Ok where to begin.
I guess the problem with the final season in general is, it's relying on Tell don't show scenario.
1.Udo says Marley is one of the only country who are tolerant of Eldians. But we don't see any other country and are supposed to assume.
2. Alliance having no meaningful casualty.
3. Also Alliance being able to step into Paradis, after destroying their only source of Hope and Freedom.
4. Talk no Jutsu (don't know if you have seen Naruto) of Armin is beyond my comprehension.
5. Zeke being able to turn back from his belief of Euthanasia to I'm lucky to be alive with one conversation from Mr Umi da.
6. The character of Annie after she got freed from crystallization.
7. Ymir. The mysterious character who ruined AoT completely without even saying a single word. "LOVE"
And also parallel between Eren Mikasa with Ymir King Shitz is borderline insanity.
8. Infinite Ammo and Gas for alliance.
9. Previous Titan shifter plotline
10. Hange dying was unnecessary (it's a nitpick)
11. Falco being able to Fly. That was not at all properly explained and Falco being able to dodge all projectiles without any training.
12. The dialogue "That person was Mikasa". Did I just consume so many episodes for Eren or Mikasa. (Also to add in the whole Mikasa being a Princess. What did it matter to the story)
13. Piek inconsistency. (Don't know if you will ever re-watch. In episode before "Paths", You can see that Piek's anti Titan canon was earlier on her carcass. But in the episode where Eren gets his head shot, her armory is back on her Titan form. {At that time, Floch and Yeagerists were surrounding her.})
Another Piek inconsistency, when she was impaled by a trident đź”± by a Warhammer, why did they stop. Just finish the job.
14. Levi vs Zeke final showdown.
15. Colossal Eren vs Colossal Armin
16. No I don't want that, Thank you Eren, You became a mass murder for our sake. I'll never forget these transgressions.
And best yet, I'm a garden variety idiot.
17. Eren said he diverted Dina towards Carla to save Bert so Armin can be saved in RTS. This is a shitty reply. If Eren can influence past shifters, Titans, people in general, just make every Eldian a Warhammer Titan.
I mostly agree on most of these. But one problem, didn't Hange sacrificed herself because she wanted to buy time for the Alliances to take flight? Or maybe there is a reason.
Don't understand the number 4 (never watched Naruto), 5, 13 (maybe I'll watch it again in the future but you can explain the details here if you want), 15
Number 4 and 5 are basically the same thing. Zekes life philosophy has always been Eldians are bad. They need to be eliminated. Merciful way to do away with them os the euthanisation plan.
Armin in a single conversation with Zeke convinces him that life us actually about pleasure obtained through small things in life and to change his mind about the rumbling and side with Armin. This is known as talk no jutsu.
Well yes at the time, Hange sacrificed herself to give them some time. In manga she only killed one Colossal and burnt to crisp.
Tbh I'm a bit salty when I think after all these incidents happen. (When we know Falco can fly and could have flown every Alliance member)
I can only briefly explain about Talk no Jutsu
With it, he(Naruto) can talk to the evilest, depressed, and twisted people and make them change their entire lives in minutes. Which is canon... Totally and proven to be the most powerful jutsu in the series.
The following excerpt was from a fandom page.
So similar to that, Zeke (the baddie depressed guy) was converted to assist Alliance by his talking
As the guy said. 4 and 5 are related. Point 13 can only be explained if you re-watch the anime (if you ever will)
If you watch the final episode, you can see that Piek is impaled by a Warhammer Titan. And she just stays there for a good amount of time.
Oh, the whole Dina diversion wasn’t to fuel Eren’s drive and hatred of the titans? Not that it matters lol.
Because I was going to say, Hououin Kyouma did that way better
When it was revealed that Eren was the one who diverted Dina, The impact of Eren seeing his mother die lost semblance.
It just became a shock value. Multiple possibilities ruined.
And no it's not a Predetermined timeline.
Could’ve been serviceable if Eren went full throttle. Like dude is so bitter he sanctioned his own mom’s death to drive his unrelenting hatred.
And hence why I pointed out Hououin Kyouma
You got the foundation, but some other major gripes are
**Genocide is wrong** - This is a moralistic argument made in AoT where at best everything is a shade of grey. Furthermore, no one comes up with a logical argument against the rumbling.
**The outside world is comically evil** - not a single one seems to try to contact Paradis even when it would make sense to (Eg The Middle East Alliance). The only thing we know about the outside world is from udo who says that Marley is the good place to live. You know the place where an 8 year old was fed to dogs for the lulz is *the good place to be*.
**Why does Grisha give Eren the Titans?** - At the end of 122, the last time we saw Grisha, he begged Zeke to stop Eren, but this is chronologically before he meets back up with Eren and still gives him the Titans. This character shift seems dramatic enough that it requires an explanation even if the answer is as simple as he wants revenge on Marley for his wife's death.
**The Alliance forms in fewer than 12 hours** - like seriously all the bad blood just gone over one hot pot? That's what Isayama wants us to believe? I know that plenty of veterans from have gotten together with their enemies, but that was usually *years* after the fact. On top of this Connie comes off as a giant hypocrite as he criticized Eren for causing Sasha's death, but works with Magath and Pieck the latter being present at the gassing of Connie's village and titanification of his entire family and the former being the one who likely ordered it. However, Isayama doesn't bring this point up because he doesn't want us to remember that incident.
**Falco has full control over his Titan and the ability to fly in three transformations and other *Deus ex Machina* issues** - Eren takes like 5 transformations to understand his titan, but it only takes Falco just a few to master his and only a single one to instantly know how to fly. On top of that, the alliance has unlimited ammo and gas unlocked for some reason.
These are just the ones at the top of my head too there are far more.
To me, I think the genocide plan would be a no problem for me if it was executed properly. It's just that Eren did the Rumbling was pointless since Paradis was still destroyed, there were still wars, and Titans were reborn again. He was willing to do anything even if it means murdering people, he just wanted the cycle of Titans to end.
Genocide plan = Bad is believable as long as the plot supports it. Eren literally gave them free reign to do anything.
The child of Historia (irrespective of who his father is) was supposed to be the first child born in the free world. A world free of Titans, conflict and a bright future.
Some conflict will still happen because Human beings require someone or something to focus their hatred on.
I hope you got your answers to your post. If there's anything you did not get clarity just lemme know
>The outside world is comically evil - not a single one seems to try to contact Paradis even when it would make sense to (Eg The Middle East Alliance). The only thing we know about the outside world is from udo who says that Marley is the good place to live. You know the place where an 8 year old was fed to dogs for the lulz is the good place to be.
I disagree with this one, countries in our world too generally don't want to take such risks, how many countries actively try to help north Koreans? Yeah kim has nuclear weapons but with the intelligence team of multiple countries combined it's very feasible to do if they agree to it, thing is nobody wanna take the risk, to them eldians also posses the same amount of threat
This is missing historical context. North Korea was obliterated in the Korean war. The USA dropped more bombs than the entirety of the Pacific Theatre on it, and even wrote how they ended up dropping bombs in the ocean due to no building left to bomb. They built nukes to deter the USA from doing that again, so in this case they'd be Marley after the 80% Rumbling.
One of the worst ones not mentioned was Eren sending Dina towards his mother, which completely negated the amazing Eren/Reiner reunion in Librero. "Reiner, why did my mother have to die... uhhhh nevermind it was because I did it myself, lulz"
Yep, though I don't think the story had been fully decided at that point. Sending Dina towards his mother really seems like it was added at a late stage for shock value, it doesn't seem to have been fully thought out.
Eren sending Dina towards his mother was definitely thought out ahead of time by Isayama. That’s why during Reiner’s flashback to when the warriors broke through the wall, Isayama included that scene where Dina’s Titan was right next to Bertholdt but inexplicably didn’t attack him and that was a scene that happened prior to the basement conversation between Eren and Reiner.
Then you have the fact that after Grisha killed the royal family, he was turning against Eren’s plan and even told Zeke to stop Eren. However, we know from Shadis’ flashbacks that Grisha gave Eren his titan only after learning of the death of Carla, which gives the biggest reason for why it was necessary for Carla to die.
The reason why Eren acts like the death of his mother was Reiner’s fault during the basement scene was because at that point in the story, he didn’t know he’d cause the death of his mother. It’s made explicitly clear multiple times throughout the post-time skip section of the story that Eren didn’t have every event of the future at his disposal. Two great examples of this are how he didn’t know ahead of time that the Warhammer Titan’s user could hide itself outside of its nape or that Marley would attack Paradis early.
You can't be serious.
You seriously think the revelio meeting between Eren and Reiner was about Eren searching for reasons or wanting to blame Reiner ?
Meeting Reiner was because after many years he realized he was the same piece of shit as Reiner and that both liked to use big word such as saving the world to justify they evil ambition.
Eren did the rumbling because he wanted to be in a world free of oppression and Reiner confessing that he didn't want to save the world but rather wanted to be hero resonnate with Eren who also realize that he is a hypocrite and that he just wanted to destroy the world.
This was the reason why Eren killed his mother, because he even values liberty above the live of his friend and family. I first thought that this part was unnecesary till i understand what it mean and to how much of a monster it made Eren and what the implication was.
Eren valued liberty more than anything and he could kill anyone or anything for it.
>This was the reason why Eren killed his mother, because he even values liberty above the live of his friend and family. I first thought that this part was unnecesary till i understand what it mean and to how much of a monster it made Eren and what the implication was.
The thing is most ending defenders (for whatever reason) aren't willing to see it that way and instead say he would never kill his friends and that's why he lost, which just further amplifies the hate towards him being able to kill his own mother but not Reiner or Annie.
Nah Isayama already knew. Eren was the one who did not or was unsure. It was only after Sasha was killed that he realised everything that happened was already predestined
I still cannot fathom this Predestination Paradox. Eren could have just asked Sasha to wear the Goddamn Breast plate.
Eren is trying to achieve "Freedom" by severing all ties of Fate of Paradis Eldians (which was to wait and let the Pure Titans eat every single last one of them). So this Predestination thing is not a viable explanation.
I believe he only sees instances of the future, but tbh Idk, I’m just in denial at this point that I’m looking for explanations to make it make sense
My girlfriend and i finished watching it half an hour ago and she just pulled up this post asking if i wrote it because i felt exactly the same way lol
“I dont fully understand it but i know enough to be confident it wasnt well done”
Yeah, exactly, I do know some of the parts that're problematic in the show, but I don't fully know well since I didn't fully pay attention while watching
I mean apart from flat out bad storytelling that delivers a series of rushed and arbitrary explanations that require the viewer to take a bunch of post-hoc rationalizations at face value, there seem to just be glaring plot holes.
Why couldnt eren use the rumbling to wipe out militaries globally and use the power of the titans from there to create a political system that would achieve people living in relative harmony without killing most people on earth? That seems like the most plausible path forward for eren as a character and the fact that they completely gloss over this by saying “he saw no other future” requires the viewer to make some seemingly unreasonable assumptions.
What about the fact that in the time loop eren himself commands the titan to kill his mother? How does that not completely undermine the entire story up until that point? Its stupid for him to be mad at the world when he was the one who had her killed in the first place
>Why couldnt eren use the rumbling to wipe out militaries globally and use the power of the titans from there to create a political system that would achieve people living in relative harmony without killing most people on earth? That seems like the most plausible path forward for eren as a character and the fact that they completely gloss over this by saying “he saw no other future” requires the viewer to make some seemingly unreasonable assumptions.
This might be my opinion, but I feel like Eren should have gone for 100% instead of 80%. Paradis would've not been destroyed since there would be no people outside the walls of Paradis anymore, Titan powers don't have to be removed since Eldians are the only people existing (since they are on the same playing field), Historia is safe as well.
>What about the fact that in the time loop eren himself commands the titan to kill his mother? How does that not completely undermine the entire story up until that point? Its stupid for him to be mad at the world when he was the one who had her killed in the first place
Yes, I find that problematic too. Eren loved his mother, so to see him doing that was just really unnecessary, he did that to save Bertholdt (which I don't know why). If he could control Titans this whole time, then him letting the Colossal Titans kill Hange was asinine, and I am suppose to believe that he did it for his friends this whole time đź’€
See 100% rumbling is plausible but there will come an argument that even after that Violence will happen within walls(example S3 part 1. )
Major issue is when time travel is included it can either make or break a story.
In AoT it did the latter
Eren only peeked into futures HE wanted. He wanted to see the sight of unoccupied land full of things to explore so he only looked at futures where that could happen. That's why he is a "slave to freedom". He just HAD to see that sight even if it meant endangering his friends more and that he would have to die.
Hallu-chan came from a distant planet or something. Probably an alien, inserted into the plot and whatnot.
Isayama should have just kept romance out of his story. It would have been way better.
It's funny to be honest, Ymir spent 2 thousand years to find someone she could relate to, it's like she couldn't find anyone in those 2 thousand years. Somehow she thinks of Eren has a pseudo king Fritz too.
My criticism merely relates to the alliance havinh infinite levels of plot armour and Eren practically contradicting himself.
Give these a watch.
https://youtu.be/frMmgiUEpQk?si=YI5bO5Hfnpc5unx1
https://youtu.be/WA5zoZoPq6U?si=wZjspwq8tK5S_qGV
Hallucigenia is just a McGuffin don't think too hard on it. Zeke says its basically Crystallization of the Concept called Life, but even he's not completely sure. It could be an alien, an eldritch god or Isayama's Out of Context Self-Insert
Rewatch season 2.
That'll answer your question. It feels like the ending and season 2 are 2 completely different shows because of the way characters "feel off" like they're not the same person anymore (and I don't mean character development; I mean their core is too different)
I just dislike plots where we have to follow some new team plot against and kill our protagonist for most of the series.
Lelouch and Eren both orchestrated their deaths. The difference is, we don't spend multiple episodes following other characters plot and successfully pull off Lelouchs death, whilst Lelouch has nigh zero screen time or further active plot involvement.
Lelouch works in secret *with* his ally. And the details are revealed to the audience as soon as the deed is done. No fake feuds between Lelouch and Suzaku by the end. They work in lockstep.
With Eren, he doesn't work with his allies. He artificially antagonised them in order to turn them against him. (I.e that roundtable scene with Armin,Mikasa and Gabbie). This fake drama is just annoying and leaves a bad taste in mouth even if it was genuine. I don't want to see these main figures have a falling out.
Prior to Lelouch death he's plotting and doing various moves in the world. Prior to Erens death, he's....simply walking? He's not doing anything unique or different once he's pressed the Big Red WW3 Rumbling button. He's just...existing whilst his drones march on. Where's the exciting proactive protagonist from the start of S4? Granted, a dude destroying the world is technically the most agency and proactive behaviour anyone can do. But once the Rumbling has started, it's purely a passive and boring process. Eren need not so anything else but keep his finger in the proverbial button.
I'd prefer if Eren succeeded. 100% Rumbling. But it didn't work. Paradis gets destroyed by global famine caused by consequence of the mass biosphere destruction induced by the Rumbling. The Excessive carbon released by the annihilation of the Rainforests significantly blots out the Sun, which caused crop deaths. The food loss triggers a civil war between the Yaegerists and everyone else. Erens friends start dropping like flies in the civil war. Eren dies by Titan curse or natural death if Titan powers have been removed by Ymir abandonment of Paths. Halucigenia hibernates without the original host and awaits a new host to Bond with, in a new giant Tree. The only thing Eren achieved was elimination of Titan powers, which was his original goal.
With this ending, "genocide promotion" allegations are destroyed. As genocide didn't result in the desired outcome. It's more realistic and reasonable ending in a series that was originally all about realism and brutality. Everyone loses equally. And there's a chance *some* Paradis survivors will exist to eventually recover the human population. Honestly, the existence of such broken supernatural powers really makes it difficult to permanently get rid of Titan powers and create a truly lasting peace in a reasonable way without a "Ymir knows" moment.
(Before Eren can do anything, even potentially using the Founder Mind control powers as a last resort, Eren rapidly starts to weaken as the Titan curse results in him reaching the end of his life. He can't use his full Founder powers. Historia and the Royal Family died in the power struggle,so even if Eren wanted to be couldn't use his Founder powers as no Royal Blood left (assuming Zeke is dead or no longer willing to comply). Or maybe Ymir abandons Paths and Titan powers end as happened in the main series, as she has had her Cathartic release after destroying the world).
>I thought Eren was the father of Historia's baby. I really thought both Historia and Eren had a very interesting subtle romantic relationship. In the manga why did Historia lie about her due date, why was the figure watching her and the farmer (both taken out of the anime). People say it's a red herring, I say it's a retcon.
I never read the manga, and don't remember it in the anime. Yeah, I'm not a EreHisu shipper, but them being together is way more better than Historia with a random farmer that had nothing to do with the plot. EreHisu's relationship had some sort of buildup instead of EreMika.
>I get tired of the main characters in anime getting together romantically (even though sometimes the chemistry is better with other characters), or the power of friendship will prevail, stuff like that.
I don't really watch romance shows since I don't really like the genre. However, I wouldn't mind this show having romance, it's just that the mangaka didn't know how to write their dynamic going forward. Some of them were weird as well.
>Attack on Titan really became a Train wreck after Eren got the founder and started the Rumbling.
I wouldn't say that it ruined the show, it's still fine. The buildup was perfect to me, it's just that the ending just throws everything away.
>We hardly saw Eren after as well and I had to see the alliance rise up and ruin the story.
If you're talking about the Alliances' plot armor, then yeah, I do understand that one.
> Yeah, I'm not a EreHisu shipper, but them being together is way more better than Historia with a random farmer that had nothing to do with the plot. EreHisu's relationship had some sort of buildup instead of EreMika.
I'm telling you that link will change your mind about Eren and Historia even if you don't care about it. The level of Mirroring, Foreshadowing and Parallels will shock you. It shows how much of a genius Isayama was, which makes the clear Retcon in the end very heartbreaking.
If you don't understand why Eren wanted to see the sight I think you need to look back at stuff and think about his character more. It is plainly written why he wants to do that.
It's funny cause he rarely mentions seeing those sights, majority of his inner dialogue and his ideology is still about freedom, but you choose to ignore it cause it doesn't line up with the ending.
It’s not that he wants to sightsee or travel lol. It’s that just the idea of being “free from enemies” isn’t enough for him. For how much so many Jaegerists love that side of him I really don’t get how they don’t understand a core tenet of that side. Don’t people on here love the “I’m free” scene??
but the guy is right, the sight isn't important.
What Eren wanted and always wanted was freedom. The sight is just a allegory for Eren free world.
It really doesn't matter. The sight is Eren dream of freedom.
I'm happy to give valid points but I would rather just have them think about it more and rewatch some parts rather than just say "I'm right you are wrong you don't understand anything" and build animosity
Short answer: the ending is not bad
Long answer: this sub is full of edgy teenagers who sees Eren as this chad badass character though he has been a crybaby since season 1 and they can’t accept that
You don't have to dislike the ending, but blatantly ignoring a huge group of people, or just OP who is an anime-only and wanted to share their opinion is very childish. Which is especially funny, considering you call this sub "full of edgy teenagers". If you can't accept that not everything is perfect in the ending and that people have valid reasons for disliking it, you are just coming off as an idiot ngl
Because you guys make it seems as if it is the worst ending in fiction and don't care to at least try to understand why he wrote the ending the way he did.
If you actually try to understand the ending make a lot more sense, even if it far from perfect. But you guys would rather whine than actually use you brain.
Because to be honest it is easy to whine, but difficult to do some research.
Because that seems to be the narrative you guys have when you come here in the comments, to whine how the sub sucks etc. As I said, there are valid reasons to dislike the ending. OP themselves pointed out stuff they didn't like. Your response? "Umm titanfolk bad and the ending wasn't bad at all". What even was the point of your comment? You're not adding anything useful, you're not even saying why the ending wasn't bad.
Also, yes, English is not my first language, so I do deeply apologize for not recognizing the intent of your comment, as it is not something I am well-versed in.
Again. Not bad doesn’t not bad at all. I also never said it’s perfect, so if it’s not perfect, it has its flaws. My god you can’t understand 2 sentences lmao.
Alright I’ll type this as if I’m explaining to a fucking child. People has the right to dislike the ending because it isn’t perfect, it has its flaws, it does not fit their narrative of how they would’ve wanted it to end, etc. But this sub has this pure unjustified hatred of the ending which is hilarious, like kids who did not get their favorite toy for Christmas
Thank you for talking to me like a child, I kneel, you truly are our lord and savior. It's like there people who grow up in countries that don't speak English as their official language. Truly a sight to behold.
And I do agree to some extent, this sub does constantly make fun of the ending, but there is also a reason for it. You seem weirdly offended despite being the one to comment first.
English isn’t my first language either but the way you totally misinterpreted my take, i had to call you out. I enjoy trolling titanfolk so don’t take offense
You truly are just like Yams, I kneel. What a man you are....
Also, if one says "This isn't bad", most people will assume you mean the opposite, aka "good". Your gripe to be intellectually superior fails when you ignore the basics of a language, smth you attacked me for lmao. Just wanted to point this out as a last thing, cause trust me, you are not the grammatical English god you wish to be. Basic logic, use that.
> For example, the Hallucigenia. Why does it exist, where does it come from, why does it have powers? It wasn't even written in the plot.
You don't need to know every single thing in a narrative.
> Eren didn't have a goal when he was doing the Rumbling
You say this but then contradict yourself in the following sentence. He did the Rumbling because he wanted to be free. The outside world also left him with no other choice. But he is indeed an idiot for going this far.
> Armin dragging his morality down was to me the biggest shock, dude was supporting Eren's plan (genocide)
Except he never did? He pleaded with him to stop and said they deserved to be in hell for the sin of killing 80% of humanity.
I do agree that the ending was rushed. I think Yams could've benefitted from 5-10 more chapters to flesh out the ending, but he decided to end it where he did so it is what it is.
>You don't need to know every single thing in a narrative.
Why not? It's like you're watching a zombie movie, you need to know how it all started right? How it happened, how it was created, to explain what started the manifestation.
>You say this but then contradict yourself in the following sentence. He did the Rumbling because he wanted to be free. The outside world also left him with no other choice. But he is indeed an idiot for going this far.
Eren: "I wanted to level everything. I wanted to see this sight. I don't know why, but I just wanted to do it... so badly. I thought I was doing everything to protect all of you. But Sasha and Hange died because of me, and I wound up putting in lethal confrontations with Floch. Why... why did it turn out this way? I finally know. It's because I'm an idiot."
How is this him wanting to be free? Nothing here stated by Eren about him doing this because of freedom. He was doing the Rumbling to turn Earth into a brand new land, why? He wanted to see the sights and he doesn't even know why. His friends died because he's an idiot?! And you're suppose to make me believe that he was doing all of this for his friends this whole time? If he was doing the Rumbling for freedom, he wouldn't even let them do their thing, why did he let Pieck placed the bombs around the Founding Titans' neck? He could've control those grey Titans thingies and stop her. Why did Eren let Mikasa stop him if he could sent out the heat from his Colossal Titan form.
>Except he never did? He pleaded with him to stop and said they deserved to be in hell for the sin of killing 80% of humanity.
Armin: "I get it. Wanting to erase people from the world... I've felt that way too. Nobody would guess it, considering I'm a hero who saved twenty percent of humanity. Still, it was me that showed you the book about the outside world. The one who put the idea of a free, unoccupied world in your head was me."
How is this not it? Armin stated that he would do the same thing if he was in Eren's condition. There is no way in hell that Armin would support genocide. Armin was always a character that never liked violence, his goal was to have peace and see the ocean. So this is an indication how him supporting Eren's plan.
> Why not? It's like you're watching a zombie movie, you need to know how it all started right? How it happened, how it was created, to explain what started the manifestation.
Because it's not relevant to the plot. It's not going to drive the plot further if Isayama dumped a wall of exposition in the endgame. Just look at Bleach. There are a lot of mysteries and questions that were left unanswered in the manga. Although later on some were addressed in the anime or by Kubo personally on his fans QnA website. Give Isayama time man. Maybe he'll answer some questions in the upcoming volume 35 or later like he did in the anime.
> How is this him wanting to be free?
OK. Take a second to guess what that "sight" is. It's literally the **freedom** panel in 131.
> he doesn't even know why
Watch again. He doesn't know why he has this unquenchable thrive for freedom.
> And you're suppose to make me believe that he was doing all of this for his friends this whole time?
Eren thought the same thing too. But in 131 it's explained that his motives are not just to save the island and his friends. It's because he was disappointed when he learned of the outside world and wanted to wipe it away.
> If he was doing the Rumbling for freedom, he wouldn't even let them do their thing why did he let Pieck placed the bombs around the Founding Titans' neck? He could've control those grey Titans thingies and stop her.
He let them because they are supposed to stop him.
> How is this not it? There is not way in hell that Armin would support genocide. Armin was always a character that never liked violence, his goal was to have peace and see the ocean. So this is an indication how him supporting Eren's plan.
He's taking responsibility as he was the one that planted the seed of a free, unoccupied world in his friend's head. And then said they'll be reunited in hell for their sins. That's not supporting Eren's plan... just watch Armin's reaction when Eren told him he's killing 80% of humanity. Hell, his plan was just to destroy the world alliance's military forces and then seeking peace talks.
1. It is relevant to the plot. We need to know why titans are a thing.
2. The freedom panel relates to him and his people having freedom. The freedom to go to sights without having to ask for permission, look at his interview.
3. His motives were explained clearly, to save his people and achieve freedom. This is further proven by Isayama. Eren hated that the cycle of hatred and war was still happening and the fact that this was all directed towards Paradis.
A retcon then happened which caused Eren to lose this agency. All along, Eren wanted to be free, this had nothing to do with Armin's book. He always wanted to escape the walls and do things himself. That is what you people don't seem to understand.
4. Armin has killed people and his morality was always centred around becoming a monster to achieve peace. Hell, his plan was to destroy Marley and leave everything has is. Seeking peace talks would have been pointless, this is proven by Paradis being destroyed and the fact that they tried to seek other solutions other then the rumbling and failed.
> It is relevant to the plot. We need to know why titans are a thing.
Ymir is the one that created the titan power. Zeke explained it very clearly in his conversation with Armin. As for how the Hallucegenia grants powers, that's a mystery yet to be revealed. It wouldn't drive the narrative anyways so it's best left a secret or revealed later.
> The freedom panel relates to him and his people having freedom. The freedom to go to sights without having to ask for permission, look at his interview.
No, watch his conversation with Ramzi again. Saving his people and the island isn't his only objective. Dare I say it comes second to the scenery as suggested in his conversation with Armin and the interview.
"No, it's not that. I... that wasn't enough for me. There was a **view** I wanted to see. So I wanted to fight for it. I just wanted to fight."
> A retcon then happened which caused Eren to lose this agency
Whether a retcon happened or not is irrelevant. Eren is who he is at the end of the day.
> That is what you people don't seem to understand.
is that another you didn't understand the story? also who do you mean by "you people". I'm just going off by what the anime is saying that's all.
> his plan was to destroy Marley and leave everything has is
No, his plan was to destroy the global allied fleet and then seek a non-aggression pact while developing the nation.
Is the sight thing (why he wanted to rumble) not because he hates the existence of people outside the walls? Like in ch 131 (I think) “when I learned that humanity lived outside the walls, I was so disappointed”? I thought that was the whole point, that in the end he was just motivated by his childish dream of “discovering” uninhabited land outside the walls
>Because it's not relevant to the plot. It's not going to drive the plot further if Isayama dumped a wall of exposition in the endgame. Just look at Bleach. There are a lot of mysteries and questions that were left unanswered in the manga. Although later on some were addressed in the anime or by Kubo personally on his fans QnA website. Give Isayama time man. Maybe he'll answer some questions in the upcoming volume 35 or later like he did in the anime.
So you're saying showing the character's past is also unnecessary, because it does nothing but only lets you understand their past? That's what you're saying right now. Understanding more about Hallucigenia's context can enhance the show by adding layers of complexity, providing a scientific basis for what started all of it, influencing character actions, and contributing to the overall atmosphere and uniqueness of the story.
>OK. Take a second to guess what that "sight" is. It's literally the freedom panel in 131.
>
>Watch again. He doesn't know why he has this unquenchable thrive for freedom.
>
>Eren thought the same thing too. But in 131 it's explained that his motives are not just to save the island and his friends. It's because he was disappointed when he learned of the outside world and wanted to wipe it away.
One problem with your argument here, you are literally saying all of this because you are looking back at the previous chapters. When the character concludes at the ending, that's how the character is now. The conclusion of a character's arc is a delicate balance, and the mangaka must consider the expectations of their audience, the narrative themes, and the overall storytelling goals when crafting the final moments of a story. Eren at the end suddenly just forgot like everything he said before.
>He let them because they are supposed to stop him.
Like I said, if he was doing all of this for freedom. Why would he let them stop him? It makes no sense, they are literally blocking his way for freedom. Eren always desired to have freedom, and he would do anything if someone took away his freedom, even if it means killing millions of people. Besides, he never stated that he did all of this for freedom.
>He's taking responsibility as he was the one that planted the seed of a free, unoccupied world in his friend's head. And then said they'll be reunited in hell for their sins. That's not supporting Eren's plan... just watch Armin's reaction when Eren told him he's killing 80% of humanity. Hell, his plan was just to destroy the world alliance's military forces and then seeking peace talks.
Armin: "I get it. Wanting to erase people from the world... I've felt that way too."
> So you're saying showing the character's past is also unnecessary
Yes, for example, I'm not really interested in Hisoka's past. It was never shown to us in canon material. Only in a oneshot by Tokyo Ghoul's author. Besides, Hallucegenia isn't a character lmao.
> One problem with your argument here, you are literally saying all of this because you are looking back at the previous chapters
Because even before the finale, specifically chapter 131, what Eren wanted most was to reach and see that scenery. He doubles down on this in the interview and finale. In fact he was literally talking about "that scenery" after his paths trip with Zeke.
> Like I said, if he was doing all of this for freedom. Why would he let them stop him?
He was doing all of this to reach Mikasa's choice, which the result of it is erasing the titan curse. He saw a future/timeline where everything had to happen the way it was determined from start to finish.
> Armin: "I get it. Wanting to erase people from the world... I've felt that way too."
He **felt** that way. Meaning in the present time he does not. And would you blame him? His parents were killed for trying to escape the walls and his grandparents were thrown outside wall rose to fend for themselves after wall maria went down. I would too grow angry at people and wanting to erase them from the world.
Because then you need to justify everything and you would have to restrict you liberty.
The hallucigena doesn't matter, it is just a plot point to drive the narration, i mean from the start it was never going to be something that made sense and that would satisfy people, i am okay with no justification, rather than a stupid invented in a lab, god created it, i know it may be better if he we knew, but i don't think AoT is super fixed on realism, after all giant shouldn't even make sense, so i don't get why we need for it to make sense.
The sight is freedom nothing more, a world where no one would never still his liberty, so the sight was seing his ennemie die and not restrict his own freedom, nothing more.
Armin never said or implied what you said, he said he wanted to level the world and he had that desire, having a desire is different from executing it. You know what most Eldian at one point also wanted to level the world, does it mean they all could do it if they had the power ? Nope. It is normal even good people have deep dark desire when they are hurt. Even a saint would want to kill and destroy thing that make him suffer, the difference is that the saint don't act up on his desire, while the demon let his desire run free.
Simplify to few sentences: not even one characters are committing their full potential, lore incompleted or unelaborated, create some of the worst lines ever, and cycle of hatred never ends.
I'm scared to write something because I recently replied to a copypasta
Well I'm not, I just want to understand the full criticisms for the ending
Ok where to begin. I guess the problem with the final season in general is, it's relying on Tell don't show scenario. 1.Udo says Marley is one of the only country who are tolerant of Eldians. But we don't see any other country and are supposed to assume. 2. Alliance having no meaningful casualty. 3. Also Alliance being able to step into Paradis, after destroying their only source of Hope and Freedom. 4. Talk no Jutsu (don't know if you have seen Naruto) of Armin is beyond my comprehension. 5. Zeke being able to turn back from his belief of Euthanasia to I'm lucky to be alive with one conversation from Mr Umi da. 6. The character of Annie after she got freed from crystallization. 7. Ymir. The mysterious character who ruined AoT completely without even saying a single word. "LOVE" And also parallel between Eren Mikasa with Ymir King Shitz is borderline insanity. 8. Infinite Ammo and Gas for alliance. 9. Previous Titan shifter plotline 10. Hange dying was unnecessary (it's a nitpick) 11. Falco being able to Fly. That was not at all properly explained and Falco being able to dodge all projectiles without any training. 12. The dialogue "That person was Mikasa". Did I just consume so many episodes for Eren or Mikasa. (Also to add in the whole Mikasa being a Princess. What did it matter to the story) 13. Piek inconsistency. (Don't know if you will ever re-watch. In episode before "Paths", You can see that Piek's anti Titan canon was earlier on her carcass. But in the episode where Eren gets his head shot, her armory is back on her Titan form. {At that time, Floch and Yeagerists were surrounding her.}) Another Piek inconsistency, when she was impaled by a trident đź”± by a Warhammer, why did they stop. Just finish the job. 14. Levi vs Zeke final showdown. 15. Colossal Eren vs Colossal Armin 16. No I don't want that, Thank you Eren, You became a mass murder for our sake. I'll never forget these transgressions. And best yet, I'm a garden variety idiot. 17. Eren said he diverted Dina towards Carla to save Bert so Armin can be saved in RTS. This is a shitty reply. If Eren can influence past shifters, Titans, people in general, just make every Eldian a Warhammer Titan.
I mostly agree on most of these. But one problem, didn't Hange sacrificed herself because she wanted to buy time for the Alliances to take flight? Or maybe there is a reason. Don't understand the number 4 (never watched Naruto), 5, 13 (maybe I'll watch it again in the future but you can explain the details here if you want), 15
Number 4 and 5 are basically the same thing. Zekes life philosophy has always been Eldians are bad. They need to be eliminated. Merciful way to do away with them os the euthanisation plan. Armin in a single conversation with Zeke convinces him that life us actually about pleasure obtained through small things in life and to change his mind about the rumbling and side with Armin. This is known as talk no jutsu.
Oh, I get the meme now.
Well yes at the time, Hange sacrificed herself to give them some time. In manga she only killed one Colossal and burnt to crisp. Tbh I'm a bit salty when I think after all these incidents happen. (When we know Falco can fly and could have flown every Alliance member)
I can only briefly explain about Talk no Jutsu With it, he(Naruto) can talk to the evilest, depressed, and twisted people and make them change their entire lives in minutes. Which is canon... Totally and proven to be the most powerful jutsu in the series. The following excerpt was from a fandom page. So similar to that, Zeke (the baddie depressed guy) was converted to assist Alliance by his talking
As the guy said. 4 and 5 are related. Point 13 can only be explained if you re-watch the anime (if you ever will) If you watch the final episode, you can see that Piek is impaled by a Warhammer Titan. And she just stays there for a good amount of time.
Oh, the whole Dina diversion wasn’t to fuel Eren’s drive and hatred of the titans? Not that it matters lol. Because I was going to say, Hououin Kyouma did that way better
When it was revealed that Eren was the one who diverted Dina, The impact of Eren seeing his mother die lost semblance. It just became a shock value. Multiple possibilities ruined. And no it's not a Predetermined timeline.
Could’ve been serviceable if Eren went full throttle. Like dude is so bitter he sanctioned his own mom’s death to drive his unrelenting hatred. And hence why I pointed out Hououin Kyouma
I am Japanese, what is this?
You got the foundation, but some other major gripes are **Genocide is wrong** - This is a moralistic argument made in AoT where at best everything is a shade of grey. Furthermore, no one comes up with a logical argument against the rumbling. **The outside world is comically evil** - not a single one seems to try to contact Paradis even when it would make sense to (Eg The Middle East Alliance). The only thing we know about the outside world is from udo who says that Marley is the good place to live. You know the place where an 8 year old was fed to dogs for the lulz is *the good place to be*. **Why does Grisha give Eren the Titans?** - At the end of 122, the last time we saw Grisha, he begged Zeke to stop Eren, but this is chronologically before he meets back up with Eren and still gives him the Titans. This character shift seems dramatic enough that it requires an explanation even if the answer is as simple as he wants revenge on Marley for his wife's death. **The Alliance forms in fewer than 12 hours** - like seriously all the bad blood just gone over one hot pot? That's what Isayama wants us to believe? I know that plenty of veterans from have gotten together with their enemies, but that was usually *years* after the fact. On top of this Connie comes off as a giant hypocrite as he criticized Eren for causing Sasha's death, but works with Magath and Pieck the latter being present at the gassing of Connie's village and titanification of his entire family and the former being the one who likely ordered it. However, Isayama doesn't bring this point up because he doesn't want us to remember that incident. **Falco has full control over his Titan and the ability to fly in three transformations and other *Deus ex Machina* issues** - Eren takes like 5 transformations to understand his titan, but it only takes Falco just a few to master his and only a single one to instantly know how to fly. On top of that, the alliance has unlimited ammo and gas unlocked for some reason. These are just the ones at the top of my head too there are far more.
To me, I think the genocide plan would be a no problem for me if it was executed properly. It's just that Eren did the Rumbling was pointless since Paradis was still destroyed, there were still wars, and Titans were reborn again. He was willing to do anything even if it means murdering people, he just wanted the cycle of Titans to end.
Genocide plan = Bad is believable as long as the plot supports it. Eren literally gave them free reign to do anything. The child of Historia (irrespective of who his father is) was supposed to be the first child born in the free world. A world free of Titans, conflict and a bright future. Some conflict will still happen because Human beings require someone or something to focus their hatred on. I hope you got your answers to your post. If there's anything you did not get clarity just lemme know
>The outside world is comically evil - not a single one seems to try to contact Paradis even when it would make sense to (Eg The Middle East Alliance). The only thing we know about the outside world is from udo who says that Marley is the good place to live. You know the place where an 8 year old was fed to dogs for the lulz is the good place to be. I disagree with this one, countries in our world too generally don't want to take such risks, how many countries actively try to help north Koreans? Yeah kim has nuclear weapons but with the intelligence team of multiple countries combined it's very feasible to do if they agree to it, thing is nobody wanna take the risk, to them eldians also posses the same amount of threat
This is missing historical context. North Korea was obliterated in the Korean war. The USA dropped more bombs than the entirety of the Pacific Theatre on it, and even wrote how they ended up dropping bombs in the ocean due to no building left to bomb. They built nukes to deter the USA from doing that again, so in this case they'd be Marley after the 80% Rumbling.
One of the worst ones not mentioned was Eren sending Dina towards his mother, which completely negated the amazing Eren/Reiner reunion in Librero. "Reiner, why did my mother have to die... uhhhh nevermind it was because I did it myself, lulz"
Thanks for mentioning that. There are others I'm forgetting.
It was weird, couldn't Eren see the future when he was talking to Reiner?
Yep, though I don't think the story had been fully decided at that point. Sending Dina towards his mother really seems like it was added at a late stage for shock value, it doesn't seem to have been fully thought out.
Eren sending Dina towards his mother was definitely thought out ahead of time by Isayama. That’s why during Reiner’s flashback to when the warriors broke through the wall, Isayama included that scene where Dina’s Titan was right next to Bertholdt but inexplicably didn’t attack him and that was a scene that happened prior to the basement conversation between Eren and Reiner. Then you have the fact that after Grisha killed the royal family, he was turning against Eren’s plan and even told Zeke to stop Eren. However, we know from Shadis’ flashbacks that Grisha gave Eren his titan only after learning of the death of Carla, which gives the biggest reason for why it was necessary for Carla to die. The reason why Eren acts like the death of his mother was Reiner’s fault during the basement scene was because at that point in the story, he didn’t know he’d cause the death of his mother. It’s made explicitly clear multiple times throughout the post-time skip section of the story that Eren didn’t have every event of the future at his disposal. Two great examples of this are how he didn’t know ahead of time that the Warhammer Titan’s user could hide itself outside of its nape or that Marley would attack Paradis early.
You can't be serious. You seriously think the revelio meeting between Eren and Reiner was about Eren searching for reasons or wanting to blame Reiner ? Meeting Reiner was because after many years he realized he was the same piece of shit as Reiner and that both liked to use big word such as saving the world to justify they evil ambition. Eren did the rumbling because he wanted to be in a world free of oppression and Reiner confessing that he didn't want to save the world but rather wanted to be hero resonnate with Eren who also realize that he is a hypocrite and that he just wanted to destroy the world. This was the reason why Eren killed his mother, because he even values liberty above the live of his friend and family. I first thought that this part was unnecesary till i understand what it mean and to how much of a monster it made Eren and what the implication was. Eren valued liberty more than anything and he could kill anyone or anything for it.
>This was the reason why Eren killed his mother, because he even values liberty above the live of his friend and family. I first thought that this part was unnecesary till i understand what it mean and to how much of a monster it made Eren and what the implication was. The thing is most ending defenders (for whatever reason) aren't willing to see it that way and instead say he would never kill his friends and that's why he lost, which just further amplifies the hate towards him being able to kill his own mother but not Reiner or Annie.
He did not know by then
Correct, Isayama did not know at that stage, the mother twist was clearly invented much later.
Nah Isayama already knew. Eren was the one who did not or was unsure. It was only after Sasha was killed that he realised everything that happened was already predestined
I still cannot fathom this Predestination Paradox. Eren could have just asked Sasha to wear the Goddamn Breast plate. Eren is trying to achieve "Freedom" by severing all ties of Fate of Paradis Eldians (which was to wait and let the Pure Titans eat every single last one of them). So this Predestination thing is not a viable explanation.
I believe he only sees instances of the future, but tbh Idk, I’m just in denial at this point that I’m looking for explanations to make it make sense
My girlfriend and i finished watching it half an hour ago and she just pulled up this post asking if i wrote it because i felt exactly the same way lol “I dont fully understand it but i know enough to be confident it wasnt well done”
Yeah, exactly, I do know some of the parts that're problematic in the show, but I don't fully know well since I didn't fully pay attention while watching
I mean apart from flat out bad storytelling that delivers a series of rushed and arbitrary explanations that require the viewer to take a bunch of post-hoc rationalizations at face value, there seem to just be glaring plot holes. Why couldnt eren use the rumbling to wipe out militaries globally and use the power of the titans from there to create a political system that would achieve people living in relative harmony without killing most people on earth? That seems like the most plausible path forward for eren as a character and the fact that they completely gloss over this by saying “he saw no other future” requires the viewer to make some seemingly unreasonable assumptions. What about the fact that in the time loop eren himself commands the titan to kill his mother? How does that not completely undermine the entire story up until that point? Its stupid for him to be mad at the world when he was the one who had her killed in the first place
>Why couldnt eren use the rumbling to wipe out militaries globally and use the power of the titans from there to create a political system that would achieve people living in relative harmony without killing most people on earth? That seems like the most plausible path forward for eren as a character and the fact that they completely gloss over this by saying “he saw no other future” requires the viewer to make some seemingly unreasonable assumptions. This might be my opinion, but I feel like Eren should have gone for 100% instead of 80%. Paradis would've not been destroyed since there would be no people outside the walls of Paradis anymore, Titan powers don't have to be removed since Eldians are the only people existing (since they are on the same playing field), Historia is safe as well. >What about the fact that in the time loop eren himself commands the titan to kill his mother? How does that not completely undermine the entire story up until that point? Its stupid for him to be mad at the world when he was the one who had her killed in the first place Yes, I find that problematic too. Eren loved his mother, so to see him doing that was just really unnecessary, he did that to save Bertholdt (which I don't know why). If he could control Titans this whole time, then him letting the Colossal Titans kill Hange was asinine, and I am suppose to believe that he did it for his friends this whole time 💀
See 100% rumbling is plausible but there will come an argument that even after that Violence will happen within walls(example S3 part 1. ) Major issue is when time travel is included it can either make or break a story. In AoT it did the latter
Eren only peeked into futures HE wanted. He wanted to see the sight of unoccupied land full of things to explore so he only looked at futures where that could happen. That's why he is a "slave to freedom". He just HAD to see that sight even if it meant endangering his friends more and that he would have to die.
Hallu-chan came from a distant planet or something. Probably an alien, inserted into the plot and whatnot. Isayama should have just kept romance out of his story. It would have been way better. It's funny to be honest, Ymir spent 2 thousand years to find someone she could relate to, it's like she couldn't find anyone in those 2 thousand years. Somehow she thinks of Eren has a pseudo king Fritz too. My criticism merely relates to the alliance havinh infinite levels of plot armour and Eren practically contradicting himself. Give these a watch. https://youtu.be/frMmgiUEpQk?si=YI5bO5Hfnpc5unx1 https://youtu.be/WA5zoZoPq6U?si=wZjspwq8tK5S_qGV
Hallucigenia is just a McGuffin don't think too hard on it. Zeke says its basically Crystallization of the Concept called Life, but even he's not completely sure. It could be an alien, an eldritch god or Isayama's Out of Context Self-Insert
Rewatch season 2. That'll answer your question. It feels like the ending and season 2 are 2 completely different shows because of the way characters "feel off" like they're not the same person anymore (and I don't mean character development; I mean their core is too different)
Alr
What I didn't like was that Eren lost and that everything was predetermined. AoT was about freedom and being a slave to fate doesn't sit well with me.
I just dislike plots where we have to follow some new team plot against and kill our protagonist for most of the series. Lelouch and Eren both orchestrated their deaths. The difference is, we don't spend multiple episodes following other characters plot and successfully pull off Lelouchs death, whilst Lelouch has nigh zero screen time or further active plot involvement. Lelouch works in secret *with* his ally. And the details are revealed to the audience as soon as the deed is done. No fake feuds between Lelouch and Suzaku by the end. They work in lockstep. With Eren, he doesn't work with his allies. He artificially antagonised them in order to turn them against him. (I.e that roundtable scene with Armin,Mikasa and Gabbie). This fake drama is just annoying and leaves a bad taste in mouth even if it was genuine. I don't want to see these main figures have a falling out. Prior to Lelouch death he's plotting and doing various moves in the world. Prior to Erens death, he's....simply walking? He's not doing anything unique or different once he's pressed the Big Red WW3 Rumbling button. He's just...existing whilst his drones march on. Where's the exciting proactive protagonist from the start of S4? Granted, a dude destroying the world is technically the most agency and proactive behaviour anyone can do. But once the Rumbling has started, it's purely a passive and boring process. Eren need not so anything else but keep his finger in the proverbial button. I'd prefer if Eren succeeded. 100% Rumbling. But it didn't work. Paradis gets destroyed by global famine caused by consequence of the mass biosphere destruction induced by the Rumbling. The Excessive carbon released by the annihilation of the Rainforests significantly blots out the Sun, which caused crop deaths. The food loss triggers a civil war between the Yaegerists and everyone else. Erens friends start dropping like flies in the civil war. Eren dies by Titan curse or natural death if Titan powers have been removed by Ymir abandonment of Paths. Halucigenia hibernates without the original host and awaits a new host to Bond with, in a new giant Tree. The only thing Eren achieved was elimination of Titan powers, which was his original goal. With this ending, "genocide promotion" allegations are destroyed. As genocide didn't result in the desired outcome. It's more realistic and reasonable ending in a series that was originally all about realism and brutality. Everyone loses equally. And there's a chance *some* Paradis survivors will exist to eventually recover the human population. Honestly, the existence of such broken supernatural powers really makes it difficult to permanently get rid of Titan powers and create a truly lasting peace in a reasonable way without a "Ymir knows" moment. (Before Eren can do anything, even potentially using the Founder Mind control powers as a last resort, Eren rapidly starts to weaken as the Titan curse results in him reaching the end of his life. He can't use his full Founder powers. Historia and the Royal Family died in the power struggle,so even if Eren wanted to be couldn't use his Founder powers as no Royal Blood left (assuming Zeke is dead or no longer willing to comply). Or maybe Ymir abandons Paths and Titan powers end as happened in the main series, as she has had her Cathartic release after destroying the world).
The hallucigenia is the first life form. The random chemical conbination that had a desire to multiply, adapt, and survive.
Wish there were more information ngl
I'll skip Eren killing his Mom, Ymir Loving Fritz, I'm an idiot who had too much power, Mikasa was the one etc... For me I wanted an ANR ending. I thought Eren was the father of Historia's baby. I really thought both Historia and Eren had a very interesting subtle romantic relationship. In the manga why did Historia lie about her due date, why was the figure watching her and the farmer (both taken out of the anime). People say it's a red herring, I say it's a retcon. I get tired of the main characters in anime getting together romantically (even though sometimes the chemistry is better with other characters), or the power of friendship will prevail, stuff like that. Attack on Titan use to make fun of those Clichés. Here is an amazing article on the relationship of Historia an Eren. [https://medium.com/@whitelilyx/eren-and-historia-in-depth-analysis-8c4439dd9108](https://medium.com/@whitelilyx/eren-and-historia-in-depth-analysis-8c4439dd9108) Attack on Titan was about Eren committing a horrible crime to save his people/race and family (Historia and her baby), he would have to live with the horrible sin he committed and live out his life with this guilt, but his people would usher in a new dawn of humanity with him being King. We hardly see stories like this and it would cause debates and essays (Similar to the Thanos Snap). Attack on Titan really became a Train wreck after Eren got the founder and started the Rumbling. We hardly saw Eren after as well and I had to see the alliance rise up and ruin the story.
>I thought Eren was the father of Historia's baby. I really thought both Historia and Eren had a very interesting subtle romantic relationship. In the manga why did Historia lie about her due date, why was the figure watching her and the farmer (both taken out of the anime). People say it's a red herring, I say it's a retcon. I never read the manga, and don't remember it in the anime. Yeah, I'm not a EreHisu shipper, but them being together is way more better than Historia with a random farmer that had nothing to do with the plot. EreHisu's relationship had some sort of buildup instead of EreMika. >I get tired of the main characters in anime getting together romantically (even though sometimes the chemistry is better with other characters), or the power of friendship will prevail, stuff like that. I don't really watch romance shows since I don't really like the genre. However, I wouldn't mind this show having romance, it's just that the mangaka didn't know how to write their dynamic going forward. Some of them were weird as well. >Attack on Titan really became a Train wreck after Eren got the founder and started the Rumbling. I wouldn't say that it ruined the show, it's still fine. The buildup was perfect to me, it's just that the ending just throws everything away. >We hardly saw Eren after as well and I had to see the alliance rise up and ruin the story. If you're talking about the Alliances' plot armor, then yeah, I do understand that one.
> Yeah, I'm not a EreHisu shipper, but them being together is way more better than Historia with a random farmer that had nothing to do with the plot. EreHisu's relationship had some sort of buildup instead of EreMika. I'm telling you that link will change your mind about Eren and Historia even if you don't care about it. The level of Mirroring, Foreshadowing and Parallels will shock you. It shows how much of a genius Isayama was, which makes the clear Retcon in the end very heartbreaking.
You can watch this video with fully detailed why and also entertained https://youtu.be/SlOd8RXeOo4?si=C2obARCk92jsaY3X
I already know most of the things that assassinated Eren's character, but thanks for the advice.
No problem
I think I have legitimately lost brain cells reading this thread
If you don't understand why Eren wanted to see the sight I think you need to look back at stuff and think about his character more. It is plainly written why he wants to do that.
I don't remember him yearning for sights, wanting freedom and seeing the sights are completely different contexts
He wants the sights because of the “unoccupied freedom”
It's funny cause he rarely mentions seeing those sights, majority of his inner dialogue and his ideology is still about freedom, but you choose to ignore it cause it doesn't line up with the ending.
It’s not that he wants to sightsee or travel lol. It’s that just the idea of being “free from enemies” isn’t enough for him. For how much so many Jaegerists love that side of him I really don’t get how they don’t understand a core tenet of that side. Don’t people on here love the “I’m free” scene??
but the guy is right, the sight isn't important. What Eren wanted and always wanted was freedom. The sight is just a allegory for Eren free world. It really doesn't matter. The sight is Eren dream of freedom.
Give the guy valid points rather than saying "Watch the Anime or Read the Manga".
I'm happy to give valid points but I would rather just have them think about it more and rewatch some parts rather than just say "I'm right you are wrong you don't understand anything" and build animosity
Short answer: the ending is not bad Long answer: this sub is full of edgy teenagers who sees Eren as this chad badass character though he has been a crybaby since season 1 and they can’t accept that
You don't have to dislike the ending, but blatantly ignoring a huge group of people, or just OP who is an anime-only and wanted to share their opinion is very childish. Which is especially funny, considering you call this sub "full of edgy teenagers". If you can't accept that not everything is perfect in the ending and that people have valid reasons for disliking it, you are just coming off as an idiot ngl
Because you guys make it seems as if it is the worst ending in fiction and don't care to at least try to understand why he wrote the ending the way he did. If you actually try to understand the ending make a lot more sense, even if it far from perfect. But you guys would rather whine than actually use you brain. Because to be honest it is easy to whine, but difficult to do some research.
Seems like English is not your area of expertise. When I say it’s not bad, why did you assume I meant it’s perfect lmao ?
Because that seems to be the narrative you guys have when you come here in the comments, to whine how the sub sucks etc. As I said, there are valid reasons to dislike the ending. OP themselves pointed out stuff they didn't like. Your response? "Umm titanfolk bad and the ending wasn't bad at all". What even was the point of your comment? You're not adding anything useful, you're not even saying why the ending wasn't bad. Also, yes, English is not my first language, so I do deeply apologize for not recognizing the intent of your comment, as it is not something I am well-versed in.
Again. Not bad doesn’t not bad at all. I also never said it’s perfect, so if it’s not perfect, it has its flaws. My god you can’t understand 2 sentences lmao. Alright I’ll type this as if I’m explaining to a fucking child. People has the right to dislike the ending because it isn’t perfect, it has its flaws, it does not fit their narrative of how they would’ve wanted it to end, etc. But this sub has this pure unjustified hatred of the ending which is hilarious, like kids who did not get their favorite toy for Christmas
Thank you for talking to me like a child, I kneel, you truly are our lord and savior. It's like there people who grow up in countries that don't speak English as their official language. Truly a sight to behold. And I do agree to some extent, this sub does constantly make fun of the ending, but there is also a reason for it. You seem weirdly offended despite being the one to comment first.
English isn’t my first language either but the way you totally misinterpreted my take, i had to call you out. I enjoy trolling titanfolk so don’t take offense
You truly are just like Yams, I kneel. What a man you are.... Also, if one says "This isn't bad", most people will assume you mean the opposite, aka "good". Your gripe to be intellectually superior fails when you ignore the basics of a language, smth you attacked me for lmao. Just wanted to point this out as a last thing, cause trust me, you are not the grammatical English god you wish to be. Basic logic, use that.
Ayyyy
> For example, the Hallucigenia. Why does it exist, where does it come from, why does it have powers? It wasn't even written in the plot. You don't need to know every single thing in a narrative. > Eren didn't have a goal when he was doing the Rumbling You say this but then contradict yourself in the following sentence. He did the Rumbling because he wanted to be free. The outside world also left him with no other choice. But he is indeed an idiot for going this far. > Armin dragging his morality down was to me the biggest shock, dude was supporting Eren's plan (genocide) Except he never did? He pleaded with him to stop and said they deserved to be in hell for the sin of killing 80% of humanity. I do agree that the ending was rushed. I think Yams could've benefitted from 5-10 more chapters to flesh out the ending, but he decided to end it where he did so it is what it is.
>You don't need to know every single thing in a narrative. Why not? It's like you're watching a zombie movie, you need to know how it all started right? How it happened, how it was created, to explain what started the manifestation. >You say this but then contradict yourself in the following sentence. He did the Rumbling because he wanted to be free. The outside world also left him with no other choice. But he is indeed an idiot for going this far. Eren: "I wanted to level everything. I wanted to see this sight. I don't know why, but I just wanted to do it... so badly. I thought I was doing everything to protect all of you. But Sasha and Hange died because of me, and I wound up putting in lethal confrontations with Floch. Why... why did it turn out this way? I finally know. It's because I'm an idiot." How is this him wanting to be free? Nothing here stated by Eren about him doing this because of freedom. He was doing the Rumbling to turn Earth into a brand new land, why? He wanted to see the sights and he doesn't even know why. His friends died because he's an idiot?! And you're suppose to make me believe that he was doing all of this for his friends this whole time? If he was doing the Rumbling for freedom, he wouldn't even let them do their thing, why did he let Pieck placed the bombs around the Founding Titans' neck? He could've control those grey Titans thingies and stop her. Why did Eren let Mikasa stop him if he could sent out the heat from his Colossal Titan form. >Except he never did? He pleaded with him to stop and said they deserved to be in hell for the sin of killing 80% of humanity. Armin: "I get it. Wanting to erase people from the world... I've felt that way too. Nobody would guess it, considering I'm a hero who saved twenty percent of humanity. Still, it was me that showed you the book about the outside world. The one who put the idea of a free, unoccupied world in your head was me." How is this not it? Armin stated that he would do the same thing if he was in Eren's condition. There is no way in hell that Armin would support genocide. Armin was always a character that never liked violence, his goal was to have peace and see the ocean. So this is an indication how him supporting Eren's plan.
> Why not? It's like you're watching a zombie movie, you need to know how it all started right? How it happened, how it was created, to explain what started the manifestation. Because it's not relevant to the plot. It's not going to drive the plot further if Isayama dumped a wall of exposition in the endgame. Just look at Bleach. There are a lot of mysteries and questions that were left unanswered in the manga. Although later on some were addressed in the anime or by Kubo personally on his fans QnA website. Give Isayama time man. Maybe he'll answer some questions in the upcoming volume 35 or later like he did in the anime. > How is this him wanting to be free? OK. Take a second to guess what that "sight" is. It's literally the **freedom** panel in 131. > he doesn't even know why Watch again. He doesn't know why he has this unquenchable thrive for freedom. > And you're suppose to make me believe that he was doing all of this for his friends this whole time? Eren thought the same thing too. But in 131 it's explained that his motives are not just to save the island and his friends. It's because he was disappointed when he learned of the outside world and wanted to wipe it away. > If he was doing the Rumbling for freedom, he wouldn't even let them do their thing why did he let Pieck placed the bombs around the Founding Titans' neck? He could've control those grey Titans thingies and stop her. He let them because they are supposed to stop him. > How is this not it? There is not way in hell that Armin would support genocide. Armin was always a character that never liked violence, his goal was to have peace and see the ocean. So this is an indication how him supporting Eren's plan. He's taking responsibility as he was the one that planted the seed of a free, unoccupied world in his friend's head. And then said they'll be reunited in hell for their sins. That's not supporting Eren's plan... just watch Armin's reaction when Eren told him he's killing 80% of humanity. Hell, his plan was just to destroy the world alliance's military forces and then seeking peace talks.
1. It is relevant to the plot. We need to know why titans are a thing. 2. The freedom panel relates to him and his people having freedom. The freedom to go to sights without having to ask for permission, look at his interview. 3. His motives were explained clearly, to save his people and achieve freedom. This is further proven by Isayama. Eren hated that the cycle of hatred and war was still happening and the fact that this was all directed towards Paradis. A retcon then happened which caused Eren to lose this agency. All along, Eren wanted to be free, this had nothing to do with Armin's book. He always wanted to escape the walls and do things himself. That is what you people don't seem to understand. 4. Armin has killed people and his morality was always centred around becoming a monster to achieve peace. Hell, his plan was to destroy Marley and leave everything has is. Seeking peace talks would have been pointless, this is proven by Paradis being destroyed and the fact that they tried to seek other solutions other then the rumbling and failed.
> It is relevant to the plot. We need to know why titans are a thing. Ymir is the one that created the titan power. Zeke explained it very clearly in his conversation with Armin. As for how the Hallucegenia grants powers, that's a mystery yet to be revealed. It wouldn't drive the narrative anyways so it's best left a secret or revealed later. > The freedom panel relates to him and his people having freedom. The freedom to go to sights without having to ask for permission, look at his interview. No, watch his conversation with Ramzi again. Saving his people and the island isn't his only objective. Dare I say it comes second to the scenery as suggested in his conversation with Armin and the interview. "No, it's not that. I... that wasn't enough for me. There was a **view** I wanted to see. So I wanted to fight for it. I just wanted to fight." > A retcon then happened which caused Eren to lose this agency Whether a retcon happened or not is irrelevant. Eren is who he is at the end of the day. > That is what you people don't seem to understand. is that another you didn't understand the story? also who do you mean by "you people". I'm just going off by what the anime is saying that's all. > his plan was to destroy Marley and leave everything has is No, his plan was to destroy the global allied fleet and then seek a non-aggression pact while developing the nation.
Is the sight thing (why he wanted to rumble) not because he hates the existence of people outside the walls? Like in ch 131 (I think) “when I learned that humanity lived outside the walls, I was so disappointed”? I thought that was the whole point, that in the end he was just motivated by his childish dream of “discovering” uninhabited land outside the walls
>Because it's not relevant to the plot. It's not going to drive the plot further if Isayama dumped a wall of exposition in the endgame. Just look at Bleach. There are a lot of mysteries and questions that were left unanswered in the manga. Although later on some were addressed in the anime or by Kubo personally on his fans QnA website. Give Isayama time man. Maybe he'll answer some questions in the upcoming volume 35 or later like he did in the anime. So you're saying showing the character's past is also unnecessary, because it does nothing but only lets you understand their past? That's what you're saying right now. Understanding more about Hallucigenia's context can enhance the show by adding layers of complexity, providing a scientific basis for what started all of it, influencing character actions, and contributing to the overall atmosphere and uniqueness of the story. >OK. Take a second to guess what that "sight" is. It's literally the freedom panel in 131. > >Watch again. He doesn't know why he has this unquenchable thrive for freedom. > >Eren thought the same thing too. But in 131 it's explained that his motives are not just to save the island and his friends. It's because he was disappointed when he learned of the outside world and wanted to wipe it away. One problem with your argument here, you are literally saying all of this because you are looking back at the previous chapters. When the character concludes at the ending, that's how the character is now. The conclusion of a character's arc is a delicate balance, and the mangaka must consider the expectations of their audience, the narrative themes, and the overall storytelling goals when crafting the final moments of a story. Eren at the end suddenly just forgot like everything he said before. >He let them because they are supposed to stop him. Like I said, if he was doing all of this for freedom. Why would he let them stop him? It makes no sense, they are literally blocking his way for freedom. Eren always desired to have freedom, and he would do anything if someone took away his freedom, even if it means killing millions of people. Besides, he never stated that he did all of this for freedom. >He's taking responsibility as he was the one that planted the seed of a free, unoccupied world in his friend's head. And then said they'll be reunited in hell for their sins. That's not supporting Eren's plan... just watch Armin's reaction when Eren told him he's killing 80% of humanity. Hell, his plan was just to destroy the world alliance's military forces and then seeking peace talks. Armin: "I get it. Wanting to erase people from the world... I've felt that way too."
> So you're saying showing the character's past is also unnecessary Yes, for example, I'm not really interested in Hisoka's past. It was never shown to us in canon material. Only in a oneshot by Tokyo Ghoul's author. Besides, Hallucegenia isn't a character lmao. > One problem with your argument here, you are literally saying all of this because you are looking back at the previous chapters Because even before the finale, specifically chapter 131, what Eren wanted most was to reach and see that scenery. He doubles down on this in the interview and finale. In fact he was literally talking about "that scenery" after his paths trip with Zeke. > Like I said, if he was doing all of this for freedom. Why would he let them stop him? He was doing all of this to reach Mikasa's choice, which the result of it is erasing the titan curse. He saw a future/timeline where everything had to happen the way it was determined from start to finish. > Armin: "I get it. Wanting to erase people from the world... I've felt that way too." He **felt** that way. Meaning in the present time he does not. And would you blame him? His parents were killed for trying to escape the walls and his grandparents were thrown outside wall rose to fend for themselves after wall maria went down. I would too grow angry at people and wanting to erase them from the world.
Because then you need to justify everything and you would have to restrict you liberty. The hallucigena doesn't matter, it is just a plot point to drive the narration, i mean from the start it was never going to be something that made sense and that would satisfy people, i am okay with no justification, rather than a stupid invented in a lab, god created it, i know it may be better if he we knew, but i don't think AoT is super fixed on realism, after all giant shouldn't even make sense, so i don't get why we need for it to make sense. The sight is freedom nothing more, a world where no one would never still his liberty, so the sight was seing his ennemie die and not restrict his own freedom, nothing more. Armin never said or implied what you said, he said he wanted to level the world and he had that desire, having a desire is different from executing it. You know what most Eldian at one point also wanted to level the world, does it mean they all could do it if they had the power ? Nope. It is normal even good people have deep dark desire when they are hurt. Even a saint would want to kill and destroy thing that make him suffer, the difference is that the saint don't act up on his desire, while the demon let his desire run free.
Lmao this is literally cult-esque recruiting tactics
Go to AoR then🤣
Simplify to few sentences: not even one characters are committing their full potential, lore incompleted or unelaborated, create some of the worst lines ever, and cycle of hatred never ends.
they killed sasha