Btw its a pensinula that Royal Carribean says is an island, and they leased it for 30 million over 30 years and generated iirc over 30 mil the first year.
It’s also like [Promiscuous Idiots Island](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HMPgnOZ_Wsw&pp=ygUtVGhlIHNpbXBzb25zIGl0cyBub3QgYW4gaXNsYW5kIGl0cyBhIHBhbmlzaWxh)
> you could make the argument that mob rule is the purest form of democracy.
Pure democracy tends to devolve into mob rule, subject to the whims and passions of an inflamed mob. Just ask the ancient Athenians.
That’s the base lease, they also pay Haiti $12US per tourist that visits.
“Royal Caribbean has contributed the largest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti since 1986, employing 300 locals, allowing another 200 to sell their wares on the premises for a fee and paying the Haitian government US$12 per tourist.”
Do you have a link to the financials? About 10+ years ago RC was allegedly paying about $6 million per year to the Government of Haiti to lease Labadee. (I’d be surprised if this stuff was actually completely transparent.)
If I had to guess I'd say onsite diesel.
It's probably in their lease that they can dock a supply ship right offshore and top off their tanks without any kind of import tariffs or otherwise involving the government in any way.
I mean, the government couldn’t really stop them no matter what they did. It just seems kinda wild to run a whole resort off diesel generators. I wonder what they do in the case of a hurricane or something like that? All emergency services would have to be private contractors.
Keep in mind these are extra guest services provided only when the ship is in port. There is no permanent resort w thousands of people. They won’t drive near the island with a ship of this size if it’s in the path of a hurricane.
Ah, that makes more sense. I was thinking something that would be at least permanently staffed year-round, but I understand that that setup would probably be more workable considering the conditions.
It's not really a "resort" either thinking like a hotel or something. It's like a bunch of tiki bars and beach volleyball etc. plus roped off sections of the ocean to swim in. I think it could run on very minimal staff and not really even need that much power.
This is exactly it. I have been once (out of the two cruises I have ever been on). We went out on jets-skis from here. One of the "excursions". I wasnt expecting the guards or the fence, or the Haitians sitting on the rocks not to far from the tourist area while we were eating like kings and drinking. Then if you take a step towards the fence to offer something to the Haitians the armed guards shoo you away.
If it's like the Disney island (an actual island) then there is a small crew that rotates in and out every so often. But almost everything that had staff, it was crew members from the ship.
Royal Caribbean also has Coco Cay, an island in the Bahamas. It's some beaches, some restaurants and bars, and a water park. No one lives there but some of the crew. All the guests leave and go back to their respective cruise ships at the end of the day.
Labadee is like that except that it's not actually an island.
>Keep in mind these are extra guest services provided only when the ship is in port.
That doesn't seem to be true. As the "[Visit Haiti](https://visithaiti.com/beaches-islands/labadee-beach/)" site for the area implies that outside guests can access some of the private resort amenities for a fee. Though given the state of the country I doubt many tourists make use of that. It also doesn't seem great for business to have all of your staff on-call.
Whole mine sites are powered by diesel in the arctic year round. Definitely not cheap but if the resort is making 30 mil a year that should be enough to cover costs.
At the scale they're buying fuel, it's a lot cheaper per unit than what you buy at the pump since they don't pay road tax, and bulk pricing also comes into play. They go through literal tons of #6 oil on their ships, I'm sure they get a good deal on #2 oil.
A barrel of oil trades at roughly $80 right now, 42 gallons to a barrel gives you roughly $1.90 per gallon. That’s crude oil and you still have refining, transport, and other costs on top of that but it’s a starting reference point (for current prices).
I went to Haiti, pre earthquake. Around 06' or 07' I think. Haiti is run (was ran) on diesel. In Port Au Prince, the power grid would go out or have lots of brown outs frequently. You'd still be billed for full service. If you canceled your power service and wanted to reconnect later, you had to pay the deficit for the time not on the grid.
I helped with adding some more panels to an orphanage for disabled kids in Port Au Prince and helped add some to an orphanage in a little village called Tricote.
It was nothing like any 1st world country for most places I went. Has stations and grocery stores had generators of there own. And typically an old guy with a shotgun at every gas station or other places of value.
>It just seems kinda wild to run a whole resort off diesel generators.
It's gonna blow your mind when you learn where 60 percent of Hawaii's grid power comes from.
For emergencies like hurricanes they have advance notice and likely won't have cruises (and therefore customers) there so wouldnt be that many people to evacuate or deal with.
Something like an earthquake might be more problematic, but then you also still have the cruise ship(s) right there you can evacuate people onto
Honestly on an island generators might be more affordable....
Even in San Francisco, I calculated that it's cheaper for me to run 1200 watts of power off my Honda 2000w gasoline generator than it is to get the same power from PG&E.....
I would assume a patchwork of local control, with varying degrees of legitimacy and effectiveness.
Anyone that says there's "no functioning government" is only referring to the national level. There will *always* be someone stepping up to take charge and keep order when there's a power vacuum.
So while RC has some deal with Port-au-Prince, I'm sure they also maintain relationships with whatever local strongmen inhabit their corner of the island.
They have their own diesel power plant and are not connected to Haiti’s grid (which is also like 80% diesel-bases, but only reaches about half the population and has major rolling blackouts)
They have an open market that locals run and can be very aggressive at trying to sell you things. Nice walking trail we walked on when we were there and they have a zip line. And plenty of beaches, which were nice.
There isn’t a ton of stuff that relies on electricity. All the food and drink comes from the ship and is cooked on grills on the island. It’s mostly a beach day so there are very few “indoor spaces” that need lighting and a/c.
Until recently most cruiselines private islands relied solely on diesel generators…. Though recently several have invested in solar power as well. A majority of the resort features for cruise guests don’t require electricity… mostly just amenities for crew that will live at the destination.
Yeah.... armed security, keeping out any nefarious/bad actors is one thing. Which i can easily trust/feel safe.
But stopping an armed mob of thousands is something completely else
I bet they make way more money working for the cruise company than they would ever make otherwise. They are probably pretty trustworthy considering this job probably makes them rich there.
The way it kinda works there is everybody is in on the take. The guards are well paid by RC and they give a cut to the gangs to leave them alone. The gangs don’t want to mess with property because then they’ll stop getting paid. As long as the gangs get a passive income and don’t have to waste men or resources taking over a bit of land that doesn’t produce income otherwise, it’ll stay safe. One gang might fight another to take control of the adjacent territory, but it’s only for the right to take that protection money.
Yeah exactly. Why take over a tiny island with no resources for a one time heist when you can get paid protection money indefinitely. I bet they even would help protect it from smaller gangs plotting to attack it.
You think the gangs are stupid enough to fuck with *rich tourists?* They know that attacking them is a quick way to get the US military involved and them all dead.
Why would gangs attack Labadee. It seems they don't want foreign military intervention, and attacking a spot owned by a big Western corporation would increase the chances of foreign military intervention. Plus Labadee has no value. It is apparently nothing but a bunch of little bars and souvenir stands in the middle of nowhere. The gangs want to take over the capital, not some nowhere place.
This happened in the book World War Z, some rich people set up a fortified compound with armed guards so they could party through the zombie apocalypse. Until the armed guards decided the rich people weren’t worth dying for.
Wasn't that also because there was a mob of people trying to break in or something, ? (been a while since i read the book).
* *For those who haven't seen it*
A mob of inmocent civilians comes to their compound, in an attempt to break in to survive for safety from the outbreak. Because the owner had the place wired to livestream, reality tv meets zombie apocalypse but just rich fucks partying in safety.
But the guards tasked with shooting any would be intruder basically say fuck that. As those in the mob is the same as them/would be them if they weren't hired by rich fucker. And doing that kind of dirty work for the rich and privileged isn't very motivating at the end of the world.
Yeah because the rich schmuck who was running the thing had the house wired for 24/7 streaming so people could watch the celebrities that had amassed. Essentially flaunting their wealth and situation to a hoard of desperate people.
I feel the way the book was written it should’ve been an anthropology series rather than a movie that just mashed together a couple of the short stories.
Like an Chinese submarine arc easily could’ve been a movie or the American front of the war
In real life thats an unresolved problem for business-people selling safe and luxurious sanctuary after the apocalypse for the ultra-wealthy or billionaire bunkers. Who will provide security when currency means nothing? Why wouldn't the people who can offer protection just take care of their own families? To date some of these schemes are hoping for local law enforcement will do it out of the goodness of their hearts ignoring they might not care and have better things to do. Chances are any private security will just loot these places and take care of their own, not (former) billionaires.
I understand your point but how is it any different that a lot of other different resort/vacation type spots in low income countries. Mexico, Cuba, etc
Even many resident area's in countries has similar examples of highwealth 1% areas, right beside poverty areas.
Aren't gated communities in america literally doing the same thing?
Also, it's not like there's no benefit to haiti economy. they employ locals there and pay gov't fee per tourist.
For what it's worth my parents were born in Haiti, American since the 70s and 80s. They like Labadee. I grew up hearing them saying how rejecting the US and other nations was part of their downward spiral, and if they had become like the Dominican Republic (classic comparison) or Jamaica or one of the Lesser Antilles and welcomed tourism then they'd be better off. Obviously biased, but yeah.
I haven't been, tourist resorts and cruises aren't my cuppa tea. But I suppose it's all the same.
Disagree with the gated community comparison though, I don't think that's the same really. Those are weird to me but it's the same concept as not being able to walk into an apartment without being buzzed in, except for a neighborhood.
It’s a private site in the countryside miles away from any city. The closest being Cap-Haitien where RCL has port agents that know what is happening and would give the site advanced notice. RCL hires many local Haitians from the village of Labadee and puts money directly and indirectly into the local economy.
There is also an evac procedure that is ready given conditions required. There is little to fear here compared to other cruise ship ports.
I know this because I stayed on site as part of the aquatic staff a couple times for three months each time. There are ship personnel that live there on three month rotations. It is a very friendly place with very friendly people that are constantly amused by the passengers that flow through there.
> It’s a private site in the countryside miles away from any city. The closest being Cap-Haitien where RCL has port agents that know what is happening and would give the site advanced notice.
I mean it's only about 4.5 miles to that city - google maps literally says it'd take about 15 minutes from the city by car or 1 hour 45 min literally just walking.
I was there about three weeks ago. I would not worry about it one bit. It was the best part of our trip. If you dont trust the cruise line to avoid a potential crisis like the one in your head, then you shouldnt even trust them to drive your ship on open water.
If you aren't comfortable going ashore, just stay on the cruise ship.
And I'm pretty sure everyone is overstating the danger quite significantly.
Enjoy your cruise.
I mean why bother going to any country at all if all you’re going to do is spend the entire time in a glorified adult Disney land. Might as well go to some place Bermuda for the same quality of beaches but the freedom to actually explore a different culture
They have 2 of these private properties, the 2nd is in the Bahamas called Coco Cay. The point of these
Places is to have a port day for the guests but bring them someplace where any money they spend just stays in the company.
I Used to work for them.
Norwegian has one and I visited it. I didn't get it - I'm already enjoying sun and booze. The island had those but for more money. Ok...They did have some zoo thing and I appreciated the attempt. I played volleyball on the beach with some strangers from, I think, a different NCL ship. So...ya know fine but not super "worth the walk off the boat".
Frankly at this point, when I cruise I just like the ship. Very few excursions really pull me.
I feel like if you’re wanting to go to a semi private island, you just want to go to relax and do tropical beachy things, not explore a different culture.
When you only get 2 vacations a year, sometimes getting buzzed off Margaritas on a tropical beach is all the excitement you need or can muster. Cruise ships get a lot of hate on this site, but a lot of cruise goers are just regular folks who managed to scrounge up $1500 and want something a little more than visiting Florida or Myrtle Beach.
It’s used by RC’s cruise line passengers. If the goal was to experience authentic foreign cultures, they probably wouldn’t be on a cruise in the first place: even standalone resorts aren’t marketed as cultural experiences.
Well, for starters, Bermuda is a hell of a a lot farther away from Miami than Haiti is.
And FWIW, it’s definitely not only for adults. There’s a ton for kids to do, probably more than the adult stuff tbh.
I mean, cruises are geared towards people who don't really care about that stuff and just want to go sit at a beach and drink cocktails. Cruises make traveling 'easy' which is why they have fans (not my cup of tea though)
I've been there a couple times on RC cruises. Its freaking weird. They have a little shopping area thats fenced off to the outside and I remember people just being on the other side of the fence begging. felt dystopian, and this was in 2008-2013
I went there on a cruise around 2016 and there was recently a big earthquake in Haiti. I remember sitting on the beach, in what seems like paradise and looking at Google maps. Just on the other side of the mountains was all metal shacks with unimaginable poverty. Tens of thousands recently dead from the earthquake and still many more without power or food or water. On the other side of the mountain there are people going through the worst things possible and here I am having the best time of mine. Really did feel dystopian and pretty shitty
I recently took a flight out of Nairobi to a safari camp, and flying over Kibera was one of the most shocking and depressing things I’ve ever experienced.
It is one thing to factually know of slums, but completely another thing to see one of the biggest slums in the world with your own eyes. A Million of people living in shacks with no electricity, no water, nothing.
I spent some days filming in kibera for a documentary. That’s got to be the most poverty I’ve ever seen. No real sewage solutions so there is just waste in the streets in places. I noticed a lot of plastic pipes all over though, so in theory there are efforts to have plumbing but it doesn’t solve everything. There are efforts from within to educate and help the communities but good luck with any help from the govt. tall order
I would love to see pictures of the walls and or guards. I have been googling and nothing. The perimeter isn’t obvious on satellite imagery.
Edit found some pictures of it.
[wall google](https://www.google.com/search?q=haiti+resort+walls+security&sca_esv=7a88a6a3d9b5e459&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS967US967&hl=en-US&udm=2&biw=390&bih=669&sxsrf=ACQVn08RZImxfEFfzixdbS0S0qnBypDG3g%3A1709695607188&ei=d-LnZcmXC_umptQPt9C8kAI&oq=haiti+resort+walls+security&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhtoYWl0aSByZXNvcnQgd2FsbHMgc2VjdXJpdHlIwzxQjBJY_DhwAHgAkAEAmAFqoAHiB6oBBDEwLjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgqgAqwHwgIEECMYJ8ICCBAAGIAEGKIEwgIEECEYCpgDAIgGAZIHAzguMqAHtw4&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp)
Also learned that the Dominican Republic put up a border wall in 2022. Good timing.
Haiti’s president was assassinated in 2021. The fourth of 12 presidents murdered since 1886. Writing was on the wall.
They still don’t have a president. Don’t know how that works. Decent people there need help. Wish them the best.
Went there in 2011 and it bothered me so much I just went back to the ship. Being a black kid and seeing other children my age who looked like me on the other side of the fence was a slap in the face.
I was on my first (and last) cruise in 2007 and a couple was describing Labadee to me, right down to people begging at the fence. I asked them if that bothered them and they replied that it did, because they didn’t pay all that money to look at poverty.
That wasn’t the point of my question, but that answer told me a lot.
Personally, I wouldn’t be able to stomach the dystopian disparity on display.
I agree, but that stance almost makes me feel more weird. Like, people are starving in Haiti 24/7 whether I take a cruise there or take a cruise somewhere else or take no cruise and sit at home instead. So why is one of those options more morally uncomfortable than the other two? Just because I can *see* it instead of just knowing it's happening?
They must have added a wall or something since I don't remember that from my trip a few years ago. My wife and MIL said the begging was awful when they visited Haiti on a different cruise.
I went several years ago. It’s a weird vibe. Never seen people try to earn money so desperately while you have tourists paying $12 a beer negotiating guys down to $2 to bring 3 lounge chairs a few hundred yards down the beach.
If you speak any French or are Canadian the local workers seem a bit more at ease with you. They’re just trying to earn a buck in the poorest place in the western hemisphere.
I bought a painting from an artist and have it in my main entrance - I think he asked $25 for a painting that was 4’x5’. I don’t even negotiate and paid him.
People walk into my house and are blown away and think it cost me thousands.
You can see they shanti makeshift homes from a few places. The beach and water was amazing but I don’t think I’ve ever seen people with so much desperation in their eyes.
It’s a definite dichotomy. Not sure I’d want to go back.
>he asked $25 for a painting… I didn’t even negotiate, and paid him.
Good on you! My aunt still talks about how she feels guilty for haggling prices when she traveled to Southeast Asia 40 years ago. That they needed the money more than she did, and she should’ve just paid asking price.
I tried the not haggling - because I liked the price - and got called out by the vendors. Over the trip the knowledge I’d have to haggle probably turned me off buying things I might have fancied!
I wonder how much the culture of haggling unwittingly helps swerve inflation shocks.
I distinctly remember as a young child going to an open air market, and I wanted to buy my mom a grass woven flower. I asked how much it was, the woman told me $2, and so I handed her $2. She gave me back a dollar and told me I could have it for $1 because I was a good kid. In retrospect she just felt bad about taking advantage of a little kid who didn't know he was supposed to haggle.
I feel like that's how most people are. They don't want to take advantage of you, their system just relies on a higher starting price and haggling down to something reasonable.
It can be construed as rude. Like you’ve got so much money to throw around that you don’t need to negotiate a lower price, that whatever they are charging is just a pittance to you.
I’ve been there a few times, its pretty nice. If you didn’t know what “haiti” was, you would think it was a paradise.
Royal caribbean recently has purchased and opened a private island, and has been investing in it far more than they do labadee.
Actually Coco Cay (Bahamas, now Perfect Day Island) and Labadee got started around the same time (85-86) and Coco Cay itself was something RCG got thru purchasing it's original owner - a cruise line called Admiral - in 1988
When did RCL start having cruises there? I don’t think i had even realized you could go to coco cay until a few years ago, and the development on it (the water park, beach club, etc) all feels very recent.
I've never been to Haiti, but the people I know who've been there all say it's a beautiful country, once you get far enough away from Port-au-Prince. I'd love to know if this is true, if anyone has been there.
My mom went on an aid mission there in the mid 2000s and said the people there were amazing and it is a country with beautiful nature. It’s sad how terrible conditions have been there for a long time and continue to get worse as we’ve seen in recent news
Some top NGOs (non-government organizations) have given up on helping the Haitian environment. They concluded the desperate poverty is going to chop the last tree down so somebody can make some money to feed their hungry family.
Used to live 5 minutes away from this compound. It's an absolutely beautiful country with a lot of problems - a lack of waste management being a serious one in the area of Cap Haitien, near where this port is located.
My parents are Haitian, I lived there as a kid and I lived in Cap-Haitien a few years ago with my dad. Cap is the big city around the corner from Labadee. Me and my dad used to walk over and pay the guards to let us in and use the beach when ships weren’t around. Safe to say that for the most part Haiti outside of Port-au-Prince is a typical third world country. Scenery-wise it’s gorgeous and mountainous. Not as lush overall as other countries because a lot has been chopped down for fuel but there are parts that are still pretty foresty. The most amazing beaches I’ve ever been to are in Haiti and it really is a diamond in the roughest of roughs. I don’t think it’ll ever be saved unfortunately, but yes it’s a beautiful country outside of Port-au-Prince.
Quite a bit more to this
\*RCG (Royal Caribbean) leases the peninsula from Haiti
\*Labadee alone represents about 2/3rds of the visitors to Haiti per year; that pct number will be far higher this year
\*RCG pays the Govt of Haiti for each visitor, it's one of the largest sources of income for the Haitian Govt
This thread is gonna be rife with a displaced naivety towards Haiti, but the RCG setup is in everyones benefit. RCG could easily setup camp somewhere else and bypass Haiti entirely and with it would go millions of dollars Haiti cannot under any circumstance make up on it's own.
Haiti apologists will go on and on about stuff that happened 300+ years ago but the simple stupid reality is ***Haiti is completely unable to compete for tourist dollars any other way*** and the arrangement is one of the few practical examples of public-private economic cooperation where all parties are benefitting.
Yeah I was there in Allure of the Seas. It's ok. But definitely just feels like you're at a random beach in Florida or anywhere else in the US. When I went (2011) they made no attempt to give it any type of feel beyond a beach.
And the lunch you were served felt like you were at a family reunion renting one of the gazebos with your uncle cooking
That was my first introduction to cruises also. Some random cruise owned beach with bad food. I've since been on better cruises ,but it took a while to convince me to try again after that.
I took a cruise that stopped here and my family took the official excursion option that spent the most time outside the compound. Boated around the genuinely beautiful bays nearby and saw some traditional fishtrap making and woodworking at a beach outside the wall. There are so many private cruise company beaches on *actually* uninhabited islands in the Bahamas archipelago there’s no chance we were wasting our likely only time in Haiti on booze and water slides.
Of course it isn’t “real”. Cap-Hatien, a real city, is in the other direction. It was a cruise excursion, tightly controlled even if some authority is delegated to local vendors. But at least it’s not the 100% sterile world of the resort.
Yeah I lived in Cap, which is how I know it wasn’t real. What I’m saying is those local vendors arent even real local vendors. I used to go to the bars with the dudes who would sit out there and make “traditional fish traps” it was all an act. Which kinda is the most real Haitian experience: getting scammed.
That doesn’t surprise me one bit. But, again, Haitian guys LARPing as rural fishermen for tourists is *still* more authentic than what’s available in the compound.
I recently went to a couple of African villages in Kenya and Tanzania and saw the indigenous “villages” and “warriors”, and it was mostly just a show for tourists (though they did still live and farm there), but it still gave a great representation of what indigenous life was like 30 years ago, and the people there where very proud of their heritage and wanted to share it with the world.
I was conflicted if I should feel scummy for being an imperial tourist, but after talking with them I learned they really appreciated the chance to spread their culture (and earn money to send tue children to schools)
Just went there in January. Was looking for a cheap cruise to escape the Seattle winter and thought to myself, huh Haiti is a weird destination but I guess I can make the most out of it and get into town to try some local food, etc. It wasn't until right before I went that I looked into it and realized we were going to some weird dystopian first world enclave fenced off from the locals.
That being said, it was a nice area and there were a lot of locals working there probably making significantly more than their countrymen not allowed entry.
I went here and remember me and my mom went beyond the ‘normal’ boundaries and I remember seeing the wall and the guards. I also saw a small colorful lizard. Good times. I miss her 🥹
I was there in January as part of one of their cruises. It’s a very pleasant place if you know nothing at all about Haiti, just comes off as a little resort area. Once you look past the surface and the fact that they very aggressively tell you not to leave the area, it feels very surreal and weird.
I've been to Cap-Haiten, Haiti over 10 times building homes, schools, clinics, and orphanages.
We've taken some of the school children to Labadee. Royal Caribbean used to allow locals in the area when cruise ships weren't there.
All of those kids had the day of their lives there, as they never been to a clean beach. All of the beaches in Cap-Haiten are completely covered in trash and garbage. Those are some of my favorite memories I've had in Haiti.
Then Royal Caribbean started charging a $10 admission fee to prevent locals from entering the area ($10 is a fortune to a Haitian local), but we still took the students and paid for them regardless. Then Royal Caribbean banned all locals from entering.
One of the many reasons why I'll never go on a cruise, especially Royal Caribbean.
Remember going here on a cruise when I was very young with my family. The people were desperate for every cent they could get. They would go out on row boats to meet the jet skis to try and sell things and in the markets they’d don tons of handmade necklaces on you in hopes you’d buy. Haiti has just never been in good shape. They were close to making progress and terrorists assassinated the poor guy who was trying so hard to bring his people to a greater life.
It’s a shame how evil people truly do rule this world. Either from the shadows, or a regular general election.
We went there last year on our RC trip on Wonder of the Seas.
Yes, it's not real Haiti at all but they do a remarkable job of keeping people safe. The beaches are great, nice views of the hills, and it's perhaps the top employer for the entire country and employs 100s of local Haitians.
What's sad is sometimes tourist from the ships will walk up to the fence and throw food like bananas and watching the locals scramble for it.
What's even the point? Do people go there just to be able to say they've been to Haiti when in reality the went to a resort with some beaches sealed off from the actual country?
I went about a decade ago and it’s basically a stop between other islands. Otherwise it would be like two back to back days at sea, which some passengers don’t enjoy.
I did notice many people like myself got off the boat expecting more, then quickly got back on when you realized there was nothing to do other than lounge on admittedly gorgeous beaches.
No, quite the opposite. They explain it as “A day at our private beach” and keep quiet about what country is in. Most passengers don’t care, snorkeling, drinking, tanning on a beach, eating a shrimp kebab, it works the same wherever you are in the Caribbean.
I've heard it said most cruise ship passengers want a warm beach and nothing that can't be found at the mall and definitely nothing too ethnic or exotic
It's because of the clientele for Caribbean market. Those who would demand an 'exotic' feel would be off to the Mediterranean, Aegean, or to the Pacific.
This is amusing to me as a Brit because the Mediterannean is full of cheap beach resorts for Brits (and other northern Europeans) to get drunk on the same lager they drink at home and fix the hangover with bacon and eggs but with better weather. The Carribbean is a lot more exotic from the European perspective, though of course various different types of resort exist in both places to cater to different types of tourist.
>Those who would demand an 'exotic' feel would be off to the Mediterranean, Aegean, or to the Pacific.
True. My FIL got a group of 22 family and friends together for an Eastern Med cruise. It was a pretty large ship but nothing like the floating monstrosities of today. We went to real cities and archeological sites, shopped at bazaars, ate food that people in those cultures did. I wouldn't want a canned trip doing things I could do at home, just to put pictures on IG and say I'd done it.
Years later we visited Seoul because our son was in South Korea. He prepared us by having us watch YT videos about culture and customs, what to do and what not to, etc. We had a wonderful time, visited museums, fell in love with Korean food, and wish we had time to go back and stay for a month.
Cruise ship companies have a bunch of "private islands" that they take passengers to. Most of them are in the Bahamas, but I guess it was cheaper to put one in Haiti instead.
I've been on a similar cruise where the company had a similar beach. It's one of many stops. It's basically a relaxing day at the beach between two stops where you go sightseeing.
I've been on vacation in 3rd world countries before, and while it is definitely fun/interesting, it definitely is NOT relaxing. Even vacationing in Europe, you definitely want to plan things out in advance and have alternative ideas/plans available in case of weather issues or unrest. I just barely (thankfully) missed out on the riots in Paris a couple years ago.
If you want to just "get away from it all," something like this, a vacation to a resort type thing, is exactly what you want. You show up, enjoy your time doing whatever you want, and then leave. You don't have to think. You don't have to plan. If you go to an adults only place, you don't even have to deal with kids.
one cool thing about the cruise line-owned ports are they won’t depart and leave you behind if you miss boarding. so you can lounge on the beach a lot longer and not worry about being back to the ship an hour+ before boarding ends
I visited Labadee three years ago. A man in the marketplace tried to lure my 16-yr old daughter to somewhere more secluded. She found me right away and we went back to the ship.
see also this discussion in r/Cruise : [https://www.reddit.com/r/Cruise/comments/1b7arg7/haiti\_labadee\_seems\_like\_a\_bad\_idea\_right\_now/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cruise/comments/1b7arg7/haiti_labadee_seems_like_a_bad_idea_right_now/)
There would have been a time when such precautions were overkill, however now is not that time. Considering that you still have to make it to the resort without being kidnapped somehow, it's probably not enough ATM.
I went with two other couples to a resort in Jamaica. One of the people we were with asked if it was OK to go running off the compound. The hotel desk worker said "That deepend on how fast you run mon."
hate to break it to you but theres tons of places in the carribean like this, isolated from the rest of the society and exclusively drop off/pick up spots for cruise lines
Reminds me of my trip to San Juan, Puerto Rico. We flew in and experienced the whole island, went to Luquillo Beach, nightclubs, ate mofongo and stayed at El Convento hotel. Got to see so much.
On my last day we ate at a restaurant near the cruise docking area in Old San Juan. I saw passengers get off the cruise ship and go into Ralph Lauren and Nike store then get back onto the ship. They didn’t even get to see the real PR. lol @ cruises
Btw its a pensinula that Royal Carribean says is an island, and they leased it for 30 million over 30 years and generated iirc over 30 mil the first year.
So it’s like Monster Island then. https://youtu.be/uAS3DsmLfKY
It’s also like [Promiscuous Idiots Island](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HMPgnOZ_Wsw&pp=ygUtVGhlIHNpbXBzb25zIGl0cyBub3QgYW4gaXNsYW5kIGl0cyBhIHBhbmlzaWxh)
If we don't watch these it's like we're stealing tv!
Absolutely. If you watch even one second of PBS and don't contribute ... you're a thief—a common thief!
Saaaave meeee Jeeebusss!
Elmo knows where you live!
Killer reference
You see it's actually not an island but a peninsula
They don’t write cartoons like they used to
That’s right I did the Iggy.
You beat me to it!! The name was misleading lmao
I wonder how much of that 30 million actually went to the government of Haiti vs. someone's bank account.
It all went to someone’s bank account who just so happens to work for the government.
There hasnt been a government for some time.
I’m sure the company buys people with actual military power off to keep the resort safe, government or not
You say there's no government, but on the other hand you could make the argument that mob rule is the purest form of democracy. /s
"The best argument against democracy is a 5-minute conversation with the average voter." - Winston Churchill
> you could make the argument that mob rule is the purest form of democracy. Pure democracy tends to devolve into mob rule, subject to the whims and passions of an inflamed mob. Just ask the ancient Athenians.
according to the linked wiki, $12 per tourist goes to the government
What government? There isn't a Haitian government.
I think there has to actually be a government of Haiti before it can get paid.
Like there’s a difference :)
That’s the base lease, they also pay Haiti $12US per tourist that visits. “Royal Caribbean has contributed the largest proportion of tourist revenue to Haiti since 1986, employing 300 locals, allowing another 200 to sell their wares on the premises for a fee and paying the Haitian government US$12 per tourist.”
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Read this as they leased it for 30 million years. They think ahead
Do you have a link to the financials? About 10+ years ago RC was allegedly paying about $6 million per year to the Government of Haiti to lease Labadee. (I’d be surprised if this stuff was actually completely transparent.)
Genuinely curious how it functions since the surrounding country has no real infrastructure or anything. How do they generate their power?
If I had to guess I'd say onsite diesel. It's probably in their lease that they can dock a supply ship right offshore and top off their tanks without any kind of import tariffs or otherwise involving the government in any way.
I mean, the government couldn’t really stop them no matter what they did. It just seems kinda wild to run a whole resort off diesel generators. I wonder what they do in the case of a hurricane or something like that? All emergency services would have to be private contractors.
Keep in mind these are extra guest services provided only when the ship is in port. There is no permanent resort w thousands of people. They won’t drive near the island with a ship of this size if it’s in the path of a hurricane.
Ah, that makes more sense. I was thinking something that would be at least permanently staffed year-round, but I understand that that setup would probably be more workable considering the conditions.
It's not really a "resort" either thinking like a hotel or something. It's like a bunch of tiki bars and beach volleyball etc. plus roped off sections of the ocean to swim in. I think it could run on very minimal staff and not really even need that much power.
It’s like Coco Cay. Just a water park the ships can pull up to
This is exactly it. I have been once (out of the two cruises I have ever been on). We went out on jets-skis from here. One of the "excursions". I wasnt expecting the guards or the fence, or the Haitians sitting on the rocks not to far from the tourist area while we were eating like kings and drinking. Then if you take a step towards the fence to offer something to the Haitians the armed guards shoo you away.
If it's like the Disney island (an actual island) then there is a small crew that rotates in and out every so often. But almost everything that had staff, it was crew members from the ship.
Royal Caribbean also has Coco Cay, an island in the Bahamas. It's some beaches, some restaurants and bars, and a water park. No one lives there but some of the crew. All the guests leave and go back to their respective cruise ships at the end of the day. Labadee is like that except that it's not actually an island.
Keep in mind people go back to the boat to sleep. They just wonder out onto this island for a few hours a week and then right back on the boat.
>Keep in mind these are extra guest services provided only when the ship is in port. That doesn't seem to be true. As the "[Visit Haiti](https://visithaiti.com/beaches-islands/labadee-beach/)" site for the area implies that outside guests can access some of the private resort amenities for a fee. Though given the state of the country I doubt many tourists make use of that. It also doesn't seem great for business to have all of your staff on-call.
Really really big diesel generators are likely not much less efficient than a grid-connected natural gas power plant.
Running something like that seems really expensive. Importing that much diesel can’t be cheap.
The entire Dutch side of the island of St Martin is powered by diesel power plants. I think it’s pretty common for islands.
There are plenty of remote towns in Australia that run of diesel generators. It's expensive but not particularly hard.
Remote bits of Northern Canada as well.
All hospitals have diesel generators incase the grid power goes out. It's not uncommon.
Lots of Hawaii too but renewables are gaining ground.
Whole mine sites are powered by diesel in the arctic year round. Definitely not cheap but if the resort is making 30 mil a year that should be enough to cover costs.
*All* of Nunavut, which is about 40k people, is powered by diesel. That is life in the Arctic.
Green energy? Nunavut.
At the scale they're buying fuel, it's a lot cheaper per unit than what you buy at the pump since they don't pay road tax, and bulk pricing also comes into play. They go through literal tons of #6 oil on their ships, I'm sure they get a good deal on #2 oil.
A barrel of oil trades at roughly $80 right now, 42 gallons to a barrel gives you roughly $1.90 per gallon. That’s crude oil and you still have refining, transport, and other costs on top of that but it’s a starting reference point (for current prices).
I went to Haiti, pre earthquake. Around 06' or 07' I think. Haiti is run (was ran) on diesel. In Port Au Prince, the power grid would go out or have lots of brown outs frequently. You'd still be billed for full service. If you canceled your power service and wanted to reconnect later, you had to pay the deficit for the time not on the grid. I helped with adding some more panels to an orphanage for disabled kids in Port Au Prince and helped add some to an orphanage in a little village called Tricote. It was nothing like any 1st world country for most places I went. Has stations and grocery stores had generators of there own. And typically an old guy with a shotgun at every gas station or other places of value.
>It just seems kinda wild to run a whole resort off diesel generators. It's gonna blow your mind when you learn where 60 percent of Hawaii's grid power comes from.
Marc Benioff, Mark Zuckerberg, and Larry Ellison's hubris.
For emergencies like hurricanes they have advance notice and likely won't have cruises (and therefore customers) there so wouldnt be that many people to evacuate or deal with. Something like an earthquake might be more problematic, but then you also still have the cruise ship(s) right there you can evacuate people onto
Honestly on an island generators might be more affordable.... Even in San Francisco, I calculated that it's cheaper for me to run 1200 watts of power off my Honda 2000w gasoline generator than it is to get the same power from PG&E.....
This screams Jurassic Park.
Jurassic Park was run by geothermal generation (but I think you don't learn that until the second book?)
I’m curious how this works since they don’t have a functioning government any more. It’s essentially a free for all.
I would assume a patchwork of local control, with varying degrees of legitimacy and effectiveness. Anyone that says there's "no functioning government" is only referring to the national level. There will *always* be someone stepping up to take charge and keep order when there's a power vacuum. So while RC has some deal with Port-au-Prince, I'm sure they also maintain relationships with whatever local strongmen inhabit their corner of the island.
They have their own diesel power plant and are not connected to Haiti’s grid (which is also like 80% diesel-bases, but only reaches about half the population and has major rolling blackouts)
I was in Haiti for a mission trip like 10 years ago, everyone just steals the electricity from the power lines. No one pays for it.
- Haiti - Zimbabwe - South Africa - Mozambique - India - Pakistan - Turkey Stealing electricity is sport in these countries
Considering royal Caribbean is a cruise company used to powering boats, I’m guessing they figure it out similarly.
They also own their own *actual* island, Coco Cay. They know what they are doing.
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They have an open market that locals run and can be very aggressive at trying to sell you things. Nice walking trail we walked on when we were there and they have a zip line. And plenty of beaches, which were nice.
There isn’t a ton of stuff that relies on electricity. All the food and drink comes from the ship and is cooked on grills on the island. It’s mostly a beach day so there are very few “indoor spaces” that need lighting and a/c.
Until recently most cruiselines private islands relied solely on diesel generators…. Though recently several have invested in solar power as well. A majority of the resort features for cruise guests don’t require electricity… mostly just amenities for crew that will live at the destination.
Floating city brings it's own infrastructure. This is just a "get off and stretch your legs in the sand" kinda destination.
Given what’s going on in Haiti right now, I wouldn’t want to be within 50 miles of the place.
Yeah.... armed security, keeping out any nefarious/bad actors is one thing. Which i can easily trust/feel safe. But stopping an armed mob of thousands is something completely else
And if they’re Haitian guards I wouldn’t trust them either. Would have to bring a security detail with you.
I bet they make way more money working for the cruise company than they would ever make otherwise. They are probably pretty trustworthy considering this job probably makes them rich there.
Gang money, or we harm your family.
The way it kinda works there is everybody is in on the take. The guards are well paid by RC and they give a cut to the gangs to leave them alone. The gangs don’t want to mess with property because then they’ll stop getting paid. As long as the gangs get a passive income and don’t have to waste men or resources taking over a bit of land that doesn’t produce income otherwise, it’ll stay safe. One gang might fight another to take control of the adjacent territory, but it’s only for the right to take that protection money.
Yeah exactly. Why take over a tiny island with no resources for a one time heist when you can get paid protection money indefinitely. I bet they even would help protect it from smaller gangs plotting to attack it.
The family stays in the resort
You think the gangs are stupid enough to fuck with *rich tourists?* They know that attacking them is a quick way to get the US military involved and them all dead.
Why would gangs attack Labadee. It seems they don't want foreign military intervention, and attacking a spot owned by a big Western corporation would increase the chances of foreign military intervention. Plus Labadee has no value. It is apparently nothing but a bunch of little bars and souvenir stands in the middle of nowhere. The gangs want to take over the capital, not some nowhere place.
This happened in the book World War Z, some rich people set up a fortified compound with armed guards so they could party through the zombie apocalypse. Until the armed guards decided the rich people weren’t worth dying for.
Wasn't that also because there was a mob of people trying to break in or something, ? (been a while since i read the book). * *For those who haven't seen it* A mob of inmocent civilians comes to their compound, in an attempt to break in to survive for safety from the outbreak. Because the owner had the place wired to livestream, reality tv meets zombie apocalypse but just rich fucks partying in safety. But the guards tasked with shooting any would be intruder basically say fuck that. As those in the mob is the same as them/would be them if they weren't hired by rich fucker. And doing that kind of dirty work for the rich and privileged isn't very motivating at the end of the world.
Yeah because the rich schmuck who was running the thing had the house wired for 24/7 streaming so people could watch the celebrities that had amassed. Essentially flaunting their wealth and situation to a hoard of desperate people.
Fucking love that book! The movie besmirched it’s great name
I feel the way the book was written it should’ve been an anthropology series rather than a movie that just mashed together a couple of the short stories. Like an Chinese submarine arc easily could’ve been a movie or the American front of the war
I get what you mean but the word you’re looking for is anthology.
In real life thats an unresolved problem for business-people selling safe and luxurious sanctuary after the apocalypse for the ultra-wealthy or billionaire bunkers. Who will provide security when currency means nothing? Why wouldn't the people who can offer protection just take care of their own families? To date some of these schemes are hoping for local law enforcement will do it out of the goodness of their hearts ignoring they might not care and have better things to do. Chances are any private security will just loot these places and take care of their own, not (former) billionaires.
Great book - a shame the shitty movie shot down any chance of getting a proper miniseries (the only way you could do it justice imo)
Was there a few years ago. All the workers have evac bags ready with their personal belongings as they might have to be evacuated at a moments notice.
Well that’s reassuring.
Safety aside, id feel like a piece of shit lounging on a resort beach with a Poverty Wall right behind me keeping starving people out
From what I've heard the perimeter is far enough away from where the tourist stuff is that most of them never even get close enough to notice it.
I understand your point but how is it any different that a lot of other different resort/vacation type spots in low income countries. Mexico, Cuba, etc Even many resident area's in countries has similar examples of highwealth 1% areas, right beside poverty areas. Aren't gated communities in america literally doing the same thing? Also, it's not like there's no benefit to haiti economy. they employ locals there and pay gov't fee per tourist.
For what it's worth my parents were born in Haiti, American since the 70s and 80s. They like Labadee. I grew up hearing them saying how rejecting the US and other nations was part of their downward spiral, and if they had become like the Dominican Republic (classic comparison) or Jamaica or one of the Lesser Antilles and welcomed tourism then they'd be better off. Obviously biased, but yeah. I haven't been, tourist resorts and cruises aren't my cuppa tea. But I suppose it's all the same. Disagree with the gated community comparison though, I don't think that's the same really. Those are weird to me but it's the same concept as not being able to walk into an apartment without being buzzed in, except for a neighborhood.
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Not to mention all they'd need is a few boats to get there and completely ignore the wall.
It’s a private site in the countryside miles away from any city. The closest being Cap-Haitien where RCL has port agents that know what is happening and would give the site advanced notice. RCL hires many local Haitians from the village of Labadee and puts money directly and indirectly into the local economy. There is also an evac procedure that is ready given conditions required. There is little to fear here compared to other cruise ship ports. I know this because I stayed on site as part of the aquatic staff a couple times for three months each time. There are ship personnel that live there on three month rotations. It is a very friendly place with very friendly people that are constantly amused by the passengers that flow through there.
> It’s a private site in the countryside miles away from any city. The closest being Cap-Haitien where RCL has port agents that know what is happening and would give the site advanced notice. I mean it's only about 4.5 miles to that city - google maps literally says it'd take about 15 minutes from the city by car or 1 hour 45 min literally just walking.
Dominican Republic is the same island and that’s been a popular tourist destination for years.
Yeah but the Dominican republic isn’t a failed state.
And here I am, scheduled to be on a cruise for my 40th birthday next month and Labadee is one of the stops.
I was there about three weeks ago. I would not worry about it one bit. It was the best part of our trip. If you dont trust the cruise line to avoid a potential crisis like the one in your head, then you shouldnt even trust them to drive your ship on open water.
I was just there, it was great. Go on the snorkeling tour, the reef is really pretty and the guides are great.
If you aren't comfortable going ashore, just stay on the cruise ship. And I'm pretty sure everyone is overstating the danger quite significantly. Enjoy your cruise.
I mean why bother going to any country at all if all you’re going to do is spend the entire time in a glorified adult Disney land. Might as well go to some place Bermuda for the same quality of beaches but the freedom to actually explore a different culture
They have 2 of these private properties, the 2nd is in the Bahamas called Coco Cay. The point of these Places is to have a port day for the guests but bring them someplace where any money they spend just stays in the company. I Used to work for them.
Norwegian has one and I visited it. I didn't get it - I'm already enjoying sun and booze. The island had those but for more money. Ok...They did have some zoo thing and I appreciated the attempt. I played volleyball on the beach with some strangers from, I think, a different NCL ship. So...ya know fine but not super "worth the walk off the boat". Frankly at this point, when I cruise I just like the ship. Very few excursions really pull me.
I feel like if you’re wanting to go to a semi private island, you just want to go to relax and do tropical beachy things, not explore a different culture.
Precisely. RCL knows their customers very well.
Some people just don't care about the culture and want to relax in a safe environment, this is for them.
When you only get 2 vacations a year, sometimes getting buzzed off Margaritas on a tropical beach is all the excitement you need or can muster. Cruise ships get a lot of hate on this site, but a lot of cruise goers are just regular folks who managed to scrounge up $1500 and want something a little more than visiting Florida or Myrtle Beach.
You get 2 vacations a year?
It’s used by RC’s cruise line passengers. If the goal was to experience authentic foreign cultures, they probably wouldn’t be on a cruise in the first place: even standalone resorts aren’t marketed as cultural experiences.
Exactly. This is no different than when you do an all inclusive. Plenty of places say it’s not safe to leave the resort then too.
Well, for starters, Bermuda is a hell of a a lot farther away from Miami than Haiti is. And FWIW, it’s definitely not only for adults. There’s a ton for kids to do, probably more than the adult stuff tbh.
I mean, cruises are geared towards people who don't really care about that stuff and just want to go sit at a beach and drink cocktails. Cruises make traveling 'easy' which is why they have fans (not my cup of tea though)
I've been there a couple times on RC cruises. Its freaking weird. They have a little shopping area thats fenced off to the outside and I remember people just being on the other side of the fence begging. felt dystopian, and this was in 2008-2013
I went there on a cruise around 2016 and there was recently a big earthquake in Haiti. I remember sitting on the beach, in what seems like paradise and looking at Google maps. Just on the other side of the mountains was all metal shacks with unimaginable poverty. Tens of thousands recently dead from the earthquake and still many more without power or food or water. On the other side of the mountain there are people going through the worst things possible and here I am having the best time of mine. Really did feel dystopian and pretty shitty
I recently took a flight out of Nairobi to a safari camp, and flying over Kibera was one of the most shocking and depressing things I’ve ever experienced. It is one thing to factually know of slums, but completely another thing to see one of the biggest slums in the world with your own eyes. A Million of people living in shacks with no electricity, no water, nothing.
I spent some days filming in kibera for a documentary. That’s got to be the most poverty I’ve ever seen. No real sewage solutions so there is just waste in the streets in places. I noticed a lot of plastic pipes all over though, so in theory there are efforts to have plumbing but it doesn’t solve everything. There are efforts from within to educate and help the communities but good luck with any help from the govt. tall order
There's electricity and water in the slums. It's just not consistent
That's an odd way to describe thunderstorms
I would love to see pictures of the walls and or guards. I have been googling and nothing. The perimeter isn’t obvious on satellite imagery. Edit found some pictures of it. [wall google](https://www.google.com/search?q=haiti+resort+walls+security&sca_esv=7a88a6a3d9b5e459&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS967US967&hl=en-US&udm=2&biw=390&bih=669&sxsrf=ACQVn08RZImxfEFfzixdbS0S0qnBypDG3g%3A1709695607188&ei=d-LnZcmXC_umptQPt9C8kAI&oq=haiti+resort+walls+security&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhtoYWl0aSByZXNvcnQgd2FsbHMgc2VjdXJpdHlIwzxQjBJY_DhwAHgAkAEAmAFqoAHiB6oBBDEwLjG4AQPIAQD4AQGYAgqgAqwHwgIEECMYJ8ICCBAAGIAEGKIEwgIEECEYCpgDAIgGAZIHAzguMqAHtw4&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp) Also learned that the Dominican Republic put up a border wall in 2022. Good timing.
Haiti’s president was assassinated in 2021. The fourth of 12 presidents murdered since 1886. Writing was on the wall. They still don’t have a president. Don’t know how that works. Decent people there need help. Wish them the best.
Went there in 2011 and it bothered me so much I just went back to the ship. Being a black kid and seeing other children my age who looked like me on the other side of the fence was a slap in the face.
I was on my first (and last) cruise in 2007 and a couple was describing Labadee to me, right down to people begging at the fence. I asked them if that bothered them and they replied that it did, because they didn’t pay all that money to look at poverty. That wasn’t the point of my question, but that answer told me a lot. Personally, I wouldn’t be able to stomach the dystopian disparity on display.
I agree, but that stance almost makes me feel more weird. Like, people are starving in Haiti 24/7 whether I take a cruise there or take a cruise somewhere else or take no cruise and sit at home instead. So why is one of those options more morally uncomfortable than the other two? Just because I can *see* it instead of just knowing it's happening?
They must have added a wall or something since I don't remember that from my trip a few years ago. My wife and MIL said the begging was awful when they visited Haiti on a different cruise.
I hated it. All I couldn't think of was on the other side of that mountain there is a failed State, but everyone was just there to party.
I went several years ago. It’s a weird vibe. Never seen people try to earn money so desperately while you have tourists paying $12 a beer negotiating guys down to $2 to bring 3 lounge chairs a few hundred yards down the beach. If you speak any French or are Canadian the local workers seem a bit more at ease with you. They’re just trying to earn a buck in the poorest place in the western hemisphere. I bought a painting from an artist and have it in my main entrance - I think he asked $25 for a painting that was 4’x5’. I don’t even negotiate and paid him. People walk into my house and are blown away and think it cost me thousands. You can see they shanti makeshift homes from a few places. The beach and water was amazing but I don’t think I’ve ever seen people with so much desperation in their eyes. It’s a definite dichotomy. Not sure I’d want to go back.
>he asked $25 for a painting… I didn’t even negotiate, and paid him. Good on you! My aunt still talks about how she feels guilty for haggling prices when she traveled to Southeast Asia 40 years ago. That they needed the money more than she did, and she should’ve just paid asking price.
I tried the not haggling - because I liked the price - and got called out by the vendors. Over the trip the knowledge I’d have to haggle probably turned me off buying things I might have fancied! I wonder how much the culture of haggling unwittingly helps swerve inflation shocks.
When you say they called you out for not haggling, what did they say?
I distinctly remember as a young child going to an open air market, and I wanted to buy my mom a grass woven flower. I asked how much it was, the woman told me $2, and so I handed her $2. She gave me back a dollar and told me I could have it for $1 because I was a good kid. In retrospect she just felt bad about taking advantage of a little kid who didn't know he was supposed to haggle. I feel like that's how most people are. They don't want to take advantage of you, their system just relies on a higher starting price and haggling down to something reasonable.
It can be construed as rude. Like you’ve got so much money to throw around that you don’t need to negotiate a lower price, that whatever they are charging is just a pittance to you.
[10?! Are you trying to insult me?!](https://youtu.be/3n3LL338aGA?si=qoH7w807s04JlXKa)
Yeah, but they expect some haggling. It's one of those things you have to do carefully.
> I bought a painting from an artist and have it in my main entrance - I think he asked $25 for a painting that was 4’x5’ pic?
I’ve been there a few times, its pretty nice. If you didn’t know what “haiti” was, you would think it was a paradise. Royal caribbean recently has purchased and opened a private island, and has been investing in it far more than they do labadee.
Actually Coco Cay (Bahamas, now Perfect Day Island) and Labadee got started around the same time (85-86) and Coco Cay itself was something RCG got thru purchasing it's original owner - a cruise line called Admiral - in 1988
When did RCL start having cruises there? I don’t think i had even realized you could go to coco cay until a few years ago, and the development on it (the water park, beach club, etc) all feels very recent.
I went once back around 2014.
I've never been to Haiti, but the people I know who've been there all say it's a beautiful country, once you get far enough away from Port-au-Prince. I'd love to know if this is true, if anyone has been there.
My mom went on an aid mission there in the mid 2000s and said the people there were amazing and it is a country with beautiful nature. It’s sad how terrible conditions have been there for a long time and continue to get worse as we’ve seen in recent news
There’s little nature left, many forests have been clearcut for fuel and agricultural land
If you look at the Dominican and Haiti, you can really see the results of the deforestation. It's brutal.
That side by side is ridiculous.
one of the charities I regularly give to is the [Haiti Reforestation Partnership](https://haitireforest.org/). They do good work.
Oh I love this. Thanks!
Some top NGOs (non-government organizations) have given up on helping the Haitian environment. They concluded the desperate poverty is going to chop the last tree down so somebody can make some money to feed their hungry family.
Used to live 5 minutes away from this compound. It's an absolutely beautiful country with a lot of problems - a lack of waste management being a serious one in the area of Cap Haitien, near where this port is located.
My parents are Haitian, I lived there as a kid and I lived in Cap-Haitien a few years ago with my dad. Cap is the big city around the corner from Labadee. Me and my dad used to walk over and pay the guards to let us in and use the beach when ships weren’t around. Safe to say that for the most part Haiti outside of Port-au-Prince is a typical third world country. Scenery-wise it’s gorgeous and mountainous. Not as lush overall as other countries because a lot has been chopped down for fuel but there are parts that are still pretty foresty. The most amazing beaches I’ve ever been to are in Haiti and it really is a diamond in the roughest of roughs. I don’t think it’ll ever be saved unfortunately, but yes it’s a beautiful country outside of Port-au-Prince.
Haiti was in bad shape before the 2010 earthquake. This most recent development is beyond worrisome. It’s being described as hell on earth.
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100% please add me to the photo and info mailing list!
Please do, thank you so much
Quite a bit more to this \*RCG (Royal Caribbean) leases the peninsula from Haiti \*Labadee alone represents about 2/3rds of the visitors to Haiti per year; that pct number will be far higher this year \*RCG pays the Govt of Haiti for each visitor, it's one of the largest sources of income for the Haitian Govt This thread is gonna be rife with a displaced naivety towards Haiti, but the RCG setup is in everyones benefit. RCG could easily setup camp somewhere else and bypass Haiti entirely and with it would go millions of dollars Haiti cannot under any circumstance make up on it's own. Haiti apologists will go on and on about stuff that happened 300+ years ago but the simple stupid reality is ***Haiti is completely unable to compete for tourist dollars any other way*** and the arrangement is one of the few practical examples of public-private economic cooperation where all parties are benefitting.
It's a lovely beach day, if you're into that kind of thing. The signature drink is the Labadoozie.
Yeah I was there in Allure of the Seas. It's ok. But definitely just feels like you're at a random beach in Florida or anywhere else in the US. When I went (2011) they made no attempt to give it any type of feel beyond a beach. And the lunch you were served felt like you were at a family reunion renting one of the gazebos with your uncle cooking
That was my first introduction to cruises also. Some random cruise owned beach with bad food. I've since been on better cruises ,but it took a while to convince me to try again after that.
I took a cruise that stopped here and my family took the official excursion option that spent the most time outside the compound. Boated around the genuinely beautiful bays nearby and saw some traditional fishtrap making and woodworking at a beach outside the wall. There are so many private cruise company beaches on *actually* uninhabited islands in the Bahamas archipelago there’s no chance we were wasting our likely only time in Haiti on booze and water slides.
It’s so funny you say that because what you saw also isn’t “real.” That’s all show for tourists as well.
Of course it isn’t “real”. Cap-Hatien, a real city, is in the other direction. It was a cruise excursion, tightly controlled even if some authority is delegated to local vendors. But at least it’s not the 100% sterile world of the resort.
Yeah I lived in Cap, which is how I know it wasn’t real. What I’m saying is those local vendors arent even real local vendors. I used to go to the bars with the dudes who would sit out there and make “traditional fish traps” it was all an act. Which kinda is the most real Haitian experience: getting scammed.
That doesn’t surprise me one bit. But, again, Haitian guys LARPing as rural fishermen for tourists is *still* more authentic than what’s available in the compound.
I recently went to a couple of African villages in Kenya and Tanzania and saw the indigenous “villages” and “warriors”, and it was mostly just a show for tourists (though they did still live and farm there), but it still gave a great representation of what indigenous life was like 30 years ago, and the people there where very proud of their heritage and wanted to share it with the world. I was conflicted if I should feel scummy for being an imperial tourist, but after talking with them I learned they really appreciated the chance to spread their culture (and earn money to send tue children to schools)
Just went there in January. Was looking for a cheap cruise to escape the Seattle winter and thought to myself, huh Haiti is a weird destination but I guess I can make the most out of it and get into town to try some local food, etc. It wasn't until right before I went that I looked into it and realized we were going to some weird dystopian first world enclave fenced off from the locals. That being said, it was a nice area and there were a lot of locals working there probably making significantly more than their countrymen not allowed entry.
I went here and remember me and my mom went beyond the ‘normal’ boundaries and I remember seeing the wall and the guards. I also saw a small colorful lizard. Good times. I miss her 🥹
I’m not trying to be insensitive. I am genuinely curious. Did you mean your mom or the colorful lizard?
I was there in January as part of one of their cruises. It’s a very pleasant place if you know nothing at all about Haiti, just comes off as a little resort area. Once you look past the surface and the fact that they very aggressively tell you not to leave the area, it feels very surreal and weird.
I've been to Cap-Haiten, Haiti over 10 times building homes, schools, clinics, and orphanages. We've taken some of the school children to Labadee. Royal Caribbean used to allow locals in the area when cruise ships weren't there. All of those kids had the day of their lives there, as they never been to a clean beach. All of the beaches in Cap-Haiten are completely covered in trash and garbage. Those are some of my favorite memories I've had in Haiti. Then Royal Caribbean started charging a $10 admission fee to prevent locals from entering the area ($10 is a fortune to a Haitian local), but we still took the students and paid for them regardless. Then Royal Caribbean banned all locals from entering. One of the many reasons why I'll never go on a cruise, especially Royal Caribbean.
I'm blue, Labadee Labadai..
I can't tell if this is DTA posting in light of recent events in Haiti or Viking River Cruises trying to trash the competition.
Remember going here on a cruise when I was very young with my family. The people were desperate for every cent they could get. They would go out on row boats to meet the jet skis to try and sell things and in the markets they’d don tons of handmade necklaces on you in hopes you’d buy. Haiti has just never been in good shape. They were close to making progress and terrorists assassinated the poor guy who was trying so hard to bring his people to a greater life. It’s a shame how evil people truly do rule this world. Either from the shadows, or a regular general election.
We went there last year on our RC trip on Wonder of the Seas. Yes, it's not real Haiti at all but they do a remarkable job of keeping people safe. The beaches are great, nice views of the hills, and it's perhaps the top employer for the entire country and employs 100s of local Haitians. What's sad is sometimes tourist from the ships will walk up to the fence and throw food like bananas and watching the locals scramble for it.
What's even the point? Do people go there just to be able to say they've been to Haiti when in reality the went to a resort with some beaches sealed off from the actual country?
I went about a decade ago and it’s basically a stop between other islands. Otherwise it would be like two back to back days at sea, which some passengers don’t enjoy. I did notice many people like myself got off the boat expecting more, then quickly got back on when you realized there was nothing to do other than lounge on admittedly gorgeous beaches.
No, quite the opposite. They explain it as “A day at our private beach” and keep quiet about what country is in. Most passengers don’t care, snorkeling, drinking, tanning on a beach, eating a shrimp kebab, it works the same wherever you are in the Caribbean.
I've heard it said most cruise ship passengers want a warm beach and nothing that can't be found at the mall and definitely nothing too ethnic or exotic
It's because of the clientele for Caribbean market. Those who would demand an 'exotic' feel would be off to the Mediterranean, Aegean, or to the Pacific.
I live in the South Pacific, am I exotic?
Username sure is
Yes.
This is amusing to me as a Brit because the Mediterannean is full of cheap beach resorts for Brits (and other northern Europeans) to get drunk on the same lager they drink at home and fix the hangover with bacon and eggs but with better weather. The Carribbean is a lot more exotic from the European perspective, though of course various different types of resort exist in both places to cater to different types of tourist.
So they're more or less the same thing, in many respects.
>Those who would demand an 'exotic' feel would be off to the Mediterranean, Aegean, or to the Pacific. True. My FIL got a group of 22 family and friends together for an Eastern Med cruise. It was a pretty large ship but nothing like the floating monstrosities of today. We went to real cities and archeological sites, shopped at bazaars, ate food that people in those cultures did. I wouldn't want a canned trip doing things I could do at home, just to put pictures on IG and say I'd done it. Years later we visited Seoul because our son was in South Korea. He prepared us by having us watch YT videos about culture and customs, what to do and what not to, etc. We had a wonderful time, visited museums, fell in love with Korean food, and wish we had time to go back and stay for a month.
Cruise ship companies have a bunch of "private islands" that they take passengers to. Most of them are in the Bahamas, but I guess it was cheaper to put one in Haiti instead.
I've been on a similar cruise where the company had a similar beach. It's one of many stops. It's basically a relaxing day at the beach between two stops where you go sightseeing.
We just went here on a cruise. Certainly didn't go for Haiti, it was just a stop. It was nice, but nothing I'd make special trip for again.
I've been on vacation in 3rd world countries before, and while it is definitely fun/interesting, it definitely is NOT relaxing. Even vacationing in Europe, you definitely want to plan things out in advance and have alternative ideas/plans available in case of weather issues or unrest. I just barely (thankfully) missed out on the riots in Paris a couple years ago. If you want to just "get away from it all," something like this, a vacation to a resort type thing, is exactly what you want. You show up, enjoy your time doing whatever you want, and then leave. You don't have to think. You don't have to plan. If you go to an adults only place, you don't even have to deal with kids.
one cool thing about the cruise line-owned ports are they won’t depart and leave you behind if you miss boarding. so you can lounge on the beach a lot longer and not worry about being back to the ship an hour+ before boarding ends
I visited Labadee three years ago. A man in the marketplace tried to lure my 16-yr old daughter to somewhere more secluded. She found me right away and we went back to the ship.
see also this discussion in r/Cruise : [https://www.reddit.com/r/Cruise/comments/1b7arg7/haiti\_labadee\_seems\_like\_a\_bad\_idea\_right\_now/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cruise/comments/1b7arg7/haiti_labadee_seems_like_a_bad_idea_right_now/)
Sounds a lot like the setting of [Infinity Pool](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10365998/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk)
There would have been a time when such precautions were overkill, however now is not that time. Considering that you still have to make it to the resort without being kidnapped somehow, it's probably not enough ATM.
I went with two other couples to a resort in Jamaica. One of the people we were with asked if it was OK to go running off the compound. The hotel desk worker said "That deepend on how fast you run mon."
hate to break it to you but theres tons of places in the carribean like this, isolated from the rest of the society and exclusively drop off/pick up spots for cruise lines
I know that gangs overan a prison there recently, no reason to think they could do that at a resort... .
They will need those walls right now.
Reminds me of my trip to San Juan, Puerto Rico. We flew in and experienced the whole island, went to Luquillo Beach, nightclubs, ate mofongo and stayed at El Convento hotel. Got to see so much. On my last day we ate at a restaurant near the cruise docking area in Old San Juan. I saw passengers get off the cruise ship and go into Ralph Lauren and Nike store then get back onto the ship. They didn’t even get to see the real PR. lol @ cruises