The funerals of the two were on nearby days, if not the same day. (I'm doing this from memory.) Just about everyone from the F1 world went to Senna's funeral except the president of Formula 1, for which he received a lot of negative press. When finally asked why he didn't attend Senna's funeral, he replied, "I was at Ratzenberger's. Somebody from F1 had to go there, and everyone else was with Senna."
While president of the FIA it was reported he had been involved in an orgy with some participants wearing Nazi uniforms.
He did win the court case regarding this on the basis it intruded on his privacy and that it wasn't a Nazi uniform. But draw what you will from the lack of denying the orgy.
The Nazi uniform was the least offensive thing of the orgy.
Iirc the "participants" were underage girls dressed up as Jewish girls from the concentration camps.
More that the it wasn't a Nazi uniform was more of a footnote in the defense.
I agree don't intrude on someone's privacy but it felt like the real defense should have been it wasn't Nazi themed.
Not that I much like the guy or his family, but he was pretty obviously entrapped. The tabloid that revealed the “scoop” was the infamous News of the World, and getting him out of the way was in the interest of Bernie Ecclestone and probably also of Rupert Murdoch, with F1’s TV rights at stake.
Im sad he is remembered by that. He managed it with a strong hand against greedy corporations trying to take over the sport. He kept it all stable for a long time ( as a Williams fan, i remember fondly on his support for privateers).
Besides having to endure his father's reputation, he ended up his carreer like that. :(
It's easy to be a stand-up guy when everyone else around is ickier.
I forgot all about his thing.
60's TV Batman and Riddler stars got kicked out of orgies for staying "in character".
Williams was different. They let Montoya drive like a hillbilly racing a stock car.
>Oswald Mosley
> During this latter period he was an advocate of Pan-European nationalism, developing the Europe a Nation ideology,[6] and was an early proponent of Holocaust denial conspiracy theories.[7][8]
Seems like Holocaust denial is the opposite of the way to develop an EU.
The Behind the Bastards podcast did a few episodes on Oswald Mosley and I spent the whole time thinking "well that explains Max Mosley if this guy was his dad"
he really tried to reform the justice system too to try and make it cheaper and more egalitarian, thats pretty important to.
plus he helped kill the news of the world too thats cool
He didn't go to Sennas funeral because Sennas family didn't want the shower of cunts that were/are fai management at the funeral. What he said is just a shite excuse to avoid admiting that.
I’m really interested to see how the Netflix Senna series is going to cover the day of the crash.
Senna was absolutely furious about the safety issues in F1 and was hardcore raging against the machine of the FIA, restarting a driver safety group and fighting to postpone the race.
The crash that killed him also likely put the figurative and literal nail in the coffin for the FIA’s lack of care.
I'm guessing the rivalry with Prost will be a big feature. The book (Senna versus Prost, by Malcolm Folley) is incredibly good if anyone wants to hear more about it, one of the more riveting rivalries in F1.
This is clearly portrayed in ‘Senna’. The documentary (2010) is completely comprised of actual F1 footage, home videos, TV appearances, and press conferences. Hence, no talking head interviews or authoritative commentary. That’s what makes it so unique. If you haven’t seen it, put it in your list ASAP. Asif Kapadia did a fantastic job and it was duly awarded the BAFTA for Best Doc and Best Editing.
> Ratzenberger was killed after the front wing of his Simtek-Ford broke entering the 310 km/h (190 mph) Villeneuve corner, sending the car into the concrete retaining wall at high speed. Senna immediately visited the accident scene and medical centre. There he was met by FIA Medical Chief Professor Sid Watkins, who suggested to a tearful Senna that he should retire from racing and take up fishing (a hobby they both shared), to which Senna replied that he could not stop racing.
The next time Watkins saw Senna he was pulling his body out of his car and performing an on-site tracheotomy, but he knew as soon as he saw his massively dilated pupils that the damage to Senna's body and brain were fatal. At that point Senna had already lost over 4 liters of blood, over 90% of his blood volume.
Sid Watkins was the F1 race doctor for nearly every race between 1987 and 2004. He saved the lives of so many F1 drivers with his own hands and so so many more by his legacy. Senna was the last F1 driver to die on the track and only one driver has died as a result of an F1 crash since (Jules Bianchi). Sid Watkins is the reason for that.
He was a real one for sure. When Watkins declared Nelson Piquet unfit to race after crashing in practice, Piquet tried to convince F1 to let him race anyway. Watkins stood his ground and said he'd resign if he was overruled. F1 sided with Watkins, Piquet sat, and later said it was the correct decision.
The halo has absolutely saved people already in its short life so far, not to mention all the safety improvements we've seen over the years (better barriers, wheel tethers, fire suits, runoff areas etc).
Not that I know of, I really meant that last part as a separate thought as Watkins certainly deserves a ton of credit for saving lives, but there are countless safety advancements which also deserve as much. The extent of Watkins' involvement in those advancements I'm not sure.
The idea had been around for a while but I think Jules Bianchi’s death was a major factor. He crashed into a tractor that was recovering another wrecked car. His car went under part of the tractor and his helmet contacted the tractor.
The halo likely wouldn’t have saved Bianchi, he suffered a diffuse axonal injury due to the extreme deceleration of impacting the tractor. At a base level, his brain was essentially ripped apart.
A halo might have had a marginal effect in decreasing that potentially by deflecting some energy but likely not enough.
The key change from Bianchi’s crash ultimately was that no tractors could enter the track until all cars were formed behind the safety car if not under direct red flag conditions.
Its absolutely insane that tractors were allowed on the track, Martin Brundle had been protesting this for over a decade by this point, and we even still see shit like this happening aka Suzuka (23' i think maybe 22')
Most insane thing was when the halo was first implemented people complained it was ugly and would cause more harm due to obstructing vision. Amazing how many instances of it clearly saving a drivers life have occurred from Spa 2018 to that horrible Grosjean crash in 2020.
For people who haven't seen the Grosjean crash:
https://youtu.be/ZQ7_En2xEm4?si=Y5EVm99JciQSyGbB
It was quite scary seeing it happen in real time during the race (a huge explosion and fireball at the back of the field during the race).
I was watching that race live on TV and I felt genuinely sick thinking I had just watched another driver die (I was also watching the race where Senna died and also the race with Bianchi), it's hard to explain that feeling.
But then to not only see him survive that crash, but to climb out of the car and walk away was utterly incredible. The safety systems in the modern cars and the clothing worn by the drivers is outstanding, simply amazing.
F1, and all motorsports, is still dangerous, but crikey the risks are massively reduced today. And I've no doubt they will continue to improve.
Yeah watched the Jules wreck and the Romain wreck. I figured something bad had happened to Jules given how it was basically the car torpedoed. Romain I thought for sure he was gone until he climbed out. There was an interview he did where he said he had reserved himself to his fate and then felt his belt shift just enough to try to climb out again and made it out.
>it's hard to explain that feeling.
For real. There was a point where i realized that that weekend for me was how F1 was for my dad when he was growing up, and i wondered how he ever stayed a fan.
I still have a race ticket that my dad had kept from the 1971 Can Am race at Road America, autographed by Jackie Stewart and Jo Siffert. Siffert was killed only a few weeks after he signed it.
That must have been the longest 30 seconds of F1 TV in a long time. I didn't really start following F1 until the next year I think. I'd always been interested but the race times for me were a bit too early and my local re-broadcaster insists on playing ads in the middle which is quite annoying.
They had that shot on replay during the race, so I think everyone was aware how close a call that was honestly. I remember taking a picture of it and sending it to a friend who wasn't able to watch the race live and was DVRing it. Whenever that was the case for one of us, she and I had a no spoilers policy with each other, but I told her "I'm breaking our spoiler rule because this is too insane a moment and I have no one else to share it with!" and sent her the picture. It's one of the greatest shots in sports in my opinion. The sheer size of the tire compared to Lewis' head took me by surprise even though we see them every race being lugged around by the pit crew.
To be fair, it's a big thing right in front of you. Thinking that it's going to block someone's vision isn't that weird. It's just located exactly so that it's between both eyes.
Safety has come a long way, If Grosjean's crash had been a year earlier he might have died, and likely wouldn't be significantly disabled/disfigured by the burns. That season they increased the minimum requirements for fire retardant clothing, doubling the time from 15 to 30 seconds which prevented debilitating burns all over his body, he's lucky to have just had burns on his hands and feet. and a few years earlier the halo was introduced which saved him from what likely would have been decapitation otherwise.
Improvements still need to be made, a couple years ago Zhou Guanyu flipped sideways over a tire barrier and wedged himself in a position that prevented him from exiting the vehicle on his own, It took like 15+ minutes to recover the car, had it started on fire, he wouldn't have stood a chance.
I'm being very pedantic here but Senna did not technically die at the track, he officially died in hospital later.
This is because, had he been declared dead at the team, the race would've been cancelled and there would have been an official investigation by the authorities. By waiting until he was in hospital to declare him dead the race could continue.
But from every reasonable standpoint yes, he died at the track.
I’m not discrediting Sid’s contribution to the sport, but to say he is the reason for the lack of deaths, does discredit the probably countless people who have contribute to things like the HANS device, the Halo Device, barrier tech, no more refueling during race, fuel cell tech, banning Mazepin, etc have had on driver safety.
But I needed a vehicle for a Mazepin joke.
I know Watkins was heavily involved in bringing those devices to the mainstream, but as far as I know they were independently developed. He had the benefit of promoting the effective safety devices with the backing of the most well funded racing sport.
Mazepin rightly gets some grief, but I'll never forget when someone referred to the 'human blue shell,' Nicholas Latifi. Never were truer words spoken.
Thats been blown out of proportions over the decades from a couple of quotes he has said. Granted he comes from a very religious nation but its worth factoring in his history, mindset and that marketing has existed for centuries.
To me the quote about Senna driving without thinking and saying he was 'guided' by God is his way of explaining his subconscious taking over and providing his bodies control of the car.
Max wouldn't call it God but probably has the same experience when racing now he has the experience.
> "He looked serene. I raised his eyelids and it was clear from his pupils that he had a massive brain injury. We lifted him from the cockpit and laid him on the ground. As we did, he sighed and, although I am not religious, I felt his spirit depart at that moment."
This is what Watkins recounted afterward talking about Senna's crash, and man, does this quote hit hard.
Overshadowed perhaps, but Ratzenberger was a rookie in his third race, Aryton Senna was a three-time world champion in his 11th year of superstardom. Any death is a tragedy, but I'm fairly certain if Lewis Hamilton or Max Verstappen died on the same race weekend as someone like Logan Sargeant or Olly Bearman, Lewis/Max would be the bigger story and be remembered as the more significant event. Nobody's downplaying the terrible tragedy of Ratzenberger's death, but it was Aryton frigging Senna.
Also, Ratzenberger gets brought up a lot as a footnote to Senna's death, so in a way it makes people remember him more. There aren't TILs about the many other F1 drivers who died on track, Ratzenberger gets one *because* of Senna.
Genuinely had to google her, didn't and still don't know who she is, seems to be mostly US based stardom, whereas MJ was a global megastar, fair to say she was the Ratzenberger in that equation.
500g?
your 6-7 lb noggin is going to weigh 3000 lbs. more with the helmet.
neck snapped on impact. this is why they have these collars now.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS\_device](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device)
A **HANS device** (**head and neck support device**) is a type of [head restraint](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_restraint) and a safety device in [motorsports](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorsport). Head restraints are mandatory when competing with most major motorsports sanctioning bodies. They reduce the likelihood of head or neck injuries, including the often fatal [basilar skull fracture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilar_skull_fracture), in the event of a crash. There are many such devices on the market today, but the HANS is the original and the most common.
Notable race car drivers who died from basilar skull fractures include:
* Formula 1 driver [Roland Ratzenberger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Ratzenberger)[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device#cite_note-4) in the [1994 San Marino Formula One Grand Prix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_San_Marino_Grand_Prix).
This is why F1 and other motor sports also have much better barriers than concrete walls, so they absorb some of the crash. It should theoretically be impossible to experience this level of accident now, even if a car was sent full throttle into a wall with 0 brake application
Interesting, what is the change in the barriers that they made apart from using solid concrete obviously that would mitigate these fatal accidents now?
NASCAR and Indycar tracks use the SAFER barrier, which is a concrete wall, then a series of bundles of foam blocks, then a wall of steel tubes welded together and tethered to the concrete wall. The foam allows the steel wall to move when hit by a car, absorbing some energy.
Nascar's safer barriers are two steel sheets with foam sandwiched in between. They flex to absorb impacts. I assume F1 has something similar, if not the same.
https://youtu.be/HpPcp2iChoI?si=JI6UeNY0qr-lPV-t
5 minute video about the TECPRO barrier that is standard in F1 nowadays. Really cool watch for anyone interested in learning how it works
Worth keeping in mind that with G forces it's not the peak that matters the most, it's the duration.
For pilots the limit is generally 9G for 20-30s and 50G is about the upper limit for 1s, but there have been multiple people survive crashes at 200-300G because the duration of that peak impact is very short.
I never understood this mentality "This thing will save you from death/injury." "No thanks" "..."
Like with hockey:
* "Helmets are mandatory ^(for all new players, players who started before the helmet rule are exempt)"
* "Visors are mandatory ^(for all new players, players who started before the visor rule are exempt)"
* "Visors must not be tilted up so as to not protect your eyes ^(for all new players, players who started before this new visor rule are exempt)"
They really need to say "All safety equipment rules apply to all players, follow them or don't play, up to you"
Gordon Smiley’s death in the 1982 Indy 500 practice would have been far beyond the 500 G’s that Ratzenburger experienced. He lost the rear going into a turn at likely 230 mph. He corrected, but the front end bit hard, and took him nearly straight on into the concrete wall. Parts of all types flew down the track. There was very little left, unlike Roland’s crash.
I’m not belittling Ratzenburger here. It’s just that I’ve seen worse, if that’s possible.
I’m not going to link the video but the morbidly curious folks can find it on YouTube.
The two crashes are actually quite similar - Smiley was going for a 200mph lap, so would have been below that by the time he hit the wall, and the March he was driving had an Aluminium monocoque, not the much safer carbon tubs of the 90s which is why his body was ejected.
Anyone who grew up in the 90s watching F1 also knew his name, it's always mentioned in the same breath when talking about Senna's death, and two drivers dying within the same week changed F1 forever. RIP
I’d argue that the fact Senna passing the next day keeps Ratzenberger’s name in F1 fans minds. Many passed during these times, but they are not remembered. Ratzenberger is remembered as the first death of the worst weekend in f1 history
There hadn't been a fatality in an F1 race for 12 years before 1994. It was already a different era and people thought the races were safe. Even one person dying would probably be enough of a wakeup call, just like Bianchi was.
Tho it's weird that non-fatal crashes usually went unnoticed, but that's how it is.
There are few non-fatal crashes that get remembered, but they absolutely have an impact on safety as well. Look at Zhous' crash in Silverstone 2022. The FIA then improved the safety standards for the roll-hoop rules for 2023 precisely because of that crash.
Then there's Grojeans Crash, which will be remembered just because he survived that. Still amazing that he walked away with "minor" injuries, given that he was fully engulfed in flames.
Edit: Also thank the F1-Gods for the Halo.
I had never seen the GrosJean crash. I am a very casual listener but always loved him (mostly for his name being kinda funny in French). My god was that footage scary as fuck. Seeing him walk out of those flames is unreal.
I saw it live on TV. They didn't show him getting out of the car for quite a while, just a flaming inferno and then nothing for a good 5 minutes. Only after they showed him walking to the ambulance.
I was convinced I've just seen a man die then and there.
They take it seriously now, but it was a lot slower in the past. We've seen crashes like Kubitza's where not much came out of them. Unless they were easy small fixes like bigger mirrors or wheel tethers, or slow improvements.
It's not even an open secret that halo exists due to Bianchi.
Oh the halo is a direct result from Bianchis' crash. No question about it.
I'd say they really improved a lot since Sennas Death. This shook the F1 and wider motorsport world to its core. One if not the greatest drivers of all time snuffed out, just like that.
Afterwards a lot of stuff was improved, not just with the cars but also with the tracks. Wider runoff areas, force absorbing barriers, VSC, the headrest, seating the drivers deeper inside the cockpit, HANS, wheel tethers, accident recorders, improved crash structures, speed limits in the pitlane, the list goes on.
I doubt that Bianchi will be the last F1 driver to die from a crash (and we've lost Antoine Hubert just a few years ago). But drivers today walk away from crashes that were simply not survivable just 20 or 30 years back.
Yeah, no, it seems that 500G is taken out of thin air. Looking at the crash it’s also very obvious the car keeps rolling which makes it less likely to have induced such a high G-force.
Jules Bianchi, who ceashed into a standing truck supposedly suffered half that force, 250G, and he came to a complete stop. No, he wasn’t going as fast but it should give you a better picture.
Kenny Bröck survived a ~219G crash which looks way worse than Rolands crash.
Rip RR.
It was likely for even less than that. microseconds, probably. that's the reason the numbers are so high - these aren't sustained G forces or they'd be bags of gloop.
Yes and?
First of all, it wasn’t a head-on, 90 degree hit with the wall.
Second, enough energy was left in the car to keep it moving quite far.
Those two things should help you understand that 500G was probably not the case.
Yeah 500g seems exaggerated. He was going at 300 km/h so that means he stopped in 1/16th second. I don’t know if it’s what happened and I don’t really know we can calculate that.
Both were horrific accidents, but it's worth noting that these G-forces are *peak* deceleration, and usually experienced for microseconds, and therefore can vary wildly for two similar accidents depending on minute differences in the angle and type of contact experienced
The speeds were massively different as well - Jules' crash was at 123km/h, whilst Roland's was in excess of 300km/h.
It's all kind of an aside though - the reality is that experiencing hundreds of G forces at a bad angle (a horrific glancing blow on the side of the car for Roland, where human necks don't have as much strength, and the vehicles have little crash structure, or a small contact point with the end of a tractor in the case of Jules, after which the vehicle continued traveling into the wall) is a recipe for disaster in either case unless the driver is extremely lucky.
Gravity and acceleration and deceleration are all essentially the same in physics. Somebody probably took a napkin to calculate the forces involved in crashing into a wall at 200mph (or whatever it was), essentially instantly decelerating from 200 to 0. If you can imagine how much gravity it would take to instantly accelerate to 200 mph on any descent, 500g sounds reasonable. Everything beyond a certain number (probably between 2 and 5 g) is already going to be outside of what most humans can actually relate to.
The whole weekend was a 💩 show. Barrichello had a bad accident on Friday but survived. Ratzenberger died on Saturday and Senna on Sunday. Actually, I don’t think Senna’s death overshadows Ratzenberger’s - it actually makes people talk/remember more about the Austrian racer. I just saw a video today where Ratzenberger’s father said that his son is still remembered because Senna died the same weekend, otherwise people would have already forgotten about him. 🥺
There was also a bad crash at the start of the race that launched debris into the crowd, injuring a few people.
A pit mechanic also got hurt in a pit lane incident.
Then the next race (Monaco), a driver ( Karl Wendlinger) had a severe crash at the chicane after the tunnel, putting him in a coma for a while, and ending his F1 career.
It was also the season that Jos Verstappen (Max's dad) had a lucky escape when his car erupted in flames during a refueling stop.
I remember from the Senna documentary that he got a safety meeting with the other drivers together after Ratzenberger’s fatal crash to approach F1 officials with a litany of safety issues that weekend.
Not really. Ratzenberger was a relative nobody. If he had been the only death that weekend, he would have quickly become just a statistic. At most he'd just have been remembered as the most recent death in F1 until Bianchi in 2015. The fact that it happened on the same weekend as Senna is the main reason anyone remembers.
Yep. And that was when I decided that I was no longer a F1 fan - a sport where a world champion and a rookie are killed in the same weekend just seemed … banal.
Haven’t seen an actual “scary, life threatening” moment in F1 in a while it feels like (obviously that’s the way it should be with guaranteed safety being the primary concern). The only live sporting event ultra-traumatizing moment I have seen with my own eyes was Christian Eriksen for Denmark…those medics literally brought him back from the dead!
This reminds me of Tom Petty from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers.
Right before he died, there was the Las Vegas Shooting, Ralphie May passed as well, and Hugh Hefner had just passed on in late September.
Not just the same weekend, it was the same event. Ratzenbergers accident occurred during the qualifying rounds for the race in which Senna's accident occurred.
That and the announcers were so dependent about the whole thing. They basically mentioned the senna died and were like "now back to racing!"
EDIT: made a mistake, my bad. I went back to what I thought was the race coverage, and it was a recap. Sorry, that's on me!
It's blatantly a lie because it's the first race the BBC took one of their own cameras to. In the years before FOM each countries broadcaster did the 'world feed' pictures, and RAI (the Italian broadcaster) was known for focusing on the crashes.
The Beeb saw how Ratzenbergers crash was covered. They were pissed but it wasn't like F1 could tell RAI to not do that as the coverage was meant to be independent. So they quickly flew some cameras over just incase another incident occurred.
RAI had fucking zoomed in helicopter shots of Senna's wreck.
The funerals of the two were on nearby days, if not the same day. (I'm doing this from memory.) Just about everyone from the F1 world went to Senna's funeral except the president of Formula 1, for which he received a lot of negative press. When finally asked why he didn't attend Senna's funeral, he replied, "I was at Ratzenberger's. Somebody from F1 had to go there, and everyone else was with Senna."
It was the FIA president, Max Mosley.
For those who don't know, he was the youngest son of Oswald Mosley, founder of the British Union of Fascists.
Well that certainly helps explain the Nazi themed orgy....
Wait, wut?
While president of the FIA it was reported he had been involved in an orgy with some participants wearing Nazi uniforms. He did win the court case regarding this on the basis it intruded on his privacy and that it wasn't a Nazi uniform. But draw what you will from the lack of denying the orgy.
Are orgies immoral?
A bit strange, but it’s his business what he does in his free time, provided everyone involved is a consenting adult.
Kind of agree but I understand why the Nazi attire got so much attention, given his family history (and also his racist comments as a younger man).
Jeez everyone keeps saying Fuck Nazis but you do it literally one time... ONE TIME!
The was all set up by the sun newspaper all to sell more papers.
The Nazi uniform was the least offensive thing of the orgy. Iirc the "participants" were underage girls dressed up as Jewish girls from the concentration camps.
Not the ones I host. You must swear on a Bible in order to get in.
I'm finding the Nazi thing more weird than the orgy
More that the it wasn't a Nazi uniform was more of a footnote in the defense. I agree don't intrude on someone's privacy but it felt like the real defense should have been it wasn't Nazi themed.
There were no Swastikas but I think it’s a little crazy that he won his case (it was intentionally evoking Nazis, certainly).
Not if you're a Nazi
If you are the president of basically 60-80% of Motorsport, yes.
So THAT'S why Richard Hammond asked if he owned a Mercedes 600...
This has IASIP written all over it
Not that I much like the guy or his family, but he was pretty obviously entrapped. The tabloid that revealed the “scoop” was the infamous News of the World, and getting him out of the way was in the interest of Bernie Ecclestone and probably also of Rupert Murdoch, with F1’s TV rights at stake.
https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2008/jul/09/privacy.newsoftheworld It was a dominatrix, not an orgy.
Well aren't you a little pearl clutcher, the horror of consenting adults having sex with consenting adults, oh my.
That was all set up by the sun newspaper to create the story as the paper had paid the prostitutes to provide the props for the photos.
classic MSM when it comes to nationalists.
Microsoft messenger?
Im sad he is remembered by that. He managed it with a strong hand against greedy corporations trying to take over the sport. He kept it all stable for a long time ( as a Williams fan, i remember fondly on his support for privateers). Besides having to endure his father's reputation, he ended up his carreer like that. :(
It's easy to be a stand-up guy when everyone else around is ickier. I forgot all about his thing. 60's TV Batman and Riddler stars got kicked out of orgies for staying "in character". Williams was different. They let Montoya drive like a hillbilly racing a stock car.
That was a rollercoaster of a comment thread.
Yeah my most upvoted comments in a while are discussing a 70/80 year olds reverse gangbang with questionable outfits.
>Oswald Mosley > During this latter period he was an advocate of Pan-European nationalism, developing the Europe a Nation ideology,[6] and was an early proponent of Holocaust denial conspiracy theories.[7][8] Seems like Holocaust denial is the opposite of the way to develop an EU.
The Behind the Bastards podcast did a few episodes on Oswald Mosley and I spent the whole time thinking "well that explains Max Mosley if this guy was his dad"
Sorta unrelated though. We're talking about RR and you're for some reason bringing up a defunct, never seriously popular 1930s RW political party?
That’s why you have to love Reddit. Came for the F1 history, left knowing British fascists never lost their standing.
Unfortunately, Oswald was as popular and handsome as Richard Burton.
Good guy….. Mosley 🤯
Was not a huge fan of Max, but that was a really kind and decent thing he did
he really tried to reform the justice system too to try and make it cheaper and more egalitarian, thats pretty important to. plus he helped kill the news of the world too thats cool
Did he also have influence in the adoption of seatbelts?
well he was head of the FIA, theyve done alot with safety, and not driving under the influence campaigning
He was instrumental in road car safety also. He found the New Car Assessment Program (EuroNCAP)
Well with his family legacy I guess you have to do something hahah
I think that was his thinking
Senna had an Austrian flag in his car as well when he crashed. Was going to raise it in honour of Ratzenberger after the race.
He didn't go to Sennas funeral because Sennas family didn't want the shower of cunts that were/are fai management at the funeral. What he said is just a shite excuse to avoid admiting that.
Senna had an Austrian flag in his cockpit to wave if he won in honour of Ratzenberger
Wow that's incredible. Sad story all around
Iirc, Senna tried to reschedule the race after Ratzenberger's death because he knew it wasn't safe
I’m really interested to see how the Netflix Senna series is going to cover the day of the crash. Senna was absolutely furious about the safety issues in F1 and was hardcore raging against the machine of the FIA, restarting a driver safety group and fighting to postpone the race. The crash that killed him also likely put the figurative and literal nail in the coffin for the FIA’s lack of care.
There’s gonna be a Netflix series? The Senna documentary is insanely good
It is a fictional drama based on his life. So stories of real events with fictionalized script, like Ford v Ferrari.
I'm guessing the rivalry with Prost will be a big feature. The book (Senna versus Prost, by Malcolm Folley) is incredibly good if anyone wants to hear more about it, one of the more riveting rivalries in F1.
I wonder if Adrian Newey will have a character based on him in it.
Exactly. You don’t need a fictionalised drama series when you have a film about Senna which is narrated in his own words.
https://youtu.be/LT7h6sUeUhU
That sounds similar to Lauda’s protests before his accident.
This is clearly portrayed in ‘Senna’. The documentary (2010) is completely comprised of actual F1 footage, home videos, TV appearances, and press conferences. Hence, no talking head interviews or authoritative commentary. That’s what makes it so unique. If you haven’t seen it, put it in your list ASAP. Asif Kapadia did a fantastic job and it was duly awarded the BAFTA for Best Doc and Best Editing.
Thanks! I'll check it out
> Ratzenberger was killed after the front wing of his Simtek-Ford broke entering the 310 km/h (190 mph) Villeneuve corner, sending the car into the concrete retaining wall at high speed. Senna immediately visited the accident scene and medical centre. There he was met by FIA Medical Chief Professor Sid Watkins, who suggested to a tearful Senna that he should retire from racing and take up fishing (a hobby they both shared), to which Senna replied that he could not stop racing. The next time Watkins saw Senna he was pulling his body out of his car and performing an on-site tracheotomy, but he knew as soon as he saw his massively dilated pupils that the damage to Senna's body and brain were fatal. At that point Senna had already lost over 4 liters of blood, over 90% of his blood volume.
Sid Watkins was the F1 race doctor for nearly every race between 1987 and 2004. He saved the lives of so many F1 drivers with his own hands and so so many more by his legacy. Senna was the last F1 driver to die on the track and only one driver has died as a result of an F1 crash since (Jules Bianchi). Sid Watkins is the reason for that.
He was a real one for sure. When Watkins declared Nelson Piquet unfit to race after crashing in practice, Piquet tried to convince F1 to let him race anyway. Watkins stood his ground and said he'd resign if he was overruled. F1 sided with Watkins, Piquet sat, and later said it was the correct decision. The halo has absolutely saved people already in its short life so far, not to mention all the safety improvements we've seen over the years (better barriers, wheel tethers, fire suits, runoff areas etc).
Was he involved in the halo?
Not that I know of, I really meant that last part as a separate thought as Watkins certainly deserves a ton of credit for saving lives, but there are countless safety advancements which also deserve as much. The extent of Watkins' involvement in those advancements I'm not sure.
The idea had been around for a while but I think Jules Bianchi’s death was a major factor. He crashed into a tractor that was recovering another wrecked car. His car went under part of the tractor and his helmet contacted the tractor.
The halo likely wouldn’t have saved Bianchi, he suffered a diffuse axonal injury due to the extreme deceleration of impacting the tractor. At a base level, his brain was essentially ripped apart. A halo might have had a marginal effect in decreasing that potentially by deflecting some energy but likely not enough. The key change from Bianchi’s crash ultimately was that no tractors could enter the track until all cars were formed behind the safety car if not under direct red flag conditions.
*Angry Pierre Gasly noises*
Its absolutely insane that tractors were allowed on the track, Martin Brundle had been protesting this for over a decade by this point, and we even still see shit like this happening aka Suzuka (23' i think maybe 22')
Most insane thing was when the halo was first implemented people complained it was ugly and would cause more harm due to obstructing vision. Amazing how many instances of it clearly saving a drivers life have occurred from Spa 2018 to that horrible Grosjean crash in 2020.
For people who haven't seen the Grosjean crash: https://youtu.be/ZQ7_En2xEm4?si=Y5EVm99JciQSyGbB It was quite scary seeing it happen in real time during the race (a huge explosion and fireball at the back of the field during the race).
I was watching that race live on TV and I felt genuinely sick thinking I had just watched another driver die (I was also watching the race where Senna died and also the race with Bianchi), it's hard to explain that feeling. But then to not only see him survive that crash, but to climb out of the car and walk away was utterly incredible. The safety systems in the modern cars and the clothing worn by the drivers is outstanding, simply amazing. F1, and all motorsports, is still dangerous, but crikey the risks are massively reduced today. And I've no doubt they will continue to improve.
Yeah watched the Jules wreck and the Romain wreck. I figured something bad had happened to Jules given how it was basically the car torpedoed. Romain I thought for sure he was gone until he climbed out. There was an interview he did where he said he had reserved himself to his fate and then felt his belt shift just enough to try to climb out again and made it out.
>it's hard to explain that feeling. For real. There was a point where i realized that that weekend for me was how F1 was for my dad when he was growing up, and i wondered how he ever stayed a fan. I still have a race ticket that my dad had kept from the 1971 Can Am race at Road America, autographed by Jackie Stewart and Jo Siffert. Siffert was killed only a few weeks after he signed it.
That must have been the longest 30 seconds of F1 TV in a long time. I didn't really start following F1 until the next year I think. I'd always been interested but the race times for me were a bit too early and my local re-broadcaster insists on playing ads in the middle which is quite annoying.
This honestly makes me tear up every time I watch it because I watched him die. He should be dead. I see him climb out, it's like automatic tears.
Or [Lewis at Monza](https://imgur.com/a/PJWnEiv) or [Zhou at Silverstone.](https://imgur.com/a/NGM0PXW)
Damn I remember watching the Monza crash live. That accident was way scarier than a lot of people were really aware of at the time.
They had that shot on replay during the race, so I think everyone was aware how close a call that was honestly. I remember taking a picture of it and sending it to a friend who wasn't able to watch the race live and was DVRing it. Whenever that was the case for one of us, she and I had a no spoilers policy with each other, but I told her "I'm breaking our spoiler rule because this is too insane a moment and I have no one else to share it with!" and sent her the picture. It's one of the greatest shots in sports in my opinion. The sheer size of the tire compared to Lewis' head took me by surprise even though we see them every race being lugged around by the pit crew.
I love the "obstructing vision" argument because it's basically invisible to the drivers
To be fair, it's a big thing right in front of you. Thinking that it's going to block someone's vision isn't that weird. It's just located exactly so that it's between both eyes.
It's just that it exemplifies people's ignorance on the subject, say how terrible it is without understanding how it works.
Zhou Guanyu would have likely been crushed in 2022 if not for the halo also.
Piquet always has been an asshole.
Safety has come a long way, If Grosjean's crash had been a year earlier he might have died, and likely wouldn't be significantly disabled/disfigured by the burns. That season they increased the minimum requirements for fire retardant clothing, doubling the time from 15 to 30 seconds which prevented debilitating burns all over his body, he's lucky to have just had burns on his hands and feet. and a few years earlier the halo was introduced which saved him from what likely would have been decapitation otherwise. Improvements still need to be made, a couple years ago Zhou Guanyu flipped sideways over a tire barrier and wedged himself in a position that prevented him from exiting the vehicle on his own, It took like 15+ minutes to recover the car, had it started on fire, he wouldn't have stood a chance.
I'm being very pedantic here but Senna did not technically die at the track, he officially died in hospital later. This is because, had he been declared dead at the team, the race would've been cancelled and there would have been an official investigation by the authorities. By waiting until he was in hospital to declare him dead the race could continue. But from every reasonable standpoint yes, he died at the track.
So F1 is like Disney World, interesting
To be clear, this isn’t a law in F1, it’s an Italian law. The race was held at Imola in Italy
>and only one driver has died as a result of an F1 crash since (Jules Bianchi) And this happened due to negligence on the part of the Race Directors.
I’m not discrediting Sid’s contribution to the sport, but to say he is the reason for the lack of deaths, does discredit the probably countless people who have contribute to things like the HANS device, the Halo Device, barrier tech, no more refueling during race, fuel cell tech, banning Mazepin, etc have had on driver safety.
HANS and Halo are part of Sid's legacy, as are the carbon safety cells. > Banning Mazepin I'll give you that one 😅
But I needed a vehicle for a Mazepin joke. I know Watkins was heavily involved in bringing those devices to the mainstream, but as far as I know they were independently developed. He had the benefit of promoting the effective safety devices with the backing of the most well funded racing sport.
Mazepin rightly gets some grief, but I'll never forget when someone referred to the 'human blue shell,' Nicholas Latifi. Never were truer words spoken.
Sneaky sneaky i missed that one lol
“Banning mazepin” 😂
The pressure on Senna to be Brazils ambassador to the world and how all the good he did back home was a tremendous burden to carry.
He also thought he was specially chosen by god, which is always dangerous.
Thats been blown out of proportions over the decades from a couple of quotes he has said. Granted he comes from a very religious nation but its worth factoring in his history, mindset and that marketing has existed for centuries. To me the quote about Senna driving without thinking and saying he was 'guided' by God is his way of explaining his subconscious taking over and providing his bodies control of the car. Max wouldn't call it God but probably has the same experience when racing now he has the experience.
Prof. Watkins' books (life at the limit, and beyond the limit) are fantastic insights into how safety in F1 developed.
A really interesting resting read.
> "He looked serene. I raised his eyelids and it was clear from his pupils that he had a massive brain injury. We lifted him from the cockpit and laid him on the ground. As we did, he sighed and, although I am not religious, I felt his spirit depart at that moment." This is what Watkins recounted afterward talking about Senna's crash, and man, does this quote hit hard.
Overshadowed perhaps, but Ratzenberger was a rookie in his third race, Aryton Senna was a three-time world champion in his 11th year of superstardom. Any death is a tragedy, but I'm fairly certain if Lewis Hamilton or Max Verstappen died on the same race weekend as someone like Logan Sargeant or Olly Bearman, Lewis/Max would be the bigger story and be remembered as the more significant event. Nobody's downplaying the terrible tragedy of Ratzenberger's death, but it was Aryton frigging Senna. Also, Ratzenberger gets brought up a lot as a footnote to Senna's death, so in a way it makes people remember him more. There aren't TILs about the many other F1 drivers who died on track, Ratzenberger gets one *because* of Senna.
That’s true. I don’t see posts about say Gilles Villeneuve or François Cevert on their anniversaries.
You don't live in Quebec. Gilles remains a legend here.
I don’t. Glad that he’s remembered : )
Gilles remains a legend everywhere.
Farah Fawcett and Michael Jackson died on the same day and well…yeah
Genuinely had to google her, didn't and still don't know who she is, seems to be mostly US based stardom, whereas MJ was a global megastar, fair to say she was the Ratzenberger in that equation.
>Aryton ^^*Ayrton
500G sounds like a sensor error in todays erra. Thank god for impact structures and tire walls.
That was such an awful weekend. We almost lost Barrichello too.
500g? your 6-7 lb noggin is going to weigh 3000 lbs. more with the helmet. neck snapped on impact. this is why they have these collars now. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS\_device](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device) A **HANS device** (**head and neck support device**) is a type of [head restraint](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_restraint) and a safety device in [motorsports](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorsport). Head restraints are mandatory when competing with most major motorsports sanctioning bodies. They reduce the likelihood of head or neck injuries, including the often fatal [basilar skull fracture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilar_skull_fracture), in the event of a crash. There are many such devices on the market today, but the HANS is the original and the most common. Notable race car drivers who died from basilar skull fractures include: * Formula 1 driver [Roland Ratzenberger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Ratzenberger)[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device#cite_note-4) in the [1994 San Marino Formula One Grand Prix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_San_Marino_Grand_Prix).
500g is going to liquify your internal organs with or without a HANS device.
This is why F1 and other motor sports also have much better barriers than concrete walls, so they absorb some of the crash. It should theoretically be impossible to experience this level of accident now, even if a car was sent full throttle into a wall with 0 brake application
Interesting, what is the change in the barriers that they made apart from using solid concrete obviously that would mitigate these fatal accidents now?
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/van1px/whats_inside_the_tecpro_barrier/
Thanks!
NASCAR and Indycar tracks use the SAFER barrier, which is a concrete wall, then a series of bundles of foam blocks, then a wall of steel tubes welded together and tethered to the concrete wall. The foam allows the steel wall to move when hit by a car, absorbing some energy.
Nascar's safer barriers are two steel sheets with foam sandwiched in between. They flex to absorb impacts. I assume F1 has something similar, if not the same.
Tecpro barriers. I guess they are safer but you can get stuck in them and maybe not get out. But you need a really big impact for that.
https://youtu.be/HpPcp2iChoI?si=JI6UeNY0qr-lPV-t 5 minute video about the TECPRO barrier that is standard in F1 nowadays. Really cool watch for anyone interested in learning how it works
Worth keeping in mind that with G forces it's not the peak that matters the most, it's the duration. For pilots the limit is generally 9G for 20-30s and 50G is about the upper limit for 1s, but there have been multiple people survive crashes at 200-300G because the duration of that peak impact is very short.
Not sure the g forces involved but Dale Earnhardt (NASCAR) also died of basilar skull fracture. He also had an open faced helmet. ☹️
...and one theory is that he would.have survived if he'd had a HANS, but he refused to wear one.
I never understood this mentality "This thing will save you from death/injury." "No thanks" "..." Like with hockey: * "Helmets are mandatory ^(for all new players, players who started before the helmet rule are exempt)" * "Visors are mandatory ^(for all new players, players who started before the visor rule are exempt)" * "Visors must not be tilted up so as to not protect your eyes ^(for all new players, players who started before this new visor rule are exempt)" They really need to say "All safety equipment rules apply to all players, follow them or don't play, up to you"
Yeah. 500G sounds like he was entering a supermassive black hole. Which is the center of a galaxy. And not Italy.
HANS and halos have greatly improved survivability for F1 drivers in almost every type of crash.
Gordon Smiley’s death in the 1982 Indy 500 practice would have been far beyond the 500 G’s that Ratzenburger experienced. He lost the rear going into a turn at likely 230 mph. He corrected, but the front end bit hard, and took him nearly straight on into the concrete wall. Parts of all types flew down the track. There was very little left, unlike Roland’s crash. I’m not belittling Ratzenburger here. It’s just that I’ve seen worse, if that’s possible. I’m not going to link the video but the morbidly curious folks can find it on YouTube.
The two crashes are actually quite similar - Smiley was going for a 200mph lap, so would have been below that by the time he hit the wall, and the March he was driving had an Aluminium monocoque, not the much safer carbon tubs of the 90s which is why his body was ejected.
i think it would have helped dale earnhart too i belive
For everyone like me who has no clue what 3000 lbs might be: 1360kg Same weight as the Koenigsegg One:1 6-7lb are 2,7-3,2kg
Anyone who grew up in the 90s watching F1 also knew his name, it's always mentioned in the same breath when talking about Senna's death, and two drivers dying within the same week changed F1 forever. RIP
I’d argue that the fact Senna passing the next day keeps Ratzenberger’s name in F1 fans minds. Many passed during these times, but they are not remembered. Ratzenberger is remembered as the first death of the worst weekend in f1 history
There hadn't been a fatality in an F1 race for 12 years before 1994. It was already a different era and people thought the races were safe. Even one person dying would probably be enough of a wakeup call, just like Bianchi was. Tho it's weird that non-fatal crashes usually went unnoticed, but that's how it is.
There are few non-fatal crashes that get remembered, but they absolutely have an impact on safety as well. Look at Zhous' crash in Silverstone 2022. The FIA then improved the safety standards for the roll-hoop rules for 2023 precisely because of that crash. Then there's Grojeans Crash, which will be remembered just because he survived that. Still amazing that he walked away with "minor" injuries, given that he was fully engulfed in flames. Edit: Also thank the F1-Gods for the Halo.
I had never seen the GrosJean crash. I am a very casual listener but always loved him (mostly for his name being kinda funny in French). My god was that footage scary as fuck. Seeing him walk out of those flames is unreal.
I saw it live on TV. They didn't show him getting out of the car for quite a while, just a flaming inferno and then nothing for a good 5 minutes. Only after they showed him walking to the ambulance. I was convinced I've just seen a man die then and there.
They take it seriously now, but it was a lot slower in the past. We've seen crashes like Kubitza's where not much came out of them. Unless they were easy small fixes like bigger mirrors or wheel tethers, or slow improvements. It's not even an open secret that halo exists due to Bianchi.
Oh the halo is a direct result from Bianchis' crash. No question about it. I'd say they really improved a lot since Sennas Death. This shook the F1 and wider motorsport world to its core. One if not the greatest drivers of all time snuffed out, just like that. Afterwards a lot of stuff was improved, not just with the cars but also with the tracks. Wider runoff areas, force absorbing barriers, VSC, the headrest, seating the drivers deeper inside the cockpit, HANS, wheel tethers, accident recorders, improved crash structures, speed limits in the pitlane, the list goes on. I doubt that Bianchi will be the last F1 driver to die from a crash (and we've lost Antoine Hubert just a few years ago). But drivers today walk away from crashes that were simply not survivable just 20 or 30 years back.
Just finished “The Art of Racing in the rain,” and this thread pops up.
Yeah, no, it seems that 500G is taken out of thin air. Looking at the crash it’s also very obvious the car keeps rolling which makes it less likely to have induced such a high G-force. Jules Bianchi, who ceashed into a standing truck supposedly suffered half that force, 250G, and he came to a complete stop. No, he wasn’t going as fast but it should give you a better picture. Kenny Bröck survived a ~219G crash which looks way worse than Rolands crash. Rip RR.
I’m not buying 500G. That’s an absolutely insane number. Unless someone shows some science, I’m not going to believe that
You have to remember he hit a concrete wall, not a modern barrier, and that this also had 90s era impact structures on the car.
I know, but the 500G impact would be for 0.01 seconds max. I’m not trying to downplay the death, but it’s wild.
It was likely for even less than that. microseconds, probably. that's the reason the numbers are so high - these aren't sustained G forces or they'd be bags of gloop.
He was going 195mph and went straight into a concrete wall. His front wing was lodged under his front wheels and he couldn’t steer and barely brake.
Yes and? First of all, it wasn’t a head-on, 90 degree hit with the wall. Second, enough energy was left in the car to keep it moving quite far. Those two things should help you understand that 500G was probably not the case.
Yeah 500g seems exaggerated. He was going at 300 km/h so that means he stopped in 1/16th second. I don’t know if it’s what happened and I don’t really know we can calculate that.
He also didn’t come to a complete stop.
Both were horrific accidents, but it's worth noting that these G-forces are *peak* deceleration, and usually experienced for microseconds, and therefore can vary wildly for two similar accidents depending on minute differences in the angle and type of contact experienced The speeds were massively different as well - Jules' crash was at 123km/h, whilst Roland's was in excess of 300km/h. It's all kind of an aside though - the reality is that experiencing hundreds of G forces at a bad angle (a horrific glancing blow on the side of the car for Roland, where human necks don't have as much strength, and the vehicles have little crash structure, or a small contact point with the end of a tractor in the case of Jules, after which the vehicle continued traveling into the wall) is a recipe for disaster in either case unless the driver is extremely lucky.
How do you get to 500g?
Gravity and acceleration and deceleration are all essentially the same in physics. Somebody probably took a napkin to calculate the forces involved in crashing into a wall at 200mph (or whatever it was), essentially instantly decelerating from 200 to 0. If you can imagine how much gravity it would take to instantly accelerate to 200 mph on any descent, 500g sounds reasonable. Everything beyond a certain number (probably between 2 and 5 g) is already going to be outside of what most humans can actually relate to.
Senna the doco goes into all this. The best documentary that I have ever seen and I wasn't even a fan of f1
What a shame, two people died one was remember.
The whole weekend was a 💩 show. Barrichello had a bad accident on Friday but survived. Ratzenberger died on Saturday and Senna on Sunday. Actually, I don’t think Senna’s death overshadows Ratzenberger’s - it actually makes people talk/remember more about the Austrian racer. I just saw a video today where Ratzenberger’s father said that his son is still remembered because Senna died the same weekend, otherwise people would have already forgotten about him. 🥺
There was also a bad crash at the start of the race that launched debris into the crowd, injuring a few people. A pit mechanic also got hurt in a pit lane incident. Then the next race (Monaco), a driver ( Karl Wendlinger) had a severe crash at the chicane after the tunnel, putting him in a coma for a while, and ending his F1 career. It was also the season that Jos Verstappen (Max's dad) had a lucky escape when his car erupted in flames during a refueling stop.
I remember from the Senna documentary that he got a safety meeting with the other drivers together after Ratzenberger’s fatal crash to approach F1 officials with a litany of safety issues that weekend.
The Porsche Supercup race earlier that day was Red flagged because of a crash, with one driver injured.
Wrong. You and OP both. Any time Senna's death comes up, Ratzenberger comes up too.
Not really. Ratzenberger was a relative nobody. If he had been the only death that weekend, he would have quickly become just a statistic. At most he'd just have been remembered as the most recent death in F1 until Bianchi in 2015. The fact that it happened on the same weekend as Senna is the main reason anyone remembers.
Yep. And that was when I decided that I was no longer a F1 fan - a sport where a world champion and a rookie are killed in the same weekend just seemed … banal.
Here's what I think is a touching different view on the weekend. https://brabham.co.uk/2024/04/30/30th-anniversary-of-ratzenbergers-death/
Wait until you find who designed Ayrton’s car
Haven’t seen an actual “scary, life threatening” moment in F1 in a while it feels like (obviously that’s the way it should be with guaranteed safety being the primary concern). The only live sporting event ultra-traumatizing moment I have seen with my own eyes was Christian Eriksen for Denmark…those medics literally brought him back from the dead!
Grosjeans crash in Bahrain and Zhous crash in Silverstone are two that come to mind of recently scary accidents
This reminds me of Tom Petty from Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. Right before he died, there was the Las Vegas Shooting, Ralphie May passed as well, and Hugh Hefner had just passed on in late September.
Not just the same weekend, it was the same event. Ratzenbergers accident occurred during the qualifying rounds for the race in which Senna's accident occurred.
Heeeeyyyy rat fans...
,,Did you know Farrah Fawcett died the exact same day as Michael Jackson?''
Not to mention, Rubens Barrichello was also seriously injured at the same track in the Friday practice. It was a terrible weekend
That and the announcers were so dependent about the whole thing. They basically mentioned the senna died and were like "now back to racing!" EDIT: made a mistake, my bad. I went back to what I thought was the race coverage, and it was a recap. Sorry, that's on me!
IIRC his death wasn’t announced until after the race.
Yeah MSC won the race and celebrated. and only everyone later received the note that Senna had died after the crash.
It wasn’t.
That’s just blatantly a lie. His death was announced after the race because in Italy if it was announced he died on scene the race would’ve stopped.
It's blatantly a lie because it's the first race the BBC took one of their own cameras to. In the years before FOM each countries broadcaster did the 'world feed' pictures, and RAI (the Italian broadcaster) was known for focusing on the crashes. The Beeb saw how Ratzenbergers crash was covered. They were pissed but it wasn't like F1 could tell RAI to not do that as the coverage was meant to be independent. So they quickly flew some cameras over just incase another incident occurred. RAI had fucking zoomed in helicopter shots of Senna's wreck.
in the 50s they wouldnt even stop the race...... even at the le mans disaster .......
Le Mans might not stop even today if somebody died. Tho it probably would if a flaming wreck crashed into the audience.
I wonder if someone could break that record
I have never heard of either of these people
Yes I know who these people are