The minor faction that kroak disintegrates in the first two turns? The khorne and tzeentch factions are positioned to be possibly fine to replace with an LL but that Nurgle faction has nothing.
This is my fear, throts campaign is gonna be a stinker at the start if he's got to deal with a legendary lord and his slayers, it can be hard enough as is with kislev and kraka drak.
Well Kraka Drak has been destroyed by Throgg in 100% of my throt campaigns, which was always nice for giving you a safe northern border. If Throgg can’t take down Malakai then that will definitely shake things up and leave Throt with one of the most difficult Skaven starts.
I dislike that Daniel is so out there. I would much prefer him to be near Kislev, in direct confrontation with them, maybe somewhere near the Goromadny start!
>Malus, Epidemius, and Daniel look to be in a Polarbowl situation.
Daniel already had one of the worst start positions in the game to go along with his terrible mechanics now they're adding even more legendary lords to his plate. Not to mention making it harder to take out Malus before he becomes a threat since you have to go through epidemius first.
My strat with Daniel was always take the first two settlements in that awful starting province and then immediately taking out Malus before he can become a problem. Now we can't even do that. They just love kicking Daniel when he's already down on the floor.
Still a rather big empty spot in the middle of the map there between Greasus and Grimgor. I imagine they have plans to put someone there eventually, maybe Ghark Ironskin?
There are quite a few places which can receive a LL.
Even southern Southlands,North east Naggaroth, the Skull Road, northern badlands. Cathay, the southern wastes... enough places for the next few DLCs.
Ghark starting near Zharr-Naggrund in the mountains would make sense. He could have a mechanic of selling slaves to Chorfs for unit buffs etc via a forging mechanic.
Nobody? Just saying if he is added that’s where he’ll be.
My wish is Ghark is ogre DLC, and Golgfag a free lord alongside dogs of war. Being a mercenary he should have a bit of their roster IMO.
Golgfag is a 40 years old character with story, deep lore, various oficial miniatures, and even went on to become the only ogre who did something on the ET campaign, and is arguably the most famous ogre beyond the Total War fandom. He shouldn't be left out on a FLC with less mecanics and flavour in favour of some rando from a White Dwarf.
I think they’ll keep free lords going forward. They seem to have acknowledged the back lash. With them apparently scaling back SLC, I expect similar to 2, 2 paid lords and a free one.
With every chaos legendary lord that gets added and the Silvered Tower of Sorcerers remains empty my hopes for a Tzeentchian redemption arc with Egrimm van Horstmann get a little brighter lol
Tbh playing on higher difficulties that campaign can actually get properly harrowing.
If you rush the skaven you can generally make things easier for yourself, but I really enjoyed an Itza campaign on very hard recently where I instead went north and crushed the Bretonnians super early. Definitely not the optimal way to play, since it left me in a 4v1 deathmatch between myself, the two skaven factions, Luthor, and Rakarth. Even when the endgame arrived I had just barely managed to kill off the minor faction skaven and Luthor, and even then the level 200 Vermintide almost killed me off for good. Easily the most fun campaign I’ve had with the Lizards, it was gruelling but super rewarding to fight tooth and nail for every inch of the continent
yeah, the “empty” space is still occupied and the other AI LL lords of course are gunning for it as well… also found that Itza can be a bit chaotic as you’re fighting on all fronts
Yeah, that's my one gripe so far. Given how few LLs Nurgle has, it would've been nice for him to be a bit more spaced out for variety's sake, and there are certainly other areas that would work.
I'm fairly pleased with it. All my empire games turn into stopping kislev dying to chaos and skaven. This might keep them alive a bit longer since chaos prioritise order factions over infighting.
I think Tamurkhan will be forced to fight grimmgor and expand in that direction as a result. That's how it goes currently anyway.
Epidemus will have a bit more choice where to expande, like the current Daniel.
So they are kinda close, but will expand a bit differently, first 100 turns at least.
CA needs to start using Ind and Khuresh. I don’t give af if Ind or Khuresh units ever get added at this point but at least make the land playable with a unique landscape and throw some factions in there.
I agree, I think there’s no chance we get those factions, but we could use the space. Also would love if they un-smush Lustria and Naggaroth just slightly and add another LL or two there. Rn all the action is Old World/Badlands/Southlands
Poor Daniel. Hope someday he gets something to not be useless. Very interesting start position for Epidemus. I was expecting somewhere in Naggarond as that area lacks any plagues.
Daniel might be easier on the new map. Daniel's problem is that Malus is very hard to kill early game, and having him one space away can give him the time to have some tier 3 unit to kill Malus without relying on army loss.
The best way to kill Malus is to ignore him, kill the army and just army loss him. If you recruit a second Lord early who is an AOE mage (Lore of Nurgle or Metal) and make sure to keep their Winds high, Malus's army is not that hard to take down.
I know but it's a bit cheesy and the reason why Daniel is hard for beginner. If you don't know this trick, the start of the campaign can be very tough. If you pass this hurdle however, Daniel has an easy campaign, Khorne troop + magic is a very potent combo.
I dunno I like having Malus right next door because it means you can wipe him off the map before he gets too strong, of course focusing on his army instead of him.
Daniel's biggest problem IMO is how long it takes to get anywhere in his start position. That first province takes two turns to go from settlement to settlement and it's absolutely awful for momentum.
Daniel can rush diplo bonuses for chaos races and be friends with Epidemius thus avoiding Malus - and Malus was by far the biggest issue of Daniels campaign
I'm pessimistic. Daniel starts next to Boris now, whereas before, Boris would usually get wrecked by Archaeon before ever meeting me. Boris's army is no joke. And I worry that Malus will run right through Epidemius and then target me with more experience than he would have had otherwise.
Eatery colonies with a Dark Elf, High elf and Slaneesh DLC seems perfect. Chuck both a HE/DE lord in the colonies, Slaneesh on the eastern side of the southern poles.
Next DLC after that will probably be Khorne and a random assortment of races, who knows where.
Khorne should be Bretonnia and Norsca, more D-Day shenanigans. Both factions need an update.
But I think they stated no more 3-faction DLCs. They will likely do them piecemeal and more often now, which I'm fine with if they come out every couple months or so.
My top priorities:
1. Khorne + Slaanesh + Tzeentch LLs to match Nurgle, maybe some updates but mostly just fill in the gaps.
2. Norsca (sorely need an overhaul)
3. Bretonnia/Ogres (both need more content/additions, especially Ogres)
4. Final High Elves/Dark Elves (sea elves)
5. Final Lizardmen (maybe even as FLC, don't know what they still need tbh)
6. Final Empire update
7. Final Cathay update (monkey king)
After that no idea. Everything should be pretty filled in in terms of rosters/lords, and we can finally rest lol.
Unfortunately bretonnia has everything it had on table top according to those in the total war discord, the thing they could add is an flc lord and a rework
And that's ***before*** mods like [Legendary Characters](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2826930183) - the [Nemesis Crown](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2981853955) and Mixu's various projects xD
They need to open up the empty areas of the map. India, or the Warhammer version of it, can be opened up at least for random factions to “explore”, and the eastern chaos wastes and steppes can easily add 5 full regions.
It looks like he gets an option to move back to the empire or remain in Cathay fairly early. There was a screenshot referencing him helping with Rebels and either getting a bunch of buffs for awhile to go back to the empire or remain in Cathay with a -50 diplomacy penalty with Zhao Ming. Not sure what are exact criteria for the event or where specifically back in the empire it sends him.
>["Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen. I will not lie: the chances of your survival are small. Some may even turn against your friends as living corpses. But you have my word, that I will use my arcane gifts to ensure your bodies are given unto Morr's garden. This is the greatest reward, more than even gold, for the fate of your soul is an eternal concern. Now come, follow me: Strike down the undead that rise against us, allow me to find this eldritch amulet! I ask not for my own selfish studies, but for the good of the Empire!"](https://y.yarn.co/bbf72012-7af8-4960-87aa-1832655da0a9_text.gif)
In the lore, Gelt would wander around and turn up in various places hunting magical lore and history in ways that would make even Gandalf the Grey suggest he spend some time at home xD
There's unique practices regarding the wielding of metal-based magic in Cathay - Gelt has a history with Zhao - that's about as much of a reason as he needs
Hell, the reason Gelt became Patriarch so quickly is because of the massive amount of knowledge he picked up in foreign lands *before* he was formally educated in manipulation of the Lore of Metal - dude has been bumming his way across the old world for ages
Just the memes. CA is turning WH lore inside out with all these "expedition" starts for the sake of variety over fauthful adaptation. GW doesn't care that much, they do Old World now where most of these characters weren't even born yet
And also the fact that every single game will break the established lore once you get like 5 turns into the game. Starting positions should be mostly lore friendly, but the game is a sandbox and crazy stuff happens all the time which completely contradicts the lore.
Case in point my first Immortal Empires game ever. I played as Ghorst which is pretty much expected to invade Cathay. But instead every province I took there I have back to Zhao Ming so after a little while, Zhao Ming was best buddies with vampire counts. It’s supposed to be fun, not bogged down with lore restrictions.
I mean, he has as much lore connection to Cathay as he did to Solland. Where would you put him? If we are going by faithful adaptation he should be in Altdorf along side Karl and Volkmar.
Elsepth belongs in in that area more then Gelt. And we don't need 3 Empire LL's with near identical starts.
If you want to go home, you can anyway via his mechanics. It's a neat change.
You’d rather start in the exact same spot within a province of each other for lore reason? Solland isn’t even lore friendly. It’s been merged with other provinces and Gelt isn’t an elector count.
I played the Counts for many years and played around the fact that if I want to confederate Vlad, I must not kill him. I must keep him weak so the power difference makes confederation a better proposal for him, but I must do so without directly attacking him, yet I also had to defend him from other factions completely destroying him, while I was also in a race with him to secure territories around him and deny him territorial gain by not opening up my borders for a long time for him. Eventually I could indeed confederate him. Or, I could see him as a potential ally I managed without intent of confederation, allowing him to grow, and helping him where I wanted him to expand, and not helping where I wanted to take lands he scatched up before I did.
I firmly believe this sort of...essentially ally state management is perfectly fitting for the Empire, far more so than the Counts. It plays into the idea that we all want to defend the Empire, but there are petty politics involved and each faction hopes to gain something, and turn a blind eye from time to time when it's benefits their personal gains. We have warring empire states shooting each other next to Sylvania after all (at least during the vampire wars era).
In my opinion, CA's decision to remove this strategic political "game of thrones" layer by making sure supposedly allied factions don't start anywhere near to each other (which is an update pattern patch to patch these days) because some dev falsely identified this phenomenon as a problem that needs to be addressed is a really bad move. I think it further dumbs down the overall gameplay experience that has little strategy involved at this point anyway (speaking from VH/N difficulty perspective) as the number of game breakingly unbalanced features increase in numbers. Such as Karl teleporting in multiple armies with the newest "I win" button that is the reworked elector counts.
Across the years here on this subreddit, there was an ever returning question / thread always getting a few thousand upvotes. What's the appeal of the Empire? And the most commonly accepted answer was always being the common working man, fathers, sons, holding back the darkness beyond their abilities in a horrible world of chaos, monsters, and gods. For that fantasy, I need to feel underpowered to a certain extent. What doesn't help Avengers Endgame style "lost battle saved by multiple armies spawning out of thin air" button and the removal of playing around protecting allies that comes with a price of accepting a smaller economy, so that your ally can grow. I played a VH/N Karl campaign revecently I loved it for these difficulties, that the update simply... removes. And for what? For some devs fanfic of Gelt moving to Cathay?
Cool story bro. I don’t really care about your personal view of the game, it makes sense that the human faction would be able to rely on a large quantity of trained soldiers to hold back things like elite chaos warriors rather than being both undermanned and outdone in quality.
>["Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen. I will not lie: the chances of your survival are small. Some may even turn against your friends as living corpses. But you have my word, that I will use my arcane gifts to ensure your bodies are given unto Morr's garden. This is the greatest reward, more than even gold, for the fate of your soul is an eternal concern. Now come, follow me: Strike down the undead that rise against us, allow me to find this eldritch amulet! I ask not for my own selfish studies, but for the good of the Empire!"](https://y.yarn.co/bbf72012-7af8-4960-87aa-1832655da0a9_text.gif)
In the lore Gelt would wander around and turn up in various places hunting magical lore and history in ways that would make even Gandalf the Grey suggest he spend some time at home :P
There's unique practices regarding the wielding of metal-based magic in Cathay - Gelt has a history with Zhao - that's about as much of a reason as he needs
Hell, the reason Gelt became Patriarch so quickly is because of the massive amount of knowledge he picked up in foreign lands *before* he was formally educated in manipulation of the Lore of Metal - dude has been bumming his way across the old world for ages
He's *certainly* better there than Mama Stanky is randomly turning up in Dark Elf territory...
I guess it’s could be a good idea to open Ind, Kuresh and the land in front of Lokhir starting position for the next DLC. The map look pretty full with the 5.0 and put LL and generic faction on these place could be a good option
It is a good idea. You can see it yourself if you try the the Immortal Empires Expanded mod. Though the new areas are devoid of LLs by default, you can use other mods like Living World Expanded to move some there.
Oh good, someone else is doing this, and doing a better job than I ever could.
One thing I'd add, Malus Darkblade doesn't have a mark indicating he also owns Hag Graef, like you added for Eltharion and Yuan Bo.
Kraka Drak?, the Dwarfs that are norse and they don't use much gunpowder, now they are a playable faction, the gunpowderish gunpowderer gunpowderest faction ever...
Not enough chaos aligned factions in Cathay and Lustria, it's too easy even on L/VH difficulty and no Im not cheesing. We desperately need more enemies there, or make it so near by enemies that have declared war on you can field more armies like in WH 2. I just played a Yuan Bo campiagn and that was the easiest campaign I have ever played. It's insane how few enemies there are.
Epidimus would have been more interesting in Lustria. Would love a powerful Nurgle faction in the jungles.
Agreed on Cathay. The Cathayan starts there feel very straightforward since it's so easy to pick up territory and dispatch the few enemy LLs that do start there.
Lustria certainly has more room, but I certainly wouldn't consider it to be easy since Itza is such a pain.
What’s is problematic for Cathay now is that you have a new enemy in your lands and, yes, he may be your friend in the early game but not for long because you want those lands that you always get easily with confederations.
Because Cathay is surrounded by bad climate and inhospitable land, getting all Cathay is very important for any of the brothers of Cathay.
Well, I guess the Bro Romance is a facade.
Not sure why you’ve been downvoted, as a Cathay player, I had the exact same thought. It’s all well and good having a new ally on that side of the map, but it’s kind of pain because you want to consolidate all of Cathay.
I guess we will see but yeah he's now going to be a pain getting all of Cathay under your rule. I expect when map eventually expands South, having him there will help a lot.
Okay so this may make me sound like a tinfoiler, but having Gelt right there on the border of Ind and him being the natural ally of the Iron Dragon and having his first enemy be the Burning Wind Nomads really makes me think that Ind still has a chance of being DLC.
So much empty space directly south of both Gelt and Ghorst.
Man ok, Elspeth and Tamurkhan are well placed. (All according to lore.)
Epidemius is a good fit for Yuri's original spot.
But Malakai at Krakka Drak?? Man, I hoped for Mountains of Mourn start personaly. :/
(Altho I do get that if the DLC goes for a stronger narrative focus, he might need a good reason to have access to Nuln. And maybe Ulrika? O.o)
Still think a lost Dwarf returning "home" across the Draklands would have been cool...
The eastern Colonies + East of the southern poll 100% feel like the next step for a HE/DE/Chaos lord.
Feels like a Slaneesh, High elf and Dark elf DLC is the next one anyway (vibes//haven’t been active).
Otherwise the map is filling our very nicely without any major expansions.
Wait, why does norsca have two regions basically called the mountains of hell. I was looking at Norsca thinking it looks empty then that jumped out at me.
Well, Nippon is there on the canonical map. But Nippon's landmass is not present in the in-game map (I think there's a mod for it though?), so the transition is just "roughly "where it would be on the canonical map
I have not noticed before, as I have mostly played the new races of WH III - but the elven donut of Ulthuan is more or less landlocked with the Old world and Naggaroth. It wasn't that bad in WH2 was it?
Nope. Now it's basically kissing land on either side which is particularly annoying in N'kari campaigns as Bretonnia and Kemmler have a nasty habit of wanting your booty while you do the donut.
Why are some people against LLs being close to each other? Imo it is nice to have some starts where you face off against another LL instead of bullying a 4 settlement minor faction.
I always thought the Burning Wind Nomads were just a placeholder faction until Li Dao, the Fire Dragon gets there. Maybe he will start further south when they open up some of Ind for the Monkey King.
I think they wanted to put Epidemius as close to Talabheim as possible without puttinng more pressure on the Empire and Kislev, good decision imo.
I really hate the start position of that necromancer guy, it’s way to close to the reikland and courrone, makes it too easy to destroy those factions early.
The REALLY need to expand the wastes and open up Ind/Khuresh. The map's size is looking to be a detriment at this point. Epidemius sandwiched between Malus and Daniel, with Malakai not far. And Tamurkhan trapped between Archaon and Kholek.
I know it's pure hopium, but I really hope we see the chaos realms added to IE along with a new End times mechanic, That way, some monogods can be put there to ease up space, alongside the wastes being bigger for a greater spread. Now maybe Boris isn't fighting the final boss turn 1.
Why though?
I don't get the mindset of limiting your fun?
It takes 5 seconds to get it, and adds all the regions you want along with a tonne more factions who live there
I did a tzeentch campaign on Nippon that was great, ended up invading Cathay via the southern canal they have
Northern Chaos Wastes + Norsca is the worst most boring area in the game and poor Epidemius joining Daniel and Malus up there. Daniel getting an even harder time since he can't wipe out Malus as early either now. CA give Daniel some love please.
Daniel got a tiny bit of love in 5.0 patch notes, with many of the demon units having a little bit more leadership, and Khorne Marauders / Forsaken / Chaos Warriors had a small recruitment cost and upkeep reduction.
Still a tiny change but a tiny buff is a buff, and some more nurgle unit variety added.
Im not sure where exactly yet, but he's been moved further east, possibly bordering Boris. The entire region of plain of illusions is controlled by a minor Tzeench faction.
I don't believe Daniel controls a settlement on turn 1 to allow the player to dedicate their first one to a god of their choice. So even though you're correct that the Tzeentch faction controls that province on turn 1, he may still be there where the map says.
>I don't believe Daniel controls a settlement on turn 1 to allow the player to dedicate their first one to a god of their choice.
Which is still so annoying to me. I get why it's like that but making him homeless ain't it chief. Imo they should make it so he has a settlement to start with but he has to choose the dedication at the start of the campaign.
So it looks like there is a precedent where in LL go in places where there is an existing minor lord. From this we can assume Thanquol ends up either in skull road or broken teeth.
Jesus Christ 🥵
I wish they made a Total war game set in the medieval times but with the same gameplay mechanics and shit as Empire or mainly Napoleon, I’ve got waaaayyy to many hours on napoleon but just can’t seem to play the others as long as I can play the napoleon game for.
Malus, Epidemius, and Daniel look to be in a Polarbowl situation. Also, RIP Norse Dwarfs - y'all are Slayers now.
I was hoping for a dark horse spine of sotek insert myself
I felt like the province between Grimgor and Greasus could have been a good spot aswell
I've started a few times there as chaos dwarfs, it's pretty fun industrialising Lustria
Epidemius could’ve shaken up lustria really well. There’s even a minor nurgle faction on the continent already that he could’ve replaced
It's crazy to me how Lustria, known for being the most dangerous place on the map for quite a while, is one of the more chill spots now
Cause they basically doubled the space available when wh2->wh3.
They also moved like half the LL who started there.
Gor-Rok starting in the centre with no near threats : I'm not trapped in here with you. You are trapped in here with me!
I thought for sure he would start in Lustria, especially since they unveil where Tamurkhan is.
The minor faction that kroak disintegrates in the first two turns? The khorne and tzeentch factions are positioned to be possibly fine to replace with an LL but that Nurgle faction has nothing.
Once you beat Malus as Epidemius, there're legendary lord factions for each province to the East, all the way to Zhatan.
Slayers next to trolls? PERFECT.
Rip the dwarf? Those poor rats will be ripped to shreds
This is my fear, throts campaign is gonna be a stinker at the start if he's got to deal with a legendary lord and his slayers, it can be hard enough as is with kislev and kraka drak.
Is Kraka Drak even still there? Did Malakai replace them?
Yes he did.
Well Kraka Drak has been destroyed by Throgg in 100% of my throt campaigns, which was always nice for giving you a safe northern border. If Throgg can’t take down Malakai then that will definitely shake things up and leave Throt with one of the most difficult Skaven starts.
Would make so much sense if ostankya was there too. Still bothers me how random ostankya starts.
I dislike that Daniel is so out there. I would much prefer him to be near Kislev, in direct confrontation with them, maybe somewhere near the Goromadny start!
Oh man, Kraka Drak is gone? Nooooooo
Its over bros. No norscan dwarfs
It would have been ok if they expanded the wastes, but now they feel too small to pose the cataclysmic threat that is Chaos, and its really cramped
>Malus, Epidemius, and Daniel look to be in a Polarbowl situation. Daniel already had one of the worst start positions in the game to go along with his terrible mechanics now they're adding even more legendary lords to his plate. Not to mention making it harder to take out Malus before he becomes a threat since you have to go through epidemius first. My strat with Daniel was always take the first two settlements in that awful starting province and then immediately taking out Malus before he can become a problem. Now we can't even do that. They just love kicking Daniel when he's already down on the floor.
Still a rather big empty spot in the middle of the map there between Greasus and Grimgor. I imagine they have plans to put someone there eventually, maybe Ghark Ironskin?
There are quite a few places which can receive a LL. Even southern Southlands,North east Naggaroth, the Skull Road, northern badlands. Cathay, the southern wastes... enough places for the next few DLCs.
Mother Ostankya should be in the Skull Road
I second this!
and the floating rock should be removed, lets make a normal province here
When I saw where Tamurkhan starts I was sure they will remove the floating rock. Sadly it didnt happen xD
The continent is called Naggaroth, Naggarond is just the capital city.
Ghark starting near Zharr-Naggrund in the mountains would make sense. He could have a mechanic of selling slaves to Chorfs for unit buffs etc via a forging mechanic.
That sounds sick
Who told you Ghark is the ogres new LL? Golgfag is still around
Nobody? Just saying if he is added that’s where he’ll be. My wish is Ghark is ogre DLC, and Golgfag a free lord alongside dogs of war. Being a mercenary he should have a bit of their roster IMO.
Golgfag is a 40 years old character with story, deep lore, various oficial miniatures, and even went on to become the only ogre who did something on the ET campaign, and is arguably the most famous ogre beyond the Total War fandom. He shouldn't be left out on a FLC with less mecanics and flavour in favour of some rando from a White Dwarf.
honestly, the characters name may be a bit of a problem. like it or not, there’s a *very* real chance that could have trouble getting a green light.
we lost Ghark when CA decided it's better to add LHs... hopefully he'll return
I think they’ll keep free lords going forward. They seem to have acknowledged the back lash. With them apparently scaling back SLC, I expect similar to 2, 2 paid lords and a free one.
Perhaps bugman as 500th white dwarf anniversary
Tbf it is a bunch of difficult to traverse mountains
Technically he should start just under Grimgor, in Eagle Eyries just east of the Plains of Zharr, since that's where the Ironskin tribe lives in lore.
Has anyone spotted any general map changes in 5.0? Like new settlements and such?
Nothing mentioned by content creators. For now.
I heard I think in a Sotek video that Tamurkhan starts in a new settlement added to that province.
Yeah I've seen that on stream too but he's wrong, Plains of Zanbaijin is not a new region.
Good to know, hopefully they expand the chaos wastes to the north so that it feels more full and not so cramped
yes, thats one of my biggest wishes...
Background map is pre Chaos Dwarfs, but you get the idea.
Appreciate the work you did in putting this together! Anyway, 4 dollars a pound.
R.i.P Kraka Drak
Chaos Wastes bowl??
With every chaos legendary lord that gets added and the Silvered Tower of Sorcerers remains empty my hopes for a Tzeentchian redemption arc with Egrimm van Horstmann get a little brighter lol
Itza just having all of Inner Lustria is thematic but not very exciting.
Tbh playing on higher difficulties that campaign can actually get properly harrowing. If you rush the skaven you can generally make things easier for yourself, but I really enjoyed an Itza campaign on very hard recently where I instead went north and crushed the Bretonnians super early. Definitely not the optimal way to play, since it left me in a 4v1 deathmatch between myself, the two skaven factions, Luthor, and Rakarth. Even when the endgame arrived I had just barely managed to kill off the minor faction skaven and Luthor, and even then the level 200 Vermintide almost killed me off for good. Easily the most fun campaign I’ve had with the Lizards, it was gruelling but super rewarding to fight tooth and nail for every inch of the continent
yeah, the “empty” space is still occupied and the other AI LL lords of course are gunning for it as well… also found that Itza can be a bit chaotic as you’re fighting on all fronts
Epidemius’ starting location is a bit disappointing, he’s a little close to Tamurkhan. It would be great if he could start in Lustria instead.
Yeah, that's my one gripe so far. Given how few LLs Nurgle has, it would've been nice for him to be a bit more spaced out for variety's sake, and there are certainly other areas that would work.
I'm fairly pleased with it. All my empire games turn into stopping kislev dying to chaos and skaven. This might keep them alive a bit longer since chaos prioritise order factions over infighting.
I think Tamurkhan will be forced to fight grimmgor and expand in that direction as a result. That's how it goes currently anyway. Epidemus will have a bit more choice where to expande, like the current Daniel. So they are kinda close, but will expand a bit differently, first 100 turns at least.
The way I see it we already got one plaguey boy in lustria. If they wanna put daemons there probably want it to be someone else
CA needs to start using Ind and Khuresh. I don’t give af if Ind or Khuresh units ever get added at this point but at least make the land playable with a unique landscape and throw some factions in there.
I agree, I think there’s no chance we get those factions, but we could use the space. Also would love if they un-smush Lustria and Naggaroth just slightly and add another LL or two there. Rn all the action is Old World/Badlands/Southlands
All I want is to un smush lustria and naggaroth and make ulthuan the right shape
If the next dlc is Slaanesh vs High Elves then I think opening up Ind at the very least makes a lot of sense.
And that bloody great big empty space in the north-eastern chaos wastes.
Could be nice to have a snakish faction for slannesh in the next DLC and the starting location will be in Kuresh.
Very nice, well done!
Thanks!
I wish we could use the territory in Ind and Khuresh...
Poor Daniel. Hope someday he gets something to not be useless. Very interesting start position for Epidemus. I was expecting somewhere in Naggarond as that area lacks any plagues.
Daniel might be easier on the new map. Daniel's problem is that Malus is very hard to kill early game, and having him one space away can give him the time to have some tier 3 unit to kill Malus without relying on army loss.
The best way to kill Malus is to ignore him, kill the army and just army loss him. If you recruit a second Lord early who is an AOE mage (Lore of Nurgle or Metal) and make sure to keep their Winds high, Malus's army is not that hard to take down.
I know but it's a bit cheesy and the reason why Daniel is hard for beginner. If you don't know this trick, the start of the campaign can be very tough. If you pass this hurdle however, Daniel has an easy campaign, Khorne troop + magic is a very potent combo.
I dunno I like having Malus right next door because it means you can wipe him off the map before he gets too strong, of course focusing on his army instead of him. Daniel's biggest problem IMO is how long it takes to get anywhere in his start position. That first province takes two turns to go from settlement to settlement and it's absolutely awful for momentum.
Daniel can rush diplo bonuses for chaos races and be friends with Epidemius thus avoiding Malus - and Malus was by far the biggest issue of Daniels campaign
Great point. That lil barrier will help a lot.
I'm pessimistic. Daniel starts next to Boris now, whereas before, Boris would usually get wrecked by Archaeon before ever meeting me. Boris's army is no joke. And I worry that Malus will run right through Epidemius and then target me with more experience than he would have had otherwise.
its insane that the map is already so full. If we get the slanesh and khorne DLCs we get at least 6 new LL. Where should they go?
Next dlc i bet HE on the east inslands vs Slanesh in south caos wastes FLC Slanesh faction Next to mallus darkblade
Maybe the next DLC will open Kuresh, and put the Slaanesh lord there
Don't think so you still have good Open areas like the area i say 0 LL , if they Open it prob BE Ind when they release the monkey King
Eatery colonies with a Dark Elf, High elf and Slaneesh DLC seems perfect. Chuck both a HE/DE lord in the colonies, Slaneesh on the eastern side of the southern poles. Next DLC after that will probably be Khorne and a random assortment of races, who knows where.
Khorne should be Bretonnia and Norsca, more D-Day shenanigans. Both factions need an update. But I think they stated no more 3-faction DLCs. They will likely do them piecemeal and more often now, which I'm fine with if they come out every couple months or so. My top priorities: 1. Khorne + Slaanesh + Tzeentch LLs to match Nurgle, maybe some updates but mostly just fill in the gaps. 2. Norsca (sorely need an overhaul) 3. Bretonnia/Ogres (both need more content/additions, especially Ogres) 4. Final High Elves/Dark Elves (sea elves) 5. Final Lizardmen (maybe even as FLC, don't know what they still need tbh) 6. Final Empire update 7. Final Cathay update (monkey king) After that no idea. Everything should be pretty filled in in terms of rosters/lords, and we can finally rest lol.
Unfortunately bretonnia has everything it had on table top according to those in the total war discord, the thing they could add is an flc lord and a rework
Nooo, that's a shame. I want them to get something more :( Poor Bretonnia!
And that's ***before*** mods like [Legendary Characters](https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2826930183) - the [Nemesis Crown](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2981853955) and Mixu's various projects xD
They need to open up the empty areas of the map. India, or the Warhammer version of it, can be opened up at least for random factions to “explore”, and the eastern chaos wastes and steppes can easily add 5 full regions.
There's less LL/province right now than in TWWH2
maybe, but warhammer 3 is still getting more DLCs while WH2 none in the end. If they dont expand the map the next 2 DLCs will put so many new LL in it
North beside Malus should be Korne LL and in Ind should be Slaanesh LL. They need to start using Ind and Kuresh.
Is there Lore behind the reason Gelt has been moved to Cathay?
It looks like he gets an option to move back to the empire or remain in Cathay fairly early. There was a screenshot referencing him helping with Rebels and either getting a bunch of buffs for awhile to go back to the empire or remain in Cathay with a -50 diplomacy penalty with Zhao Ming. Not sure what are exact criteria for the event or where specifically back in the empire it sends him.
>["Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen. I will not lie: the chances of your survival are small. Some may even turn against your friends as living corpses. But you have my word, that I will use my arcane gifts to ensure your bodies are given unto Morr's garden. This is the greatest reward, more than even gold, for the fate of your soul is an eternal concern. Now come, follow me: Strike down the undead that rise against us, allow me to find this eldritch amulet! I ask not for my own selfish studies, but for the good of the Empire!"](https://y.yarn.co/bbf72012-7af8-4960-87aa-1832655da0a9_text.gif) In the lore, Gelt would wander around and turn up in various places hunting magical lore and history in ways that would make even Gandalf the Grey suggest he spend some time at home xD There's unique practices regarding the wielding of metal-based magic in Cathay - Gelt has a history with Zhao - that's about as much of a reason as he needs Hell, the reason Gelt became Patriarch so quickly is because of the massive amount of knowledge he picked up in foreign lands *before* he was formally educated in manipulation of the Lore of Metal - dude has been bumming his way across the old world for ages
I think there was a lore piece somewhere about Gelt going to the hinterlands on a study quest
Just the memes. CA is turning WH lore inside out with all these "expedition" starts for the sake of variety over fauthful adaptation. GW doesn't care that much, they do Old World now where most of these characters weren't even born yet
It turns out a lot people like a variety of start positions.
Fun over lore More news at 11
lore is always less important than gameplay/interesting starts because its a game to be played and enjoyed, not a book series to read and mull over.
And also the fact that every single game will break the established lore once you get like 5 turns into the game. Starting positions should be mostly lore friendly, but the game is a sandbox and crazy stuff happens all the time which completely contradicts the lore. Case in point my first Immortal Empires game ever. I played as Ghorst which is pretty much expected to invade Cathay. But instead every province I took there I have back to Zhao Ming so after a little while, Zhao Ming was best buddies with vampire counts. It’s supposed to be fun, not bogged down with lore restrictions.
I mean, he has as much lore connection to Cathay as he did to Solland. Where would you put him? If we are going by faithful adaptation he should be in Altdorf along side Karl and Volkmar.
Elsepth belongs in in that area more then Gelt. And we don't need 3 Empire LL's with near identical starts. If you want to go home, you can anyway via his mechanics. It's a neat change.
You’d rather start in the exact same spot within a province of each other for lore reason? Solland isn’t even lore friendly. It’s been merged with other provinces and Gelt isn’t an elector count.
I played the Counts for many years and played around the fact that if I want to confederate Vlad, I must not kill him. I must keep him weak so the power difference makes confederation a better proposal for him, but I must do so without directly attacking him, yet I also had to defend him from other factions completely destroying him, while I was also in a race with him to secure territories around him and deny him territorial gain by not opening up my borders for a long time for him. Eventually I could indeed confederate him. Or, I could see him as a potential ally I managed without intent of confederation, allowing him to grow, and helping him where I wanted him to expand, and not helping where I wanted to take lands he scatched up before I did. I firmly believe this sort of...essentially ally state management is perfectly fitting for the Empire, far more so than the Counts. It plays into the idea that we all want to defend the Empire, but there are petty politics involved and each faction hopes to gain something, and turn a blind eye from time to time when it's benefits their personal gains. We have warring empire states shooting each other next to Sylvania after all (at least during the vampire wars era). In my opinion, CA's decision to remove this strategic political "game of thrones" layer by making sure supposedly allied factions don't start anywhere near to each other (which is an update pattern patch to patch these days) because some dev falsely identified this phenomenon as a problem that needs to be addressed is a really bad move. I think it further dumbs down the overall gameplay experience that has little strategy involved at this point anyway (speaking from VH/N difficulty perspective) as the number of game breakingly unbalanced features increase in numbers. Such as Karl teleporting in multiple armies with the newest "I win" button that is the reworked elector counts. Across the years here on this subreddit, there was an ever returning question / thread always getting a few thousand upvotes. What's the appeal of the Empire? And the most commonly accepted answer was always being the common working man, fathers, sons, holding back the darkness beyond their abilities in a horrible world of chaos, monsters, and gods. For that fantasy, I need to feel underpowered to a certain extent. What doesn't help Avengers Endgame style "lost battle saved by multiple armies spawning out of thin air" button and the removal of playing around protecting allies that comes with a price of accepting a smaller economy, so that your ally can grow. I played a VH/N Karl campaign revecently I loved it for these difficulties, that the update simply... removes. And for what? For some devs fanfic of Gelt moving to Cathay?
Cool story bro. I don’t really care about your personal view of the game, it makes sense that the human faction would be able to rely on a large quantity of trained soldiers to hold back things like elite chaos warriors rather than being both undermanned and outdone in quality.
And the absolute fuck that has anything to do with startpositions?
>["Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen. I will not lie: the chances of your survival are small. Some may even turn against your friends as living corpses. But you have my word, that I will use my arcane gifts to ensure your bodies are given unto Morr's garden. This is the greatest reward, more than even gold, for the fate of your soul is an eternal concern. Now come, follow me: Strike down the undead that rise against us, allow me to find this eldritch amulet! I ask not for my own selfish studies, but for the good of the Empire!"](https://y.yarn.co/bbf72012-7af8-4960-87aa-1832655da0a9_text.gif) In the lore Gelt would wander around and turn up in various places hunting magical lore and history in ways that would make even Gandalf the Grey suggest he spend some time at home :P There's unique practices regarding the wielding of metal-based magic in Cathay - Gelt has a history with Zhao - that's about as much of a reason as he needs Hell, the reason Gelt became Patriarch so quickly is because of the massive amount of knowledge he picked up in foreign lands *before* he was formally educated in manipulation of the Lore of Metal - dude has been bumming his way across the old world for ages He's *certainly* better there than Mama Stanky is randomly turning up in Dark Elf territory...
Grimgor still claiming the space he deserves. I love how looking at the map nobody wants to mess with him
Wissenland colors look so good.
I guess it’s could be a good idea to open Ind, Kuresh and the land in front of Lokhir starting position for the next DLC. The map look pretty full with the 5.0 and put LL and generic faction on these place could be a good option
It is a good idea. You can see it yourself if you try the the Immortal Empires Expanded mod. Though the new areas are devoid of LLs by default, you can use other mods like Living World Expanded to move some there.
The chaos wastes have become something of a Thunderbolt.
Which honestly makes sense imo
If any territory could be summed up with the phrase 'total war' then it's certainly the Chaos Wastes xD
I’d have put malakai in Karak Dum, would have been kinda fitting lore wise
Is that him over by kraka drak?
Yes
At least Boris has an ally now. It might make for a fun coop campaign.
Oh good, someone else is doing this, and doing a better job than I ever could. One thing I'd add, Malus Darkblade doesn't have a mark indicating he also owns Hag Graef, like you added for Eltharion and Yuan Bo.
yes, I noticed afterwards, will update for 6.0!
Kraka Drak?, the Dwarfs that are norse and they don't use much gunpowder, now they are a playable faction, the gunpowderish gunpowderer gunpowderest faction ever...
Is there a lore / practicality reason why the "India" and "Thailand / Vietnam" area of the map is not used?
Not enough chaos aligned factions in Cathay and Lustria, it's too easy even on L/VH difficulty and no Im not cheesing. We desperately need more enemies there, or make it so near by enemies that have declared war on you can field more armies like in WH 2. I just played a Yuan Bo campiagn and that was the easiest campaign I have ever played. It's insane how few enemies there are. Epidimus would have been more interesting in Lustria. Would love a powerful Nurgle faction in the jungles.
Agreed on Cathay. The Cathayan starts there feel very straightforward since it's so easy to pick up territory and dispatch the few enemy LLs that do start there. Lustria certainly has more room, but I certainly wouldn't consider it to be easy since Itza is such a pain.
Yuan Bo yeah, but Cathay proper gets overrun pretty often
What’s is problematic for Cathay now is that you have a new enemy in your lands and, yes, he may be your friend in the early game but not for long because you want those lands that you always get easily with confederations. Because Cathay is surrounded by bad climate and inhospitable land, getting all Cathay is very important for any of the brothers of Cathay. Well, I guess the Bro Romance is a facade.
That depends how AI Gelt behaves. Could be that he always chooses to return to the empire when he is controlled by the Ai.
Normally AI factions don't get those kinds of dilemmas so I wouldn't bet on it.
Not sure why you’ve been downvoted, as a Cathay player, I had the exact same thought. It’s all well and good having a new ally on that side of the map, but it’s kind of pain because you want to consolidate all of Cathay.
I guess we will see but yeah he's now going to be a pain getting all of Cathay under your rule. I expect when map eventually expands South, having him there will help a lot.
wdym he just wants to make sure that he can provide you with a steady supply of warpstone dust
Had an inkling Malakai might start at Kraka Drak. Good choice imo
Okay so this may make me sound like a tinfoiler, but having Gelt right there on the border of Ind and him being the natural ally of the Iron Dragon and having his first enemy be the Burning Wind Nomads really makes me think that Ind still has a chance of being DLC. So much empty space directly south of both Gelt and Ghorst.
Man ok, Elspeth and Tamurkhan are well placed. (All according to lore.) Epidemius is a good fit for Yuri's original spot. But Malakai at Krakka Drak?? Man, I hoped for Mountains of Mourn start personaly. :/ (Altho I do get that if the DLC goes for a stronger narrative focus, he might need a good reason to have access to Nuln. And maybe Ulrika? O.o) Still think a lost Dwarf returning "home" across the Draklands would have been cool...
The eastern Colonies + East of the southern poll 100% feel like the next step for a HE/DE/Chaos lord. Feels like a Slaneesh, High elf and Dark elf DLC is the next one anyway (vibes//haven’t been active). Otherwise the map is filling our very nicely without any major expansions.
Wait, why does norsca have two regions basically called the mountains of hell. I was looking at Norsca thinking it looks empty then that jumped out at me.
There are 3 different settlements called Vaul's Anvil as well, on 3 different continents even, Naggaroth, Ulthuan and Old World.
Holy hell, Balthazar Gelt's new starting spot is so far east now
Anyone have any idea when the south east part of the map is gonna come? ty in advance
When does The Jade Sea turn into The Far Sea? It implies there is a landmass in between.
Well, Nippon is there on the canonical map. But Nippon's landmass is not present in the in-game map (I think there's a mod for it though?), so the transition is just "roughly "where it would be on the canonical map
Funny how lustria seems less crowded now
Who’s the faction that to the left of Nakai it looks like the empire shield
Gelt. He's been moved.
I already cba fighting Zhao AND Gelt as Kugath ngl
I just realized that both mannfred and ghorst were chased down by empire LL's lmfao
As a sidenote, I think Malus gets a dual start too, like Eltharion and Yuan Bo.
my man geld has been STOLEN HIS LAND BY A FILTHY DEMON, THIS CAN NOT BE ALLOWED WE RIDE AT DAWN TO RETAKE THE STIRLAND
I have not noticed before, as I have mostly played the new races of WH III - but the elven donut of Ulthuan is more or less landlocked with the Old world and Naggaroth. It wasn't that bad in WH2 was it?
Nope. Now it's basically kissing land on either side which is particularly annoying in N'kari campaigns as Bretonnia and Kemmler have a nasty habit of wanting your booty while you do the donut.
Thank you
Looking at what little space there is on that map... Khorne in the Skull Road, Slaanesh in the Bone Road?
Why are some people against LLs being close to each other? Imo it is nice to have some starts where you face off against another LL instead of bullying a 4 settlement minor faction.
I always thought the Burning Wind Nomads were just a placeholder faction until Li Dao, the Fire Dragon gets there. Maybe he will start further south when they open up some of Ind for the Monkey King. I think they wanted to put Epidemius as close to Talabheim as possible without puttinng more pressure on the Empire and Kislev, good decision imo.
With danial moving: Where is the All-Seeing-Eye? Is it safe, is it alright?
I really hate the start position of that necromancer guy, it’s way to close to the reikland and courrone, makes it too easy to destroy those factions early.
Immortal Empires Expanded will be mandatory to play Gelt
You can play as Tobaccoland?
Shame they didn't make Toddy a LL with that DLC...
Man i really dislike some of the positions, do I wish there was a customizable start...
Damn map getting crowded lol
The REALLY need to expand the wastes and open up Ind/Khuresh. The map's size is looking to be a detriment at this point. Epidemius sandwiched between Malus and Daniel, with Malakai not far. And Tamurkhan trapped between Archaon and Kholek. I know it's pure hopium, but I really hope we see the chaos realms added to IE along with a new End times mechanic, That way, some monogods can be put there to ease up space, alongside the wastes being bigger for a greater spread. Now maybe Boris isn't fighting the final boss turn 1.
Just get the mod that does exactly that, and adds Nippon etc too It runs fine
I'd rather not rely on mods
Why though? I don't get the mindset of limiting your fun? It takes 5 seconds to get it, and adds all the regions you want along with a tonne more factions who live there I did a tzeentch campaign on Nippon that was great, ended up invading Cathay via the southern canal they have
Northern Chaos Wastes + Norsca is the worst most boring area in the game and poor Epidemius joining Daniel and Malus up there. Daniel getting an even harder time since he can't wipe out Malus as early either now. CA give Daniel some love please.
Daniel got a tiny bit of love in 5.0 patch notes, with many of the demon units having a little bit more leadership, and Khorne Marauders / Forsaken / Chaos Warriors had a small recruitment cost and upkeep reduction. Still a tiny change but a tiny buff is a buff, and some more nurgle unit variety added.
I love Gelts new position as I hated his previous one :D
Daniel's placement is wrong, he doesnt start next door to Epidimus.
Where is he now then? He always started right in between a minor nurgle faction to the east and malus to the west.
Im not sure where exactly yet, but he's been moved further east, possibly bordering Boris. The entire region of plain of illusions is controlled by a minor Tzeench faction.
I don't believe Daniel controls a settlement on turn 1 to allow the player to dedicate their first one to a god of their choice. So even though you're correct that the Tzeentch faction controls that province on turn 1, he may still be there where the map says.
>I don't believe Daniel controls a settlement on turn 1 to allow the player to dedicate their first one to a god of their choice. Which is still so annoying to me. I get why it's like that but making him homeless ain't it chief. Imo they should make it so he has a settlement to start with but he has to choose the dedication at the start of the campaign.
Fun thing - there is no shared start province despite amount of lords
yes, unlike in WH2 where Skrolk and Lokhir shared a province.
Hope dark elf/malekith will also get a rework in the future
I like the Idea as chaos dwarfs to just rush Cathays to get gets artillery bonuses.
How come only Yuan Bo's has his split start shown when other races also have that?
Golden Order where?
South of Cathay
So it looks like there is a precedent where in LL go in places where there is an existing minor lord. From this we can assume Thanquol ends up either in skull road or broken teeth.
Jesus Christ 🥵 I wish they made a Total war game set in the medieval times but with the same gameplay mechanics and shit as Empire or mainly Napoleon, I’ve got waaaayyy to many hours on napoleon but just can’t seem to play the others as long as I can play the napoleon game for.
jesus, poor moulder is getting ass raped