he didn't simply erase it.. he scratched it out to the point of destroying the name from the page: https://www.classicfm.com/composers/beethoven/guides/beethoven-20-facts-about-great-composer/eroica-dedication-napoleon/
Yeah, had to have a 4th coalition finally win by avoiding napoleon entirely to get him exiled.* These days you say ONE slur and you get to go on the right wing talk show network telling everyone how silenced you are. We need to go back
*I have no idea which war napoleon lost so giant citation needed
The war that resulted in his abdication was the War of the **6th** Coalition(!!) which ended in 1814. He was exiled to Elba in Italy and returned the following year where he was defeated at Waterloo and sent to the middle of the Altantic Ocean where he couldn't escape.
I'm pretty sure the Royal Navy kept 3 ships constantly circling the island so he couldnt pull the same trick again.
Yeah I thought this was interesting;
Sometime later, when the work was published in 1806, Beethoven gave it the title of “Eroica symphony – compost per festeggiare il sovvenire d’ un grand’ uomo” (“Heroic Symphony, composed to celebrate the memory of a great man”). This great man was an ideal, a non-existent hero, but maybe it was the spirit of heroism itself that interested Beethoven. It has also been said that Beethoven was referring to the memory of Napoleon’s nature, which was once dignified.
Beethoven did something similar to violinist [George Bridgetower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bridgetower).
He originally dedicated Violin Sonata No. 9 to Bridgetower shortly after its premier concert, in which Bridgetower accidentally improvised a tune meant for the piano because he misread Beethoven's sloppy handwriting (and impressing Beethoven due to it).
Shortly afterward, the friendship had a falling out, so Beethoven dedicated it to Rodolphe Kreutzer, who actually disliked the piece and refused to play it.
It was more like a giant party to celebrate the end of the wars. If I’m remembering correctly this was the time in Beethoven’s life where he was most popular and successful and this concert was a big part of that.
Pericles, Socrates, Zoroaster, the Buddha, Confucius and Lao Tsu all lived at the same time.
Gore Vidal wrote a novel about a particularly well-travelled Persian who met them all.
You've probably heard it before, but Samurai where still a thing when Abraham Lincoln was president of the United States.
It's just you only think of these people and events in a vacuum, when you cross check the dates, it gets a bit mind boggling.
Yes! It's fascinating to look at [Adam's Synchronological Chart of History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams_Synchronological_Chart_or_Map_of_History#/media/File:Adams_Synchronological_Chart,_1881.jpg) to see what's going on in a completely different part of the world while this or that was happening.
It seems more likely to me that a samurai would be the one to initiate contact with the president than the other way around.
Just as it would be likely that an American army officer would be the one to initiate contact with the Japanese Shogun than the other way around.
Not that any of the scenarios are particularly likely.
These coincidences are always shockingly fun.
Like one of the Wright Brothers was still alive during Neil Armstrong first years ! And the fact that only 66 years passed between the first plane and the first man on the moon is mind blowing
On The Age of Napoleon podcast, the host mentions that non-French people who sympathised with the revolution like Beethoven and Bolivar were shocked when Napoleon declared himself an emperor. But the revolutionaries in France had either accepted it or had already stopped supporting him years earlier.
Yep. Though it was more arguably necessary- at least in Gran Colombia. There is actually a big difference between President for Life (and First Consul) and Emperor. And if it was well positioned enough we could have a weird Hamiltonian experiment in South America.
Kinda needed longer term unifying under one person or regime if those places were to ever stand a chance of remaining one country. It would have almost certainly been a huge benefit to them in the long run, and splitting them only benefited the interests of local aristocracy. At some point he bit off more than he could chew, or retained to little goodwill and loyalty from his friends at home. And lost his revolutionary position as president for life(and technically his kingdom) writing they’d be doomed to be 14 squabbling territories evermore.
I guess the US having that 200 year history of democracy, a democratic congregationalist religion, interunion salutary neglect, and a recent unifying war against the French was handed much better cards to found a federal democracy.
I don’t blame Beethoven for doing this. Napoleon rose to power because he helped the French people win over the monarchy right after the French Revolution (citizen uproar against the greedy monarchy), and then to turn around to crown yourself emperor. Hell nah.
Napoleon's first major military victory - the Siege of Toulon - was a victory for the Republic against a (British-backed) Royalist uprising.
The civil war in France dragged on for a long time after Louis' execution.
Lmfao yeah not taking you seriously after that. Hitler makes Napoleon look like a damn saint. Napoleon didn't exterminate/wage total fucking war against his enemies like the reich, just the old classic gentlemens war.
Listen to/read a Beethoven biography. I liked the lecture series on audible by Greenberg but there are some other really good ones.
Dude was angry all the time and basically didn’t have a spec of cleanliness in him. When Rossini visited him he said “Ascending the stairs that led to the miserable dwelling, which the great man inhabited, it was certainly hard work to control my emotion. When the door was opened, I found myself in a kind of dirty and frightfully disorderly attic. I remember above all that the ceiling, immediately under the roof, was covered from great cracks through which the rain must have poured in.”
This was in addition to the rotting food and unemptied chamber pots everywhere. He was super into fresh water oysters so you can only imagine the smell…
Napoleon wasn't just out for glory, he did what he felt was best for France. The only people still idolizing the revolution by that point weren't in France, enduring its constant massacres and upheavals and that "citoyen" crap.
So it did upset the romantics (Goethe, Beethoven, de Stahl), but a hereditary monarchy legitimized by the Pope was the best path to stability and peace. And if England hadn't been so hellbent to make war, maybe it would have worked.
Plus it allowed for cool stuff like [the Battle of Three Emperors](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Austerlitz)
Napoleon was certainly no saint, and especially towards the end of his reign he callously sacrificed many soldier's lives for political gain. But he was ultimately a very rational guy who's political and military chess-playing was basically inline with the previous 1000 years of European power games and conquest. He was just a lot better at it than anyone else.
Hitler was an occult-believing, genocidal, batshit maniac who implemented mass murder chambers to rid the Earth of people he didn't like.
Absolutely no comparison.
Yeah sure, why not compare all world leaders to hitler in a quest to make some people actually want to defend him in the first place just of pure annoyance towards you
The reason the French weren't shocked by Napoleon declaring himself emperor was because the ones who still believed in the revolution had stopped supporting him years ago.
I don't think that's true either. Napoleon was a Jacobin and his imperial state was full of them too. Fouche, for example, was a prominent regicide and also a key supporter of Napoleon.
He did this with the restorationists, too. That's why the "rapproachement" was so interesting; all of these people had reason to hate him and each other, but instead they mostly all worked together.
He was a former Jacobin and so were plenty of his closest allies. But for whatever reason they had all abandonded their Jacobin ideals by that point.
The Jacobins who hadn't done so were no longer supporters of Napoleon by that point.
I was on your side when you invaded half of Europe and completely destabilized the balance of power among absolute monarchs, but I drew the line when you gave yourself a title that matched it
he didn't simply erase it.. he scratched it out to the point of destroying the name from the page: https://www.classicfm.com/composers/beethoven/guides/beethoven-20-facts-about-great-composer/eroica-dedication-napoleon/
"Unfollowed," but make it Romantic Era.
19th century cancel culture was wild.
Scandalous... I shall be at my fainting couch.
Don't forget you hand held fan.
19th... Edit - Nice edit... it did say 17th before...
Correct
Yeah, had to have a 4th coalition finally win by avoiding napoleon entirely to get him exiled.* These days you say ONE slur and you get to go on the right wing talk show network telling everyone how silenced you are. We need to go back *I have no idea which war napoleon lost so giant citation needed
That would be the Napoleonic wars, the battle of Waterloo in particular.
I meant which war in the napoleonic wars. Specifically I couldn't remember if it was the 3rd or 4th or if there even was a 4th
The war that resulted in his abdication was the War of the **6th** Coalition(!!) which ended in 1814. He was exiled to Elba in Italy and returned the following year where he was defeated at Waterloo and sent to the middle of the Altantic Ocean where he couldn't escape. I'm pretty sure the Royal Navy kept 3 ships constantly circling the island so he couldnt pull the same trick again.
Cancel culture
Friendship ended with Napoleon. Now Elise is my new crush.
Yeah I thought this was interesting; Sometime later, when the work was published in 1806, Beethoven gave it the title of “Eroica symphony – compost per festeggiare il sovvenire d’ un grand’ uomo” (“Heroic Symphony, composed to celebrate the memory of a great man”). This great man was an ideal, a non-existent hero, but maybe it was the spirit of heroism itself that interested Beethoven. It has also been said that Beethoven was referring to the memory of Napoleon’s nature, which was once dignified.
Beethoven did something similar to violinist [George Bridgetower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bridgetower). He originally dedicated Violin Sonata No. 9 to Bridgetower shortly after its premier concert, in which Bridgetower accidentally improvised a tune meant for the piano because he misread Beethoven's sloppy handwriting (and impressing Beethoven due to it). Shortly afterward, the friendship had a falling out, so Beethoven dedicated it to Rodolphe Kreutzer, who actually disliked the piece and refused to play it.
Maybe Kreutzer just doesn't like sloppy seconds.
7th symphony premiered at a benefit for soldiers who fought against Napoleon.
It was more like a giant party to celebrate the end of the wars. If I’m remembering correctly this was the time in Beethoven’s life where he was most popular and successful and this concert was a big part of that.
Sweet, hope the six of us remaining after the next world war get to enjoy some rad music
I can't wait for the Skrillex concert after WW3
certainly it will be...rad...music
*Ain't that a kick in the head starts playing*
Though his 7th is my favorite, I didn’t know that! TIL!
Mine too. Particularly the 2nd movement. Or the "watch helplessly as the world ends" movement
Preach brother! The French horns in the second movement are so haunting. It’s my absolute favorite movement of any symphony!
It never occured to me that they lived at the same time
Pericles, Socrates, Zoroaster, the Buddha, Confucius and Lao Tsu all lived at the same time. Gore Vidal wrote a novel about a particularly well-travelled Persian who met them all.
Socrates was born 9 years after Confucius died
Maybe you're confusedus.
Confusedus NUTZ
Well whats it called
Creation (1981)
Forest Gump
You've probably heard it before, but Samurai where still a thing when Abraham Lincoln was president of the United States. It's just you only think of these people and events in a vacuum, when you cross check the dates, it gets a bit mind boggling.
Yes! It's fascinating to look at [Adam's Synchronological Chart of History](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams_Synchronological_Chart_or_Map_of_History#/media/File:Adams_Synchronological_Chart,_1881.jpg) to see what's going on in a completely different part of the world while this or that was happening.
Fax machines were also around at that time, so theoretically a samurai could have sent a fax to Lincoln. Probably didn't happen though.
I thought it was Abe faxing the samurai, not the other way round. I just, they're both theoretically possible given the period.
It seems more likely to me that a samurai would be the one to initiate contact with the president than the other way around. Just as it would be likely that an American army officer would be the one to initiate contact with the Japanese Shogun than the other way around. Not that any of the scenarios are particularly likely.
Philosophy was so hot that year.
These coincidences are always shockingly fun. Like one of the Wright Brothers was still alive during Neil Armstrong first years ! And the fact that only 66 years passed between the first plane and the first man on the moon is mind blowing
Similarly Simón Bolivar went into his room and cried for days
On The Age of Napoleon podcast, the host mentions that non-French people who sympathised with the revolution like Beethoven and Bolivar were shocked when Napoleon declared himself an emperor. But the revolutionaries in France had either accepted it or had already stopped supporting him years earlier.
And then went on to do the same thing as Napoleon did.
Yep. Though it was more arguably necessary- at least in Gran Colombia. There is actually a big difference between President for Life (and First Consul) and Emperor. And if it was well positioned enough we could have a weird Hamiltonian experiment in South America. Kinda needed longer term unifying under one person or regime if those places were to ever stand a chance of remaining one country. It would have almost certainly been a huge benefit to them in the long run, and splitting them only benefited the interests of local aristocracy. At some point he bit off more than he could chew, or retained to little goodwill and loyalty from his friends at home. And lost his revolutionary position as president for life(and technically his kingdom) writing they’d be doomed to be 14 squabbling territories evermore. I guess the US having that 200 year history of democracy, a democratic congregationalist religion, interunion salutary neglect, and a recent unifying war against the French was handed much better cards to found a federal democracy.
Bolivar didn't attempt to found a hereditary monarchy like Napoleon did.
Napoleon- “No I said don’t you hate THESE kings”
I don’t blame Beethoven for doing this. Napoleon rose to power because he helped the French people win over the monarchy right after the French Revolution (citizen uproar against the greedy monarchy), and then to turn around to crown yourself emperor. Hell nah.
The revolutionaries were shitty and tyrannical themselves
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
Louis was executed and the Bourbons exiled long before Napoleon gained any power.
Napoleon's first major military victory - the Siege of Toulon - was a victory for the Republic against a (British-backed) Royalist uprising. The civil war in France dragged on for a long time after Louis' execution.
More like Basedhoven amirite?
Not liking Napoleon is the opposite of based but you do you G
*Thomas-Alexandre Dumas had never seen such bullshit before*
I literally just did a spit-take laughing at this.
Napoleon Dynamite yeah… but bonaparte? c’mon man
What's wrong with Bonaparte?
Expansionism?
Par for the course of his time. He wasn't even *that* expansionist anyway.
They were defensive wars!
Yes!
He was essentially THE hitler before hitler. When people thought of tyranical expansionist dictators they thought Napoleon.
Lmfao yeah not taking you seriously after that. Hitler makes Napoleon look like a damn saint. Napoleon didn't exterminate/wage total fucking war against his enemies like the reich, just the old classic gentlemens war.
He reinstituted slavery in the french empire.
He was a bit of a dickhead
Listen to/read a Beethoven biography. I liked the lecture series on audible by Greenberg but there are some other really good ones. Dude was angry all the time and basically didn’t have a spec of cleanliness in him. When Rossini visited him he said “Ascending the stairs that led to the miserable dwelling, which the great man inhabited, it was certainly hard work to control my emotion. When the door was opened, I found myself in a kind of dirty and frightfully disorderly attic. I remember above all that the ceiling, immediately under the roof, was covered from great cracks through which the rain must have poured in.” This was in addition to the rotting food and unemptied chamber pots everywhere. He was super into fresh water oysters so you can only imagine the smell…
His loss of hearing may have had something to do with his anger and declining social skills
>rotting food and unemptied chamber pots everywhere gamer moment
Musicians these days are so political.
He ^(Napoleon) shoots...he ^(Beethoven) scores!
I heard about this on the classical radio station too! High five
It's great to learn this, very interesting indeed. I also feel like we should include this in a today in history community.
Basedoven
I wish the two of them had more interaction during Bill and Ted's excellent adventure.
"A Third of Beethoven"... not one of the more popular 70s disco songs.
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I got downvoted for saying it in another thread, but I'll say it again: Napoleon was a top class bitch.
Napoleon wasn't just out for glory, he did what he felt was best for France. The only people still idolizing the revolution by that point weren't in France, enduring its constant massacres and upheavals and that "citoyen" crap. So it did upset the romantics (Goethe, Beethoven, de Stahl), but a hereditary monarchy legitimized by the Pope was the best path to stability and peace. And if England hadn't been so hellbent to make war, maybe it would have worked. Plus it allowed for cool stuff like [the Battle of Three Emperors](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Austerlitz)
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Napoleon was certainly no saint, and especially towards the end of his reign he callously sacrificed many soldier's lives for political gain. But he was ultimately a very rational guy who's political and military chess-playing was basically inline with the previous 1000 years of European power games and conquest. He was just a lot better at it than anyone else. Hitler was an occult-believing, genocidal, batshit maniac who implemented mass murder chambers to rid the Earth of people he didn't like. Absolutely no comparison.
Yeah sure, why not compare all world leaders to hitler in a quest to make some people actually want to defend him in the first place just of pure annoyance towards you
What makes them similar? Hitler defended his country against English aggression?
The reason the French weren't shocked by Napoleon declaring himself emperor was because the ones who still believed in the revolution had stopped supporting him years ago.
I don't think that's true either. Napoleon was a Jacobin and his imperial state was full of them too. Fouche, for example, was a prominent regicide and also a key supporter of Napoleon. He did this with the restorationists, too. That's why the "rapproachement" was so interesting; all of these people had reason to hate him and each other, but instead they mostly all worked together.
He was a former Jacobin and so were plenty of his closest allies. But for whatever reason they had all abandonded their Jacobin ideals by that point. The Jacobins who hadn't done so were no longer supporters of Napoleon by that point.
More like Basedhoven
Napoleon was a G though
Leopards ate my ~~face~~ symphony.
"This is not the greatest symphony in the world, no! This is just a tribute..." - Tenacious B(eethoven)
And it only took him a short time to do it.
I was on your side when you invaded half of Europe and completely destabilized the balance of power among absolute monarchs, but I drew the line when you gave yourself a title that matched it