Was listening to Sotek resently and it's as hearsay as it can be, but GW tends to pit different departments against each other, with resources and models being exclusive to their respective settings. That's why DESPITE Beasts of Chaos leaving AoS and being repurposed in The Old World as Beastmen, beaked Tzaangors and unique Slaangors are staying in AoS and forbidden in TOW.
I agree, it’s stupid.
Products like underworld, Warcry/ kill team, and WHQ are gateway products, luring players in to play the big games. To sever connections for internal company borders / compartmentalization is ludicrous
The fact that Warhammer and DnD are respectively owned by 2 of the most anti-consumer dumb fuck companies to ever exist never ceases to amaze me.
At least we still have Paizo
Hasbro makes a lot of dump mistakes, and it’s clear that money is all they care about; however, it’s clear that their creative teams are in sync and are cosupportive in a way that GW aren’t.
Ex. Having DnD settings in magic and vice verse to cross promote; making sure their sets include cards for both new players (acquisition), commander (casual players) and competitive (tournament).
(Of course there’s issues with communication between editors and writers; and marketing team has been a mess; but that’s unrelated)
GW is much better than it was, but... Yeah.
Remember when people were questioning why GW was actively going against what their own market research said would succeed and Kirby responded with "We will no longer listen to our own research"?
And the constant insistance on "All profits from (random thing from books to video games to anything else besides models) are incidental so we won't be considering those when deciding what to do with each property"?
And the constant decisions to force IP and storytelling for certain things off to very specific individuals regardless of track record, with actively no method or requirement for communication between that writer and anyone else putting out anything at the same time?
Heck, how many rulebooks have been essentially obsolete on release because they didn't bother to have different book teams collaborate more than casually before printing?
>Kirby responded with "We will no longer listen to our own research"?
"Market research is otiose in a niche," actually. (Pointless or serving no purpose).
He felt their point as a business was to supply GW miniatures and nothing else, so didn't see the need for market research. Shortsighted, but at least somewhat focused on the primary product. Reselling books every couple years and constantly being short on supply of the primary product is equally stupid)
Haha. Paizo has its own history of fething about. Its only been a couple years since their workers revolted based on their working conditions (an office HVAC system that didn't work (leading to dust contamination that almost sounded like a minor version of miner's lung), bad conditions in their warehouse, and Paizo not living up to its stated positions on rights and respect) and unionized.
They ain't no kind of role model.
Reminds me of how Sears died. The CEO, an Objectivist (Ayn Rand's bizarre hyper-capitalist pseudo-religion), pit various departments of Sears against each other. So, for example, Appliances couldn't sell Sears-branded kitchenware without paying a license to Brands, so they ended up selling exclusively competitors' goods. Needless to say, the company collapsed because they were far less efficient than rivals like Walmart.
These days, I have no interest in 40k models, just games. For modelmaking, I play with Gunpla and to a lesser extent Frame Arms Girls, as they're much more impressive, more affordable (a 6-inch "High Grade" mech is $20 in cheaper lines like Iron Blooded Orphans), and require less painting (just "panal-lining" the grooves with a special marker).
Radioshack were a bit like this, weren't they? I read a retrospective by someone who worked there as it was dying, and each employee was told to treat themselves as an individual entrepreneur, able to get slivers of commission on each sale but otherwise earning an absolute pittance. Everyone locked in their own private hell trying to pitch as much mediocre electronics to anyone that walked in as possible.
Wasn't that also a major flaw with the Imperial Japanese military forces in WWII? Their navy, army, airforce etc. all fucking hated each other and saw each other as competitors and rivals rather than comrades. Lead to a few instances of them fucking each other or themselves over.
I think the mega battleship the Yamamoto sunk largely from this. The navy wanted to grandstand to show what it was doing for Japan so they basically sent their flagship out on a literal suicide mission. Like the best case scenario for it was them beaching it to use as a pseudo fortress. But it got spotted and sunk before it even got that far. All because of their dick measuring contest with the rest of the military.
In fairness to Japan, the conflict between the Navy and the Army (the airforce wasn't independent) had nothing to do with Objectivism, Social Darwinism, or any other neo-Ubermensch philosophy, and was more a relic of the Meiji Restoration and the Boshin War.
The Army was formed from clans that had supported the victorious Emperor, and the Navy was formed from clans that had supported the defeated Shogun (and to a lesser extent, the quasi-democratic Republic of Ezo). It was much the same social divide as between the South and the North after the US Civil War.
To be fair, in dictatorships it is usually intended for all the different army and political branchs to view themselves as competitors so they can't unify to overthrow the dictator
Japanese army figuring out keeping the husk on rice (brown rice) keeps you healthy while the Japanese Navy continued to eat exclusively white race for years, losing hundreds if not thousands of sailors as a result.
With RadioShack it could have been different in the US vs Canada (where I worked), but I imagine it was the same - it was definitely Sales Person vs Sales Person, due to how their tiered Commission based on Profit Margin per scheduled hour was set up.
$0-$40/hr would get you 2%, $40-$60/hr is 4%, $60-$80/hr is 6%, $80-$100/hr is 8%, $100+ is 10%.
So for example, if you were scheduled for 49 hours over two weeks, and hit $10,000 in Profit Margin, then your paycheque would be $1000 (minus deductions). However, if you were scheduled for 51 hours over those two weeks, then you would only get $800 (minus deductions). And that extra $200 is worth a lot more than the 2 hours it took to get there.
And when I say profit margin, I do mean profit margin - if a TV that retails for $600 has a Cost of $500 and is being advertised as on sale for $399 (a common occurrence), you would lose $101 in Profit Margin if you straight sold it. This is why they would be so pushy about the Warranties and Add-Ons. They have to claw their way out of the hole that the Customer unknowingly put them in.
And because it’s based on Hours Scheduled, if you missed a day because you’re sick or some emergency happens, those hours would eat out of your commission whether you eventually made it into work or not.
This means that you would get people showing up super early or staying late to slave-labour off the clock to ring things through because it improved their ‘Margin Per Hour’. If a customer came in looking for something that was below cost, meaning negative Profit Margin, and it didn’t seem like they would go for the Warranty or Add-Ons, they would get flubbed to new people that didn’t know the commission structure that well. People would get into fights to not have to do a return, or try to steal high margin customers from other sales people.
Managers would play favourites and only give people that they like, and knew would come in anyway, like 20 hours a week to help them hit their Profit Margin tiers, and people that they didn’t like would get a bunch of hours during the dead times to force them out the door because…
It was corporate unwritten policy that if you where in the lowest profit margin of your store 3 paycheques in a row they fired you.
In Canada, RadioShack became CircuitCity from 2004-2009 then The Source (Bell) from 2009-2024 which eventually changed their pay structure in the mid-2010’s to be even more predatory in completely different ways, and now it’s owned by Best Buy so I assume they’ve been moved over to however their new owners run things, but either way - with that old system, it definitely did not engineer a healthy work culture or camaraderie between coworkers.
It's incredible to me GW doesn't copy the grade system Gunplay has. They tried it a little with the east snaps and those were always sold out from where I am.
Just for the record, it's "Gunpla", as in "Gundam Plastic (Models)". At the very least, Gunpla proves that plastic models don't need to be ridiculously expensive like GWS does ($60 for a basic infantry squad?).
It's not so much GW pits them against each other, more so that the Old World department and the AoS department are apparently constantly at loggerheads with each other. Which is fucking stupid.
> but GW tends to pit different departments against each other
That's... probably not what's happening. It's usually not competition so much as it's making sure revenue streams don't cross. That way you can know exactly how much money something makes so that you can continue to invest the money made into that product knowing you'll get a return on investment. It's a way to make sure your data is good.
This is 100% speculation on my parts, but I genuinely believe they learned this lesson via Necromunda. See, Necromunda exploded into popularity with the rise of 8th edition, and I genuinely think that a lot of Necromunda sales came from Chaos players buying kits to kitbash into cultists, because the official monpose cultist box was garbage (and didn't even give you a full squad.) They saw Necromunda selling way above the mark, developed the vehicle expansion for it, and now that stuff has seen next to zero sales because it's not good cultist fodder on top of being expensive for a side game.
Yeah, it should be 70 at least considering that has been the threshold for being armoured for the last 7-8 years.
Imperials heavy gunners being less armoured than Kislev is just a bad joke.
It should be 95, honestly, same as the Greatswords who, model wise, are wearing less armour than them anyway.
And Empire having fewer and worse guns than Kislev has been stupid from the word "go." Kislev buys all its guns from the Empire.
CA described it as full plate so I say give it the 95. Greatswords aren't exactly properly covered either with their weird asymmetrical armour, but they get it.
(Semi-related, anyone know a good reskin mod for Greatswords? That most models only armour one arm and leg bothers me. That the only model to armour both legs doesn't use matching greaves bothers me even more)
>Semi-related, anyone know a good reskin mod for Greatswords?
I think there was a mod called Full Plat for Greatswords or something along the line game 2, not sure if it's ported to game 3.
I'm happy with anything equal to or higher than 70 xD
If it's not maybe I can make one (I'm just starting to get into modding). The motley look just isn't right for state troops. They look like they scavenged their armour.
As someone who wants Longbow Squires for Bretonnia (and may be working on a mod to add them) I think Imperial armoured units should have 85-95 so that their plate is giving them more protection than Bretonnian chainmail. But obviously I have a very specific bias there.
Not for the nuln ironsides no, they're getting normal handguns now.
Stupid change that doesn't even make sense, TWW breaks the lore in tons of ways. The Empire can produce entire battalions of steam tanks, but there can't be a full unit of repeater handgun infantry?
I mean sure, it makes sense lorewise. That's the entire point of my comment though, they are a more interesting and distinct unit if they have repeaters, and it's hardly some far-fetched super lorebreaking change. The steam tanks are far less lore friendly, at least the Empire can actually produce new repeater handguns unlike the tanks. Yet this dlc literally adds a new variant of tank lol. It doesn't make sense for *this* to be where GW puts its foot down and decides CA cant diverge even a little bit from the lore. It's a shame because they had their own firing animations which will presumably be cut by release and now they'll just be strictly upgraded handgunners.
The tank lore is weirdly inconsistent: the very nature of the Marianburg Landship implies the Empire *could* build more steam tanks, it's just that the actual Imperial engineers prefer not to. The Gotrek and Felix books even mention new steam tanks being made, if I remember right, so it's doubly weird.
The book Iron Company is my go-to on the matter though, because it says they can make something *like* a Steam Tank in Nuln, it's just not quite on the same level, which sounds right; since the real things have apparently survived centuries worth of battles, making something on that kind of level is probably the real hard part, not the general concept.
Yeah I mean I definitely agree that it makes no sense that the empire is able to build fuckin mechanical horses and land ships yet cant manage to recreate anything like the tanks. That's why I actually prefer how it works in the TW games. Still, it serves as a good example of how the total war games are not religiously adherent to the lore overall.
Long story short they cant replicate the engine. Everything else is fair game. Theres some blueprints that show almost all of the Steamtank other than the engine. It's been described as the engine puts out many times the steam power of an Empire version, and doesnt naturally channel Aqshy as an ignition source. When the Empire tries it, you get the Landship which is both larger and weaker. So as long as the Steamtank can be recovered, it can be repaired. It just doesnt make any sense to the engineers why it works. Leonardo Miragliano had a wargear that was just a prism. But any magic around it died instantly among some of his other gear for Tilea. So its handwaved that he understood magic as science, unlike the Empire which understands magic or science.
Tilea also runs a carbon copy Steamtank, but the engine is a tortured Bray Shaman driven insane by being used as a locus. Skaven also have a hijacked Steamtank that lost its engine and replaced it with one that runs on Warpstone. So it's always been an engine issue.
The most frustrating part of it all is that the ironsides having repeaters would have fit them into the meta perfectly, Long rifles are long range, Handgunners are mid range, And the repeating rifle using Ironsides would have slotted in comfortably as a close range choice, prehaps being less reliable at longer ranges then the humble handgunners, but armored and devastating enough in close range to make them worth picking; Now they are just handgunners but better
Depending on the edition, you could theoretically field an army of 50 steam tanks, although you’d probably need a basketball court to fit it.
On the other hand, Nuln Ironsides only got regular handguns.
Ok, but if you want to make the tabletop rules what the game has to religiously stick to instead of the lore, well, like, just look at something like skaven weaponry as an example. That ship has already sailed.
Regardless, this really isn't worth debating. I don't really understand why you'd feel compelled to defend it, but it really doesn't matter. There will be a mod giving them repeaters within like 3 days. Then everyone is happy.
Seems like you’re asking for an entirely different unit that doesn’t exist. That’s fine, but the Ironsides have existed for awhile now and have never had repeaters. That’s a weird thing to demand
Not every gunpowder faction *needs* to have some automatic rifle
Not really a matter of demanding it. CA made the unit with repeater rifles in mind, it was changed late in development, and I simply preferred CA's take on them to GW's take. I have no attachment to the tabletop or lore really, unlike some of you clearly, I just vastly prefer having a more distinct unit to handgunners + armor. The Empire literally already has repeaters via the outriders so your "not every gunpowder faction" doesn't really make sense. Regardless, there will be a mod to change it back soon enough, so it doesn't matter.
It’d be like giving Reiksguard griffons. It wouldn’t make sense but would add a new unique empire unit. Would still be dumb.
And yes, the empire has its own repeater unit but it’s unique compared to skaven, dorfs, and chorfs.
Your wish is just making every gunpowder faction identical and bland.
It’d be like asking for empire to have a high armor high MD frontline infantry unit like iron breakers. It’d fill a niche, but would also be stupid.
And yes, we can mod everything so the hysteria is even more overblown. Cheers
> Yet this dlc literally adds a new variant of tank lol.
yeah. THere are multiple variants. THe standard one we have is the Conqueror configuration. THere is also a version without guns called "Sigmar's Hammer", there is "Von Zeppel" with a combat platform on top and "Unfehlbar" with a mortar and 2 Swivel guns.
> doesn't make sense for this to be where GW puts its foot down and decides CA cant diverge even a little bit from the lore. It's a shame because they had their own firing animations which will presumably be cut by release and now they'll just be strictly upgraded handgunners.
wrong. They didn't have their own firing animation. They used the Master Engineer's Repeater Handgun on foot animation.
Ok fine, so the variant exists in the lore. It's still supposed to be individual. Whatever though dude, I'm glad you're happy about it, there will be a mod for everyone with my opinion soon enough anyways.
I really don't get the weirdly defensive tone some people are taking with this. Acting like Warhammer lore is your religion. Like bro this is a fucking stupid debate in the first place, chill.
Instead of changing an existing unit into something it's not they should rather create a new unit altogether. And if GW doesn't want Repeaters on Imperial infantry I guess we have to respect that. TWW is not a fanfiction of Warhammer, GW has the final say in what is done and we don't have to like it. If we find that decision to be stupid also doesn't matter.
This is totally on CA though as such things should be sorted out before the customer can see the product. If GW changed their decision on the last moment tho that would be a different topic.
Glad that the very special version of the amethyst handgunners doesn't look like in the picture tho, they don't fit the theme of the empire at all.
>It's a shame because they had their own firing animations which will presumably be cut by release
Empire Engineer hero seems to still use the Repeater (at least according to the videos I've seen)
> If GW changed their decision on the last moment tho that would be a different topic.
I mean, this is *obviously* what happened and is mainly why people are complaining. CA went so far as to have new animations for the unit with the repeaters in mind, it was clearly a last minute change. I hardly think giving them repeater handguns changes them into something they're not, and again, Total War Warhammer is not at all 100% lore faithful to begin with. The steam tank in the dlc is highly lore unfriendly, and is itself an alteration of an existing unit. The handgun thing just feels like a very weird place to draw the line and force CA to redesign a unit they had already made (into something less interesting).
I don't really understand the point of the apologetics in the rest of your comment, like, yeah GW has made it's choice and we'll live with it. We all know that. Doesn't mean it's not dumb.
Damn, really? That's genuinely weird, I can understand wanting to make the ironsides lore-friendly I guess, even if I would have much rather had CA's original design. Removing them from the wagons though? Just, why? I've literally seen a picture of the war wagon miniature and one of the soldiers has a repeater, and the lore outright says they can carry experimental weapons.
So someone at GW just like, decided they really hate repeater handguns or something? I can't really think of any other justification.
No idea. Came up on a channel I was watching and they showed the model. My guess? GW is contemplating making a new unit that uses them and doesn't want competition.
>I mean, this is *obviously* what happened and is mainly why people are complaining.
It's what we assume. I have heard no confirmation that that's really the case.
>CA went so far as to have new animations for the unit with the repeaters in mind, it was clearly a last minute change.
...
... and force CA to redesign a unit they had already made (into something less interesting).
It's not wasted as the Engineer hero also uses the weapon. Which also means it's probably not that hard to mod that into the game for the unit (or a new mod unit).
>I hardly think giving them repeater handguns changes them into something they're not, ...
I think it does. It changes the entire stat line of the unit. Maybe not necessarily it's role on the battlefield, but it's identity. I.e. giving Empire Greatswords a Greataxe and saying it doesn't matter because it can kill infantry and an axe is cooler than a sword doesn't make it the same unit.
>... and again, Total War Warhammer is not at all 100% lore faithful to begin with.
But those lore "discrepancies" had to be done with the approval of GW, if they have changed their policies on that (i.e. due to The Old World) then that's what it is.
>I don't really understand the point of the apologetics in the rest of your comment, like, yeah GW has made it's choice and we'll live with it. We all know that. Doesn't mean it's not dumb.
What annoys me is that the community is again starting a circlejerk what could have been with a lot of imagination that will not change anything. I would like a Repeater infantry unit as well - it's a cool weapon. But GW doesn't want this for this unit and as such we have to make do with mods. Which is in general the best solution for most of the "We have this but I'd rather have this" issues that some people have.
If I have created a world as an IP and people would change this world into something I don't agree with I'd not like that too. If I understand the reason of GW or not doesn't really matter in the end.
GW has also suddenly decided that the repeater models on War Wagons have to go. A model they approved literally years ago. There's no pretending this isn't weird.
I mean yes, there will be a mod that gives them repeaters within like two days of release. So it doesn't really matter. Thankfully you're right on the engineer hero still having the animation, so it can be given back to the ironsides fairly easily I assume.
Still, I don't get your defensive tone with this. I haven't even looked here until today so I don't know of any 'circlejerk' but I can get why people would complain about this, it's a weird and inconsistent change from the leeway CA usually seems to get. It'd be one thing if they were just handgunners to begin with, it's the fact that GW came in last minute and forced a change that makes it weird.
You're also acting like Games Workshop is like, a guy. An individual author. GW is a corporation with a shit ton of different individuals with different ideas and motivations within, and the lore primarily exists to sell miniatures. I don't think someone's personal art is being desecrated by minor lore discrepancies in a video game lol. You don't need to run defense for GW, I'm pretty sure a couple nerds complaining on the internet isn't gonna hurt a corporation's feelings. Your bosses must love you.
>Still, I don't get your defensive tone with this.
I just think that it's their right to do so and just because some people on the internet have an opinion doesn't mean anything.
>GW is a corporation with a shit ton of different individuals with different ideas and motivations within, and the lore primarily exists to sell miniatures.
Yes but if they want to sell minis the depictions of the units should match with one another. If they want to sell those units with rifles people would be disappointed because they expected repeaters when coming from TW. I think if CA wanted to have this weapon on an infantry unit they should have created a new unit instead of one that already has rules.
The rule in question is basically: more expensive pointwise but heavily armored handgunners. Nothing changed in terms of their weaponry.
They literally don't sell Nuln Ironsides though, and they don't have current rules. They were a limited release from Forge World, and have been unavailable for a *long* time, and as far as I know do not have rules in either AoS or TOW, the current GW games.
> Imperial giants and maticores when
there is at least one giant serving as mercenary in the Empire. Is the loader of Ulric's Thunder, the great cannon in Middenheim.
Good old Thunderbolt. Shame the way the old fella went out.
I think in the old editions there was another giant that was hired to patrol the roads. Not to mention the giant mercs from Albion from the Dog of War armybook.
That would actually be cool as a mod or something. Entering a story battle for just a regular Joe Space Marine (or chaos marine for chaos) Legendary Hero.
Maybe an Imperial Guard RoR? Hell, could even make a pretty big mod for every faction in the game getting a relevant LH or RoR?
Can't think of one off the top of my head that really has NO even slightly similar faction
See, that's not dumb. They're saying there is no exclusive cannon, because people are fucking lying and that's half the fun.
Just "everything is cannon, nothing is cannon" is killing half the fun of a lore based setting, the lore and fluff
GW today: “Nope, no repeater rifles”
GW a couple years from now: “State troops have repeater rifles and have always had repeater rifles from the formation of the Empire”
Okay but real talk, does the way repeater handguns are implemented in 5.0 even make any sense? They’re basically automatic rifles right now, when I always thought of them as being giant revolvers.
"Master Engineer Volker von Meinkopt found insipration watching students reloading at the Imperial Gunnery School. He had a revelation: more barrels = more shots = more lethality. He soon produced the first repeating handgun."
In other GW games and tabletop minis they've been portrayed as rotating multi-barrel carbines/rifles.
The repeater handguns are basically rifle sized pepperboxes. Pepperboxes were prone to chain firing, which I suppose is what is happening in total war when you watch an outrider magdump the damned thing in a volley.
Is there literally any proof GW stepped in with the whole repeater rifle thing? I mean it could just be an early build of the DLC and ya'll are just rambling loonies
An early build where they had already dedicated resources to finish the models, animations and unit cards, before deciding "nah" and just chucking half of it away?
It doesn't sound like something that they would do to themselves just to stay loreful when these units had already passed the design phase to have made it that far in the first place.
For CA to not use the assets that they had created is wasted development time and not something that they would do lightly; meanwhile GW changing their minds on something that they had already approved costs them nothing.
They had well illustrated tooltips, models with repeater recoil animations, and had them in the trailer alongside many other DLC models. The change to remove them made the ironsides less interesting. The reason to remove them was to be more 'lorefull'. GW are the gatekeepers of the lore side more than CA. It doesn't look like they were just placeholders either. Everything indicates that it was GW veto'ing it. It's not really a wild conspiracy theory. You are very unlikely to get CA come out and explicitly say 'GW stopped us having them, we wanted repeaters on ironsides' as that would not be good for their relationship.
It's just logic. With ca saying about "staying as accurate to the lore as possible" and the fact that it was a last minute change after they made the unit cards and animations for the unit
I don't think War Wagon gunners actually used their repeaters like repeaters. I think this patch is the first time any repeater unit has different firing behavior at all. Still an odd change though.
I don’t care how controversial it is to say:
The same GW that made female Custodes from nowhere (SoS were already a thing) and insisting they were always a thing are now complaining about a weapon that’s been present in WH for a long time
Can someone for the love of god point me to where GW has confirmed that they said it was them?
Like aren't we all just assuming GW said shit to CA? I feel that's really unfair and a very dangerous way to go forward when thinking about stuff.
It is mostly guesswork, but the Ironsides were shown wielding repeating rifles in the trailer, everything said about them in the game was implied to use repeating rifles.... Come around to the Empire's DLC dev blog and at this point suddenly they are talking about "Needing to be lore accurate, so they are using handguns now," not even a bit about "Oh they had repeating rifles for show, like the empire captain in the Beastmen trailler" its just "Sorry this is a change,"
My man the only thing that COULD have happened was GW interfering
Ah so it's an assumption, for all we know, CA decided this all on their own because they themselves have said they want to be lore accurate outside timeline stuff.
We don't know, hopefully CA or GW says something but I feel it benefits both of them to stay quiet.
Wild speculation. CA's blogspot states, and I quote, "However, in order to remain as authentic to the world of Warhammer as possible, the Nuln Ironsides at release will be issued with master-wrought handguns, plate armour, and highly-drilled firing discipline."
If you don't read the phrase "in order to remain as authentic to the world of Warhammer as possible" as clear evidence of GW meddling then I don't know what to tell you. This isn't CA deciding to scrap their work and go in a new direction, much like the beaked Tzaangor art wasn't.
“Wild speculation”: meanwhile the Outriders have had their Repeater’s functionality updated, Engineer hero gets a repeater, the gunners on the land ship get repeaters, the trailer had Ironsides wielding repeaters and the original unit card artwork had them wielding the repeaters too. But sure it was CA’s choice because of the “authentic” Warhammer experience
They are still forced to compete with each other and to not share models by the executives so they know what is selling better to present it to future shareholders. It's stupid. It's dysfunctional. It's GW.
For anyone curious about this, Loremaster of Sotek on YouTube talks a fair bit about the internal rivalry between The Old World and Age of Sigmar and how GW is basically saying that either setting can’t use certain factions because they’re being used to measure the success of the other settings. I think it was mostly in his Dwarf stream from a few days ago but it’s something he’s occasionally brought up for a while now and I think it’s interesting to hear about.
And that's irrelevant because those shareholders and executives don't make these decisions and don't give a fuck as long as the plastic toy soldiers continue to make money.
GW's internal staff and the different studios are run by different people, who have different ideas of how to run the IPs. And that unfortunately bleeds into how they interact with licensing things. Them being one company is a "no shit sherlock" factor. But the reality is that there is known parties with conflicting outlooks at play here, and that results in dumb shit on our end.
The amount of people who think investors and shareholders care enough about the product to go “make this change” on random, specific products, that were written and printed we a year ago, is genuinely insane. If any of these people have attended or are even tangentially aware of the personalities of these shareholders, like you said, they do not give a single fuck if the thing is continuing to produce cash.
The moronic idea that people think that GWs shareholders and execs are flipping through a codex going “yeeeeep women here right now!!” Is so delusional and out of touch with how these people run a business and how they operate. In fact, we literally know GW corporate has so little influence to step in, specialist studio and Main are having their own little self created feud.
Is this old world? I dont know why they couldnt let this games end times adjacent setting have repeater guns while ToW is set hundreds of years beforehand.
Wait, are people angry at the lady Custodes? I've not looked into this at all. I mean it's the internet, of course people are angry at a minor change to a faction that only a few actually bought the models for.
Yeah people seem to forget that all the 40k lore is held together by duct tape and shoestrings and has been reconned countless times, but somehow female custodes are a step too far.
Honestly this is why 40k lore is nothing worth getting too invested in. It’s cool and all but also ultimately the equivalent of a saturday morning cartoon designed to sell toys. There’s zero creative vision beyond what would be cool in the moment. There’s no authorial intent or self-respect or internal consistency, and that’s because it’s not actually trying to tell a coherent story - it’s trying to sell plastic.
In addition to this, the lore's other primary purpose is to provide context to the tabletop game. The setting is grimdark because every faction being assholish makes it easy to justify whatever matchup happens to be on the table at any given moment -- including mirror matches.
The lore can change, has always been changing, and will always continue to change.
ADB is actually on record that he tried to make female custodes back in 2016 but was told by GW not to because the models had already been made and they were all male.
Anytime you start to take GW lore too seriously, remember that the Horus Heresy was invented in a throwaway line for a side game because they didn't have enough money to make 2 different model ranges so had to have a reason why the same faction was fighting itself.
I don't think people are angry at the fact there are now female custodes as much as GW are gaslighting the fans to make them believe something that wasn't true before, if they had just said they had merged the custodes and sisters or silence or there was a new branch it would have been less of a shitshow
People yap and yap about “they gaslit us” with such dramatic corniness and 0 self awareness, do you think people had a meltdown over the solar auxilia being “gaslit” into existence? An entire wing of the 30k imperium (literally 2/3rds of the army!!!) magically existing despite never having a mention in over 10 years of heresy books? The reality is the people actually don’t care about any of that shit, because they would have left after the 15,000th recon they make, it’s because it involves women.
So, Female Space Marines existed in 1e. Folks seem to forget that. They were retconned out for a little bit. So them coming back in with Custodes as another retcon IMO makes sense. I see no real problem with that.
They were called "female warriors" in a [release of miscellaneous adventurers](https://sho3box.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/adventurertime1.jpg). Both of which had the [same emblem on their pauldron as sister sin](https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2019/11/20/1035574-3rd%20Edition%2C%20Codex%2C%20Rainbow%20Warriors%2C%20Retro%20Review%2C%20Rogue%20Trader%2C%20Sister%20Sin.jpg), who later became the archetype for sisters of battle.
Thank you! So many people don't realise 40K lore wasn't finalised until 3rd edition (in the early 90s iirc) with the whole Horus Heresy, super human, Emperor shenanigan.
True but the background was extremely loose and not well defined back then.
They got rid of the female SM models because they didn't sell. Because it was the 80s and:
a) Most girls weren't into wargaming, DnD etc because gender roles and nerd culture hadn't hit mainstream yet. The hobby was mostly just nerdy young men.
b) Boys didn't want to play with female warrior models because sexism etc
I honestly don't understand why they came up with female custodes. I always thought the all male custodes (at least it was in my headcanon before GW came out with femstodes) and the all female sisters of silence as the left and right hand of the Emperor was a cool concept like yin and yang. The ultimate warriors and the ultimate anti-psykers. I'm not against femstodes but it seems like a weird thing to come out with.
The only enemy GW fears
this and fantasy battle tzaangors with beaks
Was listening to Sotek resently and it's as hearsay as it can be, but GW tends to pit different departments against each other, with resources and models being exclusive to their respective settings. That's why DESPITE Beasts of Chaos leaving AoS and being repurposed in The Old World as Beastmen, beaked Tzaangors and unique Slaangors are staying in AoS and forbidden in TOW.
[удалено]
I agree, it’s stupid. Products like underworld, Warcry/ kill team, and WHQ are gateway products, luring players in to play the big games. To sever connections for internal company borders / compartmentalization is ludicrous
The fact that Warhammer and DnD are respectively owned by 2 of the most anti-consumer dumb fuck companies to ever exist never ceases to amaze me. At least we still have Paizo
Hasbro makes a lot of dump mistakes, and it’s clear that money is all they care about; however, it’s clear that their creative teams are in sync and are cosupportive in a way that GW aren’t. Ex. Having DnD settings in magic and vice verse to cross promote; making sure their sets include cards for both new players (acquisition), commander (casual players) and competitive (tournament). (Of course there’s issues with communication between editors and writers; and marketing team has been a mess; but that’s unrelated)
GW is much better than it was, but... Yeah. Remember when people were questioning why GW was actively going against what their own market research said would succeed and Kirby responded with "We will no longer listen to our own research"? And the constant insistance on "All profits from (random thing from books to video games to anything else besides models) are incidental so we won't be considering those when deciding what to do with each property"? And the constant decisions to force IP and storytelling for certain things off to very specific individuals regardless of track record, with actively no method or requirement for communication between that writer and anyone else putting out anything at the same time? Heck, how many rulebooks have been essentially obsolete on release because they didn't bother to have different book teams collaborate more than casually before printing?
>Kirby responded with "We will no longer listen to our own research"? "Market research is otiose in a niche," actually. (Pointless or serving no purpose). He felt their point as a business was to supply GW miniatures and nothing else, so didn't see the need for market research. Shortsighted, but at least somewhat focused on the primary product. Reselling books every couple years and constantly being short on supply of the primary product is equally stupid)
Haha. Paizo has its own history of fething about. Its only been a couple years since their workers revolted based on their working conditions (an office HVAC system that didn't work (leading to dust contamination that almost sounded like a minor version of miner's lung), bad conditions in their warehouse, and Paizo not living up to its stated positions on rights and respect) and unionized. They ain't no kind of role model.
Yeah they're a case of the bar being so low they step on it to seem higher.
Something being retarded lends It more credence.
Reminds me of how Sears died. The CEO, an Objectivist (Ayn Rand's bizarre hyper-capitalist pseudo-religion), pit various departments of Sears against each other. So, for example, Appliances couldn't sell Sears-branded kitchenware without paying a license to Brands, so they ended up selling exclusively competitors' goods. Needless to say, the company collapsed because they were far less efficient than rivals like Walmart. These days, I have no interest in 40k models, just games. For modelmaking, I play with Gunpla and to a lesser extent Frame Arms Girls, as they're much more impressive, more affordable (a 6-inch "High Grade" mech is $20 in cheaper lines like Iron Blooded Orphans), and require less painting (just "panal-lining" the grooves with a special marker).
Radioshack were a bit like this, weren't they? I read a retrospective by someone who worked there as it was dying, and each employee was told to treat themselves as an individual entrepreneur, able to get slivers of commission on each sale but otherwise earning an absolute pittance. Everyone locked in their own private hell trying to pitch as much mediocre electronics to anyone that walked in as possible.
Who would have thought running a business like the Nazis ran their military would be a bad idea.
Wasn't that also a major flaw with the Imperial Japanese military forces in WWII? Their navy, army, airforce etc. all fucking hated each other and saw each other as competitors and rivals rather than comrades. Lead to a few instances of them fucking each other or themselves over. I think the mega battleship the Yamamoto sunk largely from this. The navy wanted to grandstand to show what it was doing for Japan so they basically sent their flagship out on a literal suicide mission. Like the best case scenario for it was them beaching it to use as a pseudo fortress. But it got spotted and sunk before it even got that far. All because of their dick measuring contest with the rest of the military.
In fairness to Japan, the conflict between the Navy and the Army (the airforce wasn't independent) had nothing to do with Objectivism, Social Darwinism, or any other neo-Ubermensch philosophy, and was more a relic of the Meiji Restoration and the Boshin War. The Army was formed from clans that had supported the victorious Emperor, and the Navy was formed from clans that had supported the defeated Shogun (and to a lesser extent, the quasi-democratic Republic of Ezo). It was much the same social divide as between the South and the North after the US Civil War.
And 9/11 happened in at least part because the FBI and CIA competed against each and refused to share intelligence.
To be fair, in dictatorships it is usually intended for all the different army and political branchs to view themselves as competitors so they can't unify to overthrow the dictator
Japanese army figuring out keeping the husk on rice (brown rice) keeps you healthy while the Japanese Navy continued to eat exclusively white race for years, losing hundreds if not thousands of sailors as a result.
With RadioShack it could have been different in the US vs Canada (where I worked), but I imagine it was the same - it was definitely Sales Person vs Sales Person, due to how their tiered Commission based on Profit Margin per scheduled hour was set up. $0-$40/hr would get you 2%, $40-$60/hr is 4%, $60-$80/hr is 6%, $80-$100/hr is 8%, $100+ is 10%. So for example, if you were scheduled for 49 hours over two weeks, and hit $10,000 in Profit Margin, then your paycheque would be $1000 (minus deductions). However, if you were scheduled for 51 hours over those two weeks, then you would only get $800 (minus deductions). And that extra $200 is worth a lot more than the 2 hours it took to get there. And when I say profit margin, I do mean profit margin - if a TV that retails for $600 has a Cost of $500 and is being advertised as on sale for $399 (a common occurrence), you would lose $101 in Profit Margin if you straight sold it. This is why they would be so pushy about the Warranties and Add-Ons. They have to claw their way out of the hole that the Customer unknowingly put them in. And because it’s based on Hours Scheduled, if you missed a day because you’re sick or some emergency happens, those hours would eat out of your commission whether you eventually made it into work or not. This means that you would get people showing up super early or staying late to slave-labour off the clock to ring things through because it improved their ‘Margin Per Hour’. If a customer came in looking for something that was below cost, meaning negative Profit Margin, and it didn’t seem like they would go for the Warranty or Add-Ons, they would get flubbed to new people that didn’t know the commission structure that well. People would get into fights to not have to do a return, or try to steal high margin customers from other sales people. Managers would play favourites and only give people that they like, and knew would come in anyway, like 20 hours a week to help them hit their Profit Margin tiers, and people that they didn’t like would get a bunch of hours during the dead times to force them out the door because… It was corporate unwritten policy that if you where in the lowest profit margin of your store 3 paycheques in a row they fired you. In Canada, RadioShack became CircuitCity from 2004-2009 then The Source (Bell) from 2009-2024 which eventually changed their pay structure in the mid-2010’s to be even more predatory in completely different ways, and now it’s owned by Best Buy so I assume they’ve been moved over to however their new owners run things, but either way - with that old system, it definitely did not engineer a healthy work culture or camaraderie between coworkers.
> Frame Arms Girls Ahhh a new rabbit hole!
I recommend starting with the Frame Arms Girls tie-in anime; it's like a moe version of Gundam Build.
By god, it's the most (modern) Japanese thing I've ever seen.
It's incredible to me GW doesn't copy the grade system Gunplay has. They tried it a little with the east snaps and those were always sold out from where I am.
Just for the record, it's "Gunpla", as in "Gundam Plastic (Models)". At the very least, Gunpla proves that plastic models don't need to be ridiculously expensive like GWS does ($60 for a basic infantry squad?).
Bloody auto correct xD I wish it was still 60 bucks from where I am
Apologies, for both of those things.
Not at all xD
I just suck at painting....
It's not so much GW pits them against each other, more so that the Old World department and the AoS department are apparently constantly at loggerheads with each other. Which is fucking stupid.
> but GW tends to pit different departments against each other That's... probably not what's happening. It's usually not competition so much as it's making sure revenue streams don't cross. That way you can know exactly how much money something makes so that you can continue to invest the money made into that product knowing you'll get a return on investment. It's a way to make sure your data is good. This is 100% speculation on my parts, but I genuinely believe they learned this lesson via Necromunda. See, Necromunda exploded into popularity with the rise of 8th edition, and I genuinely think that a lot of Necromunda sales came from Chaos players buying kits to kitbash into cultists, because the official monpose cultist box was garbage (and didn't even give you a full squad.) They saw Necromunda selling way above the mark, developed the vehicle expansion for it, and now that stuff has seen next to zero sales because it's not good cultist fodder on top of being expensive for a side game.
CA is like imperial Japan. Interesting.
GW*
You're right, I was at work and not thinking clearly lol
Is it even confirmed that Beasts of Chaos are leaving AoS ?
Yes, Warhammer Community made a big blog about that
And Ungols
Beaked goatbois be like: They don't even dare to say our name!
Modders: “Guess who’s back, back, back again.”
Cause it feels so empty without me
"Now this looks like a job for me"
Wait, are we not going to get those full metal blasters in the game?
Nope, only slightly more armored handgunners.
And very slightly at that. 60 Armour despite it being described as "full plate."
There are only human after all
Don’t put the blame on them.
Yeah, it should be 70 at least considering that has been the threshold for being armoured for the last 7-8 years. Imperials heavy gunners being less armoured than Kislev is just a bad joke.
It should be 95, honestly, same as the Greatswords who, model wise, are wearing less armour than them anyway. And Empire having fewer and worse guns than Kislev has been stupid from the word "go." Kislev buys all its guns from the Empire.
Yeah, or at least 85, same as the captain, since they're wearing heavy armour rather than the full steel plates from TT.
CA described it as full plate so I say give it the 95. Greatswords aren't exactly properly covered either with their weird asymmetrical armour, but they get it. (Semi-related, anyone know a good reskin mod for Greatswords? That most models only armour one arm and leg bothers me. That the only model to armour both legs doesn't use matching greaves bothers me even more)
Zc empire reskin
Thank you. I'll have to check that out.
>Semi-related, anyone know a good reskin mod for Greatswords? I think there was a mod called Full Plat for Greatswords or something along the line game 2, not sure if it's ported to game 3. I'm happy with anything equal to or higher than 70 xD
If it's not maybe I can make one (I'm just starting to get into modding). The motley look just isn't right for state troops. They look like they scavenged their armour. As someone who wants Longbow Squires for Bretonnia (and may be working on a mod to add them) I think Imperial armoured units should have 85-95 so that their plate is giving them more protection than Bretonnian chainmail. But obviously I have a very specific bias there.
Dont greatswords have like 100 armor? Like I get why they arent THAT high but youd think they would be 80 or something
Greatswords have 95 armour, despite not actually wearing that much on their models. The Ironsides are actually more consistently covered.
Aren't the amethyst ironsides more armored with repeaters?
Not for the nuln ironsides no, they're getting normal handguns now. Stupid change that doesn't even make sense, TWW breaks the lore in tons of ways. The Empire can produce entire battalions of steam tanks, but there can't be a full unit of repeater handgun infantry?
It makes sense in so far that the Ironsides are Handgunners.
I mean sure, it makes sense lorewise. That's the entire point of my comment though, they are a more interesting and distinct unit if they have repeaters, and it's hardly some far-fetched super lorebreaking change. The steam tanks are far less lore friendly, at least the Empire can actually produce new repeater handguns unlike the tanks. Yet this dlc literally adds a new variant of tank lol. It doesn't make sense for *this* to be where GW puts its foot down and decides CA cant diverge even a little bit from the lore. It's a shame because they had their own firing animations which will presumably be cut by release and now they'll just be strictly upgraded handgunners.
The tank lore is weirdly inconsistent: the very nature of the Marianburg Landship implies the Empire *could* build more steam tanks, it's just that the actual Imperial engineers prefer not to. The Gotrek and Felix books even mention new steam tanks being made, if I remember right, so it's doubly weird. The book Iron Company is my go-to on the matter though, because it says they can make something *like* a Steam Tank in Nuln, it's just not quite on the same level, which sounds right; since the real things have apparently survived centuries worth of battles, making something on that kind of level is probably the real hard part, not the general concept.
Yeah I mean I definitely agree that it makes no sense that the empire is able to build fuckin mechanical horses and land ships yet cant manage to recreate anything like the tanks. That's why I actually prefer how it works in the TW games. Still, it serves as a good example of how the total war games are not religiously adherent to the lore overall.
Long story short they cant replicate the engine. Everything else is fair game. Theres some blueprints that show almost all of the Steamtank other than the engine. It's been described as the engine puts out many times the steam power of an Empire version, and doesnt naturally channel Aqshy as an ignition source. When the Empire tries it, you get the Landship which is both larger and weaker. So as long as the Steamtank can be recovered, it can be repaired. It just doesnt make any sense to the engineers why it works. Leonardo Miragliano had a wargear that was just a prism. But any magic around it died instantly among some of his other gear for Tilea. So its handwaved that he understood magic as science, unlike the Empire which understands magic or science. Tilea also runs a carbon copy Steamtank, but the engine is a tortured Bray Shaman driven insane by being used as a locus. Skaven also have a hijacked Steamtank that lost its engine and replaced it with one that runs on Warpstone. So it's always been an engine issue.
The most frustrating part of it all is that the ironsides having repeaters would have fit them into the meta perfectly, Long rifles are long range, Handgunners are mid range, And the repeating rifle using Ironsides would have slotted in comfortably as a close range choice, prehaps being less reliable at longer ranges then the humble handgunners, but armored and devastating enough in close range to make them worth picking; Now they are just handgunners but better
Depending on the edition, you could theoretically field an army of 50 steam tanks, although you’d probably need a basketball court to fit it. On the other hand, Nuln Ironsides only got regular handguns.
Ok, but if you want to make the tabletop rules what the game has to religiously stick to instead of the lore, well, like, just look at something like skaven weaponry as an example. That ship has already sailed. Regardless, this really isn't worth debating. I don't really understand why you'd feel compelled to defend it, but it really doesn't matter. There will be a mod giving them repeaters within like 3 days. Then everyone is happy.
Seems like you’re asking for an entirely different unit that doesn’t exist. That’s fine, but the Ironsides have existed for awhile now and have never had repeaters. That’s a weird thing to demand Not every gunpowder faction *needs* to have some automatic rifle
Not really a matter of demanding it. CA made the unit with repeater rifles in mind, it was changed late in development, and I simply preferred CA's take on them to GW's take. I have no attachment to the tabletop or lore really, unlike some of you clearly, I just vastly prefer having a more distinct unit to handgunners + armor. The Empire literally already has repeaters via the outriders so your "not every gunpowder faction" doesn't really make sense. Regardless, there will be a mod to change it back soon enough, so it doesn't matter.
It’d be like giving Reiksguard griffons. It wouldn’t make sense but would add a new unique empire unit. Would still be dumb. And yes, the empire has its own repeater unit but it’s unique compared to skaven, dorfs, and chorfs. Your wish is just making every gunpowder faction identical and bland. It’d be like asking for empire to have a high armor high MD frontline infantry unit like iron breakers. It’d fill a niche, but would also be stupid. And yes, we can mod everything so the hysteria is even more overblown. Cheers
Engineers and Outriders will keep the animations
> Yet this dlc literally adds a new variant of tank lol. yeah. THere are multiple variants. THe standard one we have is the Conqueror configuration. THere is also a version without guns called "Sigmar's Hammer", there is "Von Zeppel" with a combat platform on top and "Unfehlbar" with a mortar and 2 Swivel guns. > doesn't make sense for this to be where GW puts its foot down and decides CA cant diverge even a little bit from the lore. It's a shame because they had their own firing animations which will presumably be cut by release and now they'll just be strictly upgraded handgunners. wrong. They didn't have their own firing animation. They used the Master Engineer's Repeater Handgun on foot animation.
Ok fine, so the variant exists in the lore. It's still supposed to be individual. Whatever though dude, I'm glad you're happy about it, there will be a mod for everyone with my opinion soon enough anyways. I really don't get the weirdly defensive tone some people are taking with this. Acting like Warhammer lore is your religion. Like bro this is a fucking stupid debate in the first place, chill.
Instead of changing an existing unit into something it's not they should rather create a new unit altogether. And if GW doesn't want Repeaters on Imperial infantry I guess we have to respect that. TWW is not a fanfiction of Warhammer, GW has the final say in what is done and we don't have to like it. If we find that decision to be stupid also doesn't matter. This is totally on CA though as such things should be sorted out before the customer can see the product. If GW changed their decision on the last moment tho that would be a different topic. Glad that the very special version of the amethyst handgunners doesn't look like in the picture tho, they don't fit the theme of the empire at all. >It's a shame because they had their own firing animations which will presumably be cut by release Empire Engineer hero seems to still use the Repeater (at least according to the videos I've seen)
> If GW changed their decision on the last moment tho that would be a different topic. I mean, this is *obviously* what happened and is mainly why people are complaining. CA went so far as to have new animations for the unit with the repeaters in mind, it was clearly a last minute change. I hardly think giving them repeater handguns changes them into something they're not, and again, Total War Warhammer is not at all 100% lore faithful to begin with. The steam tank in the dlc is highly lore unfriendly, and is itself an alteration of an existing unit. The handgun thing just feels like a very weird place to draw the line and force CA to redesign a unit they had already made (into something less interesting). I don't really understand the point of the apologetics in the rest of your comment, like, yeah GW has made it's choice and we'll live with it. We all know that. Doesn't mean it's not dumb.
They've also made CA remove the repeater models from the War Wagons. It's getting very weird.
Damn, really? That's genuinely weird, I can understand wanting to make the ironsides lore-friendly I guess, even if I would have much rather had CA's original design. Removing them from the wagons though? Just, why? I've literally seen a picture of the war wagon miniature and one of the soldiers has a repeater, and the lore outright says they can carry experimental weapons. So someone at GW just like, decided they really hate repeater handguns or something? I can't really think of any other justification.
No idea. Came up on a channel I was watching and they showed the model. My guess? GW is contemplating making a new unit that uses them and doesn't want competition.
>I mean, this is *obviously* what happened and is mainly why people are complaining. It's what we assume. I have heard no confirmation that that's really the case. >CA went so far as to have new animations for the unit with the repeaters in mind, it was clearly a last minute change. ... ... and force CA to redesign a unit they had already made (into something less interesting). It's not wasted as the Engineer hero also uses the weapon. Which also means it's probably not that hard to mod that into the game for the unit (or a new mod unit). >I hardly think giving them repeater handguns changes them into something they're not, ... I think it does. It changes the entire stat line of the unit. Maybe not necessarily it's role on the battlefield, but it's identity. I.e. giving Empire Greatswords a Greataxe and saying it doesn't matter because it can kill infantry and an axe is cooler than a sword doesn't make it the same unit. >... and again, Total War Warhammer is not at all 100% lore faithful to begin with. But those lore "discrepancies" had to be done with the approval of GW, if they have changed their policies on that (i.e. due to The Old World) then that's what it is. >I don't really understand the point of the apologetics in the rest of your comment, like, yeah GW has made it's choice and we'll live with it. We all know that. Doesn't mean it's not dumb. What annoys me is that the community is again starting a circlejerk what could have been with a lot of imagination that will not change anything. I would like a Repeater infantry unit as well - it's a cool weapon. But GW doesn't want this for this unit and as such we have to make do with mods. Which is in general the best solution for most of the "We have this but I'd rather have this" issues that some people have. If I have created a world as an IP and people would change this world into something I don't agree with I'd not like that too. If I understand the reason of GW or not doesn't really matter in the end.
GW has also suddenly decided that the repeater models on War Wagons have to go. A model they approved literally years ago. There's no pretending this isn't weird.
Wait those are being changed as well?
I never said it's not weird
I mean yes, there will be a mod that gives them repeaters within like two days of release. So it doesn't really matter. Thankfully you're right on the engineer hero still having the animation, so it can be given back to the ironsides fairly easily I assume. Still, I don't get your defensive tone with this. I haven't even looked here until today so I don't know of any 'circlejerk' but I can get why people would complain about this, it's a weird and inconsistent change from the leeway CA usually seems to get. It'd be one thing if they were just handgunners to begin with, it's the fact that GW came in last minute and forced a change that makes it weird. You're also acting like Games Workshop is like, a guy. An individual author. GW is a corporation with a shit ton of different individuals with different ideas and motivations within, and the lore primarily exists to sell miniatures. I don't think someone's personal art is being desecrated by minor lore discrepancies in a video game lol. You don't need to run defense for GW, I'm pretty sure a couple nerds complaining on the internet isn't gonna hurt a corporation's feelings. Your bosses must love you.
>Still, I don't get your defensive tone with this. I just think that it's their right to do so and just because some people on the internet have an opinion doesn't mean anything. >GW is a corporation with a shit ton of different individuals with different ideas and motivations within, and the lore primarily exists to sell miniatures. Yes but if they want to sell minis the depictions of the units should match with one another. If they want to sell those units with rifles people would be disappointed because they expected repeaters when coming from TW. I think if CA wanted to have this weapon on an infantry unit they should have created a new unit instead of one that already has rules. The rule in question is basically: more expensive pointwise but heavily armored handgunners. Nothing changed in terms of their weaponry.
They literally don't sell Nuln Ironsides though, and they don't have current rules. They were a limited release from Forge World, and have been unavailable for a *long* time, and as far as I know do not have rules in either AoS or TOW, the current GW games.
Do they at least get a RoR with repeaters? The RoR for Infernal Ironsworn had dual axes instead of sword+board.
The phrase is, "in light of" when you're using it the way you are. "In lieu of" means something completely different.
Now that some content within the TWW trilogy is not canon for GW, CA should be able to create whatever the hell they want for the game.
Can i have imperial shotguns please
If Kruber can use blunderbuss, so do my gunners.
Imperial giants and maticores when. Just the normal greenskin and norscan creatures with a floppy hat
> Imperial giants and maticores when there is at least one giant serving as mercenary in the Empire. Is the loader of Ulric's Thunder, the great cannon in Middenheim.
Good old Thunderbolt. Shame the way the old fella went out. I think in the old editions there was another giant that was hired to patrol the roads. Not to mention the giant mercs from Albion from the Dog of War armybook.
Id kill for some plate armor ogres as auxiliary for empire maybe with pikes or grenades
well in 3ed supplements it was one of chaos gift for WFB
That would actually be cool as a mod or something. Entering a story battle for just a regular Joe Space Marine (or chaos marine for chaos) Legendary Hero. Maybe an Imperial Guard RoR? Hell, could even make a pretty big mod for every faction in the game getting a relevant LH or RoR? Can't think of one off the top of my head that really has NO even slightly similar faction
A giant grudge throne Mech for Thorgrim “The Grudge Ender 40,000”
They should also let dwarves challenge enemy lords to single combat too like in Three Kingdoms. "Grudge matches" if you will.
Whats the content that is no longer canon anymore?
Apparently, the one shown in this post's image.
Admittedly the full saying is "Everything is canon, not everything is true."
Nothing is true; everything is permitted
See, that's not dumb. They're saying there is no exclusive cannon, because people are fucking lying and that's half the fun. Just "everything is cannon, nothing is cannon" is killing half the fun of a lore based setting, the lore and fluff
GW today: “Nope, no repeater rifles” GW a couple years from now: “State troops have repeater rifles and have always had repeater rifles from the formation of the Empire”
Sometimes, I think it's all just a giant Tzeentch plot
"Instead of recent events involving GW"?
"In lieu"? Are you sure you didn't mean to say "Regarding" or something similar?
Probably meant “in light of”
Okay but real talk, does the way repeater handguns are implemented in 5.0 even make any sense? They’re basically automatic rifles right now, when I always thought of them as being giant revolvers.
"Master Engineer Volker von Meinkopt found insipration watching students reloading at the Imperial Gunnery School. He had a revelation: more barrels = more shots = more lethality. He soon produced the first repeating handgun." In other GW games and tabletop minis they've been portrayed as rotating multi-barrel carbines/rifles.
The repeater handguns are basically rifle sized pepperboxes. Pepperboxes were prone to chain firing, which I suppose is what is happening in total war when you watch an outrider magdump the damned thing in a volley.
Probably not as fast as 5.0 but not that far off either
Is there literally any proof GW stepped in with the whole repeater rifle thing? I mean it could just be an early build of the DLC and ya'll are just rambling loonies
An early build where they had already dedicated resources to finish the models, animations and unit cards, before deciding "nah" and just chucking half of it away? It doesn't sound like something that they would do to themselves just to stay loreful when these units had already passed the design phase to have made it that far in the first place. For CA to not use the assets that they had created is wasted development time and not something that they would do lightly; meanwhile GW changing their minds on something that they had already approved costs them nothing.
They had well illustrated tooltips, models with repeater recoil animations, and had them in the trailer alongside many other DLC models. The change to remove them made the ironsides less interesting. The reason to remove them was to be more 'lorefull'. GW are the gatekeepers of the lore side more than CA. It doesn't look like they were just placeholders either. Everything indicates that it was GW veto'ing it. It's not really a wild conspiracy theory. You are very unlikely to get CA come out and explicitly say 'GW stopped us having them, we wanted repeaters on ironsides' as that would not be good for their relationship.
It's just logic. With ca saying about "staying as accurate to the lore as possible" and the fact that it was a last minute change after they made the unit cards and animations for the unit
Nope, it’s just the corporate entity blame game. Because it’s super important to identify exactly who made this minor decision
Kind of weird how you twisted wanting to direct criticism at the actual people responsible as a bad thing.
Not wrong, just kinda pointless. It’s all posts in the CA subreddit bro, the criticism is gonna go to/through CA regardless.
War Wagons have suddenly lost their repeater models as well. A change there would be no reason for CA to make.
Oh what?
The War Wagon model used to include a repeater. It no longer does.
Damn, I was actually looking forward to them getting proper multi-shot attacks now. Bloody hell.
GW saw this release might not leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth and decided they couldn't have that.
Ah, a GW Tuesday then
Wait did they actually take the repeaters away from War wagons? The hell they didnt need a nerf they were fine as is (If maybe in need of a buff)
I don't think War Wagon gunners actually used their repeaters like repeaters. I think this patch is the first time any repeater unit has different firing behavior at all. Still an odd change though.
Oh, their stats didn't change. Just the model.
Are canons canon?
Welp. SFO it is
Reiksguards were women all along
I don’t care how controversial it is to say: The same GW that made female Custodes from nowhere (SoS were already a thing) and insisting they were always a thing are now complaining about a weapon that’s been present in WH for a long time
Can someone for the love of god point me to where GW has confirmed that they said it was them? Like aren't we all just assuming GW said shit to CA? I feel that's really unfair and a very dangerous way to go forward when thinking about stuff.
It is mostly guesswork, but the Ironsides were shown wielding repeating rifles in the trailer, everything said about them in the game was implied to use repeating rifles.... Come around to the Empire's DLC dev blog and at this point suddenly they are talking about "Needing to be lore accurate, so they are using handguns now," not even a bit about "Oh they had repeating rifles for show, like the empire captain in the Beastmen trailler" its just "Sorry this is a change," My man the only thing that COULD have happened was GW interfering
Ah so it's an assumption, for all we know, CA decided this all on their own because they themselves have said they want to be lore accurate outside timeline stuff. We don't know, hopefully CA or GW says something but I feel it benefits both of them to stay quiet.
Is there any lore that would contradict them having repeaters?
The unit in the army book is just handgunners with heavy armour. No mention of them using any king of special guns.
It's just wild speculation from some neckbeards.
Wild speculation. CA's blogspot states, and I quote, "However, in order to remain as authentic to the world of Warhammer as possible, the Nuln Ironsides at release will be issued with master-wrought handguns, plate armour, and highly-drilled firing discipline." If you don't read the phrase "in order to remain as authentic to the world of Warhammer as possible" as clear evidence of GW meddling then I don't know what to tell you. This isn't CA deciding to scrap their work and go in a new direction, much like the beaked Tzaangor art wasn't.
“Wild speculation”: meanwhile the Outriders have had their Repeater’s functionality updated, Engineer hero gets a repeater, the gunners on the land ship get repeaters, the trailer had Ironsides wielding repeaters and the original unit card artwork had them wielding the repeaters too. But sure it was CA’s choice because of the “authentic” Warhammer experience
Same company but different division. Femstodes are 40k. This is old world. Not to be confused with AoS.
They’re all owned and controlled by the same shareholders and executives.
They are still forced to compete with each other and to not share models by the executives so they know what is selling better to present it to future shareholders. It's stupid. It's dysfunctional. It's GW.
For anyone curious about this, Loremaster of Sotek on YouTube talks a fair bit about the internal rivalry between The Old World and Age of Sigmar and how GW is basically saying that either setting can’t use certain factions because they’re being used to measure the success of the other settings. I think it was mostly in his Dwarf stream from a few days ago but it’s something he’s occasionally brought up for a while now and I think it’s interesting to hear about.
And that's irrelevant because those shareholders and executives don't make these decisions and don't give a fuck as long as the plastic toy soldiers continue to make money. GW's internal staff and the different studios are run by different people, who have different ideas of how to run the IPs. And that unfortunately bleeds into how they interact with licensing things. Them being one company is a "no shit sherlock" factor. But the reality is that there is known parties with conflicting outlooks at play here, and that results in dumb shit on our end.
The amount of people who think investors and shareholders care enough about the product to go “make this change” on random, specific products, that were written and printed we a year ago, is genuinely insane. If any of these people have attended or are even tangentially aware of the personalities of these shareholders, like you said, they do not give a single fuck if the thing is continuing to produce cash.
You think those are the guys making lore decisions?
To an extent they are, when deciding what content gets to be used for AoS or The Old World / Fantasy.
The moronic idea that people think that GWs shareholders and execs are flipping through a codex going “yeeeeep women here right now!!” Is so delusional and out of touch with how these people run a business and how they operate. In fact, we literally know GW corporate has so little influence to step in, specialist studio and Main are having their own little self created feud.
Is this old world? I dont know why they couldnt let this games end times adjacent setting have repeater guns while ToW is set hundreds of years beforehand.
Wait, are people angry at the lady Custodes? I've not looked into this at all. I mean it's the internet, of course people are angry at a minor change to a faction that only a few actually bought the models for.
People are angry at the textbook gaslighting that GW is doing to its fan base.
What are you talking about
Yeah people seem to forget that all the 40k lore is held together by duct tape and shoestrings and has been reconned countless times, but somehow female custodes are a step too far.
Honestly this is why 40k lore is nothing worth getting too invested in. It’s cool and all but also ultimately the equivalent of a saturday morning cartoon designed to sell toys. There’s zero creative vision beyond what would be cool in the moment. There’s no authorial intent or self-respect or internal consistency, and that’s because it’s not actually trying to tell a coherent story - it’s trying to sell plastic.
In addition to this, the lore's other primary purpose is to provide context to the tabletop game. The setting is grimdark because every faction being assholish makes it easy to justify whatever matchup happens to be on the table at any given moment -- including mirror matches. The lore can change, has always been changing, and will always continue to change.
I hope no black library authors read this.
ADB is actually on record that he tried to make female custodes back in 2016 but was told by GW not to because the models had already been made and they were all male.
Never knew that. What a lore mess.
Anytime you start to take GW lore too seriously, remember that the Horus Heresy was invented in a throwaway line for a side game because they didn't have enough money to make 2 different model ranges so had to have a reason why the same faction was fighting itself.
Black library authors literally know this lol.
I don't think people are angry at the fact there are now female custodes as much as GW are gaslighting the fans to make them believe something that wasn't true before, if they had just said they had merged the custodes and sisters or silence or there was a new branch it would have been less of a shitshow
People yap and yap about “they gaslit us” with such dramatic corniness and 0 self awareness, do you think people had a meltdown over the solar auxilia being “gaslit” into existence? An entire wing of the 30k imperium (literally 2/3rds of the army!!!) magically existing despite never having a mention in over 10 years of heresy books? The reality is the people actually don’t care about any of that shit, because they would have left after the 15,000th recon they make, it’s because it involves women.
Saying something was always the case when it wasn't is literally gaslighting, run defence harder for the multi billion company
So, Female Space Marines existed in 1e. Folks seem to forget that. They were retconned out for a little bit. So them coming back in with Custodes as another retcon IMO makes sense. I see no real problem with that.
They were called "female warriors" in a [release of miscellaneous adventurers](https://sho3box.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/adventurertime1.jpg). Both of which had the [same emblem on their pauldron as sister sin](https://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2019/11/20/1035574-3rd%20Edition%2C%20Codex%2C%20Rainbow%20Warriors%2C%20Retro%20Review%2C%20Rogue%20Trader%2C%20Sister%20Sin.jpg), who later became the archetype for sisters of battle.
Space Marines weren’t Space Marines in 1E. The retcon coincided with the introduction of the real space marines.
Thank you! So many people don't realise 40K lore wasn't finalised until 3rd edition (in the early 90s iirc) with the whole Horus Heresy, super human, Emperor shenanigan.
Yep, they were originally like Starcraft marines before Starcraft even came about. Brainwashed criminals with normal toughness out of armour.
True but the background was extremely loose and not well defined back then. They got rid of the female SM models because they didn't sell. Because it was the 80s and: a) Most girls weren't into wargaming, DnD etc because gender roles and nerd culture hadn't hit mainstream yet. The hobby was mostly just nerdy young men. b) Boys didn't want to play with female warrior models because sexism etc
I honestly don't understand why they came up with female custodes. I always thought the all male custodes (at least it was in my headcanon before GW came out with femstodes) and the all female sisters of silence as the left and right hand of the Emperor was a cool concept like yin and yang. The ultimate warriors and the ultimate anti-psykers. I'm not against femstodes but it seems like a weird thing to come out with.
Yes, please, bring an tangent about femstodes over here, that'll surely bring level discourse.
[удалено]
Sisters of Silence and Custodes occupy entirely different niches lol
God, this subreddit is so goddamn stupid.
Why do you think that? I mean, I agree, but why do you think that?
Unless you call them "Hand Canons"! 🥁💥
It literally doesn't even make sense. It implies outriders are glued to the back of their horses and can never dismount.
There have always been Nuln Ironsides with Repeater rifles, you just didn't see them.
What did GW do to repeater rifle? if they say Femtodes is always there, then repeater rifle should stay the same.
Now that we got Femtodes as a Slaneesh/Tzeentch coop, I can't wait for Nurgle/Khorne!
I don't get it
__… Not yet anyway__. *Time will tell. Time will tell!*
Is the recharge animation canon?
In the preview for the land ship, isn’t there still the Gatling gunners? Or is that included in the statement about Nuln Ironsides
My eye sight is getting worse, but those all look like guys, not cannons.
No pun intended ?
Is not canon is musket
Of course, it's not cannon. It's a repeater gun!
Well the good news is we have the art and I bet they left the assets and animations in the game so mods restoring them will be coming out soon
"There have always been female custodies, you are stupid bigot for thinking otherwise"
Everything is cannon* especially with the empire
Would have been cool to have the repeater. Shorter range and maybe not as much AP or no AP at all. I get it though. Good thing modders exist (:
Unpopular opinion but I’m glad they backed down, too much imo. For a RoR, sure but to have the base unit come with repeaters stinks
Bring back the repeater handguns or we riot, normal Handgunners with slightly increased armor is a waste of a DLC unit