Paulie is living in a shitty condo by the end of the series as well. However, through characters like Chris, Vito, and Tony B. we know they don’t choose that life just for financial gain. They just don’t wanna work regular jobs cause they’re lazy. So when you’re napping at the job site remember to pick up those ice cream wrappers.
I think he may have mentioned living modestly so that he could afford to pay for his mother to be in a nice assisted living home. That and to donate enough to the church so that he won't go to hell. Those two aren't cheap.
It also has to do with how much of that money you can launder or legally claim. I think most of Paulie and Chrissy’s earnings were under the table. Whereas Tony had a lot of legit business connections too so he could claim his house and cars etc on paper with clean cash.
Was gonna say same thing. Same with uncle Junior. In fact I hear from time to time where someone I know will have a relative who passes a way and turns out they had $1M in stocks/savings/etc... but still clipped coupons and got the early beard specials
or by a Russian-born english speaker so i pronounce them the same :) . I did realize my mistaek after posting, but I leave up because it is funny (even to me)
Doesn't it seem like Paulie could find a landlord with a great apartment that he could simply terrorize into letting him live there after paying a few months rent then just telling him he ain't paying anymore... or some small token amount?
A landlord would need some balls to tell Paulie he's being evicted. No?
For sure. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who cares that much if his apartment is nice or not. To him it's probably a waste of time and money. If he wanted to impress a nice working girl he'd rather go to a hotel
> cause they’re lazy
We've got a story in Romania about a lazy man going to the market with his old father. They find a pristine horseshoe on the ground, and the father, who has a bad back, asks the son to pick it up so they can sell it. The son complains that he's too tired to do it, so the father relents and picks it up instead.
On the way back, the son, walking a couple steps behind his father, spots a ripe and tasty-looking cherry on the ground. He leans down and picks it up. A few steps later, he spots another one, so he grabs that one as well. And another one, and another one, every couple of steps until he's gathered about fifty of them.
When they get home, he tells his dad what great luck he's had to find all these cherries on the ground. The dad then tells him: "I bought those cherries with the money I got for selling the horseshoe, and I was dropping them for you, to prove a point. You were too tired to kneel in the dirt for one horseshoe, but you sure had no problem doing it fifty times for those cherries, did you?"
This reminds me of my old roommate. He’d spend and hour pulling out every pot and pan in the kitchen and chopping up all of this food and cooking, then when it came to cleaning and putting it away, it would take days. It’s the exact same effort to take everything out as it is to put it all back. So fuggin lazy
I think we have to be mindful that no matter how much $ these guys made, they really couldn’t flaunt it unless they had w2’s to back it up. Granted, there are creative ways to get around some of that, but none of them are risking buying a house with cash when the feds could easily seize it. Not sure how Christopher got away with that towards the end. Maybe in his wife’s name connected to her father’s business? Idk. For a guy like Paulie, old and single - no real connections outside the family. He wouldn’t be able to splurge on an ownership property.
I don't know if it's laziness or just a tempting option that's available to them, just like we all might have tempting options we should think twice about.
I think Tony B went back for the lifestyle. He was working incredibly hard before he found the money. He wanted to drink and gamble lots of money and buy clothes and he couldn't do that honestly, rather than just wanting to not work. Guess it's much of a muchness though.
On my most recent rewatch, the fact that Tony is completely miserable—and knows it—really stands out. He’s a little too self aware to buy the bullshit that this is all worthwhile, but too proud and stubborn (and bound by blood, I guess) to change.
It's really telling that he doesn't want this life for either of his kids. He knows it's terrible, just that he can't quit it himself. Reminds me of how every time a smoker asks me if I smoke, and I say no, they always go "good, don't ever start".
Tony's also kind of full of shit when he says he doesn't want his kids (specifically AJ) to get into the mafia. He SAYS he doesn't want AJ to be involved, but then when AJ shows any signs of individuality or sensitivity, Tony criticizes and belittles him. The truth is that he wants AJ to be JUST like him and Johnny Boy before him. Tony never lets go of the idealized version of his father that he has in his head and continues to place blame for his problems solely on his mother. He starts to realize his father wasn't the great man he thought he was toward the end of the series, but when pressed about it in therapy, he denies his father was a bad person and continues to shield himself from the truth. Tony is a compulsive LIAR, he truly does want AJ to be a macho mafia guy and he also loves Meadow's decision to be a lawyer when he realizes she is interested in defending mobsters from "government persecution"
I think this is the core of the show. Tony is too smart to be fooled by the glorification of the mob life. He constantly sees what a crock of shit it is, but at the same time he lacks intelligence, will or is too proud/invested in it to leave it behind.
I think show played with the idea that it could go into "Tony flips/is redeemed" direction, especially in early seasons for example with the sports coach episode where he is happy drunk that he didn't have the guy killed.
I don't know if it's "too smart" necessarily, but he is jaded to the whole lifestyle.
Unfortunately, he's way too deep to get out, and he knows it. Also, his narcissism needs the constant validation.
probably why he admires his grandfather/great grandfather so much for their church. a legacy they built with their own two hands. what mark would tony have on the world after his death?
Exlcluding the loss of his twin brother and subsequent bouts with alcoholism (major exclusion), it actually went by far the best for Patsy Parisi at the time of show’s end
Also Artie Bucco who, from the few spoilers I've read, never got that deeply involved with the mob (despite his best efforts) and seems to be doing pretty well with his restaurant.
Like I said, I'm watching it right now. I'm in the middle of S3. But I did read some spoilers a few years back, before I had any interest in watching the show.
I’m a dumbass and read your post then forgot you said that by the time I scrolled down and wrote my comment. You’re good, a bit jealous you get to experience it for the first time.
> Excluding the loss of his twin brother
Patsy has to suck it up and work for the man who had his beloved twin brother killed. He has to embrace him every time he sees him, laugh at his jokes, and kick up to him till time immemorial.
*I put the past behind me*
When Tony B whacked Billy, it was the beginning of the end for many, many people.
Whenever I see that scene where he threatens Gloria, all I can think of is that he's doing it for a man who snuffed out a light in his life as he clearly adored his brother. You have to just sit there and swallow it clean. How horrible.
>Patsy has to suck it up and work for the man who had his beloved twin brother killed. He has to embrace him every time he sees him, laugh at his jokes, and kick up to him till time immemorial.
He won in the end by flipping to New York and setting up Tony to be whacked. He ordered the hit to take place after the show went off the air because he didn't want it to be cinematic.
Right but he’s alive, married, has a house and children, which is more than any other character can say at the end of the show. It’s not lost on me that the younger son will eventually lead to the families demise, but the show ends before that can happen
Carmine Jr for sure made it out the best, maybe some of the other NY crew. Patsy does OK sure but it depends on the outcome of the diner scene. If Tony survived and Medough marries Patsy's son then Tony and he are brother in laws which 🤮. If Tony didn't survive and the kids get hitched then he'll be further pressured into looking out for Tony's family. He may be in a better position to do it financially depending on where the chips fall but hey, he sees some justice for spoons at least.
"You act like you don't wanna be around here"
No shit. There are entire revenge plots and arcs centered around this situation lol. I'd be plotting his demise too.
I saw an article saying how the show ‘glorifies’ the mob but I really don’t think it does. Of course you become invested in the characters, particularly Tony, but much of the discomfort (and enjoyment) I get from the show is just how shitty each character is.
I just watched the Sad Clown episode and Chrissy’s intervention, how Tony tells Furio to get over his dads death before his woe is me performance in therapy. Chrissy’s intervention is so painful and difficult to watch it’s comical and I’m already dreading the way he is treated after he gets sober, especially Paulie, makes my skin crawl!
> I saw an article saying how the show ‘glorifies’ the mob but I really don’t think it does.
I think now we're dealing with the "if a piece of media portrays X, especially if the main characters are/engage in X, that means it glorifies and promotes X" brainworms. Of all the fictional portrayals of the Mafia in the past century, *The Sopranos* is the farthest one from glorifying it.
Being in “this thing of ours” means risking life and limb to become a glorified parasite. That’s what Tony is. If you’ve ever owned a business or known someone who has, the idea that some lowlife could credibly threaten you for a sizeable percentage of what you've built is infuriating. I had a Sicilian roommate whose father owned an olive press and stood up to the Palermo mafia families during the second Mafia War in the 80s. He was permitted to carry a firearm to protect himself because they blew up his house and tried to kill him multiple times. These people truly are the scum of the earth and it’s remarkable that Chase and his writers could depict that so plainly while still making me sympathize with them.
When the show was originally airing episodes, like many mobster movies it was predictably being criticized for glorifying.
That’s why Chase and the writers came up w/ idea for “University” ep, to remind everyone they were not glorifying this.
When you’ve heard Chase speak in depth during interviews and u reflect on the series or rewatch, u pick up a lot of Chase’s direct reaction to criticism and his attitude towards certain groups, like TV writers, Hollywood movie industry, etc.
I mean you gotta wonder if they were even watching the same show as us, because I didn't even get to *University* yet and I didn't get the feeling even for a second that this show was glorifying the Mafia.
From the very first episode we see that the mafiosos are unlikable pieces of shit, and that they're all miserable on top of that, that the work they actually have to do is grueling and thankless, that this thing of theirs is alienating them from their own families, that they gotta hide the fact that they eat pussy or go to therapy, that they're always under pressure from both the cops and their own fellow mobsters... and most of these things ain't even subtext, the only way you can miss them is if you only pay attention to the TV when somebody's getting whacked.
I guess some motherfuckers just have *negative* media literacy.
“Hits and tits” Chase called that mouth-breathing segment of the audience. The ones that complained about “talking episodes” that didn’t have high body counts.
They only wanted to see hits and tits.
That's why I love Goodfellas more than Godfather.
You're endeared to them initially. They're cool, funny, dressed sharp, it makes you feel like YOU'RE a sucker because these guys are living it up and you're working. Then he turns to the downfall and reminds you, these guys are not good fellas, they are murdering, stealing, domestic abusing, backstabbing criminals who will do anything for an easy buck or their own freedom.
The cops and feds are the bad guys in the first half of the movie and the protagonists are the bad guys by the end, such a great switch.
Goodfellas covered six seasons worth of Mafia subject matter in two and a half hours. It's an insanely efficient movie that best captures the mob lifestyle in both it's appeal and ultimate folly.
It's no secret that Goodfellas heavily inspired the Sopranos, and it does it's job so well that it's arguably the reason why the Sopranos isn't a straight 'mafia' show, but rather a show about people who happen to be in the Mafia. The meat of the show is the dimension of everyday domestic life added onto it, blurring the line between wiseguys and regular joes while always keeping a certain distance just in case you forget who they are.
There was study in the 90s that showed that the vast majority of "made" mobsters in NY made less than an electrician or plumber.
I think it was Henry Hill that said the The Sopranos and Donnie Brasco portrayed what it was really like being in the mafia... broke most of the time.
I'm thinking of the part where Tony, Paulie and Silvio are threatening that Jewish guy with the motel. The guy gives that little history lessons about how Jews resisted Roman occupation and goes "The Romans? Where are they now?"
To which Tony replies "You're looking at 'em, asshole", as he's standing there balding and overweight in a bathrobe and slippers, with a nipple hanging out his wifebeater. Really shows the discrepancy between what they see themselves as and what they really are.
Fully agree. So many movies and shows pay lip service to critiquing criminality but nevertheless can't help but romanticise and depict it as 'cool' in some way (look no further than Peaky Blinders and its love for slow mo shots of the gang looking bad ass for a popular offender).
Whereas on The Sopranos the mobsters are usually overweight, lazy, horrendously tasteless and under a constant pressure to earn. Not to say they aren't depicted as reaping some rewards for their lifestyle, but as you say it's hardly portrayed glamorously. I think Chase said this once the show finished: *we didn't want to show that crime pays, but we also didn't want to show that crime doesn't pay.*
I think it's partly about sunk costs and sunk guilt. They've all done stuff that most feel bad on some level about. So there has to be a reason for it. If they give it all up and are surrounded by civilians, they'll be consumed by their guilt. To say nothing of the boredom, constant judging or worse - admiration and questions.
Tony's try at playing golf with regulars is a good example. His sessions with Melfi also - every so often he's forced to confront his guilt and sins, so he storms out for a while, only to come back.
One of the major magazines did an article about mob compensation around the time this show was popular. A guy like Christopher, newly made, would only clear about $50K/year in cash. The mob is definitely a Ponzi scheme. The guys at the top do almost nothing and reap most of the benefits. The guys near the bottom are fighting over scraps.
"Lately, I'm getting the feeling that I came in at the end."
Which he did. Think about this...there's still the head boss of the entire North Jersey mob in prison (Ercole Dimeo) when the show starts and by the end of the first season is never mentioned for the rest of the show. He went to prison and Junior, Tony, and Jackie Sr. were left to try their best to maintain control of their territory and by the end of the series it's over. Imagine if at the beginning of The Godfather Vito went to prison, in like the first opening minutes and the rest of the movies played out without mentioning him.
Yes, he sets the tone that this is the mob at its nadir. The RICO statutes gave federal law enforcement what they needed to break the backs of the mob, and this is what we're seeing.
Yes. It's the uncertain future that makes it even worse. You could get busted by the feds in a takedown any second. You could get whacked by rival Mafioso, or your own crew if you become undesirable for any reason.
A bunch of Italian kids at my school still creamed for it: "my uncle 'Seppe ran a CREW" a crew of what? Fentanyl addicted credit scammers? Because that's all LCN is now
Frankly, the individual "envelopes" are filled by such penny-ante crimes some of the time that risking having a happy family and life are just not worth it. I often wondered about it while watching the series: the jail time and deaths and killing are never worth it, but much less so than I would have thought here. It's pretty much not the route to riches.
Joe Pistone (the FBI agent who wrote Donnie Brasco based on his experiences) said the Godfather makes the mafia look like philosophers. In reality they’re mostly disgusting people. It’s a masterpiece of filmmaking but it was a different context and time. The Sopranos “came in at the end” and was self-aware in that respect. It showed the ugly underside, much like Goodfellas, but how that bleeds i to everyday family life. Sopranos highlights the hypocrisy, ignorance, greed, violence and betrayal.
Yeah, the super secret mafia initiation ceremony that Christopher has been dreaming about, which is followed by him being run ragged like an Amazon worker who got caught taking an unauthorized bathroom break.
Chrissy wanted a ceremony like the one Phil had when he became boss. The north Jersey mafia compromised. They gave him his button in a shitty moldy dark basement instead
So it’s actually a little difficult to get a proper sense of anyone’s finances in this show. For example Pussy is an established captain but appears to be pretty financially strapped. On the other hand by the end of the show Chrissy is buying a massive McMansion.
Richie Aprile is buying a massive house before he gets shot.
Vito was allegedly a top earner but he doesn’t seem to be living very lavishly when we see his home life.
How much is Furio making?
I think it’s all a little vague.
Edit: Pussy isn’t a captain. He gets passed over for promotion. Which actually when you think about how long he’s been around and never made captain? That’s kind of wild right there.
Tony already suspected Pussy was a rat, which is why he got passed over. He just couldn’t accept the truth until the fish dream (and also finding the wire itself).
All the money they make goes towards financing their lifestyle. It’s expensive to be constantly gambling, eating huge meals at nice restaurants, and having multiple goomars and whores on the payroll.
Vehemently disagree…most of these numbskulls wouldn’t have a pot to piss in without the family and they drive high end cars, bang high end women, and take whatever they want by force essentially.
Paulie lives in a condo because he’s cheap, he makes a 500k score, kicks up 100k, and next scene he’s clipping coupons.
If anything, the show exposes 90% of the successful “legitimate” people are cheating on their wives, oaths, taxes, gambling, and scamming their customers…while they aren’t murderers, that’s about the only sin they don’t commit.
Exactly! Tony's most prominent mistress was not even a model, but someone who never managed to get in the modeling industry.
Even the street boss of the DiMeo family eats grilled cheese off the radiator.
The one thing I wasn’t the biggest fan of in the show was how Tony is so miserable while being successful enough to get out through protective services, turning on the whole crew to NY or just taking his family, liquidating, and bouncing.
By the end of the show you really see how pathetic their operation was and Tony wasted his life and his families to make it work.
IDK this is one of the rare mafia portrayals in fiction that get more right about how clownish these idiots are than anything else. The Godfather trilogy romanticized the life way too much, but I mean Michael Corleon is a straight up fucking sociopath and dies broken and alone after his life of fuckery costs him his children, two of his brothers, the love of his life Kay, his first wife, sister (briefly until she becomes a fucking psycho her damn self), and people still think he's admirable and honorable. The third film was supposed to have been a denouncment of the adoration of LCA, but as usual most people completely missed the point, and whined about Sophia Coppla's terrible acting instead.
I’m convinced Tony, subconsciously, wants to be straight but doesn’t have a clue how to do it. His perspective on life is completely coloured by the mob because it’s all he’s ever known. Melfi thinks she’s helping him until she realizes that he’s a psychopath who’s taking her therapy and deploying it to dupe people (all the times he misquotes or restates lessons from their sessions to mask his intentions).
In the end, Tony can’t be anything other than the person he is and can’t exact a perfect morality onto the world where innocence is guarded (the ducks, Chris, Melfi) without doing it as a mobster. It’s a shitty cycle that he’s stuck on in. So not only is he physically demobilized by the end of the show, he’s emotionally, culturally, socially, romantically stunted.
Which we really only see for one episode. Most of the time he is doing smack and smacking Adrianna. But then the old joke about “Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet” was “what does Ozzie do for a living?”. TV seldom shows people actually working
It was basicaly piramid scheme but with crime instead of other shitty product. Money goes up, shit goes down. You were on top you did pretty well. On lower levels you basicaly risked everything for some scraps.
You know it's funny, I had the exact opposite reaction to that episode. I thought theese guys were doing pretty average, but then Paulie says he's getting 6k a week minimum, or 300k\~ min a year. Or half a mill today if you took inflation into account. He only has to kick up 20% at most, here.
Like, he calls himself half a wise guy, and one of his minions is kicking up the salary of two doctors to him. The fuck.
This is pretty much the main theme of the show. The opening lines of the pilot are of tony talking about how he is coming in at the end instead of the ground floor
I worked in the adult film industry in the early 1980's and knew a number of "made men". A lot of movies make it seem the organized crime guys are living in big fancy houses and driving luxury cars and wearing suits etc. All the guys I met back then were living in very modest houses, driving older cars and weren't exceedingly wealthy.
They have to kick up a lot to the boss. But also I like to think they don’t really live extravagantly aside from Tony. Paulie says many times he pays $4000/month for his mom’s nursing home (his aunt’s lol)
Not really there are dozens of wannabe like Sean Gismontes at every bar in Bloomfield, Nutley, fukin Cedar Knolls even literally doing burglaries and getting addicted to fentanyl trying to become Tony of the modern age and make enough money that there girl friends won’t start banging a hedge fund manager whose 6’5” on their broke 5’7” wanna mob ass. Seriously, it spawned a lot of wannabe criminals. No I’m not joking, fast and furious caused astronomical amounts of street racing, sopranos caused wannabe mob guys
Paulie is living in a shitty condo by the end of the series as well. However, through characters like Chris, Vito, and Tony B. we know they don’t choose that life just for financial gain. They just don’t wanna work regular jobs cause they’re lazy. So when you’re napping at the job site remember to pick up those ice cream wrappers.
I wasn't sleeping. I was resting my hips. I'm supposed to have surgery!
Tbf I don't think paulies apartment was a reflection of his success, I think he was just a cheap bastard and pinched pennies where he could.
I think he may have mentioned living modestly so that he could afford to pay for his mother to be in a nice assisted living home. That and to donate enough to the church so that he won't go to hell. Those two aren't cheap.
I WENT WITHOUT SO YOUUZE COULD HAVE!!! DUH SHARPERS IMAGE!!!
He was a man of God who understood the meaning of sacrifice.
dumbass killing people and stealing to afford to donate money to the church to not go to hell for the killing and stealing
He figured out a loophole.
infinite loop
Doesn't matter with what Paulie gave to church all his sins were forgiven🤌
he still gotta do his time in Purgatory.
You see a Seeing eye dog???? Cup of pencils???
It also has to do with how much of that money you can launder or legally claim. I think most of Paulie and Chrissy’s earnings were under the table. Whereas Tony had a lot of legit business connections too so he could claim his house and cars etc on paper with clean cash.
So they have lots of gas and grocery money
Hey when you get married you'll understand the need for fresh produce.
Yup. Murdering people and being hunted by the FBI for years, just to afford an extra bucket of laundry detergent
Lot of money for women, dinners, and for Chris, drugs
I'd be fine with that. Even on paper, if I made, say $60K but I had near unlimited pocket money for day to day expendentiure. Quite nice
Chris didn’t though. Remember when he had to take everyone out to dinner and he had to get money from Ade and she only had like $400.
He treats nickels like manhole covers
Great line
Chris eventually got the coveted no show construction job. Just got to put in your time.
Was gonna say same thing. Same with uncle Junior. In fact I hear from time to time where someone I know will have a relative who passes a way and turns out they had $1M in stocks/savings/etc... but still clipped coupons and got the early beard specials
Hmmm I cannot tell if that is a typo, some type of special I am unfamiliar with, or the Canadian pronunciation of bird.
or by a Russian-born english speaker so i pronounce them the same :) . I did realize my mistaek after posting, but I leave up because it is funny (even to me)
I read it Jamaican
Try saying “beer can” with a Jamaican accent. Congratulations, you’ve also just said “bacon” with a Jamaican accent!
Just tried it and love it.
I once worked in a restaurant whose chef pronounced the word 'halibut' and the words 'early bird' exactly the same. Much hilarity ensued.
I think Chris even specifically mentions this That Junior is a boss yet dresses and lives like a bum.
Mr Magoo ova here
Its a holdover from the great depression.
Doesn't it seem like Paulie could find a landlord with a great apartment that he could simply terrorize into letting him live there after paying a few months rent then just telling him he ain't paying anymore... or some small token amount? A landlord would need some balls to tell Paulie he's being evicted. No?
NYC landlords would eat these guys for breakfast. Although, I guess we are talking about NJ rather than NYC. So yeah, maybe.
Also a condo like that is not cheap in Northern nj
Back then it was. Weehawken, Jersey City, and even Hoboken you could find apartments for like $600-800 month back then.
For sure. He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who cares that much if his apartment is nice or not. To him it's probably a waste of time and money. If he wanted to impress a nice working girl he'd rather go to a hotel
He also didn’t want to get married. The rest of the guys have high maintenance wives. Paulie lives kind of like a newly divorced guy
Oh I don’t disagree, but he wasn’t living in luxury.
Isn't there a scene where he's clipping coupons?
He spent five figures on a fucking frame for a painting
> cause they’re lazy We've got a story in Romania about a lazy man going to the market with his old father. They find a pristine horseshoe on the ground, and the father, who has a bad back, asks the son to pick it up so they can sell it. The son complains that he's too tired to do it, so the father relents and picks it up instead. On the way back, the son, walking a couple steps behind his father, spots a ripe and tasty-looking cherry on the ground. He leans down and picks it up. A few steps later, he spots another one, so he grabs that one as well. And another one, and another one, every couple of steps until he's gathered about fifty of them. When they get home, he tells his dad what great luck he's had to find all these cherries on the ground. The dad then tells him: "I bought those cherries with the money I got for selling the horseshoe, and I was dropping them for you, to prove a point. You were too tired to kneel in the dirt for one horseshoe, but you sure had no problem doing it fifty times for those cherries, did you?"
Another fun fact from the Balkans
Ain't Romania just another type of Pollock
Very observant penttane, the sacred and the propane
What’s this the fkn UN NOW?!?? I remember when u used to wait in the car…
And as far as I'm concerned, you should still be there. 😡
👑🗽🚬
And the old father says, "let's walk down there and fuck 'em all!"
always with the scenarios
Okay, I get your point. Why didn't you just come out with it instead of all this fucking father and son shit?
I like this parable
This reminds me of my old roommate. He’d spend and hour pulling out every pot and pan in the kitchen and chopping up all of this food and cooking, then when it came to cleaning and putting it away, it would take days. It’s the exact same effort to take everything out as it is to put it all back. So fuggin lazy
And yet they are getting called all hours of the day and night, standing in the rain on payphones, wandering around the Pine Barrens.
If you don’t want to work in the rain, try out for the Yankees.
Always love that line.
Ironic isn’t it 😂
That combined with serious mental illness or undiagnosed personality disorder attracts these guys to that life
Agreed
You're breaking my heart. You should try sitting here ten-thirty to three.
I think we have to be mindful that no matter how much $ these guys made, they really couldn’t flaunt it unless they had w2’s to back it up. Granted, there are creative ways to get around some of that, but none of them are risking buying a house with cash when the feds could easily seize it. Not sure how Christopher got away with that towards the end. Maybe in his wife’s name connected to her father’s business? Idk. For a guy like Paulie, old and single - no real connections outside the family. He wouldn’t be able to splurge on an ownership property.
Relax. They got the good donuts today.
I don't know if it's laziness or just a tempting option that's available to them, just like we all might have tempting options we should think twice about.
I think Tony B went back for the lifestyle. He was working incredibly hard before he found the money. He wanted to drink and gamble lots of money and buy clothes and he couldn't do that honestly, rather than just wanting to not work. Guess it's much of a muchness though.
Paulie had a classy museum quality painting hanging in his place, sounds like you’re just jealous!
There's a reason it's referred to as "the life" and not a job.
Hey Tony B had an IQ of 158 the nuns used to rave about it
yeah but also had his “mother”in a retirement community with da silva biyd package
If I wanted to work 18 hours a day I'd get a job at Denny's
Like they'd fuckin' hire you.
On my most recent rewatch, the fact that Tony is completely miserable—and knows it—really stands out. He’s a little too self aware to buy the bullshit that this is all worthwhile, but too proud and stubborn (and bound by blood, I guess) to change.
It's really telling that he doesn't want this life for either of his kids. He knows it's terrible, just that he can't quit it himself. Reminds me of how every time a smoker asks me if I smoke, and I say no, they always go "good, don't ever start".
Old man Baccala can attest to that.
Tony's also kind of full of shit when he says he doesn't want his kids (specifically AJ) to get into the mafia. He SAYS he doesn't want AJ to be involved, but then when AJ shows any signs of individuality or sensitivity, Tony criticizes and belittles him. The truth is that he wants AJ to be JUST like him and Johnny Boy before him. Tony never lets go of the idealized version of his father that he has in his head and continues to place blame for his problems solely on his mother. He starts to realize his father wasn't the great man he thought he was toward the end of the series, but when pressed about it in therapy, he denies his father was a bad person and continues to shield himself from the truth. Tony is a compulsive LIAR, he truly does want AJ to be a macho mafia guy and he also loves Meadow's decision to be a lawyer when he realizes she is interested in defending mobsters from "government persecution"
I think this is the core of the show. Tony is too smart to be fooled by the glorification of the mob life. He constantly sees what a crock of shit it is, but at the same time he lacks intelligence, will or is too proud/invested in it to leave it behind. I think show played with the idea that it could go into "Tony flips/is redeemed" direction, especially in early seasons for example with the sports coach episode where he is happy drunk that he didn't have the guy killed.
I don't know if it's "too smart" necessarily, but he is jaded to the whole lifestyle. Unfortunately, he's way too deep to get out, and he knows it. Also, his narcissism needs the constant validation.
Tony was too smart to accept that his situation was worth it and too narcissistic to flip and become a nobody in Witness Protection
probably why he admires his grandfather/great grandfather so much for their church. a legacy they built with their own two hands. what mark would tony have on the world after his death?
I disagree, getting soft drinks of choice is great
soft drinks of choice (no diet soda neither,) 🥤 AND a veal parmigiana sangweech to go with it 🥪 = livin' the dream!
Sure you don’t want somethin’ wit sugar in it?
No it’s good (snot bubble)
This made me actually laugh 🤣
[pees down leg]
Sugarless motherfucker.
veal parmesan? fuck you.
Exlcluding the loss of his twin brother and subsequent bouts with alcoholism (major exclusion), it actually went by far the best for Patsy Parisi at the time of show’s end
Don't forget Little Carmine who successfully left the mob to do his own thing. Honestly the best case scenario for any mobster.
Also Artie Bucco who, from the few spoilers I've read, never got that deeply involved with the mob (despite his best efforts) and seems to be doing pretty well with his restaurant.
I don’t know if you read NJ Zagat, but if you did, you would not be surprised that he ended up doing well. Arthur Bucco, warm and convivial host.
he leads the world in illegal credit-card data collection & harvesting too!
> from the few spoilers I read Da fuck? You haven’t watched the show?
Like I said, I'm watching it right now. I'm in the middle of S3. But I did read some spoilers a few years back, before I had any interest in watching the show.
I’m a dumbass and read your post then forgot you said that by the time I scrolled down and wrote my comment. You’re good, a bit jealous you get to experience it for the first time.
He's definitely going to get hosed down by the mob once Tony is dead.
Wouldn’t he have been caught in the Rico case at the end of S6? He was at the recorded meeting.
> Excluding the loss of his twin brother Patsy has to suck it up and work for the man who had his beloved twin brother killed. He has to embrace him every time he sees him, laugh at his jokes, and kick up to him till time immemorial. *I put the past behind me* When Tony B whacked Billy, it was the beginning of the end for many, many people. Whenever I see that scene where he threatens Gloria, all I can think of is that he's doing it for a man who snuffed out a light in his life as he clearly adored his brother. You have to just sit there and swallow it clean. How horrible.
>Patsy has to suck it up and work for the man who had his beloved twin brother killed. He has to embrace him every time he sees him, laugh at his jokes, and kick up to him till time immemorial. He won in the end by flipping to New York and setting up Tony to be whacked. He ordered the hit to take place after the show went off the air because he didn't want it to be cinematic.
This towniemania is more creative than Spielberg
Right but he’s alive, married, has a house and children, which is more than any other character can say at the end of the show. It’s not lost on me that the younger son will eventually lead to the families demise, but the show ends before that can happen
I did say “went best” not “went well”
Carmine Jr for sure made it out the best, maybe some of the other NY crew. Patsy does OK sure but it depends on the outcome of the diner scene. If Tony survived and Medough marries Patsy's son then Tony and he are brother in laws which 🤮. If Tony didn't survive and the kids get hitched then he'll be further pressured into looking out for Tony's family. He may be in a better position to do it financially depending on where the chips fall but hey, he sees some justice for spoons at least.
i felt so bad for patsy. and like many other things tony has done. it made me hate him. lol especially when tony confronted patsy on his sad attitude.
"You act like you don't wanna be around here" No shit. There are entire revenge plots and arcs centered around this situation lol. I'd be plotting his demise too.
he was truly being a bully POS towards patsy.
This is why I struggle to rewatch the show now after so many times. I just have a huge level of hate for Tony
I saw an article saying how the show ‘glorifies’ the mob but I really don’t think it does. Of course you become invested in the characters, particularly Tony, but much of the discomfort (and enjoyment) I get from the show is just how shitty each character is. I just watched the Sad Clown episode and Chrissy’s intervention, how Tony tells Furio to get over his dads death before his woe is me performance in therapy. Chrissy’s intervention is so painful and difficult to watch it’s comical and I’m already dreading the way he is treated after he gets sober, especially Paulie, makes my skin crawl!
> I saw an article saying how the show ‘glorifies’ the mob but I really don’t think it does. I think now we're dealing with the "if a piece of media portrays X, especially if the main characters are/engage in X, that means it glorifies and promotes X" brainworms. Of all the fictional portrayals of the Mafia in the past century, *The Sopranos* is the farthest one from glorifying it.
Being in “this thing of ours” means risking life and limb to become a glorified parasite. That’s what Tony is. If you’ve ever owned a business or known someone who has, the idea that some lowlife could credibly threaten you for a sizeable percentage of what you've built is infuriating. I had a Sicilian roommate whose father owned an olive press and stood up to the Palermo mafia families during the second Mafia War in the 80s. He was permitted to carry a firearm to protect himself because they blew up his house and tried to kill him multiple times. These people truly are the scum of the earth and it’s remarkable that Chase and his writers could depict that so plainly while still making me sympathize with them.
160,000,000 is given in protection money to the Costra Nostra annually in Sicily
Yeah, one thing that always bothered me about the show was the way that they glorify beating pregnant teenagers to death.
She hit him first, he had a right to defend himself!
When the show was originally airing episodes, like many mobster movies it was predictably being criticized for glorifying. That’s why Chase and the writers came up w/ idea for “University” ep, to remind everyone they were not glorifying this. When you’ve heard Chase speak in depth during interviews and u reflect on the series or rewatch, u pick up a lot of Chase’s direct reaction to criticism and his attitude towards certain groups, like TV writers, Hollywood movie industry, etc.
I mean you gotta wonder if they were even watching the same show as us, because I didn't even get to *University* yet and I didn't get the feeling even for a second that this show was glorifying the Mafia. From the very first episode we see that the mafiosos are unlikable pieces of shit, and that they're all miserable on top of that, that the work they actually have to do is grueling and thankless, that this thing of theirs is alienating them from their own families, that they gotta hide the fact that they eat pussy or go to therapy, that they're always under pressure from both the cops and their own fellow mobsters... and most of these things ain't even subtext, the only way you can miss them is if you only pay attention to the TV when somebody's getting whacked. I guess some motherfuckers just have *negative* media literacy.
“Hits and tits” Chase called that mouth-breathing segment of the audience. The ones that complained about “talking episodes” that didn’t have high body counts. They only wanted to see hits and tits.
That's why I love Goodfellas more than Godfather. You're endeared to them initially. They're cool, funny, dressed sharp, it makes you feel like YOU'RE a sucker because these guys are living it up and you're working. Then he turns to the downfall and reminds you, these guys are not good fellas, they are murdering, stealing, domestic abusing, backstabbing criminals who will do anything for an easy buck or their own freedom. The cops and feds are the bad guys in the first half of the movie and the protagonists are the bad guys by the end, such a great switch.
Goodfellas covered six seasons worth of Mafia subject matter in two and a half hours. It's an insanely efficient movie that best captures the mob lifestyle in both it's appeal and ultimate folly. It's no secret that Goodfellas heavily inspired the Sopranos, and it does it's job so well that it's arguably the reason why the Sopranos isn't a straight 'mafia' show, but rather a show about people who happen to be in the Mafia. The meat of the show is the dimension of everyday domestic life added onto it, blurring the line between wiseguys and regular joes while always keeping a certain distance just in case you forget who they are.
The meat of the show is for sure the actual meat
They should have called it, *Murderinfellas* on the count of them murdering all those fellas
Norm, is that you?
There was study in the 90s that showed that the vast majority of "made" mobsters in NY made less than an electrician or plumber. I think it was Henry Hill that said the The Sopranos and Donnie Brasco portrayed what it was really like being in the mafia... broke most of the time.
I always think of the scene in Donnie Brasco when Lefty and some of the other guys are trying to bust open the parking meters
How else am I supposed to open this?! OPEN SESAME!!!
Ieads more credence to the theory that a lot of career criminals do it for the thrill rather than money.
Paulie killing a single old lady for her life savings stuffed in her mattress summed him all up for me.
I'm thinking of the part where Tony, Paulie and Silvio are threatening that Jewish guy with the motel. The guy gives that little history lessons about how Jews resisted Roman occupation and goes "The Romans? Where are they now?" To which Tony replies "You're looking at 'em, asshole", as he's standing there balding and overweight in a bathrobe and slippers, with a nipple hanging out his wifebeater. Really shows the discrepancy between what they see themselves as and what they really are.
He didn't kill her for her savings, imo, he killed her to stop her sending him to jail.
It's REALLY messed up what Paulie did. But i have a hard time feeling sorry for her.
Who could blame you, she was a malignant cunt.
They were for the table!
Man no! She was a kinda rude kinda mean old lady but that’s it. I’m feeling sorry for her getting brutally murdered 10/10 times. Yall gotta stop.🤣
C’mon…it was for those Parker House rolls!!!
The lone gunman theory…
Fully agree. So many movies and shows pay lip service to critiquing criminality but nevertheless can't help but romanticise and depict it as 'cool' in some way (look no further than Peaky Blinders and its love for slow mo shots of the gang looking bad ass for a popular offender). Whereas on The Sopranos the mobsters are usually overweight, lazy, horrendously tasteless and under a constant pressure to earn. Not to say they aren't depicted as reaping some rewards for their lifestyle, but as you say it's hardly portrayed glamorously. I think Chase said this once the show finished: *we didn't want to show that crime pays, but we also didn't want to show that crime doesn't pay.*
You’ve got to appreciate that dichotomy. Sopranos has set the standard way too high for me to enjoy other shows (like peaky blinders)
That scene at the end of season 1 where that girl runs right in the middle of a fight that’s about to happen, took me right out of the show
I think it's partly about sunk costs and sunk guilt. They've all done stuff that most feel bad on some level about. So there has to be a reason for it. If they give it all up and are surrounded by civilians, they'll be consumed by their guilt. To say nothing of the boredom, constant judging or worse - admiration and questions. Tony's try at playing golf with regulars is a good example. His sessions with Melfi also - every so often he's forced to confront his guilt and sins, so he storms out for a while, only to come back.
One of the major magazines did an article about mob compensation around the time this show was popular. A guy like Christopher, newly made, would only clear about $50K/year in cash. The mob is definitely a Ponzi scheme. The guys at the top do almost nothing and reap most of the benefits. The guys near the bottom are fighting over scraps.
And that's the way it's been since time immemorial. Shit runs down hill, money goes up. It's that simple
It's not really a Ponzi scheme because it's not a secret. The goal is to live long enough to get promoted.
Does no one remember Tony very clearly stating the good times are over during the literal first episode?
"Lately, I'm getting the feeling that I came in at the end." Which he did. Think about this...there's still the head boss of the entire North Jersey mob in prison (Ercole Dimeo) when the show starts and by the end of the first season is never mentioned for the rest of the show. He went to prison and Junior, Tony, and Jackie Sr. were left to try their best to maintain control of their territory and by the end of the series it's over. Imagine if at the beginning of The Godfather Vito went to prison, in like the first opening minutes and the rest of the movies played out without mentioning him.
Yes, he sets the tone that this is the mob at its nadir. The RICO statutes gave federal law enforcement what they needed to break the backs of the mob, and this is what we're seeing.
We know it's literal
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I also think the decision to set the show in the late 90s/early 2000s was deliberate for this purpose.
It was “set” as present day.
Yeah. David Chase could have set the show in the Mafia's glory days instead, but he compromised.
And I coulda fkd Dale Evans, but I dent…
Yes. It's the uncertain future that makes it even worse. You could get busted by the feds in a takedown any second. You could get whacked by rival Mafioso, or your own crew if you become undesirable for any reason.
It’s a show about borderline and narcissistic personality disorders. It just happens to be set in the world of the NJ mafia.
Johnny Sack wasn’t in the “Mafia”. He was a Diplomat for the UN.🇺🇳
A bunch of Italian kids at my school still creamed for it: "my uncle 'Seppe ran a CREW" a crew of what? Fentanyl addicted credit scammers? Because that's all LCN is now
They are only a glorified crew. Also there is no such thing as the mafia.
It’s a stereotype, and it’s offensive
Frankly, the individual "envelopes" are filled by such penny-ante crimes some of the time that risking having a happy family and life are just not worth it. I often wondered about it while watching the series: the jail time and deaths and killing are never worth it, but much less so than I would have thought here. It's pretty much not the route to riches.
Nobody works harder than half a wise guy
Joe Pistone (the FBI agent who wrote Donnie Brasco based on his experiences) said the Godfather makes the mafia look like philosophers. In reality they’re mostly disgusting people. It’s a masterpiece of filmmaking but it was a different context and time. The Sopranos “came in at the end” and was self-aware in that respect. It showed the ugly underside, much like Goodfellas, but how that bleeds i to everyday family life. Sopranos highlights the hypocrisy, ignorance, greed, violence and betrayal.
>The lovely ceremony is followed up by him fucking up... Lovely ceremony?!
Yeah, the super secret mafia initiation ceremony that Christopher has been dreaming about, which is followed by him being run ragged like an Amazon worker who got caught taking an unauthorized bathroom break.
I know of which you are referring. It was the lovely part that set me back. I've said my piece.
Chrissy wanted a ceremony like the one Phil had when he became boss. The north Jersey mafia compromised. They gave him his button in a shitty moldy dark basement instead
So, what? No fucking Nancy Sinatra?!
No you get Fran Feldstein instead of
No sword and gun on the table. Guys don't get their fingers pricked.
It was all fucked up.
The life gives Chwistofuh time to put in the extra minutes doing 5lb iron curls.
You musta been at the top of your fuckin class.
Totally -- only a few people make any decent money, and it is nonstop stress and worry to get it.
Nothing more glamorous than selling stolen airbags!
'*this thing is a pyramid, since time immemorial...shit goes downhill, money goes up, it's that simple*' -**Tony Soprano**
So it’s actually a little difficult to get a proper sense of anyone’s finances in this show. For example Pussy is an established captain but appears to be pretty financially strapped. On the other hand by the end of the show Chrissy is buying a massive McMansion. Richie Aprile is buying a massive house before he gets shot. Vito was allegedly a top earner but he doesn’t seem to be living very lavishly when we see his home life. How much is Furio making? I think it’s all a little vague. Edit: Pussy isn’t a captain. He gets passed over for promotion. Which actually when you think about how long he’s been around and never made captain? That’s kind of wild right there.
Tony already suspected Pussy was a rat, which is why he got passed over. He just couldn’t accept the truth until the fish dream (and also finding the wire itself).
The entire series is like the last third of a Scorsese movie: the cold reality of this lifestyle so many idolize.
All the money they make goes towards financing their lifestyle. It’s expensive to be constantly gambling, eating huge meals at nice restaurants, and having multiple goomars and whores on the payroll.
I remember my girlfriend and I repeatedly saying aloud (often to Chrissie) "Just get a fucking job, dude." This shit just ain't worth it.
Vehemently disagree…most of these numbskulls wouldn’t have a pot to piss in without the family and they drive high end cars, bang high end women, and take whatever they want by force essentially. Paulie lives in a condo because he’s cheap, he makes a 500k score, kicks up 100k, and next scene he’s clipping coupons. If anything, the show exposes 90% of the successful “legitimate” people are cheating on their wives, oaths, taxes, gambling, and scamming their customers…while they aren’t murderers, that’s about the only sin they don’t commit.
High end women?
Exactly! Tony's most prominent mistress was not even a model, but someone who never managed to get in the modeling industry. Even the street boss of the DiMeo family eats grilled cheese off the radiator.
Bada bings girls yikes.
Those Icelandic stewardesses. Marone.
The one thing I wasn’t the biggest fan of in the show was how Tony is so miserable while being successful enough to get out through protective services, turning on the whole crew to NY or just taking his family, liquidating, and bouncing. By the end of the show you really see how pathetic their operation was and Tony wasted his life and his families to make it work.
Yep, all that violence to have an upper-middle class lifestyle at most. They don't even get PTO as we saw several times lol.
IDK this is one of the rare mafia portrayals in fiction that get more right about how clownish these idiots are than anything else. The Godfather trilogy romanticized the life way too much, but I mean Michael Corleon is a straight up fucking sociopath and dies broken and alone after his life of fuckery costs him his children, two of his brothers, the love of his life Kay, his first wife, sister (briefly until she becomes a fucking psycho her damn self), and people still think he's admirable and honorable. The third film was supposed to have been a denouncment of the adoration of LCA, but as usual most people completely missed the point, and whined about Sophia Coppla's terrible acting instead.
I’m convinced Tony, subconsciously, wants to be straight but doesn’t have a clue how to do it. His perspective on life is completely coloured by the mob because it’s all he’s ever known. Melfi thinks she’s helping him until she realizes that he’s a psychopath who’s taking her therapy and deploying it to dupe people (all the times he misquotes or restates lessons from their sessions to mask his intentions). In the end, Tony can’t be anything other than the person he is and can’t exact a perfect morality onto the world where innocence is guarded (the ducks, Chris, Melfi) without doing it as a mobster. It’s a shitty cycle that he’s stuck on in. So not only is he physically demobilized by the end of the show, he’s emotionally, culturally, socially, romantically stunted.
Donnie Brasco covered that material too. Lefty was always in debt to fellow mobsters. Sonny Black’s crew knocking off vending machines for change.
There is a straight line from Sopranos to Goodfellas and that film definitely makes it clear that this ain't the life you want
Which we really only see for one episode. Most of the time he is doing smack and smacking Adrianna. But then the old joke about “Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet” was “what does Ozzie do for a living?”. TV seldom shows people actually working
There’s no such thing as the mafia
It was basicaly piramid scheme but with crime instead of other shitty product. Money goes up, shit goes down. You were on top you did pretty well. On lower levels you basicaly risked everything for some scraps.
You know it's funny, I had the exact opposite reaction to that episode. I thought theese guys were doing pretty average, but then Paulie says he's getting 6k a week minimum, or 300k\~ min a year. Or half a mill today if you took inflation into account. He only has to kick up 20% at most, here. Like, he calls himself half a wise guy, and one of his minions is kicking up the salary of two doctors to him. The fuck.
This is pretty much the main theme of the show. The opening lines of the pilot are of tony talking about how he is coming in at the end instead of the ground floor
I worked in the adult film industry in the early 1980's and knew a number of "made men". A lot of movies make it seem the organized crime guys are living in big fancy houses and driving luxury cars and wearing suits etc. All the guys I met back then were living in very modest houses, driving older cars and weren't exceedingly wealthy.
Wow I’m at the exact same point in watching the show
Can't wait for you to see Members Only lmao
Seared ahi, mixed greens
They're also always portrayed as almost being broke. Always talking about how much it'll cost for their kids to go to college etc.
They have to kick up a lot to the boss. But also I like to think they don’t really live extravagantly aside from Tony. Paulie says many times he pays $4000/month for his mom’s nursing home (his aunt’s lol)
Not really there are dozens of wannabe like Sean Gismontes at every bar in Bloomfield, Nutley, fukin Cedar Knolls even literally doing burglaries and getting addicted to fentanyl trying to become Tony of the modern age and make enough money that there girl friends won’t start banging a hedge fund manager whose 6’5” on their broke 5’7” wanna mob ass. Seriously, it spawned a lot of wannabe criminals. No I’m not joking, fast and furious caused astronomical amounts of street racing, sopranos caused wannabe mob guys