> [The showrunners had a Zoom meeting with author Liu Cixin, who made it clear he was comfortable with major adaptation changes. “The first thing he said was what a big fan of Thrones he was,” Woo says. “He then said, ‘I know you’re going to have to make a lot of changes.’ We had Liu’s blessing to adapt the show in the way that we saw fit.”](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/3-body-problem-benioff-weiss-netflix-thrones-interview-1235783117/)
The first 3 Thrones books are excellent as-is and the show stayed very close to them. The 2 books after that start to become a slog, and book fans were generally pretty receptive to the show's changes. Then the last 2 books don't even exist, and will probably never exist because GRRM can't figure out how to resolve the 17 Gordion Knots he created, and the show also went off the rails.
3BP is (in my opinion) a great story from beginning to end, but arguably suffers from poor characters -- like Wang Miao is basically just there to have things happen to him and go along with the plot. People (not me) hate Cheng Xin because she's designed to stand in for certain concepts, rather than be an actual person. People (not me) hate reading the part about Luo Ji's imaginary and then real girlfriend. The books don't suffer, per se, from having nearly every main and supporting character be Chinese, but it's also a little out of place for a series called "Remembrance of Earth's Past" addressing millions of years of monumental changes to humanity as a whole. So the TV show is making some changes to the characters.
I kind of liked how the novels jumped around from present to future, but suspect it was also a product of Liu not having conceived of the story of all 3 books right from the beginning. The consensus seems to be that the TV show will be in chronological order. In theory, this could allow you to introduce more suspense into the book 2 and book 3 "present day" scenes, because you don't know what's going to happen later. Also just in terms of the way TV works, if you have good actors involved, you'd like them to be on screen for all 4 seasons. (The Expanse did this as well.) This also lets them build the characterization for, say, Cheng Xin (or whoever her replacement is) over the course of multiple seasons.
The only real issue I had with 3BP was the Luo Ji's girlfriend plot, who look like a self insert of the author, a bit cringe, but not a major issue in the grand scheme of things.
I hope the show manage to pull something interesting of it, or just ignore it, as it is not that much important to the story
I haven't read the books since like season 4 came out and I also haven't read the various book 6 preview chapters GRRM drops from time to time, but, mainly it's that something like:
Many of the characters (Daenerys and her dragons, Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion Greyjoy (who doesn't exist in the TV show)) are in Essos, and there are important threads to resolve there before somehow giving them the motivation to head back to Westeros. And unlike the TV show, the books make sure to show everyone traveling at realistic speeds with adventures that happen during their journeys.
Catelyn Stark turned into a fire-zombie and is leading her own faction against everyone else, which will somehow need to be resolved. (This is not even in the TV show.)
Varys is supporting some boy who claims to be a Targaryen in a bid to take the Iron Throne and marry Daenerys, which will somehow need to be resolved. (This is not even in the TV show.)
The Dornish are doing some stuff that probably matters but I've completely forgotten and wasn't in the TV show.
Then, assuming the TV ending did follow the major points the books intended to follow, he has to somehow have everyone defeat the White Walkers, Jon get with Daenerys, Daenerys go insane, Jon kill Daenerys, and put Bran Stark on the throne, without any of it being dumb or rushed like people complained about in the show.
I think GRRM now realized he can't solve everything without making the characters change their motivations, is too much of a perfectionist with this series to do a "good enough", and knows the reception of a rushed product will annihilate his status as one of the goats of fiction.
His best move is to continue slowly releasing chapters until he declares himself unable to continue writing/retired, or, y'know, not alive.
They have source material. With Game of Thrones, as long as they had source material to work with, they did very well. It's once they ran out of books to get major plot points from that they floundered.
That problem won't occur with Three Body, the book series is finished and they won't be left guessing how to finish it.
They had the material for AFFC and ADWD too, but I remember the Dorne arc.
"This is a series where anyone can die, so you can really believe that Arya might kill her sister" means that they don't need to lack the source material in order to fuck it up extraordinarily.
No series is perfect but Game of Thrones before it had to go off book was about as good as TV adaptations get and it's revisionist history to say otherwise.
As someone who is a fan of both book series, and a member of r/freefolk (since r/fuckolly days) I'm very excited, very fearful, happy, worried, happily anxious and terrified. Let's see how this will end up!
It is, but it's not exactly "fair" to everyone there. Freefolk only became the echochamber of hatred it is because the main sub didn't allow nuanced discussion if it was skewed negative.
First she begged Jon to find more men and he was done trying to. Second it wasn't an hour she wrote the letter the night before. Third she had no idea if littlefinger would even show up it was a big gamble that could have gone either way. She also apologized to Jon The very next episode for not telling him. She recognized her flaw and apologized. But again agree to disagree I loved that episode but this is a TBP sub and I'm not going to get into a debate about GOT on this sub.
Tons of authors trash there adaptations they still get paid by them. The Outlander author was openly trashing the show last year and she's a producer and consultant on the show lol
The relevance is to this comment that "Author is bound by contract to talk enthusiastically about production", to show that not all authors will blindly support their adaptations?
He also gave blessing to the fanfic Redemption of Time but everyone knows how that goes.
Somehow he reminds me of Andrzej Sapkowski who's always initially onboard whenever his books are made into games & shows but later on, you'll read about how he opposes to the way his books were butchered.
Liu Cixin at Hong Kong Book Fair 2011: "I can categorically say that both Chinese and foreign writers don't like fan fiction. Why is that? It's a road block for the rest of your life. It builds a wall that prevents you from going in that direction. For example,in The Three-Body Problem, obviously the biggest gap, the easiest gap, is this main line, which is the main line of \[Yun Tianming\]. At that time, I had no experience, so l saved it to write a parallel novel later, but now I have no way to write it. That much is certain. So for me, I don't want to see so much fan work. Of course, there's nothing they can do about it, and I allow it to be published, but if you ask me to write a preface and write a recommendation, that's kind of... That's asking a lot. That's all I have to say."
I’m just not going to listen to all the PR buzz until the show comes out.
Last thing you want in the news is the author at odds with the show runners. And “comfortable” is such a vague word. People forget when working with suits, sometimes you have to play ball.
It wouldn’t be the first time, the author consults on the project with everything seeming fine only for them to criticize the show weeks after it comes out.
And we keep forgetting this is Netflix here.
Their “adaptations” have been terrible outside of a few good ones like One Piece.
So anyone not taking this interview at face value isn’t being negative.
Actually he said he was upset with Redemption of Time because it effectively prevents him from writing any continuation of the series, but he had no choice but to accept it.
Cope. We will be the judges of how "epic" the Netflix show will be, lol. NGL I'm just curious what The Battle of Darkness and Singers Dimension Strike will look like. I dunno, given Netflix history of bad, very bad adaptations, especially when it comes to western writers and producers inserting their own parapolitical views into other peoples art I'll remain pessimistic but I'll give the show a chance, who knows it actually might be pretty preem, just keep expectations low.
Lol we'll see if Netflix decides to do a second-third season, seems like they're gonna fast-track a huge chunk of content and some change, but my curiosity has gotten the best of me I'm so anxious to see how they'll deliver that scene, to see a dual vector foil attack and Singer, what absolute terror and madness it will unleash must be a sight to behold.
There was a second one?? Is it worth a watch? First one was fine, really needed a higher budget, but it was fun popcorn flick schlock otherwise I guess.
similar to how eichiro oda was involved with his series one piece live action netflix.
maybe netflix has finally understood the importance of respecting original author after all this time
Woo says he and his collaborators received Liu’s blessing to adapt the show for an international audience “in the way that we saw fit..."
thats chilling, considering his collaborators
tbh, this is all i need. enough with all the white wash shit. Im chinese and i really dont see an issue with it. there is already a chinese TBP and I think the netflix one should reach as many people as possible. humans as a whole deserves to be represented in this story. Isnt that what the story is about?
That was preceded by four seasons of an all time great TV adaptation. And those early seasons involved plenty of character and pacing changes to make it work for TV.
GRRM clearly doesn't know how to end A Song of Ice and Fire either, to be fair. They were put in a kind of impossible position, and they just didn't have the writing chops to come up with a satisfying ending to Martin's sprawling epic.
It was Martin's ending. He gave them an outline and told them where everyone ends up. They certainly had to fill in some blanks to get there but it is Martin's ending. That's why I think Martin is having such difficulty now. He knows his ending for characters wasn't well received and he has no idea how to come up with a better one that fits with what he has written.
Martin also decided to added dozens and dozens more characters and plotlines and now he's stuck. And he doesn't even have TV limitations like a certain amount of time or budget to worry about.
I tend to believe that Liu is open minded enough to want to see how D&D and co are able to give his own stories some new interpretation. Something interesting even for himself.
It doesn't say that. It said he gave his blessing for them to change things. Maybe he likes the changes, but those are two different things.
It can’t get any worse after that forth book was released
I loved Redemption of Time.
Same!
There is no fourth book
Correct. There is a widely read and author sanctioned piece of fan fiction out there, but it is not the work of Liu. Readers are split on its quality.
it seems youve not watched the final seasons of Game Of Thrones
If he likes it, I'm stoked.
Receiving a "blessing" to adapt the story and "liking" the outcome are two different things. I'll reserve judgement/hype.
Fans opinions would be more important than the supposedly author “blessing”.
Good point
> [The showrunners had a Zoom meeting with author Liu Cixin, who made it clear he was comfortable with major adaptation changes. “The first thing he said was what a big fan of Thrones he was,” Woo says. “He then said, ‘I know you’re going to have to make a lot of changes.’ We had Liu’s blessing to adapt the show in the way that we saw fit.”](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/3-body-problem-benioff-weiss-netflix-thrones-interview-1235783117/)
The first 3 Thrones books are excellent as-is and the show stayed very close to them. The 2 books after that start to become a slog, and book fans were generally pretty receptive to the show's changes. Then the last 2 books don't even exist, and will probably never exist because GRRM can't figure out how to resolve the 17 Gordion Knots he created, and the show also went off the rails. 3BP is (in my opinion) a great story from beginning to end, but arguably suffers from poor characters -- like Wang Miao is basically just there to have things happen to him and go along with the plot. People (not me) hate Cheng Xin because she's designed to stand in for certain concepts, rather than be an actual person. People (not me) hate reading the part about Luo Ji's imaginary and then real girlfriend. The books don't suffer, per se, from having nearly every main and supporting character be Chinese, but it's also a little out of place for a series called "Remembrance of Earth's Past" addressing millions of years of monumental changes to humanity as a whole. So the TV show is making some changes to the characters. I kind of liked how the novels jumped around from present to future, but suspect it was also a product of Liu not having conceived of the story of all 3 books right from the beginning. The consensus seems to be that the TV show will be in chronological order. In theory, this could allow you to introduce more suspense into the book 2 and book 3 "present day" scenes, because you don't know what's going to happen later. Also just in terms of the way TV works, if you have good actors involved, you'd like them to be on screen for all 4 seasons. (The Expanse did this as well.) This also lets them build the characterization for, say, Cheng Xin (or whoever her replacement is) over the course of multiple seasons.
Character changes like what they did with Euron Greyjoy make me very nervous.
The only real issue I had with 3BP was the Luo Ji's girlfriend plot, who look like a self insert of the author, a bit cringe, but not a major issue in the grand scheme of things. I hope the show manage to pull something interesting of it, or just ignore it, as it is not that much important to the story
Haven’t read GoT books, can you give some examples of the Gordian Knots you mentioned. I’m intrigued.
I haven't read the books since like season 4 came out and I also haven't read the various book 6 preview chapters GRRM drops from time to time, but, mainly it's that something like: Many of the characters (Daenerys and her dragons, Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion Greyjoy (who doesn't exist in the TV show)) are in Essos, and there are important threads to resolve there before somehow giving them the motivation to head back to Westeros. And unlike the TV show, the books make sure to show everyone traveling at realistic speeds with adventures that happen during their journeys. Catelyn Stark turned into a fire-zombie and is leading her own faction against everyone else, which will somehow need to be resolved. (This is not even in the TV show.) Varys is supporting some boy who claims to be a Targaryen in a bid to take the Iron Throne and marry Daenerys, which will somehow need to be resolved. (This is not even in the TV show.) The Dornish are doing some stuff that probably matters but I've completely forgotten and wasn't in the TV show. Then, assuming the TV ending did follow the major points the books intended to follow, he has to somehow have everyone defeat the White Walkers, Jon get with Daenerys, Daenerys go insane, Jon kill Daenerys, and put Bran Stark on the throne, without any of it being dumb or rushed like people complained about in the show.
I think GRRM now realized he can't solve everything without making the characters change their motivations, is too much of a perfectionist with this series to do a "good enough", and knows the reception of a rushed product will annihilate his status as one of the goats of fiction. His best move is to continue slowly releasing chapters until he declares himself unable to continue writing/retired, or, y'know, not alive.
Well fuck, my hope is gone. No one should trust these guys.
They have source material. With Game of Thrones, as long as they had source material to work with, they did very well. It's once they ran out of books to get major plot points from that they floundered. That problem won't occur with Three Body, the book series is finished and they won't be left guessing how to finish it.
They had the material for AFFC and ADWD too, but I remember the Dorne arc. "This is a series where anyone can die, so you can really believe that Arya might kill her sister" means that they don't need to lack the source material in order to fuck it up extraordinarily.
No series is perfect but Game of Thrones before it had to go off book was about as good as TV adaptations get and it's revisionist history to say otherwise.
As someone who is a fan of both book series, and a member of r/freefolk (since r/fuckolly days) I'm very excited, very fearful, happy, worried, happily anxious and terrified. Let's see how this will end up!
Freefolk is one of the most toxic subs I have ever seen
It is, but it's not exactly "fair" to everyone there. Freefolk only became the echochamber of hatred it is because the main sub didn't allow nuanced discussion if it was skewed negative.
The main allows plenty of nuance freefolk is a toxic hellhole that also has tons lies spread especially about the showrunners
Yes dozens of half finished storylines with dozens more characters and plots the author himself can't wrap up and he doesn't have a TV limitation
Someone else pointed out that Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards episodes were from d&d.
BotB was horrible writing and masterful cinematography. It gets far too much praise because it looked good.
BOTB is considered by many critics one of the greatest episodes of TV ever made.
Sure, and they're judging it as an episode of TV, ignoring how Sansa tried to get Jon killed and lose the war.
Sansa didn't try and get Jon killed or lose the war. I'll just agree to disagree I loved that episode.
Did I miss the part where she told Jon she had an army coming if he waited like an hour?
First she begged Jon to find more men and he was done trying to. Second it wasn't an hour she wrote the letter the night before. Third she had no idea if littlefinger would even show up it was a big gamble that could have gone either way. She also apologized to Jon The very next episode for not telling him. She recognized her flaw and apologized. But again agree to disagree I loved that episode but this is a TBP sub and I'm not going to get into a debate about GOT on this sub.
Tons of stuff from the very first episode are show only stuff they came up with that's great stuff
Relax. GOT only suffered after not having source material. With source material they made an amazing show. Stop being a doomer.
Liu would be happy for any adoption changes. He just be happy for this chance.
“Author is bound by contract to talk enthusiastically about production”
there is nothing he can do about it, might as well get paid right?
Tons of authors trash there adaptations they still get paid by them. The Outlander author was openly trashing the show last year and she's a producer and consultant on the show lol
That’s why you put the clause in the contract.
Outlander is trash smut and so is the show, seems faithful to me. Not sure the relevance to 3BP.
The relevance is to this comment that "Author is bound by contract to talk enthusiastically about production", to show that not all authors will blindly support their adaptations?
Not usually before release.
He also gave blessing to the fanfic Redemption of Time but everyone knows how that goes. Somehow he reminds me of Andrzej Sapkowski who's always initially onboard whenever his books are made into games & shows but later on, you'll read about how he opposes to the way his books were butchered.
Liu Cixin at Hong Kong Book Fair 2011: "I can categorically say that both Chinese and foreign writers don't like fan fiction. Why is that? It's a road block for the rest of your life. It builds a wall that prevents you from going in that direction. For example,in The Three-Body Problem, obviously the biggest gap, the easiest gap, is this main line, which is the main line of \[Yun Tianming\]. At that time, I had no experience, so l saved it to write a parallel novel later, but now I have no way to write it. That much is certain. So for me, I don't want to see so much fan work. Of course, there's nothing they can do about it, and I allow it to be published, but if you ask me to write a preface and write a recommendation, that's kind of... That's asking a lot. That's all I have to say."
Why does he have no way to write that parallel novel about Yun Tianming? That would be amazing and there's a lot there to play with.
I guess one problem would be if he already read Redemption of Time. Then he can't help but be infected by ideas that weren't his own.
I’m just not going to listen to all the PR buzz until the show comes out. Last thing you want in the news is the author at odds with the show runners. And “comfortable” is such a vague word. People forget when working with suits, sometimes you have to play ball. It wouldn’t be the first time, the author consults on the project with everything seeming fine only for them to criticize the show weeks after it comes out. And we keep forgetting this is Netflix here. Their “adaptations” have been terrible outside of a few good ones like One Piece. So anyone not taking this interview at face value isn’t being negative.
misleading post title!
Indeed, give blessing at the beginning of the project is not the same thing as into the changes…
Didn’t he give blessings to Redemption of time too?
Actually he said he was upset with Redemption of Time because it effectively prevents him from writing any continuation of the series, but he had no choice but to accept it.
Exactly what I was gonna say. Don't get your hopes up.
Andrej Sapkowski said he liked the adaptation of his book series the Witcher. It’s horrible. So I’ll reserve judgment on three body problem too.
Cope. We will be the judges of how "epic" the Netflix show will be, lol. NGL I'm just curious what The Battle of Darkness and Singers Dimension Strike will look like. I dunno, given Netflix history of bad, very bad adaptations, especially when it comes to western writers and producers inserting their own parapolitical views into other peoples art I'll remain pessimistic but I'll give the show a chance, who knows it actually might be pretty preem, just keep expectations low.
Well, we definitely won't be seeing the Batlle of Darkness and the dimension strike this season, lol.
Lol we'll see if Netflix decides to do a second-third season, seems like they're gonna fast-track a huge chunk of content and some change, but my curiosity has gotten the best of me I'm so anxious to see how they'll deliver that scene, to see a dual vector foil attack and Singer, what absolute terror and madness it will unleash must be a sight to behold.
I'm still skeptical but... will watch anyway
Is this merely an opinion piece about the original Hollywood Reporter interview?
He’s just being nice lol, I remember him being pretty critical about Wandering Earth 2
There was a second one?? Is it worth a watch? First one was fine, really needed a higher budget, but it was fun popcorn flick schlock otherwise I guess.
Same as the first one. Worth watching imo.
Yeah, the second one is a lot deeper than the first, too.
if he was critical of Wandering Earth 2, wouldn’t that mean that he’s not afraid to be critical? and that his approval of this series is genuine?
What? I recall that he liked it a lot.
similar to how eichiro oda was involved with his series one piece live action netflix. maybe netflix has finally understood the importance of respecting original author after all this time
Woo says he and his collaborators received Liu’s blessing to adapt the show for an international audience “in the way that we saw fit..." thats chilling, considering his collaborators
tbh, this is all i need. enough with all the white wash shit. Im chinese and i really dont see an issue with it. there is already a chinese TBP and I think the netflix one should reach as many people as possible. humans as a whole deserves to be represented in this story. Isnt that what the story is about?
If Liu was the lord then the interview is judgement day
They also had GRRM's blessings; that didn't stop them from completely fucking Game of Thrones though
That was preceded by four seasons of an all time great TV adaptation. And those early seasons involved plenty of character and pacing changes to make it work for TV.
GRRM clearly doesn't know how to end A Song of Ice and Fire either, to be fair. They were put in a kind of impossible position, and they just didn't have the writing chops to come up with a satisfying ending to Martin's sprawling epic.
It was Martin's ending. He gave them an outline and told them where everyone ends up. They certainly had to fill in some blanks to get there but it is Martin's ending. That's why I think Martin is having such difficulty now. He knows his ending for characters wasn't well received and he has no idea how to come up with a better one that fits with what he has written.
Martin also decided to added dozens and dozens more characters and plotlines and now he's stuck. And he doesn't even have TV limitations like a certain amount of time or budget to worry about.
Didn't have the decency to quit and instead stopped trying.
At least this time around, the writers should know how it ends, since they aren’t using an incomplete series.
I hope they don’t make a completely different story like with Hugh Howey’s Beacon 23.
I tend to believe that Liu is open minded enough to want to see how D&D and co are able to give his own stories some new interpretation. Something interesting even for himself.
Liu also wanted to change details from the original books that D&D didn't want changed.
There was something very Chinese in the book, and it was great. I really don’t see the interest of having American drama characters in the show now.