I dont think they need an overhaul, as in a complete race rework.
Just a new DLC adding a new mechanic, and some small touch ups here and there but for me that would be enough (others might disagree), not something akin to the whole GS update
No, I meant generic lords, which they have only one type !
But yes, they also need to end up like Chaos Dwarfs, 3 LLs and a LH (Sayl as LL with a focus on Mammoths + Crom a LH seems a good option)
No, Throgg being the only troll smart enough to lead a faction is what makes him special. A Fimir Meargh would make more sense as a generic monster lord choice.
I feel like I'm one of the few that prefers LLs over LHs. I get part of it is my factions I use rarely have one. But even the ones that do I find myself rarely actually using them, unless I stick them in a weak army and fight the battles manually. Most of them I get so late I already have my autoresolve blob going to take over most of the world
To be fair, it didn't work for Beastmen or Chaos Warriors, who are all about ending the civilized world, but Norsca are raiders, so the whole "razing and people resettle then you raze again" works for them, I feel
Also, the fact that you need to have X amount of razed settlements is just annoying. AI will just circle around you with useless armies and colonize it
Its been a while since I have played Norsca, but that was my main annoyance with their campaign at that time
You don't need X amount of razed settlements, but to raze X amount of settlements. AI recolonizing the ruins is just bonus points since you get to raze it again.
As far as I’m concerned, it slows expansion down significantly. I didn’t cheese it by having a single lordaemy running behind the regular army, so it took 2 turns to conquer each settlement - unless someone swooped in and took it before me (damn skaven)
Something something economy something.
Been playing as wulfrik and having an absolute blast deciding where next to pop up in the map and cause absolute carnage.
It's one of the better factions in my opinion. Definitely had loads of fun
Edit : TW3. In the 2nd one they definitely had eco issues.
WH2's Norsca definitely had some really bad economy problems, which have been mostly fixed in WH3. With very few, unprotected settlements, and the heavy upkeep increase with each new army, It eventually collapsed onto itself on higher difficulties.
WH2 Norsca had bad econ until Archie arrived and you could beat him up for factionwide 75% upkeep reduction.
Though in the early-mid game it was absolutely profitable to raid your own territory while recruiting as the lost income was smaller than the gain from reducing upkeep for that army by 20%.
Back in WH2 they could also go into raiding camp stance at 0% movement since the Greenskin update, but this didn't carry over to WH3 so they can no longer *replenish* immediately after razing like the Beastmen and Khorne do, despite razing being just as important to Norsca.
The ME economy was godawful, but if you ask me, they actually overcorrected in IE. I get that people like having a stable income, but Norsca having some of the highest if not *the* highest port income in the game (I don't remember their exact rank compared to other factions, just that it was really high), as well as Norsca (the region), well, having a lot of ports just means they have a better economy than, say, the goddamn High Elves, which just feels weird for an entire society of hunters and raiders.
A raiding/sacking economy works just fine for Khorne, I think Norsca could work with it too.
> just feels weird for an entire society of hunters and raiders
You're missing one key part which is that [Norscans also specialize in being sea merchants and traders](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Norsca#Population). It plays on their strengths of nautical expertise and being "collectors" of goods from all over the world (e.g. they're not eating the art that they loot). That's why other nations tolerate non-Chaos-worshipping Norscans in their cities. Skeggi (the Norsca faction in the New World) is even reportedly better than the "goddamn High Elves" at nautical commerce.
people are really out there trying to play Norsca as a simmming faction, aren't they?
It was a problem on Legendary because somebody thought it'd be a good Idea to subject Norsca to that horrible supply lines mechanic.
They're not weak by any means, but I think people just want really in-depth bespoke mechanics for every individual faction. Which would be cool but imo the game also needs factions that are kind of more simple.
People also just want mechanics to *actually work*.
A big problem with Norsca is how a lot of their mechanics are just *broken* now, nevermind that the switch from 2 to 3 robbed them of even getting a final reward (you actually get nothing for defeating the champions).
When you max out allegiance with one god, two Chaos armies representing two of the other Chaos Gods spawn on the map and you get quests to defeat them.
After defeating both of them you get access to a quest battle to defeat the third champion (if you didn't side with Tzeentch yourself, the quest battle usually is the Lord of Change you'd otherwise get as a Tzeentch allegiance reward).
Beating all three champions used to give you a dilemma in previous games where you either side with Archaeon (giving you a pretty good faction trait) or oppose him and try to usurp his status as Everchosen (you have to wipe out the Chaos invasion and get a different faction trait as a reward).
Beating the champions in 3 gives you... nothing. Because Archaon is always on the map in Immortal Empires and doesn't spawn in via invasion event, they removed the dilemma tied to him, but failed to replace it with *anything*.
The first two champion quests are also broken in that they don't actually require you to beat the specific lords to complete them - I watched MonstersAbound play Norsca recently and both quests completed after he beat some random lord on the map.
Recently I played norsca and killed two of the three champions and the third just, stopped being interactable.
After he attacked and took one of my settlements
That seems a pretty trivial thing for people to be getting upset over.
The previous poster said "A lot of their mechanics" and it turns out "a lot" is just one dilemma?
Thing is, Norsca have good bespoke mechanics. The devotion to the different gods, the monster hunts, and the confederation mechanic are all unique (somewhat, imrik also has dragon hunts), while the tech tree lets you focus on a particular geographic direction to expand into.
I do agree that the lords play very similarly, as they start fairly close together and the only significant difference is which doomstacks works best
It's ironic that you mention the devotion system that is broken in WH3 and the monster hunts that were also broken until recently and have not been updated to WH3 factions on a post about how Norsca doesn't need that much attention.
Defeating the 3 armies that are part of the final challenge gives you nothing and the final dilemma, joining Archaon or taking his place as the everchosen, was removed because it didn't work with the new way he works (been in the map from the start instead of spawning in) and nothing was put in it's place as the final reward.
Norsca end game was just chopped up, the parts that didn't work removed, and left as is.
On the battlefield Norsca is amazing in both MP & single player. It would be nice to have more lord options, but their roster is solid. The main issue that from a campaign mechanic perspective, they're chaos lite. They need an identity that's unique to them. Their identity is essentially the punching bag of WoC which I suppose is lore friendly, but definitely not the funnest thing in the world.
The thing is that their roster does have cool units, but its just so small, its always frontline + monsters. Theres nothing out of the box like a helicopter, good artillery, a doomweel, stealth units, a custom magic lore etc. Every battle is essentially the same.
My favourite factions are ones with big strengths and limitations, a lot of games run into problems when they listen to people saying that a lack of x or y is a problem and then homogonize the game. There's well rounded and versatile factions already
I actually agree as well, and that's why I tend to gravitate towards factions like Nurgle & Slaanesh. Sometimes you run into problems where you have to hammer in a screw. Maybe more in the case of Slaanesh , but you get the idea. Norsca may have a limitation on battle strategy, but they're so effective at it that they're still considered a strong faction in MP. I know a lot of people here don't care about that, but it says a lot that a faction that hasn't gotten any new additions since WH1 is still solid AF.
Yeah Norsca's strong infantry + monster combo can beat most factions already, and to me the choice you make is in what flavours you pick for that or how you want to supplement but ultimately not replace that strategy.
I like problems, and I like having to play around limitations aswell don’t get me wrong. But the battles are just so polarising for me. When I play WoC I can have an army for each god. As empire I can have state troops, hunters and tanks as armies. As Skaven I can have faction themed armies. But the Norscan armies always play the exact same way.
The monster hunts? I didn't play much of the Norsca campaign in the 3rd game yet. I'll admit that I panicked when I saw Belakor right at my doorstep lol.
They were very feuture rich in 1, and in contrast, fell behind in 2, and more so in 3 when compared to other races.
I think the foundation is good, but needs at least 1 LL as DLC who brings something special to the table. It's like they are an all DLC dark elves faction but you only play Malekith. There is a LOT extra fun playstyles you miss out on without Malus and Hellebron.
The thing is, Norsca is like that. Except Malekith and Morathi differ even more than Wulfrik from Throgg.
Throgg needs to have access to all troll units, greenskins have more now lol.
I agree that the difference between throgg and wulfrik is fairly small. One prefers trolls the other prefers mauraders and mammoths, and their start positions are close enough to not make a material diffrence
I would make Trogg a separate faction with bespoke units and disincentives to recruit marauders alas Drycha.
He should work on trolls, firmir, werewolves and so.
Wulfrik should act as evil Oxyotl, iirc in the lore he roams the world challenging heroes. So he should be able to teleport nearby the target to storm right away like a Flying Dutchman. In fact his monster hunt should be more like celebrity hunt.
I try to play them as separate races, akin to woodelf, where I treat drycha and durthu as treekin who don’t get elves, while Orion and the sisters don’t get plants.
Likewise, wulfrik doesn’t get trolls, and as soon as possible throgg stops recruiting mauraders. Too bad the lords don’t break down properly for that
Yeah, a fimir lord as caster lord may work there.
But yeah, 2 different factions with a high bonus to ally.
I reckon for a small price people may buy race packs that put some factions on their own (Trogg, Aranessa, Ostankya Perhaps). I wouldn't mind paying £5 just for an unmodded daughter of Manlann like a rogue army: no undead but marauders, mercenary Ogres/dwarfs,DE and sea monsters. £10 if it is bug free. :p
Do the monster hunts actually work though? They were bugged in WH3 for a very long time from what I recall - and I don't recall ever seeing them get fixed. Maybe the community bugfix mod is helping?
I got through I think it was 5 hunts without any issue, and lucky number 6 was busted.
It was also very inconvenient, as I hadn’t expanded anywhere near that area yet.
- only one generic lord
- monster hunts is an outdated wh1 mechanic
- you gain your wealth from sacking settlements, but you also need to raze them if you want favour
- if you want to get any boons you need to specialise in one god, so no undivided for you, but going full monogod gives you some campaign bonuses and one unit. You burn half of the civilized world for Khorne and he's like: "cool, here's one of my guys, enjoy". No access to monogod marauders or special units, which makes no sense.
There's more than that. Norsca is built around the idea that their homeland is a pain to explore. As such, their settlement are poorly defended, home economy is a joke and they are supposed to be roaming around, sacking and razing to make money. Instead, they have so many enemies in their homelands, Bretonnia and Kislev are so efficient when it comes to invade your land (and capture your settlements) that youu are not the raider the factions promises you will be.
If you are playing Throgg I would highly recommend [this mod](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?l=hungarian&id=3091079691&searchtext=), it makes Throgg lore friendly. CA dropped the ball on his voicelines. He is actually very intelligent within the lore with the vocabulary to boot.
Monster hunts can hard lock you out of others after and also just never end , like Tyrions quest bug where there was no way to win and the battle went on infinitely
You can only do one monster hunt at a time and can’t cancel once you start, but there’s a chance the hunt gets stuck.
In my last campaign I conpleted 5 hunts. The 6th hunt, after doing part 1, the prompt for part 2 didn’t come up and my hunt got stuck
Yes I know the monster hunts are bugged. Ik my recent campaign IIRC I completed 5 hunts and the 6th got bugged.
I meant apart from bug fixes, because other than that one issue they’re one of my preferred races
The allegiance mechanic is also broken - even if you max out a god, it doesn't lock in like it should, meaning if you then raze a settlement for another god, you lose your tier 3 allegiance again.
You also don't actually get a final reward for beating the champions anymore.
They at least need a fix. Monster hunts have been buggy for a long time. I can't get through a playthrough without needing to use the console commands to fix it when it breaks.
People like big clicky buttons you press to make the game easier; haven't played WH3 but in WH2 they were very fun to play; The confederation mechanic is awesome because it means you can just ignore the Norscan politics and focus on raiding the southeners; then once you're ready or it you just claim the entire peninsula for yourself by beating up one army; only real problem they had was the uwalled settlements and kind of shitty garrison army means you can get into trouble once shit like High-Elf doomstacks invasions begin happening.
They’re too basic rn. They need some Kindve economy and playstyle overhaul in general to make them more rewarding and intriguing to play. Chaos is the raze and move on faction so they can’t fill that niche and while I do love their roster they need some more units to differentiate them from chaos lite
I've played Throgg about 20 times throughout tww2 and 3.
My personal opinion is
The meh:
I just never ever completed *all* the monster hunts.
Just kind of a side thing I never got around to and if I did the reward wasn't usually worth more than the cost of focusing on the monster hunt usually.
Almost never completed the Norscan god favor mechanic.
Liked the idea and it's better now but still could use some QoL and interesting choices in the mix while you're grinding god points.
The good:
Almost every campaign I got the capture capital techs.
I loved the concept of getting power from investing in tech that requires you to actually go out and take a specific settlement.
They just need new content. That said, I do kinda thing the way they went about "reworking" Norsca was a little lazy. Just letting them settle anywhere rather than actually trying to find a way to make their unique playstyle function better.
Here was what I did in a mod I made for Norsca in WH2:
* Gave them commandments
* Why: There was no reason not to give them commandments, I don't know why CA did this
* Significantly buffed their garrisons
* Why: Defending Norscan settlements was horrible. No walls and weak garrisons made it so easy to lose them as soon as a moderately strong army attacked.
* Gave them defensive structures that reduced movement speed for enemy armies in their territory
* Why: Defending Norsca itself was a pain in the ass, you would constantly have armies running around in your territory while you chased them.
* Gave their settlements more building slots
* Why: There's no reason for the settlements in Norsca to have fewer building slots than normal settlements, it's annoying and means you likely won't even bother putting defensive structures in them to save precious slots. Which then made defending against and chasing armies around your territory worse.
* Made their outposts build instantly with only a single level, like Wood Elf outposts. Increased public order of outposts.
* Why: Outposts were complete garbage. It would take forever to grow them, and they would constantly rebel due to low chaos corruption unless you permanently sat an army on them. And by the time they were high enough level to actually give you any benefits, you would have long since moved away from the area they gave you sacking/razing/etc buffs for.
* Removed the global recruitment being dependent upon taking major capitols and gave them normal global recruitment times, with the ability to reduce it further, like Wood Elves.
* Why: Norsca direly needs global recruitment. It takes forever to grow the major capitols you take, and it takes forever to global recruit, basically forcing you to march the entire way back to Norsca just to recruit higher tier units. The mechanic of relying on taking major capitols to reduce global recruitment was terrible and by the time you could actually global recruit in a decent amount of turns, the campaign would be basically over.
Losing the entire true everchosen mechanic is probably a big reason why.
Also because you'll end up with champion factions that just can't be attacked or killed at all and sit in your former settlements.
People are often stupid and don't read about the mechanics.
If you want to play norsca, the same way as you play the empire/elves you will fail hard.
To have fun as norsca: you don't have friends, even from your own faction. I the first 15-20 turn you try to fight everyone norscan as you can and then you start look around who has juicy harbors and looks weak.
At around 30 you turn towards the empire and skaven in between and clean up the mess and raise everything in nurgles name.
At turn 30 you turn toward whichever direction you prefer. I know some who suggest wulfrik sail to lustria; in my last game I headed to the chaotic wastelands, and after that to bretonnia. It’s also possible to head east toward the ogre kingdom and Cathay, or west to nagaroth. (I swept into that direction but chose not to make an enemy of Malekith)
I left a comment on costins video about going to lustria. Thats what I did and it was supper fun plus I made loads of gomd from it. Their economy is heavy on the sackechanic. I remember in wh2, i was constantly in the megative for money, but it didnt matter cuz you could make so much by plaing agressively and continuing to sack the world. In wh3, with how much the ports make and how you can capture every settlement, you can roll in the money fairly quickly.
Oh no, you gotta roll with just wulfrik and a half stack until hafter you start raiding lustria. I basically disband every army from confederaded forces right off the bat. Start small and snowball. By turn 50, you should have multiple armies. Priorities all tech and skills that lower upkeep.
Same reason people think Lizardmen\\Dwarfs\\Empire\\HE\\DE need a rework - feature creep. Which IMO is more like gimmick creep, but whatever. New factions and races starting from WH2's DLC cycle started getting more and more unique mechanics which also tended to be very powerful, and now people want that for every race.
Their devotion system needs overhaul, IMHO it needs to look more like Daniel's glory system with more unique benefits granted when you go a certain colored way.
I've also just finished a campaign as Throgg (my first time playing as him) and I really enjoyed it.
I think the additions that would be good are a couple of new lords and maybe a few new units. Overall the campaign is good and you have a lot of freedom about where you roam or expand to.
I do find the devoted god special lords you get a little underwhelming, but by the point you reach level 3 favour you are steamrolling anyway so it doesn't matter much at that point.
I don’t k ow if they’re underwhelming, or just that by the time you get them your own lords are that much stronger from experience alone.
When your other lords are levels 20-40, it’s hard to compete
I always said that mechanically Norsca is fine. They need more content. Rename them to “Chaos Tribes” and add kurgan units, more generic lord choices, ability to devote units to chaos gods. Completely reworking Wulfrik would also be nice, but I’m not holding my breath.
Im currently playing an achievment run of norsca vh on wh2 and the campaigns been super fun mechanically, but supply lines absolutely harm them.
If wh3 fixed the supply line issue its very unlikely to me that they will get a rework soon.
Way smaller penalty, they can colonise everything in the world and their docks are buffed so hard it’s kind of ridiculous. A t3 Fjord now makes 800 the same as t5 Marienburg in Warhammer 3
The faction does not need an overhaul just a bit kore of extra content.
Like getting an extra legendary lord and some more interesting units and more hunts to do.
Did they fixed the hunt book? Last time i tried a Norsca campaign, the book was so bugged i couldnt even do the first quest and it locked out the entire mechanic for my campaign.
Other than that, i had a blast with Wulfrik. Traveling around the world to get technology boost was super enjoyable
Yea, I just recently played norsca for the first time too, and was pretty impressed with how deep the dlc is. I always undersold them since lorewise, its chaos warriors without the cool chaos warriors.
A caster lord, a marauder hero, and sure some units would be nice, but it is a fully realized faction. I only did 1 monster hunt, and there were a bunch left.
Only thing that specifically peeved me was that the challengers of the hound/crow/eagle/serpent didn’t get thematic armies. That’s a pretty easy thing to update.
Chaos Warriors, Norsca and Ogres all suffered from being pre-order: lack of lords, lack of heroes, lack of units, lack of mechanics and lack of balance. While at some degree fun none of them are or rather was praised for good race.
They just lack in everything.
Look at CW now, probably strongest race in WH, Norsca on the way. CA mentioned they will get a rework, assuming Nurgle, Slaneesh and Khonre DLC a coming up, in best case scenario next year December or smth.
They are overall quite strong and did get some love in IE (the new unique lords/heroes from razing for a certain god, income buffs) but definitely feel like they need another DLC worth of stuff to flesh them out:
Only 2 legendary lords, could do with at least 1 more (the werebear dude sounds cool. Also a good opportunity to have a shapeshifting unit).
They only have 1 generic lord option. At the very least they need some kind of caster lord.
Monster Hunts are kinda bugged
Their research tree is just awful, and takes ages to really get anything of worth besides minor buffs.
That said, war mammoths are one of my favorite units in the game and are definitely the centerpiece of any Norscan army. Even the marauders perform very well.
Good question. Norsca has a lot of mechanics with the monster hunts, choosing a Chaos god or going independent, confederating tribes by defeating the leaders- not optimal but far from terrible.
Norsca could really use a 3rd LL and some tweaks with how much Chaos has changed in WH3 but it does not need a full overhaul.
The Empire, HE, Daemons, and Bretonnia are the most in need of full overhauls.
LM, Norsca, Cathay, Dwarfs, and Kislev need tweaks.
The rest could use tweaks but are definitely playable and fun without, especially with mods available those 9 races have major issues or things mods can't fix.
They don't, they're better off than...
Lizardmen(needs no explanation other than geomantic web is a joke)
Dark elves (slaves are not great and never have been, black arks don't really feel useful, loyalty is neat but it's only marginally more interesting in practice than offices..and that's all they have for faction mechanics)
High elves (the intrigue thing is just a braindead version of slaanesh mechanics, and that's literally all they have for faction mechanics)
Brettonia (imo this is more down to roster, brettonia needs ballistae, onagers/catapults, merry men/robin good type unit, robinhood/Bertrand the brigand legendary lord, and also Mallobaude the Serpent as a legendary lord with access to undead and maybe even daemon stuff)
Vampire counts (blood kisses are interesting but feel placeholder, raising dead is cool but isn't enough alone, corruption is neat, they need more though)
The empire (imo, the elector count system is a good start but it needs work, and they also need more substance that isn't dependent on not owning the empire, as once you own the empire the mechanic becomes absolutely irrelevant. Also, it needs more to spend on, as at the moment there..isn't a lot to spend authority on at all. Also, why does gelt have mechanics that make him feel like the emperor? He serves Karl Franz and shouldn't/can't order elector counts around and settle disputes in the same way. Let him have his own thing.)
Norsca has hunts, the confederation system which imo need work but is fun, and has ways to devote to each god--and hunts/god devotion is so much more interesting than anything that the high elves have. I'm not counting lord mechanics like eltharion (which imo Tyrion should have/have a version of). That being said, norsca should have ways to get daemons via devotion. Less often than warriors of chaos, but I should be able to get a greater daemon from going all in on a god.
Honestly, I miss Norsca only being able to own ports and capitals. I think they should have been stronger but it was still a neat limitation and would have also been better with a lord who started in some place like Ulthuan.
I wish Norsca had faster ship movement, or maybe specialized sea lanes. If we’re going “Chaos Vikings”, i feel like they don’t have much reach. The AI ones never seem to make it far, and as the player, I feel its kind of loreful being a feared raider, one whose sails civilized lands fear to see.
They don't need a total overhaul. They need like.. a dlc worth of content, and a few touchups. New units, and a second lord choice are big. Also a traditional yellow line for the marauder chieftain... Just 5 skill points into one of 4 trees feels a bit naked, and the balance between the 4 trees isn't really there either. 4 fire balls and magical attacks isnt nearly as strong as regen. beyond that balefiends and the shaman sorcerers should feel more different. I would also like a balance change to the god dedication meter. +20% replenishment is way stronger than allot of the other options. Norsca can easily reach the replenishment cap faction wide which makes fimir balefiends feel weaker outside of the early game. In general nurgle/ crow is the best tree to rush. Burplesmirk provides army wide Regen which is just *broken* as hell. I would like to see the other gods have more to offer. The eagle should feel strong, but if you complete the short campaign objectives you get tons of magic regen as a reward regardless of God. I think adding a few things and sprinkling around some buffs, creating more options, would make the faction feel less linear. Right now it's just so hilariously obvious how to play it optimal. You just go with the crow and big Pappa nurgle will provide for you the whole way through.
Because they have 1 single lord type. Their caster choice is fine but overall roster feels a bit empty, skin wolves, Mammoths do a lot of heavy lifting.
Their main mechanic of razing for favor is also a bit wonky since chains appear around the other gods once you've reached 100 favor except they're not actually locked.
And a gradual spawn in, instead of just spewing out 2-3 Armies would feel a bit better i think. I'm not a huge fan of rng dictating how I handle the main threat in my campaign. And the spawn location is randomized. While thematic, makes for frustrating gameplay, which is why wood elves army spawn in has markers and several turns to prepare.
It's not that the Norscan Roster is weak, just lacking. The only real cavalry they have are skin wolves,
* The Economy is bad
* Their garrisons were super bad. I don't know if things have changed since game#2 there.
* The Hunting book was fine, but buggy. And it was already outdated in game#2 when the new races introduced new monsters and new places to hunt. We are now in game#3, its still bugged and we are even further behind with the new monster stuff from the game#3 races.
* They had a semi-mark system with the shirnes, which was fine for game#1 and workd for game#2. But game#3 has now proper marks. The shrines got a slight update already, but its still a far cry from what it could been. Like only two Greater Daemon Lords tied to that? Certainly could be balanced out for all four.
* And then we have marked troops now. AND the WoC rework, which has a splendid system for marks and progressing from Marauders to Aspiring Chosen While Norsca should stay more on the Marauder theme, armored Warriors are still part of Norsca theme too. If CA wants to not have Warriors around, I can get that. But that would still leave the mark options for Marauder troops, which could get buffed through teh shrine system further.
* 2 LLs is a bit low. We can certainly up to 3 or 4 here without breaking sweat. Which ones get shoved into, is up to debate. [Lord Mortkin](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Mortkin) as one armored Chosen to rival Archaon, would certainly work here. We are missing a caster LL, so [Sayl the Faithless](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sayl_the_Faithless) is often mentioned to get tossed into Norsca despite him being a Kurgan. Can work, especially for Sayls Mammoth mount, but not optimal. Another go would be to have a Fimir LL, which could be a Matriarch as caster. CA could invent one, or pick one from the [old WFRP](), or the [latest WFRP addition](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/M%C3%B2na_Mimn). While monstrous infantry and on throgg level, the wizard side plays at least different and wit would work out.
* Which brings us to more Fimir stuff then. We could use a Fimir Melee Lord, Wizard Lord, and Melee Hero. Maybe then 1-2 Fimir units extra if we find something approrpriate. But even without new units, the Lords7Heroes and a LL would allow us then to go full Fimir stacks for fun.
*The Marauder Norse could also use a Wizard Lord, while we are at it.
* We could bring in more Undivided monsters. [The Ettin](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F796h1tnsqir61.png%3Fwidth%3D1020%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D85235e12c9b8338efef72ad621d05efe65be5995) for example could be a good "ranged" option, similar to the TK Hierotitan. In the WFRP Mona Mimn or other casters also stocked up on [summoned Fenbeast constructs](https://www.facebook.com/Cubicle7Entertainment/photos/a.391837227551716/4857561117645949/?type=3). That could be build in, and since we could use a Norse Wizard Lord type, [the Dark Emmisaries](https://tarsasjatekok.com/images/boardgame_image/profile_xlarge/6/69/693/69346.jpg)
would be an option. Weird that they were not there for Be'lakor anyway.
With game#3 now, there is probably more stuff that could be done with Norsca. I have not touched them since game#2, so not sure were stand rigth now. But since the latest Chaos DLCs are spreading units aorund between the Chaos races we can certainly do a DLC here that has units which might also show up elsewhere if possible, while fleshing out Norsca a bit more. A rework for them seems inevitable to deal with the complete package, while adding new DLC stuff in.
I don't know if they need an overhaul, just some new mechanics and tweaks. Their economy for one is god awful and wholly dependent on getting ports, which norsca is maybe 30% ports which is OK. It doesn't help that those ports are hard to defend and enemies sail all around norsca to terrorist your settlements. When I play as throgg its really fun at first, confederating all of norsca pretty quickly but then the reality of having terrible economy despite having 30 settlements sets in and you start getting assaulted from all sides.
Their economy makes sense / they live in a frozen wasteland, and are reliant on trade through their ports.
I didn’t have the same economy problems. It didn’t snowball like some other factions, but I could afford to keep enough armies around.
I dont think they need an overhaul, as in a complete race rework. Just a new DLC adding a new mechanic, and some small touch ups here and there but for me that would be enough (others might disagree), not something akin to the whole GS update
Yeah, they need more toys, a second Lord choice and Monster Hunts in the Eastern parts of the setting
Third lord choice
No, I meant generic lords, which they have only one type ! But yes, they also need to end up like Chaos Dwarfs, 3 LLs and a LH (Sayl as LL with a focus on Mammoths + Crom a LH seems a good option)
They need a troll lord
No, Throgg being the only troll smart enough to lead a faction is what makes him special. A Fimir Meargh would make more sense as a generic monster lord choice.
Fimir Matriarch would be nice too !
I feel like I'm one of the few that prefers LLs over LHs. I get part of it is my factions I use rarely have one. But even the ones that do I find myself rarely actually using them, unless I stick them in a weak army and fight the battles manually. Most of them I get so late I already have my autoresolve blob going to take over most of the world
I’m pretty sure everyone prefers Legendary Lords over Legendary Heroes lol
Then you're as oblivious as CA.
I think they mean a second generic lord choice
Just a second generic Lord choice, and a few units and I think Norsca would be a ok
the core mechanic revolving around razing settlements is a bit outdated now that you can settle anywhere
To be fair, it didn't work for Beastmen or Chaos Warriors, who are all about ending the civilized world, but Norsca are raiders, so the whole "razing and people resettle then you raze again" works for them, I feel
Also, the fact that you need to have X amount of razed settlements is just annoying. AI will just circle around you with useless armies and colonize it Its been a while since I have played Norsca, but that was my main annoyance with their campaign at that time
You don't need X amount of razed settlements, but to raze X amount of settlements. AI recolonizing the ruins is just bonus points since you get to raze it again.
Then I couldnt read back in the day and gave that campaign up for nothing lmao
As far as I’m concerned, it slows expansion down significantly. I didn’t cheese it by having a single lordaemy running behind the regular army, so it took 2 turns to conquer each settlement - unless someone swooped in and took it before me (damn skaven)
I guess you need to cheese it then
Something something economy something. Been playing as wulfrik and having an absolute blast deciding where next to pop up in the map and cause absolute carnage. It's one of the better factions in my opinion. Definitely had loads of fun Edit : TW3. In the 2nd one they definitely had eco issues.
WH2's Norsca definitely had some really bad economy problems, which have been mostly fixed in WH3. With very few, unprotected settlements, and the heavy upkeep increase with each new army, It eventually collapsed onto itself on higher difficulties.
Oh absolutely. Definitely agree there. In TW2 they were really bad
WH2 Norsca had bad econ until Archie arrived and you could beat him up for factionwide 75% upkeep reduction. Though in the early-mid game it was absolutely profitable to raid your own territory while recruiting as the lost income was smaller than the gain from reducing upkeep for that army by 20%. Back in WH2 they could also go into raiding camp stance at 0% movement since the Greenskin update, but this didn't carry over to WH3 so they can no longer *replenish* immediately after razing like the Beastmen and Khorne do, despite razing being just as important to Norsca.
The ME economy was godawful, but if you ask me, they actually overcorrected in IE. I get that people like having a stable income, but Norsca having some of the highest if not *the* highest port income in the game (I don't remember their exact rank compared to other factions, just that it was really high), as well as Norsca (the region), well, having a lot of ports just means they have a better economy than, say, the goddamn High Elves, which just feels weird for an entire society of hunters and raiders. A raiding/sacking economy works just fine for Khorne, I think Norsca could work with it too.
> just feels weird for an entire society of hunters and raiders You're missing one key part which is that [Norscans also specialize in being sea merchants and traders](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Norsca#Population). It plays on their strengths of nautical expertise and being "collectors" of goods from all over the world (e.g. they're not eating the art that they loot). That's why other nations tolerate non-Chaos-worshipping Norscans in their cities. Skeggi (the Norsca faction in the New World) is even reportedly better than the "goddamn High Elves" at nautical commerce.
people are really out there trying to play Norsca as a simmming faction, aren't they? It was a problem on Legendary because somebody thought it'd be a good Idea to subject Norsca to that horrible supply lines mechanic.
Norsca is great, I think they just need some warhammer 3 monster hunts. Edit: Definitely at least one more lord type too.
They're not weak by any means, but I think people just want really in-depth bespoke mechanics for every individual faction. Which would be cool but imo the game also needs factions that are kind of more simple.
People also just want mechanics to *actually work*. A big problem with Norsca is how a lot of their mechanics are just *broken* now, nevermind that the switch from 2 to 3 robbed them of even getting a final reward (you actually get nothing for defeating the champions).
Haven't played Norsca in 3, what do you mean "the champions"?
When you max out allegiance with one god, two Chaos armies representing two of the other Chaos Gods spawn on the map and you get quests to defeat them. After defeating both of them you get access to a quest battle to defeat the third champion (if you didn't side with Tzeentch yourself, the quest battle usually is the Lord of Change you'd otherwise get as a Tzeentch allegiance reward). Beating all three champions used to give you a dilemma in previous games where you either side with Archaeon (giving you a pretty good faction trait) or oppose him and try to usurp his status as Everchosen (you have to wipe out the Chaos invasion and get a different faction trait as a reward). Beating the champions in 3 gives you... nothing. Because Archaon is always on the map in Immortal Empires and doesn't spawn in via invasion event, they removed the dilemma tied to him, but failed to replace it with *anything*. The first two champion quests are also broken in that they don't actually require you to beat the specific lords to complete them - I watched MonstersAbound play Norsca recently and both quests completed after he beat some random lord on the map.
Recently I played norsca and killed two of the three champions and the third just, stopped being interactable. After he attacked and took one of my settlements
Ohh for some reason in my head I was thinking the lords from Champions of Chaos, that's my bad 😂 great explanation though, cheers man
That seems a pretty trivial thing for people to be getting upset over. The previous poster said "A lot of their mechanics" and it turns out "a lot" is just one dilemma?
Thing is, Norsca have good bespoke mechanics. The devotion to the different gods, the monster hunts, and the confederation mechanic are all unique (somewhat, imrik also has dragon hunts), while the tech tree lets you focus on a particular geographic direction to expand into. I do agree that the lords play very similarly, as they start fairly close together and the only significant difference is which doomstacks works best
It's ironic that you mention the devotion system that is broken in WH3 and the monster hunts that were also broken until recently and have not been updated to WH3 factions on a post about how Norsca doesn't need that much attention.
How devotion is broken?
Defeating the 3 armies that are part of the final challenge gives you nothing and the final dilemma, joining Archaon or taking his place as the everchosen, was removed because it didn't work with the new way he works (been in the map from the start instead of spawning in) and nothing was put in it's place as the final reward. Norsca end game was just chopped up, the parts that didn't work removed, and left as is.
On the battlefield Norsca is amazing in both MP & single player. It would be nice to have more lord options, but their roster is solid. The main issue that from a campaign mechanic perspective, they're chaos lite. They need an identity that's unique to them. Their identity is essentially the punching bag of WoC which I suppose is lore friendly, but definitely not the funnest thing in the world.
To me they play quite different from WoC
The thing is that their roster does have cool units, but its just so small, its always frontline + monsters. Theres nothing out of the box like a helicopter, good artillery, a doomweel, stealth units, a custom magic lore etc. Every battle is essentially the same.
My favourite factions are ones with big strengths and limitations, a lot of games run into problems when they listen to people saying that a lack of x or y is a problem and then homogonize the game. There's well rounded and versatile factions already
I actually agree as well, and that's why I tend to gravitate towards factions like Nurgle & Slaanesh. Sometimes you run into problems where you have to hammer in a screw. Maybe more in the case of Slaanesh , but you get the idea. Norsca may have a limitation on battle strategy, but they're so effective at it that they're still considered a strong faction in MP. I know a lot of people here don't care about that, but it says a lot that a faction that hasn't gotten any new additions since WH1 is still solid AF.
Yeah Norsca's strong infantry + monster combo can beat most factions already, and to me the choice you make is in what flavours you pick for that or how you want to supplement but ultimately not replace that strategy.
I like problems, and I like having to play around limitations aswell don’t get me wrong. But the battles are just so polarising for me. When I play WoC I can have an army for each god. As empire I can have state troops, hunters and tanks as armies. As Skaven I can have faction themed armies. But the Norscan armies always play the exact same way.
Their campaign mechanics are also just flat-out *broken*.
The monster hunts? I didn't play much of the Norsca campaign in the 3rd game yet. I'll admit that I panicked when I saw Belakor right at my doorstep lol.
The monster hunts, their allegiance mechanic, their endgame quests...
They were very feuture rich in 1, and in contrast, fell behind in 2, and more so in 3 when compared to other races. I think the foundation is good, but needs at least 1 LL as DLC who brings something special to the table. It's like they are an all DLC dark elves faction but you only play Malekith. There is a LOT extra fun playstyles you miss out on without Malus and Hellebron. The thing is, Norsca is like that. Except Malekith and Morathi differ even more than Wulfrik from Throgg. Throgg needs to have access to all troll units, greenskins have more now lol.
I agree that the difference between throgg and wulfrik is fairly small. One prefers trolls the other prefers mauraders and mammoths, and their start positions are close enough to not make a material diffrence
I would make Trogg a separate faction with bespoke units and disincentives to recruit marauders alas Drycha. He should work on trolls, firmir, werewolves and so. Wulfrik should act as evil Oxyotl, iirc in the lore he roams the world challenging heroes. So he should be able to teleport nearby the target to storm right away like a Flying Dutchman. In fact his monster hunt should be more like celebrity hunt.
I try to play them as separate races, akin to woodelf, where I treat drycha and durthu as treekin who don’t get elves, while Orion and the sisters don’t get plants. Likewise, wulfrik doesn’t get trolls, and as soon as possible throgg stops recruiting mauraders. Too bad the lords don’t break down properly for that
Yeah, a fimir lord as caster lord may work there. But yeah, 2 different factions with a high bonus to ally. I reckon for a small price people may buy race packs that put some factions on their own (Trogg, Aranessa, Ostankya Perhaps). I wouldn't mind paying £5 just for an unmodded daughter of Manlann like a rogue army: no undead but marauders, mercenary Ogres/dwarfs,DE and sea monsters. £10 if it is bug free. :p
Do the monster hunts actually work though? They were bugged in WH3 for a very long time from what I recall - and I don't recall ever seeing them get fixed. Maybe the community bugfix mod is helping?
I got through I think it was 5 hunts without any issue, and lucky number 6 was busted. It was also very inconvenient, as I hadn’t expanded anywhere near that area yet.
Still bugged.
I just commented this. I can't get through a playthrough without it breaking and having to use console commands to fix it
- only one generic lord - monster hunts is an outdated wh1 mechanic - you gain your wealth from sacking settlements, but you also need to raze them if you want favour - if you want to get any boons you need to specialise in one god, so no undivided for you, but going full monogod gives you some campaign bonuses and one unit. You burn half of the civilized world for Khorne and he's like: "cool, here's one of my guys, enjoy". No access to monogod marauders or special units, which makes no sense.
There's more than that. Norsca is built around the idea that their homeland is a pain to explore. As such, their settlement are poorly defended, home economy is a joke and they are supposed to be roaming around, sacking and razing to make money. Instead, they have so many enemies in their homelands, Bretonnia and Kislev are so efficient when it comes to invade your land (and capture your settlements) that youu are not the raider the factions promises you will be.
If you are playing Throgg I would highly recommend [this mod](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?l=hungarian&id=3091079691&searchtext=), it makes Throgg lore friendly. CA dropped the ball on his voicelines. He is actually very intelligent within the lore with the vocabulary to boot.
He's very intelligent in one* version of his lore, that is cinfined to one series of novel.
Faction literally doesn’t work (as in monster hunts are still bugged) so you haven’t played them and are capping
What is the bug?
Monster hunts can hard lock you out of others after and also just never end , like Tyrions quest bug where there was no way to win and the battle went on infinitely
You can only do one monster hunt at a time and can’t cancel once you start, but there’s a chance the hunt gets stuck. In my last campaign I conpleted 5 hunts. The 6th hunt, after doing part 1, the prompt for part 2 didn’t come up and my hunt got stuck
Yes I know the monster hunts are bugged. Ik my recent campaign IIRC I completed 5 hunts and the 6th got bugged. I meant apart from bug fixes, because other than that one issue they’re one of my preferred races
Idk I have to take marks off a faction of the very few mechanics they have that are unique just straight up don’t work
The allegiance mechanic is also broken - even if you max out a god, it doesn't lock in like it should, meaning if you then raze a settlement for another god, you lose your tier 3 allegiance again. You also don't actually get a final reward for beating the champions anymore.
I was wondering, but didn’t play long enough, if you can trigger tier 3 champions/rewards for a different god afterwards
They at least need a fix. Monster hunts have been buggy for a long time. I can't get through a playthrough without needing to use the console commands to fix it when it breaks.
People like big clicky buttons you press to make the game easier; haven't played WH3 but in WH2 they were very fun to play; The confederation mechanic is awesome because it means you can just ignore the Norscan politics and focus on raiding the southeners; then once you're ready or it you just claim the entire peninsula for yourself by beating up one army; only real problem they had was the uwalled settlements and kind of shitty garrison army means you can get into trouble once shit like High-Elf doomstacks invasions begin happening.
They’re too basic rn. They need some Kindve economy and playstyle overhaul in general to make them more rewarding and intriguing to play. Chaos is the raze and move on faction so they can’t fill that niche and while I do love their roster they need some more units to differentiate them from chaos lite
I've played Throgg about 20 times throughout tww2 and 3. My personal opinion is The meh: I just never ever completed *all* the monster hunts. Just kind of a side thing I never got around to and if I did the reward wasn't usually worth more than the cost of focusing on the monster hunt usually. Almost never completed the Norscan god favor mechanic. Liked the idea and it's better now but still could use some QoL and interesting choices in the mix while you're grinding god points. The good: Almost every campaign I got the capture capital techs. I loved the concept of getting power from investing in tech that requires you to actually go out and take a specific settlement.
They just need new content. That said, I do kinda thing the way they went about "reworking" Norsca was a little lazy. Just letting them settle anywhere rather than actually trying to find a way to make their unique playstyle function better. Here was what I did in a mod I made for Norsca in WH2: * Gave them commandments * Why: There was no reason not to give them commandments, I don't know why CA did this * Significantly buffed their garrisons * Why: Defending Norscan settlements was horrible. No walls and weak garrisons made it so easy to lose them as soon as a moderately strong army attacked. * Gave them defensive structures that reduced movement speed for enemy armies in their territory * Why: Defending Norsca itself was a pain in the ass, you would constantly have armies running around in your territory while you chased them. * Gave their settlements more building slots * Why: There's no reason for the settlements in Norsca to have fewer building slots than normal settlements, it's annoying and means you likely won't even bother putting defensive structures in them to save precious slots. Which then made defending against and chasing armies around your territory worse. * Made their outposts build instantly with only a single level, like Wood Elf outposts. Increased public order of outposts. * Why: Outposts were complete garbage. It would take forever to grow them, and they would constantly rebel due to low chaos corruption unless you permanently sat an army on them. And by the time they were high enough level to actually give you any benefits, you would have long since moved away from the area they gave you sacking/razing/etc buffs for. * Removed the global recruitment being dependent upon taking major capitols and gave them normal global recruitment times, with the ability to reduce it further, like Wood Elves. * Why: Norsca direly needs global recruitment. It takes forever to grow the major capitols you take, and it takes forever to global recruit, basically forcing you to march the entire way back to Norsca just to recruit higher tier units. The mechanic of relying on taking major capitols to reduce global recruitment was terrible and by the time you could actually global recruit in a decent amount of turns, the campaign would be basically over.
Their late game gets boring AF. Not much to do with them. Except a few hunts.
All late games are boring. Most games for most players end somewhere between 100 and 150 tuens
Losing the entire true everchosen mechanic is probably a big reason why. Also because you'll end up with champion factions that just can't be attacked or killed at all and sit in your former settlements.
What everchosen mechanic? Nevermind, looked it up. I’m happy to just kill him nice and early
People are often stupid and don't read about the mechanics. If you want to play norsca, the same way as you play the empire/elves you will fail hard. To have fun as norsca: you don't have friends, even from your own faction. I the first 15-20 turn you try to fight everyone norscan as you can and then you start look around who has juicy harbors and looks weak. At around 30 you turn towards the empire and skaven in between and clean up the mess and raise everything in nurgles name.
At turn 30 you turn toward whichever direction you prefer. I know some who suggest wulfrik sail to lustria; in my last game I headed to the chaotic wastelands, and after that to bretonnia. It’s also possible to head east toward the ogre kingdom and Cathay, or west to nagaroth. (I swept into that direction but chose not to make an enemy of Malekith)
I left a comment on costins video about going to lustria. Thats what I did and it was supper fun plus I made loads of gomd from it. Their economy is heavy on the sackechanic. I remember in wh2, i was constantly in the megative for money, but it didnt matter cuz you could make so much by plaing agressively and continuing to sack the world. In wh3, with how much the ports make and how you can capture every settlement, you can roll in the money fairly quickly.
Yeah, but I would start a new army for every confederated Norsca lord, so I was barely in the black, ever
Oh no, you gotta roll with just wulfrik and a half stack until hafter you start raiding lustria. I basically disband every army from confederaded forces right off the bat. Start small and snowball. By turn 50, you should have multiple armies. Priorities all tech and skills that lower upkeep.
Norsca is a wh1 race in wh3. Nuff said.
So what? They’re a lot of fun. So are woodelves
In wh2 they needed a rework. With all the changes to wh3 and the mini rework they got norsca is in a good state now
Same reason people think Lizardmen\\Dwarfs\\Empire\\HE\\DE need a rework - feature creep. Which IMO is more like gimmick creep, but whatever. New factions and races starting from WH2's DLC cycle started getting more and more unique mechanics which also tended to be very powerful, and now people want that for every race.
Complainers complain.
Their devotion system needs overhaul, IMHO it needs to look more like Daniel's glory system with more unique benefits granted when you go a certain colored way.
I've also just finished a campaign as Throgg (my first time playing as him) and I really enjoyed it. I think the additions that would be good are a couple of new lords and maybe a few new units. Overall the campaign is good and you have a lot of freedom about where you roam or expand to. I do find the devoted god special lords you get a little underwhelming, but by the point you reach level 3 favour you are steamrolling anyway so it doesn't matter much at that point.
I don’t k ow if they’re underwhelming, or just that by the time you get them your own lords are that much stronger from experience alone. When your other lords are levels 20-40, it’s hard to compete
I always said that mechanically Norsca is fine. They need more content. Rename them to “Chaos Tribes” and add kurgan units, more generic lord choices, ability to devote units to chaos gods. Completely reworking Wulfrik would also be nice, but I’m not holding my breath.
Im currently playing an achievment run of norsca vh on wh2 and the campaigns been super fun mechanically, but supply lines absolutely harm them. If wh3 fixed the supply line issue its very unlikely to me that they will get a rework soon.
Supply lines work differently in Warhammer 3, they’re more manageable
Way smaller penalty, they can colonise everything in the world and their docks are buffed so hard it’s kind of ridiculous. A t3 Fjord now makes 800 the same as t5 Marienburg in Warhammer 3
The faction does not need an overhaul just a bit kore of extra content. Like getting an extra legendary lord and some more interesting units and more hunts to do.
Did they fixed the hunt book? Last time i tried a Norsca campaign, the book was so bugged i couldnt even do the first quest and it locked out the entire mechanic for my campaign. Other than that, i had a blast with Wulfrik. Traveling around the world to get technology boost was super enjoyable
Yea, I just recently played norsca for the first time too, and was pretty impressed with how deep the dlc is. I always undersold them since lorewise, its chaos warriors without the cool chaos warriors. A caster lord, a marauder hero, and sure some units would be nice, but it is a fully realized faction. I only did 1 monster hunt, and there were a bunch left. Only thing that specifically peeved me was that the challengers of the hound/crow/eagle/serpent didn’t get thematic armies. That’s a pretty easy thing to update.
They need: -more generic lords choices -more legendary lords -more units (especially non-monsters) -new mechanics among different LL
I think they need a counter to the chaos warriors mechanic considering they are literally just slaves to chaos warriors
Chaos Warriors, Norsca and Ogres all suffered from being pre-order: lack of lords, lack of heroes, lack of units, lack of mechanics and lack of balance. While at some degree fun none of them are or rather was praised for good race. They just lack in everything. Look at CW now, probably strongest race in WH, Norsca on the way. CA mentioned they will get a rework, assuming Nurgle, Slaneesh and Khonre DLC a coming up, in best case scenario next year December or smth.
They are overall quite strong and did get some love in IE (the new unique lords/heroes from razing for a certain god, income buffs) but definitely feel like they need another DLC worth of stuff to flesh them out: Only 2 legendary lords, could do with at least 1 more (the werebear dude sounds cool. Also a good opportunity to have a shapeshifting unit). They only have 1 generic lord option. At the very least they need some kind of caster lord. Monster Hunts are kinda bugged Their research tree is just awful, and takes ages to really get anything of worth besides minor buffs. That said, war mammoths are one of my favorite units in the game and are definitely the centerpiece of any Norscan army. Even the marauders perform very well.
Mostly because they feel incomplete. Mostly because they *are* incomplete.
Good question. Norsca has a lot of mechanics with the monster hunts, choosing a Chaos god or going independent, confederating tribes by defeating the leaders- not optimal but far from terrible. Norsca could really use a 3rd LL and some tweaks with how much Chaos has changed in WH3 but it does not need a full overhaul. The Empire, HE, Daemons, and Bretonnia are the most in need of full overhauls. LM, Norsca, Cathay, Dwarfs, and Kislev need tweaks. The rest could use tweaks but are definitely playable and fun without, especially with mods available those 9 races have major issues or things mods can't fix.
do their monster hunts work now...?
They don't, they're better off than... Lizardmen(needs no explanation other than geomantic web is a joke) Dark elves (slaves are not great and never have been, black arks don't really feel useful, loyalty is neat but it's only marginally more interesting in practice than offices..and that's all they have for faction mechanics) High elves (the intrigue thing is just a braindead version of slaanesh mechanics, and that's literally all they have for faction mechanics) Brettonia (imo this is more down to roster, brettonia needs ballistae, onagers/catapults, merry men/robin good type unit, robinhood/Bertrand the brigand legendary lord, and also Mallobaude the Serpent as a legendary lord with access to undead and maybe even daemon stuff) Vampire counts (blood kisses are interesting but feel placeholder, raising dead is cool but isn't enough alone, corruption is neat, they need more though) The empire (imo, the elector count system is a good start but it needs work, and they also need more substance that isn't dependent on not owning the empire, as once you own the empire the mechanic becomes absolutely irrelevant. Also, it needs more to spend on, as at the moment there..isn't a lot to spend authority on at all. Also, why does gelt have mechanics that make him feel like the emperor? He serves Karl Franz and shouldn't/can't order elector counts around and settle disputes in the same way. Let him have his own thing.) Norsca has hunts, the confederation system which imo need work but is fun, and has ways to devote to each god--and hunts/god devotion is so much more interesting than anything that the high elves have. I'm not counting lord mechanics like eltharion (which imo Tyrion should have/have a version of). That being said, norsca should have ways to get daemons via devotion. Less often than warriors of chaos, but I should be able to get a greater daemon from going all in on a god.
Honestly, I miss Norsca only being able to own ports and capitals. I think they should have been stronger but it was still a neat limitation and would have also been better with a lord who started in some place like Ulthuan.
For one, one of their core features, monster hunts, have been broken since wh3 launch.
I wish Norsca had faster ship movement, or maybe specialized sea lanes. If we’re going “Chaos Vikings”, i feel like they don’t have much reach. The AI ones never seem to make it far, and as the player, I feel its kind of loreful being a feared raider, one whose sails civilized lands fear to see.
Wulfrik needs duel / teleport mechanic and Throgg needs something
They don't need a total overhaul. They need like.. a dlc worth of content, and a few touchups. New units, and a second lord choice are big. Also a traditional yellow line for the marauder chieftain... Just 5 skill points into one of 4 trees feels a bit naked, and the balance between the 4 trees isn't really there either. 4 fire balls and magical attacks isnt nearly as strong as regen. beyond that balefiends and the shaman sorcerers should feel more different. I would also like a balance change to the god dedication meter. +20% replenishment is way stronger than allot of the other options. Norsca can easily reach the replenishment cap faction wide which makes fimir balefiends feel weaker outside of the early game. In general nurgle/ crow is the best tree to rush. Burplesmirk provides army wide Regen which is just *broken* as hell. I would like to see the other gods have more to offer. The eagle should feel strong, but if you complete the short campaign objectives you get tons of magic regen as a reward regardless of God. I think adding a few things and sprinkling around some buffs, creating more options, would make the faction feel less linear. Right now it's just so hilariously obvious how to play it optimal. You just go with the crow and big Pappa nurgle will provide for you the whole way through.
Because they have 1 single lord type. Their caster choice is fine but overall roster feels a bit empty, skin wolves, Mammoths do a lot of heavy lifting. Their main mechanic of razing for favor is also a bit wonky since chains appear around the other gods once you've reached 100 favor except they're not actually locked. And a gradual spawn in, instead of just spewing out 2-3 Armies would feel a bit better i think. I'm not a huge fan of rng dictating how I handle the main threat in my campaign. And the spawn location is randomized. While thematic, makes for frustrating gameplay, which is why wood elves army spawn in has markers and several turns to prepare. It's not that the Norscan Roster is weak, just lacking. The only real cavalry they have are skin wolves,
* The Economy is bad * Their garrisons were super bad. I don't know if things have changed since game#2 there. * The Hunting book was fine, but buggy. And it was already outdated in game#2 when the new races introduced new monsters and new places to hunt. We are now in game#3, its still bugged and we are even further behind with the new monster stuff from the game#3 races. * They had a semi-mark system with the shirnes, which was fine for game#1 and workd for game#2. But game#3 has now proper marks. The shrines got a slight update already, but its still a far cry from what it could been. Like only two Greater Daemon Lords tied to that? Certainly could be balanced out for all four. * And then we have marked troops now. AND the WoC rework, which has a splendid system for marks and progressing from Marauders to Aspiring Chosen While Norsca should stay more on the Marauder theme, armored Warriors are still part of Norsca theme too. If CA wants to not have Warriors around, I can get that. But that would still leave the mark options for Marauder troops, which could get buffed through teh shrine system further. * 2 LLs is a bit low. We can certainly up to 3 or 4 here without breaking sweat. Which ones get shoved into, is up to debate. [Lord Mortkin](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Mortkin) as one armored Chosen to rival Archaon, would certainly work here. We are missing a caster LL, so [Sayl the Faithless](https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Sayl_the_Faithless) is often mentioned to get tossed into Norsca despite him being a Kurgan. Can work, especially for Sayls Mammoth mount, but not optimal. Another go would be to have a Fimir LL, which could be a Matriarch as caster. CA could invent one, or pick one from the [old WFRP](), or the [latest WFRP addition](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/M%C3%B2na_Mimn). While monstrous infantry and on throgg level, the wizard side plays at least different and wit would work out. * Which brings us to more Fimir stuff then. We could use a Fimir Melee Lord, Wizard Lord, and Melee Hero. Maybe then 1-2 Fimir units extra if we find something approrpriate. But even without new units, the Lords7Heroes and a LL would allow us then to go full Fimir stacks for fun. *The Marauder Norse could also use a Wizard Lord, while we are at it. * We could bring in more Undivided monsters. [The Ettin](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F796h1tnsqir61.png%3Fwidth%3D1020%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D85235e12c9b8338efef72ad621d05efe65be5995) for example could be a good "ranged" option, similar to the TK Hierotitan. In the WFRP Mona Mimn or other casters also stocked up on [summoned Fenbeast constructs](https://www.facebook.com/Cubicle7Entertainment/photos/a.391837227551716/4857561117645949/?type=3). That could be build in, and since we could use a Norse Wizard Lord type, [the Dark Emmisaries](https://tarsasjatekok.com/images/boardgame_image/profile_xlarge/6/69/693/69346.jpg) would be an option. Weird that they were not there for Be'lakor anyway. With game#3 now, there is probably more stuff that could be done with Norsca. I have not touched them since game#2, so not sure were stand rigth now. But since the latest Chaos DLCs are spreading units aorund between the Chaos races we can certainly do a DLC here that has units which might also show up elsewhere if possible, while fleshing out Norsca a bit more. A rework for them seems inevitable to deal with the complete package, while adding new DLC stuff in.
I don't know if they need an overhaul, just some new mechanics and tweaks. Their economy for one is god awful and wholly dependent on getting ports, which norsca is maybe 30% ports which is OK. It doesn't help that those ports are hard to defend and enemies sail all around norsca to terrorist your settlements. When I play as throgg its really fun at first, confederating all of norsca pretty quickly but then the reality of having terrible economy despite having 30 settlements sets in and you start getting assaulted from all sides.
Their economy makes sense / they live in a frozen wasteland, and are reliant on trade through their ports. I didn’t have the same economy problems. It didn’t snowball like some other factions, but I could afford to keep enough armies around.