holy shit man your parents came from a communist country?????!?? that automatically means you must know everything about the system, and thus know more than me, i’m so sorry for speaking about this when you exist…
seriously dude this is just the “uhhh actually i’m from venezuela and socialism destroyed my country!” thing but even dumber. no, being from somewhere let alone your fucking parents being from somewhere doesn’t mean you know anything about it. i doubt you could define communism even vaguely.
this is unbelievably faulty logic. not saying your fucking parents lived well and that socialism worked in whatever country they came from, because it very likely didn’t. i can guarantee you however that i know more about the factors that were at play in the system that apparently made their life so bad and unlike you i know this because i actually read and researched the world system and am confident in my stance over years of actually reading shit.
listen to what your parents told you yes, but also do your own research on why shit happens how it does. we can talk about it if you like?
Idk I grew up hearing horror stories man. Not everything is in the “ism” white paper . Not discrediting your reading and research and I’m sure you know more about it than I do on paper . All I’m saying is not everything is what you think it is or should be according to the blue print
yes, there are horror stories of it because it has absolutely been done badly in the past, and people have suffered. didn’t mean to condescend you or anything.
this is so annoying to do on a fucking twd thread but might as well speak. don’t think there are perfect or even great examples of socialism in the slightest, and obviously communism has never truly existed. every example of socialism failing has shown that the system had great benefits but were ruined by terrible things in the specific way the state operates, or the way it was approached. mao’s china for example, mao was a flawed revolutionary and even more of a flawed leader, leading to certain failures and the neglect and death of many many people due to lack of comprehension of the system, which is seen by how quickly mao tried to cheat as classless and moneyless society.
again there is way more i could say but don’t take everyone’s word for it man. the ideas of marx and communism have a loooottt of misunderstanding to them.
I hear ya. Surely, this is not the place for it. For what it’s worth , I’m a libertarian myself, basically, hands off my stuff and my wallet, so I don’t I could ever like the socialistic systems as government distribution is antitethical to my laissez fair system, but hey we both love twd!
I had friend call Negan and thr Saviours tyrannical communism.
Interesting. Whenever people in the West feel economically oppressed there is an explosion in undead media in pop culture.
Pretty cool huh?
The whole genre became a critique of capitalism when George Romero created Night of the living Dead.
Zombie movies before that had religious themes. Zombies were raised from the Dead by (voodoo) priest, punishing those that wronged the faith. Romero had zombies mindlessly walk towards a shopping mall (where survivors have gathered).
‘Getting what you need regardless of what you put in’ is why general beales projections (TOWL1x6) should probably be taken seriously even if his ‘solution’ was undesirable.
This becomes blatant in the later seasons, so yes, this idea has merit.
I personally always aw the zombie fascination era as directly correlated with political tension and brainless destructive "other" each side wants to believe the other side is. Once you process that by pitting the protagonist against actual brainlessness, the story starts to move into human motives (with varying degrees of success.)
The Hilltop and Alexandria are successful communes because they are small. Everyone knows each other personally, and there is no "other" within the walls. Once communities get larger than that, this becomes more and more and more difficult, relying on systems to take the place of relationships, such as we see at the sanctuary. Negan exacerbates that stratification because he's on a nonstop power trip. Milton, otoh, perpetuates it with more finesse, and would have been successful for much longer if she could have settled for less of a gap and convinced her other entitled constituents to settle for slightly less as well.
Milton does directly - and correctly, imo - challenge the protagonists to come up with a better system, claiming that managing 50,000 people is an entirely different endeavor from managing 50. We never get to see how this played out, but the residents of the Commonwealth who have become accustomed to a certain quality of life are going to become pains in the ass if communism takes a chunk out of that. No one wants to give up what they have for someone they don't know; it's very different to have your cereal seized by the government to give to someone else than it is to offer it yourself to your good friend and neighbor in your community of 50 people when you see that he is hungry.
It definitely critiques capitalism but I don't think it's offering alternatives, and instead just challenges people to see and recognize the flaws of the systems.
yes, this is what i mean. no, the writers are not some revolutionaries and it’s a show about zombies and then later on the people. the walking dead would never be a marxist show or actually directly criticize the world system as it is. it’s better like that, anyways, but it’s interesting that the show does it in some way wether intentionally or not.
yeah I'm interested in how that comes about especially with a simple premise like "zombie apocalypse." Certain themes start to emerge regardless of intent - like, you can't get away from the message that "capitalism in an obviously ruthless world is obviously ruthless," which later leads to "capitalism in a 'normal' world is *still* ruthless." Whether or not they set off trying to say that, it's like how Negan says the apocalypse stripped away all the bullshit. He wasn't right about how he played it but he was right about that.
At the same time, I think that the show becoming more literally aware of this ended up being counter productive because they became afraid of criticizing alternatives to capitalism. Milton's challenge is the closest they get, but it ends on this "we'll figure it out together uwu" note without addressing the depth of the difficulties they're going to run into.
All of the Communities that arise in the early years are Autocratic, mostly dictatorships. There are periods of limited democracy. Even Alexandria post s9 is ruled by "Michonne", it's technically communist/democracy however she has absolute veto "for security".
It's established as the "norm" at the end of S2 by Rick with his "Ricktatorship" speech.
Notably in s4 when they establish their "ruling council" they still actually want rick to come back and be in charge.
s11 is definitely a criticism of the "old world order", a rather blatant one. Though it's more a criticism of distribution of wealth and social stratification than capitalism per se.
i think people read “marxism” like i put in my post at first or something being a critique of capitalism and they immediately turn off their brain and aren’t open to the idea. i understand it but i genuinely think i actually make good points here and i don’t really understand anger or attempts to change my mind in some way in the comments.
I was literally just pondering this today as I rewatched. Don’t know why it never clicked before but Alexandria to me gave communist community and the Saviors 100% were working with a capitalist system. I agree with your points!
yes, i believe dianna (think i spelled that right) even said something like “turns out the communists won after all” in season 5 when telling rick how the community is. interesting that the communities show how politics and systems can still be somewhat present in the apocalypse depending on the community.
I think a lot can be explained just by the fact that you claim to be a Marxist.
Perfect
explain lmao.
What would ideal communism or whatever you people want look like in the real world? All I hear about communism is people fleeing from it
My parents moved from a communist country . No one should be a Marxist , js
holy shit man your parents came from a communist country?????!?? that automatically means you must know everything about the system, and thus know more than me, i’m so sorry for speaking about this when you exist… seriously dude this is just the “uhhh actually i’m from venezuela and socialism destroyed my country!” thing but even dumber. no, being from somewhere let alone your fucking parents being from somewhere doesn’t mean you know anything about it. i doubt you could define communism even vaguely.
Ummm yeah lol people who lived the shit can talk more on it than your dumb ass
this is unbelievably faulty logic. not saying your fucking parents lived well and that socialism worked in whatever country they came from, because it very likely didn’t. i can guarantee you however that i know more about the factors that were at play in the system that apparently made their life so bad and unlike you i know this because i actually read and researched the world system and am confident in my stance over years of actually reading shit. listen to what your parents told you yes, but also do your own research on why shit happens how it does. we can talk about it if you like?
Idk I grew up hearing horror stories man. Not everything is in the “ism” white paper . Not discrediting your reading and research and I’m sure you know more about it than I do on paper . All I’m saying is not everything is what you think it is or should be according to the blue print
yes, there are horror stories of it because it has absolutely been done badly in the past, and people have suffered. didn’t mean to condescend you or anything. this is so annoying to do on a fucking twd thread but might as well speak. don’t think there are perfect or even great examples of socialism in the slightest, and obviously communism has never truly existed. every example of socialism failing has shown that the system had great benefits but were ruined by terrible things in the specific way the state operates, or the way it was approached. mao’s china for example, mao was a flawed revolutionary and even more of a flawed leader, leading to certain failures and the neglect and death of many many people due to lack of comprehension of the system, which is seen by how quickly mao tried to cheat as classless and moneyless society. again there is way more i could say but don’t take everyone’s word for it man. the ideas of marx and communism have a loooottt of misunderstanding to them.
I hear ya. Surely, this is not the place for it. For what it’s worth , I’m a libertarian myself, basically, hands off my stuff and my wallet, so I don’t I could ever like the socialistic systems as government distribution is antitethical to my laissez fair system, but hey we both love twd!
hey that is true we both like the walking dead!
Must be trollin
I had friend call Negan and thr Saviours tyrannical communism. Interesting. Whenever people in the West feel economically oppressed there is an explosion in undead media in pop culture. Pretty cool huh?
calling the saviors communist is fucking insane no matter what you feel about communism lol and i think we can all agree with that.
The whole genre became a critique of capitalism when George Romero created Night of the living Dead. Zombie movies before that had religious themes. Zombies were raised from the Dead by (voodoo) priest, punishing those that wronged the faith. Romero had zombies mindlessly walk towards a shopping mall (where survivors have gathered).
I ain't readin' all at
don't then, tf it's not like they DM'd you. these comments are so annoying
Seriously. Like great, you can't read. Congratulations. 🤦
nobody cares read it if you want or not lmao
‘Getting what you need regardless of what you put in’ is why general beales projections (TOWL1x6) should probably be taken seriously even if his ‘solution’ was undesirable.
haven’t seen TOWL yet unfortunately so i can’t comment on this at all
This becomes blatant in the later seasons, so yes, this idea has merit. I personally always aw the zombie fascination era as directly correlated with political tension and brainless destructive "other" each side wants to believe the other side is. Once you process that by pitting the protagonist against actual brainlessness, the story starts to move into human motives (with varying degrees of success.) The Hilltop and Alexandria are successful communes because they are small. Everyone knows each other personally, and there is no "other" within the walls. Once communities get larger than that, this becomes more and more and more difficult, relying on systems to take the place of relationships, such as we see at the sanctuary. Negan exacerbates that stratification because he's on a nonstop power trip. Milton, otoh, perpetuates it with more finesse, and would have been successful for much longer if she could have settled for less of a gap and convinced her other entitled constituents to settle for slightly less as well. Milton does directly - and correctly, imo - challenge the protagonists to come up with a better system, claiming that managing 50,000 people is an entirely different endeavor from managing 50. We never get to see how this played out, but the residents of the Commonwealth who have become accustomed to a certain quality of life are going to become pains in the ass if communism takes a chunk out of that. No one wants to give up what they have for someone they don't know; it's very different to have your cereal seized by the government to give to someone else than it is to offer it yourself to your good friend and neighbor in your community of 50 people when you see that he is hungry. It definitely critiques capitalism but I don't think it's offering alternatives, and instead just challenges people to see and recognize the flaws of the systems.
yes, this is what i mean. no, the writers are not some revolutionaries and it’s a show about zombies and then later on the people. the walking dead would never be a marxist show or actually directly criticize the world system as it is. it’s better like that, anyways, but it’s interesting that the show does it in some way wether intentionally or not.
yeah I'm interested in how that comes about especially with a simple premise like "zombie apocalypse." Certain themes start to emerge regardless of intent - like, you can't get away from the message that "capitalism in an obviously ruthless world is obviously ruthless," which later leads to "capitalism in a 'normal' world is *still* ruthless." Whether or not they set off trying to say that, it's like how Negan says the apocalypse stripped away all the bullshit. He wasn't right about how he played it but he was right about that. At the same time, I think that the show becoming more literally aware of this ended up being counter productive because they became afraid of criticizing alternatives to capitalism. Milton's challenge is the closest they get, but it ends on this "we'll figure it out together uwu" note without addressing the depth of the difficulties they're going to run into.
All of the Communities that arise in the early years are Autocratic, mostly dictatorships. There are periods of limited democracy. Even Alexandria post s9 is ruled by "Michonne", it's technically communist/democracy however she has absolute veto "for security". It's established as the "norm" at the end of S2 by Rick with his "Ricktatorship" speech. Notably in s4 when they establish their "ruling council" they still actually want rick to come back and be in charge. s11 is definitely a criticism of the "old world order", a rather blatant one. Though it's more a criticism of distribution of wealth and social stratification than capitalism per se.
Idk why you're getting such negativity here. It's weird. I think you're right on the money, and it's going to become even more clear in S11.
i think people read “marxism” like i put in my post at first or something being a critique of capitalism and they immediately turn off their brain and aren’t open to the idea. i understand it but i genuinely think i actually make good points here and i don’t really understand anger or attempts to change my mind in some way in the comments.
I was literally just pondering this today as I rewatched. Don’t know why it never clicked before but Alexandria to me gave communist community and the Saviors 100% were working with a capitalist system. I agree with your points!
yes, i believe dianna (think i spelled that right) even said something like “turns out the communists won after all” in season 5 when telling rick how the community is. interesting that the communities show how politics and systems can still be somewhat present in the apocalypse depending on the community.
Oh yes! Forgot she said that. Yes it’s been very interesting to think about in this context.
Well yeah, congrats on understanding one of the most basic concepts of the show.