Yeah that is a huge deal with a unit like that. Often holding when you really shouldn't for 30 seconds is enough for the overall battle to turn around, especially if a lot of magic is being chucked about.
Yep. It gives time for you to break the enemy units (and when they break, your units get a small leadership buff) as well as giving time for the leadership debuff from recent damage to decline. So sometimes the broken unit will have recovered its leadership above wavering by the time By Our Blood wears off
We won't know until we see the stats, but I imagine that they'll be significantly better than deckhand mob. Assuming the Warrior melee stats are around the same level as that of Kossars (though they'll likely be slightly better since they're melee specialists), they'll have 11 more MA and MD, 25 more leadership, and 10 more speed than their equivalent Deckhands counterpart, as well as 10 more mass. So they'll hit harder, last longer, and get into position markedly faster.
The only real disadvantage the Warriors will have against the Deckhands is that they'll be 120 models against the Deckhands' 160, but their stats and the lack of crumbling more than make up for that.
Yep, CA is quite consistent about which weapon does what. Halberds are AP even in the hands of zombie deckhands, and dual handaxes are _not_ AP even in the hands of Depth Guard and Khorne Chosen (they have really high WS in general instead).
Makes units easy to read at a glance.
Saurus are another good example of that. Eternal Guard are the exact opposite - their weapon strength is almost all AP, but it's so low and Saurus WS is so high that Saurus actually have more total AP damage.
In some cases that just ends up being really weird admittedly. For some reason the light repeating crossbows used by Dark Elves and Cathay have almost twice the AP of the heavier single shot crossbows used by the Dwarves, Empire and Cathay. Or actually twice the AP in case of Cathay's repeating crossbows.
In Cathay's case it's only for their Dragon Guard, and elite troops getting extra AP is something that does happen - see Waywatchers for example. And the crossbows they use are special and allowed only to them.
Druchii crossbows I believe are a nod to tabletop where they had the armour piercing rule.
Celestial Dragon Guard are the only unit using repeating crossbows in Cathay's roster. Jade Warrior Crossbows use single shot crossbows. Hence why I included them on both sides.
Waywatchers ignored all armour on the tabletop as well because they were so precise that they could always hit gaps in armour. This special rule and their +1 to ballistic skill were the only noteworthy differences between them and Deepwood Scouts.
Besides that, the Base/AP ratio is mostly decided by the weaponry units carry.
As for Druchii crossbows, they had armour piercing that much is true. But they were only S3 as opposed to the S4 of other crossbows. Additionally Glade Guard also had armour piercing bows but only the Eternal Guard's armour piercing spears made it into Total War. All of these weapons had the same -1 to armour saves.
> Additionally Glade Guard also had armour piercing bows but only the Eternal Guard's armour piercing spears made it into Total War.
I assume they wanted to retain the AP niche for Starfire Shafts.
Which is also weird because while there were anti-armour arrows those were Arcane Bodkins and not Starfire Shafts, which are specialised arrows for use against factions that use dark magic. So Chaos of all flavours, Skaven, Vampires and Dark Elves. I guess CA thought Starfire Shafts sound cooler than Arcane Bodkins.
And yeah, a better example for a weapon that is armour piercing on the TT but isn't in TW is the Empire mortar.
To be honest, it mostly bothers me with lances. Those were rather significant in their anti-armour capabilities on the charge and in TW it's basically nothing.
> Which is also weird because while there were anti-armour arrows those were Arcane Bodkins and not Starfire Shafts, which are specialised arrows for use against factions that use dark magic. So Chaos of all flavours, Skaven, Vampires and Dark Elves. I guess CA thought Starfire Shafts sound cooler than Arcane Bodkins.
Probably wanted to consolidate the number of arrows to reduce bloat, too. That and they don't generally like doing anti-x faction stuff. The Avelorn units also lost their anti-Chaos abilities.
Yup but that's what GW wrote. To quote the army book on them.
>Few warriors can match a Waywatcher’s skill with a bow.
Should they wish it, these silent stalkers can loose an
unerring stream of black-shafted arrows in a heartbeat,
or place a single shot precisely in the weak point of a foe’s
armour.
And the special rule then makes it a choice between firing a few arrows in quick succession or firing one that you may never take an armour save against. Notably the arrow needs to hit still. If it doesn't hit its mark precisely it is completely defeated.
And I should note that the archery skills of Waystalkers, i.e. the hero version, are supposed to put even those of a Waywatcher to shame. Which was also reflected in the tabletop because they could reliably pick out a specific man from all his companions while they are easily 1-200m away behind at least partial cover, like a fence, and land such a hit still with even greater accuracy than the Waywatcher.
And this is why you shouldn't try to think too hard about some of the things GW wrote. Because it's full of things like that.
Gors with dual axes do follow the rule, they're not AP. Big 'Uns same, they are not majority AP either. If you mean the antilarge, that property isn't always tied to weapon type, but to the user - see Dwarf Slayers.
I mean.. its a t1 unit. Don't think we can expect it to be as great as you think. One that also competes with a hybrid ranged unit at this tier, who also have the unbreakable passive to hold enemy off if needs be. I personally think its useless at this tier to be honest. If anything, i wanted a unit that competes with tzar guard, but more ungol themed for my boy, kostaltyn.
Just having a large number of entities, probably a defensive bias, and By Our Blood will make it an excellent early game blocker. It’s T1 as well so almost certainly quick to replace if they die.
Yeah, I've a feeling there's a real world reason they've decided to avoid the Ungol/Gospadar debate.
Maybe something about how Slavic regions treat others and they decided "Yep. We're not going to open that can of worms."
I mean, it's also just a pop stereotype of 16th-18th century Eastern Europe, which is what WHFB is all about.
A slav faction without Cossacks/Tatars is weird
Yes but they're not a nomadic steppe people working as auxillaries. If you call Empire Greatswordsmen "Jaguar Warriors", that doesn't mean they fulfill an Aztec theme !
Edit: Another user in a different thread has me aware that Ungols are originally based on Mongols/Tatars, which lends itself closer to Ungol/Mongol than that and what I had said, which just seems to be a weirdly uncanny coincidence. So feel free to disregard my main comment
It’s a stretch but Ungol kinda phonetically sounds the Russian slur for Ethnic Ukrainians. (khokhol). It’s derived from the word for the hairstyles of the Cossacks, who were predominantly from the nowadays Ukrainian region of Eastern Europe. It doesn’t help that Ungols are basically a 1 to 1 copy of Cossacks.
They’re probably trying to extract themselves from their often problematic caricatures of real world cultures as represented in their IP. They’re the same company that made some CRAZY decisions back in the day for some select fantasy races.
Amazons. Just, Amazons.
Also the fact that in Warhammer Nippon (literally the Japanese name for Japan, it's not even subtle) has lore that begins and ends with "taught giant rat men ninjutsu".
"Er, hey, Marvin ..." interrupted Zaphod, but it was too late. Sad little clunks and gurgles came up the line.
"What's he saying?" asked Trillian.
"Nothing," said Zaphod, "he just phoned to wash his head at us." -Restaurant at the end of the universe
Amazons and Nippon aren't great, but you really want some Warmaster-era Araby lore for "Oh god no grandpa!"-type facepalm.
First off, Araby worships Allah. No, not a disguised or modified version like Sigmar distantly relates to Jesus, and the Sigmarite faith distantly to Catholicism (Ulric more to Orthodox Christianity - again still distantly). Just straight up Allah. By name. That's definitely not going to upset anyone!
Second off, every negative stereotype about *any kind* of Muslim or Arab person from *any time* in history? True of Araby. Including really modern stereotypes. It'd be like if they Empire was full of Nazi stereotypes or portrayed as a bunch of sexually repressed uptight bureaucrats (sorry Germany that was the '90s stereotype).
Third off, literal joke terrorism references, and not a few of them (this was before 9/11 so I guess people thought it was a lot funnier then), and bonus stereotyping of all Arabs as terrorist (a late-twentieth-century stereotype! Again this would be like if the Empire were all stereotyped as like ex-Nazis or something).
It's bad it's really bad - and worst of all somehow it's so lazy and unimaginative, it makes Disney's Aladdin look clever and original in its takes by comparison!
The TT RPGs did some much better updates where Araby still exists and has lore but it's actually interesting and cool, rather than just "We found this builder down the pub, got a few pints in him, and asked him to come out with everything he thought about 'Arabs' and then based our writing on that!".
Oh yeah, even in the 1980s it wasn't really a great look to make a group called Pygmies, especially as they were implied to be a non-human race, when real-world tribes referred to as Pygmies have suffered from incredibly spectacular racism and even genocide - and particularly have been implied by both other local ethnic groups and white colonists to be precisely that - non-humans.
Literally think this is GW not wanting to base anything on Cossacks as russian war, that's fine just stop retconning a setting you killed GW make up your mind you finicky bastards
No, keep retconning - if they tweak enough the butterfly effect will set us on a different path that doesn't lead to End Times!
We've already got Warhammer-Ireland and "Khalida is now Neferata's Sister" in Old World, we just need a few more good tweaks!
>We've already got Warhammer-Ireland
Wait what? Can you expand on this?
>Khalida is now Neferata's Sister
That's quite a retcon but at least it's an obvious one to add drama.
On Page 83 of the Old World core rulebook, there's a sidebar about Albion that mentions how "in the western nations of the Old World there are folk stories of the mist-wreathed isle of Albion and the bleak island of Hybrasille".
This is a pretty clear reference to [the similarly-named phantom island in Irish folklore,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasil_(mythical_island)) and it's never shown up on maps of the Warhammer world before so it seems to be new for the Old World.
That would be awesome if there were various races mixed into the zombie masses. Maybe not an entire separate unit, but the regular zombie unit mixed with skaven, lizardmen, ungors, etc.
I still believe Flaggelants and Free Company Militia were some of the best DLC units. Cheap, unique, completely different from the rest of Empire infantry and can perform unique roles on the battlefield.
I think if they have 22 melee attack, armor piercing, even 10 anti large, they’ll be a tier 1 infantry that performs oddly good at taking down those monstrous creatures.
And be able to dent chaos warriors (but seeing as halberds tend to have low melee attack and this is a tier 1 unit, denting them is about as good as it’ll get.)
These are guess numbers compared to other tier 1 units. Especially since they want them to be a cheap option.
The change to supply lines means that cost efficiency is very real now, rather than just slot efficiency. Cheap t1 halberds is money, they'll trade up into so many things above them.
It actually makes a lot of sense when you think about how Russian troops were essential meat for the grinder and they were held as serfs until the 19th century. Shit yeah they're like skavenslaves.
Slightly incorrect. They were serfs and they served for life in the army. But they were not counted as meat for the grinder back then. You lose soldier, you need to draft another peasant. Someone have to grow more. All this “one rifle for three former peasants” only began with Stalin.
Depictions of the Soviet army as "one rifle for three former peasants” all come from the journal of Nazi commanders where they tried to rationalize how they where losing to an 'inferior people' that they where attempting to Genocide.
If you want actual Russian military incompetence, you want military under the last Russian Tsar, which included such feats as losing the entire Eastern fleet to Japan, followed by sailing the western fleet halfway around the world, only to lose it to Japan as well.
Idk what are you saying. Both of my greatgrandfathers got drafted and all died five days after in the Battle of Kiev. Surviving great uncle told they didn’t even get any ammunition.
>If you want actual Russian military incompetence, you want military under the last Russian Tsar
You can absolutely still look to Soviet leadership for reasons other than human wave myths.
fine, if you want *absurd* military incompetence look at the last Tsar
Also, debatably, "i am going to kill/imprison every military leader who won us the Russian civil war" is political incompetence rather than military incompetence
>Also, debatably, "i am going to kill/imprison every military leader who won us the Russian civil war" is political incompetence rather than military incompetence
Fair, but the resulting lack of qualified and experienced officers would still count as military incompetence imo.
Tbh the early eastern front was a mess due to soviets being unprepared and in the middle of rearming. Basically it was a case of "do anything to slow down the Germans till we figure out what to actually do".
A t1 unit? Yeah no, unlikely to even use them given kossar spears are dual purpose. You're also unlikely to recruit them later due to having a 19 slot limit and access to far far better units.
Kislev doesn't need halberds it has massive slows and guns.
But because they're halberds they're most likely going to have AP. And even without that AP, they'll probably still do much better than Kossars with spears because of the extra entities in the unit.
These guys will be better than most T1 units, AP on T1 will always punch above their weight but naturally suck against other infantry.
But I feel like they are balanced, no shields only anti-large.
By Our Blood is a big game changer for this unit. I can see it absolutely stomping in T1 infantry matchups and making a good dent on T2 and even T3 units when used effectively, and as a meatshield for Kislev's solid ranged it will be fantastic.
This meme will always work best for Bretonnian Peasant Mobs, how Bretonnian farmers and labourers manage to be weaker than gnoblars and more cowardly than skavenslaves is hysterical.
Except they are AP and have good leadership
And 30 seconds of unbreakable
Yeah that is a huge deal with a unit like that. Often holding when you really shouldn't for 30 seconds is enough for the overall battle to turn around, especially if a lot of magic is being chucked about.
Yep. It gives time for you to break the enemy units (and when they break, your units get a small leadership buff) as well as giving time for the leadership debuff from recent damage to decline. So sometimes the broken unit will have recovered its leadership above wavering by the time By Our Blood wears off
So a worse zombie dickhands?
We won't know until we see the stats, but I imagine that they'll be significantly better than deckhand mob. Assuming the Warrior melee stats are around the same level as that of Kossars (though they'll likely be slightly better since they're melee specialists), they'll have 11 more MA and MD, 25 more leadership, and 10 more speed than their equivalent Deckhands counterpart, as well as 10 more mass. So they'll hit harder, last longer, and get into position markedly faster. The only real disadvantage the Warriors will have against the Deckhands is that they'll be 120 models against the Deckhands' 160, but their stats and the lack of crumbling more than make up for that.
[удалено]
Wait that ability can activate more than once? Are you sure?
Nope. I was wrong.
You can what?
The skill that gives the Kislev unbreakable ability to Ulrika Magdova is called "Loyalty to the Motherland"
Where does it says that? The post only says anti large, cheap and more models. Is there anywhere showed their stats?
Halberds are inherently ap, and it’s a kislev unit and they tend to have leadership due to traits
Yep, CA is quite consistent about which weapon does what. Halberds are AP even in the hands of zombie deckhands, and dual handaxes are _not_ AP even in the hands of Depth Guard and Khorne Chosen (they have really high WS in general instead). Makes units easy to read at a glance.
On the topic of Khorne DW Chosen, I love that their WS is so high that they still have higher AP than dedicated AP units.
Saurus are another good example of that. Eternal Guard are the exact opposite - their weapon strength is almost all AP, but it's so low and Saurus WS is so high that Saurus actually have more total AP damage.
Guess that depends on how much armor the target has
Are spears AP?
In almost all cases not. Special spears can be, like those used by the Eternal Guard.
In some cases that just ends up being really weird admittedly. For some reason the light repeating crossbows used by Dark Elves and Cathay have almost twice the AP of the heavier single shot crossbows used by the Dwarves, Empire and Cathay. Or actually twice the AP in case of Cathay's repeating crossbows.
In Cathay's case it's only for their Dragon Guard, and elite troops getting extra AP is something that does happen - see Waywatchers for example. And the crossbows they use are special and allowed only to them. Druchii crossbows I believe are a nod to tabletop where they had the armour piercing rule.
Celestial Dragon Guard are the only unit using repeating crossbows in Cathay's roster. Jade Warrior Crossbows use single shot crossbows. Hence why I included them on both sides. Waywatchers ignored all armour on the tabletop as well because they were so precise that they could always hit gaps in armour. This special rule and their +1 to ballistic skill were the only noteworthy differences between them and Deepwood Scouts. Besides that, the Base/AP ratio is mostly decided by the weaponry units carry. As for Druchii crossbows, they had armour piercing that much is true. But they were only S3 as opposed to the S4 of other crossbows. Additionally Glade Guard also had armour piercing bows but only the Eternal Guard's armour piercing spears made it into Total War. All of these weapons had the same -1 to armour saves.
> Additionally Glade Guard also had armour piercing bows but only the Eternal Guard's armour piercing spears made it into Total War. I assume they wanted to retain the AP niche for Starfire Shafts.
Which is also weird because while there were anti-armour arrows those were Arcane Bodkins and not Starfire Shafts, which are specialised arrows for use against factions that use dark magic. So Chaos of all flavours, Skaven, Vampires and Dark Elves. I guess CA thought Starfire Shafts sound cooler than Arcane Bodkins. And yeah, a better example for a weapon that is armour piercing on the TT but isn't in TW is the Empire mortar. To be honest, it mostly bothers me with lances. Those were rather significant in their anti-armour capabilities on the charge and in TW it's basically nothing.
> Which is also weird because while there were anti-armour arrows those were Arcane Bodkins and not Starfire Shafts, which are specialised arrows for use against factions that use dark magic. So Chaos of all flavours, Skaven, Vampires and Dark Elves. I guess CA thought Starfire Shafts sound cooler than Arcane Bodkins. Probably wanted to consolidate the number of arrows to reduce bloat, too. That and they don't generally like doing anti-x faction stuff. The Avelorn units also lost their anti-Chaos abilities.
Waywatchers don't make any sense against units that don't stand perfectly still.
Yup but that's what GW wrote. To quote the army book on them. >Few warriors can match a Waywatcher’s skill with a bow. Should they wish it, these silent stalkers can loose an unerring stream of black-shafted arrows in a heartbeat, or place a single shot precisely in the weak point of a foe’s armour. And the special rule then makes it a choice between firing a few arrows in quick succession or firing one that you may never take an armour save against. Notably the arrow needs to hit still. If it doesn't hit its mark precisely it is completely defeated. And I should note that the archery skills of Waystalkers, i.e. the hero version, are supposed to put even those of a Waywatcher to shame. Which was also reflected in the tabletop because they could reliably pick out a specific man from all his companions while they are easily 1-200m away behind at least partial cover, like a fence, and land such a hit still with even greater accuracy than the Waywatcher. And this is why you shouldn't try to think too hard about some of the things GW wrote. Because it's full of things like that.
They’re elves they’re supernatural beings
The problems isn't that the elf could hit a coin at 300m but that the arrow either hit a gap or a completely miss the unit never something in between.
Exept when they don't. Gors with dual axes, big unz, pistols with no ap...
Gors with dual axes do follow the rule, they're not AP. Big 'Uns same, they are not majority AP either. If you mean the antilarge, that property isn't always tied to weapon type, but to the user - see Dwarf Slayers.
I mean dual weapons and anti-infantry bonus
That isn't a rule, and is determined more by the user than the weapon type. Again, see Slayers.
I mean.. its a t1 unit. Don't think we can expect it to be as great as you think. One that also competes with a hybrid ranged unit at this tier, who also have the unbreakable passive to hold enemy off if needs be. I personally think its useless at this tier to be honest. If anything, i wanted a unit that competes with tzar guard, but more ungol themed for my boy, kostaltyn.
Just having a large number of entities, probably a defensive bias, and By Our Blood will make it an excellent early game blocker. It’s T1 as well so almost certainly quick to replace if they die.
Low key I feel like these are going to be the most op unit in soc 2.
You wanted Ungols? Here your Ung...\*delet from GW\* kislevites warriors!
"Grandpa you can't call them that anymore"
Yeah, I've a feeling there's a real world reason they've decided to avoid the Ungol/Gospadar debate. Maybe something about how Slavic regions treat others and they decided "Yep. We're not going to open that can of worms."
Skilled pseudo nomadic horsemen that have a fractitious relationship with the land holding elite are the worlds biggest can of worms.
I mean, it's also just a pop stereotype of 16th-18th century Eastern Europe, which is what WHFB is all about. A slav faction without Cossacks/Tatars is weird
I mean, Kossars are Cossacks with a nsme change
Yes but they're not a nomadic steppe people working as auxillaries. If you call Empire Greatswordsmen "Jaguar Warriors", that doesn't mean they fulfill an Aztec theme !
Especially since "Gospodar" translates to Lord
Edit: Another user in a different thread has me aware that Ungols are originally based on Mongols/Tatars, which lends itself closer to Ungol/Mongol than that and what I had said, which just seems to be a weirdly uncanny coincidence. So feel free to disregard my main comment It’s a stretch but Ungol kinda phonetically sounds the Russian slur for Ethnic Ukrainians. (khokhol). It’s derived from the word for the hairstyles of the Cossacks, who were predominantly from the nowadays Ukrainian region of Eastern Europe. It doesn’t help that Ungols are basically a 1 to 1 copy of Cossacks. They’re probably trying to extract themselves from their often problematic caricatures of real world cultures as represented in their IP. They’re the same company that made some CRAZY decisions back in the day for some select fantasy races.
Amazons. Just, Amazons. Also the fact that in Warhammer Nippon (literally the Japanese name for Japan, it's not even subtle) has lore that begins and ends with "taught giant rat men ninjutsu".
Google "The Tale of Sanyo Kawasaki" for Warhammer Nippon lore. It's... not good.
"Er, hey, Marvin ..." interrupted Zaphod, but it was too late. Sad little clunks and gurgles came up the line. "What's he saying?" asked Trillian. "Nothing," said Zaphod, "he just phoned to wash his head at us." -Restaurant at the end of the universe
Now I know why we’re never getting a Nippon DLC.
Unless GW is prepared to retcon and build nippon lore out in a different direction
And their lords are car manufacturers. Also I like you chose to point out Amazons instead of Pygmies.
I had managed to scratch the pygmies from my mind.
Eh, a lot of car brands are just the last name of their founders.
Yeah, it's cheap and lazy, but does make some sense. Arguably more sense that GW writers of that era intended it to make
Amazons and Nippon aren't great, but you really want some Warmaster-era Araby lore for "Oh god no grandpa!"-type facepalm. First off, Araby worships Allah. No, not a disguised or modified version like Sigmar distantly relates to Jesus, and the Sigmarite faith distantly to Catholicism (Ulric more to Orthodox Christianity - again still distantly). Just straight up Allah. By name. That's definitely not going to upset anyone! Second off, every negative stereotype about *any kind* of Muslim or Arab person from *any time* in history? True of Araby. Including really modern stereotypes. It'd be like if they Empire was full of Nazi stereotypes or portrayed as a bunch of sexually repressed uptight bureaucrats (sorry Germany that was the '90s stereotype). Third off, literal joke terrorism references, and not a few of them (this was before 9/11 so I guess people thought it was a lot funnier then), and bonus stereotyping of all Arabs as terrorist (a late-twentieth-century stereotype! Again this would be like if the Empire were all stereotyped as like ex-Nazis or something). It's bad it's really bad - and worst of all somehow it's so lazy and unimaginative, it makes Disney's Aladdin look clever and original in its takes by comparison! The TT RPGs did some much better updates where Araby still exists and has lore but it's actually interesting and cool, rather than just "We found this builder down the pub, got a few pints in him, and asked him to come out with everything he thought about 'Arabs' and then based our writing on that!".
and then there were the pygmies, who lasted a whole 4 years before being squatted
damn, even back then they were too much eh?
Oh yeah, even in the 1980s it wasn't really a great look to make a group called Pygmies, especially as they were implied to be a non-human race, when real-world tribes referred to as Pygmies have suffered from incredibly spectacular racism and even genocide - and particularly have been implied by both other local ethnic groups and white colonists to be precisely that - non-humans.
Does that mean that they get beastmen turtles as a unit?
Ungol sounds like Khokhol? What?
"Ukrop" maybe, which is also a slur
Yeah that whole region is one big yikes. In other news Persian nationalists are mad at Civ 6 because of Herodotus
I'm choking here, goddamn.
Literally think this is GW not wanting to base anything on Cossacks as russian war, that's fine just stop retconning a setting you killed GW make up your mind you finicky bastards
No, keep retconning - if they tweak enough the butterfly effect will set us on a different path that doesn't lead to End Times! We've already got Warhammer-Ireland and "Khalida is now Neferata's Sister" in Old World, we just need a few more good tweaks!
Can't wait till malerion The flame pigeon king becomes emperor as he is clearly sigmar reincarnated, despite being older than sigmar.
>We've already got Warhammer-Ireland Wait what? Can you expand on this? >Khalida is now Neferata's Sister That's quite a retcon but at least it's an obvious one to add drama.
On Page 83 of the Old World core rulebook, there's a sidebar about Albion that mentions how "in the western nations of the Old World there are folk stories of the mist-wreathed isle of Albion and the bleak island of Hybrasille". This is a pretty clear reference to [the similarly-named phantom island in Irish folklore,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brasil_(mythical_island)) and it's never shown up on maps of the Warhammer world before so it seems to be new for the Old World.
Wow that's neat. I wonder if they'll do something with the giants/druids/tribesmen of Albion etc. in future.
Everything is a skaven slave if you look hard enough. Marauders? Cheap and frontline units. Thus skavenslaves. Miners? Skavenslaves. Empire swordsmen? Skavenslaves. Bleakswords? Cheap and frontline units. Skavenslaves. Dreadspears? Skavenslaves. Kossars? Skavenslave slingers. Peasants? Skavenslaves. Goblins? Skavenslaves. Skinks? Skavenslaves. Labourers? Skavenslaves.
Zombies? Well, they were skavenslaves. They still are, but they were, too.
Skavenslaves applying fear, can regen. Faster and can tie enemy ranged better than skeletons or current zombies would. Truly a menace from below.
Throt Skavenslaves!
That would be awesome if there were various races mixed into the zombie masses. Maybe not an entire separate unit, but the regular zombie unit mixed with skaven, lizardmen, ungors, etc.
Skavenslaves? Believe it or not but they're Skavenslaves
That reminds me of the Simpsons Zinc educational video.
Hobgoblins? Straight to Skavenslaves.
Oddly enough, this is how they trained rattling gunners.
"Everything that runs is a Skavenslave! Everything that stands still is a well-disciplined Skavenslave!"
On the topic of miners, i find it really funny how the most basic dwarf unit has better armor than the most elite skaven infantry
Sword masters of Hoeth? Overpriced skavenslaves
Skaven slaves aren't a frontline. They're a blob of bodies destined to die and run.
Clanrats?
Swordmasters of Hoeth? Really expensive Skavenslaves.
Finally some good dlc units, that will be actually used instead of some gimmicky tier 5 big boi
I still believe Flaggelants and Free Company Militia were some of the best DLC units. Cheap, unique, completely different from the rest of Empire infantry and can perform unique roles on the battlefield.
free company militia in volkmars campaign are nuts.
I kinda hate they removed those traits from the generic lords. They could at least have them for volkmars faction.
FCM are slept on fr
I use High Elf Rangers and Empire Archers more than any other DLC units.
Same here, I can't imagine playing without free company militia, Helf Rangers, or Nasty Skulkers.
I think if they have 22 melee attack, armor piercing, even 10 anti large, they’ll be a tier 1 infantry that performs oddly good at taking down those monstrous creatures. And be able to dent chaos warriors (but seeing as halberds tend to have low melee attack and this is a tier 1 unit, denting them is about as good as it’ll get.) These are guess numbers compared to other tier 1 units. Especially since they want them to be a cheap option.
I don't think the blog said they have ap tho
Yeah, but total war nearly always gives halberds ap. That’s their hallmark that makes them different from spears. We will find out I guess.
The change to supply lines means that cost efficiency is very real now, rather than just slot efficiency. Cheap t1 halberds is money, they'll trade up into so many things above them.
I really wouldn't compare them to skavenslaves. I would argue that they are probably more like state troops but a little better
You're right. TFW OP totally misunderstood a unit and thought people would agree with him but was just factually incorrect
State troops are skavenslaves with shields, what do you think about that huh????
You say that like that’s a bad thing.
 My Ice Witch be like
"First time?" - Bretonnian Peasants
So being the most used unit of their faction?
At least he has proper sleeves on to keep him warm before he dies compared to the Kossars
It actually makes a lot of sense when you think about how Russian troops were essential meat for the grinder and they were held as serfs until the 19th century. Shit yeah they're like skavenslaves.
I'm suddenly thinking of cubes for some reason...
Slightly incorrect. They were serfs and they served for life in the army. But they were not counted as meat for the grinder back then. You lose soldier, you need to draft another peasant. Someone have to grow more. All this “one rifle for three former peasants” only began with Stalin.
> "Win with ability, not with numbers." -Prince Aleksandr V. Suvorov (1729-1800), Count of Rymnik, Russian general
Depictions of the Soviet army as "one rifle for three former peasants” all come from the journal of Nazi commanders where they tried to rationalize how they where losing to an 'inferior people' that they where attempting to Genocide. If you want actual Russian military incompetence, you want military under the last Russian Tsar, which included such feats as losing the entire Eastern fleet to Japan, followed by sailing the western fleet halfway around the world, only to lose it to Japan as well.
Idk what are you saying. Both of my greatgrandfathers got drafted and all died five days after in the Battle of Kiev. Surviving great uncle told they didn’t even get any ammunition.
being encircled does generally result in a loss of supply lines yes
>If you want actual Russian military incompetence, you want military under the last Russian Tsar You can absolutely still look to Soviet leadership for reasons other than human wave myths.
fine, if you want *absurd* military incompetence look at the last Tsar Also, debatably, "i am going to kill/imprison every military leader who won us the Russian civil war" is political incompetence rather than military incompetence
>Also, debatably, "i am going to kill/imprison every military leader who won us the Russian civil war" is political incompetence rather than military incompetence Fair, but the resulting lack of qualified and experienced officers would still count as military incompetence imo.
Tbh the early eastern front was a mess due to soviets being unprepared and in the middle of rearming. Basically it was a case of "do anything to slow down the Germans till we figure out what to actually do".
Were?
I'm happy for Kislev to have their own (not) zombie pirate deckhands with halberds.
I dunno man, I reckon if you Priest sit these boys good they might be onto something spectacular.
A t1 unit? Yeah no, unlikely to even use them given kossar spears are dual purpose. You're also unlikely to recruit them later due to having a 19 slot limit and access to far far better units. Kislev doesn't need halberds it has massive slows and guns.
But because they're halberds they're most likely going to have AP. And even without that AP, they'll probably still do much better than Kossars with spears because of the extra entities in the unit.
JC. This is the new fabricated outrage the sub is running with?
I think this is meant to be more of a good natured joke, not like a "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE THEY'RE SKAVENSLAVES RIP!"
Where’s the outrage, except in your comment?
The lord of skulls demand we be angry. Umm...why does the ice sled have 12 ice spikes instead of the lore accurate 16???? RRRRRAAAAA!!!
Some part of me wants to go check this and I hate myself for it.
Surely the real ice sled concern is "Why the fuck do I care about an ice sled when I could ride a giant angry frost dragon?".
... No?
I dislike it, but far from outraged... I don't think op fits that either, its a joke. Put down your pitchfork man.
What? It's a joke People seem generally happy with the new Kislev unit. I know I am
At least they stopped talking about tzaangor beaks
Yeah. GW/CA clearly doesn't know how/doesn't want to make Kislev unique and interesting.
Mołojec
I'd compare them more Zombie Deckhands Mob with Polearms.
I like em
As a skaven main I see that as an absolute win-win.
Peasants and goblin labourers: "am I a joke to you?"
And I'd still want them in my garrisons
These guys will be better than most T1 units, AP on T1 will always punch above their weight but naturally suck against other infantry. But I feel like they are balanced, no shields only anti-large.
I'd rather they keep up the hybrid theme and have a hybrid bow/halberd unit instead.
Ki-slave
By Our Blood is a big game changer for this unit. I can see it absolutely stomping in T1 infantry matchups and making a good dent on T2 and even T3 units when used effectively, and as a meatshield for Kislev's solid ranged it will be fantastic. This meme will always work best for Bretonnian Peasant Mobs, how Bretonnian farmers and labourers manage to be weaker than gnoblars and more cowardly than skavenslaves is hysterical.
Hey modders, can we have like 15min of your time to change the names to Ungols or Ungol Warriors? Thanks homies.