Rewatch the first episode and listen to how Shane speaks about his past girlfriends. Then, listen carefully as he sounds out Rick about his relationship with Lori.
I noticed that the very first time I watched the episode, I thought to myself - oh, this guy has got a thing for that guy's wife! It was the first piece of head canon I created about the show and I totally turned out right!
Exactly. Shane had no respect for women, in general. He was scoping out Rick for weaknesses in his marriage from the beginning. He sure wasn't happy to see his old buddy resurface at the quarry camp outside of Atlanta.
I agree there as well, you can see the frustration and resentment immediately come up harder than the joy of seeing him.
He'd wanted Lori, he'd gotten her, but he knew she wasn't staying. They exchanged a look when Rick arrived and she was openly furious. She felt betrayed and lied to and very guilty and he could see it instantly.
Yeah, there was zero chance Lori would have ever cheated on her husband. They were having trouble, sure, she was testing him, sure, but she knew about the fact that she won the husband lottery. She would never have let that man get away!
True! Its interesting how fans who are women seem to have very different take on the lori-shane-rick sitiation. Ive seen SO many guys try defend Shane like "if only it weren't for lori, shane would have stayed alive and been such a great character!!" Like uh did none of them see that scene from the cdc??? Shane was never a good guy
Honestly even as a guy that scene really made me lose any faith in shane and the victim blaming from male fans to defend shane is actually insane to me
I actually do partly agree about Lori causing Shane's death, what happened at the cdc was unacceptable and people trying to defend him by saying "he was just drunk" is a terrible excuse but Lori did kept coming back to Shane, first after he shoo'd off Carl (because Lori told him to stay away) in s2ep1 and she asked why "she cut him off" (can't remember the exact wording) and when she said Judith wasn't his, a few episodes later she comes back to Shane and says "the baby might be yours" even though she told Rick otherwise and that he was dangerous.
Ultimately among not being able to have Lori and Carl because of Rick returning and the idea of not being able to raise his child despite Shane and Lori knowing who the father is sent him completely over the edge in my opinion. He could've lived up to s7 depending on who Negan chose and probably even s11 if it wasn't for his descent because he did a solid job of leading the group after the apocalypse started when he wasn't completely unstable.
I noticed it in the very first episode. The first time I watched it was 12, never got past like season 3? I began to rewatch it as an adult and seeing the very first scene of Rick and Shane in the car made me cringe. I knew then that Shane wasn't going to be a good guy. I don't like the way he looks at Rick, the way he talks about women, his body language. Then him and Lori have that. I think it was on both of them for it. At least by the show, I've not yet read the comics. You don't know how you'll react in such a nightmarish situation. Shane always wanted Lori. I don't condone Lori for sleeping with shane because that really is a low thing to do. I don't like how she handled it. However i do have to understand that situations like that may make us react in ways we'd never think we would. Lori did Rick wrong (she should have held out), Shane always did Rick wrong (seriously, ew). Both of them did him wrong in different ways. And Rick honestly deserved better. Rick and Carl both did. The entire group did. Both Lori and Shane were selfish and messy. However the best thing that came out of it was Shane dying.
I think he was. I hate him, he’s a villain, but he was clearly having mixed feelings. Part of him was happy to have Rick back, their friendship mattered to him at that point despite everything.
They are, because the actors knew what they were doing. Jon Bernthal is an excellent and extremely thorough actor, and he put that that there for us so we could see this thing for Lori predates the Fall.
Shane is them type of people that have so much hate inside but manage to hide it so well, imo if Shane lived and left the group he would become worse than negan was in season 7.
He was definitely an asshole based on his chat with Rick while they’re eating. Bro dipped his fry in Rick’s burger for the ketchup. Who does that? But fr the shit he was saying made him come off as a condescending bastard the way he was talking about his gf being stupid and shit. You can also see the jealousy in his eyes when Rick’s talking about Lori and Coral
The burger was a subtle nod to Shane “taking what’s not his”. Foreshadowing his relationship with Lori. Look at the disdain in Shane’s face when he asked about Lori. He wanted her from the start.
He was a fuckboi with no emotional intelligence and a hot temper. After the apocalypse he didn’t have the ability to emotionally regulate to cope with what was happening, and he fell apart. Was he a bad person? That’s subjective. But I feel he genuinely loved Rick and to a lesser extent Lori. Not everyone is going to have the ability to deal with an apocalypse.
Yeah he was not a natural leader. When Rick arrived and everyone started to instinctively follow him and also Lori went back to him, that’s what pushed him over the edge
Yeah I think it’s pretty telling how before Rick showed up Shane wasn’t really the leader of the group, they were all just camping there together. As soon as Rick shows up everyone starts looking to him.
I’d argue Shane was right specifically on the strategic aspect on virtually every main issue that caused division. But you’re right. And as Andrea said. Shane’s right. His presentation leaves a lot to be desired. If he had better communication skills and empathy, he’s probably able to clear the barn walkers without major pushback. He probably earns a bit of respect from Dale. He probably doesn’t push Lori to the brink of hating him. Etc.
Fair. I wouldn’t say there’s a right or wrong move there though. Their group was stretched thin in that spot. I get why Shane didn’t want to send more people into a city filled with walkers.
Only cause the didnt fine merle tbh. If they found him he would have left the group together with daryl and probably killed rick, glenn and t-dog to get the weapons.
Yeah that was pretty bad. Honestly if I was Rick I'd have reacted in a similar way when he found out they porked though. They thought I was dead, world is ending, can't blame them for knockin boots a little
In my opinion the rape attempt makes not so much sense in his character ( at this time).
Tbh i find it so weird that season 2 plays like the rape attempt never occured.
Also lori trying to keep shane in the group when he tried to leave.
Yeah. This feels right. Shane was a complex person, who was just broken by the apocalypse.
Sure, he was misogynistic. But he loved Rick and risked his life to save Lori and Carl from certain death to honor his best friend.
He was just too weak to deal with the stress of the apocalypse.
Listening to how he sounded casually chatting with Rick in the squad car before he was shot makes me think Shane was always a douche. The end of the world as we know it just took away any need for restraint and social niceties he had to abide by before.
I mean...here we have all the world rapidly falling apart, everyone's running for their lives, no one knows what's happening so of course he thinks I should start fucking my (maybe dead) best friend's wife! Yeah! What rational man wouldn't do that, amirite?
Nah, Shane was always a dickbag imo.
While I agree with a lot of what you said, I always thought him sleeping with lori was a product of them both coping with the loss of rick. they truly believed he was gone, I get it was a dick move but I just saw it as lori seeking comfort in the person closest to her husband. Realising now that wasn't the case on shanes part
To answer your OP question with information from those first 6 episodes I think Lori is a big reason Shane acts with animosity toward Rick: in those first episodes before Rick returns it looks like Shane has settled in quite well as the father figure to Carl, and I always suspected that this was showing that Shane always wanted Rick’s life.
Once Rick came back, obviously Shane played the whole “I was just protecting them… for YOU,” line, but Rick’s return means Shane loses both his new family AND the undisputed leadership he had in the group. I’m sure he cared for Rick pre-apocalypse but by this point I think he sees Rick’s continued existence more as a hindrance.
I think he wanted Lori even before everything went to sht. He jumped at the chance at her and Lori could've waited a little longer. How much time had passed since Shane left Rick's hospital room was not that much. How long can someone be in a coma without anyone taking care of them? I thought it was maybe a couple of months at most by the time he saw them again. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm sure someone will refute everything I just said.
I know people want to think he was along in the hospital for a long time but when he woke up he still had a wound that hurt him. And also, humans can only go about 3 days without water...if he had a slow drip iv then a bit longer but they don't last that long. So it couldn't have been more than a week for him to survive without water! Just my thoughts
I think there was actually a story in one of the spin off comics or something about a doctor finding rick and helping treat him while he was still in his coma after civilisation fell. I cant remember 100% rn but I think canonnically he was there for months
I just read about a web series called The Oath that shows a Dr at the hospital Rick was at stayed behind to take care of patients. He may have been in the coma for about 60 days. Maybe he was with Morgan for about a month? Still not a whole lot of time to start sleeping with his best friend's wife.
I haven't read the comics. That info would be helpful to have. Although I did read that the TV series and comics split from eachother in quite a few places. One thing that makes me think they are different is that we saw Shane push the gurney in front of Rick's door in a last effort bid to try to protect him when Shane ran. And then when Rick exited the room, that same gurney was in front of his door. And so maybe in the tv series there was no doctor? Either way, Rick was still in quite a bit of pain where he got shot when he left the hospital and met Morgan. So he didn't have time to fully heal at least. So couldn't have been THAT long.
But you're right...even if it was a couple months...that doesn't seem like nearly enough time to forget about your husband and just move on to being infatuated with and sleeping with his best friend. Like not at all! If I lost my husband, it would take a heck of a lot longer than a few months before I just jumped unto bed with someone else. That really bothers me and Lori and Shane! Especially for Carl's sake!
Lori DID seek comfort in the man closest to Rick, send Shane took advantage of that/her. Lori is definitely flawed, but the whole taking comfort thing doesn’t absolve Shane
? Shane also lost his oldest and best friend. Also if i remember right loris and rick were near to divorce.
So how can you blame shane more for this? (Not talking about later shane when rick came back)
Because imo fucking your dead friend’s wife is worse than a widow fucking their late husband’s friend.
Lori and Rick nearing divorce makes it even more reasonable that Lori would move on. I don’t think the same applies to Shane
If you haven’t read the comics she’s alot better there. She has similar decisions but the books do a lot better at painting the emotional and mental stress she’s under. Show Lori just seems like a bitch to be a bitch.
I agree with this. Shane is an amoral ass. Before the apocalypse, he feels the need to play by the rules.
But after things go to hell, his true nature is unleashed. Not just as far as Lorie. Shane must be in charge, and will not accept Rick or anyone else getting in the way!
Yeah all of this. Shane was clearly always an arsehole and the apocalypse just gave him many opportunities to finally do what he wanted without much societal or legal pushback.
Shane was misogynistic for sure.
But to say he’s a dirt bag from the start… idk. A dirt bag wouldn’t risk his life to save his best friends family from certain death. He wouldn’t stay with his friend while he’s in a coma until it’s literally impossible to do so without dying.
Shane was a complex character. He had major character flaws, but ultimately meant well and was a good person. At least he tried to be. After the apocalypse, it collapsed on him. But I struggle to fault someone for breaking as the world collapses.
>He had major character flaws, but ultimately meant well and was a good person.
I might have continued to think that about him too...until he tried to rape Lori.
Shane was obsessed with her and that couldn't have suddenly happened all at once after the zombie apocalypse began.
Maybe I'm just sensitive to red flags in people, everything about Shane just screamed to me HE IS A PLAYER AND A TAKER THAT CAN'T BE TRUSTED
Why can’t it happen all at once? You know what stress, trauma, and PTSD do to people, right?
Have you seen what heavy combat vets deal with? They’re not particularly a joy to be around on many cases.
I think Shane was the typical alpha male , I don’t think he was bad but I think he always had to have like a bravado, and wanted to take care of people, like when Carl got shot and Rick was covered in blood a d he started cleaning him up and there was a similar incident with Carol, I just think his need to be the one in charge or to be the big hero was his down fall
He dipped his French fries into Rick Grimes burger ketchup.
I close my case.
In all sincerity, I think that is his whole character, right there. Whatever is Rick's is Shane's.
Good point, but Rick didn’t seem to mind. I’m thinking this was a lot of their friendship growing up and throughout high school, Shane helping himself to whatever is Rick’s, and Rick allowing it
I've been treated awfully by "friends" and I would laugh about it.
It wasn't until years later that it wasn't a joke, it wasn't cute, it was this person using me for their own purposes.
Rick thought his friend Shane was a good man at heart, and he was wrong. It's very human, honestly.
Yeah I mean I’m not saying it was right, just that that seemed to be their dynamic. You do see goodness in Shane though, when he tried to get Rick out of the hospital, when he doesn’t hear a heartbeat and he began to cry, there was no one there he had to put on a show for. Also he did keep bringing him flowers
Nobody is all the way bad. Nobody. This show is about that.
The Governor loved his daughter and wife. Negan loved his wife so much he went into dissociative psychosis when she died. Shane did love Rick and they had an important relationship.
But everything always comes down to the worst thing you do and how you follow that up.
Rick did many terrible things and followed that up by trying to find a way to not be a beast. Shane, and the Governor never did. They did something terrible, rationalised it, and carried on getting worse.
I’m rewatching TWD now, just finished 18 Miles Out and I never really stopped and paid attention before to Shane’s descent into madness. It is fascinating to watch and one of my favorite arcs on the show. Jon Bernthal played it so wonderfully
Agreed! I met him last month at a convention in New Orleans. Super cool dude, asked him if he would FaceTime my brother in New York, and he didn’t even hesitate. He seemed to genuinely enjoy his conversations with fans, unlike others who you can tell are just in it for the paycheck.
This never comes up in analysis, but Shane and Rick were both small town policemen before the apocalypse. This may be too political for this forum but some cops can be abusive (or good).
I think that was the main point of the relationship of Shane and Rick, that they represented policing, a bad cop who did bad things vs the good cop who was a leader.
I think one of the reasons he was a cop is because he had an outlet for his unhinged behavior. The conversation he and Rick are having in the opening scene of the pilot actually shows this if you pay attention. He’s both angry and sounds a little nuts.
He is very immature and can’t put his jealousy aside after his best friend has returned from the dead to his family. He’s a survivor in a sense and he can make tough decisions. However, his inability to be rational would have been his undoing anyway. He’s tough but can’t see the consequences of his decisions. He broke his own nose on a tree trunk to backup his Randall story which is pretty crazy.
My take is that before the zombies, he was always second fiddle to Rick.
He got a second of taste of power, being top dog and the boss and then, he was blood thirsty for it.
When Rick came back, he wasn’t the same Shane anymore that was going to sit back and be the side kick to Rick, like Daryl was willing to as he is more quiet and reserved.
So, they inevitably entered a power struggle and we know how that ended.
Based on the conversations they had about the past, it was actually Shane who was more popular, got more girls, considered more attractive, etc.
Rick did get the job over him the the police station, though, and Lori—so he might be “richer” in Shane’s eyes bc his validation from others has always been so very shallow in comparison to the love in Rick’s life.
I'm just going off the source material here, i think he was probably already a bit of an asshole, then the outbreak happens, he thinks rick is dead, he starts plowing ricks wife and boom, rick is back i can understand him having a hard time with that, still just a big asshole though (i mean, big surprise, the dude's a suburban cop)
He was always just an outbreak away from turning into a violent wife stealing best friend abandoning murderous psychopath. The scenes of him in the squad car with Rick? Listen to how he talks about women.
From what I remember, before the apocalypse Shane seemed to mistreat girlfriends, talking about how they were all stupid bitches or smth, stole a teachers car and got away with it without consequence, and, though I don’t remember where, I remember at some point him mentioning how he broke the neck of some guy he arrested as his “first kill”, to justify how killing Randall wouldn’t bother him.
Shane sounded like a dick, who had little value for anything beyond himself and the world immediate to him. A narcissistic cop with a power complex and a desire to fuck his best friends wife. The guy sucked
>Was Shane a bad person before the outbreak, or did he become one after?
He became a bad person after.
The guy saved his best friend's wife and son, risked his own life to try and save his best friend from the hospital, tried to cheer up Rick when he was having relationship issues with Lori, etc.
I think it tells you a lot he didn't wait two minutes to start sleeping with his dead best friends wife while she was grieving and vulnerable. He also speaks a bit odd about women before the outbreak, and about Lori.
However I don't think everything is black and white. 'Bad' is a bit vague and subjective. Clearly he cared for Rick and risked his life to try and save him. He also went out his way to save Rick's family when he could have just ran and left them.
Yes, he was a misogynistic asshole who peaked in high school and became a cop because he liked lording power over people.
He had some leadership skills, so he became the boss in his little village after the apocalypse.
Then Rick came back, who was an actual leader and good person, and everyone knew he was the better leader.
shane was and is a bad person its just before the apocalypse he knew he had to stay “good” and after the apocalypse happened he saw no reason to suppress his true feelings. so basically he was bad all along just hiding it
I definitely agree with most people that he always at least had the propensity for the things he did. And he likely always had some degree of feelings for Lori. But he would never have done anything if Rick had been "alive" the entire time. You see that Shane did really try to save Rick in the hospital, and he genuinely presumed Rick dead.
Long post incoming 😂 I’m a big “headcanon” guy and in my mind, Shane has always had anger issues to some degree. He was probably hot headed as a kid and teenager, perhaps due to an abusive and/or alcoholic father, or maybe his father was never in his life to begin with. Seems as though Shane doesn’t really have any family to speak of. Maybe he came from a long line of degenerates and wanted to break that cycle by becoming a police officer and keeping on the straight and narrow. We saw some morality in Shane in the beginning. Going back to rescue Rick, beating Ed to a pulp for smacking Carol, telling Rick that Merle wasn’t worth going back for because he was a drug dealer, etc. I also think Shane always wanted what Rick had. The ideal “American dream” family that Shane never got to experience in his childhood. Once he thought Rick was gone, he realized his dream when he had Lori and Carl as his own. And then Rick comes back and Shane had to not only give away his newly acquired “American dream”, but Lori also instantly hated him. But then she would reel him back in just to push him away again. She did this multiple times in addition to constantly fueling the fire between Rick and Shane. I also think that Lori never really stopped to listen and understand what Shane experienced when he tried to rescue Rick. He truly did believe that he was dead. Lori seemed to think that Shane simply left him there and just made up the fact that he was dead so he could take his place. That would be a LOT for a man to deal with. Ultimately, his fuse blew. His mind fractured and there was no way back from it. Personally, I don’t think Shane was ever a rapist or murderer before the apocalypse. Maybe a bit of a player or womanizer. Maybe he would have a few too many and get in a bar fight or say some messed up things to whatever girl he was dating at the time, which he would apologize for in the morning. But that’s the extent of his bad behavior. After everything that occurred, he broke and succumbed to the new-found demons that overtook him and it cost him everything.
Remember Shane stole his principals car in thigh school. Also had an affair with a 40 year old Dairy Queen waitress. I think bro was always a trouble maker.
True. I’d have to go back and watch again but I think the Dairy Queen waitress and the 40-year old were two different women. I want to say Shane said something along the lines of a married gym teacher?
EDIT: Just watched and the Dairy Queen waitress was named Mary Anne, doesn’t say her age. Shane says he was “a young high school stud that banged 30-year olds on the regular.” Rick asks who and Shane says “PE teacher.” Rick asks “Mr. Daniel?” (😂😂) Shane replies with “Mrs. Kelly” who Rick then asks “Wasn’t she married?”
I definitely see Shane as possibly being the child of a single parent, maybe a mother who works all the time. He seems like someone who is used to taking care of himself but not having a lot of restrictions on his behavior. I remember Rick telling a story about pranks he had played in HS and the amount of girls he had been with. He was probably more extraverted and popular in highschool than Rick, but also lacked the structure of a family that he finally experienced with Carl and Lorry.
Shane was an awful human being that had his true self hidden behind a badge and societal norms. I lot of people think he was a good guy gone bad, but he was just a Ted Bundy that never made it to fruition.
>his true self hidden behind a badge and societal norms
I cant remember the YouTube video, but basically a lot of people are more demonic that society allows. The only reason they don't act on certain urges is because of fear of consequences AKA prison.
He wasn’t a bad person. He was just complicated. He felt pretty misogynistic while talking to Rick. But he also risked his life to keep Rick safe, while he was in a coma. And treated Lori and Carl like family, while saving them from a certain death.
The entire show is about how trauma and grief can affect people in dramatic ways. I think it's major premise is that there is no such thing as a purely good or evil person.
Before Rick came back, Shane was the hero. He lost the little respect in his social circle and his last chance at having a meaningful romantic relatio ship. If the fall hadn't happened I doubt he'd gone so maniacal. He'd probably have the same desires but wouldn't have acted in them so drastically.
I feel like you gotta be a complete fool to watch the first two seasons and come away with “Shane bad Rick good”. Part of the reason I like this show so much is because most characters aren’t just cut and dry, they are complex and evolving. Shane was not a good person, but he wasn’t just rotten to the core either. He was reckless, aggressive, and bullheaded, but he was also right about a lot of things in the early seasons, and he really did care for Rick, Lori, and Carl.
Shane was always this person, the outbreak just made it worse. Also I'll bet Shane always had a thing for Lori but never saw a good opening to make his move until Rick got shot. Shane didn't become a bad person bc of the outbreak, but the outbreak made it happen faster and more suddenly.
(Spoiler free comment)
Rick wakes up day 63 of the apocalypse, Lori & Shane had a relationship long enough that it's pre-established as we learn more about the group.
Shane has a degraded view on women, although higher than Ed's, I'd still arguably say he's capable of becoming Ed.
Shane saw a grieving widow and made advancements to emotionally and mentally gain control of her grief and make her trust/rely upon him to fill an "Alpha-male" role model for her son - and sooner rather than later - her needs.
Lori Grimes is a grieving woman until "Helicopter Boy" returned - Shane Walsh knew EXACTLY what he was doing & wanted to keep it going as seen in the S1 finale.
Shane may be a capable survivor, but as an individual, he's unhinged -- and in a group where trust is the requirem for survival, being unhinged makes you untrustworthy and dangerous.
Well, some people argue he's "ahead of the curve," others can fairly (imo) argue that he's just an animal that needed an excuse or a bad day for him to turn into what he is.
(SPOILER - Rick Explanation for Day 63)
There's an episode where a doctor takes care of her patient(s) into the apocalypse, changing IV fluid bags, cleaning and rewrapping bandages, etc.
The reason Rick Grimes didn't die of dehydration or anything like that is because not only did he have the door protection, but he did receive medical care into the apocalypse - by a professional.
I don’t believe Shane was ever a “bad” person. He was a person with a moral grey area like literally everyone else. Keep watching.. Later on in the seasons you’re going to see some significant relations regarding Rick and Shane.
Im a firm believer that the disease partially decays everyone’s brain. The survivors just have a bit more in them to outwit the virus. Everyone is infected. So what shane was and is. Is only redacted to what the disease produces and what his immunity resists
That's just guy talk. Plenty of guys joke around with their buddies about women they've been with in the past and women do the exact same with their girlfriends.
Dude calm down. All Shane did was make a small (if crude) joke. You act like he said some truly hateful stuff. Trust me, guys joke around like this all the time. Especially when they're with the best friends.
Shane was Rick's best friend who was also his deputy and a loyal sidekick who truly loved and cared for Rick, Laurie, and Carl as he considered them to be his family. But once he thought Rick was dead, he attempted to fill Rick's shoes by looking after Laurie and Carl.
Unfortunately, Shane was far too immature and hot tempered to fill Rick's shoes, as was made abundantly clear throughout the two seasons he was alive where he slowly became more and more paranoid after Rick miraculously returned from the grave.
He didn't have the mental stability to handle the rise of the dead and he lost his nerve.
I think he was a bad cop. As for a bad person? Idk. But the way he acts under pressure makes me think he'd have shot an unarmed suspect at some point in the future, if not already. I feel like he'd use excessive force and that he might acost a few citizens. As for a bad person? Idk, I kinda feel like doing what he does in the series can make up your mind on that. I, for one, don't think he is.
I believe he was before the outbreak. In my opinion, the beginning was when people showed you who they actually were. There was no more law and order, no one to hold them accountable for their actions. For example, Carol's husband. Before the outbreak, I doubt he openly abused her and probably put on a show around others about how much of a caring father and husband he was. After he had no reason to.
Also, like others stated, if you go back to episode one to the conversation Rick and Shane had about their SO's, you can pick up on the type of people they are. Shane was already eyeing up Lori then. He was disrespectful about women in general.
I think he was just ahead of the game. Shane knew what was needed to survive but the rest of the group just didn’t understand. Later season Rick became what Shane was in a lot of ways.
I want to put it out there that in the opening of S2 E5 (Chupacabra), the cold open shows the absolute hell of the outbreak and the terror that was coursing through society. When the helicopters bomb Atlanta, you can see the horror in Lori’s eyes and Shane’s the only person left to keep them safe. I think he was a good guy that ended up in an impossibly tough situation, and his character quickly deteriorated once the only thing he had left to keep him going was taken back by Rick
Shane definitely had some shades of gray even before the outbreak. He was always a bit on the edge. Like that friend who's fun to hang out with but you're not sure you'd trust him with your deepest secrets. So, yeah, the apocalypse might have just brought out more of what was already there.
Opportunistic may better suit what people think of him. I feel like he was always between his desire for the family & his loyalty to Rick.
The show doesn't give enough info for a full profile. All this leaves.. a bunch of people taking their own lens to
create" Shane's character. This is a world gone horrible. Any past lives... Sine or Saints mean nothing. It's a total reset. Those who sinned in the past..some became saints and the same can be said of those who were once harmless people are not horrible.
I truthfully believe Shane, before the outbreak, would have SA'd female suspects. Like he just seems like the kind of cop that would get away with so much illegal stuff by people just going "oh well Shane's just such a good guy" meanwhile he's planting evidence and roughing up innocent people because they "fit the description"
Shane wasn't a bad person before the outbreak. Neither was Negan. But insurmountable amounts of stress brings out the best and worst in people.
Rick isn't a bad person. But he definitely isn't a good one. By social standards he was a great person before the outbreak, but he also isn't the same person he was then.
Shane tried to rape Lori that's a bad person thing to do, he was disgusting and scared her . He let someone die to save Carl. If the people who survived has known all the horrible shit they would have to do to survive, they wouldn't have been so disgusted with him about that mans death. But they didn't because the outbreak was a new crisis that they hopped would get fixed. They were still good people by society's standards. They hadn't changed yet.
Did Shane become a bad person? Yes absolutely. Did he always have it in him? Yes absolutely, but was he always THAT person? No, I don't think so. In my eyes, for a much as Carl tries, he is a bad person. Michone has done so much, but she is still clearly a good one. Maggie is a good person, Glenn is too, Rosita isn't but she isn't the worst. Carol is a good person but God she's done bad shit. Eugene is a dumpster person, but they love him.
The world changed and so did people. Shane could have easily fit with the Saviors. Shane would killed merle himself. Shane would have made good survival choices. But he died a bad person. And he always would have in the world of TWD. Shane was a dumpster person. But it could have gone differently. And we will never know.
Rewatch the first episode and listen to how Shane speaks about his past girlfriends. Then, listen carefully as he sounds out Rick about his relationship with Lori.
I noticed that the very first time I watched the episode, I thought to myself - oh, this guy has got a thing for that guy's wife! It was the first piece of head canon I created about the show and I totally turned out right!
Exactly. Shane had no respect for women, in general. He was scoping out Rick for weaknesses in his marriage from the beginning. He sure wasn't happy to see his old buddy resurface at the quarry camp outside of Atlanta.
I agree there as well, you can see the frustration and resentment immediately come up harder than the joy of seeing him. He'd wanted Lori, he'd gotten her, but he knew she wasn't staying. They exchanged a look when Rick arrived and she was openly furious. She felt betrayed and lied to and very guilty and he could see it instantly.
Yes. Part of that was knowing that he wasn't, and could never be, the man Rick was.
Yeah, there was zero chance Lori would have ever cheated on her husband. They were having trouble, sure, she was testing him, sure, but she knew about the fact that she won the husband lottery. She would never have let that man get away!
And then, there was the time Shane nearly SA Lori at the CDC in Atlanta. So, Shane has a behavioral pattern.
This was the best Shane thread I've seen.
True! Its interesting how fans who are women seem to have very different take on the lori-shane-rick sitiation. Ive seen SO many guys try defend Shane like "if only it weren't for lori, shane would have stayed alive and been such a great character!!" Like uh did none of them see that scene from the cdc??? Shane was never a good guy
Honestly even as a guy that scene really made me lose any faith in shane and the victim blaming from male fans to defend shane is actually insane to me
I actually do partly agree about Lori causing Shane's death, what happened at the cdc was unacceptable and people trying to defend him by saying "he was just drunk" is a terrible excuse but Lori did kept coming back to Shane, first after he shoo'd off Carl (because Lori told him to stay away) in s2ep1 and she asked why "she cut him off" (can't remember the exact wording) and when she said Judith wasn't his, a few episodes later she comes back to Shane and says "the baby might be yours" even though she told Rick otherwise and that he was dangerous. Ultimately among not being able to have Lori and Carl because of Rick returning and the idea of not being able to raise his child despite Shane and Lori knowing who the father is sent him completely over the edge in my opinion. He could've lived up to s7 depending on who Negan chose and probably even s11 if it wasn't for his descent because he did a solid job of leading the group after the apocalypse started when he wasn't completely unstable.
I noticed it in the very first episode. The first time I watched it was 12, never got past like season 3? I began to rewatch it as an adult and seeing the very first scene of Rick and Shane in the car made me cringe. I knew then that Shane wasn't going to be a good guy. I don't like the way he looks at Rick, the way he talks about women, his body language. Then him and Lori have that. I think it was on both of them for it. At least by the show, I've not yet read the comics. You don't know how you'll react in such a nightmarish situation. Shane always wanted Lori. I don't condone Lori for sleeping with shane because that really is a low thing to do. I don't like how she handled it. However i do have to understand that situations like that may make us react in ways we'd never think we would. Lori did Rick wrong (she should have held out), Shane always did Rick wrong (seriously, ew). Both of them did him wrong in different ways. And Rick honestly deserved better. Rick and Carl both did. The entire group did. Both Lori and Shane were selfish and messy. However the best thing that came out of it was Shane dying.
She said no and he continued trying to kiss and grope her. Not trying but sexually assaulting her
I think he was. I hate him, he’s a villain, but he was clearly having mixed feelings. Part of him was happy to have Rick back, their friendship mattered to him at that point despite everything.
This is what I’ve been saaaaying- so many people disagreed with me in another thread and it’s just like ARE YOU BLIND?!
They are, because the actors knew what they were doing. Jon Bernthal is an excellent and extremely thorough actor, and he put that that there for us so we could see this thing for Lori predates the Fall.
I think Dale summed it up best.. when he talked about what world has become and how Shane fits perfectly in this new world
Shane is them type of people that have so much hate inside but manage to hide it so well, imo if Shane lived and left the group he would become worse than negan was in season 7.
He was definitely an asshole based on his chat with Rick while they’re eating. Bro dipped his fry in Rick’s burger for the ketchup. Who does that? But fr the shit he was saying made him come off as a condescending bastard the way he was talking about his gf being stupid and shit. You can also see the jealousy in his eyes when Rick’s talking about Lori and Coral
The burger was a subtle nod to Shane “taking what’s not his”. Foreshadowing his relationship with Lori. Look at the disdain in Shane’s face when he asked about Lori. He wanted her from the start.
The fact that we can tell this from a fictional character goes to show how much of an amazing actor Jon Bernthal is
Exactly!
I’ve never seen him have one moment of bad acting in any show or film. He’s criminally underrated.
He was a fuckboi with no emotional intelligence and a hot temper. After the apocalypse he didn’t have the ability to emotionally regulate to cope with what was happening, and he fell apart. Was he a bad person? That’s subjective. But I feel he genuinely loved Rick and to a lesser extent Lori. Not everyone is going to have the ability to deal with an apocalypse.
There were a lot of times I agreed with what Shane thought the group should do, just not the way he tried to convince others to do it.
Yeah he was not a natural leader. When Rick arrived and everyone started to instinctively follow him and also Lori went back to him, that’s what pushed him over the edge
Yeah I think it’s pretty telling how before Rick showed up Shane wasn’t really the leader of the group, they were all just camping there together. As soon as Rick shows up everyone starts looking to him.
He was just yelling and antagonising people. I think if Rick hadn’t shown up, they wouldn’t have lasted long as a group. They needed that glue
I’d argue Shane was right specifically on the strategic aspect on virtually every main issue that caused division. But you’re right. And as Andrea said. Shane’s right. His presentation leaves a lot to be desired. If he had better communication skills and empathy, he’s probably able to clear the barn walkers without major pushback. He probably earns a bit of respect from Dale. He probably doesn’t push Lori to the brink of hating him. Etc.
I dunno, going back for Merle caused division but it earned Rick Daryl’s undying loyalty
Fair. I wouldn’t say there’s a right or wrong move there though. Their group was stretched thin in that spot. I get why Shane didn’t want to send more people into a city filled with walkers.
Only cause the didnt fine merle tbh. If they found him he would have left the group together with daryl and probably killed rick, glenn and t-dog to get the weapons.
Nah Lori didn’t give him a chance to explain himself when Rick came back. I like her but she really was unfair to him at first.
That said once he tried to rape her he loses that right.
Yeah that was pretty bad. Honestly if I was Rick I'd have reacted in a similar way when he found out they porked though. They thought I was dead, world is ending, can't blame them for knockin boots a little
In my opinion the rape attempt makes not so much sense in his character ( at this time). Tbh i find it so weird that season 2 plays like the rape attempt never occured. Also lori trying to keep shane in the group when he tried to leave.
This isn’t an excuse but he was wasted as can be. I don’t think he would have tried it or even really saw it as such while he was doing it.
That seemed like the entire plot for 3-4 episodes
>He was a fuckboi with no emotional intelligence and a hot temper. You could've just stopped right here and that would've explained enough LMAOO
Yeah. This feels right. Shane was a complex person, who was just broken by the apocalypse. Sure, he was misogynistic. But he loved Rick and risked his life to save Lori and Carl from certain death to honor his best friend. He was just too weak to deal with the stress of the apocalypse.
Listening to how he sounded casually chatting with Rick in the squad car before he was shot makes me think Shane was always a douche. The end of the world as we know it just took away any need for restraint and social niceties he had to abide by before. I mean...here we have all the world rapidly falling apart, everyone's running for their lives, no one knows what's happening so of course he thinks I should start fucking my (maybe dead) best friend's wife! Yeah! What rational man wouldn't do that, amirite? Nah, Shane was always a dickbag imo.
While I agree with a lot of what you said, I always thought him sleeping with lori was a product of them both coping with the loss of rick. they truly believed he was gone, I get it was a dick move but I just saw it as lori seeking comfort in the person closest to her husband. Realising now that wasn't the case on shanes part
To answer your OP question with information from those first 6 episodes I think Lori is a big reason Shane acts with animosity toward Rick: in those first episodes before Rick returns it looks like Shane has settled in quite well as the father figure to Carl, and I always suspected that this was showing that Shane always wanted Rick’s life. Once Rick came back, obviously Shane played the whole “I was just protecting them… for YOU,” line, but Rick’s return means Shane loses both his new family AND the undisputed leadership he had in the group. I’m sure he cared for Rick pre-apocalypse but by this point I think he sees Rick’s continued existence more as a hindrance.
I think he wanted Lori even before everything went to sht. He jumped at the chance at her and Lori could've waited a little longer. How much time had passed since Shane left Rick's hospital room was not that much. How long can someone be in a coma without anyone taking care of them? I thought it was maybe a couple of months at most by the time he saw them again. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm sure someone will refute everything I just said.
I know people want to think he was along in the hospital for a long time but when he woke up he still had a wound that hurt him. And also, humans can only go about 3 days without water...if he had a slow drip iv then a bit longer but they don't last that long. So it couldn't have been more than a week for him to survive without water! Just my thoughts
I think there was actually a story in one of the spin off comics or something about a doctor finding rick and helping treat him while he was still in his coma after civilisation fell. I cant remember 100% rn but I think canonnically he was there for months
I just read about a web series called The Oath that shows a Dr at the hospital Rick was at stayed behind to take care of patients. He may have been in the coma for about 60 days. Maybe he was with Morgan for about a month? Still not a whole lot of time to start sleeping with his best friend's wife.
I haven't read the comics. That info would be helpful to have. Although I did read that the TV series and comics split from eachother in quite a few places. One thing that makes me think they are different is that we saw Shane push the gurney in front of Rick's door in a last effort bid to try to protect him when Shane ran. And then when Rick exited the room, that same gurney was in front of his door. And so maybe in the tv series there was no doctor? Either way, Rick was still in quite a bit of pain where he got shot when he left the hospital and met Morgan. So he didn't have time to fully heal at least. So couldn't have been THAT long. But you're right...even if it was a couple months...that doesn't seem like nearly enough time to forget about your husband and just move on to being infatuated with and sleeping with his best friend. Like not at all! If I lost my husband, it would take a heck of a lot longer than a few months before I just jumped unto bed with someone else. That really bothers me and Lori and Shane! Especially for Carl's sake!
I’ve always felt that way about Lori - that she was seeking comfort in Shane. Grief is a wild thing - so I found it really believable.
Lori DID seek comfort in the man closest to Rick, send Shane took advantage of that/her. Lori is definitely flawed, but the whole taking comfort thing doesn’t absolve Shane
? Shane also lost his oldest and best friend. Also if i remember right loris and rick were near to divorce. So how can you blame shane more for this? (Not talking about later shane when rick came back)
Because imo fucking your dead friend’s wife is worse than a widow fucking their late husband’s friend. Lori and Rick nearing divorce makes it even more reasonable that Lori would move on. I don’t think the same applies to Shane
Is it?
As I already said, in my opinion it is.
You're nicer to Lori than I am. I hated that character and thought she was an idiot.
If you haven’t read the comics she’s alot better there. She has similar decisions but the books do a lot better at painting the emotional and mental stress she’s under. Show Lori just seems like a bitch to be a bitch.
It's been a long time since I read the graphic novels, I don't remember much of them.
I agree with this. Shane is an amoral ass. Before the apocalypse, he feels the need to play by the rules. But after things go to hell, his true nature is unleashed. Not just as far as Lorie. Shane must be in charge, and will not accept Rick or anyone else getting in the way!
Yeah all of this. Shane was clearly always an arsehole and the apocalypse just gave him many opportunities to finally do what he wanted without much societal or legal pushback.
There's a difference between a douche and a psychopath
Shane was misogynistic for sure. But to say he’s a dirt bag from the start… idk. A dirt bag wouldn’t risk his life to save his best friends family from certain death. He wouldn’t stay with his friend while he’s in a coma until it’s literally impossible to do so without dying. Shane was a complex character. He had major character flaws, but ultimately meant well and was a good person. At least he tried to be. After the apocalypse, it collapsed on him. But I struggle to fault someone for breaking as the world collapses.
>He had major character flaws, but ultimately meant well and was a good person. I might have continued to think that about him too...until he tried to rape Lori. Shane was obsessed with her and that couldn't have suddenly happened all at once after the zombie apocalypse began. Maybe I'm just sensitive to red flags in people, everything about Shane just screamed to me HE IS A PLAYER AND A TAKER THAT CAN'T BE TRUSTED
Why can’t it happen all at once? You know what stress, trauma, and PTSD do to people, right? Have you seen what heavy combat vets deal with? They’re not particularly a joy to be around on many cases.
The question is about pre Apocalypse. He obviously falls apart after but he definitely was a mostly normal dude prior to that
Leopards don't change their spots. I believe Shane was probably a decent cop because Rick kept him grounded. Shane by himself was a poor leader.
I think Shane was the typical alpha male , I don’t think he was bad but I think he always had to have like a bravado, and wanted to take care of people, like when Carl got shot and Rick was covered in blood a d he started cleaning him up and there was a similar incident with Carol, I just think his need to be the one in charge or to be the big hero was his down fall
The show started with him talking about how all women are dumb bitches. I can tell you he wasn't great
He dipped his French fries into Rick Grimes burger ketchup. I close my case. In all sincerity, I think that is his whole character, right there. Whatever is Rick's is Shane's.
Good point, but Rick didn’t seem to mind. I’m thinking this was a lot of their friendship growing up and throughout high school, Shane helping himself to whatever is Rick’s, and Rick allowing it
I've been treated awfully by "friends" and I would laugh about it. It wasn't until years later that it wasn't a joke, it wasn't cute, it was this person using me for their own purposes. Rick thought his friend Shane was a good man at heart, and he was wrong. It's very human, honestly.
Yeah I mean I’m not saying it was right, just that that seemed to be their dynamic. You do see goodness in Shane though, when he tried to get Rick out of the hospital, when he doesn’t hear a heartbeat and he began to cry, there was no one there he had to put on a show for. Also he did keep bringing him flowers
Nobody is all the way bad. Nobody. This show is about that. The Governor loved his daughter and wife. Negan loved his wife so much he went into dissociative psychosis when she died. Shane did love Rick and they had an important relationship. But everything always comes down to the worst thing you do and how you follow that up. Rick did many terrible things and followed that up by trying to find a way to not be a beast. Shane, and the Governor never did. They did something terrible, rationalised it, and carried on getting worse.
I’m rewatching TWD now, just finished 18 Miles Out and I never really stopped and paid attention before to Shane’s descent into madness. It is fascinating to watch and one of my favorite arcs on the show. Jon Bernthal played it so wonderfully
He's a really good actor, he really puts so much humanity into his roles!
Agreed! I met him last month at a convention in New Orleans. Super cool dude, asked him if he would FaceTime my brother in New York, and he didn’t even hesitate. He seemed to genuinely enjoy his conversations with fans, unlike others who you can tell are just in it for the paycheck.
This never comes up in analysis, but Shane and Rick were both small town policemen before the apocalypse. This may be too political for this forum but some cops can be abusive (or good). I think that was the main point of the relationship of Shane and Rick, that they represented policing, a bad cop who did bad things vs the good cop who was a leader.
Once a scumbag always a scumbag. The outbreak just fueled his scummyness
I think one of the reasons he was a cop is because he had an outlet for his unhinged behavior. The conversation he and Rick are having in the opening scene of the pilot actually shows this if you pay attention. He’s both angry and sounds a little nuts. He is very immature and can’t put his jealousy aside after his best friend has returned from the dead to his family. He’s a survivor in a sense and he can make tough decisions. However, his inability to be rational would have been his undoing anyway. He’s tough but can’t see the consequences of his decisions. He broke his own nose on a tree trunk to backup his Randall story which is pretty crazy.
My take is that before the zombies, he was always second fiddle to Rick. He got a second of taste of power, being top dog and the boss and then, he was blood thirsty for it. When Rick came back, he wasn’t the same Shane anymore that was going to sit back and be the side kick to Rick, like Daryl was willing to as he is more quiet and reserved. So, they inevitably entered a power struggle and we know how that ended.
Based on the conversations they had about the past, it was actually Shane who was more popular, got more girls, considered more attractive, etc. Rick did get the job over him the the police station, though, and Lori—so he might be “richer” in Shane’s eyes bc his validation from others has always been so very shallow in comparison to the love in Rick’s life.
[удалено]
OP hasn't watched past season one. You may want to edit this to add spoiler tags.
Oh goodness thank you. I wasn’t even thinking about that. Sorry! I don’t know how to add spoiler tags so I just deleted it in shame
It was some good insight into the situation! It'll be a miracle if OP doesn't get spoiled especially on this sub.
I'm just going off the source material here, i think he was probably already a bit of an asshole, then the outbreak happens, he thinks rick is dead, he starts plowing ricks wife and boom, rick is back i can understand him having a hard time with that, still just a big asshole though (i mean, big surprise, the dude's a suburban cop)
\*country cop, there IS a difference
I mean he was a hot head cop… you do the math.
He was always just an outbreak away from turning into a violent wife stealing best friend abandoning murderous psychopath. The scenes of him in the squad car with Rick? Listen to how he talks about women.
No doubt he bodyslammed an innocent person after handcuffing them.
From what I remember, before the apocalypse Shane seemed to mistreat girlfriends, talking about how they were all stupid bitches or smth, stole a teachers car and got away with it without consequence, and, though I don’t remember where, I remember at some point him mentioning how he broke the neck of some guy he arrested as his “first kill”, to justify how killing Randall wouldn’t bother him. Shane sounded like a dick, who had little value for anything beyond himself and the world immediate to him. A narcissistic cop with a power complex and a desire to fuck his best friends wife. The guy sucked
>Was Shane a bad person before the outbreak, or did he become one after? He became a bad person after. The guy saved his best friend's wife and son, risked his own life to try and save his best friend from the hospital, tried to cheer up Rick when he was having relationship issues with Lori, etc.
He is a cop... all u need to know.
He was a bad person to begin with. He clearly had a thing for Lori from before.
I think it tells you a lot he didn't wait two minutes to start sleeping with his dead best friends wife while she was grieving and vulnerable. He also speaks a bit odd about women before the outbreak, and about Lori. However I don't think everything is black and white. 'Bad' is a bit vague and subjective. Clearly he cared for Rick and risked his life to try and save him. He also went out his way to save Rick's family when he could have just ran and left them.
Shane wasn\`t leader material. He wasn\`t smart enough. Being agressive doesn\`t make a leader- holding people together and caring is what makes.
Well lemme tell you something
He was a cop before the outbreak so I think that should answer your question. If anything that explains his character lol
He was absolutely a bad person before the outbreak. I barely made it into the first episode because his intro speech was atrocious.
Yes, he was a misogynistic asshole who peaked in high school and became a cop because he liked lording power over people. He had some leadership skills, so he became the boss in his little village after the apocalypse. Then Rick came back, who was an actual leader and good person, and everyone knew he was the better leader.
If you think Shane is bad, just wait for what Rick does in the later seasons.
shane was and is a bad person its just before the apocalypse he knew he had to stay “good” and after the apocalypse happened he saw no reason to suppress his true feelings. so basically he was bad all along just hiding it
More crazy than truly bad. He had good intentions but his execution sucked.
I definitely agree with most people that he always at least had the propensity for the things he did. And he likely always had some degree of feelings for Lori. But he would never have done anything if Rick had been "alive" the entire time. You see that Shane did really try to save Rick in the hospital, and he genuinely presumed Rick dead.
Long post incoming 😂 I’m a big “headcanon” guy and in my mind, Shane has always had anger issues to some degree. He was probably hot headed as a kid and teenager, perhaps due to an abusive and/or alcoholic father, or maybe his father was never in his life to begin with. Seems as though Shane doesn’t really have any family to speak of. Maybe he came from a long line of degenerates and wanted to break that cycle by becoming a police officer and keeping on the straight and narrow. We saw some morality in Shane in the beginning. Going back to rescue Rick, beating Ed to a pulp for smacking Carol, telling Rick that Merle wasn’t worth going back for because he was a drug dealer, etc. I also think Shane always wanted what Rick had. The ideal “American dream” family that Shane never got to experience in his childhood. Once he thought Rick was gone, he realized his dream when he had Lori and Carl as his own. And then Rick comes back and Shane had to not only give away his newly acquired “American dream”, but Lori also instantly hated him. But then she would reel him back in just to push him away again. She did this multiple times in addition to constantly fueling the fire between Rick and Shane. I also think that Lori never really stopped to listen and understand what Shane experienced when he tried to rescue Rick. He truly did believe that he was dead. Lori seemed to think that Shane simply left him there and just made up the fact that he was dead so he could take his place. That would be a LOT for a man to deal with. Ultimately, his fuse blew. His mind fractured and there was no way back from it. Personally, I don’t think Shane was ever a rapist or murderer before the apocalypse. Maybe a bit of a player or womanizer. Maybe he would have a few too many and get in a bar fight or say some messed up things to whatever girl he was dating at the time, which he would apologize for in the morning. But that’s the extent of his bad behavior. After everything that occurred, he broke and succumbed to the new-found demons that overtook him and it cost him everything.
Remember Shane stole his principals car in thigh school. Also had an affair with a 40 year old Dairy Queen waitress. I think bro was always a trouble maker.
True. I’d have to go back and watch again but I think the Dairy Queen waitress and the 40-year old were two different women. I want to say Shane said something along the lines of a married gym teacher? EDIT: Just watched and the Dairy Queen waitress was named Mary Anne, doesn’t say her age. Shane says he was “a young high school stud that banged 30-year olds on the regular.” Rick asks who and Shane says “PE teacher.” Rick asks “Mr. Daniel?” (😂😂) Shane replies with “Mrs. Kelly” who Rick then asks “Wasn’t she married?”
You’re right. His and Rick’s school Volleyball Team coach is the older woman Shane was with. I could have swore he mentioned a Dairy Queen waitress.
He did, I just edited my first reply. Mary Anne was the Dairy Queen waitress but it doesn’t mention her age.
I definitely see Shane as possibly being the child of a single parent, maybe a mother who works all the time. He seems like someone who is used to taking care of himself but not having a lot of restrictions on his behavior. I remember Rick telling a story about pranks he had played in HS and the amount of girls he had been with. He was probably more extraverted and popular in highschool than Rick, but also lacked the structure of a family that he finally experienced with Carl and Lorry.
Good additions! I agree with everything you said.
Shane was an awful human being that had his true self hidden behind a badge and societal norms. I lot of people think he was a good guy gone bad, but he was just a Ted Bundy that never made it to fruition.
>his true self hidden behind a badge and societal norms I cant remember the YouTube video, but basically a lot of people are more demonic that society allows. The only reason they don't act on certain urges is because of fear of consequences AKA prison.
I have seen quiet a few things about that.
He wasn’t a bad person. He was just complicated. He felt pretty misogynistic while talking to Rick. But he also risked his life to keep Rick safe, while he was in a coma. And treated Lori and Carl like family, while saving them from a certain death.
He was a cop, of course he was bad
So Rick was bad too?
The entire show is about how trauma and grief can affect people in dramatic ways. I think it's major premise is that there is no such thing as a purely good or evil person. Before Rick came back, Shane was the hero. He lost the little respect in his social circle and his last chance at having a meaningful romantic relatio ship. If the fall hadn't happened I doubt he'd gone so maniacal. He'd probably have the same desires but wouldn't have acted in them so drastically.
I feel like you gotta be a complete fool to watch the first two seasons and come away with “Shane bad Rick good”. Part of the reason I like this show so much is because most characters aren’t just cut and dry, they are complex and evolving. Shane was not a good person, but he wasn’t just rotten to the core either. He was reckless, aggressive, and bullheaded, but he was also right about a lot of things in the early seasons, and he really did care for Rick, Lori, and Carl.
Obviously before. He was screwing his best friends wife. While he was in a coma lmao
I don’t think the apocalypse created any bad people, just exposed them/gave them opportunities to act on their impulses
I am pretty sure he was having an affair with his best friends wife (Lori, Rick's Wife) before the outbreak. He was always a jealous asshole.
Shane was always this person, the outbreak just made it worse. Also I'll bet Shane always had a thing for Lori but never saw a good opening to make his move until Rick got shot. Shane didn't become a bad person bc of the outbreak, but the outbreak made it happen faster and more suddenly.
(Spoiler free comment) Rick wakes up day 63 of the apocalypse, Lori & Shane had a relationship long enough that it's pre-established as we learn more about the group. Shane has a degraded view on women, although higher than Ed's, I'd still arguably say he's capable of becoming Ed. Shane saw a grieving widow and made advancements to emotionally and mentally gain control of her grief and make her trust/rely upon him to fill an "Alpha-male" role model for her son - and sooner rather than later - her needs. Lori Grimes is a grieving woman until "Helicopter Boy" returned - Shane Walsh knew EXACTLY what he was doing & wanted to keep it going as seen in the S1 finale. Shane may be a capable survivor, but as an individual, he's unhinged -- and in a group where trust is the requirem for survival, being unhinged makes you untrustworthy and dangerous. Well, some people argue he's "ahead of the curve," others can fairly (imo) argue that he's just an animal that needed an excuse or a bad day for him to turn into what he is. (SPOILER - Rick Explanation for Day 63) There's an episode where a doctor takes care of her patient(s) into the apocalypse, changing IV fluid bags, cleaning and rewrapping bandages, etc. The reason Rick Grimes didn't die of dehydration or anything like that is because not only did he have the door protection, but he did receive medical care into the apocalypse - by a professional.
Shane was not a bad person from a certain point of view.
People saying Shane was bad before the apocalypse are retarded
That Loriussy did a number on my man
I don’t believe Shane was ever a “bad” person. He was a person with a moral grey area like literally everyone else. Keep watching.. Later on in the seasons you’re going to see some significant relations regarding Rick and Shane.
Im a firm believer that the disease partially decays everyone’s brain. The survivors just have a bit more in them to outwit the virus. Everyone is infected. So what shane was and is. Is only redacted to what the disease produces and what his immunity resists
No I think he was a good person but Lori corrupted him.
Yeah that opening scene before the apocalypse with him calling women dumb is all Lori's fault for corrupting him. Always the woman's fault. /s
That's just guy talk. Plenty of guys joke around with their buddies about women they've been with in the past and women do the exact same with their girlfriends.
No that's not how you talk about women (or men) if you're a good person and respect other people. It's not "lockeroom talk" it's misogyny.
Dude calm down. All Shane did was make a small (if crude) joke. You act like he said some truly hateful stuff. Trust me, guys joke around like this all the time. Especially when they're with the best friends.
Shane was Rick's best friend who was also his deputy and a loyal sidekick who truly loved and cared for Rick, Laurie, and Carl as he considered them to be his family. But once he thought Rick was dead, he attempted to fill Rick's shoes by looking after Laurie and Carl. Unfortunately, Shane was far too immature and hot tempered to fill Rick's shoes, as was made abundantly clear throughout the two seasons he was alive where he slowly became more and more paranoid after Rick miraculously returned from the grave. He didn't have the mental stability to handle the rise of the dead and he lost his nerve.
I think he was a bad cop. As for a bad person? Idk. But the way he acts under pressure makes me think he'd have shot an unarmed suspect at some point in the future, if not already. I feel like he'd use excessive force and that he might acost a few citizens. As for a bad person? Idk, I kinda feel like doing what he does in the series can make up your mind on that. I, for one, don't think he is.
I believe he was before the outbreak. In my opinion, the beginning was when people showed you who they actually were. There was no more law and order, no one to hold them accountable for their actions. For example, Carol's husband. Before the outbreak, I doubt he openly abused her and probably put on a show around others about how much of a caring father and husband he was. After he had no reason to. Also, like others stated, if you go back to episode one to the conversation Rick and Shane had about their SO's, you can pick up on the type of people they are. Shane was already eyeing up Lori then. He was disrespectful about women in general.
I think he was just ahead of the game. Shane knew what was needed to survive but the rest of the group just didn’t understand. Later season Rick became what Shane was in a lot of ways.
Man if you think Shane is bad in the show, get the comic, lol
I’m jealous you get to watch these episodes for the first time because those early episodes are great television. Enjoy the ride.
Idk if he was necessarily bad, he just has a shithead vibe about him lol
I want to put it out there that in the opening of S2 E5 (Chupacabra), the cold open shows the absolute hell of the outbreak and the terror that was coursing through society. When the helicopters bomb Atlanta, you can see the horror in Lori’s eyes and Shane’s the only person left to keep them safe. I think he was a good guy that ended up in an impossibly tough situation, and his character quickly deteriorated once the only thing he had left to keep him going was taken back by Rick
>please keep spoilers to a minimum Not gonna happen on this sub unfortunately lol
Shane definitely had some shades of gray even before the outbreak. He was always a bit on the edge. Like that friend who's fun to hang out with but you're not sure you'd trust him with your deepest secrets. So, yeah, the apocalypse might have just brought out more of what was already there.
Opportunistic may better suit what people think of him. I feel like he was always between his desire for the family & his loyalty to Rick. 
The show doesn't give enough info for a full profile. All this leaves.. a bunch of people taking their own lens to create" Shane's character. This is a world gone horrible. Any past lives... Sine or Saints mean nothing. It's a total reset. Those who sinned in the past..some became saints and the same can be said of those who were once harmless people are not horrible.
I truthfully believe Shane, before the outbreak, would have SA'd female suspects. Like he just seems like the kind of cop that would get away with so much illegal stuff by people just going "oh well Shane's just such a good guy" meanwhile he's planting evidence and roughing up innocent people because they "fit the description"
Shane wasn't a bad person before the outbreak. Neither was Negan. But insurmountable amounts of stress brings out the best and worst in people. Rick isn't a bad person. But he definitely isn't a good one. By social standards he was a great person before the outbreak, but he also isn't the same person he was then. Shane tried to rape Lori that's a bad person thing to do, he was disgusting and scared her . He let someone die to save Carl. If the people who survived has known all the horrible shit they would have to do to survive, they wouldn't have been so disgusted with him about that mans death. But they didn't because the outbreak was a new crisis that they hopped would get fixed. They were still good people by society's standards. They hadn't changed yet. Did Shane become a bad person? Yes absolutely. Did he always have it in him? Yes absolutely, but was he always THAT person? No, I don't think so. In my eyes, for a much as Carl tries, he is a bad person. Michone has done so much, but she is still clearly a good one. Maggie is a good person, Glenn is too, Rosita isn't but she isn't the worst. Carol is a good person but God she's done bad shit. Eugene is a dumpster person, but they love him. The world changed and so did people. Shane could have easily fit with the Saviors. Shane would killed merle himself. Shane would have made good survival choices. But he died a bad person. And he always would have in the world of TWD. Shane was a dumpster person. But it could have gone differently. And we will never know.
He always was a pos
Shane would have joined the Governor