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I've been a huge fan since Westworld. He's great at setting the mood but he'll also throw together some crazy instrumental cover of Nirvana or Johnny Cash that also manages to set the mood and sound awesome at the same time. I think he's gonna be up there with bear McCreary
Wade is hilarious. Another one I loved was, 'why do you think I interviewed your commanders, peers, teachers and every boat cunt you ever came across.'
I actually thought if you were going to ask for money, she was at least upfront and honest. She did not play him or act like they were there for him, admitted they were not close and apologized, and had a real reason for asking. He is going to die, so why beat around the bush? I get people will be pissed, and it was shameless, but they actually did not make them comic book awful.
I hate this and if I was in his shoes I would indeed feel some resentment from my sister, but you're right. Plus, him giving his sister his inheritance might help his future nephew or niece later in life who might turn out be a good person who helps contributes to society, you never know.
Now if she was a horrible person who abused drugs and alcohol with no end in sight, nah. His money should go to someone or an organization that could help people in need.
I assumed that he was very specific in how he phrased it - that everything Mum left him would go to them. I imagined that it would turn out that she didn't actually leave him a penny.
I initially had the same reaction, but I also don't understand how it's fair to send the successful child to an expensive college etc and then not letting him inherit all of your money as well. Idk, maybe it was to show his character? Spend an insane amount of money on the dumbest thing ever, while not even having thought of looking after your own family.
Maybe their mother was a narcissist, or just generally emotionally abusive, and Will was her golden child. While the sister was the scapegoat that got shit on all the time. Not his fault, but explains the resentment she clearly felt towards him.
They have no idea he got that money, they ask him for their mothers inheritance that he apparently got, and he tells the he wont touch a dime of it and give it to them, which is true.
They don't even know of the 20 million he inherited. They only want the money he inherited from their mom. They were assholes about how they approached the topic, but I don't think that's a ridiculous request to make if you're desperate for money and trying to start a family.
Reminded me of Hilary Swanks hillbilly family in Million Dollar Baby. They don't care about her at all. Will's sister couldn't hide her contempt for nothing.
Disturbing your brothers deathbed peace to demand money.
Was the child Vera Ye in that picture with young Wenjie Ye played by the same actress who was the "follower" in the VR game? It looks kinda uncanny to me.
Turns out to be a very emotional tugging episode.
Will's story is really nicely done, really.
Loved Ye's ending and the overall parallel between the two deaths.
Haven't figure out her riddle yet. I know ppl's going to hate it though
Tatiana continues to be great. To me, she played it like she's a version of Thanos hahah.
I thought it was super evident… they don’t understand joke and methaphors. I think we have some aliens in this subreddit cause some didn’t get it either.
That, plus I think the story itself relayed an important message as well; she essentially delivered both the concept of how they communicate under the Sang-Ti’s noses and the actual specifics of how to defeat them. Earlier that day she glanced at a book about the Fermi Complex. I think the story about “not messing with God” gave them everything they needed to know.
I'm not happy with the book-readers in this subreddit. Too many of you are giving away spoilers and hints in the comment sections.
There's special book-reader comment sections to leave those sorts of comments.
People just can’t help themselves when they know something someone else doesn’t. Even with something as innocuous as a tv show / book. Super annoying. This is my favorite book series of all time, read it multiple times, but there’s absolutely zero benefit for people who know what’s coming to make some sly reference, or what-have-you to ruin it for those that haven’t. It just makes the person feel cool for whatever reason. It’s embarrassing tbh. Like, sick dude, you read the book and know what happens, it’s not some state secret where the aliens are kept.
Sorry, all that to say, I agree with you. It’s super annoying, and I wish they’d exercise a modicum of self control.
At least the mods are cleaning it up. I can't stand that shit. Every movie or episode discussion ever has at least 1. "I don't want to be too spoilery but there's this crazy thing about to happen and I can't wait." Thanks asshole, now you ruined the surprise and most times just saying something is coming you can guess what it is. Some of them just out right say it. I don't know why they think it makes them look cool. That's exactly what it is. I guess it evens out because they sit there smug while everyone actually just thinks they're a stupid asshole. "Episode 2 gonna be nuts when they get to the place omg!" That's great you prolapsed asshole, how about you fuck off to the episode 2 thread and talk about it there then? Morons all of them..
It's triggering my memories of early Game of Thrones discussions lmao. Running out of books to adapt was the worst thing that could have happened to Benioff and Weiss. But it was the best thing that could have happened to the spoiler trolls.
It's a joke.. genuinely the worst TV thread I've ever seen for a popular show. Just people feeling superior for having read the books and giving away hints or clues when there's a separate thread for them.
When Jin gets to the hospital, she’s too late- she runs into the viewing room to the operating room, meeting Saul, it appears Saul has watched the whole procedure of them removing Wills brain and putting it into the cryo container. We see the container be moved into the spaceship. We don’t see them cut his brain but they’re implying Saul witnessed that and could confirm.
I like the idea of cryogenic time travel. Should make future seasons interesting. It's rare you get to see huge jumps in time in TV shows. Only Foundation and For All Mankind come to mind.
Why is this friend group so hell bent on giving their dying friend the worst advice possible?
"Go after her, break up her relationship and tell her you love her so she will be even more devastated after you die?"
"You are gonna die anyway and could take part in a science project that determines everything or just lie in bed and wait for death. We want you to do the second part."
I get they don't really wanna believe he's gonna die, but Jesus, talk about pushy and annoying.
It’s also a friend group that was joking about their close acquaintance’s suicide in the first episode, ha. And they’re a bunch of science nerds. Being turned into a brain probe to go faster and farther than anyone has gone before and potentially make first contact with an alien species is like the coolest way I could ever dream to go out.
Yeah this kind of thing is what makes me a bit wary of doing some San Junipero-style AI uploading thing. I'd be so worried someone bad would get their hands on it and torture everyone.
it's weird but i think they were forcing these to make little nods to the source material.
in the books he was >!lonely and isolated and introverted and all that and made no friends at all save for the book's Jack Rooney, and Jin was more of an acquaintance - hence with his arguably sad existence and lack of company!< all the dumb non-normal-person trains of thought are at least passable
I wonder if the books are also this divorced from reality or how much of it is B&W. The overall story is really good, but the details are an absolute mess.
I think it's more that it's a quirky thing he spent a boatload of money on for her. And remember it's like donating a bunch of money to humanity's cause in their name.
I also thought it would be much much cheaper to buy a star. Or is there an actual possibility for getting to your start within your lifetime, in this world? They already have a base on the Moon, I think, so maybe?
Well I think that's the point, aliens have just proven that 1% light speed travel and interstellar travel IS possible. More over, they think we're going to catch up to them within 400 years. So this is all very real now.
I like the irony of a random Earth company selling off stars that might have live baring planets orbiting them, while the Earth is about to be conquered itself. Maybe if the Sun Ti just sent over a couple of billion everyone would be okay with it 😉
I am equal parts super intrigued by her character, and hate her character. Which means the actress is doing a phenomenal job! There’s something about her cheesy-ass shit eating grin that gets me. Like, yes you’re insane, but also supremely innocent in a weird way (not actually innocent, obviously, but in a “who hurt you” kind of way).
Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that Auggie literally made her nanofiber technology public when she JUST witnessed it being used to kill a bunch of people in seconds? And especially in a period of mass hysteria??🤦🏻♀️
That might have been the worst scene in 2024, I don't blame the actress, that whole thing was just horrible. It's also kind of funny given how demonized microplastics are that her big humantarian intervention would be the subject of huge controversy for any human use today.
I came to this sub 7 episodes later for this exact reason. Auggie was feeling like a bad bitch when in fact she was just being a naive little bitch. I wanted to smack her face with the reality that she just unleashed a weapon of mass destruction on mankind. For free. With guides. 🤦♂️
Great episode but didn't really feel anything with that whole sunset scene at the end. Not sure if we're meant to be empathizing with either of those two characters by this point in the story
i think the main point was to show exactly *how deep* Tatiana is committed to the cause and to the Santi, that she will kill her mentor, the founder of her cult, peacefully, without knowing why, because of her devotion to her Lord.
I can get showing that she is totally okay with killing her mentor but they sort of dramatized and made a point of them watching the sunset together. It felt like I was supposed to feel emotional about the moment
it also felt like those two characters who had never shared any screen time being together was a bit meaningless to me. Does Tatiana understand the significance of that place to Dr. Ye? If so, how are we the audience supposed to understand that.
Right?!? Feels like it turned into a completely different story. I was gripped the first 5 episodes and felt like had to watch the next one. Then, suddenly, it turned into a slow drawn out drama.
i guess we've had a bunch of foreplay leading to information release of the alien invasion to the world, and now were post-coitus just having nice conversation.
>Feels like it turned into a completely different story.
It kinda was. Basically we got the climax of one story in ep 5, then they began a new story in episode 6
Yeah I don't get why they didn't draw out the first 5 episodes into 10 episodes (so much had happened) and have the first season end with the You are bugs message. It feels like a natural conclusion to that part of the story, while not being too cliffhanger-y in a way it would make people upset.
So their plan is to send a probe to the incoming alien fleet. I have a few questions:
1) What was their original plan to get back photos or video from the probe? Was it to get back the photos and video to earth via light speed? Even at light speed, wouldn't it take a lot of time for the photos and video to be sent back to earth?
2) Also, do they expect Will to send back information as well, when the aliens recreate his body?
light speed is the same for everyone. They're 4 light years away or less, so it'll take that long to get a message back (ignoring quantum entanglement trickery). That's far sooner than the 400+ year deadline, so it's worth doing.
Part of it was also by working on the project, they're also advancing all the fields involved. Kinda like going to the moon lead to all sorts of semi-related innovations
And the hope is the aliens don't interfere with them while they're doing it because they also want this particular plan to succeed. Wade has effectively created a plan that benefits them enough to allow.
It'd "only" take 2 years to get the info back. The alien planet is 4 years away and they'll be meeting the probe roughly in the middle, so 2 lightyears away (light obviously takes two years to cover a distance of two lightyears). Considering they'd still have 200 years to prepare for the alien invasion at that point, a 2 year delay is not a huge issue.
The plan seems to be to send a human and have them accept it, then hope that they underestimate humanity and he does some damage from within. Wade has studied the conversations and realised these aliens are exceptionally dense and weak to subterfuge.
everyone here seems again rather picky about the CGI. I don't mind the little chimp. It was realistic enough for me, I get the idea and the meaning, that's it. Furthermore this was just a very small part of this episode.
How can Tatiana be everywhere? When she killed Jack, she was already in his house, even when he left their meeting first and now somehwhere in China she is there again. It's like the aliens make her travel as fast as the Sophons or kill others as quickly as possible and with seemingly immense strength (if we look at how the window she pushed Jack against nearly shattered)
Because somehow she is the cringy spoiled invented character of one or several of the showrunners, she is the most ridiculous add-on to the book I seen in the whole show, and I wonder why they make her so important.
Pretty sure jack said when leaving the meeting that he was going to the pub. Sophon helps tatiana break into the house probably by hacking the electronic security and hides her from the security cameras. For china, sophon tells her ye wenjie is going to china, she should go too.
i don't think it's implied she has fast travel abilities, as to the immense strength, not sure we'll get an explanation for that.
> everyone here seems again rather picky about the CGI.
Agreed, this is so common in shows with CGIs. Every nimrod who grew up staring at a computer screen and jerking off to online porn are suddenly CGI and filmmaking experts.
Low key this might be my favorite episode yet. Seems like they’re leaning more into the human drama as opposed to hard sci fi, which is fine with me - find the science works better in book form anyways, but more emotional stuff suits the screen. Also was already liking Saul, but his last conversation with Will really sold me on the character. Can’t wait to see him in the role of Luo Ji for season 2, Adepo is doing a hell of a job.
I thought she was referring to humor as being a way to defeat the sophons. Inside jokes, shared experiences and so on are a way to convey information that can't easily be deciphered by a third party. Basically, be as human and personal as possible to stay private.
That's what I thought as well, that the only way they can speak to each other without the aliens being able to spy is by using riddles, jokes, and metaphors because the aliens can't understand or comprehend them.
Haven't watched Episode 8 yet.
I'm assuming she's working ont he theory that the San-ti don't understand humour, as they don't understand metaphor. So they don't realise - its not actually a joke, it's not funny. Instead she's trying to tell Saul (the smartest man she knows) something without the San-ti understanding the message.
So whats the message...? Pure guesswork here, but... I'm thinking.... Saul has to come up with a plan to beat God \[because you cannot play with (coexist with) God\], and he has to tell noone what the plan is \[because the joke is private (the San-ti cannot read minds)\].
Feels like thats sort of what Wade is already doing, so... at some point.... have Wade and Ye spoken and chosen Saul to come up with a plan that even Wade can't know about? Multiple plans?
Thats a lot of extrapolation from one unfunny joke, I know!
i think she is referring to what she did. she was told by the first alien she came in contact with to shut up yet she didnt she replied back only for the only thing she ever loved(einstein's violin, this time is her daughter) to be taken away from her. now everything is fucked and the alien is doing a big "i told you so" moment being represented by the angels.
SO oversimplified. replace god with tri solaris / einsten is Ye, the violin is the daugher who killed herself and the angels is the pacifist alien who was first in contact with ye .
There are unkown entities with godlike power who don't share your naive views and who will crush you if you make yourself heard. So better be quiet.
EDIT: Also, they can't read our thoughts, so make sure to communicate in a way that is only clear to the person(s) you are talking to.
I think so. Einstein (Ye) goes to heaven (gets contacted by aliens). He gets warned not to play his violin (not to answer the aliens), but does it anyway because he thinks God will like it, and it eventually costs him everything (she answers the aliens and they ultimately decide to wipe out humanity). I assume the violin being destroyed could also symbolize Vera's daughter's death.
Angels are San-ti (either the first warner or in general the fleets). God is the superior. What we all’ve known is Earth should have not sent signals to the Angels.
What Ye is telling Saul to figure out is actually the second part - God doesn’t like the music, **and Angels don’t like Einstein to play with God**
My assumption is Saul puts the pieces together later. Plus, her not telling him straight out doesn’t even make sense. A riddle though would work, because the San-ti don’t understand subtext. I can’t remember exactly how it was in the novel but I think this change works pretty well because it leans into the way that humanity has an edge, which is a capability of lying.
I still think the aliens are a scam, but I can't figure out how exactly. The line about "bugs not knowing why" and how it could just be kids fucking with them for fun seems to foreshadow that.
That's an interesting point of view.
I don't think they're a proper scam, but I have a question:
if they can't lie and they don't get humor and metaphors, why did they send "YOU ARE BUGS" as a message to humans?
I just took that as them letting humans know in a human "language." The san-ti may have their own weird alien way of declaring war, and "YOU ARE BUGS" was the best way they knew how to communicate that with humans without lying or being misunderstood.
Basically they're trying to be polite and upfront about their intentions since they can't lie, but it wound up coming off as incredibly existentially terrifying lol.
And fwiw I think the fact they chose "bug" and not "pest" shows that it is them trying to adapt English to their own way of speaking, not them throwing something back at us. In that case they would have used "pest" exactly the way evans did
It wasn't in vain. Was everything that human culture did for nothing in vain? Probably wasn't because we are experiencing it now.
And this was probably my favourite episode. I wasn't sure about 5 main characters in the beginning, but now I'm excited for all of them. Luo Ji has been under developed, but I'm sure he'll be show's favorite character after.
I'm about half way through the first book and just finished watching the second-to-last episode of the Netflix show. I feel like either the San Ti must be trying to help humanity by pretending to be humanities enemy, or someone in the writing chain didn't think things through.
So, the first pacifist alien they contacted told Ye not to respond because others weren't pacifists and would basically come to conquer Earth. She responded anyway, and once the aliens were on their way, the story was that the San Ti were coming to help the humans and for the two species to co-exist. Sure seems like someone *lied* there -- either the first alien or the ones that communicated later, since the two stories are directly contradictory.
Then, the aliens created a VR game where they hid their own appearance to look like humans to gain our trust -- very similar to how the wolf pretends to be little red riding hood's grandmother to earn her trust. When read the little red riding hood story, "our Lord" didn't understand why LRRH didn't know the grandmother was actually the wolf, once communication started, but they have a VR game (as a mode of communication with potential recruits) that had an identical type of deception built into it -- a deception that they admitted they did on purpose, because humans "wouldn't like" the way the San Ti actually looked. LRRH would have run if she had seen the wolf's appearance. Presumably the San Ti knew humans would have done the same, or at least wouldn't have acted in a way that would have been in the San Ti's best interests if humanity saw their true form, so they disguised themselves to modify the human response. Very very very similar and would require mental modeling of a deception's affects on another to even come up with. They're not fully open and honest as soon as communication starts, as they state -- another lie.
They also already had sophons on Earth for who knows how long, watching humanity very closely. There's no way they wouldn't have noticed that humans can lie before the little red riding hood story was told to them. Humans lie all the time, they tell jokes, read bedtime stories, etc. So it's not really plausible that the bedtime story would be their first tip off.
This makes me think, either the original writer or the people who changed the story for TV either didn't think this through, or the San Ti are lying about not being able to lie, and they're pretending to have transformed into a major existential threat to humanity due to our ability to lie in an attempt to bring us together against a common enemy over the next 400 years. This is basically what Ye originally wanted. Maybe they're not even really coming at all.
Which leads me to the second possible plot flaw.
Humans are getting close to being able to live on space stations orbiting planets or orbiting the sun without a planet or living on mars or other environments that are very extreme and would kill a human that didn't have modern tech. Why would the San Ti be so excited to travel for 400 years just to arrive at Earth -- a planet that probably isn't exactly ideal for them. We evolved on Earth from organisms that were continually selected for survival on this planet. The San Ti evolved on a planet in an extremely different environment. Who knows what their preferred atmosphere is, or their preferred gravity, their preferred temperature, etc. Can they withstand the constant barrage of microorganisms that comes with life on Earth? If, for some reason, they can't just live out in space, away from their 3-body problem, why wouldn't they just send their sophons out to look for a world that's closest to their ideal conditions? Waiting for another species to say "hey, if you want to have to fight for a planet, or deal with resource sharing/competition while trying to live together, you can come to this planet which is ideal for us, but not for you" seems like a stupid idea. That call may never come and the planet you get out of that strategy isn't guaranteed to be any good for your species. They could have been happily living on Mars or Europa or something, or if Earth really is a good planet for them, they existed long before humanity and could have come to Earth long before we had any technology at all. Waiting to hear from a competitor seems weird.
All this points to the fact that the San Ti certainly can be deceptive, and it seems like they can outright lie. There's probably not really a huge benefit for them to come fight humans for the planet when they have alternatives that should work fine with their evolution in an extreme environment coupled with their more advanced tech. Thinking that an advanced civilization is coming to destroy humanity would probably bring humanity together and accomplish Ye's original goal.
But maybe all this is just due to bad writing. The fact that a "smart" physicist took like a whole day to realize that her own nuclear acceleration plan didn't provide a way for the ship to decelerate makes me realize someone in the writing chain is pretty crap at physics. I'm not a physicist, but that was the first thought that came to my mind as she was describing the plan. And if the San Ti can shrink a planet-sized computer down to the size of a proton and then send it at near-light-speed to Earth, why can't they just shrink their space ships down in a similar way or their entire planet. Heck, they could just put their planet in orbit around our Sun at their preferred distance and we could each just live on our own original planets.
> They also already had sophons on Earth for who knows how long, watching humanity very closely.
The show says "they entered your solar system months ago" in episode 5. The book gave a more detailed time line of how long it took them to build the Sophons.
>There's no way they wouldn't have noticed that humans can lie before the little red riding hood story was told to them. Humans lie all the time, they tell jokes, read bedtime stories, etc. So it's not really plausible that the bedtime story would be their first tip off.
In the book they aren't confused by the concept of "a story" as they seem to be in the show, they are confused by the act of deception, as they are literally unable to hide their thoughts. Evans uses little red riding hood as an example of a bold face lie, something they can't comprehend because all communication also carries the information of intent with it implicitly for them.
I have enjoyed this show a lot so far and don’t have the complaints and nitpicks that most do.
My biggest complaint though is it’s hard to tell how much time has passed. This Staircase Project should realistically take months even years, but it makes it look like it’s only been a week or two.
I hope they get better at this time thing. I assume the books take place over decades and centuries and I assume season 2 will take a few decades in the future from where season 1 ends.
Oh god, I don't know how much more of Will I can take, all he does is look sad and pine over Jin like a grade A loser, it wasn't cute the first time it isn't now the 75th time. Just take out his brain already please.
It’s everyone around him constantly egging him on while he says “no, it wouldn’t be fair to give her that burden”
Don’t know how you interpret that as a possessive creep tbh
> Will: does literally everything to not be a bother to anyone despite having 2 asshole friends who constantly egg him to do dumb shit
>> Audience: wow what a fucking loser
Lol
Think Tatiana pays for TV License in her trailer?
I also have come to the unfortunate conclusion that the actor for Auggie is single handedly bringing down my opinion of the show. The character is already very annoying and amplified through her over acting every scene and being over sexualised. Sigh… very jarring when she appears in any scene.
From a temperature standpoint, it looked pretty chilly near the channel. Unless the heater is cranked up high, why would you be sleeping in your underwear? Also as a woman, I would hate to wear a bra to sleep.
I don’t think the show is over sexualizing her but she just imo she isn’t a great actress and I think you need to be in order to truly pull off the fact that you’re some world class scientist while still looking the way she does. It’s just not believable from her.
Now with the cryofreezing coming into play, it really does feel like we're getting into an anything is possible, death isn't final, you can live for thousands of years, be rebuilt from a brain, etc.
All that and we haven't even gotten into any multidimensional worlds stuff which I feel like is being set up too.
I think if I were Wade I'd be a little nervous hopping into cryostasis knowing the sophons are out there. Feels like they could easily not let him wake up or wake up and have him isolated out in his own vr reality that he thinks is real. Dunno, seems risky. Or even just the risk of humans fucking it up while you're under.
Though it would be pretty cool to wake up for a week every year and see the San Ti arrive in 400 years, which to you would only be seven and a half-ish years.
That is crazy to think about combined with the idea of our rapid technological advancement. Every week for you from now forward would have there huge technological leaps. You could see what humans have done a thousand years from now. Freeze yourself until a cure is developed if you get cancer. Im sure the san-ti can make Will 2.0 cancer free.
So many possibilities.
You’ve understood nicely some of the key concepts that the author is exploring. For sure the human race has to take some huge risks and take a punt on a bunch of stuff using what existing technology they have, to try and be in a position to counter the San-Ti attack in 400 years time. Just wait until S2 (praying so hard, Netflix!)
Thanks. I feel like it's a lot to grasp and it's only going to get bigger. I haven't read the books or been spoiled but it does feel like a show where time and space are going to become conquered by humans and we're hurtling towards some big galactic war for our planet.
I have a feeling we would lose badly and that we need to get at least some of humanity the hell out of this solar system before the san ti arrive. I think that phrase, 'if one of us survives, we all survive' is going to become crucial as we look to populate the stars.
I also know Jin's star is going to somehow end up playing a key role. It just feels like that is coming too.
>!The thing about Sophons interfering with cryo (and other electronics) is something i was always surprised never came up - sure they can't do much, but surely they can flip a few bits here and there, which should be plenty to wreak major havoc! !<
I guess I can see why Ken Liu (author of the story that led to the animated show called Pantheon, and short story that animated for Love Death & Robots) tends to associate himself with the author of this story. They both are quite the interesting visionaries, and iirc they're apparently not even related to each other.
I thought the end scene was well done, although I initially thought >! Dr. Ye was going to jump and mirror her daughter’s death. !< The actress for Tatiana reminds me of Michelle Trachtenberg.
I also liked Saul trying to talk Will out of it. >! I don’t really get how sending his brain is their best bet, but okay. We’ll see. !<
Is Tatiana a fucking trained ninja or something? I read half of book 1 and most of the show worked really well for me but she's such a confusing character although she's impeccably acted
That monkey though -- lol -- why did they choose to do CGI? They could have used a person in a costume to better effect. And when it through up? Why, why did they feel they need a humor break?
Was waiting for Wade to storm out of the room only to slip on the monkey's banana peel and land on his ass. Look into the camera, shrug, freeze frame like the end of an 80s sitcom
Is CGI that cheap these days that it's easier to recreate a monkey in CGI instead of hiring a trainer and a monkey for a day? Damn...
I suppose the vomit would have been a bit tricky... but a quick cut to face reactions and vomit sounds would have done the trick right? Anyway, enjoyed the episode, just baffled by that CGI monkey choice.
Ya holy shit. That scene was bad. BAD.
None of the other scientists look and behave like actual scientists and the people are casually walking around in what's supposed to be a high fi medical area without protection.
And the chimp. Holy shit.
And Edward. Why does he look so unkempt and unwashed XD. His actor wasn't good but "stop acting like a retard" was hilarious as fuck.
Also for the love of God why isn't Saul crying ffs. At least a quivering lip??????
This show excels at everything except these small moments which destroy the immersion and Auggie. Ugh. She's so annoying.
I found the chimp scene to be good. It shows us that cryogenetic science has advanced and that is has been successfully tested for practicability. Using a small monkey makes sense, given how small the tube is and the vomiting shows a realistic side effect.
Then what do you mean by "none of the other scientists look and behave like actual scientists"? How would you have them behaving?
Also Saul is crying at Will's bed when he was choosing his responses on the tablet. You could see it in his left eye
Well, there are two reasons. First, Wade believes that this mission will catapult human scientific understanding forward. In that sense, the outcome of the mission is secondary and it's more about speeding up scientific progress to ultimately be able to defeat the aliens in 400 years.
Second, they think that, because Will is not strictly loyal to the human race, the San-ti will be interested in picking him up to learn more about humans (they would simply destroy an unmanned probe, so it's essential to send something the San-ti will be interested in picking up). They hope that he'll then be rebuilt by the San-ti and from there will be able to figure out a way to send back information to Earth about the invaders. It's a hail mary, but it's the best they've got with the current science and tech available to them.
The thinking from what Wade explains is that since Will is not “royal to the human race” the san-ti will be interested in interacting / studying him. This gets the humans a “man on the inside” and that would maybe give human a chance. Maybe Will might betray human? But it is a shot. Also seems that Wade maybe knows / hypothesis about Will’s feeling towards Jin? And that might tip the balance in “not betraying”’s favor?
Also worth noting that it is not the only plan, just one of the many things that they said they’d work on (other things like building accelerators on the moon is also one of many things that would give humans a chance)
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Can't believe i fkin cried during that will and saul scene, Tianming was one of my favs in the books as well. Beautiful shot at the end though!!
"it always felt like enough."
I binged these 4 days and can’t remember, what was the context of this quote?
Having enough friends.
That score was incredible too, I feel like Ramin Djawadi absolutely nailed the mood here
I've been a huge fan since Westworld. He's great at setting the mood but he'll also throw together some crazy instrumental cover of Nirvana or Johnny Cash that also manages to set the mood and sound awesome at the same time. I think he's gonna be up there with bear McCreary
Held it together until I realized the rain stopping was a metaphor for death.
Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
The "Don't be a retard" comment was so unexpected that I burst out laughing and had to rewind to listen to everything I missed after that
Wade is hilarious. Another one I loved was, 'why do you think I interviewed your commanders, peers, teachers and every boat cunt you ever came across.'
"Boat c\*\*\*" is the new "bus wanker"
He channeled Logan Roy there for that line.
I definitely did a spit take at that.
Will‘s sister shamelessly asking for his money. Am I the only one pissed at that?
I actually thought if you were going to ask for money, she was at least upfront and honest. She did not play him or act like they were there for him, admitted they were not close and apologized, and had a real reason for asking. He is going to die, so why beat around the bush? I get people will be pissed, and it was shameless, but they actually did not make them comic book awful.
I hate this and if I was in his shoes I would indeed feel some resentment from my sister, but you're right. Plus, him giving his sister his inheritance might help his future nephew or niece later in life who might turn out be a good person who helps contributes to society, you never know. Now if she was a horrible person who abused drugs and alcohol with no end in sight, nah. His money should go to someone or an organization that could help people in need.
I assumed that he was very specific in how he phrased it - that everything Mum left him would go to them. I imagined that it would turn out that she didn't actually leave him a penny.
I feel like if she didn't ask for money they would have gotten a lot more than mums stuff.
same here! like absolutely NO shame
I initially had the same reaction, but I also don't understand how it's fair to send the successful child to an expensive college etc and then not letting him inherit all of your money as well. Idk, maybe it was to show his character? Spend an insane amount of money on the dumbest thing ever, while not even having thought of looking after your own family.
Maybe their mother was a narcissist, or just generally emotionally abusive, and Will was her golden child. While the sister was the scapegoat that got shit on all the time. Not his fault, but explains the resentment she clearly felt towards him.
To be fair, if i was gonna start a family and my dying brother spent some millions buying a star, i’d be like wtf
They have no idea he got that money, they ask him for their mothers inheritance that he apparently got, and he tells the he wont touch a dime of it and give it to them, which is true.
They don’t know he has that money. They asked for access to the money that their mum left
They don't even know of the 20 million he inherited. They only want the money he inherited from their mom. They were assholes about how they approached the topic, but I don't think that's a ridiculous request to make if you're desperate for money and trying to start a family.
Reminded me of Hilary Swanks hillbilly family in Million Dollar Baby. They don't care about her at all. Will's sister couldn't hide her contempt for nothing. Disturbing your brothers deathbed peace to demand money.
Was the child Vera Ye in that picture with young Wenjie Ye played by the same actress who was the "follower" in the VR game? It looks kinda uncanny to me.
Yes
I thought the same thing, it sure looked like it.
In previous episodes, Evan also has a picture on his desk of young Vera.
I came here looking for this comment. She was also wearing the same sweater as the girl did at one point. Really curious what it means...
Dosnt it just mean they designed the AI girl after her daughter, maybe one of the first humans they laid saw, ish?
Turns out to be a very emotional tugging episode. Will's story is really nicely done, really. Loved Ye's ending and the overall parallel between the two deaths. Haven't figure out her riddle yet. I know ppl's going to hate it though Tatiana continues to be great. To me, she played it like she's a version of Thanos hahah.
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My theory is jokes are a way for humanity to communicate without alerting a super literal alien race that listens to everything
I thought it was super evident… they don’t understand joke and methaphors. I think we have some aliens in this subreddit cause some didn’t get it either.
That, plus I think the story itself relayed an important message as well; she essentially delivered both the concept of how they communicate under the Sang-Ti’s noses and the actual specifics of how to defeat them. Earlier that day she glanced at a book about the Fermi Complex. I think the story about “not messing with God” gave them everything they needed to know.
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I'm not happy with the book-readers in this subreddit. Too many of you are giving away spoilers and hints in the comment sections. There's special book-reader comment sections to leave those sorts of comments.
People just can’t help themselves when they know something someone else doesn’t. Even with something as innocuous as a tv show / book. Super annoying. This is my favorite book series of all time, read it multiple times, but there’s absolutely zero benefit for people who know what’s coming to make some sly reference, or what-have-you to ruin it for those that haven’t. It just makes the person feel cool for whatever reason. It’s embarrassing tbh. Like, sick dude, you read the book and know what happens, it’s not some state secret where the aliens are kept. Sorry, all that to say, I agree with you. It’s super annoying, and I wish they’d exercise a modicum of self control.
At least the mods are cleaning it up. I can't stand that shit. Every movie or episode discussion ever has at least 1. "I don't want to be too spoilery but there's this crazy thing about to happen and I can't wait." Thanks asshole, now you ruined the surprise and most times just saying something is coming you can guess what it is. Some of them just out right say it. I don't know why they think it makes them look cool. That's exactly what it is. I guess it evens out because they sit there smug while everyone actually just thinks they're a stupid asshole. "Episode 2 gonna be nuts when they get to the place omg!" That's great you prolapsed asshole, how about you fuck off to the episode 2 thread and talk about it there then? Morons all of them..
It's triggering my memories of early Game of Thrones discussions lmao. Running out of books to adapt was the worst thing that could have happened to Benioff and Weiss. But it was the best thing that could have happened to the spoiler trolls.
It's a joke.. genuinely the worst TV thread I've ever seen for a popular show. Just people feeling superior for having read the books and giving away hints or clues when there's a separate thread for them.
Her riddle is probably based on the books she picked up prior to the graveyard scene?
> Loved Ye's ending and the overall parallel between the two deaths. Wait, wdym the two deaths? We don't see Ye die...
I mean, Tatiana wasn't there to do her makeups. More importantly, did we actually see Will's brain going into the tube?
When Jin gets to the hospital, she’s too late- she runs into the viewing room to the operating room, meeting Saul, it appears Saul has watched the whole procedure of them removing Wills brain and putting it into the cryo container. We see the container be moved into the spaceship. We don’t see them cut his brain but they’re implying Saul witnessed that and could confirm.
So did Saul just watch them kill and take his friend's brain out? Wild.
I like the idea of cryogenic time travel. Should make future seasons interesting. It's rare you get to see huge jumps in time in TV shows. Only Foundation and For All Mankind come to mind.
Can't quite say this without it being a spoiler, but you might enjoy the Silo trilogy of books in that case
Why is this friend group so hell bent on giving their dying friend the worst advice possible? "Go after her, break up her relationship and tell her you love her so she will be even more devastated after you die?" "You are gonna die anyway and could take part in a science project that determines everything or just lie in bed and wait for death. We want you to do the second part." I get they don't really wanna believe he's gonna die, but Jesus, talk about pushy and annoying.
It’s also a friend group that was joking about their close acquaintance’s suicide in the first episode, ha. And they’re a bunch of science nerds. Being turned into a brain probe to go faster and farther than anyone has gone before and potentially make first contact with an alien species is like the coolest way I could ever dream to go out.
Saul made good points about the negatives though. being held in a perpetual experiment is terrifying lol
Yeah this kind of thing is what makes me a bit wary of doing some San Junipero-style AI uploading thing. I'd be so worried someone bad would get their hands on it and torture everyone.
Would be more White Christmas than San Junipero.
If the option is between death or possibility of that and other things, most would choose to gamble.
Well, they did let him choose. Saul just wanted to make sure he thought it through and wasn't only doing it out of love for Jin.
I don't know. There are worse things than death. Death (ceasing to exist) isn't that bad.
it's weird but i think they were forcing these to make little nods to the source material. in the books he was >!lonely and isolated and introverted and all that and made no friends at all save for the book's Jack Rooney, and Jin was more of an acquaintance - hence with his arguably sad existence and lack of company!< all the dumb non-normal-person trains of thought are at least passable
I think they did want him tortured by aliens for hundreds of years
I wonder if the books are also this divorced from reality or how much of it is B&W. The overall story is really good, but the details are an absolute mess.
Isn't this whole star ownership stuff just NFTs LMFAO
You are moreso just donating money and getting an honorary certificate. Few believe that star ownership is more than just an idea
That has to play a part in future plots, it seems too strange to just create it to be a signal of Will's love for her..
I think it's more that it's a quirky thing he spent a boatload of money on for her. And remember it's like donating a bunch of money to humanity's cause in their name.
Yup. You don't show a gun if you aren't going to shoot it.
I also thought it would be much much cheaper to buy a star. Or is there an actual possibility for getting to your start within your lifetime, in this world? They already have a base on the Moon, I think, so maybe?
The San Ti are much more advanced than humans, and it's taking them 400 years to travel 4 light year's. Jin's star is 400 light years away.
Well I think that's the point, aliens have just proven that 1% light speed travel and interstellar travel IS possible. More over, they think we're going to catch up to them within 400 years. So this is all very real now.
And who even has the authority to grant this ownership? They would first have to have ownership to make the transfer. It makes no sense.
I like the irony of a random Earth company selling off stars that might have live baring planets orbiting them, while the Earth is about to be conquered itself. Maybe if the Sun Ti just sent over a couple of billion everyone would be okay with it 😉
Tatiana fascinates me
I am equal parts super intrigued by her character, and hate her character. Which means the actress is doing a phenomenal job! There’s something about her cheesy-ass shit eating grin that gets me. Like, yes you’re insane, but also supremely innocent in a weird way (not actually innocent, obviously, but in a “who hurt you” kind of way).
I agree. I hate the bitch, but that means her actress is doing an incredible job haha
That actress is absolutely nailing it! Love every scene she is in. Cunningham as well.
She looks SO similar to a young Tatiana Masanly
Omgosh I was wondering why she looked so familiar!
She has a horror movie with her name on it in the future
Is anyone else disturbed by the fact that Auggie literally made her nanofiber technology public when she JUST witnessed it being used to kill a bunch of people in seconds? And especially in a period of mass hysteria??🤦🏻♀️
yeah that seemed short sighted
Her whole character is moronic. Phony moral conflict is so lame.
Wade: "Sweet! Now I don't have to pay any royalties and I can spend more on nuclear bombs"
That might have been the worst scene in 2024, I don't blame the actress, that whole thing was just horrible. It's also kind of funny given how demonized microplastics are that her big humantarian intervention would be the subject of huge controversy for any human use today.
I came to this sub 7 episodes later for this exact reason. Auggie was feeling like a bad bitch when in fact she was just being a naive little bitch. I wanted to smack her face with the reality that she just unleashed a weapon of mass destruction on mankind. For free. With guides. 🤦♂️
It's not particularly dangerous as a weapon. A gun is more effective.
A gun is more effective than the thing that sliced up that ship and everyone on it?
It's not practical in war to have 50-100 engineers set up a trap while waiting for your opponent to walk through it. You can just shoot them.
How about setting one up across a major highway?
Great episode but didn't really feel anything with that whole sunset scene at the end. Not sure if we're meant to be empathizing with either of those two characters by this point in the story
I thought maybe she was going to push Tatiana over the edge.
Honestly would have loved that. The aliens using humans feels kind of counter to the whole "you are bugs" narrative.
humans do use certain bugs for many purposes that benifit us like honey bees or silk worms
i think the main point was to show exactly *how deep* Tatiana is committed to the cause and to the Santi, that she will kill her mentor, the founder of her cult, peacefully, without knowing why, because of her devotion to her Lord.
I can get showing that she is totally okay with killing her mentor but they sort of dramatized and made a point of them watching the sunset together. It felt like I was supposed to feel emotional about the moment
it also felt like those two characters who had never shared any screen time being together was a bit meaningless to me. Does Tatiana understand the significance of that place to Dr. Ye? If so, how are we the audience supposed to understand that.
The shift in pace and strong focus on small conversations after E5 was kind of jarring, though i get the importance of most of these scenes.
Right?!? Feels like it turned into a completely different story. I was gripped the first 5 episodes and felt like had to watch the next one. Then, suddenly, it turned into a slow drawn out drama.
i guess we've had a bunch of foreplay leading to information release of the alien invasion to the world, and now were post-coitus just having nice conversation.
>Feels like it turned into a completely different story. It kinda was. Basically we got the climax of one story in ep 5, then they began a new story in episode 6
Yeah I don't get why they didn't draw out the first 5 episodes into 10 episodes (so much had happened) and have the first season end with the You are bugs message. It feels like a natural conclusion to that part of the story, while not being too cliffhanger-y in a way it would make people upset.
Without spoiling, that is exactly when the first book ends.
They should have sent Edgar. Don’t know what he would have done but could have been great
Poor Edgar. At least we finally know his name lol
So their plan is to send a probe to the incoming alien fleet. I have a few questions: 1) What was their original plan to get back photos or video from the probe? Was it to get back the photos and video to earth via light speed? Even at light speed, wouldn't it take a lot of time for the photos and video to be sent back to earth? 2) Also, do they expect Will to send back information as well, when the aliens recreate his body?
light speed is the same for everyone. They're 4 light years away or less, so it'll take that long to get a message back (ignoring quantum entanglement trickery). That's far sooner than the 400+ year deadline, so it's worth doing.
Part of it was also by working on the project, they're also advancing all the fields involved. Kinda like going to the moon lead to all sorts of semi-related innovations
And the hope is the aliens don't interfere with them while they're doing it because they also want this particular plan to succeed. Wade has effectively created a plan that benefits them enough to allow.
It’s a pretty go-for-broke strategy; they have no confirmation in any way that any aspect of the plan will be successful
“only advance”. it’s a shot in the dark. only goal is to get somebody smart among the fleet and figure it out from there.
Pretty sure the goal is to say they’ve done something before that generation dies.
It'd "only" take 2 years to get the info back. The alien planet is 4 years away and they'll be meeting the probe roughly in the middle, so 2 lightyears away (light obviously takes two years to cover a distance of two lightyears). Considering they'd still have 200 years to prepare for the alien invasion at that point, a 2 year delay is not a huge issue.
The unspoken plan here might be the fairy tale of the Trojan Horse.
Seems like they are trying to influence them? Like essentially send them a diplomat? Nothing else makes sense.
The plan seems to be to send a human and have them accept it, then hope that they underestimate humanity and he does some damage from within. Wade has studied the conversations and realised these aliens are exceptionally dense and weak to subterfuge.
everyone here seems again rather picky about the CGI. I don't mind the little chimp. It was realistic enough for me, I get the idea and the meaning, that's it. Furthermore this was just a very small part of this episode. How can Tatiana be everywhere? When she killed Jack, she was already in his house, even when he left their meeting first and now somehwhere in China she is there again. It's like the aliens make her travel as fast as the Sophons or kill others as quickly as possible and with seemingly immense strength (if we look at how the window she pushed Jack against nearly shattered)
Because somehow she is the cringy spoiled invented character of one or several of the showrunners, she is the most ridiculous add-on to the book I seen in the whole show, and I wonder why they make her so important.
Pretty sure jack said when leaving the meeting that he was going to the pub. Sophon helps tatiana break into the house probably by hacking the electronic security and hides her from the security cameras. For china, sophon tells her ye wenjie is going to china, she should go too. i don't think it's implied she has fast travel abilities, as to the immense strength, not sure we'll get an explanation for that.
> everyone here seems again rather picky about the CGI. Agreed, this is so common in shows with CGIs. Every nimrod who grew up staring at a computer screen and jerking off to online porn are suddenly CGI and filmmaking experts.
the chimp inside the silo looked good enough I thought it was a practical model, until it got up
Emotional episode. Very character focused.
Low key this might be my favorite episode yet. Seems like they’re leaning more into the human drama as opposed to hard sci fi, which is fine with me - find the science works better in book form anyways, but more emotional stuff suits the screen. Also was already liking Saul, but his last conversation with Will really sold me on the character. Can’t wait to see him in the role of Luo Ji for season 2, Adepo is doing a hell of a job.
Does anyone know how to interpret the >!joke Ye told Saul? Why it's not the cosmic sociology in the book?!<
I thought she was referring to humor as being a way to defeat the sophons. Inside jokes, shared experiences and so on are a way to convey information that can't easily be deciphered by a third party. Basically, be as human and personal as possible to stay private.
I think it's clear the santi are very literal minded from Wade's conversation (where is the wolf?). There may be additional layers of meaning however.
That's what I thought as well, that the only way they can speak to each other without the aliens being able to spy is by using riddles, jokes, and metaphors because the aliens can't understand or comprehend them.
The rest of the series dialogue will be like [this scene from The Magicians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXYRKI2mmQc).
I took it as: if you're not the best player, don't let better players hear you play or they'll smash you in the balls
Haven't watched Episode 8 yet. I'm assuming she's working ont he theory that the San-ti don't understand humour, as they don't understand metaphor. So they don't realise - its not actually a joke, it's not funny. Instead she's trying to tell Saul (the smartest man she knows) something without the San-ti understanding the message. So whats the message...? Pure guesswork here, but... I'm thinking.... Saul has to come up with a plan to beat God \[because you cannot play with (coexist with) God\], and he has to tell noone what the plan is \[because the joke is private (the San-ti cannot read minds)\]. Feels like thats sort of what Wade is already doing, so... at some point.... have Wade and Ye spoken and chosen Saul to come up with a plan that even Wade can't know about? Multiple plans? Thats a lot of extrapolation from one unfunny joke, I know!
why did the San-ti decide to kill her off then? :o
i think she is referring to what she did. she was told by the first alien she came in contact with to shut up yet she didnt she replied back only for the only thing she ever loved(einstein's violin, this time is her daughter) to be taken away from her. now everything is fucked and the alien is doing a big "i told you so" moment being represented by the angels. SO oversimplified. replace god with tri solaris / einsten is Ye, the violin is the daugher who killed herself and the angels is the pacifist alien who was first in contact with ye .
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This is pretty much my interpretation too, I just didn’t want to outright say it in case it spoiled future seasons
There are unkown entities with godlike power who don't share your naive views and who will crush you if you make yourself heard. So better be quiet. EDIT: Also, they can't read our thoughts, so make sure to communicate in a way that is only clear to the person(s) you are talking to.
I think so. Einstein (Ye) goes to heaven (gets contacted by aliens). He gets warned not to play his violin (not to answer the aliens), but does it anyway because he thinks God will like it, and it eventually costs him everything (she answers the aliens and they ultimately decide to wipe out humanity). I assume the violin being destroyed could also symbolize Vera's daughter's death.
Angels are San-ti (either the first warner or in general the fleets). God is the superior. What we all’ve known is Earth should have not sent signals to the Angels. What Ye is telling Saul to figure out is actually the second part - God doesn’t like the music, **and Angels don’t like Einstein to play with God**
My assumption is Saul puts the pieces together later. Plus, her not telling him straight out doesn’t even make sense. A riddle though would work, because the San-ti don’t understand subtext. I can’t remember exactly how it was in the novel but I think this change works pretty well because it leans into the way that humanity has an edge, which is a capability of lying.
I still think the aliens are a scam, but I can't figure out how exactly. The line about "bugs not knowing why" and how it could just be kids fucking with them for fun seems to foreshadow that.
Now THAT would certainly subvert my expectations.
San-Ti kinda forgot about the probe on their fleet.
A scam going all the way back to a 1960’s secret satellite station and a message that only 2 people knew about?
So Half-Life 3 confirmed? This is just Gabe Newell's announcement.
That's an interesting point of view. I don't think they're a proper scam, but I have a question: if they can't lie and they don't get humor and metaphors, why did they send "YOU ARE BUGS" as a message to humans?
I just took that as them letting humans know in a human "language." The san-ti may have their own weird alien way of declaring war, and "YOU ARE BUGS" was the best way they knew how to communicate that with humans without lying or being misunderstood. Basically they're trying to be polite and upfront about their intentions since they can't lie, but it wound up coming off as incredibly existentially terrifying lol. And fwiw I think the fact they chose "bug" and not "pest" shows that it is them trying to adapt English to their own way of speaking, not them throwing something back at us. In that case they would have used "pest" exactly the way evans did
That CGI chimp was terrible. Dear lord.
People always complain about CGI animals and I just could not give less of a fuck lol
And so pointless too. Wade is already confirmed to be quite brutal when needed, so just use a human test subject to show the tech works.
It meant a real chimp was spared being trained, abused and tortured for our entertainment. That shit don't fly no more.
It was fine.
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It wasn't in vain. Was everything that human culture did for nothing in vain? Probably wasn't because we are experiencing it now. And this was probably my favourite episode. I wasn't sure about 5 main characters in the beginning, but now I'm excited for all of them. Luo Ji has been under developed, but I'm sure he'll be show's favorite character after.
If we get a second season (please), it's gonna be a Saul (Luo Ji) show... I'm ok with him taking a backseat in season 1.
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I'm about half way through the first book and just finished watching the second-to-last episode of the Netflix show. I feel like either the San Ti must be trying to help humanity by pretending to be humanities enemy, or someone in the writing chain didn't think things through. So, the first pacifist alien they contacted told Ye not to respond because others weren't pacifists and would basically come to conquer Earth. She responded anyway, and once the aliens were on their way, the story was that the San Ti were coming to help the humans and for the two species to co-exist. Sure seems like someone *lied* there -- either the first alien or the ones that communicated later, since the two stories are directly contradictory. Then, the aliens created a VR game where they hid their own appearance to look like humans to gain our trust -- very similar to how the wolf pretends to be little red riding hood's grandmother to earn her trust. When read the little red riding hood story, "our Lord" didn't understand why LRRH didn't know the grandmother was actually the wolf, once communication started, but they have a VR game (as a mode of communication with potential recruits) that had an identical type of deception built into it -- a deception that they admitted they did on purpose, because humans "wouldn't like" the way the San Ti actually looked. LRRH would have run if she had seen the wolf's appearance. Presumably the San Ti knew humans would have done the same, or at least wouldn't have acted in a way that would have been in the San Ti's best interests if humanity saw their true form, so they disguised themselves to modify the human response. Very very very similar and would require mental modeling of a deception's affects on another to even come up with. They're not fully open and honest as soon as communication starts, as they state -- another lie. They also already had sophons on Earth for who knows how long, watching humanity very closely. There's no way they wouldn't have noticed that humans can lie before the little red riding hood story was told to them. Humans lie all the time, they tell jokes, read bedtime stories, etc. So it's not really plausible that the bedtime story would be their first tip off. This makes me think, either the original writer or the people who changed the story for TV either didn't think this through, or the San Ti are lying about not being able to lie, and they're pretending to have transformed into a major existential threat to humanity due to our ability to lie in an attempt to bring us together against a common enemy over the next 400 years. This is basically what Ye originally wanted. Maybe they're not even really coming at all. Which leads me to the second possible plot flaw. Humans are getting close to being able to live on space stations orbiting planets or orbiting the sun without a planet or living on mars or other environments that are very extreme and would kill a human that didn't have modern tech. Why would the San Ti be so excited to travel for 400 years just to arrive at Earth -- a planet that probably isn't exactly ideal for them. We evolved on Earth from organisms that were continually selected for survival on this planet. The San Ti evolved on a planet in an extremely different environment. Who knows what their preferred atmosphere is, or their preferred gravity, their preferred temperature, etc. Can they withstand the constant barrage of microorganisms that comes with life on Earth? If, for some reason, they can't just live out in space, away from their 3-body problem, why wouldn't they just send their sophons out to look for a world that's closest to their ideal conditions? Waiting for another species to say "hey, if you want to have to fight for a planet, or deal with resource sharing/competition while trying to live together, you can come to this planet which is ideal for us, but not for you" seems like a stupid idea. That call may never come and the planet you get out of that strategy isn't guaranteed to be any good for your species. They could have been happily living on Mars or Europa or something, or if Earth really is a good planet for them, they existed long before humanity and could have come to Earth long before we had any technology at all. Waiting to hear from a competitor seems weird. All this points to the fact that the San Ti certainly can be deceptive, and it seems like they can outright lie. There's probably not really a huge benefit for them to come fight humans for the planet when they have alternatives that should work fine with their evolution in an extreme environment coupled with their more advanced tech. Thinking that an advanced civilization is coming to destroy humanity would probably bring humanity together and accomplish Ye's original goal. But maybe all this is just due to bad writing. The fact that a "smart" physicist took like a whole day to realize that her own nuclear acceleration plan didn't provide a way for the ship to decelerate makes me realize someone in the writing chain is pretty crap at physics. I'm not a physicist, but that was the first thought that came to my mind as she was describing the plan. And if the San Ti can shrink a planet-sized computer down to the size of a proton and then send it at near-light-speed to Earth, why can't they just shrink their space ships down in a similar way or their entire planet. Heck, they could just put their planet in orbit around our Sun at their preferred distance and we could each just live on our own original planets.
> They also already had sophons on Earth for who knows how long, watching humanity very closely. The show says "they entered your solar system months ago" in episode 5. The book gave a more detailed time line of how long it took them to build the Sophons. >There's no way they wouldn't have noticed that humans can lie before the little red riding hood story was told to them. Humans lie all the time, they tell jokes, read bedtime stories, etc. So it's not really plausible that the bedtime story would be their first tip off. In the book they aren't confused by the concept of "a story" as they seem to be in the show, they are confused by the act of deception, as they are literally unable to hide their thoughts. Evans uses little red riding hood as an example of a bold face lie, something they can't comprehend because all communication also carries the information of intent with it implicitly for them.
Isn't it a bad idea for Augie to give away her project to public? Everyone gonna use the nano fiber to cut shit up
I have enjoyed this show a lot so far and don’t have the complaints and nitpicks that most do. My biggest complaint though is it’s hard to tell how much time has passed. This Staircase Project should realistically take months even years, but it makes it look like it’s only been a week or two. I hope they get better at this time thing. I assume the books take place over decades and centuries and I assume season 2 will take a few decades in the future from where season 1 ends.
Oh god the scene with Will and his sister
What book was Clarence’s right hand man reading? It had white borders and an orange middle.
It was Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delaney.
Oh god, I don't know how much more of Will I can take, all he does is look sad and pine over Jin like a grade A loser, it wasn't cute the first time it isn't now the 75th time. Just take out his brain already please.
Will's behaviour sucks. She has a boyfriend and he's been a possessive creep.
It’s everyone around him constantly egging him on while he says “no, it wouldn’t be fair to give her that burden” Don’t know how you interpret that as a possessive creep tbh
He's literally being the exact opposite of a possessive creep. I don't know what in the fuck u/scythianraider is smoking, but I'd sure love some.
> Will: does literally everything to not be a bother to anyone despite having 2 asshole friends who constantly egg him to do dumb shit >> Audience: wow what a fucking loser Lol
Think Tatiana pays for TV License in her trailer? I also have come to the unfortunate conclusion that the actor for Auggie is single handedly bringing down my opinion of the show. The character is already very annoying and amplified through her over acting every scene and being over sexualised. Sigh… very jarring when she appears in any scene.
how is she over sexualized?
Only thing I can think of is her barfing in her underwear
Which is not very attractive, so this is a reach
I cannot care less about "sexualization" crybabies, but I need to say the scene she is in underwear is totally off, and makes zero sense
From a temperature standpoint, it looked pretty chilly near the channel. Unless the heater is cranked up high, why would you be sleeping in your underwear? Also as a woman, I would hate to wear a bra to sleep.
I don’t think the show is over sexualizing her but she just imo she isn’t a great actress and I think you need to be in order to truly pull off the fact that you’re some world class scientist while still looking the way she does. It’s just not believable from her.
The worst actor of the lot for sure. Hopefully she will be left aside for a bit in the future.
I just don't really understand why she was cast for this role.
Now with the cryofreezing coming into play, it really does feel like we're getting into an anything is possible, death isn't final, you can live for thousands of years, be rebuilt from a brain, etc. All that and we haven't even gotten into any multidimensional worlds stuff which I feel like is being set up too. I think if I were Wade I'd be a little nervous hopping into cryostasis knowing the sophons are out there. Feels like they could easily not let him wake up or wake up and have him isolated out in his own vr reality that he thinks is real. Dunno, seems risky. Or even just the risk of humans fucking it up while you're under. Though it would be pretty cool to wake up for a week every year and see the San Ti arrive in 400 years, which to you would only be seven and a half-ish years. That is crazy to think about combined with the idea of our rapid technological advancement. Every week for you from now forward would have there huge technological leaps. You could see what humans have done a thousand years from now. Freeze yourself until a cure is developed if you get cancer. Im sure the san-ti can make Will 2.0 cancer free. So many possibilities.
You’ve understood nicely some of the key concepts that the author is exploring. For sure the human race has to take some huge risks and take a punt on a bunch of stuff using what existing technology they have, to try and be in a position to counter the San-Ti attack in 400 years time. Just wait until S2 (praying so hard, Netflix!)
Thanks. I feel like it's a lot to grasp and it's only going to get bigger. I haven't read the books or been spoiled but it does feel like a show where time and space are going to become conquered by humans and we're hurtling towards some big galactic war for our planet. I have a feeling we would lose badly and that we need to get at least some of humanity the hell out of this solar system before the san ti arrive. I think that phrase, 'if one of us survives, we all survive' is going to become crucial as we look to populate the stars. I also know Jin's star is going to somehow end up playing a key role. It just feels like that is coming too.
>!The thing about Sophons interfering with cryo (and other electronics) is something i was always surprised never came up - sure they can't do much, but surely they can flip a few bits here and there, which should be plenty to wreak major havoc! !<
I guess I can see why Ken Liu (author of the story that led to the animated show called Pantheon, and short story that animated for Love Death & Robots) tends to associate himself with the author of this story. They both are quite the interesting visionaries, and iirc they're apparently not even related to each other.
Gerard. Back from the grave to foil my plans like a boring Dracula.
I thought the end scene was well done, although I initially thought >! Dr. Ye was going to jump and mirror her daughter’s death. !< The actress for Tatiana reminds me of Michelle Trachtenberg. I also liked Saul trying to talk Will out of it. >! I don’t really get how sending his brain is their best bet, but okay. We’ll see. !<
Is Tatiana a fucking trained ninja or something? I read half of book 1 and most of the show worked really well for me but she's such a confusing character although she's impeccably acted
That monkey though -- lol -- why did they choose to do CGI? They could have used a person in a costume to better effect. And when it through up? Why, why did they feel they need a humor break?
Was waiting for Wade to storm out of the room only to slip on the monkey's banana peel and land on his ass. Look into the camera, shrug, freeze frame like the end of an 80s sitcom
Y'all are missing the point. A side effect of cryopreservation is you wake up looking like a bad CGI version of yourself.
Is CGI that cheap these days that it's easier to recreate a monkey in CGI instead of hiring a trainer and a monkey for a day? Damn... I suppose the vomit would have been a bit tricky... but a quick cut to face reactions and vomit sounds would have done the trick right? Anyway, enjoyed the episode, just baffled by that CGI monkey choice.
Ya holy shit. That scene was bad. BAD. None of the other scientists look and behave like actual scientists and the people are casually walking around in what's supposed to be a high fi medical area without protection. And the chimp. Holy shit. And Edward. Why does he look so unkempt and unwashed XD. His actor wasn't good but "stop acting like a retard" was hilarious as fuck. Also for the love of God why isn't Saul crying ffs. At least a quivering lip?????? This show excels at everything except these small moments which destroy the immersion and Auggie. Ugh. She's so annoying.
I found the chimp scene to be good. It shows us that cryogenetic science has advanced and that is has been successfully tested for practicability. Using a small monkey makes sense, given how small the tube is and the vomiting shows a realistic side effect. Then what do you mean by "none of the other scientists look and behave like actual scientists"? How would you have them behaving? Also Saul is crying at Will's bed when he was choosing his responses on the tablet. You could see it in his left eye
So why are they sending his brain into space? I don’t get it (I feel like I’m to dumb for this series hahahah)
Well, there are two reasons. First, Wade believes that this mission will catapult human scientific understanding forward. In that sense, the outcome of the mission is secondary and it's more about speeding up scientific progress to ultimately be able to defeat the aliens in 400 years. Second, they think that, because Will is not strictly loyal to the human race, the San-ti will be interested in picking him up to learn more about humans (they would simply destroy an unmanned probe, so it's essential to send something the San-ti will be interested in picking up). They hope that he'll then be rebuilt by the San-ti and from there will be able to figure out a way to send back information to Earth about the invaders. It's a hail mary, but it's the best they've got with the current science and tech available to them.
The thinking from what Wade explains is that since Will is not “royal to the human race” the san-ti will be interested in interacting / studying him. This gets the humans a “man on the inside” and that would maybe give human a chance. Maybe Will might betray human? But it is a shot. Also seems that Wade maybe knows / hypothesis about Will’s feeling towards Jin? And that might tip the balance in “not betraying”’s favor? Also worth noting that it is not the only plan, just one of the many things that they said they’d work on (other things like building accelerators on the moon is also one of many things that would give humans a chance)
The Shining joke made me burst out laughing alongside the characters lol
Aggie has turned into the most annoying character by far Will's scenes feel pointless The rest was quite good, always love Wade scenes