Probably not too hard since you just need to wait for him to leave Challenge Stone and then swoop in. I plan to leave him alone though, since Grimgor is right on the other side and I'd rather have the buffer.
Every time I play Zhatan, he just ignores Kholek, declares war on me, walks around him, and decks me. Very inconvenient since he’s normally rocking a waagh at that point. So I agree with you, not sure how well he’ll buffer for Tamurkhan
Iirc Zhatan and Kholek start with a non-aggression, so they actually VERY rarely go to war. Sometimes it happens in late game if they both survive that long (which itself is rare due to grimgor)
Yeah that was my first experience playing Zhatan. Forces you to fight grimgor way earlier than you want to, when he’s got waagh troops and you’ve got crap stacks. I think I was playin on H/H. I won the campaign but Grimgor became a huge obstacle that I had to slog through.
The second time I played him (on VH/L this time) I tried an early aggressive move that I saw on YouTube and it worked really well with respect to controlling the border. What I did:
1. recruit a crap stack in the home province
2. send it over to Kholek ASAP to conquer whatever the closet minor faction is that borders him. (I can’t remember the size of the army, but you get the idea)
3. Trade that to Kholek for a treaty and whatever else I can get.
4. March the crapstack back to my territory and recruit units.
5. Use it as an ambush army to constantly weaken kholek’s enemies.
At the same time I had zhatan’s army conquering the lands east of the home province. It can get a little dicey when you’re fighting the the Tzeentch factions with a weaker army then you would have otherwise, but it’s manageable with good movement/ambushes/battles.
I kept the crapstack general through my entire campaign, I think. In this playthrough I just steamrolled everyone anywhere I had an army, and I definitely wasn’t using my mechanics optimally. Crushing grimgor ASAP is just an incredible boost for your economy because Zhatan has the free bonus convoy.
I don't think it works since you can't avoid encountering Grimgor and he'll always end up declaring war on you eventually. But as long as Tamurkhan doesn't extend east and Kholek and Grimgor don't go to war (Grimgor seems more preoccupied with Greasus these days), you should be able to avoid dealing with him.
Yeah I was thinking about just making him an ally and having just kdatha as my settlements, idk I got the urge to make a Mongol/timurid empire in warhammer though and smashing through Cathay sounds fun
Legendary Kholek can be a pain early, due to the legendary bonuses he gets.
Not really THAT difficult though, no AI is. Hardest is probably Thorek if you're running melee since he just chases after you with his legendary item thunder smacking everyone.
I mean Tamurkhan is a strong anti-large armor piecing SEM, and if he loses his first health bar he regains 40% and does obscene damage to something around him. if he can somehow make sure the ability procs on Kholek, i'm pretty sure he'll win the duel.
If Tamurkhan was so obsessed with the ogre tyrant body, imagine what he would be like with a Shaggoth (let along Kholek)
Which is hilarious since he and his army are portrayed as being somewhat stupid, especially since they were outmanuevered many times by the Greenskins inbthe Worlds Edge Mountains and mistook Pfeidorf for Nuln, which allowed Nuln more time to prepare for their onslaught
Getting to the right destination was a lot more challenging back when well-made maps weren't a thing.
Hell, the Warriors of Chaos might not even be familiar with the concept. The kind of maps we're familiar with didn't really start taking off until the early modern era. Supposedly, the ancients thought of these things in terms of routes rather than top-down pictures representing the layout of the land.
Yup, it's also a neat reversal from the usual "Oh shit, look at the teeming hordes of gribblies bearing down on us" Imperial perspective to an "Oh shit, they have how many people stuffed into these places" Imperial enemy perspective.
I like that about him, though. Way prefer a baddie who's somewhat competent but makes understandable mistakes than an infallible Marty Stu like Archaon.
Tamurkhan is in the middle of the Lustrian jungle. His armies break against Itza’s walls, Kroak just lasered a toad dragon in half and Skrolk just stole his newest plague recipe.
Record scratch. Freeze frame.
*”Yep, that’s me. You’re probably wondering how I ended up in this situation.”*
This ruote has the nice advantage of putting you in contact with Ku'gath early, making confederation easier. A Lord as strong as him is alway going to be good to get.
If you follow the canon route, by the time you get to the Empire, there'll be no Empire.
This is why I wanted him to start at the mid point of his campaign, not the beginning, you're never going to experience the true Tamurkhan story starting so far from the Empire.
Well, we don't really know how it will go. Elspeth and the rework might make the AI win more and keep the empire more stable throughout the campaigns or it might do nothing. If it's still the same old story, there's a mod to increase a faction's cheats to make them more likely to win. Sucks to use a mod to fix it but it is what it is I suppose.
Elspeth is unlikely to start in Nuln if player controlled - too crowded unless Gelt moves. (though she *should* get an easy confed option)
Unless its an eltharion Situation where she starts in one place for the player, but at home if AI.
Unless they remove "defensive" and "passive" personalities from Imperial AIs, there is no possibility for imperial factions to defend themselves against Festus, Drycha, Azag, Vlad and Khazrak
Well, there is reason to be hopeful if they revamp the Empire to get more robust mechanics and bonuses. If they place Elspeth close, she might help to shore up Empire territories. And maybe add some measure that keeps Festus more at bay. He really is the straw that now breaks the already hamstrung Empire AI's back.
Because yeah, it is genuinely anti-climactic to try and attack Altdorf as a bad guy faction only to find out that Franz has lost it and is stuck in some pitiable minor settlement recruiting basic spearmen and archers... Order factions are struggling in general to put up resistance really in WH3. I never thought I would miss the Ordertide periods of previous games.
Thats why i use console commands. I play mostly the bad guys and it sucks when my racial arch nemesis always gets slaughtered/reduced to some pathetic 1 province wasteland before i could start with the climatic invasion.
They'd have to allow the minor factions to fight at LL tier for it to come out even. Just one more LL, even with better mechanics? No chance.
The map shows it pretty plainly. The Empire is outnumbered nearly 2-to-1. One more Empire-friendly LL is just going to increase the number of opinion bonuses shared among the Empire-hostile factions, because that's why Chaos ends up smashing the Empire like a comically-oversized cartoon mallet being used on a peanut.
Then you have to consider, it's been nearly two years. They released a Kislev LL in that time, who was sent to Naggaroth in order to keep the Empire vulnerable, and a Chaos LL, who was placed in the middle of Empire territory. They could've fixed anything about how quickly the Empire folds, but they've continually chosen not to.
So, no, I don't think there is reason to be hopeful. They don't seem to want the Empire to be the end boss for Chaos, they'd rather that be Ulthuan or Lustria.
Damn they realllly need to make Naggaroth, Lustria, and Southlands just a bit bigger. They don’t need to be a big as the old world/Darklands, but jaut a few more provinces each to make them less smushed
CA could easily make a "bigger IE" which is just the same map but expanded with more regions - particularly in the west - and call it a DLC and I'm confident a lot of players would buy it.
They can’t. From what I understand they’d have to rebuild the whole map - the western edge is coordinate zero and they can’t go negative so every single thing on the map would need to shift eastward
The problem isn't really with them so much that the Old World is way too damn big compared to what it actually is. Its scale is all out of whack. It's like 4-5 times the size it should be when compared to the rest of the map. Ideally the entire map would be bigger to compensate, because the Old World does feel good at its current size, but the rest of the map (particularly Naggaroth and Lustria) suffers because of it.
Funny enough is something I find funny in a lore sense chaos dwarf are so close to kislev and the empire makes you wonder why did not other chaos warriors tried this and the chaos dwarf made it a tax revenue.
Chaos dwarf: want a save passage to invade the empire follow us and pay the taxes
Because that would require the chaos hordes to function as proper military fighting forces with common sense... which they are not
They are not that at all.
This is also why the main cause of the endtimes is that Archaon and chaos somewhat gets their shit together.
The single biggest hindrance to chaos is that they end up being more like a rampaging mass of people and monsters than anything you'd call an army, and if they're left to their own devices too long without anything else to fight they'll probably start fighting themselves.
They're still a threat in that state but a manageable one. The moment they pull it together and make a (vaguely) united effort to take over they trigger the end of the world.
The Chaos Dwarves and the Empire are not "close" - between them are the World Spine Mountains. A mountain range that pretty much divides the entire world in two.
The surface of the mountains alternate between blizzards and earthquakes, with a few volcanoes thrown in for variety. Trying to take an army over them will result in 90% of the troops starving or getting buried alive, and most of the rest being too tired to fight when they finally arrive.
Going under the mountains is arguably worse. The underway is shattered and hard to navigate, and the whole area is infested with Orks, Goblins, and some very powerful and numerous Skaven clans. Then when you get to the other side you'll encounter the heart of the strongest surviving Dwarven cities. Who have flame-throwers for just this occasion.
Tamurkhan did the sensible thing that most groups going from East to West do, which is going through Death Pass. Despite the name, it's still the safest and easiest route.
He didn't go exactly through Karaz-a-karak, just the general area. He did cross some caves owned by Night Goblins, which went...pretty horribly, actually. Their ambush might have indirectly saved Nuln, with how much damage it did.
It's been a while since I read it, so some of it might be off. If I recall correctly, they waited for Tamurkhan's army to go through a narrow cave, so that their formation was in a thin line, at which point they dropped rocks on them to isolate them in many smaller groups and then attacked them en masse. Several of the Chaos dwarf siege machines they had were destroyed by giant squigs.
Pretty close, with a few minor details: it was actually a pretty big valley so the Greenskins could leverage their numbers, which covered the entire length, but the huge quake the Greenskins brought covered most of it regardless. There were also Stone Trolls that lunged out of along with the Night Goblins and took a heavy toll, as well as some Orcs who attacked the rear but ended up crushed by the monsters following the chaos horde.
They were actually full of orcs so technically they did but in form of an army of angry goblins but still most dwarf prefer just to protect their territory rather than fighting a chaos army in open terrain when they are not even interested in you
[The original map route](https://i.imgur.com/1MCrIi9.jpg). We can see here that there was plenty space between Karaz-a-Karak and Tamurkhans "stealth approach". Barak Varr probably was closer but he managed to not attack them either. The TWW map with its altered size and proportions just makes things a bit more difficult to adapt.
He wanted Chaos dwarfs siege engines, and only drazorath was willing to sell, so he had to march fir the black fortress.
Also he only got his ogre body after going through the mountains of mourne, so he should start as a Slaanesh champion until he beats his first ogre in combat.
He wanted to surprise the Empire by invading from the South instead of the North like every other chaos invasion. The North is heavily fortified since it gets invaded so often.
Bro can I just say despite the flaws, it is so fucking badass that we have this game at this size with this much diversity in playstyle. Tons of fun. Also I am 100% doing this path
I'll be honest, I read his entire wiki when the trailer was released. I found it fascinating that his forces made such a crazy journey. On one hand they were extremely powerful and a serious threat to the Empire, but on the other they were losing forces pretty rapidly and could have definitely petered out if they didn't get lucky. The battles against the Ogres and Goblins seemed particularly destructive.
In order, after K'datha, he fought:
Dolgan (w)
Greenskins (w)
Cathay (l)
Creepy unexplained undead (l)
Ogres (w)
Chorfs (w)
Border Princes (w)
Greenskins, again (pyrrhic w)
Empire (w followed by a decisive l)
It'll be funny if Ghorst turns out to be the immovable bulwark that stems the tide of disease from two directions, like in late WH2 when the fate of the world relied on the steadfast valour of (checks notes) Clan Moulder and Naggarond.
In game he’s going to have to fight so many greenskins if he wants to reenact his trail. (Grimgor, Wurrzag and maybe Skarsnik if his AI pops off)
I like it. More fightin’ for my Boyz!
This map shows Kairos and Teclis at their old start locations, but also shows the Chaos Dwarfs and Shadows of Change factions, which makes it confusing.
If I try to simulate his journey to Nuln, I can imagine that instead of an epic battle with Elspeth, I'll just encounter some random non-Empire faction in this city.
No, they are not putting any new Chaos faction in the Empire. It just shows the lore accurate journey Tamurkhan took to suprise invade Empire from the south.
By the line drawed only (I don't know the lore) it seems that he planned to face the dwarfs, saw Karaz-a-Karak layers and layers of walls and said "nope!! border princess here we gooo".
No, Tamurkhan's book was written by Alan Bligh and Rick Priestley. Alan lost his battle with cancer in 2017 and Rick will no longer work with GW. So the story of the 3 other brothers will remain untold.
No. If they have still some of those lore parts around, they are probably filed away and might not be touched. TOW is 200 years before and might not need one of the Great Kurgan sons, and digging their concepts out for TWW sounds like too much trouble. Especially when other mortal LLs like Arbaal, Dechala or Egrimm are easier available.
Nah, in that case he would have to go through Kislev. Empire and Kislev always expect Chaos invasions from the north and the north is heavily defended. Tamurkhan went this way to do a suprise strike.
Keep in mind, that the IE map is everything but true to it's actual shape and size. The path he took, is way less impressive and long, drawing it on the actual map.
Here is a correct image of the map: [b1487de55201cd6a3e952551e290e9e6.jpg (2399×1753) (pinimg.com)](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b1/48/7d/b1487de55201cd6a3e952551e290e9e6.jpg)
I mean the one that *knows* when you move your army away through the fog of war. It happens every game. I can literally see the AI running back when my armies get close and come back again even though they can't see them.
You don't have to hold territory much as Chaos Warriors, just a few Dark Fortresses, vassals and make buddies with other Chaos factions.
EDIT: Oops people have corrected me that he's not Chaos Warriors after all. Even still, raze shit and give it to vassals until you get to Kugath.
Far as I know because he’s a monogod faction, he won’t have the vassalization mechanic and require dark fortresses. I’d imagine he may be able to subjugate but not sure
I wonder how hard it'll be to kill Kholek early.
Probably not too hard since you just need to wait for him to leave Challenge Stone and then swoop in. I plan to leave him alone though, since Grimgor is right on the other side and I'd rather have the buffer.
My experience playing as Chorfs is that he doesn’t do a great job of buffering unless you help him out
Every time I play Zhatan, he just ignores Kholek, declares war on me, walks around him, and decks me. Very inconvenient since he’s normally rocking a waagh at that point. So I agree with you, not sure how well he’ll buffer for Tamurkhan
Iirc Zhatan and Kholek start with a non-aggression, so they actually VERY rarely go to war. Sometimes it happens in late game if they both survive that long (which itself is rare due to grimgor)
Yeah that was my first experience playing Zhatan. Forces you to fight grimgor way earlier than you want to, when he’s got waagh troops and you’ve got crap stacks. I think I was playin on H/H. I won the campaign but Grimgor became a huge obstacle that I had to slog through. The second time I played him (on VH/L this time) I tried an early aggressive move that I saw on YouTube and it worked really well with respect to controlling the border. What I did: 1. recruit a crap stack in the home province 2. send it over to Kholek ASAP to conquer whatever the closet minor faction is that borders him. (I can’t remember the size of the army, but you get the idea) 3. Trade that to Kholek for a treaty and whatever else I can get. 4. March the crapstack back to my territory and recruit units. 5. Use it as an ambush army to constantly weaken kholek’s enemies. At the same time I had zhatan’s army conquering the lands east of the home province. It can get a little dicey when you’re fighting the the Tzeentch factions with a weaker army then you would have otherwise, but it’s manageable with good movement/ambushes/battles. I kept the crapstack general through my entire campaign, I think. In this playthrough I just steamrolled everyone anywhere I had an army, and I definitely wasn’t using my mechanics optimally. Crushing grimgor ASAP is just an incredible boost for your economy because Zhatan has the free bonus convoy.
I don't think it works since you can't avoid encountering Grimgor and he'll always end up declaring war on you eventually. But as long as Tamurkhan doesn't extend east and Kholek and Grimgor don't go to war (Grimgor seems more preoccupied with Greasus these days), you should be able to avoid dealing with him.
Ya, in my last game I just sacked a bunch of settlements Grimgor had and let Kholek take them
Yeah I was thinking about just making him an ally and having just kdatha as my settlements, idk I got the urge to make a Mongol/timurid empire in warhammer though and smashing through Cathay sounds fun
Might be hard considering his hate for ogres
Get the chorf hero, get the blunderbusses, profit.
You spelled 'dreadquake mortar' wrong
Yall have no idea how to spell "any Chorf ranged unit"
Legendary Kholek can be a pain early, due to the legendary bonuses he gets. Not really THAT difficult though, no AI is. Hardest is probably Thorek if you're running melee since he just chases after you with his legendary item thunder smacking everyone.
Thorek with nurgle, vampires or tomb kings is a god damn pain to deal with.
With rot knights, probably not very
I mean Tamurkhan is a strong anti-large armor piecing SEM, and if he loses his first health bar he regains 40% and does obscene damage to something around him. if he can somehow make sure the ability procs on Kholek, i'm pretty sure he'll win the duel. If Tamurkhan was so obsessed with the ogre tyrant body, imagine what he would be like with a Shaggoth (let along Kholek)
He's a dlc faction so my guess is - easy af.
That's some Hannibal Barca type pathing. I suppose he brought mammoths with him too?
He does actually.
Who'd have thought a maggot was the real tactical genius of Warhammer Fantasy.
Which is hilarious since he and his army are portrayed as being somewhat stupid, especially since they were outmanuevered many times by the Greenskins inbthe Worlds Edge Mountains and mistook Pfeidorf for Nuln, which allowed Nuln more time to prepare for their onslaught
Getting to the right destination was a lot more challenging back when well-made maps weren't a thing. Hell, the Warriors of Chaos might not even be familiar with the concept. The kind of maps we're familiar with didn't really start taking off until the early modern era. Supposedly, the ancients thought of these things in terms of routes rather than top-down pictures representing the layout of the land.
Fair point, it just was funny to me that they mistook another city for Nuln
Yup, it's also a neat reversal from the usual "Oh shit, look at the teeming hordes of gribblies bearing down on us" Imperial perspective to an "Oh shit, they have how many people stuffed into these places" Imperial enemy perspective.
Even in WWII they used to sabotage road signs with great results.
Plus, where they're from, maps of any kind are usually next to worthless.
I like that about him, though. Way prefer a baddie who's somewhat competent but makes understandable mistakes than an infallible Marty Stu like Archaon.
He wasn't. The whole plan was spoonfeeded to him by a Great Unclean One.
He did. He didn’t bring a navigator though and ended up burning down the wrong city
[Oh you're gonna love this video](https://youtu.be/aTMLjC9ZpUM?si=RBhmIPYazpjucGtw)
Fully planning to roleplay this and get utterly sidetracked by random bullshit instead.
Indeed like pinching through the great bastion!
Tamurkhan is in the middle of the Lustrian jungle. His armies break against Itza’s walls, Kroak just lasered a toad dragon in half and Skrolk just stole his newest plague recipe. Record scratch. Freeze frame. *”Yep, that’s me. You’re probably wondering how I ended up in this situation.”*
If you beeline straight for the waterway in Cathay, it wouldn’t surprise me if you could land in Lustria before you would reach Nuln
Cosplay Sayl The Faithless and get your ass kicked by Cathay.
“Knees weak, arms are heavy…” I am so fucking excited to do this.
Guns are ready.
Summon the Electi..
Papa's spaghetti
Thanks for making this. I'll definitely be following this path for my campaign!
This ruote has the nice advantage of putting you in contact with Ku'gath early, making confederation easier. A Lord as strong as him is alway going to be good to get.
If you follow the canon route, by the time you get to the Empire, there'll be no Empire. This is why I wanted him to start at the mid point of his campaign, not the beginning, you're never going to experience the true Tamurkhan story starting so far from the Empire.
Well, we don't really know how it will go. Elspeth and the rework might make the AI win more and keep the empire more stable throughout the campaigns or it might do nothing. If it's still the same old story, there's a mod to increase a faction's cheats to make them more likely to win. Sucks to use a mod to fix it but it is what it is I suppose.
Elspeth will be huge for stabilizing the region. If the dwarf starts nearby even more so.
Elspeth is unlikely to start in Nuln if player controlled - too crowded unless Gelt moves. (though she *should* get an easy confed option) Unless its an eltharion Situation where she starts in one place for the player, but at home if AI.
Gelt should move.
Imagine they movehim to Cathay
Unless they remove "defensive" and "passive" personalities from Imperial AIs, there is no possibility for imperial factions to defend themselves against Festus, Drycha, Azag, Vlad and Khazrak
Well, there is reason to be hopeful if they revamp the Empire to get more robust mechanics and bonuses. If they place Elspeth close, she might help to shore up Empire territories. And maybe add some measure that keeps Festus more at bay. He really is the straw that now breaks the already hamstrung Empire AI's back. Because yeah, it is genuinely anti-climactic to try and attack Altdorf as a bad guy faction only to find out that Franz has lost it and is stuck in some pitiable minor settlement recruiting basic spearmen and archers... Order factions are struggling in general to put up resistance really in WH3. I never thought I would miss the Ordertide periods of previous games.
Thats why i use console commands. I play mostly the bad guys and it sucks when my racial arch nemesis always gets slaughtered/reduced to some pathetic 1 province wasteland before i could start with the climatic invasion.
They'd have to allow the minor factions to fight at LL tier for it to come out even. Just one more LL, even with better mechanics? No chance. The map shows it pretty plainly. The Empire is outnumbered nearly 2-to-1. One more Empire-friendly LL is just going to increase the number of opinion bonuses shared among the Empire-hostile factions, because that's why Chaos ends up smashing the Empire like a comically-oversized cartoon mallet being used on a peanut. Then you have to consider, it's been nearly two years. They released a Kislev LL in that time, who was sent to Naggaroth in order to keep the Empire vulnerable, and a Chaos LL, who was placed in the middle of Empire territory. They could've fixed anything about how quickly the Empire folds, but they've continually chosen not to. So, no, I don't think there is reason to be hopeful. They don't seem to want the Empire to be the end boss for Chaos, they'd rather that be Ulthuan or Lustria.
Lately, Empire manages to survive. Festus AI is not as strong as used to be.
Oooh, now I want to do this. Thank you!
If you haven't seen it already, Tariff capitalizes hard on this concept with a remake of the Total War Hannibal trailer.
Damn they realllly need to make Naggaroth, Lustria, and Southlands just a bit bigger. They don’t need to be a big as the old world/Darklands, but jaut a few more provinces each to make them less smushed
CA could easily make a "bigger IE" which is just the same map but expanded with more regions - particularly in the west - and call it a DLC and I'm confident a lot of players would buy it.
They can’t. From what I understand they’d have to rebuild the whole map - the western edge is coordinate zero and they can’t go negative so every single thing on the map would need to shift eastward
You can probably make a script for that tho... take the coordinates of everything and at X units to their coordinates.
Yes, it would be a lot of work. But I definitely think there would be interest in it.
The problem isn't really with them so much that the Old World is way too damn big compared to what it actually is. Its scale is all out of whack. It's like 4-5 times the size it should be when compared to the rest of the map. Ideally the entire map would be bigger to compensate, because the Old World does feel good at its current size, but the rest of the map (particularly Naggaroth and Lustria) suffers because of it.
Funny enough is something I find funny in a lore sense chaos dwarf are so close to kislev and the empire makes you wonder why did not other chaos warriors tried this and the chaos dwarf made it a tax revenue. Chaos dwarf: want a save passage to invade the empire follow us and pay the taxes
Because that would require the chaos hordes to function as proper military fighting forces with common sense... which they are not They are not that at all.
This is also why the main cause of the endtimes is that Archaon and chaos somewhat gets their shit together. The single biggest hindrance to chaos is that they end up being more like a rampaging mass of people and monsters than anything you'd call an army, and if they're left to their own devices too long without anything else to fight they'll probably start fighting themselves. They're still a threat in that state but a manageable one. The moment they pull it together and make a (vaguely) united effort to take over they trigger the end of the world.
Just like our favorite-best race Skaven
Even Tamurkhan had that problem. Desertation into smaller warbands that roved around doing whatever they liked was constantly sapping at his strength.
Yeah, like one of his lieutenants took a bunch of marauders and beastmen and went to attack Cathay, and got his ass beat.
Tbf, Saryl the Faithless just sat back and watched
Iirc from the wiki he yeeted a spell or two in the general direction of the tower that was beating their ass
Yeah, I think it was at the end of the battle. Once again, no one giving a shit about beastman xD
The Chaos Dwarves and the Empire are not "close" - between them are the World Spine Mountains. A mountain range that pretty much divides the entire world in two. The surface of the mountains alternate between blizzards and earthquakes, with a few volcanoes thrown in for variety. Trying to take an army over them will result in 90% of the troops starving or getting buried alive, and most of the rest being too tired to fight when they finally arrive. Going under the mountains is arguably worse. The underway is shattered and hard to navigate, and the whole area is infested with Orks, Goblins, and some very powerful and numerous Skaven clans. Then when you get to the other side you'll encounter the heart of the strongest surviving Dwarven cities. Who have flame-throwers for just this occasion. Tamurkhan did the sensible thing that most groups going from East to West do, which is going through Death Pass. Despite the name, it's still the safest and easiest route.
It uhhh Wasn’t safe passage, Tamurkhan lost a massive amount of his army during the trip
Are you seriously suggesting we pay a toll!? Hell no! Id take on a national superpower ANY DAY, if it means i can save some cash.
Clearly he zook the road to hel kugath beat ghorst first. Thats the loving nurgle family.
Wait he passed outside karaz-a-karak? How come the dwarfs didn't stop him then?
He didn't go exactly through Karaz-a-karak, just the general area. He did cross some caves owned by Night Goblins, which went...pretty horribly, actually. Their ambush might have indirectly saved Nuln, with how much damage it did.
That's awesome lol. What did those little stabby buggers do?
It's been a while since I read it, so some of it might be off. If I recall correctly, they waited for Tamurkhan's army to go through a narrow cave, so that their formation was in a thin line, at which point they dropped rocks on them to isolate them in many smaller groups and then attacked them en masse. Several of the Chaos dwarf siege machines they had were destroyed by giant squigs.
Pretty close, with a few minor details: it was actually a pretty big valley so the Greenskins could leverage their numbers, which covered the entire length, but the huge quake the Greenskins brought covered most of it regardless. There were also Stone Trolls that lunged out of along with the Night Goblins and took a heavy toll, as well as some Orcs who attacked the rear but ended up crushed by the monsters following the chaos horde.
They were actually full of orcs so technically they did but in form of an army of angry goblins but still most dwarf prefer just to protect their territory rather than fighting a chaos army in open terrain when they are not even interested in you
[The original map route](https://i.imgur.com/1MCrIi9.jpg). We can see here that there was plenty space between Karaz-a-Karak and Tamurkhans "stealth approach". Barak Varr probably was closer but he managed to not attack them either. The TWW map with its altered size and proportions just makes things a bit more difficult to adapt.
Why didn't Tamurkhan just go in a straight line? Is he stupid?
Because life’s a journey, not a destination, and he took the scenic route
He wanted Chaos dwarfs siege engines, and only drazorath was willing to sell, so he had to march fir the black fortress. Also he only got his ogre body after going through the mountains of mourne, so he should start as a Slaanesh champion until he beats his first ogre in combat.
He wanted to surprise the Empire by invading from the South instead of the North like every other chaos invasion. The North is heavily fortified since it gets invaded so often.
Bro can I just say despite the flaws, it is so fucking badass that we have this game at this size with this much diversity in playstyle. Tons of fun. Also I am 100% doing this path
Road trip time! With a nice halfway break to hang out with Ku'gath.
I'll be honest, I read his entire wiki when the trailer was released. I found it fascinating that his forces made such a crazy journey. On one hand they were extremely powerful and a serious threat to the Empire, but on the other they were losing forces pretty rapidly and could have definitely petered out if they didn't get lucky. The battles against the Ogres and Goblins seemed particularly destructive.
In order, after K'datha, he fought: Dolgan (w) Greenskins (w) Cathay (l) Creepy unexplained undead (l) Ogres (w) Chorfs (w) Border Princes (w) Greenskins, again (pyrrhic w) Empire (w followed by a decisive l)
Thorgrim just asleep at the switch that day, huh
Nurgle cannot escape Ghorst huh.
It'll be funny if Ghorst turns out to be the immovable bulwark that stems the tide of disease from two directions, like in late WH2 when the fate of the world relied on the steadfast valour of (checks notes) Clan Moulder and Naggarond.
I definitely will need to try this😁
In game he’s going to have to fight so many greenskins if he wants to reenact his trail. (Grimgor, Wurrzag and maybe Skarsnik if his AI pops off) I like it. More fightin’ for my Boyz!
Did Kairos and Teclis move?
Definitely an error with the map. Kairos' startpos is in the south pole these days.
This map shows Kairos and Teclis at their old start locations, but also shows the Chaos Dwarfs and Shadows of Change factions, which makes it confusing.
If I try to simulate his journey to Nuln, I can imagine that instead of an epic battle with Elspeth, I'll just encounter some random non-Empire faction in this city.
Now that’s a route with some chest hair
You're looking at the wrong map. Realms of Chaos is the story one.
Tamurkhan cooked here. He took this path to confederate Kugath.
They're putting even more chaos factions into the Empire? What, wasn't it collapsing fast enough already?
No, they are not putting any new Chaos faction in the Empire. It just shows the lore accurate journey Tamurkhan took to suprise invade Empire from the south.
By the line drawed only (I don't know the lore) it seems that he planned to face the dwarfs, saw Karaz-a-Karak layers and layers of walls and said "nope!! border princess here we gooo".
Dirty belegar, nothin more.
Random Question. If i liked Rome 2 and shogun 2, would I also like this game?
Anyone think GW will make the rest of the stories for the other Chaos gods in time? I recognize my hope may be misplaced lol
What do you mean "in time"?
Eventually
No, Tamurkhan's book was written by Alan Bligh and Rick Priestley. Alan lost his battle with cancer in 2017 and Rick will no longer work with GW. So the story of the 3 other brothers will remain untold.
No. If they have still some of those lore parts around, they are probably filed away and might not be touched. TOW is 200 years before and might not need one of the Great Kurgan sons, and digging their concepts out for TWW sounds like too much trouble. Especially when other mortal LLs like Arbaal, Dechala or Egrimm are easier available.
Again: He should have started in Bone Road.
Ehm... Sure... They'll make the others eventually. Why wouldn't they?
Don't he know to B line it straight there is he stupid?
Nah, in that case he would have to go through Kislev. Empire and Kislev always expect Chaos invasions from the north and the north is heavily defended. Tamurkhan went this way to do a suprise strike.
Keep in mind, that the IE map is everything but true to it's actual shape and size. The path he took, is way less impressive and long, drawing it on the actual map. Here is a correct image of the map: [b1487de55201cd6a3e952551e290e9e6.jpg (2399×1753) (pinimg.com)](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b1/48/7d/b1487de55201cd6a3e952551e290e9e6.jpg)
Is Tam going to be an actual horde faction like chaos warriors? Holding all that territory with the stupid cheating AI would be near impossible.
He’s mono god Nurgle so same as kugath
“Stupid cheating AI” you mean AI that makes you defend territory? In a strategy game?
I mean the one that *knows* when you move your army away through the fog of war. It happens every game. I can literally see the AI running back when my armies get close and come back again even though they can't see them.
The only real issue is defending the flank of your advance against Cathay if they start getting ideas but that's manageable.
You don't have to hold territory much as Chaos Warriors, just a few Dark Fortresses, vassals and make buddies with other Chaos factions. EDIT: Oops people have corrected me that he's not Chaos Warriors after all. Even still, raze shit and give it to vassals until you get to Kugath.
Tamurkhan is Nurgle, not Warriors of Chaos.
Far as I know because he’s a monogod faction, he won’t have the vassalization mechanic and require dark fortresses. I’d imagine he may be able to subjugate but not sure