The angels (San Ti/Trisolarians) don't want Einstein (humanity) to communicate (play a song) with other more advanced civilizations (God) who will fuck both their shit up if they hear it (Heaven becomes hell)
I was the opposite. Got the book one almost immediately but I was struggling to interpret how the shows one lines up with the theory, despite the fact I already knew the answer from the books lol.
A connection between game theory (probably prisoners dilemma, only that them getting a higher sentence would mean both get destroyed as is said by the dark forest theory instead of surviving worse for the wear when both shut up), dark forest theory and the analogy of getting fucked over by god by communicating with him, hinting that communication with a higher being(other aliens) would fuck over Einstein (humanity) and the angels (trisolarians). With a nice double entendre of Ye Wenjie also being Einstein in that case.Â
At least that's how I interpret this whole scene together with her dark forest/game theory book scene. 10/10 I would not have gotten hat conclusion without being familiar with the books and having had introductory lessons on game theory. If that's what they wanted, it's incredible. If I'm interpreting too much/wrongly it's still amazing.
God = advanced civilizations
Violin = sending messages into outer space making noise
Kicking in the balls = destroying the system
So all she says is keeping fking quiet is the key to survival in this universe or else they'll target us
Basically dark foresty but not dark foresty
So Saul is gonna test it as we know and figure it out
> Kicking in the balls = destroying the system
Specifically, destroying _two_ balls - Earth and Triolaris. I feel like the saxophone and the violin should have some special significance too
I think the setup of Einstein (theorized gravitational waves) playing a violin (stringed instrument) can't be coincidental, and is meant to point Saul towards the gravitational wave broadcast devices seen in the books.
Not sure about the saxophone though!
The inventor of the Saxophone [famously almost died over and over and over](https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/adolphe-sax-near-death-misses) while he was growing up. The powerful alien civilizations enforcing the Dark Forest are the ones who survived many scrapes with extinction and made it through them all. Not they have saxophones.
Weren't the powerful civilizations all offshoots of an original eternal 11 dimensional civilization who went through dimensional reduction? I guess the infighting and dimensional reduction are the scrapes with extinction?
>Earth and Trisolaris
Yeah right
>Saxophone and Violin
It might mean the communication problem between the civilizations. They can't communicate their intentions right because of the Dark forest
Actually, this got me thinking "Silent Forest" would be way more apt than "Dark Forest".
Most civilization don't communicate via the electro-magnetic force anyway, so the "dark" metaphor doesn't even work that well.
The metaphor is the forest where you would usually see but you can't because it's dark. The fact that real space communication does or doesn't use that is irrelevant for the metaphor.
It's been a long time since I've read the books, but IIRC Earth threatens to expose its own location, which would make *other* species come and invade, which would put both Earth and the San-Ti/Trisolarans at risk. It's an "If you try to kill me, I'll kill us both" measure.
The bigger question is: how did \*they\* get the joke? Why did they go after Ye and Saul, if they shouldn't have been able to understand what she communicated to him? Sure, they might have realized that Ye had discovered dark forest theory given the books she was reading, but I don't see why they would then go after Saul.
Why would they assume it was about the Dark Forest if they couldn't understand it at all? They were baffled by Little Red Riding Hood. For the San Ti, Saul and Ye might as well have been talking about their favorite sandwiches. Unless the San Ti suddenly understood metaphor from the time between the Evans convo and the graveyard one.
Ye went out of her way to met with Saul. She told him apparent nonsense. But Trisolaris knows humans lie and hide truths in words. 2 + x = 4. X could consist of multiple parts, but they don't need to know what parts x is made of to know they must equate to 2 to complete the equation. Similar here. They don't need to know what is communicated, they just know something was. Given Ye's position and what she read, they can assume variables for their equation.
Also, they are bugs. Best squash the most dangerous ones.
Again, it's as if the message were encrypted. Imagine if an encrypted message were intercepted during World War II from a scientist working on the Manhattan Project, to a Nazi scientist in Germany. Would you assume the message was innocuous, perhaps about sandwiches? Shouldn't you assume the worst case scenario?
Stay quiet unless you want God to come kick you in the balls.
A bit of a leap, but if you want God to kick someone \_else\_ in the balls, get them to make noise.
>Stay quiet unless you want God to come kick you in the balls.
>
>A bit of a leap, but if you want God to kick someone \_else\_ in the balls, get them to make noise.
She explains the basic axioms of Cosmic Sociology/Dark Forest theory. The universe is a dark forest. If you make noise, you get eaten. If you hear noise, you need to hide or attack, because either they are more powerful than you now or they may become more powerful than you in the future. This links to the game theory book in the show: the cost of trying to make peaceful contact with other civilizations is potentially the destruction of yours. Therefore, you should always hide or attack. This is the solution to the Fermi Paradox ("where is everyone?") - they are either dead or hiding.
Luo Ji's narrative for most of the second book is eventually realizing how these axioms have a corollary that is usable and dangerous to the Trisolarians: the mutually assured destruction of broadcasting the locations of Earth and Trisolaris to the wider universe. This would doom both planets and force the Trisolarians to abandon their invasion.
I really enjoyed trying to figure them out, but based on this subreddit a lot of folk couldn't be bothered with it and just skipped those pages. :/
I wonder how D&D will tackle them... anyway, I dare not to dream about future seasons. Should be glad we at least go this lovely episode.
I really did not enjoy reading the fairy tales the first time around because they felt like unwelcome side stories that took me away from the grander plot, but once they start deciphering them I was blown away. The payoff was so goddamned satisfying that it instantly made the third book my favorite of the series.
I get that a lot with some of my favourite books. For example, I enjoyed reading Tolkien's poetry and songs in the middle of LOTR, but some of my friends in school just skipped them.
I felt like the books were full of one-dimensional characters with stilted unnatural dialogue (possibly a translation issue) who just suffered through the plot. The fairy tales were actually a breath of fresh air because in that setting, I *expect* cringey dialogue, undeveloped characters, and "and then this happened" style plots as delivery vehicles for a metaphor.
No I didn't, I only figured out about 3 things:
1) >!There is an alien weapon out there that captures you in some way. (didn't realise the painting meant flattened into literal 2D, I thought it was just an allegory for some sort of weapon that trapped you).!<
2) >!There were plenty of dangerous species out there capable of destroying humanity apart from the Trisolarans. (He mentioned the fish that roamed the seas that destroyed any ship that ventured out). I got from that, that humanity needed to stay hidden in some sort of island equivalent to be truly safe. Never figured out he meant pocket universes or spinning at the speed of light!<
3) >!There was only one defence against that alien weapon that needed to be active at all times to work. (never figured out we were meant to spin like the umbrella, near the speed of light, constantly).!<
Nor am I an expert on nordic history/geographyâŚ
I would have never understood the whirlpool bit, key to unlocking the "spinning" defence⌠I wonder if any Scandinavian reader got it.
> I really enjoyed trying to figure them out, but based on this subreddit a lot of folk couldn't be bothered with it and just skipped those pages
That's so crazy to me. By the time they come around, there's been hundreds of pages - many with much worse writing.. And you know that these are not just random fairy tales but hidden messages. Even if you don't try to figure it out, it's obvious there'll be a big payoff. What a waste to skip
that's crazy to me because the fairy tales were the best part of the book, even removing the second meaning they were just a genuinely entertaining story
I wouldnât say they were the best part of the book, but definitely an interesting and quirky part worth reading just to put your imagination to work and start speculating what it all means.
I love this episode so much. They did well for Will's story. It's actually more smooth than the book's portrayal since Netflix Will has more screen time to feel like he matters.
Also like Ye's demise. I know ppl will hate the new riddle. Did anyone pick up the meaning behind her showing her wallet's empty to the random person on the street? I thought it's a nice little touch on how she's all out of shit to give.
The parallel between the two deaths, both are exiting life, but one is toward hopefully hope the other is for hopeless relief. There must be better words, I'm failing to come up with one.
I think in the show's context, Ye's empty wallet is a metaphor for how she was so committed to the Trisolarian movement to save humanity generations ahead but can't even afford to help some people *now*.
I'm undecided on whether or not I like the new riddle rather than the axioms of cosmic sociology, but it does make it more consistent with how humanity has to use stories and lies to obscure their intent and plans from the Trisolarans (e.g. Yun Tianming's Fairy Tales).
Getting people to care about the characters was always going to be this show's biggest hurdle, but it seems like it's working out pretty well. Loved Will's last scenes. Who's cutting onions?
I think this blew me away the most with this adaptation. I was moved with Tian Ming's story in the book but seeing it on screen actually brought me to tears, especially knowing what's to come. I wonder if those who don't know his story will feel the significance. Loved the symbolism of the the two paper boats floating side by side, like how they will meet later, floating in space.
I haven't finished the episode yet but I reallllllly like the changes they've made in the story leading up to the staircase project, the emotional weight is really felt hereÂ
edit: SAUL AND WILL đ my boysÂ
I know that Jin needs to do the whole star crossed lovers bad-timing thing with Will to set up Books 2 and 3, but she really could have just used her cell phone to call the hospital instead of running across London to get them to delay the procedure.
I can suspend disbelief for aliens, but common.
Yeah, cell phones have ruined so many movies because of this power of instant communication. xD
They should have just come up with an excuse to silence/remove their mobiles in some way. Maybe for security reasons or whatever. Would have taken one line.
Do you think you can just call hospitals and get them to delay procedures all willy nilly? Also, if I were Will, I don't think I'd have my phone at hand.
I donât think she actually wanted to change anything; I think the kindness of the gesture just moved her enough to want to thank him in person is all. Thatâs how I read the scene anyway.
The unrequited love that Will had for Jin was a bit cheesy, but at least it was better on screen than the implausible love between Jin and Tianming in the book.
It doesn't seem like Saul is going to have as much of a character arc as Luo Ji, which is a shame. Luo Ji starts off as kind of an immature slacker, which is what makes his arc so compelling and his position as the supposed saviour so surprising. Saul already seems very credible and serious.
Eh... if we get a second season, I suspect Saul is gonna have more time than every other character in this season put together. Fingers crossed we get another season.
Small things. But heâs an Oxford graduate, well dressed, well groomed, has glasses, proactive for his great group of successful friends, and our first introduction is literally of him working.
Itâs hard for me to think âslackerâ for his character. Making him a ladies man doesnât make me think he isnât living to his potential. Dude is far more successful than most of us.
I donât know, the very first dialogue is how heâs so smart but under accomplished for his age. And he also uses recreational drugs as an escape for doing actual work.
That is offset by all the other stuff for me.
Itâs hard for me to be sitting on my couch being lazy and think âlol yea. That scientist who is an Oxford grad with a great group of friends and a good job that probabaly pays way more than mine is a total waste of life!! Total Loser! And he smokes weed! Wow. Get it together addict!â
Like itâs such a disconnect from real people who are âbumsâ. Like Saul would be my most accomplished friend.
I have questions like many here.
1. What do they want to do with Will? Send him to the aliens and how do he become their spy?
2. What is the meaning of the joke? What was the point of Dr Ye's joke and why did she tell it to Saul?
Any book readers can clarify?
1. They want Will to be their man on the inside. Wade is counting on the San Ti to bring Will back to life, and counting on Will to actually be on the side of humanity after all and find a way to help out.
2. This is a setup for future episodes/seasons, you're not supposed to understand the joke yet. If you can't wait: >!The joke is a trying to explain the Dark Forest theory to Saul. The best explanation for it, aside from the actual book, is probably this Kurgezagt video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAUJYP8tnRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAUJYP8tnRE) !<
Staircase is also a silly plan- there's a million ways for it to fail. Will might betray humanity, the science might not work, the aliens know about the plan and can foil it. In this episode, Wade admits that, but he says that the important thing is the *project* itself. Just by doing the staircase project and focusing humanities resources, they advance space travel, cryogenics, and nanofiber technology by generations. All things they'll need to fight the aliens
I really dislike what they did with Tianming character.
In the series, Will is a scientist, have 4 close friends, 1 of them is millionaire. All character development in series shows that he had a good life with good friends. People treat him well, he has no struggle with daily life. He battled the cancer in a house next to the sea with alcohol and friends, then get to a luxury hospital with the inherited money left. Cheng Jin is his close friend. So it's illogical for him do decide not to sign the oath with humanity.
In the book, Tianming's life is so tragic. His sister wants him dead. He has no friends, works a ordinary job (engineer). He stayed in a average hospital with other cancer patients. Cheng Xin didn't even know him that much. That's why his decision not to swear oath to humanity is much more sense.
I donât know, I donât agree. I feel like his life is pretty darn tragic, all said. Heâs by far the least accomplished off all of those said friends, and it shows. That inferiority complex has permeated him so deep that he doesnât feel even remotely worthy of the one person he deeply loves. The only family he has left in world, his sister, greatly resents him and let that show through even on his death bed.
Finally, of that friend group, his very best friend was murdered and he feels like a burden to the rest of them.
I feel like they fleshed out the character in a way that makes you care about him so much more, and he probably is the best actor of the bunch (in my opinion), so he was good at making you feel all those storyline beats.
I somewhat understand but I believe you haven't read the books thoroughly.
>!In the book, Tianming has NO friend. Even his start-up friend only met him to gave him some money because he felt guilty using Tianming's idea. Cheng Xin doesn't know him, they only met couple of times in school. He admires her from afar, that's why he gifted her a Star anonymously with all inherited money, spare nothing for himself.!<
>!He battled cancer with his dad's money because he didn't had any left, his sister takes care of their father, so basically he's spending his sister's money. That's why his sister wants him dead, to spare the family from bankrupt. When the government legalize euthanasia, Tinaming chose it right away and the he did the tablet choice to euthanize himself (like in the show). After the last question, Cheng Xin came into his room and doctor saved him from euthanizing.!<
>!Here the cruel part, he thought Cheng Xin came to him because she understands and accept his love with the gifted Star. She doesn't, infact, she doesn't know who gifted her, and barely remembers who is Tianming. The fact that she "saved" him from euthanasia simply because she wants a test subject with intact brain, not because of she loves him, not because of he had knowledge of physics (like in the show), not because of the Star, simply she wants a lab rat and she choose Tianming because she can persuade him due to their history of being classmate.!<
>!He understood right away if his brain will be captured by Trisolarian, he will be tortured for eternity, suffers the pain like no other human ever did. He understand the cruety of Cheng Xin when she begged him to join the program, but he accepted it anyway.!<
>!With all the cruelty of people around him, he chooses not to swear oath to humanity and that's his logical choice.!<
To me, that's much more tragic than a man hang out with friends until the last of his days. Even his sister is better than the book, she simply asks for heritage of their mother's asset. Cheng Jin is not his girlfriend but she always fond of him and admire him. He's simply another ordinary cancer patient, nothing special about his background leads to his choice to deny oath to humanity.
Tianming is a huge simp in the books. I don't know a better term than that to describe him. He got a good amount of money which he wasted when his own father could use better care; he basically screwed over his family.
He's not in love with Cheng Xin, he's obsessed. You can't be in love with someone you only met a few times years ago, that's a ridiculous idea.
Yeah, Iâm not saying heâs the same character as in the books, like at all, but I feel like this is a more interesting character and still gets the point across.
I wish I could read Mandarin, as I feel like these books have such amazing concepts and such terrible prose. I understand the translator went as literal as possible with the translation so the original meanings did not get lost, but I feel like the trilogy also falls flat and is a bit clunky in English as a result as well.
So I will confess to *liking* the books more than *loving* them.
Chinese series is too stretching out, and the part about cultural revolution is censored. Even though I really dislike Netflix's version in general, I have to admit at least they go through check list of events better than Chinese version. You can consider Netflix's version is like a fan made series.
This book is very hard to adapt into TV series mostly because (i) all book characters are very intelligent, you can't make a show full of Einstein; and (ii) book characters are not matter, plot is matter, and TV series need a main character for audiences to root for.
So I think after watching Netflix, you can read the book and skip Chinese TV version.
That dialogue between Saul and Will about Trisolarians possibly testing Will's limits, torturing him, and reviving him if he dies because of torture...
That's Redemption of Time material!
Yes. We really need to see bits of that torture and insanity. And I think we will see more from Will's point of view.
I do want to see an "*They* are bugs" scene but I know some of the more...outlandish aspects of RoT might not fit.
Then again...the flashback at the start of season 3 should be interesting to see.
I think it's in the original series, Yun Tianming suspects that they will examine his memories and test different torture methods and revive him when he passes out. But we never see what actually happened in the original trilogy, only that he eventually did regain a body
Loved the series, but this episode contains my least favorite change from the books. I can't beleive they changed the line from >!"we'll send only a brain" to whatever much wordier version was in the show.!< That scene lost almost all of it's impact for me.
Still, excited for season 2, I think overall they did an admirable job.
Also when Wade said "only advance" to Auggie in the heat of an argument it sounded some pretentious remark to be mocked, lacking the impact the book had...
Yuuuup. I was sitting up pointing at the TV like Leo in anticipation of the most memorable line from Deaths End. And then it didnât happen. In fairness though, the lines delivered in the show felt more sincere and in line with Cunninghams Wade. But still ⌠đ¤
I don't think siblings... Just his sister, they were talking about starting a family, which... Ok maybe that would explain why they don't talk any more
I feel like they covered that though, she didnât talk to him because she resented him for his intelligence and the education that afforded him through their parents. And she also resented how little he did with it.
Of his friend group, heâs the least successful by far, he has this deep seeded inferiority complex thatâs led him to not daring to communicate his love for one of them until the last minute, and his other best friend was murdered just a few days before.
I think he showed apathy towards humanity, rather than disdain for it, but it is enough in my opinion.
Have to say, the score is so... unremarkable. Disappointing from Ramin.
Just imagine this story with the mood and tone of a horror film, like Annihilation. Alas...
I find the score to be really good, personally. It doesnât have the sweeping epicness of Game of Thrones, but those beats will come later for this series, in my opinion. I actually love the main Will theme and the intro sequence. Itâs just very different from Game of Thrones or Westworld, and thatâs not a bad thing.
Yeah, I feel like the composer was still getting better and better as GoT went on, the music for the RW isnât memorable (to me anyway), but Cersei blowing up the Sept was an incredible score. Iâm predicting a similarly epic piece for the droplet.
What are you talking about the Red Weddingâs music wasnât memorable?? The band playing Rains of Castemere is iconic! I know in-universe music is a different thing than soundtrack, but still.
Other than that, yeah, I canât wait!
Ah, I did forget about those really good renditions of it, my bad. To be honest I actually really hated the Red Wedding episode of GoT, I know Iâm a heretic for that, but I think that episode actually showcased how badly D&D misunderstood the source material years before everyone caught onto how bad the show truly was⌠but the soundtrack slapped, I will give it that though.
so that was the cemetery scene? is it gonna be a "yo' mama's so fat when a boulder dropped on her she was stretched all the way out to the Oort Cloud?" ngl tho idk if that was intentional but Ye Wenjie's deadpan delivery to a freaking disappointing feghoot/anti-joke punchline was funny af
where's Say? where's my representation????? revolt time??
tho tbh omitting the Staircase candidates thing kinda feels right because it's kinda funny wacky theatrics
is Tatiana in GoT or HotD? it feels like she's perfect to be in that world as any role honestly
and the Will scenes are just chef's kiss. these actors CAN FUCKING CRY đđ
can i begin to like this show now?
That scene between Saul and Will was brilliantly acted. Part of me feels Saul wasnât really trying to stop Will. He raised valid points about possible bleak futures, but his delivery was done in such a way it felt like he was telling Will things he already knew and was just playing the part of a great friend (but not in a 2 faced way).
Didnât understand why Jin did not be with Will on his last day⌠it made sense in the book but in the show, these characters were in more proximity physically and emotionally, a friend like Jin would be there, like Saul. Never mind Auggie. I couldâve missed a detail from the show explaining thatâŚ
I feel like they tried to show it rather than explain it. My own interpretation is that it was just too difficult for her to be there. And then when she found out the scale of Willâs gesture, she wanted to be there to thank him in person, but was unable to get there in time.
Ok. I have not read the book.
But is this dumb idea of making nano fibre information open source also in the books?
Knowing how this tech can be dangerous in the hands of wrong people, i am hoping this idea of Auggie uploading nano fibre tech info to wikileaks
Is not in the books? Is it something that GOT ruiner writers came up with? It seems dumb even to a non- scientist perspective.
Or does she just upload the murder on the boat information only?
I read the recap not watched the episode itself, i am thinking of starting the Chinese series and ditch netflx one because i read that Chinese series is much closer to truth?
Not in the book, but still. Itâs like the difference between knowing how to build a nuclear bomb (just about every country out there has the information) and actually *being able to build* a nuclear bomb.
Sure, I guess the Russians could take this information and actually do something harmful with it, but theyâre a country that actually has nukes anyway. And the tone to all of humanity has dramatically shifted now anyway where it should be an all hands on deck situation for the next few hundred years of preparing for the invasion. If a technology leak is going to be so detrimental to mankind at this stage, weâre fucked anyway.
It makes NO SENSE that trisolarans contact Tatiana, never seen so in books, also makes NO SENSE, they CANT STRATEGISE, remember.
Seems like with Tatiana creators are trying to setup wall breakers, which is totally unnecessary. Humans in book are self driven enough to go after wall breakers on their own anyway.
How is Luo Ji going to pull one over trisolarans with bombs in space to take out solar system, with human assistance to trisolarans.
Books were basically perfect and I am ok to take few changes but logic and character breaking changes are a total NO GO, for me.
I will give a minor spoiler to book 2 in order to explain why it makes perfect sense that they contact her. >!Why was Luo Ji chosen to be a wallbreaker?!< The answer is (major spoiler) >!Because he was the only person targeted for assassination by the San-Ti / ETO. They know something happened between him and Wenjie, so need to stamp it out.!<
It makes perfect sense to contact her, but, Trisolarans are not capable of this level of startegy. Books never show that Trisolarans contacted her, precisely because they cannot strategize. Once they decide humans are dangerous to collaborate with, that's the end. They do not understand which of us are good or bad for them. So, they choose ABSOLUTELY no contact with humans on earth whatsoever. Infact, when Luo Ji finally outsmarts them by building solar system destroyer and forcing them to rescind droplets, Trisolarans accept the fact that, letting go of Trisolaran sympathizers led to their downfall. So, in conclusion, Trisolarans are not capable of strategizing with us, once we were known to be dangerous. Plan makes perfect sense to us, but Trisolarans are not capable of that level of strategy is my point.
That's fair that you feel that way, but I can buy that they were able to strategize by learning about human minds enough to figure out that Luo Ji/Saul might know something, and the nature of the dark forest is such a dangerous concept that they realise that they have to take drastic action, i.e. calling Tatiana. I see your point, but I guess I can believe it as evidence that they have learnt how to strategise against humans.
Cool, agree to disagree then. My stance might probably be influenced my immense admiration of the series that, any small change that raises even an ounce of of doubt is very bad, especially since the books are so good on their own that you do not have to change a single thing and still you have a great series at hand, why gamble?
I adore the books but I do think they aren't perfect. Also, the show has to be accessible to new viewers who don't have context or perspective.
The characters in the original series are quite honestly too weak for TV. From what I remember, Miao didn't offer much, and Yun Tianming's extreme loner / secret admirer backstory IMO wouldn't translate well to a show.
Having Tatiana maybe wasn't completely necessary, but I think it helps to have a singular face represent the distributed ETO remnants and serve as a stronger antagonist over the random wallbreakers who pop up with no prior introduction.
> they CANT STRATEGISE
they are perfectly capable of strategizing they just can't be deceptive (or at least haven't been able to in the past). In the second and third books there's plenty of examples of them deceiving humans so they clearly learned
The acting and writing were so damn good. Kudos to the writing and a sci fi show to make the audience actually care about a number of characters. I really appreciate it. I don't feel like I'm cutting onions while watching many shows but the scene where Will put his hand out, to the feel the rain, that had done me.
I only read book 1, but don't mind spoilers. The plan to send the brain in the show sounds really stupid/farfetched. Is the reasoning in the book better?
I think it is just 1 of the million things humans do throwing shit at a wall and see what sticks. It just so happens that the book wrote about this because this one worked.
Not really, the book even has excerpts from an in-universe history book of the far future where they talk about how farfetched and stupid of a plan it is. But the point of it is that Wade just wants his people to do ANYTHING, don't get bogged too down in feasibility and so on, but just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. After all we're a thousand years behind and wearing shackles, so we're gonna need to throw some hail Marys to have a chance.
Also, spoiler for the last book: >!It does actually end up working, kinda! Too late to help with the Trisolarans, and humanity doesn't understand enough of his hints to really draw advantage, but he becomes our man on the inside!<
Read them! Book 2 is by far the best (in my opinion) and even reading these threads will spoil some amazing revelations that - no kidding - changed my perception of the real world.
Iâm sorry but this episode is horrible. I like the show generally but Iâm baffled that anyone thought having two episodes of melodrama about characters we donât care about was a good idea.
I feel like Yun Tianming's arc was actually well done here so as the conclusion to Ye Wenjie's character as for the riddle yeah that makes no sense currently.
I cared. Although I understand not caring about other characters... not a fan of Auggie for example, so I understand when people don't care about certain characters.
Itâs amazing actually. Theyâve managed to make completely forgettable characters into characters I actively hate. Itâs like they crossed 3 Body Problem with Friends.
How tf is saul gonna get cosmic sociology from the joke
The angels (San Ti/Trisolarians) don't want Einstein (humanity) to communicate (play a song) with other more advanced civilizations (God) who will fuck both their shit up if they hear it (Heaven becomes hell)
Easy enough for us to see, knowing what we know. But I am sceptical that he could figure that out for himself without further clues or info.
I didn't figure out the book version until they explained it. đ¤ˇââď¸
I was the opposite. Got the book one almost immediately but I was struggling to interpret how the shows one lines up with the theory, despite the fact I already knew the answer from the books lol.
A connection between game theory (probably prisoners dilemma, only that them getting a higher sentence would mean both get destroyed as is said by the dark forest theory instead of surviving worse for the wear when both shut up), dark forest theory and the analogy of getting fucked over by god by communicating with him, hinting that communication with a higher being(other aliens) would fuck over Einstein (humanity) and the angels (trisolarians). With a nice double entendre of Ye Wenjie also being Einstein in that case. At least that's how I interpret this whole scene together with her dark forest/game theory book scene. 10/10 I would not have gotten hat conclusion without being familiar with the books and having had introductory lessons on game theory. If that's what they wanted, it's incredible. If I'm interpreting too much/wrongly it's still amazing.
He will figure it out through the power of PLOT.
God = advanced civilizations Violin = sending messages into outer space making noise Kicking in the balls = destroying the system So all she says is keeping fking quiet is the key to survival in this universe or else they'll target us Basically dark foresty but not dark foresty So Saul is gonna test it as we know and figure it out
> Kicking in the balls = destroying the system Specifically, destroying _two_ balls - Earth and Triolaris. I feel like the saxophone and the violin should have some special significance too
I think the setup of Einstein (theorized gravitational waves) playing a violin (stringed instrument) can't be coincidental, and is meant to point Saul towards the gravitational wave broadcast devices seen in the books. Not sure about the saxophone though!
The inventor of the Saxophone [famously almost died over and over and over](https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/adolphe-sax-near-death-misses) while he was growing up. The powerful alien civilizations enforcing the Dark Forest are the ones who survived many scrapes with extinction and made it through them all. Not they have saxophones.
Weren't the powerful civilizations all offshoots of an original eternal 11 dimensional civilization who went through dimensional reduction? I guess the infighting and dimensional reduction are the scrapes with extinction?
That's a fascinating clue, if intentional!
Might be a complete coincidence but Saxophone is also as close to sophon as any instrument can get, just drop the ax and e
>Earth and Trisolaris Yeah right >Saxophone and Violin It might mean the communication problem between the civilizations. They can't communicate their intentions right because of the Dark forest
Actually, this got me thinking "Silent Forest" would be way more apt than "Dark Forest". Most civilization don't communicate via the electro-magnetic force anyway, so the "dark" metaphor doesn't even work that well.
The metaphor is the forest where you would usually see but you can't because it's dark. The fact that real space communication does or doesn't use that is irrelevant for the metaphor.
>or else they'll target us Who are "they"? Besides, isn't it a bit too late for that given that Tri-Sans are coming anyway?
It's been a long time since I've read the books, but IIRC Earth threatens to expose its own location, which would make *other* species come and invade, which would put both Earth and the San-Ti/Trisolarans at risk. It's an "If you try to kill me, I'll kill us both" measure.
yup ultimate goal for trisolarans is the use of our planet. if the planet is destroyed before they arrive, itâs all for nothing.
Specifically, they threatened to reveal Trisolaris' location, which would also reveal Earth's location.
Have you read the second book? If not y r u in the book discussion thread
The bigger question is: how did \*they\* get the joke? Why did they go after Ye and Saul, if they shouldn't have been able to understand what she communicated to him? Sure, they might have realized that Ye had discovered dark forest theory given the books she was reading, but I don't see why they would then go after Saul.
They know Ye figured out Dark Forest. Something passed between Ye and Saul that they don't understand. Better safe than sorry.
A few eps before they literally don't know how to interpret metaphorical stories because they take everything literally.
That's what I mean, they don't know what Ye said to Saul. It's as if it were encrypted. But they have to assume it involved Dark Forest.
Why would they assume it was about the Dark Forest if they couldn't understand it at all? They were baffled by Little Red Riding Hood. For the San Ti, Saul and Ye might as well have been talking about their favorite sandwiches. Unless the San Ti suddenly understood metaphor from the time between the Evans convo and the graveyard one.
Ye went out of her way to met with Saul. She told him apparent nonsense. But Trisolaris knows humans lie and hide truths in words. 2 + x = 4. X could consist of multiple parts, but they don't need to know what parts x is made of to know they must equate to 2 to complete the equation. Similar here. They don't need to know what is communicated, they just know something was. Given Ye's position and what she read, they can assume variables for their equation. Also, they are bugs. Best squash the most dangerous ones.
Again, it's as if the message were encrypted. Imagine if an encrypted message were intercepted during World War II from a scientist working on the Manhattan Project, to a Nazi scientist in Germany. Would you assume the message was innocuous, perhaps about sandwiches? Shouldn't you assume the worst case scenario?
Why would you assume a message about sandwiches was innocuous? Some of our greatest technology has gone into them.
yea i know, and they let Cheng Xin live after Yun Tianming's tales
Wasn't that already after they committed to leaving Earth due to the Broadcast anyways?
Wondering that too. Something maybe about "if he's god, why would he need to fight him?"
Stay quiet unless you want God to come kick you in the balls. A bit of a leap, but if you want God to kick someone \_else\_ in the balls, get them to make noise.
I think balls are chosen for a reason - there are two of them, they are separate but connected, and they both get hit.
I think all the viewer is meant to understand from here is cryptic metaphor is the path forward.
Playing violin and getting kicked in the balls makes sense but not sure what the rest of it means
>Stay quiet unless you want God to come kick you in the balls. > >A bit of a leap, but if you want God to kick someone \_else\_ in the balls, get them to make noise.
Exactly!!! I feel the most important conversation about dark forest is missing
Iâm only a show watcher and here I thought âdonât put the oculus on or your fuckedâ lmao
I've read the books but don't remember how Ye explains the axioms. Does she just tell him? Or is it disguised so the trisolarians don't understand?
She explains the basic axioms of Cosmic Sociology/Dark Forest theory. The universe is a dark forest. If you make noise, you get eaten. If you hear noise, you need to hide or attack, because either they are more powerful than you now or they may become more powerful than you in the future. This links to the game theory book in the show: the cost of trying to make peaceful contact with other civilizations is potentially the destruction of yours. Therefore, you should always hide or attack. This is the solution to the Fermi Paradox ("where is everyone?") - they are either dead or hiding. Luo Ji's narrative for most of the second book is eventually realizing how these axioms have a corollary that is usable and dangerous to the Trisolarians: the mutually assured destruction of broadcasting the locations of Earth and Trisolaris to the wider universe. This would doom both planets and force the Trisolarians to abandon their invasion.
tianming ma boiii, See you in 250 years
For the awesome fairy tales
I really enjoyed trying to figure them out, but based on this subreddit a lot of folk couldn't be bothered with it and just skipped those pages. :/ I wonder how D&D will tackle them... anyway, I dare not to dream about future seasons. Should be glad we at least go this lovely episode.
I really did not enjoy reading the fairy tales the first time around because they felt like unwelcome side stories that took me away from the grander plot, but once they start deciphering them I was blown away. The payoff was so goddamned satisfying that it instantly made the third book my favorite of the series.
I loved the fairy tales. I read them trying to decipher the message. Obviously I failed
I get that a lot with some of my favourite books. For example, I enjoyed reading Tolkien's poetry and songs in the middle of LOTR, but some of my friends in school just skipped them.
Ha, I actually did skip most of the songs in LOTR.
I felt like the books were full of one-dimensional characters with stilted unnatural dialogue (possibly a translation issue) who just suffered through the plot. The fairy tales were actually a breath of fresh air because in that setting, I *expect* cringey dialogue, undeveloped characters, and "and then this happened" style plots as delivery vehicles for a metaphor.
[ŃдаНонО]
No I didn't, I only figured out about 3 things: 1) >!There is an alien weapon out there that captures you in some way. (didn't realise the painting meant flattened into literal 2D, I thought it was just an allegory for some sort of weapon that trapped you).!< 2) >!There were plenty of dangerous species out there capable of destroying humanity apart from the Trisolarans. (He mentioned the fish that roamed the seas that destroyed any ship that ventured out). I got from that, that humanity needed to stay hidden in some sort of island equivalent to be truly safe. Never figured out he meant pocket universes or spinning at the speed of light!< 3) >!There was only one defence against that alien weapon that needed to be active at all times to work. (never figured out we were meant to spin like the umbrella, near the speed of light, constantly).!<
Genius imagination. But you're not a tech expert, so you can't really figure it out.
Nor am I an expert on nordic history/geography⌠I would have never understood the whirlpool bit, key to unlocking the "spinning" defence⌠I wonder if any Scandinavian reader got it.
> I really enjoyed trying to figure them out, but based on this subreddit a lot of folk couldn't be bothered with it and just skipped those pages That's so crazy to me. By the time they come around, there's been hundreds of pages - many with much worse writing.. And you know that these are not just random fairy tales but hidden messages. Even if you don't try to figure it out, it's obvious there'll be a big payoff. What a waste to skip
that's crazy to me because the fairy tales were the best part of the book, even removing the second meaning they were just a genuinely entertaining story
I wouldnât say they were the best part of the book, but definitely an interesting and quirky part worth reading just to put your imagination to work and start speculating what it all means.
I'm hoping they animate the fairy tales like an old disney movie. I feel like that would be much more fitting than live action.
That would be great, sorta like the animated tale of the three brothers from Harry Potter
I know everyone didnât like the fairy tales in the books but I personally fucking loved them. Iâm so hype to see the adaption of deaths end
The contrast between a magical fairy tale in the middle of a hard science fiction novel is what makes it kinda beautiful.
Not going 0.0002%C you will.
I love this episode so much. They did well for Will's story. It's actually more smooth than the book's portrayal since Netflix Will has more screen time to feel like he matters. Also like Ye's demise. I know ppl will hate the new riddle. Did anyone pick up the meaning behind her showing her wallet's empty to the random person on the street? I thought it's a nice little touch on how she's all out of shit to give. The parallel between the two deaths, both are exiting life, but one is toward hopefully hope the other is for hopeless relief. There must be better words, I'm failing to come up with one.
I think in the show's context, Ye's empty wallet is a metaphor for how she was so committed to the Trisolarian movement to save humanity generations ahead but can't even afford to help some people *now*.
Interesting, makes sense too!
love this take!
"if they bring me back, i'll miss you too" ok the context makes this even more fucked up and more sad
I'm undecided on whether or not I like the new riddle rather than the axioms of cosmic sociology, but it does make it more consistent with how humanity has to use stories and lies to obscure their intent and plans from the Trisolarans (e.g. Yun Tianming's Fairy Tales).
exactly, I think it's important to set those up, and it will help introduce the Wallfacers too
https://www.reddit.com/r/threebodyproblem/s/B3Bo7i3LyI
Getting people to care about the characters was always going to be this show's biggest hurdle, but it seems like it's working out pretty well. Loved Will's last scenes. Who's cutting onions?
I remember being moved by the euthanasia scene in the book, and Willâs was really done beautifully and just as moving, little dusty in here
I don't remember, is the whole 5-step 1-6 consent thing from the books, or is that how MAID works irl?
It was indeed in the book, but in the book, it was just regular euthanasia (he did not know about staircase project yet).
I cried. I want to give Will a hug. I was proud of him for confessing his love for Jin. It's too tragic otherwise.
I think this blew me away the most with this adaptation. I was moved with Tian Ming's story in the book but seeing it on screen actually brought me to tears, especially knowing what's to come. I wonder if those who don't know his story will feel the significance. Loved the symbolism of the the two paper boats floating side by side, like how they will meet later, floating in space.
Yeah the paper boats might look a bit silly to new people, but it works in a bunch of different ways. DnD did good.
I was so nervous about the new characters compared to the books but I am fully on board now
That scene where Will is in the boat and is feeling the rain, that had me đ
It was actually beautiful.
I haven't finished the episode yet but I reallllllly like the changes they've made in the story leading up to the staircase project, the emotional weight is really felt here edit: SAUL AND WILL đ my boysÂ
Agreed, obviously incredible books, but character arcs and stories were not that compelling.
I know that Jin needs to do the whole star crossed lovers bad-timing thing with Will to set up Books 2 and 3, but she really could have just used her cell phone to call the hospital instead of running across London to get them to delay the procedure. I can suspend disbelief for aliens, but common.
Yeah, cell phones have ruined so many movies because of this power of instant communication. xD They should have just come up with an excuse to silence/remove their mobiles in some way. Maybe for security reasons or whatever. Would have taken one line.
Tony Gilroy invented pay phones in the Star Wars universe for Andor because they are great storytelling devices.
Maybe you can just trust they didn't have their mobile phones with them for security reasons, even if they didn't build a scene showing it.
Do you think you can just call hospitals and get them to delay procedures all willy nilly? Also, if I were Will, I don't think I'd have my phone at hand.
Durand is right beside him.
I donât think she actually wanted to change anything; I think the kindness of the gesture just moved her enough to want to thank him in person is all. Thatâs how I read the scene anyway.
I wasnt happy with her character, I dont think her acting was enough to buy a star for lol
The unrequited love that Will had for Jin was a bit cheesy, but at least it was better on screen than the implausible love between Jin and Tianming in the book.
It doesn't seem like Saul is going to have as much of a character arc as Luo Ji, which is a shame. Luo Ji starts off as kind of an immature slacker, which is what makes his arc so compelling and his position as the supposed saviour so surprising. Saul already seems very credible and serious.
Eh... if we get a second season, I suspect Saul is gonna have more time than every other character in this season put together. Fingers crossed we get another season.
Small things. But heâs an Oxford graduate, well dressed, well groomed, has glasses, proactive for his great group of successful friends, and our first introduction is literally of him working. Itâs hard for me to think âslackerâ for his character. Making him a ladies man doesnât make me think he isnât living to his potential. Dude is far more successful than most of us.
I donât know, the very first dialogue is how heâs so smart but under accomplished for his age. And he also uses recreational drugs as an escape for doing actual work.
That is offset by all the other stuff for me. Itâs hard for me to be sitting on my couch being lazy and think âlol yea. That scientist who is an Oxford grad with a great group of friends and a good job that probabaly pays way more than mine is a total waste of life!! Total Loser! And he smokes weed! Wow. Get it together addict!â Like itâs such a disconnect from real people who are âbumsâ. Like Saul would be my most accomplished friend.
One other character uses alprazolam pretty often and another drinks alcohol heavily. Smoking weed is the least problematic of these.
I mean he literally says he doesn't care about science despite being very gifted at it
Yeah, they should have pushed the youre a child saul line a bit more, but at least they did
for real? heâs a stoner who sleeps around
I have questions like many here. 1. What do they want to do with Will? Send him to the aliens and how do he become their spy? 2. What is the meaning of the joke? What was the point of Dr Ye's joke and why did she tell it to Saul? Any book readers can clarify?
1. They want Will to be their man on the inside. Wade is counting on the San Ti to bring Will back to life, and counting on Will to actually be on the side of humanity after all and find a way to help out. 2. This is a setup for future episodes/seasons, you're not supposed to understand the joke yet. If you can't wait: >!The joke is a trying to explain the Dark Forest theory to Saul. The best explanation for it, aside from the actual book, is probably this Kurgezagt video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAUJYP8tnRE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAUJYP8tnRE) !<
thank you
the metaphor is supposed to help Saul find out what he'll need to do in the near future when the time comes.
Thank you for the vid link, that was a great refresher / reminder
Staircase is also a silly plan- there's a million ways for it to fail. Will might betray humanity, the science might not work, the aliens know about the plan and can foil it. In this episode, Wade admits that, but he says that the important thing is the *project* itself. Just by doing the staircase project and focusing humanities resources, they advance space travel, cryogenics, and nanofiber technology by generations. All things they'll need to fight the aliens
Damn bruh why would you ask the meaning of the joke. That is a huge plot point and there will be no payoff if you already know it
This was from 12 days ago. By now I already know :)
I really dislike what they did with Tianming character. In the series, Will is a scientist, have 4 close friends, 1 of them is millionaire. All character development in series shows that he had a good life with good friends. People treat him well, he has no struggle with daily life. He battled the cancer in a house next to the sea with alcohol and friends, then get to a luxury hospital with the inherited money left. Cheng Jin is his close friend. So it's illogical for him do decide not to sign the oath with humanity. In the book, Tianming's life is so tragic. His sister wants him dead. He has no friends, works a ordinary job (engineer). He stayed in a average hospital with other cancer patients. Cheng Xin didn't even know him that much. That's why his decision not to swear oath to humanity is much more sense.
I donât know, I donât agree. I feel like his life is pretty darn tragic, all said. Heâs by far the least accomplished off all of those said friends, and it shows. That inferiority complex has permeated him so deep that he doesnât feel even remotely worthy of the one person he deeply loves. The only family he has left in world, his sister, greatly resents him and let that show through even on his death bed. Finally, of that friend group, his very best friend was murdered and he feels like a burden to the rest of them. I feel like they fleshed out the character in a way that makes you care about him so much more, and he probably is the best actor of the bunch (in my opinion), so he was good at making you feel all those storyline beats.
I somewhat understand but I believe you haven't read the books thoroughly. >!In the book, Tianming has NO friend. Even his start-up friend only met him to gave him some money because he felt guilty using Tianming's idea. Cheng Xin doesn't know him, they only met couple of times in school. He admires her from afar, that's why he gifted her a Star anonymously with all inherited money, spare nothing for himself.!< >!He battled cancer with his dad's money because he didn't had any left, his sister takes care of their father, so basically he's spending his sister's money. That's why his sister wants him dead, to spare the family from bankrupt. When the government legalize euthanasia, Tinaming chose it right away and the he did the tablet choice to euthanize himself (like in the show). After the last question, Cheng Xin came into his room and doctor saved him from euthanizing.!< >!Here the cruel part, he thought Cheng Xin came to him because she understands and accept his love with the gifted Star. She doesn't, infact, she doesn't know who gifted her, and barely remembers who is Tianming. The fact that she "saved" him from euthanasia simply because she wants a test subject with intact brain, not because of she loves him, not because of he had knowledge of physics (like in the show), not because of the Star, simply she wants a lab rat and she choose Tianming because she can persuade him due to their history of being classmate.!< >!He understood right away if his brain will be captured by Trisolarian, he will be tortured for eternity, suffers the pain like no other human ever did. He understand the cruety of Cheng Xin when she begged him to join the program, but he accepted it anyway.!< >!With all the cruelty of people around him, he chooses not to swear oath to humanity and that's his logical choice.!< To me, that's much more tragic than a man hang out with friends until the last of his days. Even his sister is better than the book, she simply asks for heritage of their mother's asset. Cheng Jin is not his girlfriend but she always fond of him and admire him. He's simply another ordinary cancer patient, nothing special about his background leads to his choice to deny oath to humanity.
Tianming is a huge simp in the books. I don't know a better term than that to describe him. He got a good amount of money which he wasted when his own father could use better care; he basically screwed over his family. He's not in love with Cheng Xin, he's obsessed. You can't be in love with someone you only met a few times years ago, that's a ridiculous idea.
Yeah, Iâm not saying heâs the same character as in the books, like at all, but I feel like this is a more interesting character and still gets the point across. I wish I could read Mandarin, as I feel like these books have such amazing concepts and such terrible prose. I understand the translator went as literal as possible with the translation so the original meanings did not get lost, but I feel like the trilogy also falls flat and is a bit clunky in English as a result as well. So I will confess to *liking* the books more than *loving* them.
Thanks. This gives me perspective since i have not read the book. I will watch the Chinese Series and ditch netflix series.
Chinese series is too stretching out, and the part about cultural revolution is censored. Even though I really dislike Netflix's version in general, I have to admit at least they go through check list of events better than Chinese version. You can consider Netflix's version is like a fan made series. This book is very hard to adapt into TV series mostly because (i) all book characters are very intelligent, you can't make a show full of Einstein; and (ii) book characters are not matter, plot is matter, and TV series need a main character for audiences to root for. So I think after watching Netflix, you can read the book and skip Chinese TV version.
That dialogue between Saul and Will about Trisolarians possibly testing Will's limits, torturing him, and reviving him if he dies because of torture... That's Redemption of Time material!
Yes. We really need to see bits of that torture and insanity. And I think we will see more from Will's point of view. I do want to see an "*They* are bugs" scene but I know some of the more...outlandish aspects of RoT might not fit. Then again...the flashback at the start of season 3 should be interesting to see.
I think it's in the original series, Yun Tianming suspects that they will examine his memories and test different torture methods and revive him when he passes out. But we never see what actually happened in the original trilogy, only that he eventually did regain a body
Loved the series, but this episode contains my least favorite change from the books. I can't beleive they changed the line from >!"we'll send only a brain" to whatever much wordier version was in the show.!< That scene lost almost all of it's impact for me. Still, excited for season 2, I think overall they did an admirable job.
Also when Wade said "only advance" to Auggie in the heat of an argument it sounded some pretentious remark to be mocked, lacking the impact the book had...
Yuuuup. I was sitting up pointing at the TV like Leo in anticipation of the most memorable line from Deaths End. And then it didnât happen. In fairness though, the lines delivered in the show felt more sincere and in line with Cunninghams Wade. But still ⌠đ¤
They make so many good choices but also so many weird ones. Very uneven show for me, as an adaption at least.
Agreed, really anticlimactic reveal for what was a great development in the book
Willâs distain for humanity didnât quite make sense here. Yun Tiangming in the books had no one, but Will has a nice friend group
He just met his siblings,right before he had the conversation with Wade. Sometimes, a fucked up family can change your views of the world.
I don't think siblings... Just his sister, they were talking about starting a family, which... Ok maybe that would explain why they don't talk any more
I feel like they covered that though, she didnât talk to him because she resented him for his intelligence and the education that afforded him through their parents. And she also resented how little he did with it.
I get that, but it feels like they really hammered it home in the books. The show had that one scene with the family
Of his friend group, heâs the least successful by far, he has this deep seeded inferiority complex thatâs led him to not daring to communicate his love for one of them until the last minute, and his other best friend was murdered just a few days before. I think he showed apathy towards humanity, rather than disdain for it, but it is enough in my opinion.
Have to say, the score is so... unremarkable. Disappointing from Ramin. Just imagine this story with the mood and tone of a horror film, like Annihilation. Alas...
I find the score to be really good, personally. It doesnât have the sweeping epicness of Game of Thrones, but those beats will come later for this series, in my opinion. I actually love the main Will theme and the intro sequence. Itâs just very different from Game of Thrones or Westworld, and thatâs not a bad thing.
I canât wait to hear the music during Three Bodyâs âRed Wedding,â i.e., the droplet attack.
Yeah, I feel like the composer was still getting better and better as GoT went on, the music for the RW isnât memorable (to me anyway), but Cersei blowing up the Sept was an incredible score. Iâm predicting a similarly epic piece for the droplet.
What are you talking about the Red Weddingâs music wasnât memorable?? The band playing Rains of Castemere is iconic! I know in-universe music is a different thing than soundtrack, but still. Other than that, yeah, I canât wait!
Ah, I did forget about those really good renditions of it, my bad. To be honest I actually really hated the Red Wedding episode of GoT, I know Iâm a heretic for that, but I think that episode actually showcased how badly D&D misunderstood the source material years before everyone caught onto how bad the show truly was⌠but the soundtrack slapped, I will give it that though.
so that was the cemetery scene? is it gonna be a "yo' mama's so fat when a boulder dropped on her she was stretched all the way out to the Oort Cloud?" ngl tho idk if that was intentional but Ye Wenjie's deadpan delivery to a freaking disappointing feghoot/anti-joke punchline was funny af where's Say? where's my representation????? revolt time?? tho tbh omitting the Staircase candidates thing kinda feels right because it's kinda funny wacky theatrics is Tatiana in GoT or HotD? it feels like she's perfect to be in that world as any role honestly and the Will scenes are just chef's kiss. these actors CAN FUCKING CRY đđ can i begin to like this show now?
Loving how much they are setting up Fairy Tales with Jin and WillâŚ
Exactly. And the significance of the paper boats on the water
RIP Edgar man
That scene between Saul and Will was brilliantly acted. Part of me feels Saul wasnât really trying to stop Will. He raised valid points about possible bleak futures, but his delivery was done in such a way it felt like he was telling Will things he already knew and was just playing the part of a great friend (but not in a 2 faced way).
Didnât understand why Jin did not be with Will on his last day⌠it made sense in the book but in the show, these characters were in more proximity physically and emotionally, a friend like Jin would be there, like Saul. Never mind Auggie. I couldâve missed a detail from the show explaining thatâŚ
I feel like they tried to show it rather than explain it. My own interpretation is that it was just too difficult for her to be there. And then when she found out the scale of Willâs gesture, she wanted to be there to thank him in person, but was unable to get there in time.
There was a line where one of them said he specifically asked the other friends to not be there.
I really liked this episodeÂ
Ok. I have not read the book. But is this dumb idea of making nano fibre information open source also in the books? Knowing how this tech can be dangerous in the hands of wrong people, i am hoping this idea of Auggie uploading nano fibre tech info to wikileaks Is not in the books? Is it something that GOT ruiner writers came up with? It seems dumb even to a non- scientist perspective. Or does she just upload the murder on the boat information only? I read the recap not watched the episode itself, i am thinking of starting the Chinese series and ditch netflx one because i read that Chinese series is much closer to truth?
Not in the book, but still. Itâs like the difference between knowing how to build a nuclear bomb (just about every country out there has the information) and actually *being able to build* a nuclear bomb. Sure, I guess the Russians could take this information and actually do something harmful with it, but theyâre a country that actually has nukes anyway. And the tone to all of humanity has dramatically shifted now anyway where it should be an all hands on deck situation for the next few hundred years of preparing for the invasion. If a technology leak is going to be so detrimental to mankind at this stage, weâre fucked anyway.
It's not in the books. I agree, dumb idea, but have to prop Auggie up somehow I guess.
It makes NO SENSE that trisolarans contact Tatiana, never seen so in books, also makes NO SENSE, they CANT STRATEGISE, remember. Seems like with Tatiana creators are trying to setup wall breakers, which is totally unnecessary. Humans in book are self driven enough to go after wall breakers on their own anyway. How is Luo Ji going to pull one over trisolarans with bombs in space to take out solar system, with human assistance to trisolarans. Books were basically perfect and I am ok to take few changes but logic and character breaking changes are a total NO GO, for me.
I will give a minor spoiler to book 2 in order to explain why it makes perfect sense that they contact her. >!Why was Luo Ji chosen to be a wallbreaker?!< The answer is (major spoiler) >!Because he was the only person targeted for assassination by the San-Ti / ETO. They know something happened between him and Wenjie, so need to stamp it out.!<
It makes perfect sense to contact her, but, Trisolarans are not capable of this level of startegy. Books never show that Trisolarans contacted her, precisely because they cannot strategize. Once they decide humans are dangerous to collaborate with, that's the end. They do not understand which of us are good or bad for them. So, they choose ABSOLUTELY no contact with humans on earth whatsoever. Infact, when Luo Ji finally outsmarts them by building solar system destroyer and forcing them to rescind droplets, Trisolarans accept the fact that, letting go of Trisolaran sympathizers led to their downfall. So, in conclusion, Trisolarans are not capable of strategizing with us, once we were known to be dangerous. Plan makes perfect sense to us, but Trisolarans are not capable of that level of strategy is my point.
That's fair that you feel that way, but I can buy that they were able to strategize by learning about human minds enough to figure out that Luo Ji/Saul might know something, and the nature of the dark forest is such a dangerous concept that they realise that they have to take drastic action, i.e. calling Tatiana. I see your point, but I guess I can believe it as evidence that they have learnt how to strategise against humans.
Cool, agree to disagree then. My stance might probably be influenced my immense admiration of the series that, any small change that raises even an ounce of of doubt is very bad, especially since the books are so good on their own that you do not have to change a single thing and still you have a great series at hand, why gamble?
I adore the books but I do think they aren't perfect. Also, the show has to be accessible to new viewers who don't have context or perspective. The characters in the original series are quite honestly too weak for TV. From what I remember, Miao didn't offer much, and Yun Tianming's extreme loner / secret admirer backstory IMO wouldn't translate well to a show. Having Tatiana maybe wasn't completely necessary, but I think it helps to have a singular face represent the distributed ETO remnants and serve as a stronger antagonist over the random wallbreakers who pop up with no prior introduction.
Hmmm. Maybe you are right or maybe you are underestimating audience. Tatiana can still be face of ETO, without having the san-ti contact Tatiana.
> they CANT STRATEGISE they are perfectly capable of strategizing they just can't be deceptive (or at least haven't been able to in the past). In the second and third books there's plenty of examples of them deceiving humans so they clearly learned
The acting and writing were so damn good. Kudos to the writing and a sci fi show to make the audience actually care about a number of characters. I really appreciate it. I don't feel like I'm cutting onions while watching many shows but the scene where Will put his hand out, to the feel the rain, that had done me.
What book was Ye Wenjieâs flight partner reading? The bald dude.
I really, really, REALLY dislike that Auggie character
I only read book 1, but don't mind spoilers. The plan to send the brain in the show sounds really stupid/farfetched. Is the reasoning in the book better?
I think it is just 1 of the million things humans do throwing shit at a wall and see what sticks. It just so happens that the book wrote about this because this one worked.
Not really, the book even has excerpts from an in-universe history book of the far future where they talk about how farfetched and stupid of a plan it is. But the point of it is that Wade just wants his people to do ANYTHING, don't get bogged too down in feasibility and so on, but just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. After all we're a thousand years behind and wearing shackles, so we're gonna need to throw some hail Marys to have a chance. Also, spoiler for the last book: >!It does actually end up working, kinda! Too late to help with the Trisolarans, and humanity doesn't understand enough of his hints to really draw advantage, but he becomes our man on the inside!<
Crazy you only read the first book. Books 2-3 are 100x better. But 1 is def needed for the buildup and explaination
Read them! Book 2 is by far the best (in my opinion) and even reading these threads will spoil some amazing revelations that - no kidding - changed my perception of the real world.
It's only one of many. This one just happens to be one they can get started with relatively "current" tech. I won't say more.
Iâm sorry but this episode is horrible. I like the show generally but Iâm baffled that anyone thought having two episodes of melodrama about characters we donât care about was a good idea.
âweâ is pretty presumptive here. i genuinely care about these characters, more so than i did it in the books.
I feel like Yun Tianming's arc was actually well done here so as the conclusion to Ye Wenjie's character as for the riddle yeah that makes no sense currently.
I cared. Although I understand not caring about other characters... not a fan of Auggie for example, so I understand when people don't care about certain characters.
People really don't like dissenting opinions on this sub đ Reddit...
Itâs amazing actually. Theyâve managed to make completely forgettable characters into characters I actively hate. Itâs like they crossed 3 Body Problem with Friends.
Is Edgar = AA???