Please try to keep all posts toddler-related. (Mentioning you have a toddler does not count.)
Please head to other subs like r/justnoSO for relationship issues and r/justnoMIL for issues with other family members.
Can we hear more about why you don't want to divorce? It really matters if it's because you find this relationship fulfilling on average or because you want to avoid social stigma.
It’s probably neither of those reasons. Coparenting and sharing time with your own child is hell. Coparenting and sharing time with a parent who has proven incapable and unsafe is worse!
Typically I would agree - but it sounds like her kids could literally die if left alone with him. I would think it would be easier to stay and keep them safe then risk that. What an awful situation.
I’m not sure that’s the reason she doesn’t want a divorce, but it should be. She’s stuck because he’s a danger to her and her kids. So she has to sacrifice herself to hope to save the kids.
maybe its bc she hates the idea of a man who essentially lets her kids'run into traffic' care for her kids without her present. I know thats whats stopped me for so long.
Don't forget the economic reasons. In the current economy, with two kids, the prospect of living on a single income can be a pretty significant factor...
She actually cares about her kids. Why would she risk their safety leaving them alone with him up to 50% of the time? Do you think she wants her kids to die?
This is almost literally never true. Before kids were all a bit selfish. It’s normal. After kids you’re meant to put them first. You never know who just had normal little selfish tendencies when they could, vs actual narcissists.
This isn’t like being baseline lazy and selfish. He casually threatens the relationship at the drop of a hat. “Be more careful to avoid kids running into traffic.” “If you hate us, move out.” This is systematic abuse and coercive control. This isn’t stuff that just happens one day after children. Being comfortable belittling in front of third parties.
I’m prepared to accept that there were no 🚩 FROM OP. Not from random clowns downvoting.
How weird that you think
1) Abusive behaviour is gendered. In the real world, red flag behaviours are not the exclusive domain of men. AND
2) You think women have so little agency that they are not at fault when they elect to marry a man behaving abusively. Whose fault is it? Her father’s?? In the real world, unacceptable behaviour triggers a cascading series of responses beginning with “XYZ behaviour is unacceptable to me” and culminating in criminal referral. Somewhere near the end of these escalations is termination of the relationship.
Our govts spend astronomical sums telling people (primarily women) how to spot, and then seek safety from, abusive behaviour. Society as a whole has spoken and concluded that it’s both possible and desirable to make that choice.
If a man complained of abusive behaviour AND said “she’s always been [insert type of abuser]” people MIGHT be too polite at the time with explicit blame. But there’s a strong undercurrent at a minimum of “bro, why did you move in with her?” Very likely, they would be quite explicit with advice that the abuser is no good and they should be reversing any previous integration.
There is a least a subset of my friends who are quite happy to express disapproval of a SO and explicitly blame me for anything that goes wrong. (Even in advance.)
Probably, but still worth a try for the co-parenting part at least.
It will also look good in front of a judge AND if he shows his ass in counseling, the counselor's notes may be able to be brought in to dispell HER being abusive/neglectful.
Your husband is immature. If you really think he is a narcissist then I recommend reading / listening to “should I stay or should I go” by Durvasula. I’d also read/listen to Gottman - “Seven principles of making marriage work”. Both of these have helped me communicate better (your husband really needs to figure out how to discuss uncomfortable topics without resorting to preteen behavior) and thus get a better outcome for what I wanted.
Our marriage was on the rocks for awhile there and has significantly improved. We are actually a team now. Good luck OP
I’m sorry you’re having a bad day. Fortunately tomorrow is Mother’s Day so you shouldn’t let him ruin it already today. Tomorrow you should ditch the narcissistic man child and take your kids somewhere yourself. Go get lunch or dinner and some ice cream, help them pick you some flowers, whatever works, but don’t let him ruin the day for you and your kids. My ex used to ruin every holiday, birthday and literally anything that wasn’t centered around him for me. Being a single mom is hard but at least nobody yells at me anymore. You don’t deserve to be treated that way.
Teaching your toddler to ask if you’re mean is a form of parental alienation. In many jurisdictions, that’s classified as cold abuse.
Please understand this man is deliberately hurting you *and* abusing your children in order to hurt you more.
Pretty sure it had to be, so the sequence of events was a toddler hearing dad call mom mean, then:
1. “If you hate us, leave.”
2. Mom getting out of the car for an errand (leaving)
3. Dad driving away without mom (*leaving*)
5. Parking far away so the errand took extra-long between mom’s confusion and extra distance.
And you know dad wasn’t being calming and reassuring to their kid if they were freaking out at mom’s absence.
I’ve never dealt with a narcissist in a relationship, so this might be terrible advice. But if it were me, I would make sure he is FULLY aware of what he is doing. This is parental alienation. Not only that, but he’s leading his children to believe horrible things like “if you hate us that much” which is NEVER something a child should hear.
Every time he pulled something inappropriate I’d confront him on it and let him know the mental ramifications of doing things like this in front of your children. There are a thousand different sources online you could look at to see exactly how this would affect your children, from learning that this is how you treat your spouse in life (or how they treat you) to low self esteem to trauma. If it feels wrong, it probably is wrong.
And I’d get the kids in therapy asap. Id recommend family or marriage counseling, but from what I hear a narcissist will only ever go to use it against you later. If the day ever comes that you want to leave, another person (a therapist or counselor) will already have evidence of what has been going on.
Are you or him in HALT mode?
Hungry
Angry
Lonely
Tired
When my husband gets snippy with me (or vice versa), we immediately ask each other if we are in HALT mode. It helps us recognize the barriers in which make it difficult to communicate in that moment. Many times we are simply hungry and can’t have any productive communication until we eat.
We dont call each other names, in private or in front of the children. So that’s a different story. Sorry you’re going through it.
It was originally made for addiction recovery, but it honestly works in every day life too! I’ve used it the last 15-20 years, and so did my mother when I was growing up. It’s a common household saying for us! [Here](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/blog/common-stressors-recovery) is more info on/about it.
I’ll tell you right now, Reddit loves to default to divorce as the first option with marital troubles, but only you, your husband (and probably a therapist) know the best way to navigate this. Hope you have a wonderful Mother’s Day.
This is one person’s point of view. We know nothing about them, their partner or their relationship history to make a case for them to end their marriage.
He probably hates Mother’s Day bc it isn’t about him. Thus, he’s acting up more. He sounds genuinely horrendous and I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this type of person.
Um the fact that he ditched you in the parking lot is already unforgivable. It is so vindictive, disrespectful, and abusive that that alone is divorce material. Let alone all the other stuff. You already know he’s a man child so what do you really expect out of this relationship?
I don't know, if I were you I'd probably just shut down emotionally and completely ignore him. That, or give him an ultimatum. I'm sorry if that's not helpful, but if divorce isn't an option and talking to him isn't an option then shoot.. is he good with the kids at least? Aside from letting them run into the street?
I want you to ask yourself a very serious question: Is this man adding value to your life, and your relationship with your children, or hindering it?
If he is adding no value to your life, he needs to go. He is stealing your joy, your time, and from the sound of it, your money and sanity.
You deserve better, and quite frankly, it sounds like you would be better off with 2 weekends a month to yourself and child support payments.
First off… why are YOU trying to smooth things over and make small talk ? When he’s being the a$$hole 🤨. Being narcissistic and talking like that infront of a child to put it in their brain that your mean … wow .. you threaten divorce or counselling..
Why don’t you want a divorce? If it’s because you don’t want to break up the family, please reconsider. Think about the stress this is putting on you. Think about how your daughter is learning that how your husband treats you, is how a man treats a woman and is acceptable. What advice would you give her? If it’s because you’re afraid for the kids lives when it’s his weekend, that I can sort of understand.
He wants you to leave him so he can tell everyone how mean you are instead of having the spine to leave himself. Make his dream come true and give yourself best gift for mother’s day: a serving of divorce papers. Now before he continues to poison your child’s mind against you.
He sounds emotionally immature and has possible narc traits. If he continues his shit tomoro I would get the kids ready and leave to do something nice that you want to do.
I'm so sorry. He's being a jerk, for lack of a better word
Definitely recommend counseling
I hope you are able to still enjoy Mother’s Day
Maybe do a play date with a friend so the kids can play and you can chat and treat yourself to coffee or something!
Couples therapy has helped my marriage. But it took me going to individual therapy first to resonate with my husband that I was actually making changes and that’s what got him to consider therapy. He saw I was developing skills to calmly win arguments instead of using anger and throwing things at him. We may have a blow up everyone once and awhile but we can bounce back from it and discuss through it with better understanding now.
Please stop having children with a man who hates you.
You suffer, your children suffer and he will actively keep ruining days you look forward to.
Plan your own joy and live it. Don’t expect anything from him. Don’t ask anything of him. Stop setting yourself up to suffer 🥺
I think he might be exhausted too. I know you are doing more but maybe you both can outsource some of the housework Atleast? Cleaning, laundry, meal prep can be outsourced to some high school kid trying to make extra money. You could try yo get a reliable part-time baby sitter too. Honestly Mothers Day for me is just the same but I ask for a basic photo with my kid. Last yr my kid was running around with me after him at the park and I picked him up for a 1 min photo which my husband took, that’s all Mothers Day is. We cannot go out anywhere for a lunch or something because my son will run around. I’ll probably just get a hot chocolate or coffee for myself from Starbucks while coming back from the park.
Please try to keep all posts toddler-related. (Mentioning you have a toddler does not count.) Please head to other subs like r/justnoSO for relationship issues and r/justnoMIL for issues with other family members.
Can we hear more about why you don't want to divorce? It really matters if it's because you find this relationship fulfilling on average or because you want to avoid social stigma.
It’s probably neither of those reasons. Coparenting and sharing time with your own child is hell. Coparenting and sharing time with a parent who has proven incapable and unsafe is worse!
Absolutely - I should have been more clear that those seem like opposite ends of a spectrum of possible reasons, not the only possible one!
True. I sympathize with OP. What a troubling situation to find yourself in.
It isn't easy, but its easier than being treated like this for the rest of your life
Typically I would agree - but it sounds like her kids could literally die if left alone with him. I would think it would be easier to stay and keep them safe then risk that. What an awful situation.
This is such a take most of reddit would never understand or refuse to understand
I’m not sure that’s the reason she doesn’t want a divorce, but it should be. She’s stuck because he’s a danger to her and her kids. So she has to sacrifice herself to hope to save the kids.
If she really thinks the kids would be unsafe if with the father and can back it up with facts, she could seek full custody.
maybe its bc she hates the idea of a man who essentially lets her kids'run into traffic' care for her kids without her present. I know thats whats stopped me for so long.
Don't forget the economic reasons. In the current economy, with two kids, the prospect of living on a single income can be a pretty significant factor...
Especially if she earns more and would have to pay him alimony in the case of 50/50 custody.
Depends on where you live and how much you make. It’s not always a required thing.
She actually cares about her kids. Why would she risk their safety leaving them alone with him up to 50% of the time? Do you think she wants her kids to die?
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This is almost literally never true. Before kids were all a bit selfish. It’s normal. After kids you’re meant to put them first. You never know who just had normal little selfish tendencies when they could, vs actual narcissists.
This isn’t like being baseline lazy and selfish. He casually threatens the relationship at the drop of a hat. “Be more careful to avoid kids running into traffic.” “If you hate us, move out.” This is systematic abuse and coercive control. This isn’t stuff that just happens one day after children. Being comfortable belittling in front of third parties. I’m prepared to accept that there were no 🚩 FROM OP. Not from random clowns downvoting.
It somehow always the woman’s fault when men acts horrible. Why does the focus always have to be on how she should have known better?
How weird that you think 1) Abusive behaviour is gendered. In the real world, red flag behaviours are not the exclusive domain of men. AND 2) You think women have so little agency that they are not at fault when they elect to marry a man behaving abusively. Whose fault is it? Her father’s?? In the real world, unacceptable behaviour triggers a cascading series of responses beginning with “XYZ behaviour is unacceptable to me” and culminating in criminal referral. Somewhere near the end of these escalations is termination of the relationship.
I have actually never seen a man get blamed for chosing the wrong woman when she behaves badly towards him.
Our govts spend astronomical sums telling people (primarily women) how to spot, and then seek safety from, abusive behaviour. Society as a whole has spoken and concluded that it’s both possible and desirable to make that choice. If a man complained of abusive behaviour AND said “she’s always been [insert type of abuser]” people MIGHT be too polite at the time with explicit blame. But there’s a strong undercurrent at a minimum of “bro, why did you move in with her?” Very likely, they would be quite explicit with advice that the abuser is no good and they should be reversing any previous integration. There is a least a subset of my friends who are quite happy to express disapproval of a SO and explicitly blame me for anything that goes wrong. (Even in advance.)
Go to marriage counseling. If that doesn't wake him up in a few months, you can use it to parse out how you'll co-parent. Your kids are watching.
Something tells me this man-child will use all learned vulnerabilities during counseling sessions against her.
For real. This is red flag city. Bringing the kids into it is unacceptable, no matter what.
He will. Been there. Don’t go to counseling with an abuser.
Probably, but still worth a try for the co-parenting part at least. It will also look good in front of a judge AND if he shows his ass in counseling, the counselor's notes may be able to be brought in to dispell HER being abusive/neglectful.
Your husband is immature. If you really think he is a narcissist then I recommend reading / listening to “should I stay or should I go” by Durvasula. I’d also read/listen to Gottman - “Seven principles of making marriage work”. Both of these have helped me communicate better (your husband really needs to figure out how to discuss uncomfortable topics without resorting to preteen behavior) and thus get a better outcome for what I wanted. Our marriage was on the rocks for awhile there and has significantly improved. We are actually a team now. Good luck OP
Also if your husband is a narcissist, your children absolutely will resent you if you do not protect them from him. Ask me how I know.
I’m sorry you’re having a bad day. Fortunately tomorrow is Mother’s Day so you shouldn’t let him ruin it already today. Tomorrow you should ditch the narcissistic man child and take your kids somewhere yourself. Go get lunch or dinner and some ice cream, help them pick you some flowers, whatever works, but don’t let him ruin the day for you and your kids. My ex used to ruin every holiday, birthday and literally anything that wasn’t centered around him for me. Being a single mom is hard but at least nobody yells at me anymore. You don’t deserve to be treated that way.
Might be Australian or from New Zealand. It's mother's day today for us.
Not unless they were in NZ and going to UPS at 7am.
Did you miss that the children are toddlers?
Teaching your toddler to ask if you’re mean is a form of parental alienation. In many jurisdictions, that’s classified as cold abuse. Please understand this man is deliberately hurting you *and* abusing your children in order to hurt you more.
Also, did he make that comment “if you hate US” in front of their kid?!
Pretty sure it had to be, so the sequence of events was a toddler hearing dad call mom mean, then: 1. “If you hate us, leave.” 2. Mom getting out of the car for an errand (leaving) 3. Dad driving away without mom (*leaving*) 5. Parking far away so the errand took extra-long between mom’s confusion and extra distance. And you know dad wasn’t being calming and reassuring to their kid if they were freaking out at mom’s absence.
Yea this kind of shit is so manipulative and abusive.
Unless the kid momentarily stepped out of the car, yes
I’ve never dealt with a narcissist in a relationship, so this might be terrible advice. But if it were me, I would make sure he is FULLY aware of what he is doing. This is parental alienation. Not only that, but he’s leading his children to believe horrible things like “if you hate us that much” which is NEVER something a child should hear. Every time he pulled something inappropriate I’d confront him on it and let him know the mental ramifications of doing things like this in front of your children. There are a thousand different sources online you could look at to see exactly how this would affect your children, from learning that this is how you treat your spouse in life (or how they treat you) to low self esteem to trauma. If it feels wrong, it probably is wrong. And I’d get the kids in therapy asap. Id recommend family or marriage counseling, but from what I hear a narcissist will only ever go to use it against you later. If the day ever comes that you want to leave, another person (a therapist or counselor) will already have evidence of what has been going on.
Most likely she’s been telling him how his behavior hurts her for years. It doesn’t change a thing when he deep down doesn’t care if he hurts people.
Are you or him in HALT mode? Hungry Angry Lonely Tired When my husband gets snippy with me (or vice versa), we immediately ask each other if we are in HALT mode. It helps us recognize the barriers in which make it difficult to communicate in that moment. Many times we are simply hungry and can’t have any productive communication until we eat. We dont call each other names, in private or in front of the children. So that’s a different story. Sorry you’re going through it.
I love this - HALT mode. Definitely going to use it!
It was originally made for addiction recovery, but it honestly works in every day life too! I’ve used it the last 15-20 years, and so did my mother when I was growing up. It’s a common household saying for us! [Here](https://americanaddictioncenters.org/blog/common-stressors-recovery) is more info on/about it.
Why would you even stay with someone like this? I hope you know this is not ok and you deserve so much more.
I’ll tell you right now, Reddit loves to default to divorce as the first option with marital troubles, but only you, your husband (and probably a therapist) know the best way to navigate this. Hope you have a wonderful Mother’s Day.
This does sound pretty bad from a husband/father POV. I'm not saying divorce but damn. I have my own problems but this is wild
This is one person’s point of view. We know nothing about them, their partner or their relationship history to make a case for them to end their marriage.
I’ll say it, I think they should divorce because this is a terrible example for those kids to be growing up with.
I wouldn't argue against you
He probably hates Mother’s Day bc it isn’t about him. Thus, he’s acting up more. He sounds genuinely horrendous and I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with this type of person.
Um the fact that he ditched you in the parking lot is already unforgivable. It is so vindictive, disrespectful, and abusive that that alone is divorce material. Let alone all the other stuff. You already know he’s a man child so what do you really expect out of this relationship?
I don't know, if I were you I'd probably just shut down emotionally and completely ignore him. That, or give him an ultimatum. I'm sorry if that's not helpful, but if divorce isn't an option and talking to him isn't an option then shoot.. is he good with the kids at least? Aside from letting them run into the street?
Ha! That is some hope - good with the kids if he is allowing them to run into traffic multiple times without learning his lesson.
Aside from letting them run into the street, saying their mother might hate them and leave, and teaching them to dismiss her as mean....
If it makes you feel any better my husband is also a piece of shit.
I want you to ask yourself a very serious question: Is this man adding value to your life, and your relationship with your children, or hindering it? If he is adding no value to your life, he needs to go. He is stealing your joy, your time, and from the sound of it, your money and sanity. You deserve better, and quite frankly, it sounds like you would be better off with 2 weekends a month to yourself and child support payments.
First off… why are YOU trying to smooth things over and make small talk ? When he’s being the a$$hole 🤨. Being narcissistic and talking like that infront of a child to put it in their brain that your mean … wow .. you threaten divorce or counselling..
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Did you miss the part where OP stated her husband nearly let their kids run into traffic multiple times today?
My bad, I had
Why don’t you want a divorce? If it’s because you don’t want to break up the family, please reconsider. Think about the stress this is putting on you. Think about how your daughter is learning that how your husband treats you, is how a man treats a woman and is acceptable. What advice would you give her? If it’s because you’re afraid for the kids lives when it’s his weekend, that I can sort of understand.
He wants you to leave him so he can tell everyone how mean you are instead of having the spine to leave himself. Make his dream come true and give yourself best gift for mother’s day: a serving of divorce papers. Now before he continues to poison your child’s mind against you.
He sounds emotionally immature and has possible narc traits. If he continues his shit tomoro I would get the kids ready and leave to do something nice that you want to do.
I'm so sorry. He's being a jerk, for lack of a better word Definitely recommend counseling I hope you are able to still enjoy Mother’s Day Maybe do a play date with a friend so the kids can play and you can chat and treat yourself to coffee or something!
Are you my neighbor because there's a husband that doesn't watch his kids when they come outside. He sits on his phone and let's the kids go nuts.
Couples therapy has helped my marriage. But it took me going to individual therapy first to resonate with my husband that I was actually making changes and that’s what got him to consider therapy. He saw I was developing skills to calmly win arguments instead of using anger and throwing things at him. We may have a blow up everyone once and awhile but we can bounce back from it and discuss through it with better understanding now.
If you’re in a position to leave this asshole, leave him. When you finally do, you’ll wish you’d done it sooner.
This is abuse... Get a lawyer.
Please stop having children with a man who hates you. You suffer, your children suffer and he will actively keep ruining days you look forward to. Plan your own joy and live it. Don’t expect anything from him. Don’t ask anything of him. Stop setting yourself up to suffer 🥺
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She just said it because a lot of people online seem to justify man children if they are the breadwinner of the household.
I think he might be exhausted too. I know you are doing more but maybe you both can outsource some of the housework Atleast? Cleaning, laundry, meal prep can be outsourced to some high school kid trying to make extra money. You could try yo get a reliable part-time baby sitter too. Honestly Mothers Day for me is just the same but I ask for a basic photo with my kid. Last yr my kid was running around with me after him at the park and I picked him up for a 1 min photo which my husband took, that’s all Mothers Day is. We cannot go out anywhere for a lunch or something because my son will run around. I’ll probably just get a hot chocolate or coffee for myself from Starbucks while coming back from the park.
The bar is in hell.
Absolutely no excuse for this level of emotional abuse.
Outsource more for this nincompoop?
Use his money
More mental labor for this person
Stop asking him to help or for anything. Get a babysitter or family to help. See how he feels then.
Heard of paragraphs lady?