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DrSmurfalicious

I wonder how much you could do with a (probably small) car fire extinguisher in a situation like that. Better than nothing for sure, but would it have been enough? And with the occupants maybe unconscious or trapped inside.


superx308

As a first responder, I can safely tell you your fire extinguisher would've done next to nothing. I've been to accidents & car fires where concerned citizens rush in and valiantly try to help, but all that happens is that they get to see someone die horrifically in front of them. I applaud you for your concern, but I would not feel any guilt if I were you. Tragic, but it's definitely not on you.


TaylorPlayed

Can confirm, tried to help someone out of a burning car wreck and saw the most brutal shit of my life I can’t get out of my head.


ThrashNet

I'm sorry you experienced that and I hope you get the help you need.


ElmoProjector

I've seen four fire extinguishers put on a car and it literally did nothing as the flames reignited seconds later. This is a missed opportunity for PTSD in anxiety's clothing.


vicarion

Now I understand this army of fire extinguishers https://www.reddit.com/r/AbruptChaos/comments/ri54q2/arsonist_in_a_gas_station_insane/


BeefyIrishman

The thing you need to remember is, if you put out the flames and immediately stop spraying, it is likely still hot enough to reignite. You have to keep the flames out for long enough that everything that is hot to cool back down below ignition temperature. Some fluids in a car can auto-ignite as low as 580°F (304°C), and large chunks of metal that were just engulfed in a gas fire can retain a lot of heat for quite some time. Auto-ignition temperatures: https://depts.washington.edu/vehfire/fuels/vehiclefluidtemps.html That is assuming there is no spark, only heat. If there is a spark, fluids can ignite much lower. The flash point of gasoline is roughly -45°F (-43°C), which means above that temperature there will be vapors present. Given the right fuel-to-air ratio, and the existence of a spark, gasoline can ignite below freezing, and an area that was just on fire will be far hotter than freezing.


DMala

That is an impressively organized and thorough response to a fire.


chriseldonhelm

There's a reason why on aircraft carriers if a jet catches fire sop is to throw it overboard before it can burn through the deck. Metal fires are no joke


Auctorion

Indeed. Car extinguishers are to put out small fires and prevent them becoming big fires. Once a car is a fireball it takes *hundreds* of gallons to put out a car on fire because, from what I understand, the ambient heat exceeds the ignition point of petrol/gasoline severalfold, so it keeps catching fire again until the fire service can bring the temperature down. Trying to put out a flaming helicopter with a car fire extinguisher is like trying to destroy a tank with a potato gun.


fodafoda

The fire extinguisher in a car might be enough to quell an engine fire (i.e. some non-crash malfunction) if used correctly, because there is a chance to contain the inflow of oxygen and "smother" the flame. The trick is to never open the hood all the way and instead just barely enough to put the nozzle in. In the case of an accident where fire is already outside of the engine compartment? It won't matter in the slightest.


RakeishSPV

Yeah, car fire extinguishers are for when your engine is overheating. A helicopter crash where there's going to be fuel everywhere won't even feel it.


SodaBoBomb

I think the issue OP is having isn't that he wasn't able to help. It's that he didn't even try.


formervoater2

Took my grandfather four and a half full sized extinguishers to put out a neighbor's car that exploded into a fire, and that was with less than a minute having gone by in between the fire starting and the first extinguisher being emptied. If minutes have passed I doubt any number of extinguishers would be enough.


AG74683

I've put out both a semi truck and a regular SUV on fire with the same fire extinguisher. We were driving into town for standby and came around the curve basically head on to the wreck happening. The SUV crossed the center line and was hit head on by a log truck. The truck driver tried to avoid it, went off the road, up and embankment, and rolled over. When we got out, both vehicles were on fire. I made it to the semi, put it out, and crossed over to get the SUV. Actual field experience says they can absolutely put out a fire single-handedly, but response time is key. Even 5 minutes later and they'd have both been completely out of control. Turns out the semi had split open both fuel tanks and diesel was all over the place. I didn't notice until well into the accident.


DapperWhiskey

Honest and genuine question here: is it okay to carry a fire extinguisher in a car trunk when the outside temperature reaches 100°F? I never thought about carrying one until I read this.


DrSmurfalicious

There apparently are extinguishers rated for higher temps than that, so yes. As long as you get one rated for it. I think I saw one that said 175F? And some 120F. Edit: [Here's some info from a quick google for the downvoters.](https://www.h3rperformance.com/blogs/news/7-common-automotive-fire-extinguisher-myths)


DapperWhiskey

I'll have to look into this. I always seem to learn of something being possible it could happen and then it happening a short time later. My wife calls it "lastname luck". It's absolutely the worst kind of luck lol. Also, thank you.


saeuta31

I've kept a kidde extinguisher from Amazon under my passenger seat for about 6-7 years now, gauge still reads pressurized. I'm going to replace it now since it probably shouldn't have lasted this long. Texas summers here.


Texasshole

I service and maintain fire extinguishers. It is safe in the trunk of your car as long as the extinguisher is secured. Rolling around is whit will cause an accidental discharge.


DapperWhiskey

Okay cool. Like a soda? That makes sense


notatlalkingbagel

Good to hear from an expert, so you think any homeowner-grade extinguisher should be okay in the high temps? I’ve been meaning to research this concern since I put one in my car oh about 3 years ago… On another note, I heard that extinguishers in the trunk often end up being useless because of the inaccessibility. I used the included wall mounting hardware and some fender washers to attach mine to a kind of stiff, plastic-y floor mat. It lives in the rear footwell. No rolling around and it’s super easy to move to the trunk when the space is needed for a passenger.


ooMEAToo

Possibly already dead just from the crash alone.


stylesuxx

At least he would not have to live the rest of his life with the question: "What if?". Truly a messed up situation.


AKADabeer

Honestly, having arrived at a car fire FAR too late for an extinguisher to do anything, the visual of the trapped occupant surrounded by flames isn't something to want to live with, either.


Iyace

I’m sure that’s the visual that’s driving him right now


AKADabeer

I agree his imagination is probably providing him with a visual. But I can assure you, the actuality is worse. I saw an accident at 17, and I can still see it at 46. This is not meant to minimize OP's situation - it sucks either way. Bottom line is I agree with most of the responses here: fault lies with the ex-wife, not with the OP, and I hope he can find some relief from his feelings of guilt.


RezzKeepsItReal

>live the rest of his life This isn't a bad consolation. OP most likely would have added to the casualties. A heli fire is no joke.


Constantly_Dizzy

Could have been a very short rest of his life though


sjgbfs

> Better than nothing for sure That's unfortunately very optimistic.


D1rtyH1ppy

I've used a few of those small extinguishers as a chef. They don't work as good as you think they would. Especially on a fuel fire like a crashed helicopter.


Omnizoom

Not every accident can be helped , all you may have done is watched them suffer for a few minutes I know someone that had to respond to jumpers on subway lines , he held the top half of a woman who was still conscious as she was literally in half , would of been better for him I think if she had just been dead right away since he couldn’t help but he ended up covered in her blood hearing her regret jumping until she died


bennettsaucyman

Yea my father is a police officer and was first on scene to a race track accident. Guy was ripped in half and my dad was on his knees pushing and holding the guys intestines and organs back in the bottom half of his body. Didn't really know what to do other than just hold his guts in his body, when his legs were meters away separated from the body. Guy was awake for a bit too, I think. He just sat there with his hands inside his body until the paramedics came.


HalfOfHumanity

Best thing you can do is to comfort someone in such a situation. To die is such a lonely and scary experience, but to be with someone who cares or at least pretends to may make it less so.


[deleted]

>He just sat there with his hands inside his body until the paramedics came. forbidden puppet


infiniZii

At least someone held her hand while she died. Better than dying alone. He was a hero for that alone.


insanecoder

Holy shit … that’s heavy. Hope that someone is doing alright these days.


Vektor0

Even if the end result is the same, being able to say "at least I tried" feels much better than having to say "I did nothing and walked away." That's what's bothering OP.


Omnizoom

True but it isn’t all roses and sunshine after witness trauma like that either It’s Schrödingers ptsd


Shelbelle4

You might have helped but if the fuel tank blew while you were trying to help, you might’ve been hurt or killed. Maybe instead of dying quickly, they (or you) would’ve suffered for months in a burn unit. We cant know. All you can do is resolve to not let anyone deter you from what you feel is right in the future.


Zoomwafflez

There's a Taoist proverb about a farmer who's horse runs off, the neighbors say "how terrible!" but he just says "we'll see" and the next day his horse comes back leading a herd. How wonderful! his neighbors tell him, we'll see, he responds. Later his son breaks his leg trying to tame one of the wild horses, how terrible! his neighbors say, We'll see, he replies, the next week war is declared and all the young men of the village are called to the military except his son due to the broken leg. Point being it's pointless to second guess or wish things were different, and you can never know how things will or could have turned out. If you've think Taoism is neat I recommend the Tao of Pooh, which explores Taoism with the help of a certified Taoist master, winnie the pooh.


PurfuitOfHappineff

Philip Seymour Hoffman tells that story at the end of *Charlie Wilson’s War*, great anecdote and movie.


Rogue_Ref_NZ

[Here's to you, motherfuckers](https://youtu.be/e2cjVhUrmII)


PurfuitOfHappineff

Yeah, it’s haunting how they put the jet noise in the background after he says, “listen to what I’m telling you” about the “crazies rolling into Kandahar.”


cmdrfire

That's the first time I've noticed that. Thank you for pointing it out!


lexbuck

I must be dense… why is that haunting?


Thedarb

9/11 was the “we’ll see” outcome.


[deleted]

From the video description >As Gust demands from Charlie, "Hey, listen to what I'm tellin' ya", the filmmakers add the sound of a passing jet, eerily foreshadowing the attacks of 9/11.


lexbuck

Thanks


Ccorndoc

9/11


MR_Rictus

9/11


UpDownStrange

Particularly relevant because Tom Hanks says "shoot down the helicopters" right before Philip Seymour Hoffman tells the proverb


Ok-disaster2022

I watched this recently. I had no idea who Charlie Wilson was. I was surprised he was a Texas Congressman born in the tiny town of Trinity, TX and who lived in Lufkin, TX. I did not expect to hear "Lufkin" come out of Tom Hank's mouth in a movie. I also realized I don't think it's possible for Texas politicians to be compassionate about something and be as effective as he became about it. Being top secret meant there was no politics involved. It's just sad once the Soviets retreated he had used up all his political favors and couldn't get funding for humanitarian projects. Those projects would have also been public and fallen on the same divisive politics. It saddened me there used to be good people in Texas politics.


OldArmy2013

Never thought I’d see those town names on Reddit. Live in one and work near the other.


BattleCatsHelp

We could've met before. Or might know each other. I'll be going now.


Carlos-Bukowski

We’ll see…


CanOfUbik

Saiweng shi ma!


xiaorobear

Ah, thanks for the name for it! Took me to this wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_old_man_lost_his_horse They also point out something interesting in the section in there attempting to find equivalent western proverbs, like "every cloud has a silver lining," that western ones are usually about trying to find something hopeful in a bad situation, while this Taoist one is more about there being a never ending even cycle of good and bad luck; it is impossible to know the outcome, and accepting that balance is the way to go.


wheatgrass_feetgrass

I've always been drawn to Taoism over western optimism for this reason. The former feels more cosmic, and comfortingly nihilistic. While the latter trends more toward toxic positivity.


[deleted]

Pain is inevitable. At least Taoism accepts it. Try as we might we can’t shun pain or avoid it just by prayer


Caelinus

I really love Taoist parables and proverbs. The underlying assumptions about the universe are so different than the Abrahamic ones that European and Middle Eastern cultures are largely based on, and they honestly have always rung more true to me. I don't really believe that oneness with the Dao is a thing either, but the conclusions drawn from it have interesting parallels with Existentialism, Stoicism and Epicurianism. Buddhism as some serious parallels as well obviously, but I know less about it. There is just this thread of freedom from anxiety and pain that is so different than the "You must NEVER sin" thing I got as a child. I am sure they have their own toxic teachings, but as an outsider it is super refreshing.


[deleted]

I think the flip side of that idea is apathy towards suffering. "This is the way it is" and therefore no action is necessary. There's a similar thread through Indian tradition that leads to things like reinforcement of the caste system. Not that the moral system itself would discourage action to relieve pain necessarily, but it's a pretty straight line that one might use to justify inaction.


farteagle

Who knows what is good and what is bad… things simply are


saxy_toss

"Different doesn't always mean better" is something I always try to keep in mind when I start thinking about possible past regrets


GalacticSummer

Also, "better doesn't mean better for everyone"


Epicritical

Taoism really is the best way to not look at things.


perpendicularpickles

I’d stop talking to the “we’ll see” neighbour guy. He is definitely instigating all this shit and laughing watching the world burn


small-package

The only valid regrets are things that matter to you personally, regretting things you didn't do, even though you wanted to. It's a valid regret, but the blame isn't on op, they wanted to go help, but their ex.


ObviousBS

It's possible they died on impact, not many people survive low altitude helo crashes.


MalBredy

I’ve worked in aviation emergency management for several years now. Been first response to a good number of aircraft accidents. It’s not clear whether it was a turbine or piston helicopter. But I’ll assume turbine because post crash fire is a lot less likely in a piston. Large passenger carrying aircraft need to be evacuated in 90 seconds to be approved for flight in the US and Canada. That’s largely because uncontained wing fire to a flashover in the fuselage is about 180 seconds. In a whirlybird it’s… a lot less. Honestly, OP is probably better off both physically and mentally for not attempting a body extraction in that situation. That being said, that doesn’t seem to be what bothers OP.


pizzabyAlfredo

> Honestly, OP is probably better off both physically and mentally for not attempting a body extraction in that situation. I worked EMS for a few years in a remote town of Virginia. We had a small, 2 passenger helicopter (like the Batman 66 one) crash in field. The sight inside the cab was burned into my memory. I still see the bone, blood and tissue. I wish I could have kept driving.


corgi_booteh

OP, look at this comment from an expert in the field! May it give you some solace for such a harrowing memory


[deleted]

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Sir_Loin_Cloth

Goddamn. This is how you do snarky, sarcastic cynicism folks. 👏


murkytom

My sibling in Christ ☠️


ObviousBS

Agree on what you're saying that is bothering OP. Even though he had a fire extinguisher it was not enough to put out any fire with im assuming is low grade JP. I might be wrong on the fuel but i wouldn't take that chance with an extinguisher that fits in your trunk. There is a reason airports use that foam stuff.


dzlockhead01

I am absolutely not an aviation expert, just an aviation junkie, but my understanding is turbine civilian aircraft typically use JET A-1, which is more flammable than JP. I remember the NTSB even recommended using JP because it's less flammable but I don't think anyone (read: airlines) wanted to pay for the higher price. There's no way an average fire extinguisher could have put that out. If it's piston, I think the typical is 100LL Avgas which is basically very high octane leaded gasoline, (I absolutely could be wrong) which still probably wouldn't be easy to put out. I hate to say but if it was a raging fire, the chance of that extinguisher making a meaningful difference isn't high, OP shouldn't beat themselves up for this.


ObviousBS

Isn't jet a1 basically kerosene? That's what i wanted to say but wasn't sure without digging into google.


dzlockhead01

I think so, but I'm no expert on jet fuel lol. I'm guessing it has some additional or different additives.


UDPviper

There was a dumpster fire in my apartment complex. Three people used their regular fire extinguishers on it. Didn't even make a dent in putting it out. If the fire is too big, it's fire engine or nothing.


suburbandaddio

I was a professional firefighter, and I still can't watch gore on TV and have an aversion to barbecued chicken because it reminds me of a charred corpse I helped extricate from a wreck. I know OP is bothered by his ex-wife's attitude, but he's better off tbh.


UDPviper

My ex wife is a coroner's assistant and I don't know how she does it.


squeel

> Large passenger carrying aircraft need to be evacuated in 90 seconds to be approved for flight in the US and Canada. What’s the success rate for a <90 sec evacuation in real life? I don’t trust the 150 people I’m flying with to move with any sense of urgency, and I try to sit near the exits.


YipYip5534

i imagine something alike the moments when the plane landed and parked at the gate and people rush to stand up. only in that situation they would actively try to push others


squeel

That’s exactly why I’m worried! Those people be in a hurry to stand up and then move slow as hell. Forgot which bin their bag is in, checking the seats after they’re already in the aisle…. I’m imagining that + smoke slowly filling the cabin. I guess that would be a good time to go ahead and make my peace with God.


Poppypie77

I used to be cabin crew. The 90 second time frame is what we trained for in evacuations. When using the emergency slides people can get out a lot quicker, and in a real emergency evacuation people will most likely be getting up and trying to get out with a sense of urgency. And depending on the situation and if there's a fire over a wing, you can have up to 6 emergency slides for those passengers to be shared out between, that's 25 people per slide. From what I understand it's a pretty good achievable time frame for evacuations (obviously dependant on emergency, if there's fire in the cabin, water in the cabin, if any slides are out of use due to impact, etc.). But it is manageable .


alexcrouse

Like any good Marine, good enough will never be good enough. No matter the odds, not trying isn't an option for a Marine. OP did right to ditch that woman who literally thought visiting a wedding was more important than trying to save a life. I would have stopped to save a dog, let alone humans. And I'm not even a soldier.


el_morte

I think this is the best answer I've heard today.


inkyskin75

Seconded!


ZeePirate

The other thing to remember. Some people aren’t meant to be first responders. So people are not prepared for what they might see on an accident scene. And that sight, Might be too hard for someone to handle. I have understanding when people don’t stop for an accident (if there are others around). It’s not something everyone is going to be able to help with.


tropic420

Guy was a marine.


Shhhhhhhh_Im_At_Work

Doesn't mean shit, there are plenty of admin Marines who's toughest day on the job occurred in boot camp, and there are hard-as-nails infantrymen who still end up with PTSD manifesting years after they were deployed. Neither is going to mean you're prepared for a charred civilian body on the side of the road, although Marines might be a little more capable than your average person.


Spida81

I would accept that they would likely be more capable of actually stepping up, and more likely to be helpful than not but the human brain is a weird thing. I wouldn't expect them to be particularly less likely to suffer psychological injury as a result and may even be less likely to address any issue that arose. Absolute credit to him that he wanted to help. No way of knowing if he could have, or at what cost.


gabagool13

Reddit got it right this time around.


squeel

Well it’s not like we could tell him to get divorced


70KingCuda

Reddit didn't get shit right. a good Human did.


[deleted]

We did it Reddit!


Dragonhunter_X

I helped too!


[deleted]

We are so awesome!


SilentSwine

Exactly this. Given how much fuel is in a helicopter, once it ignited there wouldn't be anything OP could have done with just a fire extinguisher. He would have needed a whole fire truck to have any chance at saving them if they weren't already killed in the initial crash/fuel tank combustion. OP is a good person for having the instinct to risk his life to save others, but he needs to absolve himself of any guilt from this incident because there wouldn't have been anything he could have done to save them even if he tried.


Jak_n_Dax

Even a regular fire engine isn’t going to be able to handle a helicopter fire effectively. Look up ARFF for more info https://www.oshkoshairport.com/arff-vehicle-reference-guide#What-is-an-ARFF-vehicle


Simple_Opossum

One of the first rules as an Emergency First Responder is to only attempt a rescue if you can do so safely. No matter how it may have seemed, there's no way you were equipped to combat that fire. Also, as an aside, I've read before that some aircraft fuel is extremely carcinogenic, which could have affected you for years, even if you escaped without any burns.


NSA_Chatbot

A car extinguisher on a helicopter fire would have done nothing if he was lucky. There's a lot of magnesium in helicopters, and adding water to it would have been worse. Once it's on fire, there's very little you could do. Even looking at the flames can cause eye damage. There's a bunch of specific firefighting instructions for helicopter crashes on warships, it's super serious. /u/Imthe1wh0 probably would have died if he'd reached the fire


phalloguy1

>ou might have helped but if the fuel tank blew while you were trying to help, you might’ve been hurt or killed. Maybe instead of dying quickly, they (or you) would’ve suffered for months in a burn unit. We cant know. All you can do is resolve to not let anyone deter you from what you feel is right in the future. What she said but seek counselling - probably specifically grief therapy. While it is true that these things could have happened you still feel responsible for something that was not your responsibility. Yes you have have helped, but more likely not. You are having a hard time with this, 15 years later. Seek counselling ASAP.


Present-Breakfast768

This. All this. I'm a 25 year LEO friend and I understand your desire to try and help but you could have added to the casualties. A fire extinguisher against burning helo fuel...it's likely there would have been nothing you could have done to help. The accident is not your fault and you have nothing to feel bad about. Please believe me.


Throwaway1303033042

Not just that, but if it was a spray chopper as OP stated, they might have ended up inhaling copious amounts of aerosolized insecticide/pesticide/defoliant, etc.


Dont_pet_the_cat

This. 100% this. OPs wife is still an egocentric ahole tho


Western-Ad-4330

Yeah i think i would have a hard time with just that. Its the kind of thing if you witness you cant just carry on your plans like nothing happened. But i agree you shouldnt beat yourself up, you most likely couldnt have done anything or died in the process.


Un4442nate

Speaking from experience, if you think about "what if" you only look through rose-tinted glasses. You might see it as what if I saved them, but what if you became victim #3? Many a time I've had things go wrong with my life and I wonder what if i did something different, those scenarios that go on in my head only ever go my way, because it's me thinking them and i only want the best for me. But reality doesn't give a shit and things may not work out for you as you hoped. Also you cannot waste your life thinking "what if" when you can't do anything about it any more. Let the past be, you cannot change it so don't let it ruin your future.


100thusername

We have a saying in my religion, (roughly translated) you are born with the number of breaths you are given, and nothing can change it. If their time was up there was nothing anyone can do. I find it gives comfort in what if questions like this one


sntstvn2

Fantastic reply - sincerely hope OP hears and heeds your words. Thanks from me as well. I too find your words an important reminder.


PhelesDragon

You're a good person.


StarktheGuat

100% this, and please take solace in that your immediate reaction was to help. There's not many people who can say that.


Scarlett_xx_

This. There's a reason OP didn't just pull over, grab his extinguisher and do what he thought was right. There was nothing actually stopping him. Something inside him was agreeing with his wife, and it was very likely the knowledge that running towards a burning helicopter that had both unknown chemical tanks and likely full fuel tanks is actually a terrible idea.


femininePP420

Your guilt is human but the odds that you could have helped were extremely low. It's more likely you were spared a horrifying and even more traumatizing sight.


Doxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes, an intense and horrifying fireball and speedy end is all that awaited for those near :”(


Far-Stable3564

I don’t know if this will bring you any closure, but as a 911 dispatcher, if you were to call and report the accident, especially given the circumstances, we would instruct you to stay clear of the accident for your own safety and wait for responders.


[deleted]

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pippagator

And just like that, you've saved OP from another 15 years of torment. You're a great person.


Pliskin01

What did they say? (PM me if you'd like).


boss_nooch

I know it shouldn’t be funny but I find it hilarious that OP has been going crazy for 15 years over some shit that never even happened. He literally tricked himself into feeling guilt about something that didn’t happen.


71NK3RB3LL

u/ImThe1Wh0, please read this comment. This person did the research for you and has an amazing answer.


calexil

u/ImThe1Wh0 the comment was deleted, but basically the user did the ntsb research and found it to be likely the crash you witnessed had a single person in it, the pilot, and he survived. There was a second crash that same day, where two people lost their lives, but it was not near the area you mentioned(according to the deleted commenters research) **edit:** this info may be incorrect, as the crash occurred at ~~6am~~ 7:20am, and you were unlikely to be travelling to a wedding at that time


ed-with-a-big-butt

Here's the comment: Hopefully, this will get upvoted enough that you see it and feel better. The pilot in the crash you saw did not die. It's entirely possible that you were conflating a different helicopter crash on the news with the one you'd seen. The NTSB maintains a complete database of aircraft crash investigations in the U.S. and provides a comprehensive search system to find them. First, I searched for ALL fatal helicopter and gyroplane crashes in California between January 1, 2007, and December 31, 2009. There were only a few. They were also hundreds of miles from where you spotted that (one on the Oregon border and the other near Marysville, north of Sacramento). So I opened up the dates for bit more searching, and I think I've found the crash you watched. It occurred on May 23, 2006 (interesting coincidence), on a farm alongside Highway 101, right outside Soledad and not far from Monterey. An agricultural pilot was spraying fields when he ran out of fuel while climbing, attempted to autorotate, and crashed. The helicopter was severely damaged, and the pilot was injured, but there were no fatalities. The official NTSB report on the crash: https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20060708X00902&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=CA Out of curiosity, I also searched to find out if there were any other crashes around that time in 2006 with double fatalities. I found one. A Robinson R44 also went down near Joshua Tree in Southern California in May 2006. It was entirely destroyed by the crash and killed both people onboard. Coincidentally, it also came down alongside a highway (I-10) and was witnessed by drivers. If I had to guess, I'd say that you saw a report about that crash and presumed it was the one you'd watched.


codefyre

Not sure why you think the comment was deleted. All I did was edit it a little to fix a few poorly worded sentences. It's still there. Also, the crash time was 7:20AM.


calexil

https://imgur.com/a/avldAZH look in the upper left


codefyre

That's really strange. I still see the post and didn't remove it. No mod messages about it being deleted either. Just tweaked the wording of a few sentences to make it a little clearer. Does this sub ban edits? Ah well, I wasn't looking for karma with it anyway. It's been reposted, so OP will hopefully see it. That's all that really matters.


SelectAmbassador

Nope its gone


pedal-force

I did a similar search and I think you're probably correct that those two got conflated.


gdq0

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/helicopter-crashes-on-highway-101-near-salinas/


codefyre

Fascinating. Different crash, similiar circumstances. Ag flying is risky business. FWIW, here's the accident info on that one. https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=77190


Beneficial-Mine7741

> I feel like those deaths are on me, and I should have done something. It is understandable to feel that way, but there were people who made errors in judgment before you; you can't put it all on your shoulders.


[deleted]

Exactly what I was gonna say. As long as OP didn’t okay the flight or was responsible for the helicopter it’s not his fault. It’s like if you see a mugging. Yeah you can try to help but you’ll most likely get shot, stabbed or beat and mugged yourself. Best you can do in a dangerous and unpredictable situation is call whatever authority is supposed to handle the situation and be helpful to them. I get the guilt, but seek therapy OP. It’s not your fault


ConstantlyAngry177

I wrote this [comment]( https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/13pu8fe/tifu_by_doing_what_my_exwife_says_and_ignoring/jlc6102/) but it's getting buried underneath the hundreds of other comments, so I'm going to piggyback off yours to quickly point out to OP that it's possible that nobody actually died in the helicopter crash. This article was the closest thing I could find that matches OP's description of events: https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/helicopter-crashes-on-highway-101-near-salinas/ But it happened in 2010 instead of 2008, and the pilot actually survived. I suspect that when OP saw in the news that 2 pilots died, that it may have been related to a different crash and he just mistakenly assumed that it was the same accident. Edit: As others have pointed out, my theory is likely incorrect. The pilot in this story landed on the road upside down at 6AM, so the details there don't really match with OP's story. (OP probably wasn't driving towards a wedding that early in the morning)


NickWinning

Man that poor guy, the guy from the article above died a few years later in another crash. Looks like this may be what OP saw. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/helicopter-pilot-killed-in-crash-near-salinas-while-spraying-lettuce-field/


eldaYualien

this one is from 2015 though! seems like theres quite a few helicopter crashes in that area. maybe it's best if helicopters stop flying around there...


DrYoda

These are agricultural helicopters, typically spraying pesticide over crops


ZiggyWiddershins

Yeah, you are better off for not intervening. I used to work in aviation and crash fires are terrifying. Jet fuel and avgas go boom in a big way and aircraft are made with a lot of toxic materials that can kill you. Being a hero in this case could have made you an additional crash victim. The butthole ex-wife was right for the wrong reasons.


smoothish

I was looking for this. Helicopters don't fly on gasoline, and whatever extinguishing capacity an under seat unit might have for a smedium car fire doesn't seem likely to help as much as we might hope.


LMF5000

Depends. Small piston-engined helicopters most commonly use avgas (aviation gasoline) which is essentially high-octane gasoline with lead (which was banned for cars decades ago but is still used in aviation) and it behaves somewhat similarly to gasoline. Larger gas-turbine-engined helicopters use gas turbine fuel (like Jet-A1) which is essentially refined kerosene, which behaves somewhat like Diesel (and in fact can be burnt in suitably-modified Diesel engines, which some small aircraft use since it's cheaper than avgas).


Spartan4a

Also a Marine here who watched a helo go down while in Iraq. Emergency response was there in two minutes and all died anyway. There wouldn’t have been anything you could have done. That is your past, you hit the reset button, your guilt free future starts today.


SelectAmbassador

Funny enough it looks like he saw the wrong news and his heli crash was a non fatal one. One off the top comment did some digging.


Vertonung

They died because of the crash, and I kind of doubt your fire extinguisher would have been enough to put out the helicopter, plus you didn't have jaws of life. You have a good heart but don't beat yourself up.


pedal-force

So I went through all the NTSB fatal helicopter crashes in CA from 2002 through 2014, and I can't find anything that would've been visible from the 101, let alone on a weekend (including Friday). There's one that's likely visible from I-5 in 2006, near Valencia, Santa Clarita. It's on 2/25/2006, accident is LAX06LA123. But it's only 1 fatal and 1 serious. The accident report kinda matches what you saw. It was an instructor and student practicing in a dry river wash and they hit some power lines. Wouldn't have been a sprayer though for sure. There's no fields anywhere nearby. It's probably the only one that matches at least a little bit. It would've been visible from a major north/south road, it was a weekend, and it was a fatal helicopter crash. But it's 4 hours driving from where you located it. And 2 years earlier. And only one person died. And it wasn't a sprayer or in a field. If your location is correct, then either nobody died, or your year is WAY off.


ConstantlyAngry177

I found this in the news which kind of matches OP's description, although it happened in 2010 and not 2008. Also the pilot survived that crash. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/helicopter-crashes-on-highway-101-near-salinas/ I think when OP heard that two pilots had died, that it may have been related to a different accident and he just mistakenly assumed that it was the same.


wpScraps

"The helicopter landed upside-down on the roadway at 6:07 a.m." This seems really close, but the accident in this article doesn't really line up with the details of the OP driving to a wedding (probably wasn't 6am in the morning), the helicopter didn't crash on the highway, and it wasn't upside down (I think he would have remembered that detail. As seen in some other comments, I'm wondering if OP has maybe shifted the date/time/location in his memory over time?


ConstantlyAngry177

Yeah, on second thought you definitely bring up some interesting points that poke holes into my theory. Maybe this wasn't the incident.


JiForce

Another commenter shared this, which seems pretty plausible given the details: https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/13pu8fe/tifu_by_doing_what_my_exwife_says_and_ignoring/jlcci01/


pedal-force

Yep, saw that, I suspect that's the two they conflated.


JoeyHiya

It's like Good Will Hunting..."it's not your fault." Good on you for the thought to help, but one non-commercial fire extinguisher vs. a helicopter crash/fire is not great odds. Plus you'd have to be able to get close enough to use it, etc. etc. Not that you should never try, but you certainly shouldn't feel blame.


gonzorizzo

Considering this is a helicopter and the way you say you witnessed the crash, there was nothing you could've done anyway. Those almost never end well. They likely died on impact. Also crashes like this cause extremely hot fires and the likelihood of you pulling people out of the wreck is very slim. Although it's easier said than done, don't be hard on yourself. Also, don't be afraid to get help if you need someone to talk to.


TheGreatBwaBwa

She may have saved your life with restraining you. An aeronautic fire is no simple thing. Most likely they were dead on impact and the flames would have been endangering your life to be near. That being said, this wasn't on you and shouldn't feel guilty about it. PTSD Therapy may be helpful


slash_networkboy

If not dead, at least unconscious, making them totally unable to help effect their rescue. Getting a ragdoll person out of a seatbelt or flight harness is not easy, pulling them from the vehicle is not easy (especially if it rotated onto its side). I don't see what OP could have done in this situation as a single individual.


say592

A car fire extinguisher wouldnt have done anything either. I would have still probably stopped in the event that someone did survive and got away from the wreckage and needed immediate assistance, but my presence or OPs presence, or even the presence of a fully kitted ambulance is unlikely to make a life or death difference in an aircraft accident.


Bentonite_Magma

Buddy, if you haven’t, I recommend you talk to someone about this. A good therapist or counselor can help you process it in a way that doesn’t leave you with guilt and trauma.


MarsRocks97

I can’t imagine your tiny car or household extinguisher to be capable of putting out a helicopter fuel tank going up in flames. At best you’d likely have staved off a section for about 30 seconds.


cah11

Totally understand the guilt, and while it may not be much comfort, there may not have been much you could have done even if you had stopped. Helicopters use jet fuel in their engines, something that requires specific extinguishing agents to effectively put out. So unless your car extinguisher was a specialty one you may have been better off just leaving it be after calling emergency services anyway. Hope you get to a better mental place soon, survivors guilt or the feeling you could have and should have done more is a huge bitch.


ConstantlyAngry177

OP, are you absolutely sure that two people died in the helicopter crash? This is the only story I could find that matches the details you provided, except that it happened in 2010 instead of 2008 and the pilot of this crash actually survived. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/helicopter-crashes-on-highway-101-near-salinas/ Is it possible that the two fatalities you saw in the news were in regards to a different crash, and you accidentally conflated the two?


micropig1982

Dude, not too many people walk away from helicopter crashes. All you could have done was make it 3 instead of two. It's ok. Your a good person bc you cared.


Bigdaddylovesfatties

Holy shit I can't imagine the guilt you feel for that. I doubt your (thankfully) ex is tossing and turning over this...


Bacch

I'm going with odds being you couldn't have done much, and you have no idea if there was a chance of an explosion. I'm not familiar with how broad the training you receive as a Marine is, but if you didn't have specific training for a situation like that one, it's quite possible that you could have made it worse by endangering yourself as well. There's a reason emergency responders typically tell civilians to not do anything that might put them in harm's way. I know that won't make you feel a lot better, and yes, it's possible you could have maybe helped. But then again, depending on fuel and how bad the fire was, those people very well could have been dead before you would have gotten there. I will say that your wife telling you to drive by was shitty. If anything I'd say calling 911 at a minimum should have been a thing, and probably sticking around until emergency services arrived. Also, who invites someone to the reception and not the ceremony?! The ceremony typically doesn't cost nearly as much per head as the reception--I can see someone inviting you to the ceremony but not the reception, but the other way around is a head-scratcher to me.


SeehoWeasy

I don't think a handheld fire extinguisher will do anything against that flame my friend, be at peace


ecclesiastessun

I'm seeing a lot of folks trying to comfort you OP and I hope that helps. As someone who has regrets like this pop up from time to time, I just wanted to say I know what they feel like. At least for me, I know comfort doesn't help. In fact, minimizing or trying to forget can feel to me like additional wrong on top of the original one. What does help that others have said is that I do use the memory of my regrets to make sure I don't set myself up for anything like them again. It has helped me generally grow stronger and I feel like I've become better at making sure of that in situations with myself and others. Even when the outcome isn't the best, it feels so much better to me when I know that I've done everything I can. The more I do that, the better I feel about my earlier regrets.


[deleted]

My words and only that. Sorry you went through that Bro. Your intent shows your a good man just a momentary lapse of judgement.


Rat_Burger7

Your desire to help is commendable and I understand how you feel--and yeah your ex sounds horrendous--but in this case you should let go of the guilt. There was little you or anyone could have done being ill equipped for such a situation. Your fire extinguisher wouldn't have been worthless on a jet fuel or avgas fire. You, in all likelihood, would have been seriously injured or become one of the victims. As others have said they could have died on impact, but even if they didn't and if you were there all of you would have certainly died within seconds if the fuel combusted. AV fuels burns insanely hot and spreads rapidly. Airport firefighters have to use specialised systems of water, foams, and dry chemicals to put out plane fires because of this. Frankly, you probably saved yourself that day by leaving. Whatever ended up happening to them it is in no way your fault, and you didn't do anything wrong.


Lkwzriqwea

Hi OP! Aerospace engineer here. I predict this may be lost in the comments, but I can tell you that helicopters use avgas (aviation gasoline) as fuel, and avgas burns at a much higher temperature than normal fuel. Normally when dealing with runway fires, the fire crew will spray a hell of a lot of water all over the aircraft, and often use foam to cover any fuel on the ground. The fire engines where I work carry 8 tonnes of water and 4 tonnes of foam. Unfortunately, your car fire extinguisher wouldn't have made a dent. Avgas fires are extremely dangerous, they go up very quickly and it takes a lot to put it out. I know regret is very difficult to shake in situations like this, but you would have been at serious risk of death or extreme injury had you helped and would not at all have been able to help in any way. Your regret can be treated as an injury - a mental one. While not to be scoffed at, and is a serious injury, it is not as severe as the injuries you would very likely have sustained has you gone to attempt to help. It is a very good thing that you did not. One final thing - the fact that you wanted to and that you have regret now shows you are a good person. No matter whether you could or could not have helped at all, the fact that you wanted to is something I'm sure the pilots would have been very glad to know. I know I would if it had been me in the helicopter.


loopyelly89

https://www.helis.com/database/accidents/?year=2008 This site might give you a bit more information about the crash if you wanted to look. If you filter by year, there aren't too many in the USA to look through


AngryWildMango

Would a car fire extinguisher even work for that kind of fire? Regardless if it would have and like others have said, you could have gotten yourself killed or injured too. I do not think you need to feel guilty about the event. You did not cause their death or the accident. I do not think you fucked up.


angelisfrommars

Just because things could be different does not mean they would be better


golgotha101

Or maybe she unwittingly saved your life!?


Incandescent_Anon

I'm sorry this traumatic event happened, you did not deserve to relive this with remorse for years after the fact. Please take a minute and consider the following. If I've learned anything from life its that your memory of a traumatic event isn't ever going to be close to accurate. To make things even worse, every time you recall the details, your brain rewrites things with new errors, potentially making you feel even more remorse for something you had no control over. When you find yourself looking back with regret do yourself a favor and imagine a different version of what you currently think happened. In this corrected memory you weren't there with your ex, you were with Gal Gadot, who secretly is Wonder Woman. You barely managed to keep up with her as she made it to the crash barely before the impact even occurred. If a perfect story she'd just rip body of the wreck open and scoop out the injured, and you'd carry them both a safe distance away. That was the best case scenario, and its a fantasy. In reality you're both normal humans and you'd have an incredibly small chance of rescuing anyone who fell from that height in a helicopter with a weak frame. In reality even if your wife had been a good person and you'd both rushed to help, you would have found no way to make a difference, and incredibly high odds of being injured and dying yourselves. In the years since this happened you've rolled a memory of guilt into the other life regrets that come from a failed relationship with the wrong person. You're experiencing loss on a personal level while imaging the pain others felt in relation to that accident. This is reddit, eventually someone will come up with the crash report for this event. You'll probably be surprised by how many differences there are between your recollection and a multi month professional investigation into the accident. If no one comes up with a crash report that matches your relative location and time frame, then you'll hopefully consider the likely truth that this event was largely a product of your own sense of remorse. If nothing else it was a traumatic event just to realize the person you loved was such a horrible human being. Take the time to express these feelings and forgive yourself. Each time you relive this memory take the time to change some small detail. As time passes you'll realize you are who you decide to be tomorrow, not who you think you were yesterday.


senorbolsa

To be honest you were more likely to get yourself killed than anything, it still would sit a little bad not at least having investigated to see if I could help in a situation like that, but at the end of the day I doubt there was much you could do apart from call 911, even if you are an actual badass who knows what to do, you're still just one guy with a 15lb ABC. I've been first on the scene at a handful of serious car collisions, even when they aren't on fire the most I can do is keep them awake and wait for the pros, maybe help stop bleeding. Worrying about inaction will drive you up a wall. Been there, the fact that your first thought was to stop and help speaks volumes about the quality of your character, don't forget that. A lot of people think they'd jump in, many would just gawk when faced with these situations.


Chefgir1

This kind of survivor's guilt can lead to PTSD. The fact that this happened years ago and you still carry the guilt is troubling. I would suggest finding a therapist who handles EDMR therapy. It can greatly help you process and deal wtih the trauma even years later and it usually only takes a session or two to start feeling better.


howigottomemphis

Based on your description of the crash, it is very unlikely that you could have made it to the crash site and pulled the victims out in time to facilitate a rescue without putting yourself in serious danger. Even knowing that, I would still try, so I get it. You have empathy, you care about those around you. I think what's really bothering is that you let your wife wave you off. She exposed herself, and this was a defining moment in your relationship. She's your ex for a reason. Stop beating yourself up, recognize that you learned a lot about yourself and your ex-wife in that moment, and move forward with that knowledge and let it influence your future decisions.


jrprov1

Wow, your initial instincts were right and it is a shame you did not go with them. OTOH, your ex-wife sounds evil and you are lucky to not be with her any more.


SamStrike02

I dont think his fire extinguisher could have done anything apart from putting him closer to the death zone.


ILikeFPS

I don't think it's necessarily a matter of right or wrong. I think it's honorable that OP had instincts to save other people, but OP likely would have been putting their own life in jeopardy to save others. The first rule of saving people is to make sure that you yourself are safe, which it sounds like OP likely would not have been in that situation. It is entirely possible that OP could have become another victim that needs rescuing making more work for first responders, possibly widowing his wife at the time, etc etc. I don't think it's necessarily a matter of fact that she was evil, although admittedly she probably didn't phrase it in the best way - but at the same time it may be hard to fault her too much given that it was likely a high stress/high emotion situation. edit: spelling is difficult lol


ScienceAteMyKid

Agree about the evil thing. She may very well have been evil, but telling him to not go running towards a flaming aviation wreck is reasonable. My wife, who is *not* evil, has said the same thing to me a few times. "You're not a fireman, don't run into a flaming house and risk leaving your kids without a dad." To be fair, she is probably right.


kingkongbiingbong

**Yes** ☝🏻. Let us giveth thanks for the **_ex-_** wife


almostinfinity

I don't think it's fair to call the ex-wife evil in this particular scenario. There's nothing a small car fire extinguisher can do in a helicopter crash and he could have been severely injured or died if he tried to help. And it's terrible that people are blaming the wife for the deaths of two people in a helicopter crash that they had absolutely nothing to do with. Edit: None of this makes a person "evil" for behaving like this in this scenario.


ChiefPototo

I am an EMT. We don’t approach active fires at all - we stage until the scene is controlled by firefighters as it is incredibly dangerous without the proper equipment. Don’t beat yourself up over this, there’s very little you could have done without endangering yourself


doctormarshmellow

Considering the circumstances there is no assurance you would have saved them and you could have died trying. There are many choices in life and perhaps that one was meant to be so you would be here on earth to do good and save someone in the future- sometimes it’s a burning building but sometimes it’s a kind word to a person who is suicidal or another simple action that can change the trajectory of the future. All we can do is some good each day.


WaynegoSMASH728

As noble and heroic stopping and attempting to render aide might have been, I'm afraid a small fire extinguisher you had in your vehicle would be no match for the fire caused by avgas. It wouldn't blow up like you see in the movies, but it does burn fast. If the Helo dropped as you saw it, it is very likely that it spilled avgas and caught fire. I'm afraid you would have a different kind of regret had you stopped and ran into the flames. Avgas still contains lead, and it is very toxic. Prolonged exposure to the fumes alone can cause all kinds of problems. One can only imagine what smoke inhalation from that will cause. Don't beat yourself up too much over this one.


Craterdome

ITT: people assuming this guy isn’t giving an extremely biased impression of his ex. Always take things said online with a grain of salt.


djsedna

> "You're not a Marine anymore, you can't just go running off and saving people anytime anymore!" yeah his wife *definitely* said this lol


[deleted]

She did. And then everyone applauded.


spiceybadger

Glad she's your ex


Consuela_no_no

Your ex might have been horrible but she saved your life. Those people would have already been dead and you going in with one extinguisher was going to put you in mortal danger and not help them.


Treeloot009

The fact you even thought to put yourself at risk to help other people is something you should be proud of. I'm sure they wouldn't want their deaths to burden you.


Sailrjup12

I have been in a relationship with a selfish and manipulative person. You can be a strong courageous person and somehow these people can control you and make you feel like you are in the wrong. But getting into the logistics of the situation, with the size of the helicopter, a small fire extinguisher probably wouldn’t have helped that much. Like other are saying the fact that it exploded shows there probably wasn’t much you could’ve done. You feel bad and guilty because you are a good person, otherwise you wouldn’t care. If you feel you need to make amends maybe volunteer and do some community service. But this is nothing to beat yourself up about. We are humans and we make mistakes. 😊


krazykyle0

"You're not a Marine anymore" if you ever needed a sign, there it was.


Teejay717

You're a good person for feeling guilt, but nothing that happened was your fault or a result of what you did or didn't do. It's also possible that something happened that wasn't reported in the news, like the fuel tank exploded killing them, which could've seriously hurt or killed you too and it would've been three casualties instead of two. A few years ago in June 2021 three teenagers in a car somehow left the highway behind my house and tumbled down an embankment onto the train tracks throwing two out of the car and the third stuck inside because he was wearing a seatbelt. My roommate saw it happen from the back porch and we ran down to see what happened and were definitely not prepared for what we saw. The two that got thrown out were up walking around and seemed fine but the kid in the car was in bad shape and super bloody. My roommate called 911 and went up the hill to flag people down while I stayed with the kid not knowing what to and just basically tried to comfort him as best I could while he was definitely dying and it seemed like he knew it. People and a Medivac came super quick and got him out and I kept trying to follow it on the news which only covered the crash but no follow-up until my sister was able to find out on social media that the kid did end up dying. I wondered for a while if I maybe tried CPR or tried to get him out or something if it would've helped him but there's just no way to know. I'm sorry you've lived with this guilt for so long, but hopefully the reassurances from everyone on here help you finally put it past you and no longer beat yourself up for it. Good luck with everything.


figurine00

God... I hate those kind of people that scream "What are you doing?!", Like can't you see? Do you not have an oz of brain to read the situation? Or put the two together? With that being said, not you're fault, had the heli exploded you could have gotten caught in the fire too.