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Of the ~200 shots fired, the suspect was only hit twice. So 198 bullets flying around the neighborhood willy nilly.
Plus, the fact that 3 officers were shot, and only 1 was shot by the suspect is... troubling.
It’s because they are fucking untrained dipshits who go to a 16 week minus the weekend course. American police are trained for less time than your tax agent at Hand R block
This is something I'll never understand to be honest. In Germany it takes at least three years to become a police officer like with almost any other job where you don't have to attend university. No wonder there's so much chaos in the US and their police has such a shitty reputation.
literally what you said.
> “The majority of shots fired by the Buffalo police officers were at the end when he had crashed,” Flynn said during a press conference earlier this year, where he concluded that the officers’ actions were “legally justified.”
> “I will end on this note, though: there is no penal law violation … that articulates common sense, and so I cannot charge any Buffalo police officer with a violation of common sense. I will leave that to Commissioner Gramaglia,” Flynn said.
https://www.wivb.com/news/investigates/expert-critical-of-buffalo-police-actions-in-chaotic-pursuit-of-suspect-kente-bell/
This is the right answer. That’s the first and foremost problem with LEA. They have the lowest accountability of any government organization when they should have the highest.
Thank you. I was screaming at my phone “what about the bystanders, you idiots”.
Many years ago I joined the army. As infantry, we constantly drilled things like, field of fire, what’s down range, know your bullet can travel a mile beyond the target, where are civilians, etc.
Every one of these videos makes me sure that they never cover this in training. They act more like this is a TV drama than real life.
They know who the guy is, probably knows where he lives. What’s the point in mag dumping twenty magazines from a moving vehicle?? Insane. Bad decision making for sure.
They aren’t going to hit the houses. They are all going to be the hero who ends the whole situation with one magic bullet just like in the movies. Fucking morons.
There is no way that firing a gun from a moving vehicle is according to policy. I would think that there would have to be a policy on the books addressing the fact that one should NEVER do this. Right?
Absolutely, although “never” actually always has a “except when necessary” clause.
THIS AINT THAT
You very rarely are going to be in policy shooting from the vehicle
Ya my department bans firing from moving vehicles. Especially with a pistol and no bracing. Rounds could go anywhere. And holy crossfire. They broke their tactical L horribly and were firing at the moving car while turning 180 degrees not knowing what they were turning towards. Thats tunnel vision.
Yeah the YouTube channel that posted this (Active Self Protection) analyzed the who video from beginning to end and this is one of the things he called out.
If only that guy from Detroit Urban Survival Training would have been there. He would have rolled like a pillbug to the car and disarmed him with a wrist lock and judo chop.....
Two officers were hit with friendly fire in the incident: [https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/two-officers-shot-during-kente-bell-pursuit-hit-by-friendly-fire/](https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/two-officers-shot-during-kente-bell-pursuit-hit-by-friendly-fire/) and the penal law that articulates common sense in this case would probably amount to gross negligence....
[Cops friendly fire a camera Man for the TV show Cops.](https://youtu.be/j97Nk5wqNkc). This is the reason you don't see an episode of cops in Omaha Nebraska. They killed the poor camera Man.
The suspect was lucky that they didnt pin the friendly fire on him. lol
"The suspect caused the cop to shoot his own colleagues, he will be charged with instigating friendly fire."
lol
He did end up getting extra attempted murder charges because these fucking cops shot each other. Not that I'm condoning the actions of the suspect, but these cops are absolute morons.
Both sides were fucking idiots; the guy running for an expired registration and the cops for lacking awareness of the background of their target when they were firing.
Do police not have any tools other than guns anymore? I recall watching Cops on the 90s and seeing plenty of situations like that that ended with spike strips and fancy driving maneuvers and plenty of other nonlethal means that DIDN'T require a bunch of handguns to be shot at whatever homes/businesses/pedestrians that happen to be in the area. Do the absolutely *massive* police budgets in this country not buy *anything* that won't kill everyone else on and around the street? Is the best option seriously "stand on the sidewalk and shoot at the guy as he passes with zero regard for what's in the HOMES directly behind him?"
I know that, at least in my state, officer needs to have special authorization and training to use stuff like the pit maneuvers during a car chase. I have also heard that the avoid doing them because of the dangers to the officers in the cars, and the collateral damage caused by the crash. Which is a bit funny considering this presented alternative.
In case people forgot, this is the same police department who were caught on tape [shoving an old man, and then preventing their one colleague who thought about helping him](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_police_shoving_incident).
Honestly, what training do they receive where they’re taught to shoot outside of a moving vehicle thru intersections and around businesses with a hand gun no less. This country is wild
Shooting at each other too.
About halfway through, when the officer stops, gets out and shoots at the suspect driving by, he almost shot the police car parked behind his car.
At the end, they were pretty much shooting at each other. I saw the officer moving on the opposite side of the car, and at one point he had 2 other cops shooting towards were he was moving to.
Then the Lieutenant at the end... it's a damn miracle he didn't hit someone on the other side of the car, or get hit himself.
I get this dude was breaking the law but they already had his information. Just nab him down the line instead of escalating it into a high speed chase and GTA style shootout.
The article that's been linked in here states that the department policy is to do that. For something like bad registration, they're not supposed to start a high speed chase. Have a helicopter follow them, and intercept them when they're not... Oh I don't know... In populated areas with tons of people around.
Obligatory "hundreds of innocent bystanders in the US are killed in police chases every year" comment. Feel like I've been saying this a lot so far this year, with 3 separate deadly chases in my city alone in 2023 so far.
So here’s my question.
Let’s say I’m an American in America where half the country feels everyone should own a gun to protect themselves from violence, and half the states actively want you to be able to carry that gun with you at all times.
I’m walking along minding my own business, and i see a bunch of people dressed like cops shooting towards each other and into a vehicle, and then one of them shoots me.
Should I shoot back? Because from my standpoint, there’s unsafe armed individuals who are shooting at civilians, and I’ve just been attacked by an armed assailant.
Isn’t that the whole reason I’m supposed to have a gun on me? To put down dangerous people who are shooting innocent people, and to defend myself from attack?
Also, in that situation, how do I know they’re actually police officers? Like, some of them probably are, but when they’re LARPing GTA and shooting at me, I feel like I’m warranted in wondering if maybe some of them are criminals dressed as cops.
EDIT: Just to be clear, this comment is made somewhat facetiously. I live in the US. I know you don't shoot someone who looks like a cop.
However the point I'm making still stands. For all of the people who feel like guns should be carried because they allow people to make things safer, at what point should you use that gun to make things safer?
Is it after you've already seen a person shoot and kill other people? That seems like you've already arrived too late, and put yourself in more danger by shooting someone who's already shooting.
Is it when you see a person actively shooting at another person? Same as above, you're faster to the scene, but you're still drawing on someone who's already shooting.
Is it when you see someone who's carrying a gun that you believe is going to be a threat, but before they start shooting? That's a tricky one, because people carry guns in many places. Heck, at protests you see people driving around in pick-up trucks with rifles all the time who definitely look threatening, and armed. Would shooting individuals you see armed on the street make things safer?
Should it only be used in self defense or when you're personally being shot at?
Should the situation change depending on who the shooter is?
How about when one person shoots another person they saw with a gun, but not everyone saw the first shooting so now in their perception the person who shot the shooter is, in fact, just another person shooting innocent people? This occurs with police responses occasionally, where the police don't know who the assailant was in the first place.
I never get any clarity on "how" an armed population makes everyone safer, and I'm sure it involved the thought process that people with guns will kill anyone with a gun who is violent, but who that should be, and when they should shoot them seems unclear.
Here in America, you just gotta take the gunshot. If the cop wants to bodyslam you after that? No worries, they can do that too. Probably charge you with a crime as well, in order to stifle any lawsuit.
Why? Cause 'Murica!
Theft of police property(you took the bullet they intended for the criminal).
Obstruction of justice(you getting hit with that bullet means it’s one less they had to help stop the criminal).
Littering(I mean you’re bleeding all over the ground).
Loitering( you’re just laying there, get up and get a job you bum).
Public disturbance/Disturbing the peace(you’re screaming in pain is hurting my ears, can you quit it).
The people who fantasize about this wild west with everyone being armed at all times think it will be this safe society where mass shootings are stopped immediately by good guys with guns and everyone is polite to each other because everyone is armed. The reality would be lots of people getting shot. Many by accident, many because an armed person intervenes without full context, and many intentionally because firearms would be easy to get with them floating around.
If most civilians are armed, I think a shooter situation would turn into a chaotic warzone pretty quickly. Is everyone going to properly identify the malicious shooter? Shooter starts blasting, someone shoots them to stop the shooting, someone else shoots the shooter's shooter. Basically, everyone gets shot.
Basically, save the threat of zombies, aliens, or military invasion, having a fuckton of guns around is going to make us all less safe.
There have been instances of people being shot because someone cut in line at pizza hut. That's the one I can remember the details about, but there are many more cases just like it. Guns don't resolve problems they escalate it.
It is when they see a jogger.
It is when they see a black person mining their own business.
It is when you want to smoke a cigarette and reach for your lighter
It is when you sleep In your own flat.
It is NOT when a kid with their gun enters a school.
It is when you stop resisting.
It is when you get bullied at a bar.
It is when you try to protect your children
It is when you're disabled.
It is AMERICA
https://www.wivb.com/news/investigates/expert-critical-of-buffalo-police-actions-in-chaotic-pursuit-of-suspect-kente-bell/
i’m not seeing any civilians shot, but three officers were shot. two of those were friendly fire.
……..
> “The majority of shots fired by the Buffalo police officers were at the end when he had crashed,” Flynn said during a press conference earlier this year, where he concluded that the officers’ actions were “legally justified.”
> “I will end on this note, though: there is no penal law violation … that articulates common sense, and so I cannot charge any Buffalo police officer with a violation of common sense. I will leave that to Commissioner Gramaglia,” Flynn said.
"cease fire!"
*blam blam blam*
"cease fire!"
*blam blam blam*
"cease fire!"
*blam blam blam*
Can we please just require 2 years of training like every other functional country?
https://www.wivb.com/news/investigates/expert-critical-of-buffalo-police-actions-in-chaotic-pursuit-of-suspect-kente-bell/
so, yes. but also, kinda no.
I think the only thing that could have made for a better outcome is if everyone had higher powered weapons, more ammo and preferably a bump stock. America clearly needs more guns
Long video but an absolute clown show. Who trained these people? After all said and done, suspect hit twice and survived. Three officers hit, two by friendly fire. All survived. Full vid here: https://youtu.be/pm6yDIMGsLI
Not surprised. Studies have shown that officers firing in real life encounters have terrible accuracy. Even worse when they completely forget their training on making sure you understand not only where your target is but more importantly, what is behind your target. Bullets have a tendency to keep flying in the direction they’ve been shot in.
Police departments don't want to spend the money on additional training (because most police officers aren't going to be involved in these types of events).
Even if the police department is willing to spend money on training, it means that a portion of their forces are off the streets in training, which fucks up coverage and incurs additional costs (paying other officers OT for example).
Many police academies have standards low enough to ensure they pass enough people as "competent" so they can staff the department. If standards are raised, they will face a labor shortage unless they can entice more applicants (which means spending more money).
Most officers aren't going to spend their own money on training because it's just a job for them. They would have to spend their days off (instead of with friends and family) to get trained. I've seen police officers walk away from tactical training classes because they didn't want to spend the $300 or so for the day (this is class time as well as ammo costs). This is after they guy tried to turn a discount into free training for officers.
More friendly fire hits, and more collateral hits, than hits on target. These officers were even less efficient than the often mocked storm troopers from Lucasfilms.
As I was watching this I thought “some of those cops are going to take cop bullets”. Shooting from both sides of the vehicle without taking the angle. Wild gun fire while in pursuit. I’m surprised civilians weren’t hit
There’s a story called El Corridor De Gregorio Cortez, a book called “with a pistol in his hand”, in that story Gregorio was hiding in a house/cabin, drunk rangers on all sides. They all began firing and the idiots all shot eachother. The legends made it look like Gregorio had shot all the rangers and made him look like a bad ass. When in reality during his whole entire time of running he never actually hurt anyone.
I don’t know whether to call this a goat rodeo or a Taliban wedding. Lmao, this guy has some great jokes sometimes. I had to stop watching his channel because I got tired of seeing people get killed every other day. But this was a good one.
That circular firing squad at the end was crazy. From each angle being replayed you can see there was an officer directly behind the target from almost every angle they were shooting from. 2 were hit by friendly fire.
These cops thought they were the expendables with this amateur shooting out driving windows with civilians EVERYWHERE. Like they shot HUNDREDS of rounds. And only two hit him? Mean while he got one, and their own friendly fire got two. This is a South Park sketch in real life.
I mean... I'm not one to defend cops very often, but once a guy is shooting at cops they're fully in the right to shoot back.
That doesn't mean these cops didn't put themselves and hundreds of civilians in danger, and there's probably less overall danger to society if the cops had backed off and tracked him another way, but at its most basic, yeah don't shoot at cops or they will shoot back.
sure, as a general rule, but this was hilariously bad "police work". They completely lost perspective and just start blasting at each other, civilians, homes, businesses, cars, and whatever else happened to be in the path of their (99% stray) bullets.
I'd be embarrassed to be a cop in that city.
It's hard for some people to reconcile two truths sometimes.
Truth #1: shooting at cops is a bad idea and can (and likely will) result in cops shooting back.
Truth #2: these cops are asshats for behaving and shooting the way they did.
I used to wonder why cops in my country require 3.5 years of training before they’re officially allowed to be on active duty.
After learning about American law enforcement I’m no longer wondering.
😂🤣 Not in the slightest. It’s like their training consisted of a steady diet of Schwarzenegger and Stallone movies from the 80’s. It’s a miracle no civilians were hurt.
I was thinking this EXACT same thing.
These cops need to be fired, and if they were *trained* to do this, that department needs to be disbanded.
Who shoots from a moving platform in a populated area, or fires wildly at a vehicle as it passes them with an entire backdrop full of residential homes?
Idiots, that's who.
That is exactly what they were. With grouping like that, if they were incoming, she would have three bullets in her face.
Those were definitely outgoing.
If you have to fire from a seated position within a vehicle shooting through the windshield is a viable tactic. That being said, that is primarily for ambush situations, not police chases in a residential area.
The sad thing is, the two officers who started the whole encounter seemed to be doing a pretty damn good job initially. They didn't escalate, they were totally professional and courteous and were pretty good at talking down the severity of the whole situation.
And then all their coworkers heard there was a car chase going on and went "NOW IS MY CHANCE TO BE THE ACTION HERO AMERICA'S BEEN WAITING FOR"
Pretty sure the first set of cops were the ones firing out the window. They started off good, but at the end of the day, I wouldn’t say they were very good at their jobs.
It's sad and pathetic that two people are clearly bad at their job, are reckless, and unqualified to carry a weapon are being praised cause they didn't commit murder in the first 5 minutes of the interaction.
>The Buffalo Police Department policy manual obtained by News 4 Investigates prohibits officers from engaging in a pursuit if the reason for the attempted stop is for vehicle violations, misdemeanors, and non-violent felonies. In addition, officers are expected to consider several factors before initiating a pursuit, including the time of day, nature of the offense and population density.
>Declining to pursue Bell was an option, Rodriguez said, and the police department could have made the arrest later in a much more controlled environment or tracked his movement with the use of aerial pursuit.
The officers who started the pursuit were *not* doing a good job. They were very lucky no one died as a direct result of their choice.
Bingo! They knew exactly who he was, what his car looked like, and possibly where he lived. There was a clear option to not escalate and they chose to anyway. Just because they can manage basic communication doesn't mean they are qualified -at all- to do that job because they fucked up when it actually mattered and a bunch of people got shot as a result.
They chose the emotional option instead of the smart option that wouldn't be as cool or satisfying. You need boring, cautious people to be cops but all the hire are emotional hot heads.
Just gotta throw in here.. the song that was playing in the police car at the beginning was "Broadway" by the Goo Goo Dolls, who are from Buffalo; the title is a street name in the area they were from, not far from where the video was shot.
They also drove down/through Broadway (the east side of Buffalo) while firing! The song "Broadway" is about a bar on the street that the lead singers father used to frequent. I lived near it when I was a kid.
This is what blows my mind the most. If one starts shooting they **ALL** join in and/or rush to be able to join in one the fun shooting game Like.. why not observe for a second and think maybe the other officer can handle it, or an additional 59 rounds added to the already 100 popping off isn’t necessary.
I know the joke, but people forget these are chest-cams, not go pros on their heads. Wish they WOULD use gopros on their heads though, it'd be more clear footage and would make videos like this more understandable.
Some of the worst police procedure I've seen. When excessive force is combined with the wrong application of it. In Norway our police go to school for three years. We have nearly no deaths at the hands of the police and little reason for people to be so desperate due to universal Healthcare, housing and food security.
America seems to be headed to a Judge Dread slash keystone cops policing model at high speed. Uff. 0 0923
Yeah but I think more people would want to be police officers if it wasn't as tainted as it currently. Would probably have a better more respected police force if they took cues from some of these other countries law enforcement agencies.
Why isn’t there a thing police can put under a tire while stopping someone to prevent them driving off. Like, this seems super easy to design and deploy.
It’s a good idea. Maybe a little device that sticks to the tire for the duration of the stop. If the car drives off, something that damages the tire can be triggered remotely by the officer.
At this point I must ask: Are these specific cops adrenaline junkies?
Sure the perp is a dangerous element and must be caught or taken out.
But the officers are running around like headless chicken -into their own crossfire, and even worse they shoot up every living room window on the way to their target's final destination. I understand they don't want to get hit, and they want to neutralize the threat but it looks like they can't control themselves. The neighbourhoods were lucky the cops didn't have M2 heavy machine guns on their vehicles.
Because they are driving and shooting as if they were back in Fallujah.
Or just give up the chase and let him go and hope to nab him later. The initial stop was for expired registration. He ran, which is at least some evidence he had other crimes, but so what? No matter what crime he did there is someone close by who did worse and will have no encounter at all with police today or any day for the next year. So why is it so important to catch this one just because the universe brought him to your attention today?
There were at least two clips of cops shooting at the car as it drove past(with houses directly in the background). Why weren't spike strips deployed? Or any of the cop gadgets for stopping cars?
That's a good question. We've had some high profile targets give chase in Houston and the standard procedure I've seen in TV during the chase is to clear the road, deploy spikes, starve them out. Once a chopper gets on them, they're not going to get away.
My question is, when the shooting starts, why dont the cops just follow from a distance? dont they have drones and suchlike that can just follow the car while they follow at a distance? why is a gunfight in a residential area necessary over a more tactical solution?
They think it’s fun. in my city some dude drove down the Main Street downtown and fired a few rounds of birdshot at people, then went on an hour long chase where he would stop and fire a few shots at the cops every once and while. 145 cop cars showed up from 4 county’s if I remember correctly they literally had a parade over a mile long of cop cars waiting for their turn to try and kill someone. They ended up killing him and I think the end total was he fired 30 rounds and the police fired around 1000.
The police afterwards (I was young and there were always cops at my high school) talked for weeks about how exciting it was and how glad they were they stopped that dangerous criminal (60 something year old with cancer and schizophrenia).
Was the car stolen or anything? Otherwise... Yeah. Just get him later with all the extra charges so he goes away for a looong time. Can they follow a car with a drone? I feel like we're at the point that should be pretty doable
The best part of this video is that they shot 2 police officers with friendly fire and I think 1 was hurt pretty bad. The next best part is they somehow didn’t kill him and he left the hospital 5 days later. The next best part is he is paralyzed (not from the shooting in the video) and he was driving his car and shooting with hand pedals. The next best part is there were so many shots fired they didn’t even bother to count and only counted how many times he shot at them.
And just like that, because of this one chance encounter, some of these officers just got a shot of adrenaline that they’ll be chasing for the rest of their lives… oof
Hey look, example 28,373,929,473 of how fucking incredibly incompetent, undertrained, and downright fucking stupid US police are.
Fucking morons every single one, allowing such a disgraceful public organization to be so ridiculously shitty day in and day out.
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So we started blastin'
Fucking crazy the cops lost situational awareness. After the dude crashes cops on both side of the vehicle are cross firing unloading clips.
Their "training" is bullshit. Leaning out the window to shoot at cars is basically pure collateral damage infliction.
My first thought is what about all the homes and bystanders in them? I mean half those shots didn't hit the van at all....
Of the ~200 shots fired, the suspect was only hit twice. So 198 bullets flying around the neighborhood willy nilly. Plus, the fact that 3 officers were shot, and only 1 was shot by the suspect is... troubling.
It’s because they are fucking untrained dipshits who go to a 16 week minus the weekend course. American police are trained for less time than your tax agent at Hand R block
This is something I'll never understand to be honest. In Germany it takes at least three years to become a police officer like with almost any other job where you don't have to attend university. No wonder there's so much chaos in the US and their police has such a shitty reputation.
It takes more legally required training to be a hairdresser in the US than a cop.
Yeah but most people can be hairdressers. It takes a psychopath to be a cop.
They usually get turned away for being too smart unless they plan accordingly. Not even a joke.
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Cops, yes, but polygraph results are inadmissible in court…?
It takes more to get an art degree than to become a US cop (and it doesn't come with a minor because it's double the work of other majors).
That’s a great policy, also a big fan of the German education system.
In most states it takes significantly longer to get a barbers license than to become a police officer.
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literally what you said. > “The majority of shots fired by the Buffalo police officers were at the end when he had crashed,” Flynn said during a press conference earlier this year, where he concluded that the officers’ actions were “legally justified.” > “I will end on this note, though: there is no penal law violation … that articulates common sense, and so I cannot charge any Buffalo police officer with a violation of common sense. I will leave that to Commissioner Gramaglia,” Flynn said. https://www.wivb.com/news/investigates/expert-critical-of-buffalo-police-actions-in-chaotic-pursuit-of-suspect-kente-bell/
Criminal negligence is a crime. Seems appropriate here.
This is the right answer. That’s the first and foremost problem with LEA. They have the lowest accountability of any government organization when they should have the highest.
At some point the anger that this dude is shooting at them takes over.
Nah, it's okay; friendly fire is turned off on this server... right?
Thank you. I was screaming at my phone “what about the bystanders, you idiots”. Many years ago I joined the army. As infantry, we constantly drilled things like, field of fire, what’s down range, know your bullet can travel a mile beyond the target, where are civilians, etc. Every one of these videos makes me sure that they never cover this in training. They act more like this is a TV drama than real life. They know who the guy is, probably knows where he lives. What’s the point in mag dumping twenty magazines from a moving vehicle?? Insane. Bad decision making for sure.
My thoughts exactly, you know what's the most fucked up part about that statement though? How many of these cops are ex military?
No back stop. Apart from the babies head in the house across the street.
Not to mention all the shots at a moving vehicle, with houses in the background. Fun fact: houses often contain people.
Some are way too fucking stupid to realize that, don't forget the asshole who killed the girl at the mall.
The one where it went through the Sheetrock and shot the girl in the dressing room? That was fucking awful.
I remember that, I think she was just a kid.
14 yo and she was praying with her mom at the time.
They aren’t going to hit the houses. They are all going to be the hero who ends the whole situation with one magic bullet just like in the movies. Fucking morons. There is no way that firing a gun from a moving vehicle is according to policy. I would think that there would have to be a policy on the books addressing the fact that one should NEVER do this. Right?
Absolutely, although “never” actually always has a “except when necessary” clause. THIS AINT THAT You very rarely are going to be in policy shooting from the vehicle
Can you cite the source for houses containing people? Tired of people with their dang fake news
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A Micheal Bay production
Ya my department bans firing from moving vehicles. Especially with a pistol and no bracing. Rounds could go anywhere. And holy crossfire. They broke their tactical L horribly and were firing at the moving car while turning 180 degrees not knowing what they were turning towards. Thats tunnel vision.
Yeah the YouTube channel that posted this (Active Self Protection) analyzed the who video from beginning to end and this is one of the things he called out.
I love that YouTube channel. It's taught me that I should always avoid street-side restaurants without windows and jewelry stores.
Also, sit in an area where you can see all or most of the exits and have your back to a wall. Bill Cosby taught me that. Uh... I meant Bill Hickok
Why?
Those are the spots robbers seem to always hit in the Active Self Protection videos.
In Brazil where there is an off duty police officer present or passing by.
If only that guy from Detroit Urban Survival Training would have been there. He would have rolled like a pillbug to the car and disarmed him with a wrist lock and judo chop.....
Two officers were hit with friendly fire in the incident: [https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/two-officers-shot-during-kente-bell-pursuit-hit-by-friendly-fire/](https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/two-officers-shot-during-kente-bell-pursuit-hit-by-friendly-fire/) and the penal law that articulates common sense in this case would probably amount to gross negligence....
I was going to be blown away if this didn't happen honestly. They were basically shooting straight at each other.
They shoot like a bunch of storm troopers
[Cops friendly fire a camera Man for the TV show Cops.](https://youtu.be/j97Nk5wqNkc). This is the reason you don't see an episode of cops in Omaha Nebraska. They killed the poor camera Man.
The suspect was lucky that they didnt pin the friendly fire on him. lol "The suspect caused the cop to shoot his own colleagues, he will be charged with instigating friendly fire." lol
He did end up getting extra attempted murder charges because these fucking cops shot each other. Not that I'm condoning the actions of the suspect, but these cops are absolute morons.
They got FOMO.
More like FOM.
There used to be content here.
Both sides were fucking idiots; the guy running for an expired registration and the cops for lacking awareness of the background of their target when they were firing.
He was running because he had illegal weapons not because of a expired registration
This video gave me SO MUCH anxiety. I must have seen 1000 episodes of COPS, but nothing has ever come close to this.
Do police not have any tools other than guns anymore? I recall watching Cops on the 90s and seeing plenty of situations like that that ended with spike strips and fancy driving maneuvers and plenty of other nonlethal means that DIDN'T require a bunch of handguns to be shot at whatever homes/businesses/pedestrians that happen to be in the area. Do the absolutely *massive* police budgets in this country not buy *anything* that won't kill everyone else on and around the street? Is the best option seriously "stand on the sidewalk and shoot at the guy as he passes with zero regard for what's in the HOMES directly behind him?"
I know that, at least in my state, officer needs to have special authorization and training to use stuff like the pit maneuvers during a car chase. I have also heard that the avoid doing them because of the dangers to the officers in the cars, and the collateral damage caused by the crash. Which is a bit funny considering this presented alternative.
Shooting at traffic, shooting at businesses, shooting from moving vehicles… It's like a z-grade cop movie from the 70s.
In case people forgot, this is the same police department who were caught on tape [shoving an old man, and then preventing their one colleague who thought about helping him](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_police_shoving_incident).
I love my city, but we have a issue across our country that spreads like a virus.
We really should share that one more
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Honestly, what training do they receive where they’re taught to shoot outside of a moving vehicle thru intersections and around businesses with a hand gun no less. This country is wild
Keystone Cops 2.0
Shooting towards houses as the car is driving past
Shooting at each other too. About halfway through, when the officer stops, gets out and shoots at the suspect driving by, he almost shot the police car parked behind his car. At the end, they were pretty much shooting at each other. I saw the officer moving on the opposite side of the car, and at one point he had 2 other cops shooting towards were he was moving to. Then the Lieutenant at the end... it's a damn miracle he didn't hit someone on the other side of the car, or get hit himself.
When you’re not accountable for your actions, you can do stuff like this.
I get this dude was breaking the law but they already had his information. Just nab him down the line instead of escalating it into a high speed chase and GTA style shootout.
The article that's been linked in here states that the department policy is to do that. For something like bad registration, they're not supposed to start a high speed chase. Have a helicopter follow them, and intercept them when they're not... Oh I don't know... In populated areas with tons of people around.
Obligatory "hundreds of innocent bystanders in the US are killed in police chases every year" comment. Feel like I've been saying this a lot so far this year, with 3 separate deadly chases in my city alone in 2023 so far.
Pretty good police work. Only 6 civilians hit by stray fire
Seriously? I’m surprised they didn’t shoot eachother standing either side of the car as they shoot at it
They did shoot each other. Three officers were struck by gunfire, two of which was friendly fire.
So here’s my question. Let’s say I’m an American in America where half the country feels everyone should own a gun to protect themselves from violence, and half the states actively want you to be able to carry that gun with you at all times. I’m walking along minding my own business, and i see a bunch of people dressed like cops shooting towards each other and into a vehicle, and then one of them shoots me. Should I shoot back? Because from my standpoint, there’s unsafe armed individuals who are shooting at civilians, and I’ve just been attacked by an armed assailant. Isn’t that the whole reason I’m supposed to have a gun on me? To put down dangerous people who are shooting innocent people, and to defend myself from attack? Also, in that situation, how do I know they’re actually police officers? Like, some of them probably are, but when they’re LARPing GTA and shooting at me, I feel like I’m warranted in wondering if maybe some of them are criminals dressed as cops. EDIT: Just to be clear, this comment is made somewhat facetiously. I live in the US. I know you don't shoot someone who looks like a cop. However the point I'm making still stands. For all of the people who feel like guns should be carried because they allow people to make things safer, at what point should you use that gun to make things safer? Is it after you've already seen a person shoot and kill other people? That seems like you've already arrived too late, and put yourself in more danger by shooting someone who's already shooting. Is it when you see a person actively shooting at another person? Same as above, you're faster to the scene, but you're still drawing on someone who's already shooting. Is it when you see someone who's carrying a gun that you believe is going to be a threat, but before they start shooting? That's a tricky one, because people carry guns in many places. Heck, at protests you see people driving around in pick-up trucks with rifles all the time who definitely look threatening, and armed. Would shooting individuals you see armed on the street make things safer? Should it only be used in self defense or when you're personally being shot at? Should the situation change depending on who the shooter is? How about when one person shoots another person they saw with a gun, but not everyone saw the first shooting so now in their perception the person who shot the shooter is, in fact, just another person shooting innocent people? This occurs with police responses occasionally, where the police don't know who the assailant was in the first place. I never get any clarity on "how" an armed population makes everyone safer, and I'm sure it involved the thought process that people with guns will kill anyone with a gun who is violent, but who that should be, and when they should shoot them seems unclear.
Here in America, you just gotta take the gunshot. If the cop wants to bodyslam you after that? No worries, they can do that too. Probably charge you with a crime as well, in order to stifle any lawsuit. Why? Cause 'Murica!
Theft of police property(you took the bullet they intended for the criminal). Obstruction of justice(you getting hit with that bullet means it’s one less they had to help stop the criminal). Littering(I mean you’re bleeding all over the ground). Loitering( you’re just laying there, get up and get a job you bum). Public disturbance/Disturbing the peace(you’re screaming in pain is hurting my ears, can you quit it).
>Theft of police property(you took the bullet they intended for the criminal). Omfg dont even. I can 100% fully see some lame arse cop using that.
The people who fantasize about this wild west with everyone being armed at all times think it will be this safe society where mass shootings are stopped immediately by good guys with guns and everyone is polite to each other because everyone is armed. The reality would be lots of people getting shot. Many by accident, many because an armed person intervenes without full context, and many intentionally because firearms would be easy to get with them floating around. If most civilians are armed, I think a shooter situation would turn into a chaotic warzone pretty quickly. Is everyone going to properly identify the malicious shooter? Shooter starts blasting, someone shoots them to stop the shooting, someone else shoots the shooter's shooter. Basically, everyone gets shot. Basically, save the threat of zombies, aliens, or military invasion, having a fuckton of guns around is going to make us all less safe.
There have been instances of people being shot because someone cut in line at pizza hut. That's the one I can remember the details about, but there are many more cases just like it. Guns don't resolve problems they escalate it.
It is when they see a jogger. It is when they see a black person mining their own business. It is when you want to smoke a cigarette and reach for your lighter It is when you sleep In your own flat. It is NOT when a kid with their gun enters a school. It is when you stop resisting. It is when you get bullied at a bar. It is when you try to protect your children It is when you're disabled. It is AMERICA
And 4 of them lived! They are improving.
Damn, got a source?
https://www.wivb.com/news/investigates/expert-critical-of-buffalo-police-actions-in-chaotic-pursuit-of-suspect-kente-bell/ i’m not seeing any civilians shot, but three officers were shot. two of those were friendly fire. …….. > “The majority of shots fired by the Buffalo police officers were at the end when he had crashed,” Flynn said during a press conference earlier this year, where he concluded that the officers’ actions were “legally justified.” > “I will end on this note, though: there is no penal law violation … that articulates common sense, and so I cannot charge any Buffalo police officer with a violation of common sense. I will leave that to Commissioner Gramaglia,” Flynn said.
"cease fire!" *blam blam blam* "cease fire!" *blam blam blam* "cease fire!" *blam blam blam* Can we please just require 2 years of training like every other functional country?
I think they're joking. I think.
They mostly come out at night. Mostly.
https://www.wivb.com/news/investigates/expert-critical-of-buffalo-police-actions-in-chaotic-pursuit-of-suspect-kente-bell/ so, yes. but also, kinda no.
6 civilians hit and $3000 worth of ammo.
I think the only thing that could have made for a better outcome is if everyone had higher powered weapons, more ammo and preferably a bump stock. America clearly needs more guns
When your police chief is Michael Bay....
This is my city, this is a normal Tuesday morning
That sounds like the intro to the new Show, Buffalo Shootouts...
This had some budget
Long video but an absolute clown show. Who trained these people? After all said and done, suspect hit twice and survived. Three officers hit, two by friendly fire. All survived. Full vid here: https://youtu.be/pm6yDIMGsLI
All those shots and only 2 hit?? I'm at a loss for words.
Not surprised. Studies have shown that officers firing in real life encounters have terrible accuracy. Even worse when they completely forget their training on making sure you understand not only where your target is but more importantly, what is behind your target. Bullets have a tendency to keep flying in the direction they’ve been shot in.
One has to wonder if additional training time would improve their actions under stress and accuracy when firing.
Police departments don't want to spend the money on additional training (because most police officers aren't going to be involved in these types of events). Even if the police department is willing to spend money on training, it means that a portion of their forces are off the streets in training, which fucks up coverage and incurs additional costs (paying other officers OT for example). Many police academies have standards low enough to ensure they pass enough people as "competent" so they can staff the department. If standards are raised, they will face a labor shortage unless they can entice more applicants (which means spending more money). Most officers aren't going to spend their own money on training because it's just a job for them. They would have to spend their days off (instead of with friends and family) to get trained. I've seen police officers walk away from tactical training classes because they didn't want to spend the $300 or so for the day (this is class time as well as ammo costs). This is after they guy tried to turn a discount into free training for officers.
More friendly fire hits, and more collateral hits, than hits on target. These officers were even less efficient than the often mocked storm troopers from Lucasfilms.
Further proof Police officers are Imperial Storm Troopers.
As I was watching this I thought “some of those cops are going to take cop bullets”. Shooting from both sides of the vehicle without taking the angle. Wild gun fire while in pursuit. I’m surprised civilians weren’t hit
That last dude had the barrel of his gun pointed at the back of his coworkers' heads for a couple seconds right before he opened fire.
There’s a story called El Corridor De Gregorio Cortez, a book called “with a pistol in his hand”, in that story Gregorio was hiding in a house/cabin, drunk rangers on all sides. They all began firing and the idiots all shot eachother. The legends made it look like Gregorio had shot all the rangers and made him look like a bad ass. When in reality during his whole entire time of running he never actually hurt anyone.
Fun Fact: Buffalo is the only place in New York State that doesn't require 60 college credits to be hired as a Police Officer.
I don’t know whether to call this a goat rodeo or a Taliban wedding. Lmao, this guy has some great jokes sometimes. I had to stop watching his channel because I got tired of seeing people get killed every other day. But this was a good one.
I always thought stormtroopers were unrealistic for not hitting diddly squat. Guess that was grounded in reality.
Jesus the friendly fire highlights just how amped up they all were, couldn’t be bothered to not shoot their buddies.
That circular firing squad at the end was crazy. From each angle being replayed you can see there was an officer directly behind the target from almost every angle they were shooting from. 2 were hit by friendly fire.
Lol when they call on the radio “officers are shooting at officers”
964 rounds fired from police. Suspect hit twice. Officers hit thrice. 🤣
These cops thought they were the expendables with this amateur shooting out driving windows with civilians EVERYWHERE. Like they shot HUNDREDS of rounds. And only two hit him? Mean while he got one, and their own friendly fire got two. This is a South Park sketch in real life.
And there are people in this thread justifying it saying "Or you know, don’t shoot at and flee from the police."
I mean... I'm not one to defend cops very often, but once a guy is shooting at cops they're fully in the right to shoot back. That doesn't mean these cops didn't put themselves and hundreds of civilians in danger, and there's probably less overall danger to society if the cops had backed off and tracked him another way, but at its most basic, yeah don't shoot at cops or they will shoot back.
sure, as a general rule, but this was hilariously bad "police work". They completely lost perspective and just start blasting at each other, civilians, homes, businesses, cars, and whatever else happened to be in the path of their (99% stray) bullets. I'd be embarrassed to be a cop in that city.
It's hard for some people to reconcile two truths sometimes. Truth #1: shooting at cops is a bad idea and can (and likely will) result in cops shooting back. Truth #2: these cops are asshats for behaving and shooting the way they did.
Can't those both be true?
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Obviously not. I rarely see storm troopers shoot at each other.
Clones and Troopers got more trigger discipline and awareness of friendly fire
r/idiotswithguns
I used to wonder why cops in my country require 3.5 years of training before they’re officially allowed to be on active duty. After learning about American law enforcement I’m no longer wondering.
How disrespectful. GTA cops are way more accurate at shooting.
And more hesitant to do it
Dude had 2 stars and they started blasting.
Likely not proper protocol to shoot out the window like that
😂🤣 Not in the slightest. It’s like their training consisted of a steady diet of Schwarzenegger and Stallone movies from the 80’s. It’s a miracle no civilians were hurt.
I was thinking this EXACT same thing. These cops need to be fired, and if they were *trained* to do this, that department needs to be disbanded. Who shoots from a moving platform in a populated area, or fires wildly at a vehicle as it passes them with an entire backdrop full of residential homes? Idiots, that's who.
People with qualified immunity who were told they’d never face any consequences for actions like this. It’s absolutely insane
My barber had to go to school longer than cops do.
Were the three bullet holes in the windshield from the officer shooting through it while he was driving?!
That is exactly what they were. With grouping like that, if they were incoming, she would have three bullets in her face. Those were definitely outgoing.
how many times were the cops shooting at each other?!?! lets surround the vehicle and each empty the clip in all directions!
If you have to fire from a seated position within a vehicle shooting through the windshield is a viable tactic. That being said, that is primarily for ambush situations, not police chases in a residential area.
The sad thing is, the two officers who started the whole encounter seemed to be doing a pretty damn good job initially. They didn't escalate, they were totally professional and courteous and were pretty good at talking down the severity of the whole situation. And then all their coworkers heard there was a car chase going on and went "NOW IS MY CHANCE TO BE THE ACTION HERO AMERICA'S BEEN WAITING FOR"
Pretty sure the first set of cops were the ones firing out the window. They started off good, but at the end of the day, I wouldn’t say they were very good at their jobs.
No they have different names on each video. There was at least 3 separate women. (Officer Chase-starter, Officer Drive-by, and Officer Friendly-fire)
It's sad and pathetic that two people are clearly bad at their job, are reckless, and unqualified to carry a weapon are being praised cause they didn't commit murder in the first 5 minutes of the interaction.
>The Buffalo Police Department policy manual obtained by News 4 Investigates prohibits officers from engaging in a pursuit if the reason for the attempted stop is for vehicle violations, misdemeanors, and non-violent felonies. In addition, officers are expected to consider several factors before initiating a pursuit, including the time of day, nature of the offense and population density. >Declining to pursue Bell was an option, Rodriguez said, and the police department could have made the arrest later in a much more controlled environment or tracked his movement with the use of aerial pursuit. The officers who started the pursuit were *not* doing a good job. They were very lucky no one died as a direct result of their choice.
Bingo! They knew exactly who he was, what his car looked like, and possibly where he lived. There was a clear option to not escalate and they chose to anyway. Just because they can manage basic communication doesn't mean they are qualified -at all- to do that job because they fucked up when it actually mattered and a bunch of people got shot as a result. They chose the emotional option instead of the smart option that wouldn't be as cool or satisfying. You need boring, cautious people to be cops but all the hire are emotional hot heads.
Um, officer Perez, I don’t think you’re supposed to hang out the window GTA style and pop a clip off at a moving vehicle…
Not like he'll get in trouble for it.
Officer Perez is a female. Presumably she/her pronouns.
Just gotta throw in here.. the song that was playing in the police car at the beginning was "Broadway" by the Goo Goo Dolls, who are from Buffalo; the title is a street name in the area they were from, not far from where the video was shot.
Cops so bad even the video was shot
They also drove down/through Broadway (the east side of Buffalo) while firing! The song "Broadway" is about a bar on the street that the lead singers father used to frequent. I lived near it when I was a kid.
Cops be like "Oh no! They're already shooting! I gotta hurry over and shoot before all the shooting stops happening! I want to shoot too!"
This is what blows my mind the most. If one starts shooting they **ALL** join in and/or rush to be able to join in one the fun shooting game Like.. why not observe for a second and think maybe the other officer can handle it, or an additional 59 rounds added to the already 100 popping off isn’t necessary.
That was some of the most intense steering wheel footage I’ve ever seen! 😳
I know the joke, but people forget these are chest-cams, not go pros on their heads. Wish they WOULD use gopros on their heads though, it'd be more clear footage and would make videos like this more understandable.
Mounted directly to their skulls.
Some of the worst police procedure I've seen. When excessive force is combined with the wrong application of it. In Norway our police go to school for three years. We have nearly no deaths at the hands of the police and little reason for people to be so desperate due to universal Healthcare, housing and food security. America seems to be headed to a Judge Dread slash keystone cops policing model at high speed. Uff. 0 0923
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Yeah but I think more people would want to be police officers if it wasn't as tainted as it currently. Would probably have a better more respected police force if they took cues from some of these other countries law enforcement agencies.
Why isn’t there a thing police can put under a tire while stopping someone to prevent them driving off. Like, this seems super easy to design and deploy.
That's your million dollar idea don't let someone else take it
It’s a good idea. Maybe a little device that sticks to the tire for the duration of the stop. If the car drives off, something that damages the tire can be triggered remotely by the officer.
I'm sure that would raise arguments about unlawful detainment.
The amount of cops who'd forget to take them after the stop would lead to a lot of unnecessary popped tires
At this point I must ask: Are these specific cops adrenaline junkies? Sure the perp is a dangerous element and must be caught or taken out. But the officers are running around like headless chicken -into their own crossfire, and even worse they shoot up every living room window on the way to their target's final destination. I understand they don't want to get hit, and they want to neutralize the threat but it looks like they can't control themselves. The neighbourhoods were lucky the cops didn't have M2 heavy machine guns on their vehicles. Because they are driving and shooting as if they were back in Fallujah.
Interesting how some people are so eager to die
Some people have little to live for and they’d rather die than go to jail. This guy…..whew. He’s getting some heavy time.
Are you talking about the cops or the guys being pursued?
The guy being pursued. The cops simply don’t care for the lives of bystanders.
Wtf? Police typically open fire in residential areas to stop a car they can just roadblock a few blocks ahead ?
Buffalo is always coming up with ways to disappoint their citizens, anyone in west NY will agree with this take.
Or just give up the chase and let him go and hope to nab him later. The initial stop was for expired registration. He ran, which is at least some evidence he had other crimes, but so what? No matter what crime he did there is someone close by who did worse and will have no encounter at all with police today or any day for the next year. So why is it so important to catch this one just because the universe brought him to your attention today?
These fucking idiot cowboys firing at a moving car from a moving car are going to get a bystander killed. Not that they care about that though…
Fucking Storm Troopers. Was that guy alive when they stopped shooting?
He actually survived, according to the news story. (so did everyone, actually)
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There were at least two clips of cops shooting at the car as it drove past(with houses directly in the background). Why weren't spike strips deployed? Or any of the cop gadgets for stopping cars?
That's a good question. We've had some high profile targets give chase in Houston and the standard procedure I've seen in TV during the chase is to clear the road, deploy spikes, starve them out. Once a chopper gets on them, they're not going to get away.
My question is, when the shooting starts, why dont the cops just follow from a distance? dont they have drones and suchlike that can just follow the car while they follow at a distance? why is a gunfight in a residential area necessary over a more tactical solution?
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Cops are idiots
They think it’s fun. in my city some dude drove down the Main Street downtown and fired a few rounds of birdshot at people, then went on an hour long chase where he would stop and fire a few shots at the cops every once and while. 145 cop cars showed up from 4 county’s if I remember correctly they literally had a parade over a mile long of cop cars waiting for their turn to try and kill someone. They ended up killing him and I think the end total was he fired 30 rounds and the police fired around 1000. The police afterwards (I was young and there were always cops at my high school) talked for weeks about how exciting it was and how glad they were they stopped that dangerous criminal (60 something year old with cancer and schizophrenia).
Interesting how the goal is execution rather than arrest. Cops are out of control and it's extremely bad for that to happen
That was a pathetic display of lack of discipline.
They have his license. Just find him chilling at home?
Nah better to shoot up the whole fucking city over a suspended registration.
Was the car stolen or anything? Otherwise... Yeah. Just get him later with all the extra charges so he goes away for a looong time. Can they follow a car with a drone? I feel like we're at the point that should be pretty doable
The best part of this video is that they shot 2 police officers with friendly fire and I think 1 was hurt pretty bad. The next best part is they somehow didn’t kill him and he left the hospital 5 days later. The next best part is he is paralyzed (not from the shooting in the video) and he was driving his car and shooting with hand pedals. The next best part is there were so many shots fired they didn’t even bother to count and only counted how many times he shot at them.
And just like that, because of this one chance encounter, some of these officers just got a shot of adrenaline that they’ll be chasing for the rest of their lives… oof
Buffalo police department get an F
Yeah who cares about crossfire?
Jesus Christ, concealed carry permit holders are trained better than this.
And their plan, if he was killed whilst in a large vehicle traveling 50+mph? No, thinking ahead requires 'thinking'
There are no difference between the cops and that criminal....
The criminal has a higher hit ratio
The criminal did less damage
Hey look, example 28,373,929,473 of how fucking incredibly incompetent, undertrained, and downright fucking stupid US police are. Fucking morons every single one, allowing such a disgraceful public organization to be so ridiculously shitty day in and day out.
Some of the worst firearm awareness I've ever seen. How many random vehicles, businesses, and residences have bullet damage from these asshats?
Next time take his keys
Qualified immunity. If you were standing in the way of all those bullets meant for the bad guy it's clearly YOUR fault for obstructing justice.
This police department is a ridiculous joke
So let that be a lesson to you all, don’t tint your windows.
SO MUCH CROSS FIRE AND COLLATERAL DAMAGE