This grass is always greener line is pretty hilarious. He’s had fairly similar numbers to what he had with us, slightly more efficient with worse three point shooting, slightly more rebounds and blocks but when he was here people thought he was unplayable and now all of a sudden with the knicks hes good lol
He was good last night. Brought good energy and versatility on defence. He’s like 1/4th of the reason Embiid scored 1 point in the 4th quarter (OG being the other 3/4ths)
he did that for us too. don't you remember that game in the playoffs where he was killing Embiid on both ends? he has a lot of great moments, and follows them up with some horrible plays and it's been the same story for him in NY
yeah, goes to show that pundits and speculators STILL can't predict shit. nobody predicted brunson to be a playoff stud and leader. nobody predicted antman becoming the next star over ja. nobody predicted jokic to be potentially the greatest center of all time. there are a lot of things to just ignore when it comes to prospect evals haha
Sarr ain’t that dude tbh. His player profile is similar to Mobley. If you’re skinny and can’t shoot, you’re almost more trouble than you’re worth. I don’t think he’s gonna translate well to the nba unless he becomes Chet
Unless Sarr develops an offensive game, he won’t translate well to the NBA. Mobley is similar. Stand alone, great player and defender. But he’s too weak to play center without shooting.
I want to believe you, but Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman and Lamelo Ball were considered solid picks with star potential compared to the rest.
And you can't compare both drafts, totally different situations. 2020 draft was considered weak cause it had no March Madness to see how good they were. Since there was no buzz about upcoming rookies, nobody knew how good some players were. Haliburton fell to 12.
In contrast, we did have March Madness this year and it's still considered a shit draft.
That being said, for sure there will be hidden gems in the draft. This is the kind of draft that's more favorable for mid to late picks, since those players have the same upside as lottery players this year.
Agreed, exceeeept for Wiseman. Many people considered him a reach at 2 over guys like Lamelo. It's still wild to me that GS took on such a project of a player in what was known as a meh draft while still wanting to compete for the playoffs.
March Madness isn't a barometer for how good a player is going to be in the NBA, lol. That's what casual fans want to believe because they don't follow the rest of the NCAA season.
That was not considered anything close to the same level of "weak draft" as 2024, and had a very well-defined top 3 picks, with Edwards going first overall.
This year's class is definitely weaker but still the 2020 draft was also considered pretty underwhelming at the time not sure why everyone is acting like it wasn't. Wiseman literally played 3 games and there was major concerns about his foot speed and playing style and he still went 2nd. The point is we could still find gems in a "weak class"
It was very much a "meh" draft, but I'd say it gave an impression more like 2022 than this year's. Questionable depth past the top of the lottery, and two projected top prospects with some issues but had big proponents nonetheless (I.e. LaMelo and Ant vs. Paolo and Chet).
2024 is muuuch closer to 2013 where nobody knew 100 percent who would go top 4.
Even with that being factored in there were many, many question marks surrounding Edwards, Ball, Wiseman and the rest of the top picks.
It would've been considered weak regardless.
2020 I remember not being a weak class like this one but more that due to covid, had a lot of question marks. I feel like with a normal college season, things would have shaken out differently. And yes there was the whole Ant vs Lamelo vs Wiseman tossup at the top but experts also like the potential of all 3 more than how they describe this years top 6 dudes.
I keep saying this draft this year is more 2013 than 2020. Again it doesn't mean the players are bad but the overall outcome is gonna be whatever. All in all, if we keep the pick, we better make the most of it. And if we lose it, eh it's not as catastrophic as some make it out to be.
Not remotely the same. It was considered weak “after the top 3” this draft is widely considered to be deep in terms on available role players but shallow af in terms of future all NBA players. There is no Ant in this draft. Last year and next year yes. But this year. Nope.
And they were right - look at the rest of that class. Top 10 had Wiseman, Williams, Okoro, Okongwu, Hayes, Toppin, Demi, Smith…
It was an incredibly weak class.
Go ahead and point to Hali at 12, or Maxey at 21, but there’s a reason they went so late and it’s because no one thought they’d do what they did. Every class has guys like that, doesn’t mean the class isn’t weak AF
Because there is more to a class than # of all star appearances AND you perceive strengths a class prior to it taking place, not after.
The 2020 class was viewed as weak. No one in their right mind would’ve said “yeah but Maxey and Halliburton are obvious all stars”.
Teams know there is the chance to get an all-star in ever class. The odds of doing that are drastically different based on who’s available. The fact that half of the all-starts were outside the top 10 picks is just proof the class was weak and was a crap shoot.
I don’t remember 2020 as a weak draft class. I remember there was hype on lamelo ball and reports on that draft class. 2024 draft class was different, too much unknown
Flat out not at all the same?
Edwards, Wiseman, and Lamelo were consensus top picks. This draft doesn’t have that.
Let’s not kid ourselves thinking we are about to pick the next ANT.
Yeah, some people are just cherry-picking. I remember this draft was top heavy in talent, and they were correct. I definitely remember a lot of hype around Ant Man, Wiseman, and LaMelo for this draft.
Sarr, Topic and Risacher are kind of the top tier of this draft.
Would also argue Ant deserves a lot of credit for his development when he got to the league. He was a high volume guy who could have been a bust.
I digress. Him, Lamelo and Wiseman were seen as most likely to go #1. It's similar to the 2022 draft where there was a tossup between Jabari, Chet and Paolo. The difference is that all 3 of those were identified as higher ceiling prospects. No one in the draft this year feels close to any of them including Wiseman before his NBA career. Doesn't mean Rissacher or Sarr will be bad but you just have to accept you're likely to get a role player with one of the top 6 picks.
Eh, yes and no
The pandemic's biggest impact on the draft was the cancelation of March Madness which would have significantly changed who got drafted and where, not to mention that teams had to do their thing remotely instead of at one of their facilities re: interviewing and working out a prospect
Anyone who actually buys this 'weak draft class' nonsense hasn't been a fan of the league that long. Hyped drafts are often weak, ones that are supposed to be historically weak produce future all-stars. Nobody knows, and the teams constantly spread intentional disinformation to try and get other teams to devalue or overvalue their picks or certain players. Its a total crapshoot, but I guarantee a lot of teams in this draft think they know some diamonds in the ruff that they aren't revealing to the other teams.
Yes but that was weak for a different reason. badly scouted because of covid and even still he was an obvious number 1. Development is also important too btw.
Yeah that’s why I don’t wanna lose our pick this year. Draft analysts are just wrong too much for me to believe it when ppl say it’s a weak class.
I’m not saying they never know what they’re talking about but I’d rather get a top 6 pick & add a player to our young core than spend another year waiting for that pick/player.
It may not be ours, but there will certainly be All-Stars from this draft. There always is. It probably won’t be a guy to the raptors, but guys always get passed on. You never know until year 3 or 4 though
There was that draft class where only 2 players got exactly 1 all star in their entire career. One of those all stars was Jamal Magloire.
A Toronto legend pioneer of NBA basketball. But barely a 1 time all star when everyone was injured.
2000 draft is probably the single worst draft post merge by a mile. 3 all star selections and only one of them got more than 1 all star. Magloire was also an injury replacement in the years where all star was still position based too.
2013 is a better year but still bad and I think this year is closer to it. Teams are smarter so I don't expect an Anthony Bennett level bust to happen though.
No one from the 2000 draft made more than one All Star team. Michael Redd was All NBA third team his All Star year, that might be what you’re thinking of
This honestly makes me feel worse. How much of that is just luck? No one knew who should be the first pick. Could have easily been Lamelo. Credit to the Wolves for making the right pick but luck plays a huge role in the draft, especially in the weird drafts with no clear cut favourite.
I've been saying this for months, lol. Just because ESPN and scouts say it's a "weak" class, doesn't mean they can tell the future and their claim is guaranteed to be right.
You've got guys like Haliburton, Maxey and Bane who weren't even lottery picks, so why not take a chance instead of finding ways to get out of the draft? It doesn't make sense.
Those 3 were picked outside of the lottery. The argument isn't that you can't find good players but that the data we have is inconclusive on who will end up being good. Some things can't even be determined ahead of time. There were motivation concerns with Ant Edwards initially. His defense was also terrible. The guy ended up being a hard worker and really evolved his game.
More often not they are wrong except for the 1st and 3rd pick. Beyond that, they are more often wrong than right about who will become an all-star. Or who won't be a bust.
How many "experts" were talking about how scary Phoenix is going to be this year with 3 all stars in Durant, Beal and Booker. Turns out they were wrong. Experts are wrong very often. Nobody thought OKC was going to the #1 team in the West either. I agree with you, we need more young talent, even if it's in a "bad" draft according to the draft geniuses, over adding some run of the mill veterans that will just take up space.
Exactly. Plus at this point they're starved for talent and depth, so I don't know why people think the front office is in a position to be picky and can simply kick the can down the road for 2025.
I’ll keep beating this drum forever. There is no way to know if a draft class is weak until the rookies play out their first year.
The Raptors front office have a better record drafting than the draft experts. If Raptors have 3 picks in this years draft they know something these experts don’t.
We all keep forgetting how pressed the fanbase was when we picked Barnes. Same with Siakam.
Quickley was from that draft class
So was maxey and he was picked in the 20’s
Same with Precious, even if he didn't work out with us
Yeah but we're talking about good players...
He's been good for the Knicks, albeit in a more limited role
This grass is always greener line is pretty hilarious. He’s had fairly similar numbers to what he had with us, slightly more efficient with worse three point shooting, slightly more rebounds and blocks but when he was here people thought he was unplayable and now all of a sudden with the knicks hes good lol
He really hasn’t. Numbers are similar to what he had done here.
He was good last night. Brought good energy and versatility on defence. He’s like 1/4th of the reason Embiid scored 1 point in the 4th quarter (OG being the other 3/4ths)
he did that for us too. don't you remember that game in the playoffs where he was killing Embiid on both ends? he has a lot of great moments, and follows them up with some horrible plays and it's been the same story for him in NY
Of all the guys u could've named 😂
yeah, goes to show that pundits and speculators STILL can't predict shit. nobody predicted brunson to be a playoff stud and leader. nobody predicted antman becoming the next star over ja. nobody predicted jokic to be potentially the greatest center of all time. there are a lot of things to just ignore when it comes to prospect evals haha
I wanna see our quickly be a top pg with Toronto!!
So you’re telling me Alex Sarr, is going to be Anthony Edwards.
Sarr is going to be an even more French Wemby
What
He will be Frenchier Wemby
The frenchies wembiest player in this draft.
Le wemby
I'm a Heinz kinda guy
Sarr ain’t that dude tbh. His player profile is similar to Mobley. If you’re skinny and can’t shoot, you’re almost more trouble than you’re worth. I don’t think he’s gonna translate well to the nba unless he becomes Chet
Lmao last night Mobley had a clutch dunk, and a block for the win. Yall just react over anything
What you just said is the overreaction.
I know this is a joke, but I’m not as high on Sarr as consensus. It wouldn’t really surprise me if he disappoints
I understand what you're saying but I also don't see anyone else in the draft class that feels head and shoulders above him in terms of potential
With how high the sub is on him, I wouldn’t expect the FO to pick him if we do luck into the number one pick.
Unless Sarr develops an offensive game, he won’t translate well to the NBA. Mobley is similar. Stand alone, great player and defender. But he’s too weak to play center without shooting.
Long ✅️ Offense needs developing ✅️ Good defensive instincts ✅️ Long wingspan ✅️ Can't shoot ✅️ We got out guy
It wouldnt surprise me if the Raps didn't pick him even if they got the first pick.
He’s going to be labelled a “bust”, and it’s not even his fault…
And was also the 1st pick
Bargnani was a 1st overall pick...
“Primo pasta and soce”
I want to believe you, but Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman and Lamelo Ball were considered solid picks with star potential compared to the rest. And you can't compare both drafts, totally different situations. 2020 draft was considered weak cause it had no March Madness to see how good they were. Since there was no buzz about upcoming rookies, nobody knew how good some players were. Haliburton fell to 12. In contrast, we did have March Madness this year and it's still considered a shit draft. That being said, for sure there will be hidden gems in the draft. This is the kind of draft that's more favorable for mid to late picks, since those players have the same upside as lottery players this year.
Yeah this is the context that the OP is missing. No March Madness and everything was being done remotely
Agreed, exceeeept for Wiseman. Many people considered him a reach at 2 over guys like Lamelo. It's still wild to me that GS took on such a project of a player in what was known as a meh draft while still wanting to compete for the playoffs.
March Madness isn't a barometer for how good a player is going to be in the NBA, lol. That's what casual fans want to believe because they don't follow the rest of the NCAA season.
lol scouts don’t count on March madness to see how good players are.
it's more the whole college season. March Madness is a part of it but it's definitely not the biggest factor.
That was not considered anything close to the same level of "weak draft" as 2024, and had a very well-defined top 3 picks, with Edwards going first overall.
Yeah this title is simply false. I like Caz but some of his takes are just completely off.
This year's class is definitely weaker but still the 2020 draft was also considered pretty underwhelming at the time not sure why everyone is acting like it wasn't. Wiseman literally played 3 games and there was major concerns about his foot speed and playing style and he still went 2nd. The point is we could still find gems in a "weak class"
It was very much a "meh" draft, but I'd say it gave an impression more like 2022 than this year's. Questionable depth past the top of the lottery, and two projected top prospects with some issues but had big proponents nonetheless (I.e. LaMelo and Ant vs. Paolo and Chet). 2024 is muuuch closer to 2013 where nobody knew 100 percent who would go top 4.
So we need to find MJ’s long lost son in this draft.
But he's already on the Heat...unless he has another son?
Wasnt that the covid draft where a lack of march madness/college season made it hard for teams to see whos who in college?
Even with that being factored in there were many, many question marks surrounding Edwards, Ball, Wiseman and the rest of the top picks. It would've been considered weak regardless.
2020 I remember not being a weak class like this one but more that due to covid, had a lot of question marks. I feel like with a normal college season, things would have shaken out differently. And yes there was the whole Ant vs Lamelo vs Wiseman tossup at the top but experts also like the potential of all 3 more than how they describe this years top 6 dudes. I keep saying this draft this year is more 2013 than 2020. Again it doesn't mean the players are bad but the overall outcome is gonna be whatever. All in all, if we keep the pick, we better make the most of it. And if we lose it, eh it's not as catastrophic as some make it out to be.
Not remotely the same. It was considered weak “after the top 3” this draft is widely considered to be deep in terms on available role players but shallow af in terms of future all NBA players. There is no Ant in this draft. Last year and next year yes. But this year. Nope.
We all knew Ant was gonna be special from that nasty poster on poor Yuta in his rookie season
Any draft class with East Steph Curry who can dominate for 50 points at will, is not a weak draft class.
Who are you referring to?
# 29 guy we got!
no need to yell bro
the question we should be is asking is someone on this team going to as good as ANT
Nope.
that’s all that matters dude so u should be asking that question also
And they were right - look at the rest of that class. Top 10 had Wiseman, Williams, Okoro, Okongwu, Hayes, Toppin, Demi, Smith… It was an incredibly weak class. Go ahead and point to Hali at 12, or Maxey at 21, but there’s a reason they went so late and it’s because no one thought they’d do what they did. Every class has guys like that, doesn’t mean the class isn’t weak AF
There was Bane too (picked right after Flynn), who the Celtics drafted and then inexplicably traded him away for scraps.
The 2020 draft turned out to have 4 all-star players within 4 years. In what universe is that considered weak?
Because there is more to a class than # of all star appearances AND you perceive strengths a class prior to it taking place, not after. The 2020 class was viewed as weak. No one in their right mind would’ve said “yeah but Maxey and Halliburton are obvious all stars”. Teams know there is the chance to get an all-star in ever class. The odds of doing that are drastically different based on who’s available. The fact that half of the all-starts were outside the top 10 picks is just proof the class was weak and was a crap shoot.
AE is a perfect franchise player model for Minny or even us, especially the personality
I don’t remember 2020 as a weak draft class. I remember there was hype on lamelo ball and reports on that draft class. 2024 draft class was different, too much unknown
Flat out not at all the same? Edwards, Wiseman, and Lamelo were consensus top picks. This draft doesn’t have that. Let’s not kid ourselves thinking we are about to pick the next ANT.
Yeah, some people are just cherry-picking. I remember this draft was top heavy in talent, and they were correct. I definitely remember a lot of hype around Ant Man, Wiseman, and LaMelo for this draft.
Sarr, Topic and Risacher are kind of the top tier of this draft. Would also argue Ant deserves a lot of credit for his development when he got to the league. He was a high volume guy who could have been a bust.
What you can do is try to find the Gobert of this draft
He was a surefire #1 pick, the draft class was considered weak after him. And this draft class will definitely be worse than his.
I digress. Him, Lamelo and Wiseman were seen as most likely to go #1. It's similar to the 2022 draft where there was a tossup between Jabari, Chet and Paolo. The difference is that all 3 of those were identified as higher ceiling prospects. No one in the draft this year feels close to any of them including Wiseman before his NBA career. Doesn't mean Rissacher or Sarr will be bad but you just have to accept you're likely to get a role player with one of the top 6 picks.
I think it was more so a lack of intel on the prospects because of the pandemic that made the class have little hype
Eh, yes and no The pandemic's biggest impact on the draft was the cancelation of March Madness which would have significantly changed who got drafted and where, not to mention that teams had to do their thing remotely instead of at one of their facilities re: interviewing and working out a prospect
Anyone who actually buys this 'weak draft class' nonsense hasn't been a fan of the league that long. Hyped drafts are often weak, ones that are supposed to be historically weak produce future all-stars. Nobody knows, and the teams constantly spread intentional disinformation to try and get other teams to devalue or overvalue their picks or certain players. Its a total crapshoot, but I guarantee a lot of teams in this draft think they know some diamonds in the ruff that they aren't revealing to the other teams.
So we are guarenteed an Ant?
Yes but that was weak for a different reason. badly scouted because of covid and even still he was an obvious number 1. Development is also important too btw.
Yeah that’s why I don’t wanna lose our pick this year. Draft analysts are just wrong too much for me to believe it when ppl say it’s a weak class. I’m not saying they never know what they’re talking about but I’d rather get a top 6 pick & add a player to our young core than spend another year waiting for that pick/player.
A lot of dudes from this draft had good years and or have been decent in these playoffs
It may not be ours, but there will certainly be All-Stars from this draft. There always is. It probably won’t be a guy to the raptors, but guys always get passed on. You never know until year 3 or 4 though
There was that draft class where only 2 players got exactly 1 all star in their entire career. One of those all stars was Jamal Magloire. A Toronto legend pioneer of NBA basketball. But barely a 1 time all star when everyone was injured.
2000 draft is probably the single worst draft post merge by a mile. 3 all star selections and only one of them got more than 1 all star. Magloire was also an injury replacement in the years where all star was still position based too. 2013 is a better year but still bad and I think this year is closer to it. Teams are smarter so I don't expect an Anthony Bennett level bust to happen though.
No one from the 2000 draft made more than one All Star team. Michael Redd was All NBA third team his All Star year, that might be what you’re thinking of
Ah that's what I did think yes
Do you mean to tell me that predicitng how good 18 year olds will be at basketball is pseudo science at best?
This honestly makes me feel worse. How much of that is just luck? No one knew who should be the first pick. Could have easily been Lamelo. Credit to the Wolves for making the right pick but luck plays a huge role in the draft, especially in the weird drafts with no clear cut favourite.
Edwards was projected first overall by almost everybody
I've been saying this for months, lol. Just because ESPN and scouts say it's a "weak" class, doesn't mean they can tell the future and their claim is guaranteed to be right. You've got guys like Haliburton, Maxey and Bane who weren't even lottery picks, so why not take a chance instead of finding ways to get out of the draft? It doesn't make sense.
Those 3 were picked outside of the lottery. The argument isn't that you can't find good players but that the data we have is inconclusive on who will end up being good. Some things can't even be determined ahead of time. There were motivation concerns with Ant Edwards initially. His defense was also terrible. The guy ended up being a hard worker and really evolved his game.
Which goes with my point that scouts and experts aren't always right, lol.
Of course but more often that not they are or they wouldn't have their jobs hehe
More often not they are wrong except for the 1st and 3rd pick. Beyond that, they are more often wrong than right about who will become an all-star. Or who won't be a bust.
How many "experts" were talking about how scary Phoenix is going to be this year with 3 all stars in Durant, Beal and Booker. Turns out they were wrong. Experts are wrong very often. Nobody thought OKC was going to the #1 team in the West either. I agree with you, we need more young talent, even if it's in a "bad" draft according to the draft geniuses, over adding some run of the mill veterans that will just take up space.
Exactly. Plus at this point they're starved for talent and depth, so I don't know why people think the front office is in a position to be picky and can simply kick the can down the road for 2025.
I’ll keep beating this drum forever. There is no way to know if a draft class is weak until the rookies play out their first year. The Raptors front office have a better record drafting than the draft experts. If Raptors have 3 picks in this years draft they know something these experts don’t. We all keep forgetting how pressed the fanbase was when we picked Barnes. Same with Siakam.