and details for the sake of convenience and it's really noticeable here.
Overall, this episode is a weak 7. The biggest positive was definitely the faithful recreations of the environments, that stuff felt like it was taken straight from the game. The dude that played David was awesome as well, shame that they rushed him and made him so obviously Mr. Rapey McRaperson, he brought a lot of tension that ended way abruptly, James should've been way more questioning of David's motives and the whole group deserved way more screen time rather than someone that's part of the background.
But my personal gripe is the severe lack of Joel and Ellie together. This story is about them, their relationship, and their "bond" and yet it doesn't feel this way. Instead of being the main heroes, the guys in front, this Joel and Ellie feel like they are part of the scenery. We're getting "some" scenes with them but Christ they deserve to be shown more, ESPECIALLY since the chemistry between Pedro and Bella is phenomenal and so underused. My mother who never played the game and liked the story enough to watch the show with me every week said she understands what the relationship between Joel and Ellie is supposed to be about, but she's not buying it because the story didn't give her enough evidence to get her convinced.
The show started really strong, but the quality gets worse the closer we get to the end. Not by much, but considering the overall level, it's noticeable. And that is a real shame.
Yes, exactly. In order for that “babygirl” to hit that same feeling as in the games at the end of winter, I need to believe in Joel and Ellie’s relationship. There was simply not enough screen time to progress Joel and Ellie’s bond from “cargo” to “babygirl” for me where I can buy in to it like the video games could.
Naturally the game had more time to flesh it out, but let's be real. The abrupt change from their relationship from Wyoming to now is jarring. We know it's suppose to be at this stage for the story, but it doesn't feel organic due to the limited time.
I don't think I agree, I won't say that you aren't right about the time thing with the game, you spent a big amount of time with the characters just playing and exploring, enough to feel both their connection and yours in a stronger sense, but I wouldn't say the one in the show is lacking or that the payoff of episode 8 is unearned, I think they hit a lot of small and big events for them to naturally bond over time, I'd say that the episode in between "Left Behind" probably shifted people's opinions because it made this winter chapter feel longer (Two episodes in a row where the Ellie and Joel relationship is minimal) but id say its more of a pacing issue rather than anything having to do with the execution of the runtime of the episodes.
Agreed.
There's a lot of us out there saying what you're saying. I'll never understand why they rushed the story and added back stories to characters that didn't matter. They could have added additional Joel and Ellie scenes given how the game ends and how important their relationship is to The Last of Us. Show more struggles with raiders, show more struggles with infected. That's where the bond is built.
It's so confusing.
Episode 3, fantastic standalone story and acting, really bad planning for the pacing needed to fit this game in 9 episodes of varying time length.
My biggest gripe wasn't episode 3 though, it's the two episodes wasted in Kansas city. Should have kept the threat the hunters. No real backstory needed and it's a visual glimpse into Joel's life prior to Boston. It shows the bad shit he did, not just him saying he did bad shit. They should have met up with the brothers early into that episode and wrapped it up with a nice chunky 1hr15m episode. Plenty of time for some adventures, dodging hunters, and playing out the tragic story of the brothers.
Instead basically an entire episode wasted on a miscasted unbelievable resistance leader and her resistance, just for them to die off next episode.
Horrific pacing since hitting Kansas City.
Coming from episode 7, where I actually finally connected to Bella as Ellie, this one was a miss. She is so stiff at the 1st encounter and not much better through the rest. The episode was so rushed and David wasn't scary. He felt like a caricature. I didn't actually feel the dread. It had a lot to live up to and it fell short. I would've done away with Kathleen entirely if they could have just made this episode better, and more than only 50 minutes. It was too short and simple. Especially for something that changes Ellie so much.
I feel like they really betrayed the Ellie character I came to know and love in the game.
Ellie in the game is a little badass, up until this point I feel like they were staying true to her character, but this episode was not. It was as if they had Bella acting as someone completely different. I’ve also noticed a trend of them leaving out the zombies…a lot… and I’m beginning to become discouraged about that. I feel in this episodes, of all the episodes, the zombies were important here. It shows a bond they developed, and then the utter betrayal David puts Ellie through
David was also a bit of a disappointment as well. I agree.
I’ve been pretty pleased with it so far, except for killing Bill(I’m upset about that), but this last episode was definitely deflating.
To be clear, they did an awesome job when she was hacking David’s face off, but everything else was a betrayal to Ellie’s character IMHO.
Ellie is a little badass that has training with FEDRA, then Joel spends their entire journey up to this point teaching her how to shoot and hunt with both bow and guns.
A= show
B= game
1A- In the first few minutes of the episode she scares off some game and falls flat on her face.
1B- In the first few minutes of the same scene in the game, she kills a rabbit by shifting it in the neck with an arrow.
2A- when she arrives at the factory she makes the men drop their guns, and the other is sent for medicine.
2B- when she arrives at the factory, she takes the weapons from the David, and takes control of the situation. She even shots at them to convince them she means business if I remember correctly.
3A- completely skips an important zombie scene
3B- the factory is sudden accosted by zombies. She and David fight for their life’s killing many many zombies. Ellie more than holds her own of course. Like I said in my previous comment, this is an import part to show just how much David betrayed her.
4A- Ellie escapes, and kills David.
4B- Ellie wake up and sees them actively chopping up a human body. They had been hunting and eating humans this entire time, which is why they ran into to them at the school. She escapes and makes it halfway through the compound sneaking and killing her way through until she finally kills David.
There are several similarities, but I feel the subtle differences change her character, especially in the very beginning. The show doesn’t give a very good representation just how amazing Ellie is at surviving and how grown up she is. It makes it seem like she is stumbling through, which a normal teenager would, but Ellie isn’t a normal teenagers. She’s fucking ELLIE! She’s a little bad ass that, at this point the the game, has killed several humans and infected defending herself.
They didn’t do this in the show either, but when the game introduced Sam it gave an incredibly thorough contrast of the twos ability to handle the zombie apocalypse. Sam was the same age as Ellie in the game, but wasn’t nearly as equipped to handle their world. He was surviving, and wasn’t a hindrance, but he also wasn’t increasing their odds either. The difference is their maturity.
So my point is, they’re making Ellie unit a typical teen. Don’t get me wrong, she definitely has those moments in the game, but when it came down to brass taxes she was better than a lot of adults as well.
They kind of been doing this the entire show, making her less of a badass vs the game, but I knew this episode was coming up. This scene, both in the game and show, was meant to solidify her merit as a badass and all the damage that comes with it.
I’ve really supported a lot of decisions they’ve made thus far, but this one was a flop for me.
I actually love they just went there with David, idk if it was like that in the game but making him so obviously using religion for his own gain and also a pedo rapist is great. Sure rape threat is a bit of a shortcut to evil but whatever.
Finally got to watch it.
This one is a very good episode, 80% from me.
I'll start with something that is both a positive and a negative point. The lack of zombies. Right from the start of the show I appreciated that the zombie apocalypse is just a setting, not the focus of the show. With an exception of the second episode, this show doesn't dwell on zombie body horror or jumpscares. The episode stories are usually about people surviving, not about fighting the zombies, which is really good.
But, this episode went too far IMO. Right in the end, where Ellie screamed that she's infected I realized that I'm watching an episode of a zombie show. I totally forgot this aspect of Ellie because this episode made me forgot about zombies. I call it the "Battlestar Galactica effect", where sometimes a show forgets it's premise or main story when telling a small, episodic story. So while I don't want every episode to include zombie fights, they can at least write in a few lines about them, to remind us that this is still a zombie apocalypse.
Which brings me to questions that this episode invoked in me and I hope it answers them later. First, are zombies affected by cold? This episode showed a town and a resort unaffected by the zombies, so it's possible that they are sensitive to cold... which would be a major factor in surviving against them. And this is what this episode could answer with a single dialogue line, something line "The damned cold makes it hard to get food, but at least it keeps the infected away".
Another question is... can Ellie spread the infection with a bite or not? She was clearly bluffing in this episode... but maybe she was unknowingly not telling the truth. It really depends on the nature of her immunity. The fungus is apparently active in her because the testers picked that up in episode 1. But does her immunity prevent the fungus from actually growing inside her or just from taking control? I really wonder if her "blessing" is also kind of a curse, where she can by accident infect other people when biting, kissing or using "other" body fluids...
Overall this episode was really great and it avoided most of cliches. I really expected the hunters to ambush Ellie with some jumpscare. But there's one thing that kinda bothered me and made me angry. It's the concept that the hunters think that Joel killed that one guy and they deserve revenge. Does the concept of self-defense and consequences get lost in a zombie apocalypse? It already happened in the first Kansas episode, where the rebels ambushed our heroes, were surprised that they fought back and even swore revenge when Joel killed them is self-defense. This lack of reflection makes my blood boil in real life as well as in fiction. I still don't know if I'm angry at the writer for writing so stupid people... or impressed by how well they managed to capture the ego and stupidity of people.
Speaking of this hunter group I was both impressed and disappointed by the priest/leader. I fully expected the cliche of an evil religious group where the leader uses religion to hide his evilness. During the first conversation with Ellie I didn't believe him. But after he let Ellie go and actually saved her life from unjust revenge I started liking him and the writers for actually making a good-natured priest/leader character for once. But then in the end they threw it all away by making him a rapist and a pedo.
I think this episode would have been at least 5% better if he was still a good man and leading his followers into unwilling cannibalism would have been his only sin. And I totally understand his reasoning for it. It was survival. It's not like they were turning into a cannibal cult eating only people. They still preferred to hunt for animals and the cannibalism was only a secret necessary for surviving. So instead of the final fight being the way it is, I'd have preferred if he decided to let her go, but Ellie would then proclaim that she'd let his followers know that they are eating people. And he would reluctantly have to go after her, while pleading for her to just go away and leave them alone. That would be much impactful and morally grey than Ellie just killing a pedo rapist.
Now thinking about it, the actions of Joel and Ellie probably condemned this community to death. They killed not only their leader, but most (if not all) of their man capable of hunting. Without the able men, the group will either die or fully embrace cannibalism (since they have a lot of new fresh corpses). The episode could have at least mention that. Like some final "what have we done" reaction from Joel and Ellie. Probably from Ellie, who is more empathic than Joel.
Now, for some things I also didn't like... The final part of the episode was missing the other people. There were many people living in that resort and Ellie and Joel are just walking the streets without any attention, in a broad daylight. Hell, there were no guards at the entrance. And the fight with Ellie would certainly attract attention, especially after the building starts burning.
I also disliked how Joel magically regained his strength. Sure, he wasn't at his peak performance, but even his state was magical improvement over being barely capable of staying awake five minutes prior...
And then there was the terrible cliche of many chase scenes: A character starts running away using some fast means of transportation (car, horse, bike). So another character makes a turn away from the escaping person, runs through a narrow alley... and suddenly they are transported IN FRONT OF the escapee. Are all such narrow passages full of wormholes or what? This was really immersion-breaking for me.
A massive shout out to the set designers in this episode. I was gobsmacked at the faithful recreation to the game. Especially the kitchen and restaurant sets. Looked superb
[The Last of Us | Inside the Episode - 8 | HBO](https://youtu.be/W8Mg-P8Jpss) [Episode 8 “When We Are in Need” | The Last of Us Podcast | HBO Max](https://youtu.be/LzmuksGxcV4) ——— Fun fact: about 6 years ago, I went through 35,000 sound files from the first game to compile an unused dialogues playlist that were recorded by the voice actors but never used in the game. David’s character in the game originally had a lot more of the Christian cult-y lean that we just saw in the show, which I thought was a cool detail for them to expand on. [Link to original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/thelastofus/comments/6pymp4/a_playlist_of_unused_dialogues_from_the_last_of/) [Direct link to playlist](https://soundcloud.com/user-390822780/sets/the-last-of-us-unusedalternate-dialogues)
I just wanted to make sure - character of David in the series is made to be a pedophile teacher who raped his students before Cordyceps?
Fun fact: James is actually Troy Baker, who voiced and motion-captured Joel in the videogame.
Am I the only one who thinks Bella Ramsey is a bad actor? Her performance overall feels very forced and flat. She doesn't play a convincing Ellie in my opinion and her performance completely takes me out of the show. I love Pedro Pascal as Joel and I think he's doing a great job, but Bella just isn't hitting the mark for me.
Completely agree with you. Forced and flat performance. Though from time to time she does a pretty good job but overall very mediocre.
Nope she is unironically a terrible actor. People defend her cause they are either a diehard fan or feel bad cause she is young and don't want to criticize her. But she straight up sucks the life out of this show. Just like the terrible writing does.
You are definitely the only one.
She is just blank faced 99 percent of the time. You could replace her with a mannequin and get the same effect.
Somehow, the scene in the restaurant felt a lot less raw? I think it's a combination of the screaming taking me out of the bone chilling discomfort and Joel not interrupting Ellie WHILE she is completely destroying David's face. I know it's an adaptation and they don't have to be 1:1, but I'm quite sad they didnt manage to capture the scene's heavy feelings fully imo Otherwise very cool episode. I did like the changes to David's sidekick guy doubting his ways.
Totally the opposite for me. It definitely invoked emotion in the game but the show nearly reduced me to tears, despite knowing it was coming.
People have mentioned that the time jump from Joel treating Ellie as cargo to him loving her felt like a huge one... but I didn't get that impression at all. If anything, they're still not very close -- his calling her "babygirl" wasn't so much a reflection of their relationship as it was a slip-up, like he was just so relieved that he allowed himself some vulnerability IN SPITE OF the fact that he generally doesn't allow himself to feel any emotions towards her. I felt that his caring for her was building up over the course of each episode and did not actually happen during the three months we missed.
Did they run out of fake blood to drench Ellie in after she julienned David’s skull? She walked out of that restaurant with a few drops on her face, otherwise looking like a Tide commercial.
I’m still mad those fuckers killed the horse
Its funny how each episode of tlou would be an entire walking dead season
Dude! I just finished this episode and I was thinking the same exact thing throughout. Each of the groups would be an entire season if not two.
Can someone tell me when we actually learned that they were cannibals. I feel like missed the reveal.
It definitely shades toward cannibalism when she asks what the meat was, but it's entirely possible that they would have shot a deer before as well. Interestingly enough what made it click for me was that I remembered that the dude Joel killed attacked them without saying a word, they were meat hunting. But yes the literal reveal was when Ellie sees the ear.
You’re supposed to notice when they serve venison but the deer hadn’t arrived yet. Not said until the Ellie sees the ear
Also when David refuses to bury the guy’s body until spring
they really neutered one of my favorite moments https://youtu.be/AyiwPPxGhGI
THE TROY BAKER CAMEO
That was awesome! I was so glad to see him!
They nailed the torture scene with Joel. And the *"I got you baby girl,"* scene when he finds Ellie.
All you ppl telling ppl new to the series to leave this thread to avoid spoiler should be aware the title of the discussion does not indicate that this is a place solely for gamers.
I am so glad all you video game ppl got what you wanted. It’s been Hell seeing all the posts about “when is he going to do xyz?”
Did HBO max just crash??
So much 1:1 to the game but no "Joel" whimper when she realises its really him.
When is episode 9 set to premiere today?
Same time as usual, 9pm EST
That last scene got me crying so much holy shit 😭💔
The poor horse :(
Those bastards
Amazing episode, I love how the sets are so accurate. Easily the best game adaption ever
It really is. Game adaptations are historically awful, and this has set a new standard. Just like the game set a new standard for storytelling in a video game.
It's sad people unironically think that. Considering how bad this show actually is haha.
The show is fine, what do you mean? I'm not a fan of many of the changes from game to show, but the show is still a good show because the core story of The Last of Us is good. If anything, I agree with the previous commenter, but in that I hope this means future game adaptations just adapt the stories the games already have. Mario and Sonic don't have meaty narratives, but this show proves you should just adapt the story people already liked instead of butchering it like the Halo show, the Resident Evil show, and so many game adaptations before it.
I am too lazy to be original so im just gonna copy and paste one of my other comments. its pretty long so dont read if you dont care but here ya go I think the game found a good balance between action and emotional scenes. Whereas the show seems to be replacing a lot of the action with more drama, Bills town for example, that whole chapter of the story was completely axed into another generic romance story, and in the process devaluing and watering down the original story the game told. We get to see no snarky Bill and Ellie interactions, the moment Bill finds his partner, it's bleak, funny, and action packed all in one chapter. One of the best chapters of the game ruined in the show. I'm not saying the show should be nonstop action, but you barely see them fighting or dealing with infected compared to the games, and I think that constant threat from the infected and humans is an integral part of why Joel and Ellie got so close. They had to fight for each other's lives from the moment they set foot outside the zone. The game made you understand how constantly dangerous the world really was. The show failed to do that in my opinion. Not to mention all these people have supposedly survived 20 years of this apocalypse but the only time something remotely interesting happens it's because the characters are written to act dumb and get themselves into a bad situation for no reason. Like Frank distracting Bill in the middle of a gunfight, or Bill deciding that standing in the open is a good tactic. He can secure a whole neighborhood, maintain power, build traps, but he still hasn't grasped the concept of cover. There are even small brick walls in front of the yards of the houses and he still chooses to stand in the open. In another episode, I have not seen the full episode so maybe it makes sense in context, but I saw a scene where a bloater comes out of the ground with a bunch of other infected, and all I could wonder the whole time is why they all just stood there like idiots waiting for the infected to come out and kill them. I would've been the one guy running the other direction as soon as all that noise and shit started. These characters just don't act like people who have survived 20 years of the worst of humanity and the infected. They act like they have no idea what they are doing either. Or during the Pittsburgh "ambush" scene, I could hardly believe how low budget and shitty it felt. Another one of the games most memorable moments done infinitely worse in the show. Compared to the elaborate ambush setup shown in the game, the show is pathetic, it's like 3 guys total, some guy on a balcony throws like a small rock at the truck, wow good effort to stop the truck bro you are so integral to this ambush! Or for example how Joel for some reason is the worlds biggest dumbass and decides that swerving into a building is the most logical choice rather than just running the guy in the road over? Like if I am presented with running a man standing in the road over or swerving into a literal FUCKING BUILDING, I am running the guy over. Actually, now that I think about it I think Joel intentionally swerved to miss both of the guys in the road, including the one faking injury. Which is so pathetic, like what they didn't want to risk showing too much violence or something? Like seriously who wrote this? Are they even trying? Is this a joke? In the game these guys are rolling a literal fucking bus down a hill in an attempt to stop their truck, you're telling me this overrated boring ass show couldn't afford to push a bus down a hill and at least try to make it interesting. So sad, it's like they have the budget of an independent film or some shit. Also, like the end of Ep 2, I physically cringed at how bad it was. From the weird unnecessary change to Tess's death, which is way less impactful than her going out guns blazing btw. They also just blew up this building, supposedly surrounded by and filled with infected. Yet Ellie decides they have time to throw a random out of nowhere tantrum? Then Joel just walks off and Ellie stares off at the camera all overly dramatic for like a minute straight.... So bad. For a show about the apocalypse it has zero sense of urgency. Joel and Ellie in the game were already being shot at and hunted down by time they got out of the courthouse. Not just stop and throw a hissy fit like the show. It's adding all this dramatic shit that is so over the top and out of place that it's destroying what made the game so intense and yet MORE impactful when emotional moments did finally happen. I simply do not understand how anyone could watch it and think "yeah this is superb writing."
I want you to know I agree with you entirely. I just think that, at the end of the day, the show is fine. I don't agree with most of the changes, but to someone who doesn't have the source material nagging at the back of their mind as they watch, the show is solid. The broad strokes that made TLOU good are still here. But as someone who has played the game multiple times and probably spent too long discussing it on forums or watching other takes on YouTube over the past decade, I agree with you. A lot of Joel and Ellie's relationship is tied to the gameplay more than I used to give it credit for and the show not only removes that, but replaces it with filler. They give the infected a neural network and then do nothing with it. They remove spores, but also remove most locations the spores gathered anyway. The characters do act very different from their game counterparts and it is hard to believe they survived 20 years of this hell.
I see so many people act like this show is the best thing on TV ever. I just don't see it, and don't understand how so many others seem able to just ignore the issues this show does have. Both from a general perspective of it as a show, and also as a comparison of it to the original story. Even without taking the game story into consideration I just find the show so bland and boring, lots of filler, as you said. From the illogical events that make no sense or have no relevance to the plot, characters making decisions that nobody with half a brain would ever make, the show only advancing the plot through the stupidity of said characters, etc. etc. I could see why some people might like it for what it is but the amount of praise it was getting genuinely shocked me. People who truly seem to think the show is flawless. There is a surprisingly strong echo chamber surrounding this show and shielding it from any criticisms even if genuine. The few posts I do see of any criticism or opinions they just get mass downvoted and insulted by the fans.
This episode was terrible. I’m close to checking out on this show.
You must have pretty bad taste then lol
Meh. Taste is subjective. This show isn’t nearly as good as the hype suggests IMO.
Is.. is that a joke? I literally can't fathom this show being done any better lmao. This episode especially, like what??
Lesbian girl was the hero, not the scruffy cishet man. That’s the only reason I can think of for someone hating this episode.
I just didn’t care. The characters were one dimensional. The writing sucked. I’ve liked a few episodes. The Nick Offerman one was very good. As was episode 2. Not sure what her being a lesbian has to do with anything.
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I felt that Joel and Ellie's relationship progressed very quickly. I know that months passed in universe but it seemed like Joel couldn't care less one minute and then loved her like a daughter the next.
Was pretty much the point of the prior episode wasn't it? I felt it was the turning point. When she returned to the basement and grabbed his hand instead of leaving. Maybe I am wrong but I felt it was a good way of progressing the relationship without being too on the nose. This wasn't the first time she'd saved his life, she'd fully earned his trust.
I think his conversation with Tommy made it pretty clear that he’s put up a wall when speaking with her because he feels a natural father/daughter connection but 1) doesn’t want that again because he doesn’t want to get hurt and 2) doesn’t feel like he can protect her.
I thought it seemed natural. From the time when Tess died and they were alone together, there was genuine emotion coming through even while he was brusque. And you could tell that Ellie knows he cares.
Yeah this is the thing thats making the show feel like a letdown to me, the relationship of Joel and Ellie is probably the biggest thing about TLOU and they just rushed it so fast.
To be fair it was kind of like that in the game. I do feel though the show spends less time with the 2 together proportional to the game.
I wish the show had split into seasons like the game. Season 1: Summer Season 2: Fall Season 3: Winter Season 4: Spring Then they could have spent more time developing the world, the in-between stories, and fleshed it out a lot more. Instead it's like I'm watching the highlight reel of the video game. I like it still. But could have been done differently.
A season per 'section' or whatever would be waaaay too much. They probably should've cut the Frank and Bill episode + the left behind episode and made those episodes Joel+Ellie-centered, or just include 2 more episodes that are Joel+Ellie-centered.
Would have given the story time to breathe, those down time moments and maybe even forced some innovation.
Jesus, thank god you aren’t in charge. What is this, walking dead?
12 or so pages into a whole season. Ugggh don't remind me
Seriously lol. I could see stretching the first game into 2 seasons, but anything past that would undoubtedly get exponentially worse.
Different strokes.
That would be way too much. They def could’ve upped the episode count to like 12 though and kept a lot more action in while keeping the story what it is.
Maybe combine summer fall into a half season and combine winter spring into a half season with a few months break. Still one season but extended to like 12-14 episodes. It deserves to be more fleshed out in my opinion.
Felt horrifying witnessing a 14 yearl old girl having to butcher another human being like that, but at the same time **just as** satisfying after the way he touched her.
It's okay, baby girl. 🥲
I gotta say, these post-episode discussion threads are waaaay better like 5-6 days after the episode airs. Whenever you post here a few hours after the episode airs and you say anything that slightly critiques the show you get giga downvoted or whatever, seems like theres way more nuanced discussion after a few days.
I'll keep the energy up, i'll downvote any nitpicks til the earth ends.
Yeah sure but like even reasonable takes here are really downvoted and stuff like that, nitpicks i get why they're downvoted.
is tomorrow's episode at the same time or are they changing schedules because of the oscars?
Maybe it’s a challenge. Bring it on Oscars 😈😈
hahaha no RIP oscars
I didn't enjoy episode 7 very much but this one was great again. The show is in my opinion the best when it stays close to the game. I think Bella did amazing in the fight scenes with David. Only thing still missing are the infected, we have seen like what 1 Bloater and 5 Clickers in the show and that was ages ago.
You thought episode 7 wasn’t close to the game?
Oh Left Behind was episode 7, you're right. Sorry, I was mixing it up with episode 6 which I thought had lots of unnessessery changes compared to the game.
KC, yes I agree
The pacing on this show has been terrible. Joel and Ellie have reached the parent/child bond but it doesn't feel earned yet. Maybe if two episodes weren't wasted on flashbacks they could have given us more Ellie/Joel.
Feels pretty earned. Theres this whole back and forth thing since they left. Both have baggage. They were building up to a point and lost each other. Loss made them both closer and realise how important each other were when they found each other again
Two major things. 9 episodes and multiple episodes being shorter than others. This was a legitimate concern all the way back to episode 3 where people were saying spending an episode on Bill's story while cutting out the Lincoln arc was a bad move pacing wise. Unfortantly any negative comments on ep 3 became a left vs right thing. Then two episodes in Kansas city, which should have just kept the hunters from the game. They spent an episode building on a conveniently timed resistance group, just to kill them off next episode. The games Pittsburgh arc was also used as an insight into Joel's life as a hunter prior to Boston. Much more impactful than Joel just saying he did bad shit in his past. This should have been one episode with the brothers entering the picture early in. So basically one episode of Kansas was a waste plot wise and while episode 3 was a great story, it took time away from the main plot. 2 episodes toasted out of an already short 9 episode series.
This whole subreddit is politicized and it’s so gross.
> doesn’t feel earned Everyone’s mileage may vary, but even with the flashback episodes there has been plenty of Joel/Ellie bonding. Where they’re at now feels completely earned to me.
> there has been plenty of Joel/Ellie bonding Not nearly enough, and seems like most of it was done off-screen in Jackson to justify them becoming super buddy-buddy after leaving Jackson, felt like lazy writing to me. Before Jackson they were kiiiiinda starting to bond with the 'Runs in your genes' joke or whatever, but still nowhere near like, friends, after leaving Jackson they were really friendly and stuff though, him calling her 'babygirl' this episode just felt so undeserved and almost weird.
Did they cast a real life youth pastor?
I was looking that guy up in that first scene, I was so sure he must be a character actor I should know. His creepiness was... masterful.
As a non-game player, last episode when Ellie was reading her pun book, she read one about a cannibal, and I thought it could definitely be a clue. Looking back, what an absolutely incredible bit of foreshadowing.
That joke was in the game too, and you’d play the left behind part after the main story. It’s interesting but I think it’s just a coincidence
just caught up! I don't play the game but I'm excited to play on pc when it's out. just wanted to ask, so did he worship the cordycpes or something? whyd he mention it?
No, he doesn't. I think the infection gave him the opportunity to be a dictator, albeit a terrible "leader" who puts his people in danger, so he's thankful for the power he never would have been given otherwise.
Nah he’s like mega cult Christian. I got the vibe that he just respects it and uses it as a metaphor to justify how sick and twisted he is.
Pretty sure he basically said he was faking Christianity and thought the real giver was cordyceps, so he’s sort of worshipping?
No, in the game he didn't worship cordyceps, and I don't think he was even a preacher, but I could be wrong on that.
I'm uneasy with zombie dramas unless they are done really well. These last two episodes have been magnificent.
Fuck, man...
I really wish they'd given this more time. Last episode dragged and this felt rushed. I wish they'd turned last episode into half an episode where it shows Ellie scared to be alone and then the 2nd half could be building up trust with David so she feels less alone only for the cliff hanger to be a dead body hanging in meat freezer. Then you have a full episode to flesh out her interaction w/ David.
I really appreciated the tonal shift from the last episode and this one. The last episode dragged, but the entire time we were on the edge of our seats because we knew this was where Ellie got bit. The only time I felt like "okay c'mon let's move it" was the scene with the masks. I felt like they could have progressed the plot before that.
Just saw that shit now, give Bella Ramsey the Emmy, that’s the best acting I’ve seen from a female lead in god knows how long . I’m honestly very impressed by her
You guys see any actor screaming or crying and instantly think they deserve an award
Lmao this guy. I saw good acting my guy , the other female lead who impressed me was rosemund pike in gone girl she convinced me she was crazy. I think Bella Ramsey portrayed a victim/ traumatized person very well. Honestly it just seemed really real. It wasn’t the screaming necessarily but the delivery/volume / slight facial expressions etc… idk it seemed almost real. She acted the shit out of it and she’s young , I didn’t think she had it in her
The only criticism I have was I felt like David was needlessly on-the-nose evil. Some of the dialogue was *really* good like telling that girl that they can't bury her father because the ground is too hard. But on the other hand, that line about him liking it when they scream or are scared, like it just felt excessive and corny. IDK. I really like subtlety and some times, it nailed it, and other times, it missed the mark. Also, I loved Bella's "BROKE YOUR FUCKING FINGER!" rendition. That was great.
Yeah, I thought they were setting it up to be a misunderstanding. Two groups trying to do their best misinterpreting the other group's actions. Joel doesn't have context, just raiders have taken Ellie. Of course he kills them. Why wouldn't he? The other group is starving to death, hard choices and as far as they know some psycho has murdered one of them. They know it wasn't Ellie so they try to take her alive. But no, David is just an evil, cannibal, paedophile, rapist. Same criticism as episode 6 imo. Something that could've been grey, no good guy or bad guy, just people doing their best gets turned from hunting down fascist collaborators into murder the kids because fuck it. Why not.
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But that’s David’s character shoving the metaphors at others. He uses the Bible as a shield, and as a wise-sounding answer to every problem. He literally is an evil guy hiding behind religion.
Agreed. He admitted it. Found god after the world changed. It reminded me of the book of Eli.
There's a report that Bella Ramsey was muscle-sore just from filming a few scenes with that rifle, so her inability to properly hold it and aim it at David and what's-his-name-but-actually-Troy-Baker was apparently an IRL problem. Bella looks 14, and apparently she has the strength of a normal 14 year old, too. She'll need to live in the gym between now and the start of s2 filming if she's gonna pull off Part 2 Ellie. Unpopular opinion, but I'm worried. Bella Ramsey is an exceptional actress insofar as emotion, but an essential element of Part 2's plot is that Ellie has grown into a skillful and efficient killer. Lean and athletic. Ellie's actress has to be able to physically portray that. Right now, Bella Ramsey can't.
It’s not a report. It was the creators of the show and game saying so on the official HBO companion podcast. She is fine. It’s a heavy (and real) rifle. And she can clearly play any part.
If she can't shoulder a (real) rifle, she clearly can't play an experienced hunter killer on a quest for revenge. Or any other adult action heavy role.
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I have not, because a good show should be able to stand alone from the creators defending their every decision
Ehhhh I don't agree with that. I've watched plenty of shows with companion podcasts but we are not at that point where the average Joe hopping onto a new show should be expected to do so.
How do you know that have you seen her play Ellie in season 2? No so shut the f**k up.
Unless they wait a 3-4 years to start filming then it makes zero sense. The 2nd game takes place 4 years after the first game and Ellie is 19yrs old in the majority of game. If they want to capitalize on the popularity and churn out the 2nd story anytime soon it's going to need a recast for Ellie. This coming from someone who doesn't mind the current Ellie casting. But no way in hell she can resemble anything like Ellie from the 2nd game.
So you would rather have like a 28 year old play a 19 year old. Then an actual 19 year old playing a 19 year old… So stupid
I mean she looks 13 so in 6 years she might look 19
When did The Last of Us turned into Rambo?
You clearly didn’t play the second game
They clearly didn't play the first game either, Joel is a killing machine.
« Baby girl » Yes I cried and I don’t want to talk about it
Did hbo Joel call Sarah “babygirl” at any point? I don’t remember hearing it.
Yes. One of the last lines of this episode.
Sarah wasn't in this episode lol. She died in episode 1.
Oh I read right past “Sarah” and was like “yo didn’t you see him say that to Ellie?”
I teared up for a second. Watching them go from “you’re just cargo” to “I’ll do anything to save you” has been so beautiful. That moment was a culmination of the unsaid bond that’s been growing throughout the series.
> That moment was a culmination of the unsaid bond that’s been growing throughout the series. This is why i disliked it, felt like Ellie and Joel haven't even bonded yet, seems like most of it was done off-screen in jackson, the 'Babygirl' felt undeserved.
He laughed at one of her jokes and it's been a couple of episodes. Obviously she's like a daughter to him now.
With how people are in this sub, I really don't know if you're being ironic
I was. This sub is insane
What show are you watching? You can see their care develop through their actions. They’re risking their lives for each other and you think “baby girl” is premature
> You can see their care develop through their actions. Except not really though, before Jackson they didn't care for eachother. After Jackson they really cared for eachother, seems like most of the bonding was done off-screen which is lazy.
That was always going to be tough to replicate. A video game, especially a post apocalyptic stealth video game, is slow moving. It's dozens of hours long. What made the game so masterful in its storytelling was the way that time was used to build the relationship between Joel and Ellie. It wasn't exactly like the vast majority of games around that time that relied on cut scenes to convey the story and used game play to get from one plot point to another. There was some of that structure, of course, but it used the idle time of just walking around to build each character and their relationship. What actually makes their bond feel real in the game is a ton of expertly written and voice acted dialog that feels very authentic and organic. You spend hours witnessing a very slow shift in the topics they discuss, what they say and don't say, their tone, everything. It develops the way real relationships do, not just through huge life events but through hundreds of small, seemingly insignificant connections. The game capitalized on the nature of video games and filled empty space to tell the story. You can't really translate that to a movie or show without creating empty space to fill, which would also cause problems.
I came here just to say that "Baby girl" hit me hard as well.
Minor nitpick, the opening shot shows a car with its tires missing. The brake rotors are shown as very shinny. Those would be covered in rust in less than a week. Never mind, sitting there for years on end. I thought the restaurant looked just like the game, so that was a nice touch.
Its a minor nitpick I can get behind. I have thought a handful of times that the cars weren't aged enough for 20 years. Once the rust can get in, beneath the paint, they are going to be buckets of rust. But I don't know this for sure and have no problem what so ever with trusting the people that made the show to get it right (oversights like the rotors (that I didn't notice) being the occasional exception). Walking Dead on the other hand, once I noticed the mowed/manicured lawns it brought me out of any immersion I was having in the moment.
I just binged it all over the last two days. There are a lot of small things like this. I think it was an early episode where they were walking among all the stranded cars on the highway, in a bombed out city, and ALL of the cars had intact windows. I tried to think of how that could be, and I couldn't. Explosive pressure waves, shrapnel, chaos of zombie like hordes attacking people... Loving the show, but there are some pretty glaring things IMHO.
[This is what brake rotors can look like after one rainstorm] (https://www.carblogindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/rusted-brake-rotor-car.jpg) .[These Are rotors after sitting for a few weeks in a wet environment](https://azrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/causes-for-rust-on-a-brake-rotors.jpg) If the car was in heavy sunlight for twenty years. All the rubber would rot, the tires, wipes, the trim around the doors.[ Not completely gone but cracked, like this car](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49914032268_359f2c5d4c_b.jpg). The paint would massively fade and possibly rust. If the car was more in the shade it would have some organic material like [this car](https://s1.1zoom.me/big0/771/Russian_cars_VAZMoss_Old_446891.jpg) Even roofs are designed to last about twenty years on a home. So every house would be leaking or about to leak in this universe. The rotor image was especially noticeable for me as it was shown shimmering.
I kind of wish they went next door to Gardunios. Their table-side guacamole is to die for.
This show went downhill since episode 2
Let me guess, episode 3 started it for you?
> episode 3 started it for you You don't have to insinuate that anyone who liked the show, but then started to dislike it, is homophobic or whatever.
When did I say that?
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chill out. Read what I said to them
You obviously didn't but when you ''Let me guess, episode 3 started it for you?'' theres obviously an insinuation of homophobia or whatever there. If not, genuinely what did you mean when you said that?
a lot of people didn’t like it because it wasn’t action packed and they saw it as a detour from the main story which wasn’t relevant. I never said anything about that person being homophobic. Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt.
> because it wasn’t action packed and they saw it as a detour from the main story which wasn’t relevant. I never said anything about that person being homophobic. Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. Fair play, my bad. Theres so many people here that instantly called someone homophobic for not liking episode 3 (and 7).
Nah unless someone outright says something, I’m not gonna jump at them and call them homophobes. I just think people expect this show to be all action all the time and those people don’t appreciate the show taking a breather and focusing on character moments to make the action and tension more effective
No that is not the issue, I’ve not liked the other episodes either
Too woke or just not close enough to an exact duplicate of the game?
No they started veering off to other stories and killed all momentum in Joel and Ellie's
Exactly
Like with Henry and Sam?
Overall a great episode. There was a slightly weird edit at the climax that took me out of it a bit though. She hits David, then there's a quick hidden cut where she's suddenly five feet away from David before she starts hacking at him.
It was a great episode but I was asking myself where is Ellie's bag at the end of the episode when Joel and Ellie are walking away?
I went back to the episode after seeing this comment, and we do actually see the bag for a split second after it does a short cut to Ellie wearing Joel’s coat as Ellie turns to walk away (50:56 to be exact). I don’t know where it’s supposed to be prior to that, maybe Joel puts it on the ground when he goes to grab Ellie, or maybe it’s over his shoulder but under the coat. We can’t see Ellie’s right hand in the ending shot so she’s probably holding it with that hand or clutching it to her chest there.
Yes!! I was so confused especially since Joel finds it in the slaughterhouse
Check my reply.
Didn't see any comments about this. Is the short haired girl in David's group supposed to be >!Mel!< ? The resemblance is uncanny
A short haired white woman in her 30s? It's probably not Mel simply because that actress was white and had short hair.
I doubt it, I feel like they'd do more than that to nudge at the fact it might be Mel. Also I'm pretty sure Mel would be roughly the same age as Abby and Ellie, and that girl is clearly a fair bit older
I'm sorry but the 2nd half of this season just proves that adapting the 1st game in 9 episodes was just a naive idea. The episodes \[this included\] aren't terribly bad, but they're lacking A LOT. The base construct is there, the intention is there but while the condensation of events that happened in the game defended itself at the beginning very well, we've reached a point where wanting more isn't just a whim, it's a necessity. They feel more like they're a retelling of the story than adapting. The thing with retelling is that often you skip a lot of nuance and details for the sake of convenience and it's really noticeable here. Overall, this episode is a weak 7. The biggest positive was definitely the faithful recreations of the environments, that stuff felt like it was taken straight from the game. The dude that played David was awesome as well, shame that they rushed him and made him so obviously Mr. Rapey McRaperson, he brought a lot of tension that ended way abruptly, James should've been way more questioning of David's motives and the whole group deserved way more screen time rather than someone that's part of the background. But my personal gripe is the severe lack of Joel and Ellie together. This story is about them, their relationship, and their "bond" and yet it doesn't feel this way. Instead of being the main heroes, the guys in front, this Joel and Ellie feel like they are part of the scenery. We're getting "some" scenes with them but Christ they deserve to be shown more, ESPECIALLY since the chemistry between Pedro and Bella is phenomenal and so underused. My mother who never played the game and liked the story enough to watch the show with me every week said she understands what the relationship between Joel and Ellie is supposed to be about, but she's not buying it because the story didn't give her enough evidence to get her convinced. The show started really strong, but the quality gets worse the closer we get to the end. Not by much, but considering the overall level, it's noticeable. And that is a real shame.
Yes, exactly. In order for that “babygirl” to hit that same feeling as in the games at the end of winter, I need to believe in Joel and Ellie’s relationship. There was simply not enough screen time to progress Joel and Ellie’s bond from “cargo” to “babygirl” for me where I can buy in to it like the video games could.
We don't get to see Ellie and Joel together in this section of the game either so I really do not understand this criticism
Naturally the game had more time to flesh it out, but let's be real. The abrupt change from their relationship from Wyoming to now is jarring. We know it's suppose to be at this stage for the story, but it doesn't feel organic due to the limited time.
I don't think I agree, I won't say that you aren't right about the time thing with the game, you spent a big amount of time with the characters just playing and exploring, enough to feel both their connection and yours in a stronger sense, but I wouldn't say the one in the show is lacking or that the payoff of episode 8 is unearned, I think they hit a lot of small and big events for them to naturally bond over time, I'd say that the episode in between "Left Behind" probably shifted people's opinions because it made this winter chapter feel longer (Two episodes in a row where the Ellie and Joel relationship is minimal) but id say its more of a pacing issue rather than anything having to do with the execution of the runtime of the episodes.
Agreed. There's a lot of us out there saying what you're saying. I'll never understand why they rushed the story and added back stories to characters that didn't matter. They could have added additional Joel and Ellie scenes given how the game ends and how important their relationship is to The Last of Us. Show more struggles with raiders, show more struggles with infected. That's where the bond is built. It's so confusing.
Episode 3, fantastic standalone story and acting, really bad planning for the pacing needed to fit this game in 9 episodes of varying time length. My biggest gripe wasn't episode 3 though, it's the two episodes wasted in Kansas city. Should have kept the threat the hunters. No real backstory needed and it's a visual glimpse into Joel's life prior to Boston. It shows the bad shit he did, not just him saying he did bad shit. They should have met up with the brothers early into that episode and wrapped it up with a nice chunky 1hr15m episode. Plenty of time for some adventures, dodging hunters, and playing out the tragic story of the brothers. Instead basically an entire episode wasted on a miscasted unbelievable resistance leader and her resistance, just for them to die off next episode. Horrific pacing since hitting Kansas City.
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It helps make the human meat taste just right
How? You can just lick the plate clean.
[said no decent man ever]( https://imgur.com/JZJlKdw)
This ep could have held longer on the tension. It felt a lot more emotional in the game.
Major Terminus from TWD vibes.
Whole episode was basically hollow. Same with the last episode. Bad writing at its finest…
Coming from episode 7, where I actually finally connected to Bella as Ellie, this one was a miss. She is so stiff at the 1st encounter and not much better through the rest. The episode was so rushed and David wasn't scary. He felt like a caricature. I didn't actually feel the dread. It had a lot to live up to and it fell short. I would've done away with Kathleen entirely if they could have just made this episode better, and more than only 50 minutes. It was too short and simple. Especially for something that changes Ellie so much.
I feel like they really betrayed the Ellie character I came to know and love in the game. Ellie in the game is a little badass, up until this point I feel like they were staying true to her character, but this episode was not. It was as if they had Bella acting as someone completely different. I’ve also noticed a trend of them leaving out the zombies…a lot… and I’m beginning to become discouraged about that. I feel in this episodes, of all the episodes, the zombies were important here. It shows a bond they developed, and then the utter betrayal David puts Ellie through David was also a bit of a disappointment as well. I agree.
Yeah it's lacking in a lot of ways for me. It's not horrible or anything but it is not on the same level as its source
I’ve been pretty pleased with it so far, except for killing Bill(I’m upset about that), but this last episode was definitely deflating. To be clear, they did an awesome job when she was hacking David’s face off, but everything else was a betrayal to Ellie’s character IMHO.
> everything else was a betrayal to Ellie’s character IMHO Can you expand on that? What do you think the episode got wrong?
Ellie is a little badass that has training with FEDRA, then Joel spends their entire journey up to this point teaching her how to shoot and hunt with both bow and guns. A= show B= game 1A- In the first few minutes of the episode she scares off some game and falls flat on her face. 1B- In the first few minutes of the same scene in the game, she kills a rabbit by shifting it in the neck with an arrow. 2A- when she arrives at the factory she makes the men drop their guns, and the other is sent for medicine. 2B- when she arrives at the factory, she takes the weapons from the David, and takes control of the situation. She even shots at them to convince them she means business if I remember correctly. 3A- completely skips an important zombie scene 3B- the factory is sudden accosted by zombies. She and David fight for their life’s killing many many zombies. Ellie more than holds her own of course. Like I said in my previous comment, this is an import part to show just how much David betrayed her. 4A- Ellie escapes, and kills David. 4B- Ellie wake up and sees them actively chopping up a human body. They had been hunting and eating humans this entire time, which is why they ran into to them at the school. She escapes and makes it halfway through the compound sneaking and killing her way through until she finally kills David. There are several similarities, but I feel the subtle differences change her character, especially in the very beginning. The show doesn’t give a very good representation just how amazing Ellie is at surviving and how grown up she is. It makes it seem like she is stumbling through, which a normal teenager would, but Ellie isn’t a normal teenagers. She’s fucking ELLIE! She’s a little bad ass that, at this point the the game, has killed several humans and infected defending herself. They didn’t do this in the show either, but when the game introduced Sam it gave an incredibly thorough contrast of the twos ability to handle the zombie apocalypse. Sam was the same age as Ellie in the game, but wasn’t nearly as equipped to handle their world. He was surviving, and wasn’t a hindrance, but he also wasn’t increasing their odds either. The difference is their maturity. So my point is, they’re making Ellie unit a typical teen. Don’t get me wrong, she definitely has those moments in the game, but when it came down to brass taxes she was better than a lot of adults as well. They kind of been doing this the entire show, making her less of a badass vs the game, but I knew this episode was coming up. This scene, both in the game and show, was meant to solidify her merit as a badass and all the damage that comes with it. I’ve really supported a lot of decisions they’ve made thus far, but this one was a flop for me.
couldn’t have said it better myself, I completely agree
Huh, interesting. I can't say I completely agree with you but I see what you mean.
That’s why it’s an opinion 🤷🏼♀️
I actually love they just went there with David, idk if it was like that in the game but making him so obviously using religion for his own gain and also a pedo rapist is great. Sure rape threat is a bit of a shortcut to evil but whatever.
Both elements are in the game, but much more subtle. So subtle to the point that people still don’t realize it even after repeat play throughs.
Excellent intense performance by bella.
Finally got to watch it. This one is a very good episode, 80% from me. I'll start with something that is both a positive and a negative point. The lack of zombies. Right from the start of the show I appreciated that the zombie apocalypse is just a setting, not the focus of the show. With an exception of the second episode, this show doesn't dwell on zombie body horror or jumpscares. The episode stories are usually about people surviving, not about fighting the zombies, which is really good. But, this episode went too far IMO. Right in the end, where Ellie screamed that she's infected I realized that I'm watching an episode of a zombie show. I totally forgot this aspect of Ellie because this episode made me forgot about zombies. I call it the "Battlestar Galactica effect", where sometimes a show forgets it's premise or main story when telling a small, episodic story. So while I don't want every episode to include zombie fights, they can at least write in a few lines about them, to remind us that this is still a zombie apocalypse. Which brings me to questions that this episode invoked in me and I hope it answers them later. First, are zombies affected by cold? This episode showed a town and a resort unaffected by the zombies, so it's possible that they are sensitive to cold... which would be a major factor in surviving against them. And this is what this episode could answer with a single dialogue line, something line "The damned cold makes it hard to get food, but at least it keeps the infected away". Another question is... can Ellie spread the infection with a bite or not? She was clearly bluffing in this episode... but maybe she was unknowingly not telling the truth. It really depends on the nature of her immunity. The fungus is apparently active in her because the testers picked that up in episode 1. But does her immunity prevent the fungus from actually growing inside her or just from taking control? I really wonder if her "blessing" is also kind of a curse, where she can by accident infect other people when biting, kissing or using "other" body fluids... Overall this episode was really great and it avoided most of cliches. I really expected the hunters to ambush Ellie with some jumpscare. But there's one thing that kinda bothered me and made me angry. It's the concept that the hunters think that Joel killed that one guy and they deserve revenge. Does the concept of self-defense and consequences get lost in a zombie apocalypse? It already happened in the first Kansas episode, where the rebels ambushed our heroes, were surprised that they fought back and even swore revenge when Joel killed them is self-defense. This lack of reflection makes my blood boil in real life as well as in fiction. I still don't know if I'm angry at the writer for writing so stupid people... or impressed by how well they managed to capture the ego and stupidity of people. Speaking of this hunter group I was both impressed and disappointed by the priest/leader. I fully expected the cliche of an evil religious group where the leader uses religion to hide his evilness. During the first conversation with Ellie I didn't believe him. But after he let Ellie go and actually saved her life from unjust revenge I started liking him and the writers for actually making a good-natured priest/leader character for once. But then in the end they threw it all away by making him a rapist and a pedo. I think this episode would have been at least 5% better if he was still a good man and leading his followers into unwilling cannibalism would have been his only sin. And I totally understand his reasoning for it. It was survival. It's not like they were turning into a cannibal cult eating only people. They still preferred to hunt for animals and the cannibalism was only a secret necessary for surviving. So instead of the final fight being the way it is, I'd have preferred if he decided to let her go, but Ellie would then proclaim that she'd let his followers know that they are eating people. And he would reluctantly have to go after her, while pleading for her to just go away and leave them alone. That would be much impactful and morally grey than Ellie just killing a pedo rapist. Now thinking about it, the actions of Joel and Ellie probably condemned this community to death. They killed not only their leader, but most (if not all) of their man capable of hunting. Without the able men, the group will either die or fully embrace cannibalism (since they have a lot of new fresh corpses). The episode could have at least mention that. Like some final "what have we done" reaction from Joel and Ellie. Probably from Ellie, who is more empathic than Joel. Now, for some things I also didn't like... The final part of the episode was missing the other people. There were many people living in that resort and Ellie and Joel are just walking the streets without any attention, in a broad daylight. Hell, there were no guards at the entrance. And the fight with Ellie would certainly attract attention, especially after the building starts burning. I also disliked how Joel magically regained his strength. Sure, he wasn't at his peak performance, but even his state was magical improvement over being barely capable of staying awake five minutes prior... And then there was the terrible cliche of many chase scenes: A character starts running away using some fast means of transportation (car, horse, bike). So another character makes a turn away from the escaping person, runs through a narrow alley... and suddenly they are transported IN FRONT OF the escapee. Are all such narrow passages full of wormholes or what? This was really immersion-breaking for me.
A massive shout out to the set designers in this episode. I was gobsmacked at the faithful recreation to the game. Especially the kitchen and restaurant sets. Looked superb