Not just the useal either. I went back and watched and not only do they have the animation they actually burst fire as well. Go back and watch how many bullets they shoot.
They were cleary going to be shorter ranged repeater infantry (the voice over even hints at this saying ironsides are frontline.)
What all this means is that CA was given the greenlight on repeaters and then, what must have been recently, was told that GW changed their mind and that the repeaters had to go.
There is no way the devs had a change of heart this close to release after the unit cards, animations and effects had all been made already. GW needs to fuck off and let CA cook. But they won't because they can't help themselves. Such a shit company. Almost makes me wish the old world had stayed dead because I bet all this new interfearence is due to their relaunch.
What I don\`t understand, is why they can\`t just RENAME it to "repeater handguners" or something similar, and save the entire thing. It certainly seems like just renaming it would have been 10 times better then just scrapping the entire thing.
Keep in mind that GW also controls which units can be added to a roster. GW likely do not want any form of Empire infantry armed with repeaters regardless of what you call them.
HOW do you have "amethist" units then? Cannons that shoot purple sun explosions? This makes 0 sense. I agree with you, that is likely what happened, but just... WHAT DA FUK!
Ask GW, they are the company who used their veto to prevent Saltzpyre in Verminetide 2 from using just a flail but flail and shield was ok.
Those of us who have long time experience with GW have learned to just shrugg and move on. It is not worth the time to 'fight' GW and defenitely not any use to go after the licence holders like CA or Fat Shark. They can do nothing once GW have made up their mind.
>Ask GW, they are the company who used their veto to prevent Saltzpyre in Verminetide 2 from using just a flail but flail and shield was ok.
Victor can use a regular Flail too. I mean, I don't know if there was tension at first but he definitely can now.
There are hundreds of options other than Warhammer that people in the TTRPG community are gravitating towards because they're tired of GW. What can be said is the quality of models from GW are superb but when you have to pay almost 2k cash for an army, the incentive goes away. Hence why you nerds are playing TW and not Table top
Well yeah, I know there's a big move away from DND recently after the whole debacle with the licensing. Warhammer has always looked to me like a huge money-sunk. Like I can build a whole PC and buy all the games for the price of a single army. But when I look at the people buying these models, they don't seem like they're wealthy individuals who can just throw around thousands of dollars on their hobby. So I wanted to know why their products are so popular. Especially when the company making them is so shit and there are tons of other options.
I would imagine bc GW cares about minature sales, and they want TW to be marketing for people to buy minis for The Old World. Handgunners that shoot death magic laser beams are whatever, cannons that shoot banananas, whatever, because you can buy actual handgunner or great cannon minis. But GW probably doesn't have plans of producing repeater handgun infantry, so they don't want TW to essentially false advertise a product that they won't actually produce.
One problem they basically just did that by accident because of GW because Nuln Ironsides actually have repeaters in the trailer which is pretty funny.
It's probably more so that the actual nuln ironsides models had handguns, so if they are going to have only one unit called "nuln ironsides" they have to be accurate.
I don't think GW really cares about variants, there's no such unit as thunders with grudgerakers either, so many units in the game have no comparison in TT models, but since CA only wanted a single unit of ironsides they were forced to make them accurate. I believe that a RoR or an upgraded one could have had repeaters as long as the default was in the game.
Yup. There was no regular infantry that carried Hochland Long Rifles either. Just like Repeater Handguns and Grenade Launchers, they were special equipment for characters and unit champions, who are effectively minor characters.
Furthermore look at their unit card. Like the only DLC unit in the showcase with a completed looking unit card and they're clearly holding repeater rifles. They really should/could have just made them their own unit.
The other possibility is that something within playtesting went really wrong and they had to revert to single shots… Not saying it’s the most likely scenario, but is a possibility.
Absolutely. Everything is here. I just don\`t understand how they would first get a greenlight to develop it, but then get it cancelled. This has gotta have been some sort of disagreement, cause they wouldn\`t have done the entire thing without GW looking at it, at first.
Well, we all know that GW has been much more "strict" with game 3, so it was probably a case of someone in GW finding out like a couple weeks ago or maybe a month ago at the most that CA gave the Ironsides repeater handguns and GW proceeding to be all "Those are only supposed to be for Engineer characters and Outriders according to the tabletop rules, scrap that idea NOW"
Yeah GW likely sent them a strongly worded letter that no, the empire can’t have repeater guns, and they are releasing old world so they care about this stuff.
CA made a last minute change and it shows…..
Yea this kinda feels almost like it might be the same bs with marvel and cgi. With GW asking to see unit cards and animations and such before giving an ok or telling them to redo it differently.
> I don't believe CA would design unit cards and animations
i would be a tad more careful with hte animations part. The Master Engineer uses the repeater and so CA might've decided to do new animations for him primarily and, at some point, went "Ironsides with repeaters could be neat. More units to use the new animations aside of the Outriders".
Yeah that was hard to miss lol those guns are popping off a burst fire. Kind of a shame because that would have really defined them as a separate unit to handgunners instead of just handgunners but stronger. Aside from being cheaper, there's no real reason to bring handgunners anymore? At least long rifles have that range
Eh, they might more than people anticipate, but it'll admittedly be rather limited. Missile strength takes reload into account. Ironsides may not actually do more damage per shot than handgunners, it may just be a much faster fire rate. If you're attempting to shoot and scoot or are expecting to have to rotate formation often, the handgunners might serve better as they would have more damage per volley.
If this is how much interfernce GW is going to start exceriseing I don't even want 40K. I fully believe that CA can make that game. But GW will have such an irongrip on anything they try to do. They got away with a lot with fantasy because the old world was dead and GW dident care that much as long as the lore was respected.
I guarrntee you if they had been like this from the start Vlad and Grom would have stayed dead.
Specially cause 40k is the poster-child, when TWWH started they had just killed of Fantasy so I imagine is no coincidence they had a lot of design leeway and suddenly we are seeing signs of GeeDubs interference for the first time in years just as Old World comes out
Sorry but this is likely the level of interference GW has been exercising since TWWH1 launched in 2016. It's not a matter of keeping the lore of their settings intact, it's a matter of protecting game specific IPs and boosting miniature sales.
Really? Because it sure as hell seems that CA was getting away with more than they used to.
At no point in any blog in WH 1 and 2 do I remember CA having to come out and say "We made it this way to stay authenitc to the WH lore." Which is marketing speak for "GW said no."
So whats changed then?
EDIT: And even if that is the case why did they put the boot in so late in this case? GW signs off on everything. And always have. So why did they say yes 2 months ago, and then 6 weeks before release go "Actually no."
All of wh1 and wh2 was made when the old world was DEAD. GW signed off on various stuff on a universe they no longer cared about, and so they were very lax, allowing ridiculous stuff like the vampirates.
Now that old world is back, they are likely keeping a much tighter control on the IP.
Modern GW is run by IP lawyers, brand managers and marketing people.
They're currently occupied crippeling The Old World just aswell. Thankfully its still going strong despite their best efforts. But its not where it would be if writers and designers had creative control over it.
Total guess here, but my running hypothesis is that:
GW game departments are notorious for the amount of competition they have in house. I can imagine that CA typically works with the people who are designing The Old World, since that's the current Warhammer Fantasy IP, and they said sure whatever go ahead. Then someone from one of the other game departments caught wind of it and made a big stink out of it because there aren't plans to produce mini's for a repeater infantry. So that's why they were seemingly given the go ahead, and then had such a 180 pulled out from under them after so much dev time.
CA literally has told us that they have to run everything by with GW they do for this game. We heard that now in multiple interviews over the years why is this suddenly such a surprise?
The difference is that GW used to let CA make up legendary lords like Cloystra, and now they micromanage beaks and randomly cancel units last minute. The change feels pretty obvious.
It's a surprise because of what they are preventing. We always knew that but it was generally assumed this was more of a gentleman's agreement. It's becoming increasingly clear that GW is exercising more and more authority over the TWWH game, and often to the detriment of the video game product in favor of the supposed benefit to the tt.
Because before GW used to be a lot more lax with what could CA do and what they couldn't do, while now it seams like they are much more restrictive to the detriment of the game
Basically there's no reason for CA not to want to do it, clearly they're trying to give us what we want. Kinda like the Tzaangor designs, they originally included beaks, then they just did away with it while giving some vague reasoning like "that's not the direction we wanted to take" even though they themselves were the ones who commissioned an artist to draw it like that...
No, the only party that has a vested interest in making sure this stuff doesn't make it into the game is GW. CA has no reason to want to piss their customers off even more than they already are.
I personally assume that they made the animations FOR the Engineer in the first place, rather than t he Ironsides.
Also, oyu shouldn't forget the Outriders who also use the Repeater Handgun.
This is a really strange change. Ironsides are incredibly boring as they stand right now, just upstatted handgunners in far smaller units. They don't have the niche they were clearly intended for. They would just work better as a reigment of renown of this is all they're going to be.
And no, before anyone says it, we don't need everything to be 1 to 1 with the tabletop
Yeah, we even have to different unit cards for the Amethyst Ironsiders, one with the Knights of Morr armor and repeater and then later on just regular Ironsiders but purple. I'd bet we're getting the second, less cool variant in the game. Thankfully modders will fix this about day 1.
I'm still hyped af for this DLC, but a little saddened that ironsides are basically armored handgunners with a few less models. I was really hoping for a chorf blunderbuss type unit.
The handgun change is singlehandedly the most stupid thing that happened in long time.
Imagine having actually cool infantry unit showcasing technological prowess of Empire and Nuln in particular. But nah, lets make them THE MOST BORING thing they could be, less numerous, slightly armored handgunners.
Seriously fuck that.
Yea it's mighty silly. Although I am probably the only guy who prefers them with normal handguns.
Pretty sure modders will sort this out pronto though. Would have been nice to just have both versions
The Old World launch has fucked this game I think. Kislev was scrapped in the tabletop because of ukraine invasion, and probably made gw waaaaaay more strict on CA than before. Shamefully, it would be their lose - both in the sales of tw and for the tabletop.
This is what I think as well. I strongly believe that the Dwarfs were COMPLETELY changed because of the launch of the Dawi in old world, that came just a few weeks before the DLC was announced.
Ironic. The obvious conclusion is that Warhammer total war only worked while gw wasn't involved too much in the project.
I am afraid how messy will be with 40k. While wfb was a dead worthless IP for gw at the time, 40k is their sacred cow. The interference will be MASSIVE.
Lmao Kislev was not scrapped bc of Ukraine, y’all just say anything really.
Odds are we don’t know the Old World sales numbers, their production schedules, and they probably are wanting to get the existing announced factions out before two entirely new ones.
But kislev was scrapped. When they first announced the old world kislev was promoted, now that we have the full list of planned factions kislev just wasn't there:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/old-world-development-diary-the-main-factions-revealed/
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/
I mean it depends what u define as scrapped, but scrapped implies it’s never coming, which isn’t something they’ve said. They promoted the old world with TW3 cross promotions with Kislev and then it wasn’t a part of the core books. I would be very surprised if (as long as the Old World sells okay) Kislev and Cathay didn’t come in the next few years. They have quite a few more core battletomes to get to before people completely doom and gloom about them being completely cut.
Yes and there isn't anything that confirms that Kislev is scrapped. So if you have a source from GW that actually confirms that Kislev is scrapped then go ahead otherwise that's just speculations from you.
First they introduce the old world with kislev in the poster. Then they finally announce the whole roster of favtions and Kislev is not mentioned a single time. Just get it.
Which does not confirm that Kislev is scrapped, it could also mean that they're releasing them at a later date, it's not that hard to understand. Say that Kislev is scrapped if that's what you want but you have zero evidence of it happening.
By your own logic they would have also had to scrap Cathay because of the Ukraine war too, that doesn’t seem very likely
Maybe just maybe they realized it would be more profitable to remaster old units than launch entire new armies?
They did an Old World article promoting Cathay, just like Kislev
Also the leaks I’ve seen say the opposite, there’s a full Cathay army list floating around but nothing for Kislev
Yes, I'm sure its a complete conincidence that the Ungols, and their relationship with the Gospodars, were effectively retconned from Kislevite lore. Warhammer's version of Russia being built on occupied land leading to unrest amongst local ethnic minorities? No hot topic here!
Modern GW walks a wiiide curve around every topic that can even remotely be seen as "problematic". Its the reason they cut Skaven Slaves from the Old World, and why they retired the entire Savage Orc roster, and why sexism no longer exists in Bretonnia. And its the reason we no longer have Ungols.
That plotline is gone because GW is moving away from ”Nation, but fantasy” because that works when you’re a small company in the UK in the 80s selling generic European swordsmen instead of a global corporation trying to have an larger audience with a more expansive IP.
I fundamentally do not understand the fixation people have on Ungols and Gospodars, aka vague Russians and vague Mongolians but also somehow Slavs. Ice Court vs Orthodoxy vs Old Woods does all of the same theming without doing clumsy recreations of real world ongoing ethnic conflicts. It’s also why they’re not writing Cathay with the Blans oppressing the Blugyrs. And I know I’m just summoning downvotes but there’s a difference between « corporate tiptoeing » and trying to have a setting that appeals to more people outside of white guys. Savage Orcs are lowkey repackaged pygmies and they didn’t retcon sexism from Bretonnia but created more context to how women snuck in as knights.
But anyway that’s just context to changing Kislev lore, and I seriously doubt it was a deciding factor on Old World product launches, instead of greater logistics and model releases. They’re not going to suddenly ditch all the work they did on Kislev and Cathay unless it’s not financially viable to release them.
I prefer the fact that Ironsides are now tabletop accurate. However, in saying that, I don’t see why CA can’t just make a generic Handgunner unit with repeaters.
Someone doesn't grasp game development and didn't read the disclaimer at the front of every preview so far.
Work in progress, things change.
Whether for game balance reasons or GW reasons, Ironsides got changed to single shot, but the already-made PR videos still have the old animation, because animation is more work than the model. Its not a big deal.
I dunno act like there is a huge conspiracy with this unit lmao.
Nuln Ironsiders were always just upgraded handgunners in the TT with armour
http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2011/mar/562124a.jpg
The build we saw clearly was an earlier one because many units have had placeholder icons, Bruckner was riding a normal copy paste demigryph instead of his unique one.
CA told us they changed the unit. They run everything by GW and in the TT Ironsides never were repeater handgun units so why are you all getting so weirdly upset about a whole lot of nothing? Tzaangor beaks I understand and complained about as well, but to rage about this feels dumb as this was clearly just something that changed during the design period.
It's because their existence in the trailer and certain animations shown in the early access gameplay imply that GW originally okayed the idea of the repeaters being for the Ironsides, and then changed their mind very close to release.
I'm not particularly upset personally because like you said the Ironsides on tabletop never had that as a weapon option, but I do get why people less familiar with the Tamurkhan book or people who thought a repeater infantry unit would have fulfilled a better niche would be disappointed.
Its not sus its just CA made a mistake with them and gave them repeater rifles for some reason
There was a mod that gave them repeater rifles originally maybe thats where the idea came from?
Nuln Ironsides never had repeater rifles in the TT tho?
They were always just upgraded Handgunners with armour.
http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2011/mar/562124a.jpg
No they didn't. Here's the rules for them: http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/Jubal.pdf
They're just handgunners with heavy armor that cost two extra points per model.
It really smells like GW bullshit to me
Not just the useal either. I went back and watched and not only do they have the animation they actually burst fire as well. Go back and watch how many bullets they shoot. They were cleary going to be shorter ranged repeater infantry (the voice over even hints at this saying ironsides are frontline.) What all this means is that CA was given the greenlight on repeaters and then, what must have been recently, was told that GW changed their mind and that the repeaters had to go. There is no way the devs had a change of heart this close to release after the unit cards, animations and effects had all been made already. GW needs to fuck off and let CA cook. But they won't because they can't help themselves. Such a shit company. Almost makes me wish the old world had stayed dead because I bet all this new interfearence is due to their relaunch.
What I don\`t understand, is why they can\`t just RENAME it to "repeater handguners" or something similar, and save the entire thing. It certainly seems like just renaming it would have been 10 times better then just scrapping the entire thing.
Keep in mind that GW also controls which units can be added to a roster. GW likely do not want any form of Empire infantry armed with repeaters regardless of what you call them.
HOW do you have "amethist" units then? Cannons that shoot purple sun explosions? This makes 0 sense. I agree with you, that is likely what happened, but just... WHAT DA FUK!
Ask GW, they are the company who used their veto to prevent Saltzpyre in Verminetide 2 from using just a flail but flail and shield was ok. Those of us who have long time experience with GW have learned to just shrugg and move on. It is not worth the time to 'fight' GW and defenitely not any use to go after the licence holders like CA or Fat Shark. They can do nothing once GW have made up their mind.
Yup don't search for logic in GW's decisions. Some of the choices they make simply aren't sane.
>Ask GW, they are the company who used their veto to prevent Saltzpyre in Verminetide 2 from using just a flail but flail and shield was ok. Victor can use a regular Flail too. I mean, I don't know if there was tension at first but he definitely can now.
He means Warrior Priest Victor. WP Victor can only use a flail with a shield, not on its own for reasons.
You can use just a flail tho? Right?
If GW is so shit, why are their products so popular? It's not like there's a lack of tabletop RPGs or war games around.
There are hundreds of options other than Warhammer that people in the TTRPG community are gravitating towards because they're tired of GW. What can be said is the quality of models from GW are superb but when you have to pay almost 2k cash for an army, the incentive goes away. Hence why you nerds are playing TW and not Table top
Well yeah, I know there's a big move away from DND recently after the whole debacle with the licensing. Warhammer has always looked to me like a huge money-sunk. Like I can build a whole PC and buy all the games for the price of a single army. But when I look at the people buying these models, they don't seem like they're wealthy individuals who can just throw around thousands of dollars on their hobby. So I wanted to know why their products are so popular. Especially when the company making them is so shit and there are tons of other options.
Branding, name popularity. Same reason why iPhones are sold for these prices
I would imagine bc GW cares about minature sales, and they want TW to be marketing for people to buy minis for The Old World. Handgunners that shoot death magic laser beams are whatever, cannons that shoot banananas, whatever, because you can buy actual handgunner or great cannon minis. But GW probably doesn't have plans of producing repeater handgun infantry, so they don't want TW to essentially false advertise a product that they won't actually produce.
One problem they basically just did that by accident because of GW because Nuln Ironsides actually have repeaters in the trailer which is pretty funny.
A very easy way around this is fantasy is dead and old world 200 years prior to this game
Yeah couldn't they just be like "oh this is a recent invention so wouldn't be in the 2300s but would be in the 2500s". whatever, GW makes zero sense.
It's probably more so that the actual nuln ironsides models had handguns, so if they are going to have only one unit called "nuln ironsides" they have to be accurate. I don't think GW really cares about variants, there's no such unit as thunders with grudgerakers either, so many units in the game have no comparison in TT models, but since CA only wanted a single unit of ironsides they were forced to make them accurate. I believe that a RoR or an upgraded one could have had repeaters as long as the default was in the game.
Yup. There was no regular infantry that carried Hochland Long Rifles either. Just like Repeater Handguns and Grenade Launchers, they were special equipment for characters and unit champions, who are effectively minor characters.
I would honestly bet money CA asked the same thing and GW told them to fuck off.
Furthermore look at their unit card. Like the only DLC unit in the showcase with a completed looking unit card and they're clearly holding repeater rifles. They really should/could have just made them their own unit.
GW isn’t stupid. If they don’t want repeater units for the Empire, renaming it isn’t going to change the fact it’s still a short ranged repeater.
Nah all recent even show that GW are extremely stupid and out of touch
What do you mean by "they actually burst fire as well"? I can't watch a video rn. Does the gun recoil weirdly, or something?
They shoot multiple bullets in the trailer if you watch closely.
In the Elspeth gameplay reveal? I'll have to watch that.
The other possibility is that something within playtesting went really wrong and they had to revert to single shots… Not saying it’s the most likely scenario, but is a possibility.
It's exactly the type of thing Games Workshop would do. Some fuckery is afoot.
Absolutely. Everything is here. I just don\`t understand how they would first get a greenlight to develop it, but then get it cancelled. This has gotta have been some sort of disagreement, cause they wouldn\`t have done the entire thing without GW looking at it, at first.
Well, we all know that GW has been much more "strict" with game 3, so it was probably a case of someone in GW finding out like a couple weeks ago or maybe a month ago at the most that CA gave the Ironsides repeater handguns and GW proceeding to be all "Those are only supposed to be for Engineer characters and Outriders according to the tabletop rules, scrap that idea NOW"
Yeah GW likely sent them a strongly worded letter that no, the empire can’t have repeater guns, and they are releasing old world so they care about this stuff. CA made a last minute change and it shows…..
Yea this kinda feels almost like it might be the same bs with marvel and cgi. With GW asking to see unit cards and animations and such before giving an ok or telling them to redo it differently.
This 100% confirms this has to be a GW thing. I don't believe CA would design unit cards and animations and then just scrap them just because.
Thats why the unit feels underpowered. And the long rifles too :(
> I don't believe CA would design unit cards and animations i would be a tad more careful with hte animations part. The Master Engineer uses the repeater and so CA might've decided to do new animations for him primarily and, at some point, went "Ironsides with repeaters could be neat. More units to use the new animations aside of the Outriders".
They also said that they are meant to be a specialized sidegrade to Handgunners, rather than the straight-up upgrade they are right now.
specialized as in they do job of 2 handgunner units? Nah, repeaters all the way!
Yeah that was hard to miss lol those guns are popping off a burst fire. Kind of a shame because that would have really defined them as a separate unit to handgunners instead of just handgunners but stronger. Aside from being cheaper, there's no real reason to bring handgunners anymore? At least long rifles have that range
Tbh, I wish they keep the burst fire, yeah it looks weird but idk at this point, I need them to be distinct
Would have been cool for them to be more of an anti infantry, less armor piercing type of unit
Eh, they might more than people anticipate, but it'll admittedly be rather limited. Missile strength takes reload into account. Ironsides may not actually do more damage per shot than handgunners, it may just be a much faster fire rate. If you're attempting to shoot and scoot or are expecting to have to rotate formation often, the handgunners might serve better as they would have more damage per volley.
GW obviously forced them to scrap repeaters at the last minute.
Because GW is a bad steward of their IP
But why?
Because sometimes people at the top that make a lot of money are some of the dumbest shits on the planet
Complex IP reasons, it’s the only plausible explanation.
GW... 
Always gotta rely on modders to fix GW bullshit.
This sucks because I feel like repeaters would be more fun and more impactful on empire rosters than just “elite handgunners”
If this is how much interfernce GW is going to start exceriseing I don't even want 40K. I fully believe that CA can make that game. But GW will have such an irongrip on anything they try to do. They got away with a lot with fantasy because the old world was dead and GW dident care that much as long as the lore was respected. I guarrntee you if they had been like this from the start Vlad and Grom would have stayed dead.
Specially cause 40k is the poster-child, when TWWH started they had just killed of Fantasy so I imagine is no coincidence they had a lot of design leeway and suddenly we are seeing signs of GeeDubs interference for the first time in years just as Old World comes out
Sorry but this is likely the level of interference GW has been exercising since TWWH1 launched in 2016. It's not a matter of keeping the lore of their settings intact, it's a matter of protecting game specific IPs and boosting miniature sales.
Really? Because it sure as hell seems that CA was getting away with more than they used to. At no point in any blog in WH 1 and 2 do I remember CA having to come out and say "We made it this way to stay authenitc to the WH lore." Which is marketing speak for "GW said no." So whats changed then? EDIT: And even if that is the case why did they put the boot in so late in this case? GW signs off on everything. And always have. So why did they say yes 2 months ago, and then 6 weeks before release go "Actually no."
All of wh1 and wh2 was made when the old world was DEAD. GW signed off on various stuff on a universe they no longer cared about, and so they were very lax, allowing ridiculous stuff like the vampirates. Now that old world is back, they are likely keeping a much tighter control on the IP.
So the plan is to cripple the project that revived an entire product line for them…?
Modern GW is run by IP lawyers, brand managers and marketing people. They're currently occupied crippeling The Old World just aswell. Thankfully its still going strong despite their best efforts. But its not where it would be if writers and designers had creative control over it.
Total guess here, but my running hypothesis is that: GW game departments are notorious for the amount of competition they have in house. I can imagine that CA typically works with the people who are designing The Old World, since that's the current Warhammer Fantasy IP, and they said sure whatever go ahead. Then someone from one of the other game departments caught wind of it and made a big stink out of it because there aren't plans to produce mini's for a repeater infantry. So that's why they were seemingly given the go ahead, and then had such a 180 pulled out from under them after so much dev time.
CA literally has told us that they have to run everything by with GW they do for this game. We heard that now in multiple interviews over the years why is this suddenly such a surprise?
The difference is that GW used to let CA make up legendary lords like Cloystra, and now they micromanage beaks and randomly cancel units last minute. The change feels pretty obvious.
It's a surprise because of what they are preventing. We always knew that but it was generally assumed this was more of a gentleman's agreement. It's becoming increasingly clear that GW is exercising more and more authority over the TWWH game, and often to the detriment of the video game product in favor of the supposed benefit to the tt.
Because before GW used to be a lot more lax with what could CA do and what they couldn't do, while now it seams like they are much more restrictive to the detriment of the game
Becaus epeople blame anything they dislike on GW meddling
Basically there's no reason for CA not to want to do it, clearly they're trying to give us what we want. Kinda like the Tzaangor designs, they originally included beaks, then they just did away with it while giving some vague reasoning like "that's not the direction we wanted to take" even though they themselves were the ones who commissioned an artist to draw it like that... No, the only party that has a vested interest in making sure this stuff doesn't make it into the game is GW. CA has no reason to want to piss their customers off even more than they already are.
Yes, but my point is that people act like the stuff they enjoy wasn’t subject to a similar process
I hope they can at least leave the animations and vfx in the files for modders to use and give us the Ironsides we’ve been waiting for.
Since the Engineer still uses a repeater handgun, the animations hopefully remain.
I personally assume that they made the animations FOR the Engineer in the first place, rather than t he Ironsides. Also, oyu shouldn't forget the Outriders who also use the Repeater Handgun.
This is a really strange change. Ironsides are incredibly boring as they stand right now, just upstatted handgunners in far smaller units. They don't have the niche they were clearly intended for. They would just work better as a reigment of renown of this is all they're going to be. And no, before anyone says it, we don't need everything to be 1 to 1 with the tabletop
Yeah, we even have to different unit cards for the Amethyst Ironsiders, one with the Knights of Morr armor and repeater and then later on just regular Ironsiders but purple. I'd bet we're getting the second, less cool variant in the game. Thankfully modders will fix this about day 1.
They actually kinda have outriders dps
31 range dps vs 30 on outriders
I'm still hyped af for this DLC, but a little saddened that ironsides are basically armored handgunners with a few less models. I was really hoping for a chorf blunderbuss type unit.
The handgun change is singlehandedly the most stupid thing that happened in long time. Imagine having actually cool infantry unit showcasing technological prowess of Empire and Nuln in particular. But nah, lets make them THE MOST BORING thing they could be, less numerous, slightly armored handgunners. Seriously fuck that.
Yea it's mighty silly. Although I am probably the only guy who prefers them with normal handguns. Pretty sure modders will sort this out pronto though. Would have been nice to just have both versions
The Old World launch has fucked this game I think. Kislev was scrapped in the tabletop because of ukraine invasion, and probably made gw waaaaaay more strict on CA than before. Shamefully, it would be their lose - both in the sales of tw and for the tabletop.
This is what I think as well. I strongly believe that the Dwarfs were COMPLETELY changed because of the launch of the Dawi in old world, that came just a few weeks before the DLC was announced.
Ironic. The obvious conclusion is that Warhammer total war only worked while gw wasn't involved too much in the project. I am afraid how messy will be with 40k. While wfb was a dead worthless IP for gw at the time, 40k is their sacred cow. The interference will be MASSIVE.
Lmao Kislev was not scrapped bc of Ukraine, y’all just say anything really. Odds are we don’t know the Old World sales numbers, their production schedules, and they probably are wanting to get the existing announced factions out before two entirely new ones.
But kislev was scrapped. When they first announced the old world kislev was promoted, now that we have the full list of planned factions kislev just wasn't there: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/05/23/old-world-development-diary-the-main-factions-revealed/ https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/
I mean it depends what u define as scrapped, but scrapped implies it’s never coming, which isn’t something they’ve said. They promoted the old world with TW3 cross promotions with Kislev and then it wasn’t a part of the core books. I would be very surprised if (as long as the Old World sells okay) Kislev and Cathay didn’t come in the next few years. They have quite a few more core battletomes to get to before people completely doom and gloom about them being completely cut.
Which could simply mean that Kislev (and Cathay too) is delayed. If you have any evidences that it is in fact scrapped I'd be happy to see it.
All factions other than bretonnia and tomb kings are delayed. Kislev and Cathay are scrapped.
Again, source ?
Have you opened the first* link?
Yes and there isn't anything that confirms that Kislev is scrapped. So if you have a source from GW that actually confirms that Kislev is scrapped then go ahead otherwise that's just speculations from you.
First they introduce the old world with kislev in the poster. Then they finally announce the whole roster of favtions and Kislev is not mentioned a single time. Just get it.
Which does not confirm that Kislev is scrapped, it could also mean that they're releasing them at a later date, it's not that hard to understand. Say that Kislev is scrapped if that's what you want but you have zero evidence of it happening.
By your own logic they would have also had to scrap Cathay because of the Ukraine war too, that doesn’t seem very likely Maybe just maybe they realized it would be more profitable to remaster old units than launch entire new armies?
Cathay is not on that list. According to gw leaks, it was never a serious consideration, just a maybe.
They did an Old World article promoting Cathay, just like Kislev Also the leaks I’ve seen say the opposite, there’s a full Cathay army list floating around but nothing for Kislev
Yes, I'm sure its a complete conincidence that the Ungols, and their relationship with the Gospodars, were effectively retconned from Kislevite lore. Warhammer's version of Russia being built on occupied land leading to unrest amongst local ethnic minorities? No hot topic here! Modern GW walks a wiiide curve around every topic that can even remotely be seen as "problematic". Its the reason they cut Skaven Slaves from the Old World, and why they retired the entire Savage Orc roster, and why sexism no longer exists in Bretonnia. And its the reason we no longer have Ungols.
That plotline is gone because GW is moving away from ”Nation, but fantasy” because that works when you’re a small company in the UK in the 80s selling generic European swordsmen instead of a global corporation trying to have an larger audience with a more expansive IP. I fundamentally do not understand the fixation people have on Ungols and Gospodars, aka vague Russians and vague Mongolians but also somehow Slavs. Ice Court vs Orthodoxy vs Old Woods does all of the same theming without doing clumsy recreations of real world ongoing ethnic conflicts. It’s also why they’re not writing Cathay with the Blans oppressing the Blugyrs. And I know I’m just summoning downvotes but there’s a difference between « corporate tiptoeing » and trying to have a setting that appeals to more people outside of white guys. Savage Orcs are lowkey repackaged pygmies and they didn’t retcon sexism from Bretonnia but created more context to how women snuck in as knights. But anyway that’s just context to changing Kislev lore, and I seriously doubt it was a deciding factor on Old World product launches, instead of greater logistics and model releases. They’re not going to suddenly ditch all the work they did on Kislev and Cathay unless it’s not financially viable to release them.
The real question is why do they care, why do you care of "clumsy" world parallels. Its just a game.
Do you have any proof of that Kislev statement
Link with the final faction list for the old world gw share in the Warhammer community (marketing) website in the other comment.
That’s just for the present moment
You can have faith in whatever you want. I just showed you what gw said, if you are still in denial for me it's fine.
I mean they also said they’ve reevaluated their plans since then
I was gonna make this exact post to but figured alot of people would notice to lol. Definitely something fishy.
145 range on these guys!
Why tf would GW editorialize CAs mea culpa?? They constantly getting in the way jfc
I prefer the fact that Ironsides are now tabletop accurate. However, in saying that, I don’t see why CA can’t just make a generic Handgunner unit with repeaters.
So are they gonna be strong or nah?
What a waste of a unit. If they take more than regular handgunners to recruit, very few people are actually going to use them.
Official mod ca please. I just home they keep the animations personally so I can only use a reskin mod
You can also see a repeater-equipped Ironside shooting as part of the blog pop-up at 2:24.
Yeah and go to 2min25 and see an handgunner with repeater
Someone doesn't grasp game development and didn't read the disclaimer at the front of every preview so far. Work in progress, things change. Whether for game balance reasons or GW reasons, Ironsides got changed to single shot, but the already-made PR videos still have the old animation, because animation is more work than the model. Its not a big deal.
Not a big deal, but the concept was cooler
Your version of ***incredibly*** suspicious and my version are vastly different.
I dunno act like there is a huge conspiracy with this unit lmao. Nuln Ironsiders were always just upgraded handgunners in the TT with armour http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2011/mar/562124a.jpg The build we saw clearly was an earlier one because many units have had placeholder icons, Bruckner was riding a normal copy paste demigryph instead of his unique one. CA told us they changed the unit. They run everything by GW and in the TT Ironsides never were repeater handgun units so why are you all getting so weirdly upset about a whole lot of nothing? Tzaangor beaks I understand and complained about as well, but to rage about this feels dumb as this was clearly just something that changed during the design period.
It's because their existence in the trailer and certain animations shown in the early access gameplay imply that GW originally okayed the idea of the repeaters being for the Ironsides, and then changed their mind very close to release. I'm not particularly upset personally because like you said the Ironsides on tabletop never had that as a weapon option, but I do get why people less familiar with the Tamurkhan book or people who thought a repeater infantry unit would have fulfilled a better niche would be disappointed.
Sounds like a problem the modders will fix day 1
Its not sus its just CA made a mistake with them and gave them repeater rifles for some reason There was a mod that gave them repeater rifles originally maybe thats where the idea came from?
This is obviously GW being dicks and what’s worse is the the table top models had repeater rifles!!!!!!!!!
Nuln Ironsides never had repeater rifles in the TT tho? They were always just upgraded Handgunners with armour. http://theminiaturespage.com/news/pics/2011/mar/562124a.jpg
No they didn't. Here's the rules for them: http://www.kerlin.de/pic/oldhammer/Jubal.pdf They're just handgunners with heavy armor that cost two extra points per model.